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View Full Version : "Kobe's the only one to have done the work, to deserve comparison.''



C-Style
01-16-2012, 06:07 PM
.
.
........-Michael Jordan



lazenby Roland Lazenby
I never said Kobe was better than MJ. MJ just told me Kobe's the only one to have done the work, to deserve comparison.


http://twitter.com/lazenby



Ever since Michael Jordan retired — all three times, really — the NBA has searched for the heir to his throne. Many players have popped up as pretenders to the throne, from Harold Miner to Jerry Stackhouse to Vince Carter. In recent years, people have stopped trying to find a clone and just searched for a similarly dominant great player. If you ever wondered why LeBron James is seen as such a failure, a lot of it has to do with his inability to meet the example set by Jordan.
There are many great players in the NBA these days, most of whom have never been directly compared to Jordan. Nevertheless, His Airness says only one player comes close enough to his greatness to merit the comparison. Not surprisingly, that player is Kobe Bryant. Here's what Roland Lazenby, a great writer currently working on a Jordan book, tweeted on Sunday (via PBT):


Kobe's ultimate competition is MJ. That's why MJ watches him. MJ made people think what he was doing wasn't human. Ditto the Kobester.

I never said Kobe was better than MJ. MJ just told me Kobe's the only one to have done the work, to deserve comparison.


Congratulations, Kobe: Your life's work has meant something. All that time spent aping Jordan's movements and skills has paid off. He acknowledged you. You made it.
Of course, if the notoriously petty Jordan was going to mention anyone, it makes that he'd single out Kobe, and not just because he'd consider the mimicry flattering. Bryant really does work harder than everyone else, and he's been good for long enough (with no signs of slowing down) that he may eventually top Jordan's longevity. They're similarly insane competitors.
The "Next Jordan" idea was always a silly one, but Bryant is certainly the player most like Jordan in all aspects of his game — even if he eventually becomes something less than the greatest player of the post-MJ era, which I'm sure many of you will argue in the comments. That's an accomplishment in itself. Even coming close to the top means something.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/michael-jordan-thinks-only-kobe-bryant-deserves-comparisons-222702003.html;_ylt=AoVBP7DukHxG6LqWGKNxvje8vLYF

PurpleJesus
01-16-2012, 06:11 PM
obviously Jordan was better, but Kobe is the closest thing we have had to Jordan since Jordan left.

John Walls Era
01-16-2012, 06:14 PM
This is actually quite a compliment. The GOAT is undeniably one of the biggest egomaniacs in the history of the game (deserves to be). To even allow some comparison must mean how much he respects Kobe compared to everyone else.

THE GIPPER
01-16-2012, 06:19 PM
We need more kobe threads!!!

northsider
01-16-2012, 06:21 PM
As a Bulls fan Kobe is without a doubt the closest thing to Jordan since Jordan. Prob. why I am such a big Kobe fan cause I love watching him play with the takeover mentality and how he always wants the ball in closing seconds.

LakersKB24
01-16-2012, 06:21 PM
We need more kobe threads!!!

I agree!

Great to see that MJ gives Kobe the respect he deserves!

ThunderousDemon
01-16-2012, 06:24 PM
Tell me something I didn't already know.:rolleyes:

whitemamba33
01-16-2012, 06:24 PM
meh.

I'm not going to be one of those people that say he shouldn't be compared to MJ when it's in a negative way to protect Kobe, and then force MJ comparisons when they are favorable.

Let the man just play.

Federal Reserve
01-16-2012, 06:25 PM
MJ didn't need a dominant center to win three of his rings. I don't see the comparison, to be honest.

StrandedCub
01-16-2012, 06:29 PM
MJ didn't need a dominant center to win three of his rings. I don't see the comparison, to be honest.

No but he needed a second fiddle that is a top 50 player of all time as well. Let's not act like he did it by himself.

LakersMaster24
01-16-2012, 06:31 PM
MJ didn't need a dominant center to win three of his rings. I don't see the comparison, to be honest.

Yea...but MJ needed the greatest rebounder of All Time, and the greatest perimeter defender and Top 5 SF of all time...

whitemamba33
01-16-2012, 06:33 PM
...and the 6th man of the year.

TONY!

If he had shoes, I would have bought them.

Dramedy
01-16-2012, 06:34 PM
MJ didn't need a dominant center to win three of his rings. I don't see the comparison, to be honest.

Kobe would have won with Pippen. Obviously Pippen isn't Shaq, but people really don't give him enough credit. The only real modern comparisons to Pippen are Andre Iguodala but about 20% better or LeBron but about 10% worse. If you put a player with those all around skills next to Kobe I think he has no trouble getting three rings, and honestly, given the fact that Pippen wasn't quite as much of a hassle as Shaq, they may never have fought and they could have stayed together and won even more rings. Can you honestly tell me you think MJ and Shaq wouldn't have fought if they played together for over a decade? You really think Shaq's gonna be ok playing second fiddle to MJ? Pippen may have been a bit of diva at some points, but he was never nearly as bad as Shaq, and people really need to give him credit for being a top 5 player in the league but always deferring to MJ when it mattered. Kobe would have won 3 rings with Pippen, maybe more.

Geargo Wallace
01-16-2012, 06:37 PM
Kobe did the best career emulation. Wade did the best imitation.

smoothchocolate
01-16-2012, 06:39 PM
MJ didn't need a dominant center to win three of his rings. I don't see the comparison, to be honest.

True!!! 1. He did have Scottie Pippen a top 50 player in N.B.A history.
2. He did have the best rebounder in the league or ever in Rodman.
3. He did have the best 3point shooter in the league in Kerr.
4. He had the greatest coach of all time in Phil.
So don't act like MJ did it by himself because he had alot of help, and so did Kobe to get where he is now!!!:cool:

whitemamba33
01-16-2012, 06:41 PM
Kobe did the best imitation. Wade did the best emulation.

lol

You know, just because it sounds good, doesn't make any of it true.

LAKERMANIA
01-16-2012, 06:42 PM
MJ didn't need a dominant center to win three of his rings. I don't see the comparison, to be honest.
Who is the girl in your sig?

Yea...but MJ needed the greatest rebounder of All Time, and the greatest perimeter defender and Top 5 SF of all time...

:nod:

LakersMaster24
01-16-2012, 06:44 PM
Kobe did the best imitation. Wade did the best emulation.

http://troll.me/images/futurama-fry/not-sure-if-serious-or-not.jpg

C-Style
01-16-2012, 06:45 PM
Kobe did the best imitation. Wade did the best emulation.

emulation= match or surpass

Wade has not matched Jordan at anything, Stop disrespecting the GOAT

darrenstover23
01-16-2012, 06:45 PM
That's an amazing compliment. It will probably bump him up on a lot of all time lists. Yes, Jordan's opinion carries that much weight with many.

Iron24th
01-16-2012, 06:45 PM
They both needed some help to get it done,no one can do it by himself,that's it.

JordansBulls
01-16-2012, 06:46 PM
Great compliment by MJ, but it is mainly because Kobe put in the work to be great.

Also it is obvious that Kobe and Jordan will always be compared because they both are about the same height, same build, similar style game and was coached by Phil Jackson. Both are explosive and both are assasins. The big difference is the overall productivity of the two. Kobe for instance in none of the seasons he has won titles has led his own team in win shares on the season. Now that doesn't mean he wasn't the best, but when you are comparing someone to other all time greats that always led their teams in overall production and most of the time the league that means a lot.

Gasol led the team in Win Shares and PER in the season and led the entire playoffs in Win Shares in 2010.

The Gasol vs Kobe is like the Nash vs Amare in 2005. Amare outproduced Nash, but Nash was the team's better player.

Same thing with Gasol and Kobe.

Difference here is this doesn't help Kobe's case when dealing with MJ, simply because whenever MJ won and whenever he was on the Bulls he led the team in PER and Win Shares in both the season and playoffs.

In his 15 years in the NBA Kobe has not had a single season when he was top 2 in production (win shares) or efficiency (PER).
Jordan was the best in both for basically 10 years straight, while playing the same position, in the same system under the same coach as Kobe.

Another thing that means a lot is the franchises they went to. Kobe went to one of the most successfull franchises in not only NBA History but sports history. Lakers had already won 11 titles and had been to 24 finals before Kobe ever even came to the franchise. Jordan went to a franchise that had done absolutely ****. Had 0 finals appearances and of course no titles and turned that franchise into a dynasty and one of the best in sports history. They both obviously needed help which is true in any team sport, but there is a remarkably difference in the type of franchise you go to as well which would determine how successful you can be. Bulls were not a winning organization until MJ came along

KB-Pau-DH2012
01-16-2012, 06:46 PM
Michael Jordan: Kobe is the closest to me. He and I get to sit in the same VIP booth.

PSD Posters that hate Kobe and the Lakers: Nuh-uh!!!


Basically, even if MJ says Kobe is the closest to him, you haters will say MJ is on weed or something and doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to himself, lol.

KB-Pau-DH2012
01-16-2012, 06:48 PM
emulation= match or surpass

Wade has not matched Jordan at anything, Stop disrespecting the GOAT

You're wrong sir, Dwyane Wade has surpassed Michael Jordan in one category....


More free throws attempted in an NBA Finals series. :p

numba1CHANGsta
01-16-2012, 06:48 PM
People can hate on Kobe all they want but I bet you they all love watching him play

MeLaPelan!
01-16-2012, 06:49 PM
This is just Jordan trying to get his name/legacy as far away from somebody like Lebron. I mean if you were Jordan who would you rather have compared to you? a proven winner like Kobe Bryant who has a killer mentality and skills that imulate MJ's, or a guy who hasn't won anything and is the self proclaim "chosen one" to derive you from your thrown? not to mention he chokes when the limelights are at their brightest ( specifically in the 4rth quarters of nba finals). I don't think MJ want's anything to do with being compared to Lebron.

bucketss
01-16-2012, 06:51 PM
so magic johnson doesnt deserve to be compared, or is he talking about only guards that play the same style as him

bucketss
01-16-2012, 06:52 PM
This is just Jordan trying to get his name/legacy as far away from somebody like Lebron. I mean if you were Jordan who would you rather have compared to you? a proven winner like Kobe Bryant who has a killer mentality and skills that imulate MJ's, or a guy who hasn't won anything and is the self proclaim "chosen one" to derive you from your thrown? not to mention he chokes when the limelights are at their brightest ( specifically in the 4rth quarters of nba finals). I don't think MJ want's anything to do with being compared to Lebron.

thanks for making this about lebron LOL

JordansBulls
01-16-2012, 06:52 PM
so magic johnson doesnt deserve to be compared, or is he talking about only guards that play the same style as him

We don't know the context of the quote. He could be talking about out of all players in the NBA today. MJ has always admired Magic and Bird, so IMO I think he is referring to guys in the league nowadays.

Geargo Wallace
01-16-2012, 06:52 PM
lol

You know, just because it sounds good, doesn't make any of it true.

I think I may have accidentally mixed up the two words, but Kobe's imitated MJ's career pretty well with all of the winning and accolades. I'd say Wade did the greatest impression of MJ back in the '06 finals.

darrenstover23
01-16-2012, 06:55 PM
No but he needed a second fiddle that is a top 50 player of all time as well. Let's not act like he did it by himself.

