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SensandRaps
02-03-2012, 07:56 PM
Manny Ramirez could be returning to the majors in 2012.

The 39-year-old slugger is deciding between the Toronto Blue Jays, Oakland Athletics and Baltimore Orioles, according to a report from ESPNDeportes.com

Ramirez does not have a formal contract offer from any of the three teams but his agent will start negotiating once the veteran outfielder decides on a team.

He has been training in Miami since December and the Blue Jays were reportedly one of a handful of teams that saw Ramirez hit in a batting cage.

According to the report, Oakland would provide the best opportunity for Ramirez to play on a consistent basis.

The Dominican Republic native, who abruptly retired after being handed a 100-game suspension last season, hit .059 in five games with the Tampa Bay Rays in 2011.

Ramirez is a career .312 hitter with 555 home runs and 1,831 RBIs in 19 seasons with the Cleveland Indians, Boston Red Sox, Los Angeles Dodgers, Chicago White Sox and the Rays.

If signed, Ramirez would still have to serve a 50-game penalty.


http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2012/02/03/ramirez_blue_jays/


thoughts? i like manny and wouldnt mind giving him a shot, at best we get a bat for cheap at worst we can cut him if he doesnt work out

North Yorker
02-03-2012, 08:01 PM
He would be an ok add I guess.

Gives the Lind/EE experiment 50 more games and if one of them is struggling then he wouldnt be a horrible option, since we have nothing coming up in the minors at 1B/DH anyways.

nstojic
02-03-2012, 08:11 PM
just saw that on MLBTR... I find it odd how they time a report that has the A's and O's really interested in him and then the most recent one has HIM interested in A's O's Jays... almost as if some agents is throwing the Jays name into the rumor mill cause it's been the sexy thing to do, this offseason...

Krylian
02-03-2012, 08:13 PM
This.......is a recording.

SensandRaps
02-03-2012, 08:15 PM
He would be an ok add I guess.

Gives the Lind/EE experiment 50 more games and if one of them is struggling then he wouldnt be a horrible option, since we have nothing coming up in the minors at 1B/DH anyways.

thats what im thinking and also i know this is a big if but if manny is willing to be a bench player at first to show some consistency i would much rather have him on the bench than Francisco, it will actually give us a bench bat who can be a threat

mad_mooney
02-03-2012, 08:18 PM
Awful idea....just awful.

If the Jays are close by the end of the 50 games and in need of offence, they'd be better off trading some of the pitching depth for a younger hitter who isn't coming back from an absence of nearly 2 years.

If they're not close, they'd be better off using 1B/DH to get some of their younger up-and-comers some AB's.

Ramirez would be a waste of a roster spot.

wamco
02-03-2012, 08:43 PM
how did his suspension go from 100g to 50g?

BATSKY87
02-03-2012, 08:46 PM
thats what im thinking and also i know this is a big if but if manny is willing to be a bench player at first to show some consistency i would much rather have him on the bench than Francisco, it will actually give us a bench bat who can be a threat

Except for the fact that Manny couldn't even play defense in his prime, let alone now after two years off. Not much of a bench player if you can never use him in the field.

mike_noodles
02-03-2012, 08:54 PM
I just heard on the Fan that apparently three teams have offered him a contract, the Jays being one of them. All I have to say is WTF!? IMO this goes against everything they've been doing.

SensandRaps
02-03-2012, 08:55 PM
Except for the fact that Manny couldn't even play defense in his prime, let alone now after two years off. Not much of a bench player if you can never use him in the field.

a pinch hitter maybe? than make a defensive swap to put him at dh, it would require some work but if mannys bat in training camp is anything like what it used to be you make it work. if we can keep davis with us on the bench mainly as a pinch runner why cant we do the same thing with manny?

SensandRaps
02-03-2012, 08:56 PM
I just heard on the Fan that apparently three teams have offered him a contract, the Jays being one of them. All I have to say is WTF!? IMO this goes against everything they've been doing.

eh its a cheap bat, low risk high reward, seems like the type of moves we have been making the last few years

LuckyLuke2
02-03-2012, 09:01 PM
I'd be alright with it. He likes Farrell a lot so I don't see him doing anything horrible. Would help out the offense in a off-season where there was little to no change.

nstojic
02-03-2012, 09:10 PM
Mission: Host a reunion of the mighty Indians teams of the mid-late 90's

Omar Vizquel... check
Manny Ramirez... check
Albert Belle.... pending
Travis Fryman....pending

jaysnraptors44
02-03-2012, 09:18 PM
I think this would be a good buy low gamble he'll have a similar role as Jime Thome did with the Twins

jaysnraptors44
02-03-2012, 09:22 PM
except with a lot less at bats

JermanJaysFan
02-03-2012, 10:08 PM
I'd like him on a minor league deal. However, I think the only way he could make the big league club is if he hits well enough (or Lind/EE hit poorly enough) for him to earn a more-or-less fulltime DH role. There isn't really room on the bench for a guy who is strictly a bat. But, yeah, I'd give him a shot. I wouldn't be surprised if by the time his suspension is up, the prospect of Manny playing 80-100 games at DH with EE and Lind moving into a time-share at 1B looks pretty good.

PJ Awesome
02-03-2012, 10:12 PM
As I said in the off-seasn thread, I'd rather have him here than in Baltimore. Though he's almost 40 and I personally hate him as a human being. I dunno, I wouldn't love this move. If it happens, he better not be asking for too much

mad_mooney
02-03-2012, 10:17 PM
I'd much rather see Johnny Damon get the contract over Ramirez.

JermanJaysFan
02-03-2012, 10:30 PM
I'd much rather see Johnny Damon get the contract over Ramirez.
Manny: <1MM
Damon: ~3MM

masTOR_shake1
02-03-2012, 10:38 PM
a nice, inexpensive boost 50 games into the season. i'd be all over it. he beasted it l.a.

dtmagnet
02-03-2012, 10:44 PM
I'd take him, he could be a useful DH if he can still swing it.

