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View Full Version : Ric Bucher: Dwight Howards 2 choices are Lakers or Mavs.



C-Style
11-29-2011, 01:13 PM
Heard this a few minutes ago on L.A's sports radio station. Can someone local pls post the link. Sorry im on my phone. And thought i should let u guys know.

ShakeN'Bake
11-29-2011, 01:15 PM
Dirk and Howard...damn...

BigDFan85
11-29-2011, 01:35 PM
Dirk and Howard...damn...

I'm trying to wipe up the drool off my keyboard. Dirk and Chandler got it done, I can't imagine Dirk and Howard....

GhostfaceDrilla
11-29-2011, 01:39 PM
Most unstoppable front court ever?

Dwight with the best rebounding and low post strength with the best shooter and possibly scorer in the NBA?

Ebbs
11-29-2011, 01:39 PM
What did they say Dallas gave in the fantasy package?

Chandler +?

DLeeicious
11-29-2011, 01:41 PM
Too bad he can't just trade himself

Ebbs
11-29-2011, 01:42 PM
Too bad he can't just trade himself

Lol you read that article in SI too lol?

Dade County
11-29-2011, 01:42 PM
This is not going to stop...... The media is to blame for fans unrest.

Sadds The Gr8
11-29-2011, 01:43 PM
Do the Mavs even have the cap to sign him? I doubt they can trade for him they have absolutely no young pieces that would help the Magic rebuild.

GhostfaceDrilla
11-29-2011, 01:44 PM
Do the Mavs even have the cap to sign him? I doubt they can trade for him they have absolutely no young pieces that would help the Magic rebuild.

Somehow trade Chandler along with Roddy, Butler, Jones, and picks/money. Not that bad of an offer.

rapjuicer06
11-29-2011, 01:46 PM
I'm going to laugh when Orlando goes hmm...Go sign where ever you can. Were just getting **** offers for you and were not going to **** ourselves over. Best of luck Dwight

oak2455
11-29-2011, 01:48 PM
But Howards babies momma said differently;)

DLeeicious
11-29-2011, 01:53 PM
Lol you read that article in SI too lol?

lol no was just poking fun at the title about him "choosing" his team like he is in charge of things and Orlando has no say.

I'm curious about the article though now, do you have a link?

elonepb
11-29-2011, 01:57 PM
And suddenly Nets, Knicks, Celtics and Bulls fans cry.

John Walls Era
11-29-2011, 02:00 PM
So much for the Knicks, Nets and the Bulls fans dreams.

Sadds The Gr8
11-29-2011, 02:00 PM
Somehow trade Chandler along with Roddy, Butler, Jones, and picks/money. Not that bad of an offer.

that's a pretty horrible package. and isn't Butler a FA?

Ebbs
11-29-2011, 02:01 PM
lol no was just poking fun at the title about him "choosing" his team like he is in charge of things and Orlando has no say.

I'm curious about the article though now, do you have a link?

Umm nah it was in the magazine. When I get home and remember what it's called I'll see if I can find it!

Dade County
11-29-2011, 02:02 PM
ring chaser .... lmao lol

Please don't take my post seriously

The BEST GM will get the job done ..... Period

Chronz
11-29-2011, 02:03 PM
Yea he dont want to share the spotlight with Blake

blahblahyoutoo
11-29-2011, 02:05 PM
And suddenly Nets, Knicks, Celtics and Bulls fans cry.

knicks were never in the running.

elonepb
11-29-2011, 02:05 PM
If I'm Orlando I say "um, right. Ok, good luck getting there as a free agent."

Baller1
11-29-2011, 02:10 PM
Somehow trade Chandler along with Roddy, Butler, Jones, and picks/money. Not that bad of an offer.

That is an atrocious package for arguably the most valuable player in the league.

rapjuicer06
11-29-2011, 02:10 PM
knicks were never in the running.

Nor was the Bulls. Only in their minds

NYsFinest
11-29-2011, 02:11 PM
If I'm Orlando I say "um, right. Ok, good luck getting there as a free agent."

Lakers can offer a package 332875 times better than the Nets...

They are in a different conference than Orlando...

If it comes down to a trade and the Lakers want Howard, he will be a Laker.

rapjuicer06
11-29-2011, 02:11 PM
If I'm Orlando I say "um, right. Ok, good luck getting there as a free agent."

You my friend, get it

rapjuicer06
11-29-2011, 02:12 PM
Lakers can offer a package 332875 times better than the Nets...

They are in a different conference than Orlando...

If it comes down to a trade and the Lakers want Howard, he will be a Laker.

That simple huh? Weird...I always thought it took the other team wanting to deal him as well. Thanks for showing me the light

justinnum1
11-29-2011, 02:14 PM
thats a ****** offer.

NYsFinest
11-29-2011, 02:15 PM
That simple huh? Weird...I always thought it took the other team wanting to deal him as well. Thanks for showing me the light

Read again.... IF orlando decides to trade him and not let him walk for free (hes clearly gone) then the Lakers can offer far more than any other team for him and get him out of the East. Why would Orlando take worse players to trade him to a team that they play 4 times a year.

2 of Odom, Pau and Bynum keeps the Magic as a top 5 team in the East

justinnum1
11-29-2011, 02:15 PM
Then again there gm is otis smith smh

elonepb
11-29-2011, 02:17 PM
Lakers can offer a package 332875 times better than the Nets...

They are in a different conference than Orlando...

If it comes down to a trade and the Lakers want Howard, he will be a Laker.

Yeah, because Orlando is losing their superstar player, so their best plan forward is to take back equal size contracts to continue to pay a huge amount in luxury tax and being sure to compile draft picks that will give them great talent in the 2nd round.

Gimme a break. Even as a hypothetical, a Nets deal gives them a 20PPG center to replace their 20PPG center, a guy who pretty much thinks Orlando is the greatest place on earth, a ton of cap space to absorb some of Orlando's bad deals to get them back into a manageable position, and a ton of draft picks the Nets have stockpiled.

Not saying that's the way Otis would go, but your idea that it's just a player for player swap iZ dUh beZt D3aL - then you must be a Knicks fan.

Law25
11-29-2011, 02:20 PM
I dont really want him in LA LA land right now. I really wanna see how the Lakers do as is. Then pull a block buster if needed. I dont get the rush players have now. It's like there afraid of the Mayan prediction for 2012 and are rushing to get the most out of life now lol

NYsFinest
11-29-2011, 02:21 PM
Yeah, because Orlando is losing their superstar player, so their best plan forward is to take back equal size contracts to continue to pay a huge amount in luxury tax and being sure to compile draft picks that will give them great talent in the 2nd round.

Gimme a break. Even as a hypothetical, a Nets deal gives them a 20PPG center to replace their 20PPG center, a guy who pretty much thinks Orlando is the greatest place on earth, a ton of cap space to absorb some of Orlando's bad deals to get them back into a manageable position, and a ton of draft picks the Nets have stockpiled.

Not saying that's the way Otis would go, but your idea that it's just a player for player swap iZ dUh beZt D3aL - then you must be a Knicks fan.

You are aware that Lopez is about to get a HUGE contract extension this summer right? Probably around 12-13 million a year. Their other "trade piece" Humphires is going to get at least 7-8. Other than that the Nets don't really have much to offer those picks will be irrelevant if they have Deron and Dwight.

Who is this cheap rebuilding piece from the Nets you speak of? The 25th pick in a weak draft MarShon?!?!

Please explain to me how they provide this talent and cap space??

rapjuicer06
11-29-2011, 02:22 PM
I have a different view of this. I would spurn Dwight Howard. As an organization, Orlando has done EVERYTHING for Dwight Howard. Dwight wanted Otis to go get Carter, so he went and got Carter. They have done everything Dwight has wanted them to do and then Dwight's just guna kick up dust and leave them. Well ya know what? **** you Dwight is what I'd say if he's going to leave. You want to play in LA, good luck. You want to play some where, where they can't sign you out right? Tough ****. Go **** yourself. We will rebuild just like we had to do when Shaq left. We aren't helping you out by trading you some where, where you can flat out win a championship and spurn the team that made you who you are today. Peace out *****

Or something along those lines

elonepb
11-29-2011, 02:22 PM
Here's the audio. He didn't say those were his two teams, he said he can SEE him playing in those two cities. LA a possibility and so is Dallas.

Also said Knicks aren't getting CP3. Listen at the 5:33 mark.

http://es.pn/ryjGc8

/thread

tcav701
11-29-2011, 02:23 PM
The Magic would be better off letting him walk than talking on equal salary. There will be alot of talent that same year they can steal when other teams are bidding for D12 and CP3.

rapjuicer06
11-29-2011, 02:23 PM
You are aware that Lopez is about to get a HUGE contract extension this summer right? Probably around 12-13 million a year. Their other "trade piece" Humphires is going to get at least 7-8. Other than that the Nets don't really have much to offer those picks will be irrelevant if they have Deron and Dwight.

Who is this cheap rebuilding piece from the Nets you speak of? The 25th pick in a weak draft MarShon?!?!

I'm sorry, but Orlando would not want Lopez and Humphires...They did nothing together in New Jersey, why the **** would Orlando want that lol

GhostfaceDrilla
11-29-2011, 02:23 PM
That is an atrocious package for arguably the most valuable player in the league.

It's not the best but Roddy still has the potential to develop into a 20 ppg scorer and Jones has some upside as well.

NYsFinest
11-29-2011, 02:26 PM
Here's the audio. He didn't say those were his two teams, he said he can SEE him playing in those two cities. LA a possibility and so is Dallas.

Also said Knicks aren't getting CP3. Listen at the 5:33 mark.

http://es.pn/ryjGc8

/thread

Not sure what CP3 has to do with this thread... but since you feel the need to take shots and get defensive Knicks already have 2 superstars locked up on long term contracts. They don't NEED CP3 and cn build a very good team many ways, Nets on the other hand is really Howard or bust... so good luck :clap:

elonepb
11-29-2011, 02:27 PM
I'm sorry, but Orlando would not want Lopez and Humphires...They did nothing together in New Jersey, why the **** would Orlando want that lol

Humphries isn't a Net.

rapjuicer06
11-29-2011, 02:28 PM
Humphries isn't a Net.

I was quoting the other guy

John Walls Era
11-29-2011, 02:28 PM
It's not the best but Roddy still has the potential to develop into a 20 ppg scorer and Jones has some upside as well.

God hes overrated, but if Mark Cuban says so.

NYsFinest
11-29-2011, 02:29 PM
Humphries isn't a Net.

So who do the Nets trade that brings in talent and cap relief?!

Other than Lopez and Deron the Nets have Farmar, Outlaw, James, Morrow, Petro and Marshon brooks under contract (might have missed someone irrelevant)

Punk
11-29-2011, 02:31 PM
Lol People believing a Ric Bucher report.

elonepb
11-29-2011, 02:31 PM
Not sure what CP3 has to do with this thread... but since you feel the need to take shots and get defensive Knicks already have 2 superstars locked up on long term contracts.

:laugh: YUP! Exactly why the Knicks are NOT getting CP3! Thanks for handling that yourself.

Also funny that you used the word "defensive" in the same sentence.

rapjuicer06
11-29-2011, 02:32 PM
So who do the Nets trade that brings in talent and cap relief?!

Other than Lopez and Deron the Nets have Farmar, Outlaw, James, Morrow, Petro and Marshon brooks under contract (might have missed someone irrelevant)

Why does Howard need to be traded there? The Nets next year can outright sign D-Will and D-Howard. Flat out.

Morrow/Farmar/Petro/Outlaw/James are the only ones on the roster when Dwight and Williams hit FA. (not counting rooks) and that salary adds up to a huge $19,493,080. Leaving the Nets with about $38,506,920 to spend on FA's

NYsFinest
11-29-2011, 02:33 PM
:laugh: YUP! Exactly why the Knicks are NOT getting CP3! Thanks for handling that yourself.

Also funny that you used the word "defensive" in the same sentence.

This is a Howard thread... I wont cry if Knicks don't get CP3 because I know the Knicks will at the very least be a very solid team for the next 4-5 years, same can't be said for the Nets.

NYsFinest
11-29-2011, 02:34 PM
Why does Howard need to be traded there? The Nets next year can outright sign D-Will and D-Howard. Flat out.

Because Orlando wont let him walk, its pretty common knowledge that he isn't resigning there... this isn't the same as the Cavs thinking they have the inside track to Lebron until his announcement.

rapjuicer06
11-29-2011, 02:37 PM
God hes overrated, but if Mark Cuban says so.

Your sig cracks me up

elonepb
11-29-2011, 02:38 PM
This is a Howard thread... I wont cry if Knicks don't get CP3 because I know the Knicks will at the very least be a very solid team for the next 4-5 years, same can't be said for the Nets.

Dunno how you made this Knicks vs Nets, but whatever. Hold onto that amnesty because when Amare's knees & back go, he's going to be Eddy Curry 2.0.

rapjuicer06
11-29-2011, 02:39 PM
Because Orlando wont let him walk, its pretty common knowledge that he isn't resigning there... this isn't the same as the Cavs thinking they have the inside track to Lebron until his announcement.

Otis Smith said he is NOT trading Howard in season. Howard does not have to sit around and wait for Orlando to S&T him. I can see Orlando just take their losses and take the 18 mil plut the 19 mil from cutting Gilbert and start over with the draft. I don't think the Orlando fans would be that upset. They have done everything Howard has wanted, and Howard is still going to leave. Howard is the bad guy here, not Orlando's front office.

kylem4711
11-29-2011, 02:40 PM
naw, he told me he wants to go to the clips

NYsFinest
11-29-2011, 02:41 PM
Dunno how you made this Knicks vs Nets, but whatever. Hold onto that amnesty because when Amare's knees & back go, he's going to be Eddy Curry 2.0.

Because you brought up Knicks not getting CP3....

IF his knees go... then you are right Knicks have an amnesty. But talking IFs and hoping someone gets hurt is silly, because the new CBA just provided the Knicks with insurance for Amar'e. I will enjoy the Amar'e Melo duo for now not worrying about injuries, while you can sit and pray that somehow the Nets manage to land Dwight so Deron doesn't bolt and leave your team with a soft jump shotting center named Brook Lopez on an 70 mill contract as your best player.

You still haven't answered how the Nets appeal to Orlando in a trade and provide all this cap relief though.

rapjuicer06
11-29-2011, 02:41 PM
naw, he told me he wants to go to the clips

If he's smart thats where he should go. No joke.

