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dnewguy
01-05-2012, 12:27 AM
What's wrong with that team? 2 superstars and a solid C, average bench but they keep losing to less talented teams. Are the players too greedy? is it the coach? bad chemistry?

Your thoughts..........

Dolfan305
01-05-2012, 12:30 AM
The 2 superstars and the average bench are all mediocre/bad defensively.

jimbobjarree
01-05-2012, 12:35 AM
they gave up 118 points to the bobcats....what more needs to be said?

Cal827
01-05-2012, 12:38 AM
Chandler was a product of the system. Going to an all-offense one is rendering him useless. Also, it looks like he's a contract year player. How many Rebounds did he get in this game? 4? Andrea Barfnani got more rebounds than him today lol.

nysportsfan02
01-05-2012, 12:42 AM
Two superstars?

Last time I checked they don't have two "superstars". Both are two of the laziest players in the league who play no D. Chandler can't cover it up. It all starts with the leaders to play team D and if they don't play any, no one else will. Plus, Amare and Melo do not mix.

Raph12
01-05-2012, 12:43 AM
Poor coaching, they don't need an offense coach, they need a defensive-minded coach who can hold his players responsible.

Cal827
01-05-2012, 12:43 AM
Maybe they should have chased after Casey this off-season too?

Sadds The Gr8
01-05-2012, 12:44 AM
Melo and Amar'e can't play together.

FriedTofuz
01-05-2012, 12:44 AM
carmelos defense is wose than jose calderon. they need a new coach

Becks2307
01-05-2012, 12:45 AM
lol its early

but mike dantoni is an idiot. that is all.

Raps18-19 Champ
01-05-2012, 12:45 AM
Amare is injured.

NYtilIdie
01-05-2012, 12:46 AM
Poor coaching, they don't need an offense coach, they need a defensive-minded coach who can hold his players responsible.

This pretty much.

Hellcrooner
01-05-2012, 12:48 AM
coach does not know how to set up a defense to save his life.

the two stars are greedy with their shots, not team players

the two stars ( and everyone else except chandler) are mediocre at best at defense.

They dont have a legit Pg to organize the offense.

Hellcrooner
01-05-2012, 12:50 AM
carmelos defense is wose than jose calderon. they need a new coach

you need to update your joke.

After lock out Joses legs lateral quicknes has come back and he is doing solidly on defense, and beasting in everything else.:D

Stuckey#3
01-05-2012, 12:50 AM
Dantoni Syndrome.

xxcubs22xx
01-05-2012, 12:51 AM
What's there to Diagnose? There's nothing wrong with them; they are who they are

Stuckey#3
01-05-2012, 12:51 AM
you need to update your joke.

After lock out Joses legs lateral quicknes has come back and he is doing solidly on defense, and beasting in everything else.:D

He is looking good so far... if he can get back to 08-09 form the Raps will be talking playoffs.

Wade>You
01-05-2012, 12:52 AM
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/35iol6/

^ this guy. He just doesn't fit what the Knicks want to do, he should've been gone the minute they got Chandler instead of CP3.

Kashmir13579
01-05-2012, 12:52 AM
Simple. The Knicks have the worst backcourt in the NBA. (Not to mention a D-league worthy bench but i don't think thats why they are losing)

- Fields is a shell of the player we claimed he was. A flash in the pan. Nothing more then a 8-10 minute guy off the bench.

- Toney Douglas thinks he is Ray Allen. Meanwhile, Douglas very well could be, statistically speaking, the worst player in the nba. I looked at his numbers before tonight's game and they were rotten, i'm scared to look at them now.

If Bdiddy comes in swinging, he will turn the ship around. It shouldn't have to be on 'Melo to score 35 every night, clean up the boards, and play point guard. He isn't Lebron... Amar'e clearly can't be productive without a playmaker setting him up, and i don't see him and 'Melo working well off each other at this point. Maybe down the road, but not right now or anytime soon.

Shumpert is a huge wildcard for us. From what i've seen there is no reason he shouldn't be starting over Douglas or Fields. But from D'antoni's standpoint, if he starts Shump, his only bench scoring will be Josh Harrelson. :laugh:

Its a mess right now.. I think we'll still have what can be categorized as a successful season. I'm more scared of the crappy teams like the Raptors and Cleveland than i am the Heat or Bulls, and thats me being real with you.

AndyfromNeptune
01-05-2012, 12:54 AM
There is nothing wrong with the Knicks.

Carmelo Anthony is seriously playing the best defense of his career.

Iman Shumpert is going to be a great great player who plays on both sides of the ball.

Toney Douglas can shoot the lights out from beyond the arc.

Chandler is anchoring the defense.


The Knicks are waiting on Amar'e Stoudemire of all people to play average defense and play the offense we have come to expect from him. Once that happens, we will be fine. He is one of the major reasons for which we are struggling right now.

Melo has been doing amazing this year. Such an incredible passer, rebounder, and scorer..especially from beyond the arc. He gets to the free throw line seemingly whenever he wants. So impressed.

Cal827
01-05-2012, 12:58 AM
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/35iol6/

^ this guy. He just doesn't fit what the Knicks want to do, he should've been gone the minute they got Chandler instead of CP3.

:laugh:

Kashmir13579
01-05-2012, 12:58 AM
What's there to Diagnose? There's nothing wrong with them; they are who they are

Yep. The 2-4 team that the Bulls had no answer for last season. That. Just. Happened.

Slimsim
01-05-2012, 12:59 AM
coach does not know how to set up a defense to save his life.

the two stars are greedy with their shots, not team players

the two stars ( and everyone else except chandler) are mediocre at best at defense.

They dont have a legit Pg to organize the offense.

This exactly

I see to much me first out there at times.

Neither Melo or Amare will accept the robin title in NY and this would hurt us more than anything.

we are screwed

TheNumber37
01-05-2012, 01:02 AM
Poor Coaching, no PG, no identity.
They need a PG like Rondo or Paul.
They're really missing Billups' leadership, shooting, and steady hand.

bears88
01-05-2012, 01:03 AM
This exactly

I see to much me first out there at times.

Neither Melo or Amare will accept the robin title in NY and this would hurt us more than anything.

we are screwed

They just need more time to get used playing together, I think you guys will be fine, but your coach is an idiot no offense.

blastmasta26
01-05-2012, 01:03 AM
Simple. The Knicks have the worst backcourt in the NBA. (Not to mention a D-league worthy bench but i don't think thats why they are losing)

- Fields is a shell of the player we claimed he was. A flash in the pan. Nothing more then a 8-10 minute guy off the bench.

- Toney Douglas thinks he is Ray Allen. Meanwhile, Douglas very well could be, statistically speaking, the worst player in the nba. I looked at his numbers before tonight's game and they were rotten, i'm scared to look at them now.

If Bdiddy comes in swinging, he will turn the ship around. It shouldn't have to be on 'Melo to score 35 every night, clean up the boards, and play point guard. He isn't Lebron... Amar'e clearly can't be productive without a playmaker setting him up, and i don't see him and 'Melo working well off each other at this point. Maybe down the road, but not right now or anytime soon.

Shumpert is a huge wildcard for us. From what i've seen there is no reason he shouldn't be starting over Douglas or Fields. But from D'antoni's standpoint, if he starts Shump, his only bench scoring will be Josh Harrelson. :laugh:

Its a mess right now.. I think we'll still have what can be categorized as a successful season. I'm more scared of the crappy teams like the Raptors and Cleveland than i am the Heat or Bulls, and thats me being real with you.
Agree with this. And the Knicks aren't defending well as a whole right now either. If Baron can alleviate the pressure from Melo and set up Amare from the pick and roll, the offense will look much smoother. Still don't know when we will see consistently good defense from the Knicks though.

beasted86
01-05-2012, 01:04 AM
they gave up 118 points to the bobcats....what more needs to be said?

:clap:

Not hating, but Knicks need a new coach, and a couple more defense oriented role players.

MTL_123
01-05-2012, 01:04 AM
why are people blaming dantoni its not his fault that his 2 bes players wont play defence u cant teach someone to commit to something they never did in their career

LTBaByyy
01-05-2012, 01:06 AM
The coach doesn't even deal with the defense? What y'all talking about

They brought in Woodson for defense, he deals with everything defensively

No matter who they bring in at Head Coach they will never be good at defense

They wasted what 14 mil a year on Chandler who was in a contract year and a product of the systembc we had Dwayne Casey who played the Woodson role for the Knicks

Hell, Casey even made the Raptors good defensively now

So now they don't even have a chance at Paul, Dwight, or Deron haha

The Knicks are in a bad situation

NYtilIdie
01-05-2012, 01:07 AM
Maybe because the "coach" doesn't have an offense.

The man's mic check is just "lets go, lets go, lets go! Here we go!"

ARE YOU ***KING KIDDING ME!?!?! We're down by 10 to the Bobcats and thats all that pops into your head?!?!

KingPosey
01-05-2012, 01:10 AM
No camp, we are a week and a half into the season, and Amare has been hurt for most of that time. I think that all might contribute.

Also their D sucks, which whomps if they dont score.

blastmasta26
01-05-2012, 01:10 AM
:clap:

Not hating, but Knicks need a new coach, and a couple more defense oriented role players.
I don't know if it falls upon the coach for the defense. I mean, NY hired Mike Woodson purely for defensive purposes yet we haven't really seen much of an improvement on that end of the floor. And to be fair, D'Antoni hasn't had a good real team on the floor yet.

The Knicks definitely do need a much better bench, full of athletic defenders. We have some defensive minded role players like Douglas, Fields, Harrelson but they are prone to getting beat regardless. And Chandler isn't a Dwight-like figure on defense, so he definitely needs some help to be effective.

Wade>You
01-05-2012, 01:11 AM
JVG would be great for the Knicks.

Slimsim
01-05-2012, 01:12 AM
The coach doesn't even deal with the defense? What y'all talking about

They brought in Woodson for defense, he deals with everything defensively

No matter who they bring in at Head Coach they will never be good at defense

They wasted what 14 mil a year on Chandler who was in a contract year and a product of the systembc we had Dwayne Casey who played the Woodson role for the Knicks

Hell, Casey even made the Raptors good defensively now

So now they don't even have a chance at Paul, Dwight, or Deron haha

The Knicks are in a bad situation


And your team does ?

Slimsim
01-05-2012, 01:13 AM
JVG would be great for the Knicks.

over Dolans dead body. but i agree with you

Wade>You
01-05-2012, 01:14 AM
over Dolans dead body. but i agree with youIs there beef between Dolan and JVG?

topdog
01-05-2012, 01:15 AM
Amare has been hurt a bit, but the rest of their team is just nobodies. Chandler can only cover up so many mistakes and needs to be spoon fed on offense. Pretty much no one else (maybe Fields) is starter quality and the bench is college rejects. Plus, Melo and Amare are not great defenders.

$20M would have been far better served building a TEAM.

P.S. I am not saying they won't make the playoffs, but it's not pretty.

LTBaByyy
01-05-2012, 01:16 AM
And your team does ?

Yes!!!! :) Where have you been?

We will have like $30 mil I believe in Cap Space

And more with amnesty Haywood and trade Marion

Do research before ya talk

setman2000
01-05-2012, 01:17 AM
Nuggets 5-2, Knicks 2-4.....Bye-Bye Melo!

29$JerZ
01-05-2012, 01:19 AM
Worst backcourt in the NBA
Worst Bench in the NBA (Jared Jeffries and Bill Walker are our main options)
No Chemistry even from last year
Lockout Rust
No PG
Amare has been hurt and just flat out pathetic. His shot is gone.

And a bunch if other things. This is still a 6th or 7th seed team.'next year will be the year you see what the team can really become.

bovice163
01-05-2012, 01:20 AM
It's the obvious: they don't play defense, and they don't play team basketball. You are never going to win games by switching between Amare and Melo in isolation, and chuck 3's early in the shot clock, which is exactly what D'antonis system is about. He is the root of it all.

LTBaByyy
01-05-2012, 01:25 AM
Melo and Amare are the worst pairing, they are both the same player

Take turns in ISO and say to eachother "Your turn" then don't play defense

Atleast Lebron and Wade are good passers and play defense lol

Knicks need to trade Melo back to Nuggets and get their TEAM back

rwynyc
01-05-2012, 01:28 AM
I was at the game tonight. The garden was looking for blood. The fans are heated with this team. Here are a few things I noticed.

Amare needs a above average PG to score. Or he needs to be defended by the 5 so he is faster and he can take them off the dribble. Tyson Chandler has hurt his game big time. Amare played better offensively tonight when he was at the 5. Amare's defensive IQ is that of a ******. He just does not get defense. Has nothing to do with being lazy. He does not understand where to slide or close out and since joining the Knicks he has allowed scrubs to look like all stars. Look at tonights stats Boris Diaw has 25 points most of them on Amare, and another white guy looked like Larry Bird out there.

Mike D- We have a rookie named Iman Shumpert that really brought the garden to life. He was the only player that was doing it on both ends. This kid starts catching fire, and Mike D pulls him and puts toney douglas in who was annihalated with boo's. I feel bad for TD bc Mike D is putting a bench player in a position to fail. How does everyone in the world get this but the head coach. The game started to get away within the first couple of minutes and he should have called a time out. I cant see him making it this season. He only gets on his bench players. He is afraid to get on his "stars"

Chandler- I was never big on the signing. Let alone amnesty someone when you are going to need it on Amare. If chandler was such a great 7 footer. Why has he played on so many teams? I mean that says it all. From what I have seen so far. He cannot finish at the rim unless he is dunking. Makes stupid fouls constantly. I also think the knicks are expecting him to be dwight howard and he isn't. He seems like a great team mate but def not worth the money.

