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View Full Version : NBA Redraft Finals! ! ! Nuggets @ Knicks



Ebbs
12-18-2011, 04:14 PM
#1 Denver Nuggets @ #1 New York Knicks

The following teams have been assembled and are now playing each other in a fantasy finals match up. For this game please assume that all players are in their primes and playing at the top of their game. Injuries are not a factor for this game as every single player is playing at his best.

Please take the time to read the write ups and put some thought into your vote as many of the GMs in this spent a lot of time on this game.

No this obviously isn’t real. But this **** is serious, were talking about the NBA finals, not practice.

If you think it’s stupid go to another thread.

Other than that have fun and argue for whom you believe has the better team.

The Knicks have home court advantage in this series

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m576/jbebbs/ALLtimefinals.jpg

Knicks Depth Chart:

C - Artis Gilmore / Zydrunas Ilgauskas / Emeka Okafor
PF - Pau Gasol / Billy Cunningham / Andrei Kirilenko
SF - Detlef Schrempf / Andrei Kirilenko
SG - Michael Jordan / Jim Jackson
PG - Alvin Robertson / Derek Harper / Steve Kerr

Nuggets Depth Chart:

C: Vlade Divac (31) || Caldwell Jones (17)
PF: Tim Duncan (39) || Mychal Thompson (9)
SF: Dave DeBusschere (37) || Latrell Sprewell (7) || Rodney McCray (4)
SG: Tracy McGrady (37) || Latrell Sprewell (7) || Michael Ray Richardson (4)
PG: Chauncey Billups (37) || Michael Ray Richardson (10)

Nuggets Write up:


Congrats to Marbury3orBust for getting this far. You’ve built a phenomenal team and this will be a great matchup for the chip.


The Nuggets are set up to win in the playoffs, with two former Finals MVP’s in Billups and Duncan, and a 2x champion next to a prime Tracy McGrady. McGrady with the leadership of Duncan, DeBusschere, Divac and Billups is a dangerous combination. His shot selection will be optimal next to Billups because Billups has incredible basketball IQ and will eliminate TMac’s bad shot opportunities and spread the ball around while scoring the ball. Duncan is Duncan. He is a fantastic defender, leader, rebounder, post player, you name it. Divac and DeBusschere are the ultimate role players, as both are willing passers who can defend very well and rebound very well while knowing what it takes to win. Now, let’s get into the matchups:

PG Matchup: Chauncey Billups vs. Alvin Robertson

This will be a very interesting matchup. Robertson is an elite defender; while Billups is one of the best two way point guards to play the game. Robertson will play tight defense on Billups in this series, but Billups can score in a variety of ways including shooting from deep, posting up, hitting the mid-range jumper, and getting to the line at a high rate. In fact, Chauncey is an extremely efficient scorer (58.6% TS %) and gets to the free throw line almost 6 times per game. Not only is Billups’ offensive game very efficient, but he’s also a very good defender, making the All-Defensive 2nd team twice in his career. Chauncey also ups his game during the playoffs, earning the Finals MVP in 2004 and leading his team through tough opponents.
Advantage: Nuggets

SG Matchup: Tracy McGrady vs. Michael Jordan

MJ is the greatest of all time. No argument here. This isn’t going to be an easy series for him because McGrady is going to make him work extremely hard on the defensive end. During his prime, he averaged 29 PPG while grabbing about 7 rebounds and dishing for almost 6 assists all at an efficient rate. McGrady was virtually unguardable during his prime because of the combination of his size, willingness to pass, shooting ability and ability to get to the rim. Jordan is a great defender, but McGrady in his prime will not be shut down. Now, I know that M3oB will bring up Tracy’s poor postseason play, but that’s just unfair. His supporting cast was beyond atrocious in Orlando, and if he has a chance to play with players of this caliber, you bet he’s bringing his a game and making MJ work. On the defensive end, McGrady won’t limit MJ himself because that’s not possible. However, he’s going to be in his face and the help defense of DeBusschere, Duncan and Divac will be key in limiting MJ’s effect on offense.
Advantage: Knicks

