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DaVille
02-29-2012, 03:36 AM
Timmy usually gets mentioned top5 all time. But he has a great case for GOAT ever. 2MVPs, 4Championships, 13all star appearances, 3finals MVP, 9time first team, 8time defensive first team. Any player with those accolades deserves to be in GOAT discussion. And main reason he is not because he plays for small market. He doesn't receive the same attention as big market players. Imagine Tim Duncan the player playing for the knicks and all the media hype there.

Nonetheless, Tim Duncan supreme basketball player has put a franchise, and a small market city on the map. Duncan has single-handedly made the Spurs a powerhouse. Quite assassin without the flair. Tim Duncan was vital reshaping NBA image from thuggery that was late 90s-early 2000s to what it is. He was the anti-Latrell Sprewell, anti-Allen Iverson. A clean-cut superstar, an unstoppable force as basketball player.

The big fundamental is not just GOAT power forward, he is GOAT ever.

KB-Pau-DH2012
02-29-2012, 03:39 AM
Let's just say that Mt. Rushmore would consist of Magic, Bird, MJ, Kareem.


If there was a version 2.0, I'd put Shaq, Kobe, Duncan and Hakeem.


I'll miss the day when The Big Fundamental retires.

Chronz
02-29-2012, 03:44 AM
I like where your going with this.

Make a case for him being better than KAJ because Ive seen different people argue on him being superior to Shaq/Hakeem/Wilt at some point but Ive literally never seen anyone argue for him above KAJ.

DaVille
02-29-2012, 03:48 AM
Let's just say that Mt. Rushmore would consist of Magic, Bird, MJ, Kareem.


If there was a version 2.0, I'd put Shaq, Kobe, Duncan and Hakeem.


I'll miss the day when The Big Fundamental retires.


My Mount Rushmore would be Kareem, Duncan, Jordan, Russell


We all will miss Tim Duncan when he decides to retire.

NBA won't be the same without him.

naps
02-29-2012, 03:54 AM
Duncan isn't the GOAT by any means but I agree that if he had that resume as a Knick he would be considered a top 3/4 player ever hands down or top 5 as a Laker/Bull. He won 4 championships as the MAN, has 3 finals MVPS, 2 League MVPs, and is probably the most dynamic two-way big ever along with Hakeem. Not to mention he's probably the only superstar in the history who formed a dynasty in a small market.

Cfrey
02-29-2012, 03:58 AM
no

KB-Pau-DH2012
02-29-2012, 03:59 AM
My Mount Rushmore would be Kareem, Duncan, Jordan, Russell


We all will miss Tim Duncan when he decides to retire.

NBA won't be the same without him.

At the end of the day, I'll miss that piece of **** in your avatar when he retires. :(

Raph12
02-29-2012, 04:03 AM
Top 5-8

DaVille
02-29-2012, 04:08 AM
At the end of the day, I'll miss that piece of **** in your avatar when he retires. :(

what i want to know is: Which quarter will Ron Artest Knockout Dwyane "The Punk" Wade on Sunday? Don't mess with NBA royalty.

looka09
02-29-2012, 04:16 AM
No.

psperry34116
02-29-2012, 04:26 AM
Duncan is one of the all time greats. Consummate teammate, great scorer, dominant defensive player, superbly clutch and tied with KG for the best all around game of any PF (Duncan's superior low post game is evened out by KG's jumpshooting and athleticism). He ranks in my top 10, probably not my top 5 and definitely not as the GOAT. I would undoubtedly take MJ, Magic, Kareem, Russell and Bird over him. I would rank Duncan ahead of every other player of this era and every player not previously mention.
All-time
1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Magic
5. Bird
6. Duncan
7. Wilt
8. Kobe
9. West
10. Hakeem

2000-2009
1. Duncan
2. Kobe
3. LeBron
4. Shaq
5. KG
6. Nash
7. Dirk
8. Kidd
9. CP3
10. Pierce

TRF929
02-29-2012, 04:30 AM
I love the effort, especially since I live in San Antonio but I'm going to have to say no, atleast for the GOAT ever. Power forward is the better case, but it's just hard when comparing against the legends, it's just a different game now. IMO top 8 is perfect. I also think the small market Spurs was the perfect team for him as the city fits his humble personality, but I could be bias.

Hellcrooner
02-29-2012, 04:30 AM
He is these things:

1 the best PF ever.

2 The best player of the 00s Decade.

3 a Top 10-15 player all time.

That said, Much as he is my favourite player of the 00s top 5 is too much, and nope he is not in the first line of Goat contenders with the Magics, Jordans, Wilts, Kareems, Robertsons, Birds......

Hellcrooner
02-29-2012, 04:34 AM
Duncan isn't the GOAT by any means but I agree that if he had that resume as a Knick he would be considered a top 3/4 player ever hands down or top 5 as a Laker/Bull. He won 4 championships as the MAN, has 3 finals MVPS, 2 League MVPs, and is probably the most dynamic two-way big ever along with Hakeem. Not to mention he's probably the only superstar in the history who formed a dynasty in a small market.

When did Minneapolis become a big market?:o

naps
02-29-2012, 04:41 AM
what i want to know is: Which quarter will Ron Artest Knockout Dwyane "The Punk" Wade on Sunday? Don't mess with NBA royalty.

baiting in your own thread? Good :facepalm:

naps
02-29-2012, 04:50 AM
When did Minneapolis become a big market?:o

Man among boys in terms of size? NBA became a competitive league in the late 50's/early 60's ;)

Hellcrooner
02-29-2012, 05:32 AM
Man among boys in terms of size? NBA became a competitive league in the late 50's/early 60's ;)

Toronto Huskies had George Nostrand.

How come they won jack?

Aust
02-29-2012, 05:58 AM
Small market combined with him being pretty boring to watch.

He does deserve more respect and admiration for his accomplishments though

Greedy22
02-29-2012, 08:58 AM
GOAT? Can't say I agree and I'm a huge fan of his... give me Jordan, Kareem, Magic, Russell, Big O, Kobe(by a slight margin over him). Top 10 no doubt anywhere in the 7-10 range

Jint.
02-29-2012, 09:07 AM
goat PF... yes

theheatles
02-29-2012, 09:22 AM
GOAT PF, all time top 10 lock

WeaponXXX
02-29-2012, 10:07 AM
Yeah, I agree. He deserves to say GOAT at the forward position. He earned it.

Becks2307
02-29-2012, 10:29 AM
If Duncan hadn't fallen off the past three seasons (NOT his fault I know its partly because Pop wants to conserve him) he would have a great case.

Am I wrong for thinking peak Garnett was better peak Duncan based on pure basketball ability.....not achievements? I can't think imagine prime Duncan was ever better than Garnett in 2004

That said GOAT PF no doubt.

3RDASYSTEM
02-29-2012, 11:00 AM
How in the hell was he anti IVERSON when AI basically did same thing he did in taking a bottom tier team and making'em legit again for yrs? diff between BROWN/POP is that POP understands having actual playmakers/scorers around his franchise star...DAVILLE dont ever put AI in same sentence with MARBURY/SPREWELL...they wont ever get highly mentioned in they era with SHAQ/DUNCAN/KG llike AI will...jus like SHAQ said 'AI is a top 5 player ever' ....and i dont care that SHAQ said BYNUM was best center in league..he does have a point cuz a legit big is supposed to jus go down low and post up bang and dominate,not set a thousand screenz at top of screen per game..so he has a small point as far as 'traditional' center.but we all know HOWARD is best....so to me players like ALCINDOR/SHAQ/JORDAN/BIRD words mean more when they speak on a player then when a SKIP/PSD member says it

And how is DUNCAN clean cut when he got more pissed than AI when stern changed dress code rules and he rocks a tongue ring?But i guess ya gotta point since he wasnt so spoken out like IVERSON that they didnt make a big case for him instead they put focus on AI/hiphop/jewelry/baggypants

kingsdelez24
02-29-2012, 11:08 AM
Duncan is still in the league and not blowing away 250 mil... iverson is currently playing mens league basketball

Anti iverson

ManningToTyree
02-29-2012, 11:24 AM
He is the best PF ever and arguably top 5 overall. Not the GOAT

Lakeshow24KB
02-29-2012, 11:27 AM
He's a boss.

Vincent
02-29-2012, 11:42 AM
GOAT? That title is pretty much reserved for Jordan, unless LeBron wins not 5, not 6, not 7...

69centers
02-29-2012, 12:32 PM
Awesome all around game but not being on a big market team, and not doing that one explosive thing that most superstars have in their repertoire will hold him back from GOAT discussions.

I always hate his GOAT at the PF position because he's a center in my mind and always will be. I could never call him best PF of all time because it isn't a fair comparison to other PF's who are true power forwards. Had he been drafted by most other teams other than San Antonio, he would have played center his whole career. In fact, he played center while on the floor most of the time in San Antonio after Robinson left, but he was "called" the PF.

Hellcrooner
02-29-2012, 12:35 PM
Awesome all around game but not being on a big market team, and not doing that one explosive thing that most superstars have in their repertoire will hold him back from GOAT discussions.

I always hate his GOAT at the PF position because he's a center in my mind and always will be. I could never call him best PF of all time because it isn't a fair comparison to other PF's who are true power forwards. Had he been drafted by most other teams other than San Antonio, he would have played center his whole career. In fact, he played center while on the floor most of the time in San Antonio after Robinson left, but he was "called" the PF.