Everyone keeps saying Baron Davis will change everything, but that is so far from the truth. This team plays to its weaknesses every game. One guy is not going to change that.

I am old, and been a fan of knicks since a kid, and if they do not pull it together this year. Sionora , especially if the nets sign d12. I hate this team. I dislike Melo & Amare. T

Lidz
01-05-2012, 01:31 AM
Simple. The Knicks have the worst backcourt in the NBA. (Not to mention a D-league worthy bench but i don't think thats why they are losing)

- Fields is a shell of the player we claimed he was. A flash in the pan. Nothing more then a 8-10 minute guy off the bench.

- Toney Douglas thinks he is Ray Allen. Meanwhile, Douglas very well could be, statistically speaking, the worst player in the nba. I looked at his numbers before tonight's game and they were rotten, i'm scared to look at them now.

If Bdiddy comes in swinging, he will turn the ship around. It shouldn't have to be on 'Melo to score 35 every night, clean up the boards, and play point guard. He isn't Lebron... Amar'e clearly can't be productive without a playmaker setting him up, and i don't see him and 'Melo working well off each other at this point. Maybe down the road, but not right now or anytime soon.

Shumpert is a huge wildcard for us. From what i've seen there is no reason he shouldn't be starting over Douglas or Fields. But from D'antoni's standpoint, if he starts Shump, his only bench scoring will be Josh Harrelson. :laugh:

Its a mess right now.. I think we'll still have what can be categorized as a successful season. I'm more scared of the crappy teams like the Raptors and Cleveland than i am the Heat or Bulls, and thats me being real with you.

I can NOT stop laughing at that.

xxcubs22xx
01-05-2012, 01:33 AM
Yep. The 2-4 team that the Bulls had no answer for last season. That. Just. Happened.

Awwww. You mad?

Slimsim
01-05-2012, 01:33 AM
Yes!!!! :) Where have you been?

We will have like $30 mil I believe in Cap Space

And more with amnesty Haywood and trade Marion

Do research before ya talk

And what if NJ get Dwight ? Smartass

RD-Swaggg
01-05-2012, 01:35 AM
Melo and Amar'e can't play together.

Hes rightt, these two can't play together,, Melo can't be used for pick n roles with stoudemaire cus hes not a playmaker, hes a pure scorer knicks try using melo as a creater but thats not his game hes a straight scorer. I'm a huge knick fan but they are not that good, we are actually pretty badd bcz we still mising big pieces,, Stoudemairer needs an legit pg to get easy baskets, we need a sold baron davis to have a chance and we shouldn't have lost gallinari, n felton n those guys, they were key pieces,, we need a deeperrr bench to contend.

Kashmir13579
01-05-2012, 01:36 AM
I love reading all the uninformed responses in here. People who haven't watched the games and haven't clue what they are talking about. You are easy to spot. Try reading some of the real Knick fan responses and maybe you will learn a thing or two.

It isn't the defense, our defense (apart from tonight) has actually been pretty damn good. It isn't 'Melo, he has been playing out of his mind. And to those calling him a ballhog, you clearly haven't been watching the games. Even a blockhead could see 'Melo is passing more than ever, and he'd be averaging 5 digits short of a triple double if anyone on the Knicks could finish at the basket. Chandler has played great D at times, but you get the feeling this team just isn't buying into team defense yet. Chandler is frustrated, and i don't blame him. Butthurt Dallas fan is laughable.

Kashmir13579
01-05-2012, 01:37 AM
Awwww. You mad?

nope. :)

Sadds The Gr8
01-05-2012, 01:37 AM
Hes rightt, these two can't play together,, Melo can't be used for pick n roles with stoudemaire cus hes not a playmaker, hes a pure scorer knicks try using melo as a creater but thats not his game hes a straight scorer. I'm a huge knick fan but they are not that good, we are actually pretty badd bcz we still mising big pieces,, Stoudemairer needs an legit pg to get easy baskets, we need a sold baron davis to have a chance and we shouldn't have lost gallinari, n felton n those guys, they were key pieces,, we need a deeperrr bench to contend.

Baron won't do ****. He's a fat **** that's outta his prime and has no hope of taking the Knicks anywhere. The knicks failed to build that team and will get shat on by Miami, Chicago, Boston, or even Atlanta. Melo is the most overrated player in the league...Amar'e sux w/o a PG, and the rest of the roster is trash

ink
01-05-2012, 01:39 AM
Awful roster of mismatched pieces.

Slimsim
01-05-2012, 01:39 AM
Baron won't do ****. He's a fat **** that's outta his prime and has no hope of taking the Knicks anywhere. The knicks failed to build that team and will get shat on by Miami, Chicago, Boston, or even Atlanta. Melo is the most overrated player in the league...Amar'e sux w/o a PG, and the rest of the roster is trash

Well that fat **** is our last hope.

RD-Swaggg
01-05-2012, 01:40 AM
Baron won't do ****. He's a fat **** that's outta his prime and has no hope of taking the Knicks anywhere. The knicks failed to build that team and will get shat on by Miami, Chicago, Boston, or even Atlanta. Melo is the most overrated player in the league...Amar'e sux w/o a PG, and the rest of the roster is trash

Your a smart poster, one of the best ive seen as a prosports member, ( i just started),

NYtilIdie
01-05-2012, 01:40 AM
Yes!!!! :) Where have you been?

We will have like $30 mil I believe in Cap Space

And more with amnesty Haywood and trade Marion

Do research before ya talk

Yes, because Marion is a hot commodity right now, right? :rolleyes:

LTBaByyy
01-05-2012, 01:41 AM
I am so glad we didn't sign Chandler

And to think they called them a Big 3 hahahha

Even the Mavs have a better record now than the Knicks and we are older and started out 0-3 lol

Knicks future is not bright until they trade Melo

No one is going to trade for Amare with injuries and Max contract

They need to trade Melo and for solid starters/bench

Sadds The Gr8
01-05-2012, 01:41 AM
Your a smart poster, one of the best ive seen as a prosports member, ( i just started),

thanks man...I'm known as a basketball guru. Too bad your knicks wasted all that money and they have no chance in hell of winning the title.

Slimsim
01-05-2012, 01:42 AM
Waiting for Swish or hawkeye to give their opinions since they are Unbias and don't hate us as much as the other fans

JJ_JKidd
01-05-2012, 01:44 AM
Its because of the media (again) with its very high expectation(s), and bandwagon fans as well, that people think that something is wrong with the Knicks. :facepalm:

DamnGoat
01-05-2012, 01:45 AM
Awful roster of mismatched pieces.
This is probably the best way to sum it up.

There is definitely talent on this roster, but they don't seem to fit very well together.

LTBaByyy
01-05-2012, 01:45 AM
Yes, because Marion is a hot commodity right now, right? :rolleyes:

As hot as Tyson Chandler is lol

How that go for y'all? We have$30 mil at the end of the season.

Dwight has Dallas in his top 3 or we will get D Will and others.

I actually loved the Knicks with Chandler (not Tyson), Felton, Amare, Turiaf, Gallo, and others :(

RD-Swaggg
01-05-2012, 01:47 AM
thanks man...I'm known as a basketball guru. Too bad your knicks wasted all that money and they have no chance in hell of winning the title.

Yeaa we fkd up pretty bad, I dont get why our dumbass gm, got rid of so many key pieces man, i swear when teh starters go off we have no one to rely on, i know schumpert is injured but stilll, we lost to teams we should have beat bcz our key guy carmelo isn't being as efficient as he sohuld be. With the amounto f money we gave, he needs to player better, he needs to learn when to pass and when to shoot, and Dantoni needs to be gone !!!!

AndyfromNeptune
01-05-2012, 01:48 AM
With all this being said, the knicks will still be able to make a playoff run this year. Beyond the first round.

Quote me on this.

sjbirds
01-05-2012, 01:48 AM
I love reading all the uninformed responses in here. People who haven't watched the games and haven't clue what they are talking about. You are easy to spot. Try reading some of the real Knick fan responses and maybe you will learn a thing or two.

It isn't the defense, our defense (apart from tonight) has actually been pretty damn good. It isn't 'Melo, he has been playing out of his mind. And to those calling him a ballhog, you clearly haven't been watching the games. Even a blockhead could see 'Melo is passing more than ever, and he'd be averaging 5 digits short of a triple double if anyone on the Knicks could finish at the basket. Chandler has played great D at times, but you get the feeling this team just isn't buying into team defense yet. Chandler is frustrated, and i don't blame him. Butthurt Dallas fan is laughable.

yeah must suck being defending champs...

BrooklynBornKid
01-05-2012, 01:51 AM
The Knicks front office gets some of the blame they signed mike bibby instead of agent 0 & Steve Novak over Yi Jianlian Even Jeremy Lin over Nate Robinson I would rather they took chances on these type of players than the stiffs we got 1 year min. Is all it would've took 2 have pieces we can count on for bench production.

Bubba313
01-05-2012, 01:52 AM
This is probably the best way to sum it up.

There is definitely talent on this roster, but they don't seem to fit very well together.

I know this looks true, and by the way the Knicks have been playing lately its definitely giving more credibility to this argument, but in theory how is this team not well constructed? You have two players who can score at will at the 3 and 4, and then one of the best defensive centers in the league. The only piece that's missing is a distributing PG. It's not that the pieces don't fit well together, it's that were missing a key piece, which really isn't hard to find but for some reason our front office has not attended to.

Slimsim
01-05-2012, 01:54 AM
Well it's still a long season maybe we will catch fire somehow

Jay_Dub
01-05-2012, 01:56 AM
There are a number of reasons ... they obviously don't have a deep talented team. But I think Melo doesn't know how to make his teammates better.

He's like the opposite of Steve Nash, for years people would go to Phoenix and have career years, Diaw, Bell, etc. All their stats would go up.

I haven't checked stats or anything, but I'm sure Melo has to opposite effect. His style kills the flow of the game with all the isolations and the ball sticking in his hands, and he's always looking to get 'his', not make the right basketball play.

And obviously Dantoni teams suck at defense.

D1JM
01-05-2012, 02:03 AM
some coach
. ‘Melo is the best offensive player I’ve ever coached, but his defensive focus, his demand of himself is what frustrated us more than anything.’

Beltrans Mole
01-05-2012, 02:08 AM
some coach

Melo ain't the problem with the Knicks...and without him we would be 0-5 right now. He doesn't play D, but he's not the only one. This team will take time to gel. Amare and Melo haven't even played a full year together. Chandler is new to the system. We will get healthier and deeper as the season progresses. D'Antonio needs to go, that's for sure.

Bubba313
01-05-2012, 02:08 AM
Anyone who is pointing to Melo's defense as the Knicks problem clearly hasn't watched a game this season and should really just remove themselves from the conversation

nysportsfan02
01-05-2012, 02:11 AM
Melo ain't the problem with the Knicks...and without him we would be 0-5 right now. He doesn't play D, but he's not the only one. This team will take time to gel. Amare and Melo haven't even played a full year together. Chandler is new to the system. We will get healthier and deeper as the season progresses. D'Antonio needs to go, that's for sure.
If the leaders don't play D, then the team won't follow. It's up to Amare, Melo, AND yes D'Antoni to demand effort on D.

Melo and Amare are two of the most lazy player i've ever seen.

Kyben36
01-05-2012, 02:22 AM
Dantoni is one problem, another is the other lack of role players, however I thought they got a few over the offseason, I think there defense is still bad even with chandler.

BrooklynBornKid
01-05-2012, 02:33 AM
Melo defense ain't great but it hasn't been bad not once this season has a small forward put up 20 on him I see a lot of improvement from him stat needs to step it up he has been awful defensively Toney Douglas was supposed to a defensive type guy but he can't stop a nose bleed Landry gets out scored every night the back court needs a shot in the arm I'd give the rookie a start see wat happens he can't be any worse who 2 start him for is the question I'd start him over TD at least TD would score off the bench can't say that bout Landry

knicks_champ
01-05-2012, 02:34 AM
They will get it together I guarantee it!

Team*Chicago
01-05-2012, 02:34 AM
This is exactly what the Knicks are trying to build an offensive team with 1 defensive player at center and expects that center to cover up the entire defense like Charles Barkley said on TNT. The Knicks are only committed to Carmelo and Amare, they are waiting on Chris Pual to hit FA so they can collect their next all-star player and Phil Jackson to come out of retirement to coach their team.

The Knicks aren't trying to win they are trying to collect all-stars and superstars on their team because New york is basketball mecca of the world. 2010 = aquired Amare, 2011 = aquired Carmelo, 2012 = attempting at CP3 and somewhere in the future = attempting Phil Jackson. Those are their goals and where does winning comes in at?

Cal827
01-05-2012, 02:35 AM
Melo has to have one of the biggest discrepancies between his offense and defense of all time.

