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TylerSL
12-13-2011, 05:35 PM
He has limited his wish list down to 4 teams. New Jersey, Dallas, Los Angeles, or stay in Orlando.


http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7348502/orlando-magic-dwight-howard-four-team-wish-list-source-says

kozelkid
12-13-2011, 05:36 PM
Didn't we know this for awhile now?

Celticsfan2007
12-13-2011, 05:37 PM
Lol. Cool story bro.

TylerSL
12-13-2011, 05:38 PM
Didn't we know this for awhile now?


well the Bulls have made it clear they want him, so I figured it was news.

billsftw
12-13-2011, 05:38 PM
why would he?
they'd have to trade a crapload for him and he wants to win rings, not just play with 1 all star

bovice163
12-13-2011, 05:39 PM
well the Bulls have made it clear they want him, so I figured it was news.

Who wouldn't want Dwight? Aside from some overzealous Bulls fans, everyone knows he isn't and never was going to Chicago.

billsftw
12-13-2011, 05:39 PM
He has limited his wish list down to 4 teams. New Jersey, Dallas, Los Angeles, or stay in Orlando.


http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7348502/orlando-magic-dwight-howard-four-team-wish-list-source-says

im still baffled as to why he chose orlando over chicago
lol dh12 and cp3 are breaking millions of hearts

billsftw
12-13-2011, 05:40 PM
Who wouldn't want Dwight? Aside from some overzealous Bulls fans, everyone knows he isn't and never was going to Chicago.

i actually thought there was a good chance
However, he probably wants to win a ring NOW

310Casper
12-13-2011, 05:41 PM
The bulls saying they wouldn't want him anyway is like me saying "Megan Fox wouldn't date me?! Good, i wouldn't want her anyway! pshhh"

Twista
12-13-2011, 05:42 PM
why would he?
they'd have to trade a crapload for him and he wants to win rings, not just play with 1 all star

...what? The stuff some people come up with on this forum, it's just mind boggling. Are you on drugs by any chance?

billsftw
12-13-2011, 05:43 PM
...what? The stuff some people come up with on this forum, it's just mind boggling. Are you on drugs by any chance?

so you're saying a duo of dwight and rose would win right NOW?
without boozer, noah and deng?
you're the one that's not thinking right

MassoDio
12-13-2011, 05:43 PM
why would he?
they'd have to trade a crapload for him and he wants to win rings, not just play with 1 all star

I never thought he was going to Chicago.

But if the above is the reasoning...he wouldn't have New Jersey on his list either. They only have one All-Star as well......

And the "Not liking cold weather" excuse, doesn't fly either when New Jersey is on the list.

Twista
12-13-2011, 05:45 PM
so you're saying a duo of dwight and rose would win right NOW?
without boozer, noah and deng?
you're the one that's not thinking right

Why would Dwight go to the Nets then? they'd have to trade everybody away to get him and he'd be left with only one all star to play next to. He's not going to win a ring that way, according to you.

Seriously, use your brain. Any place Dwight would go to, the team would have to trade away a bunch of pieces and basically leave him with one all star to play next to.

gaughan333
12-13-2011, 05:46 PM
The bulls saying they wouldn't want him anyway is like me saying "Megan Fox wouldn't date me?! Good, i wouldn't want her anyway! pshhh"

I probably wouldn't date her unless I can have her money. If you replace date with bang, I will agree with your post haha.

BHF
12-13-2011, 05:47 PM
he would be the worst fit with rose taking 30 shots a game

billsftw
12-13-2011, 05:48 PM
Why would Dwight go to the Nets then? they'd have to trade everybody away to get him and he'd be left with only one all star to play next to. He's not going to win a ring that way, according to you.

Seriously, use your brain. Any place Dwight would go to, the team would have to trade away a bunch of pieces and basically leave him with one all star to play next to.

Dwill is a more complete product compared to rose so technically the Nets still top the bulls. Also, the nets would still have Kris humphries and Anthony morrow, whereas the bulls have Rip Hamilton and Taj Gibson, and if you're dwight howard you're going to go with the nets, even if it's only SLIGHTLY better...
Also the nets would probably get kirilenko which would put them over the top

Twista
12-13-2011, 05:48 PM
LOL^^^^

definitely on drugs

billsftw
12-13-2011, 05:49 PM
Okay so a question for bulls fans: Why do you guys think Dwight doesn't want to go Chicago?
Since you've crossed out weather and not wanting to play with one all star, perhaps it's the fact that Derrick Rose isn't as good as D Will yet?

TylerSL
12-13-2011, 05:49 PM
he would be the worst fit with rose taking 30 shots a game

more rebounds for Howard :shrug:

billsftw
12-13-2011, 05:50 PM
LOL^^^^

definitely on drugs

LOl drugs or not, Dwight's not going to chicago :o

billsftw
12-13-2011, 05:51 PM
more rebounds for Howard :shrug:

LOL his rebound average in a series vs the heat would be like 28

Twista
12-13-2011, 05:51 PM
Yeah. why would Dwight want to go to the team with the youngest MVP ever and a first year COY who preaches defense? That makes no sense at all, Dwight could never win that way. :rolleyes:

moot point anyway, Dwight doesn't want to be a Bull. Let him go to the Nets and pwn the league with Deron and Kris Humphries. Bulls fans are shaking in their boots.

itsripcity32
12-13-2011, 05:51 PM
I probably wouldn't date her unless I can have her money. If you replace date with bang, I will agree with your post haha.

gay?

MassoDio
12-13-2011, 05:51 PM
Dwill is a more complete product compared to rose so technically the Nets still top the bulls. Also, the nets would still have Kris humphries and Anthony morrow, whereas the bulls have Rip Hamilton and Taj Gibson, and if you're dwight howard you're going to go with the nets, even if it's only SLIGHTLY better...
Also the nets would probably get kirilenko which would put them over the top

Except that Kris Humphries is a FA, and the Nets haven't even talked to him yet.

The Bulls would also have Omer Asik, Kyle Korver, CJ Watson, Ronnie Brewer, RIP Hamilton...They have a good team. I am not saying that the Bulls are a better option than the Nets. I am saying that they are not worse by any stretch of the imagination. So the reasoning behind Howard not wanting to go to Chicago has nothing to do with talent, as the Bulls have at least as much as New Jersey, to offer.

TylerSL
12-13-2011, 05:52 PM
LOL his rebound average in a series vs the heat would be like 28

agreed..

billsftw
12-13-2011, 05:54 PM
Yeah. why would Dwight want to go to the team with the youngest MVP ever and a first year COY who preaches defense? That makes no sense at all, Dwight could never win that way. :rolleyes:

moot point anyway, Dwight doesn't want to be a Bull. Let him go to the Nets and pwn the league with Deron and Kris Humphries. Bulls fans are shaking in their boots.

Ok but you still haven't answered my question
If your team is so great why doesn't dwight go there?
Dwight's a better judge of talent that he wants to play with than you are :)
maybe he looked at boozer's numbers and thought that rose wouldn't be the best choice at pg for him?
I'm not saying rose isn't good, because he is, but he certainly isn't better than Deron.

bovice163
12-13-2011, 05:56 PM
Okay so a question for bulls fans: Why do you guys think Dwight doesn't want to go Chicago?
Since you've crossed out weather and not wanting to play with one all star, perhaps it's the fact that Derrick Rose isn't as good as D Will yet?

Because Dwight wouldn't be the man, that's why. You're completely off your rocker if you don't think Rose has surpassed Deron yet.

In terms of accolades, statistics, and team success, Rose has been the superior player in his 1st 3 years, not even taking into account peak potential.

billsftw
12-13-2011, 05:56 PM
Except that Kris Humphries is a FA, and the Nets haven't even talked to him yet.

The Bulls would also have Omer Asik, Kyle Korver, CJ Watson, Ronnie Brewer, RIP Hamilton...They have a good team. I am not saying that the Bulls are a better option than the Nets. I am saying that they are not worse by any stretch of the imagination. So the reasoning behind Howard not wanting to go to Chicago has nothing to do with talent, as the Bulls have at least as much as New Jersey, to offer.

so your saying talent has no role to play in Dwight's choice?
Come on man, we all know Dwight wants to win NOW and maybe he doesn't think the bulls are the right fit
stop saying they are because dwight is a better judge of talent than you are
especially a fan who has vested interest in evaluating your team

Twista
12-13-2011, 05:56 PM
I have a hard time believing if you ask any basketball exec, insider or analyst...that they'd say they prefer Deron over Rose or even CP3 over Rose. People on forums like these have these types of arguments but in reality and in the actual basketball industry, I don't think there's any type of argument about who the most desirable PG in the game is right now.

If you can find an unbiased NBA coach or an NBA GM that claims Deron is a better player than Rose, link it.

billsftw
12-13-2011, 05:58 PM
Because Dwight wouldn't be the man, that's why. You're completely off your rocker if you don't think Rose has surpassed Deron yet.

In terms of accolades, statistics, and team success, Rose has been the superior player in his 1st 3 years.

LOL that is the worst excuse i have heard yet.
Why would he go to LA then (Kobe and most likely Paul > Rose) or the Nets (Dwill > Rose)?
You still can't provide an answer that demonstrates the Bulls having the talent to win even with dwight because he doesn't even believe it
He wants to win FIRST and FOREMOST

billsftw
12-13-2011, 05:59 PM
I have a hard time believing if you ask any basketball exec, insider or analyst...that they'd say they prefer Deron over Rose or even CP3 over Rose. People on forums like these have these types of arguments but in reality and in the actual basketball industry, I don't think there's any type of argument about who the most desirable PG in the game is right now.

If you can find an unbiased NBA coach or an NBA GM that claims Deron is a better player than Rose, link it.

Well Dwight, by preferring the Nets over the Bulls, has implicitly stated so.

Kyben36
12-13-2011, 05:59 PM
Wish list is diferent than where he might actualy go. bulls may pay enough to get him, however, I doubt we do, or that we try that hard.

Twista
12-13-2011, 06:00 PM
Dwight doesn't want to win now, he wants to have fun in the sun in LA and chill with movie stars or go to NJ and chill at rap concerts with Jay Z, or he wants to play GM in Orlando and make crappy basketball decisions like signing Big Baby. If Dwight wanted to win now he'd ask for a trade to Chicago or Oklahoma.

billsftw
12-13-2011, 06:00 PM
Wish list is diferent than where he might actualy go. bulls may pay enough to get him, however, I doubt we do, or that we try that hard.

If he's left with no choice he'll go to the bulls,, but you'll have to pay a king's ransom

bovice163
12-13-2011, 06:00 PM
LOL that is the worst excuse i have heard yet.
Why would he go to LA then (Kobe and most likely Paul > Rose) or the Nets (Dwill > Rose)?
You still can't provide an answer that demonstrates the Bulls having the talent to win even with dwight because he doesn't even believe it
He wants to win FIRST and FOREMOST

I don't understand why you're so invested in arguing such a trivial point. Bulls fans already said we know Dwight was never coming, and yet your stuck on the reasoning of it. Dwight wants to be the man, he said he wants to be the man and doesn't want to go riding anyone's coattails. If he went to LA, he would be the centerpiece, same with NJ. If he comes to Chicago? Rose is still the golden child, and Dwight would never overcome that.

