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View Full Version : Does Dwyane Wade Have a Shot at Top 10 Player of All Time?



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MFFL==FML
01-03-2012, 03:40 PM
Vote, and explain your answer.

Hellcrooner
01-03-2012, 03:42 PM
Lol.
Thats the answer.

HarrisonBarnes
01-03-2012, 03:49 PM
Paul George grew 2 inches and is now 6'10

rapjuicer06
01-03-2012, 04:03 PM
I agree with LoL...and it being the answer

lavilevi23
01-03-2012, 04:15 PM
Yes. After a few more championships and maybe one MVP award.

Chacarron
01-03-2012, 04:21 PM
I'm going to say no.

heyman321
01-03-2012, 04:21 PM
Yeah if he opens a succesful pretzel franchise.

Big Zo
01-03-2012, 04:23 PM
Anyone that can have a career highlight vid like this deserves some consideration:

http://http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=pPVzvf3nPxQ

CostanzaNumba0
01-03-2012, 04:26 PM
Not a chance on earth, with all the mileage hes put on that body i dont see him playing well into his 30's like some of the greats did. Top 10? Top 50-maybe. Look at this list and tell me who he could even remotely unseat. MJ, West, Bird, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Oscar, Robinson, Duncan, Mikan, Shaq, Hakeem.. He is 121st all time in career win share and not even in the top 100 in single season w/s. Garnett has had a better career, so has stockton, so has Dirk and its not even really close. Wade isn't even Walt Frazier. There are a ton of guys ahead of him.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_season.html

Hellcrooner
01-03-2012, 04:26 PM
Who you take out from this list of top 10 candidates to make room for him?

Mikan / Russell / Wilt / West / Oscar Robertson /Dr J / Kareem / Moses Malone / Magic / Bird / Michael Jordan /Hakeem /Shaq / Duncan / Kobe

Now think that i have omited some names that some people could argue as top 10 candidates too .

So , the answer is still Lol.

Sinestro
01-03-2012, 04:31 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eal4fep7pK4

Nuff Said

ChicagoJ
01-03-2012, 04:33 PM
Not top 10. He may be top 50 and that is a great accomplishment.

NYKalltheway
01-03-2012, 04:33 PM
No, but he's unlucky because he's not quite far off Kobe's level yet he won't get as recognized. And to go further Kobe, as a basketball player, is not a Top 10 level player. As a brand name though, yeah he is.

mightybosstone
01-03-2012, 04:35 PM
I like Wade's game and I think he's probably already top 50 with top 20-25 potential, but there's no way in hell he cracks the top 10 playing Robin to Lebron's Batman. Look at the greatest No. 2s of all time and they don't crack the top 10. Pippen, McHale, arguably Havlicek... these guys were all incredible No. 2s (and occasionally No. 1s) on championship teams, but I think that "Robin" mentality keeps them from being considered in the top 10.

There are only a few situations where No. 2s have arguably cracked the top 10... Magic/Kareem and West/Wilt. But I think that "big vs. wing" argument keeps any of those guys from being considered No. 2s. You could also argue Shaq/Kobe if you think they're both top 10, even though Kobe was clearly a No. 2 to Shaq in those early 2000 Lakers teams.

But the fact that Lebron and Wade play similar roles offensively and defensively and that Lebron is clearly the better overall player of the two will keep Wade from ever having a legit shot at cracking that list. The only way it could happen is if the Heat win an insane amount of rings (four or five at least).

Hellcrooner
01-03-2012, 04:37 PM
I like Wade's game and I think he's probably already top 50 with top 20-25 potential, but there's no way in hell he cracks the top 10 playing Robin to Lebron's Batman. Look at the greatest No. 2s of all time and they don't crack the top 10. Pippen, McHale, arguably Havlicek... these guys were all incredible No. 2s (and occasionally No. 1s) on championship teams, but I think that "Robin" mentality keeps them from being considered in the top 10.

There are only a few situations where No. 2s have arguably cracked the top 10... Magic/Kareem and West/Wilt. But I think that "big vs. wing" argument keeps any of those guys from being considered No. 2s. You could also argue Shaq/Kobe if you think they're both top 10, even though Kobe was clearly a No. 2 to Shaq in those early 2000 Lakers teams.

But the fact that Lebron and Wade play similar roles offensively and defensively and that Lebron is clearly the better overall player of the two will keep Wade from ever having a legit shot at cracking that list. The only way it could happen is if the Heat win an insane amount of rings (four or five at least).

well to be honest he won a ring as the go to guy already so we would be talking that territory of dudes that won both as leader and as leutenant

havlicek adn russell, Robertson and lew alcindor :p , kareem and magic , robinson and duncan, shaq and kobe.

lavilevi23
01-03-2012, 04:39 PM
for those saying "maybe top 50", he's probably already top 30.

Sadds The Gr8
01-03-2012, 04:39 PM
Lol.
Thats the answer.

this.

CostanzaNumba0
01-03-2012, 04:41 PM
Who you take out from this list of top 10 candidates to make room for him?

Mikan / Russell / Wilt / West / Oscar Robertson /Dr J / Kareem / Moses Malone / Magic / Bird / Michael Jordan /Hakeem /Shaq / Duncan / Kobe

Now think that i have omited some names that some people could argue as top 10 candidates too .

So , the answer is still Lol.

If ur putting Hakeem and moses on that list you have to have david robinson, most underrated center of all time

GhostfaceDrilla
01-03-2012, 04:41 PM
Hell no lol. He'll be top 30.

Players that are ahead of Wade that play today that Wade will not pass

Duncan (Top 10)
Kobe (Top 10)
Dirk (Top 20)
Garnett (Top 20)

NYKalltheway
01-03-2012, 04:41 PM
There are only a few situations where No. 2s have arguably cracked the top 10... Magic/Kareem and West/Wilt. But I think that "big vs. wing" argument keeps any of those guys from being considered No. 2s. You could also argue Shaq/Kobe if you think they're both top 10, even though Kobe was clearly a No. 2 to Shaq in those early 2000 Lakers teams.


I think only the current generation talks about "#1" and "#2" etc... History remembers winners. The first Boston Celtics team has always been remembered as a great TEAM, not Bill Russell's team. Bill Russell happened to be the most influential player, not necessarily the better one.

If the NBA goes back to its usual self, that's around the late 80s where it was left, then history will remember teams and not individuals. Why do you think most of the "stars" are late 80s and early 90s top players? Change of mentality mostly ;)

Hellcrooner
01-03-2012, 04:44 PM
If ur putting Hakeem and moses on that list you have to have david robinson, most underrated center of all time

Thats why i said that there are other candidates people woudl consider.

In my case robinson is not underated but the opposed overated, i would not place him over people like Artis Gilmore, willis reed, dave cowens or Nate Thurmond but most people would.

mightybosstone
01-03-2012, 04:44 PM
Who you take out from this list of top 10 candidates to make room for him?

Mikan / Russell / Wilt / West / Oscar Robertson /Dr J / Kareem / Moses Malone / Magic / Bird / Michael Jordan /Hakeem /Shaq / Duncan / Kobe

Now think that i have omited some names that some people could argue as top 10 candidates too .

So , the answer is still Lol.

Mikan certainly does not belong anywhere near that list, IMO. The other guys are all certainly worth of the discussion, depending on where you stand on Kobe and Dr. J. My personal top 10 has changed a million times, but I normally land somewhere around this:

1. MJ
2. Magic
3. Russell
4. Kareem
5. Bird
6. Hakeem
7. Wilt
8. Duncan
9. Shaq
10. Kobe
11. West
12. Malone
13. Oscar
14. Dr. J
15. Havlicek

Big Zo
01-03-2012, 04:44 PM
I like Wade's game and I think he's probably already top 50 with top 20-25 potential, but there's no way in hell he cracks the top 10 playing Robin to Lebron's Batman. Look at the greatest No. 2s of all time and they don't crack the top 10. Pippen, McHale, arguably Havlicek... these guys were all incredible No. 2s (and occasionally No. 1s) on championship teams, but I think that "Robin" mentality keeps them from being considered in the top 10.

There are only a few situations where No. 2s have arguably cracked the top 10... Magic/Kareem and West/Wilt. But I think that "big vs. wing" argument keeps any of those guys from being considered No. 2s. You could also argue Shaq/Kobe if you think they're both top 10, even though Kobe was clearly a No. 2 to Shaq in those early 2000 Lakers teams.

But the fact that Lebron and Wade play similar roles offensively and defensively and that Lebron is clearly the better overall player of the two will keep Wade from ever having a legit shot at cracking that list. The only way it could happen is if the Heat win an insane amount of rings (four or five at least).

Dwyane Wade is no Robin. He's already won a championship as the #1 option, and the ball is still usually in his hand in crunch time.

CostanzaNumba0
01-03-2012, 04:45 PM
for those saying "maybe top 50", he's probably already top 30.

No, not even close really
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career.html

lavilevi23
01-03-2012, 04:45 PM
Hell no lol. He'll be top 30.

Players that are ahead of Wade that play today that Wade will not pass

Duncan (Top 10)
Kobe (Top 10)
Dirk (Top 20)
Garnett (Top 20)

With 2 more championships and perhaps one MVP or DPOY award he will pass both.

MonroeFAN
01-03-2012, 04:45 PM
lol.
Thats the answer.

+1

OptiMized
01-03-2012, 04:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eal4fep7pK4

Nuff Said
thats was frickin' hilarious.

and no.

Big Zo
01-03-2012, 04:49 PM
Hell no lol. He'll be top 30.

Players that are ahead of Wade that play today that Wade will not pass

Duncan (Top 10)
Kobe (Top 10)
Dirk (Top 20)
Garnett (Top 20)

Wade is better than Dirk and KG...

Hellcrooner
01-03-2012, 04:50 PM
Mikan certainly does not belong anywhere near that list, IMO. The other guys are all certainly worth of the discussion, depending on where you stand on Kobe and Dr. J. My personal top 10 has changed a million times, but I normally land somewhere around this:

1. MJ
2. Magic
3. Russell
4. Kareem
5. Bird
6. Hakeem
7. Wilt
8. Duncan
9. Shaq
10. Kobe
11. West
12. Malone
13. Oscar
14. Dr. J
15. Havlicek

With mikan you ahve to value his dominance ON HIS ERA.

its unfair to try to apply old players to new parameters, athleticims, more profesinal phisical and mental training, better alimentation growin up, different set of rules etc etc.

He dominated his era much morre than Jordan did His.

I dont really make top 10 lsits because i dont really like comparing different positions.

I preffer positional top 10s, and even then i have authentic headacehs sometimes, do i consider moses malone a C or a pf, Robertson? sg or PG

west? sg or Pg
Pau a center or a Pf ?
and so on and on,

CostanzaNumba0
01-03-2012, 04:50 PM
Thats why i said that there are other candidates people woudl consider.

In my case robinson is not underated but the opposed overated, i would not place him over people like Artis Gilmore, willis reed, dave cowens or Nate Thurmond but most people would.

Gotta Disagree here, Gillmore was an ABA guy and whether u like it or not that has to count against him, but out of the guys u mentioned is prob the best.. Robinson is 11th in w/s of all time and missed several seasons, I also think his greatness was overshadowed by Duncan towards the end of his career which really isnt fair.

CostanzaNumba0
01-03-2012, 04:51 PM
Wade is better than Dirk and KG...

No he's not

GhostfaceDrilla
01-03-2012, 04:52 PM
Wade is better than Dirk and KG...

Today yes. All time no. Winning a ring with LeBron James and Chris Bosh shows nothing of how Wade is an all time great. If you give Wade a cast like Dirk with about 2 or 3 borderline all stars and 5-6 great role players, I'm not convinced he can win a title. Wade is top 30-35 all time and has a chance to become top 25-20. Dirk is already top 20 and Garnett is too, or at least around the 22-21 range.

beliges
01-03-2012, 04:53 PM
MJ, Kareem, Russell, Kobe, Magic, Bird, Wilt, Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem. Wade has pretty much no shot at passing these guys and getting in the top 10. Not a knock on him, but he simply is not a top 10 player.

Chacarron
01-03-2012, 04:53 PM
If ur putting Hakeem and moses on that list you have to have david robinson, most underrated center of all time

David Robinson is not underrated and nowhere near Hakeem's status.

mightybosstone
01-03-2012, 04:54 PM
well to be honest he won a ring as the go to guy already so we would be talking that territory of dudes that won both as leader and as leutenant

havlicek adn russell, Robertson and lew alcindor :p , kareem and magic , robinson and duncan, shaq and kobe.

He won ONE title, which isn't enough on its own to get into the top 10. You need more than just one ring to be in that discussion. You have to do something spectacular in your career (like Wilt and Oscar's crazy stats, West becoming the face of the league, Dr. J changing the way we play and watch basketball, etc.).