Nica
02-03-2012, 10:56 PM
Juice or no juice both Manny and Barry Bonds have amazing hand eye
Co-ordination. He is a big powerful hitter and I would be absolutely pumped to have him step as a pinch hitter with a game on the line.
Enigmatic, aging, troubled and potentially still a game changer. He would be a cheap thrill for all the Jays fans who weren't thrilled by the off-season.

scottythegreat1
02-04-2012, 01:00 AM
A useful bat, but we have a set roster.

Manny is done....he retired because of his juice addiction....you juice once...maybe...twice, forget it. Youre a cheater Manny, I wouldnt want a cheater on my team.

Hatch
02-04-2012, 01:11 AM
Juice or no juice both Manny and Barry Bonds have amazing hand eye
Co-ordination. He is a big powerful hitter and I would be absolutely pumped to have him step as a pinch hitter with a game on the line.
Enigmatic, aging, troubled and potentially still a game changer. He would be a cheap thrill for all the Jays fans who weren't thrilled by the off-season.

The big question is if the number of games he can change would outweigh the other garbage he brings to the rest of the team........

2009mvp
02-04-2012, 01:55 AM
Yes please. Why? Because why ****ing not. He's Manny.

Jays Claw
02-04-2012, 02:22 AM
I honestly wouldn't care if we sign him or not. All I hope is that he doesn't attract any outside media attention when/if he arrives.

WhatSayYou
02-04-2012, 06:21 AM
I'd be down, it'll only be a one year deal, should be quite cheap too so if we need to cut ties it won't be much of a loss. Its not like he'd be blocking anyone at DH, and who knows, maybe he can still swing it.

As for being a distraction, I doubt AA woulda offered a contract without talking to Farrell first who knows him pretty well. THat being said, as another poster mentioned this is probably just an agent taking advantage of the Jays and leaking their name, I don't really see it happening.

mtf
02-04-2012, 09:11 AM
a nice, inexpensive boost 50 games into the season. i'd be all over it. he beasted it l.a.

If I am remembering correctly, I'm pretty sure he is due to serve a 100 game suspension as a repeat offender should he find a team willing to sign him, not just 50.


Manny: <1MM
Damon: ~3MM

In baseball terms, the money you're talking about is pennies. When Darren Oliver is being paid $4.5M as not even a set-up man in the bullpen, $3M for Johnny Damn is insignificant.

At a certain point (at the very least), I would like the guys who look at the player and not the accounting to take over. You'd think at the level of $1-3M, at least the better player would be the one taken.

Footlong
02-04-2012, 09:59 AM
Awful idea....just awful.

If the Jays are close by the end of the 50 games and in need of offence, they'd be better off trading some of the pitching depth for a younger hitter who isn't coming back from an absence of nearly 2 years.

If they're not close, they'd be better off using 1B/DH to get some of their younger up-and-comers some AB's.

Ramirez would be a waste of a roster spot.

Yes. Would rather Rogers forget Manny, and instead allocated their money towards a much more valuable impact player to take at bats away from developing youngsters for scarce roster spots...such as they did with the prized signing of Omar Vizquel :D.

Seven Rhymes
02-04-2012, 10:39 AM
The concept of Ramirez in a Jays uniform doesn't follow the AA model and I doubt there's any validity to it. As people have mentioned, probably just the agent or a writer trying to create something.

With most of the Jays' nucleus in place, AA has made some sensible veteran signings. Olders guys with a track record of winning who have "been there, done that", who can help mentor the talented youngsters, be coaches in the clubhouse and still play a role.

Ramirez doesn't fit that mould and would be a distraction at some point. His bat, while perhaps still useful as a DH or pinch hitter, wouldn't add any more wins to the grand total. There's much more risk that reward.

The Jays need to see to what EE can do with the bat over a full season when he doesn't have to worry about the glove in order to make a long term decision on him. Ramirez would take away some of his at bats.

Halladay
02-04-2012, 10:44 AM
I can't see why anyone would be against it. What exactly do we have to lose? is he taking AB's away from anyone? He'd probably platoon with Lind at DH which would be fine with me.

JMac4PM
02-04-2012, 10:54 AM
If there wasnt room for Napoli last season then there shouldnt be room for Manny this season IMO.

koreancabbage
02-04-2012, 10:54 AM
he's taking away at bats from Encarnarcion. who blossomed has year as a DH-er

North Yorker
02-04-2012, 11:45 AM
he's taking away at bats from Encarnarcion. who blossomed has year as a DH-er

With the amount of tough lefties in our division and league (CC, Lester, Price, Wilson, etc) I think he would only really take AB's away from Lind, or whoeever is struggling more.

mtf
02-04-2012, 12:01 PM
The Jays need to see to what EE can do with the bat over a full season when he doesn't have to worry about the glove in order to make a long term decision on him. Ramirez would take away some of his at bats.

I don't know if I buy the whole burden-of-the-glove argument with Encarnacion. I think it's one of the rationalizations Jays fans make up to excuse the realities they're left (like with the departure of Zach Stewart or Nestor Molina we heard that they aren't top prospects anymore, they simply project to be back of the rotation starters at best). I think Encarnacion is what he is, a wildly inconsistent hitter who has periods of brilliance with the bat after struggling for several months before and/or after it.

That being said, Manny Ramirez doesn't offer much at 39 and with an impending 100 game suspension to start off his tenure with the Blue Jays, should they decide to offer him a deal. Johnny Damon would be a much better candidate if the Jays feel they need another bat for the short-term and aren't comfortable with giving Encarnacion the job.

Halladay
02-04-2012, 12:12 PM
I don't know if I buy the whole burden-of-the-glove argument with Encarnacion. I think it's one of the rationalizations Jays fans make up to excuse the realities they're left (like with the departure of Zach Stewart or Nestor Molina we heard that they aren't top prospects anymore, they simply project to be back of the rotation starters at best). I think Encarnacion is what he is, a wildly inconsistent hitter who has periods of brilliance with the bat after struggling for several months before and/or after it.

