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sunsfan88
01-16-2012, 03:23 PM
Where does he rank among current centers?

Before everyone says "he's only good cause of Nash" please note that Gortat still up good numbers last season when Nash was injured and had 20 & 10 in the lone game this season when Nash didn't play. I mean then someone can easily say that Bynum sucks and he only gets his points because of the frequent double teams Kobe gets so Bynum has wide open looks because of that. Bynum & Gortat are both good regardless of Nash & Kobe.

Also Nash doesn't help Gortat on defense or rebounding so yea.

Dwight is obviously better. Bynum & Bogut may be a little bit better but both have significant injury history.

I know Nene is a tremendous offensive talent, and his rebounding is much improved, but how's his D at the C position?

Horford is out for months.
Lopez is out for ages.

Marc Gasol is probably better than Gortat as well.

So IMO you might have 3 or 4 that right now are "irrefutably" better than Gortat.

But where do you guys rank Marcin Gortat among all centers in the NBA? And where does he rank among centers in the West?

KB-Pau-DH2012
01-16-2012, 03:26 PM
We have to see consistency out of him. This is only the beginning for him, so I can't wait to see how his career takes off. Sadly, he'll only be playing with Steve Nash for 1 more yr, so I don't know how his production will be post-Nash.

DallasRainCloud
01-16-2012, 03:28 PM
Well the one game without Nash is a very small sample size so you can't say he can consistently play well without Nash. Ian Mahinmi had an 18 and 8 game earlier so based off that game can I say he is a top 10 PF? Gortat is a good player but having Nash really does help a lot. He is a top 10 center in the NBA though.

IndyRealist
01-16-2012, 03:29 PM
Gortat is really good. He was really good backing up Dwight, and he's been really good in Phoenix. Two years ago I would have moved Roy Hibbert for him. Not now though :)

As far as where he ranks? Eh, I'll leave that to someone else. But there's added value when you have a 14/8/2 starting center that shoots 60% AND is on an MLE deal. That's a steal, right there. How much did Nene get?

JPHX
01-16-2012, 03:32 PM
He currently leads the league in field goal percentage at 62%. He's not elite but he's a solid center. if a ur a team on the brink of contention and looking for that missing piece at the 5, Gortat is not a bad option. thats the best i can give him though.

Hellcrooner
01-16-2012, 03:34 PM
mmmm under ( in no order) :
Howard, Chandler, Horford, Noah, Marc G, Duncan, Bogut, Bynum,Lopez for sure.

Phenomenonsense
01-16-2012, 03:37 PM
Best Centers right now in order:

Cousins
Howard
Bynum

the rest.

Korman12
01-16-2012, 03:43 PM
I'd still go to say he's underrated because of where he's been in his career so far, but he's a more-than solid center.

I'd still have it:
Dwight
Bynum
Healthy Bogut
M. Gasol
Healthy Horford
Jefferson/Gortat

Then Monroe (consider him more of a PF), Cousins, and Hibbert - above slightly one-dimensional guys like Noah and McGee.

Rockice_8
01-16-2012, 03:48 PM
Tier 1:
Howard

Tier 2:
Horford
Lopez
Bynum
Bogut

Tier 3
Chandler
Noah
M. Gasol
Greg Monroe (Edit: I forgot about him he's still needs to prove it for a full year but so far so good)

Tier 4:
Gortat
Cousins
Hibbert

That puts Gortat around 9-10 ish. I like his game though, he's a fringe 3rd tier guy right now. Obviously doesn't have the post game to play with the top centers but plays hard (rebounding, put backs, defense) I see him like a Noah/Chandler type but maybe just not quite there. There are about 22 teams that would love to have him as their starting center.

sunsfan88
01-16-2012, 03:58 PM
Tier 1:
Howard

Tier 2:
Horford
Lopez
Bynum
Bogut

Tier 3
Chandler
Noah
M. Gasol

Tier 4:
Gortat
Cousins
Hibbert

That puts Gortat around 9-10 ish. I like his game though, he's a fringe 3rd tier guy right now. Obviously doesn't have the post game to play with the top centers but plays hard (rebounding, put backs, defense) I see him like a Noah/Chandler type but maybe just not quite there. There are about 22 teams that would love to have him as their starting center.
Your underrating him a lot.

