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statquo
02-21-2012, 08:04 PM
The Big Question: Is Colby Rasmus a stud or a dud?

The Blue Jays appeared to pull off a coup at the 2011 trading deadline when they landed a 24-year-old centerfielder with superstar tools who had hit .276/.361/.498 as a sophomore the previous season in exchange for a weak starting pitching prospect, two veteran relievers approaching free agency (one of whom they've since reacquired), a lefty specialist and a fifth outfielder.

It will only be a coup, however, if they can get that centerfielder back on track. Rasmus hit just .225/.298/.391 last season, including .173/.201/.316 in 35 games with the Jays after being acquired from the Cardinals in a three-way trade. He also displayed an uncharacteristically awful plate approach over that span, drawing just five walks against 39 strikeouts. That will be the first area for Toronto hitting coach Dwayne Murphy to target, but Murphy is the man who helped create Jose Bautista, so there's reason for optimism. The biggest question is whether or not Rasmus will be as willing and dedicated a student.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/cliff_corcoran/02/13/spring.training.preview.al.east/index.html#ixzz1n42dViNp

What are your expectations for Rasmus? Is he going to bust out with a fresh start?, or be a dud? I'm optimistic, I'm saying he bats for .280avg, 20-25 hrs with something like a .310obp.

Twitchy
02-21-2012, 08:08 PM
I love how he puts more emphasis on the 35 games he sucked as opposed to the 94 games where he was above league average.

Tmath
02-21-2012, 08:10 PM
Zaun was just blasting him on the Bob McCowan show saying he has no hustle.

Dol-Fan
02-21-2012, 08:13 PM
Zaun was just blasting him on the Bob McCowan show saying he has no hustle.

Gregg Zaun is a tool and was a horrible ballplayer. The only Jays player I've ever heckled at a game (mind you I was probably 15 or so).

2009mvp
02-21-2012, 08:14 PM
I think we're all pretty sick of Zaun's garbage. I mean, in terms of discussing specific on field plays he's not bad, but listening to him 'analyze' anything else is a pretty gigantic waste of time.

idrinkpepsi
02-21-2012, 08:24 PM
We should be asking this mid-season, not pre-season.

PJ Awesome
02-21-2012, 08:42 PM
The word of a major league veteren or a lazy baseball player..hmmm come on people. Zaun obviously wasn't a ****in all-star but I'm seeing some of you people who praised him last year, picking him apart because he said the same thing about Rasmus that everyone else has been saying? come on..

masTOR_shake1
02-21-2012, 08:52 PM
Gregg Zaun is a tool and was a horrible ballplayer. The only Jays player I've ever heckled at a game (mind you I was probably 15 or so).

and a steroid user at that,,i like zauny but he can be a little cruel. anywho, i think rasmus will be a beast for us, I can't believe people are so down on him so soon. i think he epitomizes the state of the jays right now; lots of potential, just have to put things together.

jamjar
02-21-2012, 09:03 PM
rasmus' career numbers will probably be better than zaun's. gregg's a goof.

too early to tell, though.

BlueJayFanDan
02-21-2012, 09:20 PM
I think Colby will improve, but I don't know if I ever see him reaching the potentail we all feel he has.

BJBirdy
02-21-2012, 09:25 PM
I think Colby will improve, but I don't know if I ever see him reaching the potentail we all feel he has.

I think this is a pretty accurate assessment.

bljay29
02-21-2012, 09:38 PM
Gregg Zaun is a tool and was a horrible ballplayer. The only Jays player I've ever heckled at a game (mind you I was probably 15 or so).

I like Zaun cause he says it how it is, and honestly he is usually right.. When Snider came back from the minors and was hitting a little, and everyone was getting all excited Zaun was the only person I heard that pointed out how he would struggle again and soon..


I have no idea how Colby will do, i believe he will be above average but kinda hopin for better then that

Dol-Fan
02-21-2012, 09:49 PM
I like Zaun cause he says it how it is, and honestly he is usually right.. When Snider came back from the minors and was hitting a little, and everyone was getting all excited Zaun was the only person I heard that pointed out how he would struggle again and soon..


I have no idea how Colby will do, i believe he will be above average but kinda hopin for better then that

No, he says it like he sees in it, and he's usually wrong.

DeRozan10
02-21-2012, 09:56 PM
Zaun was just blasting him on the Bob McCowan show saying he has no hustle.

Zaun is a *******!!

DeRozan10
02-21-2012, 10:00 PM
If Colby can put up the same numbers as he did in 2010, then we will have one hell of a player in CF, and that trade will be anther god damn fantastic deal by AA




The fact is that he has done it before, so there is absolutely no reason why he cant do it again

ah nuts
02-21-2012, 10:03 PM
Zaun on Rasmus = Cherry on Sundin

= :down:

Farsight
02-21-2012, 10:07 PM
There are very few former players that are good at analyzing currently baseball players, and Zaun is not one of them...

mike_noodles
02-21-2012, 11:06 PM
I don't really like Zaun either, but seriously, wtf has Rasmus done yet? Had one good year and that's it. He's gotta prove it to me, so for now I say bust.

3mikee_
02-21-2012, 11:16 PM
Too soon to judge imo.. I'm sure now that he's had an entire offseason/spring training/etc with the Jays our hitting staff will manage to get him out of his horrible approach at the plate. I predict a fairly good season, above average batting like .275 - .280 ish with 20 HRs.

GrantHustle
02-21-2012, 11:32 PM
I'll take a .260-.270 avg....20-25hrs....65-80 rbi's...... a .325 obp with 10-15 sb's and 70 plus runs and ill be happy

jakedajewler
02-21-2012, 11:35 PM
Zaun blasts the jays every single time he is on mcowns show, not sure what his beef is. But he said colby dogged it on some fly balls last year and that he has all the talent in the world but the attitude isn't there and untill the changes he'll never be good

JaysFan87
02-21-2012, 11:38 PM
I don't really like Zaun either, but seriously, wtf has Rasmus done yet? Had one good year and that's it. He's gotta prove it to me, so for now I say bust.

He had a top 5 season for a CF in 2010 and was actually having an above average year last year in STL before he came to Toronto. Hard to call him a bust. Especially at 25.

Dol-Fan
02-21-2012, 11:53 PM
He had a top 5 season for a CF in 2010 and was actually having an above average year last year in STL before he came to Toronto. Hard to call him a bust. Especially at 25.

had a solid year as a rookie in 2009 as well

really the only time in his career that he's been below average was after the trade.

bomber0104
02-22-2012, 12:43 AM
He also displayed an uncharacteristically awful plate approach over that span, drawing just five walks against 39 strikeouts. That will be the first area for Toronto hitting coach Dwayne Murphy to target, but Murphy is the man who helped create Jose Bautista, so there's reason for optimism.

Haha... I wonder why his plate discipline disappeared..

and Murphy is gonna fix it.. lol

our players will continue to strikeout a tonne and have horrible OBPs until that ****ing tool is fired.. that is my only issue with AA

albertajaysfan
02-22-2012, 01:08 AM
Haha... I wonder why his plate discipline disappeared..

and Murphy is gonna fix it.. lol

our players will continue to strikeout a tonne and have horrible OBPs until that ****ing tool is fired.. that is my only issue with AA

agreed. i know he has been good for some players. but you know it was cito who helped bautista, who he is obviously fine without. i hate to throw coaches under the bus but this needs a change.

JaysFan87
02-22-2012, 01:50 AM
me thinks zaun is uneducated about the farm system. Either that or he is pissed at someone in the organization. To criticize the scouting department when every credible source out there is calling the farm system a top 5 that will likely produce top talent is beyond stupid. While everyone has opinions i doubt that he has ever seen a AAA game let alone a AA or A game which makes his opinion (like many here including mine) fairly pointless.

masTOR_shake1
02-22-2012, 03:00 AM
Haha... I wonder why his plate discipline disappeared..

and Murphy is gonna fix it.. lol

our players will continue to strikeout a tonne and have horrible OBPs until that ****ing tool is fired.. that is my only issue with AA

#6 in runs scored in the mlb and #11 in ops in the mlb :shrug: i'd say our offensive approach is hardly the problem. http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/sort/OPS/order/true

phillipmike
02-22-2012, 03:17 AM
If Colby can put up the same numbers as he did in 2010, then we will have one hell of a player in CF, and that trade will be anther god damn fantastic deal by AA


That is the point and a great one. He isnt asked to do something that he has not before and he did not do it too long ago - one season before last. It is more than possible for him to be a useful CF.

The fact is that he has done it before, so there is absolutely no reason why he cant do it again


I don't really like Zaun either, but seriously, wtf has Rasmus done yet? Had one good year and that's it. He's gotta prove it to me, so for now I say bust.

Rasmus has only been an MLB regular for 3 seasons and was very productive in his rookie season with a 2.7 WAR then a good 3.2 WAR season with a 4.3 oWAR.

He has been a productive CF for 2/3 seasons in the MLB. Had an off-year with big change for him - hardly a bust at this point.

