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View Full Version : Is King James the best two way player in the NBA?



Longhornfan1234
01-05-2012, 04:03 PM
King James locked up Danny Granger.


Granger shot 2 out 13 and only had 6 measly points.


:worthy::worthy:

SportsFanatic10
01-05-2012, 04:04 PM
hes the best player period, but one game doesn't really mean that much.

Hawkeye15
01-05-2012, 04:05 PM
has been for 2-3 seasons. He is by far and away the best two way player over the past 15 months.

Rentzias
01-05-2012, 04:06 PM
Yes, but not because LeBron James "limited" Danny Granger in one game, who also shot 4-15 against Detroit and 4-14 against New Jersey in the two previous games.

haggis
01-05-2012, 04:06 PM
Holding Danny Granger to 2 of 13 shooting made you come to this conclusion?

Ebbs
01-05-2012, 04:09 PM
I'd say he's been the best 2 way player for 3 years.

bovice163
01-05-2012, 04:09 PM
If he's the best player in the game, then he's the best two way player in the game. Granger is a chucker and a black hole. I only watched pieces of the game, but it's not difficult to keep Granger on the perimeter, since he settles for jumpshots all the time. Hardly one of LBJ's better performances.

Cal827
01-05-2012, 04:10 PM
Nope, it's Chris Bosh. I think we can all agree that he goes equally hard both ways :D

Cal827
01-05-2012, 04:11 PM
On a serious note, definitely the best overall player out there. It's funny cause Miami might have the best 1 and 2 players on the two way game, as Wade is an excellent defender and is able to steal and block, which isn't too common for SGs.

DeRozan10
01-05-2012, 04:12 PM
Nah probably not

Hustlenomics
01-05-2012, 04:13 PM
king james?

John Walls Era
01-05-2012, 04:13 PM
He is and should be with his talent.

AntiG
01-05-2012, 04:13 PM
James is the best player in the NBA period, and pretty much in every aspect except getting it done in the finals.

SportsFanatic10
01-05-2012, 04:14 PM
Nah probably not

lets hear who is in your opinion then and why. d12? kobe?

Gators123
01-05-2012, 04:18 PM
Yeah, but not because he shut down overrated Danny Granger.

Swashcuff
01-05-2012, 04:18 PM
No he isn't. MIKE :worthy: G.O.A.T. :worthy: JAMES is. He's BACK!!!!

OptiMized
01-05-2012, 04:20 PM
of course he's the best. I think in this short season a team like Maimi might benefit the most. I (like alot of ppl)predict they win the ship.

Corey
01-05-2012, 04:20 PM
Wade's name should be in consideration as well if we're talking about other great 2-way guys.

Side note: Granger's sucked this year, it was a combination of James' defense and Granger continuing his constant digression.

Swashcuff
01-05-2012, 04:25 PM
Wade's name should be in consideration as well if we're talking about other great 2-way guys.

Side note: Granger's sucked this year, it was a combination of James' defense and Granger continuing his constant digression.

Granger is the only player in league history to increase his scoring by at least 5 ppg in each of his 1st 4 seasons in the league. Since then it's been nothing but downhill.

He's my favourite player in the league currently but his play these past few years has been underwhelming (at least IMO). I really expected him to become perennial 24+ ppg scorer but his limited offensive arsenal is really showing to be his downfall. His defense has also taken a small step back. Really hoping his able to get it together.

Yanks All Day
01-05-2012, 04:31 PM
LeBron James has been the best 2 way player in the NBA for the last 3 years.

Khalifa21
01-05-2012, 04:44 PM
He's the best two way player since KG and TD were in their primes.. I personally think he'll go down in history with those two, Hakeem, D Rob and MJ as the best two way players to ever play the game.

nickdymez
01-05-2012, 04:59 PM
and it aint even close

Teeboy1487
01-05-2012, 05:03 PM
Not surprised, Lebron James is the best player in the game and is a defensive monster. He can easily get defensively player of the year.

ClippersE.G
01-05-2012, 07:44 PM
If by 2 way player you mean all he does is dunk/layup or leak and dunk/layup then yeah, he is the best

Swashcuff
01-05-2012, 08:10 PM
If by 2 way player you mean all he does is dunk/layup or leak and dunk/layup then yeah, he is the best

Had LeBron gone to LAC when he was a FA you'd be the first person in threads like these singing his praises.

Vinylman
01-05-2012, 08:11 PM
Regular Season... sure

Playoffs... not so much...

Nick O
01-05-2012, 08:15 PM
... probabaly.. love to Wade and D12 tho

billsftw
01-05-2012, 08:16 PM
lets hear who is in your opinion then and why. d12? kobe?

hes a raptors fan whose butthurt over Chris Bosh leaving
just ignore him
he probabaly thinks DeRozan is going to stay :rolleyes:

Nick O
01-05-2012, 08:20 PM
hes a raptors fan whose butthurt over Chris Bosh leaving
just ignore him
he probabaly thinks DeRozan is going to stay :rolleyes:

derozen did say he was going to stay :P although as a raptor fan Bosh is still my favorite player.. not sure why still anyone would be butt hurt.. i knew he was leaving pretty much when the season started

knightstemplar
01-05-2012, 08:23 PM
has been for 2-3 seasons. He is by far and away the best two way player over the past 15 months.
That is why he dominated the Finals last June leading them to a championship
17.8 PPG:worthy:
3 points per 4th quarter:worthy:

JordansBulls
01-05-2012, 08:27 PM
Dwight, Wade can be argued, Duncan and Kobe when you consider guys from this era as well.

NSJ
01-05-2012, 08:30 PM
Dwight, Wade can be argued, Duncan and Kobe when you consider guys from this era as well.


Don't think Dwight can be argued at all, his offense is weak.

gbrl
01-05-2012, 08:32 PM
If by 2 way player you mean all he does is dunk/layup or leak and dunk/layup then yeah, he is the best

sounds like blake griffin

Htownballa1622
01-05-2012, 08:32 PM
That is why he dominated the Finals last June leading them to a championship
17.8 PPG:worthy:
3 points per 4th quarter:worthy:

Then who is your pick?