This season Gortat scores 0.95 PPP on post-ups (22 plays)
Bynym - 0.93 PPP (61 plays),
Howard - 0.92 PPP (86 plays),
M. Gasol - 0.91 PPP (53 plays)
Noah 0.77 (13 plays)
Perkins 0.7 (20 plays)
Nene - 0.56 PPP (34 plays)
Chandler - 0.5 PPP (4 plays)
Jordan 0.0 PPP (2 plays)

sunsfan88
01-16-2012, 04:00 PM
Well the one game without Nash is a very small sample size so you can't say he can consistently play well without Nash. Ian Mahinmi had an 18 and 8 game earlier so based off that game can I say he is a top 10 PF? Gortat is a good player but having Nash really does help a lot. He is a top 10 center in the NBA though.
The whole "Gortat only gets his points off p'n'rs" may or may not be true, but who cares. Is Nash the only point guard in the league that can run a p'n'r? Pretty sure any PG worth a damn can run that play. And Gortat would still be effective. And he'd still play good D irrespective.

sunsfan88
01-16-2012, 04:03 PM
mmmm under ( in no order) :
Howard, Chandler, Horford, Noah, Marc G, Duncan, Bogut, Bynum,Lopez for sure.

Player - PER
Gortat - 23.2
Horford - 19.9
Lopez 2010/2011 - 19.3
Gasol - 19.2
Nene - 16.2

Yeah I think I will take Gortat.

ORtg-DRtg
Gortat +20
Horford +19
Gasol +11
Nene +2

WinShares per 48, Gortat is #1 among all of them too. Basically any advanced stat shows Gortat is the top performer among those names.
Lopez -2

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=gortama01&y1=2012&p2=horfoal01&y2=2012&p3=hilarne01&y3=2012&p4=gasolma01&y4=2012&p5=lopezbr01&y5=2011

smith&wesson
01-16-2012, 04:05 PM
howard
bynum
bogut
chandler
noah
nene
horford
lopez
cousins
gortat
hibbert
favours
perkins

5ass
01-16-2012, 04:09 PM
and people laughed when magic fans used to say he can be a top 10 center in the league if given the minutes.

bovice163
01-16-2012, 04:10 PM
I rate him very highly. He's a very skilled big man on both ends of the floor, and has an unmatched efficiency really.

Howard
Bynum
Horford
Bogut
Chandler
Hibbert
Gortat
Noah
Lopez
Nene

Swashcuff
01-16-2012, 04:12 PM
I had this very argument in a thread in the 76ers forum a couple weeks back. This was the order in which the posts went.


gortat wont make an all atar team.... hes like a 4th or 5th tier center.

duncan, p gasol, m gasol, bynum, perkins, aldridge, nene, al jefferson, and maybe even derrick favors and demarcus cousins. will all get that nod before gortat.


If Gortat is a 5th tier C then where does that leave Hawes? 10th tier? Gortat could potentially become a top 12 C this season I'd say he's 3rd tier at the very worst.


did anyone argue that gortat was better than hawes? we just dont want gortat. if gortat is 4th tier, then id prob say hawes was 6th tier.
wow... super homer in the house. ill do a little tier list, and for YOUR benifit, i wont even include the 4s who masqueraide as 5s like duncan and al jefferson.... and i wont include the high potential guys like.cousins, favors, and the rookies valenciunas or kanter.

1st:
Howard

2nd:
Bynum
Noah

3rd:
Nene
Bogut
M. Gasol
B. Lopez
Chandler

4th:
Hibbert
Mcgee
Okafor
Jordan
Gortat
etc.

keep in mind, that some of the young guys will probably jump in there, AND i didnt knclude the guys who play C as a secondary position. if i did include those guys the margin wouod be even wider, and gortat would have been pushed back to 5th or maybe 6th tier.

I really didn't both carrying on the convo since it really wasn't worth it in the very least.

Like I said before IMO he is a 3rd tier C and is only going to continue proving that as this season progresses.

MarchMadness31
01-16-2012, 04:16 PM
Hibbert has gotten a lot better this season and i'm continuing to see improvement as the season progresses.