Nabeshin
01-05-2012, 02:47 AM
Not to worry ladies, D'antoni will be fired soon, and Jackson will replace him :)

aussie
01-05-2012, 02:56 AM
Dr Aus. prescribes them Norris Cole, that should fix their problem

BallIsAll
01-05-2012, 02:59 AM
2 ball hogging stars < basketball team

Beltrans Mole
01-05-2012, 03:00 AM
If the leaders don't play D, then the team won't follow. It's up to Amare, Melo, AND yes D'Antoni to demand effort on D.

Melo and Amare are two of the most lazy player i've ever seen.

Well I hate to break it to you, the "leaders" aren't defensive specialists. Never have been, and never will be. Melo and Amare are scorers. They need to be surrounded with guys who can defend like crazy, and can do all of the dirty work to make them successful. Chandler is a good piece and will adapt with time, but the point guard position is the real issue. Toney Douglass isn't a true starting PG...our only hope is that Davis comes back strong and healthy.

Iman Shumpert looks like a real nice player though. Great defensively, plus he's athletic and can put the ball in the hole. I like the pick so far if he can stay healthy. Landry Fields looks lost out there, but if he's our 6th or 7th man I'd be happy. D'Antoni will be canned and Woodson will take over soon enough.

THE MTL
01-05-2012, 03:08 AM
We need Steve Nash thats plain and simple. He'll have this team running. Also we need to use SSOL system like the suns did (and NO just cause D'Antoni is on the Knicks doesnt mean we been using SSOL system cause we havent). We run far too much half court isos too.

LTBaByyy
01-05-2012, 03:09 AM
Everyone knows Lebron and D Wade are the same players BUT they also play defense and pass very well

Not the case for Melo and Amare, worst pairing of stars

One of them plus role players is amazing but together with no bench is a bad future

Supa
01-05-2012, 03:13 AM
Knicks have lots of $$$, if only they can spent them wisely ...

---

Lakers + Giants
01-05-2012, 03:14 AM
The fact that both players are completely offensive minded is what makes the Knicks not so good IMO. I like both players, but honestly, Knicks aren't going to get **** done until Melo and Amare both give 100% effort on D. If both players play like they have their whole careers then they're just going to be a regular season team and still aren't even going to beast at that. Look at other teams with BIG 3s or have 2 All stars and are still contenders and 2/3 or at least 2/2 of the players are also Solid defensive players.

smood999
01-05-2012, 03:23 AM
wow talk about an overreaction 6 games in...

1)everybody criticizing the knicks d prob dont realize tonight was only the 2nd time this season an opponent scored 100 on them..and if u did notice this you'll see the glaring issue is that the knicks offense has been horrible theyve scored 78, 82, 85 in 3 of their 4 losses...they dont have anyone that can run an offense! its that simple... u can also look at it as there is no way that this team will not atleast avg 90 something pts a game pg or no pg...them scoring high 70's to mid 80's wont last..and then what? if they continue to hold teams under 100 theyll win...

2)amares been out 2 of the 6 games...shump has played in only 2 games

3)ppl r now saying amare cant play without a pg....the same thing that was said last yr and look how he did....he doesnt need a great pg...he just needs a pg capable of passing him the ball...toney douglas clearly cant but is this to anyones surprise?

4)say what u will about baron davis...ask cav fans last yr it was "lob city" for their big men with him...chandler will be fine once davis is back...regardless of if davis is out of his prime or fat or lazy or whatever else anyone wants to say...he can pass the ball, he can throw alley oops and thats not even debateable

5)how many new players r on this knick roster? idr but when the heat were 9-9 or whatever they started last yr did heat fans panic? not saying the knicks r the heat but the knicks r clearly a better team than what theyve shown...i believe the knicks started 3-8 last yr with the same young group that everyone is praising over in den, with felton and amare and then they clicked and turned it around...y wont this yr be different?

6)everyone knew the knicks problems going in so y is this so surprising? everyone said their backcourt is horrible...everyone knew their bench was suspect...alright then well theyll have issues until this is fixed and again this comes back to baron davis coming back...is he the savior no but he fixes alot of these issues

7)mavs started 0-4, celtics 0-3...y are the knicks being looked at under a microscope?

rwynyc
01-05-2012, 03:26 AM
I love reading all the uninformed responses in here. People who haven't watched the games and haven't clue what they are talking about. You are easy to spot. Try reading some of the real Knick fan responses and maybe you will learn a thing or two.

It isn't the defense, our defense (apart from tonight) has actually been pretty damn good. It isn't 'Melo, he has been playing out of his mind. And to those calling him a ballhog, you clearly haven't been watching the games. Even a blockhead could see 'Melo is passing more than ever, and he'd be averaging 5 digits short of a triple double if anyone on the Knicks could finish at the basket. Chandler has played great D at times, but you get the feeling this team just isn't buying into team defense yet. Chandler is frustrated, and i don't blame him. Butthurt Dallas fan is laughable.


We gave up over a 110 to the bobcats. Amare let 2 nobodies look like all stars tonight. Melo has been taking god awful shots. You have to look past stats.

jam
01-05-2012, 03:28 AM
Not to worry ladies, D'antoni will be fired soon, and Jackson will replace him :)

It's getting tougher and tougher NOT to lay the blame on D'Antoni. They have two top 15 players, and a 7' with a freakish wingspan coming off a championship season. This should be a top level front court.

NYK fans can't be terribly happy with a very mediocre finish last season either after acquiring Carmelo.

D'Antoni's as good as gone. No, Phil Jackson won't replace him.

jam
01-05-2012, 03:29 AM
We need Steve Nash thats plain and simple. He'll have this team running. Also we need to use SSOL system like the suns did (and NO just cause D'Antoni is on the Knicks doesnt mean we been using SSOL system cause we havent). We run far too much half court isos too.

Nash would be a short term rental at best; plus he's a below average defender, by his own admission.

iggypop123
01-05-2012, 03:35 AM
amare isnt healthy he is working his way back so thats problem one. the other thing is their guard rotation is absolutely garbage. fields does not fit the team whatsoever. shumpert does but he is no pg. he is a chucker( an efficient at times one but belongs at the 2). the knicks would be smart to get a pg to pair up with the oft injured davis. call minesota and offer douglas and fields for ridnour

MJ-BULLS
01-05-2012, 03:37 AM
idk what in the world is wrong with the knicks.

Knicks21
01-05-2012, 04:09 AM
I don't like the its early excuse.
I think we are going to truly struggle this season, don't set your expectations to high knicks fans.

Knicks21
01-05-2012, 04:11 AM
Im not going to waste my money on league pass this year. I mean if we had a draft pick we would get something at the end of the season, but no.

JB0B0
01-05-2012, 04:24 AM
They need to fire Mike D'Antoni. Find a defensive-minded coach

Knicks21
01-05-2012, 04:29 AM
The players just aren't responding to D'antoni, if it weren't for the offensive talent of both Amare and Melo, we would be last is offence and defence. It really isn't that hard to teach fundamentals on defence, they need to start taking pride in what they do on the defensive end.

Rain 816
01-05-2012, 04:41 AM
Melo and Amar'e can't play together.

This.....: have been saying this for a while...lebron wade n bosh work cuz they r like brothers off the court....stat n melo look like they have no clue what the other is thinkin....they r just 2 big names on the same team.....not tryin to bash or bait...just saying

abe_froman
01-05-2012, 05:04 AM
here are a few issues:
1.square peg meets round hole-the players they currently have dont fit the dantoni system.something has to give(or go).the o is either of 2 things-go to melo that becomes iso ball ..not exactl the 7 sec or less system basketball and when they do try to play suns basketball they forget they dont have the pure shooters or pg to run it properly(as great a player as melo is that trade disrupted them deeply...though no one is willing to say it because the names involved)

2.of course the d which is lacking with him

3.there's no leadership nor control coming from anyone and get the feeling most would tune out anyone from on high(coaching,fo),if they tried at this point

Ebbs
01-05-2012, 06:49 AM
Chandler just succeeded playing team defensive minded basketball. They paid him mad money to come play on a selfish offensive minded team lol.

Knicks would be smart to:

A) Fire/demote Dantoni bring in a defensive coach.
B) Trade Amare Stoudamire for a solid replacement and a true PG.

Amare/Douglas for Nash/Frye

Amare/Douglas for Lee/Curry

Him and Melo have not meshed at all

NYY09
01-05-2012, 06:55 AM
Accountability, looks like there is zero, thats on the coach. From the games that I've seen, and I'm far from a basketball guru, but it looks like their shot selection is disturbingly awful.

On another note, I always thought a coach is supposed to get the best out of his players, anyone who thinks D'Antoni is doing anything close to that is on a very large dose of LSD.

And lastly, its always some excuse for this team, it began with "the summer of 2010", then they traded the whole team for Melo, then its CP3/D12, now its BDiddy or D'Antoni must go, its all been very old for a while now. How can anyone expect anything from a team that doesnt even have their FO in order.

Yes I know its early but accountability, hard work and team play isnt a switch you turn on. Mike D, sorry man, but you need to fire yourself, if you had any respect for yourself that is.

NYY09
01-05-2012, 06:59 AM
Chandler just succeeded playing team defensive minded basketball. They paid him mad money to come play on a selfish offensive minded team lol.

Knicks would be smart to:

A) Fire/demote Dantoni bring in a defensive coach.
B) Trade Amare Stoudamire for a solid replacement and a true PG.

Amare/Douglas for Nash/Frye

Amare/Douglas for Lee/Curry

Him and Melo have not meshed at all

yes and yes. Im sure we can get a decent 2 way player to play the 4 and a pick for Amare, maybe even a decent back up pg. D'Antoni will go down as the Isiah of coaches in NY.

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MOST
01-05-2012, 07:40 AM
To soon

SINCESTARBURY25
01-05-2012, 08:35 AM
I have watched every game this year screaming at my T.v.

-Toney Douglas is a streaky player who doesn't know how to move the ball. He looks straight at the basket looking for his own shot. He considers himself a starting point guard and is working way way to hard to find his own shot when he honestly doesn't even have a good look 70 percent of the time.

-Landry Fields can be good and i have supported him since day one as our starting shooting guard, but in this offense i just dont see it anymore. He is scared to shoot the ball or drive in the paint. its almost like he is trying to be a bench player or the new Mike Bibby. Okay he definatly isn't Bibby bad but untill he mans up there is no love for him in New York.

-Melo is doing a great job but he can't do it by himself. He isn't a passer but he is trying his best which half of the time makes the offense stagnat especially with those damn ISOS that he does. This isn't what the Knicks are all about and Melo has to completley adapt to put the team in the playoffs.

-Amare Stoudemire is disapointing me left and right with his ugly Mid-range jumper that has died and the fact that a high school point guard could score all over him. He is not commited to defense at all he seems like he is trying to out-do Melo by forcing offense that just isn't happening, And he doesn't know how to get the ball to the hoop unless it is off the pick-n-roll which we don't have a point guard that can or even wants to execute right now.

-Tyson Chandler is doing exactly what i expected that he would do and honestly he was over paid really really really bad but he is doing his job. I would like to see more rebounding out of him AND AMARE!!! Half the time he also works off pick-n-roll and ally oops which i have seen been executed some with him but not enough. Saying that Tyson is not a scorer and was not signed to look for his shot.

-Iman Shumpert is going to get the starting job and it is inevitable. He is confident knows how to move on offense, creates his own shot drives the ball plays hard-core defense draws fouls cuts across court dunks the ball has pretty good handles and is a scoring punch that can add to the load if Mike D would ever let him play to his full potiental. The only worry I have for Iman is his poor shot selection which if he has an off night could kill the team and his injuries.

blahblahyoutoo
01-05-2012, 09:22 AM
What's wrong with that team? 2 superstars and a solid C, average bench but they keep losing to less talented teams. Are the players too greedy? is it the coach? bad chemistry?

Your thoughts..........

the "solid" C isn't as solid as everyone thought.

blahblahyoutoo
01-05-2012, 09:23 AM
Melo and Amar'e can't play together.

this.
2 ball stoppers in an offense that thrives on ball movement. they need a quality pg that can run the system.

Daunter
01-05-2012, 10:03 AM
They need a PG

And Melo is not selfish and not as bad at defense as you say he is.

Dankster
01-05-2012, 10:09 AM
Actually Melo isn't much of a ball stopper as people make him out to be. He'd be averaging close to 7 assists per game right now if the wing players could hit a shot. Even Amare's midrange game has been non existent this year, so I attribute alot of our issues now as just being rusty at this point on both sides of the ball.

It's too soon for this thread anyway. If these struggles are still apparent by the 25-30 game mark, than panic mode should start kicking in for Knicks fans.

AndyfromNeptune
01-05-2012, 10:51 AM
It would be nice if half the posters in this thread could actually say they've seen a knicks game this year.

Melo hasn't been a ball stopper at all. He has played point forward pretty well with some really sweet passes. His defense has been nothing short of outstanding. His rebounding leads the team. He could be an early MVP candidate.

Amar'e has been the problem. I like Amar'e. I love when he's playing great on offense. But sadly, this year, he has been inefficient thus far. Defensively, he has always been abominable so I expect nothing better. He is our star and he needs to step up.

Chandler has played up to expectations.

Iman Shumpert if he stays healthy could be one of the top rookies in this class.

Toney Douglas has played well defensively and has shown signs of improvement thus far at the point. He will get better.



