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Anilyzer
12-09-2011, 04:58 AM
The simple fact that after the long lockout and all of the calls for a hard salary cap and all of the complaining about the unfairness of big market teams being able to go over the cap, that Gilbert insists the CP3 deal must be cancelled because it will bring the Laker salary cap number DOWN and cause them to pay LESS luxury tax, is beyond absurd.

Gilbert literally says that if the Lakers pay less luxury tax it is equivalent to taking money AWAY from small market teams; the deal will lower the Lakers salary cap number, because of smart management and a willingness to send full value for CP3 in a risky move... therefore Gilbert says it is bad, because that luxury tax is revenue the small market teams deserve.

Are.You.Kidding.Me

The whole lockout was about the small market owners being unhappy with teams being over the cap (even though the Cavs had the highest payroll in the league a year ago), but now Gilbert insists that the NBA should block a valid trade on the grounds that it will LOWER the Lakers salary number, and thus cause them to pay less luxury taxes???

Somebody who agrees with Gilbert (and Gilbert's Gripe) please explain this to me. Like, NOW

gwrighter
12-09-2011, 05:06 AM
your taking it out of context. that was 1 issue. this post is probably better served in the other cp3 thread.

Arch Stanton
12-09-2011, 05:08 AM
The simple fact that after the long lockout and all of the calls for a hard salary cap and all of the complaining about the unfairness of big market teams being able to go over the cap, that Gilbert insists the CP3 deal must be cancelled because it will bring the Laker salary cap number DOWN and cause them to pay LESS luxury tax, is beyond absurd.

Gilbert literally says that if the Lakers pay less luxury tax it is equivalent to taking money AWAY from small market teams; the deal will lower the Lakers salary cap number, because of smart management and a willingness to send full value for CP3 in a risky move... therefore Gilbert says it is bad, because that luxury tax is revenue the small market teams deserve.

Are.You.Kidding.Me

The whole lockout was about the small market owners being unhappy with teams being over the cap (even though the Cavs had the highest payroll in the league a year ago), but now Gilbert insists that the NBA should block a valid trade on the grounds that it will LOWER the Lakers salary number, and thus cause them to pay less luxury taxes???

Somebody who agrees with Gilbert (and Gilbert's Gripe) please explain this to me. Like, NOW

Are you telling me that David Stern has fixed the NBA? And has Dan Gilbert in his back pocket?

Anilyzer
12-09-2011, 05:10 AM
your taking it out of context. that was 1 issue. this post is probably better served in the other cp3 thread.

No, it is NOT out of context.



"Over the next three seasons this deal would save the Lakers approximately $20 million in salaries and approximately $21 million in luxury taxes. That $21 million goes to non-taxpaying teams and to fund revenue sharing.

I cannot remember ever seeing a trade where a team got by far the best player in the trade and saved over $40 million in the process."

So please, if you can make ANY sense of this, please explain. Just trying to hide this question or the plain facts is not good for the NBA.

Also, I think you mean to say "thank you BIASED god", not "based god", in your signature. just fyi

;)

Anilyzer
12-09-2011, 05:13 AM
Are you telling me that David Stern has fixed the NBA? And has Dan Gilbert in his back pocket?

Now, I'm just saying that "The Letter", as it shall now be known, is ridiculous on its face, and directly requests Stern to block a trade for the EXACT OPPOSITE reasons that the foolish lockout was justified on.

Feel free to explain... I dare anyone. I dare any and all comers to try and say that The Letter is not foolish, IDIOTIC and hypocritical...

Arch Stanton
12-09-2011, 05:16 AM
Now, I'm just saying that "The Letter", as it shall now be known, is ridiculous on its face, and directly requests Stern to block a trade for the EXACT OPPOSITE reasons that the foolish lockout was justified on.

Feel free to explain... I dare anyone. I dare any and all comers to try and say that The Letter is not foolish, IDIOTIC and hypocritical...

So if it doesn't influence Sterns decision what does it matter what one owner feels?

gwrighter
12-09-2011, 05:18 AM
No, it is NOT out of context.



So please, if you can make ANY sense of this, please explain. Just trying to hide this question or the plain facts is not good for the NBA.

Also, I think you mean to say "thank you BIASED god", not "based god", in your signature. just fyi

;)

lol u mad

but the point was that other NON tax paying teams will have to pay the salary. whereas before the non-taxpaying teams would have gotten money from the LUX tax that the Lakers would have payed in revenue sharing(21 million) from paying the salary of gasol and co. u see the diff? that is a net savings of 40 million dollars for all 29 owners.

dave831
12-09-2011, 05:33 AM
Read the letter form a bucks fan point of view and it will help you understand. The fact is that they (the lakers) are dumping lager contracts of aging players towards the END of there NBA shelf life (lamla is 32 pau is 31) for a 26 year old point gard. I think this is the main point. The letter to stern is also saying is in the history of the NBA no team has mad a trade in witch they receive the best in the league at his position AND been the team dumping salary.......it's almost like the nets making a 3 way deal including the spurs and let's use the rockets. Now let's think it up this was tim Duncan takes pau's spot in the trade r.Jeff take lamras spot......not quite the same but you will get the point!
rockets get Timmy
Nets get- scola, Martin,r.Jeff,dragic and a 1st rounder from the Rockets(not spurs)
Spurs get d-will, r.Jeff off the books AND timmy off the books

Sound far?

naps
12-09-2011, 05:36 AM
Damn, what's up with all these threads coming up from disappointed Lakers fans every 10 minutes? Move the **** on.

Anilyzer
12-09-2011, 06:16 AM
lol u mad

but the point was that other NON tax paying teams will have to pay the salary. whereas before the non-taxpaying teams would have gotten money from the LUX tax that the Lakers would have payed in revenue sharing(21 million) from paying the salary of gasol and co. u see the diff? that is a net savings of 40 million dollars for all 29 owners.

Whether or not the Lakers pay luxury tax is their own business. We just finished a lockout where the "hardline" owners wanted a hard cap (no luxury tax!!!) and/or to eliminate the ability of teams to spend above the salary cap, or severely limit it.

Now Gilbert has publicly stated that he demands the CP3 trade be blocked, on grounds that it will LOWER the Lakers salary number, and that therefore the small teams will make less luxury tax revenue from the Lakers. Insane.

Also, the Hornets are under the cap, and have to spend 85% of the cap regardless, so it doesn't make a difference. Even if they give CP3 away for picks to Toronto, they STILL have to spend the exact same minimum amount (85% of the salary cap) under the new CBA.

