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View Full Version : Can small market teams and fans get over losing their stars?



NYSpirit1
12-09-2011, 02:01 AM
To read Dan Gilbert's e-mail to Stern and presumably the Suns, Wolves, Raptors, Nuggets and all the other owners to control the league is ridiculous.

Newsflash: LeBron's not in Cleveland anymore. Bosh isn't in Toronto. Melo's not in Denver. Deron isn't in Utah. Garnett isn't in Minnesota. Amare's not in Phoenix.

It's time for these teams to get over it. I find it hard for these fanbases to complain when Denver made it to the Conference Finals, Cleveland to the Finals, Phoenix to the Conference Finals, Utah to the Conference Finals, Minnesota to the Conference Finals and to watch Toronto make bad basketball decision after bad basketball decision.

Toronto traded Carter when they still had Bosh. All these teams had their chances and it's not a surprise that players want to play in big cities. It's ridiculous at this point and even as a Knick fan who wants Paul, the deal to the Lakers should have went through.

The small market teams had their chances, especially the Cavs. Just because they had atrocious front offices who made bad basketball deals and signings doesn't mean they should be upset all these stars left and requested to be traded. Look at the Spurs, they made sound basketball decisions and kept Duncan, Ginobili and Parker. To the small market teams: you had your chance, let the other teams have their chance now.

waveycrockett
12-09-2011, 02:03 AM
Yes they still have their farms to keep them busy

Arch Stanton
12-09-2011, 02:22 AM
Your argument is full of holes! First if you state that ALL other owners then you'll have to include your precious Knicks.
And speaking of your Knicks and atrocious front offices I'm glad you think it's okay for the Knicks to benefit from bad decisions but small market teams like the Cavs should just accept their place in society. Seems like geographic racism...

PacersForLife
12-09-2011, 02:36 AM
You wouldn't understand being a large market fan.... How would you feel if next week Amare and Melo just asked for a trade to a certain team and demanded that they get traded to the team they requested, or they would not cooperate? We don't have the luxury of being able to bounce back anytime because guys don't want to come to our teams just because we don't have sandy beaches or huge buildings and a lot of national recognition. The guys from the 2003 draft are basically changing the way the league is, making it controlled by superstars. We might as well get rid of every other team and just put all-stars on the Lakers, Knicks, Celtics, Bulls, and Heat. What is the point of having so many teams if not all of them have an equal opportunity? I thankfully haven't had to suffer losing a star player on the team I have rooted for all my life, but I feel for the ones who have.

Sadds The Gr8
12-09-2011, 02:40 AM
http://www.ohdearism.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/troll.jpg

RevisIsland
12-09-2011, 02:41 AM
I don't feel like writing a novel so I'll do this in bullet points:

- Why should a team have an advantage over another team because of where they play?

- Why is it fair that some teams can essentially bully other teams into giving up their best players because they know they'll leave anyway?

- Why is it fair for some teams to ALWAYS be competitive (assuming at least competent management) while other teams only have 5-7 year windows than have to wait a decade or more for relevance?

- That Knicks logo in your sig sort of takes away the credibility of your argument. Yea you're fine giving up CP3, you already have Melo and Amare. I'm a Knick fan too. I don't even think we should have Melo in the first place.

PacersForLife
12-09-2011, 02:41 AM
http://www.ohdearism.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/troll.jpg

makes sense... I guess.

Lake_Show2416
12-09-2011, 02:42 AM
not if the league wont allow compensation for the players & just let them walk

PacersForLife
12-09-2011, 02:44 AM
I don't feel like writing a novel so I'll do this in bullet points:

- Why should a team have an advantage over another team because of where they play?

- Why is it fair that some teams can essentially bully other teams into giving up their best players because they know they'll leave anyway?

- Why is it fair for some teams to ALWAYS be competitive (assuming at least competent management) while other teams only have 5-7 year windows than have to wait a decade or more for relevance?

- That Knicks logo in your sig sort of takes away the credibility of your argument. Yea you're fine giving up CP3, you already have Melo and Amare. I'm a Knick fan too. I don't even think we should have Melo in the first place.

I'll reply with bullets of my own:

-Wow, you are from Miami and are a Knicks fan.

