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spreadeagle
12-04-2011, 06:52 PM
He should take 9 mil from the Blazers I think..if they still want him he should play there considering they took him #1 and he hasnt done much for them


Because of their limited spending power and the multiple areas of their roster that need shored up, the Miami Heat might have to get a little creative in free agency.

That could be part of their plan to address the center position.

The Heat are considering making a run at restricted free agent Greg Oden, league sources said. Oden, who hasn't played in nearly two years after suffering two different knee injuries, has a key doctor's examination this week when he could be cleared to resume contact practices.

Oden has a one-year qualifying offer from the Portland Trail Blazers for $8.9 million on his plate at the moment. The most the Heat could offer is the bulk of the $5 million mid-level exception.



For these reasons, it would seem like an easy choice for Oden if he can return to the floor, which could come as early as January. By making the hefty qualifying offer, the Blazers indicated they have not given up hope even though Oden has only played 82 games since being taken with the No. 1 overall pick in 2007.

But Heat president Pat Riley is known for his powers of persuasion and last year convinced free agent after free agent to take less money to sign in Miami. Dwyane Wade, LeBron James, Chris Bosh, Udonis Haslem and Mike Miller all took less money than they were offered elsewhere.

It happened right up until March, when Mike Bibby gave up $6 million guaranteed for this season so he could sign with the Heat for a few months at a portion of the league minimum.

The Blazers maintain matching rights for Oden but sources say Riley still is interested in making the pitch.

It is apparently one of a number of options the team is considering. According to sources, they also have been in contact with free-agent centers Nene, Samuel Dalembert and Kwame Brown.

Nene is believed to be intrigued by the Heat, but with numerous teams bidding on him he's likely vastly out of the Heat's price range.

Dalembert, who maintains a home in South Florida, seems like a good fit and there is mutual interest. However, sources said the Kings are expected to make a push to re-sign Dalembert and have the ammo to make a bigger offer

http://espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/story/_/id/7314740/portland-trail-blazers-greg-oden-drawing-interest-miami-heat-sources-say

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 06:56 PM
I make no joke when I say that a healthy Greg Oden could possibly make the Heat one of the greatest defensive teams ever. Too bad he may never be healthy because that would be something to really see.

NoahH
12-04-2011, 06:57 PM
I don't know If Oden is at the point in his career where he's chasing rings Shaq-esque. I'd be very surprised to see Oden in a South Beach next year, but I guess anything could happen.

jrm2054
12-04-2011, 06:57 PM
Oden can be great if he could stay on the floor. Guess they would finally have the big 3 if he went there and stayed healthy.

RLundi
12-04-2011, 06:59 PM
Countdown to every injured, middle-of-the-road or aging veteran being linked to Miami.

dhopisthename
12-04-2011, 07:04 PM
I doubt the heat make a serious run unless it becomes clear that 1. they can't get a samuel dalembert or the like type center through free agency and 2. it becomes clear that portland won't match whatever the heat offer

Cosmic_Canon
12-04-2011, 07:06 PM
Classic low risk/high reward move(if we can get him discounted), I love it.

Geargo Wallace
12-04-2011, 07:14 PM
LeBron will be reunited with his long lost brother!

spreadeagle
12-04-2011, 07:17 PM
lebron will be reunited with his long lost brother! lol

daleja424
12-04-2011, 07:19 PM
talk is cheap...

Avenged
12-04-2011, 07:20 PM
He can be a major "steal" if he manages to stay on the court.

KnicksorBust
12-04-2011, 07:23 PM
Classic low risk/high reward move(if we can get him discounted), I love it.

They'd have to use the full MLE to get him. I don't think it's low risk at all. He could easily cost you $20 million and give you nothing.

daleja424
12-04-2011, 07:25 PM
They'd have to use the full MLE to get him. I don't think it's low risk at all. He could easily cost you $20 million and give you nothing.

20 million over 4 years for an all-star caliber center is def a low risk high reward move...

Mishmin
12-04-2011, 07:26 PM
Is Greg really so difficult to spell

YoungOne
12-04-2011, 07:27 PM
yeah because of pat riley the "big three" got together on lesser contracts... :rolleyes:

Corey
12-04-2011, 07:29 PM
Blazers 8+ million > Heat's ~5 Million.

Don't see it happening.

daleja424
12-04-2011, 07:30 PM
The 8 million is simply a QO... it remains to be seen how long term Portland is willing to pay him. Given the new luxury tax... they COULD balk at a 4 year contract...

Corey
12-04-2011, 07:31 PM
20 million over 4 years for an all-star caliber center is def a low risk high reward move...

Get out of here with that.

NYKNYGNYY
12-04-2011, 07:32 PM
LeBron will be reunited with his long lost brother!


ol wow they do look very similiar

daleja424
12-04-2011, 07:33 PM
Get out of here with that.

Really? If he was healthy in east he is probably the second or third best center...

In his most recent attempt to play basketball the guy had a PER of 23.1 with a crazy high rebounding%, block%, and TS%

blackjack_119
12-04-2011, 07:34 PM
If Greg Oden signs a 4year, $20M contract with the Heat, Portland would gladly match it.

RLundi
12-04-2011, 07:42 PM
Blazers 8+ million > Heat's ~5 Million.

Don't see it happening.

I could see it happening. In getting away from Portland, he'd leave all those 'bust' demons behind and escape the pressure/lamentation of 'man, if only we drafted Durant!' I wouldn't negate what a change of scenery could do to someone's psyche and confidence.

Plus, if I'm Portland, I let him go. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on you again. Fool me a third time AND take $8M from me, well then, I'm just an idiot. I'd wash my hands of him and wish him the luck elsewhere.

RLundi
12-04-2011, 07:50 PM
Blazers 8+ million > Heat's ~5 Million.

Don't see it happening.