B2B
11-29-2011, 02:45 PM
I'm going to laugh when Orlando goes hmm...Go sign where ever you can. Were just getting **** offers for you and were not going to **** ourselves over. Best of luck Dwight

NJ/Deron. Once NJ resigns Deron they will have the cap to sign Howard as a free agent.

^ It will be Howards leverage to force a trade to a contender, it's up to Orlando to call his bluff or take the risk of him walking..

Magic need to net a rebuilding package, they are saddled with too many over aged over paid dead weight contracts that even the amnesty clause can't save them.

elonepb
11-29-2011, 02:48 PM
You still haven't answered how the Nets appeal to Orlando in a trade and provide all this cap relief though.

Yes I did, it's called cap space. The Nets can absorb contracts into the cap space as well as take back 150% of salary because they were under the cap. Lakers could only take 125% and can't absorb any players without giving back.

So you could essentially trade Dwight + Hedo for Lopez + Brooks + 2 2012 draft picks - and if the Magic amnesty Arenas, they are back in full rebuilding mode with a 20PPG center, a promising rookie (we'll see), two picks in a stockpiled draft (one of the picks is Houston's), and out of luxury tax hell for a team that is no longer going to be elite (which applies even if they got Odom and Bynum).

Of course this is Otis we're talking about.

Chill_Will_24
11-29-2011, 02:49 PM
If he's smart thats where he should go. No joke.

Agreed 100%

Good for Dwight? Check

-LA
-Warm weather
-Ability to win
-Gets ORL a good return

Good for ORL? Check

-Get back young talent
-Out of conference
-Get great 2012 picks

Good for LAC? Check

-Get Dwight... nuff said
-Cap relief

Good for the league? Check

-Dwight+Griffin= Must watch TV
-Evens out the conference since the east is getting too stacked

thedfactor
11-29-2011, 02:50 PM
Of course as a Mavericks fan it's cool to know Dwight considers Dallas an option. That said, it's a very long shot if even that. The Lakers have a far superior package to offer the Magic.

Orlando definitely has to bite on a deal including both Bynum AND Odom plus other pieces and picks OVER a Dallas offer including a re-signed Chandler, the injury-prone Roddy and parts

Would love it, but not really feasible.

elonepb
11-29-2011, 02:50 PM
Magic need to net a rebuilding package, they are saddled with too many over aged over paid dead weight contracts that even the amnesty clause can't save them.

That's why I've always thought a deal with a team with cap space makes the most sense. Like trading with the Clippers or Nets so they absorb the contracts as a tax for taking on Dwight - and end up as a non-contender, rather than having to take back almost equal salary and still being a non-contender.

Cal827
11-29-2011, 02:51 PM
Oh No! It's the worst possible front court to deal with in NBA history... the End is near.. ABANDON SHIP!

He ain't going to Dallas... they have no prospects whatsoever and no money to spend.

NYsFinest
11-29-2011, 02:52 PM
Yes I did, it's called cap space. The Nets can absorb contracts into the cap space as well as take back 150% of salary because they were under the cap. Lakers could only take 125% and can't absorb any players without giving back.

So you could essentially trade Dwight + Hedo for Lopez + Brooks + 2 2012 draft picks - and if the Magic amnesty Arenas, they are back in full rebuilding mode with a 20PPG center, a promising rookie (we'll see), two picks in a stockpiled draft (one of the picks is Houston's), and out of luxury tax hell for a team that is no longer going to be elite (which applies even if they got Odom and Bynum).

Of course this is Otis we're talking about.

You really think that Lopez on a brand new contract extension (RFA centers get paid a LOT), a promising player (laughable, would have been a 2nd round pick 2 years ago), probably 2 picks in the 20s and getting rid of Hedo is anywhere near the best Orlando can do?

slvr&blck760
11-29-2011, 02:56 PM
The Lakers need to get younger. They have the talent to trade. Welcome to "The Show" Superman!

THE GIPPER
11-29-2011, 02:57 PM
Why would he want to go to those two teams where his supporting cast has about 1-2 years left in their prime when he could go to okc, chicago, ny or brooklyn and his supporting cast would have 5-7 years left in their prime. Makes no sense.

silverbax
11-29-2011, 02:57 PM
I think it's Lakers, but Mavs would be CRAZY.

elonepb
11-29-2011, 02:58 PM
You really think that Lopez on a brand new contract extension (RFA centers get paid a LOT), a promising player (laughable, would have been a 2nd round pick 2 years ago), probably 2 picks in the 20s and getting rid of Hedo is anywhere near the best Orlando can do?

Give me a better scenario where Orlando gets rid of bad contracts, gets two 2012 draft picks, replaces 20PPG, and Dwight wants to play for the team that is trading these assets.

And again, I'm just assuming that a smart GM would realize after trading Dwight you are no longer a contender no matter who you get back. So the question is do we start over, focus on 2012 and get rid of all this luxury tax - OR do they say let's trade for equal salary, be a non-contender, acquire a 2nd round pick, and hope the fans still show up?

oak2455
11-29-2011, 02:59 PM
You really think that Lopez on a brand new contract extension (RFA centers get paid a LOT), a promising player (laughable, would have been a 2nd round pick 2 years ago), probably 2 picks in the 20s and getting rid of Hedo is anywhere near the best Orlando can do?

Not for Mr Howard ....they will get a better deal than the Nets can make...you guys have to remember there are some crazzy azzzz gms out there

Chi StateOfMind
11-29-2011, 03:01 PM
Why would he want to go to those two teams where his supporting cast has about 1-2 years left in their prime when he could go to okc, chicago, ny or brooklyn and his supporting cast would have 5-7 years left in their prime. Makes no sense.

Cuz he's stupid. If he ends up with either of those two teams, he will be in the same situation in a few years. Go to OKC-NY-CHI-MIA, a team that is young and can compete for a long time.

Baller1
11-29-2011, 03:01 PM
It's not the best but Roddy still has the potential to develop into a 20 ppg scorer and Jones has some upside as well.

I understand that, but Roddy is still nothing more than a project with talent, and Orlando is not going to part with Dwight in a trade unless they're getting a surefire star or and abundance of great young talent in return.

Roddy seems pretty overrated personally, I haven't seen anything form him worth being excited about.

Chi StateOfMind
11-29-2011, 03:02 PM
If I was Howard I would wanna go to OKC or CHI.

HouRealCoach
11-29-2011, 03:03 PM
I HIGHLY doubt that this is true

THE GIPPER
11-29-2011, 03:03 PM
Cuz he's stupid. If he ends up with either of those two teams, he will be in the same situation in a few years. Go to OKC-NY-CHI-MIA, a team that is young and can compete for a long time.

Exactly. Either dwight is stupid or rich bucher is making this up.

Chi StateOfMind
11-29-2011, 03:08 PM
Exactly. Either dwight is stupid or rich bucher is making this up.

I know most will think Im a homer but Bulls have a dominant PG, a defensive guru in thibs. OKC has Durant and westbrook. NY has Melo and Stat. Miami has Bron and Wade.

Lakers will have Kobe for no more then like 3 years if that. Mavs have Dirk for a couple of years. If u wanna win head to one of the teams that can win for a long time.

B2B
11-29-2011, 03:08 PM
That's why I've always thought a deal with a team with cap space makes the most sense. Like trading with the Clippers or Nets so they absorb the contracts as a tax for taking on Dwight - and end up as a non-contender, rather than having to take back almost equal salary and still being a non-contender.

Ideally I assume that is what Orlando would want considering their current situation. However we also have to consider what Howard wants.

Orlando has the leverage of not having to trade him to a contender Lakers who have no cap space.

Howard could walk & Join Deron/Paul on a team with cap space for both resulting in Orlando getting nothing.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Long way to go to see how this one plays out.

THE GIPPER
11-29-2011, 03:09 PM
I know most will think Im a homer but Bulls have a dominant PG, a defensive guru in thibs. OKC has Durant and westbrook. NY has Melo and Stat. Miami has Bron and Wade.

Lakers will have Kobe for no more then like 3 years if that. Mavs have Dirk for a couple of years. If u wanna win head to one of the teams that can win for a long time.

Not homerish at all. It simply makes sense. Rose/Dwight or Durant/Dwight would dominate the league for years along with miami.

elonepb
11-29-2011, 03:10 PM
I HIGHLY doubt that this is true

It's not I posted the audio. He said those are the two places he can SEE Dwight playing as possibilities.

Baller1
11-29-2011, 03:10 PM
Obviously it's not as simple as you guys are making it out to be, but I do agree nonetheless. If Dwight was concerned with winning, then why in hell would he not go to OKC, Chicago, or NY. Doesn't make much sense to me...

But like I said, it isn't as simple as many of you seem to think it is.

Chi StateOfMind
11-29-2011, 03:14 PM
OKC to me is the BEST place for him. Followed by Chicago, Miami and NY.

Chi StateOfMind
11-29-2011, 03:15 PM
I just can't wait for the NBA to start and then the NBA forum will blow up even more when free agency starts.

beliges
11-29-2011, 03:15 PM
I know most will think Im a homer but Bulls have a dominant PG, a defensive guru in thibs. OKC has Durant and westbrook. NY has Melo and Stat. Miami has Bron and Wade.

Lakers will have Kobe for no more then like 3 years if that. Mavs have Dirk for a couple of years. If u wanna win head to one of the teams that can win for a long time.

Orlando will not trade him to an Eastern Conference team because that would just be dumb. And as for the Lakers. If Dwight came to LA, he would win a few chips with Kobe still there, and after Kobe retires, Dwight would be the cornerstone of the greatest NBA franchise of all time. Thats why he wants to come to LA. Playing and winning in LA gives you more notoriety than pplaying and winning anywhere else except maybe NY. On top of that, Lakers have the only young big man that Orlando would want in Bynum.

iggypop123
11-29-2011, 03:17 PM
that was not what he said. he thinks thats where he thinks he ends up either LA or Dallas. this was based on opinion sure informed by sources but mostly opinion. completely changes the context.

Kevj77
11-29-2011, 03:20 PM
This is not going to stop...... The media is to blame for fans unrest.They don't help. Last year the Melo situation wouldn't have been as bad if the media didn't ask him about it every day and flat out report rumors like news.

They are going to do the same with Howard now.

JOSKOMANG4
11-29-2011, 03:23 PM
Magic acquire C B.Haywood, SF C.Butler, SG J.Terry, & 2012 & 2013 1st rd pick from Mavericks in exchanged for SF H.Turkolgu & C D.Howard

Mavericks Lineup:

C- Howard/Mahimni
PF- Dirk/Marion(6th man)/B.Cardinal(resigned)
SF- Turk/Peja(resigned)/D.Jones
SG- R.fernandez/Brewer/Beaubois
PG- Kidd/JJ Barea

Magic Lineup: Amnesty on G.Arenas

C- Haywood/Orton
PF- Bass/R.Anderson/Harper
SF- Butler/Clark/Liggins
SG- Terry/Q/Reddick
PG- J.Nelson/C.Duhon

rapjuicer06
11-29-2011, 03:29 PM
Magic acquire C B.Haywood, SF C.Butler, SG J.Terry, & 2012 & 2013 1st rd pick from Mavericks in exchanged for SF H.Turkolgu & C D.Howard

Mavericks Lineup:

C- Howard/Mahimni
PF- Dirk/Marion(6th man)/B.Cardinal(resigned)
SF- Turk/Peja(resigned)/D.Jones
SG- R.fernandez/Brewer/Beaubois
PG- Kidd/JJ Barea

Magic Lineup: Amnesty on G.Arenas

C- Haywood/Orton
PF- Bass/R.Anderson/Harper
SF- Butler/Clark/Liggins
SG- Terry/Q/Reddick
PG- J.Nelson/C.Duhon

:win: you just won with the worst offer yet! Congrats!

ichitownclowni
11-29-2011, 03:29 PM
Lakers dont have much to offer he would be in the same situation hes in in orlando

THE GIPPER
11-29-2011, 03:33 PM
Magic acquire C B.Haywood, SF C.Butler, SG J.Terry, & 2012 & 2013 1st rd pick from Mavericks in exchanged for SF H.Turkolgu & C D.Howard

Mavericks Lineup:

C- Howard/Mahimni
PF- Dirk/Marion(6th man)/B.Cardinal(resigned)
SF- Turk/Peja(resigned)/D.Jones
SG- R.fernandez/Brewer/Beaubois
PG- Kidd/JJ Barea

Magic Lineup: Amnesty on G.Arenas

C- Haywood/Orton
PF- Bass/R.Anderson/Harper
SF- Butler/Clark/Liggins
SG- Terry/Q/Reddick
PG- J.Nelson/C.Duhon

:facepalm:

BigCityofDreams
11-29-2011, 03:38 PM
Lakers dont have much to offer he would be in the same situation hes in in orlando

*looks at the Orlando Magic roster*

3mikee_
11-29-2011, 03:40 PM
LOL.. say word I didn't know that Orlando had another Kobe... :S

rapjuicer06
11-29-2011, 03:41 PM
*looks at the Orlando Magic roster*

Look at the Lakers roster when Kobe retires...complete ****

Chi StateOfMind
11-29-2011, 03:41 PM
Orlando will not trade him to an Eastern Conference team because that would just be dumb. And as for the Lakers. If Dwight came to LA, he would win a few chips with Kobe still there, and after Kobe retires, Dwight would be the cornerstone of the greatest NBA franchise of all time. Thats why he wants to come to LA. Playing and winning in LA gives you more notoriety than pplaying and winning anywhere else except maybe NY. On top of that, Lakers have the only young big man that Orlando would want in Bynum.

U keep sayin that ORL wouldn't trade him to the East but i beg to differ. I completely understand why they shouldn't but if ORL gets an offer from a team that they can't refuse, then why not.

The_Jamal
11-29-2011, 03:41 PM
OKC has the best pieces that would actually interest Orlando. Something like Westbrook, Perkins and Ibaka for Howard+whatever blows any offer away that the Lakers, Bulls, Mavs etc could make

ddhulett
11-29-2011, 03:45 PM
I'm going to laugh when Orlando goes hmm...Go sign where ever you can. Were just getting **** offers for you and were not going to **** ourselves over. Best of luck Dwight

Just like Carmelo? Nobody wants to trade for someone who won't resign with them.

rapjuicer06
11-29-2011, 03:47 PM
OKC has the best pieces that would actually interest Orlando. Something like Westbrook, Perkins and Ibaka for Howard+whatever blows any offer away that the Lakers, Bulls, Mavs etc could make

The only thing with that is it'd blow up the starting line up for the Thunder...They'd be dumb not to, but it'd be hard to part with those players for them I'd think

rapjuicer06
11-29-2011, 03:48 PM
Just like Carmelo? Nobody wants to trade for someone who won't resign with them.