As of right now, Wade doesn't even sniff the top 10 without some huge extra accomplishment. If they win a ton of rings or he eventually becomes the dominant statistical player on that franchise or posts some really clutch postseason runs, then he's got a shot. But I really don't see it happening at this point. He's shown to be too injury prone and Lebron will always steal his spotlight...

lavilevi23
01-03-2012, 04:54 PM
Today yes. All time no. Winning a ring with LeBron James and Chris Bosh shows nothing of how Wade is an all time great. If you give Wade a cast like Dirk with about 2 or 3 borderline all stars and 5-6 great role players, I'm not convinced he can win a title. Wade is top 30-35 all time and has a chance to become top 25-20. Dirk is already top 20 and Garnett is too, or at least around the 22-21 range.

He already won a title in 06' with much less than that :facepalm:

Hellcrooner
01-03-2012, 04:55 PM
Gotta Disagree here, Gillmore was an ABA guy and whether u like it or not that has to count against him, but out of the guys u mentioned is prob the best.. Robinson is 11th in w/s of all time and missed several seasons, I also think his greatness was overshadowed by Duncan towards the end of his career which really isnt fair.

gilmore spent more years in the Nba than in Aba, was an allstar in both and kept HORRIBLE chicago teams respectable and in the playoffs.

His stats were very similar in both leagues.

Btw a not so known secret is in its twilight years aba was as much competitive as nba was ( check the all star game participants in the season right after the merger, there are litteraly TONS of "aba" players in it).


I agree tough that people takes aba years accountable against players, out of ignorance.

Thats why Dr J tends to end up underated in people lists.

I recomend you to visit a page called RemembertheAba to get more info and some surprises like the W/L numbers on games where aba teams met nba teams , including the aba champions defeating nba champions several times.

MonroeFAN
01-03-2012, 04:55 PM
^he had the refs & Shaq. Stop calling people idiots.

lavilevi23
01-03-2012, 04:59 PM
^he had the refs & Shaq. Stop calling people idiots.

So you think a 35 year old shaq is better than 2 or 3 borderline allstars? cuze the rest of that team were just average role players or garbage players.
He had the refs? I wont even commet on that.

Ladies Man
01-03-2012, 05:01 PM
No way. People are making cases that not even Kobe is top 10, which I think he is. Wade is good, but lets not forget that so many others are more deserving of being on that list

MonroeFAN
01-03-2012, 05:02 PM
So you think a 35 year old shaq is better than 2 or 3 borderline allstars? cuze the rest of that team were just average role players or garbage players.
He had the refs? I wont even commet on that.

No need to, it's been heavily documented.

Wade is a great player, claiming that he's a top 10 of all time (in general) is kind of a joke. This league has had some amazing players. Also, yeah, a 35 year old Shaq who averaged 18 & 10 on 60% shooting from the field is something Dirk did not have. He was still an incredibly dominant player.

mjt20mik
01-03-2012, 05:02 PM
no.

Geargo Wallace
01-03-2012, 05:04 PM
Nope, but LeBron does.

lavilevi23
01-03-2012, 05:07 PM
No need to, it's been heavily documented.

Wade is a great player, claiming that he's a top 10 of all time (in general) is kind of a joke. This league has had some amazing players. Also, yeah, a 35 year old Shaq who averaged 18 & 10 on 60% shooting from the field is something Dirk did not have. He was still an incredibly dominant player.

I'm not saying he's even near top 10 right now.
Does he have a chance at cracking it? Maybe, with some championships.

mightybosstone
01-03-2012, 05:07 PM
Dwyane Wade is no Robin. He's already won a championship as the #1 option, and the ball is still usually in his hand in crunch time.
So what? That doesn't make him the team's No. 1 scorer or player. Robert Horry hit a ton of clutch shots late in games, that doesn't make him a No. 1 and certainly doesn't quality him for the top 10. If you defer to someone else for 90 percent of a game and then take over for the last 10 percent, you are still the No. 2 90 percent of the time.

Should clutchness be taken into consideration? Of course, but he's got to do some pretty spectacular things in the clutch to crack the top 10 as a No. 2 player.


With mikan you ahve to value his dominance ON HIS ERA.

its unfair to try to apply old players to new parameters, athleticims, more profesinal phisical and mental training, better alimentation growin up, different set of rules etc etc.

He dominated his era much more than Jordan did His.

He played the majority of his career pre-shot clock era when the game was completely different and there were hardly any black players. If you don't take that into consideration, you aren't looking at it objectively.

It's one thing to say a player in the 60s like Russell might not be as dominant in today's game 40 years later with the advances in medicine and increased athleticism. It's another thing to think that Mikan wouldn't be as dominant if he had played only 10 years later against clearly superior competition in a sport that had completely changed (which is the truth).

Comparing Mikan to players in the 60s and later is like comparing football players in the days of the NFL's infancy to players in the 60s and later. Those guys didn't even have legitimate helmets! They wouldn't just not be be able to play in today's league, they would all get seriously injured in the first possession!

MonroeFAN
01-03-2012, 05:08 PM
I'm not saying he's even near top 10 right now.
Does he have a chance at cracking it? Maybe, with some championships.

ok, my mistake.

Sadds The Gr8
01-03-2012, 05:08 PM
Wade is better than Dirk and KG...

all-time? no.

MickeyMgl
01-03-2012, 05:09 PM
In a word, No.

No explanation should be necessary, but it comes down to the simple fact that there are more than ten players he has little to no chance of catching. And that's not to say he would catch the ones he *could* theoretically catch.

MonroeFAN
01-03-2012, 05:10 PM
I would place Wade ahead of KG. Not sure about Dirk.

Big Zo
01-03-2012, 05:10 PM
Today yes. All time no. Winning a ring with LeBron James and Chris Bosh shows nothing of how Wade is an all time great. If you give Wade a cast like Dirk with about 2 or 3 borderline all stars and 5-6 great role players, I'm not convinced he can win a title. Wade is top 30-35 all time and has a chance to become top 25-20. Dirk is already top 20 and Garnett is too, or at least around the 22-21 range.

He's a better scorer than both of them, and a better defender. Wade got a ring in his 3rd year with an aging Shaq, and aging role players that were referred to as "slugs."

The Final Boss
01-03-2012, 05:12 PM
Anyone that can have a career highlight vid like this deserves some consideration:

http://http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=pPVzvf3nPxQ

I can pull up a highlight video of Kwame to aid in supporting your answer. Wade is currently knocking on top 50-60 and that may be generous.

NYKalltheway
01-03-2012, 05:15 PM
Comparing Mikan to players in the 60s and later is like comparing football players in the days of the NFL's infancy to players in the 60s and later. Those guys didn't even have legitimate helmets! They wouldn't just not be be able to play in today's league, they would all get seriously injured in the first possession!

And this is why we're telling you that we are comparing TALENT and not career or era... If you were talented in the 60s, were you born in the 70s or 80s, you'd be even better due to better nutrition, better role models to look up to etc

And helmets? Lol, basketball has nothing to do with nfl man, try another comparison :D

As for Mikan, had he faced a serious 7'2 ft Bob Kurland who decided not to play "pro" basketball and was an "amateur" instead, then probably we'd have an historic duel in the 50s to talk about. Would that change anything though?

CostanzaNumba0
01-03-2012, 05:15 PM
David Robinson is not underrated and nowhere near Hakeem's status.

There are a ton of numbers out there to suggest otherwise

CostanzaNumba0
01-03-2012, 05:17 PM
I would place Wade ahead of KG. Not sure about Dirk.

Well considering that KG is better than Dirk career wise that doesnt make much sense. KG is a top 5 PF of all time

MickeyMgl
01-03-2012, 05:20 PM
No, but he's unlucky because he's not quite far off Kobe's level yet he won't get as recognized. And to go further Kobe, as a basketball player, is not a Top 10 level player.

That's not a totally crazy opinion, but the opinion that Bryant is a top ten player is a valid one. Wade as top ten? That's not even a discussion.

Hellcrooner
01-03-2012, 05:22 PM
And this is why we're telling you that we are comparing TALENT and not career or era... If you were talented in the 60s, were you born in the 70s or 80s, you'd be even better due to better nutrition, better role models to look up to etc

And helmets? Lol, basketball has nothing to do with nfl man, try another comparison :D

As for Mikan, had he faced a serious 7'2 ft Bob Kurland who decided not to play "pro" basketball and was an "amateur" instead, then probably we'd have an historic duel in the 50s to talk about. Would that change anything though?

We would have had a legit rivalry to talk bout with laker vs olympians and mikan vs groza if the later with his friend beard didnt decide to do some stupid gambling ****.

D.O.N.
01-03-2012, 05:28 PM
No! He's awesome, but there are too many all time greats.

Hellcrooner
01-03-2012, 05:28 PM
So what? That doesn't make him the team's No. 1 scorer or player. Robert Horry hit a ton of clutch shots late in games, that doesn't make him a No. 1 and certainly doesn't quality him for the top 10. If you defer to someone else for 90 percent of a game and then take over for the last 10 percent, you are still the No. 2 90 percent of the time.

Should clutchness be taken into consideration? Of course, but he's got to do some pretty spectacular things in the clutch to crack the top 10 as a No. 2 player.



He played the majority of his career pre-shot clock era when the game was completely different and there were hardly any black players. If you don't take that into consideration, you aren't looking at it objectively.

It's one thing to say a player in the 60s like Russell might not be as dominant in today's game 40 years later with the advances in medicine and increased athleticism. It's another thing to think that Mikan wouldn't be as dominant if he had played only 10 years later against clearly superior competition in a sport that had completely changed (which is the truth).

Comparing Mikan to players in the 60s and later is like comparing football players in the days of the NFL's infancy to players in the 60s and later. Those guys didn't even have legitimate helmets! They wouldn't just not be be able to play in today's league, they would all get seriously injured in the first possession!

Does anyone knock on babe ruth because the league was segregated and black people had to play the "negro league"?

Big Zo
01-03-2012, 05:30 PM
Well considering that KG is better than Dirk career wise that doesnt make much sense. KG is a top 5 PF of all time

Dirk is better than KG, and Wade is better than both of them.

BigCityofDreams
01-03-2012, 05:38 PM
Does anyone knock on babe ruth because the league was segregated and black people had to play the "negro league"?

Many people do and have been for quite some time.

heyman321
01-03-2012, 05:40 PM
Dirk is better than KG, and Wade is better than both of them.

Dirk is not better than KG. And Wade is on par with Dirk but not better than KG (career wise, of course).

MickeyMgl
01-03-2012, 05:43 PM
With mikan you ahve to value his dominance ON HIS ERA.

its unfair to try to apply old players to new parameters, athleticims, more profesinal phisical and mental training, better alimentation growin up, different set of rules etc etc.

He dominated his era much morre than Jordan did His.


I agree, although I recognize that some people look at these lists as a comparison of players as if they were on the court together at the same time, which is not altogether an invalid approach.

However, I agree that environmental changes make that approach a bit skewed toward the modern player. I don't mean the weather, of course, :) but rather as you point out, changes in training, nutrition, equipment. On that last one, "shoe science" has made a HUGE difference. Try playing in Chuck Taylors some time and you'll see.

So I agree that Mikan's dominance of his era puts him squarely in the middle of any top ten discussion.

justinnum1
01-03-2012, 05:48 PM
Not a chance on earth, with all the mileage hes put on that body i dont see him playing well into his 30's like some of the greats did. Top 10? Top 50-maybe. Look at this list and tell me who he could even remotely unseat. MJ, West, Bird, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Oscar, Robinson, Duncan, Mikan, Shaq, Hakeem.. He is 121st all time in career win share and not even in the top 100 in single season w/s. Garnett has had a better career, so has stockton, so has Dirk and its not even really close. Wade isn't even Walt Frazier. There are a ton of guys ahead of him.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_season.html

:facepalm: Wade is top 50 currently

Hellcrooner
01-03-2012, 05:52 PM
I agree, although I recognize that some people look at these lists as a comparison of players as if they were on the court together at the same time, which is not altogether an invalid approach.

However, I agree that environmental changes make that approach a bit skewed toward the modern player. I don't mean the weather, of course, :) but rather as you point out, changes in training, nutrition, equipment. On that last one, "shoe science" has made a HUGE difference. Try playing in Chuck Taylors some time and you'll see.

So I agree that Mikan's dominance of his era puts him squarely in the middle of any top ten discussion.

I actually played in chuck taylors on my playings days as an arrogant defiant act to the capitalist marketing being itroduced into basket.

yep is true, all my temates where into Air Jordans, Magic/bird Convserses, air chambers and the pumps and i was there looking like a 60s jerk with my Chuck taylors.

True story.

dtmagnet
01-03-2012, 05:52 PM
Heavens no. Do people forget the greats that have played in the NBA or do they just focus on the last 10 years?

CostanzaNumba0
01-03-2012, 05:59 PM
:facepalm: Wade is top 50 currently

Not according to the numbers hes not. Lets see how long he lasts I have a feeling his injuries are going to limit his career numbers compared to others that have played.

sep11ie
01-03-2012, 06:00 PM
http://youtu.be/vfuJS0SBSac

You mean this guy?

lavilevi23
01-03-2012, 06:17 PM
http://youtu.be/vfuJS0SBSac

You mean this guy?

Yes this guy. you damn hater.

beliges
01-03-2012, 06:19 PM
I would place Wade ahead of KG. Not sure about Dirk.

