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Wade>You
12-22-2011, 08:46 PM
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/sfl-miami-heat-micky-arison-s122211,0,980850.story

"For us to have to pay revenue sharing to larger-market teams was disturbing, and we will. And so that was a kind of protest vote on our part."
...

"I think this whole big-market, small-market thing is a little bit overstated in certain areas," he said. "First of all, people keep talking about us as big market, and we're smaller than Minnesota.

"It's important to understand it really isn't big-market, it's kind of attractive teams and those teams that are less attractive."

It sucks being a small market and the perception is that you're a big market, so you get screwed over by that perception.

LBJ, Bosh, Wade was supposed to be a victory for small market teams everywhere that THEY TOO can attract stars over the REAL BIG MARKETS like CHICAGO, LA, and NY. Instead, bigger markets like the Clipper benefited from the new CBA (and of course, David Stern playing GM and building their team).

RLundi
12-22-2011, 08:48 PM
Is this a joke?

Miami is the fourth or fifth largest market in the United States.

GhostfaceDrilla
12-22-2011, 08:49 PM
Uhhh, Miami is one of the largest...

Yeah because LeBron and Bosh teaming up with Wade was going to help a player like Dwight or Deron go to Minnesota or Sacramento....

beasted86
12-22-2011, 08:51 PM
Is this a joke?

Miami is the fourth or fifth largest market in the United States.

Fact check yourself. Just a quick Google search is all it takes.




But I'm sure you are too lazy.

Wade>You
12-22-2011, 08:52 PM
Is this a joke?

Miami is the fourth or fifth largest market in the United States.Says who, you?

Where are your facts or evidence?

I'm not gonna go back and look through all the facts/evidence I've posted that shows Miami is not a big market, it's all in my posts, but trust me: you're argument is absolutely flawed if you're basing it on perception, opinions, and subjectivism.

Wade>You
12-22-2011, 08:53 PM
uhhh, miami is one of the largest...

Yeah because lebron and bosh teaming up with wade was going to help a player like dwight or deron go to minnesota or sacramento....^ wrong!

beasted86
12-22-2011, 08:53 PM
Miami is a middle market team in reality. LA, NYK, CHI, BOS, SF/OAK, DAL, PHI, DET, HOU are all larger just off the top of my head. They are probably the 11th largest market if I really had to guess before researching.

kozelkid
12-22-2011, 08:53 PM
Lol, if the 5th largest city in the US and one of the largest international culture and trading centers is a "small market", then some one clearly doesn't know what "small market" means or is full of ****.

HuRRiCaNeS324
12-22-2011, 08:54 PM
Lol, if the 5th largest city in the US and one of the largest international culture and trading centers is a "small market", then some one clearly doesn't know what "small market" means or is full of ****.

How are we 5th largest? I dont get it?

RLundi
12-22-2011, 08:55 PM
Says who, you?

Where are your facts or evidence?

I'm not gonna go back and look through all the facts/evidence I've posted that shows Miami is not a big market, it's all in my posts, but trust me: you're argument is absolutely flawed if you're basing it on perception, opinions, and subjectivism.

:facepalm:

I'm basing this on knowledge, that you apparently don't have. But please, for a second, before I post my evidence, humor me -- do you even know what constitutes a large-market team?

kjoke
12-22-2011, 08:56 PM
IMO Miami is a Fringe big market city.

kozelkid
12-22-2011, 08:56 PM
How are we 5th largest? I dont get it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_urban_areas

Do you get it now?

ChiSox219
12-22-2011, 08:56 PM
Miami is on par with Boston and Dallas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_city

Canterbury
12-22-2011, 08:57 PM
Just because it isn't considered a small market in the economic sense does not make it the "little guy". Miami is on the map. It is the setting of shows and movies. Players would obviously prefer to play in Miami than Minnesota. If both teams were in the same situation and could sign Lebron, Wade, and Bosh, they would pick Miami always.

kozelkid
12-22-2011, 08:58 PM
IMO Miami is a Fringe big market city.

In terms of population? Probably. Along with Philly, Boston, Dallas, and a few others.

However, their glam, wealth and influence in the international level is what separates them from many and makes them big market.

beasted86
12-22-2011, 08:58 PM
IMO Miami is a Fringe big market city.

That's fair.

But teams like Philly, Detroit, etc. have recently only been considered smaller because they have mediocre teams with poor management.

RLundi
12-22-2011, 09:01 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Ar eas

With nearly 5.6 million residents, Miami is 8th.

macc
12-22-2011, 09:02 PM
I guess I don't fully understand what constitues a large market team. When I hear "market" I think business. Is this correct? Or is it strictly on population? Here is a link below showing populations and Miami is more populated than Minneapolis. Though I don't know if it takes into account the surrounding areas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population

beasted86
12-22-2011, 09:03 PM
Miami is on par with Boston and Dallas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_city

And Atlanta is on par with Boston and Dallas?

Washington is bigger than Boston and Dallas?

There are very few sources that rank sports markets or media markets accurately. So links like that are somewhat useless.

kozelkid
12-22-2011, 09:05 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Ar eas

With nearly 5.6 million residents, Miami is 8th.

Ya, I didn't realize about the update in our census.

