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BATSKY87
03-01-2012, 11:21 AM
DUNEDIN, Fla. -- Blue Jays manager John Farrell announced Wednesday that Adeiny Hechavarria will practice at second base this week and play in games throughout Spring Training in preparation for a possible promotion to the Major Leagues this season.

"That doesn't mean we're looking to move him, but in the event that we need some flexibility, he's our premier defender in the Minor Leagues, so we're going to get him some reps at second base," Farrell said. "But we still view him as a long-term and an elite type of shortstop."

Farrell said the organization would promote Hechavarria during the regular season if a middle infielder is placed on the disabled list. Hechavarria is the No. 16 prospect in the Blue Jays' system.
Farrell was able to get a close-up view of the highly regarded prospect while tossing batting practice a couple days ago.

"The one thing you see right now, he just looks stronger," Farrell said. "Throwing batting practice the other day, you get that rare vision of him from the mound. This year, there's a little bit more authority with the swing than a year ago. Even meeting with him today -- we did his one-on-one meeting with him today -- he talked about the difference [between] his offseason this year compared to last season leading up to Spring Training."

Hechavarria has steadily climbed the ladder in the Minor Leagues the last two years, compiling a .248 batting average in 172 games with Double-A New Hampshire from 2010-11 and a .389 batting average in 25 games with Triple-A Las Vegas in 2011.

"He was receptive to it, but he's got work to do there," said Farrell, who was told by Hechavarria that he was 15 the last time he played the position. "That's why he'll get some reps there throughout Spring Training and in games."

Farrell said having 23-year veteran Omar Vizquel in camp has been beneficial to Hechavarria's learning curve this spring.

"Not just his skill set, but his experience level was one of the things we talked about before bringing him in," Farrell said of Vizquel. "He's willing and wanting to impart his experience. There's a lot of conversation going on, not just with Yunel [Escobar] and [Hechavarria], but with everyone in camp."

Farrell also said Hechavarria would be cleared to play with the big league club when the time comes, after finding out from Hechavarria about a month ago that the 22-year-old Cuban defector had received proper documentation. The Blue Jays attempted to bring Hechavarria to the team's rookie program in January, but he was still prohibited.

The team will confirm Hechavarria's status over the next week.

What are your thoughts about the Jays using Hech as a 2B? What does this mean for Kelly Johnson?

lexecutioner
03-01-2012, 11:48 AM
thats been talked alot here before and i agree with trying Hech at 2nd.
We have a good under control for a long time Shortstop in Yunel so Hech i think is blocked at SS (unless one is traded) But i like Yunel's progress since coming here and the structure of his contract is club friendly that it is wise to use him as our SS for years to come.

besides i dont think we have any legit 2nd base Prospect on the radar so might aswell try this one out.

Sanyo
03-01-2012, 11:58 AM
Personally I think Hech would fare better at SS to cover more gaps, but Yunel is the vet so I guess you throw Hech at 2b...I guess if he comes through, this will likely be the last year for KJ.

JermanJaysFan
03-01-2012, 12:09 PM
I think if Hech makes it as an everyday major leaguer, co-existing in an infield with Yunel, Yunel should be the guy moving to 2B. I understand that SS is Yunel's position for now and Hech can take 2B if he comes up as a call-up this year, but if this is going to be a long term pairing, it should probably be with Hech at SS.

That said- I still feel that (again, if Hech's bat improves enough to make him a serviceable everyday middle infielder) there is more value in trading one of Hech/Yunel than keeping both.

Farsight
03-01-2012, 12:31 PM
We all know that Hech can field 2nd base (and really well at that), the only issue will be his value offensively. If he was struggling to be an average SS offensively, than his offense at second base will be a huge negative. It would probably be better to move Yunel to 2nd base, however, you do ruin a lot of his value

JMac4PM
03-01-2012, 12:49 PM
They're just making Hech mor flexible.... if his bat doesn't improve this year than its quite possible Hech is gonna make his living as a Jmac/Mccoy back up infielder type. If that is the case he is gonna have to learn how to play 3B and 2B.

Bombtista
03-01-2012, 01:00 PM
Why are we willing to replace Kelly with Hech next season already? I never realized this until today but both Johnson and Escobar played a few years together in Atlanta resulting in both players having career years there.

I think it will be a good season for both guys forcing the hand of AA into handing out a contract to Kelly for a few more years.

At this point Hech would be a serious decline over Johnson

Raps08-09 Champ
03-01-2012, 01:09 PM
Would it be more efficient to move Yunel to 2B?

darth helmet
03-01-2012, 01:29 PM
I can get on board with this. If Johnston gets hurt I'd rather see Hech get some major league experience filling in than have to watch McCoy try to fill that void. I don't think it hurts anything to have him get comfortable with the position and add some versatility to his resume. It's not like doing this means the Jays are committing to him as their full time second baseman for years and years to come.

iscream
03-01-2012, 01:44 PM
I remember AA mentioned Hech's true value is at SS on Fan 590. I really hope he can continue to improve upon his offense then we'll have a good problem to worry about; otherwise, we'll end up with a super utility guy.