Swashcuff
01-16-2012, 04:19 PM
Player - PER
Gortat - 23.2
Horford - 19.9
Lopez 2010/2011 - 19.3
Gasol - 19.2
Nene - 16.2

Yeah I think I will take Gortat.

ORtg-DRtg
Gortat +20
Horford +19
Gasol +11
Nene +2

WinShares per 48, Gortat is #1 among all of them too. Basically any advanced stat shows Gortat is the top performer among those names.
Lopez -2

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=gortama01&y1=2012&p2=horfoal01&y2=2012&p3=hilarne01&y3=2012&p4=gasolma01&y4=2012&p5=lopezbr01&y5=2011

I think we all need to be careful about ranking players based on such a small sample size of statistical production. Sure Gortat is great and he may continue ranking more highly than them all in these categories but we aren't even a quarter way through the season. Lets be careful not to hold stats as stone.

Rockice_8
01-16-2012, 04:24 PM
Your underrating him a lot.

This season Gortat scores 0.95 PPP on post-ups (22 plays)
Bynym - 0.93 PPP (61 plays),
Howard - 0.92 PPP (86 plays),
M. Gasol - 0.91 PPP (53 plays)
Noah 0.77 (13 plays)
Perkins 0.7 (20 plays)
Nene - 0.56 PPP (34 plays)
Chandler - 0.5 PPP (4 plays)
Jordan 0.0 PPP (2 plays)


I will admit I rarely get to see him being on the east coast but the few times I do I don't really get the feeling he's a dump it down to him and let him work kind of guy. I see him as the P&R, put backs kind of guy. I could be wrong though cause like I said don't watch him all that much. As you can see he only has 22 plays though so while effective at it he doesn't do it all that often like Bynum, Howard, Gasol those type of post centers.

sunsfan88
01-16-2012, 04:33 PM
Even if Gortat is a pick & roll type player, what's wrong with that?

The argument "Gortat only effective because of the pick & roll" is completely pointless because almost every PG in the NBA today runs the pick & roll a lot so I guess Gortat would be effective with every other team in the NBA.

If Bynum or Bogut or whoever aren't good enough pick & roll players, then its their loss.

BKdoubleStacker
01-16-2012, 04:42 PM
lovin him on my fantasy team...he is killing it

BallIsAll
01-16-2012, 04:48 PM
Where does he rank among current centers?

Before everyone says "he's only good cause of Nash" please note that Gortat still up good numbers last season when Nash was injured and had 20 & 10 in the lone game this season when Nash didn't play. I mean then someone can easily say that Bynum sucks and he only gets his points because of the frequent double teams Kobe gets so Bynum has wide open looks because of that. Bynum & Gortat are both good regardless of Nash & Kobe.

Also Nash doesn't help Gortat on defense or rebounding so yea.

Dwight is obviously better. Bynum & Bogut may be a little bit better but both have significant injury history.

I know Nene is a tremendous offensive talent, and his rebounding is much improved, but how's his D at the C position?

Horford is out for months.
Lopez is out for ages.

Marc Gasol is probably better than Gortat as well.

So IMO you might have 3 or 4 that right now are "irrefutably" better than Gortat.

But where do you guys rank Marcin Gortat among all centers in the NBA? And where does he rank among centers in the West?


Nene is a power forward. But I like gortat he's Pretty good

OshGoshKaBosh
01-18-2012, 07:04 PM
Best Centers right now in order:

Cousins
Howard
Bynum

the rest.


:laugh::laugh:

Cousins above Howard...that's just nonsense.

Lim
01-18-2012, 07:11 PM
he is a good rebounder and is one of the best centers that i ever seen @ doing PNR. definitely underrated

Iodine
01-18-2012, 08:49 PM
A thing I really like about Gortat is that he is effective in slow paced and fast offenses. He in the 7-9 range

JasonJohnHorn
01-18-2012, 09:41 PM
The Magic should have kept him and started him at PF. Dumb trade.

