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View Full Version : Why do I mostly/only see in Warriors trades Ellis and not Curry?



NetsPaint
01-15-2012, 09:32 PM
A lot of times with one of their guards being talked about as a trade piece people have said something like "trade Ellis and keep Curry to build for the future". I don't get it, Ellis is a great scorer AND a very good passer, can play either position, and is young. I'm not saying I think they should trade either of them, but this "youth" thing gets taken far a lot of time, Ellis is 26! Maybe people have a changed mind about it now with Curry's many injuries on the same ankle. I'd like to see them keep them, just wanted post about this and ask why people thought this way.

mdm692
01-15-2012, 09:51 PM
People perceive ellis as a chucker and kind of a cancer to the team when in reality he is one of the leagues best pure scorers and an underrated passer. But if the warriors wanted to trade either or it should be curry he can get you more assets in return.

Hellcrooner
01-15-2012, 10:00 PM
Age?

Teh fact Ellis IS a chuker?

NetsPaint
01-15-2012, 10:07 PM
Age?

Teh fact Ellis IS a chuker?
Curry is 23
Ellis is 26

The difference isn't by eight years or whatever.

He's not a chucker.

SMH!
01-15-2012, 10:09 PM
Age?

Teh fact Ellis IS a chuker?

people say ellis is a chucker, but when I watch him play I don't see a chucker, this man can flat out ball, stop hating on teh kid

NYKalltheway
01-15-2012, 10:15 PM
Monta Ellis is a beast... don't get the hate.

wizardsfan3
01-15-2012, 10:19 PM
Monta's a baller I'll give him that much. But, from the games that I've seen he's also a chucker.

bholly
01-15-2012, 10:21 PM
Because Curry is way better.

People can deny the word 'chucker' all they want, but that's what Monta is.

It isn't about skills, it's about his approach to the game. We all know he can hit great shots, and we all know he can pass. Unfortunately for us, instead of using his skills properly he tries to be a volume scorer, and throws up low efficiency shots at a sky high usage rate and really quite bad assist rate.

He's highly skilled, but has no idea how to take advantage of those skills and play as part of a winning team.

Curry is probably more skilled and understands the game. It isn't really close.

Kdirt
01-15-2012, 10:32 PM
Ellis is a tweener, not a pure PG and a small SG. Has trouble defending bigger 2 guards. SO naturally ppl talk about him in trades over Curry who has a pure stroke and is more adept to playing the pg position. If Ellis was 6'5, then he would be so dangerous.

I would prefer to trade Curry if trying to acquire a star to pair with Ellis, or trade Ellis to rebuild with Curry. Ellis is still young, but he was drafted out of high school. A lot of wear and tear already.

Sportfan
01-15-2012, 10:32 PM
Curry is on his rookie contract and will probably resign, Monta's defitantly gone after next season the fan base treated him like crap.

iFYouSeekAmy
01-15-2012, 10:33 PM
Ellis is the only reason why the Warriors are winning games / and are within games. Without him, there's no one to generate the same offense. I don't understand why people say trade one of them. Why not keep both?

KnicksR4Real
01-15-2012, 10:36 PM
Curry is a better PG. Ellis is a chucker, and is the most overrated player in the NBA today.

Kdirt
01-15-2012, 10:37 PM
Curry is a better PG. Ellis is a chucker, and is the most overrated player in the NBA today.

:facepalm:

bholly
01-15-2012, 10:38 PM
I can think of one who's more overrated.

Hellcrooner
01-15-2012, 10:50 PM
I can think of one who's more overrated.

i can think of many.
But ellis is definetly one of them.

Sactown
01-15-2012, 10:53 PM
I herd he likes mudkips

mavwar53
01-16-2012, 02:49 AM
Ellis is a tweener, not a pure PG and a small SG. Has trouble defending bigger 2 guards. SO naturally ppl talk about him in trades over Curry who has a pure stroke and is more adept to playing the pg position. If Ellis was 6'5, then he would be so dangerous.