That being said, Manny Ramirez doesn't offer much at 39 and with an impending 100 game suspension to start off his tenure with the Blue Jays, should they decide to offer him a deal. Johnny Damon would be a much better candidate if the Jays feel they need another bat for the short-term and aren't comfortable with giving Encarnacion the job.

Okay ummm go look at the numbers. Compare EE's numbers when he's in the field vs when he's the DH.

mtf
02-04-2012, 12:21 PM
Okay ummm go look at the numbers. Compare EE's numbers when he's in the field vs when he's the DH.

If you want to disprove me, you should do so by presenting me with the facts rather than telling me to go find the facts to prove myself wrong. :)

You may be right though, I'm just saying it seems very much like a weak rationalization or coincidence. I don't think his struggles with the glove wear on his mind so badly that he forgets how to hit.

jaysfan4ever
02-04-2012, 12:26 PM
Yes please. Why? Because why ****ing not. He's Manny.

Not much more to say lol.

It seems like another rumor though as there have been no details. If it's true, you gotta think that Manny chooses the Jays in a heartbeat.

Halladay
02-04-2012, 12:37 PM
If you want to disprove me, you should do so by presenting me with the facts rather than telling me to go find the facts to prove myself wrong. :)

You may be right though, I'm just saying it seems very much like a weak rationalization or coincidence. I don't think his struggles with the glove wear on his mind so badly that he forgets how to hit.

Usually when you make a claim, as you did, you provide some evidence. I already knew what I was talking about, you didn't.

mtf
02-04-2012, 12:50 PM
Usually when you make a claim, as you did, you provide some evidence. I already knew what I was talking about, you didn't.

I expressed an opinion, I didn't state a fact. I simply said that I think Blue Jay fans try to make rationalizations based on the realities they're left with, using the one previously presented by the person I was responding to who said it is his opinion that Edwin Encarnacion will be better when he doesn't have the weight of the glove wearing on his mental state.

I'm not sure why my opinion is making you react like this is a feud, especially since I wasn't responding to you when I expressed it. :cool:

sheps88
02-04-2012, 12:52 PM
What's Charles Nagy doing nowadays maybe he is our 4-5 guy lol

mtf
02-04-2012, 12:55 PM
What's Charles Nagy doing nowadays maybe he is our 4-5 guy lol

I dunno man, he may be asking for $750K. I think we could get a guy for $740K who'd be almost as good!

Seven Rhymes
02-04-2012, 01:19 PM
I don't know if I buy the whole burden-of-the-glove argument with Encarnacion. I think it's one of the rationalizations Jays fans make up to excuse the realities they're left (like with the departure of Zach Stewart or Nestor Molina we heard that they aren't top prospects anymore, they simply project to be back of the rotation starters at best). I think Encarnacion is what he is, a wildly inconsistent hitter who has periods of brilliance with the bat after struggling for several months before and/or after it.

That being said, Manny Ramirez doesn't offer much at 39 and with an impending 100 game suspension to start off his tenure with the Blue Jays, should they decide to offer him a deal. Johnny Damon would be a much better candidate if the Jays feel they need another bat for the short-term and aren't comfortable with giving Encarnacion the job.

You don't believe that if a fielder makes an error or fails to get to a ball he should have had, that it doesn't affect him mentally and it doesn't carry over to the plate?

You can see the visible frustration in EE's body language when he makes a mistake. Some athletes can quickly put it behind them. Others, like most people, it tends to linger and affect performance.

What often seperates those who succeed and those who don't is confidence. Reduce the number of variables that bring down a person's confidence, the more likely they are to succeed.

Pfeifer
02-04-2012, 01:20 PM
Didn't his suspension get cut to 50 games?

nithanyo
02-04-2012, 01:51 PM
I don't understand what the "risk" people speake of. It's Manny fuquin Ramirez. He may get attention from media that only means recognition for the blue jays. If he makes $1 million its nothing in the baseball world. He struggles we cut him . Simple As that. 50 gAmes we would have an ideA as to how good lind and EE will do. Low risk high reward

Nica
02-04-2012, 02:03 PM
Setting the Scene:

Its the bottom of the ninth and its a two out one run game against the most unholiest of Satan's offspring, the New York Yankees. Its late September and the Yanks skipper immediately signals for his HOF reliever Rivera to close the door on the Jays. Brett Lawrie has managed to reach 2nd via the 5th walk given up by Burnett in a "crafty" 12 hitter. Lawrie hustled on down to 2nd on a wild pitch and has been stranded there on a weak fly ball to shallow left by EE and a 4 pitch strike out by Thames.
Nic contemplates the situation, takes a sip of his warm $ 12 draft and turns to
MTF, Wamco and Sanyo and says " I wonder if Farrell will pinch hit for JPA since he is still hitting barely above the Mendoza line ?"
MTF in his typical analytical way, is busy on his Blackberry trying to access Fangraphs while simultaneously trying to stuff as many nachos as humanly possible into his mouth. He grunts and spills glowing non-dairy cheese product all over Wamco's program. Wamco, ever the realistic pragmatist, throws down his soiled program and balefully glares at the Jays bench ready to go into a tirade directed at whomever the Jays send out to hit. Sanyo, all sunshine and smiles declares in his very best 5 beer 2 hot dogs voice that he believes in Farrel and that the whole past year is boiling down to this moment.
The four cheese stained fans lean forward with wild anticipation as the Jays make their final claim for the 2012 post -season with their clutch pinch hitter
Mike Mccoy ( or insert Omar or Mathis or Jaybird). Slow mo to game ending soft grounder to Cano.
The four disappointed fans drop their programs and join the other 26
thousand disgruntled Jays and shuffled out of the Rogers Centre over to the Brass Rail to discuss the next frustrating off season....

Still think Manny is a bad idea ?:D

es0terik
02-04-2012, 02:09 PM
I don't understand what the "risk" people speake of. It's Manny fuquin Ramirez. He may get attention from media that only means recognition for the blue jays. If he makes $1 million its nothing in the baseball world. He struggles we cut him . Simple As that. 50 gAmes we would have an ideA as to how good lind and EE will do. Low risk high reward

Don't even think it would take 1M, I'm pretty sure he stated that he's fine with a league minimum salary. It makes sense given that he'll sit out the first 50 games.