Whats a true powerforward nowdays?

Amare/ Bosh / Pau play more like centers ( when not straight up lined up at center indeed)

Bargnani/ Dirk/Love and Even Kg when he was explosive enough play more like Sf.

waveycrockett
02-29-2012, 12:48 PM
He is probably the best PF of all time if you want to consider him a PF but I dont. He was the 2nd best center of this generation and decade BUT he cant be consider GOAT because I've seen a prime Duncan play a Prime Shaq. And Shaq destroyed him and the spurs 9 times out 10.

kdspurman
02-29-2012, 12:48 PM
Awesome all around game but not being on a big market team, and not doing that one explosive thing that most superstars have in their repertoire will hold him back from GOAT discussions.

I always hate his GOAT at the PF position because he's a center in my mind and always will be. I could never call him best PF of all time because it isn't a fair comparison to other PF's who are true power forwards. Had he been drafted by most other teams other than San Antonio, he would have played center his whole career. In fact, he played center while on the floor most of the time in San Antonio after Robinson left, but he was "called" the PF.

He guarded the teams better player whether it was Shaq or Dirk, or KG. But Rasho was a center for them, Nazr Mohammed was the center at one point as well. He is their best big defender, so he will guard the 4 or the 5.

A lot of guys feel that way, but the fact is, he came in playing the PF, and he is still labeled the PF. KG is sometimes in as the only big, Amare was, it just depends on match ups. Dirk is really a SF, but he gets labeled a 4 cause of his size. But the way he plays, is more of the 3 spot.

kdspurman
02-29-2012, 12:53 PM
He is probably the best PF of all time if you want to consider him a PF but I dont. He was the 2nd best center of this generation and decade BUT he cant be consider GOAT because I've seen a prime Duncan play a Prime Shaq. And Shaq destroyed him and the spurs 9 times out 10.

Please name me the 9 times. :facepalm: Tim always went at it with Shaq. Lakers overall were just that great, until 03 when they dominated (thanks again to Tim) the lakers and finally got over the hump.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=duncati01&p2=onealsh01

AceMan
02-29-2012, 12:57 PM
MJ, Magic, Bird, Russell and Kareem are definitely ahead of him

Wilt, Hakeem, Oscar, Shaq and Kobe are probably ahead of him

Therefore, I don't even think he's top 10. I think he's on that third tier with guys like West and Moses.

waveycrockett
02-29-2012, 01:11 PM
Please name me the 9 times. :facepalm: Tim always went at it with Shaq. Lakers overall were just that great, until 03 when they dominated (thanks again to Tim) the lakers and finally got over the hump.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=duncati01&p2=onealsh01

Did you even look at the link you just posted??? Shaq had a better game than Timmy in pretty much every single matchup until he left Miami at which point Shaq clearly wasnt in his prime anymore. His prime really ended in like '03-'04. That link doesnt even include postseason games either where Shaq was usually in beast mode. And remember Timmy guarded Shaq ALOT because he was the Spurs best interior defender and Shaq usually had all Spurs bigs in foul trouble early and Shaq still put up huge numbers on him while on the other hand Timmy was usually facing a lesser defender like Robert Horry, AC Green, Samamki Walker so Shaqs numbers were not only better but came against a better defender than TD faced.

Chronz
02-29-2012, 01:13 PM
He guarded the teams better player whether it was Shaq or Dirk, or KG. But Rasho was a center for them, Nazr Mohammed was the center at one point as well. He is their best big defender, so he will guard the 4 or the 5.
He would only guard Shaq when he played the 5 and even then it was a rare sight.


A lot of guys feel that way, but the fact is, he came in playing the PF, and he is still labeled the PF.
Maybe on defense he was the PF but he played like more of a Center than D-Rob did.


KG is sometimes in as the only big, Amare was, it just depends on match ups. Dirk is really a SF, but he gets labeled a 4 cause of his size. But the way he plays, is more of the 3 spot.


KG and Dirk did start their careers at the 3, they played some 5 but both are more of a true 4 than Duncan was. Thats actually a compliment because you have to be tough as **** to be able to play Center, and I dont mean PF masquerading as a 5 the way Amare was, I mean having a back to the basket game while anchoring your interior defense. Still they always wanted to protect Duncan by giving him a true center to play alongside of. Kind of how like Pau can play some 5 but you prefer to mix it up.

king4day
02-29-2012, 01:15 PM
Has he ever missed the playoffs? He could certainly be in consideration for top PF of alltime for sure.
GOAT is tough because each position is different. Duncan has 4 rings and always keeps his teams elite or close to it.
It's a good argument.

Chronz
02-29-2012, 01:18 PM
Did you even look at the link you just posted??? Shaq had a better game than Timmy in pretty much every single matchup until he left Miami at which point Shaq clearly wasnt in his prime anymore. His prime really ended in like '03-'04. That link doesnt even include postseason games either where Shaq was usually in beast mode. And remember Timmy guarded Shaq ALOT because he was the Spurs best interior defender and Shaq usually had all Spurs bigs in foul trouble early and Shaq still put up huge numbers on him while on the other hand Timmy was usually facing a lesser defender like Robert Horry, AC Green, Samamki Walker so Shaqs numbers were not only better but came against a better defender than TD faced.

Playoff # are right there bro. And the twin towers were one of the few defenses that limited Shaq, thats why Kobe was so integral in every one of their series.

kdspurman
02-29-2012, 01:22 PM
Did you even look at the link you just posted??? Shaq had a better game than Timmy in pretty much every single matchup until he left Miami at which point Shaq clearly wasnt in his prime anymore. His prime really ended in like '03-'04. That link doesnt even include postseason games either where Shaq was usually in beast mode. And remember Timmy guarded Shaq ALOT because he was the Spurs best interior defender and Shaq usually had all Spurs bigs in foul trouble early and Shaq still put up huge numbers on him while on the other hand Timmy was usually facing a lesser defender like Robert Horry, AC Green, Samamki Walker so Shaqs numbers were not only better but came against a better defender than TD faced.

did YOU look at the link? you have to SCROLL DOWN for playoff games. Tim's averages were neck and neck with Shaq and a little better in some categories. Like I said, they both went at it. And don't give me that about Horry, Green, Walker, etc... Shaq guarded him plenty, I watched every playoff game

kdspurman
02-29-2012, 01:24 PM
He would only guard Shaq when he played the 5 and even then it was a rare sight.


Maybe on defense he was the PF but he played like more of a Center than D-Rob did.



KG and Dirk did start their careers at the 3, they played some 5 but both are more of a true 4 than Duncan was. Thats actually a compliment because you have to be tough as **** to be able to play Center, and I dont mean PF masquerading as a 5 the way Amare was, I mean having a back to the basket game while anchoring your interior defense. Still they always wanted to protect Duncan by giving him a true center to play alongside of. Kind of how like Pau can play some 5 but you prefer to mix it up.

Good point. If he played the 5 his whole career, it would've taken a toll on him.

waveycrockett
02-29-2012, 01:26 PM
Playoff # are right there bro. And the twin towers were one of the few defenses that limited Shaq, thats why Kobe was so integral in every one of their series.

The "twin towers" really stopped being relevant after 99-00 when they beat the Knicks in the finals. Robinson was a part time player after that in the early part of the decade and already retired before either Shaq or TD had even stopped being in their prime. Also they never stopped Shaq they slowed him down a bit in some games but never stopped him. Shaq still had very dominant games against the Spurs even tho they were the only team with a prayer of slowing him down after the Blazers lost Rasheed, Sabonis, JO and those guys. But like I said TD guarded Shaq alot and Shaq still put up great numbers while TD was 99% of the time being guarded by guys like AC Green, Horry and Samaki Walker so that puts things in perspective. TD was great in his prime but he was not better than Shaq.

kdspurman
02-29-2012, 01:28 PM
The "twin towers" really stopped being relevant after 99-00 when they beat the Knicks in the finals. Robinson was a part time player after that in the early part of the decade and already retired before either Shaq or TD had even stopped being in their prime. Also they never stopped Shaq they slowed him down a bit in some games but never stopped him. Shaq still had very dominant games against the Spurs even tho they were the only team with a prayer of slowing him down after the Blazers lost Rasheed, Sabonis, JO and those guys. But like I said TD guarded Shaq alot and Shaq still put up great numbers while TD was 99% of the time being guarded by guys like AC Green, Horry and Samaki Walker so that puts things in perspective. TD was great in his prime but he was not better than Shaq.

You sound like you know nothing about the game. Why don't you pull a Shaq and quit while you're ahead.

waveycrockett
02-29-2012, 01:29 PM
did YOU look at the link? you have to SCROLL DOWN for playoff games. Tim's averages were neck and neck with Shaq and a little better in some categories. Like I said, they both went at it. And don't give me that about Horry, Green, Walker, etc... Shaq guarded him plenty, I watched every playoff game

Like I said in their PRIMES. Your telling me Shaq was still in his prime his latter years in Miami and PHX and BOS?? And the numbers while they were in their primes show Shaq was the better player especially when you consider TD was facing lesser defenders.

kdspurman
02-29-2012, 01:31 PM
Like I said in their PRIMES. Your telling me Shaq was still in his prime his latter years in Miami and PHX and BOS?? And the numbers while they were in their primes show Shaq was the better player especially when you consider TD was facing lesser defenders.

