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View Full Version : Odom and Carter > Chandler?



JasonJohnHorn
12-13-2011, 03:58 PM
That Mavs lost a key piece to their championship team in Tyson Chandler, but have come around to add Lamar Odom and Vince Carter in the same week. They still dont have depth at center, but is the talent they added enough to keep them in contention?

kozelkid
12-13-2011, 04:08 PM
Can't really answer that. Odom is a terrific sixth man, but with his addition they seem to be moving even more away from their stingy defense with Chandler.

It all comes down to Haywood playing like he is capable of imo.

beasted86
12-13-2011, 04:16 PM
Haywood always seems to have these nagging types of injuries and conditioning issues... aside from that Chandler's defensive impact for the Mavs was greater than Odom's will be. We haven't started to talk about how much better Stevenson is defensively than Delonte, or how much better Caron is defensively than Vince.

Overall the team took a step back defensively.

BranWingss
12-13-2011, 04:19 PM
I don't think they have a bit of a downgrade at the moment. Love the signings, but losing Chandler hurts big time. They'd be overall better if they landed Sammy D. I look forward to watching the Mavericks this season.

sixer04fan
12-13-2011, 04:26 PM
They were better with Chandler

thekmp211
12-13-2011, 04:26 PM
chandler was the perfect fit for that team. i think both guys will help but overall, for this team, i think it's been downgrade.

tmacmamba
12-13-2011, 04:32 PM
Tyson Chandler was the difference maker for that team, its a BIG loss in my opinion he changed that team's whole dynamic however the lamar odom addition well at least get them to the western conference finals.

sep11ie
12-13-2011, 04:34 PM
Well the way I look at it is:

Chandelor is better than Haywood and JJ is better than VC. Does Odom make up for those downgrades?

Hawkeye15
12-13-2011, 04:35 PM
Unless Haywood has a career year, its a downgrade.

Iron24th
12-13-2011, 04:40 PM
Odom is better but Chandler was a better fit.

LADanks
12-13-2011, 04:40 PM
Odom, while a very good, versitle player, is not a great fit on the Mavs. His best position (by far) is PF, where he wont get a lot of action. He'll be playing a lot of his minutes out of position. Chandler, on the other hand, gave the Mavs exactly what they needed. Plus, it should be "is Vince and Odom > Chandler and Barea?"

Hawkeye15
12-13-2011, 04:41 PM
Odom is better but Chandler was a better fit.

exactly.

AntiG
12-13-2011, 04:45 PM
LOL no. Not even close. Chandler is one of the best centers in the NBA. Adding Odom and Carter add depth to the Mavs but the downgrade at center hurts them quite a lot.

ink
12-13-2011, 04:55 PM
Odom is better but Chandler was a better fit.

Exactly. He took care of a chronic need for the Mavs. Now Dirk will see time at C where he is not the strongest.

Big step back.

billsftw
12-13-2011, 05:15 PM
inb4 mavs fans argue they're better

MrfadeawayJB
12-13-2011, 05:16 PM
odom helps a bit on the boards, but i feel like Carter=chemistry issues. we will see

ThuglifeJ
12-13-2011, 05:41 PM
um Odom and Carter are both better bball players overall than any mavs that left..but that's not always the key. Cuban did what he could, props, but Centers are hard to come across these days.
Right now its a little bit of a downgrade till they get a better Center. Chandler is a bit overhyped now, but he IS a good center which is hard to find now days.

We will see though, cant answer right now, they have more weapons and depth, but need a defensive center asap.

they arent as good as last year imo, more talented though.

marj987
12-13-2011, 05:44 PM
Why are people overrating Chandler just cause he had one good year with Dallas?just because he Had ONE Good year with us doesnt mean he's just walking talking statue of liberty god, I believe Carter and Odom is better than Chandler, just cause Chandler does not left. Doesn't mean it will mess up the Mavs chances for anything.

Dolfan305
12-13-2011, 05:45 PM
Maybe, but the Mavs didn't just lose Chandler. They also lost Butler and Barea.
Chandler/barea/Butler> Odom/Carter

ThuglifeJ
12-13-2011, 05:46 PM
I dont tihnk anyone thinks Chandlers that outstanding by any means, or more talented than Carter/Odom but it's just the whole factor of Interior Defense. Carter/Odom are more weapons and depth.

Kashmir13579
12-13-2011, 05:47 PM
It makes losing Chandler less of a catastrophe.

