PDA

View Full Version : Ken Berger breaks down DAL chance of getting D12/Deron



waveycrockett
02-14-2012, 03:57 PM
Dallas? A reassessment of the Mavs' cap situation after they signed Vince Carter reveals that they will not be able to clear enough room for two max players, as in Williams and Howard. The most room Dallas could possibly have is $29.4 million, according to league salary sheets. To do it, they would have to: 1) amnesty Brendan Haywood; 2) trade Shawn Marion; 3) waive Brandan Wright and Sean Williams; and 4), the kicker, trade Lamar Odom and Carter by March 15 for expiring contracts. Even then, they would be about $3 million shy of offering Howard and Williams max deals.

Yeah not looking great. Dont see them taking wayyyy less money to play with a fading Dirk.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/17210807/postups-as-howard-mulls-future-magic-aim-to-avoid-repeating-history

thekmp211
02-14-2012, 04:09 PM
true. lebron and bosh didn't either.

...

waveycrockett
02-14-2012, 04:14 PM
true. lebron and bosh didn't either.

...

True and they would be taking wayyyyyyyy less money that LBJ and Wade took to go play with a declining Dirk.

thekmp211
02-14-2012, 04:17 PM
no, they wouldn't.

http://www.sportando.net/eng/usa/nba/10718/contract_details_of_lebron_james_chris_bosh_and_dw yane_wade.html

regardless there's already a thread about this.

waveycrockett
02-14-2012, 04:29 PM
no, they wouldn't.

http://www.sportando.net/eng/usa/nba/10718/contract_details_of_lebron_james_chris_bosh_and_dw yane_wade.html

regardless there's already a thread about this.

UMM yes they would and no there is not a thread already about this. Wade and LeBron took ~115MM "discount" instead of the full 6 year 130 Million discount. Under the new CBA the raises per year and number of years is much smaller especially since they would have to take a discount which assumes DAL will deal VC and Odom by March 15 which aint happening and that they will be dying to play with Dirk who will be 34 years old at the start of next season.

RickyRubio
02-14-2012, 04:38 PM
Can Dirk reconstruct his current contract?

waveycrockett
02-14-2012, 04:41 PM
Can Dirk reconstruct his current contract?

According to Larry Coon under the new CBA you can only restructure your contract to take more money not less.

Rangerchick
02-14-2012, 04:43 PM
Dallas? A reassessment of the Mavs' cap situation after they signed Vince Carter reveals that they will not be able to clear enough room for two max players, as in Williams and Howard. The most room Dallas could possibly have is $29.4 million, according to league salary sheets. To do it, they would have to: 1) amnesty Brendan Haywood; 2) trade Shawn Marion; 3) waive Brandan Wright and Sean Williams; and 4), the kicker, trade Lamar Odom and Carter by March 15 for expiring contracts. Even then, they would be about $3 million shy of offering Howard and Williams max deals.

1. No problem

2. Marion is averaging 6.3 rebounds and 12.0 ppg, and at 33 he has a couple of decent years left. Might not be worth the $8 and $9+ million he'll get in '12-'13 and '13-'14, but someone might jump at his versatility (can play PF in small lineup), resurrected 3-pt shooting ability, and solid defense to come off the bench.

3. No problem.

4. Nice research. DAL has a team option on Odom for next year. They could just decline it so no trade necessary. And Carter's '12-'13 and '13-'14 are only partially guaranteed.

5. Dirk comes off the books after '13'-'14. Why couldn't DAL just offer Howard and DWill a little below the max for the first couple of years and then escalate the salaries for the remaining years of their contracts after Dirk is gone?

Dirk has averaged 23 ppg game so far in February. It's conceivable he might have something left for each of the next two seasons if they reduce his minutes to keep him fresh.

RickyRubio
02-14-2012, 04:44 PM
According to Larry Coon under the new CBA you can only restructure your contract to take more money not less.

Damn that Coon :mad: .. well I suppose Dwight/Deron can take paycuts similar to what Lebron/Wade/Bosh did if they truly want to form a core 3 to build around .. but yea as the OP said they will need to seriously move a few guys in order to create flexibility

waveycrockett
02-14-2012, 04:54 PM
1. No problem

2. Marion is averaging 6.3 rebounds and 12.0 ppg, and at 33 he has a couple of decent years left. Might not be worth the $8 and $9+ million he'll get in '12-'13 and '13-'14, but someone might jump at his versatility (can play PF in small lineup), resurrected 3-pt shooting ability, and solid defense to come off the bench.

