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Hustlenomics
01-11-2012, 11:47 PM
best player on the Celtics and continues to get underrated. He CARRIES this team and he has been the past couple of years. While the so called "big three" is declining he's getting better and doing his best to make it easier for them. Brilliant playmaker and has great court vision and he's doing this with players way past their prime, put him on an athletic team and he would be even better.

Kashmir13579
01-12-2012, 12:07 AM
Rondo on the Knicks is championship caliber. I think he's underrated. One of my favorite active players.

Sportfan
01-12-2012, 12:15 AM
Rondo on the Knicks is championship caliber. I think he's underrated. One of my favorite active players.
Well, no **** you add an all star to 2 others and it's going to be very good.



For Rondo's sake, hope KG Pierce get back into form, get their value and then trade them so we can get players that fit Rondo's style.

JohnnyOutcast
01-12-2012, 12:40 AM
Who says he is not a great player? Pretty much everybody agrees that Rondo is an incredible player. /pointless thread

SlimKid
01-12-2012, 01:48 AM
So you started a thread to just make a statement?? Rondo is great, but whats the point of this thread?

phen0m
01-12-2012, 01:54 AM
Hes terrible. Cant shoot, low basketball IQ, overrated passer, uncoachable, product of the big 3, too short, squeaky high voice, oversized gorilla hands.

Hellcrooner
01-12-2012, 02:07 AM
Too bad that kids nowdays only have interest or consider stars the Chuckers of the game.

Anyway Hustlnomics i dont get it.

Rondo is the COMPLETE Oposit of AI, why do you like him?

AI4MVP
01-12-2012, 02:39 AM
Too bad that kids nowdays only have interest or consider stars the Chuckers of the game.

Anyway Hustlnomics i dont get it.

Rondo is the COMPLETE Oposit of AI, why do you like him?

THIS. Its ridiculous. Nobody knows what a real point guard is.

gaughan333
01-12-2012, 02:55 AM
I'll take the successful point guard over the "real" point guard

That said, Rondo is great on a team where other players can score.

Hustlenomics
01-12-2012, 03:00 AM
Too bad that kids nowdays only have interest or consider stars the Chuckers of the game.

Anyway Hustlnomics i dont get it.

Rondo is the COMPLETE Oposit of AI, why do you like him?

they play with a lot of heart

Hellcrooner
01-12-2012, 04:08 AM
I'll take the successful point guard over the "real" point guard

That said, Rondo is great on a team where other players can score.

funny , rondo has already won a ring.

Cubs Win
01-12-2012, 04:33 AM
Well he has "carried" his team to a 4-5 record. :yawn:

Bulls_fan90
01-12-2012, 05:13 AM
funny , rondo has already won a ring.

Yeah, with three future Hall of Famers.

quade36
01-12-2012, 05:38 AM
Pointless thread.

mvb815
01-12-2012, 05:39 AM
swap rondo for deron williams and the celtics compete for a championship this year, while the nets have the same record (maybe worse)

MOST
01-12-2012, 06:23 AM
Nobody cares just like a bulls thread in the NBA forum right.

Kashmir13579
01-12-2012, 11:31 AM
Hustle is right, imo. Rondo is pretty underrated, here. Everyone gives the big 3 credit when Rondo should be getting as much or more.

kozelkid
01-12-2012, 12:05 PM
Hustle is right, imo. Rondo is pretty underrated, here. Everyone gives the big 3 credit when Rondo should be getting as much or more.

I'll reserve judgment til the end of the season. Rondo had a hot start last year as well and then played like **** the second half of the season. He's playing very well now, but it's only been 9 games for him.

Hustlenomics
01-12-2012, 02:34 PM
notice how the Bulls fans have a problem with this

Hustle is right, imo. Rondo is pretty underrated, here. Everyone gives the big 3 credit when Rondo should be getting as much or more.

yep

thekmp211
01-12-2012, 02:42 PM
rondo def. doesn't get the love he deserves. has been the best player on the team for at LEAST two seasons.

GrapeSoda
01-12-2012, 02:43 PM
Hes terrible. Cant shoot, low basketball IQ, overrated passer, uncoachable, product of the big 3, too short, squeaky high voice, oversized gorilla hands.

you mad bro?

CTCUBBIES
01-12-2012, 02:47 PM
rondo def. doesn't get the love he deserves. has been the best player on the team for at LEAST two seasons.

Strange how when Rondo becomes the best player on the Celtics the team's results just keep diminishing. Just coincidence I guess.

Hustlenomics
01-12-2012, 02:50 PM
^ and he led them to a finals appearance, strange indeed

Cubs Win
01-12-2012, 02:53 PM
If he's so great as a No. 1 option, why are the Celtics 4-5? :eyebrow:

thekmp211
01-12-2012, 02:57 PM
Strange how when Rondo becomes the best player on the Celtics the team's results just keep diminishing. Just coincidence I guess.

:facepalm: right hothing to do with his dwindling supporting cast that started out old already. that couldn't possibly have anything to do with it.

one of the dumber posts ive read recently.

Hustlenomics
01-12-2012, 03:05 PM
If he's so great as a No. 1 option, why are the Celtics 4-5? :eyebrow:

the record is going to get better, look at their regular season records the past few years

AIMelo=KillaDUO
01-12-2012, 03:08 PM
Too bad that kids nowdays only have interest or consider stars the Chuckers of the game.

Anyway Hustlnomics i dont get it.

Rondo is the COMPLETE Oposit of AI, why do you like him?

WTF does that hafta do with anything?

Rondo is one of my faves in the game too...

CTCUBBIES
01-12-2012, 03:09 PM
:facepalm: right hothing to do with his dwindling supporting cast that started out old already. that couldn't possibly have anything to do with it.

one of the dumber posts ive read recently.

So which is it Rondo is special because he's the best player on the Celtics or he is only the best player on the Celtics because the other guys are "old and dwindling?" It can't really work both ways. Maybe it was your post pointing out how Rondo needs more love for being the best player on and old and dwindling team that was, in reality, dumb.

beardown4243
01-12-2012, 03:14 PM
Rondo is great when he has great players around him. He can't create his own shot, or hit an outside jumper (or free throws). He is very important to the Celtics and would be valuable to a team like the Knicks, but I don't think he is a player you can build around.

Dnovakovic099
01-12-2012, 03:14 PM
What Celtic fans fail to realize is that Rondo isn't carrying ****. In order to carry a team your team needs to be winning, which the Celtics haven't done so well these past two years. Rondo on the Bulls = the Bulls not even being a top three seed. However, I do believe that Rondo would be insanely effective on a team like Dallas. This Rondo/Rose pissing match needs to stop. Rose is a better player and Rondo is a better pg. It depends on how you built a team.

Dnovakovic099
01-12-2012, 03:15 PM
Rondo is great when he has great players around him. He can't create his own shot, or hit an outside jumper (or free throws). He is very important to the Celtics and would be valuable to a team like the Knicks, but I don't think he is a player you can build around.

This just pretty much nails it on the head.

thekmp211
01-12-2012, 03:16 PM
So which is it Rondo is special because he's the best player on the Celtics or he is only the best player on the Celtics because the other guys are "old and dwindling?" It can't really work both ways. Maybe it was your post pointing out how Rondo needs more love for being the best player on and old and dwindling team that was, in reality, dumb.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball

take a read kiddo, hoops is a team sport.

he was the best player on the team when they went to the finals, too. it's just become more apparent as a. the other stars have aged and b. the depth of the team has taken a hit. he was their best player when the team was at its peak. anything else troll?

thekmp211
01-12-2012, 03:18 PM
What Celtic fans fail to realize is that Rondo isn't carrying ****. In order to carry a team your team needs to be winning, which the Celtics haven't done so well these past two years. Rondo on the Bulls = the Bulls not even being a top three seed. However, I do believe that Rondo would be insanely effective on a team like Dallas. This Rondo/Rose pissing match needs to stop. Rose is a better player and Rondo is a better pg. It depends on how you built a team.

celtics have won just as much as chicago the past 2 seasons..

Hustlenomics
01-12-2012, 03:22 PM
Rondo is great when he has great players around him. He can't create his own shot, or hit an outside jumper (or free throws). He is very important to the Celtics and would be valuable to a team like the Knicks, but I don't think he is a player you can build around.

watch the games he's been hitting jumpers and has games where he's hitting free throws


What Celtic fans fail to realize is that Rondo isn't carrying ****. In order to carry a team your team needs to be winning, which the Celtics haven't done so well these past two years. Rondo on the Bulls = the Bulls not even being a top three seed. However, I do believe that Rondo would be insanely effective on a team like Dallas. This Rondo/Rose pissing match needs to stop. Rose is a better player and Rondo is a better pg. It depends on how you built a team.

they didn't go to the playoffs in 09? he didn't average a triple double against the Bulls in 09? they didn't go to the finals in 2010? they didn't go to the playoffs last year? how many tiimes did Derrick Rose make the finals? you Bulls fans have to compare him to everyone:facepalm:

Gram
01-12-2012, 03:29 PM
Rajon Rondo.

effen5
01-12-2012, 03:29 PM
watch the games he's been hitting jumpers and has games where he's hitting free throws



they didn't go to the playoffs in 09? he didn't average a triple double against the Bulls in 09? they didn't go to the finals in 2010? they didn't go to the playoffs last year? how many tiimes did Derrick Rose make the finals? you Bulls fans have to compare him to everyone:facepalm:

3 hof + Rondo vs Derrick Rose and a chucking Ben Gordon....

Hustlenomics
01-12-2012, 03:31 PM
3 hof + Rondo vs Derrick Rose and a chucking Ben Gordon....

KG didn't play and Gordon was hitting clutch buckets .. triple double average for 7 games there's no discrediting that at all

CTCUBBIES
01-12-2012, 03:38 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball

take a read kiddo, hoops is a team sport.

he was the best player on the team when they went to the finals, too. it's just become more apparent as a. the other stars have aged and b. the depth of the team has taken a hit. he was their best player when the team was at its peak. anything else troll?

So your method of proving me wrong is calling me kiddo and troll and quoting Wikipedia? Hope you're not the lawyer representing Wilpon and Katz.

For the record I love how Rondo plays but I am not so threatened in my homerism that I have to call point guards who don't play like him "chuckers" infering that they aren't great basketball players too. Nor am I some traditionalist that feels some ridiculous need to play a game of semantics when defining a guy's position and, therefore, his status as a player.

Rose is a batter basketball player than Rondo. That's enough for me. Maybe you're right that I shouldn't argue with people because it baits them. That's why I have been on this board since 2004 and don't post very much.

Cubs Win
01-12-2012, 03:39 PM
the record is going to get better, look at their regular season records the past few years

Anything else you wanna predict about the future?

thekmp211
01-12-2012, 03:40 PM
So your method of proving me wrong is calling me kiddo and troll and quoting Wikipedia? Hope you're not the lawyer representing Wilpon and Katz.

For the record I love how Rondo plays but I am not so threatened in my homerism that I have to call point guards who don't play like him "chuckers" infering that they aren't great basketball players too. Nor am I some traditionalist that feels some ridiculous need to play a game of semantics when defining a guy's position and, therefore, his status as a player.