I would prefer to trade Curry if trying to acquire a star to pair with Ellis, or trade Ellis to rebuild with Curry. Ellis is still young, but he was drafted out of high school. A lot of wear and tear already.

This pretty much says it all, and BTW Ellis is not a chucker, let me put it like this, Ellis career 46.7% FG shooter Kobe Bryant 45.5% for his career.

Ellis doesn't get the superstar calls so he misses out on going to the line on average 3-4 times a game at 75% that should move his scoring avg up to 27 for this season and it would improve his FG% cause those missed shots wouldn't count as shots taken.

The only downfall of ellis is he is like iverson, a hell of a player but too small to play the 2 which he is best fitted to play due to his style of play, therefore IMO he is more expendable.

I'd also love to see someone argue that Ellis is a chucker considering the facts of Kobe's career percentage vs. Ellis'.

Cal827
01-16-2012, 02:55 AM
I herd he likes mudkips

This.

Also Ellis is only 26?! Damn, I though he was pushing thirty lol

Monta is beast
01-16-2012, 06:08 AM
Curry is on his rookie contract and will probably resign, Monta's defitantly gone after next season the fan base treated him like crap.

This shows how little you know about Monta. He literally got the Warriors logo tatted on him. There is absolutely no way he leaves GS, the fans love him, he loves the fans.

abe_froman
01-16-2012, 06:11 AM
cuz he's younger,cheaper and has upside....though maybe the thinking should change since curry has all those ankle issues.also ellis while seen as a nice player,he isnt seen as someone you can build around

Monta is beast
01-16-2012, 06:13 AM
I think it's funny how people call Ellis a chucker. Comparing Ellis this season, to Wade's best season.

Ellis: 24 Points Per Game - 8 Assist Per Game - 3 Rebounds Per Game - 2 Steals Per Game

Wade: 30 Points Per Game - 8 Assist Per Game - 4 Rebounds Per Game - 2 Steals Per Game

Ellis is taking 22 shots a game, while Wade took 22 as well. And Wade gets allot more calls then Ellis does. He also had Shaq on his team at the time. I know Ellis isn't on Wade's level, but he is definitely a top 10-15 player in the game.

caddiemaster
01-16-2012, 06:33 AM
Have you ever heard Monte speak?
Does Stephen Curry own a moped?
Who you gonna trade?

ragee
01-16-2012, 06:34 AM
Is Ellis clutch? I have not seen many warriors game for a few years now...

bholly
01-16-2012, 06:48 AM
I think it's funny how people call Ellis a chucker. Comparing Ellis this season, to Wade's best season.

Ellis: 24 Points Per Game - 8 Assist Per Game - 3 Rebounds Per Game - 2 Steals Per Game

Wade: 30 Points Per Game - 8 Assist Per Game - 4 Rebounds Per Game - 2 Steals Per Game

Ellis is taking 22 shots a game, while Wade took 22 as well. And Wade gets allot more calls then Ellis does. He also had Shaq on his team at the time. I know Ellis isn't on Wade's level, but he is definitely a top 10-15 player in the game.

Right. Ellis took the same number of shots as Wade, but only scored 80% as much. Are you even sure which side of the argument you're on?

Wade had elite scoring efficiency (as shown, for example, by a very high true shooting percentage) and passed well and a lot (giving him a very high assist rate). These things (particularly the efficiency) justify shooting a lot. If you're putting up good shots, and passing when you should, then a high usage rate is totally justified - the more good shots you put up the better, even.
But Monta has neither of those things - bad shot efficiency and a career of assist rates that get nowhere near Wade's. When you're putting up low efficiency shots, putting up more is worse, so his high usage rate becomes horrible.
Monta's assist rate actually gets close to Wade's this season, as do his absolute assist numbers, but it's extremely lol using raw numbers from an 11 game sample size when he's played half the time without his PG. Let's see how his assist numbers look later in the season - I'm assuming they'll drop back towards his career averages.