Either way, Kjoke is right, at least to a degree, in terms of population alone, they're a "fringe big market".

However, their wealth, location and lifestyle is what absolutely labels them as a big market place. Especially when labeled as a "big market" in the context of where most players want to go. You better believe it's certainly in the top 5.

RLundi
12-22-2011, 09:06 PM
I guess I don't fully understand what constitues a large market team. When I hear "market" I think business. Is this correct? Or is it strictly on population? Here is a link below showing populations and Miami is more populated than Minneapolis. Though I don't know if it takes into account the surrounding areas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population

City proper populations mean almost nothing.

The important thing is urban area population. And Miami is the eighth largest city in the U.S. according to the latest census.

Corey
12-22-2011, 09:06 PM
Misinformed posters are misinformed.

Minny is a larger TV market

SlimKid
12-22-2011, 09:08 PM
I could be wrong, but I always thought the size of the market was based on the media size, not necessarily population size.. Therefore this makes more sense..

http://www.sportstvjobs.com/resources/local-tv-market-sizes-dma.html

I could be wrong though

kjoke
12-22-2011, 09:09 PM
In terms of population? Probably. Along with Philly, Boston, Dallas, and a few others.

However, their glam, wealth and influence in the international level is what separates them from many and makes them big market.

Could that be said about the Marlins? I may be wrong here, but prior from Lebron Wade Bosh all came here, I think most people called Miami a Upper mid-city.

Corey
12-22-2011, 09:09 PM
I could be wrong, but I always thought the size of the market was based on the media size, not necessarily population size.. Therefore this makes more sense..

http://www.sportstvjobs.com/resources/local-tv-market-sizes-dma.html

I could be wrong though
Correct

justinnum1
12-22-2011, 09:10 PM
:yawn:

kjoke
12-22-2011, 09:12 PM
Correct

Ehh (not to your post) but that link is kind of mislabeled. They separated West Palm Beach from the Big three down here. Most of the three are all Miami fans.

spreadeagle
12-22-2011, 09:16 PM
im to lazy to research size of markets but in the NBA its about "preferred destinations" not how many ppl actually live there...and Miami should be damn thankful they have south beach,I dont feel bad for them lol go team up in Memphis then we can talk

Bubba313
12-22-2011, 09:17 PM
Who cares if Miami is bigger than Minnesota or not? It's not like the Big Three vindicated small market teams. A player goes to Miami for the lifestyle, the weather, etc. not because the population is higher or the tv rankings

spreadeagle
12-22-2011, 09:18 PM
Could that be said about the Marlins? I may be wrong here, but prior from Lebron Wade Bosh all came here, I think most people called Miami a Upper mid-city.

Black dudes love Miami..Every Rapper now lives there lol "no racist stuff here just what I see"

TheBlackHole
12-22-2011, 09:21 PM
Yea, I live like 30 minutes north of west palm beach, and its still definitely heat territory, so its definitely more than whats on that list.

RLundi
12-22-2011, 09:26 PM
Misinformed posters are misinformed.

Minny is a larger TV market

Television alone does not constitute a market.

Population, radio station, newspaper and Internet offerings all contribute to a media market. Furthermore, markets can overlap within a single MSA and they are consequently separated. A market is just an area where the population receives the same programming. For instance, Miami and West Palm Beach are considered separate markets, which is ludicrous, considering they fall under the same MSA.

Miami is much larger than Minneapolis, that's just a fact.

FLWolvesFan
12-22-2011, 09:28 PM
I'm guessing the maps that determine a metro area's population are different than those that determine TV market size. The whole east coast just north of Miami is a big metroplex and I'm guessing a decent chunk of those cities aren't included in the Miami TV market size equation.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
12-22-2011, 09:39 PM
Minnesota is a larger TV market than Miami. That's what he probably meant. Minnesota is also a better professional sports market than Miami(I know what I'm going to get from this comment too.)

RLundi
12-22-2011, 09:44 PM
Minnesota is a larger TV market than Miami. That's what he probably meant. Minnesota is also a better professional sports market than Miami(I know what I'm going to get from this comment too.)

Correct. Minneapolis is a larger television market and probably better professional sports market.

When it comes to sports, Florida as a state is just horrible -- too many transplants and a seeming general indifference.

Raph12
12-22-2011, 10:26 PM
SMALL BASKETBALL MARKET!!! Not by population!

They're still attractive to FAs because of the oppurtunity to win and the weather.

Vinylman
12-22-2011, 10:34 PM
SMALL BASKETBALL MARKET!!! Not by population!

They're still attractive to FAs because of the oppurtunity to win and the weather.

and most importantly taxes...

kozelkid
12-22-2011, 10:58 PM
In terms of population? Probably. Along with Philly, Boston, Dallas, and a few others.

However, their glam, wealth and influence in the international level is what separates them from many and makes them big market.

Could that be said about the Marlins? I may be wrong here, but prior from Lebron Wade Bosh all came here, I think most people called Miami a Upper mid-city.

Idk, I always thought of them as big market for their international influence. :shrug:

As for the marlins ownership, I think that had largely to do with a historically cheap ownership...

MacFitz92
12-22-2011, 11:14 PM
Miami is 44th in population...

Where PSD NBA Forum members get their facts.. who knows..