Iron24th
12-13-2011, 05:58 PM
Why are people overrating Chandler just cause he had one good year with Dallas?just because he Had ONE Good year with us doesnt mean he's just walking talking statue of liberty god, I believe Carter and Odom is better than Chandler, just cause Chandler does not left. Doesn't mean it will mess up the Mavs chances for anything.

Very strange to see Odom in another jersey.

Bruno
12-13-2011, 06:02 PM
carter, odom>chandler? maybe. probably not when you consider team synergy.

cater,odom>chandler, barea, butler?

not even close.

mightybosstone
12-13-2011, 06:06 PM
Odom is better but Chandler was a better fit.


exactly.

x2. If you asked me straight up who I think is a better player, I'd say Odom and wouldn't have to think that hard about it. But if you asked me what Dallas needs more, I'd say a defensive minded center. The Mavericks already have a dangerous, floor stretching offensive big man (Dirk) and a lengthy, versatile defender (Marion), so adding Odom to the Mavs doesn't fill those holes like he did in LA.

RCarlson85
12-13-2011, 06:13 PM
Odom is a really good rebounder, but Chander provided more than that. He was a defensive presence inside and provided toughness that Odom and Carter can't provide. The Mavs also got older than than they already are with the addtion of Odom and Carter and the subtraction of Chandler and Barea.

Tanakid777
12-13-2011, 06:18 PM
They've got a real good chance to make it Odom and Carter=Chandler. JJ's impact is waaaay overstated on these boards. Mavs fans wanted him gone half way through last season. Chandler has been overrated a bit as well, and made into some deified God-like incarnation of Wilt. When was the last time he had consecutive healthy seasons? 2 things will remedy the loss of Chandler: Haywood staying out of foul trouble, and Mahinmi or whoever ends up at backup center being able to match what Haywood gave us last year, and that's not taking into consideration the impact that LO and a motivated VC (better than people are giving him credit for) will have. Point is, they're a lot closer to being as good as or better than last ear's team than most are predicting. This doesn't qualify as a prediction of a repeat, as other teams (OKC, Miami, etc.) will improve as well, but strictly compared to last year's Mavs, they can be better

ayuntalo
12-13-2011, 06:22 PM
i dont mean to be a jerk, but they seem to be getting back on their old formula,
good potent offense, stacked, wins a lot of games...followed by a major let down

their team to me doesnt have the stability they have a year ago, what i mean by that is even if they struggle, they have a defense last year that can keep them on the game.
they have marion, butler, stevenson, brewer and kid on the perimeter, and down low they have the best defensive Center duo last year in Chandler and Haywood.

now they are down to Marion, Kid and Haywood. Also expect a decline on Haywood's defensive impact. he may have better stats compared to last year, but it is such a luxary last year to have 2 good defensive centers in case there is foul trouble

Lake_Show2416
12-13-2011, 06:22 PM
carter, odom>chandler? maybe. probably not when you consider team synergy.

cater,odom>chandler, barea, butler?

not even close.

ya the Mavs have gotten worse imo, Chandler has never been a stand out player due to his lack of offense but he's always been a top notch big man defender & that was brought to light even more from being on a high profiled team

Mavs were all offense before Chandler, so i think the loss of him is bigger than any replacements they've gathered, especially if u factor in losing Bulter & Barea

they r back to being a pure offensive team like we have all been used to

Lakers + Giants
12-13-2011, 06:52 PM
Why are people overrating Chandler just cause he had one good year with Dallas?just because he Had ONE Good year with us doesnt mean he's just walking talking statue of liberty god, I believe Carter and Odom is better than Chandler, just cause Chandler does not left. Doesn't mean it will mess up the Mavs chances for anything.

One good year is what you guys needed to win your 1st championship. Had he not had that "One" big year you guys wouldn't even be relevant right now. I'm not trying to be a douche but be grateful for that 1 year that brought Dallas its first chip.

29$JerZ
12-13-2011, 07:04 PM
Dallas didn't need more depth, it needed to retain its core.
They will miss Chandler when you see Hayword constantly fouling or missing games.

lakersfan01
12-13-2011, 07:15 PM
You still soon find out that when it matters most, Lamar disappears. Even a heavy Glen Davis is quicker than he is. Lamar only averaged 7 ppg in the playoffs last season. He did just as lousy of a job "defending" Dirk as Gasol did.

Vince Carter doesn't play good defense and shrinks in the playoffs as well.

I think the Mavs were more formidable with Tyson Chandler. However, I still believe the Mavs are the favorite to come out of the West, but many blockbuster moves are yet to be made by several teams.