Khalifa21
01-05-2012, 08:33 PM
Then who is your pick?

Kobe obviously.. :rolleyes:

knightstemplar
01-05-2012, 08:34 PM
Then who is your pick?
Lebron James as of right now

Htownballa1622
01-05-2012, 08:35 PM
Kobe obviously.. :rolleyes:

figured... Someone a part of a team that was swept.hmmm....

Htownballa1622
01-05-2012, 08:36 PM
Lebron James as of right now

Who was it and who will it be? Your sarcastic post made it seem like you thought differently

knightstemplar
01-05-2012, 08:39 PM
Who was it and who will it be? Your sarcastic post made it seem like you thought differently
Lebron right now

And my sarcastic post was for this "has been for 2-3 seasons. He is by far and away the best two way player over the past 15 months."
Didn't look like it in the Finals when he was the 5th leading scorer, bench player Jason Terry averaged more points than him

Htownballa1622
01-05-2012, 08:51 PM
Lebron right now

And my sarcastic post was for this "has been for 2-3 seasons. He is by far and away the best two way player over the past 15 months."
Didn't look like it in the Finals when he was the 5th leading scorer, bench player Jason Terry averaged more points than him

Ah gotcha. Well NBA players occasionally have bad series'.

Anyways. Answer is Lebron.

and has been for a bit now.

d nuggets fan
01-05-2012, 08:58 PM
I heard a commentator say it today - not my quote but totally agree "LeBron is the only player in the history of the NBA to avg 30 points a game and that not be his best effect on the game"

Khalifa21
01-05-2012, 08:59 PM
Ah gotcha. Well NBA players occasionally have bad series'.

Anyways. Answer is Lebron.

and has been for a bit now.

Dude, c'mon.. Use your head.

Judging a player on a 6 game series is much more effective than using 250+ games over his last three seasons...

Htownballa1622
01-05-2012, 09:05 PM
Dude, c'mon.. Use your head.

Judging a player on a 6 game series is much more effective than using 250+ games over his last three seasons...

:laugh: true haha

C-Style
01-05-2012, 09:06 PM
Nope, Dwight is. Higher FG% and >>>>>>>Defense

beliges
01-05-2012, 09:14 PM
Lebron is the best player in the league during the regular season. He has been for the past few years. In the playoffs however, well thats a completely different story.

Khalifa21
01-05-2012, 09:28 PM
Nope, Dwight is. Higher FG% and >>>>>>>Defense

So by your criteria DeAndre Jordan is better on offense than Dwight?

65% >>> 58%

JordansBulls
01-05-2012, 09:29 PM
Don't think Dwight can be argued at all, his offense is weak.

What??? Dude averaged 23 ppg last year. And this year is at 19 ppg.

JordansBulls
01-05-2012, 09:33 PM
Dude, c'mon.. Use your head.

Judging a player on a 6 game series is much more effective than using 250+ games over his last three seasons...

No it's not. The finals is a different beast. If you don't do well on the ACT or SAT no matter if you are a straight A student you aren't gettiing into schools like Harvard or Yale or Columbia.

If you are an accountant and have gotten your Bachelor's and Master's degree but you don't pass the CPA exam then your degree is worthless.

bucketss
01-05-2012, 09:35 PM
Nope, Dwight is. Higher FG% and >>>>>>>Defense

LOL, are you implying that because of fg% hes better on offense

bucketss
01-05-2012, 09:36 PM
Lebron is the best player in the league during the regular season. He has been for the past few years. In the playoffs however, well thats a completely different story.

its not a completely different story, he is one of the top playoff performers in the league today

beliges
01-05-2012, 09:38 PM
its not a completely different story, he is one of the top playoff performers in the league today

Well yea, hes ONE of the top performers. But certainly not the best performer. Furthermore, D Rose has a better regular season last year. Its not as much as a given as people want to make it out to be. Lebron's a great player, but his level of play decreases in the post season.

Khalifa21
01-05-2012, 09:40 PM
No it's not. The finals is a different beast. If you don't do well on the ACT or SAT no matter if you are a straight A student you aren't gettiing into schools like Harvard or Yale or Columbia.

If you are an accountant and have gotten your Bachelor's and Master's degree but you don't pass the CPA exam then your degree is worthless.

Awful analogy.

Look at the sample size... 6 games or 250 games? I don't care if you think 'the finals is a different beast'.. I would rather judge a player over a much longer stretch than such a short sample size.

bucketss
01-05-2012, 09:41 PM
Well yea, hes ONE of the top performers. But certainly not the best performer. Furthermore, D Rose has a better regular season last year. Its not as much as a given as people want to make it out to be. Lebron's a great player, but his level of play decreases in the post season.

well it can be argued... and rose didnt have a better regular seaon than lebron last year, lebron beat him accross the board mostly.

Khalifa21
01-05-2012, 09:42 PM
Well yea, hes ONE of the top performers. But certainly not the best performer. Furthermore, D Rose has a better regular season last year. Its not as much as a given as people want to make it out to be. Lebron's a great player, but his level of play decreases in the post season.

Yeah, so do his stats... 28/8.4/7

Oh wait.. No they don't

JordansBulls
01-05-2012, 09:49 PM
Awful analogy.

Look at the sample size... 6 games or 250 games? I don't care if you think 'the finals is a different beast'.. I would rather judge a player over a much longer stretch than such a short sample size.

I understand, but why should someone be named the best if they don't perform well on the main exam and that is with having cheat notes as well (which in this case means having Wade who got it done as the man.). That's the point.

beliges
01-05-2012, 09:50 PM
well it can be argued... and rose didnt have a better regular seaon than lebron last year, lebron beat him accross the board mostly.

