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View Full Version : Serious question here: How good is Melo?



daleja424
01-25-2012, 10:06 AM
I have a serious question for you all...

Is Melo elite? Is he an all-star? Is he even all that good?

What is your opinion on Melo?

Since being traded to NY, the Knicks record is something like 20 games worse than the Nuggets, the team he was traded from. The Knicks are off to another slow start this year and they are coming off their best game of the year, a game where Melo didn't even really do anything.

Given Melo's propensity for taking low percentage shots and given that he really doesn't contribute much else to the game (minus passer/playmaker, minus defender, minus effort guy) is he really all that good?

In my opinion, I think he has become overrated. I'm not sure that Melo is the franchise/max player he has been made up to be. Personally, he is just a bit too one demensional and his ball-stopping probably actually hurts the Knicks.

Thoughts?

king4day
01-25-2012, 10:12 AM
He's an elite scorer. Doesn't mean he's a good team player. But by himself, he's one of the elite.

Ebbs
01-25-2012, 10:12 AM
The dude is getting **** on recently but that doesn't change the fact that he is a top 7 NBA scorer. He also is a good rebounder at the 3 which rarely seems to get mentioned. He had a bad game tonight but his team won, so now everyone wants to call him out? :sigh:

They were playing the damn bobcats without arguably their best player. Their are college teams that could probably beat Charlotte.

Melo has had to take a ton of shots because:
1: If he doesn't Toney Douglas/ Iman Shumpert have proven they will take then despite not being good scorers.
2: Amare has slumped hard to start the season.
3: Dantoni's knicks are a poor defensive club as a whole and have to shoot the lights out to stay in games.

IMO Melo is still a top 10 player.

daleja424
01-25-2012, 10:16 AM
ebbs, you can blame Amare all you want... but consider this. Amare was elite in Phoenix. He was elite to start last year. Then melo came along and he is "slumping." That is not a coincidence IMO...

And guess what, Melo is shooting sub 40% on the year. When you are shooting that poorly I can hardly call you an elite scorer. That is called CHUCKING. When you get 17 points on 21 FG attempts it is time to consider passing the ball...

daleja424
01-25-2012, 10:17 AM
I'm not ranking on him b/c of last night...that was just the straw that broke the camels back. Knicks have been bad since they got melo and the nuggets have been better for having gotten rid of him. Im not sure that screams elite player...

nycericanguy
01-25-2012, 10:18 AM
You know I've been hard on Melo, but I think the Melo bashing is getting out of control. The guy is playing with a sprained wrist, sprained ankle, and a sprained thumb. We all know he's not a 39% shooter, he's at 46% for his career, the injuries have to be affecting him.

NY went on the 6 game losing streak right after Melo injured his ankle & wrist. His shot will come around. As hard as I've been on him there are few players in the NBA that can do what he did against BOS in game 2 of the playoffs last year. That was an all world performance. So I'm willing to give him time and not judge him at his lowest when he clearly isn't healthy.

When he was healthy he was putting up 27, 7 & 5 on 46% shooting before the injuries.

Lets see what he does when he get healthy and NY actually gets their PG back next week.

daleja424
01-25-2012, 10:21 AM
You know I've been hard on Melo, but I think the Melo bashing is getting out of control. The guy is playing with a sprained wrist, sprained ankle, and a sprained thumb. We all know he's not a 39% shooter, he's at 46% for his career, the injuries have to be affecting him.

NY went on the 6 game losing streak right after Melo injured his ankle & wrist. His shot will come around. As hard as I've been on him there are few players in the NBA that can do what he did against BOS in game 2 of the playoffs last year. That was an all world performance. So I'm willing to give him time and not judge him at his lowest when he clearly isn't healthy.

When he was healthy he was putting up 27, 7 & 5 on 46% shooting before the injuries.

and the Knicks were still losing...

How many other guys maintain an elite status despite thier team actually being worse with them on the team?

team success has to factor in here... elite players get their team over the hump...no?

we can't just throw out a 50 game sample size... where the Knicks are 10+ games under .500 since acquiring Melo... can we?

nycericanguy
01-25-2012, 10:23 AM
and the Knicks were still losing...

How many other guys maintain an elite status despite thier team actually being worse with them on the team?

team success has to factor in here... elite players get their team over the hump...no?

they were 6-4 before Melo got hurt.

Look obviously things haven't gone great since the trade, but Melo didn't all of a sudden turn into a bad player, and Gallo didn't all of sudden turn into an all-star, they are both still the same players.

Badluck33
01-25-2012, 10:24 AM
NYK are 13 good players away from become an elite team.

miller74
01-25-2012, 10:26 AM
Hes a good individual scorer in a team game, not much else

nycericanguy
01-25-2012, 10:29 AM
NYK are 13 good players away from become an elite team.

^ This!...

daleja424
01-25-2012, 10:31 AM
they were 6-4 before Melo got hurt.

Look obviously things haven't gone great since the trade, but Melo didn't all of a sudden turn into a bad player, and Gallo didn't all of sudden turn into an all-star, they are both still the same players.

Never said melo turned into a bad player... the question is really...has he ever been elite. He is the same guy today as he has always been... have we been overrating the guy though. Great scorer (albeit inefficient at times) and thats about it.

And I'm not sure I would be proud of starting the year 6-4 against the schedule the Knicks had the first 10 games...

Boston, GSA, Sacramento, LA, Toronto, Charlotte, Washington, Detroit, Charlotte, Philly in the first ten. There is exactly ONE team on that whole list that is currently slotted to make the playoffs... ONE.

Im not sure 6-4 against one of the easiest schedules to start the year is something I would be touting (losses to GSW, Tor, and Charlotte all really stand out as pretty bad for a healthy "championship contender"... heck even the Lakers loss is pretty bad considering they didn't even have Bynum)

airronijordan
01-25-2012, 10:31 AM
Melo is still elite....you can tell the injuries is what's making him look bad for the past 2 weeks

I'll admit his shot selection has been poor, but when he gets the ball, the other Knicks are stagnant....is it his fault that they're not moving around asking for the ball?
Also, Melo has stepped up on the defensive end this year....but again PSD is filled with Knick haters who don't watch games and assume Melo still plays no defense

How about watching the games before making assumptions

daleja424
01-25-2012, 10:33 AM
Melo is still elite....you can tell the injuries is what's making him look bad for the past 2 weeks

I'll admit his shot selection has been poor, but when he gets the ball, the other Knicks are stagnant....is it his fault that they're not moving around asking for the ball?
Also, Melo has stepped up on the defensive end this year....but again PSD is filled with Knick haters who don't watch games and assume Melo still plays no defense

How about watching the games before making assumptions

I've watched AT LEAST 8 Knicks games...

Of course the offense is stagnent... everyone expects that Melo is going to jack up a shot anyways...

I don't think it is an overstatement to say that Fields, Amare, and Douglas have all been worse since Melo joined the team...and I doubt it is a coincidence...

YoungOne
01-25-2012, 10:34 AM
lebron must be happy, because melo and the knicks have more threads them him!!!

daleja424
01-25-2012, 10:35 AM
An yes, I understand melo is injured and that is partly to blame for 39% shooting...but you know what else is to blame... Carmelo! If you are injured and unable to shoot 40% maybe you should stop jacking up bad shots and let your teammates help out a little. If Melo continues to shoot the ball even when he knows his shot has been off...that is HIS fault.

29$JerZ
01-25-2012, 10:37 AM
He would be averaging a Tripple double if Toney,Fields,STAT weren't so awful this season
He has been playing injured and early on he tried to play Hero by shooting everything to make up for our role players just flat out being pathetic up until last night.

I don't see Melo as an elite player but he isn't that far below it. He is a surprisingly good passer and he does rebound great and get to the line.

Lockout really hurt the Knicks in general.
And as for Denver your discrediting how good a coach Denver has in Karl and the fact hey already had a great core prior to Melo. Lawson/Affalo/Nene alone Is better thn everyone on the Knicks not named Melo/Chandler
.

Also D'Antoni for whatever reason has refused to make any adjustments and just allow the Iso movement. I understand we have a crappy roster but if you need the floor open to give Melo and Amare better chances at scoring why is Jeffries on the floor and not Novak who is our most consistent outside threat?

nycericanguy
01-25-2012, 10:41 AM
Never said melo turned into a bad player... the question is really...has he ever been elite. He is the same guy today as he has always been... have we been overrating the guy though. Great scorer (albeit inefficient at times) and thats about it.

And I'm not sure I would be proud of starting the year 6-4 against the schedule the Knicks had the first 10 games...

Boston, GSA, Sacramento, LA, Toronto, Charlotte, Washington, Detroit, Charlotte, Philly in the first ten. There is exactly ONE team on that whole list that is currently slotted to make the playoffs... ONE.

Im not sure 6-4 against one of the easiest schedules to start the year is something I would be touting (losses to GSW, Tor, and Charlotte all really stand out as pretty bad for a healthy "championship contender"... heck even the Lakers loss is pretty bad considering they didn't even have Bynum)

Like I said things haven't gone great. And I'd bet the house LA & BOS make the playoffs, its too early to look at teams records.

My point was you said they were still losing, but they were actually playing .600 ball.

Lets give this team another 5-6 weeks til the deadline, see what an actual PG can do for them, see if Melo can get rid of these nagging injuries. Its real easy to make this thread when Melo & NY are in a rough patch.

To say Melo is a great scorer and thats it is not fair either. He's an elite rebounding SF, he's averaging 4+ assists per game, and he gets to the FT at will. His career numbers are almost identical to Durant who is regarded as a top 3 player.

SportsAndrew25
01-25-2012, 10:42 AM
Melo was a great player for the Knicks but then he took a basketball to the knee.

nycericanguy
01-25-2012, 10:43 AM
An yes, I understand melo is injured and that is partly to blame for 39% shooting...but you know what else is to blame... Carmelo! If you are injured and unable to shoot 40% maybe you should stop jacking up bad shots and let your teammates help out a little. If Melo continues to shoot the ball even when he knows his shot has been off...that is HIS fault.

agreed, i think thats what he realized after the DEN game, hence only 7 FGA last night.

But also we've had an underachieving team this year. Landry Fields has turned it around recently but him and Douglas were absolutely horrible this season, there hasnt been anyone else to hit a shot.

daleja424
01-25-2012, 10:43 AM
He would be averaging a Tripple double if Toney,Fields,Melo weren't so awful this season
He has been playing injured and early on he tried to play Hero by shooting everything to make up for our role players just flat out being pathetic up until last night.

I don't see Melo as an elite player but he isn't that far below it. He is a surprisingly good passer and he does rebound great and get to the line.

Lockout really hurt the Knicks in general.
And as for Denver your discrediting how good a coach Denver has in Karl and the fact hey already had a great core prior to Melo. Lawson/Affalo/Nene alone Is better thn everyone on the Knicks not named Melo/Chandler.

Not sure that matter really... The Nuggets have been better since trading Melo. With basically the exact same team they currently have (plus melo) the nuggets were 32-25 last year. In the time since (with Gallo instead of melo on that team)... the Nuggets are, I believe, 30-12 (or so...I am eyeballing the stats)... what does "Denver had a good core" have to do with that?

