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KnicksR4Real
12-04-2011, 02:13 PM
Enjoy voting!

Results so far:
1) Kevin Durant
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)

The best offensive player is the one that is a very diverse player, and can score in so many different ways. He can get his teammates involved, and when the game is on the line he is very reliable. He can get the offensive rebound, has few turnovers, and makes everyone around him better.

KnicksR4Real
12-04-2011, 02:15 PM
Sound off and vote!

Sactown
12-04-2011, 02:25 PM
IMO Kevin Martin is just as good offensively as most this list

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 02:25 PM
Sound off and vote!

In basketball what is your interpretation of the word "offense"?

mdm692
12-04-2011, 02:26 PM
IMO Kevin Martin is just as good offensively as most this list

as is nash =/

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 02:31 PM
Player PPG APG AST>2FG AST>3FG Pts+Ast %Tm Off TM ORtg
Carmelo Anthony 25.6 3.0 1.9 1.1 32.7 30.7% 112.3 /110.9
Chris Paul 15.9 9.8 7.6 2.2 32.1 33.8% 106.2
Derrick Rose 25.0 7.7 5.7 2.0 41.4 41.9% 108.3
Dirk Nowitizki 23.0 2.6 1.7 0.9 29.1 29.0% 109.7
Kevin Durant 27.7 2.7 2.1 0.6 33.7 32.1% 111.2
Kobe Bryant 25.3 4.7 3.6 1.1 35.8 35.2% 110.0
LeBron James 26.7 7.0 5.1 1.9 42.6 41.7% 111.7
Steve Nash 14.7 11.4 8.2 3.2 40.7 38.7% 109.5
A Stoudemire 25.3 2.6 1.5 1.1 31.6 29.6% 110.9
Dwyane Wade 25.5 4.6 3.2 1.4 36.1 35.3% 111.7


1. LeBron James
The Rest

Sactown
12-04-2011, 02:32 PM
as is nash =/

The thread should be "best offensive superstars"
Because even Marcus Thornton can score like most of these guys can

Avenged
12-04-2011, 02:35 PM
I say you add Amare in this poll.. again :p

He has a more offensive game to him than Dwight does.

ModernDaySavage
12-04-2011, 02:41 PM
Are we really still continuing this thread? It was pretty clear in the last one that this whole thing was pretty horribly set up. Also I see Dwight has been added to this one, is this a joke? Honestly you must be trolling or else I'm baffled.

I'm sorry but #1 should easily be LeBron, and to not have CP3 or Nash on this list with the likes of Dwight up there? I truly do not know what to say to this, I really hope it's a joke.

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 02:42 PM
The thread should be "best offensive superstars"
Because even Marcus Thornton can score like most of these guys can

Why does everyone think offense is just about scoring? :confused:

Magic is a way better offensive player than Adrian Dantley but he was not a better scorer. So what exactly makes Marcus Thornton an option for this? Because he has a license to chuck in an ineffective way.

Cal827
12-04-2011, 02:45 PM
2. Lebron
3. Melo
4. Wade
5. Rose

LakersMaster24
12-04-2011, 02:51 PM
Why does everyone think offense is just about scoring? :confused:

Magic is a way better offensive player than Adrian Dantley but he was not a better scorer. So what exactly makes Marcus Thornton an option for this? Because he has a license to chuck in an ineffective way.

:laugh:

However, if you are looking at it that way, then Nash has a real case for that. He can score, PLUS he sets up teammates better than anyone.

Tony_Starks
12-04-2011, 02:51 PM
Monta Ellis

KnicksR4Real
12-04-2011, 02:54 PM
In basketball what is your interpretation of the word "offense"?

It should be interpreted the way you think of the best offensive player. What that means varies amongst the person.

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 03:10 PM
It should be interpreted the way you think of the best offensive player. What that means varies amongst the person.

:confused:

Did you read the question? That in no way answers what I asked.

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 03:16 PM
:laugh:

However, if you are looking at it that way, then Nash has a real case for that. He can score, PLUS he sets up teammates better than anyone.

Well that's basketball logic in its most basic form. If the game was played 1 on 1 then we can compare just that one aspect of offense but it isn't. Nash still has a strong case for a top 5 offensive player in today's NBA and also a top 10 case all time.

Hawkeye15
12-04-2011, 03:17 PM
I am sorry, but I had to add CP3, and Nash.

mdm692
12-04-2011, 03:22 PM
The best offensive teams since 2004 in the nba have always been led by steve nash even today.

29$JerZ
12-04-2011, 03:23 PM
Steve Nash for me
Perfect example off an offensive threat in every sense of the word
LeBron and Paul should be next after imo

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 03:26 PM
The best offensive teams since 2004 in the nba have always been led by steve nash even today.

Not the best but they've always been amongst the best. Hell even his Mavs teams were among the best. Now that's a two way street but it isn't by chance his that he was able to run an offense so efficiently for so many years.

JEDean89
12-04-2011, 03:39 PM
i like melo because i think at the end of this season he will outscore durant.

mdm692
12-04-2011, 03:40 PM
Not the best but they've always been amongst the best. Hell even his Mavs teams were among the best. Now that's a two way street but it isn't by chance his that he was able to run an offense so efficiently for so many years.

well if im not mistaken up to last year nash was averaging 18ppg 11apg on 40-50-90 shooting before the multiple injuries started to slow him down.

Law25
12-04-2011, 04:00 PM
Again this guy....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyKgaeAoa-g

He's the only complete package in the league

Tony_Starks
12-04-2011, 04:15 PM
Again this guy....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyKgaeAoa-g

He's the only complete package in the league



That video is nothing short of a classic sir! How could anyone, even a hater, watch that and look at his stats and not agree that he was the most unstoppable player since Jordan?

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 04:17 PM
That video is nothing short of a classic sir! How could anyone, even a hater, watch that and look at his stats and not agree that he was the most unstoppable player since Jordan?

Shaq?

Dolfan305
12-04-2011, 04:21 PM
Do people not understand the difference between scoring and offense?

Tony_Starks
12-04-2011, 04:38 PM
Shaq?


I never saw Shaq singlehandedly outscore an entire team. Shaq doesn't hold the second highest scoring game ever next to Wilt. Shaq never averaged over 40 for a month......etc

jewno
12-04-2011, 04:44 PM
I never saw Shaq singlehandedly outscore an entire team. Shaq doesn't hold the second highest scoring game ever next to Wilt. Shaq never averaged over 40 for a month......etc

lol he did that in a team full of scrubs.

naps
12-04-2011, 04:58 PM
******** thread with ******** poll results. I guarantee 90% people here don't understand the difference between scoring and offense. No way in the world Durant and Melo sniff top 5 if it was about offense. I hope a mod close this embarrassment or at least correct it to best scorer in the nba instead of best offensive player.

Testaverde16
12-04-2011, 05:11 PM
dirk.... unguardable

Baller1
12-04-2011, 05:20 PM
Lebron James.

Tony_Starks
12-04-2011, 05:28 PM
^For 3 quarters I would agree with you.....

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 06:53 PM
I never saw Shaq singlehandedly outscore an entire team. Shaq doesn't hold the second highest scoring game ever next to Wilt. Shaq never averaged over 40 for a month......etc

So what that makes him dominant? That makes him a player who took a bunch of shots and converted. Its not like he was winning while he was doing that. Taking a bunch of shots doesn't make you unstoppable, if that were the case then damn near every great scorer would be labelled as unstoppable.

NoahH
12-04-2011, 07:10 PM
Monta Ellis?

Ovratd1up
12-04-2011, 07:16 PM
There's no way Lebron isn't #1 on this. That's pretty ridiculous.