Seven Rhymes
02-04-2012, 03:04 PM
Since we're setting the scene. :)

Inserted into the line up for game one of an important mid August clash with the Red Sox, Manny Ramirez, hitting .192 has an O fer as the Jays fall 3 games back of Boston for the final wild card spot.

A frustrated Ramirez throws a tirade in the clubhouse, setting a fine example for the Blue Jays' youngsters and in the process uses Brett Lawrie's lucky bat to destroy Brett Cecil's innocent juicing blender.

Confronted by members of the Boston media about his "Adam Dunn like" numbers, Ramirez blames John Farrell and stating that if he played more, his numbers and the Jays record would be better, after all he's had a Hall of Fame worthy career.

When asked about the comments, Farrell rolls his eyes and says "that's Manny being Manny"

Prior to game two of the series and after seeing he is not starting, Manny draws attention to himself as he takes the field for warmup wearing a T-shirt that reads "Play Me".

A cameraman catches AA muttering to Tony LaCava "I'd rather have Alex Rios".

wamco
02-04-2012, 03:11 PM
scouts thought manny couldnt catch up with fastballs 2 years ago.

WhatSayYou
02-04-2012, 04:03 PM
Didn't his suspension get cut to 50 games?

yep (not sure why though haha)

dtmagnet
02-04-2012, 04:21 PM
Given that he likes Farrell and must obviously love hitting in this park, I'd say he'll pick us out of the 3 teams.

lmallia
02-04-2012, 05:13 PM
Given that he likes Farrell and must obviously love hitting in this park, I'd say he'll pick us out of the 3 teams.

I actually think either he loves the city or has ties here, because I've seen him twice in the last 2 years.. Once at a movie theater in Mississauga with a girl and child (his?) and once downtown..

nithanyo
02-04-2012, 05:27 PM
^^ my boss told me he saw him at yorkdale

DeRozan10
02-04-2012, 05:30 PM
Since we're setting the scene. :)

Inserted into the line up for game one of an important mid August clash with the Red Sox, Manny Ramirez, hitting .192 has an O fer as the Jays fall 3 games back of Boston for the final wild card spot.

A frustrated Ramirez throws a tirade in the clubhouse, setting a fine example for the Blue Jays' youngsters and in the process uses Brett Lawrie's lucky bat to destroy Brett Cecil's innocent juicing blender.

Confronted by members of the Boston media about his "Adam Dunn like" numbers, Ramirez blames John Farrell and stating that if he played more, his numbers and the Jays record would be better, after all he's had a Hall of Fame worthy career.

When asked about the comments, Farrell rolls his eyes and says "that's Manny being Manny"

Prior to game two of the series and after seeing he is not starting, Manny draws attention to himself as he takes the field for warmup wearing a T-shirt that reads "Play Me".

A cameraman catches AA muttering to Tony LaCava "I'd rather have Alex Rios".



Okay ... Here's the thing guys. And let's really think about this.

If AA, Beeston, or Farrell even think for a second Manny will become a distraction or will be bad in the locker room, then they won't touch him.

The proof is in the pudding. Look at the guys we signed this year. Omar Visquel (45), Darren Oliver (41), Francisco Cordero (37).

3 very well respected veterans who are going to be fantastic to have in the locker room.

If Manny can come in here and accept a lesser roll, and be a leader and have a veteran presence in the locker room, then we could see him here.

But if the Jays organization thinks that even for a second he will become a headache, then I highly highly doubt we will see him donning a Jays jersey in 2012.

LechWalesa
02-04-2012, 05:36 PM
This happens every time Manny becomes a free agent and the same stuff is always said about him loving the 90s Jays and what not... then he doesn't sign.

I doubt we get him.

Beebs1979
02-04-2012, 09:43 PM
Manny would be an awesome signing!

He'd have a HUGE impact on ticket sales by " just being Manny."

DH and off the bench if he still has it, not a horrible idea.....

2009mvp
02-04-2012, 09:54 PM
Still not seeing the big risk here. The appeal is that Manny has virtually no leverage. Doesn't matter where he signs, if he doesn't hit or he doesn't keep the off-field stuff in check he'll be out on his *** in no time. That's the beauty of the <1M deal he's bound to sign, the team is in complete control at this point.

BlueJayFanDan
02-04-2012, 11:00 PM
This happens every time Manny becomes a free agent and the same stuff is always said about him loving the 90s Jays and what not... then he doesn't sign.

I doubt we get him.

Basically, this.

JermanJaysFan
02-05-2012, 12:26 AM
Okay ummm go look at the numbers. Compare EE's numbers when he's in the field vs when he's the DH.

While I'd like to agree with you, using his 1B/3B numbers vs. his DH numbers is hard to count as proof here, considering he has a grand total of 271 career ABs at DH. That isn't really enough ABs to draw a conclusion, statistically speaking.

Raps08-09 Champ
02-05-2012, 01:31 AM
Probably won't cost a lot. So I wouldn't mind.

damadmonk
02-05-2012, 02:34 AM
I can't see why anyone would be against it. What exactly do we have to lose? is he taking AB's away from anyone? He'd probably platoon with Lind at DH which would be fine with me.

This is exactly what I would do.

If we are 50 games in, and Lind/EE aren't enough. We would have another 50 or so games to see if Manny is enough. And if they aren't enough, we have the farm to trade for a hitter. They are always available for cheap during the trade deadline.


How does his roster spot work? Is he off the 25/40 man roster til he's done?

damadmonk
02-05-2012, 02:40 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5727014
ORLANDO, Fla. -- With Red Sox pitching coach John Farrell about to take over as manager of the Blue Jays, soon-to-be free agent Manny Ramirez praised the hiring and listed Toronto as a possible landing spot.

"John has tremendous knowledge of the game, a very pleasant man and he trains ballplayers," Ramirez said in a telephone interview with ESPNdeportes.com from his Miami home.


