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RC3
01-20-2012, 10:25 PM
I am proud to say that this knicks team is over. WE won't make the playoffs. Isiah 2.0. Another struggling point for the franchise with so much optimism. :facepalm: There needs to be changes to this franchise.

Federal Reserve
01-20-2012, 10:30 PM
Melo is the biggest cancer in the NBA. He needs to get his overrated *** off the Knicks.

Hawkeye15
01-20-2012, 10:33 PM
I was wondering how long it would take some Knicks fans to jump ship. Remember when I had to defend myself left and right about my claim that there was no way the Knicks would host a playoff series about a month ago?

They have no guards.
They have no depth.
As long as Mike D is their coach, and their 2 best players are Melo/Amare, they have no defense. Getting one defender in Chandler doesn't do crap when he has wings coming down the pipe 200 mph at him.

I really don't know what you guys were expecting. Its the east, relax. They should make the playoffs, and if Baron can give them anything, they will still be a tough 1st round out, especially since depth won't matter in the playoffs with the games so spaced out.

Slug3
01-20-2012, 10:35 PM
Sometimes all it takes is one players only meeting to right the ship.

asandhu23
01-20-2012, 10:36 PM
I was wondering how long it would take some Knicks fans to jump ship. Remember when I had to defend myself left and right about my claim that there was no way the Knicks would host a playoff series about a month ago?

They have no guards.
They have no depth.
As long as Mike D is their coach, and their 2 best players are Melo/Amare, they have no defense. Getting one defender in Chandler doesn't do crap when he has wings coming down the pipe 200 mph at him.

I really don't know what you guys were expecting. Its the east, relax. They should make the playoffs, and if Baron can give them anything, they will still be a tough 1st round out, especially since depth won't matter in the playoffs with the games so spaced out.


Like a Boss, Hawkeye15 speaketh the truth.

Chill_Will_24
01-20-2012, 10:38 PM
Yes

effen5
01-20-2012, 10:38 PM
A year ago when the Knicks picked up Melo, Knicks fans were shoving NBA Championship down our throats....

Wow....how quickly things change.

itsripcity32
01-20-2012, 10:39 PM
Bye bye Knick "fans"!

asandhu23
01-20-2012, 10:39 PM
A year ago when the Knicks picked up Melo, Knicks fans were shoving NBA Championship down our throats....

Wow....how quickly things change.

indeed.

haggis
01-20-2012, 10:39 PM
:laugh2:

Chill_Will_24
01-20-2012, 10:40 PM
They need to hope D12 does to LA cuz them playing this way and Dwight+Deron in Brooklyn might be enough to shift the culture in NY

Phillyfan403
01-20-2012, 10:40 PM
Your very right, knicks wont make the playoffs.... there awful. Its hard to say it but, as a sixers fan, i love to go against Carmelo. He is a scorer but he gives nothing else. knows nothing about basketball and when the ball gets in his hands, play stops. Secondly, you can have an all star team and wont win with that coach. Its amazing what a coach such as Doug Collins can do to a team..... LETS GO SIXERS!!!!!

RC3
01-20-2012, 10:41 PM
I was always pessimistic about the trade. Its just like isiah would make.
Horrible. Jim Dolan will continue to destroy this franchise. A lot of people will be knick fans, but this kinds of non commitment from the organization is horrible. I would trade amare first for anything. And chandler also.

Chill_Will_24
01-20-2012, 10:41 PM
A year ago when the Knicks picked up Melo, Knicks fans were shoving NBA Championship down our throats....

Wow....how quickly things change.

That was only cuz they had CP3 back then...

Once CP3 went to LAC the Knicks' title dreams came down faster than their CP3 sigs

effen5
01-20-2012, 10:42 PM
That was only cuz they had CP3 back then...

:laugh:

KnicksR4Real
01-20-2012, 10:43 PM
The knicks suck. I still die for em, but damn

Phillyfan403
01-20-2012, 10:43 PM
I never understood the chandler signing... if u want some defense on your team start with a new coach instead of wasting all that money on someone that plays defense and has little offense. If u want defense and toughness, shoulda signed reggie evans for under a million. Does about the same as chandler.

RC3
01-20-2012, 10:43 PM
Knicks should have kept billups. But nooo. They overpaid big time. Thinking chandler an all star. LMAoooo

effen5
01-20-2012, 10:45 PM
I never understood the chandler signing... if u want some defense on your team start with a new coach instead of wasting all that money on someone that plays defense and has little offense. If u want defense and toughness, shoulda signed reggie evans for under a million. Does about the same as chandler.

Because Knicks needed a center last year....they just need to blow up the team. Starting from the coaches down.

itsripcity32
01-20-2012, 10:45 PM
It's alright Knick "fans." You guys still have the best point guard in the league.

Phillyfan403
01-20-2012, 10:47 PM
I hope they enjoy chandler because he could prevent them from being able to afford Dwight. Unless they trade Amare but then there right back to square one cause dwight is not enough of an upgrade over amare to be a championship contender.

JordansBulls
01-20-2012, 10:47 PM
Goes to show how underrated Billups was and how overrated Chandler is.

NYsFinest
01-20-2012, 10:47 PM
They need to hope D12 does to LA cuz them playing this way and Dwight+Deron in Brooklyn might be enough to shift the culture in NY

nobody will ever give a **** about the nets in NY... this franchise needs to stop trying to shove their arena in the projects of brooklyn down peoples throat. anyone who thinks atlantic yards takes over a team on 33rd and 7th is not from ny. Yes knicks sucks, but regardless what the Nets do NEW YORK DOES NOT GIVE A ****.... so STFU

Phillyfan403
01-20-2012, 10:49 PM
So nice to be a Philadelphia 76ers fan....

NYsFinest
01-20-2012, 10:49 PM
I never understood the chandler signing... if u want some defense on your team start with a new coach instead of wasting all that money on someone that plays defense and has little offense. If u want defense and toughness, shoulda signed reggie evans for under a million. Does about the same as chandler.

chandler has actually been the only knick starter that showed up this year... only player i am happy with right now

NYsFinest
01-20-2012, 10:50 PM
So nice to be a Philadelphia 76ers fan....

im very happy for you

Phillyfan403
01-20-2012, 10:51 PM
Yea hes solid.... but solid is not 50+ million dollars. Im pretty sure you dont have to pay someone that much the play defense. Samuel Dalembert plays defense pretty well... nobody payed him much...

Phillyfan403
01-20-2012, 10:51 PM
Ty Mr Sarcastic... u should be cause this is a team....

xxplayerxx23
01-20-2012, 10:54 PM
There 3 games, under in the east, Calm down. Davis isnt even back yet, too early to cry like a baby, They will be a playoff team baring a major injury, Quote me on that.

NYsFinest
01-20-2012, 10:54 PM
Yea hes solid.... but solid is not 50+ million dollars. Im pretty sure you dont have to pay someone that much the play defense. Samuel Dalembert plays defense pretty well... nobody payed him much...

centers get paid, i have no problems with chandler.... melo, amare, douglas, fields and d antoni have been to blame.

xxplayerxx23
01-20-2012, 10:55 PM
Billups is good chandler signing is not why were losing, wait until davis comes back lets see how he plays before we call this team a bust, and say the chandler signing was horrible, We need a new coach IMO and might get one, I wish we would fire him after the game

Phillyfan403
01-20-2012, 10:56 PM
True, but if your gonna commit that much money into building a solid defense, why dont you start with a defensive minded coach.... Chandler cant help if nobody else on the team wants to play any D.

Chill_Will_24
01-20-2012, 10:59 PM
nobody will ever give a **** about the nets in NY... this franchise needs to stop trying to shove their arena in the projects of brooklyn down peoples throat. anyone who thinks atlantic yards takes over a team on 34th and 6th is not from ny. Yes knicks sucks, but regardless what the Nets do NEW YORK DOES NOT GIVE A ****.... so STFU

Interesting theory. Disagree. The putrid product the Knicks are putting on the floor cannot continue if the Nets get Dwight. Will they become the #1 team in NY? No. However seeing how the Clippers have risen in popularity have shown me that we live in the superstar era now and exciting teams are enough to shift culture. Lakers are far better than the Knicks BTW so it might even be easier for the Nets than the Clippers to gain popularity.

LongIslandIcedZ
01-20-2012, 11:00 PM
They need to hope D12 does to LA cuz them playing this way and Dwight+Deron in Brooklyn might be enough to shift the culture in NY

Regardless of how much better the Nets become than the Knicks, the culture will never be shifted from the Knicks to the Nets. And this coming from a kid who is going to be moving to Brooklyn.

I'm obviously not going to jump ship quite yet. Changes need to be made though, this team needs structure on offense. They need set plays that will play to both Stat and Melo's strengths. When your only play is an ISO by Melo, your not playing to Stat's talents at all. I dont wanna just blame the coaching, because if anyone could get this offense going, it should be an "offensive guru." Davis should help, and there is a lot of basketball left, and all I need the Knicks to do is get in the playoffs as a six seed.

Edit: After reading your second post, I agree the Nets would become more popular, and they would probably get good attendance at their games from celebrities and such. But they would never be the number 1 team in NY.

Laces-Out
01-20-2012, 11:03 PM
Why do u think they signed Woodson?... it was an insurance policy for the team if it was going bad they would fire Mike mid season

nysportsfan02
01-20-2012, 11:03 PM
chandler has actually been the only knick starter that showed up this year... only player i am happy with right now
Exactly...

He's been great, but we are still now 6-9.

What does that show? He doesn't have a big enough impact on a team like how much he was paid. He isn't Dwight, he can't play team defense by himself.

Great player, but terrible fit and he is the missing piece to a TITLE contending team. Horrible signing.

Phillyfan403
01-20-2012, 11:05 PM
yea, cause he'll make them an immediate contender at this point... u dont buy into defense overnight.

beasted86
01-20-2012, 11:05 PM
That was only cuz they had CP3 back then...

Once CP3 went to LAC the Knicks' title dreams came down faster than their CP3 sigs

:clap:

Chill_Will_24
01-20-2012, 11:05 PM
Regardless of how much better the Nets become than the Knicks, the culture will never be shifted from the Knicks to the Nets. And this coming from a kid who is going to be moving to Brooklyn.

I'm obviously not going to jump ship quite yet. Changes need to be made though, this team needs structure on offense. They need set plays that will play to both Stat and Melo's strengths. When your only play is an ISO by Melo, your not playing to Stat's talents at all. I dont wanna just blame the coaching, because if anyone could get this offense going, it should be an "offensive guru." Davis should help, and there is a lot of basketball left, and all I need the Knicks to do is get in the playoffs as a six seed.

I disagree Brooklyn boy. See the Clippers. The Lakers>>>>>>>>> the Knicks and are more pupular than them too. If LAC can do it then why not a winning Nets team in Brooklyn with Deron and Dwight?

Btw im not saying the Nets will get Dwight. I still think LA gets him. However im speaking merely hypothetically

Tmath
01-20-2012, 11:06 PM
Haha this is hilarious.

xxplayerxx23
01-20-2012, 11:08 PM
Melo hasnt shot well latley but he hasnt been what you would call bad, amare needs a decent pg to run the pick and roll davis will help watch

NYsFinest
01-20-2012, 11:08 PM
Interesting theory. Disagree. The putrid product the Knicks are putting on the floor cannot continue if the Nets get Dwight. Will they become the #1 team in NY? No. However seeing how the Clippers have risen in popularity have shown me that we live in the superstar era now and exciting teams are enough to shift culture. Lakers are far better than the Knicks BTW so it might even be easier for the Nets than the Clippers to gain popularity.

Clippers play in the Staples Center in LA, Nets are going to play in the hood in Brooklyn.. don't need Net fan telling me about disfunctional franchises. Hold on to Deron first before "taking over NY"

effen5
01-20-2012, 11:09 PM
There 3 games, under in the east, Calm down. Davis isnt even back yet, too early to cry like a baby, They will be a playoff team baring a major injury, Quote me on that.

Thats no the point, the point is look at the team they are losing to with an easy schedule....that is alarming.