Mishmin
01-25-2012, 10:45 AM
Great scorer, good rebounder, and underrated passer as well. But some players just aren't great team players, and I think Melo falls in that catagory. Even the other night against Denver, when Melo hit that incredibly difficult shot to tie over the double team, Shumpert didnt have a defender within 10 feet of him. The correct basketball play is to pass it to the open man, simple as that. Melo made it this time, but it's that frame of mind that will keep the knicks in a rut. Have to learn team defense as well, obviously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzh6r3tln7A

29$JerZ
01-25-2012, 10:56 AM
Not sure that matter really... The Nuggets have been better since trading Melo. With basically the exact same team they currently have (plus melo) the nuggets were 32-25 last year. In the time since (with Gallo instead of melo on that team)... the Nuggets are, I believe, 30-12 (or so...I am eyeballing the stats)... what does "Denver had a good core" have to do with that?

Karl is given good pieces to work with and gets the from it.
D'Antoni needs a PG and has shown he is incapable of adjusting or maximizing the talent of a roster you give him;he needs certain players and is stubborn to change that.

You look At Denver and their whole roster despite missing Thrill/Smith/KMart is still great. They got better because when Billups and Melo left Lawson got more burn and has been amazing.

NY on the other hand has a terrible FO who doesn't know how to properly build a team and just went after a big name to sell tickets 49% and worry about the roster later.

If you get Melo paired with Stat you need a great Center, A good Pg and a great shooter at SG. What we did was trade our last few assets for Chandler and expect Bibby/Lin/Jeffries would be suffice.

I really don't like to compare both teams prior to the trade this early because one front office knew how to get value for Melo and the other has zero clue into how to build a team.

Melo/STAT/Chandler can and will work come playoff time. The issue is whether Baron is healthy and if Toney/Fields are like last season.
Denver essentially didnt have to change much after the trade, NY did but just poorly planned how they wanted to build the team.

nycericanguy
01-25-2012, 11:03 AM
^ not to mention DEN was already a very good 50-55 win team before the trade, and NY was a .500 team.

JonnyBrav000
01-25-2012, 11:17 AM
and the Knicks were still losing...

How many other guys maintain an elite status despite thier team actually being worse with them on the team?

team success has to factor in here... elite players get their team over the hump...no?

we can't just throw out a 50 game sample size... where the Knicks are 10+ games under .500 since acquiring Melo... can we?


It's obvious you created this thread just to bash on Melo, he may be slightly overrated but you need to consider that he is playing hurt and the Knicks do not have any depth. It's not all on Melo btw, Amare is not playing up to standards, you can say he was elite in Phoenix and elite last year before Melo, but in Phoenix he had depth and Steve Nash, last year b4 Melo we had Raymond Felton and alot of depth, this is a different team, not Melo's fault. By the way, Melo is better than Amare, he is a better shooter, scorer and he rebounds just as well if not better, remember Amare is a PF and Melo is a SF. When Davis returns and hopefully in good form and Melo regains his health, you will no doubt eat your words, but this isn't a championship team yet, we need more depth and a reliable PG, not sure if Davis is the man for this team yet, plus D'Antoni is probably not the right coach for this squad as well, even though I like him. One thing is for sure, Melo is a top 10 NBA player, probably on the bottom half of 10 but no doubt among the very best. The guy is struggling now but don't for one second believe he is a 40% shooter, he is a great scorer and has the potential to do much more than that if motivated enough, he can rebound and he can also create plays for others if he is looking to do so.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-25-2012, 11:19 AM
He would be averaging a Tripple double if Toney,Fields,STAT weren't so awful this season
He has been playing injured and early on he tried to play Hero by shooting everything to make up for our role players just flat out being pathetic up until last night.

I don't see Melo as an elite player but he isn't that far below it. He is a surprisingly good passer and he does rebound great and get to the line.

Lockout really hurt the Knicks in general.
And as for Denver your discrediting how good a coach Denver has in Karl and the fact hey already had a great core prior to Melo. Lawson/Affalo/Nene alone Is better thn everyone on the Knicks not named Melo/Chandler
.

Also D'Antoni for whatever reason has refused to make any adjustments and just allow the Iso movement. I understand we have a crappy roster but if you need the floor open to give Melo and Amare better chances at scoring why is Jeffries on the floor and not Novak who is our most consistent outside threat?

cut the jokes please

Da Knicks
01-25-2012, 11:25 AM
Melo is elite and maybe its the homer in me but ill take melo over anyone in the nba. Bring this thread back up at the end of the season when Melo answers you how good he is. Baron Davis will make the knicks a whole new team, injuries and adjusting to each other have being the problem. How many games did it take the Heat to adjust to each other last year? They also had training camp and preseason something the knicks didnt have.

Slimsim
01-25-2012, 11:25 AM
Oh how things change When you become a Knick. Gallo has a thread about how he has unlimited potential the Minute he went to Denver and now We are questioning If melo is Elite. Should we Question If Deron is a top 10 pg

uprightciti
01-25-2012, 11:27 AM
he is great

done

justinnum1
01-25-2012, 11:27 AM
He's just not a good team ball player.

Slimsim
01-25-2012, 11:29 AM
Great scorer, good rebounder, and underrated passer as well. But some players just aren't great team players, and I think Melo falls in that catagory. Even the other night against Denver, when Melo hit that incredibly difficult shot to tie over the double team, Shumpert didnt have a defender within 10 feet of him. The correct basketball play is to pass it to the open man, simple as that. Melo made it this time, but it's that frame of mind that will keep the knicks in a rut. Have to learn team defense as well, obviously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzh6r3tln7A

Melo take that shot 10/10 times he's not Lebron in the clutch

redhorse
01-25-2012, 11:35 AM
melo is a good player no doubt. I just think he has to learn how to get his teammates involved and not take anything away from his game. Like jordan and kobe had to learn. Hes a top scorer in this league. Hopefully now hes learning like yesterday sure he only had 1 point , but he was finding open teammates and getting the rest of the team involved... now lets hope he can add 20+ points on top of that in the future and incorporate all those good things he did against the bobcats with his scoring ability.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-25-2012, 11:38 AM
Melo is elite and maybe its the homer in me but ill take melo over anyone in the nba. Bring this thread back up at the end of the season when Melo answers you how good he is. Baron Davis will make the knicks a whole new team, injuries and adjusting to each other have being the problem. How many games did it take the Heat to adjust to each other last year? They also had training camp and preseason something the knicks didnt have.

:speechless:

justinnum1
01-25-2012, 11:54 AM
Melo is elite and maybe its the homer in me but ill take melo over anyone in the nba. Bring this thread back up at the end of the season when Melo answers you how good he is. Baron Davis will make the knicks a whole new team, injuries and adjusting to each other have being the problem. How many games did it take the Heat to adjust to each other last year? They also had training camp and preseason something the knicks didnt have.

:eyebrow:

NYflightboy
01-25-2012, 12:17 PM
Melo is in a bit if a slump. But he didn't just become a scrub overnight. He's still one of the best and most versatile scorers in the league. He can still be very effective even if he's cold. Teams always have to respect him as a threat and he can create opportunities for other guys. He had a terrible game last night but was still able to help the team with 11 boards and 4 dimes in 27 minutes. The Knicks are still working on chemistry and kinks in the offense. They will be fine in the long run though the lack of depth is going to hurt them. Baron should help out but that remains to be seen.

JordansBulls
01-25-2012, 12:35 PM
I have a serious question for you all...

Is Melo elite? Is he an all-star? Is he even all that good?

What is your opinion on Melo?

Since being traded to NY, the Knicks record is something like 20 games worse than the Nuggets, the team he was traded from. The Knicks are off to another slow start this year and they are coming off their best game of the year, a game where Melo didn't even really do anything.

Given Melo's propensity for taking low percentage shots and given that he really doesn't contribute much else to the game (minus passer/playmaker, minus defender, minus effort guy) is he really all that good?

In my opinion, I think he has become overrated. I'm not sure that Melo is the franchise/max player he has been made up to be. Personally, he is just a bit too one demensional and his ball-stopping probably actually hurts the Knicks.

Thoughts?

It's probably similar to the Allen Iverson effect when Billups and him were traded for one another.

Fnom11
01-25-2012, 12:36 PM
I think Melo is pretty overrated. He's not a winner. He had a lot of talent in Denver and failed to win multiple times with teams with 10x more talent that Lebron or Wade. I can say without a doubt Lebron would've won a title with if he had the team Melo had in Denver.

nycericanguy
01-25-2012, 12:49 PM
I think Melo is pretty overrated. He's not a winner. He had a lot of talent in Denver and failed to win multiple times with teams with 10x more talent that Lebron or Wade. I can say without a doubt Lebron would've won a title with if he had the team Melo had in Denver.

The best player Melo ever had was Iverson toward the end of his career, or Billups toward the end of his career.

Other than that he had solid players, but never a true sidekick in his prime. Kmart, Nene...etc...those guys were solid.

Lebron played with arguably the 2nd best player in the NBA in his prime, AND a top 5 PF in his prime, and didn't win.

Also its really not fair to compare him to Lebron, Lebron is clearly far and away the best player in the NBA.

Melo had DEN at 55+ wins year in and year out, the west was not easy to win with Shaq & Kobe and Duncan, Manu & parker. Hell it took Dirk 13 years to win a title and he played with Nash in his prime and other very solid players.

wjmoffatt
01-25-2012, 12:50 PM
His an All Star. Could be elite when he pushes himself, but you can tell by his body structure that he isn't as hard working as what he should be.

nycericanguy
01-25-2012, 12:52 PM
It really is funny that we have a thread asking if Melo is that good, and another thread asking about Gallo's all star ceiling.

NOTHING has changed about either of those guys except the uniform they wear.

daleja424
01-25-2012, 12:54 PM
It really is funny that we have a thread asking if Melo is that good, and another thread asking about Gallo's all star ceiling.

NOTHING has changed about either of those guys except the uniform they wear.

thats true...but it comes with the spotlight and the expectations. If you play in NY and are supposedly a "contender" you better bring it. Period.

Rivera
01-25-2012, 12:55 PM
Melo is elite see when denver made the western conference finals .... melo played the best ball of his career that postseason run he played D took better shots made plays did everything for denver during that run and he had a great supporting cast specifically the leadership of chauncey

I will agree melo isnt an "effort guy" he doesnt play to his full potential everynight he can get lazy he loves to shoot but when push comes to shove and its time for melo to BALL hes one of the best players in the league....heck he had a great series against boston lst year...but thats the problem...melo doesnt play like MELO unless if its a big game or playoffs

So yes melo is elite hes a top 10 player in my book an all star...he just has motivational issues it seems and he can get complacent...but the bigger the game the harder melo really balls

Slimsim
01-25-2012, 12:56 PM
lol... funny how some fans like to dish out the heat and start 10 lebron threads a day dissing the man... but when someone posts something that isn't 100% positive about their own guy they go crazy...

smh that knicks fans can't stand a little heat considering how much they have dished out towards miami fans for the last 15 months.