GNick
02-22-2012, 07:29 AM
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/cliff_corcoran/02/13/spring.training.preview.al.east/index.html#ixzz1n42dViNp

What are your expectations for Rasmus? Is he going to bust out with a fresh start?, or be a dud? I'm optimistic, I'm saying he bats for .280avg, 20-25 hrs with something like a .310obp.

Rasmus has star talent but what is going on between his ears is the wildcard with him. It can go many ways...how would you know? Overall, he'll have his good stretches here but Marisinick or Gose is long term centerfielder.

wamco
02-22-2012, 10:22 AM
He had a top 5 season for a CF in 2010 and was actually having an above average year last year in STL before he came to Toronto. Hard to call him a bust. Especially at 25.

Best CF OPS in MLB, or at least the league, I believe that year. I'm not sure about the recent "above average" year mantra lately though about his time in STL last year.

It was certainly a massive dissappointment leading to him losing his job and riding the bench before the trade to TO. He had a 753 ops, down over 100 points from where he was 2 years prior.

nithanyo
02-22-2012, 02:48 PM
I dont know why people in here get all butt hurt when a young player gets bashed but cmon. Its the fuquin media. Obviously when you dont perform you get bashed. Just by looking at Rasmus' 2011 numbers Zaun has something to base that off of.

passengershawn
02-22-2012, 03:22 PM
Unless Rasmus loses the 'unteachable' attitude and sideline influence from his meddling dad, I would say he'll be a classic dud. He showed no signs of hustle or positive attitude to want to learn and grow as a player and person.

IF he can mature, then I see him being a .275 22 HR 20 SB guy with near gold glove CF potential. Not a star, but certainly a very solid mlb CF'er. His other #'s would be dependent on where he hits in the lineup.

2009mvp
02-22-2012, 03:28 PM
I don't know why people use dumb terms like 'butt hurt,' but I digress.

I don't see anyone claiming that there was anything redeeming about Rasmus' 2011 season, what I reject is the ******, lazy analysis that goes directly to crap like reading body language and lack of hustle instead of discussing his seemingly broken swing and/or his complete inability to pick up a changeup. It's just such hack sportswriter drivel (even if it isn't coming from a writer), and some of you just love to eat it up. Smiling more and running out pop ups aren't gonna make him a better ballplayer, hell it certainly didn't work for Zaun (hustle+roids was his formula, if anyone was curious).

phillipmike
02-22-2012, 03:35 PM
I don't know why people use dumb terms like 'butt hurt,' but I digress.

I don't see anyone claiming that there was anything redeeming about Rasmus' 2011 season, what I reject is the ******, lazy analysis that goes directly to crap like reading body language and lack of hustle instead of discussing his seemingly broken swing and/or his complete inability to pick up a changeup. It's just such hack sportswriter drivel (even if it isn't coming from a writer), and some of you just love to eat it up. Smiling more and running out pop ups aren't gonna make him a better ballplayer, hell it certainly didn't work for Zaun (hustle+roids was his formula, if anyone was curious).

This.

I have no problem someone reading stats trying to claim a player is no good. But to try to read his body language and claim that he is not going to be an effective MLB player based on that is insane.

statquo
02-22-2012, 04:05 PM
I don't know why people use dumb terms like 'butt hurt,' but I digress.

I don't see anyone claiming that there was anything redeeming about Rasmus' 2011 season, what I reject is the ******, lazy analysis that goes directly to crap like reading body language and lack of hustle instead of discussing his seemingly broken swing and/or his complete inability to pick up a changeup. It's just such hack sportswriter drivel (even if it isn't coming from a writer), and some of you just love to eat it up. Smiling more and running out pop ups aren't gonna make him a better ballplayer, hell it certainly didn't work for Zaun (hustle+roids was his formula, if anyone was curious).

No doubt. I don't know why people say he's a 'headcase'. When I hear headcase, I'm thinking Carlos Zambrono, guys which actual problems. Rasmus has a different personality. I thought Yunel was a headcase too? AA said he's fine with different personalities, as long as the attitude is winning. The guy is 24 in the majors, why the **** wouldn't he want to win? Or try to get better for that matter?

wagnall
02-22-2012, 04:08 PM
Rasmus hopefully can get back to 2010 numbers. But was that a career year for him or what he can do year in year out. I think making a decision on him is a little early. See where he's at by the allstar break, then AA might have to make a decision on him. With Gose hanging in the back ground I would think Ras., if he wants to be here, should realize he is fighting for his job this and for 2013.

Just seems we have a group of guys that we hope will return to years gone performance levels. Lind, Johnson, now Rasmus.

nithanyo
02-22-2012, 04:33 PM
Noone can judge a players hustle just by looking at them. For all we know he could have been the hardest working blue jay out there. But we can all judge his ability to hit and with all the hype that came along with him, he fizzled out real quick.I dont blame Zaun.

The Rasmus/Davis combo was by far the worst offensive output by a blue jays centre fielder in a really really long time.

Canadian hemi
02-22-2012, 04:47 PM
Until he proves differently, he's a Dud to me. I can't count how many times I heard...He has a huge ceiling, or a ton of talent, and yet...they (he) don't produce.

I'm all in giving him a chance to prove it...but..he still has to do it.

Twitchy
02-22-2012, 05:00 PM
Unless Rasmus loses the 'unteachable' attitude and sideline influence from his meddling dad, I would say he'll be a classic dud. He showed no signs of hustle or positive attitude to want to learn and grow as a player and person.

IF he can mature, then I see him being a .275 22 HR 20 SB guy with near gold glove CF potential. Not a star, but certainly a very solid mlb CF'er. His other #'s would be dependent on where he hits in the lineup.

You basically described Shane Victorino's season, and he was one of the top 4 center fielders in the league. That's a star. Or an All Star, if you want to be more specific.

If you're hitting 20 homers and 20 steals as a CF you're pretty much guaranteed to be among the best in any given year.

And I don't know why anybody is judging Rasmus over 30 ****** games. Good or bad.

2009mvp
02-22-2012, 05:11 PM
Noone can judge a players hustle just by looking at them. For all we know he could have been the hardest working blue jay out there. But we can all judge his ability to hit and with all the hype that came along with him, he fizzled out real quick.I dont blame Zaun.

The Rasmus/Davis combo was by far the worst offensive output by a blue jays centre fielder in a really really long time.

No one can judge his hustle, yet you don't blame Zaun for doing EXACTLY THAT?!? Am I missing something? Once again, the issue isn't with him criticizing Rasmus for an altogether sub-par season, it's with him doing it in the laziest, hackiest manner imaginable. If you can't blame him for that then you have some incredibly low standards for the sports media in this country.

nithanyo
02-22-2012, 05:22 PM
No one can judge his hustle, yet you don't blame Zaun for doing EXACTLY THAT?!? Am I missing something? Once again, the issue isn't with him criticizing Rasmus for an altogether sub-par season, it's with him doing it in the laziest, hackiest manner imaginable. If you can't blame him for that then you have some incredibly low standards for the sports media in this country.

Nono i dont think Zaun should judge his hustle. His not his coach/trainer. He doesnt know his work ethic. So Zaun shouldnt be talking about his workout ethic.

But cmon? He hit .173 :speechless: in Toronto which is unnacceptable at any level. You think if Rasmus had the same work ethic and hit .300 we would be having this discussion?

I didnt hear the zaun comments. But he has all the rights to trash a player who hit like a crippled John Mcdonald. He's a part of the Blue Jays media team now.

jakedajewler
02-22-2012, 05:34 PM
I don't know why people use dumb terms like 'butt hurt,' but I digress.

I don't see anyone claiming that there was anything redeeming about Rasmus' 2011 season, what I reject is the ******, lazy analysis that goes directly to crap like reading body language and lack of hustle instead of discussing his seemingly broken swing and/or his complete inability to pick up a changeup. It's just such hack sportswriter drivel (even if it isn't coming from a writer), and some of you just love to eat it up. Smiling more and running out pop ups aren't gonna make him a better ballplayer, hell it certainly didn't work for Zaun (hustle+roids was his formula, if anyone was curious).

Butt hurt is an awesome term, apologize please

2009mvp
02-22-2012, 05:48 PM
Nono i dont think Zaun should judge his hustle. His not his coach/trainer. He doesnt know his work ethic. So Zaun shouldnt be talking about his workout ethic.

But cmon? He hit .173 :speechless: in Toronto which is unnacceptable at any level. You think if Rasmus had the same work ethic and hit .300 we would be having this discussion?