Phillyfan403
01-20-2012, 11:10 PM
lol yea davis will help alot when your team cant play defense.... what dont you understand about DEFENSE.... it helps.

jimbobjarree
01-20-2012, 11:10 PM
they hurt my eyes

NYsFinest
01-20-2012, 11:12 PM
I disagree Brooklyn boy. See the Clippers. The Lakers>>>>>>>>> the Knicks and are more pupular than them too. If LAC can do it then why not a winning Nets team in Brooklyn with Deron and Dwight?

Btw im not saying the Nets will get Dwight. I still think LA gets him. However im speaking merely hypothetically

I wonder if you're from the NY area.... have you been to the area where the Nets are building their "super arena" to "steal Knick fans"

Cal827
01-20-2012, 11:12 PM
They allowed Brandon Jennings to shoot over 50%. BRANDON F***ING JENNINGS. HE CAN'T HIT THE SIDE OF A BARN. 2012 MUST BE REAL. EVERYONE HEAD FOR THE SHELTERS!

Chill_Will_24
01-20-2012, 11:13 PM
Clippers play in the Staples Center in LA, Nets are going to play in the hood in Brooklyn.. don't need Net fan telling me about disfunctional franchises. Hold on to Deron first before "taking over NY"

Thanks for not replying to my post and proving my point. So now the Nets wont rise in popularity cuz there are hoods in Brooklyn? I forgot LA has no hoods.

xxplayerxx23
01-20-2012, 11:15 PM
Thats no the point, the point is look at the team they are losing to with an easy schedule....that is alarming.

No doubt, not disagree on that, But you have to realize our pg is a rookie that is more of a 2 guard, He isnt bad but nobody can run the P&R as of right now, Davis will come in and auto make them a better P&R team, Amare will then get going, Mike D system doenst work without a pg, Hopefully davis can come back and get our offense back in rythm

NYsFinest
01-20-2012, 11:16 PM
Thanks for not replying to my post and proving my point. So now the Nets wont rise in popularity cuz there are hoods in Brooklyn? I forgot LA has no hoods.

The team in the center of Manhattan will always be NYs team.... location is everything, your current Nets play half an hour from the city and people treat them like a minor league team. Brooklyn is an improvement, but still not a threat to the Knicks.

Knicks are not contendrs but will be a playoff team and will be better in 2012. Nets aren't coming in to NY without a decent team in the area already, lets not overreact 15 games into the season.

xxplayerxx23
01-20-2012, 11:17 PM
lol yea davis will help alot when your team cant play defense.... what dont you understand about DEFENSE.... it helps.

Lol You make no sense at all, What dont you understand THAT THIS COACH system doesnt work without a pg that can play, we have a 2 guard playing PG For us, davis is a true pgm How will he not help a lot

Team*Chicago
01-20-2012, 11:18 PM
This was not a dissapointment at all, this was exactly what the Knicks wanted. They just wanted to collect as many all-stars as they can to compete with the heat in a popularity contest not to win at all while the heat is trying to be like the "Boston Celtics Big 3 want'na Bes".


A year ago when the Knicks picked up Melo, Knicks fans were shoving NBA Championship down our throats....

Wow....how quickly things change.

I remember that too and they thought they were on the Bulls and cryami heat level as a 3rd seed after they were the only team to get swepted in the 1st round of the playoffs and the only team in the playoffs with no wins.

Chill_Will_24
01-20-2012, 11:21 PM
I wonder if you're from the NY area.... have you been to the area where the Nets are building their "super arena" to "steal Knick fans"

Lol what does this have to do with popularity? And to answer your question yes i have and idk what your talking about. Its no worse than some partd of LA ive been to. If your that scared of getting "beat up" at night maybe you should carry a tazer :laugh2:

In all seriousness, Atlantic Yards is not a "hood". You seem clueless.

BTW dont get so butt hurt and hostile. This isnt a Nets vs Knicks thread. I stated my opinion on a point and thats the end of it.

VillaMaravilla
01-20-2012, 11:21 PM
Can we please get back gallo and company you guys (denver) can have melo back

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-20-2012, 11:23 PM
I told that amare and melo aint gonna mesh. Well it got worse cause they used their amnesty to sign Chandler( very very questionable move, should have saved the amnesty...but what can you except they are the knicks:shrug:)

xxplayerxx23
01-20-2012, 11:24 PM
This was not a dissapointment at all, this was exactly what the Knicks wanted. They just wanted to collect as many all-stars as they can to compete with the heat in a popularity contest not to win at all while the heat is trying to be like the "Boston Celtics Big 3 want'na Bes".



I remember that too and they thought they were on the Bulls and cryami heat level as a 3rd seed after they were the only team to get swepted in the 1st round of the playoffs and the only team in the playoffs with no wins.

Anybody that didnt see the knicks struggling in the beggining was blind, I called a bad start to the season from the very beggining, Like i have said 5 times in this thread once they get there pg they will be fine and ,Cryami seemed to beat your bulls pretty easily in the playoffs, and oh yeah losing billups and amare had nothing to do with them getting swepted. Couldnt of had anything to do with it, I must be a homer becuase when you lose 2 of your 3 good players you still should win. rose, and boozer get injuried the bulls would of still won the series

Team*Chicago
01-20-2012, 11:26 PM
I told that amare and melo aint gonna mesh. Well it got worse cause they used their amnesty to sign Chandler( very very questionable move, should have saved the amnesty...but what can you except they are the knicks:shrug:)

:nod:

SportsAndrew25
01-20-2012, 11:28 PM
I do not think I have been this ashamed to be a Knicks fan in a long time. I thought that the Knicks were going to turn the corner and and become one of the elite teams in the NBA. I guess I was wrong.

:puke:

akagiredsuns
01-20-2012, 11:28 PM
LOL After all the crap that was said about how Melo would be the missing piece and it was over for everyone. Can't win without a star point guard, unless you're the Bulls of course who showed that tonight winning by 39. :cheers:

effen5
01-20-2012, 11:28 PM
Can we please get back gallo and company you guys (denver) can have melo back

:laugh2:

heyman321
01-20-2012, 11:29 PM
They are terrible. They need to fire D'Antoni, get a point guard who can facilitate which I suspect Baron is not, and they need to start playing D.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-20-2012, 11:29 PM
There 3 games, under in the east, Calm down. Davis isnt even back yet, too early to cry like a baby, They will be a playoff team baring a major injury, Quote me on that.

knicks have had pretty much the easiest schedule in the league right now

Chill_Will_24
01-20-2012, 11:29 PM
The team in the center of Manhattan will always be NYs team.... location is everything, your current Nets play half an hour from the city and people treat them like a minor league team. Brooklyn is an improvement, but still not a threat to the Knicks.

NJ is not Brooklyn. NJ is a horrible sports location. In Brooklyn this will never be a problem.

You still havent answered my question. Why cant the Nets in Brooklyn with Deron and Dwight gain as much or more popularity than the Clippers in LA?

LA is the most popular team in the league. They are superior to the Knicks in every way. Yet the Clippers are gaining ground fast. Why cant the Nets do the same with Deron and Dwight vs the Knicks with the Knicks playing this way?

We live in a "what have you done for me lately" superteam era now. The Knicks havent won a single playoff game in 11 years.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-20-2012, 11:30 PM
Billups is good chandler signing is not why were losing, wait until davis comes back lets see how he plays before we call this team a bust, and say the chandler signing was horrible, We need a new coach IMO and might get one, I wish we would fire him after the game

I say it was still a bad signing, but what makes it worse is that Knicks used AMNESTY to sign Chandler

effen5
01-20-2012, 11:30 PM
Anybody that didnt see the knicks struggling in the beggining was blind, I called a bad start to the season from the very beggining, Like i have said 5 times in this thread once they get there pg they will be fine and ,Cryami seemed to beat your bulls pretty easily in the playoffs, and oh yeah losing billups and amare had nothing to do with them getting swepted. Couldnt of had anything to do with it, I must be a homer becuase when you lose 2 of your 3 good players you still should win. rose, and boozer get injuried the bulls would of still won the series

Wrong. All the games were fairly close.

effen5
01-20-2012, 11:31 PM
knicks have had pretty much the easiest schedule in the league right now

Seriously, what happens when they start playing the good teams.

uprightciti
01-20-2012, 11:32 PM
i am so upset right now i could puke

xxplayerxx23
01-20-2012, 11:33 PM
Wrong. All the games were fairly close.

So close gets you nothing , both teams were healthy and the series was 4-1 , Its not that big of a deal, I was just saying it to that guy cuz I didnt like the cryami remark

Team*Chicago
01-20-2012, 11:34 PM
Anybody that didnt see the knicks struggling in the beggining was blind, I called a bad start to the season from the very beggining, Like i have said 5 times in this thread once they get there pg they will be fine and ,Cryami seemed to beat your bulls pretty easily in the playoffs, and oh yeah losing billups and amare had nothing to do with them getting swepted. Couldnt of had anything to do with it, I must be a homer becuase when you lose 2 of your 3 good players you still should win. rose, and boozer get injuried the bulls would of still won the series

Don't get mad at me because your overhyped wack *** team sucks. There's still no excuse of why the knicks aren't good, PG or no PG there's still no excuses why they aren't beating losing teams that's worser than them. Atleast the Bulls were able to snag a win from the cryami heat playing 4 against 5 on offense with injuries against a fully healthy heat at their peak strength that could have had the results the other way around.

LongIslandIcedZ
01-20-2012, 11:34 PM
I disagree Brooklyn boy. See the Clippers. The Lakers>>>>>>>>> the Knicks and are more pupular than them too. If LAC can do it then why not a winning Nets team in Brooklyn with Deron and Dwight?

Btw im not saying the Nets will get Dwight. I still think LA gets him. However im speaking merely hypothetically

What are you disagreeing with? I said the Nets would be popular if they got Dwight and Deron and they won. Having said that, they will always be nothing more than the Mets were to the Yankees.

Also, seriously, Brooklyn boy? Grow up

xxplayerxx23
01-20-2012, 11:35 PM
I say it was still a bad signing, but what makes it worse is that Knicks used AMNESTY to sign Chandler

I disagree, he isnt playing bad at all. He is overpaied but most centers this year have been payed big money. there banking on davis to be good, and if davis is in shape he can be, Yes the Amnesty being used sucks, But ill stick by chandler

Robbw241
01-20-2012, 11:38 PM
Melo is the biggest cancer in the NBA. He needs to get his overrated *** off the Knicks.

Didn't like 4 hours ago you said the Nets would have to throw in Brooks with Deron Williams to get Melo? lol

xxplayerxx23
01-20-2012, 11:38 PM
Don't get mad at because your overhyped wack *** team sucks. There's still no excuse of why the knicks aren't good, PG or no PG there's still no excuses why they aren't beating losing teams that's worser than them. Atleast the Bulls were able to snag a win from the cryami heat playing 4 against 5 on offense with injuries against a fully healthy heat at their peak strength that could have had the results the other way around.

lol Maybe you should read, Overhyped by who fans on this site ok big deal, Ofcourse there ganna strugle they Have no pg, Talk to me 3 weeks after davis comes back. My team isnt going anywhere but either is yours, You cant beat miami. And :clap: you got 1 game against them no way, What does that do for you?

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-20-2012, 11:38 PM
They are terrible. They need to fire D'Antoni, get a point guard who can facilitate which I suspect Baron is not, and they need to start playing D.

:facepalm:

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-20-2012, 11:39 PM
Knicks cap is bad. Glad my boys won. Jennings shooting the lights out and Delfino ticking cry baby Melo off. Excellent game. I would still trade Jackson and Bogut though. Jennings never got to the free throw line but scoring like 36 points and no free throws. Just cause hes tiny refs give no respect when hes bumped? Give me a break! If Jennings got respect and some foul call he would of had 50 easy. Bucks half game away from 8th seed. Darn was hoping lottery pick.

NYsFinest
01-20-2012, 11:42 PM
NJ is not Brooklyn. NJ is a horrible sports location. In Brooklyn this will never be a problem.