MassoDio
12-13-2011, 06:00 PM
Ok but you still haven't answered my question
If your team is so great why doesn't dwight go there?
Dwight's a better judge of talent that he wants to play with than you are :)
maybe he looked at boozer's numbers and thought that rose wouldn't be the best choice at pg for him?
I'm not saying rose isn't good, because he is, but he certainly isn't better than Deron.

Rose certainly isn't worse than Deron.

My personal opinion on why Howard does not want to go to Chicago is as follows:

One reason Howard wants to go to a large market is for the publicity. He wants to be in a big market and have it be his team. Like he has in Orlando with a bigger market, and an owner more willing to spend in that big market. He also wants more say in decisions, based on his interview the other day.

He will be the face of New Jersey. He will supersede Deron in that respect. He would not do that in Chicago, as Rose is the guy in that town. And he will continue to be, even if Dwight comes. Rose is from Chicago, and is the fans have a love for him that Dwight would never be able to attain.

Chicago's front office has also never been one to allow players to have much say in personnel decisions, and players around the league know this.

These are the reasons why I think Howard would choose New Jersey over Chicago, even with similar talent, post trade.

Just my opinion though.

billsftw
12-13-2011, 06:01 PM
Dwight doesn't want to win now, he wants to have fun in the sun in LA and chill with movie stars or go to NJ and chill at rap concerts with Jay Z, or he wants to play GM in Orlando and make crappy basketball decisions like signing Big Baby. If Dwight wanted to win now he'd ask for a trade to Chicago or Oklahoma.

Are you kidding me?!
Okay it's obvious you guys are butthurt that Dwight doesn't want to go Chicago. Here i was thinking i could have a logical argument with Bulls fans.

:facepalm:

gaughan333
12-13-2011, 06:02 PM
Dwill is a more complete product compared to rose so technically the Nets still top the bulls. Also, the nets would still have Kris humphries and Anthony morrow, whereas the bulls have Rip Hamilton and Taj Gibson, and if you're dwight howard you're going to go with the nets, even if it's only SLIGHTLY better...
Also the nets would probably get kirilenko which would put them over the top

The bulls would have deng or boozer

billsftw
12-13-2011, 06:02 PM
Rose certainly isn't worse than Deron.

My personal opinion on why Howard does not want to go to Chicago is as follows:

One reason Howard wants to go to a large market is for the publicity. He wants to be in a big market and have it be his team. Like he has in Orlando with a bigger market, and an owner more willing to spend in that big market. He also wants more say in decisions, based on his interview the other day.

He will be the face of New Jersey. He will supersede Deron in that respect. He would not do that in Chicago, as Rose is the guy in that town. And he will continue to be, even if Dwight comes. Rose is from Chicago, and is the fans have a love for him that Dwight would never be able to attain.

Chicago's front office has also never been one to allow players to have much say in personnel decisions, and players around the league know this.

These are the reasons why I think Howard would choose New Jersey over Chicago, even with similar talent, post trade.

Just my opinion though.

But do you agree with fellow Bulls posters that Dwight doesn't want to win now?

billsftw
12-13-2011, 06:03 PM
The bulls would have deng or boozer

They'd probably have Boozer. Even then, he hasn't been the same since playing with Deron.

gaughan333
12-13-2011, 06:03 PM
Okay so a question for bulls fans: Why do you guys think Dwight doesn't want to go Chicago?
Since you've crossed out weather and not wanting to play with one all star, perhaps it's the fact that Derrick Rose isn't as good as D Will yet?

He likes attention and likes being loved and Derrick is chicago's guy and Howard would always be second to fans

billsftw
12-13-2011, 06:04 PM
He likes attention and likes being loved and Derrick is chicago's guy and Howard would always be second to fans

Yeh i guess you're right. he only cares about being liked and not winning now so that's why he hasn't asked for a trade yet...:rolleyes:

TylerSL
12-13-2011, 06:04 PM
Wish list is diferent than where he might actualy go. bulls may pay enough to get him, however, I doubt we do, or that we try that hard.

He wont sign an extention with the Bulls. So the Magic wont waste their time.

Blackwater13
12-13-2011, 06:04 PM
The shadow and the cold.

Twista
12-13-2011, 06:04 PM
Are you kidding me?!
Okay it's obvious you guys are butthurt that Dwight doesn't want to go Chicago. Here i was thinking i could have a logical argument with Bulls fans.

:facepalm:

:facepalm: shut your mouth, your very first post in this thread was downright ********, you talking about logic?

:facepalm: x 10

billsftw
12-13-2011, 06:05 PM
:facepalm: shut your mouth, your very first post in this thread was downright ********, you talking about logic?

:facepalm: x 10

Okay i concede... you win.
Dwight doesn't want to win now and just wants to be liked so he's going to stay in Orlando:)

kozelkid
12-13-2011, 06:05 PM
Ok but you still haven't answered my question
If your team is so great why doesn't dwight go there?
Dwight's a better judge of talent that he wants to play with than you are :)
maybe he looked at boozer's numbers and thought that rose wouldn't be the best choice at pg for him?
I'm not saying rose isn't good, because he is, but he certainly isn't better than Deron.

Wrong.
In just Rose's third season he has had a better PER, WS, and any other overall stat you can think of than ANY of Deron's 6 seasons.

Dwight isn't a good judge of talent. This is the same idiot who thinks a 35 years Chauncey Billups is a necessity. This is the same idiot who was upset that Arenas was amnestied. This is the same idiot who wanted the Davis for Bass trade.

I think it's been obvious for some time now that players can be awful judges of talent. Look no further than Michael Jordans' tenures as gm/owner.

Why Dwight might prefer NJ? Maybe Prokhorov convinced Dwight that he could be making tons off the court. Dwight strikes me as the impressionable guy. Maybe he feels he'll be more the man in LA or DAL (with an aging Kobe and Dirk respectively) or in NJ where he's better than Dwill than Chicago with a 23 year old hometown pg who just became MVP.

DieHardCubFan
12-13-2011, 06:06 PM
why does it seem that no big names want to go to chicago? who wouldn't wanna play with d rose?

5ass
12-13-2011, 06:06 PM
I have a hard time believing if you ask any basketball exec, insider or analyst...that they'd say they prefer Deron over Rose or even CP3 over Rose. People on forums like these have these types of arguments but in reality and in the actual basketball industry, I don't think there's any type of argument about who the most desirable PG in the game is right now.

If you can find an unbiased NBA coach or an NBA GM that claims Deron is a better player than Rose, link it.

you're wrong, many people dont see how rose is the best PG in the game. A lot of people would prefer a pass first PG. Rose is the type of PG that will look for his shot first and teammates 2nd. Many people could argue that he will sometimes hurt his team doing that, especially considering Rose isnt very efficient offensively. If you're considering everything when taking in consideration who the "most desirable PG" is, i.e age, work ethic, ect.
honestly, i would take John Wall
but for you to say "there is no argument" that is COMPLETELY WRONG

Chi City23
12-13-2011, 06:06 PM
Ok but you still haven't answered my question
If your team is so great why doesn't dwight go there?
Dwight's a better judge of talent that he wants to play with than you are :)
maybe he looked at boozer's numbers and thought that rose wouldn't be the best choice at pg for him?
I'm not saying rose isn't good, because he is, but he certainly isn't better than Deron.

First off the Bulls wouldn't be giving up Noah, Boozer AND Deng.. it'd be Noah and one of the Boozer/Deng, most likely Deng.

Rose
Rip
Hedo? FA?
Boozer
Dwight

is a sick *** lineup and yes could win a title NOW!

Second, Dwill is not as good as Rose right now. DWill has pretty much reached his ceiling where Rose continues to get better every year and still young enough to improve.

Third, only Dwight knows why Chicago isn't on his list.. maybe he doesn't like the FO because we don't let players make personnel decisions? Maybe because Adidas doesn't want their 2 most popular bball players on the same team? Maybe he doesn't want to go to somebody else's team unless it's Hollywood. Maybe he does want to come to Chicago but all these sources are wrong? Point being, no one knows. Maybe you should ask Dwight on his twitter and hope he responds :rolleyes:

Chi StateOfMind
12-13-2011, 06:07 PM
Who gives a **** why Dwight doesnt wanna come. If he doesnt wanna come its his preference. Any NBA team would love to have D12 but most Bulls fans realize he's not coming. I personally wouldn't wanna deplete our team but to build around D12 I would. Boozer wouldnt be included from what Ive read. I feel he ends up in LA eventually.

Twista
12-13-2011, 06:07 PM
you're wrong, many people dont see how rose is the best PG in the game. A lot of people would prefer a pass first PG. Rose is the type of PG that will look for his shot first and teammates 2nd. Many people could argue that he will sometimes hurt his team doing that, especially considering Rose isnt very efficient offensively. If you're considering everything when taking in consideration who the "most desirable PG" is, i.e age, work ethic, ect.
honestly, i would take John Wall
but for you to say "there is no argument" that is COMPLETELY WRONG

many people, like who? People on message boards?

You preferring John Wall over Rose, I'm sorry but it just shows you have very little idea of what you're talking about. John Wall may have potential but right now, look at his stats, he stinks.

TylerSL
12-13-2011, 06:07 PM
Dwight doesn't want to win now, he wants to have fun in the sun in LA and chill with movie stars or go to NJ and chill at rap concerts with Jay Z, or he wants to play GM in Orlando and make crappy basketball decisions like signing Big Baby. If Dwight wanted to win now he'd ask for a trade to Chicago or Oklahoma.

ok..... :rolleyes:



keep deluding yourself with the bag of magic mushrooms.

gaughan333
12-13-2011, 06:08 PM
gay?

You must not be able to read very well. I don't think a gay guy would wanna bang her.

billsftw
12-13-2011, 06:08 PM
many people, like who? People on message boards?

You talk big for someone who is one of those people.

chicago lulz
12-13-2011, 06:08 PM
The logic in this thread hurts man! It hurts.

billsftw
12-13-2011, 06:09 PM
ok..... :rolleyes:



keep deluding yourself with the bag of magic mushrooms.

Exactly! He argues my point and then says Howard doesn;t want to win now! :clap: :speechless:
And he has still to give a reason why he said that...

Vincent
12-13-2011, 06:09 PM
The bulls saying they wouldn't want him anyway is like me saying "Megan Fox wouldn't date me?! Good, i wouldn't want her anyway! pshhh"

No, I believed they're saying.

"I don't think I'd be able to get with Megan Fox anyways."

billsftw
12-13-2011, 06:10 PM
The logic in this thread hurts man! It hurts.

Yeh you're right, especially when bulls fans say Dwight doesn't want to win now :)

MassoDio
12-13-2011, 06:10 PM
But do you agree with fellow Bulls posters that Dwight doesn't want to win now?

No.

I think Dwight wants to win now. I am not disputing that. I am disputing the statement that New Jersey has better talent. They quite simply don't. Even after trades are made. But there are plenty of other reasons why he would not want to go to Chicago. I listed a couple.