I didnt hear the zaun comments. But he has all the rights to trash a player who hit like a crippled John Mcdonald. He's a part of the Blue Jays media team now.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2012/02/21/pts_zaun_jays_rasmus/?source=video

Basically, he's a great talent, he's a great kid etc etc, but because he 'dogged' a couple of fly balls (in Zaun's eyes, even though AA's been effusive in his praise for Colby's defense) he's basically a bum. Again, I'm all for a guy with interesting opinions even if I don't agree with them, and yeah criticism for a guy who hit as poorly as Rasmus did last year is for the most part warranted, but you gotta come with a better argument than that to justify holding any kind of position in the media. As far as I'm concerned Zaun's a ****ing hack who's already chosen to go with the disgruntled fan shtick this year, look no further than his ridiculous comments about the farm system to see that. There was another case where he could have supported his argument and not looked completely insane (for instance, the lack of truly elite prospects especially at the upper levels), but instead chose to ramble incoherently. I'll say it for the last time, it's not at all the fact that he chose to criticize a Blue Jay player, it's the manner in which he did it.

wagnall
02-22-2012, 06:02 PM
Where is he? Based on Wilners tweet this afternoon he's not at camp yet. I figured he'd be there already early like the rest of the guys?

bomber0104
02-22-2012, 06:02 PM
#6 in runs scored in the mlb and #11 in ops in the mlb :shrug: i'd say our offensive approach is hardly the problem. http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/sort/OPS/order/true

Keep in mind that we play the majority of our games in Hitters parks whether its the Rogers Center or the road games in Fenway, Camden and Yankees stadium.

I just look at guys like Lind and Hill.. especially Hill who went back to his line drive hitting ways as soon as he went to Arizona

town123
02-22-2012, 06:26 PM
Rasmus seems like he is happy with his bank account. He doesn't seem overly eager to rule the world either. Only way I see Colby being a plus guy is if he likes the other guys on the team and buys in to the one for all. Otherwise I think he is unmotivated.

JaysFan87
02-22-2012, 07:10 PM
Where is he? Based on Wilners tweet this afternoon he's not at camp yet. I figured he'd be there already early like the rest of the guys?

Position players dont have to report till saturday. its great that some players have shown up but it means absolutely nothing that he is not there. If he supposed to be there then he would have been there today.

JaysFan87
02-22-2012, 07:12 PM
Rasmus seems like he is happy with his bank account. He doesn't seem overly eager to rule the world either. Only way I see Colby being a plus guy is if he likes the other guys on the team and buys in to the one for all. Otherwise I think he is unmotivated.

Have you spoken to Rasmus?

nithanyo
02-23-2012, 12:33 AM
This is a make or break year for him. Personally i just don't see it. But I'm all in for giving the guy the job. its his to lose

wamco
02-23-2012, 08:20 AM
I'm wondering if his upside is more along the lines of Choo than a superstar.

pebloemer
02-23-2012, 09:05 AM
It would obviously be great if Rasmus turned into a stud and showed his form from a couple years ago, but I'm not losing any sleep over whether he will do that or not. With Marisnick and Gose in the minors, Rasmus is replaceable if he doesn't show us what the coaching staff wants from him. It will be an interesting story to watch this year.

Ace Drivers
02-23-2012, 09:43 AM
It would obviously be great if Rasmus turned into a stud and showed his form from a couple years ago, but I'm not losing any sleep over whether he will do that or not. With Marisnick and Gose in the minors, Rasmus is replaceable if he doesn't show us what the coaching staff wants from him. It will be an interesting story to watch this year.

Agreed...

I am looking for him to recover from the sophmore slump...I know not actually a sophmore...but that's kinda what I chalk his season up to. He will be given every chance to prove he belongs, maybe more than he should...but why wouldn't you give him a chance he is only 24.

2 other points, doesn't seem like anyone is giving any credence to the hand injury he suffered shortly after coming to TO...in his first 10 games or so if I remember correctly, he was actually coming back into his old form and then he hurt his hand...which undoubtedly affected the rest of his season. So I'm certainly willing to give him a pass to see what he can do.

Secondly, I know it looks like he's lazy in the field...but I don't think that's the case. He has a very long stride which tends to make people look slower when they are running...but I don't think anyone can debate he was better in Centre than Davis was...Davis is a burner, but he has absolutely no idea how to read a flyball...we lost games because of it. I feel like Colby makes plays look easy, where as Davis made every ball he caught look like a highlight reel play...and more often they were not, he just had no idea where to go!

mike_noodles
02-23-2012, 09:58 AM
He had a top 5 season for a CF in 2010 and was actually having an above average year last year in STL before he came to Toronto. Hard to call him a bust. Especially at 25.

Actually, no, not even close. CF's that were better in 2010 include Hamilton, Wells, Kemp, Gardiner, McCutchen, Pierre, Young and Carlos Gonzalez. 23 HR is nothing special, OPS was decent but that's it.


had a solid year as a rookie in 2009 as well

really the only time in his career that he's been below average was after the trade.

I suggest you go back and look, he's been below average since the all star break in 2010, only 7 HR's after the break, OPS under .800.



That is the point and a great one. He isnt asked to do something that he has not before and he did not do it too long ago - one season before last. It is more than possible for him to be a useful CF.

The fact is that he has done it before, so there is absolutely no reason why he cant do it again



Rasmus has only been an MLB regular for 3 seasons and was very productive in his rookie season with a 2.7 WAR then a good 3.2 WAR season with a 4.3 oWAR.

He has been a productive CF for 2/3 seasons in the MLB. Had an off-year with big change for him - hardly a bust at this point.

Okay, rookie year was alright, but really nothing special. WAR means absolutely nothing to me since it's a calculation vs an arbitrary number.

Basically boils down to, he played very well for 3 months of a 3 year career and people think he's the best thing since sliced bread. There were more people who doubted Bautista using a bigger sample size. Sorry guys, for me, he's gotta prove it.

AA09-?
02-23-2012, 09:58 AM
Rasmus seems like he is happy with his bank account. He doesn't seem overly eager to rule the world either. Only way I see Colby being a plus guy is if he likes the other guys on the team and buys in to the one for all. Otherwise I think he is unmotivated.

Watch what you say, you're throwing yourself to the wolves.

miller74
02-23-2012, 10:04 AM
I dont mind Zaun, i just think he has to realize that not every player needs to hustle they but off to be a major league, some (unlike Zaun) actually have talent.

miller74
02-23-2012, 10:06 AM
Rasmus seems like he is happy with his bank account. He doesn't seem overly eager to rule the world either. Only way I see Colby being a plus guy is if he likes the other guys on the team and buys in to the one for all. Otherwise I think he is unmotivated.

For a MLB player Rasmus hardly has a large bank account, i dont believe hes even made 1mil in a season? Clearly not driven by money.

Look at the NHL James Neal was traded last Feb, had 1 goal for the remainder of the season. Came back with a full camp, got settled and now a great goal scorer. Just my optimism on it all.

Ace Drivers
02-23-2012, 10:30 AM
The biggest thing in all of this might be Murphy, and Farrell...LaRussa, is known for his being the baseball version of Mike Keenan...

And professional athletes have proven time and time again that the berating approach will only last for so long...if you are told "you suck" everyday...you start to believe it.

When a star like Pujols jumps ship...you are trading away a young stud...perhaps its not the players. When a Manager/Coach loses a team they are sunk...and Tony's now without a job...don't get me wrong, he's obviously a good manager given the success he's had...I just think Farrell's/Murphy's more patient approach with an emphasis on actual teaching will help him

AA09-?
02-23-2012, 10:33 AM
The biggest thing in all of this might be Murphy, and Farrell...LaRussa, is known for his being the baseball version of Mike Keenan...

And professional athletes have proven time and time again that the berating approach will only last for so long...if you are told "you suck" everyday...you start to believe it.

When a star like Pujols jumps ship...you are trading away a young stud...perhaps its not the players. When a Manager/Coach loses a team they are sunk...and Tony's now without a job...don't get me wrong, he's obviously a good manager given the success he's had...I just think Farrell's/Murphy's more patient approach with an emphasis on actual teaching will help him

By choice.

Ace Drivers
02-23-2012, 10:34 AM
Didn't like Zaun as a player...hate him as a commentator. He was a loudmouth as a player, he's a loudmouth as a commentator...

He's not always wrong, I just can';t deal with the one size too small flashy suits, swollen face, and "I'm the best" delivery...

Show a bit of humility for crying out loud!

AA09-?
02-23-2012, 10:37 AM
Didn't like Zaun as a player...hate him as a commentator. He was a loudmouth as a player, he's a loudmouth as a commentator...

He's not always wrong, I just can';t deal with the one size too small flashy suits, swollen face, and "I'm the best" delivery...

Show a bit of humility for crying out loud!

You'd have a swollen face if you drank like a sailor and had a wad of chewin' tobacco in your cheek all of the time.:D

Ace Drivers
02-23-2012, 10:39 AM
By choice.

It really wasn't a choice...management out of respect allowed him to retire...but everyone saw it, he was loonie by the end of last season.

I really don't think it was a choice at all...happens all the time...

Impossible to substantiate...but they needed a change.

And I wouldn't be surprised to see him in a RedSox uni by the end of the season, after the players kick Valentine off the "bus" they are riding in spring training...