How in the hell is that just like Carmelo?

beliges
11-29-2011, 03:48 PM
U keep sayin that ORL wouldn't trade him to the East but i beg to differ. I completely understand why they shouldn't but if ORL gets an offer from a team that they can't refuse, then why not.

Yea of course, but they are not gonna get a better deal from an Eastern team. Chicago is not gonna trade Rose and Miami will not trade LBJ. What else does that leave? Orlando will want a good young big man in return for Dwight for obvious reasons. I dont think theres a better young big man than Bynum and the Lakers would be willing to give Bynum up.

SaimuKala
11-29-2011, 03:49 PM
Gasol & Bynum for Howard & Arenas

beliges
11-29-2011, 03:51 PM
Gasol & Bynum for Howard & Arenas

Lakers will not give up both Gasol and Bynum. A potential deal will probably look like Bynum + draft picks+ fillers (maybe Lamar)

ddhulett
11-29-2011, 03:51 PM
How in the hell is that just like Carmelo?

my bad I read it wrong. I would think Orlando wants something for him? I don't see them letting him just go as a free agent just like they did with Shaq.

JordansBulls
11-29-2011, 03:52 PM
Don't understand why he his top choices would be to go places where the stars there have won titles as the man. He should want to create his own legacy where he is the guy who is responsible for the team winning.

Gibby23
11-29-2011, 03:53 PM
Look at the Lakers roster when Kobe retires...complete ****

Did you know the Lakers won a title, rebuilt, won some more titles, rebuilt, and won some more titles and in the same span Orland had 0. Players want to come to the lakers for that reason, it is because they win and when they dont, they rebuild quicker than any other team and are back to winning.

ddhulett
11-29-2011, 03:54 PM
Lakers will not give up both Gasol and Bynum. A potential deal will probably look like Bynum + draft picks+ fillers (maybe Lamar)

If Bynum wasn't so injury prone I might not do that but I would give up Gasol and Bynum for Howard if that's the only deal that would work.

BigCityofDreams
11-29-2011, 03:54 PM
Look at the Lakers roster when Kobe retires...complete ****

How many yrs until he retires though it won't be anytime soon :)

ddhulett
11-29-2011, 03:56 PM
Don't understand why he his top choices would be to go places where the stars there have won titles as the man. He should want to create his own legacy where he is the guy who is responsible for the team winning.

Owners- Cuban and Buss do whatever it takes and they do it well.

kdspurman
11-29-2011, 04:00 PM
Most unstoppable front court ever?

Dwight with the best rebounding and low post strength with the best shooter and possibly scorer in the NBA?

Duncan and Robinson say hi :)

rapjuicer06
11-29-2011, 04:04 PM
Did you know the Lakers won a title, rebuilt, won some more titles, rebuilt, and won some more titles and in the same span Orland had 0. Players want to come to the lakers for that reason, it is because they win and when they dont, they rebuild quicker than any other team and are back to winning.

Doing that with just the MLE might limit that a bit

J4KOP99
11-29-2011, 04:06 PM
It amazes me how many people are forgetting how good the Lakers are. Forget all of these Dwight rumors... people are making ridiculous claims about the Lakers.

GhostfaceDrilla
11-29-2011, 04:07 PM
I understand that, but Roddy is still nothing more than a project with talent, and Orlando is not going to part with Dwight in a trade unless they're getting a surefire star or and abundance of great young talent in return.

Roddy seems pretty overrated personally, I haven't seen anything form him worth being excited about.

Well his 40 point game vs GS showed his offensive skillset (even though 1 game out of hundreds is nothing). He has had a few Dwyane Wade like blocks which shows his athleticism, he's had some great dunks and alley oops through traffic, he was the only rookie ever to shoot 40-50-90. After he was hurt, he put up a consitent 8-15 points a night in limited play. Of course now he is playing behind Jason Kidd and Jason Terry so his time will be limited but once he gets an oppurtunity (maybe taking JET's place when he is finished) he will show his talent.

iggypop123
11-29-2011, 04:25 PM
Don't understand why he his top choices would be to go places where the stars there have won titles as the man. He should want to create his own legacy where he is the guy who is responsible for the team winning.

lol says the guy with the howard in a bulls uniform avatar. where the franchises legacy has already been created.
well i think its just practical. good franchises that have won are good now. he just wants to win. and as the big man im sure he thinks the narrative will write itself and he will be given credit to not in a lebron way where its going to be wade lead the team to the title.

JordansBulls
11-29-2011, 04:27 PM
Owners- Cuban and Buss do whatever it takes and they do it well.

I realize that, but why go to teams that still have their stars who have won in place. Shouldn't your goal be to be the best? But how are you being the best taking the easy way out playing with proven winners already?

ddhulett
11-29-2011, 04:35 PM
I realize that, but why go to teams that still have their stars who have won in place. Shouldn't your goal be to be the best? But how are you being the best taking the easy way out playing with proven winners already?

I agree with you on this that's why I would have rather seen Lebron go to the Bulls or someone else because Wade had already won without him.

Howard is younger and I wouldn't be surprised if he had another 7-10 good years in him. Kobe and Dirk will be done before long so I can see him winning now and in the future without those guys. I'm sure being with the Magic and noticing that it's not that easy unless you have the right pieces in place.

The Magic have spent the money but they didn't do it wisely

desertlakeshow
11-29-2011, 04:37 PM
Overrides ones ability to be the man.

Winning the Championship is a team effort, upper management being part of the team as well.

Hellcrooner
11-29-2011, 04:44 PM
ok so what do you prefer, haywood or chandler + x vs gasol or bynum + x


wellcome to l.a dwight!!!!

Lakers + Giants
11-29-2011, 05:55 PM
Dwight, Gasol, and Kobe! Woo.

Assuming it's for drew, we can still bring LO off the bench, unless its drew+LO.

Bruno
11-29-2011, 06:38 PM
Dallas can't possibly match what Chicago or LA can give for Howard.

Skizzik
11-29-2011, 07:02 PM
Look...the Magic traded for Arenas on purpose. I would offer them Haywood for Howard straight up. I'm sure they'd take it.

gwrighter
11-29-2011, 07:06 PM
Look...the Magic traded for Arenas on purpose. I would offer them Haywood for Howard straight up. I'm sure they'd take it.

you have to be joking.

imagesrdecievin
11-29-2011, 07:18 PM
Isn't Bynum due to make around 17 million this year? Then doesn't he have a player option the following year?

So I don't understand how an incredibly injury prone player on a huge contract who the magic would control for two years (in a best case scenario) is really that attractive of an asset for Orlando?

Sandman
11-29-2011, 07:23 PM
Both of these teams better start clearing cap space then, because I see little chance the Magic send him anywhere when the only two teams he supposedly wants to go to can't sign him outright.

Sandman
11-29-2011, 07:23 PM
Isn't Bynum due to make around 17 million this year? Then doesn't he have a player option the following year?

So I don't understand how an incredibly injury prone player on a huge contract who the magic would control for two years (in a best case scenario) is really that attractive of an asset for Orlando?
Of course its not an attractive asset, but there are a lot of Laker fans wearing their *** as a hat.

gwrighter
11-29-2011, 07:26 PM
All LA has to offer are expiring players(Bynum, Odom)

who's going to want to sign in a Howard-less ORL the following season?(both guys are going to walk) Nobody. so why would ORL trade for them? Cap space? Well doesn't get them very far without young assets to compliment the acquired space.

Factor in those two players would make ORL a decent squad and hinder their chance at receiving a high pick in 2012 draft thus limiting the young assets they could obtain. Sorry LA fans but as a fan of a rebuilding team, you guys have nobody of interest for a rebuilding squad. I doubt Otis is going to go for mediocrity.

Mavs.... Realistic options coming back are not as great as the ones The Raptors could offer.

Jonas Val, Ed Davis, (Bayless?) + 2012 draft pick + future 1sts > Beaubois, Fernandez, Corey Brewer + draft pick(s)

We would essentially be trading our rebuild for Orlando's Star giving Orlando a chance to pick up where we left off which is stockpiling players with potential.

Gibby23
11-29-2011, 07:41 PM
Isn't Bynum due to make around 17 million this year? Then doesn't he have a player option the following year?

So I don't understand how an incredibly injury prone player on a huge contract who the magic would control for two years (in a best case scenario) is really that attractive of an asset for Orlando?

Bynum has a team option, so the team can cut him after this year. It's like a big expiring contract.

Gibby23
11-29-2011, 07:42 PM
All LA has to offer are expiring players(Bynum, Odom)

who's going to want to sign in a Howard-less ORL the following season?(both guys are going to walk) Nobody. so why would ORL trade for them? Cap space? Well doesn't get them very far without young assets to compliment the acquired space.

Factor in those two players would make ORL a decent squad and hinder their chance at receiving a high pick in 2012 draft thus limiting the young assets they could obtain. Sorry LA fans but as a fan of a rebuilding team, you guys have nobody of interest for a rebuilding squad. I doubt Otis is going to go for mediocrity.

Mavs.... Realistic options coming back are not as great as the ones The Raptors could offer.

Jonas Val, Ed Davis, (Bayless?) + 2012 draft pick + future 1sts > Beaubois, Fernandez, Corey Brewer + draft pick(s)

We would essentially be trading our rebuild for Orlando's Star giving Orlando a chance to pick up where we left off which is stockpiling players with potential.


0% chance Howard is playing for the raps.

gwrighter
11-29-2011, 07:55 PM
0% chance Howard is playing for the raps.

New CBA, New opportunities. Being a hater doesn't count as a reason as to why he the Raptors are out of consideration even though we have a competitive offer.

Kevj77
11-29-2011, 08:00 PM
If Howard is serious about opting out after this season he could go as a free agent to the Clippers to play with Gordan and Griffen. Also he could team up with Deron in NJ. Orlando better think about getting something if he really has made up his mind to leave. Damn the Clippers could actually win a championship if he signed with them as a free agent. He wants to be in LA right.

Tony_Starks
11-29-2011, 08:02 PM
If Dwight starts getting frustrated and Otis see's the inevitable then he will deal him before letting him walk. If Dwight truly wants to come to LA then he'll make it happen. Getting back a young center that has been basically a double double guy as a 4rth option is waaaay better than nothing at all or just contracts........

Byronicle
11-29-2011, 08:03 PM
if Orlando was smart, they trade with a team that would offer them rebuilding pieces since they are stuck with a crap load of bad contracts

neither of these teams will give them rebuilding assets, just more long term contract

Kevj77
11-29-2011, 08:05 PM
New CBA, New opportunities. Being a hater doesn't count as a reason as to why he the Raptors are out of consideration even though we have a competitive offer.Will he sign an extension in Toronto? If not it doesn't matter if they can offer more. The Raptors won't make their best offer in that case.

Tony_Starks
11-29-2011, 08:06 PM
New CBA, New opportunities. Being a hater doesn't count as a reason as to why he the Raptors are out of consideration even though we have a competitive offer.


I hate to break it to you but I've never heard in the history of Torronto or basketball of a superstar that had Torronto as a top destination on their wish list. If you really think Howard would prefer to play in Torronto with scrubs over LA LA land with Kobe then you're clearly delusional.......

Nets/Raiders!
11-29-2011, 08:28 PM
Welcome to Dallas Dwight! Because we are not giving Tyson Chandler Dwight Howard money.

Sandman
11-29-2011, 08:38 PM
New CBA, New opportunities. Being a hater doesn't count as a reason as to why he the Raptors are out of consideration even though we have a competitive offer.
:whistle::cricket:

If Howard is serious about opting out after this season he could go as a free agent to the Clippers to play with Gordan and Griffen. Also he could team up with Deron in NJ. Orlando better think about getting something if he really has made up his mind to leave. Damn the Clippers could actually win a championship if he signed with them as a free agent. He wants to be in LA right.
These are the two scenarios I'm worried about.

And if you're the Magic, they're the only two you're worried about, at the moment, because they're the only options on the table out of their control.

If Dwight starts getting frustrated and Otis see's the inevitable then he will deal him before letting him walk. If Dwight truly wants to come to LA then he'll make it happen. Getting back a young center that has been basically a double double guy as a 4rth option is waaaay better than nothing at all or just contracts........
I'm not sure its better than nothing at all. Bynum doesn't fit as a young trade asset or rebuilding piece because he has been damaged goods most of his career, and while he's young, he's on his second contract already, making a lot of money, and hes not even signed long term.

if Orlando was smart, they trade with a team that would offer them rebuilding pieces since they are stuck with a crap load of bad contracts

neither of these teams will give them rebuilding assets, just more long term contract
:clap: this

But still, they shouldn't trade Howard until they're worried about one of the teams Howard can walk to. LA or Dallas aren't threats yet.

Tony_Starks
11-29-2011, 08:44 PM
:whistle::cricket:

These are the two scenarios I'm worried about.

And if you're the Magic, they're the only two you're worried about, at the moment, because they're the only options on the table out of their control.

I'm not sure its better than nothing at all. Bynum doesn't fit as a young trade asset or rebuilding piece because he has been damaged goods most of his career, and while he's young, he's on his second contract already, making a lot of money, and hes not even signed long term.

:clap: this

But still, they shouldn't trade Howard until they're worried about one of the teams Howard can walk to. LA or Dallas aren't threats yet.


You're assuming that if Howard wants out and lets Otis know that they wouldn't trade him to the team of his choice like Denver did Melo. Being that they're relationship appears to be alot better than Melo and Denver management I think its not out of the question Otis will accomodate him if he wants out.......

Sandman
11-29-2011, 08:53 PM
You're assuming that if Howard wants out and lets Otis know that they wouldn't trade him to the team of his choice like Denver did Melo. Being that they're relationship appears to be alot better than Melo and Denver management I think its not out of the question Otis will accomodate him if he wants out.......
Thats not exactly how the Melo situation went down. Denver didn't do Melo a favor, Melo was able to force his way to NY. Melo said he would only sign an extension with the Knicks, and the Knicks had the space to sign him outright in the off-season. Thats something the Lakers won't have.

For the Lakers to have any chance, the Magic would have to have real concerns about Howard walking to a team with the cap room to sign him. Then the Lakers would have to trade Odom, Bynum or Gasol for some actual pieces for a Howard trade.

        
11-29-2011, 09:11 PM
Lakers? For what? He isn't winning anything there that team is old.

GunFactor187
11-29-2011, 09:12 PM
Lakers? For what? He isn't winning anything there that team is old.

I gotta say man, you've got the most amazing username of ALL-TIME!