Ahead of KG? Definitely not. Ahead of Dirk, very very close.

GoPacers33
01-03-2012, 06:27 PM
EnOugh of the ****ing PG ****

lavilevi23
01-03-2012, 06:30 PM
Close this thread and re-open it in 5 years.

/thread

DoubleDragon
01-03-2012, 06:35 PM
I honestly think Wade has a shot at Top 25 (Top 50 definitely) and in my opinion, that's saying ALOT. He's an amazing talent, Hall of Fame possibilities (almost certainly), and if he manages to win a few championships with LBJ, I think he'll crack that 25 for sure. Top 25 is mind-blowing enough considering all of those legends before him. Top 10 would be a miracle. I think the decision to play alongside Lebron will both help and hinder his legacy (don't get me wrong, Wade is one of my favorite individual players), but I thought Pippen was a bonafide superstar but his partner in crime both dimmed and brightened his star depending on your viewpoint.

Wade's a superstar, period. A huge talent, great role model, few if any weaknesses. Top 10 is a bit extreme, arguably will remain Top 50 (presently) for sure, and Top 25 maybe, depending on his career. Not too shabby... who knows. Wait a decade.

justinnum1
01-03-2012, 06:38 PM
I honestly think Wade has a shot at Top 25 (Top 50 definitely) and in my opinion, that's saying ALOT. He's an amazing talent, Hall of Fame possibilities (almost certainly), and if he manages to win a few championships with LBJ, I think he'll crack that 25 for sure. Top 25 is mind-blowing enough considering all of those legends before him. Top 10 would be a miracle. I think the decision to play alongside Lebron will both help and hinder his legacy (don't get me wrong, Wade is one of my favorite individual players), but I thought Pippen was a bonafide superstar but his partner in crime both dimmed and brightened his star depending on your viewpoint.

Wade's a superstar, period. A huge talent, great role model, few if any weaknesses. Top 10 is a bit extreme, arguably Top 50 (presently) for sure, and Top 25 maybe, depending on his career. Not too shabby.
well said...his ceiling might be top 15 top 20...but he needs at least 2 more rings, and another finals mvp

Denver-boy
01-03-2012, 06:44 PM
right now, imma say no come back and ask again when miami wins 3 championships, a mvp award...than ask. clearly the answer is no, cuz you'll be disrespecting alot legendary players by saying yes.

rhymeratic
01-03-2012, 06:49 PM
D-Wade is barely top 20 at his own position all-time. Seriously.

sep11ie
01-03-2012, 06:49 PM
Yes this guy. you damn hater.

Damn, now I need wheeled outta here in a wheelchair.

bucketss
01-03-2012, 07:05 PM
are people saying dirk is better than wade, wade is better than dirk has ever been and ever will be, i cant believe winning one championship pushes this guy into ahead guys like wade even all time,

LakersMaster24
01-03-2012, 07:08 PM
Wade is a Top 5 SG IMO.

Jordan
Kobe
West
Drexler/Wade
Wade/Drexler

I wouldnt say Top 10 player of All-Time though.

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Wilt
5. Russell
6. Bird
7. Shaq
8. Kobe
9. Duncan
10. Hakeem

After the Top 3 I didnt stop and put everything in exact order :p Anyways, which player on that list is not better than Wade ?

MFFL==FML
01-03-2012, 07:09 PM
are people saying dirk is better than wade, wade is better than dirk has ever been and ever will be, i cant believe winning one championship pushes this guy into ahead guys like wade even all time,

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!! Are you kidding me? You honestly believe Wade has a better career than Dirk Nowitzki? You are a moron sir... a damn moron.... It's not even close, Dirk has an astronomically better career than Wade.

bucketss
01-03-2012, 07:13 PM
dirk isnt on the same level as wade.

MFFL==FML
01-03-2012, 07:15 PM
dirk isnt on the same level as wade.

I agree, Dirk is leaps and bounds on an entirely higher level than Wade... no where near the same level career wise.

smith&wesson
01-03-2012, 07:15 PM
i think when its all said and done lebron and wade will go down as the best duo of all time. two top 5 guys in their prime.

they take away from eachothers personal stats. for them its great and i hope it leads to rings and rings for them. but individually they slow eachother down because they have to share the ball. wade and lebron sacrifice a little bit of their games to play along side eachother.

right now if you look on nba.com youll see lebrons numbers are amazing but wades numbers are taking a hit

beliges
01-03-2012, 07:18 PM
d.wade and lebron gave up any chance at being the best at anything personally when they teamed up.

they can be the best duo.

I dont see them passing Magic and Kareem because I dont think they will win anything close to 5 rings, let alone passing MJ and Pippen with 6.

MFFL==FML
01-03-2012, 07:19 PM
d.wade and lebron gave up any chance at being the best at anything personally when they teamed up.

they can be the best duo.

No, I think Lebron still has a chance to be the greatest of all time. Wade will be declining (if he hasn't already began) soon and if James can win a few championships and a few more MVPs, I think he will definitely be in the discussion. Wade, however, has no chance as he is Robin and was given a championship in 06' by the refs. If Wade wins more rings, it won't be because he is a top 10 or even top 20-30 talent...

bucketss
01-03-2012, 07:19 PM
d.wade and lebron gave up any chance at being the best at anything personally when they teamed up.

they can be the best duo.

lebron has a shot at best sf, and wade top 3 sg,already the best player in miami heat history, both are hall of fame locks and both have shots at top ten all time.

Green_Monster
01-03-2012, 07:20 PM
Wade, is that you?

MFFL==FML
01-03-2012, 07:21 PM
lebron has a shot at best sf, and wade top 3 sg,already the best player in miami heat history, both are hall of fame locks and both have shots at top ten all time.

No, I'm sorry... Wade doesn't have a chance in hell to be top 10. Lebron does however.

beliges
01-03-2012, 07:24 PM
No, I think Lebron still has a chance to be the greatest of all time. Wade will be declining (if he hasn't already began) soon and if James can win a few championships and a few more MVPs, I think he will definitely be in the discussion. Wade, however, has no chance as he is Robin and was given a championship in 06' by the refs. If Wade wins more rings, it won't be because he is a top 10 or even top 20-30 talent...

That he does. But he needs to start winning and start winning SOON. He needs at least 3 titles to pass Bird. At least 5 titles to pass Kobe and Magic and at least 6 to pass MJ. Given the fact that he is 27 already, he doesnt have many years to waste. If he can pull off 5-6 titles in the next 8 years, then yes, but how likely is that? I guess we shall see.

Bulls_fan90
01-03-2012, 07:25 PM
Lol. Wade is so overrated.

lavilevi23
01-03-2012, 07:27 PM
No, I think Lebron still has a chance to be the greatest of all time. Wade will be declining (if he hasn't already began) soon and if James can win a few championships and a few more MVPs, I think he will definitely be in the discussion. Wade, however, has no chance as he is Robin and was given a championship in 06' by the refs. If Wade wins more rings, it won't be because he is a top 10 or even top 20-30 talent...

WOW! Talk about a Wade hater... The guy is and will be a top 5 player for the next few years.

lavilevi23
01-03-2012, 07:28 PM
ROFL!!!!!!!!!!! Are you kidding me? You honestly believe Wade has a better career than Dirk Nowitzki? You are a moron sir... a damn moron.... It's not even close, Dirk has an astronomically better career than Wade.

Talk to me when Wade is on Dirk's current age *******.

DR_1
01-03-2012, 07:28 PM
L.O.L.

Dumbest thread in the history of psd.

lavilevi23
01-03-2012, 07:30 PM
D-Wade is barely top 20 at his own position all-time. Seriously.

omg wow. :facepalm:
really? WOW! I've read it all now....
I hope you weren't serious.

MFFL==FML
01-03-2012, 07:30 PM
Talk to me when Wade is on Dirk's current age *******.

I don't think Wade will be league MVP in the next 3 years... Wade hasn't even been considered a potential MVP as many times as Dirk has and that definitely won't be changing anytime soon. Physically Wade is 5 years older than Dirk Nowitzki...

DR_1
01-03-2012, 07:31 PM
Lol. Wade is so overrated.

This - 100%

lavilevi23
01-03-2012, 07:32 PM
Lol. Wade is so overrated.

Underrated and has known to be his whole career if anything.

lavilevi23
01-03-2012, 07:33 PM
I don't think Wade will be league MVP in the next 3 years... I think physically Wade is 5 years older than Dirk Nowitzki...

You should get your head checked then... :crazy:

MFFL==FML
01-03-2012, 07:35 PM
Underrated and has known to be his whole career if anything.

omg wow. :facepalm:
really? WOW! I've read it all now....
I hope you weren't serious.

beliges
01-03-2012, 07:36 PM
Underrated and has known to be his whole career if anything.

I think hes perfectly rated by the objective fan. He is nowhere near the top 10 but he is somewhere in the top 25-30 players. He is a great player. One of the better players to ever play the game. But he is nowhere near some of the all time greats and at this point in his career, I dont see him passing them. But again, a great player with a great career.

Getting UGGLA
01-03-2012, 07:36 PM
There's Jordan, then there's everybody else. Jordan was the best player in an era of legends, where almost every team had awesome players. Today, there are only a handful of players worthy of being called great. Durant is the best player today, hands down.

MFFL==FML
01-03-2012, 07:37 PM
You should get your head checked then... :crazy:

I think everyone knows Dirk will outlast Wade physically speaking... you obviously have no idea the mileage Wade has accumulated in his years in the NBA... Dirk will decline at a much more graceful pace than Wade... this isn't even debatable.

MFFL==FML
01-03-2012, 07:37 PM
There's Jordan, then there's everybody else. Jordan was the best player in an era of legends, where almost every team had awesome players. Today, there are only a handful of players worthy of being called great. Durant is the best player today, hands down.

Umm... no he's not...

beliges
01-03-2012, 07:38 PM
There's Jordan, then there's everybody else. Jordan was the best player in an era of legends, where almost every team had awesome players. Today, there are only a handful of players worthy of being called great. Durant is the best player today, hands down.

The level of talent today is far greater than the level of talent in MJs years. This is probably the most talented era in the history of the game.

tcav701
01-03-2012, 07:40 PM
16 yes votes?

Are Miami fans allowed to vote, I mean they just started watching basketball last year.

MFFL==FML
01-03-2012, 07:43 PM
16 yes votes?

Are Miami fans aloud to vote, I mean they just started watching basketball last year.

:laugh:

South Sided
01-03-2012, 07:43 PM
NO! you have got to be in like high school.

bklynny67
01-03-2012, 07:51 PM
HAHA this is a good joke! There's just no way. TOP 10 OF ALL TIME??? Come on....

bucketss
01-03-2012, 07:51 PM
There's Jordan, then there's everybody else. Jordan was the best player in an era of legends, where almost every team had awesome players. Today, there are only a handful of players worthy of being called great. Durant is the best player today, hands down.

only kids who watch the game because of hype and flash think durant is the best in the league.

ThePooH_1_
01-03-2012, 07:54 PM
16 yes votes?

Are Miami fans allowed to vote, I mean they just started watching basketball last year.

lol this :clap: :laugh2:

tcav701
01-03-2012, 07:55 PM
So Where does the great Norris Cole rank all time?

25 sounds about right.

lavilevi23
01-03-2012, 07:56 PM
If Basketball was just about racking up points, Durant would be the best in the NBA.
But its not and thats why Wade, LeBron and most importantly Howard and Paul are better than him. I'd also argue about Kobe currently being better than KD.

South Sided
01-03-2012, 07:57 PM
I think everyone knows Dirk will outlast Wade physically speaking... you obviously have no idea the mileage Wade has accumulated in his years in the NBA... Dirk will decline at a much more graceful pace than Wade... this isn't even debatable.

Neither Dirk nor Wade belong anywhere near a top ten all-time conversation. They barely are hanging on to being top five currently. Rose, Lebron, Durant, Howard, Kobe........All better players(no specific order). Please STOP the madness.

Getting UGGLA
01-03-2012, 07:58 PM
The level of talent today is far greater than the level of talent in MJs years. This is probably the most talented era in the history of the game.

:facepalm:

South Sided
01-03-2012, 07:59 PM
If Basketball was just about racking up points, Durant would be the best in the NBA.
But its not and thats why Wade, LeBron and most importantly Howard and Paul are better than him. I'd also argue about Kobe currently being better than KD.

The same Paul that was DOMINATED by the MVP a couple days ago:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

MTL_123
01-03-2012, 08:01 PM
naw but top 10 sg of all time yes

beliges
01-03-2012, 08:01 PM
:facepalm:

Compare Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Lebron, Wade, CP3, Rose, J Kidd, KG, T Mac, Melo, Durant, Howard etc... with the rest of the 90s stars. What perimeter players were there in the 90s? Drexler? And the big men, yea you had Robinson, Hakeem, Ewing, but Ill take Shaq, Duncan KG over any combination of the 90s bigs. Again, the talent level of the 00s, is greater than that of the 90s.

Getting UGGLA
01-03-2012, 08:01 PM
only kids who watch the game because of hype and flash think durant is the best in the league.