The Knicks are not in as bad shape as everyone thinks they are. It really comes to how committed Amar'e is to regaining his play from last year very soon. Defensively we have been much improved from last year. Offensively we will get things together. D'antoni's offense has a habit of doing that.

Our team is going to be really scary in the playoffs and look for us to start making a nice run 20 games in. Let's give it time. We will be in the playoffs.

We are the type of team that can beat great teams on any night but struggle against the mediocre teams. Was like that last year. For us to be a dominant team, we need to make that step up.

On any night, I feel we could beat the Celtics, Bulls, and Heat. Only team that scares me is the Lakers beacuse of their length and height..and well Kobe one of the best, if not the best player in the game.

daleja424
01-05-2012, 11:14 AM
Actually Melo isn't much of a ball stopper as people make him out to be. He'd be averaging close to 7 assists per game right now if the wing players could hit a shot. Even Amare's midrange game has been non existent this year, so I attribute alot of our issues now as just being rusty at this point on both sides of the ball.

It's too soon for this thread anyway. If these struggles are still apparent by the 25-30 game mark, than panic mode should start kicking in for Knicks fans.

:facepalm:

And chris paul would average 25 apg if everyone hit their shots. And Lebron would average 20.

Thats not really your argument right? You are not really suggesting that Melo plays 40 minutes and passes the ball 7 times and it is his teammates fault people consider him a ball stopper?

SportsAndrew25
01-05-2012, 11:16 AM
We are losing because this team consistently uncommitted to Defense. We will not win until we have a commitment to defense.

AntiG
01-05-2012, 11:16 AM
Diagnosis? Herniated dick.

daleja424
01-05-2012, 11:25 AM
Id say the Knicks are losing b/c of two main reasons:

a) no defense
b) poor supporting cast (48% FGs from Amare/Melo/Chandler, 36% from everyone else)

king4day
01-05-2012, 11:25 AM
They need a PG like Nash. Amar'e is just wondering around when he should be the focal point of the offense.

Every play down the court should start with an Amar'e pick and roll attempt. If that fails, give it up to Melo to score.

NYY09
01-05-2012, 11:28 AM
It would be nice if half the posters in this thread could actually say they've seen a knicks game this year.

Melo hasn't been a ball stopper at all. He has played point forward pretty well with some really sweet passes. His defense has been nothing short of outstanding. His rebounding leads the team. He could be an early MVP candidate.

Amar'e has been the problem. I like Amar'e. I love when he's playing great on offense. But sadly, this year, he has been inefficient thus far. Defensively, he has always been abominable so I expect nothing better. He is our star and he needs to step up.

Chandler has played up to expectations.

Iman Shumpert if he stays healthy could be one of the top rookies in this class.

Toney Douglas has played well defensively and has shown signs of improvement thus far at the point. He will get better.



The Knicks are not in as bad shape as everyone thinks they are. It really comes to how committed Amar'e is to regaining his play from last year very soon. Defensively we have been much improved from last year. Offensively we will get things together. D'antoni's offense has a habit of doing that.

Our team is going to be really scary in the playoffs and look for us to start making a nice run 20 games in. Let's give it time. We will be in the playoffs.

We are the type of team that can beat great teams on any night but struggle against the mediocre teams. Was like that last year. For us to be a dominant team, we need to make that step up.

On any night, I feel we could beat the Celtics, Bulls, and Heat. Only team that scares me is the Lakers beacuse of their length and height..and well Kobe one of the best, if not the best player in the game.


At this point, that is an inaccurate statement. All we are is a bunch players wearing identical uniforms, lets not try and sugarcoat any of this, and FFS can we stop with the excuses. The Knicks, right now, stink. Period.

KnicksR4Real
01-05-2012, 11:33 AM
Dantoni sucks, and our defense sucks

NYY09
01-05-2012, 11:33 AM
Id say the Knicks are losing b/c of two main reasons:

a) no defense
b) poor supporting cast (48% FGs from Amare/Melo/Chandler, 36% from everyone else)

This problem is easily solved, you dont show an effort, consistently, on D you dont play. What the hell is so hard about that? I know, our coach left whatever balls he had in Phoenix, anyone watching games can see his body language.

As many posters have stated numerous times, a lack of effort is UNACCEPTABLE, and that falls strictly on the coach.

daleja424
01-05-2012, 11:40 AM
This problem is easily solved, you dont show an effort, consistently, on D you dont play. What the hell is so hard about that? I know, our coach left whatever balls he had in Phoenix, anyone watching games can see his body language.

As many posters have stated numerous times, a lack of effort is UNACCEPTABLE, and that falls strictly on the coach.

yup. dantoni is as good as gone if knicks dont make the ecf this year IMO.

and I wouldnt be suprised to see him fired in season if the knicks hover around .500 too long.

effen5
01-05-2012, 11:44 AM
Knicks fans overrated the Knicks...what else needs to be said.

Any logical fan can see that adding Tyson would just frustrate him since he would be the only person playing defense, and this team has too many holes.

Da Knicks
01-05-2012, 11:45 AM
Our problem is that we have Toney Douglas running the point when he is clearly a shooting guard who is filling the gap till Baron comes in. Toney does not break his defender down and cannot run a pick and roll to save his life. He stops the ball and gets trapped, he shoots a three everytime he gets a chance. Its not his fault that the team has to rely on him right now with no other choices besides Iman who is just a rookie and is a shooting guard himself.

Toney will be great off the bench and could be a spark if used the right way because the guy can score if you ask him too. Melo is playing great basketball right now so i guess some of the people in here have not seen him play this year. Fields will end up backing Melo since both cannot coexist since Melo does everything that Fields does X2. Off the bench Fields along with Toney Douglas could be a boost once Davis and Shumpert take over the starting roles.

Lastly and many will make fun of this Jeffries is needed for his defense and hustle since that is contagious. He does not command the ball on offense leaving Melo and Stat very happy. Another thing that needs to happen is Kenyon Martin coming over to make the bench alot stronger and bigger!

justinnum1
01-05-2012, 11:46 AM
d league backcourt, and they dont play defense

anyone thinking chandler would turn them into a top 10 defense is kidding themselves

There is offense is bad to, they need to share the ball, and i doubr baron davis can fix all the problems. they need backcourt depth

Oh, and there coach is mike dantoni

ChicagoRox
01-05-2012, 11:52 AM
lol its early

but mike dantoni is an idiot. that is all.

This is too true. With a decent coach the Knicks could be going places.

EnWhyKay
01-05-2012, 12:01 PM
They need a PG like Nash. Amar'e is just wondering around when he should be the focal point of the offense.

Every play down the court should start with an Amar'e pick and roll attempt. If that fails, give it up to Melo to score.

This....

I think Baron Davis is capable.. But we'll see...

Kashmir13579
01-05-2012, 12:03 PM
:facepalm:

And chris paul would average 25 apg if everyone hit their shots. And Lebron would average 20.

Thats not really your argument right? You are not really suggesting that Melo plays 40 minutes and passes the ball 7 times and it is his teammates fault people consider him a ball stopper?

Dude i'm sorry, but you have not been paying attention. Its that simple. I'm not one to overrate 'Melo. In fact, i'm considered a 'Melo hater in the Knicks forum. 'Melo has been looking to pass more than he ever has, and it shows in the numbers. If you actually watched the games, you would see 'Melo setting guys up (harrelson, douglas, balkman) only for them to blow open lay-ups. It has been happening on the reg. Nobody outside of 'Melo can hit a shot right now and it isn't his fault.

From detractors standpoints, people who assume without having the proper information, see that as an excuse, but its reality.

EnWhyKay
01-05-2012, 12:08 PM
Dude i'm sorry, but you have not been paying attention. Its that simple. I'm not one to overrate 'Melo. In fact, i'm considered a 'Melo hater in the Knicks forum. 'Melo has been looking to pass more than he ever has, and it shows in the numbers. If you actually watched the games, you would see 'Melo setting guys up (harrelson, douglas, balkman) only for them to blow open lay-ups. It has been happening on the reg. Nobody outside of 'Melo can hit a shot right now and it isn't his fault.

From detractors standpoints, people who assume without having the proper information, see that as an excuse, but its reality.

Kashmir leave it alone man.. It obvious a lot of these folks dont watch the knicks.. If you watch the Knicks.. You know the issue starts with the PG... Who consistently comes down and takes quick threes which lead to leak outs and layups for the other teams.. Also a lack of depth coming off the bench.. We have been atrocious in the 2nd quarter... And the defense has been abysmal...

Nets/Raiders!
01-05-2012, 12:17 PM
The problem is not at PG. The problem is defense. Anytime you let the Bobcats score well over 100 points, ITS DEFENSE that is the problem. D'Antoni needs to be fired. Larry Brown needs to return.

People thought Chandler was the man and he got signed to a $20M contract. They thought he revived the entire Dallas defense by himself. Nope, the whole Dallas team was defensive minded. We may have started out slow but our defensive intensity has returned. Chandler was expected to fix all of the Knicks defensive and rebounding woes. You can't do that if the whole team doesn't want to play defense and want to outscore everyone. Chandler can't guard everybody. The Knicks are paying the man 20M to be ineffective. :pity:

The only players on the Knicks that play solid effort defense is Iman Shumpert, Chandler,Fields, Balkman, and sometimes Stoudemire. That has to change. I'm from Jersey so I watch the Knicks all the time.

sep11ie
01-05-2012, 12:19 PM
Trollin.

EnWhyKay
01-05-2012, 12:24 PM
The problem is not at PG. The problem is defense. Anytime you let the Bobcats score well over 100 points, ITS DEFENSE that is the problem. D'Antoni needs to be fired. Larry Brown needs to return.

People thought Chandler was the man and he got signed to a $20M contract. They thought he revived the entire Dallas defense by himself. Nope, the whole Dallas team was defensive minded. We may have started out slow but our defensive intensity has returned. Chandler was expected to fix all of the Knicks defensive and rebounding woes. You can't do that if the whole team doesn't want to play defense and want to outscore everyone. Chandler can't guard everybody. The Knicks are paying the man 20M to be ineffective. :pity:

The only players on the Knicks that play solid effort defense is Iman Shumpert, Chandler,Fields, Balkman, and sometimes Stoudemire. That has to change. I'm from Jersey so I watch the Knicks all the time.

I agree in that defense is an issue.. BUT it start offensively as well.. If we take a three and there is a long rebound.. The opposing team can leak out for fast breaks... And in the NBA with all of the athletes is it very hard to defend teams in transition.. That is what I saw.. Good offense can allow the defense to get back and set up. And too many times the offense was bad.. Which is on the PG.. Just watch the games and you will see it clear as day..

Badluck33
01-05-2012, 12:25 PM
The Knicks are just a PG, SG, Coach, depth on bench and to start playing defense and I think they can win the ship.

P Styles
01-05-2012, 12:36 PM
The problem is the lack of defense. And the lack of accountability for the lack of defense.

RC3
01-05-2012, 12:40 PM
Fire mike d'antoni and get a coach with a good track record. Like Phil Jackson. No Larry browns, flip Saunders, Scott skills. They don't need another coach that performs like d'antoni. If a popovich like coach is possible, you hire him. But who knows bring Jeff van gundy back.:)

Nycbball08
01-05-2012, 12:41 PM
Ya'll need to shut the h....l up, great talent means nothing....Chemistry is everything as proven by Miami last season, it got to the point where the Heat players were crying in the locker room...these guys need time to jell.. Back off
Trolls...

Nets/Raiders!
01-05-2012, 12:41 PM
I agree in that defense is an issue.. BUT it start offensively as well.. If we take a three and there is a long rebound.. The opposing team can leak out for fast breaks... And in the NBA with all of the athletes is it very hard to defend teams in transition.. That is what I saw.. Good offense can allow the defense to get back and set up. And too many times the offense was bad.. Which is on the PG.. Just watch the games and you will see it clear as day..

agreed, they should have kept somebody like Felton or something. They had to get rid of Billups for Chandler but shouldn't have.

Amare1
01-05-2012, 12:42 PM
Here are the problems:

Pringles is a horrible coach

Tony Douglas is the worst PG in the NBA because not only does he suck but he thinks he is good

Landry Fields is a shooting guard who can't do anything except make one play a game and then go hide in his shell

oak2455
01-05-2012, 12:53 PM
Baron can make a difference and let TD come off the bench....that could make a diiference:eyebrow: But the bench and team needs to play better as a whole.....like some defense:speechless: This is where Mike D'Antoni needs to wake the **** up or just go , this man looks clueless:facepalm: so we shall see in the coming weeks, but its too early...too early!!!!

justinnum1
01-05-2012, 01:00 PM
i would agree davis can make a difference, i would say with davis, knicks have a chance of making it out the first round, but they really need to commit to playing D.

strahan92osi72
01-05-2012, 01:04 PM
It is too early to panic, but it's a few things. Amare and Melo are getting their points, but not because they're shooting well, they have not been very good shooting from the field. That won't last long though, once they get the rust off and shoot better they will be able to carry the team and hide all of the other problems on the team. Now as far as the problems, everybody on the roster other than Amare, Melo, Chandler, and Iman are trash. Fields was a flash in the pan that is being exposed, he's got no upside at all in his game. TD is a bench player who is much more effective off the bench, he's garbage as a starter, especially at PG. But the biggest problem of all is Mike D. I've never seen a team being held back from their potential from their coach more so than Mike D. They have to fire him ASAP and let Woodson do the job. As long as Mike D is here, they will never reach their full potential. I mean we're talking about a coach that believes Jeffries could start on a contending team, lol. They live and die with threes and defense is not preached. After Mike D is fired, the next thing to do is let Iman start. I don't care that he's a rookie, the upside is too high and even an Iman going through growing pains in >>>>>>>>>Douglas starting at the point.

strahan92osi72
01-05-2012, 01:05 PM
i would agree davis can make a difference, i would say with davis, knicks have a chance of making it out the first round, but they really need to commit to playing D.