It becomes really tough afterwards. If Paul is in pre-surgery or last year's postseason form, he goes next. If not, it's probably Wade and Durant, tied. Rose and Nash probably follow, Paul in that mix if we're going off of last season, followed by Deron Williams, Kobe, and Dirk. Melo and Dwight come afterwards, I'd say.

Incredibly rough list, would probably change with 20 games of observation this season.

Dolfan305
12-04-2011, 07:44 PM
Lebron has 7 consecutive seasons, and counting of 2,000+ points. 8th longest streak of all time and longest active streak by far. I believe he is tied with Oscar Robertson for most consecutive seasons of 2,000+ points and 500+ assists. He has the 3rd highest points per game average in NBA history, 5th highest points per game in the playoffs. I can go on and on. It's crazy how people can say Melo is better than him on offense

Hawkeye15
12-04-2011, 07:58 PM
******** thread with ******** poll results. I guarantee 90% people here don't understand the difference between scoring and offense. No way in the world Durant and Melo sniff top 5 if it was about offense. I hope a mod close this embarrassment or at least correct it to best scorer in the nba instead of best offensive player.

well, its creating discussion, even if the entire premise is b.s. Anyone who doesn't create for teammates at an elite level doesn't belong here. That means, Melo, Durant, Dirk, all of them. LeBron, Paul, Nash, are clearly the top 3 offensive players, but whatever.

basketfan4life
12-04-2011, 08:03 PM
Player PPG APG AST>2FG AST>3FG Pts+Ast %Tm Off TM ORtg
Carmelo Anthony 25.6 3.0 1.9 1.1 32.7 30.7% 112.3 /110.9
Chris Paul 15.9 9.8 7.6 2.2 32.1 33.8% 106.2
Derrick Rose 25.0 7.7 5.7 2.0 41.4 41.9% 108.3
Dirk Nowitizki 23.0 2.6 1.7 0.9 29.1 29.0% 109.7
Kevin Durant 27.7 2.7 2.1 0.6 33.7 32.1% 111.2
Kobe Bryant 25.3 4.7 3.6 1.1 35.8 35.2% 110.0
LeBron James 26.7 7.0 5.1 1.9 42.6 41.7% 111.7
Steve Nash 14.7 11.4 8.2 3.2 40.7 38.7% 109.5
A Stoudemire 25.3 2.6 1.5 1.1 31.6 29.6% 110.9
Dwyane Wade 25.5 4.6 3.2 1.4 36.1 35.3% 111.7


1. LeBron James
The Rest

so this tell you all, you don't even need to watch games...Laughable.

basketfan4life
12-04-2011, 08:10 PM
well, its creating discussion, even if the entire premise is b.s. Anyone who doesn't create for teammates at an elite level doesn't belong here. That means, Melo, Durant, Dirk, all of them. LeBron, Paul, Nash, are clearly the top 3 offensive players, but whatever.

what about presence of a certain player(and off the ball movement) creating for others as much as passing the ball to someone to shoot and,this is what making teammates better is to me..Dirk,Kobe,prime TD,prime Shaq, KD all fall in this category. You can find this via no stat sheet, but this happens to create best offensive teams somehow, per or ws doesn't show it, but whatever.

Tony_Starks
12-04-2011, 08:10 PM
So what that makes him dominant? That makes him a player who took a bunch of shots and converted. Its not like he was winning while he was doing that. Taking a bunch of shots doesn't make you unstoppable, if that were the case then damn near every great scorer would be labelled as unstoppable.


Hate to break it to you but "taking a bunch of shots and converting them" is not exactly the easiest thing in the world to do, especially when the whole team is trying to stop you. If it was everyone would be in the history books. Also he took a scrub Laker team to the playoffs twice during those years and pushed the team with the best record in the league to 7 games.

And for what its worth you may want to look at the Lakers winning percentage when he is 40 +, in your into that sorta thing........

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 08:11 PM
so this tell you all, you don't even need to watch games...Laughable.

Yeah because I back my opinion with solid facts that you can't dispute you say I don't watch games. Is that your only argument? If that is then GTFO.

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 08:15 PM
Hate to break it to you but "taking a bunch of shots and converting them" is not exactly the easiest thing in the world to do, especially when the whole team is trying to stop you. If it was everyone would be in the history books. Also he took a scrub Laker team to the playoffs twice during those years and pushed the team with the best record in the league to 7 games.

And for what its worth you may want to look at the Lakers winning percentage when he is 40 +, in your into that sorta thing........

Dude if you're going to through out a bunch of accomplishments #s which have no real substance to them to make a case for Kobe then I can do the same in making a case for Allen Iverson or Tracy McGrady or Dwyane Wade or LeBron James or Shaquille O'Neal.

You can't just take the smallest of sample sizes and act as if your opinion if good as gold because it is not. Why not be holistic? Kobe scored 81. Fine. Was it an amazing feat? YES. Does that make him more unstoppable than Shaq? No way.

basketfan4life
12-04-2011, 08:29 PM
Yeah because I back my opinion with solid facts that you can't dispute you say I don't watch games. Is that your only argument? If that is then GTFO.

read my other post,"the one belove you quoted" and we can talk again, also i didn't say you don't watch games,there is a differnce...and i don't appreciate you swearing.

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 08:51 PM
read my other post,"the one belove you quoted" and we can talk again, also i didn't say you don't watch games,there is a differnce...and i don't appreciate you swearing.

What about it? Can you prove that one player's presence is greater than anothers? What makes you right and someone else wrong for that? None of what you're trying to claim is making sense.

KnicksR4Real
12-04-2011, 08:52 PM
******** thread with ******** poll results. I guarantee 90% people here don't understand the difference between scoring and offense. No way in the world Durant and Melo sniff top 5 if it was about offense. I hope a mod close this embarrassment or at least correct it to best scorer in the nba instead of best offensive player.

troll

Dolfan305
12-04-2011, 08:52 PM
what about presence of a certain player(and off the ball movement) creating for others as much as passing the ball to someone to shoot and,this is what making teammates better is to me..Dirk,Kobe,prime TD,prime Shaq, KD all fall in this category. You can find this via no stat sheet, but this happens to create best offensive teams somehow, per or ws doesn't show it, but whatever.

That just further proves Lebron is the best. He scores at an elite level, distributes, and has a presences that can create for others. ( double teams, and packing the paint so he can't drive, which leaves players open.)

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 09:12 PM
troll

Yeah great walk around calling others trolls when you're the one who's afraid to even attempt to back his own opinion right? :pity:

sixer04fan
12-04-2011, 09:25 PM
Really, Dwight Howard is on this list? That is laughable.

ManRam
12-04-2011, 09:26 PM
How do people define "best offensive player"? I'm just curious, because I feel like most really only are thinking like "best scorer".

Evolution23
12-04-2011, 09:28 PM
LOl Lebron James :facepalm:

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 09:33 PM
Had LeBron James gone to the Knicks when he was a FA I could solidly put my head on a block that Knicks fans like Knicks4Real, Evolution etc would be singing his praises and saying that offense is about more than just offensive repertoire. I guess that's just the way the cookie crumbles. Still plenty great Knicks posters out there who do their best to make up for those that blind beyond the point of return.

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 09:33 PM
How do people define "best offensive player"? I'm just curious, because I feel like most really only are thinking like "best scorer".

Ask the OP he has a great explanation of this.

Birdmannn
12-04-2011, 09:36 PM
I guess I will choose Nash but I believe both him and Lebron are better than Durant.

Sadds The Gr8
12-04-2011, 09:57 PM
******** thread with ******** poll results. I guarantee 90% people here don't understand the difference between scoring and offense. No way in the world Durant and Melo sniff top 5 if it was about offense. I hope a mod close this embarrassment or at least correct it to best scorer in the nba instead of best offensive player.

first and probably last time i'll ever agree with this guy.

