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View Full Version : Thoughts on Farrell heading into his 2nd year?



statquo
02-05-2012, 02:59 PM
Saw a lot of different opinion on coach last year, so what are some things you guys would like to see him improve on/change/stay with as he heads into his second season with a bit more expectation?

For me, I'd like to see some development with our pitchers. Maybe even utilize the steal a bit more with Rasmus and Lawrie in the lineup.

phillipmike
02-05-2012, 03:13 PM
Cant complain. He was a rookie coach and didnt make any huge moves that i disagreed with.

Last year he did not have a good team to start the season at all so it is hard to judge him.

Since the start of last season he now has a full season of Lawrie, Johnson, Rasmus, Thames/Snider, and Lind. Add a very good (mind you on paper) re-built bullpen and perhaps a true closer in Santos. Having that gives him the confidence and the presence of mind that not a lot of (hard) decisions are needed to be made.

If he does not have to worry about that then i will say he will be in an advantageous position. All he would have to "worry" about or work on is our rotation (which clearly needs help). But as a former pitching coach i think it is a very good match and a great position to use his strengths with the young guys and McGowan.

Also add in that after a historic collapse of such a rich franchise the Red Sox targeted him as their number one candidate to take over as their manager. That is A LOT of trust and confidence they had in him. That has to speak for something after his first year as a manager - also add in that they were willing to pay some type of compensation for him.

It looks like AA made the right move hiring and keeping him. Being a wanted man has got to increase his confidence which may improve his decision making.

In 2012 i think he finally has a team to work with and this season will be a very important growing season for the players and Farrell.

Cant wait for the season to start!

wamco
02-05-2012, 05:00 PM
hard to judge a manager of a team that is perfectly content with a 4th place finsh.

rapsjaysfan88
02-05-2012, 05:13 PM
hard to judge a manager of a team that is perfectly content with a 4th place finsh.

say what you will about management but I doubt the players and manager are content on finishing in 4th.

phillipmike
02-05-2012, 05:14 PM
hard to judge a manager of a team that is perfectly content with a 4th place finsh.

Or listen to a "fan' who criticizes them left, right and center.

Instead of complaining all the time about being mistreated as a fan - if i were you i would find another team to cheer for.

Because you take every post no matter how harmless or positive it can be and turn it into something negative.

Halladay
02-05-2012, 05:51 PM
hard to judge a manager of a team that is perfectly content with a 4th place finsh.

With an improved pen, much improved pen actually, you can make a fair assesment of Farrel. Last years bullpen was a joke.

toronto#1fan
02-05-2012, 05:55 PM
dont like him at all, should have added francona and let the bum go back to boston

PJ Awesome
02-05-2012, 05:58 PM
Don't love him yet, but I like him. I respect the fact that he was a rookie manager and did a pretty good job with the team IMO. He DID make some bad pitching moves, like not knowing when to change the pitcher, and not knowing when he NEEDS to change the god damn pitcher

JermanJaysFan
02-05-2012, 05:59 PM
As a leader, I think he is excellent. He knows how to deal with players, media, and upper management, and is overall a solid "baseball guy".

Tactically, there were certainly some question marks last year. However, he was ALWAYS ready to acknowledge his mistakes and examine areas where he could improve, so I am sure we will see him makes some serious strides in this department in the coming season.

Overall, I am quite happy with him manning the ship here.

phillipmike
02-05-2012, 06:27 PM
now that is offtopic, baiting, and a personal attack and will be reported as such.

You could have just commented on what I said, and I stand by it. Just like the Buffalo Bills, not many people are spending too much time judging the coaching job the head coach was responsible for as noone expected the team to be anything worth watching any how. In non-competing years, the head coach is given more rope than in competitive years, see Francona, Terry and Farrell, John. Not really that offensive of a comment. There is a reason there are 20K seats filled (sometimes) and 30K open seats.

and yes, this "fan" was catching games at the Ex probably before you were born, and have defended the jays for 20 years living in Yankees country, I am their biggest fan, so no thanks, I'll pass on your offer to "cheer for another team". Plus cheering is for girls.