As long as Dumbtoni is their head coach, that will never happen.

72 Wins
01-05-2012, 01:05 PM
Plain and simple, D'Antoni's system will not bring a championship to NY. You can't change him at this point. Dump D'Antoni, get a legit PG, and try to get Phil Jackson. I still think Jackson could be enticed to come back to NY.

oak2455
01-05-2012, 01:10 PM
i would agree davis can make a difference, i would say with davis, knicks have a chance of making it out the first round, but they really need to commit to playing D.

say hello to a new coach:pray::pray::pray:

PurpleJesus
01-05-2012, 01:14 PM
For a team who's fan base seems to think that they have their choice of free agents, and which players to pick up in trades, they sure are bad.

strahan92osi72
01-05-2012, 01:15 PM
say hello to a new coach:pray::pray::pray:

I really like that Dolan has become more instrumental and getting more involved in his team. He successfully replaced Donnie with a very competent GM in Grunwald. That being said, he really has to grow a pair and let the clown go. I'm sure he's got Phil Jax on his radar, but in the meantime let Woodson show what he can do. He had success in Atlanta and can only be better.

faze38
01-05-2012, 01:29 PM
Man people need to relax. I have no clue why this is in the NBA forum? The Knicks are a team that is still learning to play together yes it is a struggle but people need to realize this team is dangerous and once it clicks everyone better watch out. The funny thing to me is people diagnosing a team that they dont watch. Also that Maverick fan that keeps acting like they already have dwight locked up is laughable cause I doubt he ends up there but only time will tell. Also all the haters enjoy this while u can because before u know it we will be passing your team by as we battle the Thunder, Heat, Clippers and Bulls for the right to be champs for the next 4-5 years.

oak2455
01-05-2012, 01:36 PM
Man people need to relax. I have no clue why this is in the NBA forum? The Knicks are a team that is still learning to play together yes it is a struggle but people need to realize this team is dangerous and once it clicks everyone better watch out. The funny thing to me is people diagnosing a team that they dont watch. Also that Maverick fan that keeps acting like they already have dwight locked up is laughable cause I doubt he ends up there but only time will tell. Also all the haters enjoy this while u can because before u know it we will be passing your team by as we battle the Thunder, Heat, Clippers and Bulls for the right to be champs for the next 4-5 years.

Dwight will be a Laker, Dwill a Mav and the Knicks will be just fine:clap:

SteBO
01-05-2012, 01:37 PM
Man people need to relax. I have no clue why this is in the NBA forum? The Knicks are a team that is still learning to play together yes it is a struggle but people need to realize this team is dangerous and once it clicks everyone better watch out. The funny thing to me is people diagnosing a team that they dont watch. Also that Maverick fan that keeps acting like they already have dwight locked up is laughable cause I doubt he ends up there but only time will tell. Also all the haters enjoy this while u can because before u know it we will be passing your team by as we battle the Thunder, Heat, Clippers and Bulls for the right to be champs for the next 4-5 years.
I agree with this completely. I still think it's inexusable for the Knicks to lose to TOR and CHA back to back at home, but it's only been 6 games guys. Wait until March or so before we start labeling them a borderline playoff team. They aren't even completely whole yet. Miami went through the same **** last year; it's no different.

thephoenixson28
01-05-2012, 01:39 PM
I say point guard help. Everyone is talking about the system but he won in Phoenix with the same thing. They need a Passing PG someone like Nash to take off the pressure for everyone else.

Hawkeye15
01-05-2012, 01:39 PM
really? Didn't we cover this 3 weeks ago? The only difference now is Knicks fans are seeing its a reality that they aren't a top 3 team in the east.

No guard play, no depth, no defense.

Not sure when it will sink in with their fan base, but you are still a year or two away, and need more pieces. It doesn't help that Stoudemire has started awful.

strahan92osi72
01-05-2012, 01:43 PM
Man people need to relax. I have no clue why this is in the NBA forum? The Knicks are a team that is still learning to play together yes it is a struggle but people need to realize this team is dangerous and once it clicks everyone better watch out. The funny thing to me is people diagnosing a team that they dont watch. Also that Maverick fan that keeps acting like they already have dwight locked up is laughable cause I doubt he ends up there but only time will tell. Also all the haters enjoy this while u can because before u know it we will be passing your team by as we battle the Thunder, Heat, Clippers and Bulls for the right to be champs for the next 4-5 years.

When they fire Dumbtoni and take the kid gloves off Iman and let him start, I will relax a bit. Once this happens, all they need is a piece or two for the bench and then they can go to battle. TD is much better off the bench and they can use a legit backup to Amare and Chandler. Kenyon Martin would be a great addition for example. But the biggest problem holding this team back is Mike D. If you can't see that you're not paying attention.

Dankster
01-05-2012, 01:44 PM
:facepalm:

And chris paul would average 25 apg if everyone hit their shots. And Lebron would average 20.

Thats not really your argument right? You are not really suggesting that Melo plays 40 minutes and passes the ball 7 times and it is his teammates fault people consider him a ball stopper?

Well I take it you probably haven't watched much of the knicks and are making your statement (albeit in a patronized way,) due to the lack of actually seeing them play. I stated he would be averaging close to 7 assists per game because that seems to be a pragmatic projection for how he's played thus far. It's a fair assessment to make, I think, considering his teammates are missing wide open layups and wide open jumpers.

I don't think LBJ is dealing with the offensive stagnation/rust that the Knicks are dealing with champ and his statistics are reflecting that.

And come on with the 7 pass comment, that's silly talk. Nobody has that level of efficiency to ONLY pass the ball 7 times in a game and get 7 assists from it. Over 50% of our offense is ran through Melo playing the Point Forward. his time of possessions and the excellent passes he's been making up to this point aren't reflected in the least bit by his statistics.

smith&wesson
01-05-2012, 01:47 PM
DANTONI! the guy needs to go and a defensive coach needs to replace him.

SeoulBeatz
01-05-2012, 01:52 PM
coach does not know how to set up a defense to save his life.

the two stars are greedy with their shots, not team players

the two stars ( and everyone else except chandler) are mediocre at best at defense.

They dont have a legit Pg to organize the offense.

:clap:

nysportsfan02
01-05-2012, 02:03 PM
What's with all the excuses like "time to gel", etc.?

This team is who they are. Davis will help if he's healthy and motivated but this who they are. They are a team filled with two overrated lazy "superstars" who only play one side of the ball and do not mix, one center who isn't good enough to mask all their defensive troubles, no depth, and a head coach who is nothing without a superstar PG in Nash. Really nothing to see here. What are people waiting for? This team is not good and very poorly constructed.

Punk
01-05-2012, 02:22 PM
This thread is insulting. You cannot "diagnose" something if you do not watch it. The Knicks ARE Improved defensively but the problem is the COACH is not doing his job. Everyone looked lost on defense last night because they have no plan on that end of the ball. You have to create a TEAM defense to go against certain teams and apparently, we only do it against good teams in the D'antoni/Woodson logic.

He is not bring a mindset to make this team a killer and shutting down lesser teams. He doesn't show any anger towards losses like this.

Nobody created a thread like this when we beat Boston or when we held teams to low shooting. Don't create one now.

IF you want to know what's "wrong" how about visit the Knick forum and figure it out. Threads like this just piss me off.

It has nothing to do with the players, it has to do with the coach, his system and his ability to inspire and do what he is paid to do and COACH.

effen5
01-05-2012, 02:23 PM
really? Didn't we cover this 3 weeks ago? The only difference now is Knicks fans are seeing its a reality that they aren't a top 3 team in the east.

No guard play, no depth, no defense.

Not sure when it will sink in with their fan base, but you are still a year or two away, and need more pieces. It doesn't help that Stoudemire has started awful.

This....

/thread

effen5
01-05-2012, 02:24 PM
This thread is insulting. You cannot "diagnose" something if you do not watch it. The Knicks ARE Improved defensively but the problem is the COACH is not doing his job. Everyone looked lost on defense last night because they have no plan on that end of the ball. You have to create a TEAM defense to go against certain teams and apparently, we only do it against good teams in the D'antoni/Woodson logic.

He is not bring a mindset to make this team a killer and shutting down lesser teams. He doesn't show any anger towards losses like this.

Nobody created a thread like this when we beat Boston or when we held teams to low shooting. Don't create one now.

IF you want to know what's "wrong" how about visit the Knick forum and figure it out. Threads like this just piss me off.

It has nothing to do with the players, it has to do with the coach, his system and his ability to inspire and do what he is paid to do and COACH.

How much is "vastly"?

Like horrible to now terrible?

Kashmir13579
01-05-2012, 02:29 PM
So many people talking out of their ***** in here.
Like Punk said, if you want to know what is wrong with the Knicks, visit the Knicks forum or read a real fan's post. What ever happened to keeping your mouth shut when you have a lack of information and understanding?

All i'm seeing in here is trolls bashing 'Melo and the defense, neither of those two areas are in direct correlation with the Knicks slow start. The defense is much improved and 'Melo is balling out of control. Funny how none of you trolls even know it is our OFFENSE that is the problem.

Whatever, i'm done with this thread. troll bait.

Punk
01-05-2012, 02:29 PM
How much is "vastly"?

Like horrible to now terrible?

Where did I say vastly?

Last season: Knicks allowed 106 points per game, 48% FG shooting, 47% 3 point shooting.

This season so far: Knicks allowing 95 points per game, 44% FG shooting, 40% 3 point shooting.

Overall, we were 28th in defense last year. So far we are 16th-18th this year.

We lose ONE Game and everyone wants to create stupid threads like this. Apparently Carmelo is so selfish and greedy, he is averaging 6 assists in games when our offense is shooting correctly.

The problem with the Knicks right now is: Bad offensive nights; Good defensive games then some nights, Good offensive nights; Bad defensive games.

We're trying to find the medium and we went through this TWICE and we were perfectly fine after each stretch of losing streaks.

Hawkeye15
01-05-2012, 02:30 PM
This thread is insulting. You cannot "diagnose" something if you do not watch it. The Knicks ARE Improved defensively but the problem is the COACH is not doing his job. Everyone looked lost on defense last night because they have no plan on that end of the ball. You have to create a TEAM defense to go against certain teams and apparently, we only do it against good teams in the D'antoni/Woodson logic.

He is not bring a mindset to make this team a killer and shutting down lesser teams. He doesn't show any anger towards losses like this.

Nobody created a thread like this when we beat Boston or when we held teams to low shooting. Don't create one now.

IF you want to know what's "wrong" how about visit the Knick forum and figure it out. Threads like this just piss me off.

It has nothing to do with the players, it has to do with the coach, his system and his ability to inspire and do what he is paid to do and COACH.

Knicks were 22nd in defensive rating last year, 25th so far this year.

Sorry it insults you that people would bring up that the Knicks are not worthy of being expected to be a contender, just because it has 2 shiny names on its roster. The fact is, many knowledgeable posters here, even some Knicks fans, pointed out the obvious flaws with that roster. You can be offended all you want, but its not just PSD. Flip to espn, or anywhere, and the Knicks poor level of play is being talked about.

When you get a team that is followed by millions and followed hardcore by local media, expect the criticism to be just as hard as the hype and excitement.

Kashmir13579
01-05-2012, 02:32 PM
Where did I say vastly?



Overall, we were 28th in defense last year. So far we are 16th-18th this year.



Knicks were 22nd in defensive rating last year, 25th so far this year.



Contrasting statements... Links?

Hawkeye15
01-05-2012, 02:32 PM
So many people talking out of their ***** in here.
Like Punk said, if you want to know what is wrong with the Knicks, visit the Knicks forum or read a real fan's post. What ever happened to keeping your mouth shut when you have a lack of information and understanding?

All i'm seeing in here is trolls bashing 'Melo and the defense, neither of those two areas are in direct correlation with the Knicks slow start. The defense is much improved and 'Melo is balling out of control. Funny how none of you trolls even know it is our OFFENSE that is the problem.

Whatever, i'm done with this thread. troll bait.

well, in all fairness, their defense is exactly why most of the intelligent posters said the Knicks are not contenders. But yeah man, they are 14th in offensive efficiency, and any Mike D led team will die with that low of a rating. Their offense will get better, but I wonder how much better with no real PG. They are a year away unless Baron somehow thinks its 2007 when he gets back.

Hawkeye15
01-05-2012, 02:34 PM
Contrasting statements... Links?