Rose is a batter basketball player than Rondo. That's enough for me. Maybe you're right that I shouldn't argue with people because it baits them. That's why I have been on this board since 2004 and don't post very much.

yes. that's how i respond to someone who makes an innane, childish assertion like you did that ignores the most fundamental understandings of the sport.

the fact is this had nothing to do with derrick rose until you and other chicago fans breathe his name into the thread. i'm not here to argue rose/rondo i'm here to speak to thread which is that rondo is an underrated player.

CTCUBBIES
01-12-2012, 03:44 PM
yes. that's how i respond to someone who makes an innane, childish assertion like you did that ignores the most fundamental understandings of the sport.

the fact is this had nothing to do with derrick rose until you and other chicago fans breathe his name into the thread. i'm not here to argue rose/rondo i'm here to speak to thread which is that rondo is an underrated player.

Well I guess we aren't too far off in our views then because I also think Rondo is underrated.

I bring Rose into it because I think that's exactly who the OP and others are talking about when they say "chuckers" and try to snidely belittle him for some reason. It's like they need to prove Rose and Westbrook are bad in order to prove Rondo is good.

Anytime I see the phrase "chuckers" I feel it is a snide attack and result to the same.

smith&wesson
01-12-2012, 03:44 PM
paul
rose
d.will
rondo
westbrook
nash



i say he is a top 4 pg in the league. and thats pretty dam good.

Hustlenomics
01-12-2012, 03:48 PM
Well I guess we aren't too far off in our views then because I also think Rondo is underrated.

I bring Rose into it because I think that's exactly who the OP and others are talking about when they say "chuckers" and try to snidely belittle him for some reason. It's like they need to prove Rose and Westbrook are bad in order to prove Rondo is good.

Anytime I see the phrase "chuckers" I feel it is a snide attack and result to the same.

OP didn't mention chuckers at all, you got defensive for no reason

thekmp211
01-12-2012, 03:53 PM
Well I guess we aren't too far off in our views then because I also think Rondo is underrated.

I bring Rose into it because I think that's exactly who the OP and others are talking about when they say "chuckers" and try to snidely belittle him for some reason. It's like they need to prove Rose and Westbrook are bad in order to prove Rondo is good.

Anytime I see the phrase "chuckers" I feel it is a snide attack and result to the same.

yeah round these parts its a fair assumption to be honest.

CTCUBBIES
01-12-2012, 03:59 PM
OP didn't mention chuckers at all, you got defensive for no reason

you're right. It was another guy who seems to follow a lot of your posts. Sorry about that.

smith&wesson
01-12-2012, 04:00 PM
OP didn't mention chuckers at all, you got defensive for no reason

he is talking about crooner. and he is right. crooner just starts stating things like "the natural pg is under rated and every one rather see a chucker"

when in reality we all know the value of a natural passing pg but also understand that different teams have different needs and rosters.

like for example the bulls need rose to score more where as the C's require rondo to distribute more. both excellent players both fill the needs of their respective teams.

jkcronyn
01-12-2012, 04:01 PM
could you imagine him playing next to durant? good lord OKC would be dynasty status

Green_Monster
01-12-2012, 04:04 PM
He's a good PG. Wether you like him or not depends on if you want a real PG (One that passes to the real scorers, SG or SF) or one that trys to act like a SG, SF and takes most of the teams shots and isn't a great passer.

NickyNick
01-12-2012, 04:07 PM
I think there should be a rule on posting threads.....if your going to start a thread just to praise a player, he has to be on another team rather than your home team.

As a Celtics fan I am embarrassed by these

smith&wesson
01-12-2012, 04:08 PM
Too bad that kids nowdays only have interest or consider stars the Chuckers of the game.Anyway Hustlnomics i dont get it.

Rondo is the COMPLETE Oposit of AI, why do you like him?

why do you asume that ?

hugepatsfan
01-12-2012, 04:15 PM
Te OP has a serious hard on for Rondo, but overall I don't think Rondo gets the respect he deserves here. People say he's just a product of the Big 3. But he was always regarded as an excellent defender and distributor - I mean coming out of the draft. People always say he's going to be exposed when the Big 3 what. Exposed as what? As the really good player he is IMO. Really good - not elite like some homers say, not terrible like some haters say. A really good player.

And his offense does look better to me this year. (I mean scoring in particular.) If he can maintain this, at least somewhat. I think he can be better than really good. Probably not a superstar (don't see him ever being that good of a scorer), but better than he is.

hugepatsfan
01-12-2012, 04:17 PM
He's a good PG. Wether you like him or not depends on if you want a real PG (One that passes to the real scorers, SG or SF) or one that trys to act like a SG, SF and takes most of the teams shots and isn't a great passer.

Get rid of this close minded/prehistoric attitude that every position has defined roles.

By this logic, Andre Iguodola isn't a "real SF" because he isn't a scorer like they're supposed to be according to you.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
01-12-2012, 04:23 PM
why do you asume that ?

Cuz he's ignorant.

Hustlenomics
01-12-2012, 04:28 PM
you're right. It was another guy who seems to follow a lot of your posts. Sorry about that.


he is talking about crooner. and he is right. crooner just starts stating things like "the natural pg is under rated and every one rather see a chucker"

when in reality we all know the value of a natural passing pg but also understand that different teams have different needs and rosters.

like for example the bulls need rose to score more where as the C's require rondo to distribute more. both excellent players both fill the needs of their respective teams.

:laugh: oh alright


Te OP has a serious hard on for Rondo

no need for that

Sportfan
01-12-2012, 05:20 PM
If he's so great as a No. 1 option, why are the Celtics 4-5? :eyebrow:

Because he has a team that can't keep up with him around him.

Play Rose with the 2nd unit, Rose-Brewer-Korver-Taj-Asik, I wonder how good that team does. You need great supporting cast to be successful

Sportfan
01-12-2012, 05:25 PM
If he's so great as a No. 1 option, why are the Celtics 4-5? :eyebrow:


What Celtic fans fail to realize is that Rondo isn't carrying ****. In order to carry a team your team needs to be winning, which the Celtics haven't done so well these past two years. Rondo on the Bulls = the Bulls not even being a top three seed. However, I do believe that Rondo would be insanely effective on a team like Dallas. This Rondo/Rose pissing match needs to stop. Rose is a better player and Rondo is a better pg. It depends on how you built a team.

Is this bulls homer serious? Celtics had the best record until the stupid Perk trade ****ed up all team chemistry. The year before that Rondo was in a Game 7 finals, how many of those has Rose been in? kthxbai

Dolfan305
01-12-2012, 05:47 PM
He's "carrying" the team to a 4-5 record. Just like I've always said, when the big three get old the Celtics will fall fast and Rondo can't carry a team. It's already happening...

Corey
01-12-2012, 07:10 PM
Pretty much agree. He can't be the leader or number 1/2 option on a playoff team.

Cubs Win
01-12-2012, 07:23 PM
Because he has a team that can't keep up with him around him.

Play Rose with the 2nd unit, Rose-Brewer-Korver-Taj-Asik, I wonder how good that team does. You need great supporting cast to be successful

So you legitimately think Rondo can be the best player on a championship team? :eyebrow:

BCpatsox18
01-12-2012, 07:40 PM
anyone that watched the celtics play the cavs a few years ago in lebricks last series knows rondo is NOT overrated. he outclassed lebron in every way in that series. he is not just a great player because of pierce allen and garnett, although they do help. But any team needs more than one player to win, including rose (boozer, noah). Rondo is one of the best defensive guards in the league and quite possibly the best rebounding point guard in the league. Rose is a better shooter and scorer, but Rondo is just as good at getting to the hoop and i would take his rebounding and defense over Rose any day of the week. Both are great players, dont get me wrong, i just think rondo is the better player as of right now. Rose is still very young, so in a few years this conversation could be very different.

Cubs Win
01-12-2012, 07:43 PM
anyone that watched the celtics play the cavs a few years ago in lebricks last series knows rondo is NOT overrated. he outclassed lebron in every way in that series. he is not just a great player because of pierce allen and garnett, although they do help. But any team needs more than one player to win, including rose (boozer, noah). Rondo is one of the best defensive guards in the league and quite possibly the best rebounding point guard in the league. Rose is a better shooter and scorer, but Rondo is just as good at getting to the hoop and i would take his rebounding and defense over Rose any day of the week. Both are great players, dont get me wrong, i just think rondo is the better player as of right now. Rose is still very young, so in a few years this conversation could be very different.

:laugh:

Hustlenomics
01-13-2012, 12:15 AM
anyone that watched the celtics play the cavs a few years ago in lebricks last series knows rondo is NOT overrated. he outclassed lebron in every way in that series. he is not just a great player because of pierce allen and garnett, although they do help. But any team needs more than one player to win, including rose (boozer, noah). Rondo is one of the best defensive guards in the league and quite possibly the best rebounding point guard in the league. Rose is a better shooter and scorer, but Rondo is just as good at getting to the hoop and i would take his rebounding and defense over Rose any day of the week

fact

Sportfan
01-13-2012, 01:15 AM
So you legitimately think Rondo can be the best player on a championship team? :eyebrow:

Rondo-James Harden-Luol Deng-Josh Smith-Marc Gasol

Rondo is the best player on that team, that team can compete for a championship

He won't be a Lebron, Kobe taking a team of **** to the playoffs, but he can defiantly be a 1b player on a championship team.

Hustlenomics
01-13-2012, 01:44 AM
http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/paul-flannery/2012/01/12/rajon-rondos-team-now-he-needs-help

jneises21
01-13-2012, 01:49 AM
If only he didn't have those big *** hands and could shoot the ball

Corey
01-13-2012, 01:55 AM
Rondo-James Harden-Luol Deng-Josh Smith-Marc Gasol

Rondo is the best player on that team, that team can compete for a championship

He won't be a Lebron, Kobe taking a team of **** to the playoffs, but he can defiantly be a 1b player on a championship team.

He'd also be the fifth option on that team.

He will never be a 1 or 2 option on a legitimate title contender.

Corey
01-13-2012, 02:00 AM
but Rondo is just as good at getting to the hoop
Then how come Rose is attempted 5 more FTAs per game last year?

and i would take his rebounding and defense over Rose any day of the weekRose posted better defensive metrics pretty much across the board last year.
Both are great players, dont get me wrong, i just think rondo is the better player as of right now.
Rose just won an MVP. You're insane.
Rose is still very young, so in a few years this conversation could be very different.
This is why certain fanbases don't like Celtic fans. :sigh:

Do you think Rondo is as good as Chris Paul too?

phen0m
01-13-2012, 03:30 AM
He'd also be the fifth option on that team.

He will never be a 1 or 2 option on a legitimate title contender.

Sincerely hope that was a troll, because if it wasnt its quite possibly the most ******** thing i've ever read lol. No **** he'll never be a 1 or 2 option on a legitimate title contender, he will never be a 1 or 2 option on an illegitimate title contender either. Hes a distributor einstein.

Raph12
01-13-2012, 05:06 AM
Underrated by some, overrated by many... Depends on how good you really think he is.