You still havent answered my question. Why cant the Nets in Brooklyn with Deron and Dwight gain as much or more popularity than the Clippers in LA?

LA is the most popular team in the league. They are superior to the Knicks in every way. Yet the Clippers are gaining ground fast. Why cant the Nets do the same with Deron and Dwight vs the Knicks with the Knicks playing this way?

We live in a "what have you done for me lately" superteam era now. The Knicks havent won a single playoff game in 11 years.

Because NYC is Knick country, LA is still Laker country and always will be. Clippers are getting some hype, but i cant ever see them taking the lakers place. Nets would be just as exciting with dwight.... but still be second fiddle popularity wise

And i don't understand how you don't realize that location within NYC still matters to popularity... That's like saying the GS Warriors play in California and that the Lakers should be worried if the Warriors start loading up on stars.

I also think you are realllyy overrating Brooklyn.

justinnum1
01-20-2012, 11:45 PM
So close gets you nothing , both teams were healthy and the series was 4-1 , Its not that big of a deal, I was just saying it to that guy cuz I didnt like the cryami remark

miller and haslem were no where close to healthy

MTL_123
01-20-2012, 11:45 PM
Don't get mad at me because your overhyped wack *** team sucks. There's still no excuse of why the knicks aren't good, PG or no PG there's still no excuses why they aren't beating losing teams that's worser than them. Atleast the Bulls were able to snag a win from the cryami heat playing 4 against 5 on offense with injuries against a fully healthy heat at their peak strength that could have had the results the other way around.

4-5 wat because u had bogans we had anthony as our starter both of them couldnt score so it was 4-4. And for the health part Wade UD MIller were all hurt in that series dnt make excuses for why u guys got beat:facepalm:

PatsSoxKnicks
01-20-2012, 11:47 PM
I was wondering how long it would take some Knicks fans to jump ship. Remember when I had to defend myself left and right about my claim that there was no way the Knicks would host a playoff series about a month ago?

They have no guards.
They have no depth.
As long as Mike D is their coach, and their 2 best players are Melo/Amare, they have no defense. Getting one defender in Chandler doesn't do crap when he has wings coming down the pipe 200 mph at him.

I really don't know what you guys were expecting. Its the east, relax. They should make the playoffs, and if Baron can give them anything, they will still be a tough 1st round out, especially since depth won't matter in the playoffs with the games so spaced out.

I myself never expected big things out of the Knicks during the regular season either. In fact, I believe I had the 76ers winning the division and the Knicks as the 5 or 6 seed (forgot exactly which seed but my predictions are on the roundtable. I was one of the few on that panel with the balls to pick regular season standings...;)). I did say they'd make it to the ECF which was definitely my homerism. Upon thinking about it further, that's not happening.

Anyways, the one area in which you are wrong is their defense. That has actually been surprisingly good considering the coach and star players. The Knicks are 10th in defensive efficiency this year, which is a massive improvement. The problem is actually on the offensive end.

One of the surprising reasons for their defensive improvement is Melo's defense, which has improved. Per synergy numbers, he's allowing .85 points per possession this year and .72 points per possession on iso's, which ranks 20th in the NBA. So he's done a good job on man to man defense. For comparison's sake, last year with the Knicks, Melo allowed 1.06 points per possession which ranked 457th. His Iso defense was at .89 points per possession (ranked 228th). So as you can see, he's made a considerable improvement on the defensive end and thats one of the reasons the Knicks team has been better defensively this year.

Also, the moaning about Tyson Chandler has been wrong as well as he's definitely helped the Knicks defense. And again, the synergy #'s prove it. Chandler is allowing .62 points per possession, which ranks 19th in the NBA. In addition, he's allowing just .5 points per possession on iso's, which ranks 2nd in the NBA. And on post up's, he's allowing .61 points per possession, which ranks 11th in the NBA. He's been strong defensively and the numbers show it. Again, one of the reasons for the Knicks defensive improvement this year.

As for the Knicks offensive issues, it can be traced to a couple reasons. First, their guys aren't making shots. When you have offensive players like Amare and Melo, attention will be paid to them and its up to the rest of the guys to make open shots. That hasn't been happening. And the synergy #'s point to that: The Knicks are making only 34.9% of their spot up shots this year with a points per possession of .88, which ranks 21st in the NBA. Spot up shots are the shots the Knicks are taking the most. And that is obviously a result of having poor depth and guys like Fields, Douglas, etc. not making any shots.

The most efficient plays for the Knicks this season have been P&R and post ups. However, that only accounts for about 22% of their plays. They iso way to often considering they rank 29th in points per possession on iso's.

Some of the Knicks problems may go away if guys like Fields and Douglas can start hitting more shots. Other problems will linger as long as they don't have a PG. I'm not sure if Baron Davis will be the answer but the Knicks do need him back badly, just to see if he can give them anything. A PG who can feed the ball into Melo so he can post up or run the P&R with Amare would make a big difference for them.

effen5
01-20-2012, 11:47 PM
Just everyone shut the **** up about the Bulls Heat series last year. Both teams improved this year....should be more exciting this year. Now lets get back to how ****** the Knicks are.

justinnum1
01-20-2012, 11:48 PM
Don't get mad at me because your overhyped wack *** team sucks. There's still no excuse of why the knicks aren't good, PG or no PG there's still no excuses why they aren't beating losing teams that's worser than them. Atleast the Bulls were able to snag a win from the cryami heat playing 4 against 5 on offense with injuries against a fully healthy heat at their peak strength that could have had the results the other way around.

:facepalm: Your joking, right?

Our 4th and 5th best players were not even 70%

Haslem totally changed that series in game 2, and he was like 60% healthy...he came back in 4 months from a surgery that takes athletes a year.

MTL_123
01-20-2012, 11:48 PM
This was not a dissapointment at all, this was exactly what the Knicks wanted. They just wanted to collect as many all-stars as they can to compete with the heat in a popularity contest not to win at all while the heat is trying to be like the "Boston Celtics Big 3 want'na Bes".


I remember that too and they thought they were on the Bulls and cryami heat level as a 3rd seed after they were the only team to get swepted in the 1st round of the playoffs and the only team in the playoffs with no wins.

really didnt the bulls try and get Lebron and bosh to form their big 3 :facepalm:

MTL_123
01-20-2012, 11:49 PM
Just everyone shut the **** up about the Bulls Heat series last year. Both teams improved this year....should be more exciting this year. Now lets get back to how ****** the Knicks are.

ok:D:D:D

xxplayerxx23
01-20-2012, 11:49 PM
miller and haslem were no where close to healthy

I meant bulls were pretty much healthy You guys spanked them, I was arguing with him because he said games were close, but close means nothing, 4-1 is not a close series

xxplayerxx23
01-20-2012, 11:51 PM
Just everyone shut the **** up about the Bulls Heat series last year. Both teams improved this year....should be more exciting this year. Now lets get back to how ****** the Knicks are.

Chiago guy started it.

effen5
01-20-2012, 11:54 PM
I meant bulls were pretty much healthy You guys spanked them, I was arguing with him because he said games were close, but close means nothing, 4-1 is not a close series

Both teams were no where near healthy....

Rose had a bad wrist, Boozer had turf toe, etc....

Heat had there share of injuries too. But again lets get back on topic.

Knicks21
01-20-2012, 11:55 PM
I am glad we are loosing, we aren't going to win with this team so it causes some urgency within the front office.

DoMeFavors
01-20-2012, 11:55 PM
Its not the coach its mentality, Knick fans need to stop thinking of excuses. You cant teach a pf how to score the basket from 2 feet away. Or Carmelo to make baskets. The two dont mesh and Amare looks like his career as a top player is done.
I doubt they make the playoffs and starting Iman,Fields,Chandler you aint getting much offense.

NYsFinest
01-20-2012, 11:58 PM
This is why I hate Nets fans and despise their franchise... even their ownership doesnt stfu about "taking over ny" (maybe because hes upset dolan wouldnt sell the knicks to him). most people don't just switch sides after rooting for a team their whole life just because some other team showed up. Get used to it NYC is a Knick city and always will be regardless how much the Knicks struggle and how amazing the Nets are.


Would you become a Knick fan if they get Howard and move to Rutherford, NJ?!?!

Sure they will have a better following in Brooklyn, but most people will stick with the team they grew up following.

Team*Chicago
01-21-2012, 12:00 AM
lol Maybe you should read, Overhyped by who fans on this site ok big deal, Ofcourse there ganna strugle they Have no pg, Talk to me 3 weeks after davis comes back. My team isnt going anywhere but either is yours, You cant beat miami. And :clap: you got 1 game against them no way, What does that do for you?

Overhyped by Knicks fans saying their title contenders after getting their ***** kicked with no win in the playoffs. My team is definitely going somewhere and it's winning the championship but your team isn't since they are waiting for Chris Pual to hit FA and Phil Jackson to come out of retirement. The one win against cryami mean we can beat them and we definitely got what we need to beat them that we didn't have before that's what it does for us.

Why can't I talk to you now? Why do I have to wait for 3 weeks and the season started a month ago? The Bulls are 2-1 without a star PG in Rose meaning there's still no excuse of why the Knicks can't do the same if Carmelo>>>Deng and Amare>Boozer.

jeter 2
01-21-2012, 12:07 AM
The issue with the Knicks is that they lack a point guard. If they can trade for someone like Ramon Sessions, Jamal Tinsley, or another decent point guard, I think you'll see significant improvement in their play.

The Flash
01-21-2012, 12:11 AM
Don't get mad at me because your overhyped wack *** team sucks. There's still no excuse of why the knicks aren't good, PG or no PG there's still no excuses why they aren't beating losing teams that's worser than them. Atleast the Bulls were able to snag a win from the cryami heat playing 4 against 5 on offense with injuries against a fully healthy heat at their peak strength that could have had the results the other way around.

So i guess it still hurts, huh?

The Final Boss
01-21-2012, 12:13 AM
The only people who though the Knocks would play well are the kids on PSD.

Jsoul101
01-21-2012, 12:14 AM
Go watch Money Ball,
Tells you a key to sports franchise.
Buying Melo/Amare/Chandler won't get you wins, alot of management should get fired already.
Melo buys you points not stops on defense, you buy more points in amare...but you forgot to buy steve nash :/ ..you bought Chandler, but you forgot to buy Jason kidd :/ ...If i was the owner, I'd have fired all staff and rebuild management.

Team*Chicago
01-21-2012, 12:19 AM
4-5 wat because u had bogans we had anthony as our starter both of them couldnt score so it was 4-4. And for the health part Wade UD MIller were all hurt in that series dnt make excuses for why u guys got beat:facepalm:

You still got him in your starting line-up and didn't replace him in the offseason like we did with Bogans. Your team is still basically the same with an +Battier that plays the same position as LeBron and Miller leaving you gutted at the SF position with far less minutes to share.


:facepalm: Your joking, right?

Our 4th and 5th best players were not even 70%

Haslem totally changed that series in game 2, and he was like 60% healthy...he came back in 4 months from a surgery that takes athletes a year.

Boozer, Brewer and Noah was hurt intering into the playoffs played like crap and made it that far into the playoffs. Can your key players enter the playoffs with injuries and play like crp and make it deep into the playoffs? No.


really didnt the bulls try and get Lebron and bosh to form their big 3 :facepalm:

No, it would have been more of an Fantastic 4 not no Big 3 want'na be.
Wade admitted that they were trying to mimic the Celtics. What's the matter you don't follow your own team carefully or are you just a new bandwagon fan of that team.




:rolleyes: Stupid piss *** heat fans.

CTCUBBIES
01-21-2012, 12:19 AM
The Knicks overpaid for Amare and Chandler. Both are very good players but are earning one slot above their overall production. In turn this means the Knicks have to fillout their roster like Miami but their "Big 3" are nowhere near as good or complete as Miami's big 3. The Knicks had so much flexibility and they had to waste it as quickly as possible to get big name guys in there - never understood it.