Speaks volumes to the level of talent today. Durant is the best player today because he's the best player who doesn't think he's a God because he keeps his ego in check unlike Kobe, half of the Miami Heat.....

lavilevi23
01-03-2012, 08:03 PM
Neither Dirk nor Wade belong anywhere near a top ten all-time conversation. They barely are hanging on to being top five currently. Rose, Lebron, Durant, Howard, Kobe........All better players(no specific order). Please STOP the madness.

No,no and no.

this is for u:

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7116899/nba-player-rankings-3

beliges
01-03-2012, 08:04 PM
Speaks volumes to the level of talent today. Durant is the best player today because he's the best player who doesn't think he's a God because he keeps his ego in check unlike Kobe, half of the Miami Heat.....

Yea because MJ wasnt an egotistical selfish prick. How clueless are you? When youre that great, you will undoubtedly be selfish and egotistical.

bucketss
01-03-2012, 08:05 PM
The same Paul that was DOMINATED by the MVP a couple days ago:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

who the hell cares about one game, is this your way of shamefully plugging your boy rose into the discussion.

lavilevi23
01-03-2012, 08:06 PM
The same Paul that was DOMINATED by the MVP a couple days ago:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Yes. But WTF does Paul being dominated by Rose have to do with Paul not being better than Durant? What are you suggesting? :confused:

bucketss
01-03-2012, 08:07 PM
Speaks volumes to the level of talent today. Durant is the best player today because he's the best player who doesn't think he's a God because he keeps his ego in check unlike Kobe, half of the Miami Heat.....

LOL, got it. keep your ego in check and you're now the best. guess someone should have informed mj back in the day

Big Zo
01-03-2012, 08:08 PM
Neither Dirk nor Wade belong anywhere near a top ten all-time conversation. They barely are hanging on to being top five currently. Rose, Lebron, Durant, Howard, Kobe........All better players(no specific order). Please STOP the madness.

Rose is not a better player. Take off the homer glasses.

bucketss
01-03-2012, 08:09 PM
did someone just say rose is better than wade :laugh:

KeepMonta#8
01-03-2012, 08:10 PM
Hell no lol. He'll be top 30.

Players that are ahead of Wade that play today that Wade will not pass

Duncan (Top 10)
Kobe (Top 10)
Dirk (Top 20)
Garnett (Top 20)

omg stuff with the dirk stuff man its getting old

Getting UGGLA
01-03-2012, 08:10 PM
Compare Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Lebron, Wade, CP3, Rose, J Kidd, KG, T Mac, Melo, Durant, Howard etc... with the rest of the 90s stars. What perimeter players were there in the 90s? Drexler? And the big men, yea you had Robinson, Hakeem, Ewing, but Ill take Shaq, Duncan KG over any combination of the 90s bigs. Again, the talent level of the 00s, is greater than that of the 90s.

:facepalm:

Newsflash, many of those names you mentioned were 90's players. Duncan, Shaq, Kidd, KG.....? The talent level in the past (70's-->90's) was MUCH greater than today. Bird/Magic/MJ/Ewing/Dominique Wilkins baby!/Barkley/Malone/Hakeem/Pippen/Stockton/Robinson/Shaq/Drexler/Miller/Payton/Hill/Hardaway/Dumars/Price/Kemp/Thomas, the list goes on forever. Most teams had HOFers on them. Jordan/Pippen would whip the sh** out of LeBron and Wade any freaking day of the week. This discussion is ridiculous.

--23--
01-03-2012, 08:12 PM
simple answer....NO!

Getting UGGLA
01-03-2012, 08:15 PM
Yea because MJ wasnt an egotistical selfish prick. How clueless are you? When youre that great, you will undoubtedly be selfish and egotistical.

:crazy: I'm not even a Bulls fan, I love the Hawks and Magic and was a Dominique/Hardaway/Shaq fan, but it was obvious Jordan was the class of the NBA, and a standup guy, class act all the way. He is the greatest to ever play this game regardless of whether you would like to admit it or not. He made mincemeat of anyone he faced. You probably dislike him because you either idolized him, begged for him to be traded to your team or most likely, were not even born yet and have a hard time contemplating what true greatness is.

MFFL==FML
01-03-2012, 08:15 PM
Neither Dirk nor Wade belong anywhere near a top ten all-time conversation. They barely are hanging on to being top five currently. Rose, Lebron, Durant, Howard, Kobe........All better players(no specific order). Please STOP the madness.

Wait what? When did Rose get in the top 5? :laugh:

1.) LeBron James (regular season that is)
2.) Dwight Howard
3.) Chris Paul
4.) Dirk Nowitzki
5.) Kevin Durant
6.) Dwyane Wade
7.) Derrick Rose
8.) Kobe Bryant

Dirk will probably not make top 10 but he is top 20 as of right now. Wade has a chance to be top 30.

smith&wesson
01-03-2012, 08:20 PM
I dont see them passing Magic and Kareem because I dont think they will win anything close to 5 rings, let alone passing MJ and Pippen with 6.

you may be right but it can happen. even if ppl hate to admit it the heat have a chance to win a ship every year as long as wade and lebron are healthy


No, I think Lebron still has a chance to be the greatest of all time. Wade will be declining (if he hasn't already began) soon and if James can win a few championships and a few more MVPs, I think he will definitely be in the discussion. Wade, however, has no chance as he is Robin and was given a championship in 06' by the refs. If Wade wins more rings, it won't be because he is a top 10 or even top 20-30 talent...

i disagree, if you watched the series when miami beat dallas in the finals you would know wade won the ship for miami that year.

also i never said they didnt have a chance and imo wade is closer then lebron because he won a title already.


lebron has a shot at best sf, and wade top 3 sg,already the best player in miami heat history, both are hall of fame locks and both have shots at top ten all time.

were not talking about the hall of fame. were talking about top 10 of all time. and lebron has some work to do before he gets labled as the best small fwd of all time. to me bird is still that guy until lebron gets to winning.

as of right now neither of them are even sniffing at the top 10. but i never said they dont have a chance. they still have alot of basketball to play. imo its highly unlikely unless wade and lebron start winning ships every year for the next 3-4 years atleast. and one of them gets more mvp awards over the other

Supreme LA
01-03-2012, 08:24 PM
It's crazy how many Heat fans discredit KG's career. But considering they are all bandwagon fans and pretty young, I'll cut them some slack for not having the pleasure of watching KG throughout his career.

You're either too young, too ignorant, or just plain stupid if you think Wade is better than KG in terms of their careers :facepalm:

KG was also the better player and had also had a better career than Dirk. Dirk is just better at this point of his career. KG in his prime, on defense would put every other PF to shame. The guy had great feet and lateral movement, such so that he could stay in front of guards. KG was an all-time great defender.

Wade is definitely a lock for top 10 SG. I know some Heat fans like to claim he won a title with a weak cast and a 35 yr old Shaq, but if I remember correctly, Shaq commanded double and triple teams in the paint even then at all times leaving the perimeter all to Wade do his thing in isolations. The Mavs threw everybody to keep a body on Shaq in the paint those Finals, and Alonzo Mourning was pretty much a beast at protecting the rim that year as well.

Wade didn't so it by himself young Heat fans :facepalm:

Getting UGGLA
01-03-2012, 08:24 PM
Wait what? When did Rose get in the top 5? :laugh:

1.) LeBron James (regular season that is)
2.) Dwight Howard
3.) Chris Paul
4.) Dirk Nowitzki
5.) Kevin Durant
6.) Dwyane Wade
7.) Derrick Rose
8.) Kobe Bryant

Dirk will probably not make top 10 but he is top 20 as of right now. Wade has a chance to be top 30.

Let me fix that for you: (for their careers):

1.) Kobe Bryant
2.) Kevin Durant
3.) LeBron James (regular season that is)
4.) Dwight Howard
5.) Dirk Nowitzki
6.) Dwyane Wade
7.) Chris Paul
8.) Derrick Rose

justinnum1
01-03-2012, 08:27 PM
Neither Dirk nor Wade belong anywhere near a top ten all-time conversation. They barely are hanging on to being top five currently. Rose, Lebron, Durant, Howard, Kobe........All better players(no specific order). Please STOP the madness.

:facepalm: the other are debatable

bucketss
01-03-2012, 08:29 PM
Let me fix that for you: (for their careers):

1.) Kobe Bryant
2.) Kevin Durant
3.) LeBron James (regular season that is)
4.) Dwight Howard
5.) Dirk Nowitzki
6.) Dwyane Wade
7.) Chris Paul
8.) Derrick Rose

lord have mercy

Supreme LA
01-03-2012, 08:29 PM
:facepalm: the other are debatable

Are you being serious??? Now Wade is better than Kobe all-time???

agureghian
01-03-2012, 08:30 PM
no he will be a top 25 player if he wins 2 more championships. I dont think he has any chance of being the mvp while durant and james are around. he is essentially a watered down kobe.

Getting UGGLA
01-03-2012, 08:31 PM
Agreed. The only current player in the top 10 all time is Kobe.

bucketss
01-03-2012, 08:31 PM
you may be right but it can happen. even if ppl hate to admit it the heat have a chance to win a ship every year as long as wade and lebron are healthy



i disagree, if you watched the series when miami beat dallas in the finals you would know wade won the ship for miami that year.

also i never said they didnt have a chance and imo wade is closer then lebron because he won a title already.



were not talking about the hall of fame. were talking about top 10 of all time. and lebron has some work to do before he gets labled as the best small fwd of all time. to me bird is still that guy until lebron gets to winning.

as of right now neither of them are even sniffing at the top 10. but i never said they dont have a chance. they still have alot of basketball to play. imo its highly unlikely unless wade and lebron start winning ships every year for the next 3-4 years atleast. and one of them gets more mvp awards over the other

you said they gave up any chance when they joined, they didnt they still have realistic shot

tcav701
01-03-2012, 08:33 PM
lord have mercy

hahahaha.

There are so many active players with better careers.

Active: KG, Duncan, Kobe, Dirk all better careers.

Wade is more in the range of Lebron, Peirce, Ray Allen, Kidd, Nash

smith&wesson
01-03-2012, 08:33 PM
if lebron & wade only get one or two ships together i really dont think any one would be impressed. i think thats an expectation. anything less then that is a complete fail.

they HAVE too win atleast 3 together if they want to be mentioned amongst greats like mj, magic, kareem, bird, russle, ,etc.

if kobe can get two with gasol and odem then lebron should be able to atleast get 2 with wade and bosh. ATLEAST. two to me would be normal. i wouldnt even mark out. i would be impressed if they won 4-5

bucketss
01-03-2012, 08:33 PM
Are you being serious??? Now Wade is better than Kobe all-time???

were not talking all time, bulls fans said rose was better than wade.

tcav701
01-03-2012, 08:34 PM
Agreed. The only current player in the top 10 all time is Kobe.

Timmy says hello.

Lakers + Giants
01-03-2012, 08:35 PM
Kobe is barely in the top 10, how is wade going to get in??? No way guys like Jordan, Wilt, Magic, Kareem, Russell, Bird, Shaq, Kobe, Robertson, and Duncan are moved down in place of wade. No way in hell. Top 15 Maybe he'll still go up against Hakeem, Moses and Karl Malone, Baylor and West.

It's gonna be tough even for lebron to get in the top 10 and bump down some of those players. .

ManRam
01-03-2012, 08:35 PM
No. He won't ever be better than Kobe, Shaq or Duncan IMO...let alone the greats that played before him. I have Kobe a fringe top 10 player right now, so how the hell can I assume Wade can get there? He'll never top Kobe...I think if the Heat win 2-3+ wins, LeBron will be regarded as being a better player too. That's 4 players in his era. There's just not room in the top 10 for him IMO.

smith&wesson
01-03-2012, 08:37 PM
you said they gave up any chance when they joined, they didnt they still have realistic shot

this is word for word what i posted. i dont see where i suggested they had no chance

"i think when its all said and done lebron and wade will go down as the best duo of all time. two top 5 guys in their prime.

they take away from eachothers personal stats. for them its great and i hope it leads to rings and rings for them. but individually they slow eachother down because they have to share the ball. wade and lebron sacrifice a little bit of their games to play along side eachother.

right now if you look on nba.com youll see lebrons numbers are amazing but wades numbers are taking a hit"

Supreme LA
01-03-2012, 08:37 PM
were not talking all time, bulls fans said rose was better than wade.

Oh ok. It's too early into Rose's career to judge him all time at this moment but the kid is definitely going to be an all-time great when it's all said and done barring any major injuries. Rose has improved his defense and 3-py shooting this year and he will always lead his team into contention. It's not a joke to consider it at some point, but now is just too early.

Getting UGGLA
01-03-2012, 08:38 PM
if lebron & wade only get one or two ships together i really dont think any one would be impressed. i think thats an expectation. anything less then that is a complete fail.

they HAVE too win atleast 3 together if they want to be mentioned amongst greats like mj, magic, kareem, bird, russle, ,etc.

if kobe can get two with gasol and odem then lebron should be able to atleast get 2 with wade and bosh. ATLEAST. two to me would be normal. i wouldnt even mark out. i would be impressed if they won 4-5

4-5 wouldn't impress me too much. The league isn't as strong as it used to be. Miami will roll over weak teams (and there's plenty of them) in today's NBA. That being said, I'm not sure they'll even get one because their egos are ginourmous. They'll be fighting over who's going to shoot the buzzer beater while the other team steals the ball. Dallas proved last year and even my Hawks did last night (thank God) that any well balanced team can beat the heat.