Shammyguy3
01-13-2012, 05:49 AM
watch the games he's been hitting jumpers and has games where he's hitting free throws

So far this year:
10-15ft: 3/9
16-23ft: 9/23

Idk if you consider that "good" or not because I really don't. Between 10-23 feet he's shooting 37.5% ... that's pretty awful.


He's a good PG. Wether you like him or not depends on if you want a real PG (One that passes to the real scorers, SG or SF) or one that trys to act like a SG, SF and takes most of the teams shots and isn't a great passer.

So what is the definition of a "real" PG? And, why can't the PG be a "real" scorer? And not all scoring point guards are mediocre passers. Rose for instance is a very good passer. He'll never be Nash/Kidd/Paul/Williams or even Rondo at passing, but he's still very good.


Because he has a team that can't keep up with him around him.

Play Rose with the 2nd unit, Rose-Brewer-Korver-Taj-Asik, I wonder how good that team does. You need great supporting cast to be successful

If you give those 5 an average bench, it makes the playoffs in either conference imo. That's a really good defensive team. And Brewer has played phenomenally so far this season.


i just think rondo is the better player as of right now. Rose is still very young, so in a few years this conversation could be very different.

:laugh2: how is Rondo better than Rose?


Rondo-James Harden-Luol Deng-Josh Smith-Marc Gasol

Rondo is the best player on that team, that team can compete for a championship

He won't be a Lebron, Kobe taking a team of **** to the playoffs, but he can defiantly be a 1b player on a championship team.

I honestly see Harden/Deng easily being better than Rondo. Replacing their production would be a lotttt harder than replacing Rondo's.

Sportfan
01-13-2012, 07:44 AM
He'd also be the fifth option on that team.

He will never be a 1 or 2 option on a legitimate title contender.
The question was could Rondo be the best player on the team. Answer is yes, doesn't matter about points (he'd get 15 anyway)

JohnnyOutcast
01-13-2012, 09:54 AM
Because he has a team that can't keep up with him around him.

Play Rose with the 2nd unit, Rose-Brewer-Korver-Taj-Asik, I wonder how good that team does. You need great supporting cast to be successful

Funny that you mention that considering that if you actually watch Bulls games you would know that:

Rose
Brewer for Defense OR Korver for Offense
Deng
Taj
Asik

is actually the line-up the Bulls have been using to finish alot of games this year, and it has been working pretty well.

Gram
01-13-2012, 01:06 PM
Rajon Rondo.

Hawkeye15
01-13-2012, 02:37 PM
I thought I was a homer about Kevin Love. Jesus.

Corey
01-13-2012, 06:41 PM
I thought I was a homer about Kevin Love. Jesus.

Welcome to life in the Celtics forum.

Celticsfan2007
01-13-2012, 06:53 PM
Welcome to life in the Celtics forum.

lets just chalk it up to this:

Rondo is a 'unique' player

therefore

Rondo has a 'unique' fan base lol

Tony_Starks
01-13-2012, 06:56 PM
Take away the fact that his jumper is completely horrible and I must begrudingly say Rondo is a really good pg. Would I take him over Rose, CP3, Williams, or even Nash? Absolutely not!!!

Sportfan
01-13-2012, 06:57 PM
I honestly see Harden/Deng easily being better than Rondo. Replacing their production would be a lotttt harder than replacing Rondo's.
smh homer bulls fan...

Because Rondo has been so replaceable, the Celtics are in shambles when he's out of games no one can direct on the floor. Rondo has the higher PER and WS/48 than Harden and Deng on a 3 year average

Harden will probably become the best player a couple years down the road, but on that team right now Rajon Rondo is the best player and that team can play with anyone. I'm actually jizzing over how good that team is lol, you have tremendous defense 1-5, Harden can shoot the lights out, Deng is a nice slasher and is getting a 3 point shot, Smoove/Rondo alley oops :drool: and Gasol works really well under the basket.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
01-13-2012, 07:03 PM
Welcome to life in the Celtics forum.

Agreed:laugh2:

Rondo is probably the hardest player to rate in the NBA.

hugepatsfan
01-13-2012, 07:16 PM
I don't know if Rondo is overrated or underrated. I think he's almost universely wrongly-rated. Many don't give him his due IMO, but just as many think too highly of him.

Corey
01-13-2012, 08:42 PM
He's a special player. He has a unique skill set.

That being said..His defense is overrated, many of his assists come because he plays with three great catch-and-shoot players that work well off ball, and his offense is VERY limited outside of ~5 feet.

Hustlenomics
01-13-2012, 11:50 PM
I thought I was a homer about Kevin Love. Jesus.

Oh you are lol

BCpatsox18
01-14-2012, 10:58 PM
Then how come Rose is attempted 5 more FTAs per game last year?
Rose posted better defensive metrics pretty much across the board last year.
Rose just won an MVP. You're insane.
This is why certain fanbases don't like Celtic fans. :sigh:

Do you think Rondo is as good as Chris Paul too?

he had more free throws because NBA refs officiate the games on reputation and rondo is shut down i dont care what the metrics say i judge by watching the games and from what ive seen, rondo is better. and as for the chris paul question, hes not quite on that level scoring-wise, but overall id put him on that level. people keep saying that rondo is only good because of the big three but fail to realize that for the last few years hes been the best player on the team.

Hustlenomics
01-18-2012, 10:25 PM
21 points in three quarters today

bagwell368
01-18-2012, 10:30 PM
21 points in three quarters today

Against what? A credible team?

The last 10 games for each team, Westbrook has outplayed Rondo.

Rondo is easy to rate. If you don't need a consistent J and some 3's out of your PG, or FT%, and have 3 top offensive players (like the C's in '08) then he's very good. But if he has to be a top 3 scorer night in and night out - you're screwed.

That leaves out all his emotional issues such as throwing away 20 games last year over Perk leaving, and his various other BS moves going all the way back to his Freshman year in college and culminating in tossing video equipment around last year.

IF you toss out his really crappy rookie year, he's on average about 9-12th PG in the NBA, he peaked out a couple of years ago at about 5th, but he's erratic including really slipping last year. Several of the Celts homers here will claim he's top 5, and that he crushes Westbrook (and even CP3 so far this year). Don't pay attention, they can't sell that stuff on the Celts board except to each other, don't buy it out here.

bagwell368
01-18-2012, 10:38 PM
The question was could Rondo be the best player on the team. Answer is yes, doesn't matter about points (he'd get 15 anyway)

A top 3 seed playoff team? Not in the NBA unless there are a lot of strange accidents carried out on star players.

Corey and I have tried our best to explain to you guys in the Celts board how off the wall this is. Now you want to take to the main NBA group? You're going to get erased.

Hustlenomics
01-18-2012, 10:47 PM
Against what? A credible team?

The last 10 games for each team, Westbrook has outplayed Rondo.

.

nobody is talking about westbrook

Hustlenomics
01-18-2012, 11:00 PM
Against what? A credible team?



22 points, 12 assists, and 8 rebounds against the heat

24 points, 7 assists against the Mavs

14 points, 11 assists, 7 boards against the Bulls

definitely not credible teams

bagwell368
01-18-2012, 11:07 PM
22 points, 12 assists, and 8 rebounds against the heat

24 points, 7 assists against the Mavs

14 points, 11 assists, 7 boards against the Bulls

definitely not credible teams

In post #84 you were talking about tonights game, I bring up something else and you complain and then do it yourself. Cool. BTW, lots of people are talking about Rondo v Westbrook as you well know, don't be coy, it's not your style.

Rondo is a fine player, better when surrounded by great offensive players. But as serious team #1 player? It's ridiculous, only you and 2-3 of your pals can't make that out for yourselves. It's not my fault.

Shammyguy3
01-18-2012, 11:09 PM
smh homer bulls fan...

Because Rondo has been so replaceable, the Celtics are in shambles when he's out of games no one can direct on the floor. Rondo has the higher PER and WS/48 than Harden and Deng on a 3 year average

Harden will probably become the best player a couple years down the road, but on that team right now Rajon Rondo is the best player and that team can play with anyone. I'm actually jizzing over how good that team is lol, you have tremendous defense 1-5, Harden can shoot the lights out, Deng is a nice slasher and is getting a 3 point shot, Smoove/Rondo alley oops :drool: and Gasol works really well under the basket.

I'm not being a homer at all. Rondo's production can be replaced a lot easier than James Harden's can or Luol Deng's can. It's not that difficult to acknowledge. Really. After Rose/Paul/Williams, there's one clear tier of players that include Westbrook/Rondo/Nash/Parker/Curry/Lawson/Rubio/Harris/Collison/Irving/Hinrich/Kidd/Brooks and others that can fill in for Rondo and outproduce him or provide almost as much production overall. You can't say the same about James Harden and Luol Deng.

Corey
01-18-2012, 11:10 PM
Hustlenomics, Rondo had a good game. It's bound to happen every once in a while.

You only post when he plays well.

You never post when he plays like crap.

We get it, you like him a lot.

Hustlenomics
01-18-2012, 11:13 PM
In post #84 you were talking about tonights game, I bring up something else and you complain and then do it yourself. Cool. BTW, lots of people are talking about Rondo v Westbrook as you well know, don't be coy, it's not your style.



you said "against a credible team?" like he doesn't torch great teams in the league too so i had to let you know tonights game wasn't a one day thing


Rondo is a fine player, better when surrounded by great offensive players. But as serious team #1 player? It's ridiculous, only you and 2-3 of your pals can't make that out for yourselves. It's not my fault.
i never said he should be a # 1 option he's a distributor that's what a point guard should do

Shammyguy3
01-18-2012, 11:17 PM
Then what should a SG, SF, PF, C do? If there's a defined role for one position, there has to be defined positions for all of them.

Hustlenomics
01-18-2012, 11:18 PM
^ nice try Rose fan

Hustlenomics, Rondo had a good game. It's bound to happen every once in a while.

You only post when he plays well.

You never post when he plays like crap.

We get it, you like him a lot.

i post in every game thread and how many times has he "played like crap" since i created this thread

Shammyguy3
01-18-2012, 11:21 PM
Go ahead, refuse to answer a simple question. :laugh2:

Hustlenomics
01-18-2012, 11:25 PM
Go ahead, refuse to answer a simple question. :laugh2:

name the best point guards in the history in the nba and tell me what they mostly did

Shammyguy3
01-18-2012, 11:28 PM
Tell me what the best SGs, PFs, SFs, Cs, etc did...

There's nothing wrong with diversity, but you're trying to say that you should limit one position to doing one thing. Which is blatantly stupid.

Hustlenomics
01-18-2012, 11:34 PM
I said Rondo is a distributor because that's what point guards have been doing since the beginning of time and that's their clear cut role to get their teammates involved. Why does that bother you

Shammyguy3
01-18-2012, 11:36 PM
Because you're saying a PG should only distribute, it seems like that at least. Lebron James is a SF, but one of the best parts of his game is passing... should he not do that since he isn't a "PG?"

Hustlenomics
01-18-2012, 11:40 PM
a point guards main job is to distribute and set up plays, do you not know the game or are you trying to be funny?

Lim
01-18-2012, 11:52 PM
boston should literally trade every single one of the big 4. try to get as many picks as u can, speed up the rebuilding process

BcEuAbRsS
01-18-2012, 11:53 PM
And the main purpose of a team is to win... keep Rondo, I will gladly take Rose...