-You still agree that what is going on is not fair and that Melo should not be on your team.

-Much Respect :clap:

PleaseBeNice
12-09-2011, 02:46 AM
Even though it never really worked out afterwards, im glad c webb resigned with us. just saying. u wouldnt know being a big market team fan

Dade County
12-09-2011, 02:46 AM
http://www.ohdearism.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/troll.jpg

listen man.. I can't stop laughing

showtym24
12-09-2011, 02:47 AM
You wouldn't understand being a large market fan.... How would you feel if next week Amare and Melo just asked for a trade to a certain team and demanded that they get traded to the team they requested, or they would not cooperate? We don't have the luxury of being able to bounce back anytime because guys don't want to come to our teams just because we don't have sandy beaches or huge buildings and a lot of national recognition. The guys from the 2003 draft are basically changing the way the league is, making it controlled by superstars. We might as well get rid of every other team and just put all-stars on the Lakers, Knicks, Celtics, Bulls, and Heat. What is the point of having so many teams if not all of them have an equal opportunity? I thankfully haven't had to suffer losing a star player on the team I have rooted for all my life, but I feel for the ones who have.

One question, did you not think the paul trade was fair?

BrandonH
12-09-2011, 09:14 PM
Toronto small market? :/

cooters22
12-09-2011, 09:18 PM
You wouldn't understand being a large market fan.... How would you feel if next week Amare and Melo just asked for a trade to a certain team and demanded that they get traded to the team they requested, or they would not cooperate? We don't have the luxury of being able to bounce back anytime because guys don't want to come to our teams just because we don't have sandy beaches or huge buildings and a lot of national recognition. The guys from the 2003 draft are basically changing the way the league is, making it controlled by superstars. We might as well get rid of every other team and just put all-stars on the Lakers, Knicks, Celtics, Bulls, and Heat. What is the point of having so many teams if not all of them have an equal opportunity? I thankfully haven't had to suffer losing a star player on the team I have rooted for all my life, but I feel for the ones who have.

Excellant post! P.S. I take it you weren't too distraught in losing Dunleavy yesterday? lol

ink
12-09-2011, 09:18 PM
Toronto small market? :/

North America's fifth largest market after Mexico City, New York, Los Angeles, and Chicago.

RevisIsland
12-09-2011, 09:41 PM
I'll reply with bullets of my own:

-Wow, you are from Miami and are a Knicks fan.

-You still agree that what is going on is not fair and that Melo should not be on your team.

-Much Respect :clap:

I actually grew up in New York but live in Miami now, but thanks :)

j/m_ets
12-09-2011, 09:42 PM
He does have some what of a point, Look at the mavs years ago Small market team that with a good owner and front office became what they are now.

Mile High Champ
12-09-2011, 09:45 PM
All I can say is that the original poster is way off base.

Currently, I have many issues with the NBA and it all starts from competitive balance and the lockout. I thought one of the main goals going forward was to help restore competitive balance to the league and it has become quite clear the NBA has clearly failed to fix this issue. Sure those large market teams are laughing and having fun now but it will end up leading to disaster for the rest of the league. Soon enough the NBA will be losing huge in terms of revenue, sponsorship and fan support. All because of the concept of the super team.

If the NBA ignores the concerns of the smaller market teams, fans will eventually just stop coming to games. Why would these small market fans fork over their hard earned cash to watch their team knowing their star player will eventually bolt for a larger market? The answer is they will simply stop spending the money and will eventually lose interest in the league. Sports are all about parody. One of the biggest reasons why the NFL is successful is that great teams are always built through the draft and any team can win it all any given year. Can you say the same about the NBA? Hell no. Today, great teams are built through free agency and nothing less. I am not saying free agency is a bad thing but there must be restrictions on free agency to avoid these situations. Fans will not commit to the NBA if they know their city cannot compete for an NBA title. Fans support their team because they want them to win, not because they want to see them become doormats for the larger markets.

The league continues to fail miserably and the recently attempted CP3 trade is proof of it. The NBA was well within its right to veto that deal yet the large market teams are complaining it failed to go through. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Soon enough Howard will be on the Nets and we will have yet another "super" team. Why am I going to continue to watch this garbage if I know my team is out of contention every year? I certainly don't need the NBA to watch basketball; I have the NCAA for that if I please. The NBA is heading down a path of becoming the biggest joke of any professional sports league and it truly does sadden me to say that. I hope the NBA can do what is right and strive to become a better league for all 30 teams but I feel that is no longer possible.