Not that it matters but one could argue that Pippen was Jordan's creation. Jordan's competitive drive strongarmed a lot of guys to bring it every day in practice. He was an a**kicker who demanded more from a lot of guys than they were probably otherwise willing to give. And of all the guys who Jordan challenged to bring it in practice, Pippen was easily who was the one who was challenged the most since he had to guard Jordan in practice. Pippen had no choice but to be great in that kind of environment.

But lets keep this about Kobe and his great career.

MeLaPelan!
01-16-2012, 06:56 PM
thanks for making this about lebron LOL

There the 2 players that seem to get compared to him more than others, hhe's name was eventually going to come up.

shep33
01-16-2012, 06:59 PM
That's a very good compliment, wow. MJ doesn't give props out a lot

shep33
01-16-2012, 07:02 PM
Wrong thread...

nickdymez
01-16-2012, 07:03 PM
emulation= match or surpass

Wade has not matched Jordan at anything, Stop disrespecting the GOAT

Wades finals performance was one of the greatest ive seen. Right there with ANY of MJ's.

SportsFanatic10
01-16-2012, 07:04 PM
You're wrong sir, Dwyane Wade has surpassed Michael Jordan in one category....


More free throws attempted in an NBA Finals series. :p

don't forget wade is also the better shot blocker which is crazy being shorter by 2 inches. for real kobe is the best comparison for jordan though.

SportsFanatic10
01-16-2012, 07:06 PM
Wades finals performance was one of the greatest ive seen. Right there with ANY of MJ's.

he speaks the truth.

kozelkid
01-16-2012, 07:07 PM
don't forget wade is also the better shot blocker which is crazy being shorter by 2 inches. for real kobe is the best comparison for jordan though.

Very debatable.
Wade has a career averaged of 1 bpg, with Jordan at .8. Let's not forget that MJ's career average includes his decline. Let's see where Wade is after he declines before we make such statements. Especially considering MJ's career high is as good as Wade's.

KB-Pau-DH2012
01-16-2012, 07:07 PM
^^^ Where do you think D-Wade ranks on the all time SG list?


I would say:

1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. Jerry West
4. Wade
5. Iverson
6. Reggie Miller
7. Ray Allen

leftie5
01-16-2012, 07:08 PM
Not a Kobe fan at all, but there is no denying he has a tireless work ethic and killer instinct not seen since Jordan. Dude is ridiculous and I expected him to slow down, but it's not looking like that is going to happen any time soon.

SportsFanatic10
01-16-2012, 07:09 PM
Very debatable.

i guess i can see that. i believe jordan averaged .83 blk per game for his career to wades 1/gm. but jordans blocks took a hit as he got older and wades average could go down in the next few years. wades lack of height just makes it so impressive though.

bucketss
01-16-2012, 07:10 PM
^^^ Where do you think D-Wade ranks on the all time SG list?


I would say:

1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. Jerry West
4. Wade
5. Iverson
6. Reggie Miller
7. Ray Allen

i think he'll eventually surpass west and become top3

darrenstover23
01-16-2012, 07:10 PM
^^^ Where do you think D-Wade ranks on the all time SG list?


I would say:

1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. Jerry West
4. Wade
5. Iverson
6. Reggie Miller
7. Ray Allen

Drexler should be on there somewhere.

kozelkid
01-16-2012, 07:10 PM
^^^ Where do you think D-Wade ranks on the all time SG list?


I would say:

1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. Jerry West
4. Wade
5. Iverson
6. Reggie Miller
7. Ray Allen

Your 1-4 is fine (with Wade soon surpassing West). Your 5-7 is WAY off.

As I see it right now, it's...

1. M
2. Kobe
3. West
4. Wade
5. Drexler
6. Gervin
7. Tmac

Honorable mentions: AI, Maravich and Allen.

Tmac's prime, albeit short, puts him ahead of the other 3.

AI was a notorious chucker. Although talented, his inefficiency to score the basket was what caused most of his teams to not be known for their offense. He was lucky, however, he played with some tremendous defensive teams.

Allen is obviously one of the greatest shooters this league has seen. Never known for being a great defender and probably not talented enough to ever be a number one option on most teams, but he is certainly worthy in the top 10.

Maravich is an example of a player who really played 8 years too soon. Obviously he revolutionized the game, but God knows how great he could have been if the 3pt shot was available for most of his career and not in the very end.

Sactown
01-16-2012, 07:18 PM
Because Michael Jordan is such a great evaluator of talent :rolleyes:

magic0320
01-16-2012, 07:40 PM
Not that it matters but one could argue that Pippen was Jordan's creation. Jordan's competitive drive strongarmed a lot of guys to bring it every day in practice. He was an a**kicker who demanded more from a lot of guys than they were probably otherwise willing to give. And of all the guys who Jordan challenged to bring it in practice, Pippen was easily who was the one who was challenged the most since he had to guard Jordan in practice. Pippen had no choice but to be great in that kind of environment.

But lets keep this about Kobe and his great career.

funny because jordan never made playoffs without pippen, and pippen made to western conference finals without jordan. :/ i think pippen made jodan by helpping him and not saying anything :facepalm: ...

darrenstover23
01-16-2012, 07:48 PM
funny because jordan never made playoffs without pippen, and pippen made to western conference finals without jordan. :/ i think pippen made jodan by helpping him and not saying anything :facepalm: ...

Yeah he did. Regardless, this reply doesn't really address what I was talking about. Good try though.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-16-2012, 07:48 PM
that sounds about right

MTar786
01-16-2012, 07:48 PM
jordan had equal help from 96-98 as kobe had in 00-02.. actually jordan had slightly more help.

and jordan also had a little more help from 91-93 than kobe had from 09-10

Geargo Wallace
01-16-2012, 07:48 PM
funny because jordan never made playoffs without pippen, and pippen made to western conference finals without jordan. :/ i think pippen made jodan by helpping him and not saying anything :facepalm: ...

incredibly false

Chronz
01-16-2012, 07:53 PM
jordan had equal help from 96-98 as kobe had in 00-02.. actually jordan had slightly more help.

and jordan also had a little more help from 91-93 than kobe had from 09-10

I never realized MJ had an MVP alongside him.

KB-Pau-DH2012
01-16-2012, 07:56 PM
I never realized MJ had an MVP alongside him.

Wasn't Pippen top 3 or 4 in the running for league MVP in 93-94, and he also won 94 all star game mvp, and was 1 ball call away from leading the bulls to the conference finals.

bucketss
01-16-2012, 08:01 PM
jordan had equal help from 96-98 as kobe had in 00-02.. actually jordan had slightly more help.

and jordan also had a little more help from 91-93 than kobe had from 09-10

lol at that time kobe was considered the "help" himself, wasnt even the best player on his team.

shep33
01-16-2012, 08:01 PM
Wasn't Pippen top 3 or 4 in the running for league MVP in 93-94, and he also won 94 all star game mvp, and was 1 ball call away from leading the bulls to the conference finals.

People always forget about that, and I don't know how. MJ is the best player of all-time, no question. But Pippen gets little respect. He led a Bulls team, with less talent than MJ had (obviously because MJ wasn't there) to one bad call away from the Conference Finals. Pippen was a stud.

So people saying Pippen wasn't good, or wasn't an MVP caliber player need to look at that season and playoff run. I've seen Pippen guard everyone on the Knicks... I'm talking from Derek Harper/Greg Anthony to Patrick Ewing, yes Patrick Ewing... guy was a freak defensively

bovice163
01-16-2012, 08:07 PM
Wasn't Pippen top 3 or 4 in the running for league MVP in 93-94, and he also won 94 all star game mvp, and was 1 ball call away from leading the bulls to the conference finals.

Are we really still arguing this? Jordan is the GOAT, always has been, and always will be. Kobe is one of the greatest in his own right. Isn't that enough for you people?

KB-Pau-DH2012
01-16-2012, 08:08 PM
Are we really still arguing this? Jordan is the GOAT, always has been, and always will be. Kobe is one of the greatest in his own right. Isn't that enough for you people?

Yes, that is enough for me. :)

bovice163
01-16-2012, 08:11 PM
Yes, that is enough for me. :)

Good on you then. When you have had the opportunity to have guys like Magic, Shaq, Kobe, Kareem, etc., play and win rings for your Franchise, then arguing how Kobe matches up to MJ is pretty trivial. :)

Supreme LA
01-16-2012, 08:11 PM
Michael Jordan: Kobe is the closest to me. He and I get to sit in the same VIP booth.

PSD Posters that hate Kobe and the Lakers: Nuh-uh!!!


Basically, even if MJ says Kobe is the closest to him, you haters will say MJ is on weed or something and doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to himself, lol.

Hahaha! This made laugh. :clap:

KB-Pau-DH2012
01-16-2012, 08:13 PM
Good on you then. When you have had the opportunity to have guys like Magic, Shaq, Kobe, Kareem, etc., play and win rings for your Franchise, then arguing how Kobe matches up to MJ is pretty trivial. :)

I love Michael Jordan. I love Kobe Bryant. And I love the game of basketball.

No one now and in the near future will come close to touching those 2 basketball gods.

Hawkeye15
01-16-2012, 08:15 PM
Considering MJ is a bigger fan of himself than anyone, that is actually quite a compliment.

Kobe is for sure the only guy since Jordan that should even get the comparison.

Supreme LA
01-16-2012, 08:20 PM
Because Michael Jordan is such a great evaluator of talent :rolleyes:

I actually believe he is and can be, especially when evaluating who can be compared to his own talent and greatness.

He has had an opportunity to survey Kobe throughout his whole career but i guess you're referring to his assessment or raw physical talent when drafting rookies and whether he is accurate in his judgment to whether those physical attributes will develop and translate onto the NBA game. Not to mention Kwame was also very immature even for a kid drafted straight out of highschool.

But I guess you're better at assessing who can be compared to MJ better than he can himself? Because you know some much more than him and every other NBA player turned analyst and most other knowledgable fans??? :confused:

You can never seem to give Kobe any respect and you don't understand how foolish you look when trying to slight MJ when he makes a comment to which he feels to be truth. Just go away dude.

shep33
01-16-2012, 08:24 PM
I hate the Jordan-Kobe comparisons... because we know MJ is the GOAT, but it takes away from what Kobe's done in his career.

Hawkeye15
01-16-2012, 08:24 PM
Because Michael Jordan is such a great evaluator of talent :rolleyes:

to be fair, Jordan isn't evaluating talent here, Kobe actually has a factual 16 year NBA career.

Supreme LA
01-16-2012, 08:28 PM
to be fair, Jordan isn't evaluating talent here, Kobe actually has a factual 16 year NBA career.

:clap:

Bruno
01-16-2012, 08:34 PM
Because Michael Jordan is such a great evaluator of talent :rolleyes:


to be fair, Jordan isn't evaluating talent here, Kobe actually has a factual 16 year NBA career.
:clap:



Considering MJ is a bigger fan of himself than anyone, that is actually quite a compliment. Kobe is for sure the only guy since Jordan that should even get the comparison.
agreed.

it's the main reason why I respect Kobe. he doesn't have "billion dollar hands", as said by Phil jackson, he's not a 6'9 point-guard capable of playing any position, he's not a 7 foot+ center who has the advantage of size and physical dominance. Despite his physical limitations (or despite him not having some sort of clear/unique physical advantage over his competitors) he is still able to put himself into the top ten discussion because of his work ethic, competitive drive, and fundamentals. IMO, the exact same thing can be said of Larry Bird, another player who I hold in the same regard/respect as bryant- for those reasons.

glad to see that most people in this thread are recognizing the compliment for what it is rather than use it as an excuse to take a shot at kobe.