Hustlenomics
01-18-2012, 11:56 PM
^ they won a championship and made it again 2 years later ..............

kidfury
01-19-2012, 12:01 AM
I'm not a celtic fan or a rondo fan but last season's play offs when he returned to the game after hyperextending his elbow, rondo deserves some respect for having a pair.

BcEuAbRsS
01-19-2012, 12:25 AM
^ they won a championship and made it again 2 years later ..............

Cool... 3 HOFers had nothing to do with that right?

Look at last yr, two of the final 4 teams didn't have your "traditional" PG...

Look at this yr, the top 2 teams don't have "traditional" PGs...

If you want Rondo then that makes no difference to me... but if I get to pick between Rose and Rondo... I'm picking Rose every single time...

Hustlenomics
01-19-2012, 12:29 AM
Cool... 3 HOFers had nothing to do with that right?
yes 3 all stars did help and so did Rondo obviously


Look at last yr, two of the final 4 teams didn't have your "traditional" PG...
jason kidd isn't a traditional point guard??



If you want Rondo then that makes no difference to me... but if I get to pick between Rose and Rondo... I'm picking Rose every single time...

i don't care who you pick between them Rose has nothing to do with this thread

Kashmir13579
01-19-2012, 12:48 AM
Rondo is better than Rose defensively and a better passer. If Rondo's defense is overrated, Rose's is vastly overrated. Guards can't get into the paint against the Bulls, and it has as much (or more) to do with their interior as it does with Rose.

I don't think anyone would take Rondo over Rose right now, and they shouldn't. But Rondo certainly is a better distributor and defender, and some would say a better point guard.

BcEuAbRsS
01-19-2012, 01:03 AM
That's why I said 2 of the 4... Westbrook/Rose

Hustlenomics
01-19-2012, 01:10 AM
That's why I said 2 of the 4... Westbrook/Rose

and neither of them made the finals rose shot 39% on 24 shots a game against the Heat and Westbrook shot 39 % with nearly 5 turnovers a game against the Mavs

Shammyguy3
01-19-2012, 01:26 AM
a point guards main job is to distribute and set up plays, do you not know the game or are you trying to be funny?

No it's not the "point" guard's job. What point guards were on the Lakers/Bulls/Spurs dynasties? They were guys that contributed moreso than setting up the team. What about those Cleveland teams that Lebron had? What about the Miami Heat right now?

Those are great teams that didn't have your "traditional" PG and still won championships or had a lot of success in the league. So din't give me this "trying to be funny" crap because I'm being serious.


Rondo is better than Rose defensively and a better passer. If Rondo's defense is overrated, Rose's is vastly overrated. Guards can't get into the paint against the Bulls, and it has as much (or more) to do with their interior as it does with Rose.

I don't think anyone would take Rondo over Rose right now, and they shouldn't. But Rondo certainly is a better distributor and defender, and some would say a better point guard.

Rose is definitely the better defender now. He's improved tremendously. It's easy to go off of his past seasons and say he's been bad, which he was his rookie & sophomore years. Last season he was above average, and this year he's been great defensively.

And what the heck does "better point guard" mean besides being a better passer, which Rondo is.

ghettosean
01-19-2012, 01:27 AM
Rondo is definitely one of the top PG in the NBA but he does have some serious attitude issues. It's been leaked that last year during the Miami series when the coaching staff tried to point out some defensive mistakes to him on tape he flipped out and threw a water bottle and caused a huge scene with everyone in the room. I noticed tension during that series because there was a point when I was watching the Celts take a time out and everyone was in the huddle but Rondo. Pierce tried to gently (and somewhat forcefully) pull him into the huddle and Rondo just force Pierce off him and walk away (this was caught on television).

He is definitely a gifted athlete but definitely has some issues behind the scenes with controlling his emotions at times but I suppose him wearing his heart on his shoulders makes him the player that he is so it's kind of a trade off.

Hustlenomics
01-19-2012, 01:32 AM
No it's not the "point" guard's job. What point guards were on the Lakers/Bulls/Spurs dynasties? They were guys that contributed moreso than setting up the team. What about those Cleveland teams that Lebron had? What about the Miami Heat right now?

Those are great teams that didn't have your "traditional" PG and still won championships or had a lot of success in the league. So din't give me this "trying to be funny" crap because I'm being serious.

so you chose three franchises with one scoring point guard and try to say point guards aren't suppose to set up their teammates and distribute? what championships did the heat and cavs win?. the hell does that have to do with what point guards do



Rose is definitely the better defender now. He's improved tremendously. It's easy to go off of his past seasons and say he's been bad, which he was his rookie & sophomore years. Last season he was above average, and this year he's been great defensively.

And what the heck does "better point guard" mean besides being a better passer, which Rondo is.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: ok let's see who the coaches choose on the all nba defense teams. you're really insane if you think rose is a better man to man defender than rondo

Meaze_Gibson
01-19-2012, 02:10 AM
As of now, Rose is better than Rondo in both Defensive Rating (Basketball Reference) and Opponent Counterpart production (82 games). I personally watched him put the best defense i I have seen from anyone on chris paul this year. The gap is not even is closing in man to man defense. Rondo may get more steals but as far as staying in front of their man it is even.

Hustlenomics
01-19-2012, 02:18 AM
he did not stop chris paul at all that game he outscored him but if you call him letting chris paul shoot 50% and get 15 points with 14 dimes some type of great defensive performance and that making him a better man to man defender than rondo then ok.

Rondo at times gambles for a steal sometimes he pokes it out and sometimes he doesn't but other than that when he has to stay in front of his defender he checks him lik ehis defense on Lebron dating back to last season he shuts him down. Rose doesn't have rondo's wingspan to reach but still gets blown by so his footwork is not even close to rondo's

Shammyguy3
01-19-2012, 03:03 AM
so you chose three franchises with one scoring point guard and try to say point guards aren't suppose to set up their teammates and distribute? what championships did the heat and cavs win?. the hell does that have to do with what point guards do



:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: ok let's see who the coaches choose on the all nba defense teams. you're really insane if you think rose is a better man to man defender than rondo

Name teams that had a traditional PG that did win championships. You'll see just as many teams that didn't have a PG that set up his teammates. There is no definitive way of building a team. You can have a PG like Derrick Fischer that only hits open shots and plays within a system, you can have Mo Williams who does the same thing, you can have Derrick Rose that scores and passes just like Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, etc have done in their careers, or you can have Rondo, Stockton, Magic, etc. It doesn't matter. There are no absolutes dude.

And yeah, Rose is easily the better man defender today. The Stats prove it: http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/19/rose-dwarfs-other-improvements-with-defense/



January 19, 2011, 1:47 pm
Rose Dwarfs Other Improvements With Defense
By ROB MAHONEY

Derrick Rose’s ongoing most valuable player campaign is often unfairly boiled down to his superior shooting this season, but Rose’s increased range is far from his most compelling improvement.

To build the case for Rose as the league’s most valuable, begin with his prolific scoring and, yes, his newly minted three-point range. Rose has boosted his production without any cost to his efficiency, and that certainly deserves note. Then point to Rose’s career-high assist numbers (which are strong per game, per minute, and per possession) and his improved rebounding as signs of progress for his overall game. He may be a scorer first and foremost, but Rose’s feel for facilitating his team’s offense has improved immensely over his first two-and-a-half seasons in the league. He isn’t merely a drive-and-kick point guard; Rose scores at an elite level, can penetrate the lane at will, and has legitimate playmaking ability on top of it all. He may lack the pure passing splendor of some of his point guard contemporaries, but Rose nonetheless sets up his teammates for quality looks in increasingly diverse fashion.

All of that makes for a pretty impressive résumé, but neglects the most drastic improvement in Rose’s game this season; whether due to natural evolution, Tom Thibodeau’s tutelage, or his time with the defense-first Team U.S.A., Rose has learned to use his incredible physical gifts more effectively on the defensive end, and has become into one of the league’s most surprisingly effective perimeter defenders.

Rose’s quickness and length (he measured at a 6-8 wingspan in the 2008 Draft Combine) stood out as attributes that could serve him well on defense, but his awareness, effort, and understanding of what constitutes the “right” defensive play seemed to be lacking during his first two seasons. Those aren’t faults of Rose alone, but they were certainly held against his individual standing as a player -– and rightfully so.

What’s so remarkable about Rose isn’t that he improved defensively (incremental gains are pretty much assumed as young players become more comfortable), but that he improved so early and so rapidly. Rose is just 22, and a year removed from being a part-time liability on the defensive end. Not only has he shattered expectations for his defensive improvement this season, but Rose has a legitimate claim as a plus defender while playing at the most difficult position in the league. Gone are the lethargic sequences where Rose dawdled around a screen or launched into the air at the slightest pump fake. Rose has made a legitimately positive defensive impact, and he has the numbers to prove it.

Joakim Noah, thought to be the single key to the Bulls’ defensive success, has played only 24 of 41 games this season, and yet Chicago is still best in the league in points allowed per 100 possessions. Rose doesn’t deserve all of the credit, but the perimeter trio of Rose, Ronnie Brewer, and Luol Deng has made things tough for opposing teams. It’s a matter of necessity; Chicago’s offense isn’t good enough to keep it afloat, and its defense provides the most consistent path toward victory. If Rose were still a defensive sieve, the Bulls would be struggling without Noah. If Rose were merely a moderately successful defender, the Bulls wouldn’t have the top defense and the third seed in the Eastern Conference. It’s taken every bit of Rose’s defensive improvement to keep the Bulls rolling despite significant injuries to both Noah and Carlos Boozer, but he’s quickly taken to Thibodeau’s famed defensive system and delivered in a big way.

More outstanding yet are Rose’s individual defensive numbers. According to Synergy Sports Technology, Rose has allowed just 0.77 points per possession overall on defense this season, an elite mark for any defender, regardless of position. Chris Paul (0.86 points per possession allowed), Rajon Rondo (0.83 PPP allowed), and Russell Westbrook (0.92 PPP allowed) –- all excellent defenders -– have been trumped statistically this year, and by no slim margin. Rose has each of those players handily beat, and boasts a shockingly comprehensive defensive profile.

Rose is particularly effective in defending isolation sequences, where he allows just 0.61 points per possession. Rose’s lateral quickness becomes a huge asset when opponents go one-on-one. In this sequence, watch how Rose goes over the pick with the Sixers’ Jrue Holiday, and yet still stays with him step for step as he drives into the lane:

Admittedly, part of the reason Rose does so well against isolated opponents is his focus. Rose still wanders mentally from time to time, but having an opponent with the ball directly in front of him no doubt creates a sense of importance and urgency. He has no choice but to try to stop him, and this season he’s certainly been more effective.

Strong individual defense, however, involves an understanding of opponent strengths and weaknesses, and a predictive element that enables defenders to beat their opponents to particular spots on the floor. Athleticism aids in those efforts and helps to erase some of Rose’s mistakes, but it’s his more complete understanding of proper defensive technique that has enabled Rose to blanket his counterparts this season. Watch as he defends Indiana’s T.J. Ford:

Rose is clearly playing off of Ford and encouraging him to shoot a jumper, yet he’s quick to shut off Ford’s driving lanes and also to recover when Ford opts for the step-back. Just as importantly, Rose plays with awareness of both Ford’s movements and the ticking shot clock. Even when the 24-second clock nears zero, Rose doesn’t fall for Ford’s pump fakes. He waits, he challenges, and then he smothers Ford’s desperate shot attempt when he has no other choice but to shoot.