This is a topic about John Farrell and the fans thoughts on how we think he will do in his 2nd year as the Manager.

I do not see how your comment is useful or on topic. Insinuating that the team is content on a 4th place finish is the responsibility on management and ownership not coaching. Farrell cannot do a thing with the product that is put on the field or how much money the team spends. His job is to coach with what he has.

Your comment has nothing to do about Farrell's abilities in the upcoming season. Notice within an hour of your comment it has 3 people (including me) responding to it (and not in a positive way) and no one having problems with what i said? That's because i respected the OP and his thread and decided to offer something insightful that is on-topic not criticize the organization.

Look at what PJ Awesome and JermanJaysFan posted. There posted an assessment about Farrell's 1st year and what he can bring this season. They brought up both positive and negative attributes, which is on topic.

My post has facts in it. Yours is speculation that adds nothing to the thread but negative feeling about management and ownership. This is Farrell's 2ND year as manager and has no control of how many 4th place teams preceded him and what team is given to him.

I do not see how my comments are report-able but feel free to report it.

Billyen
02-05-2012, 06:28 PM
Ya...win more games than last year.

statquo
02-05-2012, 06:31 PM
hard to judge a manager of a team that is perfectly content with a 4th place finsh.

Ya that's not an assessment of Farrell wams thats ownership who wants to be in 4th place. Tell us what you think of coach farrell not ownership.

phillipmike
02-05-2012, 07:00 PM
Ya that's not an assessment of Farrell wams thats ownership who wants to be in 4th place. Tell us what you think of coach farrell not ownership.

Sorry dude, i didnt mean to hijack your thread. But it is getting annoying to see people get off-topic of something that could be very interesting into something about criticizing management and ownership in a thread about nothing to do with it rather the positives about our coach.

Anyways i think Farrell is going to show us what he can do with a good team. He will have is negatives as he is only in his 2nd season as a Manager but he will have more positives in my mind.

People forget that he missed some time with an illness. He should be a bright spot.

scaramantula
02-05-2012, 07:52 PM
he had almost nothing to work with last year, with a decent bench and a rebuilt bullpen he actually has some options

DeRozan10
02-06-2012, 12:03 AM
Or listen to a "fan' who criticizes them left, right and center.

Instead of complaining all the time about being mistreated as a fan - if i were you i would find another team to cheer for.

Because you take every post no matter how harmless or positive it can be and turn it into something negative.

Haha thiiiis!!

X100000000000

2009mvp
02-06-2012, 04:08 PM
Camp has big platoon splits, should be RH specialist, but he faced 47% LHBs last year. Better usage could lead to nice bump in numbers.
https://twitter.com/#!/d_a_cameron/status/166612175249620994

Farrell seems to be a fine leader and he always says the right thing to the press, if he can cut down on the egregious mistakes like the one above he'll be fine.

JermanJaysFan
02-06-2012, 06:10 PM
https://twitter.com/#!/d_a_cameron/status/166612175249620994

Farrell seems to be a fine leader and he always says the right thing to the press, if he can cut down on the egregious mistakes like the one above he'll be fine.That is clearly a bullpen management mistake, but I am optimistic that he will be better in this regard this year. He hasn't pulled any punches in criticizing his own work last season, and has particularly mentioned that bullpen management was not a strength for him last year. Plus, he has a better-defined BP staff this year, which can only help his cause.

2009mvp
02-06-2012, 07:19 PM
Oh I agree, I fully expect him to be better. I think you're always gonna disagree with a lot of your manager's decisions regardless of who holds that spot, but as long as he can avoid the obvious miscues like letting Camp face a ton of RHB the way he did last year (dude makes every lefty look like Prince Fielder, it's kind of amazing) I'll be reasonably happy with him.

