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View Full Version : Hindsight on the Melo deal???



nycsports2
12-27-2011, 03:46 PM
Who got the better deal knicks or denver???

AtlantaFalcons
12-27-2011, 03:49 PM
Always said the Nuggets .. Knicks gave up way too much for a player they could have waited and signed in the offseason. Bad trade IMO I am glad that Denver robbed them for all they could.

thekmp211
12-27-2011, 03:50 PM
kim jung un.

Greet
12-27-2011, 03:51 PM
Denver got better when Melo left and the Knicks got worse when Melo came. I'll say Denver.

assisi805
12-27-2011, 03:52 PM
Tough call, But the fact that they could have simply waited and signed him and kept all those role players makes the knicks look kind of stupid.

effen5
12-27-2011, 03:52 PM
Denver,

That trade left the Knicks with too many holes and a weak bench. Should have just waited until the offseason where Melo was going to sign with the Knicks anyway.

koreancabbage
12-27-2011, 03:53 PM
obviously Denver. much well rounded team. nothing against Melo but New York gave up their whole team for Melo.

ManRam
12-27-2011, 03:53 PM
It was a good deal for both teams. I'm sure both would do it all over again even after a complete understanding of hindsight.

The Knicks knew they weren't instantly going to have a championship team, and of course they have holes...but no team ever goes from constant sub-.500 team to championship team after just one trade...them having holes now doesn't make it a bad trade. Those holes can be filled in easily over the next few off-seasons...

nycsports2
12-27-2011, 03:54 PM
do you think theyd be better with the current team or gallo chandler felton etc...

Dade County
12-27-2011, 03:54 PM
Always said the Nuggets .. Knicks gave up way too much for a player they could have waited and signed in the offseason. Bad trade IMO I am glad that Denver robbed them for all they could.

why are you happy about that...

NY got the better player, so they one.

Denver is not going to the WCF, Ny can actually get to the ECF, in about two years or so.

Cal827
12-27-2011, 03:56 PM
Denver.... It was obvious that he was going to leave at the end of the year... had he gone into free agency, I could almost guarantee the first article on PSD during the free agent period would be "Knicks Sign Melo to Max Deal".

Amar'e was leading that team pretty well at the time. I think that they would have stood a better chance against the Celtics if they kept the core.

Also, we all know hindsight is 20-20, but if they had kept those pieces, it would be easier to acquire other assets (Chandler/Galanari have good potential and they probably could have acquired good players at the other positions of need like Chris Paul).

NYsFinest
12-27-2011, 03:57 PM
Knicks by far....Role players are replaceable and the Nuggets have no championship hopes. Knicks also turned Billups into Tyson Chandler, had they kept all these role players, they wouldnt have money for Tyson. Now guys like Baron Davis are taking paycuts to round out the roster and the Knicks are a few minor pieces away from contending. If they get KMart in March and Iman turns out to be solid, then the bench wont be an issue either.

I love Gallo but he would never carry the Knicks to a win a few days ago the way Melo did.

MELO 15
12-27-2011, 03:58 PM
Denver got better when Melo left and the Knicks got worse when Melo came. I'll say Denver.
The nuggets essentialy kept all there rotational players, the knicks got rid of all there main players, so they in a sense had to start all over again to get familiar with each other, the nuggets really didnt have that problem because they were already familiar with each other

MTL_123
12-27-2011, 03:59 PM
Right now Denver no question they robbed the Knicks but like nxt season its gonna be the Knicks because they have 2 all stars

MELO 15
12-27-2011, 04:00 PM
Thats the reason for the regression on the knicks end

Slimsim
12-27-2011, 04:01 PM
Both teams did fairly well. I knew people underestimated our young talent. They are better than anything Utah got from NJ

uprightciti
12-27-2011, 04:03 PM
considering all the players that were traded and who remains on the teams now

Knicks trade: Felton, Mozgof, Gallo, Chandler and a 1st round 2014
for
Nuggets: Melo, Billups, Balkman, Williams, and Carter

Knicks that remain: Melo, Balkman
Nuggets: Gallo, Mozgof, (Chandler?)

Knicks are better off now

but...

Nuggets for the future

-Kobe24-TJ19-
12-27-2011, 04:06 PM
nuggets

Raph12
12-27-2011, 04:07 PM
Knicks got Melo, a star to pair with Stat and build around; Nuggets got Gallinari and Chandler, great young prospects with potential... Fair trade.

NYsFinest
12-27-2011, 04:08 PM
considering all the players that were traded and who remains on the teams now

Knicks trade: Felton, Mozgof, Gallo, Chandler and a 1st round 2014
for
Nuggets: Melo, Billups, Balkman, Williams, and Carter

Knicks that remain: Melo, Balkman
Nuggets: Gallo, Mozgof, (Chandler?)

Knicks are better off now

but...

Nuggets for the future

If Knicks don't give up all these assets in the trade they have no money for Tyson Chandler.

Tyson >>>> Mozgov
Melo >>>> Gallo

AtlantaFalcons
12-27-2011, 04:08 PM
why are you happy about that...

NY got the better player, so they one.

Denver is not going to the WCF, Ny can actually get to the ECF, in about two years or so.

well yea obviously .. but when you are losing your star player and arguably a top 10 player in the NBA you usually are unable to get great value in return for him. I think the Nuggets did a pretty good job stripping the Knicks of their roster.

smith&wesson
12-27-2011, 04:08 PM
i look at new yorks roster and im gonna go with the knicks. they will be contending for years in the east.

nycericanguy
12-27-2011, 04:08 PM
So many factors.

NY has holes, but had they kept Felton, Gallo & Chandler then they'd probably be stuck in the middle as a #6 seed and wouldn't have been able to sign Chandler nor would he have wanted to sign.

No one knows if Melo was willing to leave guaranteed money on the table so assuming they could have signed him outright is just speculation. Should they have taken that chance? Tough one.

DEN has a very good young, deep team. But Chandler & Felton are already gone, although Chandler will be restricted he doesn't seem like he wants to be there. Mozzy hasn't amounted to anything yet, he averaged 2ppg for DEN.

So DEN is going to be in a tough spot next year, do they pay Gallo big money and decide thats their team? Or do they try to turn their assets into a star player via trade? AFter paying Nene & AA DEN now has to pay Lawson & Gallo & Chandler if they try to keep him. After that they wont have cap space.

As of now it looks like this

DEN - Gallo, Andre Miller, Hamilton, & Mozzy. And of course Chandler in China.

NY - Melo & Chandler.

Slimsim
12-27-2011, 04:09 PM
Someone make a thread on which team got the better package between Utah, NO And denver I'm interested to see the results. also i would do it my self but my phone sucks

AtlantaFalcons
12-27-2011, 04:09 PM
Both teams did fairly well. I knew people underestimated our young talent. They are better than anything Utah got from NJ

Completely disagree .. not with the draft picks they got and Derrick Favors

NYsFinest
12-27-2011, 04:12 PM
Completely disagree .. not with the draft picks they got and Derrick Favors

Agreed, I think Favors breaks out this season. He could easily be a superstar one day.

Slimsim
12-27-2011, 04:14 PM
Completely disagree .. not with the draft picks they got and Derrick Favors

Denver got proven talent. Utah might have 2 bust in Favors and kantar

AtlantaFalcons
12-27-2011, 04:19 PM
Denver got proven talent. Utah might have 2 bust in Favors and kantar

Utah might have two stars in Favors and Kanter .. both of their ceilings are significantly than any one player that Denver got

Kashmir13579
12-27-2011, 04:21 PM
Why even make this thread. Its been one game.

shep33
12-27-2011, 04:22 PM
Good deal both ways. However, outside of Gallo and Mozzy, who is still on that Nuggets roster?

Felton got dealt so I guess his value got them Miller as a nice expiring along with a rook that still needs to find his way into the rotation.

Still good move, they look better even today, more so because Lawson, Afflalo and Nene get to have bigger roles I think

sep11ie
12-27-2011, 04:31 PM
Why even make this thread. Its been one game.

And 28 last year.

Nabeshin
12-27-2011, 04:38 PM
Wilson Chandler has come out and said that once the season ends in China he would be interested in re signing with NY. But as far as the deal goes I say it was about even. As felton & chandler were just rentals as was Billups.

smood999
12-27-2011, 04:48 PM
ive said this before and ill say it again...ppl that think the knicks gave up too much r not seeing the entire situation....everyone keeps saying we couldve just signed him in the offseason which may or may not have been true (according to melo he wouldve been traded to nj if the knicks had not put a trade together for him)

but with that said...to sign melo we wouldve had to give up chandlers rights among others to make it work with the cap....thats y my whole point with the trade was the only extra pieces we lost were gallo and randolph and of course the felton swap...and then to get chandler on top of that we wouldve had to dump another 14 mil in salary on top of that (billups was that by himself)...so most likely we prob would have had the same roster maybe plus or minus a piece but nothing drastic..

ny is a potential contender...den only has gallo and moz left and they may be good like a hawks team but they wont be contenders...ny will fill holes...also i think den will ultimately prove to be worse because of this trade...only time will tell

smood999
12-27-2011, 04:53 PM
Denver.... It was obvious that he was going to leave at the end of the year... had he gone into free agency, I could almost guarantee the first article on PSD during the free agent period would be "Knicks Sign Melo to Max Deal".

Amar'e was leading that team pretty well at the time. I think that they would have stood a better chance against the Celtics if they kept the core.
Also, we all know hindsight is 20-20, but if they had kept those pieces, it would be easier to acquire other assets (Chandler/Galanari have good potential and they probably could have acquired good players at the other positions of need like Chris Paul).

i hate to beat a dead horse but...for some reason its ignored that billups went down in game 1 amare in game 2...we pretty much only had melo....i dont understand y ppl ignore this...im sure ppl would make excuses for mia if they lost bosh alone let alone bosh and wade or bosh and lebron or lebron and wade...

LOOTERX9
12-27-2011, 05:02 PM
Denver aint winning no titles with the bunch of mediocre role players and with no star(melo) . So the KNICKS by far got the better of the deal. Denver is boring and has no shot at wcf or title,

KNICKS win this trade easily

Kashmir13579
12-27-2011, 05:05 PM
And 28 last year.

Those games don't count.

Kashmir13579
12-27-2011, 05:06 PM
i hate to beat a dead horse but...for some reason its ignored that billups went down in game 1 amare in game 2...we pretty much only had melo....i dont understand y ppl ignore this...im sure ppl would make excuses for mia if they lost bosh alone let alone bosh and wade or bosh and lebron or lebron and wade...


only ignorant posters ignore that we were missing two of our top 3 players. That series straight up didn't count.

KnicksR4Real
12-27-2011, 05:15 PM
Knicks won. They acquired by far the best player. Guys like Baron Davis and future people that are going to sign with the team are coming here for rings. That wouldn't happen if we kept the same roster.

LOOTERX9
12-27-2011, 05:17 PM
Knicks won. They acquired by far the best player. Guys like Baron Davis and future people that are going to sign with the team are coming here for rings. That wouldn't happen if we kept the same roster.


Plus no one cares about Denver. so it doesn't really matter

Evolution23
12-27-2011, 05:19 PM
Ignorant fans will say Denver because they think Melo would've signed with us in the offseason. People are so dumb on PSD, they believe anything that they hear.

The truth is both teams equally won in the trade. I'm sick of hearing people come out with the same old thread over and over.

Evolution23
12-27-2011, 05:22 PM
And 28 last year.

In the middle of the season with a completely different team. You really think that's enough time for a team to gel? It took Miami a whole season to gel together. Look how bad LA is struggeling right now with all their new players and new coach. You don't build a championship team over night. You should know better than that.

Smaxor5
12-27-2011, 05:25 PM
To everyone who thinks the knicks couldve just signed him at the end of the season....YOU'RE DUMB. You really think Melo was willing to leave ~20 million on the table to sign as a FA in an unsure labor environment that could possibly limit max contracts even further? He told the denver front office "Trade me now, or get nothing for me". So the Nuggets had to trade him which obviously decreases leverage. Since the whole league essentially knew this the Knicks had to outbid teams like the Lakers that could do: "package built around bynum". OR, the knicks at least THOUGHT they had to do this because of clever negotiating by Denver (big time tip of the cap to Denver front office). So just to absolutely assure they got him and didnt watch him go to the Lakers and win a ring they traded a bunch of role players for a top 10 SUPERSTAR.

Now that role players are practically flocking to the Knicks to join said superstar (this includes an actual star such as Tyson...Melo's presence on the team effecting Tysons decision to go to the Knicks can absolutley not be overlooked if you are analyzing this trade. Recruiting power must be included as well....can you really say it wasn't worth it in hindsight? I don't think so, at least not while none of the players traded have done anything yet. If one becomes a star (danillo said he will never become anything close to anthony in an interview), then this becomes a real argument

Evolution23
12-27-2011, 05:26 PM
To everyone who thinks the knicks couldve just signed him at the end of the season....YOU'RE DUMB. You really think Melo was willing to leave ~20 million on the table to sign as a FA in an unsure labor environment that could possibly limit max contracts even further? He told the denver front office "Trade me now, or get nothing for me". So the Nuggets had to trade him which obviously decreases leverage. Since the whole league essentially knew this the Knicks had to outbid teams like the Lakers that could do: "package built around bynum". OR, the knicks at least THOUGHT they had to do this because of clever negotiating by Denver (big time tip of the cap to Denver front office). So just to absolutely assure they got him and didnt watch him go to the Lakers and win a ring they traded a bunch of role players for a top 10 SUPERSTAR.

Now that role players are practically flocking to the Knicks to join said superstar (this includes an actual star such as Tyson...Melo's presence on the team effecting Tysons decision to go to the Knicks can absolutley not be overlooked if you are analyzing this trade. Recruiting power must be included as well....can you really say it wasn't worth it in hindsight? I don't think so, at least not while none of the players traded have done anything yet. If one becomes a star (danillo said he will never become anything close to anthony in an interview), then this becomes a real argument

:clap:

Rockice_8
12-27-2011, 05:32 PM
Hindsight isn't really far enough in yet but I think it was win win so far. I'd give the slight edge to NY since we all know Allstars can carry teams and NY now has two. DEN did do well for themselves since you never get fair value when trading a star.

mp3
12-27-2011, 05:34 PM
The Knicks won this trade and it's not even close. mozgov sucks and so does gallo.

TheNumber37
12-27-2011, 05:34 PM
Denver got the Better deal. But what we should really be asking ourselves is who is closer to a title. I think the Knicks do better this season and in the future so the REAL winners are the Knicks. The Nuggets did play well after Melo, but that was also with JR Smith, Kmart, and Wilson Chandler, who all might not come back. Ironically, the Knicks will pick up Kmart in time for playoffs.

Slimsim
12-27-2011, 05:44 PM
The Knicks won this trade and it's not even close. mozgov sucks and so does gallo.

:facepalm:

stoopboy45
12-27-2011, 05:50 PM
Tough call, But the fact that they could have simply waited and signed him and kept all those role players makes the knicks look kind of stupid.

THAT IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE!!! Melo made it VERY clear to the Knicks and his agent that he WOULD NOT sign in the off season as a FA because he was not going to leave the money and years on the table he would loose as a FA. He told the Knicks "it is you or the Nets I'm not going to be a FA. I want you guys, but if you can't make it happen I going to the Nets." The only way he was coming here was via a trade!!!!

mp3
12-27-2011, 05:54 PM
:facepalm:

So the guy can shoot. Great. I'm sure you think iman shumpert will be good too.

nycsports2
12-27-2011, 06:02 PM
So the guy can shoot. Great. I'm sure you think iman shumpert will be good too.

i def think so lol

krazyfan2000
12-27-2011, 06:07 PM
I would have to disagree that Denver got the better of the deal. Felton is gone, Wilson Chandler is in China and Mozgov is trash so basically the only thing they have to show for the Melo deal is Gallinari.. Besides if they didn't make the trade Carmelo would have signed that extension with the Nets..

Go_NUGGETS
12-27-2011, 06:08 PM
Denver won.

AtlantaFalcons
12-27-2011, 06:08 PM
THAT IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE!!! Melo made it VERY clear to the Knicks and his agent that he WOULD NOT sign in the off season as a FA because he was not going to leave the money and years on the table he would loose as a FA. He told the Knicks "it is you or the Nets I'm not going to be a FA. I want you guys, but if you can't make it happen I going to the Nets." The only way he was coming here was via a trade!!!!

oh really .. source?

Go_NUGGETS
12-27-2011, 06:11 PM
I would have to disagree that Denver got the better of the deal. Felton is gone, Wilson Chandler is in China and Mozgov is trash so basically the only thing they have to show for the Melo deal is Gallinari.. Besides if they didn't make the trade Carmelo would have signed that extension with the Nets..

We traded Felton for Andre Miller smart guy! And the way Miller has displayed his game playing recently, we not missing Felton.


And Carmelo has actually indicated that he would've signed back with the Nuggets, from some of the "long ago" interviews post-trade...He was trying to force them to make a move to bring more help for him, but instead they traded him.

nystandup
12-27-2011, 06:19 PM
We traded Felton for Andre Miller smart guy! And the way Miller has displayed his game playing recently, we not missing Felton.


And Carmelo has actually indicated that he would've signed back with the Nuggets, from some of the "long ago" interviews post-trade...He was trying to force them to make a move to bring more help for him, but instead they traded him.

No offense but you really think he would have resigned with the Nuggets after all of that? Melo used the Nets as leverage for a deal with the Knicks and it worked. The Knicks gutted their team for him but it was well worth it from the Knicks persepective because now we have Tyson Chandler.

tr3ymill3r
12-27-2011, 06:24 PM
The only reason why people bring this up is because everyone is certain he would have signed with the Knicks. IF he ultimately did sign with the Knicks they would have had plenty to trade for CP3 at that point.

mp3
12-27-2011, 06:26 PM
i def think so lol

I'm sure you do think he's going to be good just like you probably thought Jordan Hill, Renaldo Balkman, and Channing Frye would be too.

Go_NUGGETS
12-27-2011, 06:27 PM
No offense but you really think he would have resigned with the Nuggets after all of that? Melo used the Nets as leverage for a deal with the Knicks and it worked. The Knicks gutted their team for him but it was well worth it from the Knicks persepective because now we have Tyson Chandler.

I'm not thinking...A lot of the older interviews I read in the past, showed reasoning for him not re-signing with us.


Forever, Melo complained about not having enough help, and tried to force the Nuggets FO to make a move to bring in another star....Nuggets couldn't, so instead Nuggets made a move, and moved him.

nystandup
12-27-2011, 06:28 PM
The only reason why people bring this up is because everyone is certain he would have signed with the Knicks. IF he ultimately did sign with the Knicks they would have had plenty to trade for CP3 at that point.

I thought this was old news...

because of the uncertainty of the CBA he was forcing a trade. If there was no CBA issue he would have been able to sign with the Knicks in the offseason

but he didnt know if he signed as a free agent if he would be making less money so he forced the trade.

beasted86
12-27-2011, 06:28 PM
:facepalm:


So the guy can shoot. Great. I'm sure you think iman shumpert will be good too.

Ignore the delusional Knick fan comments.

That same guy said Iman Shumpert was already easily better than anyone on the HEAT bench including Haslem and Battier. And, no, he wasn't joking or kidding, or giving simple fan rivalry taunts. He was actually serious.

itsripcity32
12-27-2011, 06:34 PM
Definitely not the Knicks.

nycsports2
12-27-2011, 06:42 PM
I'm sure you do think he's going to be good just like you probably thought Jordan Hill, Renaldo Balkman, and Channing Frye would be too.

actually i didnt think any of them would.... i do like balkman though hes always stoned and he hustles like crazy

king4day
12-27-2011, 06:43 PM
Denver will always be the winner since NY had 100% leverage and failed to use it.
That said, if the Nuggets don't resign Chandler, then the only player of true value they received would be Gallo. Mozgov is good but the jury is still out on him.

latinofire21
12-27-2011, 06:48 PM
I think its the Knicks for a couple of reasons

The guys we gave up were

Gallinari
Chandler
Felton
Mosgov
Eddy Curry
Anthony Randolph

The guys we got back were
Corey Brewer
Carmelo Anthony
Anthony OG Carter
Sheldon Williams
Renaldo Balkman
Chauncey Billups

We let go of Brewer because he wanted minutes immediately so hes a wash. We didnt resign Sheldon Williams, and Anthony Carter so thats a wash.

We used Chauncey Billups to acquire the defensive anchor for the World Champions, Tyson Chandler. We were also able to get Baron Davis to sign for peanuts because of Melo, Amare, and Tyson being here.

Nuggets traded Felton for Andre Miller. Wilson Chandler is stuck in China and has already been talking about joining other teams. Most likely scenario is he does a 1 year deal to become a unrestricted free agent next season.

So after all the trades done the teams look like this:

Knicks
Carmelo Anthony
Renaldo Balkman
Tyson Chandler
Baron Davis

Denver
Andre Miller
Danillo Gallinari
Wilson Chandler
Timofey Mosgov

I think this trade clearly favors the Knicks. WHat everyone is failing to realize is that every contender needs a core. The Knicks have that core now and have to just fill the holes. Those holes are being filled rapidly because everyone can see how strong our core is.

Denver lost their core and is just covering the core with a bunch of complimentary pieces. Denver has no real chance at winning a title in the near future while the Knicks are considered a contender in the East.

Anytime you have a chance to aquire a superstar for role players you pull the trigger.

nycericanguy
12-27-2011, 06:51 PM
Denver will always be the winner since NY had 100% leverage and failed to use it.
That said, if the Nuggets don't resign Chandler, then the only player of true value they received would be Gallo. Mozgov is good but the jury is still out on him.

I liked Mozgov, but the truth is as badly as we needed a center he could not even get off the bench for us. He had 1 great game but other than that he has done very little in the NBA. 2ppg for DEN last year, and 3ppg with NY.

thenetslegend
12-27-2011, 06:57 PM
knicks and its not even close, all they basically got was gallo

beasted86
12-27-2011, 07:01 PM
Equal trade for both teams.

Denver was a bottom 4 playoff team before the trade, and after the trade they were still just that... and with their core appear to be the same going forward.

Knicks were 1st round fast food before the trade, and after the trade got swept. I'm sure I'm going to incite a blood war flame fest, but I still think at the end of the day they could get KO'd in the first round if they meet a tough team that plays defense (Hawks, Pacers, Celtics).

So in the end neither team made significant progress IMO.

ayuntalo
12-27-2011, 07:02 PM
most redundant thread ever!

tp13baby
12-27-2011, 07:11 PM
I am just so happy that we traded Melo. the nuggets are a fun team to watch now. Before it was melo shooting and not playing defense. Knicks got the better player but i don't regret the trade because we are closer to being a championship team then we ever were with Anthony.

xxplayerxx23
12-27-2011, 07:16 PM
Even Trade, Knicks got billups and Melo
denver got Galo who could be really good and isnt bad at all now chandler felton and Mozgof. they have a well rounded team Knicks got there superstar and Billups. Even trade glad we did it

eman
12-27-2011, 07:18 PM
The trade helped both teams in my opinion, but not in the manner that most people think. Denver had a dysfunctional relationship with its star player, the fact that the team was built around Melo made the entire team dysfunctional. New York was chasing star power, that is why Isiah threw money hand over fist at every player from Starbury to Stevie Franchise. In Melo, New York got their star player and Denver was given a new outlook on the future free from all the expectations and disappointments that come from star potential. Of course Denver did give up a star and star power has the ability to draw other stars to it and being in New York doesn't hurt either. So in the end the Knicks might eventually realize their championship desires but it sure is refreshing here in Denver not to have to deal with the Melodrama or the KMart birthday parties with a death count or all of JR Smith's crazy antics and suddenly be able to believe in a team that cares about working hard and playing basketball. Of course we still have to deal with Tebowmania so it isn't all sunshine and roses.

xxplayerxx23
12-27-2011, 07:18 PM
Ignore the delusional Knick fan comments.

That same guy said Iman Shumpert was already easily better than anyone on the HEAT bench including Haslem and Battier. And, no, he wasn't joking or kidding, or giving simple fan rivalry taunts. He was actually serious.

Delusinoal fan for what? Is it wrong that galo isnt bad? He sucks huh? Shumpert has a chance to be really good he has talent. We cant say he is going to be good but its ok for heat fans to say norris cole is going to be really good? (which i think is true also) but not the point

setman2000
12-27-2011, 07:25 PM
Stats man Hollinger loves the Nuggets this year - picks them 2nd in the West:

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?t=680762

kmoneyjuice
12-27-2011, 07:26 PM
Denver / thread

beasted86
12-27-2011, 07:30 PM
Delusinoal fan for what? Is it wrong that galo isnt bad? He sucks huh? Shumpert has a chance to be really good he has talent. We cant say he is going to be good but its ok for heat fans to say norris cole is going to be really good? (which i think is true also) but not the point

Yes, there's no way around it as I see it. Saying Shumpert is already better than proven veterans is foolish. He didn't even give a precursor of "will be".

But as for Gallo, he is a very solid good player, but I recall Knick fans calling him the next Dirk and scoffing at Peja Stojakovic and Toni Kukoc comparisons.

SportsAndrew25
12-27-2011, 07:34 PM
I would say it is a solid deal for both teams and the Knicks now have Chandler which makes their D that much better.

nycericanguy
12-27-2011, 07:36 PM
Yes, there's no way around it as I see it. Saying Shumpert is already better than proven veterans is foolish. He didn't even give a precursor of "will be".

But as for Gallo, he is a very solid good player, but I recall Knick fans calling him the next Dirk and scoffing at Peja Stojakovic and Toni Kukoc comparisons.

and I recall many saying he was nothing but a role player and spot up shooter... whats your point?

Yes he drew Dirk comparisons early on, even from Dirk himself, but I don't recall anyone saying he was the next Dirk after we saw him for 2 years.

xxplayerxx23
12-27-2011, 07:44 PM
Yes, there's no way around it as I see it. Saying Shumpert is already better than proven veterans is foolish. He didn't even give a precursor of "will be".

But as for Gallo, he is a very solid good player, but I recall Knick fans calling him the next Dirk and scoffing at Peja Stojakovic and Toni Kukoc comparisons.

I agree, and I def was not one saying he is better then every heat bench player. I think cole and him could battle, Like both thoseguys. I think Galo still is getting better. He isnt dirk but IMO he will be better then Peja

beasted86
12-27-2011, 08:00 PM
I agree, and I def was not one saying he is better then every heat bench player. I think cole and him could battle, Like both thoseguys. I think Galo still is getting better. He isnt dirk but IMO he will be better then Peja

No, I get it.

My only point is there is a threshold where optimism start wandering into being delusional. Peja is one of the best shooters of all time and put up 17-24 PPG for like 10 years straight, at ridiculous accuracy. I clearly recall people scoffing at the notion that Gallo could only be as good as Peja as though he's some scrub, and posting their career numbers to age comparison trying to say Gallinari is already better than him because he started a year younger. :rolleyes:

BKLYNpigeon
12-27-2011, 08:05 PM
If the Knicks just waited for Melo to become a Free Agent, they would have finished the season the same way, swept in the 1st round of the playoffs.

they could have gotten Melo for nothing and have had a very deep bench. Blame Dolan not Walsh.

Captain Moroni
12-27-2011, 08:17 PM
Lets get something straight, hating a team is normal. I do it, we all do it. Reality and respect are something else. Just because you hate the NYK, does not mean you can't rspect them. Just because you dont believe they are the best team in the NBA doesn't mean you hate them. But it seems that every thread that has anything remotely to do with the Knicks turns out to be ridiculously biased on the negative side. This threadis no different.
I hate the Miami Heat. I cant stand LeBron James and I root for him/them to lose. That is sport. It is a normal reaction to being a fan of YOUR team. But, The Miami Heat are an awesome basketball team. leBron James is a top 3 talent in this league hands down no matter what I personally feel about him. I respect the Miami Heat. I am not a Bulls fan, but I respect them as one of the NBA's best teams. If I feel the Bulls overacheieved last season (And I do) it is what I really think, not just spewing insult. I still greatly respect them and their lock down defensive approach. You root against the teams in your conference as you fight for playoff positioning. No one wants to face Miami, Boston, Cicago, or New York in the first round.

To say the Nuggets got the best of this trade is just silly. Look at the facts...

1. Carmelo Anthony was getting traded and he was getting an extension NO MATTER WHAT. He said that over and over again. he wanted NY but would go to brooklyn if NY did not work out. He wanted his extension BEFORE the new CBA and pending lockout happened. Denver liked NJ offer more, but settled for what NY had to offer.

2. Knicks also recieved Chauncy Billups. Since niether team was going to win a championship last year before of after the trade, it does not matter what they got then, it's what they have now to show for the trade. Denver has Mozgov, a bench player who is a FA after this season. They have Gallo, who all knicks fans loved, but is as streaky as they come. 25 points one night, 5 points the next. Miller (For Felton) and a pick.
NY has Carmelo Anthony, a bonafide superstar who as we all saw Christmas night is the "X" factor in closing out a win. The combo of Stat and Melo is exactly what the Knicks and their fans have been waiting for since Ewing and Houston. NY also used Billups to get Tyson Chandler. Funny how all the haters kept saying we didn't have the room for CP3 and then when we go get Chandler, they say nothing. So in reality, The Knicks got Melo AND Chandler for the denver trade. And melo/Chandler are both signed for YEARS. Gallo is a free agent soon, Wilson Chandler is in China!, and he is the best player Denver recieved in the trade. With the full MLE next year, the Knicks will sign him back anyway. Renaldo Balkman is a key bench player in this rotation. The Losses of Anthony Carter et al mean nothing.
The combo of Chandler/MeloDavis in a month....what a sick lethal combination. A mix of star power, power, and veteran saavy. The Knicks are 4 times better than they were before the trade, and real Knicks fans know that.
The Knicks got far and away the best talent in this deal. The only players in the league I trade Melo for are LeBron, Rose, Wade, Kobe, Durrant, and maybe griffin. Certainly not Gallo/Miller/wilson Chandler

Vee-Rex
12-27-2011, 08:18 PM
lol @ making this thread after one game in the season where Melo did good.

Anyway, I think it was a trade that helped both teams tremendously. Denver got a lot of nice players, they just gotta find a little more identity. NY got the best player in the deal and are very close to being able to match talent with the Heat for the East.

Punk
12-27-2011, 08:18 PM
It was a win win for both teams in a way. The obviously got better BECAUSE they got a deeper bench and Gallinari can sometimes compensated for Melo's scoring once and awhile when motivated.

However, Chandler, Martin and Smith left which is a major blow and they got bailed out by Dallas by getting Fernandez and Brewer to compensate the loss of JR and Chandler.

Anyone who thinks Denver got the BETTER end is a moron. Compare Denver's roster with Carmelo last season and compare it after the trade and you will see they got a deeper bench and rotation of scorers unlike before Denver had to rely on Carmelo and Chauncey only as scoring options. They got back guys who turned into all sorts of scoring options which makes them a balanced team.

The Knicks got a superstar, the Nuggets got a balanced team. Both teams won.

However, The Knicks have a better shot at winning it all than Denver at the end of the day.

Captain Moroni
12-27-2011, 08:21 PM
If the Knicks just waited for Melo to become a Free Agent, they would have finished the season the same way, swept in the 1st round of the playoffs.

they could have gotten Melo for nothing and have had a very deep bench. Blame Dolan not Walsh.

This s where you are wrong. The Knicks did not have the $$ to "sign him in the offseason without creating more space. You forget that felton/Gallo/Chandler/Mozgov were all making money. The Knicks would have had to trade or drop 3 of them to sign Melo anyway. Chandler was restricted, but not all these players would have been on the Knicks bench. They would have been traded for Tyson Chandler. And we are back to what we currently have. New Orleans was not taking Gallo, felton, MozGov and Chandler in a sign and trade for CP3

Vee-Rex
12-27-2011, 08:23 PM
Captain Moroni, I actually disagree a bit with your post. Denver turned out really good. They're just 1 (mayyyybe 2) superstars away from being a championship contender. That may sound crazy but they CAN work with what they got, and they are way better than the worst teams in the league.

NY's current team is not gonna make it. They either need another superstar, or a few more support players to win a ring. It sucks but yeah, it's sort of what they would need to beat the Heat (and let's face it, unless the celtics get 10 years younger or the Bulls add another big piece, the Heat are not going to lose in the East).

All in all, I say it's a great deal for both teams.

nycericanguy
12-27-2011, 08:37 PM
Captain Moroni, I actually disagree a bit with your post. Denver turned out really good. They're just 1 (mayyyybe 2) superstars away from being a championship contender. That may sound crazy but they CAN work with what they got, and they are way better than the worst teams in the league.

NY's current team is not gonna make it. They either need another superstar, or a few more support players to win a ring. It sucks but yeah, it's sort of what they would need to beat the Heat (and let's face it, unless the celtics get 10 years younger or the Bulls add another big piece, the Heat are not going to lose in the East).

All in all, I say it's a great deal for both teams.

Superstars are not easy to find, pretty much every team would be a contender if you added 1 or 2 superstars, DEN won't be bad enough to draft one in the lottery, and they won't have enough cap space to sign one, trade is the only option or hope they get unbelievably lucky in the draft outside the lotto.

NY doesnt need 3 superstars, no team does. Finding a couple of role players is much easier than finding another Melo. You already see guys like Davis & Chandler wanting to come here, and NY didn't even have the MLE this year or they could have signed Crawford as well. NY by next summer should be a legit contender.

Not getting CP3 may have been the best move, they were able to get Chandler and can keep all their guys now and will have the MLE this summer which means Nash could come. As great as CP3 is... when you're trying to build a team

Chandler, Fields, Shumpert, Douglas, Davis, MLE, > CP3

010957
12-27-2011, 08:39 PM
why are you happy about that...

NY got the better player, so they one.

Denver is not going to the WCF, Ny can actually get to the ECF, in about two years or so.

I think you massively under estimate the denver nuggets. Most experts predict nuggets to be 2nd-6th best team in the nab this season. If you watched the nuggets destroy the macs even more than the heat did, you'd know how good denver is. but i'm not trying to base how good the nuggets are on one game, but we'll see...

Dankster
12-27-2011, 09:00 PM
No way should Gallo be compared to Peja who had a very nice career putting up big numbers for over 7/8 years straight. I think Gallo has the chance to be a much better all around player than Peja, but Pejas scoring ability is far better than Danilo. To his defense, he's only what 22 or 23?! He still has a ways to go....

As for the Nowitzki comparisons, many GM's were gulty for trying to materialize/predict the next Nowitzki with basically any white European player who entered the draft and had a decent jumpshot. Off the top of my head I remember Nikolai tskitishvili and Maciej Lampe (a former Knicks pick) to be Nowitzki clones, obviously they're not in the league anymore...

xxplayerxx23
12-27-2011, 09:18 PM
No, I get it.

My only point is there is a threshold where optimism start wandering into being delusional. Peja is one of the best shooters of all time and put up 17-24 PPG for like 10 years straight, at ridiculous accuracy. I clearly recall people scoffing at the notion that Gallo could only be as good as Peja as though he's some scrub, and posting their career numbers to age comparison trying to say Gallinari is already better than him because he started a year younger. :rolleyes:

every fan base has there dummies, I think galo will be better, At least I hope Even though he isnt a knick I still root for him

NYK4L
12-27-2011, 09:35 PM
NY... look at the teams today, denver did get quality players and they do have a lot of talent a (some in china), but this was a trade to set up for what they have today and are still working on, I think denver would a done that trade also.

waveycrockett
12-27-2011, 09:51 PM
Who did the Nuggets get from the Knicks that is playing a huge role for them? Their 3 best players are Lawson-Nene-Afflalo. They robbed the Knicks? For what exactly? Role players for a superstar? REALLY!!??!?

itsripcity32
12-27-2011, 09:59 PM
Knicks got robbbbbbbbed!

itsripcity32
12-27-2011, 10:00 PM
Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, mozgoz, young players = ROBBERY.

kobebabe
12-27-2011, 10:04 PM
Denver clearly raped knicks

KnicksR4Real
12-27-2011, 10:17 PM
Ignore the delusional Knick fan comments.

That same guy said Iman Shumpert was already easily better than anyone on the HEAT bench including Haslem and Battier. And, no, he wasn't joking or kidding, or giving simple fan rivalry taunts. He was actually serious.

This was over Gallinari, who is a good NBA player. And yea, better than anyone on the Heats bench. Look at his stats sped:facepalm:

NYkillaPriest
12-27-2011, 10:19 PM
The Knicks got the better end of the deal...yeah Denver got the deeper team..not so much with 3 of their players in China..yeah their only one superstar away from being a championship contender..but that's the problem, your not just going to come up on a Carmelo Anthony every day...The Knicks got arguably the most talented scorer in the league..maybe the most clutch player in the league..a good PG who turned into a stand in until they had a chance to improve their defense...and for those who say Denver got better in the trade and the Knicks got worse you need to quit watching ESPN and actually look stuff up for yourselves...the Knicks started off slow and picked up pace towards the end of the season..game before last Amare sat and Melo and Billups were limited we lost that game...Last game of the season Melo and Billups sat and we faced Chicago who made it clear that they were playing their starters all game long

The Knicks prior to the melo trade dont compare to the present Knicks as opposed to the Nuggets who have no star power but players who complement each other...time will tell but stars bring championships and Melo puts us closer to our goal than last years team did

BaddNewz
12-27-2011, 10:32 PM
I say the knicks...the nuggets currently only have two out of the four players they got from ny..then they turned billups into chandler...best front court in the league trumps gallo and mozgov...and rumor has it wilson chandler wants to come back to ny so if that happens its a no brainer who won

Litchris12
12-27-2011, 11:09 PM
I can't believe were still talking about this. It was even trade for me. I know the knicks gave alot of talent but we got CARMELO ANTHONY....HELLO. The knicks wanted to win now so when u want to win now you trade whoever on your team to make the team better. The knicks are a beast right now. They have the best frontline in the NBA.

Captain Moroni
12-27-2011, 11:11 PM
Captain Moroni, I actually disagree a bit with your post. Denver turned out really good. They're just 1 (mayyyybe 2) superstars away from being a championship contender. That may sound crazy but they CAN work with what they got, and they are way better than the worst teams in the league.

NY's current team is not gonna make it. They either need another superstar, or a few more support players to win a ring. It sucks but yeah, it's sort of what they would need to beat the Heat (and let's face it, unless the celtics get 10 years younger or the Bulls add another big piece, the Heat are not going to lose in the East).

All in all, I say it's a great deal for both teams.

I never said denver was even close to one of the worst teams in the league. But to say they are "a couple of superstars" away from being a championship contender??? Who isnt? Evey team in the league who is a below .500 team is 2 superstars away from being a contender.
The Knicks are not as good as the heat on paper, I agree. But new York has just as good a shot at beating them in the playoffs as Chicago, Boston, or orlando. Matchups are going to be the key, and NY is a huge matchup problem for almost everyone.
As a NYK fan do I think the Knicks will win the NBA championship in 2012? No I dont. Is it possible they could? Absolutely (See Mavericks/Dallas)

waveycrockett
12-27-2011, 11:25 PM
Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, mozgoz, young players = ROBBERY.

Young players? 2 of those guys should start in the league and are average starters at best. I wish my team was robbed like that

KnicksorBust
12-27-2011, 11:50 PM
I've never doubted it was the right move for the Knicks. They are a legit contender in the East now and it all started with the Melo trade. I don't know if I'm biased because I'm so close to this trade but I think Denver would have been better off looking for the next young All-Star rather than two very good players (Gallo/Chandler). If I'm a Hornets fan, I'm upset we lost Paul but future All-Star Eric Gordon will get me through the pain. I don't know if I can say the same for Nuggets fans. I love Gallo but Chandler's not even there and Mozgov may never pan out.

Knicks got the better end of the deal.

DR_1
12-28-2011, 12:01 AM
Stats man Hollinger loves the Nuggets this year - picks them 2nd in the West:

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?t=680762

:facepalm: Wow...smh

Hawkeye15
12-28-2011, 12:05 AM
well, both teams got what they wanted. But the Nuggets won that deal short term, easily.

Hawkeye15
12-28-2011, 12:06 AM
I've never doubted it was the right move for the Knicks. They are a legit contender in the East now and it all started with the Melo trade. I don't know if I'm biased because I'm so close to this trade but I think Denver would have been better off looking for the next young All-Star rather than two very good players (Gallo/Chandler). If I'm a Hornets fan, I'm upset we lost Paul but future All-Star Eric Gordon will get me through the pain. I don't know if I can say the same for Nuggets fans. I love Gallo but Chandler's not even there and Mozgov may never pan out.

Knicks got the better end of the deal.

I repsect you bro. But I have to ask, how on earth are the Knicks legit contenders this season?

NYY NYJ NYK
12-28-2011, 12:09 AM
The Knicks gave away couple of Role players and 2 above average players for a Top 10 player.

Yeah the Knicks got Robbed :rolleyes:

nycericanguy
12-28-2011, 12:17 AM
I repsect you bro. But I have to ask, how on earth are the Knicks legit contenders this season?

depends how you classify a contender. Is NY favored to win it all? Of course not. MIA is a heavy favorite this season and will be for the foreseeable future.

But then you have the 2nd tier group. NY should be 3-5 in the east this year. They have an outside shot at winning the title if Davis can be solid for them.

If NY isn't a contender then BOS, CHI, LAL, MEM, etc...aren't contenders either.

Although I'm careful to say NY hasn't proven anything yet, I do expect them to be right there around 40 wins at the end of the year.

tp13baby
12-28-2011, 12:22 AM
Since the Trade
Denver regular season 20-7
post season 1-4

NY Regular Season 15-14
Postseason 0-4

I may be crazy but with the west being down this year outside of OKC and possibly the Clippers, memphis and Lakers i really don't know who is better than Denver,

As for the knicks they are right behind Miami and are in the category of Chicago and Boston. Very similar in their respective conferences.

THE MTL
12-28-2011, 12:41 AM
Honestly, it was too big of a risk and as a Knick fan I would make that trade over and over again.

HOZ THE KNICK
12-28-2011, 12:50 AM
knicks by a land slide..

Captain Moroni
12-28-2011, 08:40 AM
I repsect you bro. But I have to ask, how on earth are the Knicks legit contenders this season?

What is a contender? A team that has a shot at contending for a championship. That would be every team that makes the playoffs. (see Knicks 1999).
A legit contender would be any team that falls into the top 4 spots in their respective conferences.
Who had the best record in the east last year? The bulls. They did not even get into the finals. Does that mean they were not legit contenders?
Hollinger, who I think is joke with his rankings had the mavericks ranked 7th going into the playoffs. That shows you that the so called experts are just as confounded as we are.
We have seen the Knicks play one game. Means nothing. And in no way am I suggesting it means NBA championship. But this team with Baron Davis at the point is a legit contender.

Captain Moroni
12-28-2011, 08:50 AM
Davis,shumpert,melo,stat,chandler? That is a pretty strong 5. And it moves Douglas, fields, bibby to the bench.
The Knicks got so much better because of this trade.
Believe me, real Bulls and Heat fans are not looking at the Knicks as an easy playoff matchup.

Blink
12-28-2011, 09:31 AM
Lol Bibby is garbage. There is a reason he picked up a few DNP's with the Heat. Even with poor pg play.

KnicksorBust
12-28-2011, 10:25 AM
I repsect you bro. But I have to ask, how on earth are the Knicks legit contenders this season?

Chandler, Amar'e, and Melo are one of the top 3 best frontlines in the NBA. We have plenty of scoring and shooting and Chandler will protect the rim. He was 3rd in DPOY voting and was the x-factor for the Mavs finally winning the title. Our only weakness is the back court and that could easily be resolved by signing Baron Davis. A lot of people given Baron a bad wrap for his chucking but at the end of the day he's a true point guard and very underrated. “Davis had the most valuable assists in the league last season, and it wasn’t even close. Among players with at least 300 assists, Davis’ average assist was worth .841 points, well ahead of the league average of .667. And lest you think that was all from having Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan slamming down dunks, consider that Davis’ assist value didn’t change at all after the trade to Cleveland. More than half of Davis’ assists were layups or dunks, according to Hoopdata.com, compared to the league average of 38 percent; conversely, only 26.3 percent of his dimes were “bad” assists that led to 2-pointers away from the basket.”

Mike D'Antoni turned Chris Duhon (for 1 year) and Ray Felton (for 2/3 of a year) into assist machines. Imagine what he could do with someone like Baron Davis. Davis has also always been an animal in the passing lanes and is a proven transition point guard. Our offense can get stagnant with Melo on the bench but with Davis-Amar'e running pick and rolls we'll be fine. We may not be the deepest team in the league right now but I'll take our top 7 healthy against any top 7. Fields is a role player in the truest sense of the word. He hustles, he rebounds, he doesn't force shots, and he passes. I see Douglas as a quality 6th man who can run an offense in a pinch but is also a good scorer/shooter and plays solid defense (unless it's against Rondo). I believe guys like Shumpert-Harrelson-Balkman can fill out the rotation. Plus we could get a vet ring chaser or two later in the season. With Melo carrying the offense, Amar'e as an elite #2, and then with a defensive anchor like Chandler the Knicks can matchup with any team in a 7 game series.

I look forward to hearing your rebuttal. :)

James Dolan
12-28-2011, 10:32 AM
We robbed Denver badly. :)

d nuggets fan
12-28-2011, 10:33 AM
This thread is a little early in my opinion, especially since some of the assets - draft choices havn't been used - and some of the players havn't fully developed, but ......

with that said.

NY got its superstar and Denver got a truck load of assets. Maybe one side or the other can declare a victory if they advance to the Finals, but neither team looks like this is the year. All the other hype is just that hype until one team or the other proves they can win with their respective decisions!!!

Good luck Knicks land. Good to see your team winning again.

P Styles
12-28-2011, 10:56 AM
The T-Wolves got the better of this one ;)

acehole
12-28-2011, 11:12 AM
I find this hilariously ironic..

when the whole melo-drama was going on, everyone claimed the Knicks players suck and we dont have enough to get melo blah blah

Soon as the trade went down, people saying we gave up too much. All of a sudden, our pieces were good enough and Denver "robbed" us.

In retrospect I do think we gave up too much. We gutted our entire team for a guy who we had a very high chance of signing in the offseason anyway. I wouldve really liked to keep atleast either Gallo or Will, I was also a big fan of Felton.

Im hoping knicks find a way to bring Will back to ny. I'd rather him over Kmart.

nyKnicks126
12-28-2011, 11:49 AM
Knicks. Role players, like someone said before, are replaceable.

Hawkeye15
12-28-2011, 10:58 PM
depends how you classify a contender. Is NY favored to win it all? Of course not. MIA is a heavy favorite this season and will be for the foreseeable future.

But then you have the 2nd tier group. NY should be 3-5 in the east this year. They have an outside shot at winning the title if Davis can be solid for them.

If NY isn't a contender then BOS, CHI, LAL, MEM, etc...aren't contenders either.

Although I'm careful to say NY hasn't proven anything yet, I do expect them to be right there around 40 wins at the end of the year.


I define a contender as a team that can make a case as being the champions when all is said and done. In any given year, there are maybe 3-4 teams that fit this description.


Original post by KnicksorBust


Chandler, Amar'e, and Melo are one of the top 3 best frontlines in the NBA.

Agreed.


We have plenty of scoring and shooting and Chandler will protect the rim. He was 3rd in DPOY voting and was the x-factor for the Mavs finally winning the title.

You have plenty of scoring in the starting lineup, in a shortened season. Let me first state, as I have in another thread, that the Knicks are MUCH better built for the playoffs than this shortened regular season. Their depth is going to hurt them bad this regular season, but with the spaced out schedule in the playoffs, they will be stronger.


Our only weakness is the back court and that could easily be resolved by signing Baron Davis.

You just lost Shumpert for the year. Baron will miss a ton of time with injuries, my opinion is speculation, but also a stronger possibility than Knicks fans who think he is the answer at PG. He misses games, isn't in shape, and will be killed by the jam packed schedule when he does play. Just a prediction, which Knicks fans are also using when telling me Baron Davis it the answer at PG.


A lot of people given Baron a bad wrap for his chucking but at the end of the day he's a true point guard and very underrated.

I think his game is fine, his body is not. He is going to miss the first 15 games, at least, and you know something else will come along. It just does with Davis.


“Davis had the most valuable assists in the league last season, and it wasn’t even close. Among players with at least 300 assists, Davis’ average assist was worth .841 points, well ahead of the league average of .667. And lest you think that was all from having Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan slamming down dunks, consider that Davis’ assist value didn’t change at all after the trade to Cleveland. More than half of Davis’ assists were layups or dunks, according to Hoopdata.com, compared to the league average of 38 percent; conversely, only 26.3 percent of his dimes were “bad” assists that led to 2-pointers away from the basket.”

Dude, I am very aware of a motivated, healthy Davis game. I just don't see him being that way this season. Too many games, not enough rest, and he is already hurt.


Mike D'Antoni turned Chris Duhon (for 1 year) and Ray Felton (for 2/3 of a year) into assist machines.

And they are pathetic defenders, as is every Mike D player. Phx had serious depth and specific defenders, the Knicks have none of this.


Imagine what he could do with someone like Baron Davis. Davis has also always been an animal in the passing lanes and is a proven transition point guard. Our offense can get stagnant with Melo on the bench but with Davis-Amar'e running pick and rolls we'll be fine.

Again, you are basing your predictions off a fully healthy Baron Davis to play stacked games per week, and be 100% going into the playoffs. I just don't know if you should cash that check. And you are still dying for depth at guard. Dying for it.


We may not be the deepest team in the league right now but I'll take our top 7 healthy against any top 7. Fields is a role player in the truest sense of the word. He hustles, he rebounds, he doesn't force shots, and he passes.

I like Fields. But I like Battier and Haslem more. I like the Bulls complete depth on both sides of the floor (deepest bench in the NBA last year).


I see Douglas as a quality 6th man who can run an offense in a pinch but is also a good scorer/shooter and plays solid defense (unless it's against Rondo).

Complete definition of a role player. Nothing special, not going to hurt you. But when Davis misses games (and he will, you know this), you now have a below average starter at PG, and brining up Chalmers, etc, doesn't fit, because they ask nothing of their PG.



I believe guys like Shumpert-Harrelson-Balkman can fill out the rotation.

Shumpert is gone for the season? No? Even so, he is a rookie. Harrelson and Balkman are role players, but not very good ones.


Plus we could get a vet ring chaser or two later in the season. With Melo carrying the offense, Amar'e as an elite #2, and then with a defensive anchor like Chandler the Knicks can matchup with any team in a 7 game series.

Again, Melo is a gifted player/scorer, but he is still a poor decision maker a ton of the time, hence why he is so overrated by both Knicks fans, and those who don't understand how to measure efficient scorers. Neither defend, and you have 2 guys willing to play defense in Chandler and Fields, with a coach who could care less about that side of the floor. Typically teams that finish in the 20's in defensive efficiency can only go so far. This is the definition of the Knicks.


I look forward to hearing your rebuttal. :)

Thanks man. I really respect you as a poster, you are one of the stronger posters here, no doubt.

Hawkeye15
12-28-2011, 11:02 PM
To the point of the thread, the Knicks gave up a TON to get Melo. Its as if they were outbidding themselves. The Nuggets are so deep right now. The Knicks could have kept a player at least.

KnicksorBust
12-29-2011, 11:25 AM
I define a contender as a team that can make a case as being the champions when all is said and done. In any given year, there are maybe 3-4 teams that fit this description.

Can you honestly tell me you would have put the Mavs on that 3-4 team list last year? :)



You have plenty of scoring in the starting lineup, in a shortened season. Let me first state, as I have in another thread, that the Knicks are MUCH better built for the playoffs than this shortened regular season. Their depth is going to hurt them bad this regular season, but with the spaced out schedule in the playoffs, they will be stronger.

I agree.



You just lost Shumpert for the year.


I heard and read 2-4 weeks. :confused: Please link me if you saw it changed to for the year.


Baron will miss a ton of time with injuries, my opinion is speculation, but also a stronger possibility than Knicks fans who think he is the answer at PG. He misses games, isn't in shape, and will be killed by the jam packed schedule when he does play. Just a prediction, which Knicks fans are also using when telling me Baron Davis it the answer at PG.I think his game is fine, his body is not. He is going to miss the first 15 games, at least, and you know something else will come along. It just does with Davis. Dude, I am very aware of a motivated, healthy Davis game. I just don't see him being that way this season. Too many games, not enough rest, and he is already hurt.

And they are pathetic defenders, as is every Mike D player. Phx had serious depth and specific defenders, the Knicks have none of this.


Again, you are basing your predictions off a fully healthy Baron Davis to play stacked games per week, and be 100% going into the playoffs. I just don't know if you should cash that check. And you are still dying for depth at guard. Dying for it.

We currently have on the roster Baron Davis, Iman Shumpert, Toney Douglas, Mike Bibby, and Landry Fields. That's an acceptable 5 man rotation at the guard spots imo. Baron and Iman should be back in a month and the other 3 are healthy and playing right now. We're dying for it RIGHT NOW (Hi Jeremy Lyn) but in a month I think we'll be fine again. 3 of them can shoot, 2 of them can drive, 2 of them can pass, 3 are hustle defenders.



I like Fields. But I like Battier and Haslem more. I like the Bulls complete depth on both sides of the floor (deepest bench in the NBA last year).



At this point I'm not really sure I'd take Battier over Fields. Haslem is still a quality 3rd big but Fields is improving and was doing a lot of ball handling yesterday and looked good. Battier is clearly sloping downward at this point his career and it started before this season.



Again, Melo is a gifted player/scorer, but he is still a poor decision maker a ton of the time, hence why he is so overrated by both Knicks fans, and those who don't understand how to measure efficient scorers. Neither defend, and you have 2 guys willing to play defense in Chandler and Fields, with a coach who could care less about that side of the floor. Typically teams that finish in the 20's in defensive efficiency can only go so far. This is the definition of the Knicks.



Thanks man. I really respect you as a poster, you are one of the stronger posters here, no doubt.

Don't underestimate the addition of Mike Woodson. We hired a defensive coordinator and got an elite defensive big man in one offseason. When Chandler is in we are a different team at that end of the floor. I could see us ending up somewhere middle of the pack and that can be good enough.

Slimsim
12-29-2011, 11:42 AM
To the point of the thread, the Knicks gave up a TON to get Melo. Its as if they were outbidding themselves. The Nuggets are so deep right now. The Knicks could have kept a player at least.

W. Chandler would had been nice

nycericanguy
12-29-2011, 11:47 AM
To the point of the thread, the Knicks gave up a TON to get Melo. Its as if they were outbidding themselves. The Nuggets are so deep right now. The Knicks could have kept a player at least.

Nuggets would have been a deep team regardless. They acquired Rudy & Brewer for nothing. Right now they have 2-3 rotation players that came via that trade and 1 starter. Gallo is the only knick that plays big minutes for them that came directly via the trade. Andre Miller came indirectly because of the trade. Mozzy plays 15mpg or so.

DEN's success has more to do with getting rid of Billups and allowing Lawson to start. Because Lawson is a flat out stud, he might average 20ppg for them, I see him play and he's just insanely fast.

rhymeratic
12-29-2011, 11:53 AM
Denver now... Knicks in the long-run.

Rentzias
12-29-2011, 12:08 PM
It's not all just players received performance vs. players traded away performance. The Nugs also trimmed $18 mil in the deal as well as getting, I believe, two trade exceptions, got draft picks and cash.

I don't see how this deal is bad for the Nuggets in the long run either.

utl768
12-29-2011, 12:09 PM
denver because they had no leverage and they still convinced the knicks to give up 3/4 of their team

if dolan was smart he woulda just waited till the offseason and signed melo outright

Bob_at_york
12-29-2011, 12:21 PM
Hindsight hasn't changed anything, Denver got the better end of the deal but it probably depends on if they get Wilson Chandler back when he comes back from China.

Sadds The Gr8
12-29-2011, 02:36 PM
Denver still got the better end of the deal.

Hawkeye15
12-29-2011, 03:19 PM
Can you honestly tell me you would have put the Mavs on that 3-4 team list last year? :)

The Knicks haven't been perennial 55+ wins a season that have gone deep into the playoffs for 8 years. The ONLY reason the Mavs weren't in that list is because they had years of complete collapses for no reason.




I agree.

For sure.




I heard and read 2-4 weeks. :confused: Please link me if you saw it changed to for the year.

I VM'ed you. I thought I heard torn ACL during the C's game, could have been my b. That helps a lot honestly, but depending on a rookie is tough.




We currently have on the roster Baron Davis, Iman Shumpert, Toney Douglas, Mike Bibby, and Landry Fields. That's an acceptable 5 man rotation at the guard spots imo. Baron and Iman should be back in a month and the other 3 are healthy and playing right now. We're dying for it RIGHT NOW (Hi Jeremy Lyn) but in a month I think we'll be fine again. 3 of them can shoot, 2 of them can drive, 2 of them can pass, 3 are hustle defenders.

Bibby sucks. Bad. Baron Davis just smells like a victim of too many games and bad hamstrings, quads, groins, whatever. You can't honestly be putting faith into Baron Davis at this point. Douglas is a role player who can hold it down. Fields is another guy who is a nice player, but not a big difference maker.

Basically, you will have to deal with Wade, Rondo, Rose, and you have nobody to counter them at all. Your roster can't experience any injuries compared to some other teams, ignoring the top 3 players.




At this point I'm not really sure I'd take Battier over Fields. Haslem is still a quality 3rd big but Fields is improving and was doing a lot of ball handling yesterday and looked good. Battier is clearly sloping downward at this point his career and it started before this season.

Battier's lessened role will again allow him to thrive. I will take the much more experience role players over the kids is all I am saying.




Don't underestimate the addition of Mike Woodson. We hired a defensive coordinator and got an elite defensive big man in one offseason. When Chandler is in we are a different team at that end of the floor. I could see us ending up somewhere middle of the pack and that can be good enough.

I loved the Woodson addition. But good luck trying to get Melo and Stat to transform into defenders magically, after not caring about it for 8 seasons or more.

Look, I need to close with this yet again. I think the Knicks are a tough out come playoff time if healthy. Games will be spaced out, so they can play Melo/Stat 40 minutes a game. They will enter the regular season not having HCA in any series imho. I just can't see them beating the Heat or Bulls. Not until they add an actual game changing guard. I know some will point to Chalmers/Norris here, as an example of a team that doesn't need one. But lets be honest. LeBron/Wade/Bosh, is MUCH stronger then Melo/Stat/Chandler.

Hawkeye15
12-29-2011, 03:20 PM
Nuggets would have been a deep team regardless. They acquired Rudy & Brewer for nothing. Right now they have 2-3 rotation players that came via that trade and 1 starter. Gallo is the only knick that plays big minutes for them that came directly via the trade. Andre Miller came indirectly because of the trade. Mozzy plays 15mpg or so.

DEN's success has more to do with getting rid of Billups and allowing Lawson to start. Because Lawson is a flat out stud, he might average 20ppg for them, I see him play and he's just insanely fast.

The Knicks lost that trade. Not that they should complain outright. Their goal was obviously not only to get Melo, but keep sending salary out. But they gave up way too much.

xxplayerxx23
12-29-2011, 05:56 PM
I wish we kept galo and gave them fields ;[

Lake_Show2416
12-29-2011, 07:03 PM
i dont understand how u can say Denver, they're a team thats now stuck in the middle of the pack, where their not good enough to win but too good to receive a highly rated prospect to help build their team.

Knicks r trying to build for a title & u do that with talented stars, not a hand full of role players. IMO the Knicks need 1 year to add depth & they become a legit championship threat

Hawkeye15
12-29-2011, 07:04 PM
i dont understand how u can say Denver, they're a team thats now stuck in the middle of the pack, where their not good enough to win but too good to receive a highly rated prospect.

Knicks r trying to build for a title & u do that with talented stars, not a hand full of role players. IMO the Knicks need 1 year to add depth & they become a legit championship threat

what were they with Melo? Best case round 2 and out. They now have a ton of young prospects with upside, going forward.

Lake_Show2416
12-29-2011, 07:50 PM
what were they with Melo? Best case round 2 and out. They now have a ton of young prospects with upside, going forward.

wut do u really expect when ur a superstar surround wit an aging Billups & nothin else... i wonder why he wanted to leave hmm lol

Hawkeye15
12-29-2011, 07:56 PM
wut do u really expect when ur a superstar surround wit an aging Billups & nothin else... i wonder why he wanted to leave hmm lol

Nothing else? See, this is why Melo is overrated. Denver actually had a good amount of talent around him. He is not Kobe, Durant, Dwight, LeBron, Wade, Dirk, or Paul. You can't win crap with him by far and away your best player. The Nuggets did have some depth. New York basically sent a ton of young talent away for a 2nd tier star. Its not as if they were getting Bron, or Dwight. 4 very good prospects (3 of which could start for over half the NBA), a 1st rounder, a 2nd rounder, and $3 million in cash for a 2nd tier star who was going to walk regardless, is as good of a deal as I have maybe seen for the situation Denver was in.

The Knicks should have held onto at least one of Gallo or Chandler, and even then the deal still looks great for Denver.

LOOTERX9
12-29-2011, 08:07 PM
Nothing else? See, this is why Melo is overrated. Denver actually had a good amount of talent around him. He is not Kobe, Durant, Dwight, LeBron, Wade, Dirk, or Paul. You can't win crap with him by far and away your best player. The Nuggets did have some depth. New York basically sent a ton of young talent away for a 2nd tier star. Its not as if they were getting Bron, or Dwight. 4 very good prospects (3 of which could start for over half the NBA), a 1st rounder, a 2nd rounder, and $3 million in cash for a 2nd tier star who was going to walk regardless, is as good of a deal as I have maybe seen for the situation Denver was in.

The Knicks should have held onto at least one of Gallo or Chandler, and even then the deal still looks great for Denver.



But what will denver ever win with the crap the knicks gave them? They are never winning a conf title so what's the point? The Knicks have star power now that can get them to a conf finals atleast. That's what melo did in denver in a tougher western conf. Lebron played in the weak *** eastern conf for years and struggled in playoffs. Lebron's cavs would not have made the playoffs half the time in the west while melo's team did every season

beasted86
12-29-2011, 08:13 PM
But what will denver ever win with the crap the knicks gave them? They are never winning a conf title so what's the point? The Knicks have star power now that can get them to a conf finals atleast. That's what melo did in denver in a tougher western conf. Lebron played in the weak *** eastern conf for years and struggled in playoffs. Lebron's cavs would not have made the playoffs half the time in the west while melo's team did every season

Where are you trying to go with that whole bolded part? Are you trying to say Carmelo is better than LeBron or has been more successful?

I'm not going to waste time going on a rant to disprove your opinion, but I just want to establish that's really the point you were trying to make... and even still I don't see how it helps you make whatever point you are trying to make. Actually.... what is your point?

Hawkeye15
12-29-2011, 08:16 PM
[/B]


But what will denver ever win with the crap the knicks gave them? They are never winning a conf title so what's the point? The Knicks have star power now that can get them to a conf finals atleast. That's what melo did in denver in a tougher western conf. Lebron played in the weak *** eastern conf for years and struggled in playoffs. Lebron's cavs would not have made the playoffs half the time in the west while melo's team did every season

if you consider Felton, Gallo, Chandler, Mozgov, and a 1st crap, not sure what to tell you brother.

By the way, your bolded part, along with your signature, shows you honestly have no understanding of the game of basketball. How did Denver do with the "crap" they got back for Melo? How did Cleveland do when LeBron left?

Hawkeye15
12-29-2011, 08:18 PM
Where are you trying to go with that whole bolded part? Are you trying to say Carmelo is better than LeBron or has been more successful?

I'm not going to waste time going on a rant to disprove your opinion, but I just want to establish that's really the point you were trying to make... and even still I don't see how it helps you make whatever point you are trying to make. Actually.... what is your point?

Do you care what his point is? Look at his sig. He is a LeBron hating troll. Move on.

LOOTERX9
12-29-2011, 08:37 PM
if you consider Felton, Gallo, Chandler, Mozgov, and a 1st crap, not sure what to tell you brother.

By the way, your bolded part, along with your signature, shows you honestly have no understanding of the game of basketball. How did Denver do with the "crap" they got back for Melo? How did Cleveland do when LeBron left?

Umm crap is what other teams fans called those knicks role players before knicks
were bout to trade for melo. All I heard here was that NY had no assets to get melo. But when they traded those mediocre role players then all of a sudden people here said they gave up too much. Which one is it? Gallo, felton , and chandler combined is crap compared to melo. Knicks were not going far with that cast of role players and amare as the only star

Lake_Show2416
12-29-2011, 08:41 PM
if you consider Felton, Gallo, Chandler, Mozgov, and a 1st crap, not sure what to tell you brother.

By the way, your bolded part, along with your signature, shows you honestly have no understanding of the game of basketball. How did Denver do with the "crap" they got back for Melo? How did Cleveland do when LeBron left?

:laugh2: Felton who was traded for an old hag, Mozgov is a maybe project & 2 role players, 1 of which is in China.......... Awesome! i'll take Melo any day over something that can be easily replaced

LOOTERX9
12-29-2011, 08:41 PM
Where are you trying to go with that whole bolded part? Are you trying to say Carmelo is better than LeBron or has been more successful?

I'm not going to waste time going on a rant to disprove your opinion, but I just want to establish that's really the point you were trying to make... and even still I don't see how it helps you make whatever point you are trying to make. Actually.... what is your point?


Lebron is a front runner that goes in a shell when things get tough. I don't want him leading my team in 4th qtr over melo. Lebron had 37 pts last night but relied on wade to take the last shot of the game:facepalm: Lebron is a front running fraud

Hawkeye15
12-29-2011, 08:42 PM
Umm crap is what other teams fans called those knicks role players before knicks
were bout to trade for melo. All I heard here was that NY had no assets to get melo. But when they traded those mediocre role players then all of a sudden people here said they gave up too much. Which one is it? Gallo, felton , and chandler combined is crap compared to melo. Knicks were not going far with that cast of role players and amare as the only star

Again, when you said Melo would have taken LeBron's Cavs roster deep, and LeBron wouldn't have done anything with Melo's roster, you lost all respect from me personally.

Later.

Hawkeye15
12-29-2011, 08:46 PM
:laugh2: Felton who was traded for an old hag, Mozgov is a maybe project & 2 role players, 1 of which is in China.......... Awesome! i'll take Melo any day over something that can be easily replaced

You have to look at it much differently. Denver wasn't going anywhere with Melo as their best player. They had a good roster around him, but Melo needs a 1a/b. The Nuggets didn't have this. May as well rebuild on the fly. Now, how do you rebuild? You get a ton of young players with upside, and picks. They got this. All for a 2nd tier star who doesn't play defense, and scores with average efficiency. Denver now has a ton of assets, and they finished 17-6 after that trade, because their depth was incredible. They now have assets to attract in a trade partner. They now have youth, to replace any bad deal going forward.

I just think its hilarious that anyone would think Denver didn't get a great haul for Carmelo Anthony. Here is a player who basically said, "trade me or I walk". Well they did, and they got a great haul.

SlimKid
12-29-2011, 08:46 PM
This thread is pretty funny.. To me this seems like an argument between people who rate Melo in the same category as Lebron or Wade, and people who view Melo honestly and realize he's not elite like the previous mentioned players.. Either way it's funny.. As of right now, I'd have to give the edge to Denver, but that's based on me not being a Melo fan.. I just don't get the admiration and never will..

LOOTERX9
12-29-2011, 08:46 PM
Again, when you said Melo would have taken LeBron's Cavs roster deep, and LeBron wouldn't have done anything with Melo's roster, you lost all respect from me personally.

Later.

Wait a minute. Melo took his team to playoffs every year in a much stronger western conference. Lebron's cavs would have barely made playoffs in the west those years. Lebron's Cavs probably would not have even made playoffs in the west half the time. Lebron would not have made a western final if he played in the western conf instead of the pathetic east

Hawkeye15
12-29-2011, 08:49 PM
Wait a minute. Melo took his team to playoffs every year in a much stronger western conference. Lebron's cavs would have barely made playoffs in the west those years. Lebron's Cavs probably would not have even made playoffs in the west half the time. Lebron would not have made a western final if he played in the western conf instead of the pathetic east

than you are guilty of not being able to evaluate Melo's roster dude. At all. Do you want to go down that path? Go for it. Bring up pre-Melo roster, and move forward. I don't feel like wasting my time with someone who would make such an idiotic statement like you did. Look at the pure **** LeBron played with, and look at what happened when he left. They went from a perennial 60 win team to 18 wins. LeBron, given the help Melo had, would have gone much further in the playoffs every single year. Easily.

I will leave it up to you to throw out a proper evaluation before I waste my time with a long post that I spent 10 minutes doing for nothing.

Lake_Show2416
12-29-2011, 08:54 PM
You have to look at it much differently. Denver wasn't going anywhere with Melo as their best player. They had a good roster around him, but Melo needs a 1a/b. The Nuggets didn't have this. May as well rebuild on the fly. Now, how do you rebuild? You get a ton of young players with upside, and picks. They got this. All for a 2nd tier star who doesn't play defense, and scores with average efficiency. Denver now has a ton of assets, and they finished 17-6 after that trade, because their depth was incredible. They now have assets to attract in a trade partner. They now have youth, to replace any bad deal going forward.

I just think its hilarious that anyone would think Denver didn't get a great haul for Carmelo Anthony. Here is a player who basically said, "trade me or I walk". Well they did, and they got a great haul.

they didnt surround Melo with enough talent, how was he supposed to beat all these championship squads with at least 3 great players on each of the squads

Lakers: Bynum, Gasol, Kobe, Odom
Spurs: Duncan, Manu, Parker
Celtics: KG, Pierce, Allen, Rondo

those have been the last champs, it gets to a point where it isn't bout the X's & O's but the joe's that surround u

They made only 1 move for him that was it

LOOTERX9
12-29-2011, 08:54 PM
than you are guilty of not being able to evaluate Melo's roster dude. At all. Do you want to go down that path? Go for it. Bring up pre-Melo roster, and move forward. I don't feel like wasting my time with someone who would make such an idiotic statement like you did. Look at the pure **** LeBron played with, and look at what happened when he left. They went from a perennial 60 win team to 18 wins. LeBron, given the help Melo had, would have gone much further in the playoffs every single year. Easily.

I will leave it up to you to throw out a proper evaluation before I waste my time with a long post that I spent 10 minutes doing for nothing.

Umm no, you are just making more excuses for lebron by blaming his teammates for lebron's failures. Well now lebron has wade and bosh as teammates and he still chokes under pressure. Who else does lebron need on his team for help? Dwight Howard? Lebron is a joke of a leader and is the classic definition of a frontrunner.

Hawkeye15
12-29-2011, 08:56 PM
Umm no, you are just making more excuses for lebron by blaming his teammates for lebron's failures. Well now lebron has wade and bosh and he still chokes under pressure. Who else does lebron need on his team for help? Dwight Howard? Lebron is a joke of a leader and is the classic definition of a frontrunner.

well, you bypassed my response. Like I said, I really could care less what you have to say after that b.s. claim you made.

Hawkeye15
12-29-2011, 08:57 PM
they didnt surround Melo with enough talent, how was he supposed to beat all these championship squads with at least 3 great players on each of the squads

Lakers: Bynum, Gasol, Kobe, Odom
Spurs: Duncan, Manu, Parker
Celtics: KG, Pierce, Allen, Rondo

those have been the last champs, it gets to a point where it isn't bout the X's & O's but the joe's that surround u

They made only 1 move for him that was it

And this is why Melo doesn't belong in the conversation with those top guys. Because he isn't. So when you get a haul like Denver did for a player who may not even be top 10, you won the trade.

LOOTERX9
12-29-2011, 08:58 PM
they didnt surround Melo with enough talent, how was he supposed to beat all these championship squads with at least 3 great players on each of the squads

Lakers: Bynum, Gasol, Kobe, Odom
Spurs: Duncan, Manu, Parker
Celtics: KG, Pierce, Allen, Rondo

those have been the last champs, it gets to a point where it isn't bout the X's & O's but the joe's that surround u

They made only 1 move for him that was it


You are right, The west was stacked while lebron played in that pathetic eastern conf. Look at the cavs records and we will find out that cavs would not even make western playoffs half the time

LOOTERX9
12-29-2011, 09:01 PM
well, you bypassed my response. Like I said, I really could care less what you have to say after that b.s. claim you made.

What response? And where exactly is lebrons rings? He had a easier path to the finals all these years so what has he won? Lebron could not beat san antonio just like melo couldn't. So what's your point? And if you think denvers team now that is filled with former knick role players are winning a title then you are nuts

SlimKid
12-29-2011, 10:14 PM
What response? And where exactly is lebrons rings? He had a easier path to the finals all these years so what has he won? Lebron could not beat san antonio just like melo couldn't. So what's your point? And if you think denvers team now that is filled with former knick role players are winning a title then your are nuts

Your Lebron hate is funny if nothing else.. I don't care for Lebron personally, but you've taken it to a "whole nubba level"

LOOTERX9
12-29-2011, 10:29 PM
Your Lebron hate is funny if nothing else.. I don't care for Lebron personally, but you've taken it to a "whole nubba level"


I'm just telling the truth bout lebrons so called success in the pathetic east. He would not have made the playoffs in the west most those years. Don't bash melo for not making it to finals in that strong western conf. Lebron is soft and needs wade to finish off games. Melo takes his teams last shots while lebron passes out of fear of failure.

LOOTERX9
12-29-2011, 10:31 PM
I guess lebron needs more help.

beasted86
12-29-2011, 10:33 PM
Do you care what his point is? Look at his sig. He is a LeBron hating troll. Move on.

I just wanted to see if he could clearly define his point/stance instead of doing everything besides such. But it's kind of what I thought... just garbage pointless rambling.

Hawkeye15
12-29-2011, 10:35 PM
I just wanted to see if he could clearly define his point/stance instead of doing everything besides such. But it's kind of what I thought... just garbage pointless rambling.

No, he can't justify his idiotic statement in the slightest. Who cares.

LOOTERX9
12-29-2011, 10:43 PM
I just wanted to see if he could clearly define his point/stance instead of doing everything besides such. But it's kind of what I thought... just garbage pointless rambling.


I think I did a pretty good job in explaining lebrons failures in the pathetic Eastern conference. And then when he played a real team in the finals he got swept by the Spurs from the stronger west. melo was stuck in the west for years playing, the suns, dallas, spurs, lakers. So stop with that lebron hype and propaganda. Lebron chokes in the biggest moments and it's getting old

LOOTERX9
12-29-2011, 10:45 PM
No, he can't justify his idiotic statement in the slightest. Who cares.


Oh I explained it. And I think most non heat fanboys would agree with my statements.

Melo > lebron(non clutch, and afraid to shoot in 4th qtr)It's embarrassing

Hawkeye15
12-29-2011, 10:51 PM
Oh I explained it. And I think most non heat fanboys would agree with my statements.

Melo > lebron(non clutch, and afraid to shoot in 4th qtr)It's embarrassing

Honestly, this is my last response to your drivel.

The very fact that you have zip ability to evaluate Carmelo Anthony's roster throughout his career, versus LeBron James roster in Cleveland, while spitting out an idiotic statement as you did, makes me really not care what you have to say. I don't think you have a 1st grade level of understanding of the game of basketball, and I don't care to debate with you. Melo's help was so much stronger its not even funny. If you fail to see that (which you do), I can't help you bud.

LeBron is exponentially a better player than Melo.

Later man.

LOOTERX9
12-29-2011, 11:02 PM
Honestly, this is my last response to your drivel.

The very fact that you have zip ability to evaluate Carmelo Anthony's roster throughout his career, versus LeBron James roster in Cleveland, while spitting out an idiotic statement as you did, makes me really not care what you have to say. I don't think you have a 1st grade level of understanding of the game of basketball, and I don't care to debate with you. Melo's help was so much stronger its not even funny. If you fail to see that (which you do), I can't help you bud.

LeBron is exponentially a better player than Melo.

Later man.


Yeah while melo's competition was so much harder. So what's your point? That denver team would have dominated the pathetic east for years with melo. Plus lebron is not a better pure scorer than melo. He's a better passer but heat don't need him to pass all the time, they need lebron to score and shoot the ball and not be afraid.

Lebron is mentally not a great player and will never lead team to title cause he keeps shutting down mentally in playoffs and finals. Sad but true

SlimKid
12-29-2011, 11:03 PM
Oh I explained it. And I think most non heat fanboys would agree with my statements.

Melo > lebron(non clutch, and afraid to shoot in 4th qtr)It's embarrassing

Disqualifying comment.. Game over man..

LOOTERX9
12-29-2011, 11:08 PM
Disqualifying comment.. Game over man..


Why? Both has zero titles:confused: Lebron made finals in weak east while melo played in harder west. lebron lost to the western team when he got to the finals just like melo lost to them in west playoffs. Denver could have went to finals in the pathetic east if denver were in the east.

Melo= better scorer
melo= better shooter
melo= way more clutch and not afraid to take big shot. What good is passing if your star player(lebron) will always pass on the big shot? You want your star to shoot the big shot not pass to a lesser teammate

MTL_123
12-29-2011, 11:26 PM
Lebron is better than Melo how can u compare a guy that doest play defese to a guy that strives on being an elite defender Melo is 100x better than lebron in the clutch but thats it Lebron is better then him in everything else LOOTER6X = Fail

MTL_123
12-29-2011, 11:27 PM
Disqualifying comment.. Game over man..


Why? Both has zero titles:confused: Lebron made finals in weak east while melo played in harder west. lebron lost to the western team when he got to the finals just like melo lost to them in west playoffs. Denver could have went to finals in the pathetic east if denver were in the east.

Melo= better scorer
melo= better shooter
melo= way more clutch and not afraid to take big shot. What good is passing if your star player(lebron) will always pass on the big shot? You want your star to shoot the big shot not pass to a lesser teammate

Ok Melo only got out of the first round 1 time but he always had better players around him then Lebron. Iverson, Billups,Nene

LOOTERX9
12-29-2011, 11:31 PM
Lebron is better than Melo how can u compare a guy that doest play defese to a guy that strives on being an elite defender Melo is 100x better than lebron in the clutch but thats it Lebron is better then him in everything else LOOTER6X = Fail


You hit the nail on the head when you said melo is 100x better in clutch. That's the most important part of any sport. And you forgot melo is a better scorer and post player. I don't want melo to be a passer, I want him scoring baskets when the game is on the line. Lebron will get your team far but will never get his team over the hump cause he shuts down mentally on the big stage. You can't deny that lebron checked out mentally last 2 playoffs

MTL_123
12-29-2011, 11:33 PM
You hit the nail on the head when you said melo is 100x better in clutch. That's the most important part of any sport. And you forgot melo is a better scorer and post player. I don't want melo to be a passer, I want him scoring baskets when the game is on the line. Lebron will get your team far but will never get his team over the hump cause he shuts down mentally on the big stage. You can't deny that lebron checked out mentally last 2 playoffs

:facepalm: i hope u no that not every game comes down to a point or two just cuz melo is better than Lebron in clutch situation Lebron is 100x a better player he can score like Melo n he can do wat melo cant play lock down d n one more thing Lebron has prove already he can score in clutch moments

LOOTERX9
12-29-2011, 11:33 PM
[QUOTE=LOOTERX9;20311244]

Ok Melo only got out of the first round 1 time but he always had better players around him then Lebron. Iverson, Billups,Nene


But Melo played in much tougher west. Lebron should have made finals more playing in the pathetic east. Put melo's denver team in east those years and they would have slapped the cavs around and went to more finals. Put lebrons cavs in the west and they don't make playoffs half the time and no way do they make the finals in the west

MTL_123
12-29-2011, 11:35 PM
[QUOTE=MTL_123;20311672]


But Melo played in much tougher west. Lebron should have made finals more playing in the pathetic east. Put melo's denver team in east those years and they would have slapped the cavs around and went to more finals. Put lebrons cavs in the west and they don't make playoffs half the time and no way do they make the finals in the west

ok then put melo in the cavs n Lebron in denver. Melo still wont get to the finals unlike Lebron who would pro have won a ring or at least made it to the finals

LOOTERX9
12-29-2011, 11:36 PM
:facepalm: i hope u no that not every game comes down to a point or two just cuz melo is better than Lebron in clutch situation Lebron is 100x a better player he can score like Melo n he can do wat melo cant play lock down d n one more thing Lebron has prove already he can score in clutch moments


Dirk could not play lock down Defense either but he shot the ball in the clutch and beat your boy lebron and his great lockdown Defense:confused:

LOOTERX9
12-29-2011, 11:39 PM
[QUOTE=LOOTERX9;20311851]

ok then put melo in the cavs n Lebron in denver. Melo still wont get to the finals unlike Lebron who would pro have won a ring or at least made it to the finals


The system for cavs would have been different if melo was there. You do know lebron choked his 1st few years and did not even make playoffs in the awful east right?

MTL_123
12-29-2011, 11:39 PM
Dirk could not play lock down Defense either but he shot the ball in the clutch and beat your boy lebron and his great lockdown Defense:confused:

o ya because Lebron Guarded Dirk Right:facepalm: wow man u really have to stop being a Lebron hater your arguments are really pathetic:facepalm:

Bob_at_york
12-29-2011, 11:50 PM
i dont understand how u can say Denver, they're a team thats now stuck in the middle of the pack, where their not good enough to win but too good to receive a highly rated prospect to help build their team.
I agree, they should have tried to sign and trade Nene this offseason. Keeping him is hurting the rebuild. They should have waited this year and brought back Chandler and JR next summer.

LOOTERX9
12-29-2011, 11:51 PM
o ya because Lebron Guarded Dirk Right:facepalm: wow man u really have to stop being a Lebron hater your arguments are really pathetic:facepalm:


No but dirk proved he's a crunch time player and he plays no defense. So what's your argument bout him. Melo just needs to make his shots with game on line and he'll be a champion one day unlike lebron is willing to do

LOOTERX9
12-29-2011, 11:54 PM
I'd take durant over lebron also to lead my team in the 4th qtr

setman2000
12-30-2011, 12:26 AM
Reading these posts is hilarious - Knicks fans are so delusional. Besides Denver being a MUCH better TEAM without the me rirst Melo, not having his "superstar salary" let them put together the deepest bench in the NBA. AND we still have the rights to restricted free agent Chandler. Denver fans know what we have now and very few are missing 1 and done Melo. It was Billups experience and maturity that led the team the year of the conference finals - not MElo. The Knicks aren't even that good of a team now.

unleashthebeast
12-30-2011, 12:32 AM
I'd take durant over lebron also to lead my team in the 4th qtr

Reading your signature leads me to believe that you clearly have no bias against lebron

(sarcasm)


Anyway, yeah it seems now that it would have been better for the Knicks to wait and get Melo in FA, but if you have a trade where you can get a superstar you do it, no looking back. I'm sure both teams are each much happier where they are now than where they were last year at this time, so i dont see any reason to complain, as they are both in much better situations now

LOOTERX9
12-30-2011, 01:05 AM
Reading these posts is hilarious - Knicks fans are so delusional. Besides Denver being a MUCH better TEAM without the me rirst Melo, not having his "superstar salary" let them put together the deepest bench in the NBA. AND we still have the rights to restricted free agent Chandler. Denver fans know what we have now and very few are missing 1 and done Melo. It was Billups experience and maturity that led the team the year of the conference finals - not MElo. The Knicks aren't even that good of a team now.


Umm Denver has no shot in hell of winning any titles or even makin conf finals with former knick role players. Hell most of the trade pieces from knicks are not even playing on denver now:confused:

LOOTERX9
12-30-2011, 01:08 AM
Reading your signature leads me to believe that you clearly have no bias against lebron

(sarcasm)


Anyway, yeah it seems now that it would have been better for the Knicks to wait and get Melo in FA, but if you have a trade where you can get a superstar you do it, no looking back. I'm sure both teams are each much happier where they are now than where they were last year at this time, so i dont see any reason to complain, as they are both in much better situations now

That's what you don't understand, Knicks were not getting him in FA Cause of the CBA. Melo would have accepted trade to New Jersey so this thread is really stupid. Plus Denver aint winning nothing significant with that cast of role players. No chance in hell

kmo429
12-30-2011, 01:17 AM
Knicks won. Plain and simple, Ill take what the Knicks have now over what the Knicks had last year before the trade...

Nugs got good value though for a paer they were gonna lose ayway

BranWingss
12-30-2011, 01:21 AM
I agree, they should have tried to sign and trade Nene this offseason. Keeping him is hurting the rebuild. They should have waited this year and brought back Chandler and JR next summer.

Well, I wouldn't call it a straight up total rebuild, as they're still a playoff team. I do get what you're saying though. They're kind of re-tooling, and rebuilding at the exact same time.

setman2000
12-30-2011, 03:05 PM
Umm Denver has no shot in hell of winning any titles or even makin conf finals with former knick role players. Hell most of the trade pieces from knicks are not even playing on denver now:confused:

I didn't say anything about Knicks role players or Denver winning a championship. Denver is a better team than the Knicks and will win more games than them this year. The Knicks have NO SHOT at the finals with or without Melo and are not that good of a team. Through the 1st 3 games Denver is averaging 16 steals a game because they play team defense which primadona MElo would never do. I'm sure Karl glad to have a group of players he can actually coach and not have to baby. And anyone that thinks JR Smith will ever be a Nugget again doesn't have a clue.

vegasdave
12-31-2011, 04:55 PM
The Knicks were mediocre before the Melo trade any they are mediocre at best now. In other words the Knicks still stink.

d nuggets fan
01-03-2012, 02:04 PM
The Knicks were mediocre before the Melo trade any they are mediocre at best now. In other words the Knicks still stink.

I agree - after a week of real play - Knicks and Melo aren't delivering to the hype. Denver on the other hand looks solid now and into the future.

Hitman21
01-03-2012, 02:30 PM
Knicks got melo and billups (Billups no longer with NY)

Nuggets got Chandler, Galo, Felton, Mozgov (Felton, and Chandler are not playing for the nuggets)


Who has a better shot at winning a title in the next few years? I dont think he nuggest can get out of the 1st round with the team they have.

Bob_at_york
01-03-2012, 02:55 PM
Knicks got melo and billups (Billups no longer with NY)

Nuggets got Chandler, Galo, Felton, Mozgov (Felton, and Chandler are not playing for the nuggets)


Who has a better shot at winning a title in the next few years? I dont think he nuggest can get out of the 1st round with the team they have.

I am not sure if the Knicks can get out of the 1st round either.

Punk
01-03-2012, 03:05 PM
I am not sure if the Knicks can get out of the 1st round either.

With a healthy roster we would have won both of those road games in Boston in the playoffs.

Only reason why we got bounced was due to injuries and the fact we played a team we should have played in the 2nd round.

We'll certainly make out the 1st round once we get a healthy roster together and make a push to a Top 3 seed or 4 seed which means we would probably face a team like Philly in the 1st round instead of Boston, Miami.

Hawkeye15
01-03-2012, 03:08 PM
How do you plan on them getting healthy when they don't get any time off?

Again, the depth argument is a valid one. The Knicks will be on the road for their first playoff series this year. I am convinced of that.

Bob_at_york
01-03-2012, 03:18 PM
With a healthy roster we would have won both of those road games in Boston in the playoffs.

Only reason why we got bounced was due to injuries and the fact we played a team we should have played in the 2nd round.

We'll certainly make out the 1st round once we get a healthy roster together and make a push to a Top 3 seed or 4 seed which means we would probably face a team like Philly in the 1st round instead of Boston, Miami.

Last season is different than this season. Knicks have lost some players from last year's team and with the state the celtics are in, they definitely could find themselves facing the Knicks in the 1st round in a 4 vs. 5 match-up or something.

Ladies Man
01-03-2012, 03:22 PM
I say Denver. They have played solid basketball since Carmelo left.

LongIslandIcedZ
01-03-2012, 03:23 PM
Knicks arent there yet. They'll get into the playoffs, hell maybe they can upset someone in the first round, but they aren't there yet. I give them a couple years adding pieces here and there around MTA, and I think they can become a powerhouse in the east, just not yet.

WWWYKI

Rentzias
01-03-2012, 03:53 PM
With a healthy roster we would have won both of those road games in Boston in the playoffs.

Only reason why we got bounced was due to injuries and the fact we played a team we should have played in the 2nd round.
Having a bench that is essentially another team's starting unit (aka depth) addresses this problem.

d nuggets fan
01-03-2012, 05:55 PM
I am not sure if the Knicks can get out of the 1st round either.

Totally agree - not this year, and have a hard time seeing any year as this team is constructed as well as financially limited.

And I think Denver will get a high seed this year and advance to the 2nd round or even WCF if they get a good enough seed, but won't get past OKC - that team is taking it all this year peeps. Hands down unless injury.

dtmagnet
01-03-2012, 06:11 PM
Knicks arent there yet. They'll get into the playoffs, hell maybe they can upset someone in the first round, but they aren't there yet. I give them a couple years adding pieces here and there around MTA, and I think they can become a powerhouse in the east, just not yet.

WWWYKI

How are you going to add pieces when you are sandwiched right against the cap? Knicks are screwed IMO.

nycericanguy
01-03-2012, 06:15 PM
Knicks have been playing without 4 rotation players, Amare, Davis, Shumpert, & JJ are all out. Lets hold off on judgment for now as there hasn't been a team hit by injuries like NY has been so far.

^ Knicks will have the full MLE every year to add pieces along with the $1.4m vet min and they still have their $2.5m MMLE this year which they are saving for Kmart.

d nuggets fan
01-03-2012, 09:04 PM
Knicks have been playing without 4 rotation players, Amare, Davis, Shumpert, & JJ are all out. Lets hold off on judgment for now as there hasn't been a team hit by injuries like NY has been so far.

^ Knicks will have the full MLE every year to add pieces along with the $1.4m vet min and they still have their $2.5m MMLE this year which they are saving for Kmart.


Let's hope your injuries work out - I hate excuses for losing games, and "only if" stories.