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View Full Version : Is Deron Williams a franchise player?



nycericanguy
01-02-2012, 03:37 PM
Let me start off by saying I'm a Knicks fan, but I'm not a NJ hater, I've been following them as well since I have the YES network which broadcasts their games.

D-Will has not looked good, his numbers are not good at all.

PPG APG RPG PER
16.4 5.6 4.2 14.53

35% FG's.

Now its only been 5 games, but last year for NJ his numbers across the board tanked except for his assists.

15.0ppg 12.8apg 4.6rpg

34% FG's.

Did Jerry Sloan and the players around him in UTAH help Deron more than we thought? He has not looked like a superstar player at all in NJ. Would Melo have been a better player for them? It seems he would have been able to carry that team better.

thenetslegend
01-02-2012, 03:47 PM
usually, not currently. but nets are a bottom 3 team right now, doubtful melo would be playing his greatest in nj either. its a mess

Wade>You
01-02-2012, 03:49 PM
He hasn't been since he left Utah. So unless the franchise we're talking about is Utah, I can't say yes. Although I think he just needs to be more motivated and be surrounded by player(s) of his caliber.

itsripcity32
01-02-2012, 03:50 PM
is that why you added "rubio fan" to your sig?^^^

C-Style
01-02-2012, 03:54 PM
I think he would make a great second option.

bovice163
01-02-2012, 03:58 PM
I think he has regressed considerably, but you have to take into account just how bad the Nets actually are, particularly since he lost his #1 option in Lopez for extended minutes. He's definitely someone you can build around, but he is largely dependent on system and personnel. Deron thrived in Utah, largely because he and Boozer had such a great PnR game. He doesn't have anyone as skilled in NJ in that aspect, and he has taken a statistical hit because of that.

SportsAndrew25
01-02-2012, 04:04 PM
I would never view him as a Franchise Player considering what he did to Jerry Sloan in Utah.

nycericanguy
01-02-2012, 04:04 PM
I think he has regressed considerably, but you have to take into account just how bad the Nets actually are, particularly since he lost his #1 option in Lopez for extended minutes. He's definitely someone you can build around, but he is largely dependent on system and personnel. Deron thrived in Utah, largely because he and Boozer had such a great PnR game. He doesn't have anyone as skilled in NJ in that aspect, and he has taken a statistical hit because of that.

To me though a franchise player can be on a bad team and still carry them to at least respectability and compete for an 8th seed, which I thought NJ would be this year.

I was one that thought of D-Will as a top 10 NBA player and a top 3 PG, but I'm starting to reconsider. Maybe its just an extended slump, but his offense since coming to NJ has not been good, and his assist totals this year have plummeted.

thenetslegend
01-02-2012, 04:05 PM
is that why you added "rubio fan" to your sig?^^^

kind of

redhorse
01-02-2012, 04:15 PM
this guy is a beast man. I feel so bad for him because he has NOBODY and I mean NOBODY in this team that can help him. I think his performance has to do with his frustration.

Sportfan
01-02-2012, 04:18 PM
Not even a top 3 PG anymore IMO. Rose, Rondo have surpassed him, Westy could too if he picks it up

blastmasta26
01-02-2012, 04:18 PM
Depends, since the definition of "franchise player" is ambiguous. If you mean he can be the best player on a championship team, then I don't think so. But I think he can be a second option, so if you define someone like Amare or Westbrook as a franchise player, then Deron certainly is. But if it's limited to number one options, then I don't see him as one.

And also, many players have been struggling this year due to various factors to begin the season. I know that you mentioned last year's stats too, but just wanna put this in context.

imagesrdecievin
01-02-2012, 04:25 PM
I think he has regressed considerably, but you have to take into account just how bad the Nets actually are, particularly since he lost his #1 option in Lopez for extended minutes. He's definitely someone you can build around, but he is largely dependent on system and personnel. Deron thrived in Utah, largely because he and Boozer had such a great PnR game. He doesn't have anyone as skilled in NJ in that aspect, and he has taken a statistical hit because of that.

agreed.