Hunter48MVP
11-29-2011, 09:13 PM
Dirk and Howard...damn...

:speechless: :hide: describes these two monster if they were ever in the same team

        
11-29-2011, 09:15 PM
I gotta say man, you've got the most amazing username of ALL-TIME!

I borrowed it from another user :whistle:

Tony_Starks
11-29-2011, 09:18 PM
Thats not exactly how the Melo situation went down. Denver didn't do Melo a favor, Melo was able to force his way to NY. Melo said he would only sign an extension with the Knicks, and the Knicks had the space to sign him outright in the off-season. Thats something the Lakers won't have.

For the Lakers to have any chance, the Magic would have to have real concerns about Howard walking to a team with the cap room to sign him. Then the Lakers would have to trade Odom, Bynum or Gasol for some actual pieces for a Howard trade.


The Nets had a package of comparable talent and were willing to gamble on him like they did with D Williams. Actually I would've took the Nets deal instead because it also had a high draft pick. So they did accomodate him and fleeced the Knicks in so doing.

Also Lakers have player options on LO and Bynum so if they were to not pick them up and amnesty Metta World Peace technically they could make another run this year and then sign Howard outright, albeit for less.....

DLCK
11-29-2011, 09:26 PM
I think its hilarious everyone gets defensive and starts typing out their own scenarios just to try to discourage others hopes. Bottom line with out tampering they put it out there he wants to play in Dal or LA.. And if Orlandos smart they trade to get something back.I dont think their fan base nor the franchise wants to go thru another 5-7 year rebuild . Either way thx for the great read guys lmao

Kevj77
11-29-2011, 09:29 PM
Thats not exactly how the Melo situation went down. Denver didn't do Melo a favor, Melo was able to force his way to NY. Melo said he would only sign an extension with the Knicks, and the Knicks had the space to sign him outright in the off-season. Thats something the Lakers won't have.

For the Lakers to have any chance, the Magic would have to have real concerns about Howard walking to a team with the cap room to sign him. Then the Lakers would have to trade Odom, Bynum or Gasol for some actual pieces for a Howard trade.If he lets it be known he will opt out and LAC and NJ are teams he would sign with, he could give Orlando the chance to trade him to a team of his choice like LAL or Dallas. Then Orlando would be able to get them to outbid eachother. Nobody will trade for Howard without an extension, it kills whatever better deals they can get. Howard can definately do what Melo did if he wants or would he rather play out his contract like Lebron.

I don't see him asking for a sign and trade to NJ or LAC when he could sign as a free agent without costing them any talent. This is the worst possible scenario for Orlando.

rapjuicer06
11-29-2011, 09:31 PM
If Orlando can trade for expirings and cut Arenas they could very well be in the mix to sign Howard and Paul/Williams....Biiiiiig if though

Lets say Orlando trades for Kaman, some how...and trades Nelson for Felton. That's 20 extra million expiring after the season, and take away Arenas' 19 million and Dwights 18 million....that's a lot of money gone, lets just put it at that

boots2asses
11-29-2011, 09:46 PM
Because unlike those teams the lakers always have a star player an in 2014 almost every contract will be on it's last year or expired including paus and kobes. Dwight doesn't have to worry about the lakers getting him help he will get it one way or another

LAKERMANIA
11-29-2011, 09:47 PM
Kobe, Gasol and Howard... wow

mdm692
11-29-2011, 09:49 PM
This is not going to stop...... The media is to blame for fans unrest.

So if other teams are interested in superstars you blame the media etc. But when the Miami Heat is interested in other superstars without giving Lebron or Wade you should set it on stone right??

:facepalm:

rapjuicer06
11-29-2011, 09:50 PM
If Orlando cuts Gilbert, trades Jameer Nelson to the Blazzers for Raymond Felton and then trades JJ Redick and Brandon Bass to the Cavs for Jamison...they could easily sign Howard along with Williams or Paul....Food for thought...and those trades are fair as well, and keeps Orlando in contention this year...Interesting

boots2asses
11-29-2011, 09:51 PM
Sorry but as a lakers fan I'll pass we would lost 5-7 more games if that happened I'll do Bynum and LO for Dwight and turk but not both pau and Bynum

boots2asses
11-29-2011, 09:53 PM
Ask Lebron that question... Hahaha

LA_Raiders
11-29-2011, 09:56 PM
LA or Dallas? Dallas has a sorry *** weather. He is coming to LA...

boots2asses
11-29-2011, 09:59 PM
Hahaha look at Dallas they are older and they still won last year. Age doesn't matter the lakers were to injured and tired but this is a new year with new opportunity for the rejuvenated lakers

gwrighter
11-29-2011, 10:24 PM
I hate to break it to you but I've never heard in the history of Torronto or basketball of a superstar that had Torronto as a top destination on their wish list. If you really think Howard would prefer to play in Torronto with scrubs over LA LA land with Kobe then you're clearly delusional.......

Dwight is still semi young with a lot of life left in his body. Kobe on the other hand is almost at the end of his career. Playing in LA is a short term opportunity.

It's called persuasion. We ask Deron if hel sign with us if we trade for Dwight. If deron agrees then we tell Dwight that deron will sign if he accepts an extension. We maintain our core pieces with A budding player in Derozan and legit 3rd option in Bargs. Those 4 pieces push the raptors into contention for the next 5 seasons. As opposed to LA which would be 3 max & Dal which would be a similarly small number.

We can offer Dwight contention while offering Orlando an advanced rebuilding opportunity.

Jewelz0376
11-29-2011, 10:26 PM
Get it done Mitch!!

69centers
11-29-2011, 10:28 PM
Bucher is a joke. Name one big story he broke last year?

Byronicle
11-29-2011, 10:32 PM
:whistle::cricket:

:clap: this

But still, they shouldn't trade Howard until they're worried about one of the teams Howard can walk to. LA or Dallas aren't threats yet.

thing is, you gave the "cricket" to a guy i agree with. only the raptors can give them something they want

a guy acc: B2B called this out, that the raptors have the assets that Orlando would need. Orlando would need a center to replace Howard, plus a PF which they haven't had in the longest time. Raptors can offer this in a young center (JonasV projected 3rd pick), a young proven pf Ed Davis (double double, defender, was projected 5th pick but drop due to injury) and that they can offer future 1st round picks.

Dwight wants to win? If he goes to any team, that would most likely mean they will have to break up their starting lineup. Raptors only give up talent in depth, not starters. Raptors have theoretically $24million in cap space to sign a big Free agents in 2012 (with the help of Dwight Howard to lure them to Toronto)

players not wanting to come up to toronto is a muse created by the media. kemba walker, ncaa champ was asked if he heard of this and he responded heard of what? players will go anywhere to win, teams trading Howard want young assets in return. Raptors can offer both of these and have future cap space in 2012 to improve even more

Already raptors with Howard > Orlando with howard

DLCK
11-29-2011, 10:34 PM
I love how people limit players lifespan with no gradual decline. "player A has about 3 years left" So if Player b wants to win now with player A he only has 3 years"

GREATNESS ONE
11-29-2011, 10:51 PM
Kobe, Gasol and Howard... wow

:nod::win:

JordansBulls
11-29-2011, 11:04 PM
This was the same guy who said Kobe would never play another game in a Laker uniform in 2007.

albertc86
11-29-2011, 11:07 PM
Howard and Dirk on the same team is scary.

Dade County
11-29-2011, 11:15 PM
So if other teams are interested in superstars you blame the media etc. But when the Miami Heat is interested in other superstars without giving Lebron or Wade you should set it on stone right??

:facepalm:

I really would like to fire back at you... But I really don't no what you are trying to*say.

Sorry.

The media just throws these stories/rumors out their " Sources"... AND THEY DON"T STOP, causing those teams fans to eventually lash out.

It would be nice if a player just comes out and says this. ( But I know that will not happen)

Dade County
11-29-2011, 11:25 PM
thing is, you gave the "cricket" to a guy i agree with. only the raptors can give them something they want

a guy acc: B2B called this out, that the raptors have the assets that Orlando would need. Orlando would need a center to replace Howard, plus a PF which they haven't had in the longest time. Raptors can offer this in a young center (JonasV projected 3rd pick), a young proven pf Ed Davis (double double, defender, was projected 5th pick but drop due to injury) and that they can offer future 1st round picks.

Dwight wants to win? If he goes to any team, that would most likely mean they will have to break up their starting lineup. Raptors only give up talent in depth, not starters. Raptors have theoretically $24million in cap space to sign a big Free agents in 2012 (with the help of Dwight Howard to lure them to Toronto)

players not wanting to come up to toronto is a muse created by the media. kemba walker, ncaa champ was asked if he heard of this and he responded heard of what? players will go anywhere to win, teams trading Howard want young assets in return. Raptors can offer both of these and have future cap space in 2012 to improve even more

Already raptors with Howard > Orlando with howard

Theirs really nothing wrong with your post, only one thing stands out...

DOES HOWARD WANT TO PLAY IN toronto ?

Byronicle
11-29-2011, 11:37 PM
Theirs really nothing wrong with your post, only one thing stands out...

DOES HOWARD WANT TO PLAY IN toronto ?

i have a couple of friends in LA and NYC and what they tell me, actors and singers > athletes. especially singers, they are swarmed all the time. athletes are rockstars in Toronto. everything there is laissez faire, and everybody that has been i.e. Ron Artest will tell you, its a party city trying to attract the party people.

If Howard comes here, he will be treated bigger then any celebrity, he would be a rockstar but like i said earlier this whole "Ewwy its Toronto" is just something the media created, that has existed in the past but nowadays players just want to win and him coming to Toronto makes sense

Howard just wants to win. Any of the teams that were mentioned that wanted to offer trades for Howard don't make sense to Otis but also would not make sense to Howard in terms that they are trading starters i.e. gasol + bynum. its not much of a gain when a team has to trade almost or over half their starters for a single guy and do not have a great bench

Howard coming to Toronto, with the trade scenario then you are looking at

DwightHoward
Bargnani/Amir Johnson
(draft2012SF)/James Johnson
Derozan(arguably a top10 SG and has been improving drastically)/Barbosa
Calderon/Bayless

this is a better team then

DwightHoward
Anderson/Bass
HedoTurkoglu
Richardson/Reddick
Nelson/Arenas

and to add to Dwight's incentive of coming to Toronto will most likely attract another star in the upcoming 2012 free agency, especially since Raptors got $24 million in cap space. just like the Miami heat, part of the reason why either Bosh or Lebron came was because Bosh or Lebron agreed first to join the heat

Byronicle
11-29-2011, 11:42 PM
and if you are thinking about Howard just joining a big 3, who then? Lakers will have to be giving up Gasol, no way Otis takes Bynum (injure prone) and Odom (aging)

Thunder will have zero depth if they make a trade not involving Westbrook + Durant and they are confident in their Big2

Cp3 is already hypothesized to make a Big3 with the Knicks

there are limited number of superstars therefore a limited number of "Big3s", the rest of the superstars are just going to have to make Big2s or join teams that have lots of talent already, rather then staying on a team that is degrading in talent mainly because of horrible contracts

Byronicle
11-29-2011, 11:45 PM
This was the same guy who said Kobe would never play another game in a Laker uniform in 2007.

these guys are just writing about the universal fantasy. yeah it be nasty if howard went to those teams but unrealistic.

or maybe trying to fulfill personal fantasies

TylerSL
11-30-2011, 12:00 AM
Bucher is a tool. I bet Howard goes to Boston. I mean seriously, why not go to Boston? KG and Allen will be retired yes, but you still have a few years left of Paul Peirce. You still have Rondo, if Jeff Green can blemish in the Celtics' system, then Boston has a new much younger Big 3 for the future. That would bring a whole new age of winning to Boston. I can see it happening.

gwrighter
11-30-2011, 12:10 AM
I love how people limit players lifespan with no gradual decline. "player A has about 3 years left" So if Player b wants to win now with player A he only has 3 years"

I'm assuming that statement was in response to mine. Poster's were saying that a draw for Dwight to LA was Kobe. My response was how much time does Kobe have left to play at an elite level? Even though he's only 33 he has a lot of mileage on his body and like we saw during last playoffs he's become more reliant on his team to carry him. Dwight is still 25 just entering his prime. To play with Kobe would make no sense in terms of longevity, as a player would want the biggest window of opportunity to win a championship...Not a small one to fulfill the prophecy of kobe getting a 6th ring.

LA and Dal are both aging rosters. Raptors are young with better pieces to benefit ORL in the potential rebuild. Raptors can then use Dwight as a draw for other potential FA's(DWill/CP3) as we have the cap space to sign another star player outright.

gwrighter
11-30-2011, 12:16 AM
Theirs really nothing wrong with your post, only one thing stands out...

DOES HOWARD WANT TO PLAY IN toronto ?

He can be convinced the same way LBJ and Bosh were convinced to play in MIA.

Ask DWill if he'l sign with the Raps if we obtain Howard. If yes, tell Howard that DWill will sign if Howard accepts an extension. We can provide ORL with assets without gutting our Starting line.

Jonas Val, Ed Davis, Bayless, + future 1sts(negotiable) for Dwight Howard. We can absorb the difference in salaries. We can then Amnesty Calderon to free up cap space for DWill.

2012-2013 Starting Line:

Dwill
Derozan
FA(draft pick)
Bargnani
Dwight Howard

Bargnani/Dwight compliment each other perfectly. Bargnani stretches the floor with his 3pt. shooting allowing Howard a lot of room to operate down low. Howard is the best defender in the league that can easily cover for Bargnani's mistakes even tho he is a good on ball defender but I digress.

Derozan on his way to becoming an elite SG that will provide the slashing. Casey as defensive mastermind, uses flow offense putting a lot of the offensive responsibility on the PG. Both Howard and DWill become the centre of the team allowing everybody else to play off them.

That's a contending starting 5 right there with clearly defined roles.

Avenged
11-30-2011, 12:24 AM
Kobe, Gasol and Howard... wow

One can only dream..

Iodine
11-30-2011, 12:25 AM
Iodine: Dwight Howard wants to come to the party....... in my pants

Chill_Will_24
11-30-2011, 12:49 AM
He can be convinced the same way LBJ and Bosh were convinced to play in MIA.

Ask DWill if he'l sign with the Raps if we obtain Howard. If yes, tell Howard that DWill will sign if Howard accepts an extension. We can provide ORL with assets without gutting our Starting line.

Jonas Val, Ed Davis, Bayless, + future 1sts(negotiable) for Dwight Howard. We can absorb the difference in salaries. We can then Amnesty Calderon to free up cap space for DWill.

