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View Full Version : Kevin Love says he is best PF; hasn't commited to Wolves future



beasted86
01-09-2012, 03:13 AM
I believe Im the best 4′ in the league, he said. I think you have to believe that youre the best. I think Mohammad Ali even said, I was the greatest before I knew I was. I think everybody needs to have that mindset. Thats part of winning the mind game from the very start. You have to believe it. You have to hold yourself accountable.

Love was also asked about signing a max contract extension with the Wolves, who are reportedly offering Love 80 million over 5 years.
I dont know, he said. I dont know the answer to that at this point. Its all in my agents (Jeff Schwartz) hands. People can speculate and say what they want, but I will just go out there, play basketball, and help this team win.

Weve heard that line before. Chris Bosh, LeBron James, Chris Paul, and many other players have used the I dont know line, which ended with the superstars leaving their respective franchises.

Considering the Wolves are stacked at the 4 position with Derrick Williams and Michael Beasley both capable of playing power forward, it might be wise to explore a trade if Love doesnt commit to signing the extension.

http://www.rantsports.com/courtcrusades/2012/01/08/kevin-love-says-hes-the-best-pf-in-the-game-wants-out-of-minnesota/

I hope Love can hold himself accountable on the defensive end and in getting his team to the playoffs. Last I checked the best PF in the league lead his team to it's franchise's first NBA championship.

shep33
01-09-2012, 03:22 AM
He shouldn't commit this early in all truth.

Slimsim
01-09-2012, 03:23 AM
I could see love leaving for a semi bigger market. I know he probably want the exposure Blake is getting

THE GIPPER
01-09-2012, 03:25 AM
He is the best PF in the league and if he stays focused he should still improve a lot especially on his 1 on 1 post up game offensively and defensively. I think he'll have an outstanding career when its all said and done. He doesnt rely on athleticism as much as a guy like Blake so he should be able to keep up a very high level of play for a long time.

Ebbs
01-09-2012, 03:28 AM
I hope he stays it's sad seeing stars emerge and grow in one area and than sell out

Cal827
01-09-2012, 03:29 AM
http://www.rantsports.com/courtcrusades/2012/01/08/kevin-love-says-hes-the-best-pf-in-the-game-wants-out-of-minnesota/

I hope Love can hold himself accountable on the defensive end and in getting his team to the playoffs. Last I checked the best PF in the league lead his team to it's franchise's first NBA championship.

To be fair, PF is quite hard to defend b/c of the variation. Dirk is a subpar defender too (the one I'm assuming is the #1 in your opinion). If Minnesota gets a decent center along him (Not Darko), then his defensive numbers will probably look slightly better (even if it does reduce his overall rebounds).

You see, if Howard said something like this to the media, rather than demand out, then he probably woudn't garner as much hate.

I think Love resigns with them if they continue to develop as they are. Once that team starts winning again, there will be media. Love might be looked at as the next KG in Minnesota (not number wise, but by bringing that team to relevance again).

The guys that were mentioned left teams that were basically maxed out in resources and talent for that time, after working hard for 6 or 7 years.

jrm2054
01-09-2012, 03:35 AM
He will leave they all do

VRP723
01-09-2012, 03:37 AM
That's lame, makes me think less of him tbh

Ty Fast
01-09-2012, 03:45 AM
minny could be really good if they play their cards right. they have love, williams, and rubio who all have all star potential and have one of the best coaches in Rick Adelman.

rds1488
01-09-2012, 04:01 AM
d rose will never leave

Confusious
01-09-2012, 04:06 AM
Money says he'll resign and give the Wolves the standard five years to prove to him that they're serious about becoming competitive to keep him happy.

I wouldn't mind if he demanded a trade to Chicago though. Nor would he if it meant Boozer goes the other way/amnestied. Rebounds would become highly competitive with him and Jo though. (Assuming we didn't have to include him in a deal, which we would be fools not to do if that was the asking price.)

I think Love's best move right now is to sign and give them a chance. For the first time in... ever(?), the Timberwolves future is bright, and filled with potential. Let's not forget Kevin is 23 years old. He has loads of time before he gets to experience the *** kissing fest that is known as free agency.

KingsOfQueens
01-09-2012, 04:09 AM
Going going, back back to Cali Cali.

imReallyCHI
01-09-2012, 04:11 AM
love to chicago, i like the idea

D1JM
01-09-2012, 04:12 AM
http://www.rantsports.com/courtcrusades/2012/01/08/kevin-love-says-hes-the-best-pf-in-the-game-wants-out-of-minnesota/

I hope Love can hold himself accountable on the defensive end and in getting his team to the playoffs. Last I checked the best PF in the league lead his team to it's franchise's first NBA championship.

But dirk isn't known for defense :shrug:

Confusious
01-09-2012, 04:21 AM
I hope Love can hold himself accountable on the defensive end and in getting his team to the playoffs. Last I checked the best PF in the league lead his team to it's franchise's first NBA championship.
Love has time to do the same. Doubt it'll be on his current team, or even his franchise, but he has all the skills in the world to lead any team to a championship.

Ask LeBron James what it means to be the best. It's not always about winning championships. Hmm.

Kings&BucsFan
01-09-2012, 04:21 AM
I wouldn't trade him if I were the Wolves. He's still gonna be atleast a restricted free agent.

AddiX
01-09-2012, 04:23 AM
I would feel real bad for minny if they lost him.