Tim was not in his prime either! so his numbers too are down :facepalm: Everyone who guarded Shaq also guarded Tim. Lesser defenders? Are you kidding me?

waveycrockett
02-29-2012, 01:55 PM
Like I said in their PRIMES. Your telling me Shaq was still in his prime his latter years in Miami and PHX and BOS?? And the numbers while they were in their primes show Shaq was the better player especially when you consider TD was facing lesser defenders.

Tim was not in his prime either! so his numbers too are down :facepalm: Everyone who guarded Shaq also guarded Tim. Lesser defenders? Are you kidding me?
Do you know how to count? How many seasons Shaq came into the league before TD? How could they leave their primed at the same time? You sound like you have no clue what ur talkin about

Chronz
02-29-2012, 02:00 PM
The "twin towers" really stopped being relevant after 99-00 when they beat the Knicks in the finals. Robinson was a part time player after that in the early part of the decade and already retired before either Shaq or TD had even stopped being in their prime.
I disagree, they may have never been as a great as they were in the 90's but to say Robinson was a part time player when he was still arguably the best defender in the game is a huge disservice to his legacy. I dont know what you stance is on statistical analysis but it is an objective measure and they paint a picture of a very impactful player and a real game changer on the defensive end (He led the league in DRTG at the tender age of 35). At least give him till 2001, he was till a 32MPG player in the playoffs, and he turned back the clock in 2003 for a few short bursts.



Also they never stopped Shaq they slowed him down a bit in some games but never stopped him. Shaq still had very dominant games against the Spurs even tho they were the only team with a prayer of slowing him down after the Blazers lost Rasheed, Sabonis, JO and those guys.
So you agree they were the only team with a prayer and they did the best job, its all relative, your not going to stop either of these monsters but thats as close as you can get without completely compromising your team defensive scheme. And yea the Blazers were the other team.


But like I said TD guarded Shaq alot and Shaq still put up great numbers while TD was 99% of the time being guarded by guys like AC Green, Horry and Samaki Walker so that puts things in perspective. TD was great in his prime but he was not better than Shaq.

Id be very curious about that validity of that 99% figure, I recall Shaq being put on Duncan several times. Sometimes with limited success, sometimes with great success. One of my favorite games is when Shaq shuts down Duncan, IIRC Duncan shot 2-14 against Shaq in that game. In my estimation that one playoff series in Duncans best series against the Lakers he shot shot 7-23 in 4th quarters(Which was when Shaq was put on Duncan).

Ill try to find the youtube link buts thats still only 1 game, we should investigate the matter more thoroughly.

Chronz
02-29-2012, 02:03 PM
Good point. If he played the 5 his whole career, it would've taken a toll on him.

Yup, but he wasnt sissified the way KG was (IMO), I might be completely wrong on this one because I couldnt follow the Twolves the way we can now but I do remember KG needing the likes of Ervin Johnson to defend Duncan and analyst were raving about how important it was to be able to play KG off of the ball and help on Duncan. I mean its one thing if he doesnt play your position but these were the 2 preeminent "PF's" in the game.

Chronz
02-29-2012, 02:09 PM
Dp

NoahH
02-29-2012, 02:18 PM
Best PF of all time for sure

nickdymez
02-29-2012, 02:21 PM
He is these things:

1 the best PF ever.

2 The best player of the 00s Decade.

3 a Top 10-15 player all time.

That said, Much as he is my favourite player of the 00s top 5 is too much, and nope he is not in the first line of Goat contenders with the Magics, Jordans, Wilts, Kareems, Robertsons, Birds......

No, kobe is and im not being a homer. Kobe played at a higher level longer.

mindofsports82
02-29-2012, 02:21 PM
Timmy usually gets mentioned top5 all time. But he has a great case for GOAT ever. 2MVPs, 4Championships, 13all star appearances, 3finals MVP, 9time first team, 8time defensive first team. Any player with those accolades deserves to be in GOAT discussion. And main reason he is not because he plays for small market. He doesn't receive the same attention as big market players. Imagine Tim Duncan the player playing for the knicks and all the media hype there.

Nonetheless, Tim Duncan supreme basketball player has put a franchise, and a small market city on the map. Duncan has single-handedly made the Spurs a powerhouse. Quite assassin without the flair. Tim Duncan was vital reshaping NBA image from thuggery that was late 90s-early 2000s to what it is. He was the anti-Latrell Sprewell, anti-Allen Iverson. A clean-cut superstar, an unstoppable force as basketball player.

The big fundamental is not just GOAT power forward, he is GOAT ever.

ARE YOU BEING SERIOUS?! There is no way....ever....in the history of life...that anyone should consider Duncan as the greatest ever. MJ is #1 all-time. That's a given. I could come up with so many more that I would consider before Duncan. I like how you list his accomplishments, without providing his statistics. Top ten in anything? I mean....greatest power forward ever....I could get behind that. But greatest player ever? That's laughable.

nickdymez
02-29-2012, 02:21 PM
But Tim Duncan is one of my favorite players of all time

mindofsports82
02-29-2012, 02:25 PM
No, kobe is and im not being a homer. Kobe played at a higher level longer.

Agreed. Kobe is the 2nd best player of all-time IMO. So, if we're going for greatest player of the 00's....Kobe over TD. Unrelated note, but still related to the topic, TD doesn't have 4 championships, he has 3.5. '99 was a half year, so that shouldn't count as a full 'ship. :)

LA_Raiders
02-29-2012, 02:46 PM
Top 15, IMO...

beliges
02-29-2012, 02:53 PM
Timmy usually gets mentioned top5 all time. But he has a great case for GOAT ever. 2MVPs, 4Championships, 13all star appearances, 3finals MVP, 9time first team, 8time defensive first team. Any player with those accolades deserves to be in GOAT discussion. And main reason he is not because he plays for small market. He doesn't receive the same attention as big market players. Imagine Tim Duncan the player playing for the knicks and all the media hype there.

Nonetheless, Tim Duncan supreme basketball player has put a franchise, and a small market city on the map. Duncan has single-handedly made the Spurs a powerhouse. Quite assassin without the flair. Tim Duncan was vital reshaping NBA image from thuggery that was late 90s-early 2000s to what it is. He was the anti-Latrell Sprewell, anti-Allen Iverson. A clean-cut superstar, an unstoppable force as basketball player.

The big fundamental is not just GOAT power forward, he is GOAT ever.

Im not sure ive ever heard Timmy mentioned in the top 5. Id certainly would not put him top 5. Hes a certain top 10 though. The greatest PF to ever play the game. But Top 5? He doesnt have a chance. Id put him at the 8 or 9 spot behind guys like MJ, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Bird, Kobe.

kdspurman
02-29-2012, 03:01 PM
Do you know how to count? How many seasons Shaq came into the league before TD? How could they leave their primed at the same time? You sound like you have no clue what ur talkin about

In their respective primes, (talking playoff HEAD TO HEAD matchups) like YOU said. They were both putting up very similar numbers. You said head to head man. Like I said before, just quit while you're ahead. You're talking so much nonsense you're forgetting what you're saying.

kdspurman
02-29-2012, 03:04 PM
BTW, I haven't had a chance to actually reply on the post, but I Think Timmy is just fine in the 7-10 range. His accolades and accomplishments speak for themselves.

BULLSFAN0810
02-29-2012, 03:05 PM
Duncan isnt better than ....

1.Karl Malone

2.Kevin Garrnett...Averaged a double double for a minute...was a rebounder,shot blocker,*PASSER* *JUMP SHOOTER* and defensive pressence.

3. Barkley..Rings or NOT..IMO a great player changes the RULES of the game.. Barkley made the league instate the 3 second to back rule while posting....he punished larger defenders in the post even though he was 6'4. a much better rebounder.

4.Rasheed Wallace... He went to Detroit...they won...He was a great rebounder,shooter,passer and great team mate.he was at times leader in blocks in NBA.

5. Chris Webber... i think Webber is one of the MOST UNDER RATED PLAYERS EVER...HE WAS A DOMINATE PLAYER FOR ALL OF HIS ENTIRE LIFE, EVERY LEVEL; HIGH SCHOOL<COLLEGE<NBA...SHAQ/KOBE KILLED HIS DREAM..Skill for Skill Webber had the chance to be a new age MAGIC.Charisma,Skills,flash..he just made bad personal NBA/College choices..(shouldve made sure he won at Mich before he left...beat the ish outta Peja Stoyoka***** for letting Rick FOx(who will OWN LBJ,SHUT HIM DOWN,4 years straight...And the year Webb seemed to have LAs number...he BLEW his knee...it was soo easy to see LA was going to get owned ..then Webb stole the rock went on a fast break..had LA shook,then Webb went up ...blew his ish out. WEBB PLAYER WHO COULDVE BEEN.

im not saying Timmy isnt great,but i can state a few guys in his era who was or is as good as he...and to top it off ,had higher production for a longer clip.

Rockice_8
02-29-2012, 03:05 PM
He's got a chance to be the best PF ever but not the GOAT. I'd say he's a top 3 easily at the PF position. Every young PF should watch video of him on how to play the right way.