I just don't believe the BS that is being put out there about him not wanting to be in cold weather, and then seeing New Jersey on his wish list.

And I am positive it doesn't have anything to do with basketball talent, as the Bulls have way more talent now, and would have at least equal talent, if not still better depending on the trade, after a trade for Dwight.

Freedom with management, and voice in decision making goes a long way with today's players. And Dwight would have way more of that in New Jersey, as they NEED to make a splash now for the move to Brooklyn. They would give him what ever he wants. Plus the owner is willing to spend whatever it takes. (So is Reinsdorf if the team is a contender)

This is not the first star player to spurn the Bulls, and this happened before DRose came along. So there has to be something to the fact the the ownership and front office do not cater to complaining, primadonna basketball players, and never have.

kozelkid
12-13-2011, 06:10 PM
ok..... :rolleyes:



keep deluding yourself with the bag of magic mushrooms.

I won't go as far as saying Dwight doesn't want to win now. But I think it's pretty obvious from a basketball standpoint that OKC and Chicago are Dwight's two best options both short term and long term as far as winning now.

gaughan333
12-13-2011, 06:10 PM
so your saying talent has no role to play in Dwight's choice?
Come on man, we all know Dwight wants to win NOW and maybe he doesn't think the bulls are the right fit
stop saying they are because dwight is a better judge of talent than you are
especially a fan who has vested interest in evaluating your team

If all he wanted was to win he'd wait till free agency and sign a minimum contract with the heat

Twista
12-13-2011, 06:11 PM
ok..... :rolleyes:



keep deluding yourself with the bag of magic mushrooms.

Yeah he really wants to win now, doesn't he? Thats why he told the Magic GM to get Big Baby and Andrei Kirilenko. Win now baby! Those are the moves that put a team over the top.

come the ******* on, get real. If Dwight wants to win he's basically got 4 choices: Bulls, Thunder, Mavs or Lakers.

Clippers and Nets, despite having good pieces, are not franchises that have a winning history or proven coaches.

billsftw
12-13-2011, 06:12 PM
If all he wanted was to win he'd wait till free agency and sign a minimum contract with the heat

im not saiyng it's ALL he wants
but it certainly is a big factor
I guarantee you if miami offers lebron to orlando for dwight he jumps on that gravy train...and fast

kozelkid
12-13-2011, 06:12 PM
The bulls saying they wouldn't want him anyway is like me saying "Megan Fox wouldn't date me?! Good, i wouldn't want her anyway! pshhh"

Minus the fact that we just had a roster that won 62 games, got to the ECF since 1998 and are mostly young guys who will continue to improve.

Look, obviously adding a top 2 player would be awesome. But none of use are going to lose sleep over it because most of us believe we can win it all with what we have and we continue to have a couple of gems that will help us in the future.

billsftw
12-13-2011, 06:13 PM
Yeah he really wants to win now, doesn't he? Thats why he told the Magic GM to get Big Baby and Andrei Kirilenko. Win now baby! Those are the moves that put a team over the top.

come the ******* on, get real. If Dwight wants to win he's basically got 4 choices: Bulls, Thunder, Mavs or Lakers.

Clippers and Nets, despite having good pieces, are not franchises that have a winning history or proven coaches.

You're the only bulls fan that truly believes this. Let me repeat myself, Chicago is NOT better than the heat or the knicks in the east.

5ass
12-13-2011, 06:13 PM
Wrong.
In just Rose's third season he has had a better PER, WS, and any other overall stat you can think of than ANY of Deron's 6 seasons.

Dwight isn't a good judge of talent. This is the same idiot who thinks a 35 years Chauncey Billups is a necessity. This is the same idiot who was upset that Arenas was amnestied. This is the same idiot who wanted the Davis for Bass trade.

I think it's been obvious for some time now that players can be awful judges of talent. Look no further than Michael Jordans' tenures as gm/owner.

Why Dwight might prefer NJ? Maybe Prokhorov convinced Dwight that he could be making tons off the court. Dwight strikes me as the impressionable guy. Maybe he feels he'll be more the man in LA or DAL (with an aging Kobe and Dirk respectively) or in NJ where he's better than Dwill than Chicago with a 23 year old hometown pg who just became MVP.

wow, hold on a minute there man, why dont u try to understand the reasons of his desires before you call him an idiot.
1. chauncey was never a "necessity", and chauncey might be old, but lets not act like he wasnt putting up 19 PPG in Denver last season. Also Chauncey will be a GREAT fit next to Dwight and Turk as he plays great off the ball, and plays good defense.
2. What is wrong with arenas not being amnestied? I've discussed it with some people in the magic forum, and some have agreed that they should have kept arenas because we had nothing to lose. Its not like amnestying arenas got us significantly under the cap. And we all know that arenas is still able to put up 17-6 if hes semi-healthy and used the right way, so why not take the chance?
3. Davis for Bass trade was great, every magic fan likes that trade. We love the energy Davis will bring to our team, and we believe he is better than Bass. Contracts were only 1 million apart so thats not a problem.

gaughan333
12-13-2011, 06:13 PM
They'd probably have Boozer. Even then, he hasn't been the same since playing with Deron.

Rose + Boozer > Deron

billsftw
12-13-2011, 06:15 PM
Rose + Boozer > Deron

Deron + Humphries + Kirilenko > Rose + Boozer + Hamilton

Chi StateOfMind
12-13-2011, 06:15 PM
I truly feel Dwight doesn't know what he wants. He asks for a trade but continues to say he loves Orlando and would stay. Stop toying around and come out and say move me. Your not gunna win in Orlando and trust me I wouldnt judge gim for leaving. Dude has did everything just like CP3. I dont know who said Dwight doesnt wanna win now but maybe they meant it in terms of him choosing NJ over Chicago. Also meaning that person feels Chicago is in way better shape to win now more so then NJ.

kozelkid
12-13-2011, 06:16 PM
wow, hold on a minute there man, why dont u try to understand the reasons of his desires before you call him an idiot.
1. chauncey was never a "necessity", and chauncey might be old, but lets not act like he wasnt putting up 19 PPG in Denver last season. Also Chauncey will be a GREAT fit next to Dwight and Turk as he plays great off the ball, and plays good defense.
2. What is wrong with arenas not being amnestied? I've discussed it with some people in the magic forum, and some have agreed that they should have kept arenas because we had nothing to lose. Its not like amnestying arenas got us significantly under the cap. And we all know that arenas is still able to put up 17-6 if hes semi-healthy and used the right way, so why not take the chance?
3. Davis for Bass trade was great, every magic fan likes that trade. We love the energy Davis will bring to our team, and we believe he is better than Bass. Contracts were only 1 million apart so thats not a problem.

Let's not kid ourselves.

1. Chauncey Billups won't be what keeps Dwight in Orlando.

2. Arenas is done. There's a reason no team picked him up. For a disinterested player like him, the lockout was probably the worst thing for his career.

3. Bass is a better player. There's nothing great about it.

But whatever makes you happy I guess.


Rose + Boozer > Deron

Rose alone is better.

kozelkid
12-13-2011, 06:16 PM
Deron + Humphries + Kirilenko > Rose + Boozer + Hamilton

:laugh:

I needed that.

You still haven't proven how Deron alone is better. Let alone the fact that we'd still have Brewer and Korver.

chicago lulz
12-13-2011, 06:17 PM
Yeh you're right, especially when bulls fans say Dwight doesn't want to win now :)

Except it seems as though maybe one or two bulls fans have said it.

I'm able to admit they're logic is a bit flawed, but some of the stuff you mentioned as well as OP aren't any better.

Thus my comment, "The logic in this thread hurts my head..."

billsftw
12-13-2011, 06:17 PM
I truly feel Dwight doesn't know what he wants. He asks for a trade but continues to say he loves Orlando and would stay. Stop toying around and come out and say move me. Your not gunna win in Orlando and trust me I wouldnt judge gim for leaving. Dude has did everything just like CP3. I dont know who said Dwight doesnt wanna win now but maybe they meant it in terms of him choosing NJ over Chicago. Also meaning that person feels Chicago is in way better shape to win now more so then NJ.

But you don;t know what your team looks like after a trade with orlando.

billsftw
12-13-2011, 06:18 PM
:laugh:

I needed that.

You still haven't proven how Deron alone is better. Let alone the fact that we'd still have Brewer and Korver.

Oh yeah those two are REALLY going to push the bulls over the top.
Miami are going to come down so hard on Chicago it's not even funny.

TylerSL
12-13-2011, 06:18 PM
Yeah he really wants to win now, doesn't he? Thats why he told the Magic GM to get Big Baby and Andrei Kirilenko. Win now baby! Those are the moves that put a team over the top.

come the ******* on, get real. If Dwight wants to win he's basically got 4 choices: Bulls, Thunder, Mavs or Lakers.

Clippers and Nets, despite having good pieces, are not franchises that have a winning history or proven coaches.

the Lakers and Mavs are on his list so I dont really get your reasoning...... Rose would never pass him the ball as to guys like D-Will and CP3 would thrive with him.

kozelkid
12-13-2011, 06:18 PM
Oh yeah those two are REALLY going to push the bulls over the top.
Miami are going to come down so hard on Chicago it's not even funny.

Oh I get it now.

You're just a Miami fan who is trying to bait Bulls fans.

Don't you have better things to do?

billsftw
12-13-2011, 06:20 PM
Oh I get it now.

You're just a Miami fan who is trying to bait Bulls fans.

Don't you have better things to do?

LOL you're so off.
I'm actually a Lakers fan who enjoyed watching last season's conference finals.

chicago lulz
12-13-2011, 06:20 PM
Oh I get it now.

You're just a Miami fan who is trying to bait Bulls fans.

Don't you have better things to do?

I thought that was pretty obvious after his first few posts in the thread...I was just unsure of whether he was a fan of Miami, New York, or whomever.

gaughan333
12-13-2011, 06:20 PM
Deron + Humphries + Kirilenko > Rose + Boozer + Hamilton

They don't have humphries

bovice163
12-13-2011, 06:20 PM
Oh I get it now.

You're just a Miami fan who is trying to bait Bulls fans.

Don't you have better things to do?

That guy is just another mindless troll. Leave the idiots to rot in their own stupidity.

kozelkid
12-13-2011, 06:20 PM
the Lakers and Mavs are on his list so I dont really get your reasoning...... Rose would never pass him the ball as to guys like D-Will and CP3 would thrive with him.

Where did this come from? Like seriously?

Rose is obviously not the passer that Deron or Paul. That doesn't make him a ballhog. The guy still averaged almost 8 apg.


I'd also like to point out that Dwill and CP3 particularly thrive in the pick and roll. Dwight isn't a pick and roll big. So I'm not sure they'd thrive quite as much as those players did with Boozer and West respectively.

Chi StateOfMind
12-13-2011, 06:20 PM
But you don;t know what your team looks like after a trade with orlando.

Rose
Rip
Hedo
Boozer
Dwight

As far as backups idk. Look bro I know he isnt coming here, Bulls fans are ok. But you cant tell me NJ would be in better shape. Please spare me that BS. Deron and D12 would be nice but with what else. No Hump, maybe a injury prone AK. Cmon seriously.