Pierzynski4Prez
01-21-2012, 12:24 AM
It's still very, very early. They will make the playoffs, and say they draw Philly in the 1st round (3-6 matchup, maybe even 2-7) who knows they could see the 2nd round. But that will be this teams peak. While other players are going to improve over the next number of years, Amare is going to decline most likely and until they rid themselves of Mike D they will never be contenders.

Should have just held out for Melo in free agency. Oh well.

MTL_123
01-21-2012, 12:25 AM
You still got him in your starting line-up and didn't replace him in the offseason like we did with Bogans. Your team is still basically the same with an +Battier that plays the same position as LeBron and Miller leaving you gutted at the SF position with far less minutes to share.



Boozer, Brewer and Noah was hurt intering into the playoffs played like crap and made it that far into the playoffs. Can your key players enter the playoffs with injuries and play like crp and make it deep into the playoffs? No.



No, it would have been more of an Fantastic 4 not no Big 3 want'na be.
Wade admitted that they were trying to mimic the Celtics. What's the matter you don't follow your own team carefully or are you just a new bandwagon fan of that team.



:rolleyes: Stupid piss *** heat fans.

sorry i have a life i dont follow every word a heats player says. So lets see if your a real bulls fan wat is derrick rose say last year dec14 after their game if you dnt respone it tells me that your a banwagon fan. LIke your logic points out if you dnt no every word a player says your not a real fan:facepalm:

Team*Chicago
01-21-2012, 12:25 AM
So i guess it still hurts, huh?

I'm not a crybaby like the cryami heat fan because when Bulls lose it's time for revenge but when the heat lose it's time to cry. If I was an piss *** heat fan then yes it would hurt but as a Bulls fan it's hatred, anger and revenge.

:mad:= As a Bulls fan after a lose

:cry: = As a heat fan after a lose

Pierzynski4Prez
01-21-2012, 12:28 AM
The Knicks overpaid for Amare and Chandler. Both are very good players but are earning one slot above their overall production. In turn this means the Knicks have to fillout their roster like Miami but their "Big 3" are nowhere near as good or complete as Miami's big 3. The Knicks had so much flexibility and they had to waste it as quickly as possible to get big name guys in there - never understood it.

Big time. And were in such a hurry to do it too.

Team*Chicago
01-21-2012, 12:30 AM
sorry i have a life i dont follow every word a heats player says. So lets see if your a real bulls fan wat is derrick rose say last year dec14 after their game if you dnt respone it tells me that your a banwagon fan. LIke your logic points out if you dnt no every word a player says your not a real fan:facepalm:

It was on ESPN and they showed it twice him saying that meaning it was national not local, just like when the heat cried like some wussies and the coach putted them on blast about players crying in the locker room.

Knicks21
01-21-2012, 12:31 AM
If anybody thinks this is D'antonis fault they're out of their mind. He has been given a team that does not work, and his system, which the knicks front office knows about, runs through a point guard. I can't blame him, the team he has been given does not co-operate with what he does best. Players need to take some responsibility.

MTL_123
01-21-2012, 12:31 AM
It was on ESPN and they showed it twice him saying that meaning it was national not local, just like when the heat cried like some wussies and the coach putted them on blast about players crying in the locker room.

hey y arent u responding to wat i asked i guess your a banwagon fan right with your reasoning :facepalm:

Tmath
01-21-2012, 12:35 AM
I'm not a crybaby like the cryami heat fan because when Bulls lose it's time for revenge but when the heat lose it's time to cry. If I was an piss *** heat fan then yes it would hurt but as a Bulls fan it's hatred, anger and revenge.

:mad:= As a Bulls fan after a lose

:cry: = As a heat fan after a lose

This thread is about the Knicks Heat & Bulls fans :facepalm:

Pierzynski4Prez
01-21-2012, 12:35 AM
Oops, thought I was posting in a Knicks thread, not a *****fest between heat and bulls fans

THE MTL
01-21-2012, 12:38 AM
I am proud to say that this knicks team is over. WE won't make the playoffs. Isiah 2.0. Another struggling point for the franchise with so much optimism. :facepalm: There needs to be changes to this franchise.

Knicks will make the playoffs either 7th or 8th because the East sucks and the last spots are filled by crappy teams.

Pierzynski4Prez
01-21-2012, 12:41 AM
I gotta say if the Knicks and Celtics both make the playoffs as the 7th and 8th seed, with Chi and Miami getting the 1 and 2 seed, that would be some nice *** 1st round matchups. Probably what most considered to be the top 4 seeds coming into the season.

The Flash
01-21-2012, 12:42 AM
I'm not a crybaby like the cryami heat fan because when Bulls lose it's time for revenge but when the heat lose it's time to cry. If I was an piss *** heat fan then yes it would hurt but as a Bulls fan it's hatred, anger and revenge.

:mad:= As a Bulls fan after a lose

:cry: = As a heat fan after a lose

yet you're the only one highly emotional here.

MTL_123
01-21-2012, 12:42 AM
if the knicks dnt make somehow dont make the playoffs they should trade Amare or Melo one of them has to go because it looks like it isnt gonna work out together.

jp611
01-21-2012, 12:44 AM
Knicks won't make the playoffs this season

Team*Chicago
01-21-2012, 12:46 AM
hey y arent u responding to wat i asked i guess your a banwagon fan right with your reasoning :facepalm:

I live in Chicago I don't have to be a bandwagon to a Chicago team. They aren't no media hore team that recuit fake fans like your team.

The Flash
01-21-2012, 12:48 AM
I live in Chicago I don't have to be a bandwagon to a Chicago team. They aren't no media hore team that recuit fake fans like your team.

:facepalm:

SportsAndrew25
01-21-2012, 12:48 AM
Funny that Nets fans are here attacking the Knicks. Isn't this the same team that traded away Dr. J??? The last person that should be critiquing the Knicks is someone who is a fan of a franchise that has never won a championship, traded away one of the best players in basketball history, and has been one of the biggest jokes in the National Basketball Association for decades. Say what you will about the New York Knicks. At least we have been contenders for most of our 65 year existence.

Team*Chicago
01-21-2012, 12:49 AM
yet you're the only one highly emotional here.

Atleast I don't cry like you and the rest of your entire fan base after a lose.

Metsboi69
01-21-2012, 12:53 AM
Clippers play in the Staples Center in LA, Nets are going to play in the hood in Brooklyn.. don't need Net fan telling me about disfunctional franchises. Hold on to Deron first before "taking over NY"

The hood in Brooklyn haha have you been to where the stadium is being built? I was there two days ago, and I certainly wouldn't call it a hood.

DoMeFavors
01-21-2012, 12:54 AM
Funny that Nets fans are here attacking the Knicks. Isn't this the same team that traded away Dr. J??? The last person that should be critiquing the Knicks is someone who is a fan of a franchise that has never won a championship, traded away one of the best players in basketball history, and has been one of the biggest jokes in the National Basketball Association for decades. Say what you will about the New York Knicks. At least we have been contenders for most of our 65 year existence.

Are you talking about the Nets or the Knicks? and who cares about the past its about the present. Knicks havent won a playoff game in 11 years. That means someone who is 11 years old wasnt alive last time Knicks won a playoff game. Thats sad.

jmoney85
01-21-2012, 12:56 AM
Funny that Nets fans are here attacking the Knicks. Isn't this the same team that traded away Dr. J??? The last person that should be critiquing the Knicks is someone who is a fan of a franchise that has never won a championship, traded away one of the best players in basketball history, and has been one of the biggest jokes in the National Basketball Association for decades. Say what you will about the New York Knicks. At least we have been contenders for most of our 65 year existence.

compare our playoff appearances from the last 10 years and we destroy you... not to mention that we went to back to back finals

godolphins
01-21-2012, 01:00 AM
:laugh2: Give it time, it's still a work in progress. I expect them to be one of the top four teams in the east.

effen5
01-21-2012, 01:01 AM
compare our playoff appearances from the last 10 years and we destroy you... not to mention that we went to back to back finals

omg so true

:laugh:

jmoney85
01-21-2012, 01:04 AM
The Denver Nuggets, including the playoffs, are 30-16 since the Carmelo trade. The Knicks, including playoffs, are 20-26.

DoMeFavors
01-21-2012, 01:06 AM
Denver since Melo trade 30 and 16
Knicks since Melo trade 20 and 26

Forrealz
01-21-2012, 01:08 AM
I thought shumpert was the best player in the nba?

Sactown
01-21-2012, 01:12 AM
I thought shumpert was the best player in the nba?

That's when they win :rolleyes:

jmoney85
01-21-2012, 01:17 AM
and we all thought rondo was a bad shooter.... hello rubio

blahblahyoutoo
01-21-2012, 01:19 AM
Thats no the point, the point is look at the team they are losing to with an easy schedule....that is alarming.

yup, don't they have the easiest SoS in the league right now?
you're telling me 2 top 10 players and a championship caliber defensive C can't produce a better record against some of the worst teams in the league?

i've said it before, the melo signing killed them.
dolan traded team ball for stardom.

nysportsfan02
01-21-2012, 01:21 AM
You know what's funny?

Denver didn't even need to trade Melo for assets. Simply letting him walk in FA would have gotten them better if you think about it.

Who's the only one really making an impact on them now? Gallo.

Chill_Will_24
01-21-2012, 01:22 AM
Because NYC is Knick country, LA is still Laker country and always will be. Clippers are getting some hype, but i cant ever see them taking the lakers place. Nets would be just as exciting with dwight.... but still be second fiddle popularity wise

And i don't understand how you don't realize that location within NYC still matters to popularity... That's like saying the GS Warriors play in California and that the Lakers should be worried if the Warriors start loading up on stars.

I also think you are realllyy overrating Brooklyn.

LOL thats not the claim you made. You brought up some ill imformed and misguided point about the Nets moving to the middle of the hood. Im just trying to figure out what your trying to prove with that. Are you implying that Brooklyn is too "hood" to be a popular location?

As far as location Brooklyn is one of the most globally recognizable names in the entire U.S. Its the most populated borough in NY. The fans there havent had a team since the Dodgers. Those fans are passionate about their sports. You really think they wont support a winning Nets team?.. Especially is the Knicks are playing like THIS?

You think the celebs wont go to Brooklyn and watch them?

Nets with Dwight would gain more popularity than the Clippers in LA. Will they become the #1 team? Probably not for decades and they would have to win titles. However lets not compare the Knicks and Lakers because there is no comparison.

Im not claiming anything regarding the Nets as fact. Im actually not that optimistic about their future and i dont think the Nets will get Dwight.

I just find it amusing that Knicks fans get so offended at the thought that the Nets with Dwight would be a big deal in NY.

NYsFinest
01-21-2012, 01:22 AM
The Denver Nuggets, including the playoffs, are 30-16 since the Carmelo trade. The Knicks, including playoffs, are 20-26.

Nets Record After DWill trade (didn't make playoffs) - 11-29

Jazz Record This Season - 9-5

:speechless::speechless: :speechless: :speechless: :speechless: :speechless: :speechless: :speechless:

Nets record since trading Jason Kidd: 108-235 since 2007

Nets franchise record: 1453 - 1816

STFU Nets fans... worry about your own team and keeping Deron.

NYsFinest
01-21-2012, 01:24 AM
LOL thats not the claim you made. You brought up some ill imformed and misguided point about the Nets moving to the middle of the hood. Im just trying to figure out what your trying to prove with that. Are you implying that Brooklyn is too "hood" to be a popular location?
As far as location Brooklyn is one of the most globally recognizable names in the entire U.S. Its the most populated borough in NY. The fans there havent had a team since the Dodgers. Those fans are passionate about their sports. You really think they wont support a winning Nets team?.. Especially is the Knicks are playing like THIS?

You think the celebs wont go to Brooklyn and watch them?

Nets with Dwight would gain more popularity than the Clippers in LA. Will they become the #1 team? Probably not for decades and they would have to win titles. However lets not compare the Knicks and Lakers because there is no comparison.

Im not claiming anything regarding the Nets as fact. Im actually not that optimistic about their future and i dont think the Nets will get Dwight.