KnicksR4Real
12-04-2011, 10:17 PM
Yeah great walk around calling others trolls when you're the one who's afraid to even attempt to back his own opinion right? :pity:

I don't have an opinion, I'm asking for everyone else's. When did I even state an opinion?:facepalm:

KnicksR4Real
12-04-2011, 10:20 PM
Had LeBron James gone to the Knicks when he was a FA I could solidly put my head on a block that Knicks fans like Knicks4Real, Evolution etc would be singing his praises and saying that offense is about more than just offensive repertoire. I guess that's just the way the cookie crumbles. Still plenty great Knicks posters out there who do their best to make up for those that blind beyond the point of return.

I didn't even vote for Carmelo Anthony. I voted LeBron.

KnicksR4Real
12-04-2011, 10:21 PM
How do people define "best offensive player"? I'm just curious, because I feel like most really only are thinking like "best scorer".

Just made an edit in what my opinion is the best offensive player.

Swashcuff
12-04-2011, 10:32 PM
I don't have an opinion, I'm asking for everyone else's. When did I even state an opinion?:facepalm:


How can LeBron be the best offensive player. He is extremely inconsistent and doesn't show up in the fourth quarter. If your the best offensive player in the NBA, you should be able to play the same, if not better in the fourth quarter. If you choke, and you can't come through on the offensive end, then your not number one. The number ones should be Durant, Melo, or Dirk.

:eyebrow:

WadeKobe
12-04-2011, 10:42 PM
^For 3 quarters I would agree with you.....

:facepalm:

I love it when small sample sizes determine entire careers. Somehow 6 games overrules 719 games. Good grief.

VinceCarter
12-04-2011, 10:45 PM
Monta Ellis

Beat me to it.

NetsNation
12-04-2011, 11:05 PM
umm Deron Williams not on the list...

MELO 15
12-04-2011, 11:07 PM
When I think of the words best and offensive this is who I think

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xs8tiDa6Ws

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbmtK86QFiU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SuCyCIbsqs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDj4F-ieOd8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBaJwMsYG-k

tredigs
12-04-2011, 11:30 PM
So, Lebron - who scores both more often and more efficiently than Melo - while also maintaining a historically deadly passing game from the forward position (arguably best ever), in contrast to Melo's par-at-best playmaking ability is a lesser offensive player than Anthony? Anybody care to explain that one in some detail?

The two aren't even comparable offensively when playmaking ability is taken into account - which is essentially all offense is about - making plays.

I think you can maybe argue Durant, Dirk (given his insane ability to virtually score at will with elite efficiency, despite his lack of elite passing), and especially D. Wade (a better choice than Kobe at this point), or a healthy Chris Paul for top offensive player in the game.

Melo's a shade below all of them, and without question behind Lebron.

WadeKobe
12-05-2011, 03:06 AM
God, NY/Melo fans are the worst. :pity:

basketfan4life
12-05-2011, 03:15 AM
What about it? Can you prove that one player's presence is greater than anothers? What makes you right and someone else wrong for that? None of what you're trying to claim is making sense.

i didn't say anyone is wrong, i just say "like you said" you can't prove someone's presence is greater than anothers(actually you could but it takes a lot of work) so throwing bunch of stats doesn't seal the deal, also don't put words in my mouth.

basketfan4life
12-05-2011, 03:17 AM
That just further proves Lebron is the best. He scores at an elite level, distributes, and has a presences that can create for others. ( double teams, and packing the paint so he can't drive, which leaves players open.)

did i say lebron is not the best offensive player on my post? i just said durant and dirk belongs this list,because someone said they don't. god you people take offense everything on LBJ and defend him like a prophet.

Venomous88
12-05-2011, 10:11 AM
Wade continues to be underrated

Swashcuff
12-05-2011, 10:24 AM
Wade continues to be underrated

All he does is prove suckers wrong.Offensively I'm taking Wade over Melo 10 times out of 10 hands down no questions asked.

Swashcuff
12-05-2011, 10:27 AM
i didn't say anyone is wrong, i just say "like you said" you can't prove someone's presence is greater than anothers(actually you could but it takes a lot of work) so throwing bunch of stats doesn't seal the deal, also don't put words in my mouth.

I just facts to back my opinion. I don't just going rambling on with a bunch of ludicrous comments which make no sense what soever. You try to back your claim by saying TD, Kobe and Shaq among others were the best at this and this but what makes them the best? Because you say it? Can you show us some film as to why you hold such an opinion? Or maybe give us a quote or two because right now all you're saying is nothing more than words with nothing whatsoever to back them up.

Dolfan305
12-05-2011, 11:40 AM
I'll take Wade over Melo any day of the week on offense. does efficiency and passing mean nothing to you guys? He also scores just as much ppg.

Dolfan305
12-05-2011, 11:41 AM
I guarantee you that all these Knicks fans would think Lebron was the 10x better than Melo if he had chosen the Knicks last summer

Swashcuff
12-05-2011, 11:49 AM
I guarantee you that all these Knicks fans would think Lebron was the 10x better than Melo if he had chosen the Knicks last summer

Fact!

jewno
12-05-2011, 12:15 PM
I guarantee you that all these Knicks fans would think Lebron was the 10x better than Melo if he had chosen the Knicks last summer

they'd be saying hes better than mj

WadeKobe
12-05-2011, 12:57 PM
Wade continues to be underrated

Wade is arguably the most underrated player of this generation. He was always giving LBJ a run for his money as best player in the game, and no one even thinks he's top3 most of the time. It's disgusting.

Sadly, for Wade, he came into the league when Kobe was the closest thing we'd seen to Jordan and Wade wasn't old enough to be better. By the time Wade was clearly better than Kobe, he was being overshadowed by LeBron.

On top of that, he didn't have any hype coming out of college - for God knows what reason - and he has played in a small market his entire career.

It is such a shame. :pity:

basketfan4life
12-05-2011, 01:06 PM
I just facts to back my opinion. I don't just going rambling on with a bunch of ludicrous comments which make no sense what soever. You try to back your claim by saying TD, Kobe and Shaq among others were the best at this and this but what makes them the best? Because you say it? Can you show us some film as to why you hold such an opinion? Or maybe give us a quote or two because right now all you're saying is nothing more than words with nothing whatsoever to back them up.

what you call fact is some stats which we don't even know its value on overall team offense, i can say i am 179cm and belove 180cm now this is a fact, if you say someones ws , per or whatever stat you pull out is better than anothers that may be a fact but if you say someone is better overall or offensive player because he has better stats it's not a fact, it is just your point of view...

if i say dirk has 1 ring and lebron has zero, this is a fact too, but if i say dirk is better than lebron because he has more rings this is just point of view...

you know nothing about science, statistics or mathematics, all you do is accept some stats as facts and only facts, then accuse others and say you ramble words, you have no facts blah blah blah...İ don't even know how many times i saw you insulting people just because they don't agree with you on this kind of subject, but on the other hand i can see now you have no toughts at all, and if stats didn't exist like first few years in chinese pro. basketball league then you'd got nothing to say.

Dolfan305
12-05-2011, 01:17 PM
Wade is arguably the most underrated player of this generation. He was always giving LBJ a run for his money as best player in the game, and no one even thinks he's top3 most of the time. It's disgusting.

Sadly, for Wade, he came into the league when Kobe was the closest thing we'd seen to Jordan and Wade wasn't old enough to be better. By the time Wade was clearly better than Kobe, he was being overshadowed by LeBron.

On top of that, he didn't have any hype coming out of college - for God knows what reason - and he has played in a small market his entire career.

It is such a shame. :pity:

At least lebron and bosh are on the Heat now. A few more championships and finals mvps will but him in the discussion of the best shooting guards of all time, where he deserves to be

WadeKobe
12-05-2011, 01:35 PM
At least lebron and bosh are on the Heat now. A few more championships and finals mvps will but him in the discussion of the best shooting guards of all time, where he deserves to be

He's already a lock at top5, and likely will be top3 or 4 depending upon how his career looks stacked up to Kobe's, and how much the opiner truly values Jerry West.