I knew you made this thread out of Spite

nycericanguy
01-25-2012, 12:56 PM
thats true...but it comes with the spotlight and the expectations. If you play in NY and are supposedly a "contender" you better bring it. Period.

No doubt, but as currently constructed I think its well known NY isn't a true contender right now.

If Baron Davis comes back and plays like he did in CLE last year, then NY could be, or if they can sign Kmart next month.

If not they will have to wait until this summer to sign one of Nash, Felton, Billups, Nelson or MIller to run the point.

There is just no way this team can be a true contender with Douglas running the point.

daleja424
01-25-2012, 01:00 PM
I knew you made this thread out of Spite

not out of spite at all...

It is a legit question. Doesn't mean that statement isn't true. Why are people allowed to bash Lebron 24/7 but when I question Melo there is an uproar?

Fnom11
01-25-2012, 01:02 PM
Hmm I said that?... I couldve sworn it reads Kobe and shaq. So who's the retar... nevermind.

Lebron does have Dwane wade no? Widely regarded as the 2nd or 3rd best player in the NBA? And Chris bosh does play on that team no? widely regarded as a top 5 PF.

So wait, you're a heat fan and you joined in 2010... what a shocker!

I know it's weird, someone wanting to become more involved in a sport when their favorite team becomes relevant. That never happens.

bklynny67
01-25-2012, 01:11 PM
not out of spite at all...

It is a legit question. Doesn't mean that statement isn't true. Why are people allowed to bash Lebron 24/7 but when I question Melo there is an uproar?

It's not a legit question at all. Part of your question was "is he even that good at all?"

If that's not meant to bait, I don't know what is! Everyone was saying he's a great player prior to be traded to the Knicks. He doesn't go from being great or even just very good, to not being that good at all, especially when he's widely considered the best clutch player in the league. That's not opinion either. Look up his stats in crunch time. They'll amaze you if you didn't already know.

Kashmir13579
01-25-2012, 01:19 PM
When the Knicks go on a hot streak there will be retaliations. Mark my words.

Sadds The Gr8
01-25-2012, 01:20 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNGUYpLCSbU

That chant best describes Carmelo.

Avenged
01-25-2012, 01:26 PM
Pretty good. Not top 10 but definitely top 15.

daleja424
01-25-2012, 01:26 PM
Oh so only NY fans have thrashed the Heat. News to me.

not at all... but they certainly have been one of the more vocal fan bases...

Can you explain to me why it is okay for fans to criticize lebron but not melo?

Slimsim
01-25-2012, 01:28 PM
not out of spite at all...

It is a legit question. Doesn't mean that statement isn't true. Why are people allowed to bash Lebron 24/7 but when I question Melo there is an uproar?

Those guys are trolls you should know how the internet work. on the other hand you are a respected PSD poster and Know how quickly people bash big market players when they are struggling.

effen5
01-25-2012, 01:28 PM
When the Knicks go on a hot streak there will be retaliations. Mark my words.

Hot streak like the three game winning streak you had earlier in the season

:laugh2:

latinofire21
01-25-2012, 01:32 PM
Never said melo turned into a bad player... the question is really...has he ever been elite. He is the same guy today as he has always been... have we been overrating the guy though. Great scorer (albeit inefficient at times) and thats about it.

And I'm not sure I would be proud of starting the year 6-4 against the schedule the Knicks had the first 10 games...

Boston, GSA, Sacramento, LA, Toronto, Charlotte, Washington, Detroit, Charlotte, Philly in the first ten. There is exactly ONE team on that whole list that is currently slotted to make the playoffs... ONE.

Im not sure 6-4 against one of the easiest schedules to start the year is something I would be touting (losses to GSW, Tor, and Charlotte all really stand out as pretty bad for a healthy "championship contender"... heck even the Lakers loss is pretty bad considering they didn't even have Bynum)


This isnt NBA2K. They dont automatically mesh. THey needed a training camp. They had no training camp. They flipped the roster once again in this offseason. Regardless of who they played they were going to take some losses. They are learning to play with each other. Do what Baron Davis suggests. Judge them at the end of the season.

mjm07
01-25-2012, 01:48 PM
Before the season all Knick fans were saying "we're a top 3-4 team in the East". Now " we're not a true contendor as currently constructed ". :facepalm:

I for one, and I'm a Heat fan, feel the knicks are a dangerous playoff team even as currently constructed. And as a personally side not, i want nothing more for them to meet the HEAT so that we may dispose of them in any kind of fashion. sorry got a little of ahead of myself.

To answer the threads question if Melo is elite? I would have to say "yes" due to his immense offensive talents. But for all his talents he's greatly underacheived just like LBJ has in winning the 'ship but at least LBJ can say he's done more with less, brings it everyday more than Melo and has reached the 'ship twice.

MarshMelo cant argue against any of that.

nycericanguy
01-25-2012, 01:56 PM
Before the season all Knick fans were saying "we're a top 3-4 team in the East". Now " we're not a true contendor as currently constructed ". :facepalm:

I for one, and I'm a Heat fan, feel the knicks are a dangerous playoff team even as currently constructed. And as a personally side not, i want nothing more for them to meet the HEAT so that we may dispose of them in any kind of fashion. sorry got a little of ahead of myself.

To answer the threads question if Melo is elite? I would have to say "yes" due to his immense offensive talents. But for all his talents he's greatly underacheived just like LBJ has in winning the 'ship but at least LBJ can say he's done more with less, brings it everyday more than Melo and has reached the 'ship twice.

MarshMelo cant argue against any of that.

NY is definitely capable of being 3 or 4 in the east, they are 4 games behind PHI, but PHI has played out of their minds and NY has played horrible, those things tend to even out over the course of a season. You can't expect PHI to keep playing .710 ball, and NY .41

Realistically most Knick fans knew we weren't true contenders this year UNLESS Baron comes back to form...we shall see... he might play tonight.

Kashmir13579
01-25-2012, 01:57 PM
Hot streak like the three game winning streak you had earlier in the season

:laugh2:

Is that what you consider to be a hot streak? 3 wins against horrible teams? Are you trying to be funny or clever?

KB-Pau-DH2012
01-25-2012, 01:58 PM
He played his best basketball when he played with a veteran and high IQ point guard in Chauncey Billups. Knicks let Billups go, so now they need to find someone similar to him or an elite point guard like D-Will for Melo to back to 08-09 Melo.

Kashmir13579
01-25-2012, 02:05 PM
Realistically most Knick fans knew we weren't true contenders this year UNLESS Baron comes back to form...we shall see... he might play tonight.
This is what i'm saying. Smart Knick fans didn't expect much from 'MElo and weren't in favor of the trade at all.. None of us thought he would instantly make us contenders and we were aware of his flaws going into this. Out of the respectable posters in the Knick forum, how many would you say considered us to be title contenders at the beginning of the season?

Obviously anything is possible, and we do have some great talent, but i like to keep my expectations reasonable.

What this thread is about is Daleja displacing his anger because everyone hates Lebron. We know 'Melo has played like *******, it shows in his numbers and our record. We've also already had numerous threads this week that have covered the topic. The Knicks stink and 'Melo is playing like ****... what else needs to be said?

Baller1
01-25-2012, 02:09 PM
At least the Melo/Durant debates can officially be put to rest.

Hellcrooner
01-25-2012, 02:13 PM
Worse than the average Knick Fans think.
Better than the average Non Knick psd poster credits him for.

Kashmir13579
01-25-2012, 02:15 PM
Worse than the average Knick Fans think.
Better than the average Non Knick psd poster credits him for.

/thread

yankeesown69
01-25-2012, 02:28 PM
He's playing hurt right now and he really has been moving the ball more than ever, whether you guys want to believe it or not. When no one is hitting shots off of his passes what did you guys expect? He's going to say well i'm obviously the best option. Yesterday for instance people were hitting shots making some plays he didn't even bother to post up or take the ball in iso and shoot.

EnWhyKay
01-25-2012, 02:29 PM
When the Knicks go on a hot streak there will be retaliations. Mark my words.

Tell EM!

mjm07
01-25-2012, 02:44 PM
This is what i'm saying. Smart Knick fans didn't expect much from 'MElo and weren't in favor of the trade at all.. None of us thought he would instantly make us contenders and we were aware of his flaws going into this. Out of the respectable posters in the Knick forum, how many would you say considered us to be title contenders at the beginning of the season?

Obviously anything is possible, and we do have some great talent, but i like to keep my expectations reasonable.

What this thread is about is Daleja displacing his anger because everyone hates Lebron. We know 'Melo has played like *******, it shows in his numbers and our record. We've also already had numerous threads this week that have covered the topic. The Knicks stink and 'Melo is playing like ****... what else needs to be said?

I understand that you weren't in favor of the trade b/c it would've made more sense to sign him as a FA but Melo didn't want that and who knows what could've happened in the open market and Knicks mgmt did what they felt they had to do.

Now, how can adding Melo (top 10 player) with Stat( top 10-15 player and arguably the top PF) not be considered contenders? Not to mention Chandler who was supposed to significantly improve the teams D...plus whatever The Baron can provide.

Sounds like an excuses to me. LBJ has done more with A LOT less!!! As a HEAT fan even if we would've ONLY gotten Bosh i'd consider us a title contender. thats just my opinion.

Yes Melo and the Knicks are stinking up the joint. But as Delaja has mentioned you Knick fans are asking for a miracle if you're expecting the old Baron to show up. Baron will help but at this point in his career, coming off an injury, not being in good shape for years, how much will he truly help?

I feel they're both underachieving and not worthy of Elite status right now. I hope they snap out of it when they play the HEAT in the playoffs. Won't be as fun when we win. (ok ok ok last time i mention that :) )

DragonJaii
01-25-2012, 02:46 PM
I have a serious question for you all...

Is Melo elite? Is he an all-star? Is he even all that good?

What is your opinion on Melo?

Since being traded to NY, the Knicks record is something like 20 games worse than the Nuggets, the team he was traded from. The Knicks are off to another slow start this year and they are coming off their best game of the year, a game where Melo didn't even really do anything.

Given Melo's propensity for taking low percentage shots and given that he really doesn't contribute much else to the game (minus passer/playmaker, minus defender, minus effort guy) is he really all that good?

In my opinion, I think he has become overrated. I'm not sure that Melo is the franchise/max player he has been made up to be. Personally, he is just a bit too one demensional and his ball-stopping probably actually hurts the Knicks.

Thoughts?

no, no , no:facepalm:

blastmasta26
01-25-2012, 03:09 PM
In terms of pure skill set, Melo has one of the most complete repertoires in the whole league. His passing and rebounding are actually very good and his defense is better than given credit for. Is he elite? I'm not sure, depends on how broad that classification is, but he's borderline top 10.

The reasons that explain Melo's struggles are numerous. The most glaring is his affinity for isolation ball and his perennial chucking. This, in conjunction with his numerous injuries, has rendered him inefficient for the time being. However, the team around him comes into play as well. With no capable PG around him, Melo is relegated to point forward and the inconsistency of his teammates often inspires him to shoot much more than he should be.