I could see it happening. In getting away from Portland, he'd leave all those 'bust' demons behind and escape the pressure/lamentation of 'man, if only we drafted Durant!' I wouldn't negate what a change of scenery could do to someone's psyche and confidence.

Plus, if I'm Portland, I let him go. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on you again. Fool me a third time AND take $8M from me, well then, I'm just an idiot.

I'd wash my hands of him and wish him the luck elsewhere.

marj987
12-04-2011, 07:52 PM
Oh my..........

Wade/Chalmers/Bibby/
Miller/Wade
Bron/Battier
Bosh/Haslem
Oden/(Dalembert?)

Top Defensive team in the NBA or Glass Jaw city? :laugh:

5ass
12-04-2011, 07:55 PM
miami already have two players who cant seem to stay healthy in haslem and miller, dont see them adding oden to the list

kntresistheheat
12-04-2011, 08:00 PM
Miller is gone. Book it!

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 08:08 PM
Get out of here with that.

Huh?

A healthy Greg Oden has the potential to be the second best C in the entire NBA. He is absolutely an all star calibre C. His defensive impact is going to be undeniable if he can somehow find a way to stay on the floor.

daleja424
12-04-2011, 08:10 PM
Huh?

A healthy Greg Oden has the potential to be the second best C in the entire NBA. He is absolutely an all star calibre C. His defensive impact is going to be undeniable if he can somehow find a way to stay on the floor.

thank you...

Dude has STUD potential... even now.

The guy is still only 23...

justinnum1
12-04-2011, 08:11 PM
miami already have two players who cant seem to stay healthy in haslem and miller, dont see them adding oden to the list

Before last season, when has haslem been injury prone?

RLundi
12-04-2011, 08:13 PM
Huh?

A healthy Greg Oden has the potential to be the second best C in the entire NBA. He is absolutely an all star calibre C. His defensive impact is going to be undeniable if he can somehow find a way to stay on the floor.

:confused:

What are you basing this on??

Wes_Craven
12-04-2011, 08:16 PM
LOL at the ppl thinking Greg is an all-star caliber C, smh.

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 08:20 PM
:confused:

What are you basing this on??

Name me 3 better defensive Cs than Greg Oden. Now if you could name 3 do they have a better offensive game than Oden does? Do they rebound as well? Do they pass as well? Greg Oden has the potential to be the best defensive C in the NBA and with that brings a way better all round package than most. I have no regrets when I say I think once healthy he'll be giving Dwight serious competition for the runnings as the #1 C in the game.

daleja424
12-04-2011, 08:21 PM
:confused:

What are you basing this on??

watching the guy play... it is undeniable that he could be an all-star if he ever got healthy.

His ceiling is really high...and he is already a really good player despite limited NBA minutes.

daleja424
12-04-2011, 08:22 PM
Name me 3 better defensive Cs than Greg Oden. Now if you could name 3 do they have a better offensive game than Oden does? Do they rebound as well? Do they pass as well? Greg Oden has the potential to be the best defensive C in the NBA and with that brings a way better all round package than most. I have no regrets when I say I think once healthy he'll be giving Dwight serious competition for the runnings as the #1 C in the game.

Im with you man. If Oden ever gets healthy...he will be a force to be reckoned with... no doubt in my mind about that.

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 08:25 PM
watching the guy play... it is undeniable that he could be an all-star if he ever got healthy.

His ceiling is really high...and he is already a really good player despite limited NBA minutes.

Problem with most is that when they watch Oden play their initial thoughts are to compare him to KD and when got injured well even worst yet. The constant KD/Bust comparisons has drastically taken away from how good he was when he was on the floor. He took some time to get going but once he did he proved that he had real potential to be a true stud in the league. In some eyes however he's nothing more than a bust and that's why they never saw how valuable he was to his team.

KB-Pau-DH2012
12-04-2011, 08:26 PM
Portland's future isn't looking all that bright. If they amnesty Roy, and after trading away Rudy, the only true building pieces they have are Aldridge, G-Wall, Batum, Ray Felton and an old Camby. Oden would be better served with a fresh new start and with a team who's staff can actually do something for him. He's had bad luck with Portland's medical staff, looks like they haven't been able to help him out much in his multiple rehab processes the last couple of years.

daleja424
12-04-2011, 08:30 PM
now...as a HEAT fan... I don't know...

This is kind of scary to me. Do we really want to base our championship hopes (at leats partially) on Greg Odens health??? Seems like an unnecessary risk...

Id say they HEAT are better off just grabbing someone who is solid who can give them a nice 20 minutes in the middle...and dont mess with this Oden drama.

Leave this kinda move to a team that NEEDS to take a big chance...

KnicksorBust
12-04-2011, 08:30 PM
:confused:

What are you basing this on??


Name me 3 better defensive Cs than Greg Oden. Now if you could name 3 do they have a better offensive game than Oden does? Do they rebound as well? Do they pass as well? Greg Oden has the potential to be the best defensive C in the NBA and with that brings a way better all round package than most. I have no regrets when I say I think once healthy he'll be giving Dwight serious competition for the runnings as the #1 C in the game.

Dwight, Bogut, Chandler, Horford, Noah.

D Roses Bulls
12-04-2011, 08:32 PM
I make no joke when I say that a healthy Greg Oden could possibly make the Heat one of the greatest defensive teams ever. Too bad he may never be healthy because that would be something to really see.

based of what? they already are a really good defensive team. Are you basing this off the 50 something games Oden has played in the NBA? Let's see how much he would slow down after a 66 game season and then and 82 game season when he has Never played one full season or close to a full season in his career.

daleja424
12-04-2011, 08:34 PM
Disagree... In limited minutes... Oden has been better defensively than all of those guys (except Dwight and MAYBE Noah).

His career block% is way higher than any of those guys...

In fact, he was blocking shots at a historically good rate before his most recent injury for a guy of his age...

Id take a HEALTHY Oden over any other center in the league except Dwight...

