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Evolution23
02-11-2012, 01:43 AM
Now that we are almost done talking about Lin being the real deal (some thing I predicted a month ago), I want to talk about a myth that still exists about the Knicks. The Knicks are ranked 10th in defense this season and all season they have been a good defensive team. Even when they were losing a few weeks ago their defense wasn't the question, it was the point guard play that made the offense stagnant. But I kept hearing from ignorant fans who didn't watch games that they don't play defense. It was like hearing JB from ESPN bash the team's defense without watching the actual game. I think it has to do with previous cliches about Mike D'antoni which are simply not true or at least exaggerated to the max. A lot of people outside of New York do not watch Knicks games but I would like to hear the opinions of people that happen to watch the Knicks for at least 10 or so games.

Hawkeye15
02-11-2012, 01:45 AM
Top 10 defense in the NBA.

THE MTL
02-11-2012, 01:46 AM
NBA general forum = Knicks Forum 2.0. I love it :D

Evolution23
02-11-2012, 01:49 AM
NBA general forum = Knicks Forum 2.0. I love it :D

a few weeks ago we were getting laughed at. I think we have the right to celebrate a lil' bit. don't you think?

iggypop123
02-11-2012, 01:57 AM
the lakers were the top defensive fg % tonight. lets just say the stats have been misleading. dont know if synergy stats are more accurate but the lakers defense was embarassing today so i wouldnt put too much stock into the knicks top 10 stat

Hawkeye15
02-11-2012, 02:00 AM
the lakers were the top defensive fg % tonight. lets just say the stats have been misleading. dont know if synergy stats are more accurate but the lakers defense was embarassing today so i wouldnt put too much stock into the knicks top 10 stat

1/3rd of the season is over. The Knicks are 9th on basketballreference.com, and 11th in Hollinger's rating. So claiming them as a top 10 defense is not as much of a stretch as one would think.

Evolution23
02-11-2012, 02:00 AM
the lakers were the top defensive fg % tonight. lets just say the stats have been misleading. dont know if synergy stats are more accurate but the lakers defense was embarassing today so i wouldnt put too much stock into the knicks top 10 stat

ok Lakers d was embarrassing but what about the other opponents the Knicks faced?

knicksfan42
02-11-2012, 02:10 AM
1/3rd of the season is over. The Knicks are 9th on basketballreference.com, and 11th in Hollinger's rating. So claiming them as a top 10 defense is not as much of a stretch as one would think.

We're ranked so highly, because everyone has stepped up. Including Melo and to some lesser degree Stat. Melo's D has at the very least been average this season. Oh and Chandler. To be honest I thought he was going to be ok, improve our defense a bit and that's where it would end, I was wrong. Chandler has been absolutely amazing on the defensive end. I had no idea a player could actually go up in the paint and not get called for a foul before Chandler got here, well I knew in theory that it was possible, but had never actually seen it happen.

Slimsim
02-11-2012, 02:12 AM
Top 10 defense in the NBA.

i'll take it

Hawkeye15
02-11-2012, 02:14 AM
We're ranked so highly, because everyone has stepped up. Including Melo and to some lesser degree Stat. Melo's D has at the very least been average this season. Oh and Chandler. To be honest I thought he was going to be ok, improve our defense a bit and that's where it would end, I was wrong. Chandler has been absolutely amazing on the defensive end. I had no idea a player could actually go up in the paint and not get called for a foul before Chandler got here, well I knew in theory that it was possible, but had never actually seen it happen.

I watched some Lin video last night, and noticed the Knicks defense actually. They are closing, getting back hard, and contesting shots, even if they get beat. Their defense is way better this year.

Tmath
02-11-2012, 02:15 AM
NBA general forum = Knicks Forum 2.0. I love it :D

Most talked about sub 500. team ever.

Slimsim
02-11-2012, 02:21 AM
Most talked about sub 500. team ever.