2012-2013 Starting Line:

Dwill
Derozan
FA(draft pick)
Bargnani
Dwight Howard

Bargnani/Dwight compliment each other perfectly. Bargnani stretches the floor with his 3pt. shooting allowing Howard a lot of room to operate down low. Howard is the best defender in the league that can easily cover for Bargnani's mistakes even tho he is a good on ball defender but I digress.

Derozan on his way to becoming an elite SG that will provide the slashing. Casey as defensive mastermind, uses flow offense putting a lot of the offensive responsibility on the PG. Both Howard and DWill become the centre of the team allowing everybody else to play off them.

That's a contending starting 5 right there with clearly defined roles.

I just.. i mean... what can i say?... well.. :sigh:

Dade County
11-30-2011, 01:23 AM
i have a couple of friends in LA and NYC and what they tell me, actors and singers > athletes. especially singers, they are swarmed all the time. athletes are rockstars in Toronto. everything there is laissez faire, and everybody that has been i.e. Ron Artest will tell you, its a party city trying to attract the party people.

If Howard comes here, he will be treated bigger then any celebrity, he would be a rockstar but like i said earlier this whole "Ewwy its Toronto" is just something the media created, that has existed in the past but nowadays players just want to win and him coming to Toronto makes sense

Howard just wants to win. Any of the teams that were mentioned that wanted to offer trades for Howard don't make sense to Otis but also would not make sense to Howard in terms that they are trading starters i.e. gasol + bynum. its not much of a gain when a team has to trade almost or over half their starters for a single guy and do not have a great bench

Howard coming to Toronto, with the trade scenario then you are looking at

DwightHoward
Bargnani/Amir Johnson
(draft2012SF)/James Johnson
Derozan(arguably a top10 SG and has been improving drastically)/Barbosa
Calderon/Bayless

this is a better team then

DwightHoward
Anderson/Bass
HedoTurkoglu
Richardson/Reddick
Nelson/Arenas

and to add to Dwight's incentive of coming to Toronto will most likely attract another star in the upcoming 2012 free agency, especially since Raptors got $24 million in cap space. just like the Miami heat, part of the reason why either Bosh or Lebron came was because Bosh or Lebron agreed first to join the heat

Listen..... Your biggest problem is that you really believe stars like Howard, really are going to come to toronto, and change the culture.

Humans are creatures of habit, their going to continue doing things that are known to work.

I'm sorry, I can tell you really believe in what you are writing.... But it's not going to manifest into reality.



He can be convinced the same way LBJ and Bosh were convinced to play in MIA.

What?....... Howard is his on person, you can't compare his thought process to anyone else's. ( I was almost speechless, when I read this ) I stared at the computer for like 3min.



Ask DWill if he'l sign with the Raps if we obtain Howard. If yes, tell Howard that DWill will sign if Howard accepts an extension. We can provide ORL with assets without gutting our Starting line.

What?...... If you think it works like that, then OK. How did that work out for B davis, when Elton signed with the 76'ers?



Jonas Val, Ed Davis, Bayless, + future 1sts(negotiable) for Dwight Howard. We can absorb the difference in salaries. We can then Amnesty Calderon to free up cap space for DWill.

2012-2013 Starting Line:

Dwill
Derozan
FA(draft pick)
Bargnani
Dwight Howard

Bargnani/Dwight compliment each other perfectly. Bargnani stretches the floor with his 3pt. shooting allowing Howard a lot of room to operate down low. Howard is the best defender in the league that can easily cover for Bargnani's mistakes even tho he is a good on ball defender but I digress.

Derozan on his way to becoming an elite SG that will provide the slashing. Casey as defensive mastermind, uses flow offense putting a lot of the offensive responsibility on the PG. Both Howard and DWill become the centre of the team allowing everybody else to play off them.

That's a contending starting 5 right there with clearly defined roles.

To the both of you...... Their is noting wrong with what you guys are saying...... But their is just one big problem

DOES HOWARD WANT TO PLAY IN toronto?

Their are no signs saying YES.

Dade County
11-30-2011, 01:26 AM
I just.. i mean... what can i say?... well.. :sigh:

Listen MAN... My jaw dropped.... I was speechless ( I was in, WTF county )

gwrighter
11-30-2011, 01:48 AM
I just.. i mean... what can i say?... well.. :sigh:

I have yet to hear an argument as to why this isnt a feasible scenario besides...

There is a zero chance

& He doesn't want to play there.

Those two are NOT arguments. Nobody has presented a counter argument highlighting WHY their team has a better package or why this package isnt feasible.

gwrighter
11-30-2011, 02:00 AM
Listen..... Your biggest problem is that you really believe stars like Howard, really are going to come to toronto, and change the culture.

Humans are creatures of habit, their going to continue doing things that are known to work.

Change what culture? The, "nobody likes Toronto" culture? Gimme a break with this irrational hatred for everything foreign. Put your own beliefs aside for 1 second at least and take a step back and view this from an objective stand point. Just because you don't like Toronto doesn't mean that Howard doesn't believe he can't win here with the proper roster. Not to mention "Change" has been your presidents slogan for quite some time now.


What?....... Howard is his on person, you can't compare his thought process to anyone else's. ( I was almost speechless, when I read this ) I stared at the computer for like 3min.

At first you say humans are creatures of habit & now saying that he is his own person and will decide what he wants to do separate from what others have done. Two conflicting statements don't you think? Which 1 is it?

You use each player to reel in both. MIA did the same thing with Bosh & LBJ so I don't know how you can't see the correlation.


What?...... If you think it works like that, then OK. How did that work out for B davis, when Elton signed with the 76'ers?

Worked out well for MIA when they signed Bosh and LBJ.


Two the both of you...... Their is noting wrong with what you guys are saying...... But their is just one big problem

DOES HOWARD WANT TO PLAY IN toronto?

Their are no signs saying YES.

Their are no signs saying no so that point is moot. People can be convinced, they aren't all as close minded as a lot seemingly tend to be.

Our pitch is just as good if not greater than any other being posted here.

leftie5
11-30-2011, 02:01 AM
Or Nets apparently.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7297170/sources-new-jersey-nets-prep-big-trade-offer-dwight-howard-orlando-magic

Dade County
11-30-2011, 02:21 AM
Change what culture? The, "nobody likes Toronto" culture? Gimme a break with this irrational hatred for everything foreign. Put your own beliefs aside for 1 second at least and take a step back and view this from an objective stand point. Just because you don't like Toronto doesn't mean that Howard doesn't believe he can't win here with the proper roster. Not to mention "Change" has been your presidents slogan for quite some time now.


All I got was this far.... Did you just call obama my president ( If U only knew me ) I am deeply bothered by this :mad:

Moving on:

I have no hate for Toronto... I am talking about the culture of not really proving anything in Toronto basketball existence. ( Not consistently in the playoffs, no championships... etc)

Players/humans stick with what works... and Toronto doesn't seem to work. Howard could go their, I am not going to hate on your city... But I don't see how your GM convinces him.

Their is no system their of winning, (or a coach/GM) that can say to Howard, i know how to get it done; I've done this before.

It will all be just pretty words coming out of your organization mouth.

LTBaByyy
11-30-2011, 02:28 AM
Well this is Awesome

Cal827
11-30-2011, 03:00 AM
All I got was this far.... Did you just call obama my president ( If U only knew me ) I am deeply bothered by this :mad:

Moving on:

I have no hate for Toronto... I am talking about the culture of not really proving anything in Toronto basketball existence. ( Not consistently in the playoffs, no championships... etc)

Players/humans stick with what works... and Toronto doesn't seem to work. Howard could go their, I am not going to hate on your city... But I don't see how your GM convinces him.

Their is no system their of winning, (or a coach/GM) that can say to Howard, i know how to get it done; I've done this before.

It will all be just pretty words coming out of your organization mouth.

Although I doubt he comes here to play, sometimes people make shocking decisions :D.. What if the Raps jump all the way up to an 8th seed after being so bad last year? He could be interested in joining a very young team that would maintain the core with him (since next year, they could sign him upright, Orlando wouldn't be able to dissect the roster).. I know it's homerish but I'm just sayin.

I think he ends up a Clipper or a net with CP3 or Deron though since he's friends with both and both teams have the cap to sign two of the three, therefore avoiding the dissection of the team via S&Ts (Like how Miami got Bosh/James for like two first rounders).

As I said, there's no way in Hell he becomes a Laker (Unless Otis Smith is the dumbest man alive... as I said before like 1000 times, Gasol is older and even if Bynum peaks with Orlando... you don't believe he's going to test the market next year (when he's an unrestricted from this deal). He's a center...he averages 20-10 for one year, he's going to get a near max deal from someone... with Orlando rebuilding, they probably would want to save money at this time too.

Mavs have 1 prospect (Beaubois) and they don't have assets to gain prosects (other than Dirk, which they won't trade for obvious reasons). They won't get him... but the idea of a Dirk/Howard front court is just plain scary though :p

KaganRS
11-30-2011, 03:15 AM
PLease do what the Jazz did and get rid of this media circus !

Byronicle
11-30-2011, 01:09 PM
All I got was this far.... Did you just call obama my president ( If U only knew me ) I am deeply bothered by this :mad:

Moving on:

I have no hate for Toronto... I am talking about the culture of not really proving anything in Toronto basketball existence. ( Not consistently in the playoffs, no championships... etc)

Players/humans stick with what works... and Toronto doesn't seem to work. Howard could go their, I am not going to hate on your city... But I don't see how your GM convinces him.

Their is no system their of winning, (or a coach/GM) that can say to Howard, i know how to get it done; I've done this before.

It will all be just pretty words coming out of your organization mouth.

players go to teams that want to win. it may have been like that awhile ago, but with everyone's new media tools and whats not that has changed. i hope BC acquires a superstar just to prove this. VC left because the team stunk not because its Toronto

BigCityofDreams
11-30-2011, 01:18 PM
No disrespect to anyone but I don't see how D12 would want to play for the Raptors. Like Dade County said the culture of winning just isn't there. Hopefully that changes as the talent developments. If they can change the culture it can go a long way.

ddhulett
11-30-2011, 02:17 PM
The Mavs have $34,969,310 off the books next year. I'm sure that has to be attractive to a team like the Magic.

They could also offer Roddy B, Dominique Jones who are young and have some big potential along with picks. We will see what we do with Tyson and JJ if we resign them they could be used as pieces too.

Jason Terry $11,658,000
Caron Butler $10,561,960
Jason Kidd $9,621,000
Rudy Fernandez $2,180,443
Ian Mahinmi $947,907

christexaport
12-02-2011, 09:05 PM
Dallas can't possibly match what Chicago or LA can give for Howard.

The magic of the deal (no pun intended) is that it requires the complicity of Orlando, the trading team, and the party with the MOST power, DHoward. This is because no team is going to accept a trade for him without him signing an extension.

So no matter who makes the best deal between Dallas, Los Angeles, or anyone else, even Orlando, wherever Howard wants to go, he will go. Orlando can't force him to go anywhere, because he can always refuse to sign any extension at all.

If he knows Dallas has a decent package, he can demand they work it out with them or he walks in the offseason without cooperating, leaving them with nothing. They'd have cap space, but is that worth losing a Howard? How do you spend it when no one is there to attract free agents? Imagine if this were that offseason and they had the cap space now. Who do they go get? Tyson Chandler? NeNe? Dalembert? Or what about picks, young assets, and expiring contracts to be used in future deals?

I think Orlando should be smart and begin looking for trades to the teams he wants to play for, and if those teams don't have compelling deals, seek partners for their pieces and try to get a deal done by midseason.

Confusious
12-03-2011, 03:34 AM
He can be convinced the same way LBJ and Bosh were convinced to play in MIA.

Ask DWill if he'l sign with the Raps if we obtain Howard. If yes, tell Howard that DWill will sign if Howard accepts an extension. We can provide ORL with assets without gutting our Starting line.

Jonas Val, Ed Davis, Bayless, + future 1sts(negotiable) for Dwight Howard. We can absorb the difference in salaries. We can then Amnesty Calderon to free up cap space for DWill.

2012-2013 Starting Line:

Dwill
Derozan
FA(draft pick)
Bargnani
Dwight Howard

Bargnani/Dwight compliment each other perfectly. Bargnani stretches the floor with his 3pt. shooting allowing Howard a lot of room to operate down low. Howard is the best defender in the league that can easily cover for Bargnani's mistakes even tho he is a good on ball defender but I digress.

Derozan on his way to becoming an elite SG that will provide the slashing. Casey as defensive mastermind, uses flow offense putting a lot of the offensive responsibility on the PG. Both Howard and DWill become the centre of the team allowing everybody else to play off them.

That's a contending starting 5 right there with clearly defined roles.
The only players that want to play for the Raptors are crappy players that don't care about winning and just want a nice paycheck that they would otherwise be unable to earn on other teams.

Dwight can get the same check from any team in the league. And he's going to mysteriously go to the Raptors, along with DWill? Yeah, because it was enticing enough to keep VC and Bosh there. :eyebrow:

Gagan136
12-03-2011, 03:55 AM
Orlando is gonna watch the best center in the league get taken by LA....again

last stand
12-03-2011, 04:25 AM
Don't understand why he his top choices would be to go places where the stars there have won titles as the man. He should want to create his own legacy where he is the guy who is responsible for the team winning.

yes because kobe coming after west, magic, worthy, and kareem has killed his legacy lol

last stand
12-03-2011, 04:28 AM
Isn't Bynum due to make around 17 million this year? Then doesn't he have a player option the following year?

So I don't understand how an incredibly injury prone player on a huge contract who the magic would control for two years (in a best case scenario) is really that attractive of an asset for Orlando?

no wrong. 15 million and a team option

waveycrockett
12-03-2011, 04:34 AM
Ric Bucher also was the guy who staked his reputation that Kobe to the Bulls was a done deal. He is always wrong.

last stand
12-03-2011, 04:37 AM
Ric Bucher also was the guy who staked his reputation that Kobe to the Bulls was a done deal. He is always wrong.

the lakers were going to pull the trigger if deng was in the deal, but kobe wouldn't allow deng to be in the deal.

the deal was gonna happen. being a journalist is about sources. sometimes the sources are right at the time and then things change.

OJ mayo was supposed to be a pacer and was reported as being a pacer but they missed the deadline. so he wasn't

stuff happens

waveycrockett
12-03-2011, 04:38 AM
The magic of the deal (no pun intended) is that it requires the complicity of Orlando, the trading team, and the party with the MOST power, DHoward. This is because no team is going to accept a trade for him without him signing an extension.