KnicksorBust
12-04-2011, 08:35 PM
20 million over 4 years for an all-star caliber center is def a low risk high reward move...


now...as a HEAT fan... I don't know...

This is kind of scary to me. Do we really want to base our championship hopes (at leats partially) on Greg Odens health??? Seems like an unnecessary risk...

Id say they HEAT are better off just grabbing someone who is solid who can give them a nice 20 minutes in the middle...and dont mess with this Oden drama.

Leave this kinda move to a team that NEEDS to take a big chance...

You try and tell me it's a low risk move but then contradict yourself 2 pages later. :cool:

RLundi
12-04-2011, 08:35 PM
I have no regrets when I say I think once healthy he'll be giving Dwight serious competition for the runnings as the #1 C in the game

No words.

daleja424
12-04-2011, 08:35 PM
based of what? they already are a really good defensive team. Are you basing this off the 50 something games Oden has played in the NBA? Let's see how much he would slow down after a 66 game season and then and 82 game season when he has Never played one full season or close to a full season in his career.

well Oden did already have one 61 game season.

And I dont think it is at all a stretch to think that a team that was elite defensively last year would be even better with Oden in the middle as opposed to having Big Z start in the middle...

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 08:36 PM
Dwight, Bogut, Chandler, Horford, Noah.

Chandler, Noah and Horford are not better than Oden defensively, so that's out.

Birdmannn
12-04-2011, 08:37 PM
Disagree... In limited minutes... Oden has been better defensively than all of those guys (except Dwight and MAYBE Noah).

His career block% is way higher than any of those guys...

In fact, he was blocking shots at a historically good rate before his most recent injury for a guy of his age...

Id take a HEALTHY Oden over any other center in the league except Dwight...

Except thats impossible

daleja424
12-04-2011, 08:37 PM
You try and tell me it's a low risk move but then contradict yourself 2 pages later. :cool:

It is low risk...

But it is still a risk.

If Miami gets him...and then he gets injured... HEAT would be very very very thin in the middle.

From a risk/reward standpoint he is tantalizing... Im just not sure if it is worth even a small risk for the heat if there is a no risk option available to them.

D Roses Bulls
12-04-2011, 08:37 PM
No words.

x2

Corey
12-04-2011, 08:37 PM
I could see it happening. In getting away from Portland, he'd leave all those 'bust' demons behind and escape the pressure/lamentation of 'man, if only we drafted Durant!' I wouldn't negate what a change of scenery could do to someone's psyche and confidence.

Plus, if I'm Portland, I let him go. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on you again. Fool me a third time AND take $8M from me, well then, I'm just an idiot. I'd wash my hands of him and wish him the luck elsewhere.
Dont see him skipping town after they showed him good faith by offering him a QO when they had no real reason to. They've stuck by him since day one, I dont think he'll turn his back on them for less money.

D Roses Bulls
12-04-2011, 08:39 PM
well Oden did already have one 61 game season.

And I dont think it is at all a stretch to think that a team that was elite defensively last year would be even better with Oden in the middle as opposed to having Big Z start in the middle...

I honestly think Oden would slow the team down if he was starting. If he came in under a reserve role, I think he will be far more effective especially since he isn't conditioned most likely and he hasn't played in a long time.

daleja424
12-04-2011, 08:39 PM
Except thats impossible

well that is a different discussion...

we are speaking in "what ifs"

Oden certainly has the talent, size, and potential to be an elite center in the NBA...

whether he will eve be healthy enough to reach that potential is pure speculation at this point. none of us are privy to his medical information. none of us know whether he will ever be able to stay healthy.

RLundi
12-04-2011, 08:40 PM
Dwight, Bogut, Chandler, Horford, Noah.

You forgot Bynum. Hell, you can even throw Ibaka and Roy Hibbert into the mix. Crowning Oden as the second-best center in the league and a challenge to Dwight Howard is infinitely premature and a disservice to the players that actually have the health to stay on the court for more than 40% of the time.

daleja424
12-04-2011, 08:41 PM
I honestly think Oden would slow the team down if he was starting. If he came in under a reserve role, I think he will be far more effective especially since he isn't conditioned most likely and he hasn't played in a long time.

please just stop... you are just making stuff up at this point.

The HEAT had Big Z starting at center last year... a guy that makes Shaq look SPRY. The HEAT were just fine with a guy who is literally the slowest center in the NBA...and you think the HEAt would be negatively impacted by having a 23 year old athletic 7 footer starting in his place. :facepalm:

kjoke
12-04-2011, 08:43 PM
Oden was suppose to be the second coming of Bill Russell.

daleja424
12-04-2011, 08:44 PM
You forgot Bynum. Hell, you can even throw Ibaka and Roy Hibbert into the mix. Crowning Oden as the second-best center in the league and a challenge to Dwight Howard is infinitely premature and a disservice to the players that actually have the health to stay on the court for more than 40% of the time.

Is it really though?

Lets remember that Oden was selected first overall in the draft, while all the others you are discussing were mid to late first round picks...

There is a reason for that... B/c the scouts that make finding talent their job agreed that Oden was an ELITE talent...while the others were not.

Yes, Oden has been oft injured... BUT if healthy...he has massive amounts of potential (A fact that he demonstrated in his limited NBA minutes).

KnicksorBust
12-04-2011, 08:44 PM
Disagree... In limited minutes... Oden has been better defensively than all of those guys (except Dwight and MAYBE Noah).

His career block% is way higher than any of those guys...

In fact, he was blocking shots at a historically good rate before his most recent injury for a guy of his age...

Id take a HEALTHY Oden over any other center in the league except Dwight...

Why was he in limitted minutes? Because he's a foul machine. You can't use that in his favor.

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 08:45 PM
based of what? they already are a really good defensive team. Are you basing this off the 50 something games Oden has played in the NBA? Let's see how much he would slow down after a 66 game season and then and 82 game season when he has Never played one full season or close to a full season in his career.