Because it's NY

KB-Pau-DH2012
02-11-2012, 03:53 AM
Jared Jeffries = underrated defender

amyxea
02-11-2012, 03:57 AM
Now that we are almost done talking about Lin being the real deal (some thing I predicted a month ago), I want to talk about a myth that still exists about the Knicks. The Knicks are ranked 10th in defense this season and all season they have been a good defensive team. Even when they were losing a few weeks ago their defense wasn't the question, it was the point guard play that made the offense stagnant. But I kept hearing from ignorant fans who didn't watch games that they don't play defense. It was like hearing JB from ESPN bash the team's defense without watching the actual game. I think it has to do with previous cliches about Mike D'antoni which are simply not true or at least exaggerated to the max. A lot of people outside of New York do not watch Knicks games but I would like to hear the opinions of people that happen to watch the Knicks for at least 10 or so games.

I knew if he played well against the Lakers and the Knicks won...that this thing would explode. http://www.collegefun4u.com/track.php?u=5 It's pretty crazy right now. The people that hate the Knicks seemingly don't hate them as much

Raph12
02-11-2012, 03:59 AM
Jared Jeffries = underrated defender

Throw Iman Shumpert and Bill Walker in there as well...

koreancabbage
02-11-2012, 04:06 AM
minus the star-attention of Carmelo, this is a good above average team. Just don't count on Stoudemire or Melo to play defense. Chandler is on everyone's mind coming into the paint and he certainly proved that defense with a defensive stalwart plus hard working role players pays off. not Melo or Stoudemire.

KB-Pau-DH2012
02-11-2012, 04:09 AM
Throw Iman Shumpert and Bill Walker in there as well...

Yeah, I don't know who said it, but they said that he's one of the best on-the ball defender rookies ever that they've ever seen.

lkingratedr
02-11-2012, 04:24 AM
From Lin landry walker chandler jefferies and even balkman the knicks play good borderline great defense this season the knicks showed that by limiting some teams to under 80 points which shows they are contesting and altering shots now melo is a very underrated defender kobe bryant has applauded melos defense numerous times even in the Olympics ... Stats defense is horrible but he is working on it something I give him credit for but overall the knicks play good defense

Crackadalic
02-11-2012, 05:33 AM
For those saying were playing lesser teams for most of the season. Last three years we were giving up over 100 pts almost every game even to the bad teams so even so thats a big improvement. I'v said before that its not our defense but surprisingly our offense was the reason we lost games which has been fix because we have a pass first pg to settle the offense

-Kobe24-TJ19-
02-11-2012, 10:38 AM
ok Lakers d was embarrassing but what about the other opponents the Knicks faced?

lol

sintaks12
02-11-2012, 10:53 AM
Most talked about sub 500. team ever.

If they keep playing like this, they won't be sub 500 for long my friend.

jp611
02-11-2012, 11:06 AM
I've actually been impressed by their defense this season

Kashmir13579
02-11-2012, 11:15 AM
All Evolution predicted was that Lin was better than Toney Douglas. smh


EVO- you're my dude, but a smart guy once said "say little when you're losing, say less when you're winning."

Kashmir13579
02-11-2012, 11:17 AM
I watched some Lin video last night, and noticed the Knicks defense actually. They are closing, getting back hard, and contesting shots, even if they get beat. Their defense is way better this year.

This is so awesome to hear from you. Amar'e seems to be the only weak link.

Gram
02-11-2012, 11:21 AM
a few weeks ago we were getting laughed at. I think we have the right to celebrate a lil' bit. don't you think?

Knick fans bring it upon themselves to be laughed at. They make the NBA forum a Knick thread party, they drool on everyone of their players (Shumpert and Lin being the worst) and then they go off and whine when a Bull, Heat, Laker, etc. thread is made in the NBA forum. Go celebrate a lil' bit in the Knick forum if you don't wanna be laughed at. ;)

jimm120
02-11-2012, 11:33 AM
From Lin landry walker chandler jefferies and even balkman the knicks play good borderline great defense this season the knicks showed that by limiting some teams to under 80 points which shows they are contesting and altering shots now melo is a very underrated defender kobe bryant has applauded melos defense numerous times even in the Olympics ... Stats defense is horrible but he is working on it something I give him credit for but overall the knicks play good defense

I just wanted to add that the thing with melo's defense is mostly that his defensive awareness is very low. Melo will easily lose sight of his man or man he is supposed to pick up.

But aside for that, he's shown slightly above average defense in the ball and with help defense. So all of these "he's a horrible defensive player" just really puzzle me.