This pretty much says it all, and BTW Ellis is not a chucker, let me put it like this, Ellis career 46.7% FG shooter Kobe Bryant 45.5% for his career.

Ellis doesn't get the superstar calls so he misses out on going to the line on average 3-4 times a game at 75% that should move his scoring avg up to 27 for this season and it would improve his FG% cause those missed shots wouldn't count as shots taken.

The only downfall of ellis is he is like iverson, a hell of a player but too small to play the 2 which he is best fitted to play due to his style of play, therefore IMO he is more expendable.

I'd also love to see someone argue that Ellis is a chucker considering the facts of Kobe's career percentage vs. Ellis'.

If you think Kobe only gets to the line more because of superstar calls, then I don't know what to tell you. Kobe is way better than Ellis (better than just about anyone) at drawing legitimate contact. Kobe also hits the FT far better than Ellis, hits the 3 better, and gets blocked a lot less - all of which make him more efficient but don't show up in FG%.

And even though Kobe dicks all over Ellis in terms of efficiency, even he gets called a chucker. At times in his career he has genuinely been one.

Seriously, if you guys want to bring stats, try bringing ones that actually mean something.

Also, if you don't think Ellis is a chucker, then who is? Who is there out there who you think is more deserving of the term 'chucker' than Monta?

Monta is beast
01-16-2012, 07:43 AM
Is Ellis clutch? I have not seen many warriors game for a few years now...

Yes. He almost single handedly beat the Spurs. No one else could make a shot to save there lives, and he kept them in the game the entire time. He also hit two game winning shots back to back last season.

Monta is beast
01-16-2012, 07:52 AM
Like someone said, Ellis doesn't get the superstar calls that Wade gets. He should get to the line at least 4 more times a game, which would raise his FG% and increase his scoring.

Monta has nearly the same assist to turnover ratio that Dwayne did. And this is all considering the fact, that this was Dwayne Wade's best season, by far. We don't even know that Ellis has had his best season yet. He is 26, right around when a player enters his prime.

And if you think Ellis is a chucker then tell me why he has a better FG% then Kobe? I mean you would consider Kobe an elite player right? Well Monta has a better FG%, more assist per game, and more steals per game.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-16-2012, 08:04 AM
I think it's funny how people call Ellis a chucker. Comparing Ellis this season, to Wade's best season.

Ellis: 24 Points Per Game - 8 Assist Per Game - 3 Rebounds Per Game - 2 Steals Per Game

Wade: 30 Points Per Game - 8 Assist Per Game - 4 Rebounds Per Game - 2 Steals Per Game

Ellis is taking 22 shots a game, while Wade took 22 as well. And Wade gets allot more calls then Ellis does. He also had Shaq on his team at the time. I know Ellis isn't on Wade's level, but he is definitely a top 10-15 player in the game.

lol regular stats are awful

Wade's best season ***** on Ellis.

Monta PER 18.7 TS% 58 WS/48 .232

Wade PER 30.4 TS% 49 WS/48 .049

Wade totally destroys monta:speechless::speechless:
Those numbers by Monta are terrible.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-16-2012, 08:06 AM
Like someone said, Ellis doesn't get the superstar calls that Wade gets. He should get to the line at least 4 more times a game, which would raise his FG% and increase his scoring.

Monta has nearly the same assist to turnover ratio that Dwayne did. And this is all considering the fact, that this was Dwayne Wade's best season, by far. We don't even know that Ellis has had his best season yet. He is 26, right around when a player enters his prime.

And if you think Ellis is a chucker then tell me why he has a better FG% then Kobe? I mean you would consider Kobe an elite player right? Well Monta has a better FG%, more assist per game, and more steals per game.

kobe shoots 47% while Monta shoots 40%, more assists cuz he is totally dominating the ball and playing over 40mpg...and steals are worthless stats they pretty much show you how much a players gambles on defense...and we know monta cant guard SGs to save his life.