I wouldn't want to pay him a max deal, I just don't think he's that kind of player. Max deals IMO are for guys who can take over games and completely change the game.

Love isn't that player, but none of those guys are going to minny anyway, so they need to man up and give him his max.

Spiggity_ace
01-09-2012, 04:34 AM
love should stay, especially with the nucleus they got building over there, i would be excited to be part of that team in all honesty

MagicBucsSox
01-09-2012, 04:53 AM
I'd perfer he replace Dwight than Bynum. Totally proved me wrong coming-out the draft

Knicks21
01-09-2012, 05:10 AM
As he had to provide reasoning, he believes he is not the best pf in the game.

jam
01-09-2012, 05:34 AM
Love and his family endured a lot of abuse after his decision to play at UCLA. I respect him for putting up with that and moving on.

But his noncommittal, flim flam let my agent handle it reply is disappointing. He's got a near max deal on the table, he's the no. 1 option on a young talented team, has a good coach and the future is very bright.

I find his game to be strange as well: he seems fixated on shooting 3's and doesn't have much of a midrange game; it's either putbacks or 3's.

It could work out well for him; Pujols refused to re-sign, in an admittedly not completely parallel situation, and got the biggest deal in baseball by holding out. But Love is not that kind of a player.

There's really no way Love turns out to be a Sprewell caliber knucklehead, but this recent statement suggests he isn't as bright as many had hoped.

naps
01-09-2012, 05:57 AM
I know it's early, but I would be worried if I was a Minny fan. His words had been heard last one year from many superstars and we know how those turned out.

BullsFTW
01-09-2012, 06:08 AM
he had said he wants to play with derrick rose one day, so the possibility of coming to chicago is there. he's a perfect compliment to rose and i'm sure garpax sees that. bulls would have to trade noah + multiple picks for love. the bulls would then have to trade boozer for a first round pick or amnestied him.

a core of rose, love, and deng would give the heat and the rest of the nba a lot of trouble....

MJ-BULLS
01-09-2012, 06:28 AM
he had said he wants to play with derrick rose one day, so the possibility of coming to chicago is there. he's a perfect compliment to rose and i'm sure garpax sees that. bulls would have to trade noah + multiple picks for love. the bulls would then have to trade boozer for a first round pick or amnestied him.

a core of rose, love, and deng would give the heat and the rest of the nba a lot of trouble....

play with rose? really? show me a article or something.

netsgiantsyanks
01-09-2012, 07:31 AM
Going going, back back to Cali Cali.

i don't think so.

BullsFTW
01-09-2012, 09:59 AM
play with rose? really? show me a article or something.


Kevin Love, of the Minnesota Timberwolves, told SI.com that he has talked with both Derrick Rose and Russell Westbrook about playing together at some point in their careers

We all talk about playing together. Its fun to talk about. When the time comes, well assess the situation and figure it out, Love said
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/01/05/another-nba-super-trio/

He said this last year, also....


"They're all on the same page, everybody ... When they break from the huddle, everybody's in. You can tell everybody has the utmost respect for each other and they're all in it to win it. In that regard, I envy that. I salivate for that. I like that a lot."
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-Chicago-Bulls-8217-unity-makes-Kevin-Love-?urn=nba-wp754

He loves how the Bulls play as a team. So technically, he's giving hints that he would love to play for the Bulls, and I would love to have Love in Chicago.

Before the 2008 draft, at one point he was the one player I really wanted the Bulls to draft, then we won the draft lottery, and turned my attention to Rose. But Kevin Love would be the perfect compliment to Rose. In my opinion, giving up Noah for Love is reasonable. Then the Bulls have to trade Boozer, maybe to the Nets? But a core of Rose/Love/Deng would give the Bulls a better shot at winning an NBA title.

kjdills13
01-09-2012, 10:23 AM
Timberwolves- James Harden, 2012 first round pick.

Thunder- Kevin Love


Wolves- Get the 2 guard they NEED bad, it also allows them to give the starting 4 spot to williams who is a stud. If they cant or dont think they will resign love, then they get a STUD in Harden in return.

Thunder- trade there 6th man who is a young and up and coming player, for THE BEST rebounding PF in the league, and one of the best shooting PF in the league. he is ALSO BEST/REALLY good friends with Westbrook, This could keep them both happy and in OKC???


Westbrook
Telfair
Durant
Love
Perkins

That is a team that is scary to face, 3 players who can flat our score, 2 players who play great d. Then 4 players on the court all of who can rebound.

Evolution23
01-09-2012, 10:29 AM
0 playoff appearances and 0 playoff wins for the best PF in the game.

BullsFTW
01-09-2012, 10:45 AM
Timberwolves- James Harden, 2012 first round pick.

Thunder- Kevin Love


Wolves- Get the 2 guard they NEED bad, it also allows them to give the starting 4 spot to williams who is a stud. If they cant or dont think they will resign love, then they get a STUD in Harden in return.

Thunder- trade there 6th man who is a young and up and coming player, for THE BEST rebounding PF in the league, and one of the best shooting PF in the league. he is ALSO BEST/REALLY good friends with Westbrook, This could keep them both happy and in OKC???


Westbrook
Telfair
Durant
Love
Perkins

That is a team that is scary to face, 3 players who can flat our score, 2 players who play great d. Then 4 players on the court all of who can rebound.