So if Gilbert is implying that in the letter then it is doubly wrong. Hornets have to spend the league minimum, whether it is on crap or on good players like Scola, Odom and Martin, who will help them win and sell tickets. Also if they re-sign CP3 it will cost them much more. And if CP3 walks for nothing, again, the team has to spend 85% next year on whatever leftovers it can find.

Anilyzer
12-09-2011, 06:18 AM
So if it doesn't influence Sterns decision what does it matter what one owner feels?

Well, I guess it doesn't matter. If we can all just agree that the Cav's owner has completely discredited himself with this foolish letter, then we can all move along. OR if you think that Gilbert is really on to something here with "The Letter", then, please, feel free to explain.

:)

Anilyzer
12-09-2011, 06:23 AM
Read the letter form a bucks fan point of view and it will help you understand. The fact is that they (the lakers) are dumping lager contracts of aging players towards the END of there NBA shelf life (lamla is 32 pau is 31) for a 26 year old point gard. I think this is the main point. The letter to stern is also saying is in the history of the NBA no team has mad a trade in witch they receive the best in the league at his position AND been the team dumping salary.......it's almost like the nets making a 3 way deal including the spurs and let's use the rockets. Now let's think it up this was tim Duncan takes pau's spot in the trade r.Jeff take lamras spot......not quite the same but you will get the point!
rockets get Timmy
Nets get- scola, Martin,r.Jeff,dragic and a 1st rounder from the Rockets(not spurs)
Spurs get d-will, r.Jeff off the books AND timmy off the books

Sound far?

If the Lakers make a good deal by sending a 1st team All NBA PF and a 6th Man of the Year for one point guard, then the "fairness" of the deal shouldn't be questioned, least of all by Gilbert.

Also, notice that this is all a function of the Hornets wanting >> value for CP3, in this case three quality starting players and a 1st round draft pick. The Lakers have to send 2 for 1, so of course their salary will decrease. The argument can easily be made that the Lakers get the worse of this deal.

But this is all beside the point. The real gem of "The Letter" is Gilbert's claim that the Lakers not paying luxury tax is unfair to small market teams--AFTER WE JUST HAD A LOCKOUT WHERE THEY WERE SEEKING A HARD CAP!!!

Seriously, can anybody even begin to answer this?

babalu69
12-09-2011, 06:24 AM
lakers need to quit the nba and move to the euro league. Then finally the nba will die!!

dave831
12-09-2011, 07:02 AM
If the Lakers make a good deal by sending a 1st team All NBA PF and a 6th Man of the Year for one point guard, then the "fairness" of the deal shouldn't be questioned, least of all by Gilbert.

Also, notice that this is all a function of the Hornets wanting >> value for CP3, in this case three quality starting players and a 1st round draft pick. The Lakers have to send 2 for 1, so of course their salary will decrease. The argument can easily be made that the Lakers get the worse of this deal.

But this is all beside the point. The real gem of "The Letter" is Gilbert's claim that the Lakers not paying luxury tax is unfair to small market teams--AFTER WE JUST HAD A LOCKOUT WHERE THEY WERE SEEKING A HARD CAP!!!

Seriously, can anybody even begin to answer this?
Ok leave the quote out of it what he was trying to say is the team that is receiving the best player in the deal has never in the history of sport also been the team to gets a huge relief in cape space! 2 for 1.....the one is 26 the 2 are over 31 who do u think in your heart of hearts will have a more productive next 6 years in the NBA a guy who is "soft" per lakeshow fans from age 31-37 OR a guy who gets paid millions of $$ and can't keep eating habits in check from the age of 32-38 yes we are talking about MR. Candy Man him self still playing at age 38 Or Chris Paul at 26-32 years of age.... Look at it going forward pau and LO are at the end of the road cp3 is just getting started. If you look at it from that side the deal is very wrong! How ever by the NBA letting west make the pau trade in the 1st place they have set the standard for lopsided trades..with all that being said ******* the NBA go sharks/sf giants/cowboys!!! I like college basketball any way lol!

dave831
12-09-2011, 07:03 AM
I think the entire thing is a sh** show and a joke just trying to look at it objectively

MickeyMgl
12-09-2011, 07:04 AM
To hear Gilbert tell it, the Lakers are OBLIGED to pay the luxury tax and subsidize teams like his, so that those owners can sit on the sidelines and whine and ****** that the there is not competitive balance because the Lakers are going over the luxury tax threshold.

It's asinine.

dave831
12-09-2011, 07:17 AM
That's not the point he is making at all! It's about the contracts they give out to players and at they end when the contract becomes a "bad contact" they can dumb it and pick up the likes of cp3 and to a point I think it is about the lakes because they are A team that is always 20-40mill over the cap. The point I think Dan was trying to make here was you (the laker) gave LO these HUGE contracts that had a few too many years on them now you have to live with it! I know it's hard right know cuz sh** it crazy but if you step back and look at it objectively there are some truths on both side.

LAOwnsAll15
12-09-2011, 07:17 AM
To hear Gilbert tell it, the Lakers are OBLIGED to pay the luxury tax and subsidize teams like his, so that those owners can sit on the sidelines and whine and ****** that the there is not competitive balance because the Lakers are going over the luxury tax threshold.

It's asinine.

Hey, why do other owners have to worry about running a team. They can just rely on that good 'ole Luxury tax from teams that actually try and win.

dave831
12-09-2011, 07:18 AM
Lol and the best part of ^ just might be that I used "dumb" hahaha

Law25
12-09-2011, 07:20 AM
Ok leave the quote out of it what he was trying to say is the team that is receiving the best player in the deal has never in the history of sport also been the team to gets a huge relief in cape space! 2 for 1.....the one is 26 the 2 are over 31 who do u think in your heart of hearts will have a more productive next 6 years in the NBA a guy who is "soft" per lakeshow fans from age 31-37 OR a guy who gets paid millions of $$ and can't keep eating habits in check from the age of 32-38 yes we are talking about MR. Candy Man him self still playing at age 38 Or Chris Paul at 26-32 years of age.... Look at it going forward pau and LO are at the end of the road cp3 is just getting started. If you look at it from that side the deal is very wrong! How ever by the NBA letting west make the pau trade in the 1st place they have set the standard for lopsided trades..with all that being said ******* the NBA go sharks/sf giants/cowboys!!! I like college basketball any way lol!

All this would make sense if Gilbert gave a damn about the Hornets His concerns are the Lakers and how their spending effects his pockets.

dave831
12-09-2011, 07:23 AM
Hey, why do other owners have to worry about running a team. They can just rely on that good 'ole Luxury tax from teams that actually try and win.