5ass
12-13-2011, 06:21 PM
Let's not kid ourselves.

1. Chauncey Billups won't be what keeps Dwight in Orlando.

2. Arenas is done. There's a reason no team picked him up. For a disinterested player like him, the lockout was probably the worst thing for his career.

3. Bass is a better player. There's nothing great about it.

But whatever makes you happy I guess.



Rose alone is better.
If we're trying to make the team better for one last shot at keeping dwight, chauncey is a better option than Jameer nelson.
You might think arenas is done, but u didnt see him in the playoffs last year. And btw he was putting up 17-6 in washington, and that was when he wasnt fully healed. So no, u cant just say arenas is done, if he's done dwight wouldnt have wanted him there.
Trust me Davis is a better player than bass, all bass ever did in orl was stand around looking confused. He is a decent player, but EVERY magic fan will take Baby over Bass any day of the week. Their stats might look the same, but there are some things that dont show up on the stat sheet than big baby does.

kozelkid
12-13-2011, 06:21 PM
LOL you're so off.
I'm actually a Lakers fan who enjoyed watching last season's conference finals.

Whatever. Your posts are still useless.

Off to the ignore list you go.

I am Smart
12-13-2011, 06:22 PM
Dwight Howard is an idiot. Nuff said

TylerSL
12-13-2011, 06:26 PM
Where did this come from? Like seriously?

Rose is obviously not the passer that Deron or Paul. That doesn't make him a ballhog. The guy still averaged almost 8 apg.


I'd also like to point out that Dwill and CP3 particularly thrive in the pick and roll. Dwight isn't a pick and roll big. So I'm not sure they'd thrive quite as much as those players did with Boozer and West respectively.

Rose had 8 assists/game yes, but he had the ball in his hands EVERY possession he was on the floor. Which was 37 minutes/game...... Rose averaged 20 shots/game.

Did you not watch the Hornets when Tyson Chander was on that team? Or the Utah Jazz when they had D-Will and Boozer??? They thrive with big men. D-Will/CP3 with Howard=ally oops all game

SteBO
12-13-2011, 06:27 PM
His loss then.....If he wanted to win, Chicago would've been number one on this list. It's a real shame too, because a Miami-Chicago series at that point would've been must-see TV nationwide.

Vincent
12-13-2011, 06:28 PM
you're wrong, many people dont see how rose is the best PG in the game. A lot of people would prefer a pass first PG. Rose is the type of PG that will look for his shot first and teammates 2nd. Many people could argue that he will sometimes hurt his team doing that, especially considering Rose isnt very efficient offensively. If you're considering everything when taking in consideration who the "most desirable PG" is, i.e age, work ethic, ect.
honestly, i would take John Wall
but for you to say "there is no argument" that is COMPLETELY WRONG

Well, people that think like that are kind of basketball dumb?

Rose is in the discussion as the best point guard with Deron and Paul. He's younger than both of them. And he has less injuries than both of them. And he's physically superior than either of them. And he might not have hit his ceiling yet.

The reason why he shoots first and passes second, is because his team requires him to shoot first and pass second. That's what they ask him to do. If they asked him to pass the ball every single time he touched it, he'd do that too. I don't think it's because he's selfish or a ball hog.

Plus, he's locked up and won't threaten to leave his team for a long, long time.

I think John Wall will be a fine point guard in the future. But your logic of "Derrick Rose is inefficient on offense," falls on it's face when the point guard you're choosing over him is John Wall.

Anyone can have an opinion on whether they would take a certain player over another. But they can also be completely wrong.

GMs do it all the time. lol

Twista
12-13-2011, 06:29 PM
His loss then.....If he wanted to win, Chicago would've been number one on this list. It's a real shame too, because a Miami-Chicago series at that point would've been must-see TV nationwide.

How dare you say this, you're obviously just a Bulls homer.

SteBO
12-13-2011, 06:30 PM
How dare you say this, you're obviously just a Bulls homer.
Yup.....

TylerSL
12-13-2011, 06:31 PM
His loss then.....If he wanted to win, Chicago would've been number one on this list. It's a real shame too, because a Miami-Chicago series at that point would've been must-see TV nationwide.

I still think Dwight wants to win. But rather play with a PG like CP3 or D-Will. It would be a must-see series tho.

Vincent
12-13-2011, 06:31 PM
Rose had 8 assists/game yes, but he had the ball in his hands EVERY possession he was on the floor. Which was 37 minutes/game...... Rose averaged 20 shots/game.

Did you not watch the Hornets when Tyson Chander was on that team? Or the Utah Jazz when they had D-Will and Boozer??? They thrive with big men. D-Will/CP3 with Howard=ally oops all game

Well, Rose helped Noah average over 10 points a game 2 years in a row... I'm pretty sure Howard would be fine. lol

kozelkid
12-13-2011, 06:32 PM
Rose had 8 assists/game yes, but he had the ball in his hands EVERY possession he was on the floor. Which was 37 minutes/game...... Rose averaged 20 shots/game.

I was unaware that usage 31.3% is "every" possession.

And again, that's the offense of the Bulls.

Unlike you, I've watched every game and I can tell you for whatever reason that Rose-Boozer pick and roll was almost never run. Rose was completely utilized like Lebron in Cleveland.

Are we going to say Lebron is a ball hog or can't pass because their usage% and apg are eerily similar when Lebron was a Cav.

The problem is that people like you are obsessed with the idea that Rose has to be a pass first pg. He tried that at first and it was bad as evident by the beginning of his second year. He plays ala DWade or a Lebron, but happens to be a pg. But like either of those players, he's still the primary ballhandler. I don't see anything wrong with that.


Did you not watch the Hornets when Tyson Chander was on that team? Or the Utah Jazz when they had D-Will and Boozer??? They thrive with big men.........

Yes I did. As I already pointed out to you in my previous post that they are pick and roll big men. Dwight has never shown to be a pick and roll. He operates far more in the post. That's not to say he can't, but the guy has almost been strictly in the post and changing that won't necessariyl be the best.

TylerSL
12-13-2011, 06:33 PM
Well, Rose helped Noah average over 10 points a game 2 years in a row... I'm pretty sure Howard would be fine. lol

80% of Noah's points come from tip-ins.

Twista
12-13-2011, 06:35 PM
According to some people in this thread, Rose is a terrible point guard who takes 30 shots per game, is inefficient, can't pass at all, can't defend, has a small penis and John Wall is better than him.

You can't fix stupid.

kozelkid
12-13-2011, 06:35 PM
80% of Noah's points come from tip-ins.

Source or are you just making it up?

EDIT: Vincent is correct; you are making it up.
http://www.82games.com/1011/10CHI14.HTM

5ass
12-13-2011, 06:36 PM
Well, people that think like that are kind of basketball dumb?

Rose is in the discussion as the best point guard with Deron and Paul. He's younger than both of them. And he has less injuries than both of them. And he's physically superior than either of them. And he might not have hit his ceiling yet.

The reason why he shoots first and passes second, is because his team requires him to shoot first and pass second. That's what they ask him to do. If they asked him to pass the ball every single time he touched it, he'd do that too. I don't think it's because he's selfish or a ball hog.

Plus, he's locked up and won't threaten to leave his team for a long, long time.

I think John Wall will be a fine point guard in the future. But your logic of "Derrick Rose is inefficient on offense," falls on it's face when the point guard you're choosing over him is John Wall.

Anyone can have an opinion on whether they would take a certain player over another. But they can also be completely wrong.

GMs do it all the time. lol

-never said, rose in is inefficient on offense, dont quote me on something u made up, i said he's not VERY efficient of offense, meaning he's not inefficient, but hes not very efficient either.
-Rose is not the player that sets up teammates, hell paul averaged 10 assists playing on a team with really no good offensive players. Rose has Deng, Boozer and great 3 pt shooters to work with.
- i was only disagreeing with the guy saying there is no argument that makes rose not the most desirable PG in the game

chicago lulz
12-13-2011, 06:38 PM
80% of Noah's points come from tip-ins.

LOL, this is very Barney-esque from HIMYM

SteBO
12-13-2011, 06:39 PM
I still think Dwight wants to win. But rather play with a PG like CP3 or D-Will. It would be a must-see series tho.
I get that, but the Nets would still have many problems on the defensive side of the ball and if CP3 goes to the Clips there's no way LA could sign him. And I know as well as everyone that staying in ORL isn't an option for Dwight at this point.

5ass
12-13-2011, 06:40 PM
According to some people in this thread, Rose is a terrible point guard who takes 30 shots per game, is inefficient, can't pass at all, can't defend, has a small penis and John Wall is better than him.

You can't fix stupid.

Were did i say john wall is better than him dumbass?
I said John Wall can become the better PG, he's not there now, but he very well could be.

damn i gotta start underlining **** for bulls fans, u guys are too sensitive about rose.. He's not ****ing MJ

kozelkid
12-13-2011, 06:40 PM
-never said, rose in is inefficient on offense, dont quote me on something u made up, i said he's not VERY efficient of offense, meaning he's not inefficient, but hes not very efficient either.

WTF does that even mean? I'd say 55% ts is pretty efficient.



-Rose is not the player that sets up teammates, hell paul averaged 10 assists playing on a team with really no good offensive players. Rose has Deng, Boozer and great 3 pt shooters to work with.

Greatn 3pt shooters? Is this a joke? Between Deng and the few minutes a game that Korver played, we weren't exactly full of 3pt shooters where Bogans' % of 38 was awful when almost NONE of his shots were contested.

I'm not gonna deny, that Rose had some talented offensive players though. He did. And he's no Paul in that regard. But aside from Nash these days, no one is. Rose is still an above average passer though, and running the right type of offense also has an effect on such things.

Wade>You
12-13-2011, 06:44 PM
Dallas can't trade for Dwight Howard, it'd make Mark Cuban look like the biggest hypocrite of all time after that hissy fit he threw over the Lakers acquiring CP3.

Twista
12-13-2011, 06:44 PM
Were did i say john wall is better than him dumbass?
I said John Wall can become the better PG, he's not there now, but he very well could be.

damn i gotta start underlining **** for bulls fans, u guys are too sensitive about rose.. He's not ****ing MJ

Riiiight, and Kyrie Irving might be better than Lebron James. He's not there now, but he could be, someday...

Damn, you really gotta start underlining the useless crap you say so I don't have to read it.

Kyben36
12-13-2011, 06:46 PM
If he's left with no choice he'll go to the bulls,, but you'll have to pay a king's ransom

Disagree intirely, the player has no say in what the team offers the best offer, if the bulls make a better offer than the Nets, but he wants to go to the nets, what do the Magic owners care what he wants, they got the better offer from the bulls, and since both are in the same conference anyway, thats not realy an excuse. it depends on what they can get from each team, not just what dwight wants, I hate the people act like players have a choice other than signing a FA contract, otherwise, they are IMO a product that the team is paying for, and can sell at whatever price they want.

5ass
12-13-2011, 06:46 PM
WTF does that even mean? I'd say 55% ts is pretty efficient.