Nofear
02-06-2012, 07:51 PM
For a guy that was a pitching coach, I thought Farrell was brutal last year with his pitcher. Maybe I set the bar too high since he was a pitching coach but he should have put his guys in positions to be successful just from that background but he didn't. For example:

1. Camp faced way too many lefties (as noted above)
2. He always yanked Morrow the first sign of trouble or velocity dip. He never gave him a chance to work thru anything
3. One game back in May (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=310509114) he pulled Morrow in the fourth after a K that got a guy on due to WP, a BB a single and a double an line out and walk. So Morrow gets yanked when it should have been a single run and two out but gets hooked for Camp to come in and get rocked by two lefties Martinez and Kelly. To top it off he had Dotel come in in the sixth to face 4 lefties and he gave up a four spot. Brutal game management
4. When you blow that many saves, the manager has to be accountable for some of it. Enough said.
5. He seemed to used the soft tossers when he needed K's and he wasted the strike out pitchers when he needed to get two or three guys out

To me, the biggest mistakes he made were on the pitching end which was quite suprising. The only other major issues I seen was the leadoff and two spot but I do understand why he wanted a high on base guy like Escobar at the top rather than trying to get a steals guy at the leadoff spot and having him get out alot. Not sure even now wtf he was doing with the two spot (or to a lesser extent the JPA 9th and no Bautista protection though he didn't have too many options)

The only other thing I noticed was the first game or to was run run run and the team sort of got away from the aggressiveness as the season wore on. I think that was a mistake.

Overall I think Farrell did well with no glaring mistakes other than a game or two. He needs to improve but clearly shouldn't be chopped as he didn't do too much wrong for the most part. However the pitching mistakes he made should be something to keep an eye on going forward as they clearly shouldn't happen when pitching is suppose to be the area of strength for the manager. Farrell shouldn't be making Cito type mistakes. Vets like Dotel didn't have many nice things to say either about how Farrell managed.

I will say one more thing, Farrell should have squashed the Boston/Bucholz thing the minute it was published. He should have stepped right up and said "No FN' way I'm going to Boston, I'm staying in TO" but he didn't do that only went the no comment route. The fact he never said anything spoke more about him as a person and makes me believe he would have went if AA let him. To me that's Bravo Sierra and is very telling about him.

craigerlee
02-06-2012, 09:13 PM
For a guy that was a pitching coach, I thought Farrell was brutal last year with his pitcher. Maybe I set the bar too high since he was a pitching coach but he should have put his guys in positions to be successful just from that background but he didn't. For example:

1. Camp faced way too many lefties (as noted above)
2. He always yanked Morrow the first sign of trouble or velocity dip. He never gave him a chance to work thru anything
3. One game back in May (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=310509114) he pulled Morrow in the fourth after a K that got a guy on due to WP, a BB a single and a double an line out and walk. So Morrow gets yanked when it should have been a single run and two out but gets hooked for Camp to come in and get rocked by two lefties Martinez and Kelly. To top it off he had Dotel come in in the sixth to face 4 lefties and he gave up a four spot. Brutal game management
4. When you blow that many saves, the manager has to be accountable for some of it. Enough said.
5. He seemed to used the soft tossers when he needed K's and he wasted the strike out pitchers when he needed to get two or three guys out

To me, the biggest mistakes he made were on the pitching end which was quite suprising. The only other major issues I seen was the leadoff and two spot but I do understand why he wanted a high on base guy like Escobar at the top rather than trying to get a steals guy at the leadoff spot and having him get out alot. Not sure even now wtf he was doing with the two spot (or to a lesser extent the JPA 9th and no Bautista protection though he didn't have too many options)

The only other thing I noticed was the first game or to was run run run and the team sort of got away from the aggressiveness as the season wore on. I think that was a mistake.

Overall I think Farrell did well with no glaring mistakes other than a game or two. He needs to improve but clearly shouldn't be chopped as he didn't do too much wrong for the most part. However the pitching mistakes he made should be something to keep an eye on going forward as they clearly shouldn't happen when pitching is suppose to be the area of strength for the manager. Farrell shouldn't be making Cito type mistakes. Vets like Dotel didn't have many nice things to say either about how Farrell managed.

I will say one more thing, Farrell should have squashed the Boston/Bucholz thing the minute it was published. He should have stepped right up and said "No FN' way I'm going to Boston, I'm staying in TO" but he didn't do that only went the no comment route. The fact he never said anything spoke more about him as a person and makes me believe he would have went if AA let him. To me that's Bravo Sierra and is very telling about him.