This is the point of the Luxury tax the reason the laker have been aloud to go 30mill over the cap is because they will have to PAY the other owner for doing so....now what looks be happening is the lakers are finding a way out of paying for being OVER the cap! Read up on the NBA's Luxury tax you'll find some fun tid bits that mite help the understanding of this process!

justinnum1
12-09-2011, 07:24 AM
its all about control, owners and players

dave831
12-09-2011, 07:28 AM
its all about control, owners and players

This!
If every one that reads the NBA section of psd today reads this quote the world will be a better place!

theheatles
12-09-2011, 08:27 AM
i didn't think it was possible for a billionaire to whine so much

thekmp211
12-09-2011, 08:35 AM
what a spoiled brat. i have a lifetime of hatred built up against gilbert for things having nothing to do with basketball. the fact that he is also mucking up my favorite sport and just ******** on its public image is almost too much to bare.

this man is a fool. he shouldn't be allowed to own a for-profit sports franchise.

makes me sick.

theheatles
12-09-2011, 09:12 AM
what a spoiled brat. i have a lifetime of hatred built up against gilbert for things having nothing to do with basketball. the fact that he is also mucking up my favorite sport and just ******** on its public image is almost too much to bare.

this man is a fool. he shouldn't be allowed to own a for-profit sports franchise.

makes me sick.

seriously, gilbert needs to sell the cavs and gtfo

Angelus™
12-09-2011, 09:35 AM
Just because he wasnt able to keep his own players and improve as a team, he decided to take it out on the Lakers. Really?

tcav701
12-09-2011, 09:44 AM
Hey, why do other owners have to worry about running a team. They can just rely on that good 'ole Luxury tax from teams that actually try and win.

Would you rather a hard cap?

Its embarrasing to hear the sense of entitlement fans in large markets have. I am a fan of a large market team myself but you should be ashamed of these comments. Its disgusting that people in New York and LA think they deserve better teams because their economy has more tycoons outsourcing their jobs to India while closing plants and putting people out of work in the Mid-West.


Larger markets have access to more income and therefore can pay for better players which in turn, increases win probibility.

Fans that cant remove themselves from the argument and argue only to what benefits their team makes me sick.

I think it was a fair trade, but Gilbert has a few good points in his argument.

I also think you would have a different opinion if a CP3 trade to a different team was blocked.

tcav701
12-09-2011, 09:46 AM
what a spoiled brat. i have a lifetime of hatred built up against gilbert for things having nothing to do with basketball. the fact that he is also mucking up my favorite sport and just ******** on its public image is almost too much to bare.

this man is a fool. he shouldn't be allowed to own a for-profit sports franchise.

makes me sick.

I dont feel Gilbert should be an NBA owner but even he isnt as much of a spolied ***** as the players he and the rest of the league employs.

kntresistheheat
12-09-2011, 10:18 AM
Let's not forget that mark Cuban was voicing his opinion too. Dan Gilbert email was sent to stern after 10pm which was after stern already nix the trade. Cuban was one of the loudest voices before the trade was veto. They are both *** munchers!

thekmp211
12-09-2011, 11:29 AM
I dont feel Gilbert should be an NBA owner but even he isnt as much of a spolied ***** as the players he and the rest of the league employs.

look i was neutral/owners in terms of who i sided with in the lockout. i think both sides were to blame but i agree that the players union is not full of the most modest characters.

that said, there is a sense of entitlement when gilbert speaks that is just unbelievable. he felt entitled to lebron when he bought the cavs in 2005, he felt entitled to contending regardless of the moves he made, he felt entitled to making more money even when his product sucks and now he feels entitled to jeopardize the sovereignty of the entire league for...pride? to make a point?

a lockout negotiation is one thing (even one as lost-in-space as this one was). actively subverting the rules of the league for no good reason? is this a fantasy football league? it's abominable, the most embarrassing moment for the league under sterns watch imo. you just can't have these things happen. there is no room for it.

Arch Stanton
12-09-2011, 12:16 PM
Let's not forget that mark Cuban was voicing his opinion too. Dan Gilbert email was sent to stern after 10pm which was after stern already nix the trade. Cuban was one of the loudest voices before the trade was veto. They are both *** munchers!

Exactly!

BigCityofDreams
12-09-2011, 12:39 PM
what a spoiled brat. i have a lifetime of hatred built up against gilbert for things having nothing to do with basketball. the fact that he is also mucking up my favorite sport and just ******** on its public image is almost too much to bare.

this man is a fool. he shouldn't be allowed to own a for-profit sports franchise.

makes me sick.

Such as what if you don't mind me asking

BigCityofDreams
12-09-2011, 12:42 PM
Exactly!

So, just because it was sent after it got killed doesn't mean he wasn't b****ing along with Cuban.

Arch Stanton
12-09-2011, 12:44 PM
So just because it was sent after it got killed doesn't mean he wasn't b****ing along with Cuban.

So what? He and 20 other owners. Do you really believe Gilbert is responsible for nixing the trade? If so he's got more powers than god.

BigCityofDreams
12-09-2011, 01:08 PM
So what? He and 20 other owners. Do you really believe Gilbert is responsible for nixing the trade? If so he's got more powers than god.

He may not have the most power but he has one of the loudest voices.

Arch Stanton
12-09-2011, 01:14 PM
He may not have the most power but he has one of the loudest voices.

So you're saying he's THAT influencial. Which means he's a pretty dynamic owner who has more powers than other owners. I'm glad he's the owner of my team then. The last thing I'd want is a complacent owner.

thekmp211
12-09-2011, 01:24 PM
Such as what if you don't mind me asking

i was over-embellishing, but his career as quicken loans ceo has been scummy enough for one lifetime.

thekmp211
12-09-2011, 01:28 PM
So you're saying he's THAT influencial. Which means he's a pretty dynamic owner who has more powers than other owners. I'm glad he's the owner of my team then. The last thing I'd want is a complacent owner.


really? do you really think he's a good owner?

Arch Stanton
12-09-2011, 01:32 PM
really? do you really think he's a good owner?