AA09-?
03-01-2012, 02:37 PM
In case of injury, he needs to have some experience if needed at either 2B or 3B.

craigerlee
03-01-2012, 03:32 PM
I wouldn't mind us locking up Kelly Johnson for a couple years and trading Hech.

BlueJayFanDan
03-01-2012, 03:38 PM
What we really should do is trade Hech in a package for a young stud 2nd baseman. I don't see Hech as a long term solution anywhere on the field with his bat. He could be amazing on defense, but we need another bat in our lineup.

AA09-?
03-01-2012, 03:39 PM
I wouldn't mind us locking up Kelly Johnson for a couple years and trading Hech.

I think KJ will want a minimum of 4 years.

AA09-?
03-01-2012, 03:40 PM
what we really should do is trade hech in a package for a young stud 2nd baseman. I don't see hech as a long term solution anywhere on the field with his bat. He could be amazing on defense, but we need another bat in our lineup.

+1

wagnall
03-01-2012, 04:12 PM
I'm assuming they are just testing him there to see if he has anything to offer at 2nd. It is the last year of his "contract" and is he not a FA next year? Better to see if he has anything to give us before we trade him or he walks.

If I'm wrong on this as he becoming a FA at the end of this year please correct me!!! :):)

craigerlee
03-01-2012, 04:12 PM
I think KJ will want a minimum of 4 years.

He would need to have a really good season to get 4 years, and I hope AA is working on an extension as we speak. Considering he was a modified type A and he had to accept arb doesn't seem like he's got a lot of suiters out there. I don't think a 2-3 year deal with a club option right now is out of the question.

WpgJayFan
03-01-2012, 05:41 PM
I thought one of Hechavarria or Escobar should move to second.

Now if Hech can hit the Jays could have a middle infield for a few years that will be amazing to see

craigerlee
03-01-2012, 06:40 PM
I thought one of Hechavarria or Escobar should move to second.

Now if Hech can hit the Jays could have a middle infield for a few years that will be amazing to see

I think you could say the same about John Mcdonald. Unfortunately hitting is sort of a prerequisite of a position player.

JermanJaysFan
03-01-2012, 08:53 PM
I think you could say the same about John Mcdonald. Unfortunately hitting is sort of a prerequisite of a position player.
Except that there is more reason to believe that a raw 22 year old might develop into a passable big league hitter than there is to hope a mid-30s vet will.

craigerlee
03-01-2012, 09:35 PM
Except that there is more reason to believe that a raw 22 year old might develop into a passable big league hitter than there is to hope a mid-30s vet will.

I was pointing out hitting is a prerequisite for any position player and its usually the difference between a SS that rides pine and SS that plays everyday. Yes he's young but his minor league numbers ignoring 25 games in AAA are worst than the numbers John Mcdonald put up a SS in the minors at the same age.

ah nuts
03-02-2012, 01:37 AM
[QUOTE=craigerlee]I was pointing out hitting is a prerequisite for any position player and its usually the difference between a SS that rides pine and SS that plays everyday. Yes he's young but his minor league numbers ignoring 25 games in AAA are worst than the numbers John Mcdonald put up a SS in the minors at the same age.[/QU'sOTE]

did mcdonald grow up and defect from Cuba as well?...
seriously man, give Hech one more year in the US before the Macdonald comparisons.

What bugs me, people talk Goss up, but he currently has a crap bat as well.
What's the difference?! I mean they say Hech now could be the best Defensive SS in MLB...

craigerlee
03-02-2012, 02:01 AM
[QUOTE=craigerlee]I was pointing out hitting is a prerequisite for any position player and its usually the difference between a SS that rides pine and SS that plays everyday. Yes he's young but his minor league numbers ignoring 25 games in AAA are worst than the numbers John Mcdonald put up a SS in the minors at the same age.[/QU'sOTE]

did mcdonald grow up and defect from Cuba as well?...
seriously man, give Hech one more year in the US before the Macdonald comparisons.

What bugs me, people talk Goss up, but he currently has a crap bat as well.
What's the difference?! I mean they say Hech now could be the best Defensive SS in MLB...

Hech as a 22 year old just put up a .235/.275/.347 slash line in AA
Gose as a 20 year old just put up a .253/.349/.415 slash line in AA

Oh ya and Gose also stole 70 bases at a 82% clip compared to Hech who stole 19 bases at a 59% clip.

I'd say there's a huge difference between them if you compare them offensively and considering they both play gold glove D Hech's D doesn't close the gap.