Well given the fact that the Heat were already one of the top defensive teams last season the addition of a top 5 defensive C will certainly do that. I mean seriously did you expect your Heat to become such a great defensive team last season? No you did not. The addition of a top tier defensive C to a team that is already top tier defensively despite lacking depth at the most important position for a team's D is only going to make your defense THAT much better. Its basic common sense honestly. Oh and PS he has played more than 50 something games in the NBA and by looking at those you'd understand his worth on the defensive end of the floor.

daleja424
12-04-2011, 08:48 PM
Here is one predraft report on Oden:


Scouting Report: The best big man prospect to emerge since Tim Duncan a decade ago.

Strengths: Intimidating defensive presence – blocks tons of shots – alters even more. Great physical strength down low at both ends of the floor. Great passer – especially outlet passes. Despite his size he can get up and down the floor and is quite quick offensively on the low block. While not as strong as he defense, his offensive game is more than adequate. Great attitude – modest, smart and a good teammate.

Weaknesses: Not very experienced – only played part of a year in college, and many of those games were played with an injured shooting hand.

Projected 2007 Draft Range: #1 overall.

Consensus: Barring serious injury, Oden is bound to have a Hall of Fame NBA career. He will make an immediate impact to whatever team he goes to. After a couple of pro seasons under his belt he should be considered the top center in the league. An NBA GMs dream come true – a low maintenance superstar.

RLundi
12-04-2011, 08:48 PM
Is it really though?

Lets remember that Oden was selected first overall in the draft, while all the others you are discussing were mid to late first round picks...

There is a reason for that... B/c the scouts that make finding talent their job agreed that Oden was an ELITE talent...while the others were not.


Was there also a reason why the Clippers drafted Michael Olowokandi first?

Or the Wizards Kwame Brown?

Corey
12-04-2011, 08:49 PM
Huh?

A healthy Greg Oden has the potential to be the second best C in the entire NBA. He is absolutely an all star calibre C. His defensive impact is going to be undeniable if he can somehow find a way to stay on the floor.

Not buying it for a second. Potential? Sure. Lets see a healthy season or two before we talk about how he 'could' be something.

Defensively, sure. He's a difference maker already. Offensively? Not even close. His offensive game is completely mechanical and predictable. He has no fluidity. Outside of catching oops, he hasn't shown any semblance of a consistent offensive output. He struggles with getting into foul trouble early, and in college and high school he's benefited greatly from playing against competition that wasn't strong enough or big enough to contain him.

He has POTENTIAL to be very, very good. To expect that this season is a far-cry in my opinion.

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 08:49 PM
You forgot Bynum. Hell, you can even throw Ibaka and Roy Hibbert into the mix. Crowning Oden as the second-best center in the league and a challenge to Dwight Howard is infinitely premature and a disservice to the players that actually have the health to stay on the court for more than 40% of the time.

Why are you throwing in Ibaka? He's a PF? And Hibbert? God no he was borderline on D last season.

No one has crowned anyone anything. I base my opinion by what I have watched of Greg Oden and the impact and production he had when he was actually on the floor. To think if he can do that as a hobbled youngster just learning to play the game there is no telling what he could become if he refines his game and is able to actually be healthy once more.

RLundi
12-04-2011, 08:50 PM
Here is one predraft report on Oden:

I remember similar reports on Emeka Okafor.

lavilevi23
12-04-2011, 08:51 PM
Come to Miami Oden!!!!!!! be part of a Championship team

daleja424
12-04-2011, 08:51 PM
Why was he in limitted minutes? Because he's a foul machine. You can't use that in his favor.

most inexperienced young players (especially big men) are...

Takes some time on the court to learn how to not be foul prone...

Look at Andrew Bynum. Took him two full NBA seasons before he got his foul troubles under control.

daleja424
12-04-2011, 08:53 PM
Was there also a reason why the Clippers drafted Michael Olowokandi first?

Or the Wizards Kwame Brown?

Yes...but those players proved to be busts on the court.

Oden has played very well when healthy... there is nothing to suggest he is a bust (except the injuries)

Which is why we are saying... IF HEALTHY he is an elite talent.

beliges
12-04-2011, 08:53 PM
I make no joke when I say that a healthy Greg Oden could possibly make the Heat one of the greatest defensive teams ever. Too bad he may never be healthy because that would be something to really see.

Thats quite a statement. Oden, healthy or not is nothing but a mediocre center in this game. That much is not changing. Adding Oden to their team is not gonna have any kind of impact on the Heat.

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 08:53 PM
Was there also a reason why the Clippers drafted Michael Olowokandi first?

Or the Wizards Kwame Brown?

At no point in those players career were as half as good as Greg Oden was in his 82 games. Also did you read the report? None of those players were as highly touted. There was a reason he went ahead of a sure thing like Durant. No way in hell Kwame or Olowokandi goes ahead of KD. They didn't have the upside that a Greg Oden has.

daleja424
12-04-2011, 08:54 PM
I remember similar reports on Emeka Okafor.

I don't... Okafor wasn't even viewed as a better prospect that Howard.

Oden came out rated better than both...

RLundi
12-04-2011, 08:54 PM
Why are you throwing in Ibaka? He's a PF? And Hibbert? God no he was borderline on D last season.

No one has crowned anyone anything. I base my opinion by what I have watched of Greg Oden and the impact and production he had when he was actually on the floor. To think if he can do that as a hobbled youngster just learning to play the game there is no telling what he could become if he refines his game and is able to actually be healthy once more.

I'm just unsure as to how you came to such a solid conclusion on someone who has played a season's worth of games in 3 years.

I love how people are so quick to just dole out 'potential' to anyone under 25 years old without much of a basis to do so.

Birdmannn
12-04-2011, 08:54 PM
Funny I always think of Bynum when I think of Oden too.