Greatn 3pt shooters? Is this a joke? Between Deng and the few minutes a game that Korver played, we weren't exactly full of 3pt shooters where Bogans' % of 38 was awful when almost NONE of his shots were contested.

I'm not gonna deny, that Rose had some talented offensive players though. He did. And he's no Paul in that regard. But aside from Nash these days, no one is. Rose is still an above average passer though, and running the right type of offense also has an effect on such things.

wow now shooting 38% bogans and korver's 41% from 3pt land, playing 38 minutes combined is not good? what r u talking about man, they are SPOT UP shooters, you're supposed to hit them when they're open, thats their ROLE on the team.

oh and waht i mean with rose not being very efficient is that you dont want your teams offense lying solely on him. thats what i mean. i bet you watched the heat series and agree with me.
would u rather see ur point guard drop 30 on 55% ts or for him to take a few less shots in order for ur pf to get a few more points on better efficiency?

tbomlad
12-13-2011, 06:47 PM
im still baffled as to why he chose orlando over chicago
lol dh12 and cp3 are breaking millions of hearts

Better organization, better arena, better weather, better quality of life, no state income tax, etc....
I'm baffled that you're baffled. :confused:

beardown4243
12-13-2011, 06:47 PM
I think Dwight doesn't want to go to Chicago because Rose isn't trying to recruit him, and some other big names in other cities are. Maybe Rose does have an ego (although hidden well) and wants to be the unquestioned star.

I don't know how anyone is arguing that the Nets have more talent even after a trade than the Bulls. The Nets have DWill and a bunch of scrubs.

5ass
12-13-2011, 06:48 PM
Riiiight, and Kyrie Irving might be better than Lebron James. He's not there now, but he could be, someday...

Damn, you really gotta start underlining the useless crap you say so I don't have to read it.

pshh, im not going to get into this argument with a kid. you can say what u want, any intelligent poster will read what i wrote and what you wrote and consider you the idiot, so i really dont care..

Twista
12-13-2011, 06:49 PM
pshh, im not going to get into this argument with a kid. you can say what u want, any intelligent poster will read what i wrote and what you wrote and consider you the idiot, so i really dont care..

You literally said you would take John Wall over Rose.

"If you're considering everything when taking in consideration who the "most desirable PG" is, i.e age, work ethic, ect.
honestly, i would take John Wall"

Who's the idiot?

RLundi
12-13-2011, 06:51 PM
Lol how did this turn into a Bulls vs Magic debate when the OP isn't a fan of either??

gaughan333
12-13-2011, 06:51 PM
I think Dwight doesn't want to go to Chicago because Rose isn't trying to recruit him, and some other big names in other cities are. Maybe Rose does have an ego (although hidden well) and wants to be the unquestioned star.

I don't know how anyone is arguing that the Nets have more talent even after a trade than the Bulls. The Nets have DWill and a bunch of scrubs.

But what about humphries (who isn't even under contract with the team) and Kirelenko (also not under contract). Those players are really good for the nets.

5ass
12-13-2011, 06:52 PM
You literally said you would take John Wall over Rose.

"If you're considering everything when taking in consideration who the "most desirable PG" is, i.e age, work ethic, ect.
honestly, i would take John Wall"

Who's the idiot?

does that mean i think wall is better? if u really think that you have reading comprehension problems, go back to the 4th grade then come back and argue with me.

TylerSL
12-13-2011, 06:56 PM
I get that, but the Nets would still have many problems on the defensive side of the ball and if CP3 goes to the Clips there's no way LA could sign him. And I know as well as everyone that staying in ORL isn't an option for Dwight at this point.

I agree but here is how I see it. Howard's situation is like Wade's was in 09-10. He will only leave Orlando if he has to. Wade was only going to leave Miami if he couldnt bring people to him. Obviously, Wade did, and Howard wants to as well. Granted, Miami has Pat Riley to help convince players to come and Miami made a ton of cap space. But I think Orlando is where Howard wants to play, but will leave if he feels like he cant win.

Vincent
12-13-2011, 06:57 PM
-never said, rose in is inefficient on offense, dont quote me on something u made up, i said he's not VERY efficient of offense, meaning he's not inefficient, but hes not very efficient either.
-Rose is not the player that sets up teammates, hell paul averaged 10 assists playing on a team with really no good offensive players. Rose has Deng, Boozer and great 3 pt shooters to work with.
- i was only disagreeing with the guy saying there is no argument that makes rose not the most desirable PG in the game

lol

You understand how I can interpret, "Not very efficient" to being "inefficient" right? You make it sounds like I took something you said completely out of context, considering the definition of "inefficient" is "not efficient."

You can disagree all you want about who'd you take in the future for a PG. Doesn't mean your logic is sound.

Twista
12-13-2011, 06:57 PM
So you would take John Wall over Rose, but you don't think John Wall is better than Rose? Fascinating logic. You'd make a great GM.

So what, you'd pass over Rose because according to you he has some faults, but you would put your chips in with John Wall who MAYBE, MIGHT BE as good as Rose some day in a few years...but a guy who has just as many faults as Rose as far as his game goes if not more, has not demonstrated any leadership qualities, will to win or work ethic yet to make you think he will be as good.

So you're really just banking on blind faith and hope, nice.

kozelkid
12-13-2011, 06:58 PM
wow now shooting 38% bogans and korver's 41% from 3pt land, playing 38 minutes combined is not good? what r u talking about man, they are SPOT UP shooters, you're supposed to hit them when they're open, thats their ROLE on the team.

:laugh2:

I've explained to you about Bogans. There's a reason we hated him. He shot 38% when his shots were WIDE open.

Let me explain this to you at an easier level since you didn't get it the first time. Being a spot up shooter doesn't mean all your shots are wide open. It also means defense SHOULD respect you and are locked on you at all times so that you don't get an open shot, but at the same time open up the floor for your teammates. If guys like Korver, Jrich, Allen etc. all had open shots, they'd be shooting closer to 50-60 % from there.

That's my point. No defense in the world EVER respected Bogans and constantly played off him to help on Rose or Deng. That isn't playing a role of a spot up shooter. That's called being a useless player offensively.

As for Korver, sure he's very good, but he only played like 20mpg. The rest were used up by a turd named Bogans and Brewer who can't shoot for ****.



oh and waht i mean with rose not being very efficient is that you dont want your teams offense lying solely on him. thats what i mean. i bet you watched the heat series and agree with me.
would u rather see ur point guard drop 30 on 55% ts or for him to take a few less shots in order for ur pf to get a few more points on better efficiency?

Obviously, but that comes down to our PF not being constantly injured so that he can have some use offensively. Let's not kid ourselves, Boozer was **** offensively and even Paul couldn't have gotten him going. The guy was missing layups on a regular basis. He had no explosion. Let's hope a long offseason of healing changed that.

Rose was bad that series, but fact of the matter was that none of his teammates stepped up either at that end.

kozelkid
12-13-2011, 06:59 PM
Better organization, better arena, better weather, better quality of life, no state income tax, etc....
I'm baffled that you're baffled. :confused:

Lol, they've really showed that with their moves lately.

Chicagofaithful
12-13-2011, 07:01 PM
i actually thought there was a good chance
However, he probably wants to win a ring NOW

His absolute best shot to not only win now but for a decade was in Chicago... he doesn't get it... its cool let's all move on and let him continue to get eliminated early in the playoffs

Vincent
12-13-2011, 07:01 PM
Better organization, better arena, better weather, better quality of life, no state income tax, etc....
I'm baffled that you're baffled. :confused:

I'm pretty sure the Magic Organization is the laughing-stock of the NBA.

5ass
12-13-2011, 07:01 PM
So you would take John Wall over Rose, but you don't think John Wall is better than Rose? Fascinating logic. You'd make a great GM.

So what, you'd pass over Rose because according to you he has some faults, but you would put your chips in with John Wall who MAYBE, MIGHT BE as good as Rose some day in a few years...but a guy who has just as many faults as Rose as far as his game goes if not more, has not demonstrated any leadership qualities, will to win or work ethic yet to make you think he will be as good.

So you're really just banking on blind faith and hope, nice.

woooow, my god, ur dumber than i thought. let me break it down to you
Considering Wall has better IQ, passing, defense, just as good speed, athleticism, worse shot but still VERY young and could improve it very much, yes if i want to start a franchise today, i would take Wall.
you will see Wall pass Rose as the better PG in the nxt few years, just wait.
oh and btw ur judging all that about wall in his rookie season, when he had a better one than rose.

Twista
12-13-2011, 07:02 PM
Kris Humphries is kinda under rated. Why do people under rate him so much? Is it because he plays for the Nets or because he was married to Kim Kardashian?

Twista
12-13-2011, 07:04 PM
woooow, my god, ur dumber than i thought. let me break it down to you
Considering Wall has better IQ, passing, defense, just as good speed, athleticism, worse shot but still VERY young and could improve it very much, yes if i want to start a franchise today, i would take Wall.
you will see Wall pass Rose as the better PG in the nxt few years, just wait.
oh and btw ur judging all that about wall in his rookie season, when he had a better one than rose.

What are you talking about man? Everyone knows Ricky Rubio is the PG of the future. He's quick, has great BBall IQ, court vision and passing ability. His shot is kinda weak but just wait till he works on it a little bit, he's gonna be the best PG of ALL TIME yo. of ALL TIME.

:rolleyes:

5ass
12-13-2011, 07:06 PM
What are you talking about man? Everyone knows Ricky Rubio is the PG of the future. He's quick, has great BBall IQ, court vision and passing ability. His shot is kinda weak but just wait till he works on it a little bit, he's gonna be the best PG of ALL TIME yo. of ALL TIME.

:rolleyes:

yes sounding sacrastic and using emoticons, will only make u look dumber. Wall has the better tools to excel at the PG position than Rose, put up a poll, ask any intelligent basketball fan and he will agree with me.

kozelkid
12-13-2011, 07:06 PM
woooow, my god, ur dumber than i thought. let me break it down to you
Considering Wall has better IQ, passing, defense, just as good speed, athleticism, worse shot but still VERY young and could improve it very much, yes if i want to start a franchise today, i would take Wall.
you will see Wall pass Rose as the better PG in the nxt few years, just wait.
oh and btw ur judging all that about wall in his rookie season, when he had a better one than rose.

Oh, you're the grass is greener on the other side kind of guy.

So what happened when everyone said jennings would be better? And considering Rose was one of the best defensive pg's in the league last season (http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/19/rose-dwarfs-other-improvements-with-defense/), I have hard time believing Wall is better or has a better IQ.

Vincent
12-13-2011, 07:08 PM
Kris Humphries is kinda under rated. Why do people under rate him so much? Is it because he plays for the Nets or because he was married to Kim Kardashian?

It's because it's only one year. I'd like to see more years of that production before really believing in him.

Twista
12-13-2011, 07:09 PM
I must need lessons from you on how to look smart. For starters I can type U instead of you. U put up a poll on this forum dawg, half the people here think Lebron James sucks and Melo is top 5 in the NBA. A poll on this site is worth about as much as a pile of crap.

5ass
12-13-2011, 07:10 PM
:laugh2:

I've explained to you about Bogans. There's a reason we hated him. He shot 38% when his shots were WIDE open.