3. No problem.

4. Nice research. DAL has a team option on Odom for next year. They could just decline it so no trade necessary. And Carter's '12-'13 and '13-'14 are only partially guaranteed.

5. Dirk comes off the books after '13'-'14. Why couldn't DAL just offer Howard and DWill a little below the max for the first couple of years and then escalate the salaries for the remaining years of their contracts after Dirk is gone?

Dirk has averaged 23 ppg game so far in February. It's conceivable he might have something left for each of the next two seasons if they reduce his minutes to keep him fresh.

3)Cuban is trying like a used car salesman to try and get someone to bite on Marion. No one is biting.

4)When a contract is terminated in the case of VC there will still be a significant cap hit where Deron and Dwight who would have to come at a discount would need to take even less probably 4MM/year less. Declining on Odom would be putting the Mavs all in on Deron and D-Will.

5)Dallas cannot set annual raise%, it's set from the CBA. They can only have like 10% or something like that from the start of the new contract. So they'd be screwed.

Bob_at_york
02-14-2012, 04:57 PM
So they only get one, that still makes them an amazing team.

mgsports
02-14-2012, 04:59 PM
Celtics get Kidd -9wins Get one last chance with adding Kidd to teh Group another championship
Magic get Terry/Rondo/Marion -2wins With Rondo/Nelson in back court and then Anderson/Marion/Hedo up front Off the Bench Terry/Davis/Both Richardson's/Duhon/Wafer and so on.
Nets get Redick -4wins
Mavs get Howard and Williams +17wins

waveycrockett
02-14-2012, 05:01 PM
So they only get one, that still makes them an amazing team.

Wherever Dwight goes Deron goes and Dwight's first choice has always been Brooklyn.

elonepb
02-14-2012, 05:02 PM
Zero chance this happens unless one of them gets traded there somehow by some miracle before the trading deadline.

CudiOnMyiPod
02-14-2012, 05:05 PM
Anyone who says Dirk is done is an idiot. He was out of shape and had a bad start. In his last 6 games he is averaging 25.6 ppg and over 7 boards per game. Plus he has hit the big shots for Dallas in each of those games.

Deron and Dwight is a perfect combo and why not go to Dallas with another superstar who is the most unguardable player in the NBA and a top 3 shooter. Not to mention the most clutch player. They would take less money. Deron moreso than Dwight. Dallas will get one of them at least and that will probably Deron Williams.

JordansBulls
02-14-2012, 05:05 PM
So they only get one, that still makes them an amazing team.

For how long? Dirk is already 34.

waveycrockett
02-14-2012, 05:07 PM
Anyone who says Dirk is done is an idiot. He was out of shape and had a bad start. In his last 6 games he is averaging 25.6 ppg and over 7 boards per game. Plus he has hit the big shots for Dallas in each of those games.

Deron and Dwight is a perfect combo and why not go to Dallas with another superstar who is the most unguardable player in the NBA and a top 3 shooter. Not to mention the most clutch player. They would take less money. Deron moreso than Dwight. Dallas will get one of them at least and that will probably Deron Williams.

Why would Deron choose playing with an OLD and FADING Dirk over Dwight?? Not to mention the Nets would actually have other young promising players to put around them like Marshon Brooks. Harrison Barnes/Perry Jones and Brook Lopez?? Going to Dallas would be dumb.

Bob_at_york
02-14-2012, 05:13 PM
Wherever Dwight goes Deron goes and Dwight's first choice has always been Brooklyn.

I guess we will see. Looking at your posts you seemed convinced that they will both be in NJ. I still see that as a definite possibility but it won't be simple.

Also Deron wouldn't just be playing with Dirk, he would be playing with Terry, Marion and Haywood too. Lots of talent there.

Raph12
02-14-2012, 05:20 PM
Why would they take a paycut to play with an old Dirk who said he's likely going to retire in about 3 years?...

RickyRubio
02-14-2012, 05:23 PM
Celtics get Kidd -9wins Get one last chance with adding Kidd to teh Group another championship
Magic get Terry/Rondo/Marion -2wins With Rondo/Nelson in back court and then Anderson/Marion/Hedo up front Off the Bench Terry/Davis/Both Richardson's/Duhon/Wafer and so on.
Nets get Redick -4wins
Mavs get Howard and Williams +17wins

If i am the Nets I absolutely trade Deron Williams for JJ Reddick, and as the Celtics a Rondo for Kidd swap is a no brainer .. outstanding trade proposal :clap:

LTBaByyy
02-14-2012, 05:24 PM
Dallas and Brooklyn are the only teams that can sign them both outright

I think they would choose the discount option and go with Mark Cuban and Dirk

They have endorsement deals!!! What is 4 million dollars to them a year when they have endorsement deals that cover that 4 mil and way past it!!!