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 08:56 PM
Thats quite a statement. Oden, healthy or not is nothing but a mediocre center in this game. That much is not changing. Adding Oden to their team is not gonna have any kind of impact on the Heat.

What did Kurt Thomas do to the Bulls D last season when he started? If Oden is mediocre what is Kurt Thomas?

RLundi
12-04-2011, 08:56 PM
At no point in those players career were as half as good as Greg Oden was in his 82 games. Also did you read the report? None of those players were as highly touted. There was a reason he went ahead of a sure thing like Durant. No way in hell Kwame or Olowokandi goes ahead of KD. They didn't have the upside that a Greg Oden has.

Kwame Brown wasn't highly touted??

Oh, my.

CousinsEvansDUO
12-04-2011, 08:57 PM
I think many of you are under appreciating Oden's talent. This guy has had games of 20pts-20rbds-10blcks when he's healthy. Think about that.

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 08:57 PM
I'm just unsure as to how you came to such a solid conclusion on someone who has played a season's worth of games in 3 years.

I love how people are so quick to just dole out 'potential' to anyone under 25 years old without much of a basis to do so.

So based on potential where would you rank Oden among Cs 25 and younger?

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 08:58 PM
Kwame Brown wasn't highly touted??

Oh, my.

Two words

Reading Comprehension

beliges
12-04-2011, 09:00 PM
What did Kurt Thomas do to the Bulls D last season when he started? If Oden is mediocre what is Kurt Thomas?

LOL. Kurt Thomas is a veteran whose been in the league for a long long time. Hes a smart player who understands the game. Kurt Thomas is a much better defender than Oden. Sorry but Oden is not the type of player that makes an impact on your team. Hes a big body but is slow, uncoordinated, has very poor footwork, has no offensive game, cant shoot, is not athletic and cant move his feet on defense. Sorry, but Oden, even on a great team like Miami will have no impact. Joel Anthony is a better defender than Oden.

daleja424
12-04-2011, 09:00 PM
Thats quite a statement. Oden, healthy or not is nothing but a mediocre center in this game. That much is not changing. Adding Oden to their team is not gonna have any kind of impact on the Heat.

In Oden's first 82 games in the NBA his PER is 19.5

Only one guy since 2000 has recorded a higher PER in his first two seasons... Yao Ming at 21.3

You were saying?

beliges
12-04-2011, 09:02 PM
In Oden's first 82 games in the NBA his PER is 19.5

Only one guy since 2000 has recorded a higher PER in his first two seasons... Yao Ming at 21.3

You were saying?

Hahahahahaha. That should tell you exactly what a worthless and non credible stat PER is.

daleja424
12-04-2011, 09:04 PM
Take it a step further...

Among all "active" players there have been only two guys to have a PER greater than 19.5 and a Block% greater than 5% in their first two years:

Oden and Shaq

NBA_Starter
12-04-2011, 09:04 PM
I make no joke when I say that a healthy Greg Oden could possibly make the Heat one of the greatest defensive teams ever. Too bad he may never be healthy because that would be something to really see.

I agree

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 09:04 PM
Not buying it for a second. Potential? Sure. Lets see a healthy season or two before we talk about how he 'could' be something.

Defensively, sure. He's a difference maker already. Offensively? Not even close. His offensive game is completely mechanical and predictable. He has no fluidity. Outside of catching oops, he hasn't shown any semblance of a consistent offensive output. He struggles with getting into foul trouble early, and in college and high school he's benefited greatly from playing against competition that wasn't strong enough or big enough to contain him.

He has POTENTIAL to be very, very good. To expect that this season is a far-cry in my opinion.

Actually Oden showed great ability to use both his hands around the basket. His footwork was much improved in his brief stint in 09-10 when his back to the basket game showed some serious promise. He was decent with the ball in his hands when setting up others from his position. While he still isn't refined offensively (as I've already stated earlier in this thread) his offensive game is still better than that of most who are seen as All Star Calibre Cs (namely Bogut, Chandler, Noah among others).

I at no point said I expected that this season. I've said it time and time again IF healthy given what he has shown when he was on the floor playing basketball he could rival Dwight for the place as the best C in the league. Will that be this season? HELL no. He still has a lot to work on before he gets to that level but his D is on par with Dwight's (if healthy) and he may even become a better man defender while his offense could still get better than that of Dwight's. Maybe 2 or 3 years down the road but his potential and defensive upside is undeniable.

iggypop123
12-04-2011, 09:05 PM
its official he is back to portland.

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 09:06 PM
LOL. Kurt Thomas is a veteran whose been in the league for a long long time. Hes a smart player who understands the game. Kurt Thomas is a much better defender than Oden. Sorry but Oden is not the type of player that makes an impact on your team. Hes a big body but is slow, uncoordinated, has very poor footwork, has no offensive game, cant shoot, is not athletic and cant move his feet on defense. Sorry, but Oden, even on a great team like Miami will have no impact. Joel Anthony is a better defender than Oden.

Not wasting anymore time with this none sense. I'll continue to debate with guys who are worth the effort.

beliges
12-04-2011, 09:07 PM
Take it a step further...

In the HISTORY of the NBA there have been only two guys to have a PER greater than 19.5 and a Block% greater than 5% in their first two years:

Oden and Shaq

Hahahahahahahahaha. Another piece of evidence that proves the extreme lack of credibility of those stats. I cant believe this is your rebuttal.

Corey
12-04-2011, 09:08 PM
Actually Oden showed great ability to use both his hands around the basket. His footwork was much improved in his brief stint in 09-10 when his back to the basket game showed some serious promise. He was decent with the ball in his hands when setting up others from his position. While he still isn't refined offensively (as I've already stated earlier in this thread) his offensive game is still better than that of most who are seen as All Star Calibre Cs (namely Bogut, Chandler, Noah among others).

Bogut? Bogut is MUCH more skilled offensively. I wont argue for Chandler or Noah because all they can do is catch oops :laugh:

RLundi
12-04-2011, 09:10 PM
Take it a step further...