Idk if Love wants to be the 3rd option in OKC, but Harden is a terrific player the Wolves can get in return. The thing is, Minnesota is more concern about improving their defense and getting Noah will help them with that. If Derrick Williams shows that he is a potential 20/10 player, then I wouldn't be suprise if the Wolves do trade Love, if he really wants out of Minnesota.

The Bulls and Thunder are the only two teams I see Love being traded to. I give the Bulls the edge just because they can trade the Wolves a starting center.

John Walls Era
01-09-2012, 11:34 AM
0 playoff appearances and 0 playoff wins for the best PF in the game.

I was going to same something harsher but this works.

LakersIn5
01-09-2012, 11:34 AM
I would feel real bad for minny if they lost him.

I wouldn't want to pay him a max deal, I just don't think he's that kind of player. Max deals IMO are for guys who can take over games and completely change the game.

Love isn't that player, but none of those guys are going to minny anyway, so they need to man up and give him his max.

says who? :rolleyes:

seikou8
01-09-2012, 11:38 AM
0 playoff appearances and 0 playoff wins for the best PF in the game.

is that his fault my felow knicks fan its not minny is good dont care how good you are you dont make the playoffs or wins in the playoffs without a good supporting cast and coach

Daunter
01-09-2012, 11:43 AM
http://www.rantsports.com/courtcrusades/2012/01/08/kevin-love-says-hes-the-best-pf-in-the-game-wants-out-of-minnesota/

I hope Love can hold himself accountable on the defensive end and in getting his team to the playoffs. Last I checked the best PF in the league lead his team to it's franchise's first NBA championship.

Tim Ducan is not the best PF in the NBA anymore,may not even be top 5.

BKLYNpigeon
01-09-2012, 11:51 AM
he's leaving. so is Rubio.

BKLYNpigeon
01-09-2012, 11:53 AM
Klove would never be the post player like Duncan.

IndyRealist
01-09-2012, 12:04 PM
http://www.rantsports.com/courtcrusades/2012/01/08/kevin-love-says-hes-the-best-pf-in-the-game-wants-out-of-minnesota/

I hope Love can hold himself accountable on the defensive end and in getting his team to the playoffs. Last I checked the best PF in the league lead his team to it's franchise's first NBA championship.

No one counts defense or Amar'e would never be in the discussion. There was just a thread about "should defend get you in the hall of fame?" Defense accounts for half the game and everyone nods solemnly when you hear "defense wins championships" yet people still look at one dimensional offensive players and how they're the best in the game. Those players get highlight reels, they stuff the boxscore, and they get the big contracts. Does anyone think that if Love makes 2 all-star games (the Derrick Rose rule) he won't get a max contract? No one cares that he doesn't play D because he puts up gaudy numbers.

The truth of the matter is that 90% of pro ballers were the #1 or #2 scoring option for their team in high school, college, or the NBA. Almost all of these guys know how to score, which is exactly why Denver didn't drop off the face of the planet when they traded Melo. They simply get pigeonholed into certain roles because that's what the coaches require. Is Melo a better scorer than Ty Lawson? Yes. Is Denver doing just fine with Ty taking Melo's shots? Yes. (I pick on Melo a lot because the trade made it easy to see. He's playing pretty well this year.)

MacFitz92
01-09-2012, 12:07 PM
Premature. 2011 NBA Finals MVP might have something to say about that.

IndyRealist
01-09-2012, 12:08 PM
I would feel real bad for minny if they lost him.

I wouldn't want to pay him a max deal, I just don't think he's that kind of player. Max deals IMO are for guys who can take over games and completely change the game.

Love isn't that player, but none of those guys are going to minny anyway, so they need to man up and give him his max.

Joe Johnson. Rudy Gay. Amar'e Stoudamire. Gilbert Arenas. Rashard Lewis.

phoenix_bladen
01-09-2012, 12:15 PM
Joe Johnson. Rudy Gay. Amar'e Stoudamire. Gilbert Arenas. Rashard Lewis.

i think u should leave amare out of this

he did have a few western conference finals appearances with the SUNs

and not to mention last year he did lead the knicks single-handledly

they were on the verge of making the playoffs and then they got melo

IndyRealist
01-09-2012, 12:30 PM
i think u should leave amare out of this

he did have a few western conference finals appearances with the SUNs

and not to mention last year he did lead the knicks single-handledly

they were on the verge of making the playoffs and then they got melo

How did he lead the Knicks singlehandedly? I think Raymond Felton, Toney Douglas, and Landry Fields would have something to say about that. This is exactly what I'm talking about, he led the Knicks in scoring pre-Melo. He shot 50% from the floor. Average for a C. He got 8.0 rebounds per 36 minutes. Average. 1.9 blocks, .9 steals, 2.3 assists per 36? Average, average, average. So what did Amare do that was above average? He took 19 shots per game. And he got paid for it.

Amare was much better in Phoenix, but he wasn't even the best player on that team. Definitely not deserving of a max deal.

ManRam
01-09-2012, 12:36 PM
I obviously hope he stays...but I obviously think/know he won't.

And he might be the best PF, but I don't like people spouting off about that stuff. Although, it's the tried "You have to think you're the best" thing...

kjdills13
01-09-2012, 12:46 PM
Wolves- Evan Turner 2012 first round pick

76ers- Kevin Love, new contract, They then Amnesty Brand after the season.