I agree with you the pen and the 2 hole was probably where he made his biggest mistakes.

As for the Boston thing I don't see how he could of handled it any different, apparently AA asked for Bucholz. It seems Toronto was willing to part with him if they could land a mid rotation starter. So I can see why he didn't wanna quash that rumour cause if it was true and miraculously went through he just told his new employers he doesn't wanna work for them. Also to if Toronto granted him permission to get out of his contract it shows they don't really see value in him, so I'd leave for Boston to if the Jays thought I was expendable.

JermanJaysFan
02-06-2012, 10:01 PM
Oh I agree, I fully expect him to be better. I think you're always gonna disagree with a lot of your manager's decisions regardless of who holds that spot, but as long as he can avoid the obvious miscues like letting Camp face a ton of RHB the way he did last year (dude makes every lefty look like Prince Fielder, it's kind of amazing) I'll be reasonably happy with him.
Yeah, agreed.

Sometimes, I feel fans are a bit quick to criticize without knowing all the information. A manager might make a decision that on paper looks idiotic, but in reality fans really aren't able to factor in the "pulse of the clubhouse", as it were, into the decision. This doesn't really come into play so much in this Camp example, but certainly would in some smaller game-to-game decisions. Things like when fans scream at the TV "Why is he using _______ as a pinch hitter instead of ________???" or "Why is he bringing _________ in to pitch instead of _________???". Maybe some of these cases are just simply the manager making the wrong decision, but it is also possible that there might be something he knows that we don't- like a certain player approached him before the game saying they weren't feeling quite 100% or things of that nature.

StealingSigns
02-06-2012, 11:18 PM
I expect a better year from him. And by going from his interviews with various media and appearances on PTS, he does too.

Farrell is the first to admit he did not manage the bullpen effectively, left starters in too long etc.

His rookie campaign was a learning experience, and it seems he has at least recognized his shortcomings. Time will tell if he is able to correct these issues.

AA09-?
02-07-2012, 10:23 AM
hard to judge a manager of a team that is perfectly content with a 4th place finsh.

I don't do this very often, but here you go....:facepalm:

AA09-?
02-07-2012, 10:24 AM
dont like him at all, should have added francona and let the bum go back to boston

Could you elaborate on this? Not sure why you feel this way?

Nofear
02-07-2012, 10:01 PM
I agree with you the pen and the 2 hole was probably where he made his biggest mistakes.

As for the Boston thing I don't see how he could of handled it any different, apparently AA asked for Bucholz. It seems Toronto was willing to part with him if they could land a mid rotation starter. So I can see why he didn't wanna quash that rumour cause if it was true and miraculously went through he just told his new employers he doesn't wanna work for them. Also to if Toronto granted him permission to get out of his contract it shows they don't really see value in him, so I'd leave for Boston to if the Jays thought I was expendable.

Not sure I agree with your Boston take. The minute AA said he wasn't going anywhere Farrell should have came out and endorsed the Jays. The fact that he didn't do that is rather puzzling and make me think he was all for the deal.

craigerlee
02-07-2012, 11:03 PM
Not sure I agree with your Boston take. The minute AA said he wasn't going anywhere Farrell should have came out and endorsed the Jays. The fact that he didn't do that is rather puzzling and make me think he was all for the deal.

I'm pretty sure he did once the Jays changed their policy on lateral moves.
This was Farrell's official comment before the policy change:

"I have no idea and no comment on what's happening in Boston," Farrell wrote to sportsnet.ca. "I am focused right now on preparing for what is best for the Blue Jays in 2012."
MLB.com (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20111024&content_id=25775024&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb)

I don't know what else he could of said considering there might of been the possibility the Jays traded him or allowed the Red Sox permission to interview him. He had only been on the job for one season, its not like he was firmly entrenched as manager. I don't know about you, but if there's a potentially higher paying job that could lead to more success I'm gonna take that interview.

statquo
02-08-2012, 01:46 AM
Yes bullpen management needs to be better too. But, for me, number one still has to be our starters. When Bautista started hitting, he praised Cito and D-Murph for helping him. I want to see Cecil or Morrow or Drabek or whoever take their game to the next level, and when asked about it say they couldn't have done it without Farrell. He was a pitching coach for a contending team, I'd like to see some of that translate over, whether its getting a guy over the hump when they're underachieving, or a rookie stepping in and being an impact arm because of him.

fatkev78
02-11-2012, 12:35 AM
hard to judge a manager of a team that is perfectly content with a 4th place finsh.


now that is offtopic, baiting, and a personal attack and will be reported as such.