Getting UGGLA
01-03-2012, 08:40 PM
Kobe is barely in the top 10, how is wade going to get in??? No way guys like Jordan, Wilt, Magic, Kareem, Russell, Bird, Shaq, Kobe, Robertson, and Duncan are moved down in place of wade. No way in hell. Top 15 Maybe he'll still go up against Hakeem, Moses and Karl Malone, Baylor and West.

It's gonna be tough even for lebron to get in the top 10 and bump down some of those players. .

:clap:

justinnum1
01-03-2012, 08:41 PM
Are you being serious??? Now Wade is better than Kobe all-time???

not all time, currently

bucketss
01-03-2012, 08:41 PM
Oh ok. It's too early into Rose's career to judge him all time at this moment but the kid is definitely going to be an all-time great when it's all said and done barring any major injuries. Rose has improved his defense and 3-py shooting this year and he will always lead his team into contention. It's not a joke to consider it at some point, but now is just too early.

yeah at this points its a bit silly imo, i think wade is just better on both ends right now

smith&wesson
01-03-2012, 08:42 PM
No. He won't ever be better than Kobe, Shaq or Duncan IMO...let alone the greats that played before him. I have Kobe a fringe top 10 player right now, so how the hell can I assume Wade can get there? He'll never top Kobe...I think if the Heat win 2-3+ wins, LeBron will be regarded as being a better player too. That's 4 players in his era. There's just not room in the top 10 for him IMO.

it all depends on what they do with the rest of their careers. the good news for them is that they play together for another X mount of years in their prime. they have work to do though, ALOT of it! its not likely but its possible. if they go on to win like 5 rings together one of thems cracking the top 10.

if lebron gets anything over 3 rings i put him ahead of bird

ManRam
01-03-2012, 08:44 PM
not all time, currently

And that has to do with this thread because....????

beliges
01-03-2012, 08:47 PM
:crazy: I'm not even a Bulls fan, I love the Hawks and Magic and was a Dominique/Hardaway/Shaq fan, but it was obvious Jordan was the class of the NBA, and a standup guy, class act all the way. He is the greatest to ever play this game regardless of whether you would like to admit it or not. He made mincemeat of anyone he faced. You probably dislike him because you either idolized him, begged for him to be traded to your team or most likely, were not even born yet and have a hard time contemplating what true greatness is.

Jordan was a selfish prick. Yes he was classy, but he was an egomaniac. Im not so sure youre old enough to remember MJ actually play. ANybody that knows the game in the 90s will tell you MJ was an egotistical, selfish prick. Thats not some sort of mystery.

ManRam
01-03-2012, 08:50 PM
Whoa!?!? Jordan was a stand up guy? Hahahaha.

Dude punches teammates, cheats on his wife, has gambling problems, and is regarded as the most ego-maniacal player the league has seen....yet he's a stand up guy. A guy that countless teammates have blasted...

Great player, not a stand up guy. Luckily, your character doesn't matter when it comes to determining how good players are...or at least it shouldn't.

It doesn't matter how selfish any of these guys are...or anything. All that matters is on the court production. Not quite sure why this is being discussed either...

smith&wesson
01-03-2012, 08:50 PM
4-5 wouldn't impress me too much. The league isn't as strong as it used to be. Miami will roll over weak teams (and there's plenty of them) in today's NBA. That being said, I'm not sure they'll even get one because their egos are ginourmous. They'll be fighting over who's going to shoot the buzzer beater while the other team steals the ball. Dallas proved last year and even my Hawks did last night (thank God) that any well balanced team can beat the heat.


well they would pretty much have to do it back to back to back..

i mean they dont have 8 years on their contract or anything. they basically have to dominate for the next 4 years straight. that would be impressive to me. its pretty hard to do a repeat or even a 3peat let alone winning 4 rings in a row which is what they basically have to do for either of them to crack top 10 all time.

ragee
01-03-2012, 08:51 PM
That would be hard to accomplish especially for him. No disrespect. HE is a great player but I don't think he will stay in his prime very long.

Getting UGGLA
01-03-2012, 08:52 PM
it all depends on what they do with the rest of their careers. the good news for them is that they play together for another X mount of years in their prime. they have work to do though, ALOT of it! its not likely but its possible. if they go on to win like 5 rings together one of thems cracking the top 10.

if lebron gets anything over 3 rings i put him ahead of bird

Like I said, 3 rings in this day and age wouldn't be tough. That wouldn't put him past Bird though, that's ridiculous to say. His numbers and his gameplay might. A lot of factors have to come into play. He's not clutch, we've seen him in the playoffs, Bird was. Anyway, LeBron was slurping on his mommas boobies and listening to this as a lullaby when all the true legends were playing so how can he even be considered legend yet?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_shxzlTRK44

J_M_B
01-03-2012, 08:54 PM
This is just ridiculous.

As great as Wade is, he's far from a top 10 player of all time, or even 20 in my opinion .. but he definitely belongs in the top 30.

He's a special player though and showed that with one of the greatest finals performances ever, as well as his '09 season which rivals any player that has played the shooting guard position, outside of Jordan. Also most greats brought something unique to the game and Wade certainly has done that with his shot blocking ability.

but even all that, he's still a step behind from many of the guys in the top 10-15 ... first ballot hall of famer but definitely not top 10

lavilevi23
01-03-2012, 09:01 PM
Wait what? When did Rose get in the top 5? :laugh:

1.) LeBron James (regular season that is)
2.) Dwight Howard
3.) Chris Paul
4.) Dirk Nowitzki
5.) Kevin Durant
6.) Dwyane Wade
7.) Derrick Rose
8.) Kobe Bryant

Dirk will probably not make top 10 but he is top 20 as of right now. Wade has a chance to be top 30.

LMAO @ Dirk over Wade. What a shameful homer. LOL at Paul or Durant. If Durant was playing D and making his teammates better, you could make a case for him over Wade, but not right now anyway.

justinnum1
01-03-2012, 09:04 PM
And that has to do with this thread because....????

someone commented that kobe is currently better than wade, and i disagreed

Rndy
01-03-2012, 09:08 PM
Whoa!?!? Jordan was a stand up guy? Hahahaha.

Dude punches teammates, cheats on his wife, has gambling problems, and is regarded as the most ego-maniacal player the league has seen....yet he's a stand up guy. A guy that countless teammates have blasted...

Great player, not a stand up guy. Luckily, your character doesn't matter when it comes to determining how good players are...or at least it shouldn't.

It doesn't matter how selfish any of these guys are...or anything. All that matters is on the court production. Not quite sure why this is being discussed either...

It's called being a leader! :p

smith&wesson
01-03-2012, 09:10 PM
Like I said, 3 rings in this day and age wouldn't be tough. That wouldn't put him past Bird though, that's ridiculous to say. His numbers and his gameplay might. A lot of factors have to come into play. He's not clutch, we've seen him in the playoffs, Bird was. Anyway, LeBron was slurping on his mommas boobies and listening to this as a lullaby when all the true legends were playing so how can he even be considered legend yet?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_shxzlTRK44

if lebron wins 4rings id put him over bird. i dont care i said it. as is lebron is the 2nd best small fwd of all time.

who's to say that bad teams didnt exists when any of these top 10 players played ? bad teams have always existed. alot of them.

I dont remember any season where all 30 teams were considered contenders. hell i dont remember a season where 10 teams were considered contenders

if you say the era of basketball was tougher when bird and magic played i would agree with you but the rules were also different and wade and lebron dont really have much control over that so how can you hold it against them?

your basically saying 3 rings in the 80s are worth 6 rings in the 2000's. i just dont agree with that.

Getting UGGLA
01-03-2012, 09:24 PM
"Originally Posted by ManRamForPrez24
Whoa!?!? Jordan was a stand up guy? Hahahaha.

Dude punches teammates, cheats on his wife, has gambling problems, and is regarded as the most ego-maniacal player the league has seen....yet he's a stand up guy. A guy that countless teammates have blasted...

Great player, not a stand up guy. Luckily, your character doesn't matter when it comes to determining how good players are...or at least it shouldn't.

It doesn't matter how selfish any of these guys are...or anything. All that matters is on the court production. Not quite sure why this is being discussed either..."

BS

Jordan did more charity work than pretty much anyone during his career, he held events and camps for kids, he was a GIANT role model, Michael Jordan does alot of good things with his money. He supports many charities, plays in charity Golf tournaments, makes public appeareances for charities, etc... He also contributes to UNC alumni funds for scholarships. Most of what he does he doesn't want the publicity for regarding his charitable contributions. I'll grant you he may have had problems in his personal life but so did Tiger, but as an athlete I feel he is still another incredible role model.

theheatles
01-03-2012, 09:31 PM
wade will need to win 3 more championships, so yes he will be top 10 and bron will be top 3

smith&wesson
01-03-2012, 09:32 PM
"Originally Posted by ManRamForPrez24
Whoa!?!? Jordan was a stand up guy? Hahahaha.

Dude punches teammates, cheats on his wife, has gambling problems, and is regarded as the most ego-maniacal player the league has seen....yet he's a stand up guy. A guy that countless teammates have blasted...

Great player, not a stand up guy. Luckily, your character doesn't matter when it comes to determining how good players are...or at least it shouldn't.

It doesn't matter how selfish any of these guys are...or anything. All that matters is on the court production. Not quite sure why this is being discussed either..."

BS

Jordan did more charity work than pretty much anyone during his career, he held events and camps for kids, he was a GIANT role model, Michael Jordan does alot of good things with his money. He supports many charities, plays in charity Golf tournaments, makes public appeareances for charities, etc... He also contributes to UNC alumni funds for scholarships. Most of what he does he doesn't want the publicity for regarding his charitable contributions. I'll grant you he may have had problems in his personal life but so did Tiger, but as an athlete I feel he is still another incredible role model.

his personality is what i think he was referring too. you would have to be a really crappy human being if you were willing to give money away for free at casino's world wide and not donate money to children who are food deprived.

back on topic.

i dont think wade and lebron will crack top ten. but it will be interesting to watch them try over the next number of years.

beliges
01-03-2012, 09:33 PM
wade will need to win 3 more championships, so yes he will be top 10 and bron will be top 3

LOL Bron will need at least 5 titles to be in the top 3. With 3 titles, Bron will be up there with Bird as a top 6-8 guy.

tcav701
01-04-2012, 07:04 AM
wade will need to win 3 more championships, so yes he will be top 10 and bron will be top 3

HHAHAHAHAH

Who let you back in here?

GrumpyOldMan
01-04-2012, 08:30 AM
Wade is a great player who should be considered for top 50 alltime and that is a great accomplishment. There have just been so many great players that I dont see him as an alltime top ten guy. Nothing against the guy, I just dont see it.

Hellcrooner
01-04-2012, 08:48 AM
Lol at people being so brainwashed by marketing and merchandaising that they cant accept that Jordan offcourt is just a big piece of **** and a douchebag.

benzni
01-04-2012, 08:54 AM
no but i believe that he has a fighting chance

quade36
01-04-2012, 10:14 AM
I think he will definitely crack the top 50. Maybe even top 30 one day. But top 20 is a huge huge stretch. Below are Bill Simmons top 96 basketball players of all time. Yes I know this is an opinion but Bill Simmons is one of the most knowledgeable basketball gurus of our time even if he is biased for the Celtics. I'd recommend every read Book of Basketball, the NBA according to the sports guy. Anyways, Simmons ranked him 53rd as of a year ago.

http://www.bareknucks.com/bill-simmons96-greatest-nba-players-ever

DR_1
01-04-2012, 10:22 AM
No,no and no.

this is for u:

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7116899/nba-player-rankings-3

Ya quote ESPN, that will help a lot :laugh2:

mightybosstone
01-04-2012, 10:24 AM
Does anyone knock on babe ruth because the league was segregated and black people had to play the "negro league"?

It's a completely different situation. For one, look at the percentage of African American players in the NBA to the MLB. It's not even close. Also, baseball is less dependent on size and athletic ability. If you can hit the ball then, you could hit the ball now, and that's what Ruth did. I'm sure there were guys with 90+ MPH fastballs, nasty breaking pitches and change ups in his era as well.

Also, baseball is pretty much the same game it was then, save for a few minor changes here or there, while Mikan played prior to the shot clock era, when basketball was far more slowly paced and teams just sat on the ball at the end of the game to preserve wins.

And that's before you consider that baseball places more emphasis on career totals than the NBA does, because baseball is sport where longevity is more highly valued. Ruth's career HR total keeps him relevant among the all-time greats.

It's not even a valid comparison, IMO...

DR_1
01-04-2012, 10:27 AM
were not talking all time, bulls fans said rose was better than wade.