IndyRealist
01-09-2012, 12:49 PM
Wolves- Evan Turner 2012 first round pick

76ers- Kevin Love, new contract, They then Amnesty Brand after the season.

They've got nothing after Love in the post. If he gets traded, they're going to want a big back.

Avenged
01-09-2012, 12:52 PM
Not the best.. Not even top 3 PF right now imo.

This probably means nothing but we've seen stars with that attitude and end up leaving their small market teams.

Hellcrooner
01-09-2012, 01:03 PM
Im gonna take my TWO euroboys over him Yet.

Love is better than both on REBOUNDING but thats it.

Dirk is a better shooter, a better leader, Better IQ a better passer and slightly better deffender.
Pau is better at post game, better at pasing, at court vision, at IQ and A better deffender too ( yep its true strange as it sounds).
Both have taken their teams to playoffs and to rings. ( Paus Grizzlies were similar in talent to this wolves, so lets see if he can take them to playoffs)


But he can seriously be number 3 right now.

Id for sure take him over both Bosh and Stou.

And yeah im completely ignoting Dunking Poster Boy, he is better than Love ( or any of the aforementioned) at NOTHIGN but dunking

SportsAndrew25
01-09-2012, 01:09 PM
He is so gonna leave Minnesota. I think he would love to be on a more competitive franchise than the Timberwolves.

Hellcrooner
01-09-2012, 01:13 PM
He is so gonna leave Minnesota. I think he would love to be on a more competitive franchise than the Timberwolves.

Maybe he is thinking that , but he can be up for a rude awakening.

Say he is traded to lakers for Pau, in principle given age and everything seems like a great deal for Lakers.

Now lets see what happens to his numbers when

1 KObe ( and bynum) are limiting his touches to 12 a game.
2 Bynum is taking a ton of rebounds.

Can he be equally effective on such a role?
DO his intangibles match Paus?

It could be a bad situation for him.

OmahaDro
01-09-2012, 01:31 PM
Kevin Love is one of the best, if not the best. I say no because he needs to work on the defensive side of the ball.

There is no argument he's not top 3 though. A guy that consistently gets you 25 and 15 a night is top notch. Not many players can do that. He can score from anywhere on the court. He gets to the free throw line.

It doesnt matter if he's on a bad team and he gets more chances to score. I hate when people bring that up. Saying "he averages 25ppg because he gets all the shots on a bad team" is an idiotic statement. If your going to use that logic, then I guess Kevin Love is a better scorer than Kobe Bryant. He averages 2 less points per game than Kobe and takes 6 less shots per game.

Cfrey
01-09-2012, 03:10 PM
This is getting ridiculous.

Kevin Love will sign the max and he will be a Wolf for at least 5 more years.

lakerboy
01-09-2012, 03:22 PM
Lol Dirk just won himself a championship. Love has never even managed to go to the playoffs

jpagemn
01-09-2012, 03:35 PM
Lol Dirk just won himself a championship. Love has never even managed to go to the playoffs

Cmon man! This is his fourth year in the league, playing on one of the three worst teams over that time period. Whether or not he is the best is a seperate argument from your statement (which is off base and unfair)

jam
01-09-2012, 03:38 PM
Realistically, he's at the low end of the top 30 players in the nba. He is one of the top 5 or 6 PF's in the league right now, again, at the low end of that list.

Hustlenomics
01-09-2012, 03:42 PM
dirk,amare,aldridge,bosh,grifin

ClippersE.G
01-09-2012, 03:46 PM
a generic white guy who cant jump or play defense...sure he is the the best pf...is Luke Walton the best SF?

Cole World
01-09-2012, 03:55 PM
Kevin Love has easily has the best season by any power forward in the NBA so far, I have no problem with him saying that, the man is balling. Obviously it has been under 10 games, lets see him keep it up all season

AI4MVP
01-09-2012, 04:14 PM
a generic white guy who cant jump or play defense...sure he is the the best pf...is Luke Walton the best SF?

Someone please quote this and put it in their sig with a facepalm. I dont feel like doing it in mine.

tbone2171
01-09-2012, 04:16 PM
He is so gonna leave Minnesota. I think he would love to be on a more competitive franchise than the Timberwolves.

I think the Timberwolves should trade Kevin Love and Ricky Rubio for Iman Shumpert and Michael Sweetney.

tbone2171
01-09-2012, 04:21 PM
a generic white guy who cant jump or play defense...sure he is the the best pf...is Luke Walton the best SF?

You mean this guy?

http://i20.lulzimg.com/i/3cd114.jpg

MickeyMgl
01-09-2012, 04:27 PM
d rose will never leave

Of course not. He's on a contender.

WildcatsPride
01-09-2012, 04:30 PM
Kevin Love is one of the best PFs in the NBA, but I don't think he's the best. Dirk is the best IMO, Lamarcus Aldridge, Pau Gasol, and Amare are pretty good too. Love is definitely top 5 though.

Cfrey
01-09-2012, 04:32 PM
God this is just stupid.

How many people think Blake Griffin is a top 10 player just cause he can jump out of the gym?? It's getting stupid. Just ignorant fans who aren't knowledgeable about the game.

Kevin Love may not be anywhere close to as athletic, but he plays the damn game.

25 and 15 is absurd and he gets absolutely no credit.

People act like the Wolves aren't a competitive franchise.. They went to the playoffs 7 years in a row at one point and went to the Conference Finals one year.

