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View Full Version : Is Dwight Howard's Offensive Game still too limited? (Revisited + Video)



Raph12
01-20-2012, 01:54 AM
A lot of people have been telling me how Dwight only scores off of putbacks and dunks that his teammates create for him. They constantly criticize his offensive game and say he doesn't have a postup game or a faceup game. When all else fails, they criticize his ability to pass the ball or his "apparent" shyness of contact... I know all of these criticisms to be false and myths, as I've watched each and every Magic game since Dwight was a rookie.

Although I've pointed out that statistically, Dwight has been the best and most productive post player in the league for the last couple of years, a lot of ignorant people out there disagree with me and continue to claim he scores only on putbacks and dunks.

This is no longer 2008 or 2009, Dwight statistically is the best post player in the league and on the court, he has shown a vast array of moves in his arsenal over the last two seasons... In this video I created (with minimal resources), you will see him reading the defense and then great footwork leading to: jump hooks (both hands), running hooks (both hands), spinning hooks (both hands), spin moves, counter moves, jumpstops, drivebys, fakes, sealing, dropsteps, up-and-unders, dreamshakes, bankshots, great passes and the occasional outstanding putback/spin-lob/block.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIt6Jx49sHk

My question to you guys is this; with him being the best statistically (production vs efficiency) in the post and now with his willingness to pass out of doubles, is Dwight Howard still too limited offensively?

Federal Reserve
01-20-2012, 01:59 AM
Howard just throws up bricks in the paint. Sometimes his shot goes in, sometimes it doesn't. He doesn't have real offensive moves. And even when he tries to create a shot, he is stopped by any average center.

Raph12
01-20-2012, 02:04 AM
Howard just throws up bricks in the paint. Sometimes his shot goes in, sometimes it doesn't. He doesn't have real offensive moves. And even when he tries to create a shot, he is stopped by any average center.

Posts like this, despite Dwight being more efficient/productive than any player in post plays, I sit there and listen to posts like this... Ignorance is bliss only for the person that is being ignorant.

Posters like this; dismisses all evidence and goes back to what he knew in 2007.

blahblahyoutoo
01-20-2012, 02:15 AM
anyone can put together a "youtube mix" of a players best moments.

Raph12
01-20-2012, 02:27 AM
anyone can put together a "youtube mix" of a players best moments.

It's not the "best moments" when it happens regularly, that is why it's a 10min video and you see a lot of the moves he does over and over... Again he's the best post player in the league statistically, shooting near 55% in the post.

http://tinypic.com/r/s3dcpj/5
http://i44.tinypic.com/s3dcpj.jpg

These stats are from Synergy Sports, so he dominates the post using the moves in the video, how is he limited again?

5ass
01-20-2012, 02:49 AM
people underrate dwight offensively, becz he doesnt exactly look fluid when hes playing. Still dwight is very effective in the post.

naps
01-20-2012, 03:05 AM
He still has a lot to prove offensively, a lot to be honest.

imagesrdecievin
01-20-2012, 03:10 AM
The only knock that still exists on Dwight's offensive game is his poor free throw shooting and lack of midrange shot.

Otherwise he has improved dramatically as a post scorer.

seikou8
01-20-2012, 06:31 AM
The only knock that still exists on Dwight's offensive game is his poor free throw shooting and lack of midrange shot.
Otherwise he has improved dramatically as a post scorer.

what great/goood center has had a midrange game

seikou8
01-20-2012, 06:36 AM
Howard just throws up bricks in the paint. Sometimes his shot goes in, sometimes it doesn't. He doesn't have real offensive moves. And even when he tries to create a shot, he is stopped by any average center.

:facepalm: like every player in the league cant make every single shot, also who was he stopped him more then once man who do some reseach before posting.i rather have dwight than melo,amare,chandler and our savior bron davis

JaJosoft
01-20-2012, 06:39 AM
He did get much better this off-season, but if he wants to be a real good offence player he has to develop a jumpshot around the paint.

3ballbomber
01-20-2012, 06:42 AM
Dwight wld be far more confident offensively if he cld hit his FT's. I know playing ball being able to hit FT's consistently helps build confidence in your game. It's a mental thing. Defenders are then less wanting to foul you. Howard being so average on the line places more pressure on his offense. He still has alot to learn &improve. Also needs to buckle down & quit smiling.

3ballbomber
01-20-2012, 06:44 AM
Howard just throws up bricks in the paint. Sometimes his shot goes in, sometimes it doesn't. He doesn't have real offensive moves. And even when he tries to create a shot, he is stopped by any average center.