MacFitz92
12-22-2011, 11:24 PM
New York, L.A., Houston, Chicago, Dallas, Phoenix, San Antonio, Dallas, Charlotte, Detroit, Memphis, Boston, Washington, Denver, Oklahoma City, Milwaukee, Portland, Sacramento, and Atlanta

ALL (19 basketball cities) have higher populated cities than Miami. I got my information from the 2010 census.

topdog
12-22-2011, 11:24 PM
Miami is 44th in population...

Where PSD NBA Forum members get their facts.. who knows..

That does not equate to "market size" which can vary depending upon which variables you account for and which areas encompass "Miami" (a city) and "Minnesota" (a state).

MacFitz92
12-22-2011, 11:26 PM
...and yeah. Population doesn't necessarily equate a big market. There are other things that go into it, such as 'chance to win' (CP3 going to a **** franchise because Griffin+) or a nice place to live, or whatever it may be.

Plus different team managements have different checkbooks, and priorities (winning, making money, etc.)

MacFitz92
12-22-2011, 11:27 PM
That does not equate to "market size" which can vary depending upon which variables you account for and which areas encompass "Miami" (a city) and "Minnesota" (a state).

I'm fully aware, but there were a couple knuckleheads claiming Miami was 5th in population.

topdog
12-22-2011, 11:33 PM
I'm fully aware, but there were a couple knuckleheads claiming Miami was 5th in population.

Gotchya! Didn't feel like reading through pages of random contradictory "facts."

The biggest thing to me about this "small market" Miami argument is that this thread starts out comparing a city (one of 2 basketball cities in Florida) to a state.

mikealike305
12-22-2011, 11:38 PM
Miami is 44th in population...

Where PSD NBA Forum members get their facts.. who knows..

Numbers like this are very misguiding IMO.

The CITY of Miami isn't to large with around 450,000 people, but Miami dade county has almost 3,000,000 people. Just like the city of milwaukee has about 600,000 and Milwaukee county has just less than a million

mikealike305
12-22-2011, 11:42 PM
Miami is 44th in population...

Where PSD NBA Forum members get their facts.. who knows..


I'm fully aware, but there were a couple knuckleheads claiming Miami was 5th in population.

Miami dade county is 8th in population

kozelkid
12-22-2011, 11:47 PM
Miami is 44th in population...

Where PSD NBA Forum members get their facts.. who knows..

Look up the term "metropolitan area" or bother actually clicking the links. Seriously when have you ever heard someone discuss the size of a city or "market" strictly on the city and not the WHOLE metropolis.

And here I thought people knew what a metropolitan area means after 5th grade. I guess I was mistaken.

Ty Fast
12-22-2011, 11:53 PM
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/sfl-miami-heat-micky-arison-s122211,0,980850.story
It sucks being a small market and the perception is that you're a big market, so you get screwed over by that perception.

LBJ, Bosh, Wade was supposed to be a victory for small market teams everywhere that THEY TOO can attract stars over the REAL BIG MARKETS like CHICAGO, LA, and NY. Instead, bigger markets like the Clipper benefited from the new CBA (and of course, David Stern playing GM and building their team).

location has a lot to do with that too. basketballl is played during winter months and miami is always warm. plus its a gorgeous city.

kjoke
12-22-2011, 11:58 PM
Miami is 44th in population...

Where PSD NBA Forum members get their facts.. who knows..

That argument is invalid. For example did you know that Miami, and Miami Beach are considered two separate cities?

kjoke
12-23-2011, 12:01 AM
Idk, I always thought of them as big market for their international influence. :shrug:

As for the marlins ownership, I think that had largely to do with a historically cheap ownership...

That too :laugh2:

MacFitz92
12-23-2011, 12:01 AM
Glad you guys can read. Thanks.

kmkottke9313
12-23-2011, 12:32 AM
and most importantly taxes...

Exactly! I may be mistaken but I am pretty sure you don't pay state income taxes in florida. Sorry if this has already but stated. I skipped a few comments.

Bramaca
12-23-2011, 12:43 AM
Miami is the biggest metropolitan area in the SE United States, which includes everything from DC south. Also, considering that Miami's metro population is greater then the population for the entire state of Minnesota, Arison's claim that Miami is a smaller market then Minny is a massive exageration. There are also a couple million more in Miami's drawing area that aren't taken into account in metro population.

LA, NY, and Chicago are huge markets, Miami is right around the top of the list of the large markets right behind them.

Jint.
12-23-2011, 12:45 AM
Minnesota

shizzle09
12-23-2011, 01:09 AM
http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2011/03/nba-market-size-numbers-game/

Corey
12-23-2011, 01:11 AM
Ehh (not to your post) but that link is kind of mislabeled. They separated West Palm Beach from the Big three down here. Most of the three are all Miami fans.

I didnt click his link to be honest, I was agreeing with his premise that TV market size is the determining factor.

kjoke
12-23-2011, 01:15 AM
I didnt click his link to be honest, I was agreeing with his premise that TV market size is the determining factor.

That makes sense

FriedTofuz
12-23-2011, 03:17 AM
This makes no sense. Miami has the big 3, theyre market should have increased due to the increase in revenue of ticket sales, merchandise and concession.

