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AndyfromNeptune
02-12-2012, 02:19 PM
I do not often make threads in the NBA forum due to the constant baiting along with immature and unthoughtful comments, but I wanted to get an honest evaluation from NBA fans--not just Knicks fans-- about a team that has seemed to have enormous fluctuations this season.

With the Knicks seemingly having a solid point guard in Jeremy Lin (I say seemingly beacuse you never know what can happen to a young player who is inexperienced), a progressing shooting guard in Landry Fields who has shown improvement from his lackluster play in the beginning of the year, an athletic and incredible defender and improving playmaker in Iman Shumpert, an incredible scorer and improved defender (in terms of effort this year) in Carmelo Anthony, a premier power forward in Amare Stoudemire, and one of the best defensive centers in the league in Tyson Chandler, where do you think this team is right now, and where do you think this team is headed in the future?

Is this a playoffs team? Is this a championship team? Is this team a failure? Where does it need to improve? Should the coach be fired or extended? Is the bench good enough?

Please all NBA fans share your unbiased thoughts. But please, do so with some sagacity. It's much easier to get a nice discussion with responses backed by facts and historical references than blatant projections or unwarranted opinions.

Thank you.

xxplayerxx23
02-12-2012, 02:20 PM
another knick thread jesus christ

AndyfromNeptune
02-12-2012, 02:24 PM
another knick thread jesus christ

Darn. I knew when I posted the thread that I would get responses like this.


I'm just hoping to get a consesus from NBA fans who have perhaps a better perspective on things. Especially since I'm an avid Knicks fan living in the tri-state area, it's so unfortunately easy to get caught up in the hype and forget about reality.

I was hoping this thread would provide some clarity from NBA fans with a more peripheral knowledge base.

xxplayerxx23
02-12-2012, 02:27 PM
im a knick fan but it wont. this will prob get closed.

Kashmir13579
02-12-2012, 02:30 PM
Well, Andy, i think a lot of people are curious about what you are asking here. You tried your best to present it in a respectful and rational way... We'll see how this thread shakes out.

AndyfromNeptune
02-12-2012, 02:32 PM
Well, Andy, i think a lot of people are curious about what you are asking here. You tried your best to present it in a respectful and rational way... We'll see how this thread shakes out.


I was hoping that if I proposed in a way that would elecit more thoughtful responses, at least fans could discuss based on facts not just their own opinions. (which we all know on PSD about any team coule be quite erratic)

Bubba313
02-12-2012, 02:33 PM
I think we should all reserve judgment until these things happen:

1) Amare and Melo come back
2) We find out whether JR Smith is signing with us or someone else
3) Jorts comes back from injury
4) Baron Davis either comes back or is declared out for the season

onlythisfar41
02-12-2012, 02:35 PM
Okay fellow Knick fans, please stop making more Knick related threads right now, we don't need them. You are just opening us up for more unnecessary ridicule. This has to stop, someone makes a new Knicks thread every few hours. Let's just keep this stuff in our own forum for now.

Slimsim
02-12-2012, 02:36 PM
We go as far as Iman takes us. He's our most clutch 4th quarter Player

AndyfromNeptune
02-12-2012, 02:40 PM
I think we should all reserve judgment until these things happen:

1) Amare and Melo come back
2) We find out whether JR Smith is signing with us or someone else
3) Jorts comes back from injury
4) Baron Davis either comes back or is declared out for the season

It's eerily crazy on how many fluctuations our season has and will continue to experience. I attribute much of this to the lockout.

latinofire21
02-12-2012, 02:47 PM
This is a good thread. We were dissected during the bad stretch now that we have a PG in place like we have been saying all season look at the difference. We are still injured and caught by the injury bug bad but we are Linning.

I would actually be really interested what the other fan bases have to say as long as it doesnt start with "too small a sample size lets see in a year". Hate that arguement with a passion.

JEDean89
02-12-2012, 02:49 PM
The Knicks have a chance to be a more complete team than the Miami heat due to.