Dude, whos in ur avvy. I was mezmorized for 5 minutes.

JasonJohnHorn
01-20-2012, 08:36 AM
He is better than he was, but still not where he should be, most especially when it comes to passing. His turnovers are far to high, but he has worked on his foot work, which does impress me now, but I still see him get away with offensive fouls and travelling (though everybody and their dog seems to be allowed to take three steps).

Knicks21
01-20-2012, 08:43 AM
He doesn't dominate offensively, with his size and frame, he should be able too.

Also, how hard is it to practice free throws, i mean seriously it really isn't that hard.

Swashcuff
01-20-2012, 08:44 AM
I think anyone who watches Dwight even on semi consistent basis over the course of his career will know that he has indeed grown as an offensive player. Is he refined offensively yet not so much but can he absolutely hurt down the floor almost at will, make no mistake about it. To think he's been one of the most efficient Cs ever without having a great offensive repertoire. IMO anyone who questions him impact offensively and thinks he's sub par doesn't know what they are talking about.

blahblahyoutoo
01-20-2012, 09:34 AM
what great/goood center has had a midrange game

uhhhh, are you kidding?
hakeem? robinson? ewing?
forget midrange, those guys had 3 point range.

Rockice_8
01-20-2012, 09:38 AM
Looking pretty and effectiveness are two different things and Dwight has the the more important of the two. If he could shoot 65-70% from the line though he'd average 28 ppg. I think Dwight is just fine in the post (everyone can still improve some aspects) but his FT shooting his what's holding him back not his post game.

thekmp211
01-20-2012, 09:47 AM
Howard just throws up bricks in the paint. Sometimes his shot goes in, sometimes it doesn't. He doesn't have real offensive moves. And even when he tries to create a shot, he is stopped by any average center.

every post you make just confirms how little basketball you actually watch

Chazm
01-20-2012, 11:25 AM
Ha! Sometimes the ball goes in, sometimes it doesn't. Classic.

I'm not sure where people are getting that he's improved this year. His game is exactly the same as last year except this year he is worse on FT.

He does practice FT and he can easily make them. The problem is mental. They say during practice he can drain 13 straight no problem

Swashcuff
01-20-2012, 11:30 AM
Ha! Sometimes the ball goes in, sometimes it doesn't. Classic.

I'm not sure where people are getting that he's improved this year. His game is exactly the same as last year except this year he is worse on FT.

He does practice FT and he can easily make them. The problem is mental. They say during practice he can drain 13 straight no problem

Have you seen his passing out of the double teams this season or rather his passing on the whole?

The same was also said about Shaq. With regards to his free throw shooting.

Chazm
01-20-2012, 11:34 AM
Ha! Sometimes the ball goes in, sometimes it doesn't. Classic.

I'm not sure where people are getting that he's improved this year. His game is exactly the same as last year except this year he is worse on FT.

He does practice FT and he can easily make them. The problem is mental. They say during practice he can drain 13 straight no problem

Have you seen his passing out of the double teams this season or rather his passing on the whole?

The same was also said about Shaq. With regards to his free throw shooting.

Ive watched every game.
the teams that give us trouble are the teams that play him one on one and cover our perimeter players. Dwight has been pretty good at passing when double teamed if he's not deep in the paint

Swashcuff
01-20-2012, 11:44 AM
Ive watched every game.
the teams that give us trouble are the teams that play him one on one and cover our perimeter players. Dwight has been pretty good at passing when double teamed if he's not deep in the paint

So the question is have you seen an improvement in that area from him. Also the tag at the bottom of the thread and the video title is 2011/2012 so I think in terms of scoring he's talking about the past 2 seasons.

Corey
01-20-2012, 12:04 PM
Anyone can post a youtube clip to make a player look more skilled than he is.

Dwight is the best center in the NBA. That dosen't mean he has a well developed post game.

Meaze_Gibson
01-20-2012, 12:13 PM
Yes. Dwight Howard is overrated/limited offensively. He does not have the confidence against respected opponents. he loves the left block a lil too much. Against respected opponents he will just go with his first move. No counters. No up and unders. No jumpshots. Now against a smaller unknown defender he will try a variety of moves....In essence, He looks good until he actually goes up against a good center or goes to the playoffs.

daleja424
01-20-2012, 12:23 PM
Dwight is far better than most people give him credit for.... but I will say this: Given his ahtleticism, frame, and the lack of many (if any) good centers in the league... dwight should be dominating on the offensive end...and he doesn't.

He should EASILY be averaging 25-30 ppg... and yet he has never surpassed 22.8 ppg.