Punk
12-23-2011, 03:20 AM
LOL Why are people going hard to defend Miami? They are 44th overall. They never increase their ticket sales and revenue when it comes to Miami Heat and Marlin games.

Minnesota is clearly the bigger market than Miami but Miami is the most desirable location.

gotoHcarolina52
12-23-2011, 03:37 AM
Lol, if the 5th largest city in the US and one of the largest international culture and trading centers is a "small market", then some one clearly doesn't know what "small market" means or is full of ****.


Ya, I didn't realize about the update in our census.

Either way, Kjoke is right, at least to a degree, in terms of population alone, they're a "fringe big market".

However, their wealth, location and lifestyle is what absolutely labels them as a big market place. Especially when labeled as a "big market" in the context of where most players want to go. You better believe it's certainly in the top 5.


Look up the term "metropolitan area" or bother actually clicking the links. Seriously when have you ever heard someone discuss the size of a city or "market" strictly on the city and not the WHOLE metropolis.

And here I thought people knew what a metropolitan area means after 5th grade. I guess I was mistaken.

All of this :clap:

Kyle N.
12-23-2011, 03:45 AM
LOL Why are people going hard to defend Miami? They are 44th overall. They never increase their ticket sales and revenue when it comes to Miami Heat and Marlin games.

Minnesota is clearly the bigger market than Miami but Miami is the most desirable location.

:facepalm:

That's just the CITY PROPER. It doesn't account for EVERY SINGLE CITY DIRECTLY NEXT TO MIAMI. The area is way bigger than just the city limits.

Bulls_fan90
12-23-2011, 04:03 AM
SMALL BASKETBALL MARKET!!! Not by population!

They're still attractive to FAs because of the oppurtunity to win and the weather.

And the lifestyle. Well said.

THE MTL
12-23-2011, 04:24 AM
Miami isnt a true big market but now it is blown out of proportion cause of Bron, Wade, Bosh. Seriously, its always MIA, NYC, LAL, CHI

abe_froman
12-23-2011, 04:31 AM
is this a joke or are you trying to make yourself feel better and try distancing yourself from the ny's,la's.either way no,miami is a big market,one of the biggest in north america(as it encompasses most/all of sofla,and you'd have to be in some serious denial to not recognize that that is big)

jammastershake
12-23-2011, 05:43 AM
this really isnt about small market/big market. it's about location. where is the hot spots to live in and enjoy life away from the court. thats why miami, new york and LA will always win out vs a team like minnesota, atlanta and sacramento.

jammastershake
12-23-2011, 05:45 AM
and the nba is really the only sport this happens in. thank the hip-hop lifestyle if you wanna reason.

Sly Guy
12-23-2011, 04:00 PM
A:
whoever has Lebron, Wade, and Bosh.

GoPacers33
12-23-2011, 04:07 PM
Lol

Evolution23
12-23-2011, 05:02 PM
Minni is a bigger market. Miami is just a vacation spot. Fans are fair weather and didn't really care about basketball until the arrival of the big 2.

topdog
12-23-2011, 05:20 PM
Population of Minneapolis: 382,578

Population of Miami: 399,457

Just on the basis of population, Miami is bigger than the city the Target Center is in. That does not encompass market size however.

The fundamental flaw of this whole argument is people keep comparing Miami (a city) with Minnesota (a state)

Stuckey#3
12-23-2011, 05:20 PM
Fact check yourself. Just a quick Google search is all it takes.




But I'm sure you are too lazy.

It's funny that so many bandwagoners are blatantly rude and arrogant and then wonder why people hate them. It takes a certain personality to be a Heat fan... borderline narcissistic douchebag.

From wikipedia: "Miami's metro area is the seventh most populous and fifth-largest urban area in the United States, with a population of around 5.5 million"

Take a ****ing sociology class... I don't blame you I blame your teachers.

Dramedy
12-23-2011, 05:42 PM
It's not just about size or TV market. Miami is essentially a mini New York with better weather. It's the perfect destination for someone in their 20's, tons of clubs, tons of women to ****, I think when people talk about big markets it's not necessarily about the size of the city (Manhattan isn't exactly big on it's own), but about the perception of the city in the media. To the media, the four cities that are most important (or at least are covered the most) are New York, LA, Miami, Chicago in that order.

Corey
12-23-2011, 05:44 PM
This makes no sense. Miami has the big 3, theyre market should have increased due to the increase in revenue of ticket sales, merchandise and concession.

Getting Lebron James doesn't make more homes with TVs magically appear.

Corey
12-23-2011, 05:47 PM
Population of Minneapolis: 382,578

Population of Miami: 399,457

Just on the basis of population, Miami is bigger than the city the Target Center is in. That does not encompass market size however.

The fundamental flaw of this whole argument is people keep comparing Miami (a city) with Minnesota (a state)

Um, no.

Refer to this. Scroll down to the chart. (http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2011/03/nba-market-size-numbers-game/)

XerxestheGreat
12-23-2011, 05:56 PM
"big market" is code for good teams..ie Lakers, Celtics, Spurs etc. "Small market" refers to crappy teams who can't win or sustain themselves. Clippers until now, were small market eventhough they play in LA.

goldenstater
12-23-2011, 06:06 PM
both are decent size markets, not large by any means in media attention or Metro( there are quite a few bigger markets than both) but as a whole Miami is more of a world city with more international attention because the fact that its a desirable city to go to. similar to how florence isnt the biggest Italy but has international attention than some others. that make it a more notable city imo. but neither in terms in Market media attention are huge. its just Miami has south beach and Minni has the tundra so it gets more attention obviously.