Currently, this is my rankings:

1) Jordan
2) West
3) Kobe

Wade will easily fill in that 4 spot when he retires, possibly even pass Kobe. We'll see.

jason6692
12-05-2011, 01:45 PM
Dwayne wade will never rank in fronter of Kobe
I vote melo on this tho and the fact that Dwight is on here is ridiculous he can barely shoot a FT which is an offensive category melo is a prolific scorer and can score in so many diff ways even his offensive rebounding is something to look at

WadeKobe
12-05-2011, 02:24 PM
Dwayne wade will never rank in fronter of Kobe
I vote melo on this tho and the fact that Dwight is on here is ridiculous he can barely shoot a FT which is an offensive category melo is a prolific scorer and can score in so many diff ways even his offensive rebounding is something to look at

That's a ridiculous statement. If he finishes his career with the same amount of MVP's (1), Finals MVP's (2), gets 4 rings, and finishes with a better PER, WS/48, WS, assists, blocks, steals, better shooting%, better TS%....

The only think Kobe would have on him would be rings, and by 1.

At that point, it's simply a judgment call.

basketfan4life
12-05-2011, 02:32 PM
That's a ridiculous statement. If he finishes his career with the same amount of MVP's (1), Finals MVP's (2), gets 4 rings, and finishes with a better PER, WS/48, WS, assists, blocks, steals, better shooting%, better TS%....

The only think Kobe would have on him would be rings, and by 1.

At that point, it's simply a judgment call.

if this is the case i call wade>kobe...but that is a lot of catching up to do by Wade and Kobe's carreer is not over bro you seem to cut him of real quick.

Evolution23
12-05-2011, 02:58 PM
Had LeBron James gone to the Knicks when he was a FA I could solidly put my head on a block that Knicks fans like Knicks4Real, Evolution etc would be singing his praises and saying that offense is about more than just offensive repertoire. I guess that's just the way the cookie crumbles. Still plenty great Knicks posters out there who do their best to make up for those that blind beyond the point of return.

Please you are the biggest iverson homer in the world. talking about being fair. give yourself a facepalm.

Swashcuff
12-05-2011, 03:25 PM
what you call fact is some stats which we don't even know its value on overall team offense, i can say i am 179cm and belove 180cm now this is a fact, if you say someones ws , per or whatever stat you pull out is better than anothers that may be a fact but if you say someone is better overall or offensive player because he has better stats it's not a fact, it is just your point of view...

if i say dirk has 1 ring and lebron has zero, this is a fact too, but if i say dirk is better than lebron because he has more rings this is just point of view...

you know nothing about science, statistics or mathematics, all you do is accept some stats as facts and only facts, then accuse others and say you ramble words, you have no facts blah blah blah...İ don't even know how many times i saw you insulting people just because they don't agree with you on this kind of subject, but on the other hand i can see now you have no toughts at all, and if stats didn't exist like first few years in chinese pro. basketball league then you'd got nothing to say.

This post makes absolutely no sense. I back my opinion with facts. Simple as that. What do you back yours with? Bias?

Correct me if I am wrong but weren't you the one who responded to my post by saying I don't watch games when you know nothing about me?

Also how dumb is it to say that the stats don't tell us who is better offensively? :confused:

You can have alllll the skill in the world if you're skill doesn't equate to success for you and your team (which in this case is measured by the offensive statistical production) how can you be better than another player.

What LeBron lacks in offensive skill set and repertoire he makes up for in his effectiveness, efficiency and playmaking.

Everything that I have said I have backed with evidence.You on the other hand you just have a view. Have a nice day with that.

Swashcuff
12-05-2011, 03:26 PM
Please you are the biggest iverson homer in the world. talking about being fair. give yourself a facepalm.

Anyone who thinks I am the biggest Iverson homer knows nothing about me. I remain logical in damn near every single one of my discussions about A.I. I would never facepalm someone for saying LeBron James is better offensive player than A.I. was.

Swashcuff=Logical
Evolution= Extreme Biased Homer

coryd238
12-05-2011, 04:16 PM
Lebron is a better offensive player than Durant, so are Melo, Kobe, and Wade. Typical PSD Durant bias.

Swashcuff
12-05-2011, 04:19 PM
Lebron is a better offensive player than Durant, so are Melo, Kobe, and Wade. Typical PSD Durant bias.

Is LeBron better than Melo?

coryd238
12-05-2011, 04:22 PM
Is LeBron better than Melo?

Offensively? Yes, Lebron's passing game is better than Melo's, and that's what gives him the slight edge (Although, I still feel like Melo's passing is underrated).

Swashcuff
12-05-2011, 04:24 PM
Offensively? Yes, Lebron's passing game is better than Melo's, and that's what gives him the slight edge (Although, I still feel like Melo's passing is underrated).

At least someone appreciates the value of play-making. :up: I'll wont agree that Melo is better than Durant offensively however.

Where do you think guys like Nash, CP3, Dwill and Rose fall in all of this?

Dolfan305
12-05-2011, 04:37 PM
Is LeBron better than Melo?

Of course. Lebron averages 7 assists per game compared to Melo's 3. He has a far better fg%. Any advanced stat will show you Lebron is better offensively. Lebron is even a better scorer than Melo. He averaged more points per game last season than him, and more for his career. Lebron has had 2000+ points 7 straight seasons, Anthony only has one season on 2000+ points

mdm692
12-05-2011, 04:59 PM
Offensively? Yes, Lebron's passing game is better than Melo's, and that's what gives him the slight edge (Although, I still feel like Melo's passing is underrated).

offensively?? Hell no, defensively?? Yes. Nelo is an underrated, underrated rebounder, can score in every single way, and descent FT shooter. If lebron added a post game and a more consistent mid-3pt shot he would be the most unstoppable player ever.

Swashcuff
12-05-2011, 05:03 PM
offensively?? Hell no, defensively?? Yes. Nelo is an underrated, underrated rebounder, can score in every single way, and descent FT shooter. If lebron added a post game and a more consistent mid-3pt shot he would be the most unstoppable player ever.

Coming from a fan of Steve Nash you'd expect better perspective :pity:

Swashcuff
12-05-2011, 05:03 PM
Of course. Lebron averages 7 assists per game compared to Melo's 3. He has a far better fg%. Any advanced stat will show you Lebron is better offensively. Lebron is even a better scorer than Melo. He averaged more points per game last season than him, and more for his career. Lebron has had 2000+ points 7 straight seasons, Anthony only has one season on 2000+ points

I fully agree but that is one of the biggest Melo fans on PSD and I wanted to know what was his opinion on it.

mdm692
12-05-2011, 05:04 PM
Of course. Lebron averages 7 assists per game compared to Melo's 3. He has a far better fg%. Any advanced stat will show you Lebron is better offensively. Lebron is even a better scorer than Melo. He averaged more points per game last season than him, and more for his career. Lebron has had 2000+ points 7 straight seasons, Anthony only has one season on 2000+ points

so lebron has carried his team all his life sharing the spotlight with, mo williams, ilgauskas, delonte "step daddy" west, shaq(aging), varejeo, and a bunch scrubs while carmelo has played with iverson, billups, kmart, jr smith, nene, akk players who are more than capable of scoring the ball and therefore no need for Melo to do all the scoring, passing, and rebounding that the rest of lebrons teammates cant do. Lebron will always be statistically better because he demands the ball while melo has no problem playing with a player such as CP3 or Steve Nash.

basketfan4life
12-05-2011, 05:20 PM
This post makes absolutely no sense. I back my opinion with facts. Simple as that. What do you back yours with? Bias?