Let me explain this to you at an easier level since you didn't get it the first time. Being a spot up shooter doesn't mean all your shots are wide open. It also means defense SHOULD respect you and are locked on you at all times so that you don't get an open shot, but at the same time open up the floor for your teammates. If guys like Korver, Jrich, Allen etc. all had open shots, they'd be shooting closer to 50-60 % from there.

That's my point. No defense in the world EVER respected Bogans and constantly played off him to help on Rose or Deng. That isn't playing a role of a spot up shooter. That's called being a useless player offensively.

As for Korver, sure he's very good, but he only played like 20mpg. The rest were used up by a turd named Bogans and Brewer who can't shoot for ****.




Obviously, but that comes down to our PF not being constantly injured so that he can have some use offensively. Let's not kid ourselves, Boozer was **** offensively and even Paul couldn't have gotten him going. The guy was missing layups on a regular basis. He had no explosion. Let's hope a long offseason of healing changed that.

Rose was bad that series, but fact of the matter was that none of his teammates stepped up either at that end.
dont talk to me like an idiot, u will put down ur whole team to make Rose look better, thats ********.
u wanna go see a PG take over a game the right way, go watch the laker series vs hornets. Paul made Aaron ****ing Grey look good offensively.

5ass
12-13-2011, 07:13 PM
Oh, you're the grass is greener on the other side kind of guy.

So what happened when everyone said jennings would be better? And considering Rose was one of the best defensive pg's in the league last season (http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/19/rose-dwarfs-other-improvements-with-defense/), I have hard time believing Wall is better or has a better IQ.

u really believe rose is one of the best defensive pgs in the game? i dont need stats, ive watched him play, the only reason his stats look so good is because the rest of the team can hide his defensive mistakes. DONE ARGUING WITH HOMERS, this is going nowhere.

Chi StateOfMind
12-13-2011, 07:14 PM
Lol, this is still going on. Dwight doesn't wanna come here. PERIOD!!!

99.9% of Bulls fans will tell you that this team 62 games last year and would take this team again and again. Give us a better starting SG and were good. Its Dwight's loss not ours. When the Bullls win a championship before him, we will get the last laugh. I hope he goes to NJ or stays in Orlando so he can continue to lose every year to us,Miami or NY.

5ass
12-13-2011, 07:14 PM
I must need lessons from you on how to look smart. For starters I can type U instead of you. U put up a poll on this forum dawg, half the people here think Lebron James sucks and Melo is top 5 in the NBA. A poll on this site is worth about as much as a pile of crap.

wow i use abbreviations on a forum, who cares im not writing u a ****ing formal essay. This is how ur trying to criticize me? GTFO

Twista
12-13-2011, 07:15 PM
dont talk to me like an idiot, u will put down ur whole team to make Rose look better, thats ********.
u wanna go see a PG take over a game the right way, go watch the laker series vs hornets. Paul made Aaron ****ing Grey look good offensively.

Paul did not take over in the right way against the Lakers, many people think he shot too little in the games they lost. He put up more than 14 shots in the games they won and less than 14 in the games they lost. Coincidence? Maybe Paul could take a little lesson from "shoot first" Pg's...

DR_1
12-13-2011, 07:15 PM
If the Nets pull out by signing Nene and Bynum gets injured, this list would get bigger.

gaughan333
12-13-2011, 07:16 PM
If you think bogans is anything but garbage you must not have seen him play. He is really bad offensively

Vincent
12-13-2011, 07:17 PM
yes sounding sacrastic and using emoticons, will only make u look dumber. Wall has the better tools to excel at the PG position than Rose, put up a poll, ask any intelligent basketball fan and he will agree with me.

Better tools?

Like what? Being smaller than Rose? Being not as strong as Rose? Not having his vertical?

Or maybe it's his lack of a jumper, or maybe it's having a worse ft percentage than Rose. Maybe it's his 40% FG percentage.

Or maybe its his lack of ability to win games at this level, or stay healthy.

People are dazzled by the potential of Wall. I'm more dazzled by the results of Rose.

Chi City23
12-13-2011, 07:17 PM
dont talk to me like an idiot, u will put down ur whole team to make Rose look better, thats ********.
u wanna go see a PG take over a game the right way, go watch the laker series vs hornets. Paul made Aaron ****ing Grey look good offensively.

I didn't know there was a wrong way to take over a game lol.. it's pretty obvious you hate Rose so stop wasting everyone's time and move on.

Twista
12-13-2011, 07:17 PM
u really believe rose is one of the best defensive pgs in the game? i dont need stats, ive watched him play, the only reason his stats look so good is because the rest of the team can hide his defensive mistakes. DONE ARGUING WITH HOMERS, this is going nowhere.

According to the stats, Rose is one of the better defenders at the PG position. Of course you don't care about stats, because they disagree with your argument. How convenient. You're one of these "I don't need stats, I watch the game" people. Then you want people to stop talking to you like you're an idiot.

kozelkid
12-13-2011, 07:18 PM
dont talk to me like an idiot, u will put down ur whole team to make Rose look better, thats ********.

I was unaware that putting down one player is the whole team. I accept the limitations of the the rest of our players. Brewer is a fantastic defender, but can't shoot at all. I'd be happy if Bogans was our 10th man, but not our starting sg. He had no business starting. In fact, I wished Thibs would have started Korver since that was our most efficient team.

Deng is one of my favorite players who did everything that asked for and was without a doubt our more important player defensively. Boozer was ****, and there's no defending that. Noah was very good til he got injured. I can go on.


u wanna go see a PG take over a game the right way, go watch the laker series vs hornets. Paul made Aaron ****ing Grey look good offensively.

There is no "right way". That's what people like you don't understand. It's because of people like you it took 10 years before people realized that Dirk is a top 30 player of all time. It's because of people like you that guys like Billups were underappreciated for so long. You're stuck on an identity of a position, which means jack ****.

And Paul was a boss that series. You're talking to the wrong person. I've said it for awhile that I think Paul is the best player in the league when healthy. But that doesn't mean Rose has to be a pass first pg to be great. He plays like Wade and Lebron more than like Paul or Deron. There's nothing wrong with that. Bottom line, whichever style means more wins, that's what I want.

If Rose statistically ends up identical to Wade and Wall to Deron, then Rose is clearly superior. If Wall ends up more like Paul, only then maybe you have a case. I have my doubts though. Paul is an amazing shooter. I have a hard time thinking Wall will ever be that good. Nor have the vision of Paul.

Twista
12-13-2011, 07:19 PM
Better tools?

Like what? Being smaller than Rose? Being not as strong as Rose? Not having his vertical?

Or maybe it's his lack of a jumper, or maybe it's having a worse ft percentage than Rose. Maybe it's his 40% FG percentage.

Or maybe its his lack of ability to win games at this level, or stay healthy.

People are dazzled by the potential of Wall. I'm more dazzled by the results of Rose.

LOL, truth. John Wall is a very one dimensional, highly flawed player. I have no idea how any NBA GM or owners in their right mind would take Wall over Rose.

5ass
12-13-2011, 07:19 PM
Better tools?

Like what? Being smaller than Rose? Being not as strong as Rose? Not having his vertical?

Or maybe it's his lack of a jumper, or maybe it's having a worse ft percentage than Rose. Maybe it's his 40% FG percentage.

Or maybe its his lack of ability to win games at this level, or stay healthy.

People are dazzled by the potential of Wall. I'm more dazzled by the results of Rose.

almost everything u said is wrong
1. wall is slighlty taller than rose
2. wall has just a good a vertical, maybe very slightly worse.
3. he has so many years to improve, just like rose did. Rose will never have the court vision wall has PERIOD

naps
12-13-2011, 07:20 PM
I want him to stay in Orlando or go to the Nets if he wants to leave anyway.

Vincent
12-13-2011, 07:21 PM
dont talk to me like an idiot, u will put down ur whole team to make Rose look better, thats ********.
u wanna go see a PG take over a game the right way, go watch the laker series vs hornets. Paul made Aaron ****ing Grey look good offensively.

The "right" way?

Seems like the "right" way is whoever wins.

Rose took over the "right" way by actually winning the Pacers and Atlanta series by carrying the offensive load and dishing to Korver when everyone focused on him.

But I shouldn't have to tell you that, seeing how your arguments are "I don't need stats, watched him play."

You probably would've seen him ROAST Deron, Chris, and John on the head-to-head matchups.

Vincent
12-13-2011, 07:22 PM
almost everything u said is wrong
1. wall is slighlty taller than rose
2. wall has just a good a vertical, maybe very slightly worse.
3. he has so many years to improve, just like rose did. Rose will never have the court vision wall has PERIOD

Combine results don't lie buddy.

gaughan333
12-13-2011, 07:24 PM
I want him to go to the bobcats.

Twista
12-13-2011, 07:26 PM
almost everything u said is wrong
1. wall is slighlty taller than rose
2. wall has just a good a vertical, maybe very slightly worse.
3. he has so many years to improve, just like rose did. Rose will never have the court vision wall has PERIOD

Maybe. And Wall will never have the shooting ability and offensive game that Rose has.

Do me a favor, compare Chris Pauls rookie stats to John Walls and Derrick Rose's. what do you notice?

I'll tell you what you should notice: Chris Paul came into the league as a very good shooter and only improved. Derrick Rose came into the league as a good shooter (not as good as Paul) and only improved. John Wall came into the league as a poor shooter, and his ceiling is lower in that regard. He ain't EVER gonna be the offensive force Rose and Paul are.

gaughan333
12-13-2011, 07:26 PM
Combine results don't lie buddy.

What did you mean by bigger? John Wall is taller than Rose if that's what you meant.

blastmasta26
12-13-2011, 07:31 PM
According to the stats, Rose is one of the better defenders at the PG position. Of course you don't care about stats, because they disagree with your argument. How convenient. You're one of these "I don't need stats, I watch the game" people. Then you want people to stop talking to you like you're an idiot.
What stats show this?

MassoDio
12-13-2011, 07:34 PM
What stats show this?

http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/19/rose-dwarfs-other-improvements-with-defense/

Here is a link to an article and stats that was posted by another poster on the previous page of this thread.

ChiSoxJuan
12-13-2011, 07:34 PM
Two of the teams on his list have no state income tax. The other teams on his list play in the top 2 markets in the NBA. The only thing baffling is that he did not include Chicago, but the other 4 make sense. In addition he should have included the Lakers co-tenants the Clippers. I think all of this again points to his immaturity. That's why he's getting sick over this. He doesn't know how to handle.

j11430
12-13-2011, 07:47 PM
Not just being a homer, but I can't think of a reason he wouldn't want to come to Chicago. I'm not a huge basketball follower, so could someone possibly fill me in?

Other than that I'd say Dallas makes the most sense. Gives them a young guy to build around as the nucleus of that team is on the older side

Twista
12-13-2011, 07:50 PM
Not just being a homer, but I can't think of a reason he wouldn't want to come to Chicago. I'm not a huge basketball follower, so could someone possibly fill me in?