Oh yeah... he's passionate and maybe rubs other fans and owners the wrong way. But he truly wants to win. From the Cleveland Clinic practice courts, to the changing of the seats for no reason, to developing his Fathead company... he's also building a casino that will attach to the arena.
I'd rather have Gilbert over our lazy/dispassionate Dolans who own the Indians. Or Randy Lerner (the owner of the Browns) who has more interest in his European Soccer team and his franchise has stunk for 12 years... as they continue to look for a QB.

thekmp211
12-09-2011, 01:37 PM
Oh yeah... he's passionate and maybe rubs other fans and owners the wrong way. But he truly wants to win. From the Cleveland Clinic practice courts, to the changing of the seats for no reason, to developing his Fathead company... he's also building a casino that will attach to the arena.
I'd rather have Gilbert over our lazy/dispassionate Dolans who own the Indians. Or Randy Lerner (the owner of the Browns) who has more interest in his European Soccer team and his franchise has stunk for 12 years... as they continue to look for a QB.

none of those things have to do with winning.

he's definitely "passionate". i'm not sure it's for winning. i think #winning for him is a nice, fat bottom line at the end of the year.

Arch Stanton
12-09-2011, 01:48 PM
none of those things have to do with winning.

he's definitely "passionate". i'm not sure it's for winning. i think #winning for him is a nice, fat bottom line at the end of the year.

He takes pride in what he does. In fact the Cleveland Clinic practice facility is one of the nicest practice courts in the NBA. He wants his team to have the best of whats available. And of course he wants to make money just like your owner there in NY.

thekmp211
12-09-2011, 01:58 PM
He takes pride in what he does. In fact the Cleveland Clinic practice facility is one of the nicest practice courts in the NBA. He wants his team to have the best of whats available. And of course he wants to make money just like your owner there in NY.

i'm a celtics fan (don't blame you for your assumption). but, in truth, i'm a fan of basketball before any one team. of course any owner wants to turn a profit from their investments. but you can agree that there is a spectrum starting roughly with mark cuban and ending with donald sterling. i have no question that the celtics ownership takes pride in the quality of its on-court product.

now you don't have to act like a lunatic courtside like cuban to prove you love your team, but everything gilbert has done as a owner screams of a calculating, non-basketball mind. he made a ton of terrible investments, ate ****, and then whined so much that he essentially insisted on being compensated by miami for the sake of fairness. his conduct during the lockout only reaffirmed my opinions.

glad you like him, but tbh i think he rounds out the top 3 worst owners with the donald and evil-mj.

Arch Stanton
12-09-2011, 02:33 PM
i'm a celtics fan (don't blame you for your assumption). but, in truth, i'm a fan of basketball before any one team. of course any owner wants to turn a profit from their investments. but you can agree that there is a spectrum starting roughly with mark cuban and ending with donald sterling. i have no question that the celtics ownership takes pride in the quality of its on-court product.

now you don't have to act like a lunatic courtside like cuban to prove you love your team, but everything gilbert has done as a owner screams of a calculating, non-basketball mind. he made a ton of terrible investments, ate ****, and then whined so much that he essentially insisted on being compensated by miami for the sake of fairness. his conduct during the lockout only reaffirmed my opinions.

glad you like him, but tbh i think he rounds out the top 3 worst owners with the donald and evil-mj.

Bad investments? You mean trying to cater to his superstar? That was a bad decision. But he was doing everything he thought he could to win. And, although he is the owner and is very involved with decision-making he has a GM that makes decisions too.
He operates in a difficult economy and an undesirable locations for these crybaby superstars.
His conduct over the lockout? I think in the end he wasn't considered one of the hardliners that ESPN made him out to be. So you prefer the hardliners?
Top 3 worst! Ouch! Gotta disagree with you there.

thekmp211
12-09-2011, 02:42 PM
Bad investments? You mean trying to cater to his superstar? That was a bad decision. But he was doing everything he thought he could to win. And, although he is the owner and is very involved with decision-making he has a GM that makes decisions too.
He operates in a difficult economy and an undesirable locations for these crybaby superstars.
His conduct over the lockout? I think in the end he wasn't considered one of the hardliners that ESPN made him out to be. So you prefer the hardliners?
Top 3 worst! Ouch! Gotta disagree with you there.

this this this x 1000. of course he spent money. there's no point revisiting this move-by-move, but lets just say there were much better investments available. they had their shot. all the way up to the very last trade deadline of james' cavs career.

again, at some point owners in all markets need to be accountable for bad decision making. the hornets had their shot. sunk a lot of money into bad players. the knicks and bulls suffered from the same problem for a decade or so.

Arch Stanton
12-09-2011, 02:50 PM
this this this x 1000. of course he spent money. there's no point revisiting this move-by-move, but lets just say there were much better investments available. they had their shot. all the way up to the very last trade deadline of james' cavs career.

again, at some point owners in all markets need to be accountable for bad decision making. the hornets had their shot. sunk a lot of money into bad players. the knicks and bulls suffered from the same problem for a decade or so.

They had their shot and got pretty close. They were contenders for several years. And even made it to the finals (with the help of Booby Gibson BTW). Give Gilbert a break. If he makes the same mistakes again then maybe I could fault him for making bad decisions. But he hasn't as of yet. Do you really believe they sign guys thinking they're going to suck? The bad decision he made were catering to his superstar and assuming LeBron would resign. They should of traded him and I think he would now. Just like Denver, Utah, and now the Magic, and NO.

He also flipped Mo Williams for Baron Davis and Kyrie Irving.

Anilyzer
12-09-2011, 06:18 PM
Ok leave the quote out of it what he was trying to say is the team that is receiving the best player in the deal has never in the history of sport also been the team to gets a huge relief in cape space! 2 for 1.....the one is 26 the 2 are over 31 who do u think in your heart of hearts will have a more productive next 6 years in the NBA a guy who is "soft" per lakeshow fans from age 31-37 OR a guy who gets paid millions of $$ and can't keep eating habits in check from the age of 32-38 yes we are talking about MR. Candy Man him self still playing at age 38 Or Chris Paul at 26-32 years of age.... Look at it going forward pau and LO are at the end of the road cp3 is just getting started. If you look at it from that side the deal is very wrong! How ever by the NBA letting west make the pau trade in the 1st place they have set the standard for lopsided trades..with all that being said ******* the NBA go sharks/sf giants/cowboys!!! I like college basketball any way lol!

Uhhhh, "leave the quote out of it"... what are you freakin' kidding me? We don't have to debate about what we think Gilbert meant. The letter is explicitly clear in what it says and we can just look at it.

How about we look at the quote AGAIN, because believe me, "The Letter" just gets better and better and better every time you read it, like watching Fuzzy Zeller's fried chicken comment at the Masters or watching Fidel Castro eat it off the stairway after his defiant speech.