The Nets 2nd scoring option is a rookie that's a late 1st round pick. Our third scoring option is ???

dhopisthename
01-02-2012, 04:27 PM
yes he is. the nets just don't have anything that resembles good talent. you can easily build a 50 win team around him

Young and Stupid
01-02-2012, 04:29 PM
Let me preface this by saying that I am a Nets fan and have watched part of every game this season (I've gone to two, free of charge) and most of the games Williams played in last season.

I have long thought Deron Williams to be a top-10 player. I will admit that I didn't watch him play much -- aside from his playoff games (I watched most of them) -- prior to him becoming a Net. However, based on statistical analysis, track record, league-wide perception and talking to Jazz fans, I was of the belief that Williams was an elite player. That opinion was bolstered by what Bill Simmons would call "The Sniff Test." When I watched him with the Olympic team and, more specifically, in his two All-Star games he appeared to be elite; as he performed well against other elite players.

Going into this season, I saw Deron Williams as the third-best point guard in the league; behind Chris Paul and Derrick Rose. The numbers would suggest that I make the same deduction.

Now, I am not saying that I no longer believe Williams to be an elite player, but I am a little perplexed by his performance. Yes, it's a small sample size and yes, the Nets' roster is depleted; however, if he is the elite player that we believe him to be, it would seem that he'd be able to elevate his performance and, in some sense, carry the team. Aside from a small stretch against the Washington Wizards, he has not done that. In fact, he hasn't even looked like the best player on the team. And that's saying something.

I won't say that my opinion of Williams has definitely changed, but I will admit that I'm beginning to question if he's truly an elite player. And that's just speaking strictly of on-court production. I'm neglecting what appears to be a troubling trend of poor body language (something I was warned about by Jazz fans) and an apparent lack of of leadership.

I hope that something's wrong -- either an injury he's hiding or something off-the-court -- because he's certainly not playing like I expected that he would. We'll see.

blastmasta26
01-02-2012, 04:30 PM
agreed.

The Nets 2nd scoring option is a rookie that's a late 1st round pick. Our third scoring option is ???
Yeah, Lopez's injury really hurt your team. No doubt Deron would be at least a little more efficient with Lopez down low.

NYsFinest
01-02-2012, 04:36 PM
Too early.... still a great PG, just frustrated with absolutely zero help.

nycericanguy
01-02-2012, 04:41 PM
Let me preface this by saying that I am a Nets fan and have watched part of every game this season (I've gone to two, free of charge) and most of the games Williams played in last season.

I have long thought Deron Williams to be a top-10 player. I will admit that I didn't watch him play much -- aside from his playoff games (I watched most of them) -- prior to him becoming a Net. However, based on statistical analysis, track record, league-wide perception and talking to Jazz fans, I was of the belief that Williams was an elite player. That opinion was bolstered by what Bill Simmons would call "The Sniff Test." When I watched him with the Olympic team and, more specifically, in his two All-Star games he appeared to be elite; as he performed well against other elite players.

Going into this season, I saw Deron Williams as the third-best point guard in the league; behind Chris Paul and Derrick Rose. The numbers would suggest that I make the same deduction.

Now, I am not saying that I no longer believe Williams to be an elite player, but I am a little perplexed by his performance. Yes, it's a small sample size and yes, the Nets' roster is depleted; however, if he is the elite player that we believe him to be, it would seem that he'd be able to elevate his performance and, in some sense, carry the team. Aside from a small stretch against the Washington Wizards, he has not done that. In fact, he hasn't even looked like the best player on the team. And that's saying something.

I won't say that my opinion of Williams has definitely changed, but I will admit that I'm beginning to question if he's truly an elite player. And that's just speaking strictly of on-court production. I'm neglecting what appears to be a troubling trend of poor body language (something I was warned about by Jazz fans) and an apparent lack of of leadership.

I hope that something's wrong -- either an injury he's hiding or something off-the-court -- because he's certainly not playing like I expected that he would. We'll see.