He led a lesser talented team to a better record. In fact the best record in the league.

beliges
01-05-2012, 09:52 PM
Yeah, so do his stats... 28/8.4/7

Oh wait.. No they don't

Umm, elimination games. COmplete fail jobs. Dismal performances. Against the Cs a few years ago. In the Finals last season. So um yea, certainly not the best playoff performer in the league. Maybe down the line he can correct that, but right now, not a chance. If he performs the way he does in the regular season, during the post season, then yea youd have a point. But one cannot fail that horribly and be considered the best. Dont work that way.

Khalifa21
01-05-2012, 09:54 PM
I understand, but why should someone be named the best if they don't perform well on the main exam and that is with having cheat notes as well (which in this case means having Wade who got it done as the man.). That's the point.

Because it is SUCH a small sample size compared to the bigger picture. This isn't an exam where everything rests on that SINGLE exam. This is the NBA where a legacy is formed over 15+ years and over hundreds of games.. He has done enough in the NBA up to this point to be justified as the best two way player in the league today and one of the best of all-time.

beliges
01-05-2012, 09:56 PM
Because it is SUCH a small sample size compared to the bigger picture. This isn't an exam where everything rests on that SINGLE exam. This is the NBA where a legacy is formed over 15+ years and over hundreds of games.. He has done enough in the NBA up to this point to be justified as the best two way player in the league today and one of the best of all-time.

Dude, legacies are made in the playoffs. Not regular season. And yes, hes one of the best of all time, in terms of regular season production. But when it comes to domination (winning) and playoffs, he is NOT one of the best of all time. Not yet. Not without a few titles.

bucketss
01-05-2012, 09:56 PM
He led a lesser talented team to a better record. In fact the best record in the league.

clearly it wasnt all him, the best defense in the league had something to do with it, it was a good fit as he provided the offense on one of the best defensive units this decade.

bucketss
01-05-2012, 10:00 PM
Dude, legacies are made in the playoffs. Not regular season. And yes, hes one of the best of all time, in terms of regular season production. But when it comes to domination (winning) and playoffs, he is NOT one of the best of all time. Not yet. Not without a few titles.

factor in both reg. and playoffs, lebron is the best two way player in the game TODAY would you agree .. with wade and dwight close behind.

beliges
01-05-2012, 10:01 PM
clearly it wasnt all him, the best defense in the league had something to do with it, it was a good fit as he provided the offense on one of the best defensive units this decade.

If by this decade you mean the 10s, then youre right. Chi was one of the best defensive teams in the league last year but D Rose carried them to the best record in the league and had a better individual season than LBJ did. Just like the Cleavland years. The Cavs were one of the best defensive teams in the league as well and LBJ carried them to the best record in the league for consecutive years. During those years, LBJ had the best individual seasons in the league.

JordansBulls
01-05-2012, 10:01 PM
Because it is SUCH a small sample size compared to the bigger picture. This isn't an exam where everything rests on that SINGLE exam. This is the NBA where a legacy is formed over 15+ years and over hundreds of games.. He has done enough in the NBA up to this point to be justified as the best two way player in the league today and one of the best of all-time.

It most certainly does. If you want to separate yourself from your peers you must perform well on that great exam which is something Lebron has not done despite being there twice. Name another alltime great that didn't perform well on that exam at all even after 2 tries?

bucketss
01-05-2012, 10:03 PM
If by this decade you mean the 10s, then youre right. Chi was one of the best defensive teams in the league last year but D Rose carried them to the best record in the league and had a better individual season than LBJ did. Just like the Cleavland years. The Cavs were one of the best defensive teams in the league as well and LBJ carried them to the best record in the league for consecutive years. During those years, LBJ had the best individual seasons in the league.

how did he have a better individual season when lebron put much better stats?

JordansBulls
01-05-2012, 10:20 PM
how did he have a better individual season when lebron put much better stats?

Both lost with HCA, so that equates out, problem is is that Rose was the only allstar on his team while Lebron had two allstars and one who was a proven a winner and who outplayed him. Not only that but Rose still played the best on his team when he lost, Lebron was the 3rd best player on his team in the finals when he lost with HCA.

LAKERS 24/7
01-05-2012, 10:27 PM
Although the 6 games lebron played in the finals last year is a small sample size, those 6 games were the most important games of his career...

bucketss
01-05-2012, 10:28 PM
Both lost with HCA, so that equates out, problem is is that Rose was the only allstar on his team while Lebron had two allstars and one who was a proven a winner and who outplayed him. Not only that but Rose still played the best on his team when he lost, Lebron was the 3rd best player on his team in the finals when he lost with HCA.

lebron beat rose without home court with wade struggling... hca and such doesnt matter to me but clearly lebron out performed rose in the reg. and playoffs.

naps
01-05-2012, 10:28 PM
LeBron has been the best player in the game for last 4 years so you expect him to be a monster on both ends as well. There is a reason why he's the only player who has a shot at the GOAT if he starts winning soon. If anything he might go down as the greatest 2 way player ever.

Wade is the closest thing to LeBron when it comes to a 2 way player and thus the 2nd best player in the game.

bucketss
01-05-2012, 10:29 PM
what does him choking in the finals have to do with being the best two way player.. is dirk the best two way player to you guys????

Dolfan305
01-05-2012, 10:31 PM
yes, he is and it's because he's just good at every thing on both sides of the floor. He can shoot mid range, of course attack the basket, and now he's incorporated a very solid post game, he's a play maker can get offensive rebounds, and on defense he can cover positions 1-4 and damn well.

Khalifa21
01-05-2012, 10:33 PM
It most certainly does. If you want to separate yourself from your peers you must perform well on that great exam which is something Lebron has not done despite being there twice. Name another alltime great that didn't perform well on that exam at all even after 2 tries?

For a start, he had no right being in the Finals the first time he was there.. he took a team who's second best player was Zydrunas Ilgauskas there all on his own at the age of 21.