Mavs already have ton of cash, Decline team options on Carter and Odom, and Amnesty Haywood

Marion is not the problem financially, Howard and D Will just agree to 15 or 16 mil a year to play with Dirk ( a proven winner) and Mark Cuban instead of take the Max and be just like the Knicks

Terry, Kidd, and others will all sign vet min to play with Dirk, D Will, Howard

Just wait and see.

RickyRubio
02-14-2012, 05:24 PM
Why would they take a paycut to play with an old Dirk who said he's likely going to retire in about 3 years?...

Dirk and Howard compliment each other so well I am sure he could play till damn near his 40's .. all he will have to do is shoot, he has never relied on any type of athleticism he can play for a long time in this league and his lack of defense Howard can make up (see Ryan Anderson or Rashard Lewis as the Magic's defensive PF). Howard seems to want to play with Williams anyways and Dirk is clearly better than any other player on the Nets.

Raph12
02-14-2012, 05:27 PM
Dirk and Howard compliment each other so well I am sure he could play till damn near his 40's .. all he will have to do is shoot, he has never relied on any type of athleticism he can play for a long time in this league and his lack of defense Howard can make up (see Ryan Anderson or Rashard Lewis as the Magic's defensive PF). Howard seems to want to play with Williams anyways and Dirk is clearly better than any other player on the Nets.

Yes but grandpa Dirk has already told everyone he'll probably retire after another 3 seasons or so... If the Nets can keep their assets and sign Dwight in the offseason, they'd have a much better team.

waveycrockett
02-14-2012, 05:30 PM
Dallas and Brooklyn are the only teams that can sign them both outright

I think they would choose the discount option and go with Mark Cuban and Dirk

They have endorsement deals!!! What is 4 million dollars to them a year when they have endorsement deals that cover that 4 mil and way past it!!!

They already have ton of cash, Decline team options on Carter and Odom, and Amnesty Haywood

Marion is not the problem financially, Howard and D Will just agree to 15 or 16 mil a year to play with Dirk ( a proven winner) and Mark Cuban

Terry, Kidd, and others will all sign vet min to play with Dirk, D Will, Howard

Just wait and see.

There is not a single part of this post that is realistic stemming from 15mm per year discount when that would be their max and Deron getting endorsements in Dallas lololol. He has come out and said he isnt going to be able to make endorsement money

LTBaByyy
02-14-2012, 05:39 PM
There is not a single part of this post that is realistic stemming from 15mm per year discount when that would be their max and Deron getting endorsements in Dallas lololol. He has come out and said he isnt going to be able to make endorsement money

Hahaha you must be 15 years old, I want you to go do your research on how much Nike pays Deron Williams and how much Adidas pays Dwight Howard...

Then talk to me on how 4 or 5 million dollars would be major loss to them

Seems to me, LBJ and Bosh are doing just as fine as Melo and Amare!!! Making 4 or 5 mil less than them

waveycrockett
02-14-2012, 05:42 PM
There is not a single part of this post that is realistic stemming from 15mm per year discount when that would be their max and Deron getting endorsements in Dallas lololol. He has come out and said he isnt going to be able to make endorsement money

Hahaha you must be 15 years old, I want you to go do your research on how much Nike pays Deron Williams and how much Adidas pays Dwight Howard...

Then talk to me on how 4 or 5 million dollars would be major loss to them

Seems to me, LBJ and Bosh are doing just as fine as Melo and Amare!!! Making 4 or 5 mil less than them

Actually you the one who needs to do research. Deron has come out and said he wont make endorsement money especially not in Dallas and Bosh didnt take a discount! LBJ and Wade did you know why?!?!

netsgiantsyanks
02-14-2012, 11:25 PM
who knows...

LA_Raiders
02-15-2012, 01:52 AM
Lakers need to go all in for one of those 2

Rockice_8
02-15-2012, 09:29 AM
DAL isn't getting just one why do people keep saying that. It's both or none. D-Will and Dwight will be playing together in 2012 in Brooklyn (most likely) or DAL (if they take the pay cut and think Dirk has something left).