Monta is beast
01-16-2012, 08:11 AM
kobe shoots 47% while Monta shoots 40%, more assists cuz he is totally dominating the ball and playing over 40mpg...and steals are worthless stats they pretty much show you how much a players gambles on defense...and we know monta cant guard SGs to save his life.

I'm talking about career percentages. And of course Ellis dominates the ball, like Kobe doesn't? And I'll give you the steals, but as far as shooting at a higher rate and getting teammates involved, Ellis is better.

latinofire21
01-16-2012, 11:43 AM
I'm talking about career percentages. And of course Ellis dominates the ball, like Kobe doesn't? And I'll give you the steals, but as far as shooting at a higher rate and getting teammates involved, Ellis is better.

You cant possibly be trying to compare Kobe 5 rings to Monta playoffs 1 time. Thats ridiculous.

Kobe can score at will. Monta is a volume shooter and not even close to as efficient as Kobe. This whole arguement with superstar calls is ludicrous. Kobe knows how to draw contact and he works on every facet of his game in the offseason. I am not even a Kobe fan but its disrespectful to even compare the two players.

Monta Ellis is quick as lightning and would be a great facilitator IF he wasnt such a ballhog. Right now his stats are inflated because Curry is out. The ball is in his hands the whole game so if he doesnt get those kind of numbers his team literally has no chance to win the game. What I dont understand is that you guys cut Ish Smith who I thought was pretty promising while Curry is injured in a condensed season. That made no sense.

Back to the subject - Superstar calls arguement is all based on opinion. The stats show that Kobe gets to the line because hes far more aggressive then Monta. The Laker offense is built around Kobe. Kobe is more efficient then Monta. Kobe is a top 10 talent and Monta is not even top 20.

If he was at the same level as Kobe it wouldnt be difficult to move him, Golden State wouldnt be saying Curry is untouchable but Ellis is available ect.

Monta is a premier chucker and isnt efficient at all so it makes it worse. You can even make a case that his clutchness is a result of his inefficient scoring throught the game, thus creating an event that requires a last second shot to win. I mean if we are using opinions as facts to formulate the case. He gets less superstar calls ect ect, If he passed the ball more during the course of the game the last second shot wouldnt be needed.

nycericanguy
01-16-2012, 11:57 AM
I think it's funny how people call Ellis a chucker. Comparing Ellis this season, to Wade's best season.

Ellis: 24 Points Per Game - 8 Assist Per Game - 3 Rebounds Per Game - 2 Steals Per Game

Wade: 30 Points Per Game - 8 Assist Per Game - 4 Rebounds Per Game - 2 Steals Per Game

Ellis is taking 22 shots a game, while Wade took 22 as well. And Wade gets allot more calls then Ellis does. He also had Shaq on his team at the time. I know Ellis isn't on Wade's level, but he is definitely a top 10-15 player in the game.

You just made my point for why Ellis is a chucker. He can score, but he takes a TON of shots to get those points.

This season he's scoring 23.7ppg, but he needs over 21FGA pg to do it! That is really bad efficiency.

Look at some of the other great scorers in the league.

Melo 25.5 on 19.5fga
Durant 25.8 on 17.8fga
Lebron 29.5 on 18.7fga

Now granted Ellis is not on their level, but even the second tier scorers do a much better job.

ray allen 17.5ppg on 11.5fga
Gallo 17ppg on 11.7fga
Harden 17.4ppg on 10.2fga

those are just guys off the top of my head, but the point is Ellis needs alot more shot attempts to score than most guys.

and saying "well Ellis should get more calls and more FT's" is kinda silly, Gallo isnt a superstar, there are alot of guys that arent superstars that are much more efficient, blaming Ellis's inefficiency on the refs is pretty low.

Ellis compares to a guy like Beasely, who scores alot but needs a ton of shots to do so.

Beasely last year 19.2ppg on 17.1fga

those guys dont really help you win IMO. spread those 17fga around to other players and you're much more likely to get alot more than 19.2ppg out of those shots.

mavwar53
01-16-2012, 12:11 PM
Right. Ellis took the same number of shots as Wade, but only scored 80% as much. Are you even sure which side of the argument you're on?