I think the fact that he has never become an offensive force clouds peoples judgement, but he is certainly effective in the post and does have good post moves and a decent touch around the rim.

Wes_Craven
01-20-2012, 12:38 PM
Dwight is far better than most people give him credit for.... but I will say this: Given his ahtleticism, frame, and the lack of many (if any) good centers in the league... dwight should be dominating on the offensive end...and he doesn't.

He should EASILY be averaging 25-30 ppg... and yet he has never surpassed 22.8 ppg.

I think the fact that he has never become an offensive force clouds peoples judgement, but he is certainly effective in the post and does have good post moves and a decent touch around the rim.

You hit the nail on the head, 100% agree with everything you've said.

rapjuicer06
01-20-2012, 01:07 PM
Dwight is far better than most people give him credit for.... but I will say this: Given his ahtleticism, frame, and the lack of many (if any) good centers in the league... dwight should be dominating on the offensive end...and he doesn't.

He should EASILY be averaging 25-30 ppg... and yet he has never surpassed 22.8 ppg.

I think the fact that he has never become an offensive force clouds peoples judgement, but he is certainly effective in the post and does have good post moves and a decent touch around the rim.

I agree with your post completely. But the problem with him not scoring that much a game isn't due to him. It is due to how the offense runs and how the coach, coaches. Anderson is putting up more shots than Dwight is, J-Rich/Turk are right behind him at 10 each. Anderson/Rich/Turk all together take 33 shots a game. Dwight doesn't get a lot of looks. Orlando is a three point shooting team. I don't agree with it, but it's how it is. If Dwight took 15-17 shots a game, you better believe he'd be up there in scoring. Look at the top 10 scorers in the NBA this year, look at their shot attempts.

Kobe-24.6
Lebron-19.5
Durant-18.5
Love-18.3
Anthony-20.2
Ellis-20.5
LMA-18.9
Griffin-16.9
Westbrook-17.3
Howard-12.8

If Dwight was taking 24.6 shots a game (based on his shooting %) he'd be around 28 a game (not counting his free throws, which he makes 5 a game and would be taking a lot more) He just doesn't get the shot attempts

Rockice_8
01-20-2012, 01:16 PM
^^ 12 shots a game? That's terrible. Van Gundy should be fired if Dwight doesn't touch the ball in every half court set.

Dankster
01-20-2012, 01:26 PM
Great question by the TS. If just glancing by his numbers, statistically it would seem he's very effective in the paint. However, I don't think his post game is refined at all and he's pretty lucky he's blessed with the size and athleticism he has which makes up for the lack of fluidity in his post work.

Like many of you, I've watched him his entire career and he's definitely built a few moves in his repertoire since coming into the league, but he's nowhere near as developed as I thought he'd be. Dwight is very mechanical with his moves in the paint, almost robotic like when he's in the post and I don't understand why he doesn't move more fluidly down there.

That might've sounded a bit odd, but when I compare his post game to that of Hakeem or Ewing, I mean it's not even close. Those guys had the footwork of ballerinas (moreso Hakeem,) and were absolute monsters on the block and baseline when they posted up. But because Dwight is so dominant athletically and far superior to all the subpar centers in this league, the other facets of his game help him get to 20ppg per night with ease.

If Dwight had the post play of Hakeem or a Ewing, he'd easily average over 30 points per game against the current centers in this league.

Swashcuff
01-20-2012, 01:39 PM
I agree with your post completely. But the problem with him not scoring that much a game isn't due to him. It is due to how the offense runs and how the coach, coaches. Anderson is putting up more shots than Dwight is, J-Rich/Turk are right behind him at 10 each. Anderson/Rich/Turk all together take 33 shots a game. Dwight doesn't get a lot of looks. Orlando is a three point shooting team. I don't agree with it, but it's how it is. If Dwight took 15-17 shots a game, you better believe he'd be up there in scoring. Look at the top 10 scorers in the NBA this year, look at their shot attempts.

Kobe-24.6
Lebron-19.5
Durant-18.5
Love-18.3
Anthony-20.2
Ellis-20.5
LMA-18.9
Griffin-16.9
Westbrook-17.3
Howard-12.8

If Dwight was taking 24.6 shots a game (based on his shooting %) he'd be around 28 a game (not counting his free throws, which he makes 5 a game and would be taking a lot more) He just doesn't get the shot attempts

I've been saying this for yearsssss. The knock on Dwight was that he wasn't demanding the ball more in the paint. Well now he is and we've seen no major change. On more occasions than not the Magic ball handlers fail to establish him inside the way they should.