Bang Bros89
12-23-2011, 06:10 PM
Do you people actually think players care how many fans watch their games on tv? Miami is a great city to live in. I'm sure Minnesota is a great place, but millionaires in their 20's probably aren't too excited about going there.

And Spurs are a small market

goldenstater
12-23-2011, 06:21 PM
Do you people actually think players care how many fans watch their games on tv? Miami is a great city to live in. I'm sure Minnesota is a great place, but millionaires in their 20's probably aren't too excited about going there.

And Spurs are a small market

i think you hit it. its desirability. some cities just have that whether they are small, big, or in between.

SwatTeam
12-23-2011, 06:31 PM
It's funny that so many bandwagoners are blatantly rude and arrogant and then wonder why people hate them. It takes a certain personality to be a Heat fan... borderline narcissistic douchebag.

From wikipedia: "Miami's metro area is the seventh most populous and fifth-largest urban area in the United States, with a population of around 5.5 million"

Take a ****ing sociology class... I don't blame you I blame your teachers.

You're out of line. I'm not here trying to defend fan bases, but I hate people who always target and type-cast/generalize a certain fan base. I'm not a heat fan - actually a Hawks fan, more importantly an NBA fan, but you need to get off your high horse and STFU.

Yes, the Miami fan base has a bunch of band wagoners but so did the Bulls fan base back in the 90's when Jordan played. Greatness attracts fans. If you like the NBA at all you would realize that more fans to the game is whats important in building the sport and expanding the popularity of the league. Yes, some fans lack knowledge but over time and years, fans can gain knowledge. I know many bandwagon bulls fans from the 90's who are huge fans of the game today. No need to be a douche. Didn't your fan base cause the malice in the palace? What makes you a better fan? Your entire fan base is a taint on the sport. See what generalizations do and type casting everyone does?

AddiX
12-23-2011, 06:31 PM
You guys are missing the point, the point is there Miami pays $ to larger markets in revenue sharing.

I personally agree that they should after the heist they pulled getting the 3 biggest free gents fir nothing, and the fact that they aren't a traditional smaller market team by any means.

IMO 3-4 of these small market teams will Be gone in the next 5 years. what Mia did completely changed the NBA for better and for worse.

cubbies7177
12-23-2011, 06:43 PM
You're out of line. I'm not here trying to defend fan bases, but I hate people who always target and type-cast/generalize a certain fan base. I'm not a heat fan - actually a Hawks fan, more importantly an NBA fan, but you need to get off your high horse and STFU.

Yes, the Miami fan base has a bunch of band wagoners but so did the Bulls fan base back in the 90's when Jordan played. Greatness attracts fans. If you like the NBA at all you would realize that more fans to the game is whats important in building the sport and expanding the popularity of the league. Yes, some fans lack knowledge but over time and years, fans can gain knowledge. I know many bandwagon bulls fans from the 90's who are huge fans of the game today. No need to be a douche. Didn't your fan base cause the malice in the palace? What makes you a better fan? Your entire fan base is a taint on the sport. See what generalizations do and type casting everyone does?

It's different. I agree that greatness attracts fans, but it's all about attitude. When I was 7 years old, I had absolutely no idea what "good" or "team" basketball was. I just rooted for Jordan blindly because he was actually the craziest athletic figure I'd ever seen. But, as I grew up and learned more about the game, I was never the little **** that only said "The Bulls are the only competitive team, we are definitely going to win it all, obviously every other team sucks balls and my team is the best"

That's what bothers me about Heat fans. It's not that they're new or "bandwaggoning," it's that they front like they've watched basketball for years; they've been following this team for years; and most importantly, that they know everything there is to know about basketball after 1 season.

Sportfan
12-23-2011, 06:48 PM
I'd love to live in San Diego.....don't see any successful sport teams, sorry.

MickeyMgl
12-23-2011, 07:09 PM
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/sfl-miami-heat-micky-arison-s122211,0,980850.story
It sucks being a small market and the perception is that you're a big market, so you get screwed over by that perception.

LBJ, Bosh, Wade was supposed to be a victory for small market teams everywhere that THEY TOO can attract stars over the REAL BIG MARKETS like CHICAGO, LA, and NY. Instead, bigger markets like the Clipper benefited from the new CBA (and of course, David Stern playing GM and building their team).


In the other hand, it's good to be the Clippers, where you can be a big-market team tha gets treated like a small-market team just because you have a crappy, meiserly owner.

KnicksR4Real
12-23-2011, 07:09 PM
It's average

tbone2171
12-23-2011, 07:09 PM
Why are basketball fans so obsessed with large market / small market?

RLundi
12-23-2011, 07:14 PM
Minni is a bigger market. Miami is just a vacation spot. Fans are fair weather and didn't really care about basketball until the arrival of the big 2.

Incorrect.

Miami is nearly double the population of Minneapolis.