Ramirez
"Toronto has made a great acquisition. Farrell is a manager for whom I would like to play, and Toronto is a team I've liked since they had all those Dominican players in the '80s," Ramirez continued.:clap:

Bombtista
02-05-2012, 03:04 AM
After thinking about it I realize why not go for it. It would only be money which we should have and thats really only with incentives.

If he can keep up im sure he would put out a few dingers at Fenway in our favour which should be cool!

Its a good thing to bring more potential going into next season

masTOR_shake1
02-05-2012, 03:51 AM
[QUOTE=mtf;20836457]If I am remembering correctly, I'm pretty sure he is due to serve a 100 game suspension as a repeat offender should he find a team willing to sign him, not just 50.[QUOTE]

nahh braah,,,because he "retired" , the sentence reduces to 50 games for some reason.

Billyen
02-05-2012, 06:49 AM
^^ my boss told me he saw him at yorkdale

I used work at Yorkdale...everyone looks like Ramirez...if you know what I mean.

wamco
02-05-2012, 09:26 AM
so shouldn't every player "retire" when they get the 100 g sentence?

'94 Expos
02-05-2012, 10:52 AM
Ramirez is a selfish, egotisitical, cheating *** who is everything I teach my kids not to be. I suppose some find his antics entertaining (much the same way morons actually care what Justin Bieber and Paris Hilton do) but I can't stand him. Why would the Jays invest a roster spot on someone with so much baggage? I acknowledge that ManRam was a great hitter but the list of potential negatives makes taking a reach with ManRam a bad idea:

Manny
- has not played for some time
- couldn't catch a cold in a daycare
- might beat David Ortiz in the 100m dash (better make that 10m)
- has been juicing for much of his career (hey no pro sports team is going to have a full roster of 'great guys' but Ramirez is one of the biggest ********* to ever play the game)
- has repeatedly demonstrated a selfish attitude
- has to serve a 50 game suspension before he takes a swing (what if our team is in the race and we are humming along fine with the current roster and now we have to add ManRam to the mix?)
- is old, we already added several quality veterans


Just sayin

wamco
02-05-2012, 02:25 PM
he's actually young compared to the rest of the FA signings. He is definitly a cheat and a phony though and a stupid one at that to keep cheating with the testing in place. Guy could have stopped a few years ago and been remembered like Frank Thomas, instead he'll be remembered with Sosa, McGwire and Palmeiro.

FlakeyFool
02-05-2012, 03:17 PM
Frank Thomas cheated?

WhatSayYou
02-05-2012, 03:58 PM
Frank Thomas cheated?

No, thats the point, if he'd had stopped earlier he probably never would have been exposed and thus seen on in a more positive light like Thomas.

wamco
02-05-2012, 04:59 PM
i expect a cowherd fan to be able to comprehend better! Go colin!, rumor has him with beadle on the sizzide.

FlakeyFool
02-05-2012, 05:18 PM
apologies I did read that wrong.

wamco
02-05-2012, 05:34 PM
what a dumpsterfire!

Billyen
02-05-2012, 06:37 PM
Ummm...I think I now need a Wamco translator...beadle on the sizzide?

BTW...Thomas was a tank (sorry...couldn't help myself there.) All he had to do was tap the ball and in was gone. The great thing about him was hit hit for avg. too and could talk a walk. I doubt he was juiced. He was massive since day 1.

wamco
02-06-2012, 07:40 AM
noone is saying thomas was on the juice, in fact, extra testosterone was probably taken from his legs to help others juice. michele beadle is colin's co-anchor on their espn show, sportsnation. sizzide would be side. what does "tap the ball and in was gone" mean?

masTOR_shake1
02-06-2012, 08:39 AM
i rock the party that rocks the body, you rock the body that rocks the party. :rock:

wamco
02-06-2012, 08:52 AM
if you got real hair and real fingernails, make some noise in this place......

Krylian
02-06-2012, 11:33 AM
i rock the party that rocks the body, you rock the body that rocks the party. :rock:

Sorry for Party Rocking????:confused:

Ace Drivers
02-06-2012, 12:22 PM
For less than 1 million its a no brainer...fills a major hole at DH...

We could get rid of EE...thank goodness if we did, cuz I can't even watch when he's on the field...or Mike McCoy...or Luis perez...

Omar makes Mike expendable, and oliver makes Perez expendable...Snider could go as well

Point being lots of options to fit him in. If he finds his stroke, it could be the big bat people on this forum so desperately want, without giving up anything really...

Given this team belongs to Bautista, JP, Ricky etc. I doubt he will be able to create many problems in the locker room...Farrell obviously knows him well, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Jays tested him once a week themselves...

Certainly don't like the cheater aspect of it all, but I for one would be willing to give him a 2nd...er 5th chance? With very low risk...he's a distraction, cut him...he doesn't perform, cut him...don't forget even if we sign for a mil, we only pay him 2/3rds of that because of the suspension...

I agree he clearly is not a smart man, given just after serving a 50 gamer, he signs with a club willing to take a chance and then you get nailed again?! Did you not think you would be tested...and tested a lot!

Anyway, if Farrell can reel him in and he accepts his DH role and actually be a positive contributor in the clubhouse...no reason not to sign him. In fact, the clubhouse is the worst of my concerns...most say he's actually a really fun/nice guy, just not so SMRT

2009mvp
02-06-2012, 01:07 PM
It's weird to me that people skewer the guy for cheating but not for slapping his wife around.

JermanJaysFan
02-06-2012, 01:12 PM
It's weird to me that people skewer the guy for cheating but not for slapping his wife around.
Cheating has more baseball relevance? :shrug:

Ace Drivers
02-06-2012, 01:19 PM
Did I mention he's not smart

3mikee_
02-06-2012, 01:22 PM
I don't see how this would help our team.. more of a distraction than anything else.

Sanyo
02-06-2012, 01:37 PM
Pros: Could come cheap.
Has the ability to get on base.