Yeah and he is.

tcav701
01-04-2012, 10:29 AM
The players currently in the top ten DOMINATED their sport during thier time. There was little debate who the best was when these guys were in their peak. LeBron certianly has a shot at the top 10 but how can Wade ever be considered when he was NEVER even considered the best player in any season?

bucketss
01-04-2012, 10:30 AM
Yeah and he is.

your name is drose, im sure your opinion is unbiased and not you just being a blind homer.:rolleyes:

mightybosstone
01-04-2012, 10:32 AM
I'll admit that I believe Wade will not crack the top 10 barring some miracle or him stepping up his game, but reading the comments, I have to say all the "Wade is overrated" statements are just ********. Wade is 6th in career WS/48 ALL-TIME behind only MJ, Lebron, Shaq, Robinson and Wilt. I could say "case closed" right there, but then you have to consider he's second all-time in USG% (behind only MJ), 9th in career PPG, 23rd in career WS/48 and 43rd in career APG.

He's ALREADY a guaranteed top 50 player in my book and he's only 29! And I think if he can play another 4-5 seasons, he'll easily win another couple of rings and settle into the top 20-25 somewhere in the Karl Malone, Barkley, Robinson, Dirk, KG group, and maybe even ahead of those guys.

So if you want to call someone overrated, check your facts for spewing nonsense...

Heatcheck
01-04-2012, 11:22 AM
Agreed. The only current player in the top 10 all time is Kobe.

Not at all,
and Wade is better than Kobe. Kobe had the fortune of playing on MUCH better teams in his career, so he has more rings. But Wade's numbers are better across the board and is a much more complete and efficient player.

MonroeFAN
01-04-2012, 11:43 AM
Well considering that KG is better than Dirk career wise that doesnt make much sense. KG is a top 5 PF of all time

ok? I disagree. What has he done better during his career? Dirk has a higher PPG career average, better percentages, and was absolutely insane last season in the playoffs. KG has a higher rebound rate, and more assists. Their career block numbers are .5 away from one another. He did have more steals, can't take that away from him, but over all I prefer Dirk's game. KG also had to carry his team for most of his career, not to championships, but to decent/good seasons. That could explain the assists. I just claimed that the Heat were gifted the championship in 06 (might not be a popular opinion with the Heat fans, but that's how I feel), which would mean that Dirk would be sitting on 2 right now.

If KG is a top 5 PF of all time, so is Dirk.

lavilevi23
01-04-2012, 11:58 AM
Yeah and he is.

:laugh: :laugh2: HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Thanks for the laughs lol... Are you Derick Rose's brother or something ? blinded by homerism much?! :rolleyes:

Dankster
01-04-2012, 12:10 PM
I'd have to say no way. He's too old now, doesn't have too many years left at this level. Also was injury proned, so he lost many games that could've buffed his career statistics a bit more. definitely first ballot HOFer, but no way top 10. The only 3 guys who've played recently that can be spoken about as top 10 players is Kobe, Shaq and Duncan. Lebron obviously has an excellent shot as well if he puts in about 6-7 more years of this level of play.

AFG-NYC
01-04-2012, 12:27 PM
If you look at his career stats he's not even close to 20,000 points and he's already 29. Kobe just reached 28,000 and is on pace to surpass Jordan if he plays another 2-3 seasons. He's had knee surgury, and has enough miles on his legs, i dont know how many more seasons he'd play.

He doesnt have the championships yet. One ring isnt going to cut for you to be a top 10 player of all time. Magic has 5, Jordan has 6, even kobe has 5.

He doesnt have any season MVP awards yet.

Right now he's the second best player on his team. There's not too many top 10 players who were the 2nd best players on a team in their prime.

naps
01-04-2012, 12:46 PM
YES. If he stays healthy I have no doubt in my mind. He would already be a top 15 had LeBron not choked last year's finals. Wade ended up losing another MVP award for LeBron's failure.

Chronz
01-04-2012, 12:54 PM
LOL Bron will need at least 5 titles to be in the top 3. With 3 titles, Bron will be up there with Bird as a top 6-8 guy.

Nah, with his flat out statistical dominance he wouldnt need many rings. Otherwise why not have Hondo ahead of all those guys? Hes got way more rings and decent stats too.

Chronz
01-04-2012, 12:58 PM
No. He won't ever be better than Kobe, Shaq or Duncan IMO...let alone the greats that played before him. I have Kobe a fringe top 10 player right now, so how the hell can I assume Wade can get there? He'll never top Kobe...I think if the Heat win 2-3+ wins, LeBron will be regarded as being a better player too. That's 4 players in his era. There's just not room in the top 10 for him IMO.

I think Wade really screwed himself by staying in College so long. Isnt it sad that in the end whats good for the NBA (drafting more developed players) is what hurts the legacy of the individual because hes playing catch up on these phenoms who who came into the league unprepared.

naps
01-04-2012, 01:01 PM
The OP is a troll. OP is still mad because Wade abused the mavs with the greatest finals performance of all time. 2006 still bothers him.


BTW, Drik Nowitzki is the most overrated franchise player in the history of the game. A supreme choke artist for over a decade can't be discussed in any top list barring choke list. How are the Mavs doing now? Yeah, thanks to the stacked team and Chandler who made Dirk relevant for a month. Overrated.

Heatcheck
01-04-2012, 01:06 PM
Its a legitimate question, we were discussing it in another thread yesterday about Manu, he probably saw it and thought it would make a good thread.
I hate to sound like a broken record here, but just because someone says something against your team or fav player, doesn't mean their trolling.

I personally believe, if you put Kobe there, you have put Wade there though.

naps
01-04-2012, 01:12 PM
Yeah and he is.

Rose is better than Wade? GTFO!

KingPosey
01-04-2012, 01:15 PM
Who you take out from this list of top 10 candidates to make room for him?

Mikan / Russell / Wilt / West / Oscar Robertson /Dr J / Kareem / Moses Malone / Magic / Bird / Michael Jordan /Hakeem /Shaq / Duncan / Kobe

Now think that i have omited some names that some people could argue as top 10 candidates too .

So , the answer is still Lol.

any of those guys can be passed. I know what their stats are, I also know when they played.

Meaze_Gibson
01-04-2012, 01:16 PM
I think he will finish near top 20..Somewhere near Pippen if he gets 3 more rings. He will go down averaging more points than dirk, more steals, more blocks, better fg%. He's a better overall player than Dirk...Also if dallas won in 06 Jason Terry had more right to be Finals MVP than Dirk. IMO opinion he should fall somewhere near Dirk and Pippen.

CostanzaNumba0
01-04-2012, 01:17 PM
any of those guys can be passed. I know what their stats are, I also know when they played.

Sure, but not by Wade

quade36
01-04-2012, 01:21 PM
any of those guys can be passed. I know what their stats are, I also know when they played.

Is this just the NBA version of Dr. J. or does it also include ABA. Because if it does I don't think there is any way Wade will have a better career then him unless Wade goes on a tear the next 5 years.

Heatcheck
01-04-2012, 01:28 PM
Sure, but not by Wade

Look at the numbers, the only thing Kobe has on wade is 3pt% ft% and being on Superior teams therefore giving him more rings.

And how on earth is George Mikan a top ten of all time. thats like calling a model T better than a Aston Martin just because it came first.

tcav701
01-04-2012, 01:49 PM
I still am confused how a player that has never been considered the best during any season can be top 10

Meaze_Gibson
01-04-2012, 02:04 PM
I still am confused how a player that has never been considered the best during any season can be top 10

Jerry West has never won MVP and he's def top 10

mightybosstone
01-04-2012, 02:16 PM
Jerry West has never won MVP and he's def top 10

Definitely? No. Arguably? Certainly. But the more I look at West, the less convinced I am he belongs in the top 10. As much credit as he gets for being Mr. Clutch and being the logo of the NBA, he only won one ring despite multiple title opportunities and he played with Elgin Baylor and Wilt Chamberlain.

Statistically, West's resume is quite impressive, especially considering his play on the defensive side of the ball. But I have a hard time putting him ahead of MJ, Magic, Rusell, Kareem, Bird, Hakeem, Wilt, Duncan, Shaq or Kobe, who all won more titles and were more dominant players of their eras.

I'd put him right on the outside with guys like Oscar, Moses and Dr. J, which is right ahead of the group of Hondo, Barkley, Robinson, Malone, KG and Dirk.

Celts437
01-04-2012, 02:16 PM
Wade being in the top 5 out of the bes at his position ever is very arguable so top ten is a pretty ridiculous thought at moment. He'd have to pull some amazing things out of his butt for the rest of his career.... the whole topic is pointless at this point in his career, come back in about 6 years

Michael jordan
Kobe
George gervin
Reggie Miller
Ray Allen
Jerry West
Allen Iverson
Clyde Drexler
Havlicek
Joe Dumars
Oscar Robertson
Pete Maravich
Earl the pearl

EaglesJackson10
01-04-2012, 02:33 PM
I think he has a chance but the second option was definitely right so I went with that.

Heatcheck
01-04-2012, 02:38 PM
Wade being in the top 5 out of the bes at his position ever is very arguable so top ten is a pretty ridiculous thought at moment. He'd have to pull some amazing things out of his butt for the rest of his career.... the whole topic is pointless at this point in his career, come back in about 6 years

Michael jordan
Kobe
George gervin -
Reggie Miller - please
Ray Allen - 20 ppg, and not the all around player wade is
Jerry West -
Allen Iverson - as one dimensional as it gets
Clyde Drexler - 20 ppg (pretty close to wade all around though)
Havlicek - less ppg (20 to be exact) and shot 43%
Joe Dumars - 16 ppg
Oscar Robertson - a PG
Pete Maravich - not as good all around
Earl the pearl - averaged 18ppg career

Robertson was a PG, i guess you could make him a sg though, and the only ones on his level on that list are MJ, west, and Kobe. everyone else (except gervin) is a 20 ppg scorer at best dont shoot as high a percentage and cant do half the things wade does as far as rebounding assists and blocks (blocks shots better than most big men in the nba)

nairb305
01-04-2012, 03:12 PM
Is Wade top 10? Not even close but lmao at people thinking Dirk should be ranked ahead of Wade on the all time list. What Wade does offensively and DEFENSIVELY is truly incredible... Dirk doesn't even know what defense is....

Celts437
01-04-2012, 03:19 PM
Robertson was a PG, i guess you could make him a sg though, and the only ones on his level on that list are MJ, west, and Kobe. everyone else (except gervin) is a 20 ppg scorer at best dont shoot as high a percentage and cant do half the things wade does as far as rebounding assists and blocks (blocks shots better than most big men in the nba)

Im not trying to downgrade how great of a player Dwade is and understand your point of view because he really is a fantastic player.Was just saying that there is an argument of whether he is top 5 all time at his position and there is. Although they all play the position each of those players brings something different to the table. Wade himself is very high up there on the all around for that position and may very well be top 5 because of his defense alone, but that being said i stated it as such and just listed the all time greats that came to my head as an argument against him being top 10 of all time.
Robertson is a tweener and many would list him as a shooting guard although his assist numbers say otherwise...he was just such an incredible player.

DeRozan10
01-04-2012, 03:27 PM
not even close to top 10

lavilevi23
01-04-2012, 03:30 PM
Wade being in the top 5 out of the bes at his position ever is very arguable so top ten is a pretty ridiculous thought at moment. He'd have to pull some amazing things out of his butt for the rest of his career.... the whole topic is pointless at this point in his career, come back in about 6 years

Michael jordan
Kobe
George gervin
Reggie Miller
Ray Allen
Jerry West
Allen Iverson
Clyde Drexler
Havlicek
Joe Dumars
Oscar Robertson
Pete Maravich
Earl the pearl

Wade is already at least top 4 behind MJ, Kobe and West. He will pass West.

Heatcheck
01-04-2012, 03:31 PM
Im not trying to downgrade how great of a player Dwade is and understand your point of view because he really is a fantastic player.Was just saying that there is an argument of whether he is top 5 all time at his position and there is. Although they all play the position each of those players brings something different to the table. Wade himself is very high up there on the all around for that position and may very well be top 5 because of his defense alone, but that being said i stated it as such and just listed the all time greats that came to my head as an argument against him being top 10 of all time.
Robertson is a tweener and many would list him as a shooting guard although his assist numbers say otherwise...he was just such an incredible player.

No no, i know you weren't trying to downgrade anything, and i agree there definitely IS an argument, but just saying that the only ones that are any competition to keep wade out of the top 5 are Kobe, West, Drexler, and maaaybe Gervin.

Heatcheck
01-04-2012, 03:33 PM
Wade is laready at lest top 4 behinf MJ, Kobe and West. He will pass West.

I think Robertson is second and without all those elite teams he was on, Kobe doesnt even have a case against wade.

lavilevi23
01-04-2012, 03:43 PM
I think Robertson is second and without all those elite teams he was on, Kobe doesnt even have a case against wade.

Robertson was a PG. So were A.I and Maravich from that list.