Ace Drivers
02-23-2012, 10:41 AM
You'd have a swollen face if you drank like a sailor and had a wad of chewin' tobacco in your cheek all of the time.:D

Do you have a camera in my office?...hoark...splat!

AA09-?
02-23-2012, 10:41 AM
It really wasn't a choice...management out of respect allowed him to retire...but everyone saw it, he was loonie by the end of last season.

I really don't think it was a choice at all...happens all the time...

Impossible to substantiate...but they needed a change.

And I wouldn't be surprised to see him in a RedSox uni by the end of the season, after the players kick Valentine off the "bus" they are riding in spring training...

So you're assuming it was management that pushed him out the door?

AA09-?
02-23-2012, 10:42 AM
Do you have a camera in my office?...hoark...splat!

:surrender:

phillipmike
02-23-2012, 10:50 AM
Okay, rookie year was alright, but really nothing special. WAR means absolutely nothing to me since it's a calculation vs an arbitrary number.

Basically boils down to, he played very well for 3 months of a 3 year career and people think he's the best thing since sliced bread. There were more people who doubted Bautista using a bigger sample size. Sorry guys, for me, he's gotta prove it.

Based on what?

In his rookie year he had three separate months with an OBP of .330 or better out of 6 if you dont count October as he played 4 games. In 2010 he had 4 out of 6 .330 or better OBP with a decent August of .317. Last season was no doubt a down year for him but he started hot with his first two months of .370 OBP and average .430 SLG between the two. He had a bad June but kept his SLG at .416 but that was not enough and he a La Russa lost touch and was getting benched and that is where trade talks started.

I would say he had 9 good months to his career out of 18. But overall he had two very respectable seasons considering his age and the position he plays.

Rasmus is not a God or an All-star. But he has the tools to be an above average CF and he showed that over the course of two seasons vs his one bad one. He had promise to show that over a third but fell off mid-season that plagued him throughout the year and it could be his own doing but i think trade talks, injuries and moving to the hardest division in baseball and into a different league had something to do with it. But i see a young player with a lot of talent and with a full season as a Jay he can be good. He has been good more than he has been bad - he should rebound.

Bautista is a special case he was a utility player for about 6 seasons in the majors and turned into an MVP candidate. Rasmus has been one of the league's top prospects and has had 2 good seasons in the majors with his third being terrible. I cant convince you that he is not a bust with past numbers so it is best to watch him play out the year to see what he can do. But he has done enough to in the majors to be given a shot to start and become your starting CF over anyone else on the team.

Ace Drivers
02-23-2012, 11:13 AM
So you're assuming it was management that pushed him out the door?

basically...

2009mvp
02-23-2012, 11:22 AM
Actually, no, not even close. CF's that were better in 2010 include Hamilton, Wells, Kemp, Gardiner, McCutchen, Pierre, Young and Carlos Gonzalez. 23 HR is nothing special, OPS was decent but that's it.



I suggest you go back and look, he's been below average since the all star break in 2010, only 7 HR's after the break, OPS under .800.




Okay, rookie year was alright, but really nothing special. WAR means absolutely nothing to me since it's a calculation vs an arbitrary number.

Basically boils down to, he played very well for 3 months of a 3 year career and people think he's the best thing since sliced bread. There were more people who doubted Bautista using a bigger sample size. Sorry guys, for me, he's gotta prove it.

What's that, like 100 combined games at CF between those guys? They're not center fielders. Also, Kemp was ****ing awful in 2010.

phillipmike
02-23-2012, 12:08 PM
What's that, like 100 combined games at CF between those guys? They're not center fielders. Also, Kemp was ****ing awful in 2010.

This.

I must have missed that.

Gonzalez played 68 games in CF.
Hamilton played 40 games in CF.
Gardner played 44 games in CF.
If we are talking about Juan Pierre then he 0 games in CF in 2010.

Rasmus' 2010 line - .276/.361/.498/.859.

Matt Kemp - .249/.310/.450/.760
Vernon Wells - .273/.331/.515/.847
Chris Young - .257/.341/.452/.793 Or is it Delmon who played 0 games in CF?

And i would argue that Andrew McCutchen's numbers werent much better than Rasmus if it was at all.

Andrew McCuthen - .286/.365/.449/.814

Even out of your list of CFers non-qualified CFers Rasmus had the 4th best OBP and 5th best SLG and 3rd best OPS. That looks like a top 5 CF.

JaysFan87
02-23-2012, 01:24 PM
Actually, no, not even close. CF's that were better in 2010 include Hamilton, Wells, Kemp, Gardiner, McCutchen, Pierre, Young and Carlos Gonzalez. 23 HR is nothing special, OPS was decent but that's it.

Huh? Kemp were below average hitters in 2010. Wells had a good season but Rasmus had a significantly better OBP and both had the same slg%. Gardiner was good but displayed zero power as he had an slg% LOWER than his OBP. And really Juan Pierre?

Rasmus was 4th in SLG% and 5th in OBP in 2010 (among CF). If he can do that over the next 5 years that would make him a perennial all-star

JaysFan87
02-23-2012, 01:28 PM
What's that, like 100 combined games at CF between those guys? They're not center fielders. Also, Kemp was ****ing awful in 2010.

But he had 28 HRs!!!

nithanyo
02-23-2012, 01:30 PM
I dont mind Zaun, i just think he has to realize that not every player needs to hustle they but off to be a major league, some (unlike Zaun) actually have talent.

I dunno bout that. you could be albert pujols but what kind of examples are you setting for the young guys.

secondly its not like Rasmus is overflowing with talent. If you look at his numbers he had the worst numbers by a blue jays CF as far as i can remember. We're talking before the days of Vernon Wells, Jose Cruz jr., Otis Nixon and even Devon White. Come to think about it we were always pretty strong at centre field.

Kelly Gruber
02-23-2012, 01:32 PM
You can argue about Rasmus' MLB numbers all day long and get nowhere. He was a ML MVP and one of the top prospects in baseball. At 25 he has not peaked. He has the talent, no questioning that. What it boils down to is can he put it together. This season will go a long way to detirmining that.

I have my concerns about Colby. He's definitely not the happiest kid I've ever seen, doesn't seem like much, but hard to get a smile out of the kid. Is he happy to be a Blue Jay? I don't know. Even if he's not, he's not going anywhere and it's in his best interest to show up, have a good approach and play baseball. A big season would vault his career to new heights.

There are a lot of question marks here that his previous stats won't answer. He's coming in as a full time CFer with no excuses left. The only thing that's going to answer the question ("stud or dud") is the 2012 MLB season.

2009mvp
02-23-2012, 01:46 PM
I dunno bout that. you could be albert pujols but what kind of examples are you setting for the young guys.

secondly its not like Rasmus is overflowing with talent. If you look at his numbers he had the worst numbers by a blue jays CF as far as i can remember. We're talking before the days of Vernon Wells, Jose Cruz jr., Otis Nixon and even Devon White. Come to think about it we were always pretty strong at centre field.

Except for those two season Wells barely plateaued the .700 OPS mark, right? Also, defense matters. Nixon and Wells were by no stretch of the imagination good center fielders defensively.

LuckyLuke2
02-23-2012, 02:43 PM
Way too early to determine this. Rasmus is young and has top potential. Let him play a full season here first.

AA09-?
02-23-2012, 03:22 PM
basically...

Do you know the old saying about making assumptions???

nithanyo
02-23-2012, 03:34 PM
Except for those two season Wells barely plateaued the .700 OPS mark, right? Also, defense matters. Nixon and Wells were by no stretch of the imagination good center fielders defensively.

Wells' 3 gold gloves disagree lol. Plus even the worst offensive seasons by Wells was better than Rasmus' 2011.

I really want Rasmus to succeed but AA better have a backup plan. Heres hoping Anthony Gose is the real deal:pray:

Bombtista
02-23-2012, 04:20 PM
Wells' 3 gold gloves disagree lol. Plus even the worst offensive seasons by Wells was better than Rasmus' 2011.

I really want Rasmus to succeed but AA better have a backup plan. Heres hoping Anthony Gose is the real deal:pray:

Well at this point Gose is the obvious backup plan if Rasmus doesn't find his game. Im assuming Rasmus will still have to move positions anyway once Gose is ready as that part of his game has been ready for a while.

Gose' ability to hit is more in question than Ramus' at least in my opinion.

phillipmike
02-23-2012, 04:41 PM
Well at this point Gose is the obvious backup plan if Rasmus doesn't find his game. Im assuming Rasmus will still have to move positions anyway once Gose is ready as that part of his game has been ready for a while.

Gose' ability to hit is more in question than Ramus' at least in my opinion.

You got to change your pick of Votto. Get him in the new logo.

Twitchy
02-23-2012, 05:13 PM
Wells' 3 gold gloves disagree lol.

I would think Palmeiro's win of a gold glove at first when he spent the season at DH would be enough to prove that gold gloves are pretty worthless.


Plus even the worst offensive seasons by Wells was better than Rasmus' 2011.