SF Matchup: Dave DeBusschere vs. Detlef Schrempf

Hall of Famer Dave DeBusschere is a premier rebounder and defender (6x All-Defensive First Team, 2x Champion) and can score if called upon. Schrempf is a great shooter, but he’s going to be limited here because of Dave’s elite defense and DeBusschere’s strength. He is also spectacular rebounder (8th All-Time in TRB% among all players s an SF) and a fantastic defender (9th All Time in DRTG). Now Schrempf is a good rebounder for his position also, but DeBusschere is clearly superior in that aspect of the game. Schrempf isn’t a great defender, so DeBusschere will have no problem getting his points in this series. In addition, DeBusschere flat out knows how to win. He won two championships with NY in the early 70’s and this will be key in helping to lead the team through the playoffs.
Advantage: Nuggets

PF Matchup: Tim Duncan vs. Pau Gasol

This is similar to the MJ-TMac matchup, in that the best of all-time is going against a great player. Duncan in his peek averaged 23.8 PPG, 12.7 RPG, 3.6 APG, and 3.3 ORBPG with a TS% of 56%, and .25 WS/48. He has made 9 All defensive first teams, has won 4 championships, 4 All-Defensive second teams, 9 All-NBA First teams, is a three times finals MVP, and two times NBA MVP. Luckily for us, Gasol isn’t an elite defender and Duncan will have his way in with him in this series. On the other end, we have no doubt that Duncan can limit if not shut down Gasol. Gasol is a crafty player, but he isn’t going to be posting great numbers on Duncan. In their matchups from 2001-2004 (Duncan’s Prime), Duncan averaged 26.5 points with 14.2 RPG with a FG% of 56% 9.6-17.2 while getting to the line 8.2 times per game. In the playoffs in 2004 against Gasol, Duncan averaged 23.4 PPG, 11.6 RPG, 2.8 BPG on 56% shooting while getting to the FT line 8 times per game. Gasol on the other hand averaged 19 PPG, 5.4 RPG on 56% shooting in a losing effort. I think we’ll se a similar series in this matchup by both players. Duncan will dominate the boards while getting his on offense and limiting Pau on defense.
Advantage: Nuggets

C Matchup: Vlade Divac vs. Artis Gilmore
Divac is the ideal fit on this squad. He can defend down low, pass the rock, finish in the paint and knows his role. Gilmore is an extremely efficient scorer, so we’ll look to throw some different looks at him including Caldwell Jones (2x All-Defensive 1st Team), Mychal Thompson, and even some Rasho Nesterovic. These guys both fill their roles well, but Gilmore is more talented, so the Knicks have the advantage here.
Advantage: Knicks

Benches:
The Nuggets have one of the best benches in this entire game, their main three pieces being Caldwell Jones, Latrell Sprewell and Michael Ray Richardson. Richardson and Jones are two time All-Defensive First team members and can come in and provide elite defense off the bench. MRR can play at PG, SG or SF, which gives the team a ton of versatility, playing point-forward, being able to create for his teammates and penetrating the paint. Jones on the other hand can play PF and C and provide elite defense while adding some scoring and rebounding. He will be key in defending Gilmore and forcing turnovers. Sprewell is a good slasher, hard-nosed defender, and a sparkplug off the bench for this team and can give the team some scoring help if DeBusschere is a liability on offense. If we need defense at the wing position to guard Hill, Rodney McCray, also an All-Defensive Team Member can be subbed in as well. Moreover, we have Mychal Thompson, another C/PF who can score the ball and rebound off the bench.


Overall, these teams are very close. The Nuggets have the best PF of all time, while the Knicks have the best player and SG of all time. The frontcourt favors Denver, while the backcourt favors NY slightly. We have an elite defender to guard Detlef who can really make life tough on him and is a proven winner. At SG, MJ will have the advantage, but TMac will thrive in this matchup to get his first ring and will score the ball at a relatively high rate. Then we have the point guard matchup, where Mr. Big Shot faces off against Robertson. Robertson is a great defender, but Billups is just the superior player and playoff performer. The Nuggets have the pieces to win it all: great leaders (Duncan, DeBusschere, Billups), great defenders (DeBusschere, Billups, Duncan), all willing passers, and elite scorers (Duncan and TMac). TMac has had trouble winning in the playoffs, but he’s set up to succeed here playing with Billups, DeBusschere and Duncan, all leaders who know what it takes to win. Take into account home court advantage and a great bench, and you have a winner: Nuggets in 7.