JordansBulls
02-29-2012, 03:13 PM
definitely not and losing to a #8 seed in round 1 last year would hurt his chances of moving up.

nickdymez
02-29-2012, 03:17 PM
Duncan isnt better than ....

1.Karl Malone

2.Kevin Garrnett...Averaged a double double for a minute...was a rebounder,shot blocker,*PASSER* *JUMP SHOOTER* and defensive pressence.

3. Barkley..Rings or NOT..IMO a great player changes the RULES of the game.. Barkley made the league instate the 3 second to back rule while posting....he punished larger defenders in the post even though he was 6'4. a much better rebounder.

4.Rasheed Wallace... He went to Detroit...they won...He was a great rebounder,shooter,passer and great team mate.he was at times leader in blocks in NBA.

5. Chris Webber... i think Webber is one of the MOST UNDER RATED PLAYERS EVER...HE WAS A DOMINATE PLAYER FOR ALL OF HIS ENTIRE LIFE, EVERY LEVEL; HIGH SCHOOL<COLLEGE<NBA...SHAQ/KOBE KILLED HIS DREAM..Skill for Skill Webber had the chance to be a new age MAGIC.Charisma,Skills,flash..he just made bad personal NBA/College choices..(shouldve made sure he won at Mich before he left...beat the ish outta Peja Stoyoka***** for letting Rick FOx(who will OWN LBJ,SHUT HIM DOWN,4 years straight...And the year Webb seemed to have LAs number...he BLEW his knee...it was soo easy to see LA was going to get owned ..then Webb stole the rock went on a fast break..had LA shook,then Webb went up ...blew his ish out. WEBB PLAYER WHO COULDVE BEEN.

im not saying Timmy isnt great,but i can state a few guys in his era who was or is as good as he...and to top it off ,had higher production for a longer clip.


WOOOWW!!! :speechless:

Joshtd1
02-29-2012, 03:23 PM
He won't be considered #1. He could have had a chance if it wasn't for a shot by Fisher in 04, and a absolutely dumb *** foul by Manu in 06. I personally believe they would have won 5 straight if it wasn't for those 2 plays, but that's in the past.

He is top 10 for sure though. I'm not going to comment on the guys who I actually never got a chance to watch or remember well enough like Magic or Bird or Kareem since I was like 5 when they were finishing up. I have seen them play before obviously, but not in depth like I have with this generation of players.

For the people that have though, why put Bird or Magic or the big O in front of Duncan? What ranks them ahead? Do people base it off stats or actual play?

kdspurman
02-29-2012, 03:28 PM
Duncan isnt better than ....

1.Karl Malone

2.Kevin Garrnett...Averaged a double double for a minute...was a rebounder,shot blocker,*PASSER* *JUMP SHOOTER* and defensive pressence.

3. Barkley..Rings or NOT..IMO a great player changes the RULES of the game.. Barkley made the league instate the 3 second to back rule while posting....he punished larger defenders in the post even though he was 6'4. a much better rebounder.

4.Rasheed Wallace... He went to Detroit...they won...He was a great rebounder,shooter,passer and great team mate.he was at times leader in blocks in NBA.

im not saying Timmy isnt great,but i can state a few guys in his era who was or is as good as he...and to top it off ,had higher production for a longer clip.

Tim Duncan is the epitome of consistency. :facepalm:

1. Productivity for Malone slightly dipped in the playoffs whereas Tim's numbers got Better. Duncan was a better defender than Malone. He protected the rim, and blocked shots hence the reason he more than doubles the amount of all defensive teams.

2. KG Blocks - 1879 Tim Blocks- 2426 :clap: Both are great passers. KG has about 1000 More rebounds that Timmy (although he's played 2 more years)

3. Barkley certainly punished defenders, and was so versatile and a tremendous rebounder. But his defense has nothing on Timmy's.

4. Seriously. No explanation needed.

Maybe if you combine Malone's consistent scoring, with KG's defensive intensity, and Barkley's leadership you might have an argument.

Chronz
02-29-2012, 03:32 PM
Heres the game I was talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxha1C7gg38

Shaq gets D-Rob into foul trouble forcing Duncan to play him most of the night. He eventually fouls Duncan out too but not before holding him to 2-14 and blocking several of his post up shots.

kdspurman
02-29-2012, 03:33 PM
definitely not and losing to a #8 seed in round 1 last year would hurt his chances of moving up.

No. It doesn't. Just like what Jordan did on the Wiz doesn't impact him. (even though he did well) These guys already made their presence felt. Just like if Tim won another ring, he still wouldn't get moved up.

mavwar53
02-29-2012, 03:38 PM
Let's just say that Mt. Rushmore would consist of Magic, Bird, MJ, Kareem.


If there was a version 2.0, I'd put Shaq, Kobe, Duncan and Hakeem.


I'll miss the day when The Big Fundamental retires.

He seems to already have, whenever I see spurs highlights or a discussion about the spurs I never see him or his named mentioned. It's kind of sad how fast he's fallen. I respect what he's done but right now he's hardly a force.

Joshtd1
02-29-2012, 03:41 PM
Heres the game I was talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxha1C7gg38

Shaq gets D-Rob into foul trouble forcing Duncan to play him most of the night. He eventually fouls Duncan out too but not before holding him to 2-14 and blocking several of his post up shots.

From what I remember Duncan had more success actually posting up Shaq instead of trying to face up because Shaq was still quick enough, and strong enough to not let him get to the spot he liked.

That and the pick and roll, don't think Shaq has ever been good guarding that.

kdspurman
02-29-2012, 03:45 PM
He seems to already have, whenever I see spurs highlights or a discussion about the spurs I never see him or his named mentioned. It's kind of sad how fast he's fallen. I respect what he's done but right now he's hardly a force.

That's what happens when you only watch ESPN highlights. He's playing 28MPG and putting up 14 and 9 and still a very solid post defender and shot blocker.

nycsports2
02-29-2012, 03:52 PM
kobes better than tim duncan imo

LdotAdot
02-29-2012, 03:54 PM
He seems to already have, whenever I see spurs highlights or a discussion about the spurs I never see him or his named mentioned. It's kind of sad how fast he's fallen. I respect what he's done but right now he's hardly a force.

Really? It just looks like that because I think his play flies under the radar and isn't flashy. But he's been putting in work in limited minutes at 28mpg.


Anyway, he's 18th in the league in PER. Look at his Per36 and his Advanced Stats they are crazy consistent. He's in decline but it's not by any means fast.

Edit link: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html

BULLSFAN0810
02-29-2012, 03:58 PM
Tim Duncan is the epitome of consistency. :facepalm:

1. Productivity for Malone slightly dipped in the playoffs whereas Tim's numbers got Better. Duncan was a better defender than Malone. He protected the rim, and blocked shots hence the reason he more than doubles the amount of all defensive teams.

2. KG Blocks - 1879 Tim Blocks- 2426 :clap: Both are great passers. KG has about 1000 More rebounds that Timmy (although he's played 2 more years)

3. Barkley certainly punished defenders, and was so versatile and a tremendous rebounder. But his defense has nothing on Timmy's.

4. Seriously. No explanation needed.

Maybe if you combine Malone's consistent scoring, with KG's defensive intensity, and Barkley's leadership you might have an argument.

1.Duncan had Robinson ...2 seven footers with Elliot at sf(one of the better sf in his day)..Ellie at sg..an elite defender at his time...Bruce Bowen,Tony Parker..Manu..Stephen Jackson...yeah Timmy ALWAYS HAD HELP AT MORE THAN ONE POSITION. MAlone had Stockton,and hornacek..IN UTAH..LOST TO THE DREAM KILLER MICHEAL JORDAN...IF MJ WASNT AROUND MALONE WAS THE BEST IN THE GAME..LOOK AT REB,PTS LEADER..FOR 10 plus years you see MJ 1, Malone 2..rebounding etc...in UTAH

2.KG was in Minnesota,they killed sooo much of his carreer. the year they got an old Sam Cassell, And SPREEWELL,they went 1 game from finals..with a little help KG was very formidable...So as i see it IMO KG was better than Duncan..dude was for years almost at a triple double 20 10 6 at PF...IN MINESOTA

3.Barkley was not great defender..but he was a awesome rebounder and scorer...dude was AN LBJ FASTBREAK B4 LBJ WAS BORN..Barkley would rebound,and go coast to coast for the dunk...Dreams shattered by dream killer MJ.

4.And....IF YOU SAY WEBBER ISNT GREAT...IM SORRY YOURE A HATER..HIS RESUME WITHOUT AN SHIP IS GREAT...FAB 5...CHANGED NBA FROM COLLEGE...CHANGED THE GAME PERIOD..EVEN TILL THIS DAY..LITTLE KIDS DONT GET WHY THEY TRY TO DRESS UP WHILE HOOPING....FAB 5...CHRIS WEBBER..LONG SHORTS,BLACK SOCKS , BlackShoes..But even if that not the topic..every level he was a starter and the main man on his team...he was a franchise player...his team every year was in the mix to win it...but they ran into the dream killer 2.0 KOBE/Shaq..you can compare the stats.