2010-11


42-40, Finished 2nd in NBA Atlantic Division (Schedule and Results)
Coach: Mike D'Antoni (42-40)

PTS/G: 106.5 (2nd of 30) ▪ Opp PTS/G: 105.7 (28th of 30)
SRS: 0.48 (15th of 30) ▪ Pace: 95.6 (3rd of 30)
Off Rtg: 110.9 (7th of 30) ▪ Def Rtg: 110.1 (22nd of 30)
Expected W-L: 43-39 (15th of 30)

2011-12


2-4, 4th in NBA Atlantic Division (Schedule and Results)
Coach: Mike D'Antoni (2-4)

PTS/G: 95.8 (13th of 30) ▪ Opp PTS/G: 99.2 (27th of 30)
SRS: -6.34 (24th of 30) ▪ Pace: 92.6 (11th of 30)
Off Rtg: 103.5 (16th of 30) ▪ Def Rtg: 107.1 (25th of 30)
Expected W-L: 2-4 (21st of 30)

He is using per game numbers (:pity:). The Knicks are slower this year, hence less possessions, hence less points scored for their opponent.

Hollinger's ratings have them 23rd. 21st last year. Point is, they still suck on defense. Hard.

Punk
01-05-2012, 02:37 PM
Knicks were 22nd in defensive rating last year, 25th so far this year.


No. We were 28th last year. Denver was 22nd.

We WERE 16th-18th in defense holding teams to 95 PPG. With the loss, we are now giving up 99PPG and are ranked 27th in defense.

This is the problem. You want to throw out the stat when we lose the game, instead of the stats prior to this loss.

Of course people want to know what's wrong but I didn't see a thread like this for Dallas?

Hawkeye15
01-05-2012, 02:40 PM
No. We were 28th last year. Denver was 22nd.

We WERE 16th-18th in defense holding teams to 95 PPG. With the loss, we are now giving up 99PPG and are ranked 27th in defense.

This is the problem. You want to throw out the stat when we lose the game, instead of the stats prior to this loss.

Of course people want to know what's wrong but I didn't see a thread like this for Dallas?

see my post above. Per game is garbage dude, you should know this.

Punk
01-05-2012, 02:41 PM
Fact is the Knicks started out 3-8 under the Amare/Felton era and eventually won 8 straight.

After the Melo trade, we won a few games and then lost 6 in a row. EVERYONE talked about that. Then, towards the end won 7 straight but no threads about that.

We'll be fine. The issue here is the coach, nothing more, nothing less.

Kashmir13579
01-05-2012, 02:44 PM
well, in all fairness, their defense is exactly why most of the intelligent posters said the Knicks are not contenders. But yeah man, they are 14th in offensive efficiency, and any Mike D led team will die with that low of a rating. Their offense will get better, but I wonder how much better with no real PG. They are a year away unless Baron somehow thinks its 2007 when he gets back.


It really rests on Baron's shoulders at this point. I'm not even talking about contention. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know it would be a cinderella story if the Knicks make it out of the second round this year.

2010-11



2011-12



He is using per game numbers (:pity:). The Knicks are slower this year, hence less possessions, hence less points scored for their opponent.

Hollinger's ratings have them 23rd. 21st last year. Point is, they still suck on defense. Hard.

Simple enough. Makes sense. Thank you kind sir! :D


This is where i cite my eyes and what i see, apart from last nights debacle, i'm seeing a lot more contested shots in the paint. Harrelson (who didn't play last night) has a solid understanding of staying grounded, or going straight up to contest shots around the hoop. I'd be interested to see strictly interior defense stats and if they back up what my eyes are seeing.

Our guards are not closing out and teams have been destroying us from the perimeter, which i think has more to do with our poor defensive rating, than a lack of effort from our bigs. I can tell you right now, it isn't easy for teams to get looks around the rim when Harrelson and Chandler are banging down low. Then there is Amar'e, which i won't even touch.

Hawkeye15
01-05-2012, 02:44 PM
Fact is the Knicks started out 3-8 under the Amare/Felton era and eventually won 8 straight.

After the Melo trade, we won a few games and then lost 6 in a row. EVERYONE talked about that. Then, towards the end won 7 straight but no threads about that.

We'll be fine. The issue here is the coach, nothing more, nothing less.

the coaching is for sure a factor, but you can not deny (I mean, I guess you can but its just that, denial), that you have no guard play, minimal depth, 2 stars that have never cared about sharing or defending, and a coach who has never cared about protecting the rim.

The Knicks are exactly what they are. A team that will make the playoffs and get beat by one of the more complete teams in the east. They need more help at guard, more depth, and a coach that gives a **** about defense. I love the Woodson addition, but now you need players that actually care about defense. Because Melo and Stat just don't. Never have, probably never will.

Punk
01-05-2012, 02:45 PM
2010-11



2011-12



He is using per game numbers (:pity:). The Knicks are slower this year, hence less possessions, hence less points scored for their opponent.

Hollinger's ratings have them 23rd. 21st last year. Point is, they still suck on defense. Hard.
Hollinger is a joke. Find some other credible source, please. Hollinger spends his time trashing everything about the Knicks and not the stats either.

He was the first one to say we had no pieces, Gallinari was a one trick pony, Mozgov was an overhyped scrub. Soon as we trade them for Melo, he begins to say the Nuggets robbed us of "extraordinary talent"

Find another stats website, because he sucks.

Hawkeye15
01-05-2012, 02:47 PM
It really rests on Baron's shoulders at this point. I'm not even talking about contention. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know it would be a cinderella story if the Knicks make it out of the second round this year.


Simple enough. Makes sense. Thank you kind sir! :D


This is where i cite my eyes and what i see, apart from last nights debacle, i'm seeing a lot more contested shots in the paint. Harrelson (who didn't play last night) has a solid understanding of staying grounded, or going straight up to contest shots around the hoop. I'd be interested to see strictly interior defense stats and if they back up what my eyes are seeing.

Our guards are not closing out and teams have been destroying us from the perimeter, which i think has more to do with our poor defensive rating, than a lack of effort from our bigs. I can tell you right now, it isn't easy for teams to get looks around the rim when Harrelson and Chandler are banging down low. Then there is Amar'e, which i won't even touch.


The Knicks paint defense is the least of their concerns. The guards aren't closing at all in rotation, and they aren't turning penetrators. Not even Chandler can deal with a wing coming at him 80 mph.

Amare has started awful. That will change, but I can't see the Knicks hosting a playoff series this year, unless Baron is far better than anyone should expect a player coming off a long injury will be.

They will be better over the next couple of years, as they are able to add some guard depth, and Shumpert and Fields grow into their roles. But they are really not a threat to Miami or Chicago this year in the slightest.

Kashmir13579
01-05-2012, 02:48 PM
Hawkeye, 'Melo has been dishing, swishing, and defending. I know its not in his M.O., and i know its only been 6 games, but it has been the case thus far. 'Melo is averaging the highest APG and AST% of his career for a reason. And believe me when i tell you, if it wasn't for the lack of talent in the backcourt and lack of depth (which you just mentioned) 'Melo would be very close to averaging a double double.

Hawkeye15
01-05-2012, 02:49 PM
Hollinger is a joke. Find some other credible source, please. Hollinger spends his time trashing everything about the Knicks and not the stats either.

He was the first one to say we had no pieces, Gallinari was a one trick pony, Mozgov was an overhyped scrub. Soon as we trade them for Melo, he begins to say the Nuggets robbed us of "extraordinary talent"

Find another stats website, because he sucks.

The other ratings were a different site bro. And someone thinking Hollinger is a joke always cracks me up. He has a job as a leading writer for espn in statistics, you don't.

AddiX
01-05-2012, 02:50 PM
2010-11



2011-12



He is using per game numbers (:pity:). The Knicks are slower this year, hence less possessions, hence less points scored for their opponent.

Hollinger's ratings have them 23rd. 21st last year. Point is, they still suck on defense. Hard.

Not sure why my fellow knick fans are arguing against this, pretty obvious.

We cant win with mike d, and people can say its melo, were slower, amare, etc etc, no pg, but that's nonsense. It's our coach. Mike is completely lost tryingnto coach this team, as he's been lost trying to coach every team he's had since he's been here.

None of the mike d teams here have had a clue what to do any any situation.

This years team DOES play defense. They try hard at it, the provlem, is they are just completely lost.

I think talent wise we are a top team, but it takes a coach to put it together, and mike is a one trick pony. None if whats going on so far this year surprised me, I expected this. Question is how long mike gets to hang around.

effen5
01-05-2012, 02:51 PM
Hollinger is a joke. Find some other credible source, please. Hollinger spends his time trashing everything about the Knicks and not the stats either.

He was the first one to say we had no pieces, Gallinari was a one trick pony, Mozgov was an overhyped scrub. Soon as we trade them for Melo, he begins to say the Nuggets robbed us of "extraordinary talent"

Find another stats website, because he sucks.

Well I think he just pointed out your defense sucks.

Thats it.

Knicks defense sucks.

2-4, 4th in NBA Atlantic Division (Schedule and Results)
Coach: Mike D'Antoni (2-4)

PTS/G: 95.8 (13th of 30) ▪ Opp PTS/G: 99.2 (27th of 30)
SRS: -6.34 (24th of 30) ▪ Pace: 92.6 (11th of 30)
Off Rtg: 103.5 (16th of 30) ▪ Def Rtg: 107.1 (25th of 30)
Expected W-L: 2-4 (21st of 30)

Punk
01-05-2012, 02:52 PM
the coaching is for sure a factor, but you can not deny (I mean, I guess you can but its just that, denial), that you have no guard play, minimal depth, 2 stars that have never cared about sharing or defending, and a coach who has never cared about protecting the rim.

See, dumb posts like these are what annoys us. Amare never cared about sharing but was the guy who recruited Carmelo to join this team.



The Knicks are exactly what they are. A team that will make the playoffs and get beat by one of the more complete teams in the east. They need more help at guard, more depth, and a coach that gives a **** about defense. I love the Woodson addition, but now you need players that actually care about defense. Because Melo and Stat just don't. Never have, probably never will.
Again, have you ever watched a SINGLE stretch of Knick games? Because, I do not appreciate talking with no real knowledge of what you are saying.

Melo has done his job on defense. EVERY SINGLE GAME. He's been passing at a high level, he's been finding teammates, he's been averaging 5-6 assists when our offense shoots a high percentage.

Melo never cared about defense, yet the Nuggets ranked Top 15 in defense during their 50 win seasons. Makes perfect sense.

Amare has never been put in a defensive team. He needs someone that tells him where to be and where to go that is called DIRECTION.

They care to play defense, It's about directing, leading, teaching and making it simple.

The Knicks switched on defense every single position last night per orders of Woodson, D'antoni. Is that the players fault? Is it Amare's fault that he has to guard DJ Augustin on certain possessions because Toney Douglas looks lost?

Again, It's just moronic to make statements without watching, knowing, speaking to fans who watch this team day in and day out. Outsider's opinion or not.

Hawkeye15
01-05-2012, 02:52 PM
Hawkeye, 'Melo has been dishing, swishing, and defending. I know its not in his M.O., and i know its only been 6 games, but it has been the case thus far. 'Melo is averaging the highest APG and AST% of his career for a reason. And believe me when i tell you, if it wasn't for the lack of talent in the backcourt and lack of depth (which you just mentioned) 'Melo would be very close to averaging a double double.

I was surprised the other day when I saw he is holding his man to a PER of 11 or something, and that his assist percentage was that of an average PG. But its 6 games, so I have to stick with the 850 games of sample size of selfish Melo haha. But hey, if he can maintain it, he will shake the selfish label from knowledgeable posters, even though the average guy never changes his mind after a reputation is made (ZBo the chucker, Dirk a bad defender for example),

Kashmir13579
01-05-2012, 02:53 PM
I was surprised the other day when I saw he is holding his man to a PER of 11 or something, and that his assist percentage was that of an average PG. But its 6 games, so I have to stick with the 850 games of sample size of selfish Melo haha. But hey, if he can maintain it, he will shake the selfish label from knowledgeable posters, even though the average guy never changes his mind after a reputation is made (ZBo the chucker, Dirk a bad defender for example),

How could i blame you for that.

Hawkeye15
01-05-2012, 02:55 PM
See, dumb posts like these are what annoys us. Amare never cared about sharing but was the guy who recruited Carmelo to join this team.

Again, have you ever watched a SINGLE stretch of Knick games? Because, I do not appreciate talking with no real knowledge of what you are saying.

Melo has done his job on defense. EVERY SINGLE GAME. He's been passing at a high level, he's been finding teammates, he's been averaging 5-6 assists when our offense shoots a high percentage.

Melo never cared about defense, yet the Nuggets ranked Top 15 in defense during their 50 win seasons. Makes perfect sense.

Amare has never been put in a defensive team. He needs someone that tells him where to be and where to go that is called DIRECTION.

They care to play defense, It's about directing, leading, teaching and making it simple.

The Knicks switched on defense every single position last night per orders of Woodson, D'antoni. Is that the players fault? Is it Amare's fault that he has to guard DJ Augustin on certain possessions because Toney Douglas looks lost?

Again, It's just moronic to make statements without watching, knowing, speaking to fans who watch this team day in and day out. Outsider's opinion or not.

As I said, you can deny it all you like dude. Which you are doing here.

Why would I ask a fan whose opinion I could care less about to tell me about a team or player I watch enough to make my own evaluation by the way? That doesn't make any sense.

I think its a waste of time debating with you on the Knicks. You are obviously being overly homer here, and taking an attitude. I don't feel the need to continue this. But when your Knicks are the 6-7th seed, I will be interested to hear what your excuses are at that point.