I just find it amusing that Knicks fans get so offended at the thought that the Nets with Dwight would be a big deal in NY.

You clearly misunderstood me, the point was the crummy neighborhood in bk has nowhere near the glamour you think it has and will never have the reputation of MSG... just because your team is moving to NY doesn't mean its going to become the "hot ticket" in town. And no Atlantic yards wont be as star studded as you think, a lot of Nets fans have false hope about this move.

What I find funny is that Nets fans and organization keeps trying to take shots at the Knicks and pretend like they are the up and coming NY team.... when in 40 years in the NBA the lone brightspot this franchise has had was 4-5 with Jason Kidd where they were "somewhat" competitive. Worry about your own ****** franchise.

utl768
01-21-2012, 01:24 AM
i dont think there overrated

i didnt think they were very good to begin with

melo is a good player but not a winner, he doesnt make people around him better like other great players do

jmoney85
01-21-2012, 01:26 AM
why dont you post the jazz record since the dwill trade instead of the record from this season?

and what does our trade have anything to do with your trade?

we didnt have championship expectations this season

Rndy
01-21-2012, 01:27 AM
Maybe to Knicks fans. But I saw it coming all the way. You cant win in this league with out playing defense. They don't compliment each other and they don't have the defense to make up for it.

EasternStar
01-21-2012, 01:27 AM
Agree with U RC3! Don't worry Knicks, us Nets fans are depress as all of you New Yorkers down in Manhattan.:laugh:

jmoney85
01-21-2012, 01:27 AM
You clearly misunderstood me, the point was the crummy neighborhood in bk has nowhere near the glamour you think it has and will never have the reputation of MSG... just because your team is moving to NY doesn't mean its going to become the "hot ticket" in town.

What I find funny is that Nets fans and organization keeps trying to take shots at the Knicks and pretend like they are the up and coming NY team.... when in 40 years in the NBA the lone brightspot this franchise has had was 4-5 with Jason Kidd where they were "somewhat" competitive. Worry about your own ****** franchise.

back to back finals is more than "somewhat" competitive

blahblahyoutoo
01-21-2012, 01:29 AM
Anyways, the one area in which you are wrong is their defense. That has actually been surprisingly good considering the coach and star players. The Knicks are 10th in defensive efficiency this year, which is a massive improvement. The problem is actually on the offensive end.

One of the surprising reasons for their defensive improvement is Melo's defense, which has improved. Per synergy numbers, he's allowing .85 points per possession this year and .72 points per possession on iso's, which ranks 20th in the NBA. So he's done a good job on man to man defense. For comparison's sake, last year with the Knicks, Melo allowed 1.06 points per possession which ranked 457th. His Iso defense was at .89 points per possession (ranked 228th). So as you can see, he's made a considerable improvement on the defensive end and thats one of the reasons the Knicks team has been better defensively this year.

Also, the moaning about Tyson Chandler has been wrong as well as he's definitely helped the Knicks defense. And again, the synergy #'s prove it. Chandler is allowing .62 points per possession, which ranks 19th in the NBA. In addition, he's allowing just .5 points per possession on iso's, which ranks 2nd in the NBA. And on post up's, he's allowing .61 points per possession, which ranks 11th in the NBA. He's been strong defensively and the numbers show it. Again, one of the reasons for the Knicks defensive improvement this year.

As for the Knicks offensive issues, it can be traced to a couple reasons. First, their guys aren't making shots. When you have offensive players like Amare and Melo, attention will be paid to them and its up to the rest of the guys to make open shots. That hasn't been happening. And the synergy #'s point to that: The Knicks are making only 34.9% of their spot up shots this year with a points per possession of .88, which ranks 21st in the NBA. Spot up shots are the shots the Knicks are taking the most. And that is obviously a result of having poor depth and guys like Fields, Douglas, etc. not making any shots.

The most efficient plays for the Knicks this season have been P&R and post ups. However, that only accounts for about 22% of their plays. They iso way to often considering they rank 29th in points per possession on iso's.

Some of the Knicks problems may go away if guys like Fields and Douglas can start hitting more shots. Other problems will linger as long as they don't have a PG. I'm not sure if Baron Davis will be the answer but the Knicks do need him back badly, just to see if he can give them anything. A PG who can feed the ball into Melo so he can post up or run the P&R with Amare would make a big difference for them.

lets wait for them to actually play some good teams before proclaiming their defense has improved.

ByShine
01-21-2012, 01:30 AM
most stupid move was trading wilson chandler and billups
2 solid defenders just thrown away for trash
or felton, shudda kept either felton or billups

Chill_Will_24
01-21-2012, 01:32 AM
This is why I hate Nets fans and despise their franchise... even their ownership doesnt stfu about "taking over ny" (maybe because hes upset dolan wouldnt sell the knicks to him). most people don't just switch sides after rooting for a team their whole life just because some other team showed up. Get used to it NYC is a Knick city and always will be regardless how much the Knicks struggle and how amazing the Nets are.


Would you become a Knick fan if they get Howard and move to Rutherford, NJ?!?!

Sure they will have a better following in Brooklyn, but most people will stick with the team they grew up following.

Ok.. what about the next generation? and the generation after that? You may be a loyal fan which is commendable but 8 million 7y olds watching TV might say "euuu those Knicks suck! The Nets are winning!"

History always starts somewhere and the Nets history may start in Brooklyn.

You think people just sprout in the earth with Knicks hats on? If the Knicks continue being a losing team new fans will begin to gravitate towards the winning team and you would be left with the old heads at the Knicks games.

Thats just a theory BTW

I just dont think the Knicks have done anything in their history to warrant decades of devotion from their fans when all they do is lose.

Instead of comparing it to the Yankees/Mets.. how about the White Sox/Cubs? Its a far more fair comparison.

jmoney85
01-21-2012, 01:32 AM
they are 22nd in opponent shooting percentage... how is that an improved defense? lol

NYsFinest
01-21-2012, 01:35 AM
back to back finals is more than "somewhat" competitive

East was absolutely horrific those years and Nets got abused in the finals both times... that is the highlight of 40 years in the NBA. Just because its sort of recent doesn't mean the Nets have been a good franchise by any means.

jmoney85
01-21-2012, 01:36 AM
the knicks have been terrible for decades lol... what makes them more successful?

Chill_Will_24
01-21-2012, 01:36 AM
Funny that Nets fans are here attacking the Knicks. Isn't this the same team that traded away Dr. J??? The last person that should be critiquing the Knicks is someone who is a fan of a franchise that has never won a championship, traded away one of the best players in basketball history, and has been one of the biggest jokes in the National Basketball Association for decades. Say what you will about the New York Knicks. At least we have been contenders for most of our 65 year existence.

I dont see a single Nets fan attacking a Knicks fan. If you are referring to me do you mean im attacking the Knicks by saying the Nets could gain steam on them in Brooklyn someday?

Forrealz
01-21-2012, 01:36 AM
they are 22nd in opponent shooting percentage... how is that an improved defense? lol. Aren't they usually 30th?

Knicks21
01-21-2012, 01:37 AM
Ok.. what about the next generation? and the generation after that? You may be a loyal fan which is commendable but 8 million 7y olds watching TV might say "euuu those Knicks suck! The Nets are winning!"

History always starts somewhere and the Nets history may start in Brooklyn.

You think people just sprout in the earth with Knicks hats on? If the Knicks continue being a losing team new fans will begin to gravitate towards the winning team and you would be left with the old heads at the Knicks games.

Thats just a theory BTW

I just dont think the Knicks have done anything in their history to warrant decades of devotion from their fans when all they do is lose.

Instead of comparing it to the Yankees/Mets.. how about the White Sox/Cubs? Its a far more fair comparison.

Knicks were elite in the 90's.

NYsFinest
01-21-2012, 01:38 AM
Ok.. what about the next generation? and the generation after that? You may be a loyal fan which is commendable but 8 million 7y olds watching TV might say "euuu those Knicks suck! The Nets are winning!"

History always starts somewhere and the Nets history may start in Brooklyn.

You think people just sprout in the earth with Knicks hats on? If the Knicks continue being a losing team new fans will begin to gravitate towards the winning team and you would be left with the old heads at the Knicks games.

Thats just a theory BTW

I just dont think the Knicks have done anything in their history to warrant decades of devotion from their fans when all they do is lose.


Instead of comparing it to the Yankees/Mets.. how about the White Sox/Cubs? Its a far more fair comparison.

You are talking about Deron/Dwight thats clearly in the very near future.... if we are talking 25 years down the line, sure maybe but noone knows what these teams will look like then.

And lets not jump the gun and act like the Knicks wont be a playoff team this season based on a rough start, they will wont be winning 12 games a year when the Nets get to Brooklyn.

blahblahyoutoo
01-21-2012, 01:38 AM
Nets Record After DWill trade (didn't make playoffs) - 11-29

Jazz Record This Season - 9-5

:speechless::speechless: :speechless: :speechless: :speechless: :speechless: :speechless: :speechless:

Nets record since trading Jason Kidd: 108-235 since 2007

Nets franchise record: 1453 - 1816

STFU Nets fans... worry about your own team and keeping Deron.

this thread was created about the knicks by a knicks fan. i know it's hard but try to stay on topic and stop making things personal.

Knicks21
01-21-2012, 01:39 AM
the knicks have been terrible for decades lol... what makes them more successful?

Were you born yesterday?

NYsFinest
01-21-2012, 01:41 AM
the knicks have been terrible for decades lol... what makes them more successful?

Just saying worry about your own team..

and yes history as a whole favors the Knicks by a longshot... the 70-80-90s the Knicks dominated the Nets... just because people have a short memory and remember the 3-4 years the Nets were better they think the Nets have been the better franchise. Knicks may not have an advantage over the Nets the way the Lakers do over the Clippers... but its still significant.

jmoney85
01-21-2012, 01:41 AM
East was absolutely horrific those years and Nets got abused in the finals both times... that is the highlight of 40 years in the NBA. Just because its sort of recent doesn't mean the Nets have been a good franchise by any means.

and you say the east was horrific


THE KNICKS COULDNT EVEN MAKE THE PLAYOFFS!!!!

Knicks21
01-21-2012, 01:44 AM
and you say the east was horrific


THE KNICKS COULDNT EVEN MAKE THE PLAYOFFS!!!!

Yeah, it was that bad...

Chill_Will_24
01-21-2012, 01:44 AM
You clearly misunderstood me, the point was the crummy neighborhood in bk has nowhere near the glamour you think it has and will never have the reputation of MSG... just because your team is moving to NY doesn't mean its going to become the "hot ticket" in town. And no Atlantic yards wont be as star studded as you think, a lot of Nets fans have false hope about this move.

What I find funny is that Nets fans and organization keeps trying to take shots at the Knicks and pretend like they are the up and coming NY team.... when in 40 years in the NBA the lone brightspot this franchise has had was 4-5 with Jason Kidd where they were "somewhat" competitive. Worry about your own ****** franchise.

Why are you so salty Knicks fan? Are you a grown adult? Reply to me like one.

So are you saying celebs wont travel the extra few miles to watch THE winning team in NY (hypothetically) just cuz Brooklyn is not as glamourous as Manhattan?

Jay-Z has been heavily involved in promoting the Brooklyn move and i very highly doubt people wont support his squad, especially if the Knicks are puttinmg this airball/vomit hybrid they call basketball on their MSG floor.

I would hope nobidy is foolish enough to believe the Nets would take the mantle from the Knicks in NY even with Dwight. That would take years of winning...

But yes.. they WOULD be the hot ticket in town with Dwight. Nets fans just better pray it happens. They could very well be leading their team into Brooklyn with MarShon Brooks and Harrison Barnes without Deron instead.

NYsFinest
01-21-2012, 01:44 AM
and you say the east was horrific


THE KNICKS COULDNT EVEN MAKE THE PLAYOFFS!!!!