Rasmus = 688 OPS this season
Wells = 660 OPS

And when you adjust for the fact that offence isn't what it used to be a few years ago, Rasmus' 2011 was better than Wells in 2009 and 2007.

Also worth pointing out that Rasmus in 2010 was just as good, if not better than Wells in 2003, 2006 and 2008. Rasmus best year matches right up with Vernon's best years.


I really want Rasmus to succeed

Really? Because virtually everything you've written here sounds like you've already given up on him.

fatkev78
02-23-2012, 05:43 PM
JF just stated Colby has scrapped his exagerated leg kick.

JaysFan87
02-23-2012, 05:46 PM
Wells' 3 gold gloves disagree lol. Plus even the worst offensive seasons by Wells was better than Rasmus' 2011.

I really want Rasmus to succeed but AA better have a backup plan. Heres hoping Anthony Gose is the real deal:pray:

Gold Gloves? Really?

nithanyo
02-23-2012, 05:52 PM
Gold Gloves? Really?

thought they gave those out to those who are good defensively at their positions.:confused: Maybe im wrong

StealingSigns
02-23-2012, 05:54 PM
thought they gave those out to those who are good defensively at their positions.:confused: Maybe im wrong

The Gold Glove award is a farce.

rapsjaysfan88
02-23-2012, 06:18 PM
omg rasmus is screwed! d murphy is in charge of fixing his swing. I am terrified....

town123
02-23-2012, 06:42 PM
Have you spoken to Rasmus?

No.

I do however make a 'good living' evaluating ambition. We're all on this site to give our opinion, are we not? Giving our opinion on prospects who we haven't seen live, is ofcourse comical and subject to whose professional opinion we prefer, but having an opinion on somebody you have seen for a few years is a study. Could I be wrong on Colby? Probably. Grain of salt pal, btw, I enjoy your opinion on most things.

TorontoSportFan
02-23-2012, 08:03 PM
I think eventually Rasmus becomes 275-285avg. / 18-22 hrs / obp 350-360 but not this year.

This year 255 / 15 / 330

wagnall
02-23-2012, 08:13 PM
Rasmus will be as good as HE wants to be! You don't get this far without having the talent. If he really wants to be here and he is proud to be a Blue Jay and is willing to give that Bautista team attitude, he will do just fine. If he wants to be elsewhere, I would think we'll know by the all star break.
I hope he does well, because if Gose is the hier apparant to CF in 2013 and Snider/Thames aren't the answer in LF, a very good Rasmus could be moved to LF.

JaysFan87
02-23-2012, 08:22 PM
No.

I do however make a 'good living' evaluating ambition. We're all on this site to give our opinion, are we not? Giving our opinion on prospects who we haven't seen live, is ofcourse comical and subject to whose professional opinion we prefer, but having an opinion on somebody you have seen for a few years is a study. Could I be wrong on Colby? Probably. Grain of salt pal, btw, I enjoy your opinion on most things.


Its fine to give opinions about things except anything to do with their personal life. The fact is no one here knows anything personal about these guys makes their opinion effectively useless. At least when we are here debating about performance we have concrete proof of what tehy actually accomplished. WHen we start speaking to their personal life thats when the discussion takes a direction where its no longer an educated opinion instead its a shot in the dark based on nothing concrete.

The fact is that we as fans (unless otherwise noted) having no idea about the personality of these players. None whatsoever. That is why I'm very skeptical when people say thinkgs like "he's in it for the money" or "he doesn't care". They might be right but those opinions are typically baseless. Thats just me and I guess thats my opinion but you judging an athlete is almost the same as me judging your personal life based on what you write here. I "know" people on these boards based on their screen names and what they write, but I know jackshit about who they actually are what they are like as people. ANyways this has always been a discussion that has no ending so Ill leave it at that.

And thank you for the above compliment as I think everyone (for the most part) here make good conversational points!

JaysFan87
02-23-2012, 08:23 PM
thought they gave those out to those who are good defensively at their positions.:confused: Maybe im wrong

Rafeal Palmero won a gold glove at 1B with 30 odd games played at that position. That alone should disqualify gold gloves as anything more than a popularity contest.

wagnall
02-23-2012, 08:29 PM
^^ good post, agree 100%. We don't even know if who we are talking to is male or female. Call me old fashion, but I would hate to call a female poster a ****in Douche Bag, which is why I never get into personal attacks, waste of energy and usually unwinnable no matter how long you go at it!

Farsight
02-23-2012, 09:36 PM
Only in recent times, has the gold glove award become better. However, they still get it wrong, such as Jeter winning in 2010 and others

wamco
02-23-2012, 10:24 PM
It really wasn't a choice...management out of respect allowed him to retire...but everyone saw it, he was loonie by the end of last season.

I really don't think it was a choice at all...happens all the time...

Impossible to substantiate...but they needed a change.

And I wouldn't be surprised to see him in a RedSox uni by the end of the season, after the players kick Valentine off the "bus" they are riding in spring training...

-THEY JUST WON THE WORLD SERIES

mike_noodles
02-23-2012, 10:45 PM
This.

I must have missed that.

Gonzalez played 68 games in CF.
Hamilton played 40 games in CF.
Gardner played 44 games in CF.
If we are talking about Juan Pierre then he 0 games in CF in 2010.

Rasmus' 2010 line - .276/.361/.498/.859.

Matt Kemp - .249/.310/.450/.760
Vernon Wells - .273/.331/.515/.847
Chris Young - .257/.341/.452/.793 Or is it Delmon who played 0 games in CF?

And i would argue that Andrew McCutchen's numbers werent much better than Rasmus if it was at all.

Andrew McCuthen - .286/.365/.449/.814

Even out of your list of CFers non-qualified CFers Rasmus had the 4th best OBP and 5th best SLG and 3rd best OPS. That looks like a top 5 CF.

Okay, so you can take a couple out, but you could also easily argue that both Bourn and Pagan also had better years. You guys are all forgetting about SB's as well. Rasmus was not very good stealing 12/20. I will take the .340 + Obp and the 35+ bags at over 80% over Rasmus's 2010 also.

So still for 2010 I would take Wells, Chris Young (with his 28/35 SB's and similar power), McCutchen (33/43 SB's), Bourn, Pagan, .

And I didn't check to see games played at the position, just assumed Pierre had played a little CF that year at least, but again I would take 68 bags at 79% with a .340+ obp over Rasmus' 2010, what kind of fool wouldn't want that in their lineup?

nithanyo
02-23-2012, 10:49 PM
Rafeal Palmero won a gold glove at 1B with 30 odd games played at that position. That alone should disqualify gold gloves as anything more than a popularity contest.

But was a 25 year old vernon wells playing for "that canadian team" with corey koskie batting behind him really as popular as Palmero. Wells was one of the best fielding outfielders when he won his gold gloves. you cant really deny that.

Secondly I agree with you on us not being able to judge a players ambition hustle etc. but his numbers in 2011 were horrendous. Were talking probably the worst hitter on the team.
Comparing him with one of the best blue jay outfielder(and we've had a bunch of good outfielders) is a little overboard, no? Call me old school but i stick to looking at a guys, BA. HR. and OBP. For god sakes this guy has never hit above .300 in any level of ball. (except for 78 games in single A) i dont have high expectations.

Im pulling for this kid and want him to succed but im also a realist. By no means do i expect him to be the saviour for this team

nithanyo
02-23-2012, 10:56 PM
Rasmus will be as good as HE wants to be! You don't get this far without having the talent. If he really wants to be here and he is proud to be a Blue Jay and is willing to give that Bautista team attitude, he will do just fine. If he wants to be elsewhere, I would think we'll know by the all star break.
I hope he does well, because if Gose is the hier apparant to CF in 2013 and Snider/Thames aren't the answer in LF, a very good Rasmus could be moved to LF.

By saying that arent u pretty much supporting Zaun? I guess he didnt want to be very good when he hit .173 for us:p

2009mvp
02-23-2012, 11:05 PM
But was a 25 year old vernon wells playing for "that canadian team" with corey koskie batting behind him really as popular as Palmero. Wells was one of the best fielding outfielders when he won his gold gloves. you cant really deny that.

Secondly I agree with you on us not being able to judge a players ambition hustle etc. but his numbers in 2011 were horrendous. Were talking probably the worst hitter on the team.
Comparing him with one of the best blue jay outfielder(and we've had a bunch of good outfielders) is a little overboard, no? Call me old school but i stick to looking at a guys, BA. HR. and OBP. For god sakes this guy has never hit above .300 in any level of ball. (except for 78 games in single A) i dont have high expectations.

Im pulling for this kid and want him to succed but im also a realist. By no means do i expect him to be the saviour for this team

:laugh2: You value OBP yet he of the .323 career OBP is supposedly the gold standard in center? Please.

