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View Full Version : Chad Ford thinks there's a good chance Dwight and Deron end up in Dallas.



NYman15
02-23-2012, 12:36 PM
"Billy (Newark)

Does Deron Williams leave NJ this summer?
Chad Ford (1:22 PM)

Probably. The only scenario where he doesn't is if the Nets swing a deal for Dwight Howard at the trade deadline. At that point, I think Williams hangs around. If that doesn't happen, I think Williams will join Dwight Howard (assuming he's not traded to the Lakers in March) in Dallas next summer. Lots of signals pointing to this being the preferred outcome for both players."

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/42624/nba-insider-chad-ford

Thoughts?

H.E.R.
02-23-2012, 05:01 PM
It's mathematically impossible for Dallas to sign two more max contracts even if they entirely gutted the roster except for Dirk. Move along.

ThuglifeJ
02-23-2012, 05:04 PM
no it's not. They drop Marions contract and amnesty Haywood and there good right there.

w/ making a few small changes here and there.

Hellcrooner
02-23-2012, 05:05 PM
not unless other teams gms are stupid and want to allow them to do it by taking their **** on contracts for expirings.

H.E.R.
02-23-2012, 05:10 PM
Dirk - $20,907,128
11 roster cap holds - $5,209,644

2012-2013 Salary Cap - $58 million
Deron's First Year Max - Over $17 million
Dwight's First Year Max - Over $19 million

You do the math. That's not even taking into account Odom and VC's partially guaranteed money for next year.

Evolution23
02-23-2012, 05:11 PM
Dallas is better option for both of them. Dirk, Dwight, and Deron? Insane!

LongIslandIcedZ
02-23-2012, 05:13 PM
I feel like this is nothing we didnt already know. Nets shouldnt risk Howard getting to FA and should make the move at the deadline. If they cant get Dwight, then Deron has no reason to stay. I'm pretty sure NJ will get Dwight.

shep33
02-23-2012, 05:20 PM
The writing is on the wall... Orlando must trade him to the Nets. Get rid of as many bad contracts as possible. Let them take on Turk + Duhon/Rich

If Dallas grabs both guys, good for them, Cuban is the man. But if your the Magic FO, you trade him by the deadline, not on draft night, but by the deadline.

Orlando after the break should just tell him to sign/opt in. If he doesn't trade his ***

pebloemer
02-23-2012, 05:25 PM
Dirk - $20,907,128
11 roster cap holds - $5,209,644

2012-2013 Salary Cap - $58 million
Deron's First Year Max - Over $17 million
Dwight's First Year Max - Over $19 million

You do the math. That's not even taking into account Odom and VC's partially guaranteed money for next year.

And that is also assuming they are able to trade one of Haywood or Marion without taking salary back in return going into next year.

oak2455
02-23-2012, 05:30 PM
Be funny if they went to Dallas

H.E.R.
02-23-2012, 05:34 PM
And that is also assuming they are able to trade one of Haywood or Marion without taking salary back in return going into next year.

Those numbers take into account moving all of their unwanted contracts that don't expire this year by March 15 (trade deadline) and include amnestying Haywood (Like I said, moving every single contract except Dirk by the start of free agency).

BigDFan85
02-23-2012, 05:42 PM
Dirk - $20,907,128
11 roster cap holds - $5,209,644

2012-2013 Salary Cap - $58 million
Deron's First Year Max - Over $17 million
Dwight's First Year Max - Over $19 million

You do the math. That's not even taking into account Odom and VC's partially guaranteed money for next year.

Odom's contract has a buyout option. He will not be on the team next year. Also, do you not think Mark Cuban and Donnie Nelson thought about this already? I guarantee you they were 10 steps ahead of your thinking months ago.

H.E.R.
02-23-2012, 05:46 PM
Odom's contract has a buyout option. He will not be on the team next year. Also, do you not think Mark Cuban and Donnie Nelson thought about this already? I guarantee you they were 10 steps ahead of your thinking months ago.

And whatever the buyout is for Odom, it counts against next year's cap as well. Again, my numbers are for Dirk's contract ONLY on the payroll.

NYMetros
02-23-2012, 05:47 PM
That would be insane. I think they'll only be able to get one of them, but if they get both, wow. Say hello to Heat/Mavs NBA finals year after year.

Punk
02-23-2012, 06:02 PM
I could honestly see that happening. Dwight would fit in with the Dallas culture.

Rockice_8
02-23-2012, 06:03 PM
It's a long shot but there's a chance they both end up in Dallas. I just can't see any other place he's gonna end up in other then Brooklyn. I just think it's blatantly obvious that he's going there it just a matter of when (March or July).