Wade had elite scoring efficiency (as shown, for example, by a very high true shooting percentage) and passed well and a lot (giving him a very high assist rate). These things (particularly the efficiency) justify shooting a lot. If you're putting up good shots, and passing when you should, then a high usage rate is totally justified - the more good shots you put up the better, even.
But Monta has neither of those things - bad shot efficiency and a career of assist rates that get nowhere near Wade's. When you're putting up low efficiency shots, putting up more is worse, so his high usage rate becomes horrible.
Monta's assist rate actually gets close to Wade's this season, as do his absolute assist numbers, but it's extremely lol using raw numbers from an 11 game sample size when he's played half the time without his PG. Let's see how his assist numbers look later in the season - I'm assuming they'll drop back towards his career averages.



If you think Kobe only gets to the line more because of superstar calls, then I don't know what to tell you. Kobe is way better than Ellis (better than just about anyone) at drawing legitimate contact. Kobe also hits the FT far better than Ellis, hits the 3 better, and gets blocked a lot less - all of which make him more efficient but don't show up in FG%.

And even though Kobe dicks all over Ellis in terms of efficiency, even he gets called a chucker. At times in his career he has genuinely been one.

Seriously, if you guys want to bring stats, try bringing ones that actually mean something.

Also, if you don't think Ellis is a chucker, then who is? Who is there out there who you think is more deserving of the term 'chucker' than Monta?

Exactly don't go by the FG% stats that I gave you ellis shoots 1.2% better for his career than Kobe, this is the all time dumbest argument anyone has given me.

RipCity32
01-16-2012, 12:35 PM
I like Ellis I don't know why he's always talked about in trades

kenzo400
01-16-2012, 01:32 PM
Curry is 23
Ellis is 26

The difference isn't by eight years or whatever.

He's not a chucker.

This says differentely. He really does not know when to stop shooting. The problem is also that he is terribly inconsistent. He will have a great game, 50% shooting 30 points followed by crap like 6 of 27, with 15 points, where he just terribly hurts his team. Ellis is a cancer.



http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=320114030

NYKalltheway
01-16-2012, 02:37 PM
the best example for a chucker is Toney Douglas
when you make a lot of those shots, and some of them clutch, some of them really hard, then you're not on the same league as T Douglas. That's what I call a chucker, Monta is far better than that, he's a 2nd tier star in my books. Just never had a coach to sit down with him and help him improve his ingame awareness imo.

MackShock
01-16-2012, 04:10 PM
Curry is on his rookie contract and will probably resign, Monta's defitantly gone after next season the fan base treated him like crap.

you obviously know nothing of the warriors. the fans love him, and want him to stay. we were mad at anklegate but never wanted him gone.

MackShock
01-16-2012, 04:12 PM
Curry is a better PG. Ellis is a chucker, and is the most overrated player in the NBA today.


I can think of one who's more overrated.


HE HASNT EVEN MADE AN ALL STAR GAME YET.

Id say he's more underrated. Never gets the recognition that he deserves.

Monta shoots alot but so does Curry. Even more so than Monta. So is Curry a chucker?

Monta is actually passing more now. averaging 7.7 assists which is way up from last year

asandhu23
01-16-2012, 04:15 PM
HE HASNT EVEN MADE AN ALL STAR GAME YET.

Id say he's more underrated. Never gets the recognition that he deserves.

Monta shoots alot but so does Curry. Even more so than Monta. So is Curry a chucker?

Monta is actually passing more now. averaging 7.7 assists which is way up from last year

Nah! That number is only up because Curry isn't playing. Let's all make excuses to not give Ellis respect until he joins one of our favorite teams.

MackShock
01-16-2012, 04:22 PM
Look at some of the other great scorers in the league.