I never understand why fans can't just accept what kind of team they choose to follow, and why they set themselves up for disappointment constantly.

lilojmayo
01-05-2012, 02:56 PM
Trading Landry Fields for OJ Mayo would a step in the right direction.

Carmelo needs help, dude is on his own carrying that team

Geargo Wallace
01-05-2012, 02:57 PM
Tony Douglas sucks.
Chandler is very overrated.
Stoudemire is pretty overrated.
Anthony is a little overrated.

rhymeratic
01-05-2012, 02:58 PM
It's very simple:

1 SELFISH Offensive Player - Melo
2 PF pretending to be a SF because he never developed a post game - Stat
3 Coach that doesn't coach - D'Antoni
4 LIMITED players on the bench
5. NO PG

That's it in a nutshell.

Kashmir13579
01-05-2012, 03:00 PM
As I said, you can deny it all you like dude. Which you are doing here.

Why would I ask a fan whose opinion I could care less about to tell me about a team or player I watch enough to make my own evaluation by the way? That doesn't make any sense.

I think its a waste of time debating with you on the Knicks. You are obviously being overly homer here, and taking an attitude. I don't feel the need to continue this. But when your Knicks are the 6-7th seed, I will be interested to hear what your excuses are at that point.

I never understand why fans can't just accept what kind of team they choose to follow, and why they set themselves up for disappointment constantly.
Right on, dude. You have been more than fair and credible in your assessment - and are probably one of the only posters in this thread i can say that about.

Punk
01-05-2012, 03:04 PM
As I said, you can deny it all you like dude. Which you are doing here.


Denying what? Sorry but I didn't see anyone talking when we played defense against Boston. Didn't see anyone complaining when we defended Golden State pretty well. In all of our losses so far, It's been offensive related. Last night was the first defensive related loss.

I could careless what our seeding is when the season just started. I'm not being a homer, I am telling what goes on a day to day basis. If you had a clue about anything related to our team from Training Camp til now, you will see the exact samething.

Carmelo can't share the ball...Okay but he had 5 rebounds, 5 to 6 assists in every win this season. He's made our teammates better when the ball is in his hands.

Don't tell me what our team is, if you aren't watching it. I don't make judgments like that with anyone else either. It's not being defensive, It's being logical.

Kashmir13579
01-05-2012, 03:12 PM
Denying what? Sorry but I didn't see anyone talking when we played defense against Boston. Didn't see anyone complaining when we defended Golden State pretty well. In all of our losses so far, It's been offensive related. Last night was the first defensive related loss.

I could careless what our seeding is when the season just started. I'm not being a homer, I am telling what goes on a day to day basis. If you had a clue about anything related to our team from Training Camp til now, you will see the exact samething.

Carmelo can't share the ball...Okay but he had 5 rebounds, 5 to 6 assists in every win this season. He's made our teammates better when the ball is in his hands.

Don't tell me what our team is, if you aren't watching it. I don't make judgments like that with anyone else either. It's not being defensive, It's being logical.

Being illogical is calling out one of PSDs basketball gurus, one of the best posters on this site, making accusations that he hasn't been watching. He said he's been watching, you should believe him and move on.

Your anecdotal statements like,
Didn't see anyone complaining when we defended Golden State pretty well are straying away from the big picture, and the simplicity of what the numbers show us. Statements like that are irrelevant.

You're also getting on his case about 'Melo, who he JUST said he was impressed with, but it has only been 6 games. What is your malfunction?

GiantsSwaGG
01-05-2012, 03:43 PM
Poor coaching, they don't need an offense coach, they need a defensive-minded coach who can hold his players responsible.

I want that girl in your sig NOW!

SportsFanatic10
01-05-2012, 04:08 PM
I want that girl in your sig NOW!

haha i'll 2nd that!

2-ONE-5
01-05-2012, 04:13 PM
OVERRATED! :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

ManningToTyree
01-05-2012, 04:15 PM
Its early and our starting PG has not played yet


And Pringles is a ****** coach

knicks=love
01-05-2012, 05:48 PM
It's D'Antoni. This team can't win with an offensive minded coach. We can score, we just can't defend at all. These last two games are a major sign. There's no reason to lose to the raptors and bobcats at home. No reason at all.

Dolfan305
01-05-2012, 05:50 PM
Nothing is wrong with them, this is who they are and some people were expecting too much

nyKnicks126
01-05-2012, 05:55 PM
D'Antoni sucks.. plus Melo and A'mare won't work but other Knicks "fans" don't seem to grasp that.

nyKnicks126
01-05-2012, 05:56 PM
Knicks need to get a deeper squad, that is also an issue that needs to be resolved.

IBleedPurple
01-05-2012, 06:16 PM
Nothing is wrong with them, this is who they are and some people were expecting too much

Pretty much. With D'Antoni as coach, and only 3 solid players, this is what I expected.

Melo is a stud, but selfish. Amare is solid, but overrated by most. And Chandler is solid as well, but not necessarily an impact player.

They need depth and more quality role players IMO

THE GIPPER
01-05-2012, 06:33 PM
A coach like dwayne casey would help them a lot. Bottom line: they dont play any D.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-05-2012, 06:40 PM
they have 2 overrated superstars who are playing zero defense.

idk why they horribly overpayed for chandler...yikes

Kashmir13579
01-05-2012, 06:46 PM
they have 2 overrated superstars who are playing zero defense.

idk why they horribly overpayed for chandler...yikes

- If 'Melo is overrated, that makes Kobe the most overrated player in NBA history.

- 'Melo has been playing great D, Amar'e not so much.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-05-2012, 06:48 PM
- If 'Melo is overrated, that makes Kobe the most overrated player in NBA history.

- 'Melo has been playing great D, Amar'e not so much.

I'm not bashing them, it is as it is...and this season will prove it.

Kashmir13579
01-05-2012, 06:58 PM
I'm not bashing them, it is as it is...and this season will prove it.
I don't need anyone else to bash them, i bash them enough.
and you're right, it "is as it is". Just not how you say it is.

Spartanfitness
01-05-2012, 07:07 PM
Here it is plain and simple:
1) Plays are designed on offense mostly on timing - a player cuts one way, moves off a screen another way, etc. A lot depends on anticipation and timing. You need to play alongside your teammates for a good while to learn tendencies, when a player will cut, how they will cut, etc. That being said, they are SORELY lacking in the play-making/point guard position.

2) This team absolutely CANNOT PLAY MAN-TO-MAN defense. They are not good enough as a team, they do not understand what needs to be done and when it needs to be done when they are screened off, etc. There are too many variables and "little things" that need to be done on defense in order to be a successful Man-to-Man defensive Team.

They have to learn that with the current rules and the current roster configuration, they should focus on various zone schemes, and simplify each position's responsibilities when it comes to playing zone defense. That is the only way they are going to thrive playing any kind of defense.

3) Because of the roster configuration, the coaches should consider deploying different units at different points during the game, and even should consider various starting line-ups based on match-ups, not who is earning what, etc. They should not necessarily start Amare, Melo, and Chandler every game, each game.

From what I have seen so far this year, unless they get consist flow starting from the point guard or play-making slot, and unless they familiarize themselves with each others' tendencies both offensively and defensively, this season might be a long, unproductive one.

My expectation is that in about 15 or so games, they will get much better acquainted and get on a sizable, productive run. Until then, let's not be in a rush to call D00M and the end to the season.

redhorse
01-05-2012, 07:08 PM
too erratic on defense and on offense. Example like yesterday toney douglas was playing press defense on the PG , but was getting beat the whole freaking time forcing the ppl behind him to play off their man and leaving them with open shots. U have to be smarter than that. I was screaming at the tv to play zone earlier. I know they played at the end and they made shots , but look at the shots the bobcats had to take even though it went in those were difficult shots. I think that at least for yesterday playing zone would of been helpful.

As for the offense too much one on one almost identical to what bothered miami earlier last year. Like walt clyde frazier kept saying u need to have continuity on the offense end. Everybody just watching carmelo and amare and both of them trying to do too much.

I honestly dont like the idea of Melo bringing up the ball. He is not lebron. Carmelo needs to be fed in the post and be your weapon there. When he brings up the ball he tends to stay in the 3 point area and take too many shots where he is more effective down low.

its still early no pre season they still are gelling , but I dont like what I am seeing so far.

Tony_Starks
01-05-2012, 07:30 PM
There two best players are ballstoppers who don't rebound or defend. Offense consist of Melo and STAT taking turns going one on one. Defense consist of Chandler trying to cover up for everyones blown assignments and staying in foul trouble. Bibby is horrible. Douglas is questionable. Shumpert is a actual player but not enough.

There's really too many things to diagnose but Im sure the eventual firing of D'Antoni will be good enough for a 10 game boost in the win column. Still a playoff one and done though......

sb123
01-05-2012, 08:06 PM
When people say Melo don't rebound I wonder if folks actually watch games.

BronxBomber300
01-05-2012, 08:19 PM
Tyson Chandler was a nice addition in the offseason to anchor the middle, but I believe D'antoni is not the right guy to coach this team.

knicks4life33
01-05-2012, 08:23 PM
they need a new coack and they need a pg and we lack depth and havent had enough time together to build chemistry and thats the main issue

goNYgoNYgo
01-05-2012, 08:23 PM
need a pg like ali lohan needs 2 lbs

Tony_Starks
01-05-2012, 08:28 PM
they need a new coack and they need a pg and we lack depth and havent had enough time together to build chemistry and thats the main issue



They'd have acutally been better off keeping Chauncey then getting Chandler. Chauncey and Shumpert in the backcourt would've been nice. Chandler was in the perfect storm in Dallas playing with defensive wings and a coach that preached defense. Him with D'Antoni is a waste of time and money.....

Chrisstyles
01-05-2012, 09:22 PM
The problems the knicks have are the PG play, Amare right now, and lack of depth.

The team is built with players that all depend on a PG to penetrate and kick or a PG who can pick and roll. (Besides Carmelo) And right now Toney Douglas is the worst PG at those categories in the NBA.

If Baron comes back at least as the Baron who played on the Cavs that will change a lot plus hes a leader who can get Amare and Carmelo's respect.

Amare is the worst defender I have ever seen play in the NBA. People dont understand fully how bad he really is defensively. For example, if Tyson Chandler can cover Eddy Curry's mistakes on the Bulls and cant cover Amare's there is a serious problem. They almost need to trade Amare now because he is the reason the Knicks arent in the top 5-10 defensively

Last but not least DEPTH. Fields is a back up three not a two guard and Toney is a two guard in a PG's height.I said we should have gotten Keith Bogans instead of Lin(i mean what was that all about). Our bench is full of overachievers in Mike D'Antoni's system and now they arent overachieving anymore. We need scorers and people to threaten the defense. How many teams in the NBA can say they no guards who can seriously threaten a defense

Hawkeye15
01-05-2012, 09:26 PM
Spartafitness makes a good point. The Knicks may want to try and use some floating zone with Chandler in the middle, teams are pulling him away from the rim as often as possible. It would leave their guys in better spots to close, and there wouldn't be such easy penetration.

Just a thought.

xxplayerxx23
01-05-2012, 09:30 PM
Its way to early for this. Look at how miami played early on. Knicks are a good team. will be a dangours team in the playoffs. Give it time. Chemstry issues, coach issues, Plenty of time left in the season. Need to play better defense!!. Davis will help strengthens are bench puts TD on the bench. No need to panic yet

NYKSpiritBomb
01-05-2012, 09:36 PM
diagnosis.....THEY STINK!!!!!

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-05-2012, 09:39 PM
Its way to early for this. Look at how miami played early on. Knicks are a good team. will be a dangours team in the playoffs. Give it time. Chemstry issues, coach issues, Plenty of time left in the season. Need to play better defense!!. Davis will help strengthens are bench puts TD on the bench. No need to panic yet

Havent amare and melo played enough together?

xxplayerxx23
01-05-2012, 09:45 PM
Havent amare and melo played enough together?

Melo and amare played what 23 games together? they have new ppl on the team it takes time. They will be fine by mid season

IDunknown
01-05-2012, 09:45 PM
The offense is based on pick and rolls,but right now there is no point guard to run the pick and roll.Toney Douglas is starting at point,but he is really a small shooting guard.

NYsFinest
01-05-2012, 09:54 PM
Knicks got a fever, and the only prescription is....



MORE SHUMPERT!!!

Tony_Starks
01-05-2012, 10:01 PM
A lot of people are seriously putting too much faith in Baron Davis and more importantly his health. You guys must have missed his entire stint with the Clippers. He will come in and contribute and by default he's an upgrade over Douglas but please don't think he will be the cure all. That was the Golden State Warriors BD, let's be realistic.

Now Shumpert on the other hand is up there with Norris Cole as the surprise of the draft.......

jam
01-05-2012, 10:27 PM
When a coach can't win with 2 of the top 15 players in the league and a top ranked defensive role player who's also a 7 footer just coming off a key role on a championship squad, your job is at risk.