Among all "active" players there have been only two guys to have a PER greater than 19.5 and a Block% greater than 5% in their first two years:

Oden and Shaq

You have got to be kidding me.

It is much easier for statistics to be skewed if a limited amount of games are played. Smaller sample size = more of a probability of inaccuracies.

h2r09
12-04-2011, 09:10 PM
it would obviously be a no brainer move if you can also get eddy curry for the min in case he gets injured and a wing like grant hill for the min. can someone explain to me why protland wouldn't match if we over him 20 over 4?

Crackadalic
12-04-2011, 09:11 PM
Oden healthy is a beast defensively from what I've seen in his short nba career. Sadly none of that matters if he can't get on the court and be effective

Wade>You
12-04-2011, 09:11 PM
Oden is injured again, don't know if this was mentioned. He'll be out until January. http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/33606582

Corey
12-04-2011, 09:12 PM
Hahahahahahahahaha. Another piece of evidence that proves the extreme lack of credibility of those stats. I cant believe this is your rebuttal.

I'm not going to turn this into a ***** fit, but you're right. PER can be incredibly misleading.

h2r09
12-04-2011, 09:13 PM
stop arguing semantics and opinions over who is better. it is pretty obvious that when healthy oden is in the top tier of centers when healthy.

daleja424
12-04-2011, 09:13 PM
For those of you that don't like PER.

Guys who have averaged at least Oden's stats in their first two years (9.4 points, 7.3 rebounds, 1.4 blocks, 57.7% FGs):

Oden and Shaq are the only two in the history of the NBA according to basketball reference.

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 09:14 PM
I'm not going to turn this into a ***** fit, but you're right. PER can be incredibly misleading.

WS/48, ORtg, TS%, TRB%?

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 09:15 PM
Bogut? Bogut is MUCH more skilled offensively. I wont argue for Chandler or Noah because all they can do is catch oops :laugh:

I surely wouldn't agree to that. Bogut has softer hands and is a better passer than Oden but in terms of offensive repertoire I'd give Oden the edge.

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 09:16 PM
For those of you that don't like PER.

Guys who have averaged at least Oden's stats in their first two years (9.4 points, 7.3 rebounds, 1.4 blocks, 57.7% FGs):

Oden and Shaq are the only two in the history of the NBA according to basketball reference.

But all he does is catch oops?

*takes a shot at Corey* :p

daleja424
12-04-2011, 09:19 PM
Fine people.... here are the guys you are telling me are better than Oden...and what they did in their first 80+ games...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=howardw01&y1=2005&p2=odengr01&y2=2010&p3=bynuman01&y3=2007&p4=noahjo01&y4=2008&p5=horfoal01&y5=2008&p6=bogutan01&y6=2006

You will notice that Oden is a far more efficient scorer, has a way higher rebounding rate, a way higher block rate, way higher true shooting%, etc.

By nearly all metrics, Oden was better in his first 80+ games than every other guy you all have listed...

what now?

RLundi
12-04-2011, 09:21 PM
I surely wouldn't agree to that. Bogut has softer hands and is a better passer than Oden but in terms of offensive repertoire I'd give Oden the edge.

:facepalm:

This tells me all I need to know. Thank you.

daleja424
12-04-2011, 09:23 PM
literally every advanced stat in the link I just provided says Oden was the superior player through their first season or two in the NBA...

Per- Oden 1st
TS%- Oden 1st
eFG%- Oden 1st
OReb%- Oden 1st
Dreb%- Oden 1st
TReb%- Oden 1st
Blk%- Oden 2nd
Ortg- Oden 1st
Drtg- Oden 1st
WS/48- Oden 1st

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 09:24 PM
:facepalm:

This tells me all I need to know. Thank you.

Explain to me what makes Bogut's offensive game that much better than Oden's? Please tell me you watch Oden play as his brief career progressed and not just his first couple months in the league because if you didn't then you should do some homework.

club america
12-04-2011, 09:25 PM
People got to be ****in kidding me if they think oden is good.
1. First of all hes ****en injured all the time and it seems no body notices that once you come back from 1 injury ur not the same and oden has more than one so more to my favor.
2. Offensivily he ****in sucks he has no moves what so ever the only reason he was considered so good was cause he was big like shaq so they thought he was going to dominate but hes weak gets injured all the time.
3. His defense and rebounding was pretty good before but with all those injuries he isnt going to jump nor move the same so he most likely will be an average rebouder and blocker meaning not that great defensively.
4. It also seams some people r just looking past the injuries and the fact that he hasnt even proved any thing and many say he has potential. Its funny cause alot of PSD people give bynum crap for all his injuries even when he has played more and he as shown way more the oden.

So the people saying oden could be the second best center man get out here with that.

Im not saying he's bad cause most likely hed be a good fit for the heat he just not that great of center. i could easily name 10 better C's than him howard, bynum, chandler, noah, lopez, bogut, horford,camby, magee, okafor and even cousins has more potential than him.

daleja424
12-04-2011, 09:30 PM
Center Greg Oden "strongly leaning" on re-signing with POR to a 1yr, $8.8 mill qualifying offer and would become FA in '12, sources tell Y!

That may end that...

But i will root hard for this guy... Silly how many of you are forgetting the impact this guy can have on a court.

lavilevi23
12-04-2011, 09:31 PM
Heat better get Dalembert or I'd be so ****ing disappointed

LayZbone
12-04-2011, 09:35 PM
I just hope the kid can get healthy and have a solid NBA career. So much potential, it's depressing that he can't seem to catch a break with these injuries.

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 09:37 PM
That may end that...

But i will root hard for this guy... Silly how many of you are forgetting the impact this guy can have on a court.

Really wish my 76ers could have stolen him somehow. There still hope :)

Birdmannn
12-04-2011, 09:40 PM
I just hope the kid can get healthy and have a solid NBA career. So much potential, it's depressing that he can't seem to catch a break with these injuries.