He’s effective in defending the pick-and-roll as well, mostly due to his persistence around screens. Rose gets picked off just like every other perimeter player in the N.B.A., but he’s quick to scurry and maneuver back to his man. Rose may be screened, but he’s never deterred. It’s a credit to the Bulls’ bigs that Chicago is so effective in defending the pick-and-roll, but all they can really offer is a window. It’s up to Rose to fight through the screen and recover quickly, to prevent weak-side exploitation of the Bulls’ rotations.

Rose has become relentless. Not perfectly so, mind you, but to an admirable degree. He doesn’t take as many defensive possessions off, even as he carries an absurd amount of offensive responsibility. He doesn’t seem to give up mid-play as often as he did in years past, and instead works diligently to get himself back into defensive position. He doesn’t jump before he should, or take a breather when he shouldn’t. For the first time in his career, Rose looks like he wants to play defense, and it shows.



And that was last year, this year he's been ****ing amazing on defense.

BearsBullsCHWS
01-19-2012, 03:26 AM
I said Rondo is a distributor because that's what point guards have been doing since the beginning of time and that's their clear cut role to get their teammates involved. Why does that bother you

This is absolutely insane. Because something has been happening one way does not mean that way is efficient or should be continued.

Here's a simple analogy to point out the lapse of logic. For decades, maybe even centuries, baseball teams have been putting fast players at the top of their batting orders. It was that way from the "begining of time" as you put it. The leadoff hitter's role was thought to be a fast guy who could steal bases. Through studying the game, it is now determined that sacrificing hitting skill (mainly on-base percentage) for speed is an inefficient trade off and is actually harmful to a team's offensive output.

Just because someone has defined a role in some manner does not necessarily mean that that role is the correct way to view a situation. Distributing the ball is important for a point guard, just as speed is important for any baseball player (stealing bases and running the bases in general is important to a team, just not as important as getting on base), but distributing the ball is not the end all be all of a point guard's purpose on a basketball court.

Rondo helps his team by sharp passes and finding the open player, but that's just one aspect of basketball. But there are many other ways to help a team win. He's a good player, but he's not elite.

Blazers#1Fan
01-19-2012, 03:57 AM
send him to portland swap Felton,G.Wallace,pick for Rondo,Wilcox

Camby/Kurt Thomas
Aldridge/C.Smith
Batum/Pietrus
Matthews/Crawford
Rondo/Nolan.Smith

Oneal/KG/Wilcox
KG/Bass
Pierce/Wallace
Allen/Wallace
Felton/Allen/Dooling

boston gets depth for the future loss of the big 3 if Pierce or ray retire you got wallace portland gets a actual PG

Hustlenomics
01-19-2012, 11:46 AM
Name teams that had a traditional PG that did win championships. You'll see just as many teams that didn't have a PG that set up his teammates. There is no definitive way of building a team. You can have a PG like Derrick Fischer that only hits open shots and plays within a system, you can have Mo Williams who does the same thing, you can have Derrick Rose that scores and passes just like Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, etc have done in their careers, or you can have Rondo, Stockton, Magic, etc. It doesn't matter. There are no absolutes dude.

And yeah, Rose is easily the better man defender today. The Stats prove it: http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/19/rose-dwarfs-other-improvements-with-defense/



And that was last year, this year he's been ****ing amazing on defense.
i don't need no BS stats to see how they DEFEND especially when he has Noah downlow to help him out that swats everything to the bleachers. I watch enough Bulls game to see him get blown by easily and if his defense is "amazing" he will make the all nba first team defense over rondo

avon_barksdale
01-19-2012, 11:59 AM
why do the drose d-ridaz feel the need to bring him into any talks bout other pgs?

Chronz
01-19-2012, 12:31 PM
i don't need no BS stats to see how they DEFEND especially when he has Noah downlow to help him out that swats everything to the bleachers. I watch enough Bulls game to see him get blown by easily and if his defense is "amazing" he will make the all nba first team defense over rondo
That doesnt work here because these stats SHOW you how they defend, I do agree that the support behind any defender augments their individual worth, but the notion that the stats are BS and your eyes are all knowing isnt something many people will agree with. Your probably one of the last people alive who still puts stock into All-Defensive Lists.

What Bulls games have you seen? What players have abused him individually?

kobebabe
01-19-2012, 12:54 PM
care to put this in the Celtics forum????

haggis
01-19-2012, 12:58 PM
i don't need no BS stats to see how they DEFEND especially when he has Noah downlow to help him out that swats everything to the bleachers. I watch enough Bulls game to see him get blown by easily and if his defense is "amazing" he will make the all nba first team defense over rondo

Why do you act like Ronda has never had a quality defense behind him? He had the same luxuries Rose has (Thibs, quality defensive backcourt (KG/Perk), and great team D).

Any you clearly don't know how to correctly apply the stats that Shammy provided. At all.

D1JM
01-19-2012, 01:08 PM
Ronda

magichatnumber9
01-19-2012, 01:38 PM
Darlene Rosa

Shammyguy3
01-19-2012, 05:56 PM
i don't need no BS stats to see how they DEFEND especially when he has Noah downlow to help him out that swats everything to the bleachers. I watch enough Bulls game to see him get blown by easily and if his defense is "amazing" he will make the all nba first team defense over rondo

Ummm, you realize Joakim Noah's career blocks per game is 1.3 right? That's not out-of-this-world like at all. And blocks (steals too) doesn't determine a good defender or not. Dennis Rodman, one of the best defenders of all time, averaged less than 1 block and 1 steal per game. And you know what? Garnett/Perkins were superior to Noah/Tyrus or Noah/Gooden or Noah/Gibson defensivelly. So Rondo, like Haggis said, has had just as much help in his career defensively as Rose (and imo more, until now).

Kashmir13579
01-19-2012, 06:13 PM
Rose is definitely the better defender now. He's improved tremendously. It's easy to go off of his past seasons and say he's been bad, which he was his rookie & sophomore years. Last season he was above average, and this year he's been great defensively.

And what the heck does "better point guard" mean besides being a better passer, which Rondo is.

This is definitely an opinion from a Bulls fan. This year 'Melo has been great defensively and i'm not about to put him over guys that have been doing it better, for longer.

Just look at it from a rational, unbiased standpoint. Put Rondo on the Bulls in front of that beastly interior defense and tell me he isn't just as effective. Bulls are THE BEST defensive team in the NBA and it is not because of Derrick Rose.

Kashmir13579
01-19-2012, 06:16 PM
Ummm, you realize Joakim Noah's career blocks per game is 1.3 right? That's not out-of-this-world like at all. And blocks (steals too) doesn't determine a good defender or not. Dennis Rodman, one of the best defenders of all time, averaged less than 1 block and 1 steal per game. And you know what? Garnett/Perkins were superior to Noah/Tyrus or Noah/Gooden or Noah/Gibson defensivelly. So Rondo, like Haggis said, has had just as much help in his career defensively as Rose (and imo more, until now).

The Celtics were obviously a great defensive team when they were at the top of their game, but i feel like you are undervaluing your team and coach at the expense of overvaluing your favorite player.

Hustlenomics
01-19-2012, 06:17 PM
That doesnt work here because these stats SHOW you how they defend, I do agree that the support behind any defender augments their individual worth, but the notion that the stats are BS and your eyes are all knowing isnt something many people will agree with. Your probably one of the last people alive who still puts stock into All-Defensive Lists.

What Bulls games have you seen? What players have abused him individually?

the stats don't SHOW me how he's defending at all its just numbers you have to judge by what you see. why do nba scouts go to ncaa games to see players for? shoot they can just look at stats now and know who to draft instead of seeing how they play close up. I've been watching Rose since Memphis im not a bandwagon bulls fan that started screaming his name three years ago

Shammyguy3
01-19-2012, 06:24 PM
I'm not overvaluing Rose at all. He's been great defensively, better than Rondo last season and so far this season.

Rose is a better man-to-man defender than Rondo, it's not hard to comprehend. Rose is better equipped to guard his man in ISO situations. Rondo's better at playing the passing lanes and such, but Rose is still the better overall defender to me.

And if you put Rondo on this Bulls team, and the defense is slightly worse (by a very small percent) but only because interior defense is far more important than perimeter defenders. The difference would be the smallest of margins defensively as a unit, but as individuals... Rose is better.

Hustlenomics
01-19-2012, 06:39 PM
6'10 wingspan with better foot work and more tenacious on D

Kashmir13579
01-19-2012, 06:46 PM
^ Hustle you really do come off as a nut-hugger but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Shammy, I'm a Knick fan and apart from the handful of nationally televised games i've seen from the Bulls, i see both the Celtics and Bulls at least 3 times every year. This is purely anecdotal, but last year when the Knicks devastated the Bulls twice it was "scrubs" like Landry Fields and Toney Douglas lighting Rose up from the perimeter. Not the case with the Celtics.

Apart from what i've seen with my own two eyes, I have looked into the numbers a fair amount. Everyone knows defensive stats in basketball are highly flawed, and i'm not drinking the kool-aid that the best interior defense since Detroit in 04 doesn't help pad Rose's defensive stats.

Corey
01-19-2012, 06:47 PM
Rose has posted better defensive metrics than Rondo for about a year and a half now.

Rondo gambles. He used to have Garnett and Perkins to make up for it, but now that Perkins is gone and Garnett has lost a step, Rondo's gambling has hurt the Celtics more than it has helped it. He doesn't stay in front of his man, he's slow on standard rotations, and he fades away from his man into the post far too often.

haggis
01-19-2012, 06:53 PM
I've been watching Rose since Memphis im not a bandwagon bulls fan that started screaming his name three years ago

Most of us have been watching him since Chicago Public League.


Everyone knows defensive stats in basketball are highly flawed, and i'm not drinking the kool-aid that the best interior defense since Detroit in 04 doesn't help pad Rose's defensive stats.

That's why Shammy used Synergy metrics, which don't take into account team defense, they isolate the individual defender on EVERY play.


Rose has posted better defensive metrics than Rondo for about a year and a half now.

Rondo gambles. He used to have Garnett and Perkins to make up for it, but now that Perkins is gone and Garnett has lost a step, Rondo's gambling has hurt the Celtics more than it has helped it. He doesn't stay in front of his man, he's slow on standard rotations, and he fades away from his man into the post far too often.

Corey gets it.

Hustlenomics
01-19-2012, 06:57 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V2tcKdNUL0 this is rondo's defense when he doesn't gamble and stays in front of his man.


^ Hustle you really do come off as a nut-hugger but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Shammy, I'm a Knick fan and apart from the handful of nationally televised games i've seen from the Bulls, i see both the Celtics and Bulls at least 3 times every year. This is purely anecdotal, but last year when the Knicks devastated the Bulls twice it was "scrubs" like Landry Fields and Toney Douglas lighting Rose up from the perimeter. Not the case with the Celtics.