Melo 25.5 on 19.5fga
Durant 25.8 on 17.8fga
Lebron 29.5 on 18.7fga



these guys go to the line way more than ellis. that means FGA goes down, and points go up.

therefore if monta went to line the 4 more times per game, he would be around 26/27 points and his FGA would be 17/18..

so you really cant say superstar calls dont make a difference

and if you say guys like gallo isnt a superstar, true, but the guy is 6'10 and will get calls when penetrating

smith&wesson
01-16-2012, 04:22 PM
i think you keep them together. trade off the rest off the team for a really good big man.

lmeas11
01-16-2012, 04:53 PM
Monta Ellis is awesome! Everyone else is just a hater calling him a choker. Or chucker, or whatever the hell you guys are talking about.

He continues to get better every year. His passing game especially.

And wasn't he the leading 2 guard in points assist and steals last season?

Considering his supporting cast.....? He ain't no chucker/choker.

bholly
01-16-2012, 05:09 PM
Exactly don't go by the FG% stats that I gave you ellis shoots 1.2% better for his career than Kobe, this is the all time dumbest argument anyone has given me.

I considered them, and then I explained to you why Kobe is more efficient despite that - namely he hits threes better, gets to the line better, and hits free throws better. What's the problem?


HE HASNT EVEN MADE AN ALL STAR GAME YET.

Id say he's more underrated. Never gets the recognition that he deserves.

Monta shoots alot but so does Curry. Even more so than Monta. So is Curry a chucker?

Monta is actually passing more now. averaging 7.7 assists which is way up from last year

No. A chucker is someone who is inefficient but just keeps shooting and shooting anyway - it isn't just anyone who shoots a lot.
Curry puts up high efficiency shots - almost a 60% true shooting percentage last year - and hits the three really well. When you're an elite shooter putting up high efficiency shots, the more you put up the better. By putting up high efficiency shots, you help your team win. He also has a great assist rate (suggesting he looks to make the pass when he should, rather than just shoot for his own numbers).
Monta, on the other hand, is hugely inefficient as detailed above. The more poor efficiency shots you put up, the more you hurt your team. He keeps putting up poor shot after poor shot - the definition of a chucker.

Funny how you guys get so upset and argue so much about this chucker thing when you don't even really know what chucker means. It's someone putting up bad shots, not just anyone putting up shots.


these guys go to the line way more than ellis. that means FGA goes down, and points go up.

therefore if monta went to line the 4 more times per game, he would be around 26/27 points and his FGA would be 17/18..

so you really cant say superstar calls dont make a difference

and if you say guys like gallo isnt a superstar, true, but the guy is 6'10 and will get calls when penetrating

Going to the line more isn't just evidence of getting superstar calls. A large part of it is they draw contact and earn their way to the line more. Getting to the line less is an argument against Monta's game, not an argument in favor of it.

iliketurtles24
01-16-2012, 05:39 PM
Right. Ellis took the same number of shots as Wade, but only scored 80% as much. Are you even sure which side of the argument you're on?

Wade had elite scoring efficiency (as shown, for example, by a very high true shooting percentage) and passed well and a lot (giving him a very high assist rate). These things (particularly the efficiency) justify shooting a lot. If you're putting up good shots, and passing when you should, then a high usage rate is totally justified - the more good shots you put up the better, even.
But Monta has neither of those things - bad shot efficiency and a career of assist rates that get nowhere near Wade's. When you're putting up low efficiency shots, putting up more is worse, so his high usage rate becomes horrible.
Monta's assist rate actually gets close to Wade's this season, as do his absolute assist numbers, but it's extremely lol using raw numbers from an 11 game sample size when he's played half the time without his PG. Let's see how his assist numbers look later in the season - I'm assuming they'll drop back towards his career averages.



If you think Kobe only gets to the line more because of superstar calls, then I don't know what to tell you. Kobe is way better than Ellis (better than just about anyone) at drawing legitimate contact. Kobe also hits the FT far better than Ellis, hits the 3 better, and gets blocked a lot less - all of which make him more efficient but don't show up in FG%.

And even though Kobe dicks all over Ellis in terms of efficiency, even he gets called a chucker. At times in his career he has genuinely been one.

Seriously, if you guys want to bring stats, try bringing ones that actually mean something.

Also, if you don't think Ellis is a chucker, then who is? Who is there out there who you think is more deserving of the term 'chucker' than Monta?
michael beasley and its not even close!
mi

Lloyd Christmas
01-16-2012, 06:16 PM
These threads are the best.

bholly
01-16-2012, 06:34 PM
michael beasley and its not even close!
mi

great example because it actually makes the point. Beasley is pretty much universally agreed to be a huge chucker...but he's only slightly less efficient than Monta and his usage rate and shots per minute are no higher than Monta's.

if Beasley is the #1 example of a chucker, then it's pretty tough to argue that Monta isn't one at all given how similar their numbers are.

iFYouSeekAmy
01-16-2012, 06:52 PM
@Lloyd
LOL yup. I love reading these Ellis threads. Goes to show people just bash on Ellis with the same arguments.

Sure Ellis shoots a lot, but give me one person who should be taking shots. Curry is out, DWright is having the Biedrins effect, and no one besides Lee can create their own shot and score. As stated in the previous posts, Ellis has been passing more, averaging like 8 assists a game. He should be getting more since no one is making their shots. You can say that Ellis shouldn't take shots, rather pass the ball more. If you watch the games, he sets up his teammates on almost every possession, but they cannot finish.

Additionally, Ellis shoots the ball more in the 4th quarter than the first 3. He keeps the Warriors in the games and takes over. LOL nobody can generate the same type of offense. Even Mark Jackson knows that, and constantly wants Ellis to have the ball more in the 4th. Funny how using stats to bash Monta is far different from watching him play.

As much as I love these threads, can someone please make a Kings thread? I may sound like CED to a less radical extent, but i'm sure everyone would LOVE to see his posts.

MackShock
01-16-2012, 07:33 PM
No. A chucker is someone who is inefficient but just keeps shooting and shooting anyway - it isn't just anyone who shoots a lot.
Curry puts up high efficiency shots - almost a 60% true shooting percentage last year - and hits the three really well. When you're an elite shooter putting up high efficiency shots, the more you put up the better. By putting up high efficiency shots, you help your team win. He also has a great assist rate (suggesting he looks to make the pass when he should, rather than just shoot for his own numbers).
Monta, on the other hand, is hugely inefficient as detailed above. The more poor efficiency shots you put up, the more you hurt your team. He keeps putting up poor shot after poor shot - the definition of a chucker.

Funny how you guys get so upset and argue so much about this chucker thing when you don't even really know what chucker means. It's someone putting up bad shots, not just anyone putting up shots.


By your definition, I dont think Ellis is a chucker. Besides, no one else is going to take shots on his team besides Curry, who's injured, and Wright, who hasnt found his touch. It's true, he is passing the ball way more and is looking for open guys..but more times than not they cant do anything with it so Monta has to do it himself.

And a true definition of a chucker is JR Smith..not Monta. He is simply unconscious when it comes to that.
While your points are valid, you can't discredit the fact that Monta is having a career year in assists, and he doesnt just throw up stupid shots. If it were completely true, he wouldve launched it at the end of regulation vs the Heat, rather than looking for options, and just had a mental lapse at the very end. If it were JR Smith I guarantee he would've launched it.

So at the very very least, you can say that Monta is trying to change that.

And yes, Monta draws contact too, everyone who penetrates does. And a superstar call is getting those calls vs not getting those calls. It's completely false to say that Kobe simply gets more calls because he draws legit contact every time he drives in, and that Monta NEVER draws contact, which is why he doesnt get calls. FACT: Everyone who drives in will likely draw contact a good amount of the time.

As soon as Kobe goes "OHHHH" there is a whistle blown. and after most plays where Kobe doesnt get the call you see him giving an earful to the officials..Monta doesnt really do that.

Lloyd Christmas
01-16-2012, 07:50 PM
If people don't think Ellis draws contact when he drives they don't watch the Warriors play. That's all I'll say.

MackShock
01-16-2012, 07:53 PM
^ Yes...I agree.

Most people on here I would assume doesnt watch many Warriors basketball games...but I could be wrong. But then they should know Ellis draws contact but not fouls

bholly
01-16-2012, 07:53 PM
JR Smith is another example that proves the point. He's been a more efficient scorer than Monta in each of the last 5 seasons (higher true shooting %, higher effective FG%, much better from 3), and he too shoots less per minute and has a lower usage rate than Monta. If JR Smith is a chucker, Monta is a chucker.

And Curry being down and Wright not finding his groove, etc, is a legitimate point, but it isn't everything - I'm purposefully focussing on past season numbers because this season is a ridiculously small sample size at this point.

Again, he's having a career year in assists, but the year is like 12 games old. Lets not go crazy until we've given him a chance to revert to the mean. You also need to recognize that part of that is because of the increase in just how much the offense is running through him with Curry sidelined, etc - amongst guards playing 20+ minutes per game his assist rate (a much more accurate measure of how well and how often he's passing) is only 38th, and his assist to turnover ratio is 42nd. Again, let's not get too crazy about this assists thing.

bholly
01-16-2012, 07:56 PM
If people don't think Ellis draws contact when he drives they don't watch the Warriors play. That's all I'll say.

If you're referring to me, well I watch them plenty, and I never said Ellis doesn't draw contact - I just said Kobe is elite at drawing fouls and Ellis isn't quite as good, so their difference in free throw rates isn't just 'superstar' calls.

Monta is beast
01-16-2012, 07:56 PM
I think Warriors fans would no more about their players then anyone else. Believe me, Ellis gets hacked every time he drives to the rim, but hardly ever gets to the line. It's a joke.

Monta is beast
01-16-2012, 07:57 PM
If you're referring to me, well I watch them plenty, and I never said Ellis doesn't draw contact - I just said Kobe is elite at drawing fouls and Ellis isn't quite as good, so their difference in free throw rates isn't just 'superstar' calls.

So what your saying is Ellis doesn't scream and cry about every call?

Kdirt
01-16-2012, 07:59 PM
Ellis' mid range game is nearly unstoppable at this point in his career and hes finally playing like a true top tier player by distributing the ball as well as taking better shots. Was Ellis a chucker before, sure he was, and he may even hoist up a lot of shots now, but that is not necessarily a bad thing when your team down right sucks and has no one that can create their own shot on the team, i mean no one.

MackShock
01-16-2012, 08:11 PM
The difference is, Monta creates his own shot, and he is the number one option on the team. JR Smith isnt. He was easily 4th option behind Melo, Billups, and Nene..and he still threw up 13 shots a game.

lmeas11
01-16-2012, 09:11 PM
If people don't think Ellis draws contact when he drives they don't watch the Warriors play. That's all I'll say.

Word!

MackShock
01-16-2012, 10:21 PM
yeah..oh well.

Blazers#1Fan
01-16-2012, 10:34 PM
I'd Give Up Batum,Felton,picks for Ellis, Curry idk what i'd give up for curry

MackShock
01-16-2012, 10:58 PM
no way man..we want LA ;)

Daze9900
01-16-2012, 11:22 PM
Problem is Ellis needs to go and Curry's injuries should be of concern. When Ellis is on he is an elite scorer and is nearly unguardable but he also jacks up alot of ill advised shots.

MackShock
01-16-2012, 11:47 PM
^ Ellis is passing alot more now..i think hes trying to prove he can be an effective point guard as well.

MSG34
01-17-2012, 09:38 AM
Especially considering Curry could become the next Brandon Roy.

asandhu23
01-17-2012, 01:31 PM
Especially considering Curry could become the next Brandon Roy.

Jimmer Fredette literally broke Curry's ankles.