NCAA here I come.

Tony_Starks
12-09-2011, 09:50 PM
I don't feel like writing a novel so I'll do this in bullet points:

- Why should a team have an advantage over another team because of where they play?

Its called geography.

- Why is it fair that some teams can essentially bully other teams into giving up their best players because they know they'll leave anyway?

It's not bullying. Those teams have had an average of at least 5 years to surround said players with talent. When they fail to do so said player will either walk for free or they can get something in return. Either way its a result of their own doing.

- Why is it fair for some teams to ALWAYS be competitive (assuming at least competent management) while other teams only have 5-7 year windows than have to wait a decade or more for relevance?

Teams are always competitive for a reason, its called having management that knows what they're doing. There aren't very many teams that have been irrelevant for a decade while they were doing excellent moves.

- That Knicks logo in your sig sort of takes away the credibility of your argument. Yea you're fine giving up CP3, you already have Melo and Amare. I'm a Knick fan too. I don't even think we should have Melo in the first place.


On this one I actually concur with you. But at the end of the day there's no loyalty on either side, the players have to do whats best for them.



............

Vampirate
12-09-2011, 09:59 PM
North America's fifth largest market after Mexico City, New York, Los Angeles, and Chicago.

You can pretty much call Toronto Canada's New York as aside from the population and the fact they are in different countries there is not alot of difference between the 2 imo.


Toronto is a sleeping giant imo, a market that hasn't been truly tapped...if the raptors were to have some real success..

Mile High Champ
12-09-2011, 10:00 PM
You can pretty much call Toronto Canada's New York as aside from the population and the fact they are in different countries there is not alot of difference between the 2 imo.


Toronto is a sleeping giant imo, a market that hasn't been truly tapped...if the raptors were to have some real success..

The Raptors have the market size no doubt. The issue is attracting players north of the border. Many hate on it when they have never even visited it. Thats the sad part for me as a fan.

Vampirate
12-09-2011, 10:02 PM
The Raptors have the market size no doubt. The issue is attracting players north of the border. Many hate on it when they have never even visited it. Thats the sad part for me as a fan.

The only reason why Toronto is considered a small market is it is from Canada, that's it.

ryang
12-09-2011, 10:05 PM
what do you want to tell players like Mello or lebron "hey you have to stay in colorado? or you have 2 stay in ohio?? sucks for small market teams but thats life.. The NBA will be just fine... Oh and the whole NFL thing is crap the steelers pats ect ect always win the super bowl while the browns bills ect ect dont

Mile High Champ
12-09-2011, 10:07 PM
what do you want to tell players like Mello or lebron "hey you have to stay in colorado? or you have 2 stay in ohio?? sucks for small market teams but thats life.. The NBA will be just fine... Oh and the whole NFL thing is crap the steelers pats ect ect always win the super bowl while the browns bills ect ect dont

The core of both the Pats & Steelers were created through the draft and not free agency. Sorry but that is an awful argument to make. Green Bay is the smallest market in the league yet they are the best team in the league. Football is successful because any team can get to & win the Super Bowl. I can't say the same about the NBA.

ryang
12-09-2011, 10:14 PM
the packers have won 1 super bowl in 15 years.. detroit won what happened now

ryang
12-09-2011, 10:15 PM
The nba draft is a joke.. thats an awful arguement

D-Will4Prez
12-09-2011, 10:18 PM
I personally believe the Jazz's future is brighter now than it ever was with Deron...the situation is a bit different with Deron, he didn't strongarm his organization into trading him like Melo/CP3, he got traded because an excellent offer came on the table, the lockout was pending, his attitude, and the possibility of him opting out (not to mention fans were starting to turn on him after the Jerry Sloan mess)...it was a mix of everything. But with Deron, we were stuck in the 2nd round of the playoffs, not getting better, not getting worse. Now we've got 4 lottery players from the past 2 drafts, 2 of them being top 3 picks, we've got a plethora of big men (something we've NEVER had before), and with AK's contract off the books, we are a lot better off financially as well. Sure a lot of Hornets fans want CP3 to stick around, but even if he did come back, they'd still just be a mediocre playoff team with no way of moving up.

ryang
12-09-2011, 10:18 PM
Free agents are free to do what they want no??? If they would rather live in miami La or new york instead of indiana memphis ect ect can you blame them??