Correct me if I am wrong but weren't you the one who responded to my post by saying I don't watch games when you know nothing about me?

Also how dumb is it to say that the stats don't tell us who is better offensively? :confused:

You can have alllll the skill in the world if you're skill doesn't equate to success for you and your team (which in this case is measured by the offensive statistical production) how can you be better than another player.

What LeBron lacks in offensive skill set and repertoire he makes up for in his effectiveness, efficiency and playmaking.

Everything that I have said I have backed with evidence.You on the other hand you just have a view. Have a nice day with that.

i didn't say you don't watch ganes, i explained it, i tried to say if these stats tell us everything you don't even need to watch games,i use english as a foreign language so this much is understandable...

i explained you the difference between fact and a point of view than i said you accept these things as facts and ignore anything anyone said...and in this post you said i back everything with facts again , you couldn't prove me right any better thank you...

but for some odd reason i need to ask you these; are you a hundred percent sure a player going 28-8-8 for a game lets say with 30 per is better for his team than him going 26-6-6 with 28 per, are we a hundred percent sure that extra ball domination doesn't hurt the team?
are you sure lebron has had one single season where he actually made his teammates more better than Dirk in his MVP season and the year before that?

this is where we fall a part, if someone, anyone comes here and says lebron is the most dominant offensive force in the game,i have no word to say, i totally agree...he is individually the most dominant player in the game now and one of the best in the history of the game...But the outcome is not the best for his team sometimes especially in the most crucial times. His style of play and offensive shortcomings are what prevents him from being best in the game...

for example, people say he is one of the best midrange shooting superstar in the game because his % is very good from there...You know how much space he has when he has the ball in his hands in midrange? A lot...Other teams willing to give him that space, they all go inside, give no room to operate for his bigs, or dribblers...but he still doesn't shoot enough from there to open that paint, his fg may go higher but it still takes away from his team/teammates...

Some people here say, dirk had one of the biggest choke jobs troughout this finals where he had a real low %fg strech for the last games, but he put that pressure to heat defense and that opened all the scoring ways to terry,kidd,marion, how else you think they had that many 3 pointers for all playoffs and finals, you can not open space for your teammates without shooting the ball under defensive peressure, your teammates can't have that many open looks while other team knows you are not gonna shoot that ball enough when the defense on you is rough. And he made the most important shots almost every game all playoffs and finals...Someone here still has the guts to say dirk doesn't belong this list, i don't know what to say. He may had a Bad per, ws, or per game stats some of the games in the finals but he carried his team all the wayto the title one way or another. This is what lbj couldn't do game 6 against magic 3 years ago, against boston 2 years ago(especially in that game 5),and against mavs last year.

İ have a belief whatever i say, you reply me with "i talk facts you say nothing", lebron is godsent for most of you, but it is what it is...there is a reason some players constantly win and some don't but i don't know what else to say.

WadeKobe
12-05-2011, 05:38 PM
if this is the case i call wade>kobe...but that is a lot of catching up to do by Wade and Kobe's carreer is not over bro you seem to cut him of real quick.

Don't get me wrong. Right now, career-wise, Kobe>Wade and Wade has some serious catching up to do. However, he's finally on the caliber of team that can do it, that Kobe enjoyed for his entire career, and we'll see what happens. Trust me, I know it's a ways off, and that Kobe still has a little left in the tank. We'll see, it'll be fun.

My only point was that it will be closer than most want to admit, because everyone has always underrated and undervalued Wade because of the existence of LeBron and the fact that Kobe was already established.

My big point was that to say Wade can't pass Kobe is ridiculous. Will he? We'll see. Long way to go. With his injury history, likely not. If I had to give an opinion, I'd say no. But it's definitely possible, and to act like it isn't (as the other poster did) is simply irresponsible.

Ya follow? :)

basketfan4life
12-05-2011, 05:52 PM
Don't get me wrong. Right now, career-wise, Kobe>Wade and Wade has some serious catching up to do. However, he's finally on the caliber of team that can do it, that Kobe enjoyed for his entire career, and we'll see what happens. Trust me, I know it's a ways off, and that Kobe still has a little left in the tank. We'll see, it'll be fun.

My only point was that it will be closer than most want to admit, because everyone has always underrated and undervalued Wade because of the existence of LeBron and the fact that Kobe was already established.

My big point was that to say Wade can't pass Kobe is ridiculous. Will he? We'll see. Long way to go. With his injury history, likely not. If I had to give an opinion, I'd say no. But it's definitely possible, and to act like it isn't (as the other poster did) is simply irresponsible.

Ya follow? :)

yeah, i agree with your whole post, the chances are slim but saying Wade has no chance to pass Kobe is atleast awkward...Who is to say wade can't win 3 finals mvp from now on?it's unlikely but still possible.

One thing i don't agree with you is this, i think Kobe>West already, i even think Wade atleast equals West already, i have real hard time taking serious a player who played 50 years ago.And with a habbit to lose that many nba finals.

WadeKobe
12-05-2011, 06:02 PM
yeah, i agree with your whole post, the chances are slim but saying Wade has no chance to pass Kobe is atleast awkward...Who is to say wade can't win 3 finals mvp from now on?it's unlikely but still possible.

One thing i don't agree with you is this, i think Kobe>West already, i even think Wade atleast equals West already, i have real hard time taking serious a player who played 50 years ago.And with a habbit to lose that many nba finals.

It's a team game. Players don't lose finals. Teams do.

If there were steals, 3-pointers, and turnovers accounted for, West's career PER would be in LBJ range. The guy was an animal.

And talk about losing finals!? He won Finals MVP on a losing team. He did what he could, his team just sucked. Only player to ever accomplish that.

basketfan4life
12-05-2011, 06:05 PM
It's a team game. Players don't lose finals. Teams do.

If there were steals, 3-pointers, and turnovers accounted for, West's career PER would be in LBJ range. The guy was an animal.

And talk about losing finals!? He won Finals MVP on a losing team. He did what he could, his team just sucked. Only player to ever accomplish that.

actually, players sometimes do lose finals, i have a very recent memory about this.

and i don't believe a sucking team can make it to finals, ever.

jewno
12-05-2011, 06:20 PM
i didn't say you don't watch ganes, i explained it, i tried to say if these stats tell us everything you don't even need to watch games,i use english as a foreign language so this much is understandable...

i explained you the difference between fact and a point of view than i said you accept these things as facts and ignore anything anyone said...and in this post you said i back everything with facts again , you couldn't prove me right any better thank you...

but for some odd reason i need to ask you these; are you a hundred percent sure a player going 28-8-8 for a game lets say with 30 per is better for his team than him going 26-6-6 with 28 per, are we a hundred percent sure that extra ball domination doesn't hurt the team?
are you sure lebron has had one single season where he actually made his teammates more better than Dirk in his MVP season and the year before that?

this is where we fall a part, if someone, anyone comes here and says lebron is the most dominant offensive force in the game,i have no word to say, i totally agree...he is individually the most dominant player in the game now and one of the best in the history of the game...But the outcome is not the best for his team sometimes especially in the most crucial times. His style of play and offensive shortcomings are what prevents him from being best in the game...

for example, people say he is one of the best midrange shooting superstar in the game because his % is very good from there...You know how much space he has when he has the ball in his hands in midrange? A lot...Other teams willing to give him that space, they all go inside, give no room to operate for his bigs, or dribblers...but he still doesn't shoot enough from there to open that paint, his fg may go higher but it still takes away from his team/teammates...