Cons:
Bad teammate --Jays have a young core who could be influenced by "Manny being Manny"
Can't do anything but be a pinch hitter

So the question remains -- can he still swing? This is what it all boils down to-- nobody here has that answer except for the peeps who are watching his workouts. If his bat speed is still very good, try to sign him cheap -- if it isn't, he has absolutely no use and move him along -- but until then the debates mean nothing cause you need to see what his conditioning is right now...

In the end its just a matter of what weighs more? If he is truly off the enhancement drugs, at age 40 he is very likely to be ineffective -- his swing speed probably has come down and pitchers are more likely to challenge him now instead of pitching around him, which could affect his obp -- but again nobody here knows so really doesn't matter what any one of us thinks, its a matter of what the Jays see in him and if he can still be effective...

pebloemer
02-06-2012, 01:41 PM
The risk is definitely very low, given what his contract would likely be. Jays need to evaluate the potential reward. Can he still hit? If he can still hit, there is no reason not to give it a try IMO. It's not like the Jays would be investing a lot in a player with character issues. A small investment can be released if there is a problem.

wamco
02-06-2012, 02:20 PM
would have much preferred quentin to manny

'94 Expos
02-06-2012, 02:49 PM
It's weird to me that people skewer the guy for cheating but not for slapping his wife around.

I didn't know that---I take it that's documented? I learn something every day

One more reason not have this buffoon on our team.

It's one thing to have a jerk come up through the team's system but it's another when you go out and purposefully acquire one.

wamco
02-06-2012, 08:19 PM
puckett choked his wife out with a phone cord and everyone loved him

2009mvp
02-06-2012, 08:44 PM
^^Yup, like I said it's just weird to me. I mean I kinda understand why, I just can't grasp the part where he's a horrible teammate and a terrible dude for taking some pills and not taking the game as life and death serious all the time (what a monster!), but the far more serious battery charge gets brushed under the rug. I'm not even necessarily judging the guy, it's just strange to me.

BJBirdy
02-06-2012, 08:49 PM
I don't see how this would help our team.. more of a distraction than anything else.

I feel the same way to be perfectly honest. At this stage of his career, I'm not a fan of picking up Manny Ramirez.

'94 Expos
02-06-2012, 09:22 PM
^^Yup, like I said it's just weird to me. I mean I kinda understand why, I just can't grasp the part where he's a horrible teammate and a terrible dude for taking some pills and not taking the game as life and death serious all the time (what a monster!), but the far more serious battery charge gets brushed under the rug. I'm not even necessarily judging the guy, it's just strange to me.


I'll judge him. He is an A*&%@## in the first degree! Many people write off character issues but it bugs the hell out of me when you find out your guy is a jerk. I think the cheating gets more pub because it relates directly to baseball. Not that that makes it right.

The Jays have been a classy organization. There have been 'characters' in the past (Jorge Bell, Dave Stieb etc) but this guy would take the cake.

I may be in the minority but I'll take a good guy (this is in the abstract, I realize it is tough to prove) over a talented guy every time. That being said I like it when the two are combined!

Pfeifer
02-06-2012, 09:44 PM
Roger Clemens was an ***, cheated while he was here, but I would do it again in a heartbeat.

AA09-?
02-07-2012, 09:59 AM
Roger Clemens was an ***, cheated while he was here, but I would do it again in a heartbeat.

Clemens was also in the prime of his career, Manny is so far from the prime it's not funny.

StayOnBoard
02-07-2012, 10:37 AM
I'll be honest, I really think Manny is done. That said, what will this REALLY cost, a roster spot? You wouldn't pay $750k on the off-chance he still has it in the tank and has something to prove? The guy was one of the better hitters of our generation, I would absolutely take a shot with his potential to flat out rake at Rogers center.

It's a no-risk situation. If he turns into a problem he's cut with almost nothing lost.

town123
02-07-2012, 11:04 AM
It's weird to me that people skewer the guy for cheating but not for slapping his wife around.

Folks in the D regarding Miggy:

Stopped by the cops when openly drinking a 26lbr of Tequila - cops got nuthin' better to do?

For slapping his wife around, again - well the bish be lyin' that's all.

AA09-?
02-07-2012, 11:09 AM
I'll be honest, I really think Manny is done. That said, what will this REALLY cost, a roster spot? You wouldn't pay $750k on the off-chance he still has it in the tank and has something to prove? The guy was one of the better hitters of our generation, I would absolutely take a shot with his potential to flat out rake at Rogers center.

It's a no-risk situation. If he turns into a problem he's cut with almost nothing lost.

The last thing I'd want is Manny being Manny and the young players we have adopting his attitude.

mkcavy
02-07-2012, 12:05 PM
I can only see 2 reasons to sign Manny:

1) AA believes the team is primed for a wildcard run and feel he is a considerable upgrade versus EE at DH.

2) AA believes he can get considerable value from trading EE or Lind (and move EE to first) and just needs a cheap stop gap at DH.

Otherwise, why the hell would you sign him?

miller74
02-07-2012, 12:19 PM
Mission: Host a reunion of the mighty Indians teams of the mid-late 90's

Omar Vizquel... check
Manny Ramirez... check
Albert Belle.... pending
Travis Fryman....pending


He can't make it hes following his girlfriend via GSP tracker

miller74
02-07-2012, 12:19 PM
Mission: Host a reunion of the mighty Indians teams of the mid-late 90's

Omar Vizquel... check
Manny Ramirez... check
Albert Belle.... pending
Travis Fryman....pending

Could def use Charles Nagy in the rotation

BJBirdy
02-07-2012, 04:28 PM
The last thing I'd want is Manny being Manny and the young players we have adopting his attitude.

That's the main reason why I don't want the Jays to sign Manny.

nithanyo
02-08-2012, 03:18 AM
The last thing I'd want is Manny being Manny and the young players we have adopting his attitude.

Ya, cus these are grown *** men and they will be influenced by everyone they see right?

For **** sakes people need to find a new excuse. These guys defied odds to make it to the majors. They won't be that easily influenced.

AA09-?
02-09-2012, 10:19 AM
Ya, cus these are grown *** men and they will be influenced by everyone they see right?