The Knicks are composed of off-ball players, guys that need someone to create good shots for them. As a result, when shots aren't falling, no one but Melo can perform by themselves. We have yet to see what Melo plays like with a good PG next to him this season.

Melo may be overrated by some, correctly rated by others, and underrated by a select few. But I don't think that his play in NY should sway your opinion towards one category or another.

PhillyBoomerang
01-25-2012, 03:25 PM
Hes not a good team player on the Knicks.. in Order for the knicks to be any good they have to start working as a unit, just don't see that.. he takes way too many contested jump shots

nycsports2
01-25-2012, 03:39 PM
top 10 player

beasted86
01-25-2012, 06:18 PM
Carmelo should be the 2nd option on the Knicks. Amare should be the #1 option on the Knicks when they get Baron or another competent PG making the plays. He gets higher percentage looks at the basket and is just a better scorer than Carmelo.

latinofire21
01-25-2012, 07:12 PM
Those guys are trolls you should know how the internet work. on the other hand you are a respected PSD poster and Know how quickly people bash big market players when they are struggling.

News to me

VRP723
01-25-2012, 07:18 PM
The dude is getting **** on recently but that doesn't change the fact that he is a top 7 NBA scorer. He also is a good rebounder at the 3 which rarely seems to get mentioned. He had a bad game tonight but his team won, so now everyone wants to call him out? :sigh:

They were playing the damn bobcats without arguably their best player. Their are college teams that could probably beat Charlotte.

Melo has had to take a ton of shots because:
1: If he doesn't Toney Douglas/ Iman Shumpert have proven they will take then despite not being good scorers.
2: Amare has slumped hard to start the season.
3: Dantoni's knicks are a poor defensive club as a whole and have to shoot the lights out to stay in games.

IMO Melo is still a top 10 player.

No

Raph12
01-25-2012, 07:19 PM
Most versatile scorer in the league...

gotoHcarolina52
01-25-2012, 07:27 PM
Serious question here: How good is Melo?

You're only as good as your last performance. Carmelo Anthony is a 1ppg player. No better; no worse.

meloman1592
01-25-2012, 07:50 PM
Why so many melo hate threads?

Hawkeye15
01-25-2012, 07:58 PM
elite scorer, top 8-12 player, depending on personal opinion.

jimm120
01-25-2012, 08:23 PM
and the Knicks were still losing...

How many other guys maintain an elite status despite thier team actually being worse with them on the team?

team success has to factor in here... elite players get their team over the hump...no?

we can't just throw out a 50 game sample size... where the Knicks are 10+ games under .500 since acquiring Melo... can we?

uhmmm, weren't the knicks like 6-4 or 4-2 before he got injured?

?????????

justinnum1
01-25-2012, 08:25 PM
Top 30 player

His lack of defense is big, and i really dont like his style of play.

naps
01-25-2012, 08:25 PM
I never thought I would have to say this but at this point looking at pre-Melo Knicks and post-Melo Nuggets make me say Melo is cancerous. I previously thought he was a top 10 player but now I think he's out of top 10.

Knicks Boogie
01-25-2012, 08:48 PM
Melo is injured man chill.... Bad wrist, bad ankle, asking him to be a pg-forward.....Dantoni is a joke and makes the whole team look bad.

By the way, Knicks have a really good pg in Jeremy Lin that he doesn't even use.

PacersForLife
01-25-2012, 08:51 PM
All we see is threads about the Knicks, Heat, Bulls, and Lakers and how good their players are.

KB-Pau-DH2012
01-25-2012, 09:05 PM
Let's close this nonsense of a thread people!

jam
01-25-2012, 09:15 PM
Very good. Not as good as Lebron, Kobe, Dwight, Durant, Paul (healthy), Wade (healthy), or Rose.

I would put Carmelo at #10, behind a healthy Nowitzki.

naps
01-25-2012, 09:17 PM
My prediction in the other closed thread proved right in just 10 mins ;)

Celtics33
01-26-2012, 01:49 AM
This is almost the same as the previous thread about "if melo is a superstar?".

Ty Fast
01-26-2012, 01:51 AM
he's really good but he is having a hard time meshing wiith amare and vise versa. the lockout didnt help either.

Sssmush
01-26-2012, 08:34 AM
Carmelo is like the Duke Ellington of scoring

Sssmush
01-26-2012, 08:36 AM
This is almost the same as the previous thread about "if melo is a superstar?".

I'm pretty sure Bird beat off too

Evolution23
01-26-2012, 09:19 AM
Hey guys before you start going on bashing Melo, consider this, he is playing through 3 injuries.

justinnum1
01-26-2012, 09:21 AM
Hey guys before you start going on bashing Melo, consider this, he is playing through 3 injuries.

Most players are playing through injuries, whats the next excuse?

Evolution23
01-26-2012, 09:26 AM
Top 30 player

His lack of defense is big, and i really dont like his style of play.

can you name me 29 players better than me?

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-26-2012, 09:32 AM
Hey guys before you start going on bashing Melo, consider this, he is playing through 3 injuries.

Kobe has played through injuries the last...I dont know how many years:speechless:

Hitman21
01-26-2012, 09:38 AM
Kobe has played through injuries the last...I dont know how many years:speechless:

Yea, and Kobe also needed shaq, bynum, gasol, odom to win anything.

abe_froman
01-26-2012, 09:42 AM
not as good as general fans have been making him out to be since going to ny,but still top 5 sf and somewhere between top 10-25 player

Hawkeye15
01-26-2012, 09:49 AM
jeez, I thought I was hard on Melo. How can anyone here actually put him outside the top 15? If you do, please, list each player you think is better.

MCSJR2
01-26-2012, 09:54 AM
Melo is an elite scorer...when the game is on the line he's a guy that can hit the shot....he's been banged up and he was forcing things....I think he will ultimately be fine but the team has to figure out how to play better as a team

bmac
01-26-2012, 10:00 AM
As an individual player Melo is one of the best scorer in the NBA. Top 5 hands down. As a team player, who can put his own ego aside for the benifit of the team not soo much. I do agree you need those players on your team. Ones who you can give the ball too and theyll make the right play, but will melo do that?

I was watching some of the knicks game yesterday and i thought id watch for certain things. I wanted to c how many times melo was passed the ball and he either tried to score or pass to another player. In 3 consecutive plays the passed melo the ball and not once did he look to pass the ball and only scored on who shot. Now i cant sum up anothony on those 3 plays, but really. There is a team around you melo, they have decent scoring options around him so y not use them when the defence collapses on you? If anothony is going to be the man, dont let him have the ball and try to get in position, set him up in a scoring position then let him do his work. Once the ball gets in his hands. Its a black hole and the offence stops, I just hope when davis is back it can improve anthonys overall play.

But again as a player he is one of the best, on a team that plays team first play, which is usualy what wins championships he isnt that great IMO. With a PG who handles the ball and can set up teammates i think anthony would be player much better and wouldnt have to try and win games by himself all the time.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-26-2012, 10:21 AM
Yea, and Kobe also needed shaq, bynum, gasol, odom to win anything.

What this has to do with this thread lol?

29$JerZ
01-26-2012, 10:23 AM
jeez, I thought I was hard on Melo. How can anyone here actually put him outside the top 15? If you do, please, list each player you think is better.

Don't you know bro?
When the Knicks are winning its a huge problem for threads about them to be here, we are tired of talking about the Knicks, they are overrated and suck, leave it in the Knick forum, Knick fans are homers.

Then we we lose it a funny thing to talk about, have no problem disecting every little wrong thing with the team, can't get enough praising players that leave NY and downgrade those who play for them currently, they are overrated and suck, Knick fans are major homers, serves them right.

It's pretty sad.

daleja424
01-26-2012, 10:27 AM
Listen guys. I understand it is not all on Melo but... the Knicks are 7-11 playing against the easiest schedule in the league (http://espn.go.com/nba/stats/rpi/_/sort/SOS)...

Heck, the Clevaland Cavs have a better record against a tougher schedule.

How can we sit here and say melo is an elite player if he can't even lead his team to a decent record against the easiest schedule in the league. And I don't want to here he doesnt have talent around him. That is bull. He has a top 5 PF. He has a top 3 center. He has a guy (Fields) that Knicks fans have been calling the steal of last years draft draft. He has another guy (Shumpert) that Knicks fans have been calling the steal of this draft. That is more talent than most of the league has... If you cant beat up on weak teams there is something wrong with that situation.

Melo's talent is not in doubt. He is a gifted scorer of the ball. But that alons does not really make someone elite...does it?

daleja424
01-26-2012, 10:28 AM
Don't you know bro?
When the Knicks are winning its a huge problem for threads about them to be here, we are tired of talking about the Knicks, they are overrated and suck, leave it in the Knick forum, Knick fans are homers.

Then we we lose it a funny thing to talk about, have no problem disecting every little wrong thing with the team, can't get enough praising players that leave NY and downgrade those who play for them currently, they are overrated and suck, Knick fans are major homers, serves them right.

It's pretty sad.

welcome to the world of expectations... ask the heat, bulls, and lakers how that is...

rockbottom2010
01-26-2012, 10:42 AM
hes has mature like lbj and play the game right....

Evolution23
01-26-2012, 11:36 AM
What this has to do with this thread lol?

What does Kobe have to do with Melo?

Evolution23
01-26-2012, 11:42 AM
Listen guys. I understand it is not all on Melo but... the Knicks are 7-11 playing against the easiest schedule in the league (http://espn.go.com/nba/stats/rpi/_/sort/SOS)...

Heck, the Clevaland Cavs have a better record against a tougher schedule.

How can we sit here and say melo is an elite player if he can't even lead his team to a decent record against the easiest schedule in the league. And I don't want to here he doesnt have talent around him. That is bull. He has a top 5 PF. He has a top 3 center. He has a guy (Fields) that Knicks fans have been calling the steal of last years draft draft. He has another guy (Shumpert) that Knicks fans have been calling the steal of this draft. That is more talent than most of the league has... If you cant beat up on weak teams there is something wrong with that situation.

Melo's talent is not in doubt. He is a gifted scorer of the ball. But that alons does not really make someone elite...does it?

So pretty much you are saying, he isn't an elite player based on the 1st quarter of the season. So you discounted the rest of his career? IDK if you really believe what you are saying or not really looking into the big picture. The Heat were 9-8 to start the season last year. People were talking about them winning 72 games. Why don't you just wait and see how the season plays out. There are around 5 other Knicks/Melo related threads out right now. Whats the point of making another one that pretty much argues against Melo/Knicks. Pretty redundant, don't you think?

Kashmir13579
01-26-2012, 11:54 AM
Listen guys. I understand it is not all on Melo but... the Knicks are 7-11 playing against the easiest schedule in the league (http://espn.go.com/nba/stats/rpi/_/sort/SOS)...

Heck, the Clevaland Cavs have a better record against a tougher schedule.

How can we sit here and say melo is an elite player if he can't even lead his team to a decent record against the easiest schedule in the league. And I don't want to here he doesnt have talent around him. That is bull. He has a top 5 PF. He has a top 3 center. He has a guy (Fields) that Knicks fans have been calling the steal of last years draft draft. He has another guy (Shumpert) that Knicks fans have been calling the steal of this draft. That is more talent than most of the league has... If you cant beat up on weak teams there is something wrong with that situation.