I will give you the second time, his performance was completely lackluster. But many greats have failed at one stage and come back stronger. Take your current man crush Dirk, he got ABSOLUTELY embarrassed after winning MVP, leading his team to 67 wins and then getting eliminated from the playoffs in the FIRST ROUND. He came back and won a title and got Finals MVP. Judging LeBron's two way play (which is what this thread is on, so I'm gonna get it back on track) on a 6 game stretch compared to his incredible play throughout the past 4 seasons (including last years playoffs, up to the Finals) is ignorant.

People need to stop using LeBron's poor performance in one series to diminish his basketball ability and accomplishments up until now. Come back to me in three years and if LeBron doesn't have AT LEAST two rings on his fingers I'll take it all back and agree with everything negative that's been said about him.

I'm out for now.. I'm fighting a battle Heat fans should be in here fighting. I should hate Bron being a Knicks fan, but I don't let my judgement get clouded when we're looking at the best player of this generation.

davids22
01-05-2012, 10:36 PM
JordansBulls comes into EVERY Lebron James thread just to hate on his Finals performances.... surprised it took until page 3 for him to show up.

JordansBulls
01-05-2012, 10:36 PM
lebron beat rose without home court with wade struggling... hca and such doesnt matter to me but clearly lebron out performed rose in the reg. and playoffs.

Wade beat Rose in the ECF because it is Wade's team and he is the proven winner. And no Lebron didn't out perform Rose. Lebron had 2 other allstars while Rose had none.

bucketss
01-05-2012, 10:40 PM
Wade beat Rose in the ECF because it is Wade's team and he is the proven winner. And no Lebron didn't out perform Rose. Lebron had 2 other allstars while Rose had none.

ok just gonna stop responding to you holy crap....

JordansBulls
01-05-2012, 10:41 PM
LeBron has been the best player in the game for last 4 years so you expect him to be a monster on both ends as well. There is a reason why he's the only player who has a shot at the GOAT if he starts winning soon. If anything he might go down as the greatest 2 way player ever.

Wade is the closest thing to LeBron when it comes to a 2 way player and thus the 2nd best player in the game.

He lost that opportunity losing 3 years in a row with HCA and also not putting a franchise that never won on the map for titles by electing to play with a proven winner (not drafted, but chose to play with a proven winner).
And his defense is decent until it actually matters, he couldn't even stop Jason Terry who averaged more than him in the finals.

davids22
01-05-2012, 10:43 PM
For a start, he had no right being in the Finals the first time he was there.. he took a team who's second best player was Zydrunas Ilgauskas there all on his own at the age of 21.

I will give you the second time, his performance was completely lackluster. But many greats have failed at one stage and come back stronger. Take your current man crush Dirk, he got ABSOLUTELY embarrassed after winning MVP, leading his team to 67 wins and then getting eliminated from the playoffs in the FIRST ROUND. He came back and won a title and got Finals MVP. Judging LeBron's two way play (which is what this thread is on, so I'm gonna get it back on track) on a 6 game stretch compared to his incredible play throughout the past 4 seasons (including last years playoffs, up to the Finals) is ignorant.

People need to stop using LeBron's poor performance in one series to diminish his basketball ability and accomplishments up until now. Come back to me in three years and if LeBron doesn't have AT LEAST two rings on his fingers I'll take it all back and agree with everything negative that's been said about him.

I'm out for now.. I'm fighting a battle Heat fans should be in here fighting. I should hate Bron being a Knicks fan, but I don't let my judgement get clouded when we're looking at the best player of this generation.

Exactly, the Heat wouldn't have even been in the Finals without James play in the Boston and Chicago series. Wade was a no-show in that Chicago series, and it's unfortunate that Lebron got cold when it mattered most.

My beef is that everyone wants to compare every new player to Jordan. If Lebron had been in the NBA before Jordan, then he'd be viewed upon as being more of a Magic Johnson clone (which IMO, his game is the closest to). But nowadays everyone has to be compared to the GOAT, so obviously no one holds up. Lebron's all around game is disgustingly good. I love watching the man attack the basket, shoot, defend, block, set his teammates up, rebound, steal, etc. He does it all, which is why he is so entertaining to watch. Kobe models his game a lot off of Jordan, and rightfully so. Lebron's game can't be compared to anyone really; he's one of a kind. If I had to choose though, I'd say he reminds me of Magic (the oversized PG who can play the 1-4 almost any night).

JordansBulls
01-05-2012, 10:43 PM
ok just gonna stop responding to you holy crap....

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o165/JordansBulls/LebronRingChaser.jpg


http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_james_100709.html



Going to Miami, it isnít going to be LeBronís team. It is Wadeís team because heís been there and has won a championship there. So the obvious point was that this would not be LeBronís championship if he gets one or more, that he needed to go get help from a champion and another star.

davids22
01-05-2012, 10:46 PM
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o165/JordansBulls/LebronRingChaser.jpg


http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_james_100709.html

You are THE BIGGEST LEBRON HATER EVER. I'm about to start ignoring you in every single other thread because Lebron could win 10 championships in a row and it wouldn't change your opinion of him.

Yanks All Day
01-05-2012, 10:50 PM
Wade beat Rose in the ECF because it is Wade's team and he is the proven winner. And no Lebron didn't out perform Rose. Lebron had 2 other allstars while Rose had none.

Wade was downright horrible in some of those Bulls games. LeBron carried the Heat through that series.

davids22
01-05-2012, 10:52 PM
Wade was downright horrible in some of those Bulls games. LeBron carried the Heat through that series.

Obviously that doesn't matter to him because WADES PRESENCE ALONE helped him beat the Bulls, right?

rhymeratic
01-05-2012, 10:54 PM
Yes Lebron is.

JordansBulls
01-05-2012, 10:54 PM
Wade was downright horrible in some of those Bulls games. LeBron carried the Heat through that series.