Hellcrooner
01-04-2012, 03:46 PM
Wade being in the top 5 out of the bes at his position ever is very arguable so top ten is a pretty ridiculous thought at moment. He'd have to pull some amazing things out of his butt for the rest of his career.... the whole topic is pointless at this point in his career, come back in about 6 years

Michael jordan
Kobe
George gervin
Reggie Miller
Ray Allen
Jerry West
Allen Iverson
Clyde Drexler
Havlicek
Joe Dumars
Oscar Robertson
Pete Maravich
Earl the pearl

no bussines in there.

Chuckers.

Hellcrooner
01-04-2012, 03:48 PM
any of those guys can be passed. I know what their stats are, I also know when they played.

Good you remove them, and there are still 12 names on the list, no room for wade.

Heatcheck
01-04-2012, 03:48 PM
Robertson was a PG. So were A.I and Maravich from that list.

thats what i thought, butlike the guy up top said, he could be considered a tweener, cuz he played the 1,2,3, and 4. And there was nothing PG abaout Maravich or A.I. ( especially A.i.). as a matter of fact, I think they moved him to the 2 officially when the picked up snow. he was a pg early on because of his height.

utl768
01-04-2012, 03:59 PM
i love wade but no

Getting UGGLA
01-04-2012, 04:15 PM
Wade, Bosh and James, one hell of a team:

http://tinyurl.com/77t5szq

Supreme LA
01-04-2012, 05:15 PM
I think Robertson is second and without all those elite teams he was on, Kobe doesnt even have a case against wade.

Lol okay :facepalm:

Heatcheck
01-04-2012, 05:25 PM
thats the only thing laker fans can do, Lol and facepalm.

The fact is Wade does everything better than Kobe except shoot 3's and fts. He averages more points per game while shooting a higher %, gets more boards, assists, steals, blocks, has him in all the advanced stats, and has a better fg% on game winning shots (http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm) while making only 3 less than him, and has arguably the best finals performance ever, as opposed to leading in almost all the negative ones such as missed fgs and worst fg% in the finals.

If it wasnt for the SQUADS he was on (having Shaq in his prime, and Gasol in his prime to go along with 2 other 7footers , HE WOULDNT HAVE A CASE.

flips333
01-04-2012, 05:31 PM
Let's see here. Jordan, then in no particular order, Chamberlin, Dr J, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Hakeem, Russell. Never gonna be better than those 8. So if he ends up better than Bryant or James for his career then he's got a shot. Till Rose knocks him out.

Heatcheck
01-04-2012, 05:35 PM
Let's see here. Jordan, then in no particular order, Chamberlin, Dr J, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Hakeem, Russell. Never gonna be better than those 8. So if he ends up better than Bryant or James for his career then he's got a shot. Till Rose knocks him out.

I think Duncan and Robertson will more than likely beat him out for those last 2 spots. But Rose? what has rose done to make you think he'll be better than wade, except shoot like 29% in the ECF.

rhymeratic
01-04-2012, 05:48 PM
I gotta do this because this thread is getting out of control. How the hell can you say D-Wade top 10 all-time when he's barely top 20 at his position. Keep in mind this list is NOT in order and some he might be an equal/slightly better than when his career is done but right now off the top of my head... BTW it's clear that some of you guys posting are young and some of us are a little bit older and some of us are basketball junkies... so JUST OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD AND A LITTLE BIT OF GOOGLE....


Michael Jordan
Kobe Bryant
Mitch Richmond
Clyde Drexler
Vince Carter
Ray Allen
Dale Ellis
Pete Maravich
Oscar Robertson
Gail Goodrich
Dave Bing
Jerry West
Elgin Baylor
George Gervin
John Havlicek
Allen Iverson
Penny Hardaway (in his prime years)
T-Mac (in his prime years)

That's approximately 18 players that I would classify as being better than or equal to D-Wade. 18!!!!!!!!!!! and that's at his OWN position of SG more or less. So once again... he's BARELY top 20 at his position, how the hell he a top 10 all-time great.... Jesus.

The only All-Time great player on that team is Lebron and whether you classify Lebron as a SG or really a SF... he's still better than Wade even on his worst days playing out of position at SG.

Oh and keep in mind Wade's numbers are inflated in this era due to hand-check rules. Had he played in the 90's he would have broken down like he's already shown during his era but in a worse way and put up LESSER numbers.

Heatcheck
01-04-2012, 05:52 PM
I gotta do this because this thread is getting out of control. How the hell can you say D-Wade top 10 all-time when he's barely top 20 at his position. Keep in mind this list is NOT in order and some he might be an equal/slightly better than when his career is done but right now off the top of my head... BTW it's clear that some of you guys posting are young and some of us are a little bit older and some of us are basketball junkies... so JUST OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD AND A LITTLE BIT OF GOOGLE....


Michael Jordan
Kobe Bryant
Mitch Richmond
Clyde Drexler
Vince Carter
Ray Allen
Dale Ellis
Pete Maravich
Oscar Robinson
Gail Goodrich
Dave Bing
Jerry West
Elgin Baylor
George Gervin
John Havlicek
Allen Iverson
Penny Hardaway (in his prime years)
T-Mac (in his prime years)

That's approximately 18 players that I would classify as being better than or equal to D-Wade. 18!!!!!!!!!!! and that's at his OWN position of SG more or less. So once again... he's BARELY top 20 at his position, how the hell he a top 10 all-time great.... Jesus.

Are you high? half of these people are one dimensional as hell, your talking about someone who averages 25ppg 6ast and 5reb for his career shooting 48%. dale ellis? Ray allen? i dont care how old you say u are, that list is ridiculous.

rhymeratic
01-04-2012, 05:56 PM
Are you high? half of these people are one dimensional as hell, your talking about someone who averages 25ppg 6ast and 5reb for his career shooting 48%. dale ellis? Ray allen? i dont care how old you say u are, that list is ridiculous.

Are YOU high.... First of all D-Wade is a combo guard so lets get that out of the way first. 2nd, SG's can be lights out shooters, or slashers, or a little of both but the question becomes how elite/dominant were they in their era regardless of skill set.

I can't ever say for 1 season that Wade was the best player at his position in ANY YEAR he has been in the league.

In fact Ray Allen is a GREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAT example to use as a comparison. Here is a guy who NEVER got hurt during his career, played in what we all agree is the HARDER era to play the position in the 90's-early 2000's and when the rules changed you saw his numbers jump up exponentially due to the lax defensive rules on the perimeter. And even with all that being said.... Ray Allen has CONSISTENTLY been a dominant SG throughout his entire career.

He was always Jordan-lite and to disrespect him by considering him strictly a jump-shooter for his entire career is foolery. And even if you do so... he does it at an ELITE level that Wade wouldn't even be able to dream of doing.

Spridge 76
01-04-2012, 05:57 PM
Can't see it, he has never been consistantly the best player in his generation.
All the greats had stretches where they were the best in the NBA for a few years.

Heatcheck
01-04-2012, 06:01 PM
by the way, hand checking stopped in '94 meaning vince, AI, Ray, and Tmac were all drafted after it was made illegal. Jordan won three rings after that. but hey your right, a stick like d wade, who only weighs 220 would probably break down by then.

Heatcheck
01-04-2012, 06:04 PM
Are YOU high.... First of all D-Wade is a combo guard so lets get that out of the way first. 2nd, SG's can be lights out shooters, or slashers, or a little of both but the question becomes how elite/dominant were they in their era regardless of skill set.

I can't ever say for 1 season that Wade was the best player at his position in ANY YEAR he has been in the league.

In fact Ray Allen is a GREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAT example to use as a comparison. Here is a guy who NEVER got hurt during his career, played in what we all agree is the HARDER era to play the position in the 90's-early 2000's and when the rules changed you saw his numbers jump up exponentially due to the lax defensive rules on the perimeter. And even with all that being said.... Ray Allen has CONSISTENTLY been a dominant SG throughout his entire career.

He was always Jordan-lite and to disrespect him by considering him strictly a jump-shooter for his entire career is foolery. And even if you do so... he does it at an ELITE level that Wade wouldn't even be able to dream of doing.

first he got drafted in '96, 2 yrs after hand checking was made illegal, so i dont know what early 90s your talking about, let alone "harder" nba. and even with all that lights out crap, he still only averages 20 ppg, and cant defend or rebound worth a damn.

Its obvious you dont know your a.s.s.h.o.l.e from your elbow as far as basketball goes, stop embarrassing knicks fans and MAKING STUFF UP. the simple fact that you consider ray better than wade because he's a lights out shooter shows your ignorance.

rhymeratic
01-04-2012, 06:05 PM
by the way, hand checking stopped in '94 meaning vince, AI, Ray, and Tmac were all drafted after it was made illegal. Jordan won three rings after that. but hey your right, a stick like d wade, who only weighs 220 would probably break down by then.

Hand-checking
Illegal Defense rules

all of that added up to astronomical numbers by smaller/combo guards that otherwise wouldn't even have a career in the NBA.

PLEASE STOP the D-Wade All-time nonsense immediately. He just MIGHT end up being top 15 at his position someday but really... will NEVER be an all-time great.
He'll need at least 2-3 seasons of absolute DOMINATION of the league avg like 35ppg before we could even consider him.

Seriously... LEBRON is an All-Time Great. D-Wade is not. Bosh = Horace Grant

rhymeratic
01-04-2012, 06:06 PM
first he got drafted in '96, 2 yrs after hand checking was made illegal, so i dont know what early 90s your talking about, let alone "harder" nba. and even with all that lights out crap, he still only averages 20 ppg, and cant defend or rebound worth a damn.

Its obvious you dont know your a.s.s.h.o.l.e from your elbow as far as basketball goes, stop embarrassing knicks fans and making stuff up. the simple fact that you consider ray better than wade because he's a lights out shooter shows your ignorance.

Is this Pat Riley?

Heatcheck
01-04-2012, 06:09 PM
Hand-checking
Illegal Defense rules

all of that added up to astronomical numbers by smaller/combo guards that otherwise wouldn't even have a career in the NBA.

PLEASE STOP the D-Wade All-time nonsense immediately. He just MIGHT end up being top 15 at his position someday but really... will NEVER be an all-time great.
He'll need at least 2-3 seasons of absolute DOMINATION of the league avg like 35ppg before we could even consider him.

Seriously... LEBRON is an All-Time Great. D-Wade is not. Bosh = Horace Grant

WTF? yet you still give those players credit for having to play in an era they never played in.

Do you have any idea how many players have averaged 35ppg for 2-3 seasons?

mike_noodles
01-04-2012, 06:09 PM
No, he's not even top 5 of his generation, let getting into the best 10 ever.

Heatcheck
01-04-2012, 06:10 PM
Is this Pat Riley?

no, its someone who actually knows about basketball and doesnt talk out of his *** like he knows what he's saying, while making **** up to support his opinions.

rhymeratic
01-04-2012, 06:15 PM
@Heatcheck...

I'm not even gonna argue with you on that level. My list says it all bro. It's not to knock D-Wade... he's a good player and probable hall of famer but he is NOT a top 10 all-time player.

This is like the debate you'll get in the NFL when all these WR's start coming up for the hall. Your eyes won't lie... Amani Toomer put up solid numbers, same with Chad Ochocinco but NEITHER of them were Randy Moss... Calvin Johnson.... Larry Fitzgerald. And then even of those 3 WR's... only Randy Moss you could really say would be a top 10 all-time great player potentially.

Same rule applies for Basketball... when you look at D-Wade first though that comes to mind... very good... not all-time great.

When you think Kobe = All-time great. EASY

beliges
01-04-2012, 06:18 PM
Why is this even being discussed anymore? Wade is not a top 10 talent. Thats just how it is. He is a great player and one of the top 30-40 best players to ever play. No doubt about that, but top 10? He literally has no chance at being top 10. I mean who could he possibly replace in the top 10? It just wont happen.

rhymeratic
01-04-2012, 06:19 PM
Why is this even being discussed anymore? Wade is not a top 10 talent. Thats just how it is. He is a great player and one of the top 30-40 best players to ever play. No doubt about that, but top 10? He literally has no chance at being top 10. I mean who could he possibly replace in the top 10? It just wont happen.

Thank you

MTar786
01-04-2012, 06:20 PM
ive got these guys ahead of him

mj
kareem
magic
wilt
shaq
kobe
bird
hakeem
duncan
russel
lebron
west
and a couple others right now ahead of him.

you could put wade at number 12 for me when its all said and done.. and thats if he wins another finals mvp and 2 more titles. i think he will surpass west and 'the couple others' but i dont see him getting past number 12

setman2000
01-04-2012, 06:25 PM
Who cares - these ******** threads never end.

THE GIPPER
01-04-2012, 06:26 PM
I hate it when people say, "Maybe if he wins another ring." Rings dont make players better. For some reason basketball fans more than any other sport cant seem to understand that.

gattaca
01-04-2012, 06:37 PM
I REALLy doubt it. People who say yes are younger and probably didn't see Bird, Magic, Jordan, etc play. Wade is damn good, but the top 10? Who would he unseat? No. Only 1 or 2 players from each generation become top ten. This generation's is Kobe and LeBron (IF he wins some rings) in my opinion

gattaca
01-04-2012, 06:40 PM
I hate it when people say, "Maybe if he wins another ring." Rings dont make players better. For some reason basketball fans more than any other sport cant seem to understand that.