USMCLaker
01-18-2012, 09:46 PM
I like Gortat I think he is underrated due to his intangibles and he is a good hustle player.

justinnum1
01-18-2012, 09:47 PM
he's good

BigBongTheory
01-18-2012, 09:57 PM
Howard
Bynum
Gasol
Nene
Hibbert
Monroe

USMCLaker
01-18-2012, 09:59 PM
he is a good rebounder and is one of the best centers that i ever seen @ doing PNR. definitely underrated

Sig ouch!!! Be back in 15.

Raph12
01-18-2012, 10:42 PM
1. Howard
.
.
.
2. Bynum
.
3. Nene
4. Duncan
.
5. Bogut
6. M. Gasol
7. B. Lopez
8. Noah
.
9. Hibbert
10. Monroe
11. Cousins
.
12. Gortat
13. Chandler
14. Mcgee
15. Okafor
15. Jordan

sunsfan88
01-21-2012, 05:17 AM
Nene is a PF. How the hell is the 50 yr old Duncan better? And Gasol isnt nesscarily better than Gortat. I would say their about the same if not Gortat is better.

Gortat's a top 2 center in the West imo.

Fresno
01-21-2012, 05:33 AM
Nene is a PF. How the hell is the 50 yr old Duncan better? And Gasol isnt nesscarily better than Gortat. I would say their about the same if not Gortat is better.

Gortat's a top 2 center in the West imo.

The sad part is that you're right. :laugh2:

What happened to all the good C's in the West?

Seriously like a Top 5 of C's would be:

Bynum
Gortat
Gasol
Jordan
Jefferson????
Cousins????

I know the last 2 play a lot of PF too.


Damn.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-21-2012, 07:17 AM
top 10:shrug:

SaimuKala
01-21-2012, 10:54 AM
1. Howard
















2.Bynum
3.Cousins

sunsfan88
01-21-2012, 11:31 AM
Lol Cousins the 3rd best center in the NBA? The same guy who's been a headcase for Sacramento all season?

Thats funny.

wmudford
01-21-2012, 01:08 PM
Gortat is definitely playing like a top 5 Center this year. Only Bynum and Howard are playing better to be honest.

Lake_Show2416
01-21-2012, 01:58 PM
1. Howard
.
.
.
2. Bynum
.
3. Nene
4. Duncan
.
5. Bogut
6. M. Gasol
7. B. Lopez
8. Noah
.
9. Hibbert
10. Monroe
11. Cousins
.
12. Gortat
13. Chandler
14. Mcgee
15. Okafor
15. Jordan

great grouping of the levels of centers, only guy I strongly disagree with is Monroe being a top 15ish center cuz of his inflated stats on a team with no1

Sly Guy
01-21-2012, 02:08 PM
I was always impressed with gortat when he was on the magic. He was a more complete offensive player, a worse rebounder, but no slouch, a worse defender but why isn't?

All in all, he had a more rounded game than howard, but both were more than solid centers.

rapjuicer06
01-21-2012, 04:05 PM
The Magic should have kept him and started him at PF. Dumb trade.

I don't normally agree with a whole lot that you say, but I couldn't agree more with this. Gortat can shoot from the elbows. They would have been pretty damn good together

Lim
01-21-2012, 05:24 PM
1. Howard
















2.Bynum
3.Cousins

really? cousins is bad. only thing he is good at is rebounding, thats it

Iodine
01-21-2012, 05:58 PM
great grouping of the levels of centers, only guy I strongly disagree with is Monroe being a top 15ish center cuz of his inflated stats on a team with no1

On a team with no one no player should be able to have that good of efficiency that he has

Duncan = Donkey
01-21-2012, 07:50 PM
1. Howard
.
.
.
2. Bynum
.
3. Nene
4. Duncan
.
5. Bogut
6. M. Gasol
7. B. Lopez
8. Noah
.
9. Hibbert
10. Monroe
11. Cousins
.
12. Gortat
13. Chandler
14. Mcgee
15. Okafor
15. Jordan

how can Duncan be at 4 and Gortat be a 12. Thats crazy talk. Gortat has been way better than Duncan this year, and he's going to better going forward. Some of the other people ahead of him are baffling as well.

Iodine
01-21-2012, 08:17 PM
As a gigantic Timmy fan, Gortat has shat all over him so far. Hopefully Timmy can be a 18/9 guy in the playoffs, but so far he doesn't give a ****