Dude by no means carried them

Wade
18.8 PPG / 6.4 RPG / 2.2 APG / 1.60 SPG / 1.20 BPG / 4.00 TPG / 40.5% FG / 20.0% 3 PT FG / 82.9% FT

Lebron
25.8 PPG / 7.8 RPG / 6.6 APG / 2.40 SPG / 1.8 BPG / 3.6 TPG / 44.7% FG / 38.9% 3 PT FG / 86.4% FT

Bosh
23.2 PPG / 7.6 RPG / 1.2 APG / 0.60 SPG / 1.0 BPG / 2.0 TPG / 60.0% FG / 0.00% 3 PT FG / 91.4% FT

Bosh averaged 23 ppg on 60% FG and outplayed the Bulls entire frontcourt

JordansBulls
01-05-2012, 10:58 PM
You are THE BIGGEST LEBRON HATER EVER. I'm about to start ignoring you in every single other thread because Lebron could win 10 championships in a row and it wouldn't change your opinion of him.

How would you know you never post in the NBA Forum and are a football fan? Lebron never carried a team that never won a title to a title and he needed to go play with a proven winner to just win. Greatness is about proving yourself as the man without having to need a proven winner over you to win.

silvTeg98
01-05-2012, 10:59 PM
who is king james?

Khalifa21
01-05-2012, 11:09 PM
How would you know you never post in the NBA Forum and are a football fan? Lebron never carried a team that never won a title to a title and he needed to go play with a proven winner to just win. Greatness is about proving yourself as the man without having to need a proven winner over you to win.

I would know.. And you are a massive LeBron hater.

I'm learning to take what you say about him (and a lot of NBA related stuff to be honest) with a pinch of salt now.

Your criteria for ranking players isn't remotely logical and pretty laughable at times. If I didn't see some of the posts were by you, I'd think a lot of them are dupe accounts, baiting and trolling.

bucketss
01-05-2012, 11:11 PM
when someone is making valid points you can try to debate with them... but when they start being illogical really there isnt a point in responding to them.....

blastmasta26
01-05-2012, 11:15 PM
Yes, LeBron is the best player in the league and the best two player in the league. Few players can defend as well as him and put up dominant performances on offense simultaneously. Wade is an elite two way player as well, but not as good as LeBron.

JordansBulls
01-05-2012, 11:18 PM
I would know.. And you are a massive LeBron hater.

I'm learning to take what you say about him (and a lot of NBA related stuff to be honest) with a pinch of salt now.

Your criteria for ranking players isn't remotely logical and pretty laughable at times. If I didn't see some of the posts were by you, I'd think a lot of them are dupe accounts, baiting and trolling.

Nope I just don't hype him up like the rest. I know if the same stuff happened to Kobe the same people who hype up later would be hating on Kobe.

For me I use results and stats. On another site that has more experienced people who follow basketball this is how the player of the year went for 2011.

We voted and on another forum these were the results.



2010-11 Results (Back to Top)

Player 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Pts POY Shares MVP DPOY All-NBA All-DEF
1. Dirk Nowitzki 19 3 1 0 0 216 0.939 6 - 2nd ---
2. LeBron James 3 10 6 3 1 140 0.609 3 9 1st 1st
3. Dwight Howard 0 7 10 5 1 115 0.500 2 1 1st 1st
4. Dwyane Wade 1 3 4 11 3 87 0.378 7 16 2nd ---
5. Derrick Rose 0 0 1 3 11 25 0.109 1 - 1st ---
6. Kevin Durant 0 0 1 0 5 10 0.043 5 - 1st ---
7. Chris Paul 0 0 0 1 2 5 0.022 13 12 3rd 2nd


Dirk Nowitzki and Mavs become first team in NBA history

To defeat three teams that each had a

ALL-NBA 1st team player and ALL-NBA 2nd team player:

Kobe and Gasol
Durant and Westbrook
LeBron and Wade


So yeah Dirk was clearly the best last year.


Mavs were 2-7 without him. Was the only allstar on his team. Beat the 2x defending champions who had a higher SRS rating, better offensive and defense and beat a team that had 3 allstars with two of which are considered routinely top 3 in the league and did so without HCA.


And Just so you know I voted

1. Dirk
2. Wade
3. Lebron
4. Dwight
5. Rose

Chronz
01-05-2012, 11:19 PM
If by this decade you mean the 10s, then youre right. Chi was one of the best defensive teams in the league last year but D Rose carried them to the best record in the league and had a better individual season than LBJ did. Just like the Cleavland years. The Cavs were one of the best defensive teams in the league as well and LBJ carried them to the best record in the league for consecutive years. During those years, LBJ had the best individual seasons in the league.

When you say "just like" you really mean to say somewhat similar but totally incomparable.

Rose has never had a better individual year than Bron

Chronz
01-05-2012, 11:20 PM
Wade beat Rose in the ECF because it is Wade's team and he is the proven winner. And no Lebron didn't out perform Rose. Lebron had 2 other allstars while Rose had none.

Your sounding very desperate

JordansBulls
01-05-2012, 11:23 PM
Your sounding very desperate

Nope. It's not his team unless he wins a league or finals mvp with them.

SeoulBeatz
01-05-2012, 11:24 PM
It's no contest. As much as people hate on Lebron, be real now.

The guy is still a freak, he CAN be the most dominant player on the court when he puts his will into it. And he just makes plays on defense with that ridiculous athleticism.

Anyone who says he isn't is just a "hater" as much as I hate that term (because of heat fans)

Chronz
01-05-2012, 11:24 PM
Wade beat Rose in the ECF because it is Wade's team and he is the proven winner. And no Lebron didn't out perform Rose. Lebron had 2 other allstars while Rose had none.
You have just destroyed your own credibility on the matter, so no matter how poorly Wade plays, you will give him credit regardless.