BUT WITH THAT ALL TYPED...HERE ARE THE CONSTANTS: MJ/SHAQ/KOBE KILLED ALOTTA PPLS DREAMS....DUNCAN NEVER WENT THROUGH L.A AND WON IT ALL..SO HOW IS HE BETTER THAN ANY OF THE FORMENTIONED PFs...THEY WERE BEAT BY L.A ALL THE OTHER GUYS LOST IN MOST CASES TO MJ/SHAQ/KOBE DIRECTLY ..WHILE DUNCAN AVOIDED SHAQ...WHO MADE DUNCAN AND ALL ON THIS LIST NULL..SO IMO DUNCAN GETS THE BENEFIT OF WINNING BUT DIDNT DIRECTLY KILL HIS ENEMY..HE NEVER OVER CAME SHAQ.And to diss Rasheed is NOT SMART..The DUDE WENT TO DETROIT AND WON! WHO SEEN THAT?DUDE WAS A 20 pt 10 rebound guy.He could post,shoot the 3,pass a little, dribble a little, a fierce rebounder and shot blocker..he was clutch and had a patent move..inwhich timmy didnt.head to head ,skill for skill they were just as equal..you talk as if Sheed is Micheal Sweetney..dude was a beast, his tude took away from it.

DubiousCustomer
02-29-2012, 04:01 PM
Duncan isnt better than ....

1.Karl Malone

2.Kevin Garrnett

3. Barkley

4.Rasheed Wallace

5. Chris Webber

im not saying Timmy isnt great,but i can state a few guys in his era who was or is as good as he...and to top it off ,had higher production for a longer clip.

This list is just pure troll. Only KG is even in the same room as Duncan. Having gone to UM I understand why people like Chris Webber, but it isn't even close. Duncan has near quadruple doubles in NBA finals games, CWebb has a history of choking with the game on the line.

DubiousCustomer
02-29-2012, 04:05 PM
BUT WITH THAT ALL TYPED...HERE ARE THE CONSTANTS: MJ/SHAQ/KOBE KILLED ALOTTA PPLS DREAMS....DUNCAN NEVER WENT THROUGH L.A AND WON IT ALL..SO HOW IS HE BETTER THAN ANY OF THE FORMENTIONED PFs...THEY WERE BEAT BY L.A ALL THE OTHER GUYS LOST IN MOST CASES TO MJ/SHAQ/KOBE DIRECTLY ..WHILE DUNCAN AVOIDED SHAQ...WHO MADE DUNCAN AND ALL ON THIS LIST NULL..SO IMO DUNCAN GETS THE BENEFIT OF WINNING BUT DIDNT DIRECTLY KILL HIS ENEMY..HE NEVER OVER CAME SHAQ.

This guy...

The spurs beat LA in '99 (sweep) and in '03.

kdspurman
02-29-2012, 04:09 PM
1.Duncan had Robinson ...2 seven footers with Elliot at sf(one of the better sf in his day)..Ellie at sg..an elite defender at his time...Bruce Bowen,Tony Parker..Manu..Stephen Jackson...yeah Timmy ALWAYS HAD HELP AT MORE THAN ONE POSITION. MAlone had Stockton,and hornacek..IN UTAH..LOST TO THE DREAM KILLER MICHEAL JORDAN...IF MJ WASNT AROUND MALONE WAS THE BEST IN THE GAME..LOOK AT REB,PTS LEADER..FOR 10 plus years you see MJ 1, Malone 2..rebounding etc...in UTAH

2.KG was in Minnesota,they killed sooo much of his carreer. the year they got an old Sam Cassell, And SPREEWELL,they went 1 game from finals..with a little help KG was very formidable...So as i see it IMO KG was better than Duncan..dude was for years almost at a triple double 20 10 6 at PF...IN MINESOTA

3.Barkley was not great defender..but he was a awesome rebounder and scorer...dude was AN LBJ FASTBREAK B4 LBJ WAS BORN..Barkley would rebound,and go coast to coast for the dunk...Dreams shattered by dream killer MJ.

4.And....IF YOU SAY WEBBER ISNT GREAT...IM SORRY YOURE A HATER..HIS RESUME WITHOUT AN SHIP IS GREAT...FAB 5...CHANGED NBA FROM COLLEGE...CHANGED THE GAME PERIOD..EVEN TILL THIS DAY..LITTLE KIDS DONT GET WHY THEY TRY TO DRESS UP WHILE HOOPING....FAB 5...CHRIS WEBBER..LONG SHORTS,BLACK SOCKS , BlackShoes..But even if that not the topic..every level he was a starter and the main man on his team...he was a franchise player...his team every year was in the mix to win it...but they ran into the dream killer 2.0 KOBE/Shaq..you can compare the stats.

BUT WITH THAT ALL TYPED...HERE ARE THE CONSTANTS: MJ/SHAQ/KOBE KILLED ALOTTA PPLS DREAMS....DUNCAN NEVER WENT THROUGH L.A AND WON IT ALL..SO HOW IS HE BETTER THAN ANY OF THE FORMENTIONED PFs...THEY WERE BEAT BY L.A ALL THE OTHER GUYS LOST IN MOST CASES TO MJ/SHAQ/KOBE DIRECTLY ..WHILE DUNCAN AVOIDED SHAQ...WHO MADE DUNCAN AND ALL ON THIS LIST NULL..SO IMO DUNCAN GETS THE BENEFIT OF WINNING BUT DIDNT DIRECTLY KILL HIS ENEMY..HE NEVER OVER CAME SHAQ.

Wow not only did you post something ridiculous but your defending it with even more Garbage. And yes Duncan went through Shaq 2x. Once they swept them in 99, and in 03 they blew them out in LA in 6. Now you're bringing up Webber? Wow. Just... Wow. :crazy:

Joshtd1
02-29-2012, 04:10 PM
1.Duncan had Robinson ...2 seven footers with Elliot at sf(one of the better sf in his day)..Ellie at sg..an elite defender at his time...Bruce Bowen,Tony Parker..Manu..Stephen Jackson...yeah Timmy ALWAYS HAD HELP AT MORE THAN ONE POSITION. MAlone had Stockton,and hornacek..IN UTAH..LOST TO THE DREAM KILLER MICHEAL JORDAN...IF MJ WASNT AROUND MALONE WAS THE BEST IN THE GAME..LOOK AT REB,PTS LEADER..FOR 10 plus years you see MJ 1, Malone 2..rebounding etc...in UTAH

2.KG was in Minnesota,they killed sooo much of his carreer. the year they got an old Sam Cassell, And SPREEWELL,they went 1 game from finals..with a little help KG was very formidable...So as i see it IMO KG was better than Duncan..dude was for years almost at a triple double 20 10 6 at PF...IN MINESOTA

3.Barkley was not great defender..but he was a awesome rebounder and scorer...dude was AN LBJ FASTBREAK B4 LBJ WAS BORN..Barkley would rebound,and go coast to coast for the dunk...Dreams shattered by dream killer MJ.

4.And....IF YOU SAY WEBBER ISNT GREAT...IM SORRY YOURE A HATER..HIS RESUME WITHOUT AN SHIP IS GREAT...FAB 5...CHANGED NBA FROM COLLEGE...CHANGED THE GAME PERIOD..EVEN TILL THIS DAY..LITTLE KIDS DONT GET WHY THEY TRY TO DRESS UP WHILE HOOPING....FAB 5...CHRIS WEBBER..LONG SHORTS,BLACK SOCKS , BlackShoes..But even if that not the topic..every level he was a starter and the main man on his team...he was a franchise player...his team every year was in the mix to win it...but they ran into the dream killer 2.0 KOBE/Shaq..you can compare the stats.

BUT WITH THAT ALL TYPED...HERE ARE THE CONSTANTS: MJ/SHAQ/KOBE KILLED ALOTTA PPLS DREAMS....DUNCAN NEVER WENT THROUGH L.A AND WON IT ALL..SO HOW IS HE BETTER THAN ANY OF THE FORMENTIONED PFs...THEY WERE BEAT BY L.A ALL THE OTHER GUYS LOST IN MOST CASES TO MJ/SHAQ/KOBE DIRECTLY ..WHILE DUNCAN AVOIDED SHAQ...WHO MADE DUNCAN AND ALL ON THIS LIST NULL..SO IMO DUNCAN GETS THE BENEFIT OF WINNING BUT DIDNT DIRECTLY KILL HIS ENEMY..HE NEVER OVER CAME SHAQ.

1999 and 2003 championships beg to differ.

kdspurman
02-29-2012, 04:11 PM
1999 and 2003 championships beg to differ.

I can't believe I just read all of that. So Not only are Malone, KG, and Barkley better but so are Sheed and Webber. :laugh2:

DubiousCustomer
02-29-2012, 04:16 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjPgAQQst7U

'Sheed doubles off Horry, loses the game and swings the series.

Laughs-ville.

nickdymez
02-29-2012, 04:20 PM
I can't believe I just read all of that. So Not only are Malone, KG, and Barkley better but so are Sheed and Webber. :laugh2:

Yea i almost threw up when i read that Rasheed Wallace is better than Tim Duncan.

BULLSFAN0810
02-29-2012, 04:23 PM
This list is just pure troll. Only KG is even in the same room as Duncan. Having gone to UM I understand why people like Chris Webber, but it isn't even close. Duncan has near quadruple doubles in NBA finals games, CWebb has a history of choking with the game on the line.