Bruno
01-16-2012, 08:36 PM
MJ didn't need a dominant center to win three of his rings. I don't see the comparison, to be honest.

the comparison is in regards to work ethic. that's it. don't try to spin it into something you can slight.

Bruno
01-16-2012, 08:42 PM
Great compliment by MJ, but it is mainly because Kobe put in the work to be great.


only, as far as the quote is concerned. it was a comparison in worth ethic, nothing else.


Another thing that means a lot is the franchises they went to. Kobe went to one of the most successfull franchises in not only NBA History but sports history. Lakers had already won 11 titles and had been to 24 finals before Kobe ever even came to the franchise. Jordan went to a franchise that had done absolutely ****. Had 0 finals appearances and of course no titles and turned that franchise into a dynasty and one of the best in sports history. They both obviously needed help which is true in any team sport, but there is a remarkably difference in the type of franchise you go to as well which would determine how successful you can be. Bulls were not a winning organization until MJ came along

with all due respect JB, you're the only person I've ever seen who uses that as the basis of an argument against players. do you have any examples of writers, analysts, former players, management or respectable posters who agree wtih this notion?

larry bird had no control over where he was drafted. do you honestly slight his contributions to the history of the franchise because people 15-25 years older than him had had success in the same jersey when he was in childhood? it's not a fair evaluation.

jordan doesn't need this faulty argument as icing on the cake JB. he's the goat, everyone knows it.

darrenstover23
01-16-2012, 08:45 PM
only, as far as the quote is concerned. it was a comparison in worth ethic, nothing else.



with all due respect JB, you're the only person I've ever seen who uses that as the basis of an argument against players. do you have any examples of writers, analysts, former players, management or respectable posters who agree wtih this notion?

larry bird had no control over where he was drafted. do you honestly slight his contributions to the history of the franchise because people 15-25 years older than him had had success in the same jersey when he was in childhood? it's not a fair evaluation.

jordan doesn't need this faulty argument as icing on the cake JB. he's the goat, everyone knows it.


There's nothing faulty about it. This is also part of the whole Batman/Robin discussion, so it's not like this is a unique argument.

C-Style
01-16-2012, 09:12 PM
to be fair, Jordan isn't evaluating talent here, Kobe actually has a factual 16 year NBA career.

:clap: good 1

C-Style
01-16-2012, 09:13 PM
only, as far as the quote is concerned. it was a comparison in worth ethic, nothing else.



with all due respect JB, you're the only person I've ever seen who uses that as the basis of an argument against players. do you have any examples of writers, analysts, former players, management or respectable posters who agree wtih this notion?

larry bird had no control over where he was drafted. do you honestly slight his contributions to the history of the franchise because people 15-25 years older than him had had success in the same jersey when he was in childhood? it's not a fair evaluation.

jordan doesn't need this faulty argument as icing on the cake JB. he's the goat, everyone knows it.



:clap: Haha that has to be one of the most reatrded arguments I've ever read when comparing players. ever

Bruno
01-16-2012, 09:18 PM
There's nothing faulty about it.

there's one JB. anyone else?

i'll also note that he has 23 in his username.

Lakeshow24KB
01-16-2012, 09:18 PM
Huge compliment. I hope Kobe answers to this.

THE MTL
01-16-2012, 09:19 PM
Okay, Lakers fans. Kerr, Rodman were not around for every Bulls championship so that whole best rebounder and best shooter is thrown out the window.

Also, yes Scottie Pippen might be Top 50 player ever and one of the best SF of all time. But lets not get it TWISTED, it was still Michael Jordan's team by far! Kobe Bryant was never the best player on his team with Shaq and Shaq's 3 finals MVP awards proven that.

Bruno
01-16-2012, 09:24 PM
Okay, Lakers fans. Kerr, Rodman were not around for every Bulls championship so that whole best rebounder and best shooter is thrown out the window.

Also, yes Scottie Pippen might be Top 50 player ever and one of the best SF of all time. But lets not get it TWISTED, it was still Michael Jordan's team by far! Kobe Bryant was never the best player on his team with Shaq and Shaq's 3 finals MVP awards proven that.

bryant led the 2001 Lakers in post season win-shares. I've seen JB use the exact same statistic to argue that Gasol was the better or more valuable player for LAL in 2010 playoffs. bryant did great, but shaq was better. kobe put up #1 numbers in 2001, Shaq put up GOATesque numbers.

i agree with you, prime Shaq was the #1 guy, it was his team.

but again, this quote has to do with a comparison of work ethic. not ability, statistics, accolades or team success. dont know why everyone, laker fan and laker detractor alike is so quick to derail the subject of work ethic.

naps
01-16-2012, 09:37 PM
MJ = Where unprecedented dominance happened. His 6 finals MVPs speak for him. He never needed anything close to his talent level. He is the supreme definition of dominance. No one has ever done that. That's why he's the undisputed GOAT, by far.

naps
01-16-2012, 09:39 PM
I hate the Jordan-Kobe comparisons... because we know MJ is the GOAT, but it takes away from what Kobe's done in his career.

Agreed. Let Kobe be Kobe. Comparing him to Jordan is unfair for him and makes his wonderful accomplishments less because let's be honest everything will look much smaller than it really is when it comes to comparing to the GOAT.

ne3xchamps
01-16-2012, 09:40 PM
not again............. :facepalm:

KB-Pau-DH2012
01-16-2012, 09:52 PM
Huge compliment. I hope Kobe answers to this.

He can do so by tying MJ with a 6th NBA Championship!

darrenstover23
01-16-2012, 10:14 PM
He can do so by tying MJ with a 6th NBA Championship!

You'd think a Laker fan would be smarter than this by now. Comments like this are what invite people to be critical of Kobe and focus less on appreciating what he's done.

Voodoo Alchemy
01-16-2012, 10:20 PM
kobe is a better scorer than jordan but mj was the ultimate winner. whenever he stepped on the court...game over.

whitemamba33
01-16-2012, 10:21 PM
I feel sorry for anyone who lets hate or these kinds of comparisons keep them from enjoying one of the greatest players ever.

You can argue all day about who the top 10 of all time are...but for the most part, most of the players on everyone's list will have players that are long gone.

KingOf215
01-16-2012, 10:23 PM
MJ is the greatest player in the history of basketball or possibly ANY team sport. Wayne Gretsky? Joe Montana? Babe Ruth? I think those athletes marks in their respective sports are more worthy comparisons than Kobe Bryant is. Sure, Kobe is the closest in the NBA right now, but closest is still pretty far off.

whitemamba33
01-16-2012, 10:25 PM
MJ is the greatest player in the history of basketball or possibly ANY team sport. Wayne Gretsky? Joe Montana? Babe Ruth? I think those athletes marks in their respective sports are more worthy comparisons than Kobe Bryant is. Sure, Kobe is the closest in the NBA right now, but closest is still pretty far off.

huh?

I think you missed what the comparison is all about.

darrenstover23
01-16-2012, 10:41 PM
huh?

I think you missed what the comparison is all about.

Not really. The comparison is still only worth two seconds of analysis vs various other players who aren't even worth that.

But the bigger issue is that Kobe's resume has greatness worth acknowledging.

beliges
01-16-2012, 11:10 PM
Two of the best perimeter players to ever play the game of basketball. Theres nothing left to do but respect and appreciate.

AIRMAR72
01-17-2012, 02:54 AM
Kobe would have won with Pippen. Obviously Pippen isn't Shaq, but people really don't give him enough credit. The only real modern comparisons to Pippen are Andre Iguodala but about 20% better or LeBron but about 10% worse. If you put a player with those all around skills next to Kobe I think he has no trouble getting three rings, and honestly, given the fact that Pippen wasn't quite as much of a hassle as Shaq, they may never have fought and they could have stayed together and won even more rings. Can you honestly tell me you think MJ and Shaq wouldn't have fought if they played together for over a decade? You really think Shaq's gonna be ok playing second fiddle to MJ? Pippen may have been a bit of diva at some points, but he was never nearly as bad as Shaq, and people really need to give him credit for being a top 5 player in the league but always deferring to MJ when it mattered. Kobe would have won 3 rings with Pippen, maybe more.

lol highly doubt your wishes tobe I MEANT KOBE couldve have won rings with pip are you serious LOL get real brah LOOK no one HAS ever enter the NBA with THE WILL to win and display it every single nite as strong as MJ did only tom brady and he plays football MJ mead everybody better included scottie

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-17-2012, 03:00 AM
lol highly doubt your wishes tobe I MEANT KOBE couldve have won rings with pip are you serious LOL get real brah LOOK no one HAS ever enter the NBA with THE WILL to win and display it every single nite as strong as MJ did only tom brady and he plays football MJ mead everybody better included scottie

:confused:

next time use punctuation marks, I have no idea what you are trying to say

C-Style
01-17-2012, 03:05 AM
lol highly doubt your wishes tobe I MEANT KOBE couldve have won rings with pip are you serious LOL get real brah LOOK no one HAS ever enter the NBA with THE WILL to win and display it every single nite as strong as MJ did only tom brady and he plays football MJ mead everybody better included scottie

I can easily debunk this notion, but I won't kill this into a MJ vs KB thread

LongWayFromHome
01-17-2012, 03:31 AM
They both needed some help to get it done,no one can do it by himself,that's it.

...I think your forgetting somebody

He's on that penny down there.

RaiderLakersA's
01-17-2012, 03:36 AM
Two of the best perimeter players to ever play the game of basketball. Theres nothing left to do but respect and appreciate.

:clap:

nickdymez
01-17-2012, 03:44 AM
You'd think a Laker fan would be smarter than this by now. Comments like this are what invite people to be critical of Kobe and focus less on appreciating what he's done.

shut up please

DaLakerz Rulz
01-17-2012, 04:08 AM
This thread should be in the NBA comparisons forum. I just don't understand why mods keep allowing these topics (mostly Kobe vs [insert player name]) to go on over and over and over in the main forum. It just leads to pointless arguments and hating.

blom85
01-17-2012, 04:15 AM
How can people hate on Kobe? He's not the one that came out and said this, dude's got 5 championship's 3 with, Shaq 2 without. I acutally think Jordan had more help in all his championships then Kobe had in his last 2. And no I'm not on cocaine I quit 4 years ago.

amos1er
01-17-2012, 05:08 AM
You're wrong sir, Dwyane Wade has surpassed Michael Jordan in one category....


More free throws attempted in an NBA Finals series. :p

:clap:

People forget that the Finals MVP that year should have been Bennett Salvadore. 25 free throw attempts in game five including a completely bogus one with 1 second left to win the game...not even MJ got bailed out by the refs in close games...especially in the finals...especially when there was no contact. Wade attempted 15 free throw attempts per game in the finals that year...a league record...96 in 6 games. he avergaed 19 attempts in the games Miami won. Not to say that Wade didn't play his *** off and is an incredible player, I'm just saying that the refs helped a lot and no other player in NBA history had that kind of help.

That free throw controversy led NBA fans to create blogs like these that summer in 2006: http://www.ericfolkerth.com/wheneftalks/files/archive-jun-2006.html http://www.ericfolkerth.com/wheneftalks/files/themavswererobbed2.html

MickeyMgl
01-17-2012, 05:30 AM
Yea...but MJ needed the greatest rebounder of All Time, and the greatest perimeter defender and Top 5 SF of all time...

And statistically the best 3-point shooter of all time.