2009mvp
02-23-2012, 11:07 PM
Okay, so you can take a couple out, but you could also easily argue that both Bourn and Pagan also had better years. You guys are all forgetting about SB's as well. Rasmus was not very good stealing 12/20. I will take the .340 + Obp and the 35+ bags at over 80% over Rasmus's 2010 also.

So still for 2010 I would take Wells, Chris Young (with his 28/35 SB's and similar power), McCutchen (33/43 SB's), Bourn, Pagan, .

And I didn't check to see games played at the position, just assumed Pierre had played a little CF that year at least, but again I would take 68 bags at 79% with a .340+ obp over Rasmus' 2010, what kind of fool wouldn't want that in their lineup?

Most teams, apparently. If anyone really valued him you'd think they'd have topped the mega deal he ended up signing with the Phils.

nithanyo
02-23-2012, 11:15 PM
:laugh2: You value OBP yet he of the .323 career OBP is supposedly the gold standard in center? Please.

Ya Wells couldn't take a walk but at least he was able to hit it at a decent clip with very good power might i add.

In 2011 Ramus couldn't do any of that

wagnall
02-23-2012, 11:33 PM
By saying that arent u pretty much supporting Zaun? I guess he didnt want to be very good when he hit .173 for us:p


Could have been worse, he could of hit .172 :whistle:

I only listen to Zaun for a few laughs. But most of the time all he says is :bla:

mike_noodles
02-24-2012, 12:03 AM
Most teams, apparently. If anyone really valued him you'd think they'd have topped the mega deal he ended up signing with the Phils.

Well obviously he had fallen off since his heyday with the Marlins, and I don't think anyone realistically thought he could do it again, however it was still a pretty good season.

JaysFan87
02-24-2012, 12:35 AM
But was a 25 year old vernon wells playing for "that canadian team" with corey koskie batting behind him really as popular as Palmero. Wells was one of the best fielding outfielders when he won his gold gloves. you cant really deny that.


Sometimes they do get it right (once) but then the discussion becomes "oh he won it last year? well then I guess he deserves it this year. He has to be the best defender, remember that play?...yea he is a gold glover". For **** sakes Derek Jeter has won multiple gold gloves and has not deserved many of them especially in 2010. Im sorry gold gloves have lost their shine a long time ago,





Secondly I agree with you on us not being able to judge a players ambition hustle etc. but his numbers in 2011 were horrendous. Were talking probably the worst hitter on the team.
Comparing him with one of the best blue jay outfielder(and we've had a bunch of good outfielders) is a little overboard, no? Call me old school but i stick to looking at a guys, BA. HR. and OBP. For god sakes this guy has never hit above .300 in any level of ball. (except for 78 games in single A) i dont have high expectations.

Im pulling for this kid and want him to succed but im also a realist. By no means do i expect him to be the saviour for this team

Rasmus 2010 OBP has better than any one of Wells' season. I dont know how you can say you value OBP when Wells' was below average in getting on base.


Whatever you seem to have made your opinion on Rasmus after 30 games last year so there is no point in having this conversation.

nithanyo
02-24-2012, 01:39 AM
Sometimes they do get it right (once) but then the discussion becomes "oh he won it last year? well then I guess he deserves it this year. He has to be the best defender, remember that play?...yea he is a gold glover". For **** sakes Derek Jeter has won multiple gold gloves and has not deserved many of them especially in 2010. Im sorry gold gloves have lost their shine a long time ago,






Rasmus 2010 OBP has better than any one of Wells' season. I dont know how you can say you value OBP when Wells' was below average in getting on base.


Whatever you seem to have made your opinion on Rasmus after 30 games last year so there is no point in having this conversation.

u seem to overvalue obp(which is a solid stat) but Rasmus doesn't hit for average or power like wells. (like i said, he has never hit above .300 outside of Single A ball) Furthermore even the OBP was missing from Rasmus' game last year. I would be glad if he can bring his on base up even if he does hit below .200.

You seem to have made up you're mind after 1 good season which was 2 years ago. Atleast I'm looking at more recent stats.

2009mvp
02-24-2012, 02:45 AM
Yes, hitting .300 is the benchmark. Hello, 1990!

nithanyo
02-24-2012, 03:40 AM
Yes, hitting .300 is the benchmark. Hello, 1990!

LMAO it really is. and its 2012. Its been proven that being a .300 hitter career wise gets you more money. FOR A REASON. let me see if i can find the article

being a .300 sets u in an elite class. it also helps a player mentally as well.

http://deadspin.com/5747728/why-there-are-more-300-hitters-than-299-hitters-and-why-it-matters

So technically. YA it still is a bench mark. if you're a carer .300 you are considered elite

Twitchy
02-24-2012, 08:09 AM
u seem to overvalue obp(which is a solid stat) but Rasmus doesn't hit for average or power like wells.

Actually their career OBPs are identical and Wells has an advantage of 10 or so Isolated Power over his career. So in the end, they've been fairly similar players. They just go about it in different ways.


(like i said, he has never hit above .300 outside of Single A ball) Furthermore even the OBP was missing from Rasmus' game last year. I would be glad if he can bring his on base up even if he does hit below .200.


And you seem to keep ignoring the fact Rasmus hit 246/332/420 before he was traded. I would think how he did in 94 games is more meaningful than what he did in 30~. And the 246/332/420 line would have made him a top 10 CF.

You talk about valuing recent history, that's about as recent as it gets. I don't know why everybody forgets that he got injured this season. From July 31 to his last game in August he had a 720 OPS (which was basically all power, as he refused to get on base for some reason). It was when he came back from his injury in the middle of September, with no minor league games to get back into playing shape, that Rasmus flailed at everything (283 OPS).

That one stretch is why Rasmus looks so bad. He was showing signs of life (even without the OBP) and then he gets injured and his timing is out of whack. Real big surprise someone would struggle here.

JaysFan87
02-24-2012, 09:06 AM
LMAO it really is. and its 2012. Its been proven that being a .300 hitter career wise gets you more money. FOR A REASON. let me see if i can find the article

being a .300 sets u in an elite class. it also helps a player mentally as well.

http://deadspin.com/5747728/why-there-are-more-300-hitters-than-299-hitters-and-why-it-matters

So technically. YA it still is a bench mark. if you're a carer .300 you are considered elite

Evan Longoria and his career .274/.360/.515 career batting line would like to speak to you.

JaysFan87
02-24-2012, 09:08 AM
u seem to overvalue obp(which is a solid stat) but Rasmus doesn't hit for average or power like wells. (like i said, he has never hit above .300 outside of Single A ball) Furthermore even the OBP was missing from Rasmus' game last year. I would be glad if he can bring his on base up even if he does hit below .200.

You seem to have made up you're mind after 1 good season which was 2 years ago. Atleast I'm looking at more recent stats.

No i have not. But this is going no where.

wamco
02-24-2012, 09:18 AM
longoria slugs over 500, is like 26 , and plays great defense though as well which makes up for not being a 300 hitter (yet). His BAPIP last year was very low as well. This should be a huge season for him.

2009mvp
02-24-2012, 11:33 AM
LMAO it really is. and its 2012. Its been proven that being a .300 hitter career wise gets you more money. FOR A REASON. let me see if i can find the article

being a .300 sets u in an elite class. it also helps a player mentally as well.

http://deadspin.com/5747728/why-there-are-more-300-hitters-than-299-hitters-and-why-it-matters

So technically. YA it still is a bench mark. if you're a carer .300 you are considered elite

For absolutely no reason, you mean, which was kinda the point of that article. Guess that flew right over your head.

Ace Drivers
02-24-2012, 01:03 PM
Do you know the old saying about making assumptions???

I do...but that's beauty of a forum like this...its hard to make an *** out of you and me when we are anonymous!

2009mvp
02-24-2012, 01:57 PM
I'm sure someone will write a full article soon which'll be much easier than posting tweet by tweet, but by the sounds of Rasmus' little media scrum today the Jays' clubhouse is a much friendlier environment for young players than some other places. He seems to understand the kind of opportunity he's getting here, no one's dwelling on last season's failures but they do expect him to produce going forward. Pretty exciting stuff.

Ace Drivers
02-24-2012, 02:17 PM
This year 255 / 15 / 330

If he consistently posted those numbers over the next few years, and patrolled centre field like a legit Gold Glove...I'm fine with it...

The reality of it is that not even the Yanks/Sox or some other power house can field a line-up 1 - 9 that is 280+/25+/380

And the numbers above are certainly respectable, especially when surrounded by 3 or 4 guys who do hit 280+/25+/380...and I can think of two who should do it on our team, and possibly another 2 or 3 who can do it...

Ace Drivers
02-24-2012, 02:21 PM
And if I'm a 25 year old professional athlete who had the troubles Colby had last year...darn right I'm excited about being a Bluejay.

And I'm not being homer when I say this...most exciting young franchise in all of MLB!

We are as close as we've been since the rings, and I for one think we will make MAJOR noise this year...

If not...let's trade Colby and call Francona!

nstojic
02-24-2012, 02:28 PM
small davidi piece on rasmus


Smiling, at ease, and with a shaggy new mane pouring out from his cap, Colby Rasmus very much seems like a new man this spring.