So no matter who makes the best deal between Dallas, Los Angeles, or anyone else, even Orlando, wherever Howard wants to go, he will go. Orlando can't force him to go anywhere, because he can always refuse to sign any extension at all.

If he knows Dallas has a decent package, he can demand they work it out with them or he walks in the offseason without cooperating, leaving them with nothing. They'd have cap space, but is that worth losing a Howard? How do you spend it when no one is there to attract free agents? Imagine if this were that offseason and they had the cap space now. Who do they go get? Tyson Chandler? NeNe? Dalembert? Or what about picks, young assets, and expiring contracts to be used in future deals?

I think Orlando should be smart and begin looking for trades to the teams he wants to play for, and if those teams don't have compelling deals, seek partners for their pieces and try to get a deal done by midseason.

Um yes it's called a rental. Exactly what the Nets got in Deron and what The Nuggets used to put the gun to the Knicks head last year with Melo. Magic would deal him as a rental before they dealt him for Roddy B and junk. Dallas is an old as hell team with zero assets outside of Dirk that a rebuilding team like the Magic would need and they have absolutely zero leverage where they could sign D12 out right because they are so far into the luxury tax.

waveycrockett
12-03-2011, 04:44 AM
the lakers were going to pull the trigger if deng was in the deal, but kobe wouldn't allow deng to be in the deal.

the deal was gonna happen. being a journalist is about sources. sometimes the sources are right at the time and then things change.

OJ mayo was supposed to be a pacer and was reported as being a pacer but they missed the deadline. so he wasn't

stuff happens

There is so many other instances where Bucher is just off the wall with Melo, Bosh, LeBron I just put him in the Chris Sheridan category of guys who say things just to be heard. The only guys who I listen to at all are Woj, Broussard, Smith they constantly have the scoop. ANd this coming from a guy who actually likes Bucher, dude is real cool on twitter.

last stand
12-03-2011, 04:55 AM
There is so many other instances where Bucher is just off the wall with Melo, Bosh, LeBron I just put him in the Chris Sheridan category of guys who say things just to be heard. The only guys who I listen to at all are Woj, Broussard, Smith they constantly have the scoop. ANd this coming from a guy who actually likes Bucher, dude is real cool on twitter.

bucher isn't a great reporter. my point is journalists rely on sources. broussard is overrated. he completely missed the boat on lebron to miami and then piggy backed of stephen A. smith.

broussard and woj. are also pretty biased IMO. stephen A. smith is the least biased of the bunch. he'll pretty much praise and attack anyone

waveycrockett
12-03-2011, 05:03 AM
bucher isn't a great reporter. my point is journalists rely on sources. broussard is overrated. he completely missed the boat on lebron to miami and then piggy backed of stephen A. smith.

broussard and woj. are also pretty biased IMO. stephen A. smith is the least biased of the bunch. he'll pretty much praise and attack anyone
Broussard and Woj are embedded in with the big time agents from CAA and other movers and shakers like WWW and Vaccarro. Broussard missed the boat on LBJ because LBJ shut out everybody except for like 5 people since somebody from CAA was leaking all that crap and making him look bad. I think Bucher is a nice dude and once upon a time he and David Aldridge ruled the scene since they had connects in FO's with the old guard but agents and players run things now and even though Broussard's was off I still trust his sources over Bucher.

Pacman
12-03-2011, 05:04 AM
I can almost see another total domination in the NBA if Howard goes to Mavs.

Wade>You
12-03-2011, 05:05 AM
With all the trash that Woj talks about LBJ and CAA, I can't imagine him having any sources with them.

waveycrockett
12-03-2011, 05:10 AM
With all the trash that Woj talks about LBJ and CAA, I can't imagine him having any sources with them.

It's not trash so much as he is exposing them for the power brokers they are. He called this Melo/Amare/CP3 thing like 2 years ago with sources inside CAA. Not saying he is cool with them but he is def paying off someone with close-ties to CAA.

Wade>You
12-03-2011, 05:11 AM
It's not trash so much as he is exposing them for the power brokers they are. He called this Melo/Amare/CP3 thing like 2 years ago with sources inside CAA. Not saying he is cool with them but he is def paying off someone with close-ties to CAA.I could definitely see that. It must be good money and someone who feels they aren't getting paid enough at CAA.

John Walls Era
12-03-2011, 05:11 AM
Don't understand why he his top choices would be to go places where the stars there have won titles as the man. He should want to create his own legacy where he is the guy who is responsible for the team winning.

Thats probably the appeal. Theres a certain prestige playing for historic franchise such as the Lakers or Celtics. Not sure why he wants to play for the Mavs, but they are the current champs.

gatkins11
12-03-2011, 02:08 PM
Thats probably the appeal. Theres a certain prestige playing for historic franchise such as the Lakers or Celtics. Not sure why he wants to play for the Mavs, but they are the current champs.

Mark Cuban is probably why.

marj987
12-03-2011, 02:43 PM
God hes overrated, but if Mark Cuban says so.

How is he overrated? No one really gave a **** when scored 40 points, he rarely gets talked about, and how was overrated last year with struggling injuries?

ink
12-03-2011, 03:34 PM
This is not going to stop...... The media is to blame for fans unrest.

I agree. They know how to pump up the tires on the bandwagons.

Hawkeye15
12-03-2011, 03:40 PM
I agree. They know how to pump up the tires on the bandwagons.

Yes they do.

Sure hope this will cause all the Bron haters to jump all over D12 for teaming up with another star. Obviously it won't, that is the complete immaturity amongst the fans, but it should. I for one could care less if D12 joins an established contender. But I am only saying that the babies out there that make such a big deal out of Bron teaming up with Wade better not forget that when Dwight teams up with either Kobe or Dirk.

beliges
12-03-2011, 03:46 PM
Yes they do.

Sure hope this will cause all the Bron haters to jump all over D12 for teaming up with another star. Obviously it won't, that is the complete immaturity amongst the fans, but it should. I for one could care less if D12 joins an established contender. But I am only saying that the babies out there that make such a big deal out of Bron teaming up with Wade better not forget that when Dwight teams up with either Kobe or Dirk.

Well there is a difference between Dwight's situation and Lebron. I guarantee you Dwight will not hold a one hour special on himself, on television, declaring to the world he is going to LA. He will now have a party before the season begins declaring that he will win 8 championships in LA. He will not go to the Lakers expecting it to be his team. He will go knowing the Lakers are Kobe and he will be playing for Kobe. He will be humble about it. Sure winning a championship in LA will not mean as much as it would winning one in Orlando where it was clearly his team, but in the long run, once Kobe finally hangs them up, he will have the keys to the franchise and he will have the opportunity to join the elite champions in Lakers history.

beliges
12-03-2011, 03:50 PM
He can be convinced the same way LBJ and Bosh were convinced to play in MIA.

Ask DWill if he'l sign with the Raps if we obtain Howard. If yes, tell Howard that DWill will sign if Howard accepts an extension. We can provide ORL with assets without gutting our Starting line.

Jonas Val, Ed Davis, Bayless, + future 1sts(negotiable) for Dwight Howard. We can absorb the difference in salaries. We can then Amnesty Calderon to free up cap space for DWill.

2012-2013 Starting Line:

Dwill
Derozan
FA(draft pick)
Bargnani
Dwight Howard

Bargnani/Dwight compliment each other perfectly. Bargnani stretches the floor with his 3pt. shooting allowing Howard a lot of room to operate down low. Howard is the best defender in the league that can easily cover for Bargnani's mistakes even tho he is a good on ball defender but I digress.

Derozan on his way to becoming an elite SG that will provide the slashing. Casey as defensive mastermind, uses flow offense putting a lot of the offensive responsibility on the PG. Both Howard and DWill become the centre of the team allowing everybody else to play off them.

That's a contending starting 5 right there with clearly defined roles.

Why would he want to play for the Nets when he has an opportunity to play for the Lakers? Not only will he guarantee himself a couple of tiltes in the next few years, but he will also guarantee himself to be the cornerstone of the Lakers for the remainder of his career when Kobe hangs them up in a few years. Seems like a no brainer in my opinion. BUT this is all depending on whether Orlando actually trades him or not, which I dont think they will.

ink
12-03-2011, 03:51 PM
Yes they do.

Sure hope this will cause all the Bron haters to jump all over D12 for teaming up with another star. Obviously it won't, that is the complete immaturity amongst the fans, but it should. I for one could care less if D12 joins an established contender. But I am only saying that the babies out there that make such a big deal out of Bron teaming up with Wade better not forget that when Dwight teams up with either Kobe or Dirk.

I still think the super team building is the absolute antithesis of sport.

The only reason these guys think it's OK is because that's all they got out of the Olympic experience they were involved in together. Man did that team-building exercise ever backfire. It doesn't get talked about but I'd say that the Beijing 2008 team marks a low point for collusion in a pro sports league. Who knows, maybe soccer can top it, I don't know. The fallout from that Beijing 2008 team was probably as far away from the original goals of an Olympic experience as you could possibly get. Only in the NBA ...

ink
12-03-2011, 03:54 PM
btw Howard was a writeoff when he started with the Superman clown act during the lameass dunk fest. :laugh2: It's unbelievable that people actually consider that sport. They even use the same props as you'd find in the circus. Think about it.

beliges
12-03-2011, 03:56 PM
I still think the super team building is the absolute antithesis of sport.

The only reason these guys think it's OK is because that's all they got out of the Olympic experience they were involved in together. Man did that team-building exercise ever backfire. It doesn't get talked about but I'd say that the Beijing 2008 team marks a low point for collusion in a pro sports league. Who knows, maybe soccer can top it, I don't know. The fallout from that Beijing 2008 team was probably as far away from the original goals of an Olympic experience as you could possibly get. Only in the NBA ...

I disagree. Its not like Dwight is joining a Lakers team with Kobe in his prime. Kobe is about 3 years away from retirement. This would be a move for the Lakers' future than anything else. Of course it helps to have Kobe there still but this is a move that equally helps the Lakers and Dwight for the next decade.

Vinylman
12-03-2011, 03:57 PM
Yes they do.

Sure hope this will cause all the Bron haters to jump all over D12 for teaming up with another star. Obviously it won't, that is the complete immaturity amongst the fans, but it should. I for one could care less if D12 joins an established contender. But I am only saying that the babies out there that make such a big deal out of Bron teaming up with Wade better not forget that when Dwight teams up with either Kobe or Dirk.

Most people don't care that LeBron teamed up with 2 perennial all-stars...

what they hate about Lebroom is the way he did it with the ******** decision telecast, his constant arrogance while not getting it done when it mattered, etc.. etc... etc...

D12 is not an arrogant prick... quite the opposite

bottom line, Howard is just exercising his rights under the CBA. He has not demanded a trade, he is competing at the highest level (see last year when he was robbed of the MVP), he is keeping a pretty low profile.

The reason this is even out there is the fact that Orlando is assessing the situation and determining if they are going to lose him they might as well get something for it.

On a side note, Howard can end up in LA if he wants even if he has to go free agent because the reality of the league is that Orlando would still do a S&T with the Lakers (see bosh and Lebroom last year).

The lack of a franchise tag in the league is the real reason all this speculation goes on. Blame the players and agents for that because the owners asked for it again and didn't get it.

Fayzon10
12-03-2011, 03:58 PM
Ummm who would Dallas send to Orlando? The lakers could send Bynum and Odom

WadeKobe
12-03-2011, 03:59 PM
This is not going to stop...... The media is to blame for fans unrest.

This.

ink
12-03-2011, 03:59 PM
I disagree. Its not like Dwight is joining a Lakers team with Kobe in his prime. Kobe is about 3 years away from retirement. This would be a move for the Lakers' future than anything else. Of course it helps to have Kobe there still but this is a move that equally helps the Lakers and Dwight for the next decade.

I didn't make the opposite point, so I'm not sure how you can be disagreeing. I'm talking about the collusion that followed the Olympics where everyone from Lebron to CP3 is now dictating who they will play with. It's the antithesis of what that Olympic team was supposed to stand for. Talk about corrupting the Games.

WadeKobe
12-03-2011, 04:03 PM
I dont really want him in LA LA land right now. I really wanna see how the Lakers do as is. Then pull a block buster if needed. I dont get the rush players have now. It's like there afraid of the Mayan prediction for 2012 and are rushing to get the most out of life now lol

LA cannot compete with Chicago or Miami right now. No way, no how. That's why the rush. It's LA. They want to be title contenders every single season. They aren't as it stands.

WadeKobe
12-03-2011, 04:04 PM
Ummm who would Dallas send to Orlando? The lakers could send Bynum and Odom

Why on earth would Orlando want that trade?

Hawkeye15
12-03-2011, 04:04 PM
Well there is a difference between Dwight's situation and Lebron. I guarantee you Dwight will not hold a one hour special on himself, on television, declaring to the world he is going to LA. He will now have a party before the season begins declaring that he will win 8 championships in LA. He will not go to the Lakers expecting it to be his team. He will go knowing the Lakers are Kobe and he will be playing for Kobe. He will be humble about it. Sure winning a championship in LA will not mean as much as it would winning one in Orlando where it was clearly his team, but in the long run, once Kobe finally hangs them up, he will have the keys to the franchise and he will have the opportunity to join the elite champions in Lakers history.

Don't start making the excuses already. There is no difference at all. He would be teaming up with another all star to get that ring. Period.

ink
12-03-2011, 04:06 PM
Don't start making the excuses already. There is no difference at all. He would be teaming up with another all star to get that ring. Period.

The only difference is that Howard is generally liked by more people. Otherwise it's the same thing as you say. Basically fixing the league to guarantee the results the stars want instead of competing honestly.

Hawkeye15
12-03-2011, 04:06 PM
within half a page my point is made lol.

"Its not the same cause Bron is a dick!"

Its the same thing fellas. The exact same thing. And it will be if Paul lands in NY. Dwight and Paul should get the same heat LeBron did. Any reply to this stating otherwise is honestly an excuse.

ink
12-03-2011, 04:08 PM
within half a page my point is made lol.

"Its not the same cause Bron is a dick!"

Its the same thing fellas. The exact same thing. And it will be if Paul lands in NY. Dwight and Paul should get the same heat LeBron did. Any reply to this stating otherwise is honestly an excuse.

It is exactly the same thing. Exactly. And yes they should get the same heat as LeBron did because there is no difference at all between what they are doing.

Evolution23
12-03-2011, 04:19 PM
within half a page my point is made lol.

"Its not the same cause Bron is a dick!"

Its the same thing fellas. The exact same thing. And it will be if Paul lands in NY. Dwight and Paul should get the same heat LeBron did. Any reply to this stating otherwise is honestly an excuse.