2009mvp
03-02-2012, 02:02 AM
Gose has a bit of power, Gose walks quite a bit. Hech does, well, nothing. As far as the defense I'm sure it'll be plus, but I've yet to read anything that says he's even a better defender than Iglesias let alone best in baseball.

Farsight
03-02-2012, 02:11 AM
[QUOTE=craigerlee]I was pointing out hitting is a prerequisite for any position player and its usually the difference between a SS that rides pine and SS that plays everyday. Yes he's young but his minor league numbers ignoring 25 games in AAA are worst than the numbers John Mcdonald put up a SS in the minors at the same age.[/QU'sOTE]

did mcdonald grow up and defect from Cuba as well?...
seriously man, give Hech one more year in the US before the Macdonald comparisons.

What bugs me, people talk Goss up, but he currently has a crap bat as well.
What's the difference?! I mean they say Hech now could be the best Defensive SS in MLB... Gose has shown the ability to get on base, has good power, pretty decent eye, and has shown the tools to improve offensively. The biggest knock on Gose is his ability to make contact, and that is fair. But Hechavarria has never shown the ability to get on base, hit for average, hit for power (or average power), and has a below average eye.

Gose has tapped much more into his offensive capabilities than Hechavarria has ever. Expecting a career minor league OPS of 650 to suddenly become an average hitter, especially at the big leagues does not happen a lot. Alcides Escobar (who is probably the most comparable player to hechavarria i can think of) had a minor league OPS of 750, and now post a 630 OPS in the majors. So im not looking forward to Hechavarria offensive production at the majors if he continues on this path

Halladay
03-02-2012, 03:08 AM
I don't get it. Hech is really only valuable playing SS because he's a defensive player and does little with the bat. His value is maxed out playing a premium position like SS.

AA09-?
03-02-2012, 07:52 AM
I don't get it. Hech is really only valuable playing SS because he's a defensive player and does little with the bat. His value is maxed out playing a premium position like SS.

So what are you confused about? Him playing 2B?

Valleyfella
03-02-2012, 08:48 AM
Hech at 2b is a good idea. You don't start messing with Yunel's head by moving him there. He's doing a great job at SS both defensively and offensively. Let's not rock that boat. As for Hech, he can't hit, but he's only 22 and should improve. He'd also be an excellent backup for Yunel at short. I say we see what he does this year before branding him an offensive dud. He's got raw talent and you never know when everything might fall into place for him.

ah nuts
03-02-2012, 11:28 AM
[QUOTE=ah nuts;21169129]

Hech as a 22 year old just put up a .235/.275/.347 slash line in AA
Gose as a 20 year old just put up a .253/.349/.415 slash line in AA

.

sorry, for a development stage, i fail to see a huge difference or advantage in batting.

And again, you conveniently leave out Hech's disadvantages of escaping from a country, language, and culture shock.

I don't know why, but I have more faith in hech's bat then goss's...(not by much)

craigerlee
03-02-2012, 11:56 AM
sorry, for a development stage, i fail to see a huge difference or advantage in batting.

142 points of OPS is a huge difference.


And again, you conveniently leave out Hech's disadvantages of escaping from a country, language, and culture shock.

I don't know why, but I have more faith in hech's bat then goss's...(not by much)

Well I'd consider it if I thought swinging a bat and speaking english were highly correlated, however they're not. Look no further to Yunel Escobar's minor league numbers where he put up a .297/.370/.414 slash line without being able to speak a lick of english most likely and experiencing culture shock. You can find hundreds of minor league hitters from the caribbean who've had success hitting despite the culture shock and the language.

If we were talking about a pitcher I would definitely consider culture shock and language, cause communicating with your catcher is very important. However hitting is a skill you either have or don't have when you come over here, and its pretty clear Hech doesn't have this skill.

ah nuts
03-03-2012, 01:29 AM
142 points of OPS is a huge difference.



Well I'd consider it if I thought swinging a bat and speaking english were highly correlated, however they're not. Look no further to Yunel Escobar's minor league numbers where he put up a .297/.370/.414 slash line without being able to speak a lick of english most likely and experiencing culture shock. You can find hundreds of minor league hitters from the caribbean who've had success hitting despite the culture shock and the language.
.

so again you demiss the fact hech performed better at AA under a coach that spoke his language than at single A where the skill level is lower.

And we all should know different prospects come at different stages of their development. We all were told from the get go, hechs batting skills were very raw. I guess Escobar could have arrived with a well developed batting skill.

I won't bore all by getting deep into how a prospects' switch can flick at different levels - that's a prospect. But all I'm saying is, it's one year too early to judge Hech IMO for I believe he is still is in that lost zone, transforming from raw - to - what he will be.