Other than that I'd say Dallas makes the most sense. Gives them a young guy to build around as the nucleus of that team is on the older side

Too cold, brrrr. Those weak *** girly men in the South and West can't handle winter, they freeze to death in 40 degree weather.


Joking obviously, just to clarify for anybody who's about to throw a fit.

5ass
12-13-2011, 07:54 PM
Its funny how Bulls fans see Rose as Michael Jordon, Steve Nash, Gary Payton and Jesus Christ all rolled up into one.

5ass
12-13-2011, 07:55 PM
I didn't know there was a wrong way to take over a game lol.. it's pretty obvious you hate Rose so stop wasting everyone's time and move on.

loool off wikipedia:

Point guard (PG), also called the play maker or "the ball-handler", is one of the standard positions in a regulation basketball game. A point guard has perhaps the most specialized role of any position – essentially, he is expected to run the team's offense by controlling the ball and making sure that it gets to the right players at the right time.

this is what i mean by a real PG, rose is a great player, not a great PG. its pretty obvious u are blinded by you're love for Rose.

Vincent
12-13-2011, 07:59 PM
What did you mean by bigger? John Wall is taller than Rose if that's what you meant.

I meant build, not necessarily height.

Vincent
12-13-2011, 08:00 PM
loool off wikipedia:

Point guard (PG), also called the play maker or "the ball-handler", is one of the standard positions in a regulation basketball game. A point guard has perhaps the most specialized role of any position – essentially, he is expected to run the team's offense by controlling the ball and making sure that it gets to the right players at the right time.

this is what i mean by a real PG, rose is a great player, not a great PG. its pretty obvious u are blinded by you're love for Rose.

lol wikipedia?

What happens if he is the right player most of the time?

Raph12
12-13-2011, 08:00 PM
Everyone wants him, doesn't make this news; we knew those were the 3 teams he'd resign with if traded.

Ebbs
12-13-2011, 08:02 PM
Big D.

Twista
12-13-2011, 08:02 PM
Its funny how Bulls fans see Rose as Michael Jordon, Steve Nash, Gary Payton and Jesus Christ all rolled up into one.

Why are you even still here? If I was dumb enough to say I would take Wall over Rose, I'd have sense enough to be embarrassed and would slink away in shame and humiliation. You don't even realize when you've embarrassed yourself, that's sad.

5ass
12-13-2011, 08:02 PM
lol wikipedia?

What happens if he is the right player most of the time?

well when people dont know what PG really means, i use wikipedia to explain..

and what do u mean?

5ass
12-13-2011, 08:04 PM
Why are you even still here? If I was dumb enough to say I would take Wall over Rose, I'd have sense enough to be embarrassed and would slink away in shame and humiliation. You don't even realize when you've embarrassed yourself, that's sad.

dont like it? dont read my posts and move the **** on, i have more knowledge of basketball in my fingernail than u have overall.
only person who has humiliated himself is you, yet you still think ur right. **** for brains!

Vincent
12-13-2011, 08:05 PM
well when people dont know what PG really means, i use wikipedia to explain..

and what do u mean?

Well he's the best scorer on the team. So in most situations, it's probably best for him to keep the ball and score.

So in a sense, he's "expected to run the team's offense by controlling the ball and making sure that it gets to the right players at the right time."

Twista
12-13-2011, 08:07 PM
Yeah you have knowledge of basketball alright! LOL

tell any GM in the league that you don't think Rose is a good PG, they'll laugh right in your face.

5ass
12-13-2011, 08:08 PM
Well he's the best scorer on the team. So in most situations, it's probably best for him to keep the ball and score.

So in a sense, he's "expected to run the team's offense by controlling the ball and making sure that it gets to the right players at the right time."

what? I've seen Rose in sooooo many plays where he doesnt make the right pass, haven't you?

kozelkid
12-13-2011, 08:10 PM
Its funny how Bulls fans see Rose as Michael Jordon, Steve Nash, Gary Payton and Jesus Christ all rolled up into one.

Wrong. Michael Jordan, Steve Nash, Jesus Shuttleworth, Moses, God, and Eminem.

5ass
12-13-2011, 08:11 PM
Yeah you have knowledge of basketball alright! LOL

tell any GM in the league that you don't think Rose is a good PG, they'll laugh right in your face.

again ur idiocy amazes me
i said rose isnt a great PG, but a great player.
he is a decent PG, he does make some good plays sometimes, but he isnt an elite passer and playmaker.

i made it large enough for you to not miss that one.

kozelkid
12-13-2011, 08:11 PM
loool off wikipedia:

Point guard (PG), also called the play maker or "the ball-handler", is one of the standard positions in a regulation basketball game. A point guard has perhaps the most specialized role of any position – essentially, he is expected to run the team's offense by controlling the ball and making sure that it gets to the right players at the right time.

this is what i mean by a real PG, rose is a great player, not a great PG. its pretty obvious u are blinded by you're love for Rose.
:laugh:

You know you have nothing going for you when you need wikipedia as your source to prove a point about basketball. I just might have to sig this.

Vincent
12-13-2011, 08:12 PM
what? I've seen Rose in sooooo many plays where he doesnt make the right pass, haven't you?

I've seen a ton of plays where he makes the impossible pass, where I didn't even think the guy had a chance to be open.

Maybe you're focusing too much on the Miami series.

No point guard is perfect. And Rose is far from perfect. But for the most part he runs the offense well.

He's also the biggest threat on the floor at all times, and can create off the dribble better than anyone I've seen in the league.

Chi City23
12-13-2011, 08:13 PM
loool off wikipedia:

Point guard (PG), also called the play maker or "the ball-handler", is one of the standard positions in a regulation basketball game. A point guard has perhaps the most specialized role of any position – essentially, he is expected to run the team's offense by controlling the ball and making sure that it gets to the right players at the right time.

this is what i mean by a real PG, rose is a great player, not a great PG. its pretty obvious u are blinded by you're love for Rose.

I'm clearly not the one that is blinded. You obviously have no idea about basketball and can't comprehend that great players do whatever it takes for their teams to win basketball games regardless of position. If you haven't notice the NBA has changed and so have the rules (no hand checking, defensive 3sec, etc)

Winning the right way or winning however = winning period!! Are you that delusional or are you just blinded by hate? CP3 is an exceptional player and I know that but you dismiss Rose like he's not even a top 5 PG which is very laughable.

There's an argument for who's better between CP3 and Rose and I can understand that and debate but coming up with stupid points like 'winning the right way' is well idiotic and makes you look bad. Come up with better arguments and we can have an intelligent debate about this.

5ass
12-13-2011, 08:13 PM
:laugh:

You know you have nothing going for you when you need wikipedia as your source to prove a point about basketball. I just might have to sig this.

you know you have nothing going for you when you dont know what the definition of a point guard is.

Vincent
12-13-2011, 08:14 PM
again ur idiocy amazes me
i said rose isnt a great PG, but a great player.
he is a decent PG, he does make some good plays sometimes, but he isnt an elite passer and playmaker.

i made it large enough for you to not miss that one.

He's much, much better than a decent point guard. He's elite at his position.

5ass
12-13-2011, 08:15 PM
I'm clearly not the one that is blinded. You obviously have no idea about basketball and can't comprehend that great players do whatever it takes for their teams to win basketball games regardless of position. If you haven't notice the NBA has changed and so have the rules (no hand checking, defensive 3sec, etc)

Winning the right way or winning however = winning period!! Are you that delusional or do you just blinded by hate? CP3 is an exceptional player and I know that but you dismiss Rose like he's not even a top 5 PG which is very laughable.

There's an argument for who's better between CP3 and Rose and I can understand that and debate but coming up with stupid points like 'winning the right way' is well idiotic and makes you look bad. Come up with better arguments and we can have an intelligent debate about this.

again, plz just go read that post i enlarged, stop putting words in my mouth. never said "winning the right way" i said being the PG the right way, big difference.

5ass
12-13-2011, 08:16 PM
He's much, much better than a decent point guard. He's elite at his position.

he's an elite player, not an elite PG, in the traditional sense of what a PG is.
True or False?

Vincent
12-13-2011, 08:24 PM
he's an elite player, not an elite PG, in the traditional sense of what a PG is.
True or False?

False.

Because the point guard's role on the team is to generate offense. Whether that's through passing or scoring, is based on the decision making of the player.

That's like saying Isiah Thomas wasn't an elite point guard.

kozelkid
12-13-2011, 08:25 PM
you know you have nothing going for you when you dont know what the definition of a point guard is.

You mean the out-dated definition that's a cliché? Well aware.

It's idiotic and what has kept so many players from getting the recognition they deserve as I mentioned before.

While we are at it, I guess Dirk isn't a pf either, or if he is, he's inferior to Boozer cause he doesn't play like one. :facepalm:

kozelkid
12-13-2011, 08:27 PM
he's an elite player, not an elite PG, in the traditional sense of what a PG is.
True or False?

If you're trying to say he isn't an elite passer. Then you're right.

I don't give two ****s where it's at a traditional sense or not.

Again, I guess Dirk isn't elite at the traditional sense as a pf.

Do you realize how idiotic that sounds?

All that matters is that he's a great player. That's it. There really should be no more say on this topic.

iliketurtles24
12-13-2011, 08:28 PM
he forgot to list the wolves

Eagles4Lyfe
12-13-2011, 08:31 PM
I heard the Raptors on his list to from a source

5ass
12-13-2011, 08:35 PM
If you're trying to say he isn't an elite passer. Then you're right.

I don't give two ****s where it's at a traditional sense or not.

Again, I guess Dirk isn't elite at the traditional sense as a pf.

Do you realize how idiotic that sounds?

All that matters is that he's a great player. That's it. There really should be no more say on this topic.

HUGE diff., Dirk might not be a traditional PF, but he still puts up points as efficient as any PF in the league, which doesnt hurt his team. Rose shoots too much for my liking, 27 points on 39% fg and 25% 3pt in the playoffs hurt his team whether u want to admit it or not. I know it was partly because boozer was **** in the playoffs and they really didnt have any more offensive options, but thats why players like chris paul will make aaron grey look good, and rose just doesnt, he will make players better around him, but not as good as an elite PG.

would u rather have chris paul shooting less, but being more efficient and making his teammates look soo much better or rose scoring a **** load of points instead of getting better shots for his teammates?

5ass
12-13-2011, 08:36 PM
who has a better impact overall on his team offensively?
Rose or Nash/Cp3?

5ass
12-13-2011, 08:41 PM
You mean the out-dated definition that's a cliché? Well aware.

It's idiotic and what has kept so many players from getting the recognition they deserve as I mentioned before.

While we are at it, I guess Dirk isn't a pf either, or if he is, he's inferior to Boozer cause he doesn't play like one. :facepalm:

keep ur facepalms to urself, and tone down the cockiness.. read what i wrote above,

Vincent
12-13-2011, 08:42 PM
HUGE diff., Dirk might not be a traditional PF, but he still puts up points as efficient as any PF in the league, which doesnt hurt his team. Rose shoots too much for my liking, 27 points on 39% fg and 25% 3pt in the playoffs hurt his team whether u want to admit it or not. I know it was partly because boozer was **** in the playoffs and they really didnt have any more offensive options, but thats why players like chris paul will make aaron grey look good, and rose just doesnt, he will make players better around him, but not as good as an elite PG.

would u rather have chris paul shooting less, but being more efficient and making his teammates look soo much better or rose scoring a **** load of points instead of getting better shots for his teammates?