This list isnt troll..its just my 33 years of playing ball(all levels except NBA),watching ball..looking at tendacies. There isnt a guy on here who isnt hall of fame bound ,so how is this troll?

ok,,good metaphor..so is LBJ trash because he chokes constant..or can we say "LBJ hasnt pulled the big one out yet,but he was one hell of a player,or one of the greats?"

Oh yeah...Timmy did win..in 99. and 03...ok...99...david robinson...10 year old KOBE...03..they won..but from then on when the LAKE SHOW WAS IN EFFECT..FULL EFFECT..not the years they fought or some other bs,,,TIMMY HAD NO HOPE. Timmy isnt even old,he is very fundamentally sound

i like Webber because he had actually skills..vs ANY PF it wasnt one sided..he got his..his team had flaws. and KG was robbed of his game in MINNESOTA..no one got to see KG really in full effect.

fan01592
02-29-2012, 04:24 PM
Longest thread ever for such a ridiculous premise.

AllKohn
02-29-2012, 04:27 PM
I remember when Duncan was a rookie and he wiped his balls all over the knicks in the finals-love Duncan.

But in no way is he better then Hakeem.

BULLSFAN0810
02-29-2012, 04:28 PM
I can't believe I just read all of that. So Not only are Malone, KG, and Barkley better but so are Sheed and Webber. :laugh2:

ugh..see you guys call troll but cant read..never said better..said just as good or better

and yes i think KG is BETTER, OR BARKLEY...HELL, i THINK SHEED AND TIMMY ARE EQUALS...TRADE SHEED FOR TIMMY IN S.A POP STILL WINS THE SAME AMOUNT OF SHIPS..DO YOU GET IT? HIS COACH IS A WINNER.MALONE IMO SHOULD GET YOU BANNED IF YOU SAY THE GUY WHO TRAILED MJ ALMOST 20 YEARS IN SCORING WHO HAD THE BEST PG GETTING HIM FREEBIES ISNT BETTER THAN DUNCAN..i just think DUNCAN is TOP TEN BUT NOT 1..

HELL DUNCAN ISNT BETTER THAN KEVIN MCHALE....TOP THAT!

DubiousCustomer
02-29-2012, 04:32 PM
ok,,good metaphor..so is LBJ trash because he chokes constant..or can we say "LBJ hasnt pulled the big one out yet,but he was one hell of a player,or one of the greats?"

Yes, at this point LBJ is below Duncan.


Oh yeah...Timmy did win..in 99. and 03...ok...99...david robinson...10 year old KOBE...03..they won..but from then on when the LAKE SHOW WAS IN EFFECT..FULL EFFECT..not the years they fought or some other bs,,,TIMMY HAD NO HOPE. Timmy isnt even old,he is very fundamentally sound

So when the Lakers win, it's because they are good, and when someone else wins it's because the Lakers "weren't in full effect." Gotcha. Pure homerism.


i like Webber because he had actually skills..vs ANY PF it wasnt one sided..he got his..his team had flaws. and KG was robbed of his game in MINNESOTA..no one got to see KG really in full effect.

Again, it's this weird "full effect" argument that really doesn't mean anything. Really it's a counter-factual statement. "If KG played anywhere else [something] would have happened." Well maybe that's true, but KG didn't play anywhere else. He didn't turn Minnesota into a contender either which is on KG, not Duncan. In fact, the Spurs beat the Timberwolves many times in the playoffs. If KG was so much better than Duncan, they would have won at least once you would think.

kdspurman
02-29-2012, 04:35 PM
Longest thread ever for such a ridiculous premise.

I guess all the Lin/Lebron Hairline/Lebron Tweets etc are thread worthy? lol

DubiousCustomer
02-29-2012, 04:38 PM
ugh..see you guys call troll but cant read..never said better..said just as good or better

and yes i think KG is BETTER, OR BARKLEY...HELL, i THINK SHEED AND TIMMY ARE EQUALS...TRADE SHEED FOR TIMMY IN S.A POP STILL WINS THE SAME AMOUNT OF SHIPS..DO YOU GET IT? HIS COACH IS A WINNER.MALONE IMO SHOULD GET YOU BANNED IF YOU SAY THE GUY WHO TRAILED MJ ALMOST 20 YEARS IN SCORING WHO HAD THE BEST PG GETTING HIM FREEBIES ISNT BETTER THAN DUNCAN..i just think DUNCAN is TOP TEN BUT NOT 1..

HELL DUNCAN ISNT BETTER THAN KEVIN MCHALE....TOP THAT!

If you asked this of Popovich he would laugh you out of the room.

kdspurman
02-29-2012, 04:40 PM
ugh..see you guys call troll but cant read..never said better..said just as good or better

and yes i think KG is BETTER, OR BARKLEY...HELL, i THINK SHEED AND TIMMY ARE EQUALS...TRADE SHEED FOR TIMMY IN S.A POP STILL WINS THE SAME AMOUNT OF SHIPS..DO YOU GET IT? HIS COACH IS A WINNER.MALONE IMO SHOULD GET YOU BANNED IF YOU SAY THE GUY WHO TRAILED MJ ALMOST 20 YEARS IN SCORING WHO HAD THE BEST PG GETTING HIM FREEBIES ISNT BETTER THAN DUNCAN..i just think DUNCAN is TOP TEN BUT NOT 1..

HELL DUNCAN ISNT BETTER THAN KEVIN MCHALE....TOP THAT!

The fact that you said you've been playing ball for 33 plus years eliminates my original theory that you were 11. I don't mean to be disrepectful, but the stuff you are saying is crazy! Sheed for Timmy? So Malone scored a lot. So Does Dirk. Should Dirk be ahead of Duncan? If Sheed had the right mind set he could have been absolutely. He was a great defender and had an array of moves. But it didn't happen. You're really saying a whole lot of "what ifs".

waveycrockett
02-29-2012, 04:40 PM
In their respective primes, (talking playoff HEAD TO HEAD matchups) like YOU said. They were both putting up very similar numbers. You said head to head man. Like I said before, just quit while you're ahead. You're talking so much nonsense you're forgetting what you're saying.

You put up a head to head for there entire careers. Which includes about 10+ matchups were Shaq was a washed up version of what he was in PHX, BOS and MIA. Do you know how averages work my dude?

BULLSFAN0810
02-29-2012, 04:42 PM
Yes, at this point LBJ is below Duncan.



So when the Lakers win, it's because they are good, and when someone else wins it's because the Lakers "weren't in full effect." Gotcha. Pure homerism.



Again, it's this weird "full effect" argument that really doesn't mean anything. Really it's a counter-factual statement. "If KG played anywhere else [something] would have happened." Well maybe that's true, but KG didn't play anywhere else. He didn't turn Minnesota into a contender either which is on KG, not Duncan. In fact, the Spurs beat the Timberwolves many times in the playoffs. If KG was so much better than Duncan, they would have won at least once you would think.

1.So LBJ is great? he messed up,he isnt still great?Why is Webber any less? i get the ships but he isnt a tier 2 player...Webber was tier 1.

2.it was proven when LA lost they didnt have phil or they were in fighting..im not saying beating them was impossible,but cmon!!! a young Shaq? losing? with Kobe? because they purely lost?

3.K.G got Spree and Cassell...1 game from finals...i thought you guys watched balled not read box scores..its a team game...they got KG help for a year or 2 and they were knocking at the finals door...broke the team up left KG alone...put Duncan alone;we will then think Timmy is ok,a better Rik Smits.

DubiousCustomer
02-29-2012, 04:46 PM
Timmy is ok,a better Rik Smits.

Like I said, pure troll.

BULLSFAN0810
02-29-2012, 04:50 PM
The fact that you said you've been playing ball for 33 plus years eliminates my original theory that you were 11. I don't mean to be disrepectful, but the stuff you are saying is crazy! Sheed for Timmy? So Malone scored a lot. So Does Dirk. Should Dirk be ahead of Duncan? If Sheed had the right mind set he could have been absolutely. He was a great defender and had an array of moves. But it didn't happen. You're really saying a whole lot of "what ifs".

Wow you guys are mean..but if i get ugly..im banned. Tim for Sheed skill for skill,wasnt or isnt a fall off.Both played good DEFENSE...SHEED WAS A BETTER REBOUNDER,AND POST DEFENDER..AND HAD A LONGER RANGE..AND MORE CONSISTANT..AND WAS JUST AS CLUTCH..SO YOURE TELLING ME POP IF HE HAD TO DEAL WITH THE TRADE COULDNT STILL WIN WITH SHEED, AND DETROIT WITH 1 HALF OF A SEASON WON WITH SHEED? DUM DA DUM DUM.

AND MALONE and DIRK 2 SCORERS...1 JUMPSHOOTER, THE OTHER A SLASHER....MALONE IS BETTER THAN DIRK,JUST BECAUSE GAME STYLE EFFECTIVENESS..AND YES DUNCAN IMO iS BENEATH MALONE,JUST BECAUSE LEVEL OF COMP FACED

BULLSFAN0810
02-29-2012, 04:54 PM
Like I said, pure troll.