Chronz
01-05-2012, 11:24 PM
He lost that opportunity losing 3 years in a row with HCA and also not putting a franchise that never won on the map for titles by electing to play with a proven winner (not drafted, but chose to play with a proven winner).
And his defense is decent until it actually matters, he couldn't even stop Jason Terry who averaged more than him in the finals.
Not at all, hes got alot of time ahead of him.

Chronz
01-05-2012, 11:27 PM
Nope. It's not his team unless he wins a league or finals mvp with them.
LOL sounding more desperate. Hes already beat him in the MVP voting so clearly the voters have made their opinion clear.

JordansBulls
01-05-2012, 11:31 PM
Not at all, hes got alot of time ahead of him.

Like I said he blew that opportunity especially considering he will never take an organization that never won a title to a title. MJ, Kareem, Russell did that. Which is why they are top 3 and they have the accolades and titles. Lebron may have the titles but will never bring a franchise a title that never won before and needed a proven winner to get it done.

Chronz
01-05-2012, 11:37 PM
Like I said he blew that opportunity especially considering he will never take an organization that never won a title to a title. MJ, Kareem, Russell did that. Which is why they are top 3 and they have the accolades and titles. .
Like I said, your credibility on the matter was sapped the second you gave Wade credit for the Chicago series.

Not a single thing you said above was true. Hes got alot of time ahead of him and hes already gotten a head start in terms of years served. Hes far too young to start counting out.


Lebron may have the titles but will never bring a franchise a title that never won before and needed a proven winner to get it done
Its about HOW you win than WHO you won them for. His level of play in victory will say more about him as a champ than what team he was on.

JordansBulls
01-05-2012, 11:57 PM
Like I said, your credibility on the matter was sapped the second you gave Wade credit for the Chicago series.

Not a single thing you said above was true. Hes got alot of time ahead of him and hes already gotten a head start in terms of years served. Hes far too young to start counting out.

Must have missed this.

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showpost.php?p=20414027&postcount=78



Its about HOW you win than WHO you won them for. His level of play in victory will say more about him as a champ than what team he was on.

Yes, but also need to bring an organization that never won before multiple titles like MJ, Hakeem, Duncan, Russell to name a few.

Hawkeye15
01-06-2012, 12:00 AM
Must have missed this.

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showpost.php?p=20414027&postcount=78



Yes, but also need to bring an organization that never won before multiple titles like MJ, Hakeem, Duncan, Russell to name a few.

How is this possibly relevant in winning a ring?

Swashcuff
01-06-2012, 12:00 AM
JB keeps posting the real gm voting like its gold or something. :laugh2: I swear he's a copy and paste master.

Swashcuff
01-06-2012, 12:02 AM
How is this possibly relevant in winning a ring?

Especially Russell. I mean seriously trying to say because a player is able to lead a team that never won anything is utter garbage when you put those championship teams into perspective.

Hawkeye15
01-06-2012, 12:07 AM
Especially Russell. I mean seriously trying to say because a player is able to lead a team that never won anything is utter garbage when you put those championship teams into perspective.

Wilt, Oscar, Erving, Drexler, Garnett, and a list of top 20 examples kill his point.

Chronz
01-06-2012, 12:13 AM
Must have missed this.

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showpost.php?p=20414027&postcount=78



Yes, but also need to bring an organization that never won before multiple titles like MJ, Hakeem, Duncan, Russell to name a few.
You must have missed the Chicago-Miami series. Matter of fact, from the way you worded your post I would think you dont watch basketball at all.

Imagine, no matter how badly Wade performs, you will still credit him for the win. LMFAO

Credibility = Dying

Chronz
01-06-2012, 12:18 AM
According to JB, some future star can win a title with the Lakers in a dominating fashion but it wont count as much as a title in Minnesota, even if the star player played poorly?

Lets put JB's ridiculous theory to the test. Thats like saying Elvin Hayes has a more impressive title than Kevin Garnett, all because the Celtics won titles before KG was born while the Wizards have always sucked.

WOW

Credibility = DEAD

Swashcuff
01-06-2012, 12:20 AM
According to JB, some future star can win a title with the Lakers in a dominating fashion but it wont count as much as a title in Minnesota, even if the star player played poorly?

Lets put JB's ridiculous theory to the test. Thats like saying Elvin Hayes has a more impressive title than Kevin Garnett, all because the Celtics won titles before KG was born while the Wizards have always sucked.

WOW

Credibility = DEAD

I literally said this like a minute ago in the other thread. Makes no sense.

JordansBulls
01-06-2012, 12:28 AM
According to JB, some future star can win a title with the Lakers in a dominating fashion but it wont count as much as a title in Minnesota, even if the star player played poorly?

Lets put JB's ridiculous theory to the test. Thats like saying Elvin Hayes has a more impressive title than Kevin Garnett, all because the Celtics won titles before KG was born while the Wizards have always sucked.

WOW

Credibility = DEAD
No, guys have to be near same level. Like it doesn't put Isiah above Lebron because he took Detroit to two titles. But a guy like Hakeem is above as they are close to same level prime wise.

That is how the logic applies. So for GOAT which is what you are saying, Lebron has no shot anymore.

Chronz
01-06-2012, 12:33 AM
No, guys have to be near same level. Like it doesn't put Isiah above Lebron because he took Detroit to two titles. But a guy like Hakeem is above as they are close to same level prime wise.

That is how the logic applies. So for GOAT which is what you are saying, Lebron has no shot anymore.
Oh I get it, so how many titles your team wins only matters for players you deem comparable.

So your on the record for Elvin Hayes being superior to KG on grounds that they are "near" each other and because KG won a title on a team that hasnt been winning alot in the last 2 decades but because they won 30-50 years ago it counts for less.

In other words, simply performing better than MJ and winning more titles than MJ wont be enough if they came on the Lakers/Celtics.