Some people here say, dirk had one of the biggest choke jobs troughout this finals where he had a real low %fg strech for the last games, but he put that pressure to heat defense and that opened all the scoring ways to terry,kidd,marion, how else you think they had that many 3 pointers for all playoffs and finals, you can not open space for your teammates without shooting the ball under defensive peressure, your teammates can't have that many open looks while other team knows you are not gonna shoot that ball enough when the defense on you is rough. And he made the most important shots almost every game all playoffs and finals...Someone here still has the guts to say dirk doesn't belong this list, i don't know what to say. He may had a Bad per, ws, or per game stats some of the games in the finals but he carried his team all the wayto the title one way or another. This is what lbj couldn't do game 6 against magic 3 years ago, against boston 2 years ago(especially in that game 5),and against mavs last year.

İ have a belief whatever i say, you reply me with "i talk facts you say nothing", lebron is godsent for most of you, but it is what it is...there is a reason some players constantly win and some don't but i don't know what else to say.

lol maybe because dirks teamtes actually showed up while lebrons choked, please dont blame lebron on his teamates inability to play basketball in the playoffs, and for the last sentence, all players atent drafted into the one of the most winningst(not a word dont care) franchise and set up with the best player in the game right from the get go.

and does lebron having a large fanbase piss you off????

PlezPlayDKnicks
12-05-2011, 06:26 PM
Best Post of 2011.. Hands down



i didn't say you don't watch ganes, i explained it, i tried to say if these stats tell us everything you don't even need to watch games,i use english as a foreign language so this much is understandable...

i explained you the difference between fact and a point of view than i said you accept these things as facts and ignore anything anyone said...and in this post you said i back everything with facts again , you couldn't prove me right any better thank you...

but for some odd reason i need to ask you these; are you a hundred percent sure a player going 28-8-8 for a game lets say with 30 per is better for his team than him going 26-6-6 with 28 per, are we a hundred percent sure that extra ball domination doesn't hurt the team?
are you sure lebron has had one single season where he actually made his teammates more better than Dirk in his MVP season and the year before that?

this is where we fall a part, if someone, anyone comes here and says lebron is the most dominant offensive force in the game,i have no word to say, i totally agree...he is individually the most dominant player in the game now and one of the best in the history of the game...But the outcome is not the best for his team sometimes especially in the most crucial times. His style of play and offensive shortcomings are what prevents him from being best in the game...

for example, people say he is one of the best midrange shooting superstar in the game because his % is very good from there...You know how much space he has when he has the ball in his hands in midrange? A lot...Other teams willing to give him that space, they all go inside, give no room to operate for his bigs, or dribblers...but he still doesn't shoot enough from there to open that paint, his fg may go higher but it still takes away from his team/teammates...

Some people here say, dirk had one of the biggest choke jobs troughout this finals where he had a real low %fg strech for the last games, but he put that pressure to heat defense and that opened all the scoring ways to terry,kidd,marion, how else you think they had that many 3 pointers for all playoffs and finals, you can not open space for your teammates without shooting the ball under defensive peressure, your teammates can't have that many open looks while other team knows you are not gonna shoot that ball enough when the defense on you is rough. And he made the most important shots almost every game all playoffs and finals...Someone here still has the guts to say dirk doesn't belong this list, i don't know what to say. He may had a Bad per, ws, or per game stats some of the games in the finals but he carried his team all the wayto the title one way or another. This is what lbj couldn't do game 6 against magic 3 years ago, against boston 2 years ago(especially in that game 5),and against mavs last year.

İ have a belief whatever i say, you reply me with "i talk facts you say nothing", lebron is godsent for most of you, but it is what it is...there is a reason some players constantly win and some don't but i don't know what else to say.

basketfan4life
12-05-2011, 06:30 PM
lol maybe because dirks teamtes actually showed up while lebrons choked, please dont blame lebron on his teamates inability to play basketball in the playoffs, and for the last sentence, all players atent drafted into the one of the most winningst(not a word dont care) franchise and set up with the best player in the game right from the get go.

and does lebron having a large fanbase piss you off????

what pisses me of is not his large fan base, his unreasomable fans that annoy me, kobe has a larger fan base in the worl but his unlogical fans piss me off too...You really talk about choking and blame his teammates for that, mr wade has something to say to you.

WadeKobe
12-05-2011, 06:57 PM
actually, players sometimes do lose finals, i have a very recent memory about this.

and i don't believe a sucking team can make it to finals, ever.

I'm not saying a sucking team. I'm saying a good team can perform poorly for a series.

Dolfan305
12-05-2011, 07:07 PM
so lebron has carried his team all his life sharing the spotlight with, mo williams, ilgauskas, delonte "step daddy" west, shaq(aging), varejeo, and a bunch scrubs while carmelo has played with iverson, billups, kmart, jr smith, nene, akk players who are more than capable of scoring the ball and therefore no need for Melo to do all the scoring, passing, and rebounding that the rest of lebrons teammates cant do. Lebron will always be statistically better because he demands the ball while melo has no problem playing with a player such as CP3 or Steve Nash.

Give me a break. Lebron shoots less per game than Melo. Lebron had better stats while playing with D wade and Bosh. What's your excuse there?

Chronz
12-05-2011, 07:08 PM
Nelo is an underrated, underrated rebounder, can score in every single way, and descent FT shooter.
Why would I care that Melo can score in every single way when every attempt is a low% shot?



If lebron added a post game and a more consistent mid-3pt shot he would be the most unstoppable player ever.
Nah his midrange game is great, he needs an inbetween game and some more post moves to get them off.

Evolution23
12-05-2011, 09:02 PM
Anyone who thinks I am the biggest Iverson homer knows nothing about me. I remain logical in damn near every single one of my discussions about A.I. I would never facepalm someone for saying LeBron James is better offensive player than A.I. was.

Swashcuff=Logical
Evolution= Extreme Biased Homer

When did Lebron ever have post up game? no
Does Lebron have a silky smooth jumper that's consistent? no
Does Lebron come through when it matters most? no
When you are talking about pure offense Melo is the guy to have on your team. Lebron is a play maker not a scorer.

Evolution23
12-05-2011, 09:04 PM
I fully agree but that is one of the biggest Melo fans on PSD and I wanted to know what was his opinion on it.

Lebron is not a developed fully on the offensive end. He doesn't even come close to having the footwork, balance, and moves it requires to be complete. Melo, Durant , and Kobe are all better than him on the offensive end.

jewno
12-05-2011, 09:08 PM
When did Lebron ever have post up game? no
Does Lebron have a silky smooth jumper that's consistent? no
Does Lebron come through when it matters most? no
When you are talking about pure offense Melo is the guy to have on your team. Lebron is a play maker not a scorer.

does melo have a post game? yes
does melo have a silky smooth jumper thats consistent? no
does melo come through when it matters most? no
does melo pass efficently? no
does melo score efficenty? no
does melo run offenses well? no
does melo chuck? yes

and this thread is best offensive player not scorer. in which lebron still does a better job than melo in.

Chronz
12-05-2011, 09:10 PM
When did Lebron ever have post up game? no
Does Lebron have a silky smooth jumper that's consistent? no
Does Lebron come through when it matters most? no
When you are talking about pure offense Melo is the guy to have on your team. Lebron is a play maker not a scorer.

Bron has a decent post game
He has a very good midrange/long 2's jumper
He comes through when it matters most at a far better rate than Melo
When you are talking about pure offense, youve got to take Bron, Melo is just a chucker.

Seriously why do people keep talking about Melo's post game when it results in low% shots?

Chronz
12-05-2011, 09:13 PM
Lebron is not a developed fully on the offensive end. He doesn't even come close to having the footwork, balance, and moves it requires to be complete. Melo, Durant , and Kobe are all better than him on the offensive end.
He has great balance but his footwork is poor. Still hes a much better OFFENSIVE player than Melo.

Melo for all his skill, settles for low% shots and he doesnt create nearly enough for others.

Again why do I care that Melo has more bag of tricks when they all suck? Just think of it this way, would you rather get a bunch of 10 dollar gifts (say 10) or would you rather 1 person give you 200 bucks straight up?