"Over the next three seasons this deal would save the Lakers approximately $20 million in salaries and approximately $21 million in luxury taxes. That $21 million goes to non-taxpaying teams and to fund revenue sharing."

It was a perfectly valid trade, with the Lakers sending 2 stars for 1 in order to get Paul, hence, the salary discrepancy. For instance, if the Hornets traded CP3 straight up for Gasol (which no one can really argue with, he is 1st team All NBA) then there is no salary discrepancy. Hornets want more, Lakers give them more, Gilbert is an idiot.

Debating which players you think will be more productive is completely irrelevant. Those two players have 4 NBA championship rings between them.

but just Lo freaking L at what Gilbert is saying about luxury taxes after this idiotic and now clearly pointless lockout.

Does anybody remember that we lost 2 months of the season and almost the whole season over this, because of owners like Gilbert? And now he is saying this... in a foolish letter to the league and the media?

astonishing

Lake_Show2416
12-09-2011, 06:22 PM
at least this time he look off the Caps Lock like a big boy

WITZ
12-09-2011, 06:46 PM
How i am not surprised this thread was made by a laker fan?


Lol at lakers sending 2 stars i hope u aren't taking about Odom because that's laughable.

THE MTL
12-09-2011, 06:47 PM
The simple fact that after the long lockout and all of the calls for a hard salary cap and all of the complaining about the unfairness of big market teams being able to go over the cap, that Gilbert insists the CP3 deal must be cancelled because it will bring the Laker salary cap number DOWN and cause them to pay LESS luxury tax, is beyond absurd.

Gilbert literally says that if the Lakers pay less luxury tax it is equivalent to taking money AWAY from small market teams; the deal will lower the Lakers salary cap number, because of smart management and a willingness to send full value for CP3 in a risky move... therefore Gilbert says it is bad, because that luxury tax is revenue the small market teams deserve.

Are.You.Kidding.Me

The whole lockout was about the small market owners being unhappy with teams being over the cap (even though the Cavs had the highest payroll in the league a year ago), but now Gilbert insists that the NBA should block a valid trade on the grounds that it will LOWER the Lakers salary number, and thus cause them to pay less luxury taxes???

Somebody who agrees with Gilbert (and Gilbert's Gripe) please explain this to me. Like, NOW

Hornets take on more salary in this deal. And you know who pays this salary. Gilbert and all the other NBA owners. He is part owner of that team and can do whatever he wants.

Anilyzer
12-09-2011, 06:49 PM
Would you rather a hard cap?

Its embarrasing to hear the sense of entitlement fans in large markets have. I am a fan of a large market team myself but you should be ashamed of these comments. Its disgusting that people in New York and LA think they deserve better teams because their economy has more tycoons outsourcing their jobs to India while closing plants and putting people out of work in the Mid-West.


Larger markets have access to more income and therefore can pay for better players which in turn, increases win probibility.



Occupy NBA...?

Is Gilbert some kind of revolutionary now? Season before last this moron had the largest payroll in the league, last year Cavs had the worst record in the league, and he is making billions building a mega casino next to the Cavs stadium which will suck dollar$$ from Cleveland

Anilyzer
12-09-2011, 06:55 PM
Hornets take on more salary in this deal. And you know who pays this salary. Gilbert and all the other NBA owners. He is part owner of that team and can do whatever he wants.

HELLO

Hornets wouldn't take Gasol for CP3 straight up -- they wanted more players and that EQUALS MORE SALARY. How can anyone not understand this?

In addition, the Hornets would have to re-sign CP3 if they wanted to keep him... which would cost MORE.

Following so far?

Additionally, under the new CBA, the Hornets have to spend at least 85% of the salary cap. They are under the cap, and if they shed more salary, they will have to sign other, random players to meet the minimum salary.

Also, Gilbert in his letter is clearly just lamenting the loss of luxury tax "revenues" from the Lakers -- this after conducting an almost season ending lockout while whining about teams being over the cap.

Anilyzer
12-09-2011, 07:05 PM
So you're saying he's THAT influencial. Which means he's a pretty dynamic owner who has more powers than other owners. I'm glad he's the owner of my team then. The last thing I'd want is a complacent owner.

Fact: Gilbert has made an absolute fool of himself with "The Letter". No one on this thread has even begun to try to explain Gilbert claiming that the Lakers getting closer to the salary cap and paying less luxury tax is unfair. Especially after the lockout. And don't forget, when the Lakers extend CP3, the luxury tax number goes back up.

So it is stupid, stupid, stupid. And it's embarassing for the entire league that he is foolish enough to send such a drunken letter to the media.

Additionally, it is crystal clear to EVERYBODY now why Lebron left... even though Ohio was his home for his entire life, and he wanted more than anything to stay in Ohio, but because of Dan Gilbert, Lebron left.

Gilbert is the ONLY reason Lebron left Ohio and Cleveland... without Gilbert, the CAVS would probably have Wade and Lebron, not Miami.

Gilbert will still probably do jail time for fraud and shenanigans due to "Quicken Loans" during the mortgage crisis

BigCityofDreams
12-09-2011, 07:10 PM
HELLO

Hornets wouldn't take Gasol for CP3 straight up -- they wanted more players and that EQUALS MORE SALARY. How can anyone not understand this?

In addition, the Hornets would have to re-sign CP3 if they wanted to keep him... which would cost MORE.

Following so far?

Additionally, under the new CBA, the Hornets have to spend at least 85% of the salary cap. They are under the cap, and if they shed more salary, they will have to sign other, random players to meet the minimum salary.

Also, Gilbert in his letter is clearly just lamenting the loss of luxury tax "revenues" from the Lakers -- this after conducting an almost season ending lockout while whining about teams being over the cap.

You would be surprised how many ppl don't get it.

Arch Stanton
12-09-2011, 07:22 PM
Fact: Gilbert has made an absolute fool of himself with "The Letter". No one on this thread has even begun to try to explain Gilbert claiming that the Lakers getting closer to the salary cap and paying less luxury tax is unfair. Especially after the lockout. And don't forget, when the Lakers extend CP3, the luxury tax number goes back up.

So it is stupid, stupid, stupid. And it's embarassing for the entire league that he is foolish enough to send such a drunken letter to the media.

Additionally, it is crystal clear to EVERYBODY now why Lebron left... even though Ohio was his home for his entire life, and he wanted more than anything to stay in Ohio, but because of Dan Gilbert, Lebron left.

Gilbert is the ONLY reason Lebron left Ohio and Cleveland... without Gilbert, the CAVS would probably have Wade and Lebron, not Miami.