Because the Knicks sucked.... just wouldn't brag about the best years of my franchise history being winning 49 games in the weakest conference the NBA has ever seen.

metsfanssince05
01-21-2012, 01:45 AM
Sad. Just when we think we were just coming along.. Hey, at least we have our draft pick in the deepest draft of all...... Oh, Wait..............................

llemon
01-21-2012, 01:45 AM
East was absolutely horrific those years and Nets got abused in the finals both times... that is the highlight of 40 years in the NBA. Just because its sort of recent doesn't mean the Nets have been a good franchise by any means.

Hpw many times Knicks made the Finals since Nets entered the NBA? In those years, Knicks win any Titles?

Knicks win a playoff game in the last 10 years?

Knicks get swept in the 1st rd of the playoffs by the Nets in the last 10 years?

jmoney85
01-21-2012, 01:46 AM
llemon coming down with the hammer

jmoney85
01-21-2012, 01:47 AM
Im sorry but if knick fans are gonna come at the nets in this thread for no reason you better come correct

Robbw241
01-21-2012, 01:47 AM
Still waiting on a single Knicks or nets thread that doesn't become a NY flame war for no reason. I mean how many times can this possibly keep happening. Also lol at page 3 heat vs vs chi how did that get in here?

Knicks21
01-21-2012, 01:50 AM
Im sorry but if knick fans are gonna come at the nets in this thread for no reason you better come correct

Why are you sorry?

Chill_Will_24
01-21-2012, 01:52 AM
Knicks were elite in the 90's.

We dont live in that era anymore. The last time the Knicks won a single post season game, the World Trade Center was still a fixture in the NY skyline and Dwight Howard was still in grade school.

Im just saying that history changes. Especially when the history you speak of is not a winning one.

Kids grow up up cheering winning teams. Its a fact. The Knicks have been losing for the last decade and are losing now and for the forseeable future unless they trade Melo or Amare or fire Mike D.

jmoney85
01-21-2012, 01:52 AM
Why are you sorry?

apologizing for posting information that would lead to knicks fan(s) jumping off the gwb

Knicks21
01-21-2012, 01:53 AM
We dont live in that era anymore. The last time the Knicks won a single post season game, the World Trade Center was still a fixture in the NY skyline and Dwight Howard was still in grade school.

Im just saying that history changes. Especially when the history you speak of is not a winning one.

Kids grow up up cheering winning teams. Its a fact. The Knicks have been losing for the last decade and are losing now and for the forseeable future unless they trade Melo or Amare or fire Mike D.

We also don't live in 00's.

Chill_Will_24
01-21-2012, 01:54 AM
You are talking about Deron/Dwight thats clearly in the very near future.... if we are talking 25 years down the line, sure maybe but noone knows what these teams will look like then.

And lets not jump the gun and act like the Knicks wont be a playoff team this season based on a rough start, they will wont be winning 12 games a year when the Nets get to Brooklyn.

Ok? and?

I return to mu original statement that you took exception to: The Nets with Deron and Dwight would gain Clipper-like hype in Brooklyn if not more since the Knicks<<<<<<<Lakers

jmoney85
01-21-2012, 01:55 AM
We also don't live in 00's.

ok we live in 2012 and the knicks are 6-9 after having championship aspirations

Knicks21
01-21-2012, 01:56 AM
ok we live in 2012 and the knicks are 6-9 after having championship aspirations

Yeah, and you are worse, for now. So stop mentioning the Jason Kidd era.

jmoney85
01-21-2012, 01:59 AM
Yeah, and you are worse, for now. So stop mentioning the Jason Kidd era.

we are 2 games behind with our 20 ppg center who hasnt played a game yet....

we also knew we would be terrible this season

drink coke try again

jmoney85
01-21-2012, 02:00 AM
we also played a much tougher schedule

Chill_Will_24
01-21-2012, 02:02 AM
We also don't live in 00's.

What have i claimed about the 00's?

Unlike my fellow Nets fans on this thread, i dont hold dearly to the Kidd years that produced nothing for us except a showcase of how dominant Shaq was. Kidd didnt even want to be here. He just needed a fresh start, was unwilligly traded here, and decided to stay cuz he felt we could win.

I am speaking strictly hypothetically of right NOW. The Knicks are horrible, playing the easiest schedule in the NBA, and strapped with the untradeable contracts of Chandler and Amare. Meanwhile for better or worse, Dwight wants the Nets more than any other team.

IF the Nets get Dwight.. i believe they will rise in popularity and gain steam on the Knicks thru the years.

metsfanssince05
01-21-2012, 02:05 AM
And the thing that is making it funny is were playing **** teams....

Chill_Will_24
01-21-2012, 02:06 AM
we are 2 games behind with our 20 ppg center who hasnt played a game yet....

we also knew we would be terrible this season

drink coke try again

Why do you bait Knicks fans? Your in every Nets, Knicks, or Dwight related thread getting into it with them and i dont understand what you gain out of it. What is your point? Do you even have one?

I had a point when i got into this debate with NYFinest and it got derailed by baiting and ****.

Knicks21
01-21-2012, 02:06 AM
What have i claimed about the 00's?

Unlike my fellow Nets fans on this thread, i dont hold dearly to the Kidd years that produced nothing for us except a showcase of how dominant Shaq was. Kidd didnt even want to be here. He just needed a fresh start, was unwilligly traded here, and decided to stay cuz he felt we could win.

I am speaking strictly hypothetically of right NOW. The Knicks are horrible, playing the easiest schedule in the NBA, and strapped with the untradeable contracts of Chandler and Amare. Meanwhile for better or worse, Dwight wants the Nets more than any other team.

IF the Nets get Dwight.. i believe they will rise in popularity and gain steam on the Knicks thru the years.
I kindly disagree. They may be good, heck a 20 win better team, but I do not think fans will be so quickly to convert.

PatsSoxKnicks
01-21-2012, 02:10 AM
lets wait for them to actually play some good teams before proclaiming their defense has improved.

First, considering how bad their defense has been the last 2 years, anything resembling good defense is an improvement for the Knicks. Simply put, there's no denying the fact that they are 10th in defensive efficiency. Small sample size or not, you would be hard pressed to find a 10 game span at any point last year where the Knicks were top 10 in defensive efficiency.

Second, the Knicks have played the Thunder, 76ers and Magic, who are 1st, 3rd and 6th respectively in team ORtg. They've also played the Warriors who are 12th in team ORtg. Granted, they've also played some awful teams too. However, they have been tested by some good offenses.

Specifically, in those 3 games, they were poor against the Thunder. However, Melo was missing in that game and as I pointed out, he's actually been a good defender this year, especially on Iso's. Considering Durant went off for 28 points in that game, I would assume that Melo's iso defense would've been helpful. In the 76ers game, they held the 76ers to a 85.0 team ORtg, which is well below the 76ers team ORtg on the season. And in the Magic game, they weren't very good either. However, a 3 game sample size is not nearly enough, nor is a 14 game sample size.

But as I said earlier, considering how BAD the Knicks were on defense the last couple years, any type of improvement (being top 10 in defensive efficiency) is a sign of actual improvement as I'm sure you' be hard pressed to find any 15 game sample last year where they played top 10 caliber defense.

ironman9518
01-21-2012, 02:10 AM
If the Knicks don't make the playoffs I will be shocked, It is the East they could go Melo and Amare only on the court the rest of the year and still squeeze in

jmoney85
01-21-2012, 02:10 AM
Why do you bait Knicks fans? Your in every Nets, Knicks, or Dwight related thread getting into it with them and i dont understand what you gain out of it. What is your point? Do you even have one?

I had a point when i got into this debate with NYFinest and it got derailed by baiting and ****.

unlike yourself Im not going to sit here and watch knick fans trash my team over and over again with mumbo jumbo that is untrue

I unlike you wont sit here typing short stories to people I dont know on the internet hoping to get a point across for some odd reason

DaBear
01-21-2012, 02:12 AM
They need to fire D'Antoni ASAP

BigBongTheory
01-21-2012, 02:15 AM
they really are...

Knicks21
01-21-2012, 02:15 AM
They need to fire D'Antoni ASAP

D'antoni is not the problem, he's has been given nothing useful to work with. The Players performance is reflecting on him, and it shouldn't be.

jmoney85
01-21-2012, 02:16 AM
chill will is probably typing up war and peace

Chill_Will_24
01-21-2012, 02:19 AM
unlike yourself Im not going to sit here and watch knick fans trash my team over and over again with mumbo jumbo that is untrue

I unlike you wont sit here typing short stories to people I dont know on the internet hoping to get a point across for some odd reason

Short stories? :laugh2: To literate people thats called a paragraph.

As far as that trashing... try to develop some thick skin kid. The Nets are losers. It comes with the territory and besides... they havent said anything that is untrue.

The bright spot of our NBA years WAS the Kidd era.

We DID win 12 games

We ARE second fiddle in NY right now

Deron COULD leave

What did they say that you disagree with?

ironman9518
01-21-2012, 02:19 AM
^ He mad

Chill_Will_24
01-21-2012, 02:21 AM
chill will is probably typing up war and peace

:sigh: and your thinking up good ways to get owned by Knicks fans in a forum... just like in the Dwight thread... and the Deron thread... and the MaRshon thread.. and every Knicks related thread... your a glutton for punishment.

jmoney85
01-21-2012, 02:21 AM
Short stories? :laugh2: To literate people thats called a paragraph.

As far as that trashing... try to develop some thick skin kid. The Nets are losers. It comes with the territory and besides... they havent said anything that is untrue.

The bright spot of our NBA years WAS the Kidd era.

We DID win 12 games

We ARE second fiddle in NY right now

Deron COULD leave

What did they say that you disagree with?


What have i claimed about the 00's?

Unlike my fellow Nets fans on this thread, i dont hold dearly to the Kidd years that produced nothing for us except a showcase of how dominant Shaq was. Kidd didnt even want to be here. He just needed a fresh start, was unwilligly traded here, and decided to stay cuz he felt we could win.

I am speaking strictly hypothetically of right NOW. The Knicks are horrible, playing the easiest schedule in the NBA, and strapped with the untradeable contracts of Chandler and Amare. Meanwhile for better or worse, Dwight wants the Nets more than any other team.

IF the Nets get Dwight.. i believe they will rise in popularity and gain steam on the Knicks thru the years.


you must not be literate

thats 2+ paragraphs and thats only 1 post

Chill_Will_24
01-21-2012, 02:23 AM
^ He mad

Who am i mad at? Im am honestly and wholeheartedly entertained both by the ridiculous statements of certain Knicks fans and the "short bus" attempts at baiting from my fellow Nets fan.

ironman9518
01-21-2012, 02:25 AM
^I meant the other guy lol

DoMeFavors
01-21-2012, 02:26 AM
YOu guys are a little to concerned with fan support rather than the product on the floor.

HarlemWorld4eva
01-21-2012, 02:26 AM
they hurt my eyes

I agree. :facepalm:

Chill_Will_24
01-21-2012, 02:28 AM
you must not be literate

thats 2+ paragraphs and thats only 1 post

So you have an issue with reading big words and structured sentences?

Do you prefer this:

ThE NeTz R GoN wiN ThE TiTLE witH SupRMan AnD IMMa gIVe DoMeFavors a HiGh 5 cuz we BFFF and KnicKz fAnz sUcKz cuZ DwiGht wAntZ 2 playZ 4 Jay-Z son!!!!

jmoney85
01-21-2012, 02:30 AM
So you have an issue with reading big words and structured sentences?

Do you prefer this:

ThE NeTz R GoN wiN ThE TiTLE witH SupRMan AnD IMMa gIVe DoMeFavors a HiGh 5 cuz we BFFF and KnicKz fAnz sUcKz cuZ DwiGht wAntZ 2 playZ 4 Jay-Z son!!!!

no not at all

but you're wasting your time typing it

2-ONE-5
01-21-2012, 02:31 AM
wait, were the Knicks suppose to be good? hahaha my Sixers continue to prove that having "superstars" dont mean a thing. NY fans enjoy watching Philly run away with the division

Forrealz
01-21-2012, 02:49 AM
you must not be literate

thats 2+ paragraphs and thats only 1 post

So you have an issue with reading big words and structured sentences?