Chronz
12-05-2011, 09:15 PM
WTF Melo is actually beating Kobe?

Mr Costanza
12-05-2011, 09:16 PM
does melo have a post game? yes
does melo have a silky smooth jumper thats consistent? no
does melo come through when it matters most? no
does melo pass efficently? no
does melo score efficenty? no
does melo run offenses well? no
does melo chuck? yes

and this thread is best offensive player not scorer. in which lebron still does a better job than melo in.

You sir are nothing more than a Knick hater. http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/haters-gonna-hate18.jpg?w=500&h=366

Cal827
12-05-2011, 09:20 PM
I'm sorry, but I think the Knick fans have jumped on this one. I'm not saying Carmelo isn't one of the elite players on the offensive side of the ball, but when you take everything in consideration, then I think Lebron slightly edges him.

PrettyBoyJ
12-05-2011, 09:22 PM
Amare should be on the list, especially if Howard is on.

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jewno
12-05-2011, 09:37 PM
You sir are nothing more than a Knick hater. http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/haters-gonna-hate18.jpg?w=500&h=366

what do you dissagree with?

jewno
12-05-2011, 09:39 PM
lebron comes through more than melo when it matters mosts, and a better shooter.

Mr Costanza
12-05-2011, 09:42 PM
what do you dissagree with?

It was a joke. All in good fun.

jzero
12-05-2011, 10:08 PM
sigh these polls are stupid. who cares what psd thinks about who the best offensive player is. Really it should be Dirk lol.

WadeKobe
12-05-2011, 10:17 PM
Amare should be on the list, especially if Howard is on.

The list should be only two people:

Dirk
LeBron


You can only choose between those 2. Everyone else is sooo wrong. Melo? God I hate PSD's NBA forum.

Evolution23
12-05-2011, 10:21 PM
does melo have a post game? yes
does melo have a silky smooth jumper thats consistent? no
does melo come through when it matters most? no
does melo pass efficently? no
does melo score efficenty? no
does melo run offenses well? no
does melo chuck? yes

and this thread is best offensive player not scorer. in which lebron still does a better job than melo in.

U got me laughing. :laugh2:

Evolution23
12-05-2011, 10:23 PM
lebron comes through more than melo when it matters mosts, and a better shooter.

When did Lebron come through when it mattered? regular season? He's not big time player in the clutch, every one knows that. Don't be in denial.

Dolfan305
12-05-2011, 10:27 PM
When did Lebron come through when it mattered? regular season? He's not big time player in the clutch, every one knows that. Don't be in denial.

Carmelo was swept in the first round pal. I guarantee you thought Lebron was the best player since MJ last summer when the Knicks were campaigning for him to come to your pathetic team

jewno
12-05-2011, 10:40 PM
When did Lebron come through when it mattered? regular season? He's not big time player in the clutch, every one knows that. Don't be in denial.

When did melo come through when it mattered? regular season? He's not big time player in the clutch, every one knows that. Don't be in denial

lol lebrons playoff resume and performances takes a steamy hot **** on melos. top 5 all time in post season ppg.

jewno
12-05-2011, 10:42 PM
sigh these polls are stupid. who cares what psd thinks about who the best offensive player is. Really it should be Dirk lol.

lol we should not care what psd thinks but your opinon holds much more substance.

mdm692
12-05-2011, 10:47 PM
The list should be only two people:

Dirk
LeBron


You can only choose between those 2. Everyone else is sooo wrong. Melo? God I hate PSD's NBA forum.

hmm no the top 5 list should consist, Lebron, CP3, Nash, Kobe, Dirk in no particular order

WadeKobe
12-05-2011, 10:53 PM
When did Lebron come through when it mattered? regular season? He's not big time player in the clutch, every one knows that. Don't be in denial.

Wait... let me get this straight...

1) LeBron doesn't come through when it matters most because he was insanely clutch in the 1st round of the playoffs, the second round of the playoffs, and the Eastern Conference Finals, leading his team to being EC Champions... but he's not clutch because he can't deliver in the Finals. Therefore, he only comes through in the regular season?

2) Carmelo "comes through when it matters most", because he is clutch... in the regular season? The guy didn't even win a game in the 1st round. He's never won a conference championship. Ever. LeBron has won 2.

I'm so lost. Your post has zero logical foundation. It's a contradiction, and pure hypocrisy.

Why do people insist on sounding foolish?

WadeKobe
12-05-2011, 10:54 PM
U got me laughing. :laugh2:

You are why people hate the Knicks.

WadeKobe
12-05-2011, 10:55 PM
hmm no the top 5 list should consist, Lebron, CP3, Nash, Kobe, Dirk in no particular order

No. Kobe belongs nowhere near that list anymore. Wade is easily above Kobe now.

And yes, I'd say there is a particular order.

Dirk/LeBron

CP3/Wade/Nash

Those two are the best, period, imo.

KnicksR4Real
12-05-2011, 11:02 PM
The list should be only two people:

Dirk
LeBron


You can only choose between those 2. Everyone else is sooo wrong. Melo? God I hate PSD's NBA forum.

Then don't ever post again.:facepalm:

WadeKobe
12-05-2011, 11:03 PM
Then don't ever post again.:facepalm:

I might not. I might just let homer trolls like you dominate. :rolleyes:

KnicksR4Real
12-05-2011, 11:06 PM
When did melo come through when it mattered? regular season? He's not big time player in the clutch, every one knows that. Don't be in denial

lol lebrons playoff resume and performances takes a steamy hot **** on melos. top 5 all time in post season ppg.

top 5 all time wins? no. its not the points, its the wins.

jewno
12-05-2011, 11:09 PM
top 5 all time wins? no. its not the points, its the wins.

lol doesnt matter how you slice lebron ***** on anything melo has done in the playoffs, and that is a great indicator how good a player is individually are you saying its easy to be in that company?? its doesnt even matter??? cause melo would be the most useless player in the nba if points didnt matter.

WadeKobe
12-05-2011, 11:12 PM
top 5 all time wins? no. its not the points, its the wins.

Wait, so what you're saying is that Melo sucks in clutch, right? Because the dude can't win in the playoffs.

Dolfan305
12-05-2011, 11:21 PM
top 5 all time wins? no. its not the points, its the wins.

Yes, and Lebron also has more playoff wins than Melo, thanks for bringing that up. You are a complete moron.

mdm692
12-05-2011, 11:33 PM
No. Kobe belongs nowhere near that list anymore. Wade is easily above Kobe now.

And yes, I'd say there is a particular order.

Dirk/LeBron

CP3/Wade/Nash

Those two are the best, period, imo.

i think people underestimate kobe because he had an up and down season but that was due to injuries he still has one of the most complete all around games in the league. And yes as soon as i posted this i thought of wade but i would replace dirk not kobe. But really there is no particular order nash is the better shooter and better passer(only rivaled by lbj and cp3 but not surpassed) that doesnt mean he is #1 cause a case can be made for all.

Chronz
12-06-2011, 01:18 AM
Hey guys, is Jamal Crawford a better offensive player than Bron/Wade. He has games where he gos nuts, Bron cant do that

Hawkeye15
12-06-2011, 01:33 AM
what about presence of a certain player(and off the ball movement) creating for others as much as passing the ball to someone to shoot and,this is what making teammates better is to me..Dirk,Kobe,prime TD,prime Shaq, KD all fall in this category. You can find this via no stat sheet, but this happens to create best offensive teams somehow, per or ws doesn't show it, but whatever.

you are now asking me to debate you on my eyes versus yours.

I will take my chances.

ManningToTyree
12-06-2011, 04:14 AM
The fact that LeBron isn't number one means this thread is not unbiased

basketfan4life
12-06-2011, 04:51 AM
you are now asking me to debate you on my eyes versus yours.