SRIK SMITS=VERY RESPECTFUL PLAYER..FUNDAMENTALLY SOUND,NOT EXPLOSIVE.GOOD ALL AROUND GAME...AVERAGED CLOSE TO 20..JUST LIKE TIMMY. IT WASNT AN INSULT..LEARN TO COMPREHEND. SO YOU GUYS THINK A TIMMY IN MINNESOTA,WITHOUT A DECENT COACH OR TEAM WOULD DO BETTER THAN KG? NO PLAYER ON A BAD TEAM DOES WELL..MJ DIDNT(young & OLD MJ..KOBE STRUGGLES ALONE..etc)

BklynKnicks3
02-29-2012, 05:06 PM
hell no between 12-15 I think he is a great player but dont see how he is better then KG was just always in a better situation. Same with Sir charles

KingPosey
02-29-2012, 05:09 PM
Im gonna get smashed for this, but I am going to have to say that Duncan is overrated.

I still believe he is a HOFer
ONE OF the best PFs of all time, but I wouldnt say the best for sure by any means, and he definitely inst the GOAT.

AIRMAR72
02-29-2012, 05:46 PM
Im gonna get smashed for this, but I am going to have to say that Duncan is overrated.

I still believe he is a HOFer
ONE OF the best PFs of all time, but I wouldnt say the best for sure by any means, and he definitely inst the GOAT.

i remember sometime ago when garnett was league prodigy because he played above the rim etc while timmy who is one of the best PF ever to play in the NBA stayed on the ground kept his game simple and shoot bankshots he was consistent and efficient when you compare him to garnett who did get better but tim came in league and impose his WILL by playing efficient and never said A WORD on the court, timmy would just at look at you that look he had on his face that blank stare lol priceless

thekmp211
02-29-2012, 05:49 PM
i actually think his vanilla game and personality have more to do with the lack of hype than anything else. unless imagining him taking that bank shot counts duncan doesn't have a lot of "signature" moments, per se. that said i still don't think he is in the ultimate GOAT discussion but as some others have said is probably in that very next tier of player.

Chronz
02-29-2012, 05:53 PM
He won't be considered #1. He could have had a chance if it wasn't for a shot by Fisher in 04, and a absolutely dumb *** foul by Manu in 06. I personally believe they would have won 5 straight if it wasn't for those 2 plays, but that's in the past.
Fishers miracle shot just offset Duncans miracle shot. One lucky shot deserves another remember. And what if Horry makes that 3 and the Lakers go back to LA with the series tied instead of losing in 6?


For the people that have though, why put Bird or Magic or the big O in front of Duncan? What ranks them ahead? Do people base it off stats or actual play?

Good question, I have no idea why Bird is seen as this mythic deity that cant be surpassed by either Shaq/Duncan.

Joshtd1
02-29-2012, 05:53 PM
.

Chronz
02-29-2012, 05:55 PM
From what I remember Duncan had more success actually posting up Shaq instead of trying to face up because Shaq was still quick enough, and strong enough to not let him get to the spot he liked.

That and the pick and roll, don't think Shaq has ever been good guarding that.
I wish synergy would give the public stats from the early 2kERA, I would love to see a possession breakdown between the 2. Its a project I look forward to completing some day.

My guess would be he had his most success against Shaq in the PnR setting but he has had his ups and downs defending the play so I wouldnt say hes never been good at it. In all honesty he wouldve won DPOY one year if Mourning hadnt been off the charts good as well.

Joshtd1
02-29-2012, 05:58 PM
Fishers miracle shot just offset Duncans miracle shot. One lucky shot deserves another remember. And what if Horry makes that 3 and the Lakers go back to LA with the series tied instead of losing in 6?

Good points, but I still feel there is absolutely no way Fisher can get off a shot with his form falling away like that in .4 seconds. I try not to watch it because it angers me, but if I can get 100% proof the clock starts as soon as the ball has any contact with his hand I'll believe it, until then I think the clock got started a hair late.


Good question, I have no idea why Bird is seen as this mythic deity that cant be surpassed by either Shaq/Duncan.

I mean I love Bird as a player, seen what he was capable of. But when it comes down to it, what does he have over Duncan or even Shaq that makes him greater? Thats why I'm curious if people base it off stats along with his winning, because don't both Duncan and Shaq have just as good if not better stats, along with more rings/accolades?

Chronz
02-29-2012, 06:02 PM
Good points, but I still feel there is absolutely no way Fisher can get off a shot with his form falling away like that in .4 seconds. I try not to watch it because it angers me, but if I can get 100% proof the clock starts as soon as the ball has any contact with his hand I'll believe it, until then I think the clock got started a hair late.
If there was .3 remaining I would agree but the rule book states you can catch and shoot with .4. Even then if you want to blame human error an argument can be made that it works both ways, did the clock stop exactly when it shouldve?

BULLSFAN0810
02-29-2012, 06:05 PM
Good points, but I still feel there is absolutely no way Fisher can get off a shot with his form falling away like that in .4 seconds. I try not to watch it because it angers me, but if I can get 100% proof the clock starts as soon as the ball has any contact with his hand I'll believe it, until then I think the clock got started a hair late.



I mean I love Bird as a player, seen what he was capable of. But when it comes down to it, what does he have over Duncan or even Shaq that makes him greater? Thats why I'm curious if people base it off stats along with his winning, because don't both Duncan and Shaq have just as good if not better stats, along with more rings/accolades?

Quote Fisher: Agree

Quote Bird: Bird has history...he is an Indiana Icon..Indiana is a meeca for ball. Great High school player....went to school,played Magic..great college rivalry...went to NBA met Magic again...History...And to all you youngins..not by age but by game "WATCHING" expierence..Bird use to shoot and be running down court back on DEFENSE before it went in the hoop..REAL STORY..HE WAS THAT AUTO MATIC AND A COMPETITOR..AND REBOUNDER, AND PASSER...

Joshtd1
02-29-2012, 06:06 PM
If there was .3 remaining I would agree but the rule book states you can catch and shoot with .4. Even then if you want to blame human error an argument can be made that it works both ways, did the clock stop exactly when it shouldve?

My thinking is that if someone can only tip a ball in with .3 or less, than how on earth does .1 extra second make that much of a difference specially with his type of form, and shot it is.

But you're right, it may not have stopped. However I will always feel that way until I see absolute proof otherwise. Damn Fisher :(

Chronz
02-29-2012, 06:17 PM
My thinking is that if someone can only tip a ball in with .3 or less, than how on earth does .1 extra second make that much of a difference specially with his type of form, and shot it is.

But you're right, it may not have stopped. However I will always feel that way until I see absolute proof otherwise. Damn Fisher :(
Story gos that the euro leagues proved that a catch-and-shoot attempt takes at least three-tenths of a second so they had to set the rule somewhere after the Trent Tucker game winner.

But Jason Kapono proved it was possible to do it even faster than that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzYup6FifRc&feature=player_embedded

Joshtd1
02-29-2012, 06:22 PM
Quote Fisher: Agree

Quote Bird: Bird has history...he is an Indiana Icon..Indiana is a meeca for ball. Great High school player....went to school,played Magic..great college rivalry...went to NBA met Magic again...History...And to all you youngins..not by age but by game "WATCHING" expierence..Bird use to shoot and be running down court back on DEFENSE before it went in the hoop..REAL STORY..HE WAS THAT AUTO MATIC AND A COMPETITOR..AND REBOUNDER, AND PASSER...

I'm not trying to dispute Larry Legend's legacy, just curious on as an NBA player and his ability/winning/everything on what would make him higher ranked then Duncan.

Joshtd1
02-29-2012, 06:31 PM
Story gos that the euro leagues proved that a catch-and-shoot attempt takes at least three-tenths of a second so they had to set the rule somewhere after the Trent Tucker game winner.

But Jason Kapono proved it was possible to do it even faster than that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzYup6FifRc&feature=player_embedded

I have no audio here at work, so I watched the first couple minutes to where he has a shot at .38 seconds. Compared to that and Fisher who caught it, turned around then fired..I still find it hard to believe that took just .4.

Hell even Danny Green had a shot like that this year at .5 and it was ruled no good.

BULLSFAN0810
02-29-2012, 06:33 PM
I'm not trying to dispute Larry Legend's legacy, just curious on as an NBA player and his ability/winning/everything on what would make him higher ranked then Duncan.

Skill Level..Bird played Sf and Pf..so that meant he could post you and take you deep with the 3...he was a superb passer,team mate and rebounder. he was a match up problem even though he couldnt jump off a stair.And he was clutch.

History...from the day he started in INDIANA his success has been detailed, the only total other history that is equal is Magic because their story inter twines...then there is Webbers story.

Even today if Bird was young he'd kill alot of now "STAR" players..probably be top 3 even today,he (Bird) had uncanny skills..he was slow a heck ,but a great team defender,so one on one Bird would run you into the teeth of the defense,and run LBJ in circles..bird wasnt just a spot up shooter he was Ray Allen,Reggie Miller all in One and then some.

Joshtd1
02-29-2012, 06:41 PM
Skill Level..Bird played Sf and Pf..so that meant he could post you and take you deep with the 3...he was a superb passer,team mate and rebounder. he was a match up problem even though he couldnt jump off a stair.And he was clutch.

History...from the day he started in INDIANA his success has been detailed, the only total other history that is equal is Magic because their story inter twines...then there is Webbers story.