Knicks write up:



C - Artis Gilmore / Zydrunas Ilgauskas / Emeka Okafor
PF - Pau Gasol / Billy Cunningham / Andrei Kirilenko
SF - Detlef Schrempf / Andrei Kirilenko
SG - Michael Jordan / Jim Jackson
PG - Alvin Robertson / Derek Harper / Steve Kerr

Congratulations to Rosh and the Denver Nuggets. He surrounded his star player Tim Duncan with quality pieces and was able to defeat a supremely talented Kings team in the last round. I believe he did a great job but at the end of the day the Knicks have the superior franchise player and the perfect group of teammates to compliment his outstanding skills. Good luck and let’s get right to the matchups. As always, be sure to read the overall breakdown at the end!

PG – Alvin Robertson vs. Chauncey Billups
Alvin Robertson was a former DPOY, 6x All-NBA Defensive Team member, and the All-Time NBA Leader in SPG. He was a triple double threat during his prime and was a consistent mid-high teens scorer who created for his teammates and rebounded. Billups was a better shooter/scorer but I have a funny feeling he’ll have a tougher time in this matchup than against Derek Fisher. We trust Robertson’s defense and 2way abilities to keep this matchup close all series.

SG – Michael Jordan vs. Tracy McGrady
Offensively, McGrady at his peak can be spoken about in the same breath as MJ. They could both drop 30, dish 6-7 assists, rebound, and get to the foul line. MJ was a more efficient scorer but they are similar. I feel comfortable admitting this because I know, and you know, that’s where the comparison ends. Jordan was one of the greatest competitors and defenders the game ever saw. His work ethic is legendary and there was not one postseason where he averaged under 40mpg. McGrady was a lazy defender whose teams consistently fell apart in the postseason. McGrady is one of the worst defensive SGs starting in the entire redraft. MJ would thrive beating McGrady off the dribble constantly forcing his bigs into help defense and fouls. The reverse can’t be said. MJ would make McGrady work and force him well below his regular numbers. If the Nuggets try and be clever and switch, that wouldn’t help them either. Dave Debusschere is more of a PF than a SG and should not be put on MJ. He’s like a Bill Laimbeer/Charles Oakley type of player. How else do you think he got 10 rpg? Guarding wings on the perimeter? No he’s a banger. Imagine a shorter version of Oakley guarding MJ and you’ll see how ridiculous that switch is. His last option is Sprewell off the bench who got torched for 25ppg/7rpg/4apg/3spg on 47% FG shooting MJ in 12 games. Why is that impressive? Because the majority of those matchups were Wizards MJ. You can only imagine what Bulls MJ would have done to him. How’d Spree do? 16.3 ppg on 15.4 FGA per game. That’s right. He shot 38% from the field. That’s what Jordan always did. He dominates you on both ends.

SF – Detlef Schrempf vs. Dave Debusschere
Keep in mind, if they switch and put McGrady on Schrempf then he will be running through screens all game long and getting wide open looks as McGrady is too lazy to chase his way through picks all game. It would also wear McGrady out offensively. I almost hope he switches. However, if he keeps the matchups the same, I like Schrempf here. Like I mentioned in the Jordan matchup, Dave D is more of a 4 and would be stuck out on the perimeter more than ever before guarding Detlef. Schrempf, meanwhile,was so much more than just the shooter people remember him for. First, he is one of the most underrated slashers in NBA History. He consistently averaged 5-6FTA per game and at his peak averaged 8 FTA per game. He also could rebound averaging 9.5 and 9.6 rpg in consecutive seasons. He could pass averaging 6apg at his peak. Throw in the fact that he was a lights out shooter (including averaging 51.4% from 3pt for an entire season) and you have a complete player. He is one of the most efficient scorers in NBA History and had a TS% of 64% at his peak. Meanwhile, Dave Debusschere was a consistent 44% FG shooter with a TS% of 48. This is very low even for his era. His win share totals compare to Antonio Davis and Derrick McKey. I’m not sure how Debusschere would function in his offense while Detlef is the perfect fit for my team.
PF – Pau Gasol vs. Tim Duncan
There are two things that everybody needs to recognize about this matchup. The first is how damn good Pau Gasol has been in his career. He currently Ranks in the top 100 All-Time in: FG%, FTA, Offensive Rebounds, Defensive Rebounds, Blocks, Points Per Game, Rebounds Per Game, Blocks Per Game, PER, TS%, eFG%, Offensive Rebound %, Defensive Rebound %, Total Rebound %, Block %, Offensive Rating, Offensive Win Shares, Win Shares, and Win Share Per 48. The second is the remarkable similarity in production in head to head regular season matchups between him and Duncan.