1.) A pure pg in Jeremy Lin, the heat have chalmers and cole who are good, but Lebron is the playmaker on that team.
2.) A true center who is a complete beast on defense. the heat have anthony and lol, eddy curry. they also don't have cap room to get a center without loosing one of the big 3. it is hard to underpay for a good big or to draft one that can contribute right away, bigs take more time to develop than guards.
3.) A better cast of young players. Fields, Shumps and Lin are solid players and if Toney Douglas could get back to playing like he did last year we are all the better.

The Miami heat have a better bench, and the 2 best players in the league. With that said and now a season and a half of developing chemistry, they are still nowhere near the team that they should be. The Cavs with their weak supporting cast were a better team than the Miami Heat. Mike Brown deserves more credit than he got for how good those Cavs were. Miami is far and away the better team right now, but I think the Knicks have a better spread of talent, especially in their starting 5. It will be tons of fun watching these 2 teams go at it for years to come.

The Knicks have suffered mainly from not having a team that knows who it is. Amare has had now 5 different starting Pg's since he was signed, and has played with over 20 players since he has gotten here. That is not how you build a championship team. With 7-8 players who now know there roll on the team and who will be here for years to come, the Knicks are only going to get better. I see them getting progressively better with Melo and Amare coming back, perhaps cracking the top 5 seeds in the East, and making a playoff run. Miami is still my title favorite and I'm calling a Heat Thunder finals, but it is hard to win a Championship with the glaring holes that Miami has. The Knicks have glaring holes too, but it easier to fill bench positions than to fill a starting PG, C position.

nate2usmc
02-12-2012, 02:51 PM
I've lived in FL for more than a decade now so I got out of the NY sports media's clutches lol. Knicks didn't know what the heck they needed to do on offense thanks to: No summer league, the normal amount of training camps, Billups getting cut for Tyson leaving no credible floor general to run things. Melo, Amare and Tyson weren't gelling thanks to having no competant PG, no ball movement, bench sucked (actually a pleasant surprise the last 5 games).

Lin is not a Star (yet) until he earns his stripes this year. The run is amazing but it shows that this is what needs to happen this year:

Melo and Amare need to play consistent defense and move the ball more than what they did earlier this season.

Bench needs to stay motivated.

Fields needs to be pre-Melo Fields. Maybe it's just me but I think he's so important to the Knicks season and if he can start knocking down open shots, that's huge for the Knicks.

Lin needs to work on reducing turnovers and should not try to do too much (like taking 13 shots in a half) ever again, when the Melo and Amare come back.

D'Antoni NEEDS to take control of the team to implement the ideals that has worked with Tyson and Lin leading the Knicks. Also he needs to make sure that the plan on offense in crunchtime isn't just Melo ALL THE TIME (the Nuggets game comes to mind).

Go hard after JR Smith!

zoned88
02-12-2012, 02:56 PM
Although I respect what the thread is trying to accomplish.. This is an open invitation for bashing..

nate2usmc
02-12-2012, 02:57 PM
The Knicks have a chance to be a more complete team than the Miami heat due to.

1.) A pure pg in Jeremy Lin, the heat have chalmers and cole who are good, but Lebron is the playmaker on that team.
2.) A true center who is a complete beast on defense. the heat have anthony and lol, eddy curry. they also don't have cap room to get a center without loosing one of the big 3. it is hard to underpay for a good big or to draft one that can contribute right away, bigs take more time to develop than guards.
3.) A better cast of young players. Fields, Shumps and Lin are solid players and if Toney Douglas could get back to playing like he did last year we are all the better.

The Miami heat have a better bench, and the 2 best players in the league. With that said and now a season and a half of developing chemistry, they are still nowhere near the team that they should be. The Cavs with their weak supporting cast were a better team than the Miami Heat. Mike Brown deserves more credit than he got for how good those Cavs were. Miami is far and away the better team right now, but I think the Knicks have a better spread of talent, especially in their starting 5. It will be tons of fun watching these 2 teams go at it for years to come.