GREATNESS ONE
01-20-2012, 01:40 PM
What D12 lacks offensively, he more then makes up on the defensive and hustle end. Would love to see him develop more post moves and a consistent 10-15footer. I tihnk he can figure it out with more hard work and man he would be nasty with a Dream shake or up and under move.

HouRealCoach
01-20-2012, 01:48 PM
Dwight Howard can score on the block alone.. He doesn't need his teammates to help him

He is an easy 20, 14, 3 player.. I dont see how people can criticize him on anything but FT% & damn near every big man had a problem with that

Raph12
01-20-2012, 04:29 PM
He is better than he was, but still not where he should be, most especially when it comes to passing. His turnovers are far to high, but he has worked on his foot work, which does impress me now, but I still see him get away with offensive fouls and travelling (though everybody and their dog seems to be allowed to take three steps).

His passing is much improved this season, he used to be a very reluctant passer but now dishes the ball away constantly when doubled hard (avging 2.5apg this season)... The turnovers are more from offensive fouls, moving screens and 3-sec-in-the-key calls.


uhhhh, are you kidding?
hakeem? robinson? ewing?
forget midrange, those guys had 3 point range.

And yet Shaq and Wilt were so much more dominating offensively, despite their range only reaching out to about seven feet away from the basket... I agree he doesn't have the midrange shot down (bankshot is decent), but he's so dominant inside that it seems like a bailout by taking an outside jumper.


Anyone can post a youtube clip to make a player look more skilled than he is.

Dwight is the best center in the NBA. That dosen't mean he has a well developed post game.

Really, show me a youtube clip of Kendrick Perkins post moves... In my video (almost 10mins long), you see a vast arsenal of moves from Dwight which he does time and time again, against many different defenders. Show me something like that from any other big not named Bogut or Brook Lopez.


Yes. Dwight Howard is overrated/limited offensively. He does not have the confidence against respected opponents. he loves the left block a lil too much. Against respected opponents he will just go with his first move. No counters. No up and unders. No jumpshots. Now against a smaller unknown defender he will try a variety of moves....In essence, He looks good until he actually goes up against a good center or goes to the playoffs.

He does love the left block and against "respected" opponents, he goes to what he knows that works. It's called a goto move, the two moves he loves to do is the running hook across the lane and it's counter the spin baseline bank hook/layup/dunk... Show me one player over the last two seasons that guarded Dwight effectively and then I'll post stats to prove you wrong.


Dwight is far better than most people give him credit for.... but I will say this: Given his ahtleticism, frame, and the lack of many (if any) good centers in the league... dwight should be dominating on the offensive end...and he doesn't.

He should EASILY be averaging 25-30 ppg... and yet he has never surpassed 22.8 ppg.

I think the fact that he has never become an offensive force clouds peoples judgement, but he is certainly effective in the post and does have good post moves and a decent touch around the rim.

He has only a 25% usage rate (not even top 20 in the league), he'd need the ball a lot more or would need to start shooting his FTs at a very high clip to start avging 25-30ppg.

Chronz
01-20-2012, 08:23 PM
Hes underrated offensively by the masses but Im not buying the talk that Stan holds Dwight back.

Meaze_Gibson
01-20-2012, 08:48 PM
[QUOTE=Raph12;20636952]
He does love the left block and against "respected" opponents, he goes to what he knows that works. It's called a goto move, the two moves he loves to do is the running hook across the lane and it's counter the spin baseline bank hook/layup/dunk... Show me one player over the last two seasons that guarded Dwight effectively and then I'll post stats to prove you wrong.
QUOTE]

Since 2009, Kendrick Perkins and Demarcus Cousins has held him under his average in points though (sample size small-4 games for Cousins).

BigBongTheory
01-20-2012, 09:39 PM
he's limited offensively but he's still a beast....he's awful free throw shooter though.

Raph12
01-21-2012, 04:39 AM
Since 2009, Kendrick Perkins and Demarcus Cousins has held him under his average in points though (sample size small-4 games for Cousins).

Looking at one game instances are very different, you don't gameplan for that. Let me put it this way, this is Dwight's stats against Perkins in the 6 game series where they lost to the Celts in the ECFs in 2010;

22PPG-11RPG-3BPG on 57% shooting from the field

It's easy to stop someone in a game here and there, but in a full series is when you know whether you can actually stop that guy... And Perkins cannot.

As for Cousins (they've only played 3 games against each other, not 4), he dropped 31pts on 10-17 in the first game, 16pts on 4-8 (8-14FTs) in the second game and played less than 20mins due to foul trouble in the third... I hardly call that stopping him.