I was also very surprised to hear him come out and call out his teammates after 3 games, especially given his poor play. You're right, there are times and games when I say to myself "man, why isn't D-Will putting this team on his back and willing them to vistory". I know even the best players can't do it every game, but you have to think a guy like Melo would have willed NJ to victory a couple of times with a 40 point game or so.

xxplayerxx23
01-02-2012, 04:53 PM
Yes he is. If you watch the games he is getting doubled. Has nobody to pas the ball too. Is forced into taking a lot of shots. If lopez was healthy he would be a 20 and 10 guy. Still the third best pg in the game IMO

Slimsim
01-02-2012, 04:54 PM
Lack of motivation that's all

nycericanguy
01-02-2012, 04:55 PM
Yes he is. If you watch the games he is getting doubled. Has nobody to pas the ball too. Is forced into taking a lot of shots. If lopez was healthy he would be a 20 and 10 guy. Still the third best pg in the game IMO

It was only 15 games or so, but he did play with a healthy Brook and although his assists were high, his overall offensive numbers were not good. 15ppg on 34% shooting.

I thought it was an aberration or because of an injury, but its continued this year.

Not sure you can just blame it all on the loss of Brook, he simply hasn't been anywhere near the same player he was in UTAH.

thenetslegend
01-02-2012, 04:55 PM
Yes he is. If you watch the games he is getting doubled. Has nobody to pas the ball too. Is forced into taking a lot of shots. If lopez was healthy he would be a 20 and 10 guy. Still the third best pg in the game IMO

he also misses alot of wide open shots. the mixture of him playing poorly and no teammates is making him look worse than he normally is

xxplayerxx23
01-02-2012, 04:57 PM
It was only 15 games or so, but he did play with a healthy Brook and although his assists were high, his overall offensive numbers were not good. 15ppg on 34% shooting.

I thought it was an aberration or because of an injury, but its continued this year.

Not sure you can just blame it all on the loss of Brook, he simply hasn't been anywhere near the same player he was in UTAH.

He was playing with a sprained wrist. Healthy and with lopez he would avg 20 and 10. No offense to net fans but that team around him sucks, brooks is a one on one player very good BTW, and Morrow knocks down open shots. He has nobody to pass to he is trying to put it on his back but the team is just so bad.

xxplayerxx23
01-02-2012, 04:59 PM
he also misses alot of wide open shots. the mixture of him playing poorly and no teammates is making him look worse than he normally is

a lot of rusty play so far in the season. His teamates are the reason he looks bad. He will get going soon. Still a franshize player, Hope lopez comes back his numbers will improve drastictaly

Robbw241
01-02-2012, 04:59 PM
I wouldn't say he's regressed, but he's been real sloppy with his ball handling and decision making. Needs to take better care of the ball.

Also Johan Petro's inability to catch a pass right under the rim and do a simple layup has cost him like 2 assists per game on that alone.

NYtilIdie
01-02-2012, 05:18 PM
Let me preface this by saying that I am a Nets fan and have watched part of every game this season (I've gone to two, free of charge) and most of the games Williams played in last season.

I have long thought Deron Williams to be a top-10 player. I will admit that I didn't watch him play much -- aside from his playoff games (I watched most of them) -- prior to him becoming a Net. However, based on statistical analysis, track record, league-wide perception and talking to Jazz fans, I was of the belief that Williams was an elite player. That opinion was bolstered by what Bill Simmons would call "The Sniff Test." When I watched him with the Olympic team and, more specifically, in his two All-Star games he appeared to be elite; as he performed well against other elite players.

Going into this season, I saw Deron Williams as the third-best point guard in the league; behind Chris Paul and Derrick Rose. The numbers would suggest that I make the same deduction.

Now, I am not saying that I no longer believe Williams to be an elite player, but I am a little perplexed by his performance. Yes, it's a small sample size and yes, the Nets' roster is depleted; however, if he is the elite player that we believe him to be, it would seem that he'd be able to elevate his performance and, in some sense, carry the team. Aside from a small stretch against the Washington Wizards, he has not done that. In fact, he hasn't even looked like the best player on the team. And that's saying something.

I won't say that my opinion of Williams has definitely changed, but I will admit that I'm beginning to question if he's truly an elite player. And that's just speaking strictly of on-court production. I'm neglecting what appears to be a troubling trend of poor body language (something I was warned about by Jazz fans) and an apparent lack of of leadership.

I hope that something's wrong -- either an injury he's hiding or something off-the-court -- because he's certainly not playing like I expected that he would. We'll see.

My thoughts pretty much.