It's not just a vacation spot when 5.5 million people LIVE there. Yes, the fans are extremely fair-weather, but that's because of all the transplants and immigrants. But Miami is much larger than Minneapolis.

Stuckey#3
12-23-2011, 08:40 PM
Didn't your fan base cause the malice in the palace? What makes you a better fan? Your entire fan base is a taint on the sport. See what generalizations do and type casting everyone does?

At least our fans come to our games... I feel bad for the Hawks and thier ****** fanbase/city. BTW Miami fans talk more **** than any other fanbase on this forum.

chilly
12-23-2011, 09:04 PM
I think you guys are taking it a little bit too literal.

I think when they mention "big market" & "small market" it's about the OWNERS who have a lot of money to spend with the fact that a TEAM or CITY has an advantage when it comes to signing FAs.

Big market in the sense that they have MORE to offer & are more marketable. Don't know, don't care about if Minnesota or Miami is more populated or who makes more money. Fact is LeBron is MORE marketable being a MIAMI HEAT than a MINNESOTA TIMBERWOLF. Period.

PrettyBoyJ
12-23-2011, 09:07 PM
You guys realize when someone talks about having a bigger market it means media coverage and not population.. Miami media market is low really because of its location. Who watches TV in Miami when when there's a beach and good weather all year round..

Here are the top 20 MEDIA Markets in the U.S.

1. New York

2. Los Angeles

3. Chicago

4. Philadelphia

5. Dallas-Fort Worth

6. San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose

7. Boston

8. Atlanta

9. Washington, D.C.

10. Houston

11. Detroit

12. Phoenix

13. Seattle-Tacoma

14. Tampa-St. Petersburg-Sarasota

15. Minneapolis-St. Paul

16. Miami-Fort Lauderdale

17. Denver

18. Cleveland-Akron

19. Orlando-Daytona Beach-Melbourne

20. Sacramento

twin4life
12-23-2011, 09:15 PM
Minnesota is not to big at all no one wants to come to minny because "its too cold here" MAN UP!!

KingstonHawke
12-23-2011, 09:20 PM
I don't think people really understand how ghetto Miami really is. Miami get's all the glory because the weather attracts celebrities, but I lived in Minnesota too, and there are T'wolve fans all the way from Minneapolis all the way to Sioux City.

RLundi
12-23-2011, 09:24 PM
You guys realize when someone talks about having a bigger market it means media coverage and not population.. Miami media market is low really because of its location. Who watches TV in Miami when when there's a beach and good weather all year round..


You could say the exact same thing about Los Angeles. Or New York, for that matter, of having more things to do than just sitting home watching television.

Population matters, there's just no getting around that.

Corey
12-23-2011, 09:33 PM
Population matters, there's just no getting around that.

Population =/= market size.

Raps18-19 Champ
12-23-2011, 09:35 PM
For sports, Miami is a top 5 attraction sport for athletes. Hence it being considered a big market in sports terms.

Bang Bros89
12-23-2011, 09:43 PM
I don't think people really understand how ghetto Miami really is. Miami get's all the glory because the weather attracts celebrities, but I lived in Minnesota too, and there are T'wolve fans all the way from Minneapolis all the way to Sioux City.

So? Its not like Lebron or Wade live in Overtown. Populatution doesn't mean anything to players, its the destination. Big Market/Small Market thats not a factor. Location and Owner Competence are.

Why do people have to force things into categories? Miami isn't a typical "market."

Bramaca
12-23-2011, 10:07 PM
Population =/= market size.

Minneapolis metro population - 3,615,902
Miami metro population - 5,547,051

Minneapolis tv market - 1,721,940
Miami tv market - 1,583,800

This is the one that people are claiming says that Minny is a bigger market then Miami, I believe you posted a link to it. But as pointed out by some others in this thread it doesn't take into account West Palm Beach which is part of Miami's metro area and on its own is the #38 tv market in the US. When included in Miami's tv market (which it should be) the number of tv households are 2,371,820 which puts it right between Washington and Boston.

If you want to take the region into account

Minnesota population (entire state) - 5,344,861
Southern Florida (1/4 size of Minnesota) - 8,064,077

Any way you cut it Miami is a much larger market then Minnesota (and Minnesota is actually a mid-sized market in the NBA). I don't know why this is even a discussion.

NoahH
12-23-2011, 10:21 PM
To everyone posting false facts: Isn't Miami the 44th largest city and Minnesota is the 48th largest? Use google please.

SwatTeam
12-23-2011, 10:25 PM
At least our fans come to our games... I feel bad for the Hawks and thier ****** fanbase/city. BTW Miami fans talk more **** than any other fanbase on this forum.

Hahaha OK buddy. You seem like you're in high school. I'll refrain from speaking to the immature. You're obviously a bitter pistons fan and in retrospect if I were a pistons fan and seeing what Joe Dumars is doing to my team, I would be too. Enjoy being a fringe playoffs team for the next decade. I'll take my crappy middle of the pack playoffs hawks team any day.

Wrench
12-23-2011, 10:33 PM
http://www.sportstvjobs.com/resources/local-tv-market-sizes-dma.html

That shows the rankings of the Markets. Minneapolis 15th and Miami 16th.

homestarunner93
12-23-2011, 10:49 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_urban_areas

Do you get it now?