Do you actually believe that? I mean, how good do YOU think Fields and Shumpert actually are at this point? Unless you're really just gonna go by what the hoopleheads are saying.

As far as our big 3, the only one that is playing like a top player at their position is Chandler.

Melo's talent is not in doubt. He is a gifted scorer of the ball. But that alons does not really make someone elite...does it?
It has been debated countless times on here whether or not 'Melo is "elite". Its a matter of opinion and he certainly isn't playing like it right now.
What is your goal in this thread you made? Is that what you want to hear from every Knick fan, or do you want us to say he flat out sucks and is a bum.

As Knick fans we gotta keep the faith, that he'll turn it around and we'll start to mesh as a team. I never was in favor of trading the statue of liberty to get him, and others feel the same way. Why do you feel the need to continuously rub it in that 'Melo is not Lebron James?

Jarvo
01-26-2012, 11:54 AM
Very good player, Give him a legit 2nd scoring option and a PG one the knicks they'll be fine.

*I just never trusted amare because his knees*

daleja424
01-26-2012, 11:58 AM
Do you actually believe that? I mean, how good do YOU think Fields and Shumpert actually are at this point? Unless you're really just gonna go by what the hoopleheads are saying.

As far as our big 3, the only one that is playing like a top player at their position is Chandler.

It has been debated countless times on here whether or not 'Melo is "elite". Its a matter of opinion and he certainly isn't playing like it right now.
What is your goal in this thread you made? Is that what you want to hear from every Knick fan, or do you want us to say he flat out sucks and is a bum.

As Knick fans we gotta keep the faith, that he'll turn it around and we'll start to mesh as a team. I never was in favor of trading the statue of liberty to get him, and others feel the same way. Why do you feel the need to continuously rub it in that 'Melo is not Lebron James?

This has nothing to do with Knicks fans to be honest. I know how KNicks fans are going to respond. If I wanted a bunch of people to make excuses for the Knicks I would have asked my question in the Knicks forum. I asked the question in the NBA forum so I could get an idea what opinion the average fan has of Melo at this point.

Im not sure how I am rubbing anything in tbh... I started a thread asking a question...

daleja424
01-26-2012, 12:00 PM
So pretty much you are saying, he isn't an elite player based on the 1st quarter of the season. So you discounted the rest of his career? IDK if you really believe what you are saying or not really looking into the big picture. The Heat were 9-8 to start the season last year. People were talking about them winning 72 games. Why don't you just wait and see how the season plays out. There are around 5 other Knicks/Melo related threads out right now. Whats the point of making another one that pretty much argues against Melo/Knicks. Pretty redundant, don't you think?

Not sure you can ignore a 50-60 game sample size (this year and last). You definitly can't compare the Knicks to the HEAT. Melo spent half the year in NY last year. The Knicks have no "getting used to eachother" excuse to burn here.

When I made the thread yesterday I didn't see any other Melo threads... I have since discovered there was one the day prior, but I did not see it.

daleja424
01-26-2012, 12:01 PM
Very good player, Give him a legit 2nd scoring option and a PG one the knicks they'll be fine.

*I just never trusted amare because his knees*

This is a joke right? Amare was damn near leading the league in scoring last year before Melo came over. If Amare is not a legit second scoring option then I don't know who is...

elonepb
01-26-2012, 12:04 PM
Melo is a dominant offensive player, probably one of the best in the league. However, he's very inefficient at it, which is a detriment to the rest of the team because he's clearly dominating the possessions. His defense is good when he tries, which isn't all the time.

I think he's 100% in the Top 15 players in the league, but not the Top 10.

Here's example of recent Melo-style:

http://i.imgur.com/e7aig.jpg

Kashmir13579
01-26-2012, 12:14 PM
This has nothing to do with Knicks fans to be honest. I know how KNicks fans are going to respond. If I wanted a bunch of people to make excuses for the Knicks I would have asked my question in the Knicks forum. I asked the question in the NBA forum so I could get an idea what opinion the average fan has of Melo at this point.

Im not sure how I am rubbing anything in tbh... I started a thread asking a question...
You asked a stupid question that has already been discussed to no end, that you already know the answer to, and know how most "average" posters will respond.

You have also cited the hate that certain fanbases had for Lebron last season, so i simply do not believe you had good intentions in making this thread.


Not sure you can ignore a 50-60 game sample size (this year and last). You definitly can't compare the Knicks to the HEAT. Melo spent half the year in NY last year. The Knicks have no "getting used to eachother" excuse to burn here.

First of all, only in a perfect world do BRAND NEW teams gel automatically. Getting used to each other is definitely a legitimate issue and one that Magic Johnson himself predicted would happen. He predicted all of this.


Hall of Famer Magic Johnson sees the revamped Knicks struggling early, but predicts they'll be battling the Heat and Bulls for the Eastern Conference crown next spring.

"Number one, the biggest challenge, is how do they come together," said Johnson, an ESPN analyst, Tuesday during a conference call. "How do they play as a team? We saw what happened to the Heat early on last year. They were not playing well together, and then they finally caught fire mid-season and into the playoffs. If you're not in sync with one another, the Knicks are going to struggle early, so fans have got to be patient."

Thats just a tidbit, the article is much longer and in depth.

Also, 'Melo's numbers were the best they've ever been for the remaining 30 some games on the Knicks last year, so you can remove that from your 50 game sample size of 'Melo playing like ****.

Rockice_8
01-26-2012, 12:14 PM
Listen guys. I understand it is not all on Melo but... the Knicks are 7-11 playing against the easiest schedule in the league (http://espn.go.com/nba/stats/rpi/_/sort/SOS)...

Heck, the Clevaland Cavs have a better record against a tougher schedule.

How can we sit here and say melo is an elite player if he can't even lead his team to a decent record against the easiest schedule in the league. And I don't want to here he doesnt have talent around him. That is bull. He has a top 5 PF. He has a top 3 center. He has a guy (Fields) that Knicks fans have been calling the steal of last years draft draft. He has another guy (Shumpert) that Knicks fans have been calling the steal of this draft. That is more talent than most of the league has... If you cant beat up on weak teams there is something wrong with that situation.

Melo's talent is not in doubt. He is a gifted scorer of the ball. But that alons does not really make someone elite...does it?


Well I agree with the strength of schedule thing they should definitely have a better record playing against bad teams at home.

Amare is not playing like a top 5 PF right now barely top 10 and Chandler is not a top 3 Center by any stretch top 7-8 yes. Fields plays well in the motion offense because he can slash since he's not a great shooter but they don't play that anymore since Melo got there. Same with Shumpert poor shooter but would probably thrive in the motion with his athleticism.

Melo is an elite scorer very few can put it in the hoop like he can (when he's on). When he's off however he doesn't do much else to contribute to winning (he is a solid rebounder for the SF position). He needs to defend and create for others to really be the player he should be. The guys that can do for others what they can do fro themselves are the true stars and right now Melo isn't doing that.

The Knicks don't have an identity. They play average D and have no shooters to spread the floor. Melo can only carry them for so long but that also takes his teammates out of it as they stand around watching.

They are in desperate need of a PG. Not that Barron is the savior but they need something. They have two very nice pick and roll players in Amare and Chandler and no one to run it. Melo should be able to run it but again that comes back to the creating for others thing that he seriously lacks. Let's see what Barron can do for them and if they still suck after that then they are trouble.

Jarvo
01-26-2012, 12:27 PM
This is a joke right? Amare was damn near leading the league in scoring last year before Melo came over. If Amare is not a legit second scoring option then I don't know who is...

He is good, But I just don't trust him at all and yeah he was real good LAST year but this year he's not playing all that well. I'm not saying trade him or anything but get a SG and a PG like nash or someone and they'll be better.

Kashmir13579
01-26-2012, 12:31 PM
And you never answered my question. How good do YOU think Fields and Shump are at this point? Are they game changers in your opinion?

What about our PG that we started the season with, Toney Douglas? Do you think he is capable of running the offense? Because i know you realize the Knicks are top 10 in defense and its our offense losing games.

daleja424
01-26-2012, 12:53 PM
And you never answered my question. How good do YOU think Fields and Shump are at this point? Are they game changers in your opinion?

What about our PG that we started the season with, Toney Douglas? Do you think he is capable of running the offense? Because i know you realize the Knicks are top 10 in defense and its our offense losing games.

Do you have any recollection of the what the HEAT's supporting cast looked like last year?

To answer your question: Fields is solid... Shump is all potential.

But honestly so you think Mario Chalmers (cerca 2010) and Joel Anthony are better starters than Douglas and Fields... b/c to be honest I don't think they are.

It is the nature of "big threes" that you will have not much around them... thats just how it is. Melo has enough talent around him, however, to be dominant.... the Knicks have to step it up. Right now it is BAD my friend.

And I assure you I did not/do not have malicious intentions here. I think it is a perfectly valid discussion.

Kashmir13579
01-26-2012, 01:12 PM
Do you have any recollection of the what the HEAT's supporting cast looked like last year?
You mean the Heat team that featured Lebron James? The best player in the NBA and arguably the best ever?


To answer your question: Fields is solid... Shump is all potential. Agreed. They aren't game changers.

But honestly so you think Mario Chalmers (cerca 2010) and Joel Anthony are better starters than Douglas and Fields... b/c to be honest I don't think they are.
Mario Chalmers is a better starter than Douglas without question. Douglas is one of the worst players in the NBA. Why compare Joel and Fields?


It is the nature of "big threes" that you will have not much around them... thats just how it is. Melo has enough talent around him, however, to be dominant.... the Knicks have to step it up. Right now it is BAD my friend.
I think you mean 'Melo has enough talent around him for LEbron James to be dominant. Lebron doesn't need a PG. He basically is a PG and one of the best at that. Yes it is bad right now.


And I assure you I did not/do not have malicious intentions here. I think it is a perfectly valid discussion.
Expecting 'Melo to perform as well as Lebron, in a role such as Lebron's is not valid. 'Melo is nowhere near the complete player that Lebron is.

daleja424
01-26-2012, 01:47 PM
Did or did not the Knicks come into this season with Championship asperations?

Kashmir13579
01-26-2012, 02:03 PM
Did or did not the Knicks come into this season with Championship asperations?

What is their goal supposed to be? Make it to the playoffs? I know I had them in the second round of the playoffs and i still do.

Way to ignore all the flaws your previous Heat-Knicks comparisons and ask a rhetorical question that can be asked of any talented NBA team.

daleja424
01-26-2012, 02:06 PM
What is their goal supposed to be? Make it to the playoffs? I know I had them in the second round of the playoffs and i still do.

Way to ignore all the flaws your previous Heat-Knicks comparisons and ask a rhetorical question that can be asked of any talented NBA team.

There is no flaw in my comparison. If you build a big three to rival the HEAT...you are going to be compared to them... plain and simple.

The Knicks put together three big contracts in the mold of the HEAT and so far it has not worked out for them. How is that difficult to understand?