SeoulBeatz
01-02-2012, 05:27 PM
Let me start off by saying I'm a Knicks fan, but I'm not a NJ hater, I've been following them as well since I have the YES network which broadcasts their games.

D-Will has not looked good, his numbers are not good at all.

PPG APG RPG PER
16.4 5.6 4.2 14.53

35% FG's.

Now its only been 5 games, but last year for NJ his numbers across the board tanked except for his assists.

15.0ppg 12.8apg 4.6rpg

34% FG's.

Did Jerry Sloan and the players around him in UTAH help Deron more than we thought? He has not looked like a superstar player at all in NJ. Would Melo have been a better player for them? It seems he would have been able to carry that team better.

Those are elite good numbers for any point guard.

12.8 apg is nothing to scoff at, at all.

He is still a top 3 PG in this league. The nets are just garbage outside of Deron. Brook admitted he sucks at rebounding, the team is just a mess.

NYK4L
01-02-2012, 05:31 PM
He's just unhappy with his current team.

uprightciti
01-02-2012, 06:04 PM
no
he is a all star guard
not a super star
not a franchise player

nets need to trade the house
go after howard
or
get them j. smith and cousins

GhostfaceDrilla
01-02-2012, 06:22 PM
Would you have confidence in getting an assist when you pass the ball to Travis Outlaw, Sundiata Gaines, Jordan Farmer, etc...

Plus I'm sure he gets doubled many many times during games.

I bet he comes to Dallas next season and whether it is with us or another contender, I bet he averages 20/10 next season.

S-Dot
01-02-2012, 06:23 PM
Lack of motivation that's all
i agree

thenetslegend
01-02-2012, 06:31 PM
Would you have confidence in getting an assist when you pass the ball to Travis Outlaw, Sundiata Gaines, Jordan Farmer, etc...

Plus I'm sure he gets doubled many many times during games.

I bet he comes to Dallas next season and whether it is with us or another contender, I bet he averages 20/10 next season.

tragic outlol is playing with the kings

Cool007
01-02-2012, 06:44 PM
IMO, Franchise players don't need teammates to make them look good, but they actually make the players around them better than they actually are.

I think calling out his teammates, not helding himself accountable for himself playing terrible, no motivation to try and carry the team to atleast be fighting for a playoff spot, etc are just making him worse player.

He is definitely a star player but not a franchise player.

smood999
01-02-2012, 06:44 PM
ive said this for quite some time....there are certain players that can flat out carry teams...and u have to look beyond the stats....which is y i always ranked chris paul and derrick rose ahead of d wills...i just never saw that from him in utah...he had lots of great pieces...yes there were some games where he carried the team but he didnt have to do it often and never showed that he could do it for long stretches....and this is y also melo wouldve worked better for the nets...melo can carry a team for a long period of time...

also ive always had the argument that a great pg will never get u as far, just based on history, as a great wing player or a great big (this gets ur the furthest)...another reason y melo wouldve been better on the nets...not being biased cause i do think d wills however mightve been just as good of a fit on ny because of the pieces already in place...but a team like nj he has no shot, theyll be one of the worst in the league...

DeRozan10
01-02-2012, 06:54 PM
He is still a great player, and would be a great top 3 piece on a contending team

nycericanguy
01-02-2012, 06:54 PM
ive said this for quite some time....there are certain players that can flat out carry teams...and u have to look beyond the stats....which is y i always ranked chris paul and derrick rose ahead of d wills...i just never saw that from him in utah...he had lots of great pieces...yes there were some games where he carried the team but he didnt have to do it often and never showed that he could do it for long stretches....and this is y also melo wouldve worked better for the nets...melo can carry a team for a long period of time...

also ive always had the argument that a great pg will never get u as far, just based on history, as a great wing player or a great big (this gets ur the furthest)...another reason y melo wouldve been better on the nets...not being biased cause i do think d wills however mightve been just as good of a fit on ny because of the pieces already in place...but a team like nj he has no shot, theyll be one of the worst in the league...

yea that game 2 performance against BOS was memorable, one of the best playoff performances I have ever seen.

Melo was out there with 4 d-leaguers and almost willed NY to a victory on the road had Garnett not made that last second shot and had the refs not made those 2 bad calls.