Total failure. That includes all urban areas around Miami. Miami is the 44th largest city in the United States, and the 12th largest media market. I wouldn't call that a big market at all. Given the general lack of fan support in the area as well, it really doesn't function as a big market in a sports-sense.

PrettyBoyJ
12-23-2011, 11:16 PM
You could say the exact same thing about Los Angeles. Or New York, for that matter, of having more things to do than just sitting home watching television.

Population matters, there's just no getting around that.

Not necessarily.. San Antonio is the 7th largest city in the U.S. but is ranked 37th in the media market

PrettyBoyJ
12-23-2011, 11:21 PM
http://www.sportstvjobs.com/resources/local-tv-market-sizes-dma.html

That shows the rankings of the Markets. Minneapolis 15th and Miami 16th.

This pretty much sums up the debate.. Minny has bigger market the Miami and population plays a part but not major part in a cities media market

SportsAndrew25
12-23-2011, 11:37 PM
As far as I'm concerned, Miami has the larger metropolitan area. Since when is Minnesota a big market?

SportsAndrew25
12-23-2011, 11:46 PM
How dare we disrespect Miami? It's the home of my ***** Rozay!

kozelkid
12-24-2011, 12:43 AM
Total failure. That includes all urban areas around Miami. Miami is the 44th largest city in the United States, and the 12th largest media market. I wouldn't call that a big market at all. Given the general lack of fan support in the area as well, it really doesn't function as a big market in a sports-sense.

Jesus ****ing Christ. Read the ****ing thread.

No one cares about the city population. When you look at a big market, you usually look at the metropolitan area as a whole.

How many ****ing times do I have to repeat this.

Seriously, when do people ever care about the city ALONE.


To everyone posting false facts: Isn't Miami the 44th largest city and Minnesota is the 48th largest? Use google please.

Minnesota isn't a city.

BKLYNpigeon
12-24-2011, 01:37 AM
Its not always about how big the city is or how big their market is.

Miami may not be a bigger market the Minnesota, but its a better market.

Miami has better weather, girls, lifestyle, its a bigger market in terms of Marketing and commercial appeal. not to mention no state tax.

other then south beach, Florida is a SHlT Hole. bunch of Crack Heads, Meth labs and OXY dopers and "pain management clinics" lol. not to mention, they also rigged the 2000 elections.

Corey
12-24-2011, 02:15 AM
Jesus ****ing Christ. Read the ****ing thread.

No one cares about the city population. When you look at a big market, you usually look at the metropolitan area as a whole.

How many ****ing times do I have to repeat this.

Seriously, when do people ever care about the city ALONE.


...Why so serious?

slack_justin
12-24-2011, 02:24 AM
Miami is44th in population and minneapolis is 48th. the state of minnessota is obviously much bigger than that.
minnesota is probably all in for their team while florida has two teams to split and a ton of retired old people who couldnt care less.

kozelkid
12-24-2011, 02:30 AM
...Why so serious?

That tends to be the case when people don't read and rush to make rash statements/observations.

JEDean89
12-24-2011, 02:41 AM
miami is the 5th largest urban population and the 8th largest metro population. i agree that population isn't all that matters, look at OKC compared to Philly, but it is a good measure. wouldn't be at all surprised it Minnesota becomes a succesful nba franchise now that they got rubio and should make a playoff push. if they trade a forward or 2 for a center or shooting guard, they will definitely make the playoffs.

socalswag24
12-24-2011, 02:47 AM
smfh.....

topdog
12-24-2011, 03:01 AM
Um, no.

Refer to this. Scroll down to the chart. (http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2011/03/nba-market-size-numbers-game/)

1. I'm primarily responding to all these population comparisons and whatnot where people are bringing up city-limits populations.

2. MPLS-STP does not encompass the whole of the Timberwolves' market as they are simply the 2 largest cities. There is a larger population that can and does watch as well as North and South Dakota.

3. I don't quite get what's keeping this argument alive when we're talking about a state's 2nd team. "Media markets" are a very inexact science.

Foye
12-24-2011, 09:17 AM
Lol @ OP not even being able to write Minnesota without a spelling mistake. :D

Kyle N.
12-24-2011, 07:51 PM
To everyone posting false facts: Isn't Miami the 44th largest city and Minnesota is the 48th largest? Use google please.

In addition to everything everybody else had said, learn enough about geography to know what information you're getting from Google.

Wade>You
05-01-2012, 02:10 PM
I just found this article and wanted to leave it here:

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2011/03/nba-market-size-numbers-game/
With so much talk about how big market NBA teams have a better chance of winning than their small-market counterparts, here’s a quick look at some misconceptions about market size in the NBA.

Of the 29 U.S.-based NBA teams, 22 play in one of the nation’s top 25 television markets. Considering that there are 210 Nielsen-designated television markets in the United States, an argument can be made that there are zero small market NBA teams. The league’s smallest TV market, New Orleans, is 52nd.

That being said, some NBA markets are certainly smaller than others. Take as an example Miami-Ft. Lauderdale, the nation’s #16 market. With its 1.581 million TV homes, Miami is nowhere close to New York (#1, 7.515M), Los Angeles (#2, 5.667M) or Chicago (#3, 3.503M). It is, however, barely ahead of Cleveland (#18, 1.526M), Orlando (#19, 1.453M), and Sacramento (#20, 1.409M).