Kevin Love is the star here. You have Ricky Rubio and throw in a potential superstar in Derrick Williams and this team could be at the top in the next few years. (yes I said potential superstar, he can be that good)

ALSO Kevin Love is loyal. He like the Twin Cities.. People forget sometimes that location also plays a determining factor in where someone would like to play.

lakerboy
01-09-2012, 04:32 PM
Cmon man! This is his fourth year in the league, playing on one of the three worst teams over that time period. Whether or not he is the best is a seperate argument from your statement (which is off base and unfair)

How can you call yourself the best PF in the league when you do not have any record of success? At the end of the day, getting 20 pts and 10 rebs a game is worthless when your team is still crappy.

I agree with what you said. Him being in the league 4 years doesn't help his case. Thus, he is not the PF in the game. Dirk is!! C'mon, dont you guys remember the championship last summer???

jpagemn
01-09-2012, 04:47 PM
How can you call yourself the best PF in the league when you do not have any record of success? At the end of the day, getting 20 pts and 10 rebs a game is worthless when your team is still crappy.

I agree with what you said. Him being in the league 4 years doesn't help his case. Thus, he is not the PF in the game. Dirk is!! C'mon, dont you guys remember the championship last summer???

Kevin Love's 20 12 streak to start the season has gotten a lot of press. He is the first to do that since the 75-76 season, when Kareem did it, for the Lakers. They failed to make the playoffs that year. Did that diminish what he did? Of course not.

Also, if you read the whole comment, he is saying it is a mindset, and he is 100% correct. When you are at or near the top, you need that mindset, night it and night out.

Finally, and most importantly, you have your opinion and I have mine. We have both stated ours, and that's cool. We disagree.

MJ-BULLS
01-09-2012, 04:55 PM
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/01/05/another-nba-super-trio/

He said this last year, also....


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-Chicago-Bulls-8217-unity-makes-Kevin-Love-?urn=nba-wp754

He loves how the Bulls play as a team. So technically, he's giving hints that he would love to play for the Bulls, and I would love to have Love in Chicago.

Before the 2008 draft, at one point he was the one player I really wanted the Bulls to draft, then we won the draft lottery, and turned my attention to Rose. But Kevin Love would be the perfect compliment to Rose. In my opinion, giving up Noah for Love is reasonable. Then the Bulls have to trade Boozer, maybe to the Nets? But a core of Rose/Love/Deng would give the Bulls a better shot at winning an NBA title.

dude i remember that now, all we need him is to be become a FA or request a trade. :clap:

Big2win
01-09-2012, 05:05 PM
Why should Kevin Love show loyalty to the Timberwolves when they drafted another player who plays the same position after his breakout year. They could have drafted Williams and traded him for some complimentary pieces. They also drafted too many PGs. Its clear the Timberwolves aren't that in "Love" with Kevin or they never would have drafted Williams. Draft for your teams' need along with the talent thats available.

Cfrey
01-09-2012, 05:15 PM
LOL they drafted Williams cause he was the best player in the draft! And he will be able to play the 3 fine so chill nig

FriedTofuz
01-09-2012, 05:26 PM
magic should go after him, although hes going to be a restricted free agent and the wolves will offer him the max. He is no doubt the best PF in the nba as of right now. Yes, hes even better than dirk

beasted86
01-09-2012, 05:32 PM
What do I know... but I don't recall the best player at any position missing the playoffs with his team.

The western conference is as weak, and as wide open as it's been in a long time. I'm sure if the Wolves miss the playoffs again, the convenient thing to say is Rick Adelman didn't have time to instill his system because of the lockout.

FriedTofuz
01-09-2012, 05:34 PM
What do I know... but I don't recall the best player at any position missing the playoffs with his team.

The western conference is as weak, and as wide open as it's been in a long time. I'm sure if the Wolves miss the playoffs again, the convenient thing to say is Rick Adelman didn't have time to instill his system because of the lockout.

You have to understand, the team was a lottery team at the time and was really bad. One person cant amazingly transform the francise. Look at bosh when he didnt even make the playoffs, he averaged 24 and 11, would you put him ahead of kevin love?

beasted86
01-09-2012, 05:49 PM
You have to understand, the team was a lottery team at the time and was really bad. One person cant amazingly transform the francise. Look at bosh when he didnt even make the playoffs, he averaged 24 and 11, would you put him ahead of kevin love?

1st, Bosh all his years in Toronto never finished with the 1st or 2nd worst record in the NBA. Love has finished with the 2nd worst in 2010, and 1st worst in 2011... even worse than a Cavs team that lost 27 straight. This goes without adding that when Bosh averaged 24/11 his team was a lot better than bottom two and almost made the playoffs.

2nd, yes, one person can clearly amazingly transform a franchise as given by the departure of LeBron James and the demise of the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Nobody has claimed Love is as good as LeBron, but they have compared his statistics regularly to all-time greats, and Love claims to be the best PF in the NBA, which like I said above, the best player at any position has not missed the playoffs. Not even the 3rd, 4th, or 5th best at any given position.

If somebody can find even 1 single exception to that rule, I will give Love leeway. Somebody please show me where the 1st thru 5th best player at any position over the past 20 years finished dead last in the overall standings and played 65 games or more.

jpagemn
01-09-2012, 05:51 PM
What do I know... but I don't recall the best player at any position missing the playoffs with his team.
The western conference is as weak, and as wide open as it's been in a long time. I'm sure if the Wolves miss the playoffs again, the convenient thing to say is Rick Adelman didn't have time to instill his system because of the lockout.