Apart from what i've seen with my own two eyes, I have looked into the numbers a fair amount. Everyone knows defensive stats in basketball are highly flawed, and i'm not drinking the kool-aid that the best interior defense since Detroit in 04 doesn't help pad Rose's defensive stats.

no nut hugging relax. Ellis and Curry torched the Bulls this year too

Corey
01-19-2012, 07:33 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V2tcKdNUL0 this is rondo's defense when he doesn't gamble and stays in front of his man.

You just posted a video of Rondo leaning on Lebron when Lebron was standing waiting for the shot clock to wind down.

Seriously?

Shammyguy3
01-19-2012, 07:42 PM
6'10 wingspan with better foot work and more tenacious on D

Not only is that a loaded statement, but it's a biased one that holds no substance.



^ Hustle you really do come off as a nut-hugger but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Shammy, I'm a Knick fan and apart from the handful of nationally televised games i've seen from the Bulls, i see both the Celtics and Bulls at least 3 times every year. This is purely anecdotal, but last year when the Knicks devastated the Bulls twice it was "scrubs" like Landry Fields and Toney Douglas lighting Rose up from the perimeter. Not the case with the Celtics.

Apart from what i've seen with my own two eyes, I have looked into the numbers a fair amount. Everyone knows defensive stats in basketball are highly flawed, and i'm not drinking the kool-aid that the best interior defense since Detroit in 04 doesn't help pad Rose's defensive stats.

Like what Haggis said, those stats are from Synergy and isolate the individual defender on plays.

And even if it didn't, how can you say that Rose's defense aids him more than Rondo's has the last couple years when Perkins & Garnett were together?


Rose has posted better defensive metrics than Rondo for about a year and a half now.

Rondo gambles. He used to have Garnett and Perkins to make up for it, but now that Perkins is gone and Garnett has lost a step, Rondo's gambling has hurt the Celtics more than it has helped it. He doesn't stay in front of his man, he's slow on standard rotations, and he fades away from his man into the post far too often.

Exactly.


You just posted a video of Rondo leaning on Lebron when Lebron was standing waiting for the shot clock to wind down.

Seriously?

I'm guessing we lost the debate then :laugh:

Kashmir13579
01-19-2012, 09:26 PM
That's why Shammy used Synergy metrics, which don't take into account team defense, they isolate the individual defender on EVERY play.




BS. Those stats only mean something to me if basketball is a 1v1 game. It isn't. The fact of the matter is that its IMPOSSIBLE to isolate the individual when there are 4 others standing behind him adding ridiculous amounts of variables that have nothing to do with the individual defender.

Shammyguy3
01-19-2012, 09:55 PM
Wrong, Synergy metrics isolate those situations where there was no help defense.

Kashmir13579
01-19-2012, 10:58 PM
Wrong, Synergy metrics isolate those situations where there was no help defense.

And those situations are only a small part of what happens on the defensive end of the court. 5 players on the court impact every defensive sequence in one way or another. All of these defensive metrics are flawed and end up being tossed out the window for the next one every 6 months. The burden of proof is much higher, and in the past has fallen short.

I don't have a problem with advanced metrics and i realize the time of the box score is over; but it isn't time, yet, to buy into the defensive side of advanced basketball stats. They are far from credible at this point, and from what i've read most statisticians acknowledge their glaring inferiority to offensive metrics. No defensive metric is the end-all be-all.

Corey
01-19-2012, 11:29 PM
I've watched literally every minute of Rondo's career with the Celtics.

I think he's vastly overrated on defense, and the stats back that up. :shrug:

Hustlenomics
01-19-2012, 11:36 PM
“ Defensively is where Rondo really made a name for himself as a high school player and initially in college. He has excellent lateral quickness and superbly quick and incredibly big hands. These two things together combined with his length make him a terror getting in the passing lanes, and Rondo indeed has league leading potential in this area if playing for a coach that doesn’t mind him gambling for steals on occasion. He’s extremely smart and confident in his defensive ability, and has the potential to develop into a smothering perimeter defender thanks to all of his outstanding physical attributes and the skills he already shows here. He’s not afraid to step in the lane and take a charge if the situation calls for it. Due to these same physical attributes (length, superb quickness and leaping ability, outstanding hands) Rondo is also a terrific rebounder who indeed led his team in this area from the point guard position. His toughness helps him out greatly in this area, and his Kentucky team would likely have been in very bad shape without his 6+ rebounds in 31 minutes per game. He managed to pull down 19 rebounds in 33 minutes in one extremely impressive performance against Iowa early on in the year.”
-Rajon Rondo NBA Draft Scouting Report: Strengths – 4/17/2005


“Small, skinny player with great length and lateral quickness. Closes out extremely fast on shooters and does a terrific job contesting shots. Tough-minded, aggressive defender who is very effective on this end of the ball. Does an outstanding job getting in the passing lanes, freakish wingspan allows him to wrap his arm around and poke balls loose even after getting beat. Excellent defensive rebounder for his position as well. Size and lack of bulk makes him susceptible to being posted up, but does a nice job fighting back. A big part of why Boston is such a strong defensive team.”

-NBA Scouting Reports, Atlantic Division (Part One) -11/30/2008

He's always been a good defender these are from scouts who go to games and watch and take notes and observe. Not standing on their couch looking up stats because you have to see them defend and pay attention to that. You never see anything like this being said about Derrick Roses defense

Chronz
01-20-2012, 05:27 AM
the stats don't SHOW me how he's defending at all its just numbers you have to judge by what you see. why do nba scouts go to ncaa games to see players for? shoot they can just look at stats now and know who to draft instead of seeing how they play close up. I've been watching Rose since Memphis im not a bandwagon bulls fan that started screaming his name three years ago
Say Im one of those people who doesnt believe in your opinion, could you answer the questions I laid out? Seeing as how youve been watching Rose forever and can accurately memorize his defensive sequences.

Shammyguy3
01-21-2012, 05:45 AM
He's always been a good defender these are from scouts who go to games and watch and take notes and observe. Not standing on their couch looking up stats because you have to see them defend and pay attention to that. You never see anything like this being said about Derrick Roses defense

:laugh2: Except for the article that I posted i'm guessing :rolleyes:

Corey
01-21-2012, 10:01 AM
Made me lol. ^^

FriedTofuz
01-21-2012, 10:58 AM
who cares

Rndy
01-21-2012, 02:26 PM
lol everytime I read hustles post I know I'm in for a good laugh. Huge homer that doesn't know anything other then his team. I've had him blocked for awhile now was just seeing if he got any smarter.

bagwell368
01-21-2012, 03:44 PM
Why do you act like Ronda has never had a quality defense behind him? He had the same luxuries Rose has (Thibs, quality defensive backcourt (KG/Perk), and great team D).

Any you clearly don't know how to correctly apply the stats that Shammy provided. At all.

I'm afraid he does not. The balanced folks on the Celts board can't seem to get through his Rondo/Celtic bias either.

bagwell368
01-21-2012, 03:51 PM
Rose has posted better defensive metrics than Rondo for about a year and a half now.

Rondo gambles. He used to have Garnett and Perkins to make up for it, but now that Perkins is gone and Garnett has lost a step, Rondo's gambling has hurt the Celtics more than it has helped it. He doesn't stay in front of his man, he's slow on standard rotations, and he fades away from his man into the post far too often.

Ding Ding!

Rondo can play great man2man, but he tends to slough off for steals/help/rebounds as if the '07-'10 ERA KG/Perkins was behind him.

Rondo is well known for being stubborn and un-coachable. Perhaps in 2 years he'll realize that he has to alter his game to suit his current conditions.

Hopefully the Celts will deal him before he submarines his value with another brain dead emotional jagoff move like he does just about every year.

bagwell368
01-21-2012, 04:06 PM
Say Im one of those people who doesnt believe in your opinion, could you answer the questions I laid out? Seeing as how youve been watching Rose forever and can accurately memorize his defensive sequences.

Hey Chronz...

Back in early December, he was claiming he could remember specific assists from AI to Kwame Brown 3 seasons ago - (both of whom he both wanted on the Celts - esp AI). I pointed out how few that there actually were - estimating 5-9 given the few games they were together and how little Brown played in some, he found 11. Once he found all the U-tube's, he was of course easily able to remember each and every one.

It seems some think that this particular poster is a homer. "Back home" on the Celts board, I'd have to say he's in a tight battle with 3 other "See no evil" types. Maybe Johnny Most's ghost got to them?

Hustlenomics
01-21-2012, 04:17 PM
im a "homer" but you guys can't prove anything i say about Rondo to be wrong, i never said he's the best player of all time relax


lol everytime I read hustles post I know I'm in for a good laugh. Huge homer that doesn't know anything other then his team. I've had him blocked for awhile now was just seeing if he got any smarter.

i don't take you seriously either rose homer


Hey Chronz...

Back in early December, he was claiming he could remember specific assists from AI to Kwame Brown 3 seasons ago - (both of whom he both wanted on the Celts - esp AI). I pointed out how few that there actually were - estimating 5-9 given the few games they were together and how little Brown played in some, he found 11. Once he found all the U-tube's, he was of course easily able to remember each and every one.

It seems some think that this particular poster is a homer. "Back home" on the Celts board, I'd have to say he's in a tight battle with 3 other "See no evil" types. Maybe Johnny Most's ghost got to them?

i seen AI play that whole season and those assists weren't on youtube guy

Tony_Starks
01-21-2012, 04:20 PM
Everyone has always said Rondo would be exposed on a team without top tier talent. Fast forward to now when his team has aged and he is the leader and "best player on the team." The team is horrible and his numbers are decent.

The end

Hustlenomics
01-21-2012, 04:21 PM
^ that talent has been declining for years and he's getting better :laugh:

Tony_Starks
01-21-2012, 04:30 PM
^ that talent has been declining for years and he's getting better :laugh:


This year the talent literally looks like a joke and if you call 15 and 9 as the best player of the team "getting better" then you are very generous. D Rose played with no Boozer/Noah for the majority of the season last year and Bogans at the 2 but he put the team on his back and carried them. What has Rondo done to show he's elite? His team that he's leading is a laughing stock......

Birdmannn
01-21-2012, 04:37 PM
Everyone has always said Rondo would be exposed on a team without top tier talent. Fast forward to now when his team has aged and he is the leader and "best player on the team." The team is horrible and his numbers are decent.

The end

Whenever people said this I always argued and stood up for Rondo
This season is showing how wrong I am. I hope the Celtics can pull it together and play better to win games.
I still like Rondo's game but im beginning to believe I was wrong thinking he could be successful with anyone on his team.

Rndy
01-21-2012, 04:39 PM
This year the talent literally looks like a joke and if you call 15 and 9 as the best player of the team "getting better" then you are very generous. D Rose played with no Boozer/Noah for the majority of the season last year and Bogans at the 2 but he put the team on his back and carried them. What has Rondo done to show he's elite? His team that he's leading is a laughing stock......

He'll never get it he's blinded. There has been alot of evidence in his face and he still ignores it. He's not very intelligent.

Norieaga
01-21-2012, 04:42 PM
He's a great defensive PG who excels at passing and penetrating. Stop the hate, he's the best player on the C's now.