The Knicks thought they were a contender...and right now they are bad... so they deserve criticism. No?

Kashmir13579
01-26-2012, 02:15 PM
There is no flaw in my comparison. If you build a big three to rival the HEAT...you are going to be compared to them... plain and simple.

The Knicks put together three big contracts in the mold of the HEAT and so far it has not worked out for them. How is that difficult to understand?
The Knicks thought they were a contender...and right now they are bad... so they deserve criticism. No?

So you think 'Melo and Amar'e's production and abilities are on the same level as Lebron and Wade. Thats what you are saying here? I just wanna clear that up.

LongIslandIcedZ
01-26-2012, 02:15 PM
lol this is a joke. Yes they built their big three to combat the heat. However, the KNICKS big three isnt nearly as good as the heat big three, and I think that is obvious to everyone. Not only is the KNICKS big three not as good, they havent played long enough to gel together, dont have a PG, didnt have an extra offseason to add pieces like the heat did. And to even infer that Douglas could be a better player and PG than Chalmers makes me think you havent watched a KNICK game this year. Oh and they dont have Lebron, comparing the KNICKS and heat at this point is just silly. Their not as talented, dont have the coaching, and havent had the playing time together yet.

daleja424
01-26-2012, 02:19 PM
So you think 'Melo and Amar'e's production and abilities are on the same level as Lebron and Wade. Thats what you are saying here? I just wanna clear that up.
Do I think that? No. But that is what the Knick's envisioned. They invisioned a big three that could rival the HEAT. If not...whats the point? That is what I am saying here: The Knicks built what they believed would be a contender...and right now it isnt going so well.


lol this is a joke. Yes they built their big three to combat the heat. However, the KNICKS big three isnt nearly as good as the heat big three, and I think that is obvious to everyone. Not only is the KNICKS big three not as good, they havent played long enough to gel together, dont have a PG, didnt have an extra offseason to add pieces like the heat did. And to even infer that Douglas could be a better player and PG than Chalmers makes me think you havent watched a KNICK game this year. Oh and they dont have Lebron, comparing the KNICKS and heat at this point is just silly. Their not as talented, dont have the coaching, and havent had the playing time together yet.
You must not be familiar with 2010 Mario Chalmers. Chalmers was WIDELY reguarded as the worst starter in the league and actually got benched TWICE last year. Coaching? Spo is widely reguarded as a poor coach. Time together? Melo and Stat have played 50-60 games together and have actually regressed...

Come on man. I know Melo isn't Lebron... But his actions (as well as those of Knicks) lead me to believe that they think he can be that type of player (A number one on a contender)...

Kashmir13579
01-26-2012, 02:19 PM
lol this is a joke. Yes they built their big three to combat the heat. However, the KNICKS big three isnt nearly as good as the heat big three, and I think that is obvious to everyone. Not only is the KNICKS big three not as good, they havent played long enough to gel together, dont have a PG, didnt have an extra offseason to add pieces like the heat did. And to even infer that Douglas could be a better player and PG than Chalmers makes me think you havent watched a KNICK game this year. Oh and they dont have Lebron, comparing the KNICKS and heat at this point is just silly. Their not as talented, dont have the coaching, and havent had the playing time together yet.

This is what i was thinking.

LongIslandIcedZ
01-26-2012, 02:22 PM
Do I think that? No. But that is what the Knick's envisioned. They invisioned a big three that could rival the HEAT. If not...whats the point? That is what I am saying here: The Knicks built what they believed would be a contender...and right now it isnt going so well.


You must not be familiar with 2010 Mario Chalmers. Chalmers was WIDELY reguarded as the worst starter in the league and actually got benched TWICE last year. Coaching? Spo is widely reguarded as a poor coach. Time together? Melo and Stat have played 50-60 games together and have actually regressed...

Come on man. I know Melo isn't Lebron... But his actions (as well as those of Knicks) lead me to believe that they think he can be that type of player (A number one on a contender)...

What actions are you talking about?

daleja424
01-26-2012, 02:25 PM
What actions are you talking about?

Requesting a trade to the Knicks. The Knicks trading their future for him. The Knicks spending all their furute cap space on a center instead of holding if for an elite PG.

Those things and more suggest that Melo is their alpha. Melo and the Knicks think he can be Lebronesque.

LongIslandIcedZ
01-26-2012, 02:27 PM
I think your the only one who thought that Melo would be a Lebronesque player when traded to the Knicks

daleja424
01-26-2012, 02:29 PM
I think your the only one who thought that Melo would be a Lebronesque player when traded to the Knicks

So if Melo couldnt be an alpha on a contender... why did the Knicks trade for him? Why have their built their team around him and his max contract?

get real dude. The Knicks expected much more then they have gotten so far out of Melo.

Kashmir13579
01-26-2012, 02:30 PM
Do I think that? No. But that is what the Knick's envisioned.
So why is that your argument?



They invisioned a big three that could rival the HEAT. If not...whats the point? That is what I am saying here: The Knicks built what they believed would be a contender...and right now it isnt going so well.
Woopty do? Should you deserve a cookie for stating the glarringly obvious? Who is even arguing with that? When you don't have an NBA backcourt you aren't built to contend. I don't care what you think "The Knicks" beleived. I don't know too many people who thought the Knicks would be in playoff form this early in the season and without a PG to run the offense.




Come on man. I know Melo isn't Lebron... But his actions (as well as those of Knicks) lead me to believe that they think he can be that type of player (A number one on a contender)... Who is "they"? and being a number one on a contender does not mean you are a Lebron "type" player.

LongIslandIcedZ
01-26-2012, 02:33 PM
So if Melo couldnt be an alpha on a contender... why did the Knicks trade for him? Why have their built their team around him and his max contract?

get real dude. The Knicks expected much more then they have gotten so far out of Melo.

I agree that Carmelo hasnt panned out like they've hoped, whether it be because of injuries, coaching or whatever. There is a big difference between the alpha on a team, and being Lebron. Carmelo is absolutely the alpha of the Knicks, the go to guy. He's not as good as Lebron, and quite frankly, no one expected him to be. I think your the one that needs to get real.

daleja424
01-26-2012, 02:33 PM
So why is that your argument?



Woopty do? Should you deserve a cookie for stating the glarringly obvious? Who is even arguing with that? When you don't have an NBA backcourt you aren't built to contend. I don't care what you think "The Knicks" beleived. I don't know too many people who thought the Knicks would be in playoff form this early in the season and without a PG to run the offense.


Who is "they"? and being a number one on a contender does not mean you are a Lebron "type" player.

Really? Go ahead and name one alpha on a contender that isn't an elite player. A player that is often compared to Lebron....

Show me the contending team that lacks an elite superstar...

Kashmir13579
01-26-2012, 02:35 PM
Requesting a trade to the Knicks. The Knicks trading their future for him. The Knicks spending all their furute cap space on a center instead of holding if for an elite PG.

Those things and more suggest that Melo is their alpha. Melo and the Knicks think he can be Lebronesque.

You seem to be on your own in that sentiment. And i don't think you have any idea the methods and reasoning behind James Dolan's actions. He certainly isn't a gifted basketball mind, and he is the one who made the horrible 'Melo trade.

daleja424
01-26-2012, 02:35 PM
I agree that Carmelo hasnt panned out like they've hoped, whether it be because of injuries, coaching or whatever. There is a big difference between the alpha on a team, and being Lebron. Carmelo is absolutely the alpha of the Knicks, the go to guy. He's not as good as Lebron, and quite frankly, no one expected him to be. I think your the one that needs to get real.

Thats the point...isn't it.

With Melo as the alpha the Knicks have been bad.

he is not lebron, rose, kobe, durant, dirk, cp3... and the knicks (and melo himself) thought he was.

And you are delusional if you dont think the knicks, knicks fans, melo, and a lot of people in the media didn't expect melo to join that group of guys...

daleja424
01-26-2012, 02:37 PM
You seem to be on your own in that sentiment. And i don't think you have any idea the methods and reasoning behind James Dolan's actions. He certainly isn't a gifted basketball mind, and he is the one who made the horrible 'Melo trade.

you don't think that trading your furture good players away to get a guy that has been billed as a superstar and then resigning that guy to a max deal is an indication that the Knicks were in "contend now mode"?

nycericanguy
01-26-2012, 02:40 PM
Melo is hurt, last year he played very well for NY, heck he was playing great for the first 10 games this year too before the injuries when NY was 6-4.

He is NY's alpha dog, but he's not on Lebron's level, i dont think anyone ever thought that.

27, 7 & 4 on 46% were his numbers before he hurt his back, wrist, ankle and now thumb.

he's had a rough year, but this is just piling on and kicking a guy when he's down... lets revisit this at the end of the year, or at the very least after the ASB.

daleja424
01-26-2012, 02:40 PM
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. IMO when you trade for a guy like melo you expect him to be the missing piece in your quest for a title. You don't expect him to lead your team to a losing record one year, get swept out of the playoffs, and then lead your team to a losing record again to start the next year.

daleja424
01-26-2012, 02:42 PM
Melo is hurt, last year he played very well for NY, heck he was playing great for the first 10 games this year too before the injuries when NY was 6-4.

He is NY's alpha dog, but he's not on Lebron's level, i dont think anyone ever thought that.

27, 7 & 4 on 46% were his numbers before he hurt his back, wrist, ankle and now thumb.

he's had a rough year, but this is just piling on and kicking a guy when he's down... lets revisit this at the end of the year, or at the very least after the ASB.

Melo always gets his numbers. Im not worried about his averages. I am worried about what his presence does to the averages of the other guys on the team and what that means for the knicks record...

anyways... It is fair, I suppose, to ask us to wait to render judgement, BUT it is also fair to critique what we see night in and night out IMO.

Kashmir13579
01-26-2012, 02:43 PM
Really? Go ahead and name one alpha on a contender that isn't an elite player. A player that is often compared to Lebron....

Show me the contending team that lacks an elite superstar...

Bulls
Pacers
Philidelphia
Memphis
Dallas
Denver

I could even list teams like L.A and OKC seeing nobody other than Kobephiles think he is Lebron status.


Listen, guy. YOU just made a thread that shows how far ahead Lebron is in comparison to the rest of the league. Nobody is "often compared to Lebron".

And you keep acting like myself and other rational posters have or had us contending for a championship this season. It isn't the case.

nycericanguy
01-26-2012, 02:44 PM
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. IMO when you trade for a guy like melo you expect him to be the missing piece in your quest for a title. You don't expect him to lead your team to a losing record one year, get swept out of the playoffs, and then lead your team to a losing record again to start the next year.

You're not being fair at all, we get it, NY has been bad... I don't know what else you want anyone to say.

Did you really expect Melo to win against BOS with a lineup of Jeffries, Mason, Walker & Shawne Williams?

Because thats the lineup he had after game 1, and he put up 42 & 17 and had that game miraculously won for NY before Garnett's game winning shot at the last second.

You're basically kicking and piling on a guy when he's clearly injured...

LongIslandIcedZ
01-26-2012, 02:44 PM
Melo is hurt, last year he played very well for NY, heck he was playing great for the first 10 games this year too before the injuries when NY was 6-4.