For **** sakes people need to find a new excuse. These guys defied odds to make it to the majors. They won't be that easily influenced.



I don't need to find an excuse at all, it's a fact. Most people, in general, are followers.

Billyen
02-09-2012, 11:04 AM
I don't need to find an excuse at all, it's a fact. Most people, in general, are followers.

I think you are right.

:p

GrumpyOldMan
02-10-2012, 10:57 AM
My season tickets are down the right field line. If we get Manny I have a shot at a souvenir every time he is late on a fastball (which with his diminished batspeed should be often). For that reason only I wouldn't mind having him.
As far as benefits for the team are concerned, I don't see him as a difference maker. His bat is slow, his feet are slow and he will have to serve a suspension. In my opinion he isn't good enough to make the team.

nithanyo
02-10-2012, 12:41 PM
I'll judge him. He is an A*&%@## in the first degree! Many people write off character issues but it bugs the hell out of me when you find out your guy is a jerk. I think the cheating gets more pub because it relates directly to baseball. Not that that makes it right.

The Jays have been a classy organization. There have been 'characters' in the past (Jorge Bell, Dave Stieb etc) but this guy would take the cake.

I may be in the minority but I'll take a good guy (this is in the abstract, I realize it is tough to prove) over a talented guy every time. That being said I like it when the two are combined!

right cus character wins u championships:eyebrow:

jon32
02-10-2012, 01:10 PM
I may be in the minority but I'll take a good guy (this is in the abstract, I realize it is tough to prove) over a talented guy every time. That being said I like it when the two are combined!


Ever hear the song " nice guys finish last " by green day ? its mostly true.

wamco
02-10-2012, 04:28 PM
i think you are right.

:p

x2

jj_afroman
02-11-2012, 05:00 PM
My season tickets are down the right field line. If we get Manny I have a shot at a souvenir every time he is late on a fastball (which with his diminished batspeed should be often). For that reason only I wouldn't mind having him.
As far as benefits for the team are concerned, I don't see him as a difference maker. His bat is slow, his feet are slow and he will have to serve a suspension. In my opinion he isn't good enough to make the team.

Please give me even the smallest scrap of evidence supporting this claim...
His carreer OPS is .996 and was one of the top 5 hitters of the last decade ffs you have no idea what you're talking about

jj_afroman
02-11-2012, 05:03 PM
#73 Hitter all-time and you say his bat is slow...get a grip dude...

JaysFan87
02-11-2012, 05:05 PM
#73 Hitter all-time and you say his bat is slow...get a grip dude...

age has something to do with it

jj_afroman
02-11-2012, 05:18 PM
The last thing I'd want is Manny being Manny and the young players we have adopting his attitude.

I hate to break it to you but if Brett Lawrie wasn't white he'd be looked at with the same "Manny being Manny" paradigm...

Manny being Manny translated into lamence terms is as follows: unbridled charisma...

There's nothing wrong with the way Manny plays the game...he dosen't gloat...he dosen't whine, he dosen't pout...he plays and has fun while doing it.

If you want to persecute him because he has a latino accent be my guest but please realize that Lawrie is pretty much a carbon copy of Manny in respects to his eccentric and overall goofy nature

jj_afroman
02-11-2012, 05:29 PM
For less than 1 million its a no brainer...fills a major hole at DH...
We could get rid of EE...thank goodness if we did, cuz I can't even watch when he's on the field...or Mike McCoy...or Luis perez...

Omar makes Mike expendable, and oliver makes Perez expendable...Snider could go as well

Point being lots of options to fit him in. If he finds his stroke, it could be the big bat people on this forum so desperately want, without giving up anything really...

Given this team belongs to Bautista, JP, Ricky etc. I doubt he will be able to create many problems in the locker room...Farrell obviously knows him well, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Jays tested him once a week themselves...

Certainly don't like the cheater aspect of it all, but I for one would be willing to give him a 2nd...er 5th chance? With very low risk...he's a distraction, cut him...he doesn't perform, cut him...don't forget even if we sign for a mil, we only pay him 2/3rds of that because of the suspension...

I agree he clearly is not a smart man, given just after serving a 50 gamer, he signs with a club willing to take a chance and then you get nailed again?! Did you not think you would be tested...and tested a lot!

Anyway, if Farrell can reel him in and he accepts his DH role and actually be a positive contributor in the clubhouse...no reason not to sign him. In fact, the clubhouse is the worst of my concerns...most say he's actually a really fun/nice guy, just not so SMRT

Good post, couldn't agree more with most of it but i beleive intelligence and integrity are completely seperate entities...

Baseball (in general) isn't the best evaluator of intelligence...not to mention you've (presumably) never held a conversation with him in your life...

'94 Expos
02-11-2012, 07:46 PM
Ramirez is a douchebag

Lawrie hasn't been caught cheating

Lawire hasn't been caught slapping his wife around

No need to play the race card

nstojic
02-11-2012, 07:52 PM
age has something to do with it

what a coincidence...

cue the article (article) (halfway down the page)

nithanyo
02-12-2012, 12:18 AM
[/B]

As far as your Lawrie comparison, Manny never brought the same type of intensity to his teams at any point in his career that Brett brought to the Jays in his brief 50 games last year. Not the same type of player at all. Oh, and Brett can actually play defense.

Manny brought his team 2 championships. Intensity is nice n all but it doesn't win u championships. Almost as comical as the other poster saying that he would rather have a good character than a talented player.

Why are people so quick to dismiss a player after a handful of games in Chicago and Tampa? Its such a low risk signing its almost a no brainer.

Boston vilified Manny to kick him out of town. If you think about it he isn't a bad teamate. Sure he whoop his wife and sure he used steroids but cmon its not like he is a bad baseball player. Its a business. He deserves a shot and why not catch lightning in a bottle by signing him. For god sakes we let Mark Teahen walk away with 3 million. ITs not gonna take more than a million for manny

jon32
02-12-2012, 01:13 AM
Manny brought his team 2 championships. Intensity is nice n all but it doesn't win u championships. Almost as comical as the other poster saying that he would rather have a good character than a talented player.

