PDA

View Full Version : Hollinger: Chris Paul to the Knicks highly unlikely



elonepb
11-29-2011, 09:48 AM
I know most of the smarter fans around here already recognized this CP3 dream as something that was being pushed mainly by the NY beat writers, but it's good to see an ESPN reporter actually break it down why it doesn't work financially - or rather, why CP3 would have to give up a TON to make it happen.

Insider article: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7292666/nba-chris-paul-knicks-highly-unlikely

I can paste it if anyone wants.

Venomous88
11-29-2011, 09:49 AM
Paste it

ShakeN'Bake
11-29-2011, 09:55 AM
I know most of the smarter fans around here already recognized this CP3 dream as something that was being pushed mainly by the NY beat writers, but it's good to see an ESPN reporter actually break it down why it doesn't work financially - or rather, why CP3 would have to give up a TON to make it happen.

Insider article: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7292666/nba-chris-paul-knicks-highly-unlikely

I can paste it if anyone wants.

Dont paste it for your own sake. I think the mods will be all over you for it.

Knicks21
11-29-2011, 09:57 AM
don't get me ****ing started on hollinger.

tcav701
11-29-2011, 09:59 AM
CP3 to the Clippers would give him a superteam for the next decade, not just the next 3 years.

Evolution23
11-29-2011, 10:00 AM
Chris Brussard is a Knick hater. He's the one reporting it.

elonepb
11-29-2011, 10:00 AM
Ok I won't paste it, but it's basically math. It's not hollinger, it's math.

Even if they get rid of EVERYBODY (no Douglas, Fields, or Shumpert), they only have $13.5M to offer CP3 after cap holds for minimum players (you need 12 to field a team). He'd make $40M MORE if he signed with New Orleans.

So he'd need a sign and trade, and the Knicks have zero assets left after the Melo fiasco. So CP3 to NY works as long as he's willing to give up $40M.

Knicks21
11-29-2011, 10:08 AM
not mad about the truth, I'm mad that out of everyone it is him. Hollinger ****s the knicks over again.

elonepb
11-29-2011, 10:11 AM
not mad about the truth, I'm mad that out of everyone it is him. Hollinger ****s the knicks over again.

I'm not sure how he's ****ing all over the Knicks. He's just taking a story that has somehow become an afterthought of fact, and showing why it's not true. He also says Deron Williams and Dwight Howard will also lose $40M by signing somewhere else.

$40M is a LOT to give up for anybody.

blahblahyoutoo
11-29-2011, 10:15 AM
Ok I won't paste it, but it's basically math. It's not hollinger, it's math.

Even if they get rid of EVERYBODY (no Douglas, Fields, or Shumpert), they only have $13.5M to offer CP3 after cap holds for minimum players (you need 12 to field a team). He'd make $40M MORE if he signed with New Orleans.

So he'd need a sign and trade, and the Knicks have zero assets left after the Melo fiasco. So CP3 to NY works as long as he's willing to give up $40M.

thanks melo for your selfless contributions to the team!

theheatles
11-29-2011, 10:16 AM
cp3 to the clippers would be a better fit

daleja424
11-29-2011, 10:16 AM
Obviously... it is the stupid NY media that has been pumping this pipe dream into the heads of Knicks fans... setting them up for a serious let down.

This just is not going to happen... they cannot have all three b/c Melo and Amare demanded max dollars... now it is not possible for them to bring in all three...

beasted86
11-29-2011, 10:17 AM
So CP3 to NY works as long as he's willing to give up $40M.

Also that he knows he'd be playing with a roster of:

3 all-stars, one $2.5M player, and the rest are veteran/rookie minimum caliber players only for at least 2012/2013.

The Miami Heat had Chalmers, Miller, Haslem, and Joel Anthony as more-than-minimum caliber players for their 2010 team. Most of the guys we got for the minimum other than James Jones and Big Z ended up not being in the rotation come playoff time because they had holes in their game and/or were too old.

daleja424
11-