Was Kareem the best Center in 75?

beasted86
01-09-2012, 05:54 PM
Was Kareem the best Center in 75?

Probably. Who knows, I wasn't even born yet.

But without looking, I can bet his team (Bucks? Lakers) did not finish dead last, and probably not bottom 5.

jpagemn
01-09-2012, 06:01 PM
Probably. Who knows, I wasn't even born yet.

But without looking, I can bet his team (Bucks? Lakers) did not finish dead last, and probably not bottom 5.

Lakers, 75-76 season. And you are right, they I think were sixth back then in the conference, not dead last. But they did miss the playoffs. That was my whole point.

To be fair, I have been thinking about this, and commenting on it, as well as talking to friends at work, and this is a tough argument. I think I can fairly say he is top three, because I rank him higher than Griffin, and that is JUST this year, which is a small sample size. But I can see where other people rank him lower, and that's ok, too.

shizzle09
01-09-2012, 06:15 PM
best PF???? lol, maybe in fantasy leagues. Love plays awful defense.

iliketurtles24
01-09-2012, 06:16 PM
I think he is the best, but to all the haters, i think he still has to prove it... playoffs?

iliketurtles24
01-09-2012, 06:17 PM
best PF???? lol, maybe in fantasy leagues. Love plays awful defense.

No he does not.

Hawkeye15
01-09-2012, 06:38 PM
soooo, whats going on in here? Love can't play any defense, his team sucks, he is going to the Lakers, Knicks, or another contender? No way he stays in Minnesota? Isn't worth the max?

Lemme know if I missed something.

OC Knights #11
01-09-2012, 06:42 PM
d rose will never leave

Not yet...if the Bulls continue to surround Rose with mediocre talent then yeah he's gone after his contract.

Cfrey
01-09-2012, 06:44 PM
LOVE IS THE FU CK IN man okay kids

Evolution23
01-09-2012, 07:11 PM
is that his fault my felow knicks fan its not minny is good dont care how good you are you dont make the playoffs or wins in the playoffs without a good supporting cast and coach

He has a good team this year. If they miss the playoffs this year by a wide margin than he isn't a true superstar.

Evolution23
01-09-2012, 07:13 PM
How did he lead the Knicks singlehandedly? I think Raymond Felton, Toney Douglas, and Landry Fields would have something to say about that. This is exactly what I'm talking about, he led the Knicks in scoring pre-Melo. He shot 50% from the floor. Average for a C. He got 8.0 rebounds per 36 minutes. Average. 1.9 blocks, .9 steals, 2.3 assists per 36? Average, average, average. So what did Amare do that was above average? He took 19 shots per game. And he got paid for it.

Amare was much better in Phoenix, but he wasn't even the best player on that team. Definitely not deserving of a max deal.

Stats tell half the story. He carried the Knicks on his back with a decent amount of roll players. You can't tell me the Knicks had another legit allstar. The Knicks cast was similar to this year's Timberwolves. So lets see what Love is made of.

Evolution23
01-09-2012, 07:19 PM
How can you call yourself the best PF in the league when you do not have any record of success? At the end of the day, getting 20 pts and 10 rebs a game is worthless when your team is still crappy.

I agree with what you said. Him being in the league 4 years doesn't help his case. Thus, he is not the PF in the game. Dirk is!! C'mon, dont you guys remember the championship last summer???

Exactly. I remember Zbo putting up similar numbers in Portland but they were still not a playoff team. Numbers don't mean anything if your team doesn't mean.

Evolution23
01-09-2012, 07:22 PM
1st, Bosh all his years in Toronto never finished with the 1st or 2nd worst record in the NBA. Love has finished with the 2nd worst in 2010, and 1st worst in 2011... even worse than a Cavs team that lost 27 straight. This goes without adding that when Bosh averaged 24/11 his team was a lot better than bottom two and almost made the playoffs.

2nd, yes, one person can clearly amazingly transform a franchise as given by the departure of LeBron James and the demise of the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Nobody has claimed Love is as good as LeBron, but they have compared his statistics regularly to all-time greats, and Love claims to be the best PF in the NBA, which like I said above, the best player at any position has not missed the playoffs. Not even the 3rd, 4th, or 5th best at any given position.

If somebody can find even 1 single exception to that rule, I will give Love leeway. Somebody please show me where the 1st thru 5th best player at any position over the past 20 years finished dead last in the overall standings and played 65 games or more.

Well put Heat fan. I will not hate you today. :D

KingPosey
01-09-2012, 07:57 PM
Joe Johnson. Rudy Gay. Amar'e Stoudamire. Gilbert Arenas. Rashard Lewis.

In all fairness, at one point in time, that dude could completely take over a game.

shizzle09
01-09-2012, 08:02 PM
No he does not.

umm yeah he does. he's awful. he was awful at UCLA and is awful at it now. i understand you have those timberwolve blinders on though. its ok. He's good at everything else though

shizzle09
01-09-2012, 08:07 PM
soooo, whats going on in here? Love can't play any defense, his team sucks, he is going to the Lakers, Knicks, or another contender? No way he stays in Minnesota? Isn't worth the max?