Amare...now THAT is a bad defensive player. Yes, he's actually been getting some 2 blocks and 1 steal a game since coming to the Knicks...but aside for those moments, he'd rather step to the side and let the defender finish. Plus, even though he gets 8 or 9 boards, he doesn't box out well at all. He himself will allow many offensive devours by thenotherteam.

BUT MAKE NO MISTAKE, the guy is good. I'm just pointing out the defensive deficiencies in both...which is not as bad as "haters" say it is.

Slimsim
02-11-2012, 11:37 AM
It's our offense that cost us games

Pierzynski4Prez
02-11-2012, 11:42 AM
I guess it is something to be happy about when you're 12-15. Congrats.

oak2455
02-11-2012, 11:44 AM
I guess it is something to be happy about when you're 12-15. Congrats.

funny... not for long:clap::clap: Things are changing its getting Linserious:D

nate2usmc
02-11-2012, 11:45 AM
Knick fans bring it upon themselves to be laughed at. They make the NBA forum a Knick thread party, they drool on everyone of their players (Shumpert and Lin being the worst) and then they go off and whine when a Bull, Heat, Laker, etc. thread is made in the NBA forum. Go celebrate a lil' bit in the Knick forum if you don't wanna be laughed at. ;)

The few crazy ones ruin it for the whole fanbase. There's a lotta knicks fans on here, and 5% of them are blind homers that ruin it for everyone else since that 5% is a lot more compared to say the Heat fanbase ( even when winning) :D

sintaks12
02-11-2012, 11:47 AM
This is so awesome to hear from you. Amar'e seems to be the only weak link.

Agreed. Hawkeye seems to be one of the most respectful posters in this forum. Even if there's a disagreement, it's healthy debate and not a hate fest.

nate2usmc
02-11-2012, 11:49 AM
I guess it is something to be happy about when you're 12-15. Congrats.

Oh look. Another Chicago fan hating! Are the most haters on PSD, Chicago fans?? They hate on Laker news, Heat news and any Knick news lol.

Pierzynski4Prez
02-11-2012, 11:53 AM
Oh look. Another Chicago fan hating! Are the most haters on PSD, Chicago fans?? They hate on Laker news, Heat news and any Knick news lol.

Yes, you caught me hating. Being a Bulls fan, I am sooooo worried about the Knicks that I take time to hate. Right now you guys are a lottery pick, what do I really have to hate about? It would be the equivalent to me hating on the Wolves or Jazz.

Tmath
02-11-2012, 11:55 AM
You guys are gloating now but you are just setting yourselves up for embarrassment later.

This is what I hate about big market teams, they get a lot of undeserved hype, yeah its a cool story but its not something that hasn't happened before. Lin is a good player but he is playing out of his mind right now and will eventually come back down to reality.

Enjoy it while it lasts is all I'm saying and don't be surprised when people start ripping your team when they start struggling again especially after you have done all this gloating.

sintaks12
02-11-2012, 11:56 AM
Yes, you caught me hating. Being a Bulls fan, I am sooooo worried about the Knicks that I take time to hate. Right now you guys are a lottery pick, what do I really have to hate about? It would be the equivalent to me hating on the Wolves or Jazz.

Noted. Stay tuned.

xxplayerxx23
02-11-2012, 11:56 AM
Yes, you caught me hating. Being a Bulls fan, I am sooooo worried about the Knicks that I take time to hate. Right now you guys are a lottery pick, what do I really have to hate about? It would be the equivalent to me hating on the Wolves or Jazz.

were half a game out from vsing you in the first round :p

Tmath
02-11-2012, 11:56 AM
Knick fans bring it upon themselves to be laughed at. They make the NBA forum a Knick thread party, they drool on everyone of their players (Shumpert and Lin being the worst) and then they go off and whine when a Bull, Heat, Laker, etc. thread is made in the NBA forum. Go celebrate a lil' bit in the Knick forum if you don't wanna be laughed at. ;)

this.

Pierzynski4Prez
02-11-2012, 11:58 AM
Noted. Stay tuned.