Gilbert will still probably do jail time for fraud and shenanigans due to "Quicken Loans" during the mortgage crisis

Gilbert has the right to chime in on this deal because the NBA owns the team. And the decision was made before Stern received Gilberts email. So it wasn't just Gilbert but 20 or so other owners upset about it. If NO wasn't owned by 29 NBA owners then yes I would agree that Gilbert sending a letter would be in poor taste.

LeBron left Cleveland because he wanted to play with Dwayne Wade. It wouldn't matter if Mickey Arison was the owner of the Cavs and Dan Gilbert the owner of the Heat. Maybe the Cavs could've landed Wade and Bosh but they didn't clear there roster in preparation like the Heat did. They tried to go for it and failed.

I have no comment on the Quicken Loans and fraud but haven't heard anything regarding that. That seems like a stretch.

Anilyzer
12-09-2011, 07:29 PM
Gilbert has the right to chime in on this deal because the NBA owns the team. And the decision was made before Stern received Gilberts email. So it wasn't just Gilbert but 20 or so other owners upset about it. If NO wasn't owned by 29 NBA owners then yes I would agree that Gilbert sending a letter would be in poor taste.

LeBron left Cleveland because he wanted to play with Dwayne Wade. It wouldn't matter if Mickey Arison was the owner of the Cavs and Dan Gilbert the owner of the Heat. Maybe the Cavs could've landed Wade and Bosh but they didn't clear there roster in preparation like the Heat did. They tried to go for it and failed.

I have no comment on the Quicken Loans and fraud but haven't heard anything regarding that. That seems like a stretch.

You're wrong, but keep telling yourself that, dear Hamlet. Lebron left because Gilbert is a bitter jerk of an owner. That should be obvious to everyone now. Lebron never wanted to leave Cleveland, or Ohio, and his sorrow at "the decision" was real. Gilbert's rage afterward should've told you everything... But Cleveland fans turned their backs in anger on Ohio's favorite son and banded together with... Gilbert. Who's giving you a big, shiny, new casino with ripoff slots ready to blow your savings funds. And he probably profited more from the mortgage crisis and the forclosures than anyone else in the state.

Anilyzer
12-09-2011, 07:31 PM
You would be surprised how many ppl don't get it.

Yes you are right.

/thread

Arch Stanton
12-09-2011, 07:40 PM
You're wrong, but keep telling yourself that, dear Hamlet. Lebron left because Gilbert is a bitter jerk of an owner. That should be obvious to everyone now. Lebron never wanted to leave Cleveland, or Ohio, and his sorrow at "the decision" was real. Gilbert's rage afterward should've told you everything... But Cleveland fans turned their backs in anger on Ohio's favorite son and banded together with... Gilbert. Who's giving you a big, shiny, new casino with ripoff slots ready to blow your savings funds. And he probably profited more from the mortgage crisis and the forclosures than anyone else in the state.

I'm pretty sure they were friends. They used to hang out. I don't like how Gilbert coddled him and catered to try and keep him. Hopefully, he learned from it.
LeBron left because he didn't think he could win in Cleveland. And that's his right. Maybe if LeBron didn't go on national tv and just let Gilbert know prior to then you wouldn't had seen an angry bitter Gilbert. That being said I've known people who have worked for him and they've said positive things about Gilbert. Not so much with LeBron. But when you're anointed King as a freshman in high school it might go a bit to his head. But I don't think LeBron is a bad guy just a bit immature.
And I don't really care if Paul goes to LA.

Arch Stanton
12-09-2011, 07:49 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/34022/name-the-crimes-of-david-stern

Name the crimes of David Stern

The night of The Decision, I was blown away at the vitriol surrounding LeBron James. He didn't play where you wanted him to play. He had a TV show. Bummer. It still amazes me how fired up that makes people. I wrote a post asking people to name the crimes of LeBron James.

I feel the same way today. When I first heard about this Chris Paul thing, my first thought was "oh please, this is a freaking speed bump compared to canceling almost a quarter of the season, which he just did. Or the Donaghy thing. Or so much more. This is nothing to David Stern."

But again, the amazing mountain of vitriol. I'm having a hard time finding anybody who thinks he might have just vetoed the trade because he didn't think it was a good deal.

What we have here is a situation where lots of people can imagine he did something creepy, for reasons I still don't understand. (I've seen accusations that he did this both to help and to hurt the Lakers. I'm confused.) The idea, though, is that he was not acting strictly as the owner of the Hornets when he vetoed that trade. He was acting, say his accusers, with some other goals.

Maybe David Stern is a more corrupt version of Darth Vader.

What's troublesome is the gaping chasm where there should be evidence. I believe you have to do your homework before you make accusations. If you're going to call somebody a fraud, you owe them the hard work of first ruling out the possibility they might be genuine.

NBA GMs will tell you a huge percentage of the deals they put together are killed by ownership for nonsensical, or even suspicious, reasons. Billionaires are like that! This deal died the way the vast majority of NBA deals die, with an owner saying "that's not good enough for me" for his own personal reasons.

What was weird this time around was that it was all so public. Without the information age, this whole story would never have existed. It would have been like most trade talks -- dead before it got to the finish line.

I don't know what happened here. But I do know that if David Stern did something sinister, nobody has presented any evidence of such. I'm not even sure anyone is looking.

theheatles
12-09-2011, 08:08 PM
this was a trade that benefitted all 3 teams and all gilbert is, in laymans terms, is a hater

Arch Stanton
12-09-2011, 08:17 PM
this was a trade that benefitted all 3 teams and all gilbert is, in laymans terms, is a hater

Isn't that the point of these Gilbert hate threads popping up. Just that! So in fact you are all haters then! U mad?

theheatles
12-09-2011, 08:43 PM
Isn't that the point of these Gilbert hate threads popping up. Just that! So in fact you are all haters then! U mad?

lol, i thought it was a fair trade, ur obviously mad that your team has a complete tool and crybaby as an owner

cleveland rocks:rolleyes:

Arch Stanton
12-09-2011, 09:11 PM
lol, i thought it was a fair trade, ur obviously mad that your team has a complete tool and crybaby as an owner

cleveland rocks:rolleyes:

He who throws dirt is losing ground!

Tony_Starks
12-09-2011, 09:14 PM
Gilberts letter was pretty pathetic, bitter, and ridiculous. For one he's criticizing the Lakers for bringing in another superstar (something he could never do btw) like its against the law for the Lakers to do that. Secondly he's basically saying they should not be allowed to make a move that long term is good for them financially. Thirdly he acts is if he is entitled to the Lakers staying capped out so they can cut his horrid team a check.