Yanks All Day
01-06-2012, 12:35 AM
I hate all this talk that LeBron needed a proven winner, so he turned to Wade. People seem to forget that without LeBron, Wade hasn't made it out of the first round of the playoffs. YES, he won that title, but he had a near prime, highly motivated Shaquille O'Neal and a pretty good supporting cast that LeBron NEVER had. What happened when Shaq left? Oh yeah, Wade hasn't gone anywhere in the playoffs. Does that not make him a winner anymore? The fact that LeBron has consistently done more with less than just about anyone in the league shows me that he's been the best 2 way player in basketball. It's nice to call it Wade's team out of respect and as a title, but LeBron James is the best player around.

JordansBulls
01-06-2012, 12:41 AM
I hate all this talk that LeBron needed a proven winner, so he turned to Wade. People seem to forget that without LeBron, Wade hasn't made it out of the first round of the playoffs. YES, he won that title, but he had a near prime, highly motivated Shaquille O'Neal and a pretty good supporting cast that LeBron NEVER had. What happened when Shaq left? Oh yeah, Wade hasn't gone anywhere in the playoffs. Does that not make him a winner anymore? The fact that LeBron has consistently done more with less than just about anyone in the league shows me that he's been the best 2 way player in basketball. It's nice to call it Wade's team out of respect and as a title, but LeBron James is the best player around.

He never had a near prime Shaq. 2006 Shaq averaged 13 and 10 in the finals.

JordansBulls
01-06-2012, 12:43 AM
Oh I get it, so how many titles your team wins only matters for players you deem comparable.

So your on the record for Elvin Hayes being superior to KG on grounds that they are "near" each other and because KG won a title on a team that hasnt been winning alot in the last 2 decades but because they won 30-50 years ago it counts for less.

In other words, simply performing better than MJ and winning more titles than MJ wont be enough if they came on the Lakers/Celtics.

And not have anyone who won league or finals mvp on your team and also be undefeated in series with HCA.:)

Chronz
01-06-2012, 12:50 AM
He never had a near prime Shaq. 2006 Shaq averaged 13 and 10 in the finals.

While being the focal point of the opposing teams defense, playing solid defense and dominating in the ECF. Then they had Zo backing him up.

Neither Zo nor Shaq were close to their primes but together they gave him 48 minutes of dominant 2-way play.

Chronz
01-06-2012, 12:53 AM
And not have anyone who won league or finals mvp on your team and also be undefeated in series with HCA.:)

And to lead the league in PER, WS, they must be superstars from day 1, they cant miss the playoffs in their primes, what else, oh yea they had to defeat top notch teams like the Dynasty Celtics/Lakers/Pistons that MJ dethroned in a single playoff run, amirite, what else am I missing. Basically not only does that player have to just be as good, he has to be even luckier.


But good to know where you stand on KG vs Big E. Youve truly made a talent out of conjuring up the most inane barometers and never having any consistency with any of them.

Geargo Wallace
01-06-2012, 01:05 AM
Yes.

/thread

Chronz
01-06-2012, 01:15 AM
I just remembered one, you have to win a title with no other all-stars while defeating a team that has 2 or 3 of them every series.

Geargo Wallace
01-06-2012, 01:21 AM
I just remembered one, you have to win a title with no other all-stars while defeating a team that has 2 or 3 of them every series.

You haven't read The JordansBulls Rules? I don't recommend it.

Dolfan305
01-06-2012, 01:34 AM
If you say Lebron isn't the best 2 way player in the NBA, tell me who is...

utl768
01-06-2012, 01:50 AM
best player in the nba period

nyballa1991
01-06-2012, 02:08 AM
not even best on his team...wades defense is being seriously overlooked

stawka
01-06-2012, 02:50 AM
If you say Lebron isn't the best 2 way player in the NBA, tell me who is...

D-RoZe BRo'Z!! CHYeaH BRuHHHHH (sarcastic)

Wade>You
01-06-2012, 02:51 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/11202/the-return-of-the-old-lebron-james

Pacers head coach: LeBron is the best defender in the world. :cool:

Lake_Show2416
01-06-2012, 03:12 AM
the best 2 way player is his teammate, Wade

Jewelz0376
01-06-2012, 04:33 AM
Yea in the regular season he is

bucketss
01-06-2012, 11:53 AM
not even best on his team...wades defense is being seriously overlooked

you must be blem if you think wade is a better defender than lebron...

Geargo Wallace
01-06-2012, 12:02 PM
not even best on his team...wades defense is being seriously overlooked

lol no.

naps
01-06-2012, 12:24 PM
I am thinking about the greatest two way players the game has ever seen. The way LeBron James plays both ends makes me think he'll go down as the best as there has ever been when it comes down to 2 way players.

cubbies7177
01-06-2012, 12:24 PM
King James locked up Danny Granger.


Granger shot 2 out 13 and only had 6 measly points.


:worthy::worthy:

Yes. When considering both his offensive and defensive game, James is undoubtably the best 2-way player in the NBA. There's simply no denying it - as much as I hate to admit as a Bulls fan.

Nonetheless, can you stop calling him "King James"... like really? He hasn't won a single ring.... Call him "Prince James" or Lebron James or Bron... all 3 of those work. No one ever uses "King Bryant" or "King Jordan," and since Lebron is no where close to their levels in skill and understanding of basketball - don't think saying "King James" makes any sense.

Do people not get that he is a physical BEAST? Jordan, Kobe, Wade, Bird... No one has the combination of his strength and size and quickness. ABSOLUTELY NO ONE. Yet, what has he done with this? You show so much respect to the guy that is dominant because of a god-given gift. Personally, I am much more impressed with the Jordan's and Kobe's who have slaved at the gym, been *******s to their teammates to make them better, and won rings.

F**kin' "King James".... King of What? Having the sluttiest, whoriest, trashiest, worst parent/mother in the hood? His mom made him sign autographs when he was in HS and sold them in the parking lot for $5. What a ****. So, I guess that makes sense... "King of Whore Mothers" James

bucketss
01-06-2012, 12:45 PM
^its just basketballl man ... lmao!! at the last paragraph wow hahha smh

JordansBulls
01-06-2012, 01:17 PM
I am thinking about the greatest two way players the game has ever seen. The way LeBron James plays both ends makes me think he'll go down as the best as there has ever been when it comes down to 2 way players.