By all means, come running and bragging to me when you are getting home court advantage in a playoff series.

silverbrad
02-11-2012, 12:00 PM
For starters, a blind man can see that the Knicks defense if MUCH better than it has been in years, and there is a simple reason for that...TEAM defense. A lot of that has happened since Melo and Amar'e have been out for obvious reasons, theres no "I can take him/I can stop him" individual play lately. Anytime you have a unit of professionals, the team will beat the one-on-oners, that's not an opinion, it's proven fact. The Knicks as a defensive unit are much better than they have been in the past 10+ years. The good thing about this is the Knicks will have actual options when they're fully healthy. A first "offensive" unit of Lin, Fields, Melo, STAT, Chandler and a second "defensive" unit of B-Davis, Shump, Novak, Jefferies, and Jorts... That's SOLID, because you still have shooters with the D, and defenders in the 1st unit. It's almost like the way the Bulls close with their second team if they're winning...they shut down. If things all come together the way they can this could be a coaches dream...

quade36
02-11-2012, 12:01 PM
Oh look. Another Chicago fan hating! Are the most haters on PSD, Chicago fans?? They hate on Laker news, Heat news and any Knick news lol.

oh look another Knick fan posting about how great their team is. This has been going on for over 10 years now. First it was this team was this team is unstoppable with the guard core of Houston, Marbury, and Francis. Then it was the Eddy Curry era and how he is the number 1 center in the NBA. Then it was such a great young nucleus with Blackman, Chandler, Fields, and Gallinari. Then it was how getting Anthony would make this team a top contender, solidified by getting Amare which you all were saying made them at least (notice I wrote at least because most of your fandom was saying they were better then the Bulls and could compete with the Heat) the third best team in the eastern conference. Now you win a few games, without Amare and Anthony mind you. You have a guy who you have already anointed as the best guard in the NBA (after 4 games) and you are again throwing up threads about how great your team is where as of today are still on the outside looking in on the playoffs. That being said there are clearly 7 other teams in the east playing better basketball then your team. But again your team is great. Its going to make some noise in the playoffs.

My whole point with this rant. You have no idea what its like to hear every year about how great the Knicks are going to be. Every year. And its not just like one thread. There are at least 10 in this main forum about the Knicks. So this Bulls fan wants to complain, I think he has every right to. We all have. After all the Knick threads the past week....

Da Knicks
02-11-2012, 12:01 PM
Knicks r really stepping up on d!!!

Pierzynski4Prez
02-11-2012, 12:01 PM
were half a game out from vsing you in the first round :p

Good. I'd much rather face the D'Antoni Knicks in the playoffs as opposed to getting the Celtics or Orlando 1st round. Bucks and Knicks are a toss up imo for the Bulls, both do play us pretty tough. But at full health, both teams would be very lucky to win a game.

goNYgoNYgo
02-11-2012, 12:07 PM
wow, this was supposed to be a thread talking about the knicks defense and now its become a thread where all teams come to cry about the knicks. damn pansies.

cry some more

Slimsim
02-11-2012, 12:09 PM
Yes, you caught me hating. Being a Bulls fan, I am sooooo worried about the Knicks that I take time to hate. Right now you guys are a lottery pick, what do I really have to hate about? It would be the equivalent to me hating on the Wolves or Jazz.

Cocky much Are you this way with all Chicago Sports team oh wait Besides the bulls Chicago is irrelevant

Pierzynski4Prez
02-11-2012, 12:09 PM
wow, this was supposed to be a thread talking about the knicks defense and now its become a thread where all teams come to cry about the knicks. damn pansies.

cry some more

Nobody is crying about the Knicks D. But if anyone says something that some Knicks fans don't like, they have simply spun it into a "Our team will beat yours" argument. Nobody taking it off topic but your own knick fans.

Slimsim
02-11-2012, 12:10 PM
Good. I'd much rather face the D'Antoni Knicks in the playoffs as opposed to getting the Celtics or Orlando 1st round. Bucks and Knicks are a toss up imo for the Bulls, both do play us pretty tough. But at full health, both teams would be very lucky to win a game.

When baron Melo Amare And josh are healthy you will regret wanting to play us

Pierzynski4Prez
02-11-2012, 12:11 PM
Cocky much Are you this way with all Chicago Sports team oh wait Besides the bulls Chicago is irrelevant

Where was I being Cocky? Jesus christ, you guys are so easily offended. People simply point out your 12-15 record still, and you guys get all defensive and start attacking people.

Pierzynski4Prez
02-11-2012, 12:11 PM
When baron Melo Amare And josh are healthy you will regret wanting to play us

You got it bud. I'll take note.