He is NY's alpha dog, but he's not on Lebron's level, i dont think anyone ever thought that.

27, 7 & 4 on 46% were his numbers before he hurt his back, wrist, ankle and now thumb.

he's had a rough year, but this is just piling on and kicking a guy when he's down... lets revisit this at the end of the year, or at the very least after the ASB.

Bang...

If Melo is still playing like he is now at the end of the year, then we can reopen this discussion. Making a thread talking about how poor someone is playing when their injured just seems like blind hate. Maybe I should just start trashing Wade cause the heat are doing well without him.

daleja424
01-26-2012, 02:45 PM
Kobe, Rose, Durant, Dirk, cp3 are OFTEN discussed in the company of Lebron...

And honestly... Pacers? Philly? Memphis? You think they are LEGIT CONTENDERS?

Kashmir13579
01-26-2012, 02:46 PM
Thats the point...isn't it.

With Melo as the alpha the Knicks have been bad.




You are a broken record.

Kashmir13579
01-26-2012, 02:47 PM
Kobe, Rose, Durant, Dirk, cp3 are OFTEN discussed in the company of Lebron...

by idiots.



And honestly... Pacers? Philly? Memphis? You think they are LEGIT CONTENDERS?
Was Dallas a legit contender?

BradfordIsElite
01-26-2012, 02:48 PM
Scoring wise, there's no one I'd rather have leading a comeback for my team or fighting in the 4th quarter in a playoff matchup then Melo other then Kobe and maybe D-Wade.
One thing I've said since the trade went down with the Knicks and Nuggets was that it was going to take a lot of time for the Knicks to settle in and adjust with a complete overhaul to the starting lineup..that issue still hasn't gone away. What it comes down to is Melo and the Knicks have played extrememely sloppy and have continued to struggle on the defense as well. Mike D'Antoni's system relies on speed and slashing, that's why Melo has impacted Stat's performance as well, due to the fact that there's no true point guard leading the team and playing the quarterback role in the way they desire. They've relied on rookie Iman Shumpert and career backup Toney Douglas to lead the role and that has caused many problems IMO..also why they've counted so much on Baron Davis returning from injury and have hoped for a re-emergence.
Melo has the ball too much at times and usually ends up trying to create space and force a lot of shots. A solid point guard would control the ball, make plays for Melo & Stat and reduce all of the wasted possesions the Knicks tend to give up.
Chandler was a great pickup for them don't get me wrong, but just think back to even last year in the 2nd half, the Knicks looked better then with Billups running the team then they do now.
Add a solid point guard with Fields, Melo Stat & Chandler and certainly you could count on them bursting out.

daleja424
01-26-2012, 02:50 PM
You're not being fair at all, we get it, NY has been bad... I don't know what else you want anyone to say.

Did you really expect Melo to win against BOS with a lineup of Jeffries, Mason, Walker & Shawne Williams?

Because thats the lineup he had after game 1, and he put up 42 & 17 and had that game miraculously won for NY before Garnett's game winning shot at the last second.

You're basically kicking and piling on a guy when he's clearly injured...


Bang...

If Melo is still playing like he is now at the end of the year, then we can reopen this discussion. Making a thread talking about how poor someone is playing when their injured just seems like blind hate. Maybe I should just start trashing Wade cause the heat are doing well without him.

For the 15th time... THSI HAS VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH MELO THE LAST 10 GAMES. THIS IS ABOUT MELO OVER THE LAST 50-60 GAMES.

and yes you expect NY to win....Boston was ATROCIOUS to start this year.

I am not blaming Melo solely. Other guys have also played poorly... but part of that is melo's fault too. Stat was an elite player at the beginning of last year. Then NY got Melo and Stat has declined across the board.

If you want to sit back and pretend this is temporary...fine, but I have seen the Knicks be a below average team for nearly 60 games now... enough with the excuses already... at what point do we stop and just recognize that they werent very well constructed.

daleja424
01-26-2012, 02:51 PM
You are a broken record.

as are you my friend...as are you.

LongIslandIcedZ
01-26-2012, 03:06 PM
The Knicks are an incomplete team. Yes I thought they would be better than what they are. But I think that just proves their an incomplete team. You seem to be a big basketball fan, so I will assume that you've watched Knick games this year. They have no one running the show. When the Knicks are slumping and playing bad ball, they are running ISO's through Melo. Even Lebron couldnt operate like that if the other team knew all he was going to do was ISO. That falls on the coach and the lack of PG. When the Knicks are playing good, which they do in almost every game for a limited amount of time, they have tons of ball movement getting Stat open looks and hitting Fields cutting. Anyone who has watched every Knick game knows there is something special there, when they are playing team ball they are exellent to watch. But as the game goes on they always get away from team ball and go back Melo ISO's and shooting 3's seven seconds into the play clock. A lot of the Knicks problems right now stem from not having a coach who can get them to play team ball consistently. Their defense has been much improved this year and I think Chandler is entirely to thank. I really hope he can back up Dwight on the All star team because he has been excellent this year, besides last night.

d nuggets fan
01-26-2012, 03:11 PM
Melo is definitely a Superstar. Gets 20 in his sleep, and one of the games best closers and scorers. The system has to be right for him to get the most out of his talent, but you can say that about every player.

Definetly Top 5 player in the league - don't kid yourself.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-26-2012, 03:29 PM
The Knicks are an incomplete team. Yes I thought they would be better than what they are. But I think that just proves their an incomplete team. You seem to be a big basketball fan, so I will assume that you've watched Knick games this year. They have no one running the show. When the Knicks are slumping and playing bad ball, they are running ISO's through Melo. Even Lebron couldnt operate like that if the other team knew all he was going to do was ISO. That falls on the coach and the lack of PG. When the Knicks are playing good, which they do in almost every game for a limited amount of time, they have tons of ball movement getting Stat open looks and hitting Fields cutting. Anyone who has watched every Knick game knows there is something special there, when they are playing team ball they are exellent to watch. But as the game goes on they always get away from team ball and go back Melo ISO's and shooting 3's seven seconds into the play clock. A lot of the Knicks problems right now stem from not having a coach who can get them to play team ball consistently. Their defense has been much improved this year and I think Chandler is entirely to thank. I really hope he can back up Dwight on the All star team because he has been excellent this year, besides last night.

Did you watch LeBron playing for Cleveland?

KB-Pau-DH2012
01-26-2012, 03:31 PM
Why is this thread still open?

LongIslandIcedZ
01-26-2012, 03:33 PM
Did you watch LeBron playing for Cleveland?

Yes, but Lebron had the willingness and ability to pass like a PG. When Melo gets the ball to ISO, no one is thinking pass.

Kashmir13579
01-26-2012, 03:33 PM
For the 15th time... THSI HAS VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH MELO THE LAST 10 GAMES. THIS IS ABOUT MELO OVER THE LAST 50-60 GAMES.

and yes you expect NY to win....Boston was ATROCIOUS to start this year.

I am not blaming Melo solely. Other guys have also played poorly... but part of that is melo's fault too. Stat was an elite player at the beginning of last year. Then NY got Melo and Stat has declined across the board.

If you want to sit back and pretend this is temporary...fine, but I have seen the Knicks be a below average team for nearly 60 games now... enough with the excuses already... at what point do we stop and just recognize that they werent very well constructed.

'Melo played amazing to close out the season. (for the 15th time) and what you fail to realize is this years team is completely different. It isn't the same group of guys and we do not have a PG.

You also think we should've beat Boston in the playoffs and that 'Melo is a Lebron caliber player. I don't know what else to say.

thapastime7
01-26-2012, 04:11 PM
i think melo is a great player even elite i just think he is a product of a halfocurt offense running post. iso etc. the problem is that the coach doesnt know how to run that type of offense. Dantoni is a run and gun coach and requires a pg to push the ball. the offense runs on ball movement on the break. that why amare was so successful without melo on the team they had felton run give and go, pick and rolls. so you have a team trying to run and gun with no pg and a player who isnt a run and gun type. to fix this they need a pg and a coach who can run a half court offense ....this is why i think the team isnt as good as paper. they need to play to stat and melo strength not the coaches.

amare =pick and rolls, LOW POST
MELO =iso, high post, halfcourt offenses
chandler = defense, putbacks

Dantoni= run and gun offense thru pg no defense as you can see no strength arent being used with the stars thus 6-11 record

Rockice_8
01-26-2012, 04:18 PM
There's no reason Melo and Amare can't work together but they are lacking two major components to their team. 1. A P&R PG to help with Stats game and shooters to complement Melo and his drive and kicks.

They have two stars and they didn't construct the role players properly. They have one true PG on the team with a bad back and they don't have good shooters off their bench. I still like the Chandler move overall but right now it's just not working.

Honestly they might be just underachieving right now only time will tell. They surely have the talent to get hot and be dangerous.


Edit: ^^ thapastime7 you make a good point about the offensive styles but if we can see it MD should too. If I'm him I'm running P&R with Melo handling the ball and Amare setting the screen or telling Melo to get his *** in the post. I think Melo could be so successful down there with his size and strength but I never see him down there.

BklynKnicks3
01-26-2012, 04:31 PM
people are complete fools who bash melo for this slump he playing with a bad wrist knicks where 6-4 melo was avging 29/7/4 then he hurt his wrist like 8 games ago now he cant shoot the ball in the ocean his stats and %s taking a huge hit and most imortantly team is not deep enough to overcome a half a melo.

therealwd27
01-26-2012, 04:32 PM
NYK are 13 good players away from become an elite team.

:clap::D

therealwd27
01-26-2012, 04:33 PM
Melo is not a SUPERSTAR..He is an allstar, and a elite scoring player at times.

therealwd27
01-26-2012, 04:38 PM
Melo is definitely a Superstar. Gets 20 in his sleep, and one of the games best closers and scorers. The system has to be right for him to get the most out of his talent, but you can say that about every player.

Definetly Top 5 player in the league - don't kid yourself.

Your kidding right??:facepalm:

What defines a "superstar"??

Someone who can score? Not pass well, doesnt play a good ounce of defense at all? Your a joke if you think that

mRc08
01-26-2012, 04:42 PM
Carmello Anthony is a great player. period.

The knicks need to fire their coach. Ive said this before, but if you cannot win with amare and nash in their prime, there is no way you are going to win with a melo in his prime with an aging stat.

The coach's system blows, i feel sorry for knicks fans they got stuck with this guy

therealwd27
01-26-2012, 04:50 PM
Carmello Anthony is a great player. period.

The knicks need to fire their coach. Ive said this before, but if you cannot win with amare and nash in their prime, there is no way you are going to win with a melo in his prime with an aging stat.

The coach's system blows, i feel sorry for knicks fans they got stuck with this guy

What makes him a great player? His offense? And I agree with you 100% about the Coach..

Rockice_8
01-26-2012, 04:50 PM
I wonder how long D'Antoni keeps his job? I mean how low do they have to go before Dolan gives him the ax? Can he make it the rest of the year when 75% of the fans want him gone and they are serious underachievers?

mRc08
01-26-2012, 04:54 PM
What makes him a great player? His offense? And I agree with you 100% about the Coach..