Mee to. Would be nice to see him playing healthy ball with the Heat but I don't see him leaving Portland just yet.

daleja424
12-04-2011, 09:40 PM
seems like his plan is to play for QO and prove he is healthy... and then look for a big UFA deal next summer...

Birdmannn
12-04-2011, 09:43 PM
seems like his plan is to play for QO and prove he is healthy... and then look for a big UFA deal next summer...

Ahhh I didn't think of that, but I see him trying it.

RLundi
12-04-2011, 09:43 PM
Explain to me what makes Bogut's offensive game that much better than Oden's? Please tell me you watch Oden play as his brief career progressed and not just his first couple months in the league because if you didn't then you should do some homework.

It's the combination of watching Oden play and having an IQ above 30 that convinces me Bogut's offensive game is better than Oden's.

But I fully understand if you disagree.

daleja424
12-04-2011, 09:45 PM
It's the combination of watching Oden play and having an IQ above 30 that convinces me Bogut's offensive game is better than Oden's.

But I fully understand if you disagree.

Is there an actual point you would like to make? or would you rather just continue to violate site rules by insulting people?

LayZbone
12-04-2011, 09:46 PM
seems like his plan is to play for QO and prove he is healthy... and then look for a big UFA deal next summer...

That's probably best.

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 09:47 PM
It's the combination of watching Oden play and having an IQ above 30 that convinces me Bogut's offensive game is better than Oden's.

But I fully understand if you disagree.


None of those players were as highly touted.


Kwame Brown wasn't highly touted??

Oh, my.

No comment

Corey
12-04-2011, 09:51 PM
No comment

This made me :laugh:

Aussy4GM
12-04-2011, 09:53 PM
Disagree... In limited minutes... Oden has been better defensively than all of those guys (except Dwight and MAYBE Noah).

Id take a HEALTHY Oden over any other center in the league except Dwight...

MAYBE NOAH? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah i know we are talking about NBA and not NFL but C'MON MAN! :facepalm:

I am a die-hard Ohio State fan so I love Oden. I wish he wasn't so injury prone. But that statement is just ridiculous. Dwight Howard, Joakim Noah, Tyson Chandler, Andrew Bynum, Brook Lopez, Kendrick Perkins, Kevin Love, Andrew Bogut, Marc Gasol, are all better than Oden.

However I will say he is young yet and the sky is the limit. But until then he ain't ****.

YungDaSensai
12-04-2011, 11:07 PM
Heat better get Dalembert or I'd be so ****ing disappointed

This. I can't deal with an under size center again.

NBeastA
12-04-2011, 11:10 PM
This is border line funny

naps
12-05-2011, 03:15 AM
seems like his plan is to play for QO and prove he is healthy... and then look for a big UFA deal next summer...

I would do the same. No need to commit to a team for 4 years now. He would rather risk 10 millions now because if he can play the full season he would be getting paid the MAX without a doubt. So no point of committing and getting locked for 4 years only for 10 more million now.

And so many people here are hating on Oden simply because this thread relates Oden to the Heat.

A healthy Greg Oden should be taken over any center in the league not named Dwight Howard. Quote me on this: If he can prove he can stay healthy a full season he'll be getting paid Max salary the following year.

abe_froman
12-05-2011, 03:17 AM
i read that he's going back to portland

LA_Raiders
12-05-2011, 03:20 AM
Who?

bringinwood
12-05-2011, 03:56 AM
I would do the same. No need to commit to a team for 4 years now. He would rather risk 10 millions now because if he can play the full season he would be getting paid the MAX without a doubt. So no point of committing and getting locked for 4 years only for 10 more million now.

And so many people here are hating on Oden simply because this thread relates Oden to the Heat.

A healthy Greg Oden should be taken over any center in the league not named Dwight Howard. Quote me on this: If he can prove he can stay healthy a full season he'll be getting paid Max salary the following year.

Id rather have Andrew Bynum given Oden's health...

Oden, even if stays healthy the entire season, wouldn't get a max deal if only because his track record indicates that he wouldn't be healthy throughout the length of that contract...

He would be a top 5 center... However, that, in itself, isn't saying a whole lot...

GhostfaceDrilla
12-05-2011, 04:08 AM
Come to Miami Oden!!!!!!! be part of a Championship team

I'm sorry but this Miami team is not a championship team because they do not have one with this team.

bringinwood
12-05-2011, 04:16 AM
If Oden is on the court for 50 games and is healthy during the playoffs, the Heat are going to win the NBA championship...

There aren't many teams that would be able to score enough against one of the best defensive teams last season during a playoff series... Let alone, that same team adding one of the potentially best defensive centers this game has seen in a while...

This is all contigent on his health of course...

Wade>You
12-05-2011, 04:16 AM
How did oden's name come up as a possible fa signing for the heat? He's got a QO from Portland. It seems like players or agents are using the heat as leverage to land bigger deals or sumtin.

naps
12-05-2011, 04:41 AM
Id rather have Andrew Bynum given Oden's health...

Oden, even if stays healthy the entire season, wouldn't get a max deal if only because his track record indicates that he wouldn't be healthy throughout the length of that contract...

He would be a top 5 center... However, that, in itself, isn't saying a whole lot...

Anderw Who??

One healthy season from Greg Oden will be good enough for the GMs to give him a max or near max deal. Quote my words and and prove me wrong. I know what I am talking about.

Cal827
12-05-2011, 04:49 AM
Anderw Who??

One healthy season from Greg Oden will be good enough for the GMs to give him a max or near max deal. Quote my words and and prove me wrong. I know what I am talking about.

Yet, the Owners wonder why exactly they lose money year after year :pity:

Damn, for being rich by usually making some very smart moves, it's amazing how stupid these guys are when it comes to the sport.

bringinwood
12-05-2011, 04:54 AM
Yet, the Owners wonder why exactly they lose money year after year :pity:

Damn, for being rich by usually making some very smart moves, it's amazing how stupid these guys are when it comes to the sport.