Totally disagree. To be top 10, you have to be a champ. I know he played awesome when the heat won, but that one ring is not enough to even come close to top 10.

The great players and the legends are seperated by rings and records

beliges
01-04-2012, 06:54 PM
I hate it when people say, "Maybe if he wins another ring." Rings dont make players better. For some reason basketball fans more than any other sport cant seem to understand that.

Ha! Actually theres nothing more important than winning. Its all about winning. And if you, as a player, can carry your team and lead them to a championship, that shows much more greatness than putting up good individual numbers. SO yes, of course Wade winning a few more titles will put him up on the all time list.

Heatcheck
01-04-2012, 07:02 PM
@Heatcheck...

I'm not even gonna argue with you on that level. My list says it all bro. It's not to knock D-Wade... he's a good player and probable hall of famer but he is NOT a top 10 all-time player.

This is like the debate you'll get in the NFL when all these WR's start coming up for the hall. Your eyes won't lie... Amani Toomer put up solid numbers, same with Chad Ochocinco but NEITHER of them were Randy Moss... Calvin Johnson.... Larry Fitzgerald. And then even of those 3 WR's... only Randy Moss you could really say would be a top 10 all-time great player potentially.

Same rule applies for Basketball... when you look at D-Wade first though that comes to mind... very good... not all-time great.

When you think Kobe = All-time great. EASY

buddy, you can have an opinion, the point is, you come on here talking down to people for their opinions making statements like "BTW it's clear that some of you guys posting are young and some of us are a little bit older and some of us are basketball junkies", but dont have your facts straight.
ray allen, Iverson, Kobe, TMac all these guys played after hand checking was illegal, but you give them credit for playing in th early 90s and in a "much tougher league".

One thing is to have an opinion (if you honestly believ Dale Ellis and Gail Goodrich were better than wade, thats fine, or that "small gaurds" like wade couldnt succeed in the same league as Zeke or jerry west (who were both much smaller, OK) but to talk down to people for not knowing theyre basketball when you go around making up facts to back your opinions is absurd.

MickeyMgl
01-04-2012, 07:03 PM
The fact is Wade does everything better than Kobe except shoot 3's and fts. He averages more points while shooting a higher %, gets more boards, assists, steals, blocks, has him in all the advanced stats, and has a better fg% on game winning shots (http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm) while making only 3 less than him, and has arguably the best finals performance ever, as opposed to leading in almost all the negative ones such as missed fgs and worst fg% in the finals.

Not sure if you are just comparing them right now, or overall in their careers. "Right now" is not as laugh out loud funny a comparison. Overall, though, throw in defense on Kobe's side, and I don't mean just steals. And all of this ignores the fact that Bryant plays through injury, while Wade (and Lebron, for that matter) jam a finger and let their teammates struggle without them for weeks while they preserve their stats.

Most people (fans, players, coaches) aren't buying Henry Abbott's and 82games' nonsense about how to measure clutchness, so all the stats about game-winning shots aren't going to really sway anybody, since how they define "clutch situations" is arbitrary and flawed, and they don't factor in demoralizingly bad teammates like Kwame Brown and Smush Parker. ("25-foot game-winner vs pass to an open Kwame under the basket to tie the game? Shoot the ball, Kobe.")

The "arguably best finals performance ever" occurred against the team with aruably the most dubious playoffs record in history, in what is arguably the weakest finals ever. Both finalists bounced in the first round a year later, an NBA first and only.



If it wasnt for the SQUADS he was on (having Shaq in his prime, and Gasol in his prime to go along with 2 other 7footers , HE WOULDNT HAVE A CASE.

LOL :facepalm:

You earned it.

You point to the presence of Shaq as if it only helps, conveniently ignoring what it does to the FG% of a slashing SG when the lane is clogged. Bryant's case may or may not rely as much on championships, while his individual numbers would UNDOUBTEDLY be more dominant, as they were when the Lakers were not contending.

As for Gasol... seriously? Who was he before he joined Bryant and the Lakers? A very good player. A one-time All-Star. Bryant did the heavy lifting. Nobody wins by themselves.

MickeyMgl
01-04-2012, 07:11 PM
Totally disagree. To be top 10, you have to be a champ. I know he played awesome when the heat won, but that one ring is not enough to even come close to top 10.

The great players and the legends are seperated by rings and records

It's not unreasonable to set that as one criteria, but it's way, way overblown nowadays, with people just counting championships to compare players.

MickeyMgl
01-04-2012, 07:14 PM
Ha! Actually theres nothing more important than winning. Its all about winning. And if you, as a player, can carry your team and lead them to a championship, that shows much more greatness than putting up good individual numbers.

Most championships don't involve one player "carrying his team to a championship", yet nowadays they're all treated that way. Championships mostly just show you the caliber of a TEAM.

Heatcheck
01-04-2012, 07:29 PM
Not sure if you are just comparing them right now, or overall in their careers. "Right now" is not as laugh out loud funny a comparison. Overall, though, throw in defense on Kobe's side, and I don't mean just steals. And all of this ignores the fact that Bryant plays through injury, while Wade (and Lebron, for that matter) jam a finger and let their teammates struggle without them for weeks while they preserve their stats.

Most people (fans, players, coaches) aren't buying Henry Abbott's and 82games' nonsense about how to measure clutchness, so all the stats about game-winning shots aren't going to really sway anybody, since how they define "clutch situations" is arbitrary and flawed, and they don't factor in demoralizingly bad teammates like Kwame Brown and Smush Parker. ("25-foot game-winner vs pass to an open Kwame under the basket to tie the game? Shoot the ball, Kobe.")

The "arguably best finals performance ever" occurred against the team with aruably the most dubious playoffs record in history, in what is arguably the weakest finals ever. Both finalists bounced in the first round a year later, an NBA first and only.



LOL :facepalm:

You earned it.

You point to the presence of Shaq as if it only helps, conveniently ignoring what it does to the FG% of a slashing SG when the lane is clogged. Bryant's case may or may not rely as much on championships, while his individual numbers would UNDOUBTEDLY be more dominant, as they were when the Lakers were not contending.

As for Gasol... seriously? Who was he before he joined Bryant and the Lakers? A very good player. A one-time All-Star. Bryant did the heavy lifting. Nobody wins by themselves.

Ill start off by saying this, you completely undervalue Gasol, who was a top three big man in the league, was 20 and 10 guy his whole career and one of the best passing bigmen in recent memory. couple him with 2 other 7footers in a league devoid of quality big men and its a matchup nightmare.

Shaq's presence in the lane opens up the rest of the floor, where kobe did most of his damage and became known for having the best mid-range jumper since jordan.

" Bryant plays through injury, while Wade (and Lebron, for that matter) jam a finger and let their teammates struggle without them for weeks while they preserve their stats." this comment is puzzling considering kobe has only played 3 full seasons in the league and one with 80. hes had seasons of 50, 65, 66, 66, and 68 games, and a couple in the low 70s.

I agree there is something more to defense than just steals an blocks, and as far as peremiter defense, id give kobe the nod.

but that game winner stuff, you see it the last couple of years even when they won the trophy and when he had shaq, especially the year they lost to the pistons. Kobe says F the offense and tries some ******** 25footer that backfires and his teamates have to clean up his mess.

And as far as the finals goes, they made it to the finals, they beat everyone else. dallas beat the spurs and suns, the heat beat "great" detroit pistons who people thought they would break the 72 win mark that year, and the best two teams met each other.

Ebbs
01-04-2012, 07:40 PM
What an awesome poll :laugh:

Wade has an outside shot., but it's distant.

beliges
01-04-2012, 08:00 PM
Most championships don't involve one player "carrying his team to a championship", yet nowadays they're all treated that way. Championships mostly just show you the caliber of a TEAM.

Championships are the ultimate measure of how an individual leads their team. Look, there are plenty of great teams out there in the league, yet its no coincidence that the greatest of the great players ALWAYS find ways to win the title. The best of the best have all done it. Russell, MJ, KAreem, Magic, Kobe, Bird, Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Wilt. Theyve all done it. It means nothing to put up great numbers and yet not translate that into wins. For me, having the ability to win is more telling than having the ability to score a lot of points, or get a lot of assists, etc...

kdspurman
01-04-2012, 08:00 PM
I REALLy doubt it. People who say yes are younger and probably didn't see Bird, Magic, Jordan, etc play. Wade is damn good, but the top 10? Who would he unseat? No. Only 1 or 2 players from each generation become top ten. This generation's is Kobe and LeBron (IF he wins some rings) in my opinion

LeBron before Duncan? Shaq?? :confused:

beliges
01-04-2012, 08:03 PM
Kobe, Shaq and Duncan are this generation's top 10 players of all time. Lebron has a shot to be this new generation's top 10 of all time, but hes gonna have to start winning at least a couple of titles before he can become part of that elite class.

kdspurman
01-04-2012, 08:49 PM
Kobe, Shaq and Duncan are this generation's top 10 players of all time. Lebron has a shot to be this new generation's top 10 of all time, but hes gonna have to start winning at least a couple of titles before he can become part of that elite class.

Yea really... To say LeBron and Kobe with no mention of Duncan or Shaq (I didn't say Shaq cause maybe he was considered 90's or whatever). But even that doesn't make sense. And LeBron even with a couple titles, it's like who do you move from the top 10 at that point?

MickeyMgl
01-04-2012, 09:09 PM
" Bryant plays through injury, while Wade (and Lebron, for that matter) jam a finger and let their teammates struggle without them for weeks while they preserve their stats." this comment is puzzling considering kobe has only played 3 full seasons in the league and one with 80. hes had seasons of 50, 65, 66, 66, and 68 games, and a couple in the low 70s.

Did you just list Bryant's 50-game 98-99 season to argue that he misses games? Do you know of any player that played more than 50 games that season? 'Cause that's all that was on the Lakers' schedule.

And you don't think the injuries he's managed to play through are worth noting? It's an achievement that he hasn't missed more games in recent seasons. He hasn't had a season below 70 games (73, actually) since the 04-05 season, despite some pretty significant injuries to important parts of his basketball-playing anatomy (knees... broken bones & torn ligaments in wrist/fingers on shooting hand) while others missed weeks for a jammed finger.

beliges
01-04-2012, 09:20 PM
Yea really... To say LeBron and Kobe with no mention of Duncan or Shaq (I didn't say Shaq cause maybe he was considered 90's or whatever). But even that doesn't make sense. And LeBron even with a couple titles, it's like who do you move from the top 10 at that point?

LBJ might pass Bird and Hakeem with 3 titles. But I just dont see him getting 4 or 5 titles to pass Shaq, Duncan or Kobe. LBJ with 3 titles will probably put him at 9 or 10. But I find it almost impossible for him to win anything more than 4 titles, which would be a requirement if he were to pass Shaq, Duncan, Kobe or Magic.

nairb305
01-04-2012, 11:41 PM
I gotta do this because this thread is getting out of control. How the hell can you say D-Wade top 10 all-time when he's barely top 20 at his position. Keep in mind this list is NOT in order and some he might be an equal/slightly better than when his career is done but right now off the top of my head... BTW it's clear that some of you guys posting are young and some of us are a little bit older and some of us are basketball junkies... so JUST OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD AND A LITTLE BIT OF GOOGLE....


Michael Jordan
Kobe Bryant
Mitch Richmond
Clyde Drexler
Vince Carter
Ray Allen
Dale Ellis
Pete Maravich
Oscar Robertson
Gail Goodrich
Dave Bing
Jerry West
Elgin Baylor
George Gervin
John Havlicek
Allen Iverson
Penny Hardaway (in his prime years)
T-Mac (in his prime years)

That's approximately 18 players that I would classify as being better than or equal to D-Wade. 18!!!!!!!!!!! and that's at his OWN position of SG more or less. So once again... he's BARELY top 20 at his position, how the hell he a top 10 all-time great.... Jesus.

The only All-Time great player on that team is Lebron and whether you classify Lebron as a SG or really a SF... he's still better than Wade even on his worst days playing out of position at SG.

Oh and keep in mind Wade's numbers are inflated in this era due to hand-check rules. Had he played in the 90's he would have broken down like he's already shown during his era but in a worse way and put up LESSER numbers.

Obvious troll is obvious....

rhymeratic
01-04-2012, 11:46 PM
Obvious troll is obvious....

Yeah I have 2500+ posts and you this is your 2nd... please if you're gonna hide behind another account to try and start trouble... be a little bit more original.

Underrated Wade
01-05-2012, 12:02 AM
Im going to say no. :( its sad but its the truth. However if wade was recognized more since his rookie season he may have gotten some more awards. Such as MIP and MVP in 2009. And if lebron didnt choke like he wasnt supposed to and averaged mayb 4 more pts wade could have had his 2nd finals mvp and mayb he would be top 20. But he is definetely top 50. Didnt psd have a poll on this and wade finished like 26th or something. Also wade is a driving slashing player. Once he loses his athleticism he wont be as successful as kobe right now. Kobe is also good at shooting so hes still able to put up good stats