MickeyMgl
01-17-2012, 05:42 AM
Not that it matters but one could argue that Pippen was Jordan's creation.

I've heard this argued before, and it's always a weak argument. It's not a coincidence that Scottie Pippen was selected 5th overall. MAYBE Jordan gave him some mentoring (and maybe not), but Pippen was clearly going to be an outstanding player.

darrenstover23
01-17-2012, 11:18 AM
shut up please

It's the truth. Deal with it.

darrenstover23
01-17-2012, 11:20 AM
I've heard this argued before, and it's always a weak argument. It's not a coincidence that Scottie Pippen was selected 5th overall. MAYBE Jordan gave him some mentoring (and maybe not), but Pippen was clearly going to be an outstanding player.

This is incorrect. Scottie Pippen was taken 5th overall for his potential. And what happened was well beyond "mentoring". "Mentoring"...that's quite a euphemism. LOL

It would seem less weak if you actually remembered what Pippen was like in the beginning. LOL

nickdymez
01-17-2012, 11:42 AM
It's the truth. Deal with it.

Naw. Its stupid

darrenstover23
01-17-2012, 11:46 AM
Naw. Its stupid

No, but I can see why someone like you would say that.

Raps18-19 Champ
01-17-2012, 11:49 AM
Kobe's a boss.

Heatcheck
01-17-2012, 12:16 PM
How can people hate on Kobe? He's not the one that came out and said this, dude's got 5 championship's 3 with, Shaq 2 without. I acutally think Jordan had more help in all his championships then Kobe had in his last 2. And no I'm not on cocaine I quit 4 years ago.

the candy makes you dandy

Heatcheck
01-17-2012, 12:25 PM
kobe is a better scorer than jordan but mj was the ultimate winner. whenever he stepped on the court...game over.

this is a serious comment?

you realize jordan AVERAGES 30 a game for his career, and this is with 2 years at 38 and 39 where he average like 20ppg factored in

KB-Pau-DH2012
01-17-2012, 01:23 PM
You'd think a Laker fan would be smarter than this by now. Comments like this are what invite people to be critical of Kobe and focus less on appreciating what he's done.

Calm down man, take a deep breath, my goodness.

GREATNESS ONE
01-17-2012, 01:35 PM
Greatest players of their respected Generations. We are blessed as Basketball fans to have witnessed Greatness.

Hawkeye15
01-17-2012, 01:37 PM
kobe is a better scorer than jordan but mj was the ultimate winner. whenever he stepped on the court...game over.

Kobe was not a better scorer. I can't think of anything Kobe is better than MJ at outside maybe three's, which MJ knew he sucked at so he didn't shoot many, but his overall game is very similar. Basically, Kobe is the poor man's Michael Jordan. I thought that was assumed at this point.

basketfan4life
01-17-2012, 01:37 PM
Because Michael Jordan is such a great evaluator of talent :rolleyes:

Wow, sacramento fans are so butt hurt about Kobe, it always makes my day :)

blystr2002
01-17-2012, 01:40 PM
this is a serious comment?

you realize jordan AVERAGES 30 a game for his career, and this is with 2 years at 38 and 39 where he average like 20ppg factored in

I am not going to get into this discussion because they are both great scorers, but if you are going to count that in for Jordan the you need to count Kobe's rookie yr. averaging 7 pts a game in 15 mins per and 2nd yr averaging 15 pts in 26 mins. He wasn't a starter right away. His numbers would be higher too Just saying

GREATNESS ONE
01-17-2012, 01:41 PM
Kobe was not a better scorer. I can't think of anything Kobe is better than MJ at outside maybe three's, which MJ knew he sucked at so he didn't shoot many, but his overall game is very similar. Basically, Kobe is the poor man's Michael Jordan. I thought that was assumed at this point.

I'm gonna laugh my *** off when Kobe becomes the leagues all time leading scorer.:clap: Hawkeye I got nothing but love for you bro but even when you're trying to give Kobe props you seem to be low balling him:D Anyways, who cares, we're never gonna have another MJ. Just like we're never gonna have another Kobe. Let's appreciate these legendary players in their own way and they both deserve a tremendous amount of respect.

GREATNESS ONE
01-17-2012, 01:42 PM
I am not going to get into this discussion because they are both great scorers, but if you are going to count that in for Jordan the you need to count Kobe's rookie yr. averaging 7 pts a game in 15 mins per and 2nd yr averaging 15 pts in 26 mins. He wasn't a starter right away. His numbers would be higher too Just saying

LOL you're wasting your time. :p

Kobe2324
01-17-2012, 01:49 PM
MJ didn't need a dominant center to win three of his rings. I don't see the comparison, to be honest.

Really? Jus cause he didnt have a big man does not mean he didnt have help, you may have heard of Scottie pippen, he was ok back in the day I guess if your into really good players and all. Ron Harper, also a very good player, and what's that crazy guy's name again, Rodman was it, he was ok to if your into lock down defender and one of the best rebounders ever. MJ had help just like Kobe did, but at dif positions, just a silly comment!

Heatcheck
01-17-2012, 01:58 PM
I am not going to get into this discussion because they are both great scorers, but if you are going to count that in for Jordan the you need to count Kobe's rookie yr. averaging 7 pts a game in 15 mins per and 2nd yr averaging 15 pts in 26 mins. He wasn't a starter right away. His numbers would be higher too Just saying

YOUR the one who called Kobe a better scorer than Jordan for whatever reason. just look at the numbers, jordan scored way more than kobe. and even if you GAVE kobe 30 ppg those first 2 years, which he did only 4 times by the way, he still couldnt hold a candle to jordan.

Heatcheck
01-17-2012, 02:02 PM
I'm gonna laugh my *** off when Kobe becomes the leagues all time leading scorer.:clap: Hawkeye I got nothing but love for you bro but even when you're trying to give Kobe props you seem to be low balling him:D Anyways, who cares, we're never gonna have another MJ. Just like we're never gonna have another Kobe. Let's appreciate these legendary players in their own way and they both deserve a tremendous amount of respect.

dont hold your breath, he still has 10,000 to go. and that still would prove hawkeyes point, he's already played a half a season more than jordan and is like 4,000 points behind him

blystr2002
01-17-2012, 02:03 PM
YOUR the one who called Kobe a better scorer than Jordan for whatever reason. but yea, god forbid you have a sports discussion based on facts in a sports forum. just look at the numbers, jordan scored way more than kobe. and even if you GAVE kobe 30 ppg those first 2 years, which he did only 4 times by the way, he still couldnt hold a candle to jordan.

Wrong guy buddy. I am not the one that said that. I was just giving you facts about Kobe. He didn't become the teams #1 scoring option to about his 4th yr. They are both great. You could argue either way or just appreciate.

Hawkeye15
01-17-2012, 02:07 PM
I'm gonna laugh my *** off when Kobe becomes the leagues all time leading scorer.:clap: Hawkeye I got nothing but love for you bro but even when you're trying to give Kobe props you seem to be low balling him:D Anyways, who cares, we're never gonna have another MJ. Just like we're never gonna have another Kobe. Let's appreciate these legendary players in their own way and they both deserve a tremendous amount of respect.

I do have a tremendous amount of respect for Kobe, and it wasn't an insult. I simply think he is Michael Jordan light.

And yeah man, I always hate, "the next whatever". In this comparison, it appears as if I am dogging on Kobe, when in reality MJ was just that damn good. Kobe has had a great career, and out of the millions of people who have played basketball in this world, only 5-7 of them can claim being better at it than Kobe Bryant.

Heatcheck
01-17-2012, 02:09 PM
Wrong guy buddy. I am not the one that said that. I was just giving you facts about Kobe. He didn't become the teams #1 scoring option to about his 4th yr. They are both great. You could argue either way or just appreciate.

my apologies. but there's still nothing to indicate he's ever been a better scorer than jordan.

and jordan missed 2 years in his prime and played 2 yrs at 40 yrs old

DoubleDragon
01-17-2012, 02:09 PM
Yea...but MJ needed the greatest rebounder of All Time, and the greatest perimeter defender and Top 5 SF of all time...

EXACTLY:nod:
Think about that (kids). Always those facts are conveniently forgotten about. Kobe haters, you gotta give the man his props regardless of the hate. (MJ and many greats have, and they certainly know the game)

He'll be missed when he's gone.When he stops being a threat to your team(s) after retirement, maybe they'll all step back and appreciate his presence in the game and accomplishments overall (ridiculous list of those).

MJ had the same detractors and haters and doubters, only difference being, there was no Twitter, social media and online forums to display all those on a daily basis.

GREATNESS ONE
01-17-2012, 02:22 PM
dont hold your breath, he still has 10,000 to go. and that still would prove hawkeyes point, he's already played a half a season more than jordan and is like 4,000 points behind him

LOL I'm 30 years old and have watched every single minute of Kobe's career. Been watching basketball hardcore since the 80's. Please. I can go on and on about a million things that differentiate Kobe's and MJ's career and how a lot of things benefit MJ's. But I won't get into it with a kid:rolleyes: Just watch Kobe average over 20ppg the next 4-5 years;)


I do have a tremendous amount of respect for Kobe, and it wasn't an insult. I simply think he is Michael Jordan light.

And yeah man, I always hate, "the next whatever". In this comparison, it appears as if I am dogging on Kobe, when in reality MJ was just that damn good. Kobe has had a great career, and out of the millions of people who have played basketball in this world, only 5-7 of them can claim being better at it than Kobe Bryant.

You know Hawkeye, I've been on PSD forever, been watching 2 years before I even signed up for a account. I've seen you grow up and watched you Dog Kobe consistently. I'm not the one sitting here saying Kobe is better then MJ. Just saying they are both legendary players, that both deserve all the credit in the world for being a 1 of a kind fierce competitor. Don't be shocked though if Mamba wins another championship and catapults him to top 3 status:)

Heatcheck
01-17-2012, 02:37 PM
[QUOTE=GREATNESS ONE;20593954]LOL I'm 30 years old and have watched every single minute of Kobe's career. Been watching basketball hardcore since the 80's. Please. I can go on and on about a million things that differentiate Kobe's and MJ's career and how a lot of things benefit MJ's. But I won't get into it with a kid:rolleyes: Just watch Kobe average over 20ppg the next 4-5 years;)


i know you wont get into that because its all ********, jordan played in a tougher era with handchecking and armbars, and with better bigmen in the paint. you can get snippy all you like, but nothing you said there has anything to do with my post, nothing. he still has to drop another 10000 points to catch kareem and he still has 4000 less points than jordan, while playing more games.

Ive been watching hardcore since the 80s? you were seven years old at best the the last year of the decade, who are you trying to fool.

bottom line is, whether it hurts your feelings or not, Jordan did everything better than Kobe, scored more, at a higher percentage, play better perimeter D, get more rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, win rings, awards,EVERYTHING.

beliges
01-17-2012, 02:49 PM
MJ and Kobe, the two greatest perimeter players to ever play the game of basketball. lets leave it at that. No need to hate on one to make the other look better. Both were tremendously dominant and talented players. Both dominated their era like no other and both did it through hard work and dedication. Both were unstoppable scorers, deadly defenders, tremendous crunch time players, had flawless fundamentals and footwork and mastered every single aspect of the game of basketball.

JordansBulls
01-17-2012, 02:51 PM
kobe is a better scorer than jordan but mj was the ultimate winner. whenever he stepped on the court...game over.