I highly doubt Greg Oden ever sees a max contract...

You have to remember that these GMs are privy to medical records...

Oden would have to prove himself for a couple of seasons on a mid level exception type contract before he would ever get a long term, high dollar commitment from an organization...

bringinwood
12-05-2011, 04:56 AM
You have to think about how many centers have netted a max deal...

So far, I can't think of one...

Obviously, D12 will get his, but outside of that, I can't think of another player aside from Bynum that has a shot...

I can say this... I have never seen a center, with the injury history of Greg Oden, be given a massive, max or near max contract extension after one season of injury free basketball...

Guys like D12, Bynum, and Shaq have all been relatively injury free over their careers...

nickdymez
12-05-2011, 12:07 PM
Disagree... In limited minutes... Oden has been better defensively than all of those guys (except Dwight and MAYBE Noah).

His career block% is way higher than any of those guys...

In fact, he was blocking shots at a historically good rate before his most recent injury for a guy of his age...

Id take a HEALTHY Oden over any other center in the league except Dwight...

You'd take a healthy Oden over a healthy Bynum?

nickdymez
12-05-2011, 12:08 PM
You have to think about how many centers have netted a max deal...

So far, I can't think of one...

Obviously, D12 will get his, but outside of that, I can't think of another player aside from Bynum that has a shot...

I can say this... I have never seen a center, with the injury history of Greg Oden, be given a massive, max or near max contract extension after one season of injury free basketball...

Guys like D12, Bynum, and Shaq have all been relatively injury free over their careers...

lol.. Really?

daleja424
12-05-2011, 12:42 PM
You'd take a healthy Oden over a healthy Bynum?

If they are both healthy... yes, I think I would.

TheRunKiller
12-05-2011, 01:35 PM
Oden & Lebron? damn that's a whole lotta ugly

beliges
12-05-2011, 04:03 PM
If they are both healthy... yes, I think I would.

A healthy Oden proved that he is mediocre at best. An unhealthy Oden proved he wouldnt even be able to compete in the league. Sorry, while this guy dominated college strictly with his size, does not have the skill to even compete in the NBA. I guess if Miami is desperate for a big man it wouldnt hurt to take a chance on him, but to say youd take a healthy Oden over any other center in the league is just silly since a healthy Oden is mediocre at best.

SteBO
12-05-2011, 04:15 PM
A healthy Oden proved that he is mediocre at best. An unhealthy Oden proved he wouldnt even be able to compete in the league. Sorry, while this guy dominated college strictly with his size, does not have the skill to even compete in the NBA. I guess if Miami is desperate for a big man it wouldnt hurt to take a chance on him, but to say youd take a healthy Oden over any other center in the league is just silly since a healthy Oden is mediocre at best.
Meh, I'm not sure about that. "Mediocre" is pretty harsh to describe Oden at his fullest. I'd say average to above average honestly, but I would take a healthy Bynum over Oden if only for what he's proven to able to do when healthy.

beliges
12-05-2011, 04:30 PM
Meh, I'm not sure about that. "Mediocre" is pretty harsh to describe Oden at his fullest. I'd say average to above average honestly, but I would take a healthy Bynum over Oden if only for what he's proven to able to do when healthy.

Im simply basing my assessment on him during the times he was healthy. When he was healthy he was never impressive. Either way, I dont see Oden making any kind of difference on a team. Even on a team like Miami who is in desperate need for a big man, I dont see Oden having any kind of major impact on that team.

thephoenixson28
12-05-2011, 04:35 PM
LeBron will be reunited with his long lost brother!Or his father, for all we know is Greg oden could be in his 50's and his mom didn't only sleep with delonte west.

SteBO
12-05-2011, 04:59 PM
Im simply basing my assessment on him during the times he was healthy. When he was healthy he was never impressive. Either way, I dont see Oden making any kind of difference on a team. Even on a team like Miami who is in desperate need for a big man, I dont see Oden having any kind of major impact on that team.
Lol well considering that he probably will never be healthy enough to compete at the highest level, I'm with you on that one. I'm close to coming to that very same conclusion on Mike Miller to be honest with you.

Missing56&33
12-07-2011, 02:35 PM
I make no joke when I say that a healthy Greg Oden could possibly make the Heat one of the greatest defensive teams ever. Too bad he may never be healthy because that would be something to really see.

LOL.......Heat going after Greg Oden???? Thinking about signing Eddy Curry???? They may as well convince Ilgauskas to come back :laugh2:

CousinsEvansDUO
12-07-2011, 03:12 PM
I think Greg Oden could absolutely burst into tenderizing decimation. You can't blame the guy for getter injuries. It's the Trailblazers terrible trainers that can't figure out a way to get him healthy and safe. I think a new location for him with new coaches and trainers would help him stay healthy. Him in a heat uniform would be nice. I always thought he looked like a Heat player. He looks like lebron and fits in with that team.

Post No Billz
12-07-2011, 05:52 PM
Would be nice to see Lebron and his father Greg playing together.

Vinylman
12-07-2011, 06:34 PM
I think many of you are under appreciating Oden's talent. This guy has had games of 20pts-20rbds-10blcks when he's healthy. Think about that.

wtf are you talking about he had 20 rebs one time in his career and never blocked more than 6 shots in a game... people are ****ing hilarious about this guy... was he good... sure... was he ever asked to do much... nope

I hope Miami signs him with their full mle :clap:

Vinylman
12-07-2011, 06:39 PM
In Oden's first 82 games in the NBA his PER is 19.5

Only one guy since 2000 has recorded a higher PER in his first two seasons... Yao Ming at 21.3

You were saying?

no guy only played 82 games in 3 years... and then 4 .... and then....

Can he be a decent player... sure but he has to stay healthy first