Naw not even close either. MJ, Kareem, Hakeem, Duncan are guys who did it better.

Geargo Wallace
01-06-2012, 01:33 PM
Yes. When considering both his offensive and defensive game, James is undoubtably the best 2-way player in the NBA. There's simply no denying it - as much as I hate to admit as a Bulls fan.

Nonetheless, can you stop calling him "King James"... like really? He hasn't won a single ring.... Call him "Prince James" or Lebron James or Bron... all 3 of those work. No one ever uses "King Bryant" or "King Jordan," and since Lebron is no where close to their levels in skill and understanding of basketball - don't think saying "King James" makes any sense.

Do people not get that he is a physical BEAST? Jordan, Kobe, Wade, Bird... No one has the combination of his strength and size and quickness. ABSOLUTELY NO ONE. Yet, what has he done with this? You show so much respect to the guy that is dominant because of a god-given gift. Personally, I am much more impressed with the Jordan's and Kobe's who have slaved at the gym, been *******s to their teammates to make them better, and won rings.

F**kin' "King James".... King of What? Having the sluttiest, whoriest, trashiest, worst parent/mother in the hood? His mom made him sign autographs when he was in HS and sold them in the parking lot for $5. What a ****. So, I guess that makes sense... "King of Whore Mothers" James

It's just a nickname. It has nothing to do with rings. Kings wear crowns anyways. By your reasoning, Kobe Bryant is a snake, and KG is a giant stub. Who cares about a damn nickname? It's a clever nickname if anything. Google "King James" and see what comes up. "King Bryant" just wouldn't make sense.

What makes you think that LeBron does nothing to get better? You don't just become the best by being born, and given a basketball. LeBron worked extremely hard to get where he is. People should see past some of the prettier games like Kobe's and DWades and notice that LeBron is just that much better.

Geargo Wallace
01-06-2012, 01:35 PM
Naw not even close either. MJ, Kareem, Hakeem, Duncan are guys who did it better.

LeBron may end up the best 2-way player at SF ever. I can't think of one that comes close.

JordansBulls
01-06-2012, 01:37 PM
LeBron may end up the best 2-way player at SF ever. I can't think of one that comes close.

That will be true, but not the best 2 way player all time.

Htownballa1622
01-06-2012, 01:37 PM
Yes. When considering both his offensive and defensive game, James is undoubtably the best 2-way player in the NBA. There's simply no denying it - as much as I hate to admit as a Bulls fan.

Nonetheless, can you stop calling him "King James"... like really? He hasn't won a single ring.... Call him "Prince James" or Lebron James or Bron... all 3 of those work. No one ever uses "King Bryant" or "King Jordan," and since Lebron is no where close to their levels in skill and understanding of basketball - don't think saying "King James" makes any sense.

Do people not get that he is a physical BEAST? Jordan, Kobe, Wade, Bird... No one has the combination of his strength and size and quickness. ABSOLUTELY NO ONE. Yet, what has he done with this? You show so much respect to the guy that is dominant because of a god-given gift. Personally, I am much more impressed with the Jordan's and Kobe's who have slaved at the gym, been *******s to their teammates to make them better, and won rings.

F**kin' "King James".... King of What? Having the sluttiest, whoriest, trashiest, worst parent/mother in the hood? His mom made him sign autographs when he was in HS and sold them in the parking lot for $5. What a ****. So, I guess that makes sense... "King of Whore Mothers" James

It was a marketing technique used when he was coming out of h.s.

"king" is because of the relevance it had to a king James.

Nike stuck with it and there it went. Had nothing to do with rings. Why do ppl say ringless king? Because ring and king rhyme? kings were supposed to wear crowns anyways, not rings.even still that had ZERO relevance considering its just a nickname.

Kobe has a nickname of black mamba. Its just a nickname. Get off the ****.

Htownballa1622
01-06-2012, 01:38 PM
It's just a nickname. It has nothing to do with rings. Kings wear crowns anyways. By your reasoning, Kobe Bryant is a snake, and KG is a giant stub. Who cares about a damn nickname? It's a clever nickname if anything. Google "King James" and see what comes up. "King Bryant" just wouldn't make sense.

What makes you think that LeBron does nothing to get better? You don't just become the best by being born, and given a basketball. LeBron worked extremely hard to get where he is. People should see past some of the prettier games like Kobe's and DWades and notice that LeBron is just that much better.

Haha. You beat me to it.:clap:

beliges
01-06-2012, 03:05 PM
I am thinking about the greatest two way players the game has ever seen. The way LeBron James plays both ends makes me think he'll go down as the best as there has ever been when it comes down to 2 way players.


As far as perimeter players are concerned, he has quite a few years of sheer 2-way domination to go before he reaches the level of Kobe and MJ. Both of whom were much better scorers and better defenders in their prime. Then you have all the big men. Guys like Hakeem, Kareem, Shaq and Duncan. He has become a very good defender for the last 2 years or so. MJ and Kobe and the other bigs mentioned above did if for well over a decade. Once LBJ gets his 10th ALL NBA defensive team nod we can put him in that ALL TIME 2 way player discussion.

PurpleJesus
01-06-2012, 03:15 PM
Lebron is the best player in the league, there shouldnt even be a debate about it anymore. The only thing that we can debate, is that he shouldnt be called King James.

Geargo Wallace
01-06-2012, 03:29 PM
Lebron is the best player in the league, there shouldnt even be a debate about it anymore. The only thing that we can debate, is that he shouldnt be called King James.

Pointless.

Chronz
01-06-2012, 06:41 PM
Naw not even close either. MJ, Kareem, Hakeem, Duncan are guys who did it better.
Care to comment on how long they accomplished this 2-way dominance?