Even today if Bird was young he'd kill alot of now "STAR" players..probably be top 3 even today,he (Bird) had uncanny skills..he was slow a heck ,but a great team defender,so one on one Bird would run you into the teeth of the defense,and run LBJ in circles..bird wasnt just a spot up shooter he was Ray Allen,Reggie Miller all in One and then some.

I know what he could do, I've seen him enough and watched enough games of his to know his ability.

Usually when people rank players ahead of other players it's because of their skill, along with their accolades and achievements and stats.

If you compare both guys, their stats are pretty damn good even though they played different positions, and I believe Duncan has the better resume in terms of accolades and achievements. I was just wanting someone to make a debate on why he should be ranked ahead of Duncan, the way Chronz was asking for a reason for Duncan to be ranked ahead of Kareem.

Chronz
02-29-2012, 06:48 PM
Skill Level..Bird played Sf and Pf..so that meant he could post you and take you deep with the 3...he was a superb passer,team mate and rebounder. he was a match up problem even though he couldnt jump off a stair.And he was clutch.

History...from the day he started in INDIANA his success has been detailed, the only total other history that is equal is Magic because their story inter twines...then there is Webbers story.

Even today if Bird was young he'd kill alot of now "STAR" players..probably be top 3 even today,he (Bird) had uncanny skills..he was slow a heck ,but a great team defender,so one on one Bird would run you into the teeth of the defense,and run LBJ in circles..bird wasnt just a spot up shooter he was Ray Allen,Reggie Miller all in One and then some.
Both were great team defenders, arguably on par with one another (though I have Duncan ahead), but you didnt have to hide Duncan on the weakest frontcourt player the way you needed with Bird. Any argument for Bird has to center around his offense.

Chronz
02-29-2012, 06:50 PM
I have no audio here at work, so I watched the first couple minutes to where he has a shot at .38 seconds. Compared to that and Fisher who caught it, turned around then fired..I still find it hard to believe that took just .4.

Hell even Danny Green had a shot like that this year at .5 and it was ruled no good.
Maybe I dunno but GP's pass to Fisher is an underrated part of the play, I think the pass made a world of difference, Green also seems to have a higher jump and longer extension. I think the bounce pass messed him up.

llemon
02-29-2012, 07:10 PM
Both were great team defenders, arguably on par with one another (though I have Duncan ahead), but you didnt have to hide Duncan on the weakest frontcourt player the way you needed with Bird. Any argument for Bird has to center around his offense.

Bird was not a great defender.Not even a good defender.

Tim Duncan, to me, is the greatest PF ever

beliges
02-29-2012, 07:25 PM
Both were great team defenders, arguably on par with one another (though I have Duncan ahead), but you didnt have to hide Duncan on the weakest frontcourt player the way you needed with Bird. Any argument for Bird has to center around his offense.

Bird was far from being a great defender. Actually, that was one of the weaknesses in his game. Duncan on the other hand was one of the better big men defenders to ever play. To put them in the same category as far as defensive abilities are concerned is a major insult to Timmy. Bird was a great player, one of the all-time 8 greatests, but it wasnt his defense that made him great.

Chronz
02-29-2012, 07:40 PM
Bird was not a great defender.Not even a good defender.

Tim Duncan, to me, is the greatest PF ever

Bird was far from being a great defender. Actually, that was one of the weaknesses in his game. Duncan on the other hand was one of the better big men defenders to ever play. To put them in the same category as far as defensive abilities are concerned is a major insult to Timmy. Bird was a great player, one of the all-time 8 greatests, but it wasnt his defense that made him great.

Team D guys, if you deny his activity on that end I dont think youve seen the 86 Finals. He made life miserable for Dream

BULLSFAN0810
02-29-2012, 07:43 PM
Both were great team defenders, arguably on par with one another (though I have Duncan ahead), but you didnt have to hide Duncan on the weakest frontcourt player the way you needed with Bird. Any argument for Bird has to center around his offense.


Defensively..i got with Duncan..even though its compairing ppl who play diffrent positions.But Birds wasnt someone who you HAD to "HIDE" he was a consumate team defender..and Thats how the NBA was played then. There was no ONE ON ONE BECAUSE THE TEAM...REAPEAT IT AGAIN.....THE T E A M S that Bird and Magic played on where uppper elite defensive teams. There was no beating Bird or ANYONE, ONE ON ONE...THERE WAS VERY LITTLE ISO,BECAUSE 1. THEYD DROP LBJ ON HIS DOME FOR COMING TO THE HOLE LIKE HE IS A MAN AMONGST BOYS..2 IT WAS A REAL TEAM GAME THEN AND THE RULES ALLOWED PLAYERS TO BE PHYSICAL...IMAGINE A PLAYER LIKE MAGIC ,BIRD , MJ PLAYING WITHOUT THE HAND CHECK?And Birds Game wasnt TOTALLY AROUND HIS OFFENSE..HE WAS A GREAT GREAT REBOUNDER...DUDE AVERAGED 10 rebs in his prime AT SF/PF and his feet were slow but his hands were real precise.

Chronz
02-29-2012, 08:01 PM
Defensively..i got with Duncan..even though its compairing ppl who play diffrent positions.
Bird played alot of PF so its not a night and day difference.


But Birds wasnt someone who you HAD to "HIDE" he was a consumate team defender..
So the Celtics decided to put Bird on non-scoring centers or whoever the weakest scoring threat was for ***** and giggles?


and Thats how the NBA was played then.
For the most part teams have always put their best defenders on the opposing teams best scorers.


There was no ONE ON ONE BECAUSE THE TEAM...REAPEAT IT AGAIN.....THE T E A M S that Bird and Magic played on where uppper elite defensive teams.
Definitely not the Lakers, they sucked at defending PG's, seems like they always have, and twig boy had problems against brutes, they may have had a year or two after they got Mychal Thompson where they were pretty good defensively but never elite. The Celtics were elite defensively up until McHale broke his foot and could no longer bail Bird out.


There was no beating Bird or ANYONE, ONE ON ONE...THERE WAS VERY LITTLE ISO,BECAUSE 1. THEYD DROP LBJ ON HIS DOME FOR COMING TO THE HOLE LIKE HE IS A MAN AMONGST BOYS..2 IT WAS A REAL TEAM GAME THEN AND THE RULES ALLOWED PLAYERS TO BE PHYSICAL...IMAGINE A PLAYER LIKE MAGIC ,BIRD , MJ PLAYING WITHOUT THE HAND CHECK?
LULZ Bron wouldve destroyed the 80's defenses just the same if not worse. Dont feed me your cliches, defenses have gotten so much better since the 80's.


And Birds Game wasnt TOTALLY AROUND HIS OFFENSE..HE WAS A GREAT GREAT REBOUNDER...DUDE AVERAGED 10 rebs in his prime AT SF/PF and his feet were slow but his hands were real precise.
In a comparison vs Duncan it has to center around his offense because as good of a rebounder he was, Duncan was much better.

lvlheaded
02-29-2012, 08:22 PM
He isn't the GOAT, but there is not many I'd take over Duncan. He is definitely top 5-8 IMO

TRF929
02-29-2012, 08:35 PM
I think stats are overrating, personally IMO MJ wasn't the most talented player ever but with the talents he had and the DRIVE he had, made him unstoppable. Thats why I believe no one even compares to MJ, he just had the drive of never losing and lead his team to it. LBJ doesn't have that drive, so even with his awesome talents, I can't even mention him as a top player ever, luckily he's on a team with Wade and Wade has more drive than him. Duncan is in that category, LEADING his team to unthinkable accomplishments and chips. Thats what seperates Duncan from others, along with his stats, he was a true leader and he still is, ask the Spurs players now, its just not the same without Duncan playing, he just has that presence.

I like how a couple of you are bringing up clips of games and what not, which is pure bs. I can find a bad game for anyone or discredit any player for another player. I can get footage of AI over Kobe or the Admiral Robinson over shaq pre duncan etc...

Stats help but they dont tell the whole story, Duncan is a leader and has stats to support him. I liked KG but Duncan is over him in being a Leader, plus nowadays I think KG plays dirty but you can call it whatever you want,

I have little knowledge about the legends and thats why I don't say anything about them or try to rank em

In the end Duncans consistency and leadership put him amongst the very top and he's never had BS as Kobe, Shaq and countless others.

IDK who it was but whomever is trying to make a case for Kobe is doing a horrible job, you once posted that if you take his arguing and fighting years outa him as he has with Shaq he's the greatest ever, but in doing that your taking away half his career. I forgot to add the years he played when he was 10 yrs old. Shaq IMO is the reason why Kobe is considered among the great, take those years away, along with those where he was trying to lead a team by himself (Smush Parker) and that takes away most his career. So you did a horrible job with that arguement, It's easier to go against Kobe by saying without a dominant big Kobe's nothing but I wont do that I like Kobe

UPRock
02-29-2012, 09:17 PM
Best PF in the history of the game, and arguably the best Player of the decade. People can say that Kobe is the best one but no, Duncan only played a few seasons with David Robinson then he destroyed the league in a small market team as the best player in Spurs History.

Ty Fast
02-29-2012, 09:29 PM
greatest pf of all time. top 10 of all time for sure. top 5 might be a reach.