Raph12
02-23-2012, 06:21 PM
Trade Marion, amnesty Haywood, drop options on all potential FAs and you're good to go. If you need an extra $3-4M, have Dirk restructure his contract a bit... I still say they go to Brooklyn.

Chill_Will_24
02-23-2012, 06:35 PM
It could definitely happen. Athletes are extremely shortsighted and Dallas having been champs recently may sway them there. However in FA there is no better option than Brooklyn for them. Especially if the Nets tank it the rest of the way

lakerboy
02-23-2012, 06:40 PM
Really scary thought.

KB-Pau-DH2012
02-23-2012, 06:43 PM
This is why I'm hoping is Dwight doesn't want to be a Laker, then the New Jersey/Brooklyn Nets need to do whatever they can, probably get a 3rd team involved, and acquire Dwight by the deadline. I don't want to deal with the headache of DWill-Dirk-Howard for the next 5 yrs in the Western Conference.

H.E.R.
02-23-2012, 06:54 PM
Trade Marion, amnesty Haywood, drop options on all potential FAs and you're good to go. If you need an extra $3-4M, have Dirk restructure his contract a bit... I still say they go to Brooklyn.

They would have to find takers for Domique Jones, Rodrique Beaubois, and Vince Carter as well. As for Dirk restructuring his contract:


In the NBA’s rush to piece together a new CBA and in the media’s rush to report on it, news circulated of a new ‘renegotiation-and-extension provision’ that would allow a team to re-do a big contract to spread it over more years, thus lessening its burden on each year’s cap.
-
DB.com has obtained a copy of the revised CBA, and after a look at its contents and a huddle with Mark Cuban, here’s what we discovered about such a possibility: It does not exist.
http://mavericks.scout.com/2/1145100.html

Jint.
02-23-2012, 07:02 PM
Howard, D Will & Dirk = DIRTY

shep33
02-23-2012, 07:07 PM
Howard, D Will & Dirk = DIRTY

I wonder how Howard would respond to being the 3rd best player offensively for that team? He's gonna take a hit scoring the ball, so hopefully he doesn't cry about that.

H.E.R.
02-23-2012, 07:07 PM
No one here reads through threads, do they?

Rndy
02-23-2012, 07:08 PM
Rndy69 thinks they dont.

Raph12
02-23-2012, 07:27 PM
They would have to find takers for Domique Jones, Rodrique Beaubois, and Vince Carter as well.

VC, Odom, Wright and William's contracts are all non-guaranteed (team options), ergo they can be waived/dropped easily.

Currently, the Mavs have $54,323,089 on the books for 2012; now if you amnesty Haywood, drop Odom, VC, Wright and Williams, you have $32,807,385 left over. That's the most they'd have on their roster if they dropped all of those guys' rights.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/dallas-mavericks-team-salary

So if they can trade Marion's $8,396,364 for an expiring, that's $24,411,021 left over. The salary cap for the 2012-13 season is expected to rise to about $60M-to-61M, leaving the Mavs atleast $35M to split between the two stars.
http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2011/11/report-nba-salary-cap-to-remain-at-58-million-rising-in-2012/

A slight paycut for one or the other (likely DWill) would get it done.

CBCable
02-23-2012, 07:29 PM
No one here reads through threads, do they?

If they did, they would see several posts by you containing inaccurate information regarding the Mavs salary cap situation for next year. Believe me, it's possible, the numbers work. Try dallasbasketball.com for a detailed breakdown. It is contingent on trading Marion, which you might think is impossible if you feel like no team would want a lockdown defender and automatic double-double with championship experience..

H.E.R.
02-23-2012, 07:33 PM
VC, Odom, Wright and William's contracts are all non-guaranteed (team options), ergo they can be waived/dropped easily.

Currently, the Mavs have $54,323,089 on the books for 2012; now if you amnesty Haywood, drop Odom, VC, Wright and Williams, you have $32,807,385 left over. That's the most they'd have on their roster if they dropped all of those guys' rights.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/dallas-mavericks-team-salary

So if they can trade Marion's $8,396,364 for an expiring, that's $24,411,021 left over. The salary cap for the 2012-13 season is expected to rise to about $60M-to-61M, leaving the Mavs atleast $35M to split between the two stars.
http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2011/11/report-nba-salary-cap-to-remain-at-58-million-rising-in-2012/

A slight paycut for one or the other (likely DWill) would get it done.