Definitely not

Follow up: Found the list of the 15 seasons over 30 pts/75 possessions.

*The first player to do it was George Gervin in 1982
*6 of the top 7 scoring rates are from Michael Jordan, and 9 of the 15 in total
*Jordan's 91 and 96 seasons have the top 2 ORtg's of any player since 1980 shooting over 20 FGA/game
*LeBron's 2010 season had the 9th best ORtg in the period and a scoring rate of 29.99.
*Wilt's 1962 season estimates to 28.1 pts/75

The 30 pt/75 club

Player (yr) Pts/75 Rel TS%
Jordan 87 34.9 +2.4%
Kobe 06 34.2 +2.4%
Jordan 88 32.7 +6.5%
Jordan 93 32.3 +2.8%
Jordan 90 32.1 +6.9%
Jordan 91 32.1 +7.1%
Jordan 96 31.9 +5.8%
Gervin 82 31.8 +2.4%
King 85 31.7 +4.2%
McGrady 03 31.5 +4.5%
Wade 09 31.4 +3.0%
Jordan 97 31.2 +3.1%
Malone 90 30.5 +8.9%
Wilkins 88 30.3 -0.4%
Jordan 89 30.0 +7.7%


For the postseason, I haven't searched pre-1980 but the highest rate since then was LeBron James in 2009, who averaged 35.7 pts/75 possessions (+7.4%). Jordan has the next 6 highest rates. In total, there were 16 seasons since 1980 of playoff rates over 30 for players playing at least 2 series.

*Jordan had 10 of the 16
*Jordan's 1993 PS run: 34.7/6.6/5.9 (+7.1%)
*The rest, in order: Shaq 98, King 84, Shaq 97, Hakeem 95, Wilkins 88
*Kobe's best PS rate was 2010, at 29.3 pts/75 (+2.4%)[/quote]


Season

Highest PPG Average: 30.12
Most seasons leading league in Points: 11
Most scoring titles: 10


Playoffs

Most Points Per Game (min. 25 games)
33.4 by Michael Jordan (179 games)

Most Points in a Game
63 by Michael Jordan

Most 50 Point Games
8 by Michael Jordan

Most 40 Point Games
38 by Michael Jordan

Most 30 Point Games
109 by Michael Jordan

Most 20 Point Games
174 by Michael Jordan (he played 179 playoff games and scored under 20 only 5 times)
-Highest PER Efficiency Playoffs: 28.59

In the Playoffs Kobe has 1 game of 50+ and 10 games of 40+ in 12 years. MJ got 8 games of 40+ in one postseason alone and he has more than double the 50+ point games and more than double the 40+ point games than any player in NBA History for the Playoffs (where everything matters)


Most Career 50+ Point Games in Playoffs History
1. MJ = 8
2. Wilt = 4
3. West = 3
Iverson = 3



Most Career 40+ Point Games in Playoffs History

1. MJ = 38
2. West = 20
3. Baylor = 14
4. Wilt = 13
5. Shaq = 12
6. Hakeem = 11
Kobe = 11
Iverson = 10
9. Lebron = 9


Most Career 30+ Point Games in Playoffs History
MJ - 109
Kobe - 81
Kareem - 75
West -74
Baylor - 60

blystr2002
01-17-2012, 03:10 PM
[QUOTE=GREATNESS ONE;20593954]LOL I'm 30 years old and have watched every single minute of Kobe's career. Been watching basketball hardcore since the 80's. Please. I can go on and on about a million things that differentiate Kobe's and MJ's career and how a lot of things benefit MJ's. But I won't get into it with a kid:rolleyes: Just watch Kobe average over 20ppg the next 4-5 years;)


i know you wont get into that because its all ********, jordan played in a tougher era with handchecking and armbars, and with better bigmen in the paint. you can get snippy all you like, but nothing you said there has anything to do with my post, nothing. he still has to drop another 10000 points to catch kareem and he still has 4000 less points than jordan, while playing more games.


Ive been watching hardcore since the 80s? you were seven years old at best the the last year of the decade, who are you trying to fool.

bottom line is, whether it hurts your feelings or not, Jordan did everything better than Kobe, scored more, at a higher percentage, play better perimeter D, get more rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, win rings, awards,EVERYTHING.

Their numbers are soo similar you are being to narrow minded making some of these claims like 5.3 to 4.7 for assisst or .8 to .5 for blocks. I mean you need to take into account they different schemes and teammates, such as Shaq change numbers.

Also, somebody said that Jordan did it when it was tougher to score because of hand checking and everything. Doesn't that work the other way to meaning it would be easier to block shots and get steals.

nickdymez
01-17-2012, 03:15 PM
No, but I can see why someone like you would say that.

You know me?

thekmp211
01-17-2012, 03:22 PM
jordan had 38 postseason games of 40+, lol. that's unbelievable.

say what you want about kobe but he's the hardest worker in the league.

Heatcheck
01-17-2012, 03:26 PM
[QUOTE=Heatcheck;20594141]

Their numbers are soo similar you are being to narrow minded making some of these claims like 5.3 to 4.7 for assisst or .8 to .5 for blocks. I mean you need to take into account they different schemes and teammates, such as Shaq change numbers.

Also, somebody said that Jordan did it when it was tougher to score because of hand checking and everything. Doesn't that work the other way to meaning it would be easier to block shots and get steals.

all very good points especially the one about blocks and steals, i guess your right, it is kind of too close, although i would imagine shaq would just make kobe's favorite shot, the mid range jumper, that much easier. but your right, on everything, except the points, who's the better scorer shouldnt even be a debate.

Hawkeye15
01-17-2012, 03:33 PM
You know Hawkeye, I've been on PSD forever, been watching 2 years before I even signed up for a account. I've seen you grow up and watched you Dog Kobe consistently. I'm not the one sitting here saying Kobe is better then MJ. Just saying they are both legendary players, that both deserve all the credit in the world for being a 1 of a kind fierce competitor. Don't be shocked though if Mamba wins another championship and catapults him to top 3 status:)

Its funny that Laker fans think I dog him, when all I do is give a rational perspective. Furthermore, I have done nothing but compliment him in this thread. Not one good thing I say about Kobe even gets picked up by you guys, but even the slightest criticism, and I get jumped on for it. Not that I care at all, I just find it interesting. If I cared, I would have just stopped posting on anything Kobe a long time ago.

ChicagoJ
01-17-2012, 03:45 PM
I agree with MJ. And Kobe has earned to be in the conversation with the great ones.

darrenstover23
01-17-2012, 03:59 PM
Also, somebody said that Jordan did it when it was tougher to score because of hand checking and everything. Doesn't that work the other way to meaning it would be easier to block shots and get steals.

Fair point but defense isn't all about blocked shots and steals. It's also about positioning/denials/disruptions. When Jordan didn't want you to score, things went on lockdown for the most part. It's also about rotating down to help on bigs.

darrenstover23
01-17-2012, 04:07 PM
Their numbers are soo similar you are being to narrow minded making some of these claims like 5.3 to 4.7 for assisst or .8 to .5 for blocks. I mean you need to take into account they different schemes and teammates, such as Shaq change numbers.

Also, somebody said that Jordan did it when it was tougher to score because of hand checking and everything. Doesn't that work the other way to meaning it would be easier to block shots and get steals.

nm

majmarcus
01-17-2012, 04:30 PM
I think I may have accidentally mixed up the two words, but Kobe's imitated MJ's career pretty well with all of the winning and accolades. I'd say Wade did the greatest impression of MJ back in the '06 finals.

Brother, If you dont mind my asking. Did you submit that statement without considering the fact that NOONE was allowed to guard D-Wade???? Hence the name "D-Whistle"!!!! If that's what you call the "Greatest Impression", then Jordan has to be vastly overrated in your book.

MTL_123
01-17-2012, 04:46 PM
I dnt think kobe is the only one that worked to get the comparison. I just think Lakers GM/Owners were the only one that tried wen their star player was mad and wanted help
Kobe Mad demands trade and help Owners get him Pau Gasol
Howard Mad demands trade and help owners Get him Gilbert Arenas---fail
Lebron asks for help owners get him Mo williems---fail
Lakers Gm is just smart thats it

nickdymez
01-17-2012, 04:47 PM
I dnt think kobe is the only one that worked to get the comparison. I just think Lakers GM/Owners were the only one that tried wen their star player was mad and wanted help
Kobe Mad demands trade and help Owners get him Pau Gasol
Howard Mad demands trade and help owners Get him Gilbert Arenas---fail
Lebron asks for help owners get him Mo williems---fail
Lakers Gm is just smart thats it

Your Spelling and grammar------ fail

GREATNESS ONE
01-17-2012, 04:56 PM
[QUOTE=GREATNESS ONE;20593954]LOL I'm 30 years old and have watched every single minute of Kobe's career. Been watching basketball hardcore since the 80's. Please. I can go on and on about a million things that differentiate Kobe's and MJ's career and how a lot of things benefit MJ's. But I won't get into it with a kid:rolleyes: Just watch Kobe average over 20ppg the next 4-5 years;)


i know you wont get into that because its all ********, jordan played in a tougher era with handchecking and armbars, and with better bigmen in the paint. you can get snippy all you like, but nothing you said there has anything to do with my post, nothing. he still has to drop another 10000 points to catch kareem and he still has 4000 less points than jordan, while playing more games.

Ive been watching hardcore since the 80s? you were seven years old at best the the last year of the decade, who are you trying to fool.

bottom line is, whether it hurts your feelings or not, Jordan did everything better than Kobe, scored more, at a higher percentage, play better perimeter D, get more rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, win rings, awards,EVERYTHING.


LOL I don't know where you rambling is taking you. Not once have I said Kobe is better then MJ. Matter of fact all I said was Kobe and Jordan are great in their respected era:rolleyes: And Yea been watching Hardcore since the 80"s Been hooked on Basketball since I was 7-8(haven't missed a Lakers game in that span), watched all the classics I can get, even 70's basketball. Again you can sit there and talk all you want but 1 thing for sure is Kobe will go down as one of the greatest players to ever play this game. So enjoy your Heat bandwagon and your most likely "dupe account";) Mijo

GREATNESS ONE
01-17-2012, 05:00 PM
Its funny that Laker fans think I dog him, when all I do is give a rational perspective. Furthermore, I have done nothing but compliment him in this thread. Not one good thing I say about Kobe even gets picked up by you guys, but even the slightest criticism, and I get jumped on for it. Not that I care at all, I just find it interesting. If I cared, I would have just stopped posting on anything Kobe a long time ago.

:laugh2: Hawk, let's be real not until recently have you been not blasting Kobe. You're a knowledgeable fan and I know you're not trying to blast Kobe"anymore" But like I said I've been reading your posts for a loooong time. Anyway, we're probably never gonna get a long with this subject or come to any mutual understanding but I will carry myself with class and respect your opinion. Hope you have a great day sir:)

GREATNESS ONE
01-17-2012, 05:02 PM
[QUOTE=Heatcheck;20594141]

Their numbers are soo similar you are being to narrow minded making some of these claims like 5.3 to 4.7 for assisst or .8 to .5 for blocks. I mean you need to take into account they different schemes and teammates, such as Shaq change numbers.

Also, somebody said that Jordan did it when it was tougher to score because of hand checking and everything. Doesn't that work the other way to meaning it would be easier to block shots and get steals.