Lemme know if I missed something.

that about coves it! :D

jpagemn
01-09-2012, 08:09 PM
1st, Bosh all his years in Toronto never finished with the 1st or 2nd worst record in the NBA. Love has finished with the 2nd worst in 2010, and 1st worst in 2011... even worse than a Cavs team that lost 27 straight. This goes without adding that when Bosh averaged 24/11 his team was a lot better than bottom two and almost made the playoffs.

2nd, yes, one person can clearly amazingly transform a franchise as given by the departure of LeBron James and the demise of the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Nobody has claimed Love is as good as LeBron, but they have compared his statistics regularly to all-time greats, and Love claims to be the best PF in the NBA, which like I said above, the best player at any position has not missed the playoffs. Not even the 3rd, 4th, or 5th best at any given position.

If somebody can find even 1 single exception to that rule, I will give Love leeway. Somebody please show me where the 1st thru 5th best player at any position over the past 20 years finished dead last in the overall standings and played 65 games or more.

Just one? Pau has been considered by many on this thread as top five at his position. In 06-07 he averaged a shade over 20 and 10, and his Grizz were dead last.

beasted86
01-09-2012, 08:17 PM
Just one? Pau has been considered by many on this thread as top five at his position. In 06-07 he averaged a shade over 20 and 10, and his Grizz were dead last.

I don't think in 07 Gasol was a top 5 PF.

The concensus top 5 around 06-07 was Duncan, Dirk, Garnett, Amare, Bosh.

4 out of 5 of those guys went to the playoffs, and none were dead last in standings. If you feel Gasol was better than any of those 5 guys that year, feel free to make your case.

LA_Raiders
01-09-2012, 08:20 PM
so much for low market teams to keep their star players...

AI4MVP
01-09-2012, 08:23 PM
soooo, whats going on in here? Love can't play any defense, his team sucks, he is going to the Lakers, Knicks, or another contender? No way he stays in Minnesota? Isn't worth the max?

Lemme know if I missed something.

Yep just like Rubio was never going to come to Minnesota and hes going to be a huge bust

jpagemn
01-09-2012, 08:33 PM
I don't think in 07 Gasol was a top 5 PF.

The concensus top 5 around 06-07 was Duncan, Dirk, Garnett, Amare, Bosh.

4 out of 5 of those guys went to the playoffs, and none were dead last in standings. If you feel Gasol was better than any of those 5 guys that year, feel free to make your case.

Well, two slight problems with that argument. The first is a bit nit picky, but 06--07 Amare was nearly identical to Pau. I would bet PSD, if it was around back then, had a few threads that argued that for me.

Second, and more importantly, your logic in saying he was not top five in 06-07 lets in the argument that we are talking about this year for Love, and if we ARE talking about this year, he is not now in dead last, nor will he be at years end. Further, if the Wolves DO make the playoffs is year, this whole line of thought, by your logic, is no longer credible.

beasted86
01-09-2012, 08:55 PM
Well, two slight problems with that argument. The first is a bit nit picky, but 06--07 Amare was nearly identical to Pau. I would bet PSD, if it was around back then, had a few threads that argued that for me.

Second, and more importantly, your logic in saying he was not top five in 06-07 lets in the argument that we are talking about this year for Love, and if we ARE talking about this year, he is not now in dead last, nor will he be at years end. Further, if the Wolves DO make the playoffs is year, this whole line of thought, by your logic, is no longer credible.

For the 1st part, like I said, plead your case. Because just a quick check what I saw was Amare being a more efficient scorer than Pau, and putting up near identical production in 4 less minutes per game. I was using a different basketball forum in '07, but I don't recall anyone saying Gasol was better than Amare until he became a Laker. Gasol suffered from what Bosh had gone thru but to an extent even worse because Memphis was an even smaller market than Toronto. But being completely honest, I don't know anyone who thought Gasol was better than Amare back then, and looking at their stats I see the same even now.

And by the 2nd part, we are chasing our tails here then... because by accepting the original logic that a top 5 PF wouldn't allow his team to be dead last in the standings, then following common sense thinking we can conclude that it's not possible for a player to jump from below top 5 in his given position to number 1 in his given position because of only 8 games at the beginning of a new season. That's just absurd.

So if we are excluding last season and only talking about this season, and does jump into the top 5 of his position, it will in the end fall in line with that same logic anyway, no top 5 player at any position would let his team finish dead last in the NBA if he is healthy and played a majority of the games.

I think Love will be top 5 by season end, but to be #1, IMO he needs to get his team to the playoffs.

jpagemn
01-09-2012, 09:01 PM
For the 1st part, like I said, plead your case. Because just a quick check what I saw was Amare being a more efficient scorer than Pau, and putting up near identical production in 4 less minutes per game. I was using a different basketball forum in '07, but I don't recall anyone saying Gasol was better than Amare until he became a Laker. Gasol suffered from what Bosh had gone thru but to an extent even worse because Memphis was an even smaller market than Toronto. But being completely honest, I don't know anyone who thought Gasol was better than Amare back then, and looking at their stats I see the same even now.

And by the 2nd part, we are chasing our tails here then... because by accepting the original logic that a top 5 PF wouldn't allow his team to be dead last in the standings, then following common sense thinking we can conclude that it's not possible for a player to jump from below top 5 in his given position to number 1 in his given position because of only 8 games at the beginning of a new season. That's just absurd.