Odom and Carter are pretty good patches to holes that were left by Barrea and Chandler, but those guys were killer and clutch.

John Walls Era
12-13-2011, 07:18 PM
Not a fan of Carter.

They should get Yao out of retirement for the vet min. Then they would really not need Chandler in the playoffs.

X12Celtics3
12-13-2011, 07:18 PM
I voted no, but that's because I wasn't paying attention and made the incorrect assumption that the poll was answering the question asked in the title... I should have caught that, but its kind of misleading nonetheless.

So anyway, no the combination of Odom and Carter is not as valuable to the team as Chandler was, but yes the team is still a contender despite their downgrade.

ink
12-13-2011, 07:23 PM
Why are people overrating Chandler just cause he had one good year with Dallas?

It's not about Chandler, it's about having an effective C to complement Dirk. They struggled for years to find someone and now after winning the championship they have a hole at C again.

Aust
12-13-2011, 07:29 PM
Chandler > Odom Carter

Nets/Raiders!
12-13-2011, 08:02 PM
I think we're the same actually. It's just the focus has now changed. Instead of being defensive, we can now outscore people and have lighter defensive intensity on the other side of the ball. I remember watching so many games last year where we couldn't score for SEVERAL minutes and it was a terrible and frustrating thing to watch. We won't have that problem this year.

Brendan Haywood is good enough to keep a defensive focus on the court. He is wayyyy better than Erick Dampier. Dwight Howard called him the most underrated defensive big man in the NBA, and he really is. Aside from getting dunked on by Kevin Durant, the dude plays extremely solid defense.

PS : it's gonna be hard to stop a pick and roll with Carter and Nowitzki. VERY hard.

Carter can now go to a team where he doesn't have to be "The Man" all the time. In New Jersey, Orlando, and Phoenix, he was leaned on heavily at times. He won't have that problem here with so many go to scorers at the end of games.

NetsPaint
12-13-2011, 08:18 PM
It's gonna be interesting. Will Dirk still play out of his mind in the post-season? Will Carter and Kidd, while obviously not in their prime, bring back some of their old chemistry to be good for the Mavs? Carter and Odom are versatile players, but I can't ignore the man in the paint not being there.

gatkins11
12-13-2011, 08:23 PM
Too early to tell.

gatkins11
12-13-2011, 08:23 PM
It's not about Chandler, it's about having an effective C to complement Dirk. They struggled for years to find someone and now after winning the championship they have a hole at C again.

Bingo.

Clippersfan86
12-13-2011, 08:27 PM
Wrong question. Real question would be are the sum of Odom+West+Carter enough to offset the big losses of Chandler+Barea+Stephenson+Brewer+Fernandez+Butler

The answer is clearly no. They got smaller and lost a lot of the depth that made them contenders. Odom is huge for them and almost made up for loss of Chandler... but giving away Fernandez and Brewer (both supposed to be big rotation guards for them this year) for peanuts was stupid.

I understand Cuban is hoping for Deron Williams but when you're a team defending your title it's not a good strategy to blow up the team and shoot for the stars.

Nets/Raiders!
12-13-2011, 08:31 PM
Wrong question. Real question would be are the sum of Odom+West+Carter enough to offset the big losses of Chandler+Barea+Stephenson+Brewer+Fernandez+Butler

The answer is clearly no. They got smaller and lost a lot of the depth that made them contenders. Odom is huge for them and almost made up for loss of Chandler... but giving away Fernandez and Brewer (both supposed to be big rotation guards for them this year) for peanuts was stupid.

I understand Cuban is hoping for Deron Williams but when you're a team defending your title it's not a good strategy to blow up the team and shoot for the stars.

Brewer or Fernandez or Butler didn't help us win a title. We also have Rodrigue Beaubois who wasn't used last year because of injuries (look him up) We have Brendan Haywood, a starting SG for the first time since Jerry Stackhouse. Roddy B is better than JJ Barea. We may have gotten stronger offensively but out defense got weaker. We're not expected to win off of defense anymore. We can finally score again.

allSUAVE
12-13-2011, 08:33 PM
Doing the postsean all I was saying "damn I wish the Knicks could get Tyson chandler and JJ brea "

You'll see very soon how important those two was for the mavs

MTar786
12-13-2011, 08:33 PM
the question is tough to answer because it is not phrased correctly.
personally id rather have odom and carter. hell, id rather have just odom over chandler.
But chandler is better for dallas because thats what they need. they dont need a vince carter.. they have jet. and other to do that.. also, by adding carter you are sacrificing what stevenson brought at the same time too. same goes for odom.. odom is great.. but where doe she play? you will have to take dirk out of position or out of the game if you want lo to produce. If you choose to put odom at the 3 then you're not going to get the ma output you could get from odom then.. because that is not his sweet position. you cant put odom at the 5 either because he is not strong enough. chandler was a presence that no one on the team could replace.. and that is why it is a big loss.