In fact, LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and company play in a smaller market than the Timberwolves (#15 Minneapolis has 1.754 million homes) and Pistons (#11 market Detroit has 1.884 million).

Of course, it was James, Wade and Chris Bosh who began the latest ‘sky is falling’ storyline in the NBA, that of superstar players leaving their beleaguered small market teams for big market bullies.

AIRMAR72
05-01-2012, 02:13 PM
miami

Big Zo
05-01-2012, 02:32 PM
You're still with this ****? Lol

JordansBulls
05-01-2012, 02:56 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_urban_areas

Do you get it now?

Holy ****, I thought Houston was 4th and we are now 10th??:speechless:

Redskins10
05-01-2012, 02:58 PM
Dumb thread is dumb. Miami is a large market.

NYY 26 to 7
05-01-2012, 03:12 PM
I just found this article and wanted to leave it here:

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2011/03/nba-market-size-numbers-game/

Why are you so intent on people considering Miami small market? It isn't even close to small market for many many factors people have named just drop it. You don't get awards for being small market. It is large in population as people have established, the Heat have a national attention and did well before LeBron or even Wade came there, it is a destination city and often filled with tourists who take in games, there is very high end money in the area, and is a center for culture and entertainment. What are you trying to say? Have you been to Minny, Ctown, Sactown? People that live there don't even want to be there.

And to the point of the articles rant I highly doubt Miami is paying any large market revenur sharing such as NY, Boston, Philly, LA, Chicago, Dallas, because they are all over the cap.

rhino17
05-01-2012, 03:16 PM
Holy ****, I thought Houston was 4th and we are now 10th??:speechless:

those stats are debatable. Houston is the 4th largest city and 5th largest metro area (6 million+ people)

Not exactly sure what "urban area" is defined as

effen5
05-01-2012, 03:18 PM
Strong thread backfire

kenzo400
05-01-2012, 03:21 PM
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/sports/Which_NBA_Team_is_Worth_the_Most.html

Nba team worth. It doesn't tell you everything but Miami is currently 12th on the list. IT should be some indication of their worth. They are around the middle, not the 5th largest.

BKLYNpigeon
05-01-2012, 03:32 PM
when they say bigger "market", it means TV Market. in all reality a teams real value (or earnings) is about the TV contract they have in place with its Broadcaster. look at it this way.

Portland, average city, passionate fans, and almost always sold out...


The LA Lakers TV deal with FOX is 10X more then what Portland makes for their TV deal.

nycsports2
05-01-2012, 03:33 PM
Its not a huge market but not small either.. Its what comes with miami that seperates it from minnesota, mil, san antonio, etc..

WadeKobe
05-01-2012, 03:37 PM
Is this a joke?

Miami is the fourth or fifth largest market in the United States.


Lol, if the 5th largest city in the US and one of the largest international culture and trading centers is a "small market", then some one clearly doesn't know what "small market" means or is full of ****.


:laugh: :facepalm: :laugh2:

You can't make this **** up, lol!!! hahaha. Miami is the 44th largest city in the United States and the 25th largest media market.

It is surpassed by the likes of:

Cleveland and Sacramento

NYKnicks4511
05-01-2012, 03:45 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Ar eas

According to the US metropolitan stats Miami is #8, and growing. Almost up 2 percent this year. The whole 'Miami is a small market' is complete bull. It is a secondary city, but by no means a Minneapolis, Cleveland, Orlando, Sacramento etc.

LongIslandIcedZ
05-01-2012, 03:54 PM
I can't speak on where Miami ranks as a market. But let's not act like Lebron, Wade, and Bosh came together to stick up and give hope to small market teams.

topdog
05-01-2012, 04:12 PM
1. Let's state what we're really talking about: either Miami-Dade market vs. Mpls-STP or Florida vs. Minnesota (just because there is another Florida team doesn't change the number of people who consider it their home team).

2. Factor in per capita $$$ and how much money you can really charge fans to come to (or simply hold tickets to) a game.

3. This is where "markets" as "small" or "large" get scewed - the dollars from above and the climate of the location. Even if the Wolves have the greatest fan base and draft the best talent, people are still going to say "who wants to sign there - it's really cold and snowy?" And the Heat fan response is "then don't watch" or "then they shouldn't have put a team there." And you know what? I wouldn't watch if we didn't have a local team and the league would lose out on a lot of fans nationally if it chose to avoid cold climates.

CoffeeJanitor
05-01-2012, 06:50 PM
Idk, I always thought of them as big market for their international influence. :shrug:

As for the marlins ownership, I think that had largely to do with a historically cheap ownership...People like to say that no one wants to play in MN because its a small market. The real truth is that we have horrible ownership on most of our teams. No winning culture, everyone is a cheapskate.

effen5
05-01-2012, 07:05 PM
I can't speak on where Miami ranks as a market. But let's not act like Lebron, Wade, and Bosh came together to stick up and give hope to small market teams.

What if they went to Minnesota or Charlotte?

NoahH
05-01-2012, 08:33 PM
Miami has the 44th biggest population for a US city.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Ar eas

With nearly 5.6 million residents, Miami is 8th.

and 8th in metro area