The Knicks have suffered mainly from not having a team that knows who it is. Amare has had now 5 different starting Pg's since he was signed, and has played with over 20 players since he has gotten here. That is not how you build a championship team. With 7-8 players who now know there roll on the team and who will be here for years to come, the Knicks are only going to get better. I see them getting progressively better with Melo and Amare coming back, perhaps cracking the top 5 seeds in the East, and making a playoff run. Miami is still my title favorite and I'm calling a Heat Thunder finals, but it is hard to win a Championship with the glaring holes that Miami has. The Knicks have glaring holes too, but it easier to fill bench positions than to fill a starting PG, C position.

Oh man. Knicks don't have a chance to be a better team than the Heat unless Melo and Amare play defense 24/7 and Melo turns into a distributor like LeBron. The Heat have a more experienced bench and legit shooters than Knicks do. Hope the Knicks can get in that direction though :pray:

utl768
02-12-2012, 03:01 PM
I do not often make threads in the NBA forum due to the constant baiting along with immature and unthoughtful comments, but I wanted to get an honest evaluation from NBA fans--not just Knicks fans-- about a team that has seemed to have enormous fluctuations this season.

With the Knicks seemingly having a solid point guard in Jeremy Lin (I say seemingly beacuse you never know what can happen to a young player who is inexperienced), a progressing shooting guard in Landry Fields who has shown improvement from his lackluster play in the beginning of the year, an athletic and incredible defender and improving playmaker in Iman Shumpert, an incredible scorer and improved defender (in terms of effort this year) in Carmelo Anthony, a premier power forward in Amare Stoudemire, and one of the best defensive centers in the league in Tyson Chandler, where do you think this team is right now, and where do you think this team is headed in the future?

Is this a playoffs team? Is this a championship team? Is this team a failure? Where does it need to improve? Should the coach be fired or extended? Is the bench good enough?

Please all NBA fans share your unbiased thoughts. But please, do so with some sagacity. It's much easier to get a nice discussion with responses backed by facts and historical references than blatant projections or unwarranted opinions.

Thank you.

this thread was doomed from the start

Jesse2272
02-12-2012, 03:04 PM
I've lived in FL for more than a decade now so I got out of the NY sports media's clutches lol. Knicks didn't know what the heck they needed to do on offense thanks to: No summer league, the normal amount of training camps, Billups getting cut for Tyson leaving no credible floor general to run things. Melo, Amare and Tyson weren't gelling thanks to having no competant PG, no ball movement, bench sucked (actually a pleasant surprise the last 5 games).

Lin is not a Star (yet) until he earns his stripes this year. The run is amazing but it shows that this is what needs to happen this year:

Melo and Amare need to play consistent defense and move the ball more than what they did earlier this season.

Bench needs to stay motivated.

Fields needs to be pre-Melo Fields. Maybe it's just me but I think he's so important to the Knicks season and if he can start knocking down open shots, that's huge for the Knicks.

Lin needs to work on reducing turnovers and should not try to do too much (like taking 13 shots in a half) ever again, when the Melo and Amare come back.

D'Antoni NEEDS to take control of the team to implement the ideals that has worked with Tyson and Lin leading the Knicks. Also he needs to make sure that the plan on offense in crunchtime isn't just Melo ALL THE TIME (the Nuggets game comes to mind).

Go hard after JR Smith!


Pretty much sums up my thoughts, not much I can detract from that

I would only add, urgent we determine Baron's status for the season ASAP, if he is not returning, we need to determine who to cut (including for the spot JR will need if obtained) and bring in a serviceable backup for Lin

yaswaggin
02-12-2012, 03:07 PM
lin is the real deal.

i hope he keeps his head up, and ignores the haters.

as a sixers fan, i am supposed to hate him like the rest of the knicks, but the more i watch him take control of each, the more i like.

latinofire21
02-12-2012, 03:12 PM
I think the odd man out is Bibby. I am not a fan of Billy Walker so it wouldnt bother me if they tossed him.

nate2usmc
02-12-2012, 03:13 PM
Pretty much sums up my thoughts, not much I can detract from that

I would only add, urgent we determine Baron's status for the season ASAP, if he is not returning, we need to determine who to cut (including for the spot JR will need if obtained) and bring in a serviceable backup for Lin

Oh yea I forgot about that guy lol. Yea, Knicks need to get a backup PG ASAP. I wish TD can contribute something :pity:

nate2usmc
02-12-2012, 03:15 PM
this thread was doomed from the start

**** off :p

BTW I really hope the checklist in your sig comes true!