Tim Duncan (31 games) – 18.7ppg / 11.6 rpg / 3.2 apg / 0.9 spg / 2.2 bpg / 2.2 TOV / 2.7 PF / 50.4 FG% / 66.7 FT% (5.8 FTA per game) in 34 mpg

Pau Gasol (31 games) – 18.5ppg / 7.9 rpg / 3.0 apg / 0.8 spg / 1.7 bpg / 2.5 TOV / 2. 7 PF / 50.3 FG% / 77.4 FT% (5.4 FTA per game) in 36.8 mpg

These are not fluke numbers either. Their very first matchup Duncan played 46 minutes and Gasol played 43 minutes. Duncan is easily the better rebounder but the rest of the numbers are a dead heat. In the smaller sample of playoffs, Duncan takes 6 more shots per game and outscores Gasol by 7 points per game. Not the astronomical mismatch I’m sure the Nuggets will try and sell. Gasol’s numbers remain consistent (16ppg / 8rpg / 3apg / 1.6 bpg on 50% FG) while Duncan’s points per game jump while his scoring becomes slightly less efficient.

C – Artis Gilmore vs. Vlade Divac
Vlade Divac is a better passer. I’ll take big Artis Gilmore in every other aspect of being a center. He’s the better low post scorer. The better rebounder. The better shotblocker. The MUCH better defender (multi-time all defensive team to 0). Plus as another small edge, Gilmore would play more minutes than Divac (who averaged between 30-35 mpg). At age 29 for the Bulls, Gilmore still averaged 39.8 mpg. He consistently averaged 20ppg/12rpg/2bpg with his extremely difficult to defend lefty jump hook. That’s what made him the #1 most efficient scorer in NBA History with a TS% of 64% for his career. That’s without getting a prime Jordan, Gasol, or Schrempf to get easier baskets for him. Gilmore was also known as one of the strongest centers to play the game. He would be able to bully Vlade all series. I see a big advantage for the Knicks here.

Bench: Harper-Jackson-AK47-Cunningham-BigZ-Kerr vs. Richardson-Spree-Thompson-Jones
You need a bench that can give you scoring and defense. I get defense at the PG spot from Harper (2x all-defensive team), the wing from AK47(3x all-defensive team), and in the post from Okafor(Top 15 All-Time Total Rebounding % and #31 All-Time in Block %). In spot opportunities, this would provide me with a nice switch. McGrady only shows 42% FG against AK47 in 16 career matchups and Okafor has held Duncan to 44% from the field in 12 career matchups. Meanwhile I also I get shooting/scoring from Kerr (#1 all-time in 3pt percentage)-Jackson(40% from 3pt)-Cunningham(20ppg scorer)-Big Z. It creates a good balance and allows me to defend and score on a variety of matchups. Plus Cunningham was a 6th man of the year for one of the greatest championship teams (Sixers) and fits his backup role perfectly. The Nuggets have no shooting off the bench and are undersized with a Thompson-Jones frontcourt. The Knicks have the edge here with a more complete bench and have some surprise defensive switches available to throw off the Nuggets.

Overall:
The Knicks are a versatile team with set roles and players who can produce on both ends of the floor. That’s winning basketball. Meanwhile, the Nuggets have two subpar defensive players at arguably the two most important positions in this series, center and shooting guard. MJ is surrounded by 3 players in the top 60 all-time in TS% (Gilmore 64%, Detlef 59%, Pau 58%). Meanwhile, Duncan is surrounded by T-Mac (54.2 TS%), Divac (55.3 TS%) and Debusschere (47.4 TS%). As demonstrated above, we believe they do not have anything close to what they need in a championship matchup to slow down Jordan. On other hand, what should be the Nuggets biggest advantage has been somewhat of a push in the career matchups of Duncan and Gasol. Roshan did an excellent job but the Knicks are the more complete team on both ends of the floor, and most importantly, have more answers to stop his team than they can give in return. I believe the Knicks deserve to win the All-Time Redraft Finals. As I said to Jamal, GL to my opponent and may the best team win.

roshan3ai
12-18-2011, 04:16 PM
Can we sticky this? It is the finals

Ebbs
12-18-2011, 04:46 PM
Agreed lets get some talk in here.