I havent seen anything like that from DWill, i know his supporting cast sucks, but he hasnt made them any better.

DeRozan10
01-02-2012, 06:56 PM
NJ is doomed though. Williams will probably walk. So they give up Devin Harris, Derrick Favors(#3 overall), Enes Kanter(#3 overall), and probably another lottery pick this year (GS Warriors pick via NJ)

Fantastic deal by Utah

Rndy
01-02-2012, 06:57 PM
He can't do it himself he had very solid role players at one point in Utah. After the Bulls stole half of them they weren't really the same. Deron would be a great player to build around not sure he'll ever be a number one. But he does everything well.

HOZ THE KNICK
01-02-2012, 07:19 PM
when he goes to the mavericks next yr he will look like a franchise player again he's just playing with a bunch of scrubs .

thekmp211
01-02-2012, 07:20 PM
right now he's not playing like one. but defenses are throwing everything they can at him because they don't have to guard anyone else on the team. his supporting cast makes the 2005 lakers look deep.

Rndy
01-02-2012, 07:22 PM
when he goes to the mavericks next yr he will look like a franchise player again he's just playing with a bunch of scrubs .

Pretty much if he's on a team with Dirk or any other great pick and roll player he will dominate. I always felt Knicks should have gotten Deron instead of Melo. Amare was arguably the best pick and role player in the game with Nash. If he Had Deron he would get back to doing what he does best. Knicks don't really have that guy yet.

BklynKnicks3
01-02-2012, 08:10 PM
where are all the people who said dwill is better then Melo some of who are knicks fans smh clowns

BklynKnicks3
01-02-2012, 08:12 PM
Dwill coming home to dallas

iam brett favre
01-02-2012, 08:15 PM
Absolutely. He was amazing in Utah, my favorite player in the NBA

lvlheaded
01-02-2012, 08:19 PM
The Nets are awful, it cant be put all on D-Will. They have zero talent around him right now outside of Brooks and Lopez, whose hurt. They have to get him some help or he is gonna walk. They are just not good right now

Chill_Will_24
01-02-2012, 08:20 PM
So many things wrong with the Nets..

PG- Deron Williams who has not been shooting well and is getting doubled and trapped at every opportunity

SG- Morrow who cannot dribble and is worthless at everything except open 3s and not even that lately

SF- James who is young and has horrible hands. He cannot dribble and is just an energy guy

PF- Humphries who is a great rebounder but is not reliable on offense

C- Okur who is still getting acclimated to the new team in this mess of a season

Add to this that Morrow got benched in favor of Gaines running the point and moving Williams to SG. Tell me how idiotic that is. You have a top 3 PG and you wanna take the ball off of his hands and turn him into a jumpshooter? In favor of having Gaines who over dribbles and hogs the ball?

All this adds to a lot of turnovers and rushed shots and nobody in the lineup that can create their own shot outside of Deron

WAIT!! We do have someone... MarShon Brooks but Avery Johnson is doing his "tough love" thing and benching him as soon as he makes one rookie mistake SMH

We just need a better coach. Avery has horrible rotations and he doesnt have any play that isnt an iso.

NYMetros
01-02-2012, 08:20 PM
Franchise players don't let their teams be one of the 2 or 3 worst in the league. If that is what happens with the Nets then I won't consider him a franchise player anymore.

greg_ory_2005
01-02-2012, 08:33 PM
Franchise players don't let their teams be one of the 2 or 3 worst in the league. If that is what happens with the Nets then I won't consider him a franchise player anymore.

There's only so much you can do when you're playing with scrubs. :shrug:

NYMetros
01-02-2012, 08:37 PM
There's only so much you can do when you're playing with scrubs. :shrug:

Not saying he should make the playoffs or anything, but if he really is a "franchise" player he should at least be able to lift his team to the cusp of mediocrity.

thenetslegend
01-02-2012, 08:37 PM
Franchise players don't let their teams be one of the 2 or 3 worst in the league. If that is what happens with the Nets then I won't consider him a franchise player anymore.

dwyane wade says hi

waveycrockett
01-02-2012, 08:40 PM
dwyane wade says hi

That was at a time when the 5th seed in the east had a losing record. Things have changed in the Eastern Conference.

iam brett favre
01-02-2012, 08:42 PM
If you traded D-Will with any other player in the league, i still don't think they'd be a playoff team.

NYMetros
01-02-2012, 08:51 PM
dwyane wade says hi

He only started 49 games that year, a little over 50% on the season, incomplete.

mp3
01-02-2012, 08:55 PM
He only started 49 games that year, a little over 50% on the season, incomplete.

allen iverson says hi

thenetslegend
01-02-2012, 08:57 PM
He only started 49 games that year, a little over 50% on the season, incomplete.

true

NYMetros
01-02-2012, 08:59 PM
allen iverson says hi

Which year are you referring to? I don't know what season his team was one of the 2 or 3 worst in the NBA... :shrug:

mp3
01-02-2012, 09:01 PM
Which year are you referring to? I don't know what season his team was one of the 2 or 3 worst in the NBA... :shrug:

every single year he played lol. That guy had nothing

NYMetros
01-02-2012, 09:07 PM
every single year he played lol. That guy had nothing

He carried them to respectability though. His first 2 years his team was pretty bad, but he hadn't reached his prime yet so that doesn't count. He made the playoffs his 3rd year ('99) through 2003, in 2004 he only played 48 games so naturally his team sucked, made the playoffs again in 2005, was the 9 seed in 06, and he made the playoffs in 07 and 08 with Denver though now he was out of his prime and it was more Melo's team than AI's. Not quite sure what you're talking about... His team was never one of the worst in the league when he was considered in his prime.

THE MTL
01-02-2012, 10:36 PM
First off, who does he have on the Nets to help him. Deron Williams is a passing PG first and then gets his points (kinda the way Nash and Paul play). He has no one to pass the ball to therefore he is making poor decisions and doing too much shooting.

Give him Dwight Howard and you'll see the same Deron Williams from the Utah Jazz. I do think that Derrick Rose has passed him though, but certainly NOT rondo or anyone else.

blahblahyoutoo
01-02-2012, 11:04 PM
if cp3 is a franchise player, so is deron.

arkanian215
01-02-2012, 11:08 PM
I still think he's a top tier PG. It's just that the guys he's setting up are missing shots. When they miss shots, we fall further behind. When we fall further behind, Deron presses it and tries to score himself more often. The Nets after tonight will be the team with the lowest FG% in the league. That says something about the surrounding cast. They don't have any consistency on offense in terms of production. There is no complementary offensive piece to him. None. If you've watched the Nets this season, you'll see Anthony Morrow and Shawne Williams getting wide open 3pt shots and they'll just miss them. Morrow is one of the best in NBA history at 3pt %. Even counting this season, he's at 44%. He's shooting 33%. Shawne Williams has been a career 35% 3pt shooter. I think he has made 1 of 15 or something like that so far this season (a lot of them have been wide open corner 3pt attempts). Mix that in with zero post presence. We'll see what happens if/when Brook gets back.

Quick question, who is the Nets second best offensive weapon after Deron?

Becks2307
01-02-2012, 11:32 PM
If you traded D-Will with any other player in the league, i still don't think they'd be a playoff team.

LIES!

give lebron shooter like morrow, a rebounder like humphries, okur and lopez..nets would be at least a 5th seed guaranteed.

they wouldn't win anything come playoff time but they would easily be one of the better teams in the east with lebron

greg_ory_2005
01-03-2012, 01:09 AM
LIES!

give lebron shooter like morrow, a rebounder like humphries, okur and lopez..nets would be at least a 5th seed guaranteed.

they wouldn't win anything come playoff time but they would easily be one of the better teams in the east with lebron

Lopez is injured. He is pretty much the only other good player on the Nets. No way Lebron could make that a playoff team without Lopez, especially a 5th seed.

Chill_Will_24
01-03-2012, 01:19 AM
Lopez is injured. He is pretty much the only other good player on the Nets. No way Lebron could make that a playoff team without Lopez, especially a 5th seed.

Yes he could.. Lebron is unstoppable

D-Will4Prez
01-03-2012, 03:16 AM
Quick question, who is the Nets second best offensive weapon after Deron?

Morrow? :facepalm:


Lopez is injured. He is pretty much the only other good player on the Nets. No way Lebron could make that a playoff team without Lopez, especially a 5th seed.

Hell, he took the Cavs, a team that was the worst in the league after he left, to the finals...

Evolution23
01-03-2012, 03:20 AM
He needs help. No one except maybe Lebron can make that roster good, because they have straight up garbage aside from Deron.

Raps18-19 Champ
01-03-2012, 03:29 AM
The players he plays with are ****.

So it's no surprise he looks a bit bad.

shep33
01-03-2012, 03:30 AM
He needs help. No one except maybe Lebron can make that roster good, because they have straight up garbage aside from Deron.

I agree, a prime Kobe, Wade, and Lebron would make this team competitive. But the difference with them and Dwill is that these guys can almost guarantee you 30 a night and make your team better defensively, while putting pressure on the defense on every single possession.

That isn't to say Dwill isn't good, I think he's a top 2 pg in the league. However, he is a pass first player and needs someone who can score. I mean when Marshon Brooks is your team's best scorer, you have some problems.

abe_froman
01-03-2012, 03:35 AM
no.but that isnt to say he isnt a really great player though,he is....and agree with the sentiment in this thread that his struggles are because of his crappy teammates.the difference between franchise guy and just great is that they usually have the ability to overcome it,still be able to guide their teams to respectable records even with **** as teammates

lkingratedr
01-03-2012, 04:09 AM
Deron Williams is a top 10 pg in the league I would rank him even as high as 5 but ill say 6 or 7 dwills problem is the nets suck ... His best rebounded is Kim kardashians ex boy toy who can't put up 20 on a consistent basis a center that can score but can't rebound so now he basically hits the floor with one player and then who else ... Marshon brooks I can't even remember half of there names ... Dwill plus better players equals wins he was taking Utah to the playoffs every year ... He is a franchise player the other nets not so much

lkingratedr
01-03-2012, 04:12 AM
Lebron couldn't win with wade and bosh I doubt he would win with morrow and humpries

ClippersE.G
01-03-2012, 06:18 AM
it is obvious alot of yo have not seen his NJ team...he is out there with a bunch of D Leaguers its crazy

Rockice_8
01-03-2012, 10:23 AM
Of coarse he is. Can anybody tell me the second best player on the Nets right now?

Answer: Marshon Brooks

It's sad when your starting frontcourt is hurt and your second bets player is a rookie picked in the late first. He's facing double teams every time he touches the ball. He can't be expected to carry the scoring load (he's not a pure scorer) he's at best when he's creating for others and right now everyone around him can't finish with consistency.

Lopez is hurt
Hump is hurt
Morrow is ice cold from deep
and everyone else are bench players at best.

He's not in a position to succeed and is playing away from his strengths (playmaker).

Greet
01-03-2012, 10:30 AM
Everything raises when Brook comes back. It's the same thing that effected Lopez. Brook was our only scoring option so he would constantly see double teams and triple teams. Deron is seeing double and triple teams and when he kicks it out for wide open 3's, no one can hit their shots. Lopez gives them a low post presence and another great scoring option. The Nets second best player is Marshon Brooks right now, and he's just a rookie.

D-Will averaged 13 apg when playing with Lopez, and Lopez averaged 23 PPG when playing with Deron.


He's a franchise player, easily. I've followed him since he was in Illinois and drafted in 05' from Utah. He's been one of my favorite players for years, and now he's finally on my team.

oak2455
01-03-2012, 01:08 PM
yes he could.. Lebron is unstoppable

except in the 4th quater :d

LAKobeBryant
01-03-2012, 01:26 PM
yes he is no doubt he just had a bad start. he's proven that he is a franchise player

Becks2307
01-04-2012, 01:47 PM
Lebron couldn't win with wade and bosh I doubt he would win with morrow and humpries

no one said they would win it all but lebron could certainly take the nets to the playoffs, he did it with worse teams in cleveland early on

Punk
01-04-2012, 03:15 PM
Honestly, no bias when I say this...He isn't a franchise player. He's like a Bosh of the PG position. Helps you contend when he has other stars around him but on his own, can't get it done.

I think Chris Paul would have made the Nets a better team with the current roster. Deron isn't comfortable being a scorer, passer, rebounder, leader all in one.