So if we are excluding last season and only talking about this season, and does jump into the top 5 of his position, it will in the end fall in line with that same logic anyway, no top 5 player at any position would let his team finish dead last in the NBA if he is healthy and played a majority of the games.

I think Love will be top 5 by season end, but to be #1, IMO he needs to get his team to the playoffs.

All good points. That last sentence is dead on, as well.

beasted86
01-09-2012, 09:07 PM
All good points. That last sentence is dead on, as well.

Oh, and BTW, Gasol only played 59 games in 06-07 anyway. He didn't even fill the qualifier. :laugh2:

jpagemn
01-09-2012, 09:22 PM
damn, foiled again! Nice discussion, BTW. You know your stuff, and I appreciate that.

Cal827
01-09-2012, 09:48 PM
I guess I'm the only one who thinks he'll stay? lol

deaner
01-09-2012, 10:59 PM
Amir Johnson absolutely shut him down tonight.

NYKnicks4511
01-09-2012, 11:39 PM
Stephon Marbury, you giving advice to Love?

BullsFTW
01-09-2012, 11:43 PM
dude i remember that now, all we need him is to be become a FA or request a trade. :clap:

yup. if he doesn't the max extension, he's done in minnesota. i'm telling you, garpax will find a way to get him. we have the assets to offer minnesota. boozer/asik/picks or noah/picks.

AddiX
01-09-2012, 11:44 PM
Minny fans can deny it all they want, but my stance that Beasley is the only go to scorer they have is looking true to me.

You need a player or 2 who you cam give the ball anywhere on the court and say get me a bucket. Love sure as heck doesn't have that ability.

Minny fans need to show Beasley some appreciation IMO.

AddiX
01-09-2012, 11:45 PM
yup. if he doesn't the max extension, he's done in minnesota. i'm telling you, garpax will find a way to get him. we have the assets to offer minnesota. boozer/asik/picks or noah/picks.

If they don't give love a max contract you think they are going to want boozer? :facepalm:

BullsFTW
01-09-2012, 11:50 PM
If they don't give love a max contract you think they are going to want boozer? :facepalm:

with kahn, anything is possible....

ragee
01-09-2012, 11:56 PM
When he starts putting Ws on the wolves record, that is when I will believe he is the best PF in the league. I will still pick LA over him right now.

PurpleJesus
01-09-2012, 11:57 PM
with kahn, anything is possible....

such an invalid argument "well, they have Kahn, so we will get Love." Bulls do not have the assets, or the cap room to trade for Love, stop salivating over another teams player that is unrealistically within reach.

Geargo Wallace
01-09-2012, 11:59 PM
Minny fans can deny it all they want, but my stance that Beasley is the only go to scorer they have is looking true to me.

You need a player or 2 who you cam give the ball anywhere on the court and say get me a bucket. Love sure as heck doesn't have that ability.

Minny fans need to show Beasley some appreciation IMO.

I don't know why chuckers are considered scorers. They score because they get the attempts and haven't seen a shot that they don't like. Beasley is only a "scorer" because he doesn't do much else.

AddiX
01-10-2012, 12:08 AM
When your the only scorer on the team your allowed to chuck, that's how it works.

Dolfan305
01-10-2012, 12:11 AM
The Timberwolves have been in the basement of the West since Love has been there. They had the worst record in the league last season and are 3-6 this year. Just can't be considered the best PF in the league when your team is perennially awful.

Evolution23
01-10-2012, 12:55 AM
Khan will take 3 more point guards for Love if he decides to leave.

MagicBucsSox
01-10-2012, 01:12 AM
3team trade Dwight to LA, bynum to minny and love Johnson to orl

3mikee_
01-10-2012, 01:20 AM
He is the best.. why is this news

Sota4Ever
01-10-2012, 01:32 AM
A Khan joke about pgs. Could have seen that one coming. especially from a knicks fan

i.got.the.nutz
01-10-2012, 01:38 AM
If Kevin Love is the first option, the Wolves will never be contenders. Anyone that isn't blind can see this. He is not someone that can carry a team on offense or defense. He would be a great second or third option on a team where he isn't required to score for the team to succeed.

Tanakid777
01-10-2012, 01:42 AM
But dirk isn't known for defense :shrug:

He isn't nearly as bad as most people (ESPN-*****) think. Better than Love on that end by a considerable margin

PrettyBoyJ
01-10-2012, 01:42 AM
3team trade Dwight to LA, bynum to minny and love Johnson to orl

That's actually a good trade.. Don't kno if the numbes add up but all 3 teams end up with a good deal..

BullsFTW
01-10-2012, 01:57 AM
If Kevin Love is the first option, the Wolves will never be contenders. Anyone that isn't blind can see this. He is not someone that can carry a team on offense or defense. He would be a great second or third option on a team where he isn't required to score for the team to succeed.

I agree with Love as a 2nd option. He's a perfect compliment to a start player like Rose.

i.got.the.nutz
01-10-2012, 02:05 AM
I agree with Love as a 2nd option. He's a perfect compliment to a start player like Rose.

I agree. Love and Durant would be amazing as well.

BullsFTW
01-10-2012, 02:12 AM
I agree. Love and Durant would be amazing as well.

yup. but durant and westbrook compliment each other better, and i don't care what others say. they just need to smooth things out. durant's finesse and westbrook's athleticism meshes really well together.

rose's play and love's meshes really well together. love is the player that can open the lanes for rose on a consistent basis.