DR_1
12-18-2011, 05:02 PM
Knicks - MJ baby

LakersMaster24
12-18-2011, 05:06 PM
The MJ factor is so big. Even though I like Denver's front court better, Knicks bigs are pretty good as well.

My vote goes to the Knicks.

roshan3ai
12-18-2011, 05:07 PM
Roster:
C: Vlade Divac:
1x All-Star | 27th All-Time in Blocks | 36th All-Time in DWS | 7th All-Time in eFG%
14.4 PPG | 9.9 RPG | 3.8 APG | 1.8 BPG | 1.2 SPG | 2.9 FTM | 4.1 FTA | 70.8 FT% | .139 WS/48 | 16.5 TRB% | 55.3 TS% | 110 ORTG | 104 DRTG (1994-1996)

PF: Tim Duncan:
4x Champ | 9x All Defensive 1st Team | 4x All Defensive 2nd Team | 9x All NBA First Team | 3x All NBA Second Team | 3x Finals MVP | 2x NBA MVP | 2nd All-Time in DRTG | 6th All-Time in DWS
23.8 PPG | 12.7 RPG | 3.6 APG | 3.3 ORPG | 5.9 FTM | 8.3 FTA | 2.7 BPG | 56.0 TS% | 50.9 eFG%| .252 WS.48 | 112 ORTG | 93 DRTG | 18.2 TRB% (2001-2004)

SF: Dave DeBusschere:
6x All Defensive 1st Team | 8x All-Star | 2x NBA Champ
16.5 PPG | 10.7 RPG | 3.5 APG | 2.4 FTM | 3.3 FTA | .103 WS/48 | 14.3 TRB% | 47.4 TS% | 44.1 eFG% | 93 DRTG (1971-1974)

SG: Tracy McGrady:
2x All-NBA 1st Team | 3x All-NBA 2nd Team | 2x All-NBA 3rd Team | 2x Scoring Champ
28.6 PPG | 6.8 RPG | 5.4 APG | 1.5 SPG | 6.4 FTM | 8.2 FTA | .780 FT% | 2.1 3PM | 5.7 3PA | 36.2 3P% | .202 WS/48 | 54.2 TS% | 48.8 eFG% | 112 ORTG | 106 DRTG (2001-2004)

PG: Chauncey Billups:
2x All Defensive 2nd Team | 1x All-NBA 2nd Team | 2x All-NBA 3rd Team | NBA Finals MVP | NBA Champion
17.3 PPG | 6.7 APG | 3.3 RPG | 1 SPG | 2.4 TO/G | 5.1 FTM | 5.7 FTA | 89 % FT% | 2.0 3PM | 4.8 3PA | 41.8 3P% | .219 WS/48 | 58.6 TS% | 49.9 eFG% | 32.4 AST% | 120 ORTG | 104 DRTG (2003-2006)

C/PF: Caldwell Jones:
2x All Defensive 1st Team
8.2 PPG | 9.0 RPG | 2.4 ORPG | 1.5 APG | 1.7 BPG | 2 FTM | 2.5 FTA | .084 WS/48 | 52.7 TS% | 46.5 eFG% | 15.9 TRB% | 100 ORTG | 102 DRTG (1980-1983)

PG/SG/SF: Micheal Ray Richardson:
2x All Defensive 1st Team
16.5 PPG | 8.4 APG | 6.8 RPG | 2.1 ORPG | 2.7 FTM | 4 FTA | 2.9 SPG | .5 BPG | .095 WS/48 | 50.8 TS% | 47.7 eFG% | 29.6 AST% | 102 ORTG | 104 DRTG (1979-1982)

PF/C Mychal Thompson:
2x NBA Champ
17.4 PPG | 9.9 RPG | 4.2 APG | 1.4 BPG | .112 WS/48 | 106 ORTG | 105 DRTG | 54.3 TS% | 51.2 eFG% | 15.3 TRB% (1981-1984)