His letter was wrong on so many levels but hey the lockout told us that the small market owners are clearly in charge so I guess we shouldn't be surprised.....

Arch Stanton
12-09-2011, 09:18 PM
Gilberts letter was pretty pathetic, bitter, and ridiculous. For one he's criticizing the Lakers for bringing in another superstar (something he could never do btw) like its against the law for the Lakers to do that. Secondly he's basically saying they should not be allowed to make a move that long term is good for them financially. Thirdly he acts is if he is entitled to the Lakers staying capped out so they can cut his horrid team a check.

His letter was wrong on so many levels but hey the lockout told us that the small market owners are clearly in charge so I guess we shouldn't be surprised.....

Seeing that he's part owner of the Hornets... I think he's entitled. BTW he wasn't the only owner upset, there were about 20 others. Sorry, you couldn't get Chris Paul on Friday. Looks like you'll have to wait until Saturday. I hope you're not put off. At least you have your internet girlfriends to fantasize about!

theheatles
12-09-2011, 09:19 PM
He who throws dirt is losing ground!

he who is a cleveland fan already lost :D

Arch Stanton
12-09-2011, 09:22 PM
he who is a cleveland fan already lost :D

:facepalm:

theheatles
12-09-2011, 09:26 PM
:facepalm:

:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

:violin:

Arch Stanton
12-09-2011, 09:30 PM
I think it's time to shut down this thread.

Tony_Starks
12-09-2011, 09:33 PM
Seeing that he's part owner of the Hornets... I think he's entitled. BTW he wasn't the only owner upset, there were about 20 others. Sorry, you couldn't get Chris Paul on Friday. Looks like you'll have to wait until Saturday. I hope you're not put off. At least you have your internet girlfriends to fantasize about!



Indeed I do but thats neither here nor there friend. The other owners are not involved in the day to day operations of the Hornets. They are simply finance. The Hornets are run by David Stern. The owners have no power to make trades or veto trades for the Hornets. If that was the case they could just engineer a CP3 trade to one of their own teams. Its called a conflict of interest.

All they can do is wine and cry about it, which apparently is enough to influence dictator Stern these days. But Im not too worried, CP3 will be a Laker one way or another and as a Laker fan I wasn't exactly enamored with the deal they had on the table btw. Im just patiently waiting for the next deal to go down so I can enjoy the next small market "this isn't fair!" pity party........

theheatles
12-09-2011, 09:33 PM
I think it's time to shut down this thread.

if you can't handle the Heat, get out of the kitchen

Arch Stanton
12-09-2011, 09:40 PM
Indeed I do but thats neither here nor there friend. The other owners are not involved in the day to day operations of the Hornets. They are simply finance. The Hornets are run by David Stern. The owners have no power to make trades or veto trades for the Hornets. If that was the case they could just engineer a CP3 trade to one of their own teams. Its called a conflict of interest.

All they can do is wine and cry about it, which apparently is enough to influence dictator Stern these days. But Im not too worried, CP3 will be a Laker one way or another and as a Laker fan I wasn't exactly enamored with the deal they had on the table btw. Im just patiently waiting for the next deal to go down so I can enjoy the next small market "this isn't fair!" pity party........

Yep and Stern shut down the deal before receiving Gilbert's letter. There's no record of owners complaints influencing Sterns decision. No one has presented any evidence that what Stern did was illegal. You're just reacting to an unusual situation because the NBA owns a team. Ultimately, the NBA shouldn't own a team.
Yep I think Paul will be a Laker soon too. And I don't care.

Arch Stanton
12-09-2011, 09:44 PM
if you can't handle the Heat, get out of the kitchen

This should help you out!

http://www.amazon.com/Dictionary-Cliches-James-Rogers/dp/0345338146/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1323481365&sr=8-1

BigCityofDreams
12-09-2011, 09:55 PM
Gilberts letter was pretty pathetic, bitter, and ridiculous. For one he's criticizing the Lakers for bringing in another superstar (something he could never do btw) like its against the law for the Lakers to do that. Secondly he's basically saying they should not be allowed to make a move that long term is good for them financially. Thirdly he acts is if he is entitled to the Lakers staying capped out so they can cut his horrid team a check.

His letter was wrong on so many levels but hey the lockout told us that the small market owners are clearly in charge so I guess we shouldn't be surprised.....

To think if LeBron was still a Cav Dan Gilbert would not be as angry as he is today.

theheatles
12-09-2011, 09:56 PM
This should help you out!

http://www.amazon.com/Dictionary-Cliches-James-Rogers/dp/0345338146/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1323481365&sr=8-1

:eyebrow: i was focusing more on the double entendre but obviously a dan gilbert supporter would be too simple minded

Arch Stanton
12-09-2011, 09:58 PM
:eyebrow: i was focusing more on the double entendre but obviously a dan gilbert supporter would be too simple minded

Oh I get it... GENIUS!

Arch Stanton
12-09-2011, 09:59 PM
Dan Gilbert is not afraid to speak his mind!

BigCityofDreams
12-09-2011, 10:02 PM
That's fine but ppl are going to have a problem with it when he lets his emotions get the best of him.

Arch Stanton
12-09-2011, 10:13 PM
ScottRaab64 Scott Raab
Dear Lakers Fans: Get over it. Grow up. Stop hating. You're pathetic. Los Angeles sucks. You're all losers. (And welcome to my world.)

theheatles
12-09-2011, 10:36 PM
Dan Gilbert is not afraid to speak his mind!

it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

Arch Stanton
12-09-2011, 10:59 PM
it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

A winged pen)s was the city symbol of Pompeii, the ancient Roman resort town destroyed by Mt. Vesuvius' eruption

Anilyzer
12-09-2011, 11:02 PM
Yep and Stern shut down the deal before receiving Gilbert's letter. There's no record of owners complaints influencing Sterns decision. No one has presented any evidence that what Stern did was illegal. You're just reacting to an unusual situation because the NBA owns a team. Ultimately, the NBA shouldn't own a team.
Yep I think Paul will be a Laker soon too. And I don't care.

thanks for try to explain what's eating Gilbert Gripe. But sorry there is still no rational explanation for what was said in "The Letter"

Arch Stanton
12-09-2011, 11:07 PM
thanks for try to explain what's eating Gilbert Gripe. But sorry there is still no rational explanation for what was said in "The Letter"

Are you referring to the letter (LeBron Letter) or the email (Stern Email)?