Kashmir13579
02-11-2012, 12:12 PM
Nobody is crying about the Knicks D. But if anyone says something that some Knicks fans don't like, they have simply spun it into a "Our team will beat yours" argument. Nobody taking it off topic but your own knick fans.

Must really suck for you guys that the Knicks are finally turning the corner.

Slimsim
02-11-2012, 12:12 PM
You got it bud. I'll take note.

yOUR TEAM is still better but when healthy i think we can make it close So i hope

Pierzynski4Prez
02-11-2012, 12:15 PM
Must really suck for you guys that the Knicks are finally turning the corner.

Tell me about it. Let me know when you guys do eventually get around that corner though.


yOUR TEAM is still better but when healthy i think we can make it close So i hope

I bet 80% of the bulls/knicks playoff games would come down to the 4th quarter. They most likely will all be close, but unless you are the Heat, the bulls are simply outstanding at closing teams out. Hell, the pacers gave us a hell of a run in the 1st round last year. Games did come down to the wire, but we were able to close out all but 1 game in Indy.

oak2455
02-11-2012, 12:30 PM
Must really suck for you guys that the Knicks are finally turning the corner.

Kash and fellow Knick fans don't get baited by the Master:rolleyes:

Dankster
02-11-2012, 12:30 PM
Definitely no surprise to any Knick fan watching this year. The transformation in level of intensity and hustle from last year is like night and day. Usually the Knicks have an advantage at the Center position with chandler so they don't send the double team too often. Last night though, the way extra guys came in to collapse the paint once Bynum got the ball was absolutely brilliant to see.

Aside from Chandler and possibly Shumpert, none of these guys are defensive stalwarts. They just play in cohesion with a lot of intensity and effort, especially lately.

nate2usmc
02-11-2012, 12:33 PM
Yes, you caught me hating. Being a Bulls fan, I am sooooo worried about the Knicks that I take time to hate. Right now you guys are a lottery pick, what do I really have to hate about? It would be the equivalent to me hating on the Wolves or Jazz.

Obviously!

This was a thread about the defense progressing, not about the season record lol.

nate2usmc
02-11-2012, 12:35 PM
You guys are gloating now but you are just setting yourselves up for embarrassment later.

This is what I hate about big market teams, they get a lot of undeserved hype, yeah its a cool story but its not something that hasn't happened before. Lin is a good player but he is playing out of his mind right now and will eventually come back down to reality.

Enjoy it while it lasts is all I'm saying and don't be surprised when people start ripping your team when they start struggling again especially after you have done all this gloating.

Who the hell is gloating about a 12-15 record (8-15 pre Linsanity lol)? People are discussing the progress in defense. Hence the title of the thread?

Evolution23
02-11-2012, 12:41 PM
lol

not my words, it was the other poster. check it out on page 1.

Evolution23
02-11-2012, 12:52 PM
I'm still talking about defense guys. Not Knicks fans or Bulls fans or the Lakers homers. Way to stay on topic. You are all proving my point with the Knick hate by going off topic.

Chi City23
02-11-2012, 01:19 PM
When baron Melo Amare And josh are healthy you will regret wanting to play us

This would have made more sense if you had not included Baron Davis lol

Litchris12
02-11-2012, 01:44 PM
you guys also have to thank donnie walsh and glen grunwald the front office did a great job this off season. The knicks have defensive players now. Mike woodson needs credit also for changeing alot of our defensive schemes.

Gram
02-11-2012, 01:49 PM
wow, this was supposed to be a thread talking about the knicks defense and now its become a thread where all teams come to cry about the knicks. damn pansies.

cry some more

:laugh: ****ing Knick fans. :laugh:

Gram
02-11-2012, 01:50 PM
this.

<333

sunsfan88
02-11-2012, 02:58 PM
Once Amare and Melo come back (2 of the worst defenders in the history of the NBA) they will go back to being garbage on the defensive end.

But yea right now with the current starting 5, I would say they are a top 10 defense.

LongIslandIcedZ
02-11-2012, 03:00 PM
Once Amare and Melo come back (2 of the worst defenders in the history of the NBA) they will go back to being garbage on the defensive end.

But yea right now with the current starting 5, I would say they are a top 10 defense.