And the 25-year-old centre-fielder, someone who will very much be a focal point for the Toronto Blue Jays this season, attributes that to a comfort level with his new club he never had with his old one.

read on... (read on...)

nstojic
02-24-2012, 02:58 PM
barry davis's twitter


John Farrell says you can expect some major adjustments to Rasmus' swing this year. A few flaws were corrected in off season.

Colby Rasmus meets the media. Seems like a completely different person. Much happier now.

Rasmus "last year I was beat up mentally, my confidence was down. Sometimes I worried about things I shouldn't have been.

Rasmus "in St louis I wasn't relaxed. I was worried about messing up. I got stressed out and my confidence wasn't there"

Rasmus "my last days in St louis it got crazy. Fans got upset with me, banging heads with coaches. I just wasn't comfortable"

Rasmus "you know when you mess up, I don't need people getting down my throat abt it. The added pressure ate me up and it showed"

Rasmus. "Problem to begin with was getting too much advice from too many different sides. Didn't know which way to go"

Rasmus "I was out there with no emotion. Felt like everything I did was wrong thing."

Rasmus on being with young #bluejays core "it won't be like in st louis where I was the young puppy and everyone wants to teach me tricks

Rasmus "now I have my routine with my swing and I'll stick to it. If it doesn't work I can go home happy, knowing I stuck with it"

Rasmus "St louis media there were always on me. I guess I'm an easy target because I'm a nice guy"

i don't know... on the surface, these words come off like a coddled, arrogant, brat who can never be criticized for anything cause he'll 'ostrich', bury his head in the sand and pout... yes, I think our team/environment will jive better with him but I'm not big on guys who only wanna be told how awesome they are, when they're not performing like it :shrug: call me old-fashioned

2009mvp
02-24-2012, 03:05 PM
Sounds like he was just overwhelmed. Overly defensive, yeah, but for the most part I'd say it was just a ****** environment for a guy in his situation. They clearly expected a nice smooth, linear progression into a superstar and that's just not the way things always happen in baseball. The lack of patience from the organization/media/fans sounds like his biggest knock on St. Louis, now that none of those should really be a problem here it's time to deliver.

Shifty1 69
02-24-2012, 03:35 PM
barry davis's twitter
i don't know... on the surface, these words come off like a coddled, arrogant, brat who can never be criticized for anything cause he'll 'ostrich', bury his head in the sand and pout... yes, I think our team/environment will jive better with him but I'm not big on guys who only wanna be told how awesome they are, when they're not performing like it :shrug: call me old-fashioned

Sounds to me like a kid who was badgered into self doubt. It would seem he was under a lot of pressure from all angles. I find it exciting that he is acknowledging this, giving valid reasoning for struggles (anyone whos ever played any decent baseball or even softball knows how easy it is to fall off a cliff with the bat when something in your swing is messed and confidence is a massive difference maker in the batters box) and seems to be facing it head on.

The kid has special talents I am shocked at how many people have just given up on him. I cant wait to see what he can do. He can put up excellent #s for a CF, especially hitting at the Rogers Centre.
I am also excited to see KJ looking like he may be the #2 hitter. He can be quite good especially if he reverses the trend of chasing more balls... hitting in the 2hole with the sole job of getting on in front of Bautista would lend itself to that mindset.

There is a reason to be excited about this team, Rasmus is a huge part of that.

AA09-?
02-24-2012, 03:38 PM
I do...but that's beauty of a forum like this...its hard to make an *** out of you and me when we are anonymous!

No it's not that hard.

AA09-?
02-24-2012, 03:46 PM
barry davis's twitter




i don't know... on the surface, these words come off like a coddled, arrogant, brat who can never be criticized for anything cause he'll 'ostrich', bury his head in the sand and pout... yes, I think our team/environment will jive better with him but I'm not big on guys who only wanna be told how awesome they are, when they're not performing like it :shrug: call me old-fashioned

I think you're right. I hope he's happy and batting with a clear head, but judging by his comments he seems somewhat fragile.

AA09-?
02-24-2012, 03:46 PM
I guess his body language wasn't lying?

Ace Drivers
02-24-2012, 03:47 PM
barry davis's twitter




i don't know... on the surface, these words come off like a coddled, arrogant, brat who can never be criticized for anything cause he'll 'ostrich', bury his head in the sand and pout... yes, I think our team/environment will jive better with him but I'm not big on guys who only wanna be told how awesome they are, when they're not performing like it :shrug: call me old-fashioned

I look at those comments and I think...wow, talk about a guy who wears his heart on his sleeve, those types of responses from professional athletes impress me...whether I agree or not, it's refreshing not to hear the standard responses ala Hockey...

Speaking of Hockey, his responses point exactly to what I suggested in a previous post LaRussa = Keenan...you can only be told you suck so many times before you start believing it

Ace Drivers
02-24-2012, 03:52 PM
And you don't have to tell a guy he's awesome all the time...I don't read that into his comments at all...you can still get the best out of a guy without yelling at him, and criticize him without yelling at him...

the only thing I hope he understands is that if he only wants one other voice helping him with his swing, its Dwayne...not Daddy!

Teufelshunde4
02-24-2012, 04:11 PM
The biggest thing in all of this might be Murphy, and Farrell...LaRussa, is known for his being the baseball version of Mike Keenan...

And professional athletes have proven time and time again that the berating approach will only last for so long...if you are told "you suck" everyday...you start to believe it.

When a star like Pujols jumps ship...you are trading away a young stud...perhaps its not the players. When a Manager/Coach loses a team they are sunk...and Tony's now without a job...don't get me wrong, he's obviously a good manager given the success he's had...I just think Farrell's/Murphy's more patient approach with an emphasis on actual teaching will help him


News flash LaRussa retired... Was not fired or contract was not renewed... TLR was a demanding manager because he expected players to be ready to perform.
Please explain how TLR lost a team when that team won the World Series?
Colby is a huge talent.. I dont think there is a person who doesnt think that.. There are serious issue's with Coby.. Can he overcome them? Yes... But simply blaming the coaches Colby has had so far in his minor and major league career is wrong and off base..

Ace Drivers
02-24-2012, 04:34 PM
News flash LaRussa retired... Was not fired or not resigned... TLR was a demanding manager because he expected players to be ready to perform.
Please explain how TLR lost a team when that team won the World Series?
Simply Amazing logic there Ace

go back and read the posts...discussion already been had...

why not try posting something original...

PJ Awesome
02-24-2012, 04:44 PM
I guess his body language wasn't lying?

:clap:

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120224&content_id=26838012&vkey=news_tor&c_id=tor

This article on Rasmus actually gave me a little more hope for him, it's a good read if anybodys interrested

fatkev78
02-24-2012, 07:38 PM
Here's the interview that being quoted: http://www.sportsnet.ca/video/latest/Colby-Rasmus-1on1

I dig it.

wamco
02-24-2012, 09:54 PM
Rasmus "now I have my routine with my swing and I'll stick to it. If it doesn't work I can go home happy, knowing I stuck with it"

-Um. I hope not. I hope he goes home and fixes it.

nstojic
02-24-2012, 11:00 PM
a transcript from national post (national post)


These guys are cool, Bautistaís awesome, always upbeat, donít show anybody up or try to put his ego on top of you. This all about playing the game, having fun, just a bunch of guys trying to win a ball game.

a shot at pujols? :D

Bombtista
02-24-2012, 11:11 PM
a transcript from national post (national post)



a shot at pujols? :D

Hahaha sure sounds like one.

good to hear Bautista is modest even off camera

LechWalesa
02-24-2012, 11:41 PM
Rasmus "now I have my routine with my swing and I'll stick to it. If it doesn't work I can go home happy, knowing I stuck with it"

-Um. I hope not. I hope he goes home and fixes it.

To be fair, I think what he's generally trying to get across is that he has put himself into a better mental space to play in.

statquo
02-25-2012, 05:40 AM
Sounds to me like a kid who was badgered into self doubt. It would seem he was under a lot of pressure from all angles. I find it exciting that he is acknowledging this, giving valid reasoning for struggles (anyone whos ever played any decent baseball or even softball knows how easy it is to fall off a cliff with the bat when something in your swing is messed and confidence is a massive difference maker in the batters box) and seems to be facing it head on.

The kid has special talents I am shocked at how many people have just given up on him. I cant wait to see what he can do. He can put up excellent #s for a CF, especially hitting at the Rogers Centre.
I am also excited to see KJ looking like he may be the #2 hitter. He can be quite good especially if he reverses the trend of chasing more balls... hitting in the 2hole with the sole job of getting on in front of Bautista would lend itself to that mindset.

There is a reason to be excited about this team, Rasmus is a huge part of that.