Hustlenomics
01-21-2012, 04:51 PM
^exactly

This year the talent literally looks like a joke and if you call 15 and 9 as the best player of the team "getting better" then you are very generous.
yep he has a joke of a talent around him and he's averaging nearly 10 assists and rose his scoring up, have you watched him when he was playing the knicks, heat, and mavs? don't tell me he's getting worse laker fan



What has Rondo done to show he's elite? His team that he's leading is a laughing stock......
he led his team to the finals twice with spectacular playoff performances the last four years he sure isn't a scrub

smith&wesson
01-21-2012, 05:16 PM
im pretty sure you guys all understand that Rondo & Rose are completly different players other then that they start at the 1.

NYMetros
01-21-2012, 05:18 PM
Everyone has always said Rondo would be exposed on a team without top tier talent. Fast forward to now when his team has aged and he is the leader and "best player on the team." The team is horrible and his numbers are decent.

The end

He's been the best player on the team since '10, which was the year they made the finals...

Cubs Win
01-21-2012, 05:20 PM
he led his team to the finals twice with spectacular playoff performances the last four years he sure isn't a scrub

He contributed when they went to the Finals. He hardly "led" them there. Now with him leading the team, they are 5-9.

Hustlenomics
01-21-2012, 05:23 PM
^ he didn't even play last night and he's been leading them for years

ManningToTyree
01-21-2012, 05:25 PM
Rondo is my favorite non Knick. If you don't realize he is a very good player then you are bind scoring isn't everything. Steve Nash won two MVPs without breaking 20ppg. Obviously Nash is a great shooter and Rondo is not, but Rondo is an elite defender while Nash is a matador.

Corey
01-21-2012, 05:31 PM
He's been the best player on the team since '10, which was the year they made the finals...

That's why Pierce and KG both had better WS/48 than Rondo in '10, right?

Sportfan
01-21-2012, 05:50 PM
That's why Pierce and KG both had better WS/48 than Rondo in '10, right?

Rondo had the most WS and PER...

NYMetros
01-21-2012, 05:59 PM
Rondo had the most WS and PER...

He also had the highest PER in the playoffs that year.

I'm not a fan of these numbers at all though, I personally think they are pretty stupid.

Tony_Starks
01-21-2012, 06:12 PM
Whenever people said this I always argued and stood up for Rondo
This season is showing how wrong I am. I hope the Celtics can pull it together and play better to win games.
I still like Rondo's game but im beginning to believe I was wrong thinking he could be successful with anyone on his team.


I mean he's still a good pg but people just started believing the hype that he was this elite, top 3 pg, which he is not. When asked to initiate the offense with average players he's looking just that, average.

HouRealCoach
01-21-2012, 06:21 PM
I never saw what was so elite about him... I predicted this years ago

now their record shows

HouRealCoach
01-21-2012, 06:28 PM
He averaged a triple double against a rookie with a young core and he had two hof's

Glen davis averaged all star #s against them...

I seen bonzi wells average 23, 12 against bruce bowen.. did he get called a top sg?

Sportfan
01-21-2012, 06:29 PM
I mean he's still a good pg but people just started believing the hype that he was this elite, top 3 pg, which he is not. When asked to initiate the offense with average players he's looking just that, average.
How is D-Will playing with average talent? Nash? Westbrook would suffer the same fate too if he left OKC.

Rose/Paul are in their own tier of PG's, but the 2nd tier has D-Will, Rondo, Nash and Westbrook all very close to each other. If Lebron can't win with average talent no one can, stop the stupid "oh he cant carry his team" ********

Tony_Starks
01-21-2012, 06:37 PM
How is D-Will playing with average talent? Nash? Westbrook would suffer the same fate too if he left OKC.

Rose/Paul are in their own tier of PG's, but the 2nd tier has D-Will, Rondo, Nash and Westbrook all very close to each other. If Lebron can't win with average talent no one can, stop the stupid "oh he cant carry his team" ********


Um your basically making my point, he's NOT a top tier pg. Some people had been under the optical illusion that he was.

And when Lebron had "average" talent I seem to remember them winning 60+ games on a regular so your point is totally mute.......

bagwell368
01-21-2012, 06:52 PM
Everyone has always said Rondo would be exposed on a team without top tier talent. Fast forward to now when his team has aged and he is the leader and "best player on the team." The team is horrible and his numbers are decent.

The end

Really? Last year he threw away 15 games because he was in a snit over Perk deal.

The result?

The Celts went from fighting for the top seed, to being on the road in the second round.

Last year his stats were well down over the prior two years - which is a lot bigger sample size than this year. He's not even in the top 50 players in this season, so I fail to see a reason to high five him for being the best guy on a team headed to the lottery if this keeps up.

bagwell368
01-21-2012, 07:00 PM
i seen AI play that whole season and those assists weren't on youtube guy

Whatever, the fact is that nobody remembers every assist from a PG they like to a a basic big 3 years after they happened - unless they get assisted by tape.

Your problem is that you only talk up "your" guys, and fight everything said against them - even if it is true. Like the other day on the Celt board when I nailed your post with the starting line "it's only one game", and then presented all the things Rondo has been doing this year - to which you replied that you stopped reading when I said "one game". Why? Afraid of the truth? Rondo is anywhere from brilliant to ridiculously bad - often in the same game. He is pathetic shooting the ball outside of the paint. According to his own coaches and GM he is a well known "stubborn guy" that doesn't practice the way he has been asked to practice. According to reliable sources (and Ainge himself at times) Ainge has shopped him every year except '09 since the title. You think you know Rondo better then Ainge?

He's an exciting and erratic PG. He is the Celts PG, but that itself doesn't make him any better.

NYMetros
01-21-2012, 07:00 PM
Um your basically making my point, he's NOT a top tier pg. Some people had been under the optical illusion that he was.

And when Lebron had "average" talent I seem to remember them winning 60+ games on a regular so your point is totally mute.......

Literally no one thinks Rondo is as good as Paul/Rose. You are arguing with yourself. And I have no idea why you're trying to compare Rondo to LeBron.

bagwell368
01-21-2012, 07:03 PM
He's a great defensive PG who excels at passing and penetrating. Stop the hate, he's the best player on the C's now.

Sorry being the best player on a pathetic team doesn't mean much, and it does not mean he can't be put into the correct place for what he is. He is a non elite and above average NBA PG - with a propensity for emotional and selfish outbursts. Facts.

Tony_Starks
01-21-2012, 07:05 PM
Literally no one thinks Rondo is as good as Paul/Rose. You are arguing with yourself. And I have no idea why you're trying to compare Rondo to LeBron.


No its that no one is saying NOW that Rondo is as good as Paul/Rose because they can't. You've been around for a while, you know full well when the Celtics were making their runs over the years there were almost daily debates about him being in that Paul/Rose "elite" category. It wasn't just us, TNT, espn, everyone was debating it.

As a Celtic fan Im shocked you don't recall this?

bagwell368
01-21-2012, 07:09 PM
yep he has a joke of a talent around him and he's averaging nearly 10 assists and rose his scoring up, have you watched him when he was playing the knicks, heat, and mavs? don't tell me he's getting worse laker fan

Why don't you mention his 7 TOV, sub .400 FG, and sub .700 FT games? He's had as many or more of those then "brilliant" games.


he led his team to the finals twice with spectacular playoff performances the last four years he sure isn't a scrub

This of course is spectacular nonsense. In '07-'08 we was at best the 4th best player on the team and might have arguably been the 6th.

He was a central part of the 2nd Finals of course, but ahead of every Celt player? No, PP and KG both had more to do with getting there then RR.

bagwell368
01-21-2012, 07:15 PM
He's been the best player on the team since '10, which was the year they made the finals...

False, in '09-'10 PP and KG were both better. Last year he started very well, but that whole "wha wha" episode over his best pal Perk getting dealt totally ruined his game from 2-24 to 3-25 (15 games) totally killed the Celts and his year. He was well behind the big 3 - easily.

What do you people actually watch?

PhillyOwnsAll
01-21-2012, 07:25 PM
Rondo is good, not all star caliber though. He made it because of the big 3 and it was the popular thing at the time.

NYMetros
01-21-2012, 07:32 PM
False, in '09-'10 PP and KG were both better. Last year he started very well, but that whole "wha wha" episode over his best pal Perk getting dealt totally ruined his game from 2-24 to 3-25 (15 games) totally killed the Celts and his year. He was well behind the big 3 - easily.

What do you people actually watch?

In the playoffs? Rondo was the best player IMO. He had some amazing games, and would have been finals MVP if they won.

NYMetros
01-21-2012, 07:39 PM
No its that no one is saying NOW that Rondo is as good as Paul/Rose because they can't. You've been around for a while, you know full well when the Celtics were making their runs over the years there were almost daily debates about him being in that Paul/Rose "elite" category. It wasn't just us, TNT, espn, everyone was debating it.

As a Celtic fan Im shocked you don't recall this?

Well I mean in 09-10 Rose wasn't as good as he was last year. It was only his 2nd year in the league. I'm pretty sure it was Chris Paul/Deron Williams and whether Rondo was in that tier with those 2.

YoungOne
01-21-2012, 08:10 PM
In the playoffs? Rondo was the best player IMO. He had some amazing games, and would have been finals MVP if they won.

he tries to hate rondo out of boston, nevermind.

jmoney85
01-21-2012, 08:21 PM
people on this board actually have rubio above rondo.... It simply baffles me

Sportfan
01-21-2012, 08:27 PM
Rondo is good, not all star caliber though. He made it because of the big 3 and it was the popular thing at the time.
Interesting, because Rondo is a lock for the ASG this year.


No its that no one is saying NOW that Rondo is as good as Paul/Rose because they can't. You've been around for a while, you know full well when the Celtics were making their runs over the years there were almost daily debates about him being in that Paul/Rose "elite" category. It wasn't just us, TNT, espn, everyone was debating it.

As a Celtic fan Im shocked you don't recall this?

And I'm shocked you don't remember where CP3 and Rose were at that time? D-Will was getting heavy consideration for top PG....cp3 was hurt and was being called a system PG because of Collison's success and Rose led his team to the meager 8th seed and got embarrassed by Lebron and co. At the time, 75% of non bulls/celtics fans had Rondo above Rose, and the argument could be made for Rondo over Paul at that time.

HouRealCoach
01-21-2012, 08:36 PM
Rondo is my favorite non Knick. If you don't realize he is a very good player then you are bind scoring isn't everything. Steve Nash won two MVPs without breaking 20ppg. Obviously Nash is a great shooter and Rondo is not, but Rondo is an elite defender while Nash is a matador.

Actually Nash went to a below 30 win team and they turned into the best in the league record wise and also led a team with diaw at center to the second seed in the west

YoungOne
01-21-2012, 08:44 PM
Actually Nash went to a below 30 win team and they turned into the best in the league record wise and also led a team with diaw at center to the second seed in the west

this was a great all around team not just steve nash...

HouRealCoach
01-21-2012, 08:58 PM
Actually Nash went to a below 30 win team and they turned into the best in the league record wise and also led a team with diaw at center to the second seed in the west

this was a great all around team not just steve nash...

Still remains a fact that Marion, Amare, Johnson wasn't close to making the playoffs before nash was there

& Marion, Bell, Diaw, Barbosa was a great all around team? really?