JKiddFan4Life
02-15-2012, 10:06 AM
People keep mentioning the money they'd be losing by not getting the max in Dallas, but they haven't mentioned how much they would be saving by not having a state income tax???

last stand
02-15-2012, 12:26 PM
People keep mentioning the money they'd be losing by not getting the max in Dallas, but they haven't mentioned how much they would be saving by not having a state income tax???

This is so mathematically incorrect

last stand
02-15-2012, 12:36 PM
1. No problem



4. Nice research. DAL has a team option on Odom for next year. They could just decline it so no trade necessary. And Carter's '12-'13 and '13-'14 are only partially guaranteed.

.

Wrong. If the team let's him go via team option then they have to pay him a buyout of 2 million which counts against the cap

And the only teams who will want Marion are contenders because losing teams will have no use for him or his salary. Contenders won't give up expirings with the escalating tax penalties of the new CBA. And No one is doing Cuban any favors.

Especially when everyone knows why he'd be trying to trade Marion. Just like how Cuban and gilbert freaked out about cp3 to the lakers getting Howard there to so they cried to stern. Owners will see what trading for Marion will do and blackball Cuban

P Styles
02-15-2012, 12:37 PM
Isn't there a "stretch" provision under the new CBA? Not sure exactly how it works, but maybe someone else can chime in on whether or not that would be a factor?

JKiddFan4Life
02-15-2012, 01:00 PM
This is so mathematically incorrect

Well I didn't actually provide any mathematics, but this is something that any player would, and should account for. State income tax in NY is about 8.97% for anyone making over $500k per year. There is no income state tax in TX.

This wouldn't make up for a loss of 4 million dollars per, but it would decrease the financial gap somewhat.

urban85disciple
02-15-2012, 01:14 PM
Well I didn't actually provide any mathematics, but this is something that any player would, and should account for. State income tax in NY is about 8.97% for anyone making over $500k per year. There is no income state tax in TX.

This wouldn't make up for a loss of 4 million dollars per, but it would decrease the financial gap somewhat.

You do realize (or maybe you wouldn't) that they pay taxes on the cities/states they play in? So yeah they'll save tax dollars on the 41 home games they play but that isn't a difference-maker.

BTW Florida doesn't have state tax either. What I don't understand is why the Magic isn't looking into bringing DWill to ORL.

mgsports
02-15-2012, 01:32 PM
Dwill to Mavs +8wins
Diaw/Kidd to Celtics -8wins
Haywood/Morrow to Bobcats +4wins
Rondo/O'Neal to Nets -2wins

Howard/Duhon to Mavs +6wins
Kaman/Terry/Marion to Magic -6wins
Ariza to Dallas
Redick/Orton/Money to Hornets 2wins

ichitownclowni
02-15-2012, 01:35 PM
One is still better than none and I think Deron would help a aging Dirk but D12 would to but I think they get D Will

JKiddFan4Life
02-15-2012, 01:49 PM
You do realize (or maybe you wouldn't) that they pay taxes on the cities/states they play in? So yeah they'll save tax dollars on the 41 home games they play but that isn't a difference-maker.

BTW Florida doesn't have state tax either. What I don't understand is why the Magic isn't looking into bringing DWill to ORL.

So you're saying that your yearly income tax as an NBA player is based on what you made per city that you played in? That's definitely something I'd never heard before. And yes, ORL bringing in DWill would make just as much sense. The only benefit at that point would be to also play alongside Dirk.

therealwd27
02-15-2012, 01:53 PM
Stop comparing Wade,Bron and Bosh,Melo and Amare to Dwight and Deron..It is a completely different CBA with different salary cap rules and signing bonuses..Unless Dwight or D-Will do a sign and trade they would be leaving in excess of 30 mil on the table!! Why in the world would they do that to sign with Dallas? Dwight is going where ever Deron is. And The nets will have a high draft pick with young talent and cap space, new arena..Lots of endorsement deals in place.

therealwd27
02-15-2012, 01:55 PM
Celtics get Kidd -9wins Get one last chance with adding Kidd to teh Group another championship
Magic get Terry/Rondo/Marion -2wins With Rondo/Nelson in back court and then Anderson/Marion/Hedo up front Off the Bench Terry/Davis/Both Richardson's/Duhon/Wafer and so on.
Nets get Redick -4wins
Mavs get Howard and Williams +17wins