SF/SG Latrell Sprewell:
21.3 PPG | 4.9 RPG | 4.4 APG | 1.4 3PA | 4.5 3PA | 32.1 3PT% | .081 WS/48 | 54.1 TS% | 47.6% eFG% | 107 ORTG | 112 DRTG (2004-2007)

SG/SF: John Drew:
23.0 PPG | 8.4 RPG | 1.9 APG | 1.6 SPG | 6.0 FTM | 8.2 FTA | .182 WS/48 | 55.0 TS% | 48.9 eFG% | 107 ORTG | 100 DRTG (1975-1978)
SF: Rodney McCray:
C: Rasho Neserovic:

roshan3ai
12-18-2011, 05:09 PM
Maybe that will help.

AI
12-18-2011, 05:14 PM
Meant to vote Knicks

roshan3ai
12-18-2011, 05:15 PM
The one vote I get is supposed to be for the Knicks :laugh2:

Sportfan
12-18-2011, 05:16 PM
The one vote I get is supposed to be for the Knicks :laugh2:
Not anymore!

Ezio
12-18-2011, 05:21 PM
MJ playing in MSG with home advantage :faint:

Sadds The Gr8
12-18-2011, 05:24 PM
Knicks in 6. congrats to both GM's for makin it this far.

Chacarron
12-18-2011, 05:33 PM
This Jordan team is really solid.

Green_Monster
12-18-2011, 07:17 PM
Both GM's did a great job. But I have to go with the Knicks. Congrats to both of you on making it this far!

knicks=love
12-18-2011, 07:18 PM
KoB is the only person that could've gotten the 1st pick and built that good of a team to surround MJ, and because of that, it's hard not to vote for him. rosh would've won if KoB was never KoB, but congrats to you both. both of you are very respected GMs and know a lot when it comes to NBA games. you both deserve to be in this match up :D

roshan3ai
12-18-2011, 09:16 PM
Welp, atleast I didn't get shutout in my first finals appearance. Great job KoB. You were the favorite to win it and didn't disappoint. Now do the thing you promised you'd do if you won that I forgot about

Raps18-19 Champ
12-18-2011, 09:31 PM
:laugh2:

I see what you did there Rosh.

knicks=love
12-18-2011, 09:32 PM
:laugh: i forgot about that. but i never knew what he was gonna do..

ShakeN'Bake
12-19-2011, 10:53 AM
I going with the Knicks here, but I go to say that the Nuggets put together a fantastic team.

PatsSoxKnicks
12-19-2011, 02:17 PM
Went with the Knicks- the T-Mac vs. MJ matchup mainly deciding it. I also like the Knicks advantage at C. They seem to just matchup better. But congrats to rosh for making it this far.

jrm2054
12-19-2011, 02:51 PM
Knicks by a slight margin

Cubs Win
12-19-2011, 03:09 PM
Great job by both GMs! I'm going Knicks in 6 or 7. The teams are fairly even but MJ having homecourt pushed me to the Knicks.

Kinda crazy to think MJ was reportedly close to becoming a Knick back in the day.

Rivera
12-19-2011, 04:46 PM
knicks because i want to see what KoB does

KnicksorBust
12-19-2011, 06:40 PM
The Nuggets were a very deserving opponent. Rosh you did a great job. :)

roshan3ai
12-19-2011, 07:28 PM
The Nuggets were a very deserving opponent. Rosh you did a great job. :)
Thanks man. I knew if I'd get this far, my loss would come at the hands of KoB.


BTW, did you catch what I did with my writeup? :laugh2:

Raps18-19 Champ
12-19-2011, 07:29 PM
Thanks man. I knew if I'd get this far, my loss would come at the hands of KoB.

BTW, did you catch what I did with my writeup? :laugh2:

:laugh2:

I love you for doing that.

Eagles4Lyfe
12-19-2011, 07:47 PM
Loved Knicks from the beginning and still love them now. Good luck 2 both GM's on a job well done

JordansBulls
12-19-2011, 09:29 PM
Knicks, MJ doesn't lose with HCA.:)

Catfish1314
12-20-2011, 06:06 PM
As everyone else already said, both GMs did a great job.

Congrats to KoB :)

knicks=love
12-21-2011, 03:22 PM
so what does KoB have to do now?