Sportfan
01-21-2012, 09:09 PM
Still remains a fact that Marion, Amare, Johnson wasn't close to making the playoffs before nash was there

& Marion, Bell, Diaw, Barbosa was a great all around team? really?
Bell was lockdown on defense, Marion was a do-everything player, Barbosa was 6th man of the year. And then there's Amare.

bagwell368
01-21-2012, 10:01 PM
In the playoffs? Rondo was the best player IMO. He had some amazing games, and would have been finals MVP if they won.

KG, PP, Allen, and Rondo were all about equal - Rondo's advantage overall is he played the most minutes. In the Finals, in only game 2 was he clearly the best Celtic on the floor. He sucked in games 4, 5, and 6. MVP? Ahem.

bagwell368
01-21-2012, 10:02 PM
he tries to hate rondo out of boston, nevermind.

And you make claims that you walk away from.... and thanks for giving me so much credit.

bagwell368
01-21-2012, 10:04 PM
At the time, 75% of non bulls/celtics fans had Rondo above Rose, and the argument could be made for Rondo over Paul at that time.

There has never been a time that Rondo was anywhere near CP3 since they were both in the league, not even close in fact.

Corey
01-22-2012, 09:05 PM
Rondo had the most WS and PER...

I put more stock into WS/48 than PER and WS, personally.

Tony_Starks
01-22-2012, 09:28 PM
There has never been a time that Rondo was anywhere near CP3 since they were both in the league, not even close in fact.


Thank you. And may I also add never, ever, ever, ever! The very notion he was on CP3's level because he was hurt was preposterous at best.....

Hustlenomics
02-04-2012, 12:15 AM
7 assists, 5 boards, 1-4 free throw shooting and clutch defensive plays down the stretch with one eye

Corey
02-04-2012, 12:19 AM
Dude, he played like crap. Not really the right time to try to prove a point. :laugh2:

Duncan = Donkey
02-04-2012, 01:43 AM
Bell was lockdown on defense, Marion was a do-everything player, Barbosa was 6th man of the year. And then there's Amare.

And when Nash was subbed out, they couldn't do **** without him. It was common occurrence for PHX to be up 10-20 and Nash would be subbed out, and that lead would be rubbed out in a matter of minutes.

Hustlenomics
02-05-2012, 05:59 PM
14 assists in a 18 point win game

Hustlenomics
02-12-2012, 09:15 PM
32,15, 10 Enough said

Jint.
02-12-2012, 09:30 PM
Rondo is probally my most hated player, but hes a stud..

GrandDaddyPurp
02-12-2012, 10:12 PM
Why does this lame thread get bumped every time just to post the stats of the most overrated point guard? I mean we have NBA.com and ESPN for this.

I'll probably make one just for DeMarcus Cousins.

69centers
02-12-2012, 11:37 PM
Why does this lame thread get bumped every time just to post the stats of the most overrated point guard? I mean we have NBA.com and ESPN for this.

I'll probably make one just for DeMarcus Cousins.

It's tough to be an overrated PG if you have the most triple doubles by a PG this season. In fact, he has the most triple doubles this year by any player.

2012 Triple Doubles

Iggy (1) 10/10/10
David Lee (1) 25/11/10
Kemba Walker (1) 20/10/11
Kyle Lowry (1) 16/10/10
Rondo (2) 18/11/14 & 32/10/15

Most triple doubles of the season, and best triple double of the season. There is nothing overrated with Rondo. Just haters hating. Best triple double of the year so far is thread worthy.

KBfrom8to24
02-13-2012, 01:17 AM
Too bad that kids nowdays only have interest or consider stars the Chuckers of the game.

Anyway Hustlnomics i dont get it.

Rondo is the COMPLETE Oposit of AI, why do you like him?

Not true. You're just bitter because he was rumored for your fave Gasoft as trade partner.:mad::mad::mad:

sunsfan88
02-13-2012, 01:39 AM
Rondo did his best "Lin" imitation tonight.

NetsPaint
02-13-2012, 01:46 AM
Why did Rondo do a behind the back fake then passed off an easy lay-up for a shot that missed?

Bulls_fan90
02-13-2012, 02:11 AM
32,15, 10 Enough said

Rondo>>Rose.

LA_Raiders
02-13-2012, 02:12 AM
he is alright, but still has long way to go...

GoPacers33
02-13-2012, 02:33 PM
Rondo>>Rose.

agreed

Corey
02-13-2012, 04:06 PM
There is nothing overrated with Rondo.

...not sure if serious

Chronz
02-13-2012, 04:19 PM
ANYONE can be overrated

Even Michael Jordan, so lets stop taking offense to that kind of remark

Corey
02-13-2012, 04:32 PM
ANYONE can be overrated

Even Michael Jordan, so lets stop taking offense to that kind of remark

Exactly.

There's plenty of people that overrate Rondo. There's plenty of people that underrate him. There's plenty of people that rate him somewhere in between.

To say 'there is nothing overrated about Rondo' is absolutely silly, though.

NoahH
02-13-2012, 05:20 PM
IDK what the Celtics are thinking shopping him.

Corey
02-13-2012, 05:55 PM
They're thinking they need a player they can build a team around.

Hustlenomics
02-14-2012, 01:28 AM
Rondo is probally my most hated player, but hes a stud..

Respect.


Rondo>>Rose.

ok lol


IDK what the Celtics are thinking shopping him.

they aren't thinking

Duncan = Donkey
02-14-2012, 03:45 AM
What type of a name is Rajon anyway? *** me

Hustlenomics
02-15-2012, 10:59 PM
35 points, 6 assists, 5 rebounds, 4 steals tonight

Sssmush
02-15-2012, 11:07 PM
he is like the Spider Anderson Silva

fadedmario
02-15-2012, 11:09 PM
35 points, 6 assists, 5 rebounds, 4 steals tonight

In a 10 point loss to the Pistons. ;)

bcc
02-15-2012, 11:53 PM
In a 10 point loss to the Pistons. ;)

Thus, he sucks.

Gritz
02-16-2012, 12:05 AM
he is like the Spider Anderson Silva

So you're saying he has squabbles?

Ty Fast
02-16-2012, 12:11 AM
he's good but not great

ACanadian
02-16-2012, 12:22 AM
So you're saying he has squabbles?

Is it just me or does 'The Spider' look like a stick sometimes? He's so skinny

Sssmush
02-16-2012, 12:53 AM
So you're saying he has squabbles?

no, saying he is badass athletic and amazing

Hustlenomics
02-16-2012, 01:41 AM
In a 10 point loss to the Pistons. ;)

yea while he was on the bench to start the fourth the team let the Pistons get a big lead

jp611
02-16-2012, 11:37 PM
Rondo sucks!

Agar81
02-16-2012, 11:44 PM
^ Thanks for that.

Cub_StuckinSTL
02-16-2012, 11:46 PM
7-17 against a back up PG?

DRose01
02-16-2012, 11:50 PM
that's why every point guard goes under the screen for rondo. other pgs don't respect him. he sucks.

chitownbears89
02-16-2012, 11:50 PM
7-17 against a back up PG?

Right? I feel like MJ got the best of him today.

chicago lulz
02-16-2012, 11:51 PM
Right? I feel like MJ got the best of him today.
Well that's not fair. MJ get's the best of everyone.

jp611
02-16-2012, 11:52 PM
GOAT James>Ronda Aka E.T.

3mikee_
02-16-2012, 11:53 PM
Can't understand how he's been in the league this many years and he can't knock down a 18 foot jumper.

smiddy012
02-16-2012, 11:54 PM
Funny how Rondo and company ***** so much more at refs when theyre at home...

jp611
02-16-2012, 11:55 PM
Where's that economic hustler at to bump this thread?

chicago lulz
02-16-2012, 11:56 PM
Can't understand how he's been in the league this many years and he can't knock down a 18 foot jumper.

Because he's got other players to knock it down for him.

Hustlenomics
02-17-2012, 12:02 AM
5 missed shots because of the shot clock down winding down and he had to throw it up he would have been 7-12 and he got 17 with 8 assists and 7 rebounds. Funny how quiet Bulls fans were when he dropped 32, 15, and 10 the other day

KH12
02-17-2012, 12:04 AM
Miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiike James!

edit: wrong thread

jp611
02-17-2012, 12:10 AM
5 missed shots because of the shot clock down winding down and he had to throw it up he would have been 7-12 and he got 17 with 8 assists and 7 rebounds. Funny how quiet Bulls fans were when he dropped 32, 15, and 10 the other day

Funny how quiet you were when he **** the bed against the raptors

jp611
02-17-2012, 12:18 AM
Rondas defense on the GOAT was astonishing

k.smith904
02-17-2012, 12:18 AM
Mike James' Era.

Hustlenomics
02-17-2012, 12:24 AM
he's getting bashed for getting 17 points, 8 assists, and 7 rebounds? this is why nobody likes Bull fans

k.smith904
02-17-2012, 12:25 AM
he's getting bashed for getting 17 points, 8 assists, and 7 rebounds? this is why nobody likes Bull fans

He's getting bashed because he's as bad a shooter as John Wall.

jp611
02-17-2012, 12:27 AM
he's getting bashed for getting 17 points, 8 assists, and 7 rebounds? this is why nobody likes Bull fans

Were only mocking you for coming in our forum and calling his last game historic :laugh2:

This is why your own fanbase despises you

Cub_StuckinSTL
02-17-2012, 12:29 AM
he's getting bashed for getting 17 points, 8 assists, and 7 rebounds? this is why nobody likes Bull fans

Against a back up PG.....lets be serious here

Hustlenomics
02-17-2012, 12:38 AM
32,15, and 10 with a John wall type shot LOL and he does numbers against every good team

Bulls_fan90
02-17-2012, 02:07 AM
:laugh: Good thread.

Cubs Win
02-19-2012, 09:44 PM
1/6, 5 points, 10 assists, 6 turnovers in a 15 point loss to the Pistons! :laugh2:

Green_Monster
02-19-2012, 09:48 PM
1/6, 5 points, 10 assists, 6 turnovers in a 15 point loss to the Pistons! :laugh2:

1/6 isn't that bad, sense he didn't take many shots. If he was 5/30, I would laugh. He wasn't hitting shots, so he passed more. And he also got ejected or he could have had more points.

Troll... :facepalm:

Cubs Win
02-19-2012, 09:55 PM
1/6 isn't that bad, sense he didn't take many shots. If he was 5/30, I would laugh. He wasn't hitting shots, so he passed more. And he also got ejected or he could have had more points.

Troll... :facepalm:

I thought this was the thread where Rondo's stats get posted?

Do we only tell people about his good games? :rolleyes:

assisi805
02-19-2012, 09:58 PM
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzdabiilyd1r0kjrw.gif

Corey
02-19-2012, 10:00 PM
They only post when Rondo explodes...They dont post when he plays mediocre or bad.

He got ejected tonight for throwing a ball at a ref. Everyones silent. Shocker.

ShakeN'Bake
02-19-2012, 10:00 PM
1/6, 5 points, 10 assists, 6 turnovers in a 15 point loss to the Pistons! :laugh2:

He got tossed from the the game. Will probably be suspended.