Again, I already went over this. My first post was Dirk's contract alone. No one else except Dirk. That and factor in cap holds for each empty roster spot and they alone can't afford two max contracts.

The salary cap is also expected to stay the same.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7303114/everything-ever-want-know-new-nba-labor-deal
http://houston.sbnation.com/houston-rockets/2011/11/26/2588685/nba-lockout-labor-agreement

H.E.R.
02-23-2012, 07:35 PM
If they did, they would see several posts by you containing inaccurate information regarding the Mavs salary cap situation for next year. Believe me, it's possible, the numbers work. Try dallasbasketball.com for a detailed breakdown. It is contingent on trading Marion, which you might think is impossible if you feel like no team would want a lockdown defender and automatic double-double with championship experience..

One of my linked sources credited dallasbasketball.com. Thanks for proving my point though.


No one here reads through threads, do they?

CBCable
02-23-2012, 07:56 PM
I saw your comment quoting db.com, but thought maybe you missed one of their several articles on why this scenario is realistic. Thought that was odd.

Either way, seems you have figured out what Mark Cuban, Donnie Nelson, Chad Ford, Woj, and Stephen A. Smith, Dwight Howard and Deron Williams have all failed to realize.

ManRam
02-23-2012, 08:03 PM
so do a lot of other people not named Chad Ford...

H.E.R.
02-23-2012, 08:09 PM
I saw your comment quoting db.com, but thought maybe you missed one of their several articles on why this scenario is realistic. Thought that was odd.

Either way, seems you have figured out what Mark Cuban, Donnie Nelson, Chad Ford, Woj, and Stephen A. Smith, Dwight Howard and Deron Williams have all failed to realize.

Chad Ford should stick to the draft. His sources here are "signals".

Adrian Wojnarowski has not once said it was a lock for both to sign in Dallas.

Stephen A. Smith has said Deron will leave the Nets IF they don't land Dwight Howard.

Deron Williams has said his chances of going to Brooklyn is 90%.

Dwight Howard reportedly requested a trade to the Nets back in December.

Where do I think they'll both end up? Brooklyn by trade deadline or free agency.

CBCable
02-23-2012, 08:30 PM
And you may very well be right. For the record, I don't think they'll both end up in Dallas. But to dismiss it as impossible is foolish and short sighted. We all thought Miami's big three was impossible... Until it wasn't.

H.E.R.
02-23-2012, 08:37 PM
And you may very well be right. For the record, I don't think they'll both end up in Dallas. But to dismiss it as impossible is foolish and short sighted. We all thought Miami's big three was impossible... Until it wasn't.

The big difference is that all three were free agents and took huge paycuts to play together and have room to sign and keep other guys. I don't see either Deron and Dwight looking to take paycuts.

Sevilla91
02-23-2012, 09:17 PM
Dirk - $20,907,128
11 roster cap holds - $5,209,644

2012-2013 Salary Cap - $58 million
Deron's First Year Max - Over $17 million
Dwight's First Year Max - Over $19 million

You do the math. That's not even taking into account Odom and VC's partially guaranteed money for next year.


you sir are stupid.

H.E.R.
02-23-2012, 09:23 PM
you sir are stupid.

Way to prove me wrong with links and thoughtful discussion. And I'm not a sir. So not only have you added nothing to this thread, you come off looking like an ***.

thedfactor
02-23-2012, 09:24 PM
The big difference is that all three were free agents and took huge paycuts to play together and have room to sign and keep other guys. I don't see either Deron and Dwight looking to take paycuts.Thank you finally a post that admitted the fact it's possible.

H.E.R.
02-23-2012, 09:28 PM
Thank you finally a post that admitted the fact it's possible.

The goal is to offer both Deron and Dwight max contracts. For Dallas, that's impossible with Dirk on the roster.

gatkins11
02-23-2012, 10:19 PM
The goal is to offer both Deron and Dwight max contracts. For Dallas, that's impossible with Dirk on the roster.

Why would Dallas do that if Dwight and Deron are willing to take less?

IndiansFan337
02-23-2012, 10:23 PM
Bill Simmons has been saying this for two months now...Cuban wouldn't have let all of those guys walk if he didn't think he had a good chance at least to get one of those two.

Wisdom Listens
02-23-2012, 10:48 PM
And you may very well be right. For the record, I don't think they'll both end up in Dallas. But to dismiss it as impossible is foolish and short sighted. We all thought Miami's big three was impossible... Until it wasn't.

If you don't mind, could you explain in detail then how acquiring Williams and Howard would be possible for the Mavericks if they still kept Nowitzki? Not saying you are wrong, just wondering.