You bait, someone bites and now you're going to go tell? You're making yourself look childish....

As for JF he gave himself a 'C' grade which I think is fair. I like that he is aware of his failures (BP) and is looking to improve. Anyone who passed AA's interview process has to be a keeper.

NS_Jays_Fan
02-11-2012, 10:00 AM
Farrell comes off as a smart guy, who will definitely learn from his first season. I think now that we have a much more defined bullpen, his decision making will be clear cut. I hope he learns to be more casual during interviews. Last year he was very dry.

StealingSigns
02-11-2012, 10:29 AM
Farrell comes off as a smart guy, who will definitely learn from his first season. I think now that we have a much more defined bullpen, his decision making will be clear cut. I hope he learns to be more casual during interviews. Last year he was very dry.

Welcome to the forum.

NS_Jays_Fan
02-11-2012, 10:44 AM
Thanks dude, I've been reading it everyday for the last 4 years, thought I'd start offering some insight.

passengershawn
02-11-2012, 05:07 PM
hopefully he'll figure out how to best use his starting staff...I was a little unimpressed how he did that last year, especially being an ex-pitching coach with a great staff in Boston. But we did have a lot of injuries. He'll need to best figure out if Charlie V is best used as a middle reliever, or a 5-6 inning starter. As well, McGowan will need some coaching and development in a skillful manner coming back from all those injuries. Plus Farrell needs to lay down the law with Rasmus if he keeps up the "I don't need coaching' attitude.

All in all he seemed to be a competent manager and player-friendly guy. Tough to have too accurate a perception at this point...this season should tell more...and even more if AA can add another big bat and/or legit #2 SP.

fatkev78
02-11-2012, 08:50 PM
Interesting, my 1st deleted post....so how does this work: X number of deleted posts equals a ban? If not it should be - could be a good way to keep track of trouble makers.

ink
02-11-2012, 09:42 PM
This is a topic about John Farrell and the fans thoughts on how we think he will do in his 2nd year as the Manager.

I do not see how your comment is useful or on topic. Insinuating that the team is content on a 4th place finish is the responsibility on management and ownership not coaching. Farrell cannot do a thing with the product that is put on the field or how much money the team spends. His job is to coach with what he has.

Your comment has nothing to do about Farrell's abilities in the upcoming season. Notice within an hour of your comment it has 3 people (including me) responding to it (and not in a positive way) and no one having problems with what i said? That's because i respected the OP and his thread and decided to offer something insightful that is on-topic not criticize the organization.

Look at what PJ Awesome and JermanJaysFan posted. There posted an assessment about Farrell's 1st year and what he can bring this season. They brought up both positive and negative attributes, which is on topic.

My post has facts in it. Yours is speculation that adds nothing to the thread but negative feeling about management and ownership. This is Farrell's 2ND year as manager and has no control of how many 4th place teams preceded him and what team is given to him.

I do not see how my comments are report-able but feel free to report it.

Well said.

bomber0104
02-11-2012, 10:31 PM
As you guys probably know, i'm not a fan of the guy.. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for being a rookie manager although i dont think that matters when you have been sitting on the bench of a contender for 5 years

50 games to see how he does

LechWalesa
02-12-2012, 12:34 AM
How do you quantify his performance, given those 50 games? What would be the grounds for firing him?

bomber0104
02-12-2012, 12:53 AM
How do you quantify his performance, given those 50 games? What would be the grounds for firing him?

I dont really go by team performance but rather by his moves in tough situations and how the pan out.. I thought he made a lot of questionable decisions last year, a few of which easily cost us games