His offense def. I understand how you question other aspects of his game. I think with a better coach he could improve these other aspects. Look at guys like paul pierce, and how much someone like Doc and KG were able to lift other parts of his game. And i was careful with great, and not superstar. He has amazing talent but his resume hasn't put him in the kobe, dwade, dirk, or lebron category

blastmasta26
01-26-2012, 04:55 PM
Your kidding right??:facepalm:

What defines a "superstar"??

Someone who can score? Not pass well, doesnt play a good ounce of defense at all? Your a joke if you think that
Melo's not top 5 (or even top 10 perhaps), but you're also wrong with your assessments. Melo is actually a talented passer and a better defender than given credit for. You can say he doesn't pass as much as he should, but it's not like he's so far removed from super-stardom that it's incredulous to claim he is a superstar. His mindset holds him back, not his skill-set.

blastmasta26
01-26-2012, 04:57 PM
I wonder how long D'Antoni keeps his job? I mean how low do they have to go before Dolan gives him the ax? Can he make it the rest of the year when 75% of the fans want him gone and they are serious underachievers?
I think D'Antoni will end up finishing the year at least. If he's fired, the Knicks will have to resort to having Mike Woodson as the interim coach, and his offensive limitations will hold this team back even more, considering the Knicks have been losing games due to a lack of offensive output.

therealwd27
01-26-2012, 04:59 PM
His offense def. I understand how you question other aspects of his game. I think with a better coach he could improve these other aspects. Look at guys like paul pierce, and how much someone like Doc and KG were able to lift other parts of his game. And i was careful with great, and not superstar. He has amazing talent but his resume hasn't put him in the kobe, dwade, dirk, or lebron category

I agree with you..But even with the arrival of Doc Pierce still isnt a good defender lol..Garnett has always been a good defender..But a soild coach could def help..But 8 years into the league its going to be hard to break someones style.

therealwd27
01-26-2012, 05:04 PM
Melo's not top 5 (or even top 10 perhaps), but you're also wrong with your assessments. Melo is actually a talented passer and a better defender than given credit for. You can say he doesn't pass as much as he should, but it's not like he's so far removed from super-stardom that it's incredulous to claim he is a superstar. His mindset holds him back, not his skill-set.

True..he is a decent passer..but he doesnt do enough of it..I cant rate someone whos been in the league 8 years on what-ifs..Its what have they done so far..He is an ok defender and his skill set is def higher than his mind set but can a coach really change that? Its not like hes been surrounded by bad coaches his career.

mRc08
01-26-2012, 05:04 PM
I agree with you..But even with the arrival of Doc Pierce still isnt a good defender lol..Garnett has always been a good defender..But a soild coach could def help..But 8 years into the league its going to be hard to break someones style.

too many offseasons spent with J.R. smith maybe?? lol

thapastime7
01-26-2012, 05:05 PM
Melo's not top 5 (or even top 10 perhaps), but you're also wrong with your assessments. Melo is actually a talented passer and a better defender than given credit for. You can say he doesn't pass as much as he should, but it's not like he's so far removed from super-stardom that it's incredulous to claim he is a superstar. His mindset holds him back, not his skill-set.


not top 10 i would like tyo know ur top ten :facepalm:

lebron
dwADE
KOBE
DURANT
ROSE
HOWARD
MELO
DIRK
DWILL
CP3

YOU COULD PUT THESE TEN IN ANY ORDER BUT I CANT SEE ANYONE NOT ON THIS LIST THAT BETTER THEN MELO

therealwd27
01-26-2012, 05:08 PM
not top 10 i would like tyo know ur top ten :facepalm:

lebron
dwADE
KOBE
DURANT
ROSE
HOWARD
MELO
DIRK
DWILL
CP3

YOU COULD PUT THESE TEN IN ANY ORDER BUT I CANT SEE ANYONE NOT ON THIS LIST THAT BETTER THEN MELO

Top 10 Scorers yes Melo is in it..Top 10 all around players hes not in it, or maybe he sneeks in but def not an automatic pick

dtmagnet
01-26-2012, 05:38 PM
Not deserving of an all-star spot this year.

DoMeFavors
01-26-2012, 07:10 PM
I watch the Knick games over here since MSG airs the replays all the time even the losses. Carmelo has no idea what to do, for his 8 years in Denver he had a coach tell him what to do and players that fit him around him. In NY he has Amare who is the same player as Melo and they dont work well together at all, that experiment is a fail. The Knicks have Chandler,Melo,Amare even with a decent PG they are horrible. You dont need an elite PG when you have CArmelo,Amare,Chandler on the same team..again its just excuses. This Baron Davis idea will fail aswell.

Sssmush
01-26-2012, 07:17 PM
Denver thoroughly swindled the hapless NY Knicks, who now must answer to a furious Steven A. Smith SPARTA!!!

Punk
01-26-2012, 07:38 PM
Wow, only on PSD a guy can have injuries and a crappy coach and that automatically means he isn't a star, he isn't elite and he isn't an all-star.

Every "elite" player has had a good coach that has coached them. Melo/Amare do not have that in NY. Melo does not fit within the stubborn system D'antoni wants and he loves undersized players and uptempo basketball. Melo thrives in halfcourt basketball which is what Denver played with players that fit him.

Amare has no PG to pick n roll, pick n pop, therefore he cannot do anything but shoot jumpers. Which ruins Melo's role which is scoring and BOTH then require jump shots. Amare is just gaining his confidence and legs under him since he did not work out during the lockout, so he came into the season pretty much like Dirk.

Melo has a sprained wrist (Which probably needs surgery), sprained thumb on his right hand, ankle injury and lower back problems which is hurting his scoring.

But if you all want to really think a guy who led the Denver Nuggets to 8 playoff appearances, 1 trip of the Western Conference Finals and consistent stats not elite...Go continue living in that poor logic and just straight up stupidness.

Amare made his career off Nash, D'antoni made his career off of good PGs, Billups made Melo better which is why they went further when he got there. So, the logic that we don't need a PG and it's excuse is just moronic.

I am disappointed in this, especially when it's coming from intelligent posters.

daleja424
01-26-2012, 07:47 PM
Got it... It's all dantoni's fault. It is the coaches fault that the Knicks can't hit a shot or guard their own shadow.

Pease note... The lakers are in pretty much the same boat and somehow still manage to be respectable...

Anyways: I will stop criticizing the Knicks and melo when they play up to their potential. Until then... I think they are fair game (just like any other underperformers)

justinnum1
01-26-2012, 07:49 PM
Not deserving of an all-star spot this year.

denver owes a thank you to NJ also

blastmasta26
01-26-2012, 08:19 PM
Got it... It's all dantoni's fault. It is the coaches fault that the Knicks can't hit a shot or guard their own shadow.

Pease note... The lakers are in pretty much the same boat and somehow still manage to be respectable...

Anyways: I will stop criticizing the Knicks and melo when they play up to their potential. Until then... I think they are fair game (just like any other underperformers)

It's not the coach's fault, not entirely anyway. The problem is quite apparent if you watch this team play. D'Antoni's system prioritizes PG play and up-tempo ball. Name ONE good PG on the Knicks, that's right, you can't. Hopefully Baron Davis can be, but he is still questionable.

As a result, this team is very dysfunctional. Amare, Chandler, Fields, Douglas, Harrelson, and Walker are all guys who play off the ball. Melo gets them good looks, and occasionally Shumpert too, but the need for a PG is painfully evident.

And don't fall victim to the idea that the Knicks are still a horrendous defensive team. There have been bad defensive performances this season, but there have also been good ones, and improvement is clear. The Knicks have played sufficient defense to win games, it's just the offense that is showing ineptitude right now.

I don't know what you believe the Knicks potential is, but without a true PG this is not nearly a contending team. And Melo is not deserving of blame right now, he is playing with injuries and a different role offensively due to the aforementioned lack of a PG. He played well last year in NY, so it's not like he magically lost his game.

FriedTofuz
01-26-2012, 08:43 PM
very good scorer, rebounder and decent playmaker, but lacks defensive instincts

Sssmush
01-26-2012, 09:12 PM
Got it... It's all dantoni's fault. It is the coaches fault that the Knicks can't hit a shot or guard their own shadow.

Pease note... The lakers are in pretty much the same boat and somehow still manage to be respectable...

Anyways: I will stop criticizing the Knicks and melo when they play up to their potential. Until then... I think they are fair game (just like any other underperformers)

wow, when did NY start thinking dantoni and carmelo and amare was gonna be all that

justinnum1
01-26-2012, 09:16 PM
wow, when did NY start thinking dantoni and carmelo and amare was gonna be all that

huh?

Evolution23
01-26-2012, 10:21 PM
Not sure you can ignore a 50-60 game sample size (this year and last). You definitly can't compare the Knicks to the HEAT. Melo spent half the year in NY last year. The Knicks have no "getting used to eachother" excuse to burn here.

When I made the thread yesterday I didn't see any other Melo threads... I have since discovered there was one the day prior, but I did not see it.

Yeah Melo spent half a year here with Billups. Now you have a Rookie 2 guard running the point and a brand new center in a 16 game sample size. Yeah you can say Melo is playing like crap but you can't start discounting him as a star player just because he has struggled as of late. This isn't Space Jam, where you magically lose your skills without getting old or injured. That's another thing which you missed, he's playing with 3 injuries.

Now that you see the other Melo/Knicks threads why don't you close this one?

AIRMAR72
01-26-2012, 11:15 PM
melo is the exact, same type of player kobe bryant IS (chuckmasters) both are fantastic in practice but in games both stagnate their teams offense both LACK the will to make their teammates better if your a guy who averages 20 a game playing with melo are kobe will cause your stats to decline both guys HATE playing defense both are not the best player at their position both turn the baller over more than often both like to pick fights with the weaker guys in league and media call both of them superstars knicks WILL trade melo after this season

Hellcrooner
01-27-2012, 12:09 AM
How has this gone so far?

I gave the answer pages ago.

Worse than Knicks fans think.
Better than psd posters credit him for.


Seriously......................................... ...................Eat some spaguetti or kill some flys or something.

blastmasta26
01-27-2012, 01:56 AM
not top 10 i would like tyo know ur top ten :facepalm:

lebron
dwADE
KOBE
DURANT
ROSE
HOWARD
MELO
DIRK
DWILL
CP3

YOU COULD PUT THESE TEN IN ANY ORDER BUT I CANT SEE ANYONE NOT ON THIS LIST THAT BETTER THEN MELO
Do you understand the meaning of "perhaps"? Or would I have to put it in caps in order for you to comprehend it?

Gibby23
01-27-2012, 02:05 AM
melo is the exact, same type of player kobe bryant IS (chuckmasters) both are fantastic in practice but in games both stagnate their teams offense both LACK the will to make their teammates better if your a guy who averages 20 a game playing with melo are kobe will cause your stats to decline both guys HATE playing defense both are not the best player at their position both turn the baller over more than often both like to pick fights with the weaker guys in league and media call both of them superstars knicks WILL trade melo after this season

1 of them has 5 rings doing it that way along with an MVP and 2 Finals MVP's.