Mile High Champ
12-09-2011, 10:19 PM
the packers have won 1 super bowl in 15 years.. detroit won what happened now

What are you talking about with these incomplete sentences. Teams like the Patriots, Steelers, Packers etc were all buil through the draft. Tom Brady, Big Ben & Aaron Rodgers were all drafted by their respective teams and that has led to the success of those teams.

Also the Packers won in 96 & 2011. Looks like they have won twice in the last 15years.

Vampirate
12-09-2011, 10:19 PM
Either the NBA has to funementally change the way they do things or they need to contract some NBA teams.

And before anyone says anything the NBA will never contract the Raptors, their win-loss rocord aside the Raptors make money, now consider that when they they have never won anything to really brag about.

ryang
12-09-2011, 10:20 PM
I personally believe the Jazz's future is brighter now than it ever was with Deron...the situation is a bit different with Deron, he didn't strongarm his organization into trading him like Melo/CP3, he got traded because an excellent offer came on the table, the lockout was pending, his attitude, and the possibility of him opting out (not to mention fans were starting to turn on him after the Jerry Sloan mess)...it was a mix of everything. But with Deron, we were stuck in the 2nd round of the playoffs, not getting better, not getting worse. Now we've got 4 lottery players from the past 2 drafts, 2 of them being top 3 picks, we've got a plethora of big men (something we've NEVER had before), and with AK's contract off the books, we are a lot better off financially as well. Sure a lot of Hornets fans want CP3 to stick around, but even if he did come back, they'd still just be a mediocre playoff team with no way of moving up.

exactly.. Mello in denver didnt equal a chip and it never would have

D-Will4Prez
12-09-2011, 10:27 PM
exactly.. Mello in denver didnt equal a chip and it never would have

Same thing with Deron in Utah, Amar'e in Phoenix, and CP3 in New Orleans. I agree there needs to be parity, some better competition, but forcing teams and players to stay in winless situations is pointless. Especially when the damage is already done in Maimi, LA, New York, etc.

UPRock
12-09-2011, 10:30 PM
I've no problem with that, the one thing I hate is when Star Players want to go to certain teams only, and the compensations are crap. If they want to go to a certain team, then wait until you're a free agent or make that team offer a good deal for you, simple.

ryang
12-09-2011, 10:35 PM
pre maddonas.. what can you really do about it though?

cbs134679
12-09-2011, 10:36 PM
The only way I see this being resolved is if you eliminate free-agency, players can only sign contracts with the team that drafted unless their traded.

Bad part is alot of star players could be hindered in bad situations without a real shot at contending which could ruin their legacies.

D-Will4Prez
12-09-2011, 10:43 PM
^ another option would be franchise tags.

ChitownBears22
12-09-2011, 11:38 PM
Personally I would like to see the NBA increase the minimum a player can get paid. 13 man rosters, 45 mill cap, 2 mill guaranteed per player. That ties up 26 million leaving 19 Million to divide up between stars and roll players. If players like Melo, Amare, Bosh, LeBron, Paul, Etc want to team up they will have to take drastic pay cuts. While this would be fine for Lebron, Kobe, Durant type players it would hurt others in the "star" category that don't get the huge endorsement deals. I don't understand why the NBA salary cap is 60 mill and the NFL's is 120. You have far less players on an NBA team.

Things need to change and the NBA needs to become a real league before everyone becomes disinterested.

OA SLAY
12-10-2011, 12:51 AM
they dont have a choice cuz theyll be losing thier team next.

jetsforever
12-10-2011, 12:57 AM
Well at the very least, they better get used to it. It will not stop happening. Some players will stick around but that really isn't the case in the NBA and hasn't been for a while.

Thats why the NBA can do whatever they want to try and stop teams from building super teams but as long as you have free agency in the NBA and a flexible cap, it really isn't going to change much. If they want to play with each other, they will. Really nothing can be done.