Do you prefer this:

ThE NeTz R GoN wiN ThE TiTLE witH SupRMan AnD IMMa gIVe DoMeFavors a HiGh 5 cuz we BFFF and KnicKz fAnz sUcKz cuZ DwiGht wAntZ 2 playZ 4 Jay-Z son!!!!. Post of the year nominee

meloman1592
01-21-2012, 02:59 AM
wait, were the Knicks suppose to be good? hahaha my Sixers continue to prove that having "superstars" dont mean a thing. NY fans enjoy watching Philly run away with the division

The sixers will not contend for a title without a superstar..they're 1st round and done

NYKnicksAllDay
01-21-2012, 03:03 AM
The sixers will not contend for a title without a superstar..they're 1st round and done

1st round and done?? Maybe if they had to play the Bulls or Heat in the first round, but that's not gonna happen. I'd take them over any other team in the East besides those 2.

meloman1592
01-21-2012, 03:09 AM
1st round and done?? Maybe if they had to play the Bulls or Heat in the first round, but that's not gonna happen. I'd take them over any other team in the East besides those 2.

I honestly don't think they would beat New York, Boston, Orlando or Indiana. As ****** as boston and new york look, there's something about philly that makes me not believe in them. I'm not a hater, I think they're headed in the right direction, they just don't strike me as a threat. Just my opinion. Don't cry sixer fans..it's not like i work for espn and I make money for my opinions

NYKnicksAllDay
01-21-2012, 03:12 AM
I honestly don't think they would beat New York, Boston, Orlando or Indiana. As ****** as boston and new york look, there's something about philly that makes me not believe in them. I'm not a hater, I think they're headed in the right direction, they just don't strike me as a threat. Just my opinion. Don't cry sixer fans..it's not like i work for espn and I make money for my opinions

Even the homer in me won't let me pick the Knicks over them. Yeah we beat them, but it was their third game in 3 nights. And at this point we look like a steamy pile of ****.

Slimsim
01-21-2012, 03:22 AM
Knicks will be fine. I'm not worry unless if one of the 2 stars suffer some sorta career ending injury. We will add pieces. right now beside Amare,Melo,Chandler,Iman, Everyone else on our roster is a second round talent or old and washed up and I didn't even mention We don't have a pg and that Iman is force to play out of position. So much working against us and yet we are still in the playoff hunt.

meloman1592
01-21-2012, 03:22 AM
Even the homer in me won't let me pick the Knicks over them. Yeah we beat them, but it was their third game in 3 nights. And at this point we look like a steamy pile of ****.

Yea ur right :facepalm: , big Knick fan myself but we're beyond horrible. Alright remove the Knicks from my statement and I'll stick by it

Beltrans Mole
01-21-2012, 03:29 AM
Tough start to the season, but for anyone to "jump ship" is ridiculous. I heard Mike Wilbon on ESPN say there were already "six locks to make the playoffs in the East this year". It's only 14 games into the season...I think people need to relax a little. Needless to say, I'm ****ing furious that we just lost to the Suns and Bucks at home. ****.

Rndy
01-21-2012, 04:14 AM
D'antoni is not the problem, he's has been given nothing useful to work with. The Players performance is reflecting on him, and it shouldn't be.

Hopefully Knicks FO agees with you. Because as long as he's there they won't get out of the first round.

HouRealCoach
01-21-2012, 10:18 AM
They will make the playoffs...

RyanRocker
01-21-2012, 10:26 AM
Still a lot of season left. They'll get it together.

nate2usmc
01-21-2012, 10:43 AM
Hopefully Knicks FO agees with you. Because as long as he's there they won't get out of the first round.

I definitely agree with you but unfortunately for the Knicks, is there a better option out tuerr when D'Antoni's contract is done? Phil wouldn't wanna come to a dysfuntional team btw.

nate2usmc
01-21-2012, 10:50 AM
What have i claimed about the 00's?

Unlike my fellow Nets fans on this thread, i dont hold dearly to the Kidd years that produced nothing for us except a showcase of how dominant Shaq was. Kidd didnt even want to be here. He just needed a fresh start, was unwilligly traded here, and decided to stay cuz he felt we could win.

I am speaking strictly hypothetically of right NOW. The Knicks are horrible, playing the easiest schedule in the NBA, and strapped with the untradeable contracts of Chandler and Amare. Meanwhile for better or worse, Dwight wants the Nets more than any other team.

IF the Nets get Dwight.. i believe they will rise in popularity and gain steam on the Knicks thru the years.

Very true. A lotta people would jump ship if Howard came to Brooklyn. Look at the Clipper fans today lol. Dwight and Deron would be a crazy and very functional (unlike the
Black Hole Melo and no D Amare) duo attracting way better players than the Knicks for cheap.

If they lose Deron and Dwight, welcome to the pain of being a Mets fan enduring lil bro status and bad results compared to the other team in NY. Lucky for you, the Knicks are playing like trash anyway lol.

blahblahyoutoo
01-21-2012, 11:23 AM
in other news, denver wins and felton having another great night.

blahblahyoutoo
01-21-2012, 11:28 AM
I am speaking strictly hypothetically of right NOW. The Knicks are horrible, playing the easiest schedule in the NBA, and strapped with the untradeable contracts of Chandler and Amare. Meanwhile for better or worse, Dwight wants the Nets more than any other team.



that's a lie. as of now, they have played the 2nd easiest schedule.

http://espn.go.com/nba/stats/rpi/_/sort/SOS

NYY09
01-21-2012, 12:14 PM
Anyone who expected them to be good, esp early on, was kidding themselves. In theory, they should be better, for sure, but not by much. Im just waiting to see the over-reaction when Baron comes back and they dont win 8 in a row right away.

Im sure the plan this year was to get as cohesive as possible in the regular season, make the playoffs, and make adjustments during the offseason. No way, esp with this backcourt and bench should anyone have expected them to compete with Chicago, Miami, etc.

side note: NY, at least we have the Yankees, Giants and Rangers....

Crackadalic
01-21-2012, 12:24 PM
1.Were making the playoffs because its the east

2.Were losing not because of our defense(11th in Def RTG and 17th in pts allowed) but because of our offense(24th in OFF RTG 17th in ppg 27 is apg) We don't play team basketball and don't move the ball.

3.We have no depth outside of Melo/Chandler/Amare. Our only offensive threat is Iman who is a rookie playing as a starter. Our bench is horrid and is the worse in the league in scoring.

4th.We have no pg to run this team. Nobody is saying B-diddy is going to be a savior but he is what we need from the pg position. Someone who can control tempo, runs plays for our teammates and get them to shoot where there comfortable

5th. Like I said for 3 we lack depth. We are just not built for the regular season. Were built as a playoff team.

jim51990
01-21-2012, 12:27 PM
the problem is melo always will be
i still do not understand how people bash bron for not winning in the finals and overlook that melo has made it out of the first round ONCE

llemon
01-21-2012, 12:28 PM
The sixers will not contend for a title without a superstar..they're 1st round and done

Like last years Hawks?

llemon
01-21-2012, 12:31 PM
the problem is melo always will be
i still do not understand how people bash bron for not winning in the finals and overlook that melo has made it out of the first round ONCE

Because Lebron and 'Melo are totally different players?

Lebron passes, rebounds, runs the floor both ways, defends, scores and is a leader.

'Melo scores.

Becks2307
01-21-2012, 12:31 PM
the problem is melo always will be
i still do not understand how people bash bron for not winning in the finals and overlook that melo has made it out of the first round ONCE

because melo is in no way shape or form comparable to lebron.

Melo is a great talent. But his high school games weren't televised. He wasn't anointed as the 'king' or the next jordan. Melo was just another great player.

Lebron was expected to be MJ and Magic in one.

tredigs
01-21-2012, 12:36 PM
Every real basketball observer knew they were all dessert, no dinner. That's all that really needs to be said on NY; it's tough to imagine two worse stars to build a franchise around.


Signed: Bitter Warriors fan.

Top ten PG, coach, depth. That's what you need - in that order. Good luck.


*Also, you are going to lose to the Niners. That is all.

tredigs
01-21-2012, 12:43 PM
because melo is in no way shape or form comparable to lebron.

Melo is a great talent. But his high school games weren't televised. He wasn't anointed as the 'king' or the next jordan. Melo was just another great player.

Lebron was expected to be MJ and Magic in one.

And Lebron lived up to the hype. That dude (especially when he's on one... which is pretty often) is the 2nd best basketball player I have EVER seen play outside of Jordan. And I've seen Magic and Bird.

Playmaking and defense; two things that go largely unnoticed in Lebron's game but they're what completely separates him from the pack. The pack being Kobe, Durant, Melo, whoever.

Side note, how long do Knicks fans think D'Antoni has in New York? Think he can be fired mid-season?

NYY09
01-21-2012, 12:48 PM
When will people realize that Dolan is the problem?

Who hired Isiah? Dolan

Who didnt bring back Walsh? Dolan

Who forced the Melo trade? Dolan

All everyone is arguing about it the secondary problems behind having a cancer for an owner. I'd rather have an owner that doesnt spend as much but has enough sense to have the people who understand the sport/business run it.

A perfect example of this is the Rangers, who Dolan could care less about, he left the team alone to rebuild through the draft, leave FA Duperstars alone, and the result being a winner. Jimmy, go play in your band a let the professionals do their job.

sep11ie
01-21-2012, 12:55 PM
They need to make a change? They just freaking did. Give it time.


P.S. I'm a Rockets fan, so I hope they are a lotto team so we get their pick...

2-ONE-5
01-21-2012, 01:17 PM
The sixers will not contend for a title without a superstar..they're 1st round and done

:facepalm:Maybe you should watch them play first. They are clearly the best team in the division and one of the if not the deepest team in the league not to mention the top defense. Say all you want about the schedule but I'll take the team that can beat (destroy) the bad teams unlike the Knicks who have lost home games this week to the Suns and Bucks (winless on the road).

You can keep prayin that the Knicks get it together but while you're doing so the Sixers will be cruising a Atlantic Division title.

Slimsim
01-21-2012, 01:21 PM
They need to make a change? They just freaking did. Give it time.


P.S. I'm a Rockets fan, so I hope they are a lotto team so we get their pick...

It's top 5 protected

Knickerbocker34
01-21-2012, 01:31 PM
knick haters thread?

Knickerbocker34
01-21-2012, 01:33 PM
and your smoking crack if you think the sixers are doing anything in the playoffs

smith&wesson
01-21-2012, 01:39 PM
they gave up billups and that was a bad move,

what they were thinking was b.davis & chandler > just billups. they took a downgrade at the pg position in order to get a big man that they needed.

i dont think its all doom and gloom for the knicks. they just need a new system. dantoni needs to go.

and they have alot of assets that ARE tradable. this is not comparable to isiah thomas days when players like francis, and marbury for example were untradable and on large contracts. amare, and chandlers contracts may be large, but there are teams that would trade for those players if they became available.

the knicks will be ok next season.

Chill_Will_24
01-21-2012, 01:39 PM
that's a lie. as of now, they have played the 2nd easiest schedule.

http://espn.go.com/nba/stats/rpi/_/sort/SOS

I sincerely apologize to Knicks fans. The Knicks didnt play the easiest schedule. They played the SECOND easiest schedule. Yes, that explains why they suck.

2-ONE-5
01-21-2012, 01:50 PM
and your smoking crack if you think the sixers are doing anything in the playoffs

:smoking:and your smoking crack if you think the Knicks are making the playoffs:violin:

jesusr77
01-21-2012, 01:55 PM
Knicks may need a new coach. Coach Mike D has to see the writing on the wall. So if I'm him go out with a bang. If Melo wants to chuck send him to the bench, if Amare wants to slack on Defense bench him, if guys continue to stand and watch then send them to the bench to watch. If we keep playing like this your going to get fired regardless, so atleast go out knowing you did it your way!!! P.S. Im one of the rare fans thats still think Amare and Melo can work but not in this system, coach needs to light a fire and show them even they can ride the bench if they wanna go Solo on the court!

tredigs
01-21-2012, 01:59 PM
Knicks may need a new coach. Coach Mike D has to see the writing on the wall. So if I'm him go out with a bang. If Melo wants to chuck send him to the bench, if Amare wants to slack on Defense bench him, if guys continue to stand and watch then send them to the bench to watch. If we keep playing like this your going to get fired regardless, so atleast go out knowing you did it your way!!! P.S. Im one of the rare fans thats still think Amare and Melo can work but not coach needs to light a fire and show them even they can ride the bench if they wanna go Solo on the court!