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

The goods
02-15-2012, 02:36 PM
If they want to play together their going to the nets its really that simple if they both hit free agency why go to dallas and take a paycut when you can play with the nets for max money,a big market,and young players pretty simple choice actually,and not to mention you trade brook lopez for more pieces that's a done deal.
Which is why the lakers need to get one of them. Lol

Rockice_8
02-15-2012, 02:39 PM
Stop comparing Wade,Bron and Bosh,Melo and Amare to Dwight and Deron..It is a completely different CBA with different salary cap rules and signing bonuses..Unless Dwight or D-Will do a sign and trade they would be leaving in excess of 30 mil on the table!! Why in the world would they do that to sign with Dallas? Dwight is going where ever Deron is. And The nets will have a high draft pick with young talent and cap space, new arena..Lots of endorsement deals in place.

It's not 30 mil? That is so untrue. It's more like 6 mil. The S&T deal is a 5 year deal while the FA signing is only a 4 year deal.

If Dwight gets to FA and signs with another team then he'll probably have an opt out after year 3 and just resign to a full max deal like the one Orlando can offer meaning he'll miss out on like $2 mil per season of the first three years of his next contract therefore only $6 mil. In Brooklyn he'll make up for that easily in endorsements.

therealwd27
02-15-2012, 02:42 PM
It's not 30 mil? That is so untrue. It's more like 6 mil. The S&T deal is a 5 year deal while the FA signing is only a 4 year deal.

If Dwight gets signed as a FA and Orlando hopes the fake $30 mil will get him to stay then he'll probably have an opt out after year 3 and just resign to a full max deal like the one Orlando can offer meaning he'll miss out on like $2 mil per season of the first three years of his next contract therefore only $6 mil. In Brooklyn he'll make up for that easily in endorsements.

The team that has Howard when the trade deadline expires will inherit his "Bird rights," and that team could offer him a five-year guaranteed contract with 7.5 percent annual raises if he becomes a free agent in July. That deal would be worth a total of about $110 million.

Any other team that would attempt to sign Howard as a free agent would be limited to offering a four-year guaranteed contract with 4.5 percent annual raises. That deal would be worth about $81 million.

At first the difference would be about 3.7 mil..But its at the end of the contract that the bulk amount of the 30 mil will come into play

therealwd27
02-15-2012, 02:43 PM
It's not 30 mil? That is so untrue. It's more like 6 mil. The S&T deal is a 5 year deal while the FA signing is only a 4 year deal.

If Dwight gets to FA and signs with another team then he'll probably have an opt out after year 3 and just resign to a full max deal like the one Orlando can offer meaning he'll miss out on like $2 mil per season of the first three years of his next contract therefore only $6 mil. In Brooklyn he'll make up for that easily in endorsements.

That being said I think he ends up in Brooklyn regardless of S/T or FA

Rockice_8
02-15-2012, 02:50 PM
The team that has Howard when the trade deadline expires will inherit his "Bird rights," and that team could offer him a five-year guaranteed contract with 7.5 percent annual raises if he becomes a free agent in July. That deal would be worth a total of about $110 million.

Any other team that would attempt to sign Howard as a free agent would be limited to offering a four-year guaranteed contract with 4.5 percent annual raises. That deal would be worth about $81 million.

At first the difference would be about 3.7 mil..But its at the end of the contract that the bulk amount of the 30 mil will come into play

Your right but having that 5th year on the end at $20 mil or whatever is not the same as as a 4 year deal you can't compare a 5year deal to a 4 year deal. The 5th year will be the same as the 1st year of his new contract which will be pretty much the same so I don't get why I constantly see $30 mil thrown around when that's not the case.

He could probably have an opt out after the 3rd year as well so he can start his max bird rights contract even a year earlier saving even more money lost.

I do agree with you on one point though he'll be in Brooklyn one way or another.

therealwd27
02-15-2012, 02:54 PM
Your right but having that 5th year on the end at $20 mil or whatever is not the same as as a 4 year deal you can't compare a 5year deal to a 4 year deal. The 5th year will be the same as the 1st year of his new contract which will be pretty much the same so I don't get why I constantly see $30 mil thrown around when that's not the case.

He could probably have an opt out after the 3rd year as well so he can start his max bird rights contract even a year earlier saving even more money lost.

I do agree with you on one point though he'll be in Brooklyn one way or another.

Agreed 100% :clap: