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View Full Version : Stern: Teams like OKC and Heat may have to surrender one of its stars in the future



spreadeagle
12-26-2011, 07:13 PM
After building through the draft and developing from within, Oklahoma City now has a stable of young talent with which it will chase a championship. But there has long been a fear that the Thunder would not be able to retain its core, which includes Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, James Harden Serge Ibaka and Kendrick Perkins, all of whom are projected to be highly paid players in the near future.A more punitive luxury tax, which is set to take effect in two seasons, could soon become the demise of the Thunder. The new rules in the ratified collective bargaining agreement allows players like Durant, who outperform their rookie contracts, to be paid 5 percent more on their extensions under the so-called “Derrick Rose rule.” Westbrook could qualify for the same bump Durant already has, which could put pressure on the franchise to pay top-dollar salaries to retain its stars — and surround them with a competitive cast — or lose them out of fear of potentially falling into luxury tax hell.

Stern shot down the notion that the tax system, even in the face of rising costs, hurts small markets.

“That's ludicrous,” Stern said. “The idea that the luxury tax hurts small markets is ludicrous. It may impact a small market that is a great team and has to raise payroll. But at bottom, it's designed to eliminate the ability of teams to use their economic resources to distort competition.

“It does have a bite if you have any team that's well assembled and you want to keep it together. So if you have the Thunder over here and the Heat over there, they're both going to have to deal with luxury tax issues. That's not a small market (issue).”

Stern added that the Thunder, like any loaded team, would someday potentially have to surrender one of its stars.

“People are saying to Miami, ‘Well, you're going to have a decision to make with respect to one of your big three.' And they may say the same thing to Oklahoma City, and that's a good thing."

Read more: http://newsok.com/thunder-okc-will-eventually-have-to-pay-for-its-thrills/article/3635120#ixzz1hgVmQroy

justinnum1
12-26-2011, 07:15 PM
Heat are good for the next 3 years...what happens after that...:shrug:

MrfadeawayJB
12-26-2011, 07:16 PM
I love competitive balance. See to have a team like the OKC have right now, a team with a few very lucrative contracts on it and a few over-acheiving players still on the rookie scale contracts, has a short window to "win it all". If they are really well managed they will get players there at a discount price like the larger markets

Corey
12-26-2011, 07:17 PM
This is assuming A) Players wont take a discount and B) Owners wont pay the Luxury Tax

Mudvayne91
12-26-2011, 07:19 PM
I thought the ending sentence was funny. Martha Stewart esque from SNL.

tcav701
12-26-2011, 07:20 PM
Heat are good for the next 3 years...what happens after that...:shrug:

Can they win those 7 rings everyone promised in 3 years?

gilly
12-26-2011, 07:21 PM
How they gonna punish a team for drafting impeccably and developing their players into stars? This **** has become a joke.

spreadeagle
12-26-2011, 07:23 PM
I thought the ending sentence was funny. Martha Stewart esque from SNL.

lmao totally dude

-Kobe24-TJ19-
12-26-2011, 07:23 PM
How they gonna punish a team for drafting impeccably and developing their players into stars? This **** has become a joke.

:confused:

rules are same for everyone

justinnum1
12-26-2011, 07:26 PM
Can they win those 7 rings everyone promised in 3 years?

Nice off topic/ bait

tcav701
12-26-2011, 07:28 PM
Nice off topic/ bait

just tryin to fit in.

justinnum1
12-26-2011, 07:29 PM
just tryin to fit in.


nice ninja edit :facepalm:

Sportfan
12-26-2011, 07:30 PM
:clap: James harden will leave to Boston for the max and become the GOAT!!!

utl768
12-26-2011, 07:30 PM
punish teams that do well cause cheap ****s like dan gilbert wont spend money

tcav701
12-26-2011, 07:32 PM
Na, you way more obsessed with lebron

nice ninja edit :facepalm:

18,000 posts in less than a year with 75% of those being facepalms and the other 25% being "u mad?".

Doubt it.

Bruno
12-26-2011, 07:32 PM
it's a shame that a team like OKC who were built from the bottom up might not be able to keep their core intact under a CBA designed to keep players from forming superteams.

Obviously OKC is the exception to a smaller market doing all the right things (getting lucky in drafts, ect), but it's sad how super-stars teaming up lead to a CBA that will possibly prevent a team like OKC from maintaining its core.

HuRRiCaNeS324
12-26-2011, 07:33 PM
We all know who the odd man out in Miami is lol.

gotoHcarolina52
12-26-2011, 07:34 PM
Can they win those 7 rings everyone promised in 3 years?

Don't worry, baby, The Don will find a way to take care of the other 4 ;)

MonroeFAN
12-26-2011, 07:35 PM
I think it's bs that teams like OKC have to be punished for building a team the right way. It doesn't bother me with Miami.

Nofear
12-26-2011, 07:37 PM
But at bottom, it's designed to eliminate the ability of teams to use their economic resources to distort competition.

Yeah Stern would never want to distort the competition would he?

The goods
12-26-2011, 07:38 PM
Wow in this case you have 1 team that's build their team through the draft,and the other through free agencie,in short its not fair but players will take pay cuts if they really want to be there,like the miami players did,or teams will pay the luxary tax and gladly do it in order to win like the lakers do.

HOZ THE KNICK
12-26-2011, 07:44 PM
stern needs to fall back and let this thing play out.

LakersKB24
12-26-2011, 07:44 PM
How they gonna punish a team for drafting impeccably and developing their players into stars? This **** has become a joke.

Kind of what I thought initially... The Thunder are a perfect example of how you build your team without being a big market team.

It might be the same rules for everybody but big market teams will still have big advantages financially. More revenue means more money to spend, even though the luxury tax is higher now.

There should be a rule that makes it more attractive to build your team by drafting, e.g. players like Durant, Rose, Kobe etc don't cost as much luxury tax as players that aren't drafted by the team they're playing for.

That's just off the top of my head though, I'm sure there's a catch that would make that rule useless.

stawka
12-26-2011, 07:47 PM
stern needs to fall dead and let this thing play out.

fixed

NYtilIdie
12-26-2011, 07:47 PM
18,000 posts in less than a year with 75% of those being facepalms and the other 25% being "u mad?".

Doubt it.

:laugh2: Holy s**t I just noticed that.

C_Mund
12-26-2011, 07:52 PM
How they gonna punish a team for drafting impeccably and developing their players into stars? This **** has become a joke.

That's a good question, but most teams won't be able to draft three superstar players unless they tank.
Also, if you trade for a few really good players that are on rookie contracts, how can you expect them to NOT expect raises? The whole point is that you need to draft, trade, and sign intelligently to compete later on in this cba...unless you want to pay ridiculous luxury tax.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
12-26-2011, 07:54 PM
We all know who the odd man out in Miami is lol.

lebrick?

faridk89
12-26-2011, 07:54 PM
How they gonna punish a team for drafting impeccably and developing their players into stars? This **** has become a joke.

I agree, maybe there should be a clause when a player has played on ur team for lets say 4 years...he can be signed and put you over the cap or w.e...just a thought

justinnum1
12-26-2011, 07:55 PM
thunder will be in tax trobule in 2 years

they have to pay
harden
westbrook
ibaka

I cant see harden or westbrook taking less than 12mil per

tcav701
12-26-2011, 07:56 PM
I agree, maybe there should be a clause when a player has played on ur team for lets say 4 years...he can be signed and put you over the cap or w.e...just a thought

They are called Bird rights and they do exist.

Corey
12-26-2011, 07:57 PM
punish teams that do well cause cheap ****s like dan gilbert wont spend money
Pull up the Cavaliers team salaries from 2005-2009 and tell me that he spends no money.

Thanks in advance.

I'll even give you the link: http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/basketball/nba/cavaliers/salaries/2009

Colts2180
12-26-2011, 08:01 PM
Yeah it is unfair to a team like the Thunder that did it the right way. Miami did there best Yankee impression and "bought" there team. I love the idea of making it where you dont pay as much luxury tax if you drafted the player. Maybe give the team an exception on the tax thats the equal amount of the drafted players contract? Of course probably more would have to be to it than just that but its a thought.

lakersfan01
12-26-2011, 08:28 PM
Can they win those 7 rings everyone promised in 3 years?

:clap:

TheNumber37
12-26-2011, 08:54 PM
okc did it the right way. so forget all that. what about a "we drafted or acquire this rookie on draft day" discount

beliges
12-26-2011, 09:41 PM
Enough of this competitive balance crap. Since when is it punishable for a franchise to run its team successfully. So players dont want to play for the Bucks or the Hornets. Big deal. Run your team well, make smart trades draft good players and shell out the big bucks for the good players. This league is becoming silly. OKC nor Miami should have to give up any of their players. The league *****ing to Stern about the Lakers getting better was the most ridiculous thing Ive ever seen since watching the NBA, but now its just getting silly. Well run franchises should not be penalized for running its team well and crappy franchises shouldnt be helped for running its team to the ground. Everyone plays by the same rules. If you want a team in a big market, then shell out and overpay for that team and its yours.

Tmath
12-26-2011, 09:54 PM
I'd like andrea and amir to get 3 more rebounds each.

Tmath
12-26-2011, 09:58 PM
Big CAT

xxcubs22xx
12-26-2011, 09:58 PM
Trade Westbrook now and get it over with

Tmath
12-26-2011, 09:59 PM
Trade Westbrook now and get it over with

:confused:

NFLNBA
12-26-2011, 10:42 PM
Thats why the NBA has lost all its credability, this league is a joke now! From the way the game is played and called with all the technical fouls and no hard fouls which just makes it a WNBA leauge, wish they played thje game like they did from the early 2000's amd earlier! Now you have the LA Stern stoping trades, helping cheap owners and hurting large market teams ect its all just a damn joke.

RollinDeep
12-26-2011, 10:46 PM
As a Laker fan, all I can do to keep sane anymore is laugh at the ridiculousness of stuff like this.

RollinDeep
12-26-2011, 10:48 PM
Although just a thought, why not have some sort of reduced luxury tax hit for drafted players?

sixer04fan
12-26-2011, 11:04 PM
18,000 posts in less than a year with 75% of those being facepalms and the other 25% being "u mad?".

Doubt it.

Hahaha boom roasted

Lord Leoshes
12-26-2011, 11:16 PM
its all about desertification.

There are way to many unqualified owners, who have no clue on how to run a NBA franchise properly.

We need to get rid of 6/8 teams, & have Stern retire already.

& i agree with NFLNBA that the league has begun to resemble more the WNBA, then the NBA. & if stern keeps getting his way it will be more like the WYMCA. :(

Raps18-19 Champ
12-26-2011, 11:16 PM
Just get a ****ing hard cap.

dnewguy
12-26-2011, 11:17 PM
Well, that'll be a good excuse to get rid of Chris Bosh.

Dade County
12-26-2011, 11:55 PM
I think it's bs that teams like OKC have to be punished for building a team the right way. It doesn't bother me with Miami.

wtf ... we did it the right way.

Pat didn't go around, killing people and stuff... smh

we git them all discounted, whats wrong with that :confused:

The HEAT is the only team that can't sign free agents or something?

LakersIn5
12-27-2011, 12:35 AM
i hate stern. teams makes great moves to set them apart from the weak teams and stern and other fans want parity?? thats so unfair for the competitive teams. they work hard but stern wants every team to be equal.

Dade County
12-27-2011, 12:46 AM
i hate stern. teams makes great moves to set them apart from the weak teams and stern and other fans want parity?? thats so unfair for the competitive teams. they work hard but stern wants every team to be equal.

only thing that psd poster get from this post, is that you are a laker fan crying about how good your organization is.

I agree with you, but your words will not reach anyone, but laker, Dallas & HEAT fans... sorry

jej
12-27-2011, 12:48 AM
I think its one thing to bring in players from FA like the Heat. But when players that are drafted cant be resigned, then it gets crazy. You should be able to resign your players and go over the cap. OKC shouldnt be punished for drafting great players

LakersIn5
12-27-2011, 12:56 AM
only thing that psd poster get from this post, is that you are a laker fan crying about how good your organization is.

I agree with you, but your words will not reach anyone, but laker, Dallas & HEAT fans... sorry

atleast someone agrees with the truth unlike the other fans who just wants "parity" because teams like miami got lebron,wade,bosh. dallas spending alot of money to get a great team and the lakers for making trades that benefit them the most.

ClippersE.G
12-27-2011, 01:05 AM
Great News. Lebrick or Bosh would suddenly make ANY franchise relevant. What is wrong with that? Its better to have alot of teams with one start fail in the playoffs than watch one team with 3 fail in the finals

Dade County
12-27-2011, 01:08 AM
I think its one thing to bring in players from FA like the Heat. But when players that are drafted cant be resigned, then it gets crazy. You should be able to resign your players and go over the cap. OKC shouldnt be punished for drafting great players

wtf is wrong with getting players from free agency?

This hatred on the HEAT is insane, grow up people.

mdm692
12-27-2011, 02:03 AM
wtf is wrong with getting players from free agency?

This hatred on the HEAT is insane, grow up people.

Im pretty sure if lebron and wade had signed in NY when stat did you would be saying other wise its hard to understand when youre a fan of the organization.

Hellcrooner
12-27-2011, 02:06 AM
Heat are good for the next 3 years...what happens after that...:shrug:

the three of them resign fro the minimum and they get the best 3 FA in the market that year, and spite stern, gilbert and jordan in the face.

Odominator
12-27-2011, 02:09 AM
If he does that, might as well charge players "state tax" in states that don't enforce a state tax, just to be fair and have a leveled playing field.

LakersIn5
12-27-2011, 02:19 AM
okc did it the right way. so forget all that. what about a "we drafted or acquire this rookie on draft day" discount

miami did it right too. whats wrong with clearing cap space and signing free agents? nothing!

j-bay
12-27-2011, 02:30 AM
it really is alittle unfair i can understand letting the players do what they want and yadah,yadah, yadah. However good guys like a Vince Carter, Rip Hamilton, Eddy Curry, Tyson Chandler also set up a domino effect. The fact is for the small market teams who are actually trying to build a competitor with a franchise guy, its very hard. Washington is a very good example. They are trying to make it a place where players want to go. However when you got the whole superstar players joining up with another, the type of guys i mentioned above follow. So now those guys are stuck with those benchwarmers type player and then the franchise player becomes angry and the team can't contend.

Baller1
12-27-2011, 02:30 AM
I hope the NBA falls through until Seattle gets its team back.

Flashsides
12-27-2011, 02:44 AM
I'm also a little confused about the general idea that the Heat should be "punished" for the way in which they performed. You had a team with one Superstar with very little title chances at all which cleared a lot of cap space and sacrificed a lot of salary to lure two other superstars to the team. There's little to no reason that a small market team couldn't do the same thing - Miami CONVINCED Lebron and Bosh to join, they didn't break any rules. They CONVINCED Lebron and Bosh and Wade and UD and everyone else to take less money in exchange for increased competitiveness. A small market team can do the same thing.

That is, unless the convincing relies on the geographic location of the market (like NY, LA, etc.) in which case, what is Stern going to do? Nothing.

Small market owners need to be willing to spend money in exchange to win and convince players that they're willing to do whatever it takes. By doing that you can take a "small market" or hopeless team and make them into a winning team.

tredigs
12-27-2011, 03:23 AM
Well Heat don't need Bosh anyway to be honest. They'd be far, far better served with something like Bogut and Haslem. Or even Varajao+Haslem.

If that team had defensive juggernauts in the post there's no chance they could be beat in a best of 7.

As an aside, if I was an owner I would hire THE best financial investors and marketers available in the world (who were willing to help) and offer them as personal advisers to certain teammates so long as they were willing to take pay cuts to continue their tenure with the team.

If the players are smart, they take the deal (for more reasons than one).

Sadds The Gr8
12-27-2011, 03:35 AM
good. one of them should come to the Raptors.

xk4
12-27-2011, 04:02 AM
The only way to fix free agency is to relocate every team to an equally crappy city. See how many people will take pay cuts to play for the Fargo Heat

SportsAndrew25
12-27-2011, 04:07 AM
Can we stop with this luxury tax crap? Why do teams that do things the right way have to give it's money to teams who teams who ****ing suck and never do anything right? Take your luxury tax and shove it up your ***.

Hellcrooner
12-27-2011, 04:10 AM
the only way to avoid this is............

FREE MARKET!!!!!!!!!!!1

yep.

You read it!!!


IF YOU HAVE TO PAY MARKET VALUE TO YOUR STARS

theres NO WAY IN HELL you can ahve more than 1 star and make a PROFIT.


If you had to pay Lebron 40 millions dollars a year you wouldnt be able to have enough money to OVERBID other teams in order to get two superstars or three superstars, unless you are ready to go broke and ahve your team dissaperar.

tredigs
12-27-2011, 04:13 AM
the only way to avoid this is............

FREE MARKET!!!!!!!!!!!1

yep.

You read it!!!


IF YOU HAVE TO PAY MARKET VALUE TO YOUR STARS

theres NO WAY IN HELL you can ahve more than 1 star and make a PROFIT.


If you had to pay Lebron 40 millions dollars a year you wouldnt be able to have enough money to OVERBID other teams in order to get two superstars or three superstars, unless you are ready to go broke and ahve your team dissaperar.

Wow - How clueless are you concerning league revenue and the marketability of players HellCrooner? Do you have any idea how much more Lebron brings to a franchise than 40 million dollars a season?

The TOP marketable Superstars in the NBA are HUGELY underpaid. If there was a true free market then Lebron might've made 85 million a year in free agency - and it would've been a good deal for the team.

A team could do this and still finance a solid/contending team while maintaining profitable.

Hellcrooner
12-27-2011, 04:22 AM
Wow - How clueless are you concerning league revenue and the marketability of players HellCrooner? Do you have any idea how much more Lebron brings to a franchise than 40 million dollars a season?

The TOP marketable Superstars in the NBA are HUGELY underpaid. If there was a true free market then Lebron might've made 85 million a year in free agency - and it would've been a good deal for the team.

A team could do this and still finance a solid/contending team while maintaining profitable.

i was giving a random amount man.

but the base its still the same, seats are limited, the amount you can ask fans to pay for those sits is limited because after a certain price they woudl simply not pay them, there is a max amount of money sponsors are willing to give expecting a retour in sales raise.

so believe me it would be very very difficult to create a new heat with free market working.

take soccer for example, they can spend whatever and still the top 20 players are separated in 9 or 10 teams because NO team would be able to buy the best one at each position and field the ideal 11 and get a benefit.


take on account that with no salary cap, bottome players would Not be content with 500 k, bench players wouldnt be content with 1 million a year, 6th men and starters wouldnt be happy with mle money.

tredigs
12-27-2011, 04:27 AM
i was giving a random amount man.

but the base its still the same, seats are limited, the amount you can ask fans to pay for those sits is limited because after a certain price they woudl simply not pay them, there is a max amount of money sponsors are willing to give expecting a retour in sales raise.

so believe me it would be very very difficult to create a new heat with free market working.

take soccer for example, they can spend whatever and still the top 20 players are separated in 9 or 10 teams because NO team would be able to buy the best one at each position and field the ideal 11 and get a benefit.

Soccer's 11 players though Croon. You can dominate in the NBA with 2 and a half stars + solid role players.

That said - I see where you're coming from now and I do think you have a good point in that one team likely wouldn't be willing to pay the 70+ million a year that both Wade and Lebron would demand in a true free market/agency, not to mention Bosh's likely 24+ million.

Kyben36
12-27-2011, 04:29 AM
I realy dont understand why teams that can find tallent cant resign them. Teams Like OKC and the former non injured Trailblazers impressed me in the fact that they where able to build through players that they could find. if these teams can find starters in the 2nd round, why cant they pay them. at the same time, I understand that teams like Miami and NY should not be rewarded for just signing the best players possible outright. this is just my opinion on this. reward the teams like the spurs and Pistons who did it without aquiring FA, and punish the teams who had to do it by signing players by their only way of finding talent.

OKC should not have to give anything up in order to keep the players they have, in fact, they are a great team becuase of the way they drafted in a few years, why not just take away rings from teams who know what the hell they are doing.

LakersIn5
12-27-2011, 04:32 AM
why reward ****** weak small market teams who suck? its their fault that they suck. other small market team like the thunder, spurs, magic have been relevant. maybe its because their management doesnt suck as much as the whinny teams like the cavaliers and bobcats who have *****y owners

Kyben36
12-27-2011, 04:33 AM
I realy dont understand why teams that can find tallent cant resign them. Teams Like OKC and the former non injured Trailblazers impressed me in the fact that they where able to build through players that they could find. if these teams can find starters in the 2nd round, why cant they pay them. at the same time, I understand that teams like Miami and NY should not be rewarded for just signing the best players possible outright. this is just my opinion on this. reward the teams like the spurs and Pistons who did it without aquiring FA, and punish the teams who had to do it by signing players by their only way of finding talent.

OKC should not have to give anything up in order to keep the players they have, in fact, they are a great team becuase of the way they drafted in a few years, why not just take away rings from teams who know what the hell they are doing.

SRY for the rant, but I just think that the NBA is the most corrupt league in sports, becuse of the way that certain teams are allways good cause they can pay players, the way that now teams actualy denied the Lakers a trade that was excepted by everyone because of garbage reasons. the way that players can bassicaly just leave teams and leave them with nothing. things that the NFL have corrected by franchise tags, hard caps. so on.

SportsAndrew25
12-27-2011, 05:36 AM
why reward ****** weak small market teams who suck? its their fault that they suck. other small market team like the thunder, spurs, magic have been relevant. maybe its because their management doesnt suck as much as the whinny teams like the cavaliers and bobcats who have *****y ownersthis.

billsftw
12-27-2011, 05:38 AM
SRY for the rant, but I just think that the NBA is the most corrupt league in sports, becuse of the way that certain teams are allways good cause they can pay players, the way that now teams actualy denied the Lakers a trade that was excepted by everyone because of garbage reasons. the way that players can bassicaly just leave teams and leave them with nothing. things that the NFL have corrected by franchise tags, hard caps. so on.

uhh this it the NBA not the MLB

JEDean89
12-27-2011, 08:23 AM
this is why i support the idea of a 75 million dollar hard cap with no exceptions. with increased revenue sharing pretty much every team can, in the near future spend all the way up the the 75 mill cap. just think it's more fair. mav's had like an extra 20 mil in salary over the heat and everyone says the heat sucked. give the heat 10 mill of the mavs salary and they would have won.

knicks_champ
12-27-2011, 08:44 AM
All you guys bashing Stern when mainly the owners wanted him.. he just had to side by what the majority wanted.


Give the man a break.

PhillyFaninLA
12-27-2011, 09:42 AM
All you guys bashing Stern when mainly the owners wanted him.. he just had to side by what the majority wanted.


Give the man a break.


People in leadership positions like a commissioner need to do what is right for their product and not what the majority wants. A weak willed person in way over their head that is completely unprofessional do what the majority wants. The reason the NFL became what it is today is in large part because Paul Tagliabue had the courage to do what needed to be done over what was popular. Stern has about backbone as my pillow and I used to defend him until this lockout ended.

If you want the NBA to evolve to the next step you need a commissioner that will act like a commissioner and a leader.

knicks_champ
12-27-2011, 09:50 AM
People in leadership positions like a commissioner need to do what is right for their product and not what the majority wants. A weak willed person in way over their head that is completely unprofessional do what the majority wants. The reason the NFL became what it is today is in large part because Paul Tagliabue had the courage to do what needed to be done over what was popular. Stern has about backbone as my pillow and I used to defend him until this lockout ended.

If you want the NBA to evolve to the next step you need a commissioner that will act like a commissioner and a leader.

Every commissioner will be hated by many in the league. Some people see Stern has good and some bad. Nothing you can do about it but wait and see the long term effect.

PhillyFaninLA
12-27-2011, 09:54 AM
Every commissioner will be hated by many in the league. Some people see Stern has good and some bad. Nothing you can do about it but wait and see the long term effect.



What does this have to do with any point I made in what you quoted. I talked about leadership and not giving into the majority as a commissioner and you say we need to wait and see. Those are 2 completely different points so you aren't addressing at all what you quoted.

smith&wesson
12-27-2011, 01:26 PM
Heat are good for the next 3 years...what happens after that...:shrug:

they trade bosh for some quality role players. or a solid 5. and they are still contenders with wade and james and a deeper over all rotation.

Randy West
12-27-2011, 01:30 PM
So the rules are the same for everyone, but is the cash the same for everyone??

Without a hard cap this is all just lip service.