There is a huge difference here. These players are letting their respective teams know they want to be traded. That is allowing these teams to get back assets which Cleveland never received. Also Cleveland got humiliated on national tv. Big difference.

beliges
12-03-2011, 04:19 PM
within half a page my point is made lol.

"Its not the same cause Bron is a dick!"

Its the same thing fellas. The exact same thing. And it will be if Paul lands in NY. Dwight and Paul should get the same heat LeBron did. Any reply to this stating otherwise is honestly an excuse.

Not really. Again, Dwight will not hold a one hour special about himself where he will declare where he is going to play. He doesnt call himself CHOSEN ONE and will not say winning with the Lakers is going to be easy and that he will win 8 championships. He is not going to say that LA is now his team. He will concede to the fact that he is playing on Kobe's team for now. He will be humble about it, he wont go around being an idiot like Lebron was when he decided to play for Miami. Thats a big difference. People do not hate on Lebron for choosing to play for another team, they hate on him for all the dumb things he did and said and they hate on him even more for acting like itll be easy to win and then choking in the Finals when he had his chance. The personalities of Dwight and Lebron are very different. Sure winning a title with Kobe will not mean as much for his legacy as winning one in Orlando would have, but again, once Kobe is gone, Dwight will have a shot at being the man in LA and winning a few titles on his own.

valade16
12-03-2011, 04:22 PM
within half a page my point is made lol.

"Its not the same cause Bron is a dick!"

Its the same thing fellas. The exact same thing. And it will be if Paul lands in NY. Dwight and Paul should get the same heat LeBron did. Any reply to this stating otherwise is honestly an excuse.

One hour TV special. 8 Championships. Yeah, EXACTLY the same :rolleyes:

heyman321
12-03-2011, 04:24 PM
Please Mark Cuban GET THIS DONE!!! Dirk and Dwight would be absolutely filthy. If Howard teams up with Dirk or Kobe/Pau they are guarantees to get at least 2 championships.

ink
12-03-2011, 04:25 PM
Not really. Again, Dwight will not hold a one hour special about himself where he will declare where he is going to play. He doesnt call himself CHOSEN ONE and will not say winning with the Lakers is going to be easy and that he will win 8 championships. He is not going to say that LA is now his team. He will concede to the fact that he is playing on Kobe's team for now. He will be humble about it, he wont go around being an idiot like Lebron was when he decided to play for Miami. Thats a big difference. People do not hate on Lebron for choosing to play for another team, they hate on him for all the dumb things he did and said and they hate on him even more for acting like itll be easy to win and then choking in the Finals when he had his chance. The personalities of Dwight and Lebron are very different. Sure winning a title with Kobe will not mean as much for his legacy as winning one in Orlando would have, but again, once Kobe is gone, Dwight will have a shot at being the man in LA and winning a few titles on his own.

But you're re-enforcing Hawkeye's point since most of the factors you're listing are personal. It's personal enmity that makes people hate on LeBron but not on CP3 or Howard.

As Evolution says there are differences in that the current players are telling their teams so they can get something of value in return. But that's a pretty small point. What are the Knicks going to give NO to honestly replace CP3? What are the Lakers or Mavs going to give to replace Howard's value to Orlando? Bynum's chronic knee problems and an aging Lamar Odom? Both CP3 and Howard's teams are basically being extorted. I don't see how that will ultimately be any better than what LeBron or Bosh or Melo did. I realize there are small differences in process but the end result is those teams getting ****ed over by their star. :shrug:

Hawkeye15
12-03-2011, 04:26 PM
excuses guys. If you personally think its different because you don't like LeBron, than fine. But they are both attempting to go to a ready made contender. Its the exact same thing LeBron did. There is absolutely no difference at all.

ink
12-03-2011, 04:28 PM
excuses guys. If you personally think its different because you don't like LeBron, than fine. But they are both attempting to go to a ready made contender. Its the exact same thing LeBron did. There is absolutely no difference at all.

It's also a double standard. Either hate on all of them or slurp the stars for "prioritizing winning". lol.

beliges
12-03-2011, 04:31 PM
But you're re-enforcing Hawkeye's point since most of the factors you're listing are personal. It's personal enmity that makes people hate on LeBron but not on CP3 or Howard.

As Evolution says there are differences in that the current players are telling their teams so they can get something of value in return. But that's a pretty small point. What are the Knicks going to give NO to honestly replace CP3? What are the Lakers or Mavs going to give to replace Howard's value to Orlando? Both CP3 and Howard's teams are basically being extorted. I don't see how that will ultimately be any better than what LeBron or Bosh or Melo did. I realize there are small differences in process but the end result is those teams getting ****ed over by their star. :shrug:

LOL...Lebron's actions are what made people hate him. This is not about hating someone because of their character in their personal life. Lebron held a ONE HR special on himself declaring where he will go play. Something that has never happened before. Usually players just get traded and go play, or they sign with a team. They dont hold one hour specials on tv about themselves. Additionally, many people (including former players) believe Lebron disrespected the GAME by making statements like "its going to be easy" and that he will win 8 championships. Furthermore, what made people lost more respect for Lebron was the fact that he choked when everyone was expecting him to rise and finally win that elusive championship. Dwight is not this type of player. People will not hate Dwight if he teams up with Kobe and the Lakers for these reasons. Of course Dwight's legacy after winning a title alongside Kobe will take a hit as opposed to him winning in Orlando, but all that can change once he becomes the cornerstone of the Lakers franchise. See people dont hate on Lebron because of his game, he is a terrific player. They hate on him for being a douchebag. And when you make statements like its going to be easy to win, and youre gonna win 8 championships, its only natural that people will root for you to fail.

beliges
12-03-2011, 04:33 PM
It's also a double standard. Either hate on all of them or slurp the stars for "prioritizing winning". lol.

Dude no. What Lebron did was something no other star player in the history of the league has done. Its completely different. If he chose to go to Miami without making a big deal of it and if he just shup up and played ball, people would not be hating on him. Do you remember before the "decision" and the ensuing party and dumb statements? Lebron was the golden boy of the league. He was beloved by EVERYONE, especially the media. He could do no wrong when he was in Cleavland. Why do you think people turned on him?

Dade County
12-03-2011, 04:33 PM
Most people don't care that LeBron teamed up with 2 perennial all-stars...

what they hate about Lebroom is the way he did it with the ******** decision telecast, his constant arrogance while not getting it done when it mattered, etc.. etc... etc...

D12 is not an arrogant prick... quite the opposite

bottom line, Howard is just exercising his rights under the CBA. He has not demanded a trade, he is competing at the highest level (see last year when he was robbed of the MVP), he is keeping a pretty low profile.

The reason this is even out there is the fact that Orlando is assessing the situation and determining if they are going to lose him they might as well get something for it.

On a side note, Howard can end up in LA if he wants even if he has to go free agent because the reality of the league is that Orlando would still do a S&T with the Lakers (see bosh and Lebroom last year).

The lack of a franchise tag in the league is the real reason all this speculation goes on. Blame the players and agents for that because the owners asked for it again and didn't get it.

You will be Ok, with the lbj situation one day ....

On another note:

I mention the franchises tag in another thread...

They should try to propose to the players union, a Franchise tag that a player has to agree to "meaning"

Franchise Tag is worth 50mil a year (year to year basses)
It does not count against the Cap ( crazy right )
and it only applies to players that are coming off their completed contracts, with the team that drafted them.

You go to your player thats about to be a free agent, and ask him, when your contract is up, would you mind agreeing that we franchise you. They will have to ask him every year until that player signs a long term contract " I know why would that super star player sign a long term contract :rolleyes: well, what if that star player gets injured, know they have no security " (any player in their right mind, will keep saying YES and never leave their team... But it's their choice)

Teams will have more time to find the right pieces, because they would not want to keep paying out 50mil a year (just so their star player stays); and eventually that star player will see that the team that is built around him can actually compete, and he will sign a long term deal.

So I'm sure, if this was in the league Howard & Cp3 wouldn't leave... Lbj would have stayed on the Cav's ( and toronto would have had to make a decision on Bosh); and the HEAT would have Super Star Franchise tagged Wade last year, and surrounded him with the help that he needed.

Hawkeye15
12-03-2011, 04:34 PM
It's also a double standard. Either hate on all of them or slurp the stars for "prioritizing winning". lol.

PSD is the home of double standards honestly. Its two top 5 players screwing their teams over smack dab in the middle of their primes to go to established teams with other all stars. That sounds exactly like LeBron James to me.

ink
12-03-2011, 04:35 PM
LOL...Lebron's actions are what made people hate him. This is not about hating someone because of their character in their personal life. Lebron held a ONE HR special on himself declaring where he will go play. Something that has never happened before. Usually players just get traded and go play, or they sign with a team. They dont hold one hour specials on tv about themselves. Additionally, many people (including former players) believe Lebron disrespected the GAME by making statements like "its going to be easy" and that he will win 8 championships. Furthermore, what made people lost more respect for Lebron was the fact that he choked when everyone was expecting him to rise and finally win that elusive championship. Dwight is not this type of player. People will not hate Dwight if he teams up with Kobe and the Lakers for these reasons. Of course Dwight's legacy after winning a title alongside Kobe will take a hit as opposed to him winning in Orlando, but all that can change once he becomes the cornerstone of the Lakers franchise. See people dont hate on Lebron because of his game, he is a terrific player. They hate on him for being a douchebag. And when you make statements like its going to be easy to win, and youre gonna win 8 championships, its only natural that people will root for you to fail.

You're just repeating the personal things that bug you about LeBron. The distinction between actions and character doesn't really matter. For whatever reasons people hate him. They like Howard. They're both finding a way to bail on their franchises and chase a ring somewhere else.

GodsSon
12-03-2011, 04:35 PM
There is a huge difference here. These players are letting their respective teams know they want to be traded. That is allowing these teams to get back assets which Cleveland never received. Also Cleveland got humiliated on national tv. Big difference.

How kind of them to plague their teams, teammates and fans with this BS before the season even begins. What Carmelo did to Denver last year is just as bad as what LeBron did if not worse.

Nobody can justify what these players are doing because it's WRONG any way you try and slice it; even if you're a Knicks fans and stand to gain from this.

ink
12-03-2011, 04:37 PM
Dude no. What Lebron did was something no other star player in the history of the league has done. Its completely different. If he chose to go to Miami without making a big deal of it and if he just shup up and played ball, people would not be hating on him. Do you remember before the "decision" and the ensuing party and dumb statements? Lebron was the golden boy of the league. He was beloved by EVERYONE, especially the media. He could do no wrong when he was in Cleavland. Why do you think people turned on him?

I agree he established a low water mark in league history. But these guys are following in his footsteps. Exactly. And it all stems from the ****ed up message these idiots misunderstood from the success of the 2008 Olympic team. I'm not sure how people miss the irony there.

The US team failed miserably when it was led by AI, the world's most self-centred combo guard, in 2004. So they started a whole campaign to bring together a TEAM to compete with the team-oriented Europeans and beat them again. They did it. But the intention there was to relearn how the team game worked, not learn how to collude and play with your BFFs. Typical that NBA players missed that message entirely. All they got out of the Olympics was another way to be more selfish.

beliges
12-03-2011, 04:37 PM
You're just repeating the personal things that bug you about LeBron. The distinction between actions and character doesn't really matter. For whatever reasons people hate him. They like Howard. They're both finding a way to bail on their franchises and chase a ring somewhere else.

I dont hate on Lebron. I think hes a great player. But I understand why people hate him. They dont hate him for his game, they hate him because hes clearly a douche. I have no problem with that. I can certainly see why people want him to fail. Its not that difficult to understand all the hate. He is a complete douche. I know you see that. One would have to be blind to not be able to see that.

HuRRiCaNeS324
12-03-2011, 04:38 PM
within half a page my point is made lol.

"Its not the same cause Bron is a dick!"

Its the same thing fellas. The exact same thing. And it will be if Paul lands in NY. Dwight and Paul should get the same heat LeBron did. Any reply to this stating otherwise is honestly an excuse.

Thank you. I said the same thing last year and everyone jumped on me. Yea they aren't gonna do it on live TV, but its the same concept.

Ill throw in Melo in their as well.

beliges
12-03-2011, 04:42 PM
I agree he established a low water mark in league history. But these guys are following in his footsteps. Exactly. And it all stems from the ****ed up message these idiots misunderstood from the success of the 2008 Olympic team. I'm not sure how people miss the irony there.

I agree and I personally dont have a problem with great players wanting to play with each other. I think it hurts your legacy to a large extent but players of today are much different than the players of yesterday. Furthermore, It doesnt matter to me where you go and play as long as you do it with some humility and you go out there and get the job done. You dont see these players making it all about me me me. There are no team parties in front of their fans nor are their one hour specials on TV where all you talk about is yourself. These players do not refer to themselves in 3rd person. You want to play with another superstar, either sign there or get traded there. Nothing else needs to be done. Your legacy will take a hit but if this is what you want then ok. As for Dwight, his legacy will take a hit winning with Kobe but Kobe is only here for another 3 years. After that, its Dwight's team. That would be the difference between a Lebron/Wade duo. For as long as Wade is there, Miami will alwyas belong to both of them.

Hawkeye15
12-03-2011, 04:42 PM
Thank you. I said the same thing last year and everyone jumped on me. Yea they aren't gonna do it on live TV, but its the same concept.

Ill throw in Melo in their as well.

yep, Melo is in there as well. He isn't a top 5 player, but he is a major difference maker.

Slimsim
12-03-2011, 04:43 PM
within half a page my point is made lol.

"Its not the same cause Bron is a dick!"

Its the same thing fellas. The exact same thing. And it will be if Paul lands in NY. Dwight and Paul should get the same heat LeBron did. Any reply to this stating otherwise is honestly an excuse.

If paul lands with the clippers/OKC it's not the same Only if he lands in NY

ink
12-03-2011, 04:43 PM
PSD is the home of double standards honestly. Its two top 5 players screwing their teams over smack dab in the middle of their primes to go to established teams with other all stars. That sounds exactly like LeBron James to me.