I will take my chances.

if your eyes can't tell you dirk and kd belongs this list then your chances are very slim.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
12-06-2011, 08:36 AM
Hey guys, is Jamal Crawford a better offensive player than Bron/Wade. He has games where he gos nuts, Bron cant do that

:laugh2:

nyKnicks126
12-06-2011, 09:10 AM
Nice.

Swashcuff
12-06-2011, 03:37 PM
When did Lebron ever have post up game? no
Does Lebron have a silky smooth jumper that's consistent? no
Does Lebron come through when it matters most? no
When you are talking about pure offense Melo is the guy to have on your team. Lebron is a play maker not a scorer.

How ridiculous is this? The man is a former scoring champ and has averaged over 30 ppg in numerous seasons in his career. He is a better and more effecient scorer than Melo and as his career has progressed he's become just as good a jump shooter but you're saying that he's not a scorer?

He's 3rd all time behind Michael Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain in career ppg but he's not a scorer? If this is not utter ridiculousness I don't know what is. :pity: PS LeBron has played won more finals games than Melo has scoring titles.

BrandoCommando
12-06-2011, 03:43 PM
as is nash =/

as is Ellis :/

Swashcuff
12-06-2011, 03:44 PM
Lebron is not a developed fully on the offensive end. He doesn't even come close to having the footwork, balance, and moves it requires to be complete. Melo, Durant , and Kobe are all better than him on the offensive end.

But for some reason he's able to score more at a more efficient and better rate than Melo and not only that but he wins games for his team in the process. Having better footwork, balance and moves doesn't make you better it makes you more skilled, what you're able to do with those skills or do with the limited skills is what makes you a great offensive player.

Tell me something when Melo and KD aren't on their A game in terms of shooting the basketball how else would they help their team?

Dolfan305
12-06-2011, 03:52 PM
But for some reason he's able to score more at a more efficient and better rate than Melo and not only that but he wins games for his team in the process. Having better footwork, balance and moves doesn't make you better it makes you more skilled, what you're able to do with those skills or do with the limited skills is what makes you a great offensive player.

Tell me something when Melo and KD aren't on their A game in terms of shooting the basketball how else would they help their team?

LOL can't believe you're still arguing with these guys. They just don't get it. 2 points driving in and laying it up/dunking is just as good or better than 2 points on a a jump shot with "nice footwork". Lebron just scores more and is more efficient, period.

Swashcuff
12-06-2011, 04:03 PM
i didn't say you don't watch ganes, i explained it, i tried to say if these stats tell us everything you don't even need to watch games,i use english as a foreign language so this much is understandable...

i explained you the difference between fact and a point of view than i said you accept these things as facts and ignore anything anyone said...and in this post you said i back everything with facts again , you couldn't prove me right any better thank you...

but for some odd reason i need to ask you these; are you a hundred percent sure a player going 28-8-8 for a game lets say with 30 per is better for his team than him going 26-6-6 with 28 per, are we a hundred percent sure that extra ball domination doesn't hurt the team?
are you sure lebron has had one single season where he actually made his teammates more better than Dirk in his MVP season and the year before that?

this is where we fall a part, if someone, anyone comes here and says lebron is the most dominant offensive force in the game,i have no word to say, i totally agree...he is individually the most dominant player in the game now and one of the best in the history of the game...But the outcome is not the best for his team sometimes especially in the most crucial times. His style of play and offensive shortcomings are what prevents him from being best in the game...

for example, people say he is one of the best midrange shooting superstar in the game because his % is very good from there...You know how much space he has when he has the ball in his hands in midrange? A lot...Other teams willing to give him that space, they all go inside, give no room to operate for his bigs, or dribblers...but he still doesn't shoot enough from there to open that paint, his fg may go higher but it still takes away from his team/teammates...

Some people here say, dirk had one of the biggest choke jobs troughout this finals where he had a real low %fg strech for the last games, but he put that pressure to heat defense and that opened all the scoring ways to terry,kidd,marion, how else you think they had that many 3 pointers for all playoffs and finals, you can not open space for your teammates without shooting the ball under defensive peressure, your teammates can't have that many open looks while other team knows you are not gonna shoot that ball enough when the defense on you is rough. And he made the most important shots almost every game all playoffs and finals...Someone here still has the guts to say dirk doesn't belong this list, i don't know what to say. He may had a Bad per, ws, or per game stats some of the games in the finals but he carried his team all the wayto the title one way or another. This is what lbj couldn't do game 6 against magic 3 years ago, against boston 2 years ago(especially in that game 5),and against mavs last year.

İ have a belief whatever i say, you reply me with "i talk facts you say nothing", lebron is godsent for most of you, but it is what it is...there is a reason some players constantly win and some don't but i don't know what else to say.

Know whats funny, at not point in this entire thread did I even mentioned a single advanced stat.

The above was a post filled with rambling that has nothing to do with what is being debated. Fact of the matter is if you think the facts are incorrect bring something to the table to dispute them because like I said before and I'll say time and time again your opinion (sorry your point of view) is just that without any form of credible evidence to back your claim.

If we're going to go eye for eye I'd take mines against yours every single time. You clearly have a dislike for certain players (LeBron James) and a clear biased for others, knowing this there is no way you can accurately ***** a player's worth on the offensive end since all you pay attention to is his flaws and not appreciate him for what he is able to accomplish despite those flaws.

Swashcuff
12-06-2011, 04:07 PM
LOL can't believe you're still arguing with these guys. They just don't get it. 2 points driving in and laying it up/dunking is just as good or better than 2 points on a a jump shot with "nice footwork". Lebron just scores more and is more efficient, period.

I wonder if they'd say Sabonis is better than Wilt offensively? Because that's the very premise in which they are using to say Melo is better than LeBron. Hell at least Sabonis was a great passer at his position which Melo is not.

basketfan4life
12-06-2011, 04:37 PM
Know whats funny, at not point in this entire thread did I even mentioned a single advanced stat.

The above was a post filled with rambling that has nothing to do with what is being debated. Fact of the matter is if you think the facts are incorrect bring something to the table to dispute them because like I said before and I'll say time and time again your opinion (sorry your point of view) is just that without any form of credible evidence to back your claim.

If we're going to go eye for eye I'd take mines against yours every single time. You clearly have a dislike for certain players (LeBron James) and a clear biased for others, knowing this there is no way you can accurately ***** a player's worth on the offensive end since all you pay attention to is his flaws and not appreciate him for what he is able to accomplish despite those flaws.

you are ridiculolus, i explained you time and time again the difference between fact and a point of view, but you just don't get it,i'm almost thinking you are mentally hurt or something. i give up...i said what you are going to accuse me again and you did exact same thing, you proved me right numerous times thank you again and again...

about lebron, i don't dislike him as a player,he is a great great player, did i like what he did in free agency or his personality? no. but that is all...i told numerous times he is a great player, most dominant individual player who is playing this game now...and yet you easily say that i don't like lebron, i only concentrate about his flaws, blah blah...i have never seen someone like you whose only vision is tunnel vision, you are right and that is it to you...Actually i think it is people like you(in this case lbj's managment team consists of his friends) what prevents lbj from being the clear best and an established winner...people who always goes, "you are the best","look at your stats","you do no wrong"...he needs some people who can show his shortcomings and show how to overcome them...not people who are dickriders.

if your stats were so valuable, a team consists of lbj,wade and,bosh clearly won 65/70+ games and easily won it all, but there is a lot more to it, i explained it using Dirk as an example, you just can't admit it, because you have no tought about game besides stats, you just don't know it.

actually why am i bothering arguing with you,someone who wrote his nickname=logical,that was the most big headed and stupidly childish thing i've seen on this forum, i'm pretty sure if you were a pro,you'd call yourself a king and wear a shirt that reads "check my stats" on it...

Chronz
12-06-2011, 04:54 PM
Nothing more to see here folks