I don't get who you're talking too but I pretty much agree with everything you've stated:)

GREATNESS ONE
01-17-2012, 05:03 PM
MJ and Kobe, the two greatest perimeter players to ever play the game of basketball. lets leave it at that. No need to hate on one to make the other look better. Both were tremendously dominant and talented players. Both dominated their era like no other and both did it through hard work and dedication. Both were unstoppable scorers, deadly defenders, tremendous crunch time players, had flawless fundamentals and footwork and mastered every single aspect of the game of basketball.

:clap:

DaLakerz Rulz
01-17-2012, 05:19 PM
I have been a viewer of this site for well over 6 years and these threads always turn out the same, without fail. Kobe lovers make blanket statements that make no sense, and then you have posters like JordansBulls who upload essays about ORtg and Win Shares in proof of Jordan's supremacy. Jordan is the GOAT and most rational fans know this. There is no need to keep defending him and adding fuel to the fire. We get it, lets move on.

In my opinion these threads should be closed immediately or taken to the comparisons forum. Leave it out of the main NBA forum so there can be some meaningful discussion about the current season.

3RDASYSTEM
01-17-2012, 05:27 PM
Who wouldnt admire they MiniMe and give'em props?We all would do that off top He took/stole/copied/borrowed/leased his entire game-walk-talk-fistpump-jumping in air-wagging his tongue....the only thing JORDAN is pissed about is that KB quick claim to fame was taking JR RIDERS dunk and winning that contest in 97 or 98 and not doing it with that free throw line dunk like Airness himself...Nobody likes nothing original these days,just a bunch of recycled replica type ****

smith&wesson
01-17-2012, 05:58 PM
i wonder who had the better suporting cast through out their careers.

kobe
shaq
odom
gasol
bynum
glen rice
horry
fisher
fox

jordan
pippen
rodman
kukoc
h.grant
armstrong
oakley
harper
kerr
longley

i know theres more and im missing some but they both had some team mates its pretty tough to compare.

i think its a huge compliment if mj himself is saying this

smith&wesson
01-17-2012, 06:04 PM
obviously Jordan was better, but Kobe is the closest thing we have had to Jordan since Jordan left.

this


This is actually quite a compliment. The GOAT is undeniably one of the biggest egomaniacs in the history of the game (deserves to be). To even allow some comparison must mean how much he respects Kobe compared to everyone else.

this


As a Bulls fan Kobe is without a doubt the closest thing to Jordan since Jordan. Prob. why I am such a big Kobe fan cause I love watching him play with the takeover mentality and how he always wants the ball in closing seconds.

this


I agree!

Great to see that MJ gives Kobe the respect he deserves!

this


Who wouldnt admire they MiniMe and give'em props?We all would do that off top He took/stole/copied/borrowed/leased his entire game-walk-talk-fistpump-jumping in air-wagging his tongue....the only thing JORDAN is pissed about is that KB quick claim to fame was taking JR RIDERS dunk and winning that contest in 97 or 98 and not doing it with that free throw line dunk like Airness himself...Nobody likes nothing original these days,just a bunch of recycled replica type ****


why wouldnt you try to be like the best that ever played? theres nothing wrong with trying to emulate the goat.

3RDASYSTEM
01-17-2012, 06:24 PM
Thats one thing i noticed from PSD, everybody takes a part of they fav player career and compare it but wont compare they fav player entire body of work, but i will and thats where all this dominant **** needs to stop...pure dominating is done from day 1(WILT/MJ/MAGIC/AI/BIRD/AMARE/LEBRON/ALCINDOR/OSCAR), developing into a somewhat dominant person in NBA is cool also,KB could have proven his dominance early had he not pulled off his STEVE FRANCIS move and said he only wanted to play for LAKERLAND or maybe he knew he would score alot and not win so he wanted to go to surefire winner, either way he battled with JONES/VAN EXEL for minutes/starting spot and that to me speaks of no dominance..none,zippo

KB began to come into his own in 2000 when they reached they first FINALS and he got drafted in 1996, MJ came in league in 84 and dominated off top individually,he didnt wait til 1988 to showup or develop, SHAQ didnt become dominant when he left to LAKERLAND or did he? did they give him 130million for potential dominance? LEBRON came strait in and dominated,he didnt wait til 07/08 seasons to finally arrive, IVERSON got drafted in 1996 and won ROY and was MVP runner up his 4th yr and MVP his 5th....


thats wat i call dominant from day 1 and i dont want to hear he came strait out of highschool cause so did MALONE/KEMP/AMARE/DWIGHT/LEBRON/KG/HARRINGTON/J.O'NEAL and if any of those guys would have taken 3-4yrs to become dominant they would not nowhere near receive the false media hype/pub this guy gets or be up there high in history,can u imagine if KAREEM/BIRD/MAGIC/OSCAR/WILT would have taken 3-4yrs to figure it all out and dominate? KB avg 7,15 and 22ppg(3rd season) then 28ppg(4th)..people dismiss those numbers but i look at that the same like when Pippen came in and avg 7ppg as a rookie...so does that make him a better scoring version of Pippen? he doesnt rebound/pass/defend as well as PIPP,but he can shoot/score better than him pretty bad...

but most people on here will be like my homie and say KB been the best since 2000(just to think thats when he started fulltime,but he was drafted in 1996)...so i guess to KB fanatics he got drafted in 2000 and hasnt looked back...but last i check he working his 16th nba season...where are the other 4yrs go cause he sure didnt go to college? AMARE/LEBRON didnt take 4yrs to get going either and they came strait out HS..yea i know times were diff. when coming out of HS compared to now and then,but one thing that always prevails...the best players will play,especially in markets like LA/NY/CHI/TX, always...

MickeyMgl
01-17-2012, 06:26 PM
this is a serious comment?

you realize jordan AVERAGES 30 a game for his career, and this is with 2 years at 38 and 39 where he average like 20ppg factored in

You realize Bryant played with a dominant center that dominated many possessions and shots, and would have relegated even Jordan to 2nd-fiddle status had they been paired together?

Bryant's greater scoring explosions during his brief time on non-contenders should provide a glimpse of what would have been possible if he had played on the same teams against the same opponents as Jordan.

MickeyMgl
01-17-2012, 06:34 PM
Kobe was not a better scorer. I can't think of anything Kobe is better than MJ at outside maybe three's

Definitely threes, and Kobe was a much better ballhandler than Jordan, too.

MickeyMgl
01-17-2012, 06:39 PM
the only thing JORDAN is pissed about is that KB quick claim to fame was taking JR RIDERS dunk and winning that contest in 97 or 98 and not doing it with that free throw line dunk like Airness himself...Nobody likes nothing original these days,just a bunch of recycled replica type ****

Like Jordan did with that recycled free throw line dunk from Dr. J.

3RDASYSTEM
01-17-2012, 06:42 PM
When people say why not try and emulate the GOAT...its obvious ya neva played a lick of sports or competed ever in life....you can emulate but then all ya get is 'hes the closest thing to Jordan', yea i know he took all his ****...like duh,who is he supposed to look like the other ballers he say he idolized ...MAGIC/WEST?

Then when KB fans of his say he mastered MJ game so that makes him better,it takes 'dumbing down america on sports knowledge' to a whole another level...thats the dumbest **** i ever heard in life..take another mans **** and that makes you better or the closest thing to him..how about it make you a copycat/mirror image/wannabe

3RDASYSTEM
01-17-2012, 06:47 PM
Xactly MICKEYMGL, JORDAN let it be known that THOMPSON/DR J were his 'air' idols, while KOBE sticks his tongue out and post up and does everythang to the core of MJ but will always stick with MAGIC JOHNSON and J.WEST as his idols story....but i guess in america the 'replica' is equal to 'authentic'...

kobebabe
01-17-2012, 06:56 PM
ofcourse he is damn right

SereneAgression
01-17-2012, 07:12 PM
I agree kobe's the closest thing but in reference to the championships, I don't think anyone ever looks at Michael Jordan's and has the thought "Pippen or Rodman was responsible for these ships, or led the team to these ships." With Bryant there are at least 2 arguably 3 where one would say "He did not lead the team to these championships or, someone else (Shaquille O'neal) is the reason the team won these championships." That for me is the difference and what will give future or current players a chance to become closer, though I don't see anyone winning 5 anytime soon...

RaiderLakersA's
01-17-2012, 07:58 PM
Put it like this: somewhere there is a posh penthouse suite that Jordan occupies. Kobe came knocking. Jordan looked him up and down, and then let him in to the surprise of Jordan zeolots and equally fanatical Kobe haters alike. Now, Kobe may be seated waaaaaaaay on the other side of the room, but he's in the room. Jordan just said so.

That's more than can be said about any of Kobe's contemporaries. Or Jordan's for that matter. Rare Air, indeed.

Ray
01-17-2012, 08:08 PM
not to take anything away from Kobe, but I think Jordan played against much better competition overall throughout his career.

Ray
01-17-2012, 08:08 PM
not to take anything away from Kobe, but I think Jordan played against much better competition overall throughout his career.

JJ_JKidd
01-17-2012, 08:47 PM
obviously Jordan was better, but Kobe is the closest thing we have had to Jordan since Jordan left.

No its LEBRON! Or Durant! Or any other pretender who has won NOTHING SO FAR! :facepalm:

Zefflin
01-17-2012, 09:04 PM
not to take anything away from Kobe, but I think Jordan played against much better competition overall throughout his career.

That's weird because I think the opposite so...

RaiderLakersA's
01-17-2012, 10:08 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/michael-jordan-thinks-only-kobe-bryant-deserves-comparisons-222702003.html

TboneM3
01-17-2012, 10:13 PM
not to take anything away from Kobe, but I think Jordan played against much better competition overall throughout his career.

Umm, it's the exact opposite. But like Kobe said, Jordan did it first.

KB-Pau-DH2012
01-18-2012, 12:25 AM
I have been a viewer of this site for well over 6 years and these threads always turn out the same, without fail. Kobe lovers make blanket statements that make no sense, and then you have posters like JordansBulls who upload essays about ORtg and Win Shares in proof of Jordan's supremacy. Jordan is the GOAT and most rational fans know this. There is no need to keep defending him and adding fuel to the fire. We get it, lets move on.

In my opinion these threads should be closed immediately or taken to the comparisons forum. Leave it out of the main NBA forum so there can be some meaningful discussion about the current season.

Great post. :clap:

LakersEaglesLA
01-18-2012, 02:15 AM
Just wanna remind everyone here stating that Jordan is the greatest winner( HE IS NOT) Bill Russell and Magic Johnson are. Russell 11 time champ, Magic 5 time champ and appeared in 9 finals in his 12 years... Jordan was drafted in 1984 not 1991 which means he got his butt handed to him for 6 yrs. Soo sad most of you are too young to have watched 80s nba (The Greatest Decade In NBA History) NO RINGS UNTIL THE GREATS GOT OLD AND RETIRED!!

Heatcheck
01-18-2012, 11:21 AM
Just wanna remind everyone here stating that Jordan is the greatest winner( HE IS NOT) Bill Russell and Magic Johnson are. Russell 11 time champ, Magic 5 time champ and appeared in 9 finals in his 12 years... Jordan was drafted in 1984 not 1991 which means he got his butt handed to him for 6 yrs. Soo sad most of you are too young to have watched 80s nba (The Greatest Decade In NBA History) NO RINGS UNTIL THE GREATS GOT OLD AND RETIRED!!