Fortunately for D'Antoni, neither management nor ownership know a lick about basketball nor do they care. As long as every seat in MSG remains filled, they'd gladly re-hire a monkey in a jumpsuit to coach this team.

ohreally
01-05-2012, 10:32 PM
The Kicks have two guys that demand playing time and shots and one of them plays defense poorly and the other doesn't even know what defense is. The trouble is they are two thirds of the front court. Toney Douglas should be, at best, the fourth guard on a team that flirts with .500. The best part of Fields' game are totally lost when flow is stagnant, as it is when your two scorers dominate the ball and take half of your shots. The team is paper thin. Does Baron Davis change this? I don't think so. It wouldn't take much to be an improvement in distributing over TD, but he won't improve defense. Shumpert looks very good, but if anything about this team is too early to adequately judge, it's Iman.

I don't see any great reason for optimism with this team, but I do expect that they will improve from their 13 seed in the East. Hard to see the team having any better seeding over last year though.

Then again, I am one who has always thought that what we had when Isiah left, as long as the plan was to continue building a team rather than tearing it down, would have made for a better team and a team I would prefer to watch.

2-ONE-5
01-05-2012, 10:40 PM
Denying what? Sorry but I didn't see anyone talking when we played defense against Boston. Didn't see anyone complaining when we defended Golden State pretty well. In all of our losses so far, It's been offensive related. Last night was the first defensive related loss.
.

LOL:facepalm: Didnt the Knicks blow a 17 point lead at home while the C's were without Pierce and Green? Everyone saw them let up 117 at Home to the Bobcats, the Bobcatgs who are one of the worst teams in the NBA.

OVERRRATED:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

blastmasta26
01-05-2012, 11:07 PM
A lot of people are seriously putting too much faith in Baron Davis and more importantly his health. You guys must have missed his entire stint with the Clippers. He will come in and contribute and by default he's an upgrade over Douglas but please don't think he will be the cure all. That was the Golden State Warriors BD, let's be realistic.

Now Shumpert on the other hand is up there with Norris Cole as the surprise of the draft.......
I don't expect Baron to be a savior, just a good enough passer to feed Amare and Chandler the ball in good position.

soonabooma
01-06-2012, 01:01 AM
Primadonna players and no emphasis on defense, meaning poor coaching. The only guy on that team with any toughness at all is Chandler, but he can't do it all. He's a defensive minded player, he blocks shots and rebounds. He can't carry the entire team, and he shouldn't haved to, all he can do is go out and do his job as good as he can. Their superstars are PRIMADONNAS, and everybody knows it. That team is going nowhere.

HeaTxRipZz
01-06-2012, 02:44 AM
The problem is far from Carmelo. It's the lack of depth on the bench and at the guard positions. A PG is someone who is supposed to run the offense and set guys up properly. Douglas doesn't do that and doesn't know how to do that. I've been saying this since the off season that we will struggle without a legit PG.

The next problem is D'antoni's System. I personally feel Amare and Carmelo can be a great tandem BUT not in this system. This system is tailor made for a PG who can pass well and a PF who has a decent mid range jumper/great slashing abilities. Watching these games have been a headache because Carmelo is adding to his game and contributing more defense and more passing but like I said with a D'Antoni system you are set up to fail without a legit PG running the show.

Everyone keeps bringing up the lack of ball movement but you guys also have to remember the type of players that are on this team and without a capable PG to run the show correctly. Hawkeye was spot on with his assesment. This team will be a disappointment to NY fans until they fix the guard issues and build depth on the bench. Baron Davis will help but they will still need much more. We don't even have a consistent scoring punch coming off of the bench or a legit sixth man to lead that second unit. Outside of Melo, Amare, Chandler and BDiddy(When he returns) who will be the Jason Terry or The Lamar Odom of the team?

Cal827
01-06-2012, 04:37 AM
It's just plain fun to blame Carmelo.

DitchDat
01-06-2012, 07:42 AM
2 things particularly:

- the loss of Chauncey Billups. Don't underestimate this. Chauncey is the type of point guard who maximizes players like Melo and Ama're. They have now reverted back to their ways. They're good players, but that team lacks heady leadership now.

- the addition of Tyson Chandler. In the right situation, he's a niche center (defense and blocks), but he can't be one-third of a "Big Three". He's a nice player to have, but IMO the Knicks really thought the move would put them over the top. They should have just waited for a point guard la D-Will to complete the formation of the Knicks' big three. The addition of Chandler doesn't put them over the top at all.

Tom Stone
01-06-2012, 08:31 AM
The system doesn't fit the players.......A better defenceive system is needed to shore up there weekness.....

Jarvo
01-06-2012, 08:54 AM
DEFENSE!, No bench, & Need a defensive coach. Its still early and I know they will make the playoffs but won't get maybe.

GrumpyOldMan
01-06-2012, 09:04 AM
I have only seen one Knick game this season, so I'm not exactly sure about the others, but when they lost at home to my Raptors they put up way, way too many 3 pointers. It seemed their entire offence was designed around the 3 that night. They didn't have Amare that game, but he surely can't be the only interior scorer on the team...or is he?

MTL_123
01-06-2012, 09:10 AM
its because their two best players wont play any defence. TC cant play d on everyone on the other team.

MCSJR2
01-06-2012, 09:23 AM
they take and miss too many bad shots and illadvised 3's which leads to easy fastbreak points for the other teams...they don't play good man to man defense and get beat too often when they switch off the screens...they don't run any offensive sets and instead give the ball to amare or melo and clear out the way...both of them shoot terrible percentages in the first half and spend the rest of the game playing catch up...you can also tell this team is having a tough time to adjust to playing together...amare should be more of a presence on the boards...Fields needs to get more aggressive all together...TD is actually playing well...Chandler and Melo should run the pick and roll more..need to get Davis back and see what he can do with this group

Jarvo
01-06-2012, 09:25 AM
7)mavs started 0-4, celtics 0-3...y are the knicks being looked at under a microscope?

Because the media and the hype, Plus they signed Chandler. I mean it's New York and everyone so pumped & hype for them to be good after all the years they were so damn bad and I guess people didnt expect to see them play this way at the start.

P.s. Amare did say they coming for the heat.

Prince21
01-06-2012, 09:27 AM
With all this being said, the knicks will still be able to make a playoff run this year. Beyond the first round.

Quote me on this.


Its frustrating to watch. Looking at the product on the court we expect better play. The Heat started 8-9 last year if im not mistaken, i think, i hope well turn out to be ok. It only takes one game and we can take off. PATIENCE BANDWAGONERS RELAX.

Quietmoney
01-06-2012, 10:11 AM
I expect the stupid opinions from other posters that are not knick fans, but why do we even come in this forum and make threads. All you get is hate in here and jokes on our team. Allow me to out it like this... For all these opinions in here and bashing on other teams, only one team can win the chip. You try and put yourself in the best position and go from there. The knicks for the last couple of years have been trying to do that. Last year they did whatever they could to bring Melo in here which was the right move. Everyone talking about how we have up too much to get him, what a bunch of bull. Where did they go with all those great players they got from us? Chicago bulls fans talking smack because they won sixty games and technically had the best defense, but last time I check they lost in five games to the heat with the MVP of the league on their team. Let everyone else tell it, the Chicago bulls were champs before they played one game in the NBA finals. But everyone had the answers on here... Dallas was the underdog in the NBA finals and was said to be heavily out matched, how in the hell did they win in six? You may have all the answers now, but how many really had the Mavs to win?? Some of you posters make me sick to my stomach!

Evolution23
01-06-2012, 07:06 PM
I have to be blunt with the fools in this thread. You can't judge a team based on the first 6 games. Remember what happened when the Knicks started off 3-8 last season? Eveyr one was hating once again talking about Amare being good because of Nash. Lets get to the half way point before we can judge a newly formed team.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-06-2012, 07:08 PM
I have to be blunt with the fools in this thread. You can't judge a team based on the first 6 games. Remember what happened when the Knicks started off 3-8 last season? Eveyr one was hating once again talking about Amare being good because of Nash. Lets get to the half way point before we can judge a newly formed team.

Amare has played with melo a lot more than 6 games.

justinnum1
01-06-2012, 07:16 PM
amare and melo just are bad fit, both are score first, type players and they dont commit on the defensive end. Plus they have no PG

Evolution23
01-06-2012, 07:20 PM
Its frustrating to watch. Looking at the product on the court we expect better play. The Heat started 8-9 last year if im not mistaken, i think, i hope well turn out to be ok. It only takes one game and we can take off. PATIENCE BANDWAGONERS RELAX.

Yea the Heat got it bad from the media and from ignorant people early on in the season. There were talks about, "did Lebron mess up by going to Miami?," "Are the Heat a balanced team?," "Can these 3 ever mesh together?" There is no way the talent level the Knicks have can fail them as badly as people predict. They are a top 4 team in the East.

Evolution23
01-06-2012, 07:23 PM
Amare has played with melo a lot more than 6 games.

Right but knicks just lost Billups and added Chandler. Plus they have a new Douglas starting at the point, who is playing out of position. You think are gonna click over night?

Evolution23
01-06-2012, 07:23 PM
amare and melo just are bad fit, both are score first, type players and they dont commit on the defensive end. Plus they have no PG

Didn't they say the same thing about Bron and Wade not fitting together because they both dominate the ball?

justinnum1
01-06-2012, 07:27 PM
Didn't they say the same thing about Bron and Wade not fitting together because they both dominate the ball?

But both are also great play makers...they get a lot of assists, they look to make there teamates better...cant be said about amare, melo tries, but doesnt have near the court vision lebron does.

Evolution23
01-06-2012, 07:33 PM
But both are also great play makers...they get a lot of assists, they look to make there teamates better...cant be said about amare, melo tries, but doesnt have near the court vision lebron does.

Well Amare is a power forward. It's not his responsibility to make others better. Lebron is a special player that makes any team into a contender. Melo is a underrated passer just like Wade. My point is you need time and patience before you can judge a newly formed team accurately. Based on talent alone I had the Heat winning it all the 2nd year they formed, not first because I knew they needed to get their chemistry right. So to sum up my point in one word; PATIENCE.

justinnum1
01-06-2012, 07:35 PM
Well Amare is a power forward. It's not his responsibility to make others better. Lebron is a special player that makes any team into a contender. Melo is a underrated passer just like Wade. My point is you need time and patience before you can judge a newly formed team accurately. Based on talent alone I had the Heat winning it all the 2nd year they formed, not first because I knew they needed to get their chemistry right. So to sum up my point in one word; PATIENCE.

Agreed, next season, when the knicks can fill in their cast, it should be interesting.

effen5
01-07-2012, 02:30 PM
Knicks should fire Dantoni and hire Avery Johnson.

strahan92osi72
01-07-2012, 02:38 PM
Knicks should fire Dantoni and hire Phil Jackson.

Fixed.

thekmp211
01-07-2012, 02:47 PM
d'antoni has to go. you don't have a real point guard right now. run the offense through melo, but a real offense, not a "let melo get 20 iso plays a game" offense. anthony is talented enough. i honestly don't think woodson, chandler or anyone else will have an effect on the defense until d'antoni goes.

Wade>You
01-07-2012, 02:50 PM
I think the biggest thing with the Knicks is that Chandler and Amare were supposed to be a twin towers of sorts defensively. If Amare can ever do that -- watchout!

HOZ THE KNICK
01-07-2012, 02:52 PM
knicks problems is not a secret.

1 fire dantoni offer the farm to phil jackson
2 davis comes back 100%, we will compete with any team in the league on a night to night basis

phoenix_bladen
01-07-2012, 02:53 PM
guys we have a knicks forum to use

stop posting here since there are so many knick haters in the NBA general forum.

oak2455
01-07-2012, 02:55 PM
Agreed, next season, when the knicks can fill in their cast, it should be interesting.

Baron could, will make a difference and if KMart comes... could be pretty interesting:eyebrow: Plus Douglas going back to the bench will be huge!!

oak2455
01-07-2012, 02:55 PM
knicks problems is not a secret.

1 fire dantoni offer the farm to phil jackson
2 davis comes back 100%, we will compete with any team in the league on a night to night basis

what he said:D

HOZ THE KNICK
01-07-2012, 02:58 PM
But both are also great play makers...they get a lot of assists, they look to make there teamates better...cant be said about amare, melo tries, but doesnt have near the court vision lebron does.

you can say what you like about the knicks but i bet this season the knicks is a team nobody would like to see in the playoffs you know why? you don't know what you are going to get but i bet it won't be a easy out for some reason the knicks really get up for heat games i just wish they get up for everybody else.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-07-2012, 03:11 PM
Fixed.

lmao second time I see knicks fans talking about PJ coaching again.

Will never happen, get over it.

HOZ THE KNICK
01-07-2012, 03:13 PM
lmao second time I see knicks fans talking about PJ coaching again.

Will never happen, get over it.

i notice you is a knicks hater but what's your angle?

sjbirds
01-07-2012, 03:41 PM
i saw a stat the other day that seems crazy... den has a better record since they got rid of melo then when they had him and nyk has a worse record since they got him... what do you think the reasoning for this is?

JEDean89
01-07-2012, 03:48 PM
this team has phil jackson written all over it.
gasol and bynum can be tyson and amare, shumps and melo can distribute from the wings and baron and douglas can 3 and D. add k-mart to the mix and we are a true contender.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-07-2012, 03:54 PM
i notice you is a knicks hater but what's your angle?

He has 2 hip replacement surgerys behind him, and he always complained about traveling long distances between the games.

The point is his body cant handle the pressure anymore.