You're focusing on the 2011 playoffs.

If you looked at his career (even playoff numbers), they're more efficient than that.

Just looking a small sample size, especially one where he was injured, seems really short sighted.

5ass
12-13-2011, 08:44 PM
False.

Because the point guard's role on the team is to generate offense. Whether that's through passing or scoring, is based on the decision making of the player.

That's like saying Isiah Thomas wasn't an elite point guard.

generate offense EFFICIENTLY
also isiah was a better passer + play maker than rose, never in his whole career did isiah put up 20 shots per game. not even close.

5ass
12-13-2011, 08:45 PM
You're focusing on the 2011 playoffs.

If you looked at his career (even playoff numbers), they're more efficient than that.

Just looking a small sample size, especially one where he was injured, seems really short sighted.

no that was just an example

Vincent
12-13-2011, 08:46 PM
who has a better impact overall on his team offensively?
Rose or Nash/Cp3?

I would say they're about the same.

In a run-and-gun system, I would think Nash is more effective because of his jumper.

In a flex-offense, I think CP3 is the best, because he has the best court vision out of the three.

In a slowed down half court offense, Rose is superior because of his ability to beat any defender off the dribble to create offense.

kozelkid
12-13-2011, 08:46 PM
HUGE diff., Dirk might not be a traditional PF, but he still puts up points as efficient as any PF in the league, which doesnt hurt his team. Rose shoots too much for my liking, 27 points on 39% fg and 25% 3pt in the playoffs hurt his team whether u want to admit it or not. I know it was partly because boozer was **** in the playoffs and they really didnt have any more offensive options, but thats why players like chris paul will make aaron grey look good, and rose just doesnt, he will make players better around him, but not as good as an elite PG.

would u rather have chris paul shooting less, but being more efficient and making his teammates look soo much better or rose scoring a **** load of points instead of getting better shots for his teammates?

No there isn't.

You just realize your point is idiotic so you're just trying to get out of it.

Look, there's no denying that Rose played bad in the ECF. The whole team did at the offensive game. It was a defensive struggle (although it's funny that no one mentions how bad Wade played).

Paul is a better player, but it's not for the reason you described. He's a better player cause he's a better player. Deron Williams is a worse player and he happens to be pass first. So is Nash at this point of his career.

I want the player who plays better whether it means scoring more efficiently or getting his teammates to do it. Whatever does it.

5ass
12-13-2011, 08:49 PM
I would say they're about the same.

In a run-and-gun system, I would think Nash is more effective because of his jumper.

In a flex-offense, I think CP3 is the best, because he has the best court vision out of the three.

In a slowed down half court offense, Rose is superior because of his ability to beat any defender off the dribble to create offense.

not true. Rose is a better scorer, offense is about more than just scoring, its also about making ur offense more efficient, valuing each possession. Cp3 and nash are much better at that, even cp3 in a slowed down half court offense last year put up 10 assists, although he wasnt even fully healthy.

Vincent
12-13-2011, 08:50 PM
generate offense EFFICIENTLY
also isiah was a better passer + play maker than rose, never in his whole career did isiah put up 20 shots per game. not even close.

Rose has never had a season where he averaged 20 shots a game..

Isiah has come close at 18 shots per game, which is only 1 shot less than Rose's 19 shots per game last year.

But then again, you just wanna focus on the 15 playoff games last year. Once again, small sample size.

5ass
12-13-2011, 08:52 PM
No there isn't.

You just realize your point is idiotic so you're just trying to get out of it.

Look, there's no denying that Rose played bad in the ECF. The whole team did at the offensive game. It was a defensive struggle (although it's funny that no one mentions how bad Wade played).

Paul is a better player, but it's not for the reason you described. He's a better player cause he's a better player. Deron Williams is a worse player and he happens to be pass first. So is Nash at this point of his career.

I want the player who plays better whether it means scoring more efficiently or getting his teammates to do it. Whatever does it.

so ur saying dirk playing his game at the PF position hurt his team? no sorry, you are wrong, i realize what i say and everything i have backed up. you've done nothing to prove me wrong besides insult me and be sarcastic. you dont even make any points for me to call idiotic.

bottom line, your PG is responsible for your offense, if your offense is inefficient its mostly, but not entirely, because of him.

Vincent
12-13-2011, 08:53 PM
not true. Rose is a better scorer, offense is about more than just scoring, its also about making ur offense more efficient, valuing each possession. Cp3 and nash are much better at that, even cp3 in a slowed down half court offense last year put up 10 assists, although he wasnt even fully healthy.

Offense in any sport is never more than just scoring.

5ass
12-13-2011, 08:55 PM
Rose has never had a season where he averaged 20 shots a game..

Isiah has come close at 18 shots per game, which is only 1 shot less than Rose's 19 shots per game last year.

But then again, you just wanna focus on the 15 playoff games last year. Once again, small sample size.

Rose shot 19.7 shots last year look it up. isiah shot 17.9 once in his career, and lets not talk like the pistons success depended mostly on Isiah's offense. it was mostly the pistons (including Isiah's) defense, every basketball fan knows that.

Vincent
12-13-2011, 09:04 PM
Rose shot 19.7 shots last year look it up. isiah shot 17.9 once in his career, and lets not talk like the pistons success depended mostly on Isiah's offense. it was mostly the pistons (including Isiah's) defense, every basketball fan knows that.

That doesn't make Isiah any less of an Elite PG.

I'll agree with you that Rose needs to shoot less, and I think he will this year with a healthy cast and improved SG. But to say Rose isn't an Elite PG based on shot attempts seems like flawed logic to me.

5ass
12-13-2011, 09:05 PM
Offense in any sport is never more than just scoring.

then i guess jason kidd is a **** offensive player? no, you're wrong, its also about being efficient and getting ur teammates involved. If you can get one of your teammates going, its easier for him to then continue putting up points.

Blackwater13
12-13-2011, 09:09 PM
Deron + Humphries + Kirilenko > Rose + Boozer + Hamilton

On what planet? Not Earth surely.

Vincent
12-13-2011, 09:10 PM
then i guess jason kidd is a **** offensive player? no, you're wrong, its also about being efficient and getting ur teammates involved. If you can get one of your teammates going, its easier for him to then continue putting up points.

Is Jason Kidd an elite point right now?

He used to be able to score quite fine when he was an elite point guard.



I'm seriously wondering if you watched any Bulls games during the regular season last year.

5ass
12-13-2011, 09:10 PM
That doesn't make Isiah any less of an Elite PG.

I'll agree with you that Rose needs to shoot less, and I think he will this year with a healthy cast and improved SG. But to say Rose isn't an Elite PG based on shot attempts seems like flawed logic to me.

not just based on shot attempts, i gave you a lot of reasons why i dont think he's an elite PG. Go back and look over what i wrote. Anyway, i've put all my points out there and have repeated a lot of stuff many times, dont feel like arguing anymore and got **** to do.
I just glad some of my points got through to you guys, Rose is a great player, but i just disagree that he is an elite PG.
for every1 i called stupid and idiotic or watvr, no hard feelings.. just dont be too sensitive about your players, its good to criticize people when its warranted. No one is perfect.

5ass
12-13-2011, 09:12 PM
Is Jason Kidd an elite point right now?

He used to be able to score quite fine when he was an elite point guard.



I'm seriously wondering if you watched any Bulls games during the regular season last year.

i was talking prime Kidd, but you call quite fine some1 who has averaged 13 points on 40% shooting? no way man, kidd was a great player, not being able to shoot and score the ball, was one of his flaws.

Vincent
12-13-2011, 09:14 PM
not just based on shot attempts, i gave you a lot of reasons why i dont think he's an elite PG. Go back and look over what i wrote. Anyway, i've put all my points out there and have repeated a lot of stuff many times, dont feel like arguing anymore and got **** to do.
I just glad some of my points got through to you guys, Rose is a great player, but i just disagree that he is an elite PG.
for every1 i called stupid and idiotic or watvr, no hard feelings.. just dont be too sensitive about your players, its good to criticize people when its warranted. No one is perfect.

I read what you wrote just fine. I just disagree with you because you think in a box.

Vincent
12-13-2011, 09:15 PM
i was talking prime Kidd, but you call quite fine some1 who has averaged 13 points on 40% shooting? no way man, kidd was a great player, not being able to shoot and score the ball, was one of his flaws.

More like 16-18 points per game.

kozelkid
12-13-2011, 09:18 PM
so ur saying dirk playing his game at the PF position hurt his team? no sorry, you are wrong, i realize what i say and everything i have backed up. you've done nothing to prove me wrong besides insult me and be sarcastic. you dont even make any points for me to call idiotic.


I'm not saying it. I'm using your logic. You are too obsessed with the traditional definitions (I'm not insulting you, I'm being serious right now).

It annoys me that people continue to believe in the traditional definitions of positions that really don't mean anything.



bottom line, your PG is responsible for your offense, if your offense is inefficient its mostly, but not entirely, because of him.

No. The responsibility of your offense falls on your players and your coach. The right combination will provide an efficient offense, the wrong obviously won't.

I mean are you going to blame Derek Fisher if the LA offense is inefficient because he happens to be the pg? Again, this is what you appear to be point to. Which is wrong.

The responsibility of the offense will happen to fall most likely on your best players. In our case, obviously Rose. And he needs to play better, there's no question.

But that doesn't necessarily mean he has to pass more. That could mean he has to score more efficiently and he's fine. Again, don't look at him as a pg like Deron or Paul. Look at him as a Wade or Lebron and it'll be that much more clearer for you what we're trying to say here.

russianshoulder
12-13-2011, 09:45 PM
it's clear that dwight wants to play with a pg that can pass better than the rest, make shots, and defend... aka dwill and cp3... dwill clearly fits the bill and he is also one of the strongest pgs out there. D rose doesn't quite fit that bill as well as dwill or cp3.

kozelkid
12-13-2011, 09:58 PM
it's clear that dwight wants to play with a pg that can pass better than the rest, make shots, and defend... aka dwill and cp3... dwill clearly fits the bill and he is also one of the strongest pgs out there. D rose doesn't quite fit that bill as well as dwill or cp3.

I'm not sure that's necessary the clear reason. Maybe it is.

Or maybe he doesn't want to be "second fiddle" to Rose. Or maybe Prokhorov convinced Howard about all the "riches" he can get in Brooklyn. Who knows.

russianshoulder
12-13-2011, 10:20 PM
I'm not sure that's necessary the clear reason. Maybe it is.

Or maybe he doesn't want to be "second fiddle" to Rose. Or maybe Prokhorov convinced Howard about all the "riches" he can get in Brooklyn. Who knows.

and also, if howard plays with drose, he'd have to clear out of the paint more often... drose is a penetrating/finishing pg at the rim.... while dwill and cp3 are more of the shooters and they get the big men in the paint for easy shots