It's funny, 13 games ago i didn't know a Knick fan who though it would not work. I do think they're playing below their potential though; I still think they will be a strong first round exit in the playoffs.

Slimsim
01-21-2012, 02:01 PM
We just need to get a 8th seed do a little damage and then we can start looking for FA that can hit open shots

Chill_Will_24
01-21-2012, 02:04 PM
It's funny, 13 games ago i didn't know a Knick fan who though it would not work. I do think they're playing below their potential though; I still think they will be a strong first round exit in the playoffs.

Getting Melo forced D'Antomi to change his entire coaching philosophy. Melo is a ball stopper and i dont think he will ever work with Amare. Melo has exposed all the players in NY who benefited from Mike's system.

Chill_Will_24
01-21-2012, 02:05 PM
We just need to get a 8th seed do a little damage and then we can start looking for FA that can hit open shots

Ray Allen will be a FA and i dont think he will be returning to BOS. They are ready to blow it up.

JayW_1023
01-21-2012, 02:05 PM
They have the two most overrated players at their respective positions, Melo and STAT. Whaddaya expect?

ink
01-21-2012, 02:07 PM
When the Suns let Amare go it should have told Knicks fans something. I'm serious. I said this at the time, that Amare was not the piece to build around. He's an excellent player and even gets close to his pre-microfracture surgery performance every now and then, but the Suns watched him struggle on the defensive end for years and saw his limitations, no matter how awesome he looked at times. There was no point in them trying to keep him because they knew he wouldn't ever deliver a championship. Obviously they had other issues too but they tried him as a centrepiece before the Knicks did and he just wasn't good enough. That isn't going to change with the Knicks. And I'm not so convinced that Melo is a player to build around either. Top it all off with D'Antoni and you have a pretty weak trio of leaders for the team.

jesusr77
01-21-2012, 02:08 PM
They have the two most overrated players at their respective positions, Melo and STAT. Whaddaya expect?

Take it easy....Overrated is a bit strong both players have been to conference finals. You can say they have played horrible this year and no one can debate that...But the two most overrated is an OVER STATEMENT!

ink
01-21-2012, 02:10 PM
They have the two most overrated players at their respective positions, Melo and STAT. Whaddaya expect?

Agree.

justinnum1
01-21-2012, 02:20 PM
I wonder what a

felton/douglas
fields/?
galo/chandler
amare/?
chandler/mozgov

team would have looked

Chill_Will_24
01-21-2012, 02:25 PM
I wonder what a

felton/douglas
fields/?
galo/chandler
amare/?
chandler/mozgov

team would have looked

Hawks 2.0

The Knicks HAD to trade for a star.. they just traded for the wrong one. Not their fault since NOBODY knew Deron Williams was available. However they traded the farm for a player that made them instantly worse and made his ex team better just by leaving.

Melo is so overrated but it is hidden behind a veil of 35pt games that trick the public into thinking its everyone elses fault but his.

thekmp211
01-21-2012, 02:29 PM
meanwhile, the nuggets and the jazz are running laps around most of the western conference.

silverbrad
01-21-2012, 02:34 PM
I've been a Knicks fan since Bernard King was our stud, pre-Ewing, and I gotta agree with a lot of the things he said during the debacle at the Garden last night. For starters there's one very important thing he said and that's this...the coach doesn't match the players. Bottom line, period, point blank. While I'll also agree that some of the players aren't the perfect match with each other, they're still talented enough to be better than this. There's an entire hierarchy of disfunction here, starting with the owner and traveling right down to the pinky toes of the players. As a fan I can second guess everything they've done since they ignored Donnie Walshes last request...WAIT ON CARMELO. Had we had just waited and signed him there'd be a good chance that Ray Felton, Danillo, Wilson Chand, Mozgov, at least ONE if not a few would still be on this team. Then u erase the Chauncy abomination, you still have our amnesty clause (because if STAT keeps this up were gonna need it) and we'd be in the thick of it. I could go on and on and on and ON about this but I'm gonna try to summarize... either change the coach or change the players. The current Knicks are so mismatched that it's like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. 1. switch coaches-fire Dantoni and promote Woodson 2.get a point yesterday...ANY POINT GUARD why didn't we try to grab Jamaal Tinsley or Nate Robinson??? 3. Find a GM who's not a complete idiot that goes after celebrity instead of chemistry 4.lose the dead weight-if u can get ANYTHING for Fields, TD, Balkman, BILL WALKER (PLEEEEEASE LOSE THIS GUY) move em. period. Then we might be close to being competitive...

sep11ie
01-21-2012, 02:35 PM
It's top 5 protected

I said lotto, not top 5...

JEDean89
01-21-2012, 02:37 PM
people need to understand that the knicks opted to get superstars first then fill in role players. the knick's haven't traded away a single player that i can't live without. felton is overrated, his stat's were a product of playing huge minutes in dantoni's system. mozzy is a nice piece no doubt but we have already gotten a massive upgrade over him. randolph can't come off the bench in minnesota, enough said. gallo and chandler are good players but they are young and won't be winning anything anytime soon. compare gallo and wills playoff's vs. carmelo anthony, again enough said. the beautiful thing about basketball is that there aren't too many pieces you need if you have a superstar to win. look at orlando, look at miami. what you do need though is a good coach and a system that favors your personnel. the knicks need a starting pg which davis may or may not fill, they need a second vet guard in the backcourt to pair with him and they need another vet big like k-mart. put the rooks and sophomores back where they belong, playing minutes in the 20's and just providing energy. honestly fields, douglas and shumpert have all been put in a position to fail by asking them to start. the knicks will be a dangerous team come playoff time. i don't see them winning anything this year but with a new coach and a couple more pieces, they are as serious as anyone.

smith&wesson
01-21-2012, 02:42 PM
Jerry sloan said he would come back for the right situation maybe the knicks look in to bringing him in.

or if phill were to come out of retirement, i think they could run the triangle in new york.

sjbirds
01-21-2012, 02:44 PM
o wow i didnt know they didnt have a draft pick... i was gonna say why would you wanna make the playoffs and lose instead of getting a good pick in a good draft

jmoney85
01-21-2012, 02:54 PM
mike woodson would obviously get the job lol

llemon
01-21-2012, 03:00 PM
I've been a Knicks fan since Bernard King was our stud, pre-Ewing, and I gotta agree with a lot of the things he said during the debacle at the Garden last night. For starters there's one very important thing he said and that's this...the coach doesn't match the players. Bottom line, period, point blank. While I'll also agree that some of the players aren't the perfect match with each other, they're still talented enough to be better than this. There's an entire hierarchy of disfunction here, starting with the owner and traveling right down to the pinky toes of the players. As a fan I can second guess everything they've done since they ignored Donnie Walshes last request...WAIT ON CARMELO. Had we had just waited and signed him there'd be a good chance that Ray Felton, Danillo, Wilson Chand, Mozgov, at least ONE if not a few would still be on this team. Then u erase the Chauncy abomination, you still have our amnesty clause (because if STAT keeps this up were gonna need it) and we'd be in the thick of it. I could go on and on and on and ON about this but I'm gonna try to summarize... either change the coach or change the players. The current Knicks are so mismatched that it's like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. 1. switch coaches-fire Dantoni and promote Woodson 2.get a point yesterday...ANY POINT GUARD why didn't we try to grab Jamaal Tinsley or Nate Robinson??? 3. Find a GM who's not a complete idiot that goes after celebrity instead of chemistry 4.lose the dead weight-if u can get ANYTHING for Fields, TD, Balkman, BILL WALKER (PLEEEEEASE LOSE THIS GUY) move em. period. Then we might be close to being competitive...

If Knicks hadn't traded for Carmelo, he'd be a Net right now, and Knicks would have Deron Williams.

silverbrad
01-21-2012, 03:03 PM
Jerry sloan said he would come back for the right situation maybe the knicks look in to bringing him in.

or if phill were to come out of retirement, i think they could run the triangle in new york.

^^^ would make perfect sense, esp for the Zen master, end where u started type of thing, but Phil like walking into winning scenarios, and as of right now I don't think he'd do it. Just my .02 cents. Maybe with a solid trade that nets us a pg or a dynamic 2 he'd do it. I still think it'd make sense to try to do a sign & trade to get Deron, the question is who would we offer???

silverbrad
01-21-2012, 03:05 PM
If Knicks hadn't traded for Carmelo, he'd be a Net right now, and Knicks would have Deron Williams.

And I think we'd be cruising. Ball movement instead of constant iso's, STAT needs a point to run the pick and roll effectively with. How can we see that but upper management cant???

Tony_Starks
01-21-2012, 03:07 PM
I read a quote that said "the Knicks gave up chemistry for celebrity." That is a very true statement.

Everybody says they need a pg badly. I found that kind of ironic to watch the pg they passed on who desperately wanted to be a Knick come into their house and make a total spectacle. Hindsight is 20/20 but in a D'Antoni offense supposedly predicated off the 1 spot Brandon Jennings seemed to be a no brainer to me.....:confused:

Sportfan
01-21-2012, 03:14 PM
Nuggets-30-16 since trade

Knicks-20-27

hmmmm

kjoke
01-21-2012, 03:15 PM
PG is not the issue. Bench is. That has to be addressed. Half those players on the bench should not be on any bench

llemon
01-21-2012, 03:26 PM
And I think we'd be cruising. Ball movement instead of constant iso's, STAT needs a point to run the pick and roll effectively with. How can we see that but upper management cant???

I'm a Net fan, and I can't say that we're better off. But there were plenty of teams that would have traded for Carmelo if he had said that he would have signed an extension with them.

xxcubs22xx
01-21-2012, 03:30 PM
I guess you can call them a disappointment. But they are pretty much right where I expected them to be.

IDK what people expected from a team with no bench and no defense

jimm120
01-21-2012, 03:30 PM
Nuggets-30-16 since trade

Knicks-20-27

hmmmm

I don't think your looking at the only factors.

What was the nuggets record before the trade?

I can tell u that the Knicks were 26-24.

They were a .500 team. The nuggets were NOT a .500 team.

Sportfan
01-21-2012, 03:39 PM
i don't think your looking at the only factors.

What was the nuggets record before the trade?

I can tell u that the knicks were 26-24.

They were a .500 team. The nuggets were not a .500 team.
30-26.

silverbrad
01-21-2012, 03:40 PM
I'm a Net fan, and I can't say that we're better off. But there were plenty of teams that would have traded for Carmelo if he had said that he would have signed an extension with them.

Not to put the Nets down, since I grew up in Jerz, but going back to last year I think Deron on a team with STAT and the other players on the Knicks would be in better shape than this one with Melo. I also think the Nets would have benefitted from getting Melo instead of Deron. It's all hindsight now but if I remember correctly Donnie Walsh said he was disappointed in himself that he didn't know Deron was an available option. Magic was on TNT some time in the past week, and he point blank said this (summarizing, not an actual quote) unless u have superstars that are willing to pass the ball, a la Miami, u MUST have a good point guard to win in the NBA. The more I think about it the more I agree. We do not have superstars (if they can be called that right now) that are willing to pass so we need a good point guard. My only fear about Deron, for the Knicks AND Nets fans, is that he wants to move back home to Dallas, and will recruit Dwight till he's blue in the face. To me then it's good night Irene. Time to move on to plan b, or c, or d, or whatever letter were up to.

Slimsim
01-21-2012, 03:46 PM
I said lotto, not top 5...

Same ****

Kashmir13579
01-21-2012, 03:49 PM
They have time to turn it around.