Sofnr
02-12-2012, 03:23 PM
The truth is we don't yet know who the Knicks are. I've considered them a first round exit all season and they continue to be that for the moment. They don't yet deserve to be mentioned along with teams like Chicago, Miami, Philadelphia, and Indiana. This 5 game win streak is impressive because they are playing with injuries but this injured team certainly wouldn't fare well against top competition. Lin has been a nice revelation. Once Melo and Amare return we will get to see how this team performs when fully healthy. I still have my doubts on Lin's ability to sustain his success and on how well Melo, Amare, and Lin will gel together. But things are certainly looking up. Its been a good week. Lets wait and see what the next month brings. If the Knicks can pass Boston and Philly to take over first place in the Atlantic they will definitely start to be considered more of a threat.

nate2usmc
02-12-2012, 03:26 PM
The truth is we don't yet know who the Knicks are. I've considered them a first round exit all season and they continue to be that for the moment. They don't yet deserve to be mentioned along with teams like Chicago, Miami, Philadelphia, and Indiana. This 5 game win streak is impressive because they are playing with injuries but this injured team certainly wouldn't fare well against top competition. Lin has been a nice revelation. Once Melo and Amare return we will get to see how this team performs when fully healthy. I still have my doubts on Lin's ability to sustain his success and on how well Melo, Amare, and Lin will gel together. But things are certainly looking up. Its been a good week. Lets wait and see what the next month brings. If the Knicks can pass Boston and Philly to take over first place in the Atlantic they will definitely start to be considered more of a threat.

This.

AndyfromNeptune
02-12-2012, 03:33 PM
The truth is we don't yet know who the Knicks are. I've considered them a first round exit all season and they continue to be that for the moment. They don't yet deserve to be mentioned along with teams like Chicago, Miami, Philadelphia, and Indiana. This 5 game win streak is impressive because they are playing with injuries but this injured team certainly wouldn't fare well against top competition. Lin has been a nice revelation. Once Melo and Amare return we will get to see how this team performs when fully healthy. I still have my doubts on Lin's ability to sustain his success and on how well Melo, Amare, and Lin will gel together. But things are certainly looking up. Its been a good week. Lets wait and see what the next month brings. If the Knicks can pass Boston and Philly to take over first place in the Atlantic they will definitely start to be considered more of a threat.

Wow. A really thoughtful response. A lot of the responses in this thread even from Knicks fans have shown some nice perspective on things.

I feel as a team, we still are not there. Our point guard has to be able to work effectively with Amare and Melo definitely needs to find his role in D'antonis system.

Melo's system hasn't really worked too well this year.

I think having a rotation of this:

1. Lin
2. Fields
3. Melo
4. Stat
5. Tyson

with Shumpert, Douglas, Novak, Jorts, Jeffries, and Walker getting minutes off the bench would be a great playoff rotation.

That is, if we make the playoffs...which may not be so easy especially in a lockout shortened season.

I have a feeling if we pull it all together .. thats a big IF..it will be in the playoffs.

Tony_Starks
02-12-2012, 05:26 PM
Below .500 with Melo and above .500 w/o him pretty much sums up the Knicks for me. They bet it all on the wrong star, D Williams would have made so much more sense.....

IndyRealist
02-12-2012, 05:52 PM
Oh man. Knicks don't have a chance to be a better team than the Heat unless Melo and Amare play defense 24/7 and Melo turns into a distributor like LeBron. The Heat have a more experienced bench and legit shooters than Knicks do. Hope the Knicks can get in that direction though :pray:

So....if Melo turns into Lebron and Amare turns into Bosh....they'll be better than the Heat? I think the goal should be to solidify a playoff spot first before thinking about being better than the Heat.