H.E.R.
02-23-2012, 10:56 PM
Why would Dallas do that if Dwight and Deron are willing to take less?

How do you know that they ARE willing to take less?


Bill Simmons has been saying this for two months now...Cuban wouldn't have let all of those guys walk if he didn't think he had a good chance at least to get one of those two.

Even Bill Simmons thinks they're not going to Dallas anymore.
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=7597950

thedfactor
02-23-2012, 11:16 PM
The goal is to offer both Deron and Dwight max contracts. For Dallas, that's impossible with Dirk on the roster.Can simply ask you how do you know that is 100% the/their goal?

It was initially Lebron and Bosh's goal too. Not saying the situations are exactly alike, but by no means do both Deron and Dwight have to take the complete max.

And if they indeed both have desire to team up in Dallas with Dirk I'm positive they do understand that concept. So let's put the max money aside and recognize the fact they would take a tad less to make it work for 3D

H.E.R.
02-23-2012, 11:56 PM
Can simply ask you how do you know that is 100% the/their goal?

It was initially Lebron and Bosh's goal too. Not saying the situations are exactly alike, but by no means do both Deron and Dwight have to take the complete max.

And if they indeed both have desire to team up in Dallas with Dirk I'm positive they do understand that concept. So let's put the max money aside and recognize the fact they would take a tad less to make it work for 3D

When there's talk of Deron picking up his option to earn more, I highly doubt that he would take a paycut to play elsewhere. And speaking of understanding concepts, the Nets had the capspace to sign Nene, Tyson Chandler, or Rip Hamilton last offseason, but didn't. You would think Deron would demand a trade by now as well, but like Bill Simmons has said, he hasn't said anything about wanting to leave.

For all the excitement 3D brings, how long will it last? Dirk turns 34 in June and it looks like he'll need rest every season to play 100%. The rest of the roster could very well be filled with minimum salary players and a mini-MLE and that's with paycuts to Deron and Dwight.

CBCable
02-24-2012, 12:07 AM
If you don't mind, could you explain in detail then how acquiring Williams and Howard would be possible for the Mavericks if they still kept Nowitzki? Not saying you are wrong, just wondering.

Step by step:
http://mavericks.scout.com/2/1146164.html

And H.E.R., you mention Miami working because all three players took paycuts. Dirk in 2010 took far less than the max. He's already taken his paycut, and lost much more than Dwight or Deron would have to lose in order to sign in Dallas.

H.E.R.
02-24-2012, 12:17 AM
Step by step:
http://mavericks.scout.com/2/1146164.html

And H.E.R., you mention Miami working because all three players took paycuts. Dirk in 2012 took far less than the max. He's already taken his paycut, and lost much more than Dwight or Deron would have to lose in order to sign in Dallas.

That article also takes into account a higher salary cap. Again, my numbers are Dirk alone assuming they can get everyone else off their books by free agency and they would still offer Deron and Dirk a paycut. Every player they don't want or can't get off the books is a bigger paycut.

Dirk's contract CURRENTLY is still a huge contract. $19,092,873 this year, $20,907,128 next year and $22,721,381 the year after.

kenzo400
02-24-2012, 12:20 AM
They will take a little less. Lebron, Bosh and Wade did it, and i see no reason why Dwight and Deron wouldn't. They want to win and Dallas is the best place for that.

H.E.R.
02-24-2012, 12:22 AM
They will take a little less. Lebron, Bosh and Wade did it, and i see no reason why Dwight and Deron wouldn't. They want to win and Dallas is the best place for that.

Again...


For all the excitement 3D brings, how long will it last? Dirk turns 34 in June and it looks like he'll need rest every season to play 100%. The rest of the roster could very well be filled with minimum salary players and a mini-MLE and that's with paycuts to Deron and Dwight.

Chill_Will_24
02-24-2012, 12:28 AM
The plot is definitely going to thicken if March 15 rolls and Dwight aint on a different team. I personally think Brooklyn is an infinitely better option for Dwight, for both basketball reasons and marketing reasons.

H.E.R.
02-24-2012, 12:30 AM
The plot is definitely going to thicken if March 15 rolls and Dwight aint on a different team.

It will get thicker if Dallas can't move $13.5 million (Marion, Carter, Beaubois, and Jones) for expirings/salary dumps by then as well.

Metsboi69
02-24-2012, 12:41 AM
There was a quote last week from Cuban when the Mavs were at MSG where he was asked what he thought about the Nets move to Brooklyn and he said "I hope they suck." I know I'm probably reading into this to much but I think the dude showed frustration for the fact he now thinks the Nets they'll land dwight and leave him without Deron or D12.