Jordan played with the Detroit Tropics starting lineup, he didnt have 3 or 4 hall of famers on his team like magic, Russell or Bird until the 90s, and we all know what happend. matter of fact he only needed one hall of famer for three of those unlike those stacked teams Magic and Bird got to play on. But hey, at least you got to feel special about being old, GOOD FOR YOU!

Heatcheck
01-18-2012, 11:41 AM
[QUOTE=Heatcheck;20594141]


LOL I don't know where you rambling is taking you. Not once have I said Kobe is better then MJ. Matter of fact all I said was Kobe and Jordan are great in their respected era:rolleyes: And Yea been watching Hardcore since the 80"s Been hooked on Basketball since I was 7-8(haven't missed a Lakers game in that span), watched all the classics I can get, even 70's basketball. Again you can sit there and talk all you want but 1 thing for sure is Kobe will go down as one of the greatest players to ever play this game. So enjoy your Heat bandwagon and your most likely "dupe account";) Mijo


BURN!! you got me there buddy, oh how dare you call me a bandwagoner!! that stings!!

your not only full of **** for claiming to have been watching hardcore since the 80s although, like i said, you were 7 THE LAST YEAR OF THE DECADE, but your also corny as ****.

Watching replays of 80s games on Hardwood classics doesn't mean you were watching HARDCORE since the 80s, Buddy.

and I never said you claimed kobe to be better, but somehow me stating some facts about the points kobe needs to surpass Kareem (like i said, dont hold your breath) which you take as a given, and how Jordan was a far superior scorer compelled YOU to go on a rant about how your 30 and can talk all day about some differences..blah blah blah...guess what, EVERYONE KNOWS YOUR FULL OF DONKEY S.HIT. but at least your bi-lingual, so you got that going for you.

DoubleDragon
01-18-2012, 12:17 PM
Jordan played with the Detroit Tropics starting lineup, he didnt have 3 or 4 hall of famers on his team like magic, Russell or Bird until the 90s, and we all know what happend. matter of fact he only needed one hall of famer for three of those unlike those stacked teams Magic and Bird got to play on. But hey, at least you got to feel special about being old, GOOD FOR YOU!

Wow.
You're just an angry dude. Reading through your posts. You rip on everyone who remotely disagrees. Too old, not old enough. Remember where this thread's quote came from. MJ himself. I'm sure you know alot more than him and Kobe's a bum, blah, blah. You need a collective hug there angry guy. Here.:love:

Facts are facts. Kobe is great, MJ was the greatest. Mad respect to both. I'm 47, grew up in Chicago, then moved to L.A. I've seen both play (go ahead and rebutt me with a "congratulations for being old" comment here). As far as responding to the actual topic of this thread, very cool that MJ gives props to Kobe. He'll be missed in the game once he's gone.

Okay, ready with the angry snotty and insulting reply? Okay...GO!:up:

ManningToTyree
01-18-2012, 12:27 PM
He is the closest thing to MJ we have had

Heatcheck
01-18-2012, 12:52 PM
Wow.
You're just an angry dude. Reading through your posts. You rip on everyone who remotely disagrees. Too old, not old enough. Remember where this thread's quote came from. MJ himself. I'm sure you know alot more than him and Kobe's a bum, blah, blah. You need a collective hug there angry guy. Here.:love:

Facts are facts. Kobe is great, MJ was the greatest. Mad respect to both. I'm 47, grew up in Chicago, then moved to L.A. I've seen both play (go ahead and rebutt me with a "congratulations for being old" comment here). As far as responding to the actual topic of this thread, very cool that MJ gives props to Kobe. He'll be missed in the game once he's gone.

Okay, ready with the angry snotty and insulting reply? Okay...GO!:up:

no no, i snap on people who make condescending remarks like "I know your too young to know this" assuming peoples age or how much they watch the game or like that one knicks fan that said Gail Goodrich and Dale Ellis were much better than Wade said, "some of us are actually basketball junkies" and then say something stupid like kobe and iverson played in the early 90's, in a much tougher league, when there was handchecking, even though they both played after it was made illegal.

If you want to talk down to people for their opinions, or act like you know everything, make sure u actually have your facts straight, and dont just make stuff up. People want to get all snippy and then its "hey bro, chill out, why are you so mad?" when they get called out.

And you obviously DIDNT read my posts as you say you did. I give plenty of people credit for their opinions whether they disagree with me or not, as long as it has some logic to it and not "LOL, facepalm, thats ridiculous" or some ******** like that, including in this same thread. but you should know better, you read 2 posts and know exactly what going on.

Heatcheck
01-18-2012, 12:56 PM
Wow.
You're just an angry dude. Reading through your posts. You rip on everyone who remotely disagrees. Too old, not old enough. Remember where this thread's quote came from. MJ himself. I'm sure you know alot more than him and Kobe's a bum, blah, blah. You need a collective hug there angry guy. Here.:love:

Facts are facts. Kobe is great, MJ was the greatest. Mad respect to both. I'm 47, grew up in Chicago, then moved to L.A. I've seen both play (go ahead and rebutt me with a "congratulations for being old" comment here). As far as responding to the actual topic of this thread, very cool that MJ gives props to Kobe. He'll be missed in the game once he's gone.

Okay, ready with the angry snotty and insulting reply? Okay...GO!:up:

by the way, i dont remember saying that at all, i was responding to a post that said he was a better scorer than jordan. I guess if i dont praise him everytime i say something negative about him, im stepping all over his legacy.

Heatcheck
01-18-2012, 02:57 PM
Umm, it's the exact opposite. But like Kobe said, Jordan did it first.

sry, double post

Heatcheck
01-18-2012, 02:58 PM
Umm, it's the exact opposite. But like Kobe said, Jordan did it first.

and you base this off what?

Law25
01-18-2012, 03:25 PM
Big love from Mj. I dislike when people say Kobe copied Mj and bla bla bla SO WHAT!!!! lol. Mj said he paterned his game from Big O and Dr.J but put his own twist to it. Kobe said MJ wasnt even his favorite player at first it was Magic but when he knew he wasnt goin to be 6'9 like his father he began to practice Jordans moves becuase he had the same height and build. Jordan coping is overlooked becuase he surpased those he copied, but Kobe's will not be becuase MJ set the bar so high and his fans and sports writers pushed it up further to the point where they treat Pippen like he was 09's Trevor Ariza or 10's Artest.

Jordan was a great defenders, but if you watched his games you would clearly see alot of his steals were product of Pippens on ball defence. When Pippen pressured the ball and the players threw a desperate pass Jordan would play the lanes which in the boxscore shows up as a Jordan steal but Pippen did the work. Jordan's great at playing the passing lanes. Pippen made Jordans job easy, he was the better defender and Jordan was the better scorer. For those who still call bs on Pippens worth just look at Jordan teams pre Pippen and the first season after.

Jordan without Pippen
Regular season 84/85 - 38-44
Playoff - 1st rd lost 3-1 to Bucks

Regular season 85/86 - 30-52
Playoff - 1st rd lost 3-0 to Celtics

Regular season 86/87 - 40-42
Playoff -1st rd lost 3-0 to Celtics

Pippen gets drafted and you can argue Pippens indivisual numbers 7.9pts 3.8rebs 2.1ast 1.2stls, but what you cant argue is the Bulls regular season record jumped to 50-32 and that Jordan finaly made it out the first round losing to the Pistons 4-1 in the second round. You also cant argue that without Pippen Jordan never makes it to the Finals and never becomes the G.O.A.T. Pippen proved himself without Jordan. 29 year old Pippen on the 93-94 Bulls without Jordan was a bad call from conference finals averaging 22.8pts 8.3rebs 4.6ast 2.4stls for the playoffs.The following year lost again in the second round, and he had success with the Blazers soon after. Im not here discrediting the G.O.A.T What im doing is trying to put things in there proper perspectives.

Law25
01-18-2012, 03:43 PM
I also hate the Jordan never lost in the finals argument when people like to site Kobe's 2 loses or the recent Dallas butt kicking trying to dismiss Lakers tired legs. Jordan took a break after both threpeats and didnt even not once try to go for a fourth. You can put whatever plot you want with his breaks but they were breaks none the least. Thats one of the things I hated about him. I thought Jordans Bulls would break the hated Celtics string of champioships, but nooo Jordan took a break both times and I was pissed. Still am kind of lol

Ray
01-18-2012, 03:58 PM
Umm, it's the exact opposite. But like Kobe said, Jordan did it first.

I'll try and prove my point tomorrow with some stats/data to back up my statement if I remember. Wiki isn't working today lol

Supreme LA
01-18-2012, 06:12 PM
Great compliment coming from THE GOAT himself.

My fellow Laker fans, please calm down with your notions of Kobe being better than MJ. This is where you guys do nothing but draw hate from other members. You make yourself sound so young and lacking of knowledge. It's almost along the same lines as young kids today proclaiming Lebron as the best ever because thats all they've seen. If you've grown watching MJ and had a chance to watch Kobe's entire career, you would know how great MJ was and why there is a big difference.

MJ is the greatest and Kobe is the next closest thing to being a competitive and complete basketball player. It still doesn't mean Kobe measures up, nor does it mean Kobe is anywhere close to the player he was. Kobe is just closer than everyone else being compared to him, while others are so much further away.

It's impossible to have had a better career than MJ. You just can't do it.

beliges
01-18-2012, 09:39 PM
I also hate the Jordan never lost in the finals argument when people like to site Kobe's 2 loses or the recent Dallas butt kicking trying to dismiss Lakers tired legs. Jordan took a break after both threpeats and didnt even not once try to go for a fourth. You can put whatever plot you want with his breaks but they were breaks none the least. Thats one of the things I hated about him. I thought Jordans Bulls would break the hated Celtics string of champioships, but nooo Jordan took a break both times and I was pissed. Still am kind of lol

That argument is without merit. Its better to make the Finals and lose than not even get as far as the Finals. Magic went to the Finals 9 times in his career and thus far, Kobe has gone 7 times. MJ went there 6 times, and yes he didnt win them all but it speaks volumes of Magic's and Kobe's greatness that they can get to the Finals as many times as they did. But either way, yes MJ is the greatest of all time but not because he never lost in the Finals.

LakersEaglesLA
01-19-2012, 01:28 AM
Jordan played with the Detroit Tropics starting lineup, he didnt have 3 or 4 hall of famers on his team like magic, Russell or Bird until the 90s, and we all know what happend. matter of fact he only needed one hall of famer for three of those unlike those stacked teams Magic and Bird got to play on. But hey, at least you got to feel special about being old, GOOD FOR YOU!

Im 38 for your info and played HS and College BBall, which means I wasnt one of the kids who was cut and not good enough to make a team like alot of you internet athletes lol. Jordan only needed 1 hall of famer to win the first 3 because he played an old Laker team(Magic hiv positive) Phoenix, and Portland! Not one of those teams were GREAT they were 1 Championship series and DONE..And dont make an excuse abt his teams I dont see anyone making an excuse for Kobe, he had crap 2005-2008. Magic and Bird made Hall of Famers out of there teammates. Kobe's last 2 Championships teams had ZERO hall of Famers on it, AND he beat 3 Hall of Famers. Im sure I made my point; peace

LA_Raiders
01-19-2012, 02:41 AM
GOAT passing the torch... Wait 4 more years....

MickeyMgl
01-19-2012, 06:43 AM
When people say why not try and emulate the GOAT...its obvious ya neva played a lick of sports or competed ever in life....you can emulate but then all ya get is 'hes the closest thing to Jordan', yea i know he took all his ****...like duh,who is he supposed to look like the other ballers he say he idolized ...MAGIC/WEST?