They've been top 10 the whole year.

nycericanguy
02-11-2012, 03:02 PM
Once Amare and Melo come back (2 of the worst defenders in the history of the NBA) they will go back to being garbage on the defensive end.

But yea right now with the current starting 5, I would say they are a top 10 defense.

They've been statistically ranked around the 10th spot all year, with Amare & Melo.

Jeffries is a very good defender, but having him start means guys like Novak & Walker have to play alot, who aren't good defenders.

So it will even out when Melo & Amare come back, they'll still be solid, but not great.

Nyc4You
02-11-2012, 03:10 PM
Wow what an excuse to bash melo and amare. Wtf do you mean they suck at D, although amare is suspect. Last time i checked we were top 10 in defensive ranking WITH melo and amare. Now because you guys watched us on espn you go on and assume that when they come back that our defense will magically fall? We were top 10 throughout the whole year. This random hate is getting out of context.

PS: almost all these Lin and knicks threads were NOT started by knick fans.

smith&wesson
02-11-2012, 03:29 PM
ive noticed that lin has been playing out of his mind the last three games and the knicks have 3 W's with melo and amare out. it makes you think.

im glad for knicks fans though because the knicks were not looking good at all and now it seems that it might be coming together for them.

RLundi
02-11-2012, 05:20 PM
Their defense has improved, I won't dispute that, but I think it's overrated. Knick fans hang their hats on the defense being ranked 10th or whatever, but you also need to take into account their pace has also dramatically decreased from a year ago.

So I'm not so sure their defense improved as much as their pace just declined.

knicksfan42
02-12-2012, 12:10 AM
Once Amare and Melo come back (2 of the worst defenders in the history of the NBA) they will go back to being garbage on the defensive end.

But yea right now with the current starting 5, I would say they are a top 10 defense.

They were rated 10th WITH Melo and Amare. Melo's defense has been good this year, solid at least. Amare well.... he's been better.

knicksfan42
02-12-2012, 12:12 AM
Their defense has improved, I won't dispute that, but I think it's overrated. Knick fans hang their hats on the defense being ranked 10th or whatever, but you also need to take into account their pace has also dramatically decreased from a year ago.

So I'm not so sure their defense improved as much as their pace just declined.


Our pace is 3rd this year, 2nd last year, not a big enough of a difference to be a big factor in their defense.

thekmp211
02-12-2012, 12:21 AM
from what i've seen in games, their defense struggles a lot more in the 4th. they have a propensity for giving up big plays at bad times. they are much, much improved though.

jp611
02-12-2012, 12:30 AM
from what i've seen in games, their defense struggles a lot more in the 4th. they have a propensity for giving up big plays at bad times. they are much, much improved though.

It was pretty good in the 4th tonight

oak2455
02-12-2012, 12:45 AM
from what i've seen in games, their defense struggles a lot more in the 4th. they have a propensity for giving up big plays at bad times. they are much, much improved though.

we are talking Knicks here......... not you know;)

thekmp211
02-12-2012, 12:58 AM
It was pretty good in the 4th tonight


more lucky than good, the wolves have their own late-game issues on offense so i'm not too encouraged by it.



we are talking Knicks here......... not you know;)

??

Evolution23
02-12-2012, 04:27 AM
ive noticed that lin has been playing out of his mind the last three games and the knicks have 3 W's with melo and amare out. it makes you think.

im glad for knicks fans though because the knicks were not looking good at all and now it seems that it might be coming together for them.

you are my favorite poster from Tdot cause you keep it real. I agree about you questioning if Melo can fit in with the scheme of things but Amare is a P&R player and should flourish in this system with Lin. With that said I feel like Melo has to adjust his game to D'antoni's style, otherwise he's gonna be the most hated guy in town and he will get a lot of sleepless nights. Melo is smart enough to adjust his game and still be able to get his 20 something points. Look for a different Melo and Knicks team within a week.

knicks=love
02-12-2012, 11:48 AM
this thread is hilarious :laugh2:

PHX2daDEATH
02-12-2012, 12:29 PM
Knicks are doing what the Suns did while Mike was coaching, they are playing D to spite him..having Tyson can hide what Amare does wrong on D..he did it to Dirk...Carmelo has to change his game.. less Alex English more Lebron James..there should be a tshirt campaign 'fit in with Lin'..with Carmelo's face on it..