3RDASYSTEM
02-24-2012, 12:59 AM
Lets see outside of LA/NY/CHI its TX allday then top it off with the CUBAN factor who always fields a respectable squad and ship to show for it, DIRK's style of game is fit play for 4-6 more yrs barring major injury because of his flame and 7ft frame and then possibly having HOWARD/DWILL taking basically all the pressure off him as he ages but still can be effective

gatkins11
02-24-2012, 01:29 AM
It will get thicker if Dallas can't move $13.5 million (Marion, Carter, Beaubois, and Jones) for expirings/salary dumps by then as well.

Look, if Dwight and Deron want this to happen, it's going to happen. Don't you think their agents haven't told them about every little detail?

You seem to be the only person here who doesn't accept this as a reasonable possibility. I'm not saying it's a certainty in any way, shape, or form.

thedfactor
02-24-2012, 01:35 AM
It's possible, I'm satisfied.

Likely? eh who knows, time will tell.

KB-Pau-DH2012
02-24-2012, 01:45 AM
Does Chad Ford think that there's any chance Dwight and Deron end up in LA? :(

kenzo400
02-24-2012, 04:24 AM
again

NJ is going to be in the same position. The only difference is that we know that Cuban is willing to spend money in order to make a good team. He will probably be more hesitant with the new CBA agreement, but i'm sure NJ owner is the same way.

Anyways, i believe they can still hold on to Marion and a couple of other pieces and still sign these guys. Dirk can play well until he's 38. He's not going to be slowing down drastically for at least another couple of years.

AnthonyTyrael
02-24-2012, 05:56 AM
Anyways, i believe they can still hold on to Marion and a couple of other pieces and still sign these guys. Dirk can play well until he's 38. He's not going to be slowing down drastically for at least another couple of years.

I don't know about the first part but he can play well for some more years, if he wants. Just like Garnett/Allen or TD. I'd do so, if I would be him. Less minutes, third option, still contributing and running for a title.

Anyway, even hitting the jackpot, it's not a gurantee for winning championships.

Hypothetical fiction: In case they land both next year or one before tradeline this year and the other next year... How's the situation when Dirk's contract expires? What would you do?

Jack of Blades
02-24-2012, 06:19 AM
Does Chad Ford think that there's any chance Dwight and Deron end up in LA? :(

Dwight, yes. Not Deron though.

boolish
02-24-2012, 12:25 PM
each of them would be giving up a ton of money to sign as FA with Dallas.

boolish
02-24-2012, 12:27 PM
They will take a little less. Lebron, Bosh and Wade did it, and i see no reason why Dwight and Deron wouldn't. They want to win and Dallas is the best place for that.

they would be taking A LOT less. bron bosh and wade all got max deals because it was sign and trade. they all gave up a bit to make the numbers work for Riles. If there is no sign and trade to DAL then they end up making $30m less a piece over the life of the deal.

there you go with if "they want to win" again. IN NBA it's money first winning second. Fact.

Rockice_8
02-24-2012, 01:03 PM
Good chance? Eh, let's stick to just calling it a chance.

kenzo400
02-24-2012, 03:35 PM
I don't know about the first part but he can play well for some more years, if he wants. Just like Garnett/Allen or TD. I'd do so, if I would be him. Less minutes, third option, still contributing and running for a title.

Anyway, even hitting the jackpot, it's not a gurantee for winning championships.

Hypothetical fiction: In case they land both next year or one before tradeline this year and the other next year... How's the situation when Dirk's contract expires? What would you do?

Howard and Deron can both sign contracts that they would be able to opt out of in their 3rd or 4th year. After Dirks contract runs out, it all depends. If he wants to play more i'm sure he would sign for a lot less than his previous contract. If not, then they have a lot more space to sign other players to help out Dwight and Deron. If they sign both of these guys they can be one of the top teams for the next decade.

kenzo400
02-24-2012, 03:37 PM
they would be taking A LOT less. bron bosh and wade all got max deals because it was sign and trade. they all gave up a bit to make the numbers work for Riles. If there is no sign and trade to DAL then they end up making $30m less a piece over the life of the deal.

there you go with if "they want to win" again. IN NBA it's money first winning second. Fact.

That's not true. They each took about 15 million less than the max, even with the sign and trades.


According to ESPN, Bosh and James will earn $110 million, while DWade will earn $107 million, with each of them taking roughly $15 million less than the max.

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2010/07/lebron-bosh-wade-take-less-money/