Clippersfan86
12-13-2011, 08:40 PM
Brewer or Fernandez or Butler didn't help us win a title. We also have Rodrigue Beaubois who wasn't used last year because of injuries (look him up) We have Brendan Haywood, a starting SG for the first time since Jerry Stackhouse. Roddy B is better than JJ Barea. We may have gotten stronger offensively but out defense got weaker. We're not expected to win off of defense anymore. We can finally score again.

Yea.... but here's the thing. You guys didn't need them as much last year with Stephenson starting and more depth. This year Rudy was going to be your starter and Brewer is an excellent back up wing who can play 3 positions. I think you're going to be surprised at how much depth you lost when you see an older team playing 66 games in such a short amount of time.

I love the Mavs but this offseason was definitely losing one for Mark Cuban and nobody can deny that.

Nets/Raiders!
12-13-2011, 08:42 PM
the question is tough to answer because it is not phrased correctly.
personally id rather have odom and carter. hell, id rather have just odom over chandler.
But chandler is better for dallas because thats what they need. they dont need a vince carter.. they have jet. and other to do that.. also, by adding carter you are sacrificing what stevenson brought at the same time too. same goes for odom.. odom is great.. but where doe she play? you will have to take dirk out of position or out of the game if you want lo to produce. If you choose to put odom at the 3 then you're not going to get the ma output you could get from odom then.. because that is not his sweet position. you cant put odom at the 5 either because he is not strong enough. chandler was a presence that no one on the team could replace.. and that is why it is a big loss.

oh my god that is the funniest sig I have ever seen lmfaoooooooo :laugh:

5 minutes later and i'm still cracking the **** up

GhostfaceDrilla
12-13-2011, 08:43 PM
You still soon find out that when it matters most, Lamar disappears. Even a heavy Glen Davis is quicker than he is. Lamar only averaged 7 ppg in the playoffs last season. He did just as lousy of a job "defending" Dirk as Gasol did.

Vince Carter doesn't play good defense and shrinks in the playoffs as well.

I think the Mavs were more formidable with Tyson Chandler. However, I still believe the Mavs are the favorite to come out of the West, but many blockbuster moves are yet to be made by several teams.

Odom and Carter are pretty good patches to holes that were left by Barrea and Chandler, but those guys were killer and clutch.

Considering Kobe, who is basically Lamar's big brother, raves about how important he was to LA, your statement is not valid. And saying lousy job of defense on Dirk... no one can guard Dirk. NO ONE.

Lamar will be a 14/8/3 guy here who will be able to guard multiple positions. He will be a very valuable piece this year.

Vince has a role here. Start and score some points before JET comes in. He isn't being asked to be a 20 ppg scorer with 20 shots a game. He will give us a good 10-15 ppg. Only thing he needs to improve is his shot decisions which he can with this type of team.

Losing Chandler was huge and we won't be the defensive team we were last year but we can still contend, especially with Dirk playing the way he is. I expect a near career year from Dirk this year averaging around 25 ppg.

lavilevi23
12-13-2011, 08:44 PM
Chander, Barea, Butler, Stevenson, Peja, Brewer >>>>>>>>>>>> Vince, Odom, West

Nets/Raiders!
12-13-2011, 08:45 PM
Yea.... but here's the thing. You guys didn't need them as much last year with Stephenson starting and more depth. This year Rudy was going to be your starter and Brewer is an excellent back up wing who can play 3 positions. I think you're going to be surprised at how much depth you lost when you see an older team playing 66 games in such a short amount of time.

I love the Mavs but this offseason was definitely losing one for Mark Cuban and nobody can deny that.

I agree with that, I think we can still make a run at Stephenson, without him we might be in deep ****.

Clippersfan86
12-13-2011, 08:46 PM
Chander, Barea, Butler, Stevenson, Peja, Brewer >>>>>>>>>>>> Vince, Odom, West

That's the black and white of it.