This. If Rasmus has a year like Escobar had after coming over from the Braves, he'll be a huge boost to our offense, which is already a top 10 in the MLB. Rasmus could be a big reason if we can hit with the big boys this year.

wamco
02-25-2012, 09:22 AM
Should generally always be in the top 16 as they have an extra hitter over the 16 NL teams

nstojic
02-25-2012, 01:26 PM
This. If Rasmus has a year like Escobar had after coming over from the Braves, he'll be a huge boost to our offense, which is already a top 10 in the MLB. Rasmus could be a big reason if we can hit with the big boys this year.

Hey, AA, how about an escobar-from-the-braves-year from a starting pitcher? That's where we really need it.. don't get me wrong, our bats are solid and adding to them(productive rasmus) is just the cherries on top but we need the rotation to start pulling their weight.. that's when we'll really take off in the standings, imo

mike_noodles
02-25-2012, 01:28 PM
Rasmus "now I have my routine with my swing and I'll stick to it. If it doesn't work I can go home happy, knowing I stuck with it"

-Um. I hope not. I hope he goes home and fixes it.

I think you missed the point of the whole. That can easily be taken out of context.

I think his point was that he will go up to he plate each time with the same routine. Not with a mindset of Dad said this'll work, doesn't work, next pa, coach said this'll work, doesn't work, manager said this'll work, doesn't work, etc...

wamco
02-25-2012, 01:49 PM
right and even if he fails, he can go home happy, knowing he stuck with it. I can read. I like the guy, but he is a dumbo.

Dol-Fan
02-25-2012, 01:57 PM
right and even if he fails, he can go home happy, knowing he stuck with it. I can read. I like the guy, but he is a dumbo.

I like him too and expect a nice year...but I can't argue with this. Colby doesn't seem like he ever studied too good.

AA09-?
02-25-2012, 02:04 PM
right and even if he fails, he can go home happy, knowing he stuck with it. I can read. I like the guy, but he is a dumbo.

I like Colby's tools/skill set, not so sure I'm wild about his mindset.

Krylian
02-25-2012, 07:55 PM
As long as he can run, throw, and hit well......I'll be happy.

He doesn't need to be a rogue scholar...but yes, he comes across as a moron.

wamco
02-25-2012, 08:33 PM
may i ask what a rogue scholar is?

Krylian
02-25-2012, 11:11 PM
may i ask what a rogue scholar is?

A person with extensive knowledge pertaining to various subject matters that extends beyond formal education.

nithanyo
02-26-2012, 04:05 AM
As long as he can run, throw, and hit well......I'll be happy.

He doesn't need to be a rogue scholar...but yes, he comes across as a moron.

some of the best baseball players are morons

statquo
02-26-2012, 04:17 AM
Hey, AA, how about an escobar-from-the-braves-year from a starting pitcher? That's where we really need it.. don't get me wrong, our bats are solid and adding to them(productive rasmus) is just the cherries on top but we need the rotation to start pulling their weight.. that's when we'll really take off in the standings, imo

mike minor?

wamco
02-26-2012, 08:52 AM
1. not much better than prospects we have coming up
2. would cost too much in a trade
3. wouldn't want to play here
4. would get rocked in AL East.

bartron_44
02-27-2012, 04:42 PM
Rasmus looks like a stud physically. Athletic build with wide shoulders. From the sounds of it he has made some of the adjustments they asked him to before he left and he is handling the ball on the outer half much better.. Time will tell if he can be the kind of hitter he was in 2010. If he can't hit better then the person playing LF next to him this year, he may find himself traded at the deadline to make room for Gose. If he can hit like he did in 2010 then he would be a pretty solid LF'er considering the ground he can cover in the OF.

The good thing about it is that the only long term control we gave up in that deal was Scrabbles. We traded a Loogy for a CF'er who has posted an OPS of almost .860 when he was 23, and hasn't hit his prime yet.

The thing about Rasmus is that he is a lot like EE.....very streaky. Even in 2010 when he had a great year, he posted 3 separate months (May,July and Aug) with an OPS under .700..he just balanced them out with a great start (first 22 games), a great June, and a great final 30 games.

He had solid numbers just last season over the first 54 games. If he would have turned things around instead of mailing them in when he went to Toronto, is full season numbers wouldn't have been so bad. He never had a streak like the ones he had in 2010 but he was hitting .278 with an OBP of .378 and an OPS of .839 at the beginning of June last year.

I don't expect him to post an OPS over .900....I just want to see a few of those good months to go with the bad ones this year. When he is "on" he can be an impact type of bat. If the changes they made to his swing affect him any where near as good as the refinements Murphy made to Bautista to get him landing sooner and ready earlier...then this could be an exciting season in tdot. If they can increase his contact rate and cut don on the K's by correcting his timing mechanism, then he could have a break out season..He has plenty of power to hit 25-30 Hr's in the AL East if he can handle the pitching.

Jamiecballer
02-27-2012, 05:38 PM
As long as he can run, throw, and hit well......I'll be happy.

He doesn't need to be a rogue scholar...but yes, he comes across as a moron.

:facepalm:

Krylian
02-27-2012, 05:42 PM
:facepalm:

Would you like to elaborate on that?

wagnall
02-27-2012, 06:43 PM
Moron may be strong, but he does remind me of Jethro Bodine. But as Barton said this guy has all the tools physically, but does that translate into being a solid OF with a bat? I think by TD we will know. I'm hoping he does produce, as with the question marks surrounding LF, 2013 could look like Ras., Gose and Bauts which sounds nice to me.

wamco
02-27-2012, 06:45 PM
I thought it was the canadien version of the rhodes scholar.

wamco
02-27-2012, 06:45 PM
Moron may be strong, but he does remind me of Jethro Bodine. But as Barton said this guy has all the tools physically, but does that translate into being a solid OF with a bat? I think by TD we will know. I'm hoping he does produce, as with the question marks surrounding LF, 2013 could look like Ras., Gose and Bauts which sounds nice to me.

How long before Bautista goes to 1b?

Farsight
02-27-2012, 06:55 PM
How long before Bautista goes to 1b? If Gose, Marisnick, Snider, and Rasmus pan out, it may not be that long from now. I think by the end of 2013, to the start of 2014 we will see him take some at bats at First

riderfan60
02-27-2012, 08:17 PM
:facepalm:

Before all the scholastic elite get on Krilian over Rogue scholar, (you're assuming he meant Rhodes Scholar), you are the ones who are incorrect. A rogue scholar continues to improve their educational level outside of high school graduation, and yeah the term is correct. So before facepalming, check it out. I did, because I too thought this was an erroneous use of Rhodes Scholar. I found out otherwise.

Krylian
02-27-2012, 08:31 PM
Before all the scholastic elite get on Krilian over Rogue scholar, (you're assuming he meant Rhodes Scholar), you are the ones who are incorrect. A rogue scholar continues to improve their educational level outside of high school graduation, and yeah the term is correct. So before facepalming, check it out. I did, because I too thought this was an erroneous use of Rhodes Scholar. I found out otherwise.

Ha. Is that what it was? I thought he was implying that Rasmus was some sort of intellect and I was mistaken.

riderfan60
02-27-2012, 09:17 PM
Ha. Is that what it was? I thought he was implying that Rasmus was some sort of intellect and I was mistaken.

I'm guessing that you too, may be a Rogue scholar!

Jamiecballer
02-27-2012, 10:24 PM
Before all the scholastic elite get on Krilian over Rogue scholar, (you're assuming he meant Rhodes Scholar), you are the ones who are incorrect. A rogue scholar continues to improve their educational level outside of high school graduation, and yeah the term is correct. So before facepalming, check it out. I did, because I too thought this was an erroneous use of Rhodes Scholar. I found out otherwise.

i'm not sure whether to be suitably embarrassed, or call BS. so instead i'll make this face :eyebrow:

wamco
02-27-2012, 11:39 PM
i'd be embarrassed by your avatar and olp's last decade.

TRIUMPHATOR
02-29-2012, 04:45 PM
Now, now, let's not get too nasty. OLP were a good band in they're time. I also love Pearl Jam and they haven't done much either. They were both great when they were at they're best. Its not Rains fault he married Chantel.

craigerlee
02-29-2012, 04:59 PM
Now, now, let's not get too nasty. OLP were a good band in they're time. I also love Pearl Jam and they haven't done much either. They were both great when they were at they're best. Its not Rains fault he married Chantel.

Backspacer was a pretty good album IMO they put out in 2009. I haven't seen a decent OLP album since gravity in 2002.

wamco
02-29-2012, 10:13 PM
Now, now, let's not get too nasty. OLP were a good band in they're time. I also love Pearl Jam and they haven't done much either. They were both great when they were at they're best. Its not Rains fault he married Chantel.

nasty is that album cover that looks like a dude b)*E*S another dude. Hence why I said past decade ala every cd after gravity (and fish). Their choices of releases (wussy over edgey) did them in. That and the cd's becoming unlistenable. Now Rain's cd (which I saw live with his wife on piano) was a breath of fresh air.

AA09-?
02-29-2012, 10:15 PM
:offtopic: