PDA

View Full Version : Did Deron Williams and Carlos Boozer flourish because of Jerry Sloan?



JordansBulls
01-12-2012, 12:42 PM
Did Deron Williams and Carlos Boozer flourish because of Jerry Sloan?

You look at these guys now in NJ and Chicago and they don't seem to be the same players anymore. Like on the same level they once were. Neither of them are old, so age can't be used as an excuse, so do you think it is the system they are playing under in both NJ and Chicago on why they can't dominant like they did in Utah or do you think it was Sloan's tutelage that aided under that Flex Offense? Or just some other reasons?

Thoughts!!

nycericanguy
01-12-2012, 12:46 PM
I think Sloan helped them more than we thought. Deron has simply not been the same player since coming to NJ, not just this year, last year he shot 34% for them as well.

Boozer was solid last year but he has regressed alot this year, he's been a 12-13ppg player this year, very average.

jimbobjarree
01-12-2012, 12:51 PM
The system was built around Boozer, he had all the tools to make him a success, including a pass first point guard. He just doesn't have that in Chicago. Although, their team with him playing a lesser role has looked more successful than when he was a team's leading scorer, so you can't argue with that.

Deron, IDK. He hasn't looked the same shooting the ball since that wrist injury last season. I'm starting to think we traded NJ damaged goods. I have every faith his ability is still there though, the losing in NJ just takes it out of you. I hope he doesn't end up like Devin Harris, who has lost pretty much all the ability he had in Dallas, and has openly admitted losing in NJ took the joy out the game for him.

pacofunk64
01-12-2012, 12:53 PM
I think for sure it's the system. They fed off each other great. DRose is a scoring pg first then passer and the offense runs thru him. Williams simply doesn't have much talent around him right now...but he needs to step up his game and make the players around him better.

Baller1
01-12-2012, 01:06 PM
Kinda seems like it to be honest.

Jimbob basically summed it up perfectly though; while losing and having lesser roles might have its affect, losing is probably a huge reason for Williams' regressions as far as I'm concerned.

But yes, I think they're both missing Sloan a lot. He was taken for granted; that guy was possibly the greatest coach of all time in my opinion.

JoeyDubb23
01-12-2012, 01:20 PM
To me its simple..


1. Boozer was overrated coming out of utah. (actually always overrated)

2. The trade to the nets pissed Deron off and he hasnt played with the same intensity and fire since.

rapjuicer06
01-12-2012, 01:27 PM
I think they flourished off each other. Boozer and D-Will went well together.

ILMindState
01-12-2012, 01:45 PM
I wouldn't say its all Sloan necessarily. Boozer was putting up better numbers pre-Sloan in Cleveland while playing with LeBron who has a similar game to Rose. :shrug:

ILMindState
01-12-2012, 01:46 PM
But yes, I think they're both missing Sloan a lot. He was taken for granted; that guy was possibly the greatest coach of all time in my opinion.

I think Sloan is a great coach, but I think the guy that beat him twice in the finals is better.

Nick O
01-12-2012, 01:48 PM
possible sloan was a great coach.. best ever not to win the big one imo..

kyubi256
01-12-2012, 01:49 PM
Deron has to do too much for the Nets. In Utah he was the star but he usually did not have to do more than he was asked. He wasn't the guy who normally had to take the last shot. He'd get the ball but can distribute it to guys he trusted.

In NJ, he doesn't have that. He has to take like 20 shots a game at times. That's the problem

uptown0364
01-12-2012, 01:49 PM
I think Sloan is a great coach but I think great players can put up numbers under any coach if they are truly great. Obviously we're talking about two good players here. I think Williams is getting exposed in NJ.

Bravo95
01-12-2012, 01:57 PM
Sloan is probably the most underrated coach in history. Got the most out of his teams and the system was great for D-Will and Boozer.

sep11ie
01-12-2012, 02:15 PM
Look at the difference in teams.

Cal827
01-12-2012, 02:17 PM
System for Boozer. Kinda Reminds me of Bosh here in Toronto. The only difference, is that Bosh still plays at an all star level with the other superstars... Boozer seems to have fallen off completely.

I think Deron has given up on that team to be honest. Until they Get Howard, I doubt he'll go at 100%. It's amazing that this ***** ended Sloan's coaching career (at least for now).

Baller1
01-12-2012, 02:20 PM
I think Sloan is a great coach, but I think the guy that beat him twice in the finals is better.

Phil Jackson is the most overrated coach of all time.

JordansBulls
01-12-2012, 02:21 PM
Look at the difference in teams.

If you can't perform well on a bad team, then you aren't a great player. Doesn't make sense to say you do well on a good team, but when on a bad team you play horrible. You should even be better. I can understand maybe in Boozer's case his numbers going down on a better team, but that shouldn't be the case with Deron on a worse team.

Nick O
01-12-2012, 02:22 PM
Phil Jackson is the most overrated coach of all time.

its hard to overate 11 titles

hgtiger32
01-12-2012, 02:27 PM
Look at who Deron Williams gets to play with. Pathetic. He's leaving NJ after the season. They won't get Dwight. They'll be left with nothing...

Rockice_8
01-12-2012, 02:38 PM
Boozer was made by Deron and his play making ability and Rose isn't that type of player. Deron doesn't look as good cause Lopez is out and he doesn't have anyone to finish for him. Therefore both don't look as good.

kozelkid
01-12-2012, 02:45 PM
Sloan was an offensive mastermind. For what Thibs is on defense, that's Sloan on offense. With all that said, there are other factors as well. I can't say anything about Deron since I've hardly watched him as a Net.

In regards to Boozer, while Deron runs the pick and roll better than Rose, Boozer also had the luxury of playing with a guy like Okur who spread the floor and gave Boozer plenty of room to operate in the paint. I don't think people realize just how much of a positive impact Okur had on Boozer's game offensively. It's obviously much harder when he has to play alongside Noah, Taj and Omer, none of whom are capable of spreading the floor.

Rockice_8
01-12-2012, 02:47 PM
If you can't perform well on a bad team, then you aren't a great player. Doesn't make sense to say you do well on a good team, but when on a bad team you play horrible. You should even be better. I can understand maybe in Boozer's case his numbers going down on a better team, but that shouldn't be the case with Deron on a worse team.


I honestly don't get this notion eveyone has about bad teams. Playing on good teams absolutely helps your game whether it's from good ball movement, having a star that draws attention away from you, whatever it may be.

Being on a bad team and being one of the few good players you're gonna get all the defensive attention. Now if your drop 20 ppg shooting 40% that's one thing but if your efficient on a bad team then I find that more impressive then being just as efficient on a good team.

Hustlenomics
01-12-2012, 02:51 PM
Deron Williams is overrated

DeyAce
01-12-2012, 02:56 PM
stockton and malone

thekmp211
01-12-2012, 03:04 PM
i'd be inclined to say yes, unless d-will turns it around next season.

John Walls Era
01-12-2012, 03:07 PM
I still trust D Will, but I can't say I'm surprised by Boozers drop.

Baller1
01-12-2012, 05:12 PM
If you can't perform well on a bad team, then you aren't a great player. Doesn't make sense to say you do well on a good team, but when on a bad team you play horrible. You should even be better. I can understand maybe in Boozer's case his numbers going down on a better team, but that shouldn't be the case with Deron on a worse team.

I'll agree with this to an extent; while it's fair to say that a truly great player should have the ability to keep their team from being a bottom dweller, there are instances where it's not fair to critique a player solely based off of his team's success.

I think this is one of the those instances, talking about Deron. Couple that with a wrist injury and you have yourself a struggling superstar in a bad situation.

Bottom line, Deron Williams IS a great player... Despite what last season and this season so far have shown.

Baller1
01-12-2012, 05:13 PM
its hard to overate 11 titles

We'll have to agree to disagree.

redwhitenblue
01-12-2012, 05:31 PM
I know looking at actual numbers isn't loved in the NBA forum, but Boozer's production last year was at his exact career average almost the entire way across the board.


This year his minutes are significantly lower with Thibs trying to preserve him in this shortened season and thus his attempts are lower.


His production with Utah and his production in his first year with Chicago were not different.

Gibby23
01-12-2012, 05:38 PM
I know looking at actual numbers isn't loved in the NBA forum, but Boozer's production last year was at his exact career average almost the entire way across the board.


This year his minutes are significantly lower with Thibs trying to preserve him in this shortened season and thus his attempts are lower.


His production with Utah and his production in his first year with Chicago were not different.

He got that contract from the Bulls based on his las 4 years with Utah where he was averaging better numbers than he did last year.

Heediot
01-12-2012, 05:46 PM
He helped them a lot because of his experience with Stockton and Malone. Imagine if the Clippers hired him. Paul and Griffin are already studs without his services. If he were to coach those two they could challenge Stockton and Malone as the greatest P/PF combo.

smith&wesson
01-12-2012, 05:51 PM
No i dont buy it.

boozer was good in clevland before he went to utah. and so far this year he is looking pretty good. he had an off year last year but maybe that had to do with one of the several injuries he had and learning how to play with a new system and new teammates.

d.will is still d.will and was great in turkey, and is still good just needs some better players to pass too. he cant be very optimistic about his situation right now and that i beleive does effect your game. but he is still putting up good numbers.

--23--
01-12-2012, 06:11 PM
I remember in Utah Sloan would sit Boozer down because of the lack of effort he played with, and Sloan would play Millsap more minutes... which matter fact made it easier for Utah not to re-sign Boozer. Now that seems very similar to whats happening on the Bulls.


To answer the OP question yes both players did flourish in Sloan system, Sloan offense system along with the Triangle are the 2 best i've ever seen in the NBA. His system did help them grow and got the best out of them. Anyone here saying that Boozer was putting up better numbers in Cleveland obviously wasn't watching basketball that long or is trying to deny how good of a coach Sloan was.