Then when KB fans of his say he mastered MJ game so that makes him better,it takes 'dumbing down america on sports knowledge' to a whole another level...thats the dumbest **** i ever heard in life..take another mans **** and that makes you better or the closest thing to him..how about it make you a copycat/mirror image/wannabe

Well he didn't take his ball-handling and long-range shooting from Jordan.

MickeyMgl
01-19-2012, 06:50 AM
not to take anything away from Kobe, but I think Jordan played against much better competition overall throughout his career.

The 90s were demonstrably the weakest decade in the NBA in a long while. Just do the math. The league expanded by more than 25% in less than a decade. That means that by '96, when the Bulls were winning 72 games, they were playing about every fourth game against a franchise that had been around less than a decade - 8 years, to be exact.

It wasn't till about the turn of the millenium that the league had filled out most of that talent dilution with foreign players. In the late 80s and early 90s, the best NBA players were still almost exclusively American.

MickeyMgl
01-19-2012, 07:02 AM
Jordan played with the Detroit Tropics starting lineup, he didnt have 3 or 4 hall of famers on his team like magic, Russell or Bird until the 90s, and we all know what happend. matter of fact he only needed one hall of famer for three of those unlike those stacked teams Magic and Bird got to play on. But hey, at least you got to feel special about being old, GOOD FOR YOU!

Oh, you were so close to getting it. Hall of Fame stacked teams teams that Magic AND Bird played on. And they played each other three times. The Lakers also played against a stacked 76ers team, and a stacked Pistons team. Teams that were good enough to reach the Finals repeatedly.

The Bulls played against the '91 Lakers (only two HOFers by then, and one of them gimpy at that), the Trailblazers (only Drexler), the Suns (only Barkley), The Sonics (only Payton), and the Jazz twice (two HOFers, fewer than the Bulls).

You see, that "stacked" argument has another side to it.

Kinkotheclown
01-19-2012, 07:26 AM
obviously Jordan was better, but Kobe is the closest thing we have had to Jordan since Jordan left.

I don't agree. Kobe has arguably done more with less.
So MJ Better, maybe.
Obviously better, no

Fnom11
01-19-2012, 09:28 AM
I don't agree. Kobe has arguably done more with less.
So MJ Better, maybe.
Obviously better, no

MJ was obviously better in almost every regard that you can describe a basketball players skill's.

JordansBulls
01-19-2012, 10:07 AM
I don't agree. Kobe has arguably done more with less.
So MJ Better, maybe.
Obviously better, no

Kobe has not done better with less than MJ actually has. Kobe had a player who has more finals mvp's than he does and who has more MVP shares than he does.
MJ won 2 titles in 1991 and 1998 as the only allstar on his team. He led the team in PER and Win Shares every year in the season and playoffs and led the League Many times in both 7+ PER and 9+ Win Shares.

Kobe in none of the seasons the Lakers won the title has led the team in Win Shares on the season and at times not even in the playoffs or in PER. For instance the last 3 seasons from 2009-2011, Gasol led the team in Win Shares. In 2010 Gasol led the league in win shares in the playoffs. And Kobe has had an allstar on his team literally every year the Lakers won the title. So no, Kobe has not done more with less. He has had more to use to win and this is indicated by him having a teammate outproduce him.

quade36
01-19-2012, 10:18 AM
Kobe has not done better with less than MJ actually has. Kobe had a player who has more finals mvp's than he does and who has more MVP shares than he does.
MJ won 2 titles in 1991 and 1998 as the only allstar on his team. He led the team in PER and Win Shares every year in the season and playoffs and led the League Many times in both 7+ PER and 9+ Win Shares.

Kobe in none of the seasons the Lakers won the title has led the team in Win Shares on the season and at times not even in the playoffs or in PER. For instance the last 3 seasons from 2009-2011, Gasol led the team in Win Shares. In 2010 Gasol led the league in win shares in the playoffs. And Kobe has had an allstar on his team literally every year the Lakers won the title. So no, Kobe has not done more with less. He has had more to use to win and this is indicated by him having a teammate outproduce him.

Great post.... Using stats, better be careful though, some fans would say stats don't actually prove anything :)

natelpete
01-19-2012, 10:21 AM
Not a huge Kobe fan, but I can agree with this. Everyone else that could possibly be a comparison hasn't been in the league long enough or won enough titles.

Heatcheck
01-19-2012, 03:57 PM
Oh, you were so close to getting it. Hall of Fame stacked teams teams that Magic AND Bird played on. And they played each other three times. The Lakers also played against a stacked 76ers team, and a stacked Pistons team. Teams that were good enough to reach the Finals repeatedly.

The Bulls played against the '91 Lakers (only two HOFers by then, and one of them gimpy at that), the Trailblazers (only Drexler), the Suns (only Barkley), The Sonics (only Payton), and the Jazz twice (two HOFers, fewer than the Bulls).



You see, that "stacked" argument has another side to



The suns had Barkley of course, and 2 other 20ppg scorers who shot 50% from the field (Kevin Johnson who was also one of the best point gaurds in the league averaging a double double, and ceballos) the trailblazers had Drexler (your right there, the only really good player), Shawn Kemp was a Monster at the time 19 & 11 shooting like56% and and they had a plethora of outside shooters (Hawkins, the 6thman of the year winner in shrempf, and perkins).

Question: the sixers were stacked where? Mcadoo and Erving were 34+ by 1985, and were shadows of their former selves. Malone and Barkley were beasts and after that it trails off. the pistons had zeke and Dumars. Aguirre was good but you cant look at his body of work, especially that season and say he outplayed KJ or Ceballos, or hornaceck for that matter the years their teams went to the finals, and the rest were bunch of hackmen who used to foul people hard, Rodman wasn't hall of fame rodman yet by any stretch, i doubt you can call Laimbeer, Mahorn, Salley, or vinnie johnson, GREAT players. so how stacked were they really? It seems to me Bird and Magic were clearly on the 2 best teams in the league, by far.

Heatcheck
01-19-2012, 04:08 PM
sorry, dbl post again.

Heatcheck
01-19-2012, 04:09 PM
Im 38 for your info and played HS and College BBall, which means I wasnt one of the kids who was cut and not good enough to make a team like alot of you internet athletes lol. Jordan only needed 1 hall of famer to win the first 3 because he played an old Laker team(Magic hiv positive) Phoenix, and Portland! Not one of those teams were GREAT they were 1 Championship series and DONE..And dont make an excuse abt his teams I dont see anyone making an excuse for Kobe, he had crap 2005-2008. Magic and Bird made Hall of Famers out of there teammates. Kobe's last 2 Championships teams had ZERO hall of Famers on it, AND he beat 3 Hall of Famers. Im sure I made my point; peace

Congrats, you were tall enough to play hs ball and on one of the 300 college teams in the country, good for you big guy.

Notice the difference between Kobe's production and how far his teams got, and Jordans production and how far his teams got, when they had crap on their roster, its pretty significant.


And Kobe may not have had hall of famers but he had 3 7fters in a league devoid of bigmen, one of them pau which was top 3 in the league (big men). his teams were much more talented than every other teams and had a mismatch on everyone, so dont act like he had no primetime talent to work with

So no, you didnt make your point. you think you did, but your just so biased towards kobe you fail to recognize the contributions of his teamates who consistently bailed him out throghout those playoffs, when he would say F the offense and put up any ol shot he pleased, no matter how bad the look was.

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-19-2012, 04:25 PM
The 90's had a lot of talent, but it was spread across the league. There were at the most 2 good/great players on one team, and cow dung filling out the roster.

Most of the bigs that played in the 90's had no help.

Ewing played with NO ONE his entire career, and they were always considered one of the best teams in the east

Hakeem= No one except players who were out of their prime.

Robinson= Nobody

Mutumbo= Nobody

Mourning= Nobody

Shaq and Penny for 3 really good years.

It was like that across the league.

Even the great point guard/power forward duels were not on very good teams.

Payton was so overrated its ridiculous. Look at his numbers for his whole career. He is out shined by Chauncey Billups. No one ever call Billups one of the best point guards ever like they do Payton. Kemp was a high fly act with some good talent, but that team was only able to get to the finals once.

Malone and Stockton were great players, too bad they never had anyone around them. They should have made it out of the west more than twice out of the 18 years they played together.

The 90's was so weak, it allowed the Rockets to win two championships with one man.

There was one great team at that time. And we all know who that was

3RDASYSTEM
01-19-2012, 04:58 PM
LAW25, JORDAN didnt copy DRJ walk/talk/game, he was influenced by DRJ 'air/dunk' game, but JORDAN/DRJ game is not even close comparing like it is to KB/JORDAN, and MAGIC JOHNSON/J.WEST dont play like KB either, WEST/KB score so thats bout it on comparison and they both been to numerous FINALS playing for purp/gold

Its sad that KB admirers say hes the closest thing to JORDAN but dont mention he patterned his entire game/style, so wouldnt it be by default he would be closest thing to JORDAN, the NBA made so much $ off JORDAN that wouldnt it benefit from having a 'clone' to milk for next era after JORDAN?

Exit Ezail Enter Jellybean, im sure most PSD members wont know what im talking about but those who played and followed bball heavy will have no prob to decipher that

quade36
01-23-2012, 10:03 AM
The 90's had a lot of talent, but it was spread across the league. There were at the most 2 good/great players on one team, and cow dung filling out the roster.

Most of the bigs that played in the 90's had no help.

Ewing played with NO ONE his entire career, and they were always considered one of the best teams in the east

Hakeem= No one except players who were out of their prime.

Robinson= Nobody

Mutumbo= Nobody

Mourning= Nobody

Shaq and Penny for 3 really good years.

It was like that across the league.

Even the great point guard/power forward duels were not on very good teams.

Payton was so overrated its ridiculous. Look at his numbers for his whole career. He is out shined by Chauncey Billups. No one ever call Billups one of the best point guards ever like they do Payton. Kemp was a high fly act with some good talent, but that team was only able to get to the finals once.

Malone and Stockton were great players, too bad they never had anyone around them. They should have made it out of the west more than twice out of the 18 years they played together.

The 90's was so weak, it allowed the Rockets to win two championships with one man.

There was one great team at that time. And we all know who that was

Huh?????

Hakeem had Drexler for someone past his prime still averaged over 20ppts and also averaged over 37 minutes a game.

Knicks had Starks, Smith, Oakley, Larry Johnson, and McDanials during the 90s

Robinson had Sean Elliot and Dennis Rodman

Heat were bad. If you are going to talk about a Mourning team in the 90s, the Hornets in the early 90s, Larry Johnson, Mourning, Gill,

Phoenix had Barkley, Johnson, Marjele, Ceballos, and Dumas.

Seattle had Ricky Pierce, Eddie Johnson and Kemp to go along with Payton

Jazz also had Tyrone Corbin and Jeff Malone.

The early Blazers were stacked with Drexler, Porter, Kersey, Cliff Robinson, Rod Strickland and Buck Williams.

Cleveland and Indiana were great too.

Cleveland, Daugherty, Price, Nance, Ehlo, Gerald Wilkins

Indiana, Miller, Schrempf, Smits, Davis, Person

Even the Pistons, Lakers, and Celtics were still solid in the 90s even though their players were aging.


There were some really good teams in the 90s. Maybe in the late 90s when the league expanded teams were weak. You know the beginning of the Kobe era....