GhostfaceDrilla
12-13-2011, 08:48 PM
Chander, Barea, Butler, Stevenson, Peja, Brewer >>>>>>>>>>>> Vince, Odom, West

Yeah because they are miles better than our new additions..... ****ing haters. Yeah I would rather have the first group but getting Odom, who by the way is an overall better player than Chandler, just not better in terms of impact defensively, is going to greatly help us.

Nets/Raiders!
12-13-2011, 08:49 PM
Chander, Barea, Butler, Stevenson, Peja, Brewer >>>>>>>>>>>> Vince, Odom, West

Yeah that maybe somewhat true. But if Deron Williams and Howard are pulling a Bosh-James to come here next season,

Deron Williams + Dwight Howard >>>>>>Chandler, Barea, Butler, Stevenson,Peja,Brewer + Vince,Odom,West.

That's the big picture. **** this year for all I care.

lavilevi23
12-13-2011, 08:56 PM
Yeah because they are miles better than our new additions..... ****ing haters. Yeah I would rather have the first group but getting Odom, who by the way is an overall better player than Chandler, just not better in terms of impact defensively, is going to greatly help us.

Look at it this way:
Chandler>Odom
Butler>Carter
Barea>West

Add to that losing Brewer, Peja, Stevenson and Fernandez who was supposed to start this year.

Tebow15Time
12-13-2011, 10:28 PM
lol,i fail to see how a 36 yr old carter and another pf in odom make them better than last year, but it wont matter, lebron has a better chance of getting his hairline back than the mavs do at repeating in 2012

bovice163
12-13-2011, 10:34 PM
Carter and Odom make them a more perimeter oriented team. Chandler opened up so much for them down low both offensively and defensively, that I don't think two talented offensive players could make up for. Not to mention Chandler gave the Mavs an aura of toughness. Carter and Odom don't provide that. It won't be a devastating blow to the Mavs, since they are a veteran group who will figure out how to maximize their play style anyway, but it might be the difference between a repeat, and a bounce in the WCF.

GhostfaceDrilla
12-13-2011, 10:39 PM
Look at it this way:
Chandler>Odom
Butler>Carter
Barea>West

Add to that losing Brewer, Peja, Stevenson and Fernandez who was supposed to start this year.

As a player, Odom is better than Chandler.
I agree Butler is better than Carter but he was hurt for 50+ games plus the playoffs.
Delonte West could very well be better than Barea. We will see this year.

Vinylman
12-13-2011, 10:42 PM
one thing odom will be better at is scoring .....



TOP NOTCH WEED!





There are many truths in life and one that applies here is having VC on your team insures you won't win jack ****...

nolafan33
12-13-2011, 10:44 PM
Mavs have took a step back this year.

Vinylman
12-13-2011, 10:44 PM
As a player, Odom is better than Chandler.
I agree Butler is better than Carter but he was hurt for 50+ games plus the playoffs.
Delonte West could very well be better than Barea. We will see this year.

WOW... talk about denial... evey match up you had an advantage against the Lakers has vaporized... no one is scared of any of these guys you are bringing in... believe me, that is why mitch didn't give a **** about trading lamar to you guys....

YoungOne
12-13-2011, 10:53 PM
west when healthy will be better then barea overall..

BlondeBomber41
12-13-2011, 11:06 PM
Wrong question. Real question would be are the sum of Odom+West+Carter enough to offset the big losses of Chandler+Barea+Stephenson+Brewer+Fernandez+Butler

The answer is clearly no. They got smaller and lost a lot of the depth that made them contenders. Odom is huge for them and almost made up for loss of Chandler... but giving away Fernandez and Brewer (both supposed to be big rotation guards for them this year) for peanuts was stupid.

I understand Cuban is hoping for Deron Williams but when you're a team defending your title it's not a good strategy to blow up the team and shoot for the stars.

Brewer/Fernandez/Butler? Oh you mean the three guys that had zero impact on the championship run last year basically? Get real.

Its Chandler/JJ/Stevenson vs Odom/Carter/West. Neither Fernandez or Brewer were going to be "big rotation guards" with Vince Carter, Jason Terry, Lamar Odom and Shawn Marion blocking them.

They lost alot of depth? Lamar Odom, Jason Terry, Delonte West, Rodrigue Beaubois... and the Mavs aren't done yet. They clearly made those moves today in order to clear up some roster spots to add a free agent center or two. Still have PLENTY of depth, the best in the league.

MTar786
12-13-2011, 11:21 PM
i like how chanlder all of a sudden became the sh#t
odom is way better than tyson.. but not for dallas