Halladay
03-03-2012, 01:38 AM
So what are you confused about? Him playing 2B?

huh? I thought I was pretty clear.

Hech playing SS=more value

Hech playing 2B=less value

AA09-?
03-03-2012, 09:26 AM
huh? I thought I was pretty clear.

Hech playing SS=more value

Hech playing 2B=less value

It said in the article it was done for positional depth. In case of injury, it's important that he has experience at both middle infield positions.

craigerlee
03-03-2012, 12:24 PM
so again you demiss the fact hech performed better at AA under a coach that spoke his language than at single A where the skill level is lower.
Well it was a 40 game sample size in A ball in which he hit .193/.217/.292 where he had a BABIP of .222. I would expect anyone to improve from that, heck if a pitcher in A ball posted that I'd expect him to improve in AA. I think your drawing a conclusion that isn't necessarily there, that he improved on probably the worst possible batting line you could put up just cause the coach spoke his language.

I won't bore all by getting deep into how a prospects' switch can flick at different levels - that's a prospect. But all I'm saying is, it's one year too early to judge Hech IMO for I believe he is still is in that lost zone, transforming from raw - to - what he will be.
Well he better find himself quick cause he's gotta be on the 25 man roster come next year or else he has to clear waivers. I think you can understand why I'm skeptical cause he has one season to show he can hit or else he's riding pine in the big leagues or claimed by another team. Seeing as he just posted .235/.275/.347 line in AA in 111 games I'm extremely skeptical of whether this kid will figure it out in time or ever figure it out.

wamco
03-03-2012, 01:13 PM
"in a year or two" he would have made 10M dollars.

JaysFan87
03-03-2012, 04:05 PM
"in a year or two" he would have made 10M dollars.

reflects more on the inequality in the drafting of players and the signing of international FA. Something that is likely going to get fixed with an international draft.

ah nuts
03-03-2012, 09:44 PM
Well it was a 40 game sample size in A ball in which he hit .193/.217/.292 where he had a BABIP of .222. I would expect anyone to improve from that, heck if a pitcher in A ball posted that I'd expect him to improve in AA. .

what... just like Adam Dunn improved on his poor batting line as the year went on.

BTW, I got the coaching thing from a few different sport writers. And seriously, if you can't see it "possible" for a guy landing in a foreign country alone and really can't speak the language not effecting performance and development... i can't stop rolling my eyes.

I'm not trying to prove your opinion wrong just to show you other possibilities. If a closed mind is what all I get in discussion, I'm really not interested in wasting my time.

craigerlee
03-04-2012, 11:50 AM
what... just like Adam Dunn improved on his poor batting line as the year went on.
Adam Dunn is hardly relevant cause he ripped up the minor leagues, were talking about a guy that's failing at a level that's much much worst then the major leagues.

Sure Hech has talent, but the problem is he might need a lot more time to develop it, and he doesn't have that time cause he needs to be on the 25 man by next year or else he's pretty much worthless to us.

Why doesn't the fact he can't speak english well not affect his glove either? Why is it only his bat?


BTW, I got the coaching thing from a few different sport writers. And seriously, if you can't see it "possible" for a guy landing in a foreign country alone and really can't speak the language not effecting performance and development... i can't stop rolling my eyes.
Did these sports writers do a study that found a correlation between international players succeeding and having coaches that speak Spanish? Or did they just state an opinion and bring up one example of a guy that failed who had a coach that couldn't speak Spanish?

Because a couple sports writers give an opinion doesn't mean its right. Heck I could say Michael Young was the best player in the league last year and I could cite Evan P Grant of the Dallas Morning News as proof. Does that mean I'm right?

I'm not trying to prove your opinion wrong just to show you other possibilities. If a closed mind is what all I get in discussion, I'm really not interested in wasting my time.
Say I open up my mind and believe all his failure to this point is because he can't speak english very well. Do you really believe that everything is going to click in an instant? Hech's bat is so far from major league ready right now that I can't possibly believe that it will be ready by next year. That's a huge problem cause the major point I've been stressing and you've chosen to ignore or not respond to is that he has to be major league ready by next year or else he's a bench player or on another team.

wamco
03-04-2012, 04:46 PM
he can't hit. it's really not that complicated. If he weren't a jay, you'd agree.

ah nuts
03-04-2012, 07:37 PM
Did these sports writers do a study that found a correlation between international players succeeding and having coaches that speak Spanish? .

what the hell are you getting on with!? pure foolishness!
Are you trolling me with such nonsense!?

prospects are studied and treated by an individual by individual basis. And they say baseball is 90% mental... something like that. It's not a big stretch to believe a 20 year old landing in a country..... forget it, I'm not wasting anymore of my time with this guy.

Again, to the rest of you, all I'm saying give the guy another year before proclaiming his bat useless.