Why are people so quick to dismiss a player after a handful of games in Chicago and Tampa? Its such a low risk signing its almost a no brainer.Boston vilified Manny to kick him out of town. If you think about it he isn't a bad teamate. Sure he whoop his wife and sure he used steroids but cmon its not like he is a bad baseball player. Its a business. He deserves a shot and why not catch lightning in a bottle by signing him. For god sakes we let Mark Teahen walk away with 3 million. ITs not gonna take more than a million for manny

Id love to sign him also, but i think only because of who he is. If its such a no brainer then I would assume some teams other than ones like baltimore and oakland would be all over this. The Yankees Im sure would already have him signed, but i think they know the facts. The guy clearly isnt the player he used to be and he would easily be our worst defensive player and he would be pretty damn near the bottom in hitting also.

He use to be great, not so anymore.

riderfan60
02-12-2012, 11:33 PM
Manny brought his team 2 championships. Intensity is nice n all but it doesn't win u championships. Almost as comical as the other poster saying that he would rather have a good character than a talented player. I would rather have a talented, character player. Unless your team is so clearly superior talent-wise, character and chemistry do factor in team success, Thought you might already know that.

Why are people so quick to dismiss a player after a handful of games in Chicago and Tampa? Its such a low risk signing its almost a no brainer.

Boston vilified Manny to kick him out of town. If you think about it he isn't a bad teamate. Sure he whoop his wife and sure he used steroids but cmon its not like he is a bad baseball player. Its a business. He deserves a shot and why not catch lightning in a bottle by signing him. For god sakes we let Mark Teahen walk away with 3 million. ITs not gonna take more than a million for manny

It is pretty much like he's a bad ball player. He has no bat speed. He didn't have much when he was on PEDs, please explain how he will magically find the fountain of youth to regain it. That explanation will truly be comical.

nithanyo
02-13-2012, 10:08 AM
It is pretty much like he's a bad ball player. He has no bat speed. He didn't have much when he was on PEDs, please explain how he will magically find the fountain of youth to regain it. That explanation will truly be comical.

I'm sure Manny will workout for AA or any other GM before he signs. AA will see him and if his bat speed is as slow as you make it seem than there is no point in signing him.

You don't make up your mind without even giving him a chance. That's the kind of **** JP would have done. I'm sure AA will do his due dilligence and if Manny is worth the signing than AA will sign him.Even if he doesn't start I'm sure he has a better bat than fransisco, and McCoy.

AA09-?
02-13-2012, 10:45 AM
I hate to break it to you but if Brett Lawrie wasn't white he'd be looked at with the same "Manny being Manny" paradigm...

Manny being Manny translated into lamence terms is as follows: unbridled charisma...

There's nothing wrong with the way Manny plays the game...he dosen't gloat...he dosen't whine, he dosen't pout...he plays and has fun while doing it.

If you want to persecute him because he has a latino accent be my guest but please realize that Lawrie is pretty much a carbon copy of Manny in respects to his eccentric and overall goofy nature

And you're basing this off of seeing Brett Lawrie playing for a month and half? Give it sometime and we'll see what becomes of Brett. Oh and thanks for breaking it to me.:rolleyes:

AA09-?
02-13-2012, 10:48 AM
Manny brought his team 2 championships. Intensity is nice n all but it doesn't win u championships. Almost as comical as the other poster saying that he would rather have a good character than a talented player.

Why are people so quick to dismiss a player after a handful of games in Chicago and Tampa? Its such a low risk signing its almost a no brainer.

Boston vilified Manny to kick him out of town. If you think about it he isn't a bad teamate. Sure he whoop his wife and sure he used steroids but cmon its not like he is a bad baseball player. Its a business. He deserves a shot and why not catch lightning in a bottle by signing him. For god sakes we let Mark Teahen walk away with 3 million. ITs not gonna take more than a million for manny

You make it sound like he did it on his own. He may have played a big role on both championship teams, but by no means did he bring the city of Boston two titles.

AA09-?
02-13-2012, 10:50 AM
I'm sure Manny will workout for AA or any other GM before he signs. AA will see him and if his bat speed is as slow as you make it seem than there is no point in signing him.

You don't make up your mind without even giving him a chance. That's the kind of **** JP would have done. I'm sure AA will do his due dilligence and if Manny is worth the signing than AA will sign him.Even if he doesn't start I'm sure he has a better bat than fransisco, and McCoy.

What's your point? They play defense. Manny never did, well.

nstojic
02-13-2012, 12:10 PM
hopefully this can end the thread...


The Toronto Blue Jays showed interest at one point, but the talks failed to progress, sources said.

we're out, according to rosenthal...

link (link)

'94 Expos
02-13-2012, 01:48 PM
[/B]


Ever hear the song " nice guys finish last " by green day ? its mostly true.

I hear you. I am not living in a bubble! I realize talent rules the day. And there is no pro roster that doesn't have it's share of douchebags. But character does count in my world. The current Jays appear on the whole to be a decent bunch and have a high potential ceiling. I don't care for Ramirez and I think the Jays would be better served looking elsewhere if a veteran bat is needed (Damon, Guerrerro etc). I don't think now is the time to add that bat and I don't think Ramirez could 'bring it' anyways.

Being a father of some younger Jays fans I have tried to explain the realities of professional sports to my kids. That being said, if the home team goes out on a limb acquiring a guy with poor character I may well not come to any games.

I don't expect a bunch of young guys getting paid millions to play a game to be perfect. But I do have my limits and Ramirez crosses the line for me.

Krylian
02-13-2012, 03:12 PM
hopefully this can end the thread...



we're out, according to rosenthal...

link (link)

This pleases me.

craigerlee
02-13-2012, 03:37 PM
A's just got Cespedes and apparently us and Baltimore are out. Wonder who's going to sign Manny now?

wagnall
02-13-2012, 03:45 PM
Surprised Cespedes went to A's, never wanted Manny anyways, they can have him too. Thankfully we can put this to rest.