Anilyzer
12-10-2011, 03:53 AM
Are you referring to the letter (LeBron Letter) or the email (Stern Email)?

I'm referring to the Stern Letter (email). The post Lebron/"Decision" letter was pretty impressive too, though.

Here's an excerpt from the Letter Gilbert sent after Lebron signed in Miami:


Some people think they should go to heaven but NOT have to die to get there.

Sorry, but that’s simply not how it works.

This shocking act of disloyalty from our home grown “chosen one” sends the exact opposite lesson of what we would want our children to learn. And “who” we would want them to grow-up to become.

But the good news is that this heartless and callous action can only serve as the antidote to the so-called “curse” on Cleveland, Ohio.

The self-declared former “King” will be taking the “curse” with him down south. And until he does “right” by Cleveland and Ohio, James (and the town where he plays) will unfortunately own this dreaded spell and bad karma.

Just watch.

Sleep well, Cleveland.

Tomorrow is a new and much brighter day….

And, here are excerpts from CP3 "Letter":


It would be a travesty to allow the Lakers to acquire Chris Paul in the apparent trade being discussed.

and


Over the next three seasons this deal would save the Lakers approximately $20 million in salaries and approximately $21 million in luxury taxes. That $21 million goes to non-taxpaying teams and to fund revenue sharing.

and


When will we just change the name of 25 of the 30 teams to the Washington Generals?

Yeah... that's a really interesting owner of the Cavs you got there. Did you know he made billions during the mortgage crisis? Oh wait, never mind. Ok yeah, so anyways, if the Lakers don't pay luxury tax and Paul gets traded for two All Stars then the Cavs need to immediately change their names to the Washington Generals. Yeah, ok, **** yeah, you're right.

Anilyzer
12-10-2011, 03:56 AM
...

Sactown
12-10-2011, 03:58 AM
Why should the owners of the Kings have to fork over more money to the Hornets so Chris Paul can go to LA?.. That's the main reason it was vetoed

Anilyzer
12-10-2011, 04:23 PM
Why should the owners of the Kings have to fork over more money to the Hornets so Chris Paul can go to LA?.. That's the main reason it was vetoed

see? That's what's incredible. An absurdly foolish letter like Gilbert's gets written and distributed (oh, and it was clearly BEFORE the veto, if you read the letter, despite what people are trying to say) and a number of people actually believe it... OR they actually take it further and somehow imagine that the Sacramento Kings will be out of pocket for the deal as well. Incredible.

Tony_Starks
12-10-2011, 04:29 PM
Yep and Stern shut down the deal before receiving Gilbert's letter. There's no record of owners complaints influencing Sterns decision. No one has presented any evidence that what Stern did was illegal. You're just reacting to an unusual situation because the NBA owns a team. Ultimately, the NBA shouldn't own a team.
Yep I think Paul will be a Laker soon too. And I don't care.


No evidence? Lol. Ok man, believe what you want. There's no evidence that the "competitive balance" argument was a smokescreen for greedy owners either so I guess if you're gullible enough then all is well in the nba.......

Tony_Starks
12-10-2011, 04:31 PM
see? That's what's incredible. An absurdly foolish letter like Gilbert's gets written and distributed (oh, and it was clearly BEFORE the veto, if you read the letter, despite what people are trying to say) and a number of people actually believe it... OR they actually take it further and somehow imagine that the Sacramento Kings will be out of pocket for the deal as well. Incredible.


People believe anything man. An owner can write a letter that says the Lakers had this deal in place for over a year and people will run with it and scream "unfair!"

Anilyzer
12-10-2011, 04:47 PM
People believe anything man. An owner can write a letter that says the Lakers had this deal in place for over a year and people will run with it and scream "unfair!"

well... *heh heh* in all fairness, I think this deal(s) was in the works or at least planning stages for a year or more.

when all the "hardline" owners were whining and yelling at the negotiations and doing their lockout thing, where were the Lakers?

I'll tell you. NOT in NY, and nowhere near the lockout is where. Probably working out this deal so they could spring it as soon as the deal was signed.

So, the hardline teams are like "blah blah blah blah everything's not fair! cancel the season! extend the lockout! blah blah blah!"

Then the lockout ends, because the banks can't lose $4B on the NBA going under, and then the Lakers announce CP3 trade.

Then those same owners are like "WHAT!?! Somebody was actually WORKING all this time!?! NOT FAIR! NOT FAIR! Oh and also we won't get as much luxury tax because the Lakers are balancing their budget!!! Not fair!"

Just laughable on so many levels. I need more of this. Seriously, just keep this coming.

Arch Stanton
12-11-2011, 01:47 AM
...

I really enjoy reading your your posts and feel you've got some incredible writing talent.
Forgive me with this post its from my blackberry.
You come across as a fan of good basketball. You don't seem to have an allegience to a particular team.
And maybe Dan Gibert can come across as a bit of a prick to anyone not a Cavs fan?
But myself and a lot of others love this in Cleveland. Gilbert just wants to win. In a city that can't attract FAs unless they're way overpaid. And disinterested Indians and Browns owners its nice to see an owner with a voice and guts. Whgo cares if it pisses of players now. They weren't signing here anyways.

Arch Stanton
12-11-2011, 02:03 AM
No evidence? Lol. Ok man, believe what you want. There's no evidence that the "competitive balance" argument was a smokescreen for greedy owners either so I guess if you're gullible enough then all is well in the nba.......

Well the email Stern received from Gilbert was time stamped and showed to arrive affter the deal was nixed. Forgive me with this post from blackberry. I'd encourage you to find something that suggest illegal play from Gilbert. You may hate him but what did he do illegal? No speculation! Facts!

dave831
12-11-2011, 02:53 AM
Who does the world hate more Gilbert or tebow?

Cal827
12-11-2011, 02:54 AM
Who does the world hate more Gilbert or tebow?

That's like asking if the world hates God or Satan more.

The answer is neither.... they don't exist :D

trolololol


All jokes aside, it's probably Gilbert. I mean Tebow annoys cause he sucks but still wins.. Gilbert is an ******* that would hold his league hostage. (IMO, of course as Arch stantion alluded to, I don't really know what it's like for Cleveland fans).

Arch Stanton
12-11-2011, 03:20 AM
Anilyzer what are you trying to prove with this thread? It seems like most already hate Gilbert. And if you're trying to convince Cleveland fans you're going about it the wrong way! I wish I was able to agree with you but your dislike seems off based. I really wish that Cleveland wouldn't get such a bad rap. Really not as bad as some make it out to be. And I've live all over the world. Forgive my bb.