And that's exactly why it was so essential to try to establish firmer rules in the league to prohibit hoarding of talent like the Lakers and Knicks are likely to do ... again. What a ****ed up league. :laugh: It's actually gotten funny watching fans and media run around like chickens with their heads cut off chasing ever rumour with no direction or sense of irony or self-awareness at all. It's the bandwagon league. Drop the principles, it's every man for himself and the big spenders end up with the talent again.

ink
12-03-2011, 04:46 PM
I agree and I personally dont have a problem with great players wanting to play with each other. I think it hurts your legacy to a large extent but players of today are much different than the players of yesterday. Furthermore, It doesnt matter to me where you go and play as long as you do it with some humility and you go out there and get the job done. You dont see these players making it all about me me me. There are no team parties in front of their fans nor are their one hour specials on TV where all you talk about is yourself. These players do not refer to themselves in 3rd person. You want to play with another superstar, either sign there or get traded there. Nothing else needs to be done. Your legacy will take a hit but if this is what you want then ok. As for Dwight, his legacy will take a hit winning with Kobe but Kobe is only here for another 3 years. After that, its Dwight's team. That would be the difference between a Lebron/Wade duo. For as long as Wade is there, Miami will alwyas belong to both of them.

We're not far apart on that post. Honestly the only player you've mentioned that I have any respect for is Wade. The rest are pretty sketchy. Sad period of NBA history. If they don't understand how they are colluding how is the league supposed to have any credibility. It's just another way to fix or rig the league in an attempt to guarantee results. I'm not sure how anyone can cheer for that. :shrug:

Byronicle
12-03-2011, 04:47 PM
it is a bit different though

D12 is joing a single aging superstar where eventually he will be the franchise, where they are going to have to make more moves once Kobe starts to decline

Lebron teamed up with 2 young superstars that will dominate. Lebron played so many games with the media and the fans. Howard has been saying for awhile how frustrated he is and these bad contracts are not helping his case to stay

Magic will get something in return at least. Whereas teams like the Cavs and Raptors got TPE. Howard hasn't said which team he wants to go to but if he said LA then Magic are getting decent pieces in return, yes not equal value but still pieces. Raptors got nothing and if Bosh let us know, we could've made a trade. There were trade offers. Melo wanted out, and got traded and NOW look at the Nuggets, they look good.

CP3 is demanding NYK but knowing that NY has nothing to offer. Now new orleans is even more screwed because everyone knows he only will sign with the Knicks, so pretty much New orleans will get nothing when he walks to join 2 young superstars

people will get mad at Howard because well he's leaving and of course parity in the league is an illusion but this is nothing in comparison to what Lebron did.

Lebron could've said earlier to avoid all the stupid media, and all the fans hoping instead of leaving it to a last minute 1hr special. Lebron could've attracted the superstars to his team but didn't. Magic is a team that is absolutely screwed by really really bad contracts, if Howard stayed, would DWilliams or CP3 want to come over there? Doubt it

ink
12-03-2011, 04:48 PM
I dont hate on Lebron. I think hes a great player. But I understand why people hate him. They dont hate him for his game, they hate him because hes clearly a douche. I have no problem with that. I can certainly see why people want him to fail. Its not that difficult to understand all the hate. He is a complete douche. I know you see that. One would have to be blind to not be able to see that.

Sure he's a douche. Holy ****, he's one of the biggest idiots in the history of sport! lol. But I don't see a big difference between him and the other ex-Olympians. There's nothing douchier than collusion in sport.

GhostfaceDrilla
12-03-2011, 04:50 PM
He's gonna come to Dallas.

HuRRiCaNeS324
12-03-2011, 04:53 PM
Wether you think this league is rigged, colluded, BS, whatever the case, the fact is last year was extremely successful and they're only gonna build off it.

beliges
12-03-2011, 04:54 PM
We're not far apart on that post. Honestly the only player you've mentioned that I have any respect for is Wade. The rest are pretty sketchy. Sad period of NBA history. If they don't understand how they are colluding how is the league supposed to have any credibility. It's just another way to fix or rig the league in an attempt to guarantee results. I'm not sure how anyone can cheer for that. :shrug:

Players are different these days. I think last generation's players are the last of the dying breed and unfortunately not many of them are left. You got guys like KG, Ray Allen, Nash and KObe as the only one's really left from that old school mentality. Players today are so consumed with Twitter and being businessman than they are concerned with being great basketball players. Its different. Its unfortunate that its come to this. Look, LBJ, Wade, CP3, Melo, Amare these guys are all great players and the league is in great hands to have these guys run the realm but it doesnt seem as though these players have the same amount of dedication and love for the game as the players of yesteryear had. Who knows. Thats why I really love Rose and Durant. These guys keep their mouths shut, they stay humble, they dont put themsleves in the limelight and they just go out and perform. Its gonna be sad to see the few players from the last generation that are left finally leave the game.

Sadds The Gr8
12-03-2011, 04:56 PM
all of the stars in the league now are ****in toolbags.

beliges
12-03-2011, 04:59 PM
Sure he's a douche. Holy ****, he's one of the biggest idiots in the history of sport! lol. But I don't see a big difference between him and the other ex-Olympians. There's nothing douchier than collusion in sport.

Well thats why people hate on him. And another thing is I think people expected more from him than they do of Melo and Amare, or CP3 or even Dwight. Dwight would be closest to Lebron as far as expectations go but I think people expected legendary greatness from Lebron. They thought he could get it done in Cleavland. Hell thats why I dont think anyone would have cared if he went to NY or even CHI. People expected more from Lebron than they do for these other players. I think justifiably so. He is such a rare specimen. It was as if if there was one player that could do it witout taking the easy route it wouldve been Lebron but he disappointed all those people by joining D Wade and taking Bosh with him. At least thats how I see it. Amare and Melo and CP3 need to team up together to win. Lebron could have won without teaming up with Wade, so he disappointed a lot of people when he did actually team up with the other best perimeter player in the game.

ink
12-03-2011, 05:04 PM
Players are different these days. I think last generation's players are the last of the dying breed and unfortunately not many of them are left. You got guys like KG, Ray Allen, Nash and KObe as the only one's really left from that old school mentality. Players today are so consumed with Twitter and being businessman than they are concerned with being great basketball players. Its different. Its unfortunate that its come to this. Look, LBJ, Wade, CP3, Melo, Amare these guys are all great players and the league is in great hands to have these guys run the realm but it doesnt seem as though these players have the same amount of dedication and love for the game as the players of yesteryear had. Who knows. Thats why I really love Rose and Durant. These guys keep their mouths shut, they stay humble, they dont put themsleves in the limelight and they just go out and perform. Its gonna be sad to see the few players from the last generation that are left finally leave the game.


all of the stars in the league now are ****in toolbags.

I agree. It's a league of Ochocincos. And I'd include Kobe in that list, perhaps in a different way, but douche-extraordinaire all the same.

I like the ethos of the other sports leagues where it's ****ing obvious they have world-best talent but they're humble about it.

You know, the NFL got so much criticism when they banned end zone celebrations, but what they did was establish CLEARLY that pro football was going to be about the game. The NBA went the opposite way and look at the obnoxious egos they got.

Egos big enough to think them winning rings at any cost is all that matters. Well it's not. If I'm a Hornets fan or a Magic fan, there's no ****ing way that's all that matters. I want my TEAM to win a championship. I want my city of Orlando or New Orleans to win a championship. THAT's what I care about. Not some star who is going to have his 10-12 years of fame and only care about his own "legacy".

Vinylman
12-03-2011, 05:17 PM
You will be Ok, with the lbj situation one day ....
On another note:

I mention the franchises tag in another thread...

They should try to propose to the players union, a Franchise tag that a player has to agree to "meaning"

Franchise Tag is worth 50mil a year (year to year basses)
It does not count against the Cap ( crazy right )
and it only applies to players that are coming off their completed contracts, with the team that drafted them.

You go to your player thats about to be a free agent, and ask him, when your contract is up, would you mind agreeing that we franchise you. They will have to ask him every year until that player signs a long term contract " I know why would that super star player sign a long term contract :rolleyes: well, what if that star player gets injured, know they have no security " (any player in their right mind, will keep saying YES and never leave their team... But it's their choice)

Teams will have more time to find the right pieces, because they would not want to keep paying out 50mil a year (just so their star player stays); and eventually that star player will see that the team that is built around him can actually compete, and he will sign a long term deal.

So I'm sure, if this was in the league Howard & Cp3 wouldn't leave... Lbj would have stayed on the Cav's ( and toronto would have had to make a decision on Bosh); and the HEAT would have Super Star Franchise tagged Wade last year, and surrounded him with the help that he needed.

I could care less that Lebron went to Miami... i assume he will end up winning 2-3 titles... why so few? because the reality is the best player on the team (Dwade) is the kind of player who will fall off a cliff when he turns 30/31 because of all the pounding he has taken over his career.

That's all speculation. What i do know is that I don't like Lebron because he is basically a douche who personifies everything that is wrong in our society about athletes. Short of him coming out 15 years from now and admitting he acted like a spoiled douche i will never respect him as a person. Again, i won't hold my breath waiting for that day :rolleyes:

As for the new CBA... it is basically business as usual... Stern and the owners kicked the can down the road on the tough issues...

Didn't deal with

1. Contraction
2. Hard Cap / Guaranteed Contracts
3. Franchise Tag
4. Etc... etc.. etc..

Shareeb_omac2
12-03-2011, 05:17 PM
Well it's also because fans have embraced this new concept of players picking teams. Remember when Vince Carter was in Toronto and had real reasons why he wanted out of Toronto? The fans tore him apart. Now players are demanding trades for no reason other than playing for a big city or a stacked team.

koreancabbage
12-03-2011, 05:19 PM
Players are different these days. I think last generation's players are the last of the dying breed and unfortunately not many of them are left. You got guys like KG, Ray Allen, Nash and KObe as the only one's really left from that old school mentality. Players today are so consumed with Twitter and being businessman than they are concerned with being great basketball players. Its different. Its unfortunate that its come to this. Look, LBJ, Wade, CP3, Melo, Amare these guys are all great players and the league is in great hands to have these guys run the realm but it doesnt seem as though these players have the same amount of dedication and love for the game as the players of yesteryear had. Who knows. Thats why I really love Rose and Durant. These guys keep their mouths shut, they stay humble, they dont put themsleves in the limelight and they just go out and perform. Its gonna be sad to see the few players from the last generation that are left finally leave the game.

just wait till they get into their primes and their team isn't going anywhere after several tries. Like I get that you think they are humble by being quiet and all but its about winning. If the GMs are are trying their best to no avail, yea its time to move on, or if the GM isn't trying hard enough to surround you with players.

If the Bulls and Thunder don't do anything spectacular in the next 3-5 years, Rose and Durant could also say they wanna leave. I don't think its fair to compare stars in the middle or end of their 2nd contracts (extension or what not) than players in the beginning of their 2nd contracts.

Vinylman
12-03-2011, 05:24 PM
I agree. It's a league of Ochocincos. And I'd include Kobe in that list, perhaps in a different way, but douche-extraordinaire all the same.

I like the ethos of the other sports leagues where it's ****ing obvious they have world-best talent but they're humble about it.

You know, the NFL got so much criticism when they banned end zone celebrations, but what they did was establish CLEARLY that pro football was going to be about the game. The NBA went the opposite way and look at the obnoxious egos they got.

Egos big enough to think them winning rings at any cost is all that matters. Well it's not. If I'm a Hornets fan or a Magic fan, there's no ****ing way that's all that matters. I want my TEAM to win a championship. I want my city of Orlando or New Orleans to win a championship. THAT's what I care about. Not some star who is going to have his 10-12 years of fame and only care about his own "legacy".

You just described most Laker fans at the end there ... if we thought trading Kobe Bryant would brink us more Chips in the next 10 years we would be all for it. We already proved this point with fat arse Shaq... congrats to him... he won 1 more chip with Miami and never got close again... the Lakers have won 2 and been in a third...

You oversimplify your arguments about players though... the one to blame for the current state of affairs is Stern. His whole marketing strategy was to promote individuals and not teams. That worked great in the late 80's and 90's but as the talent dried up the mistake that was made was that they started annointing guys who hadn't accomplished anything... false prophets if you will... that is why there is so much backlash now

ink
12-03-2011, 09:08 PM
You oversimplify your arguments about players though... the one to blame for the current state of affairs is Stern. His whole marketing strategy was to promote individuals and not teams. That worked great in the late 80's and 90's but as the talent dried up the mistake that was made was that they started annointing guys who hadn't accomplished anything... false prophets if you will... that is why there is so much backlash now

Or maybe you didn't read them. I said that the NFL got it right when they emphasized the game while the NBA went in the exact opposite direction and emphasized so-called stars. Everything else you've said in this post I completely agree with. The league created this farce, now we have to put up with the oversize (unjustified) egos and the bandwagon fans who know the game only through highlights and YouTube clips. Let's get back to the game, let's get back to some loyalty and integrity. Looking at you D12 and CP3.

ink
12-03-2011, 09:09 PM
How kind of them to plague their teams, teammates and fans with this BS before the season even begins. What Carmelo did to Denver last year is just as bad as what LeBron did if not worse.

Nobody can justify what these players are doing because it's WRONG any way you try and slice it; even if you're a Knicks fans and stand to gain from this.

This says it all.

Tony_Starks
12-03-2011, 09:12 PM
I agree. It's a league of Ochocincos. And I'd include Kobe in that list, perhaps in a different way, but douche-extraordinaire all the same.

I like the ethos of the other sports leagues where it's ****ing obvious they have world-best talent but they're humble about it.

You know, the NFL got so much criticism when they banned end zone celebrations, but what they did was establish CLEARLY that pro football was going to be about the game. The NBA went the opposite way and look at the obnoxious egos they got.

Egos big enough to think them winning rings at any cost is all that matters. Well it's not. If I'm a Hornets fan or a Magic fan, there's no ****ing way that's all that matters. I want my TEAM to win a championship. I want my city of Orlando or New Orleans to win a championship. THAT's what I care about. Not some star who is going to have his 10-12 years of fame and only care about his own "legacy".



You think the nba players are classless ego-maniacs. We get it. Im sorry they can't have the sophistication of hockey players that knock each others teeth out for entertainment.

Their bad.

ink
12-03-2011, 10:20 PM
You think the nba players are classless ego-maniacs. We get it. Im sorry they can't have the sophistication of hockey players that knock each others teeth out for entertainment.

Their bad.

That would be a failed strawman.

waveycrockett
12-03-2011, 10:40 PM
The NFL is an ownership dominted league, fans identify with teams not players. In the NBA players are bigger than the teams because NBA players are more recognizable and marketable. It's the way it's always been people need to get over it. Unless they want to do like baseball and create rules that get rid of a cap so teams can offer unlimited years/money to keep their stars fans just need to just accept it because it aint gunna change. The NBA tried to implement that franchise-tag/hard-cap crap the NFL has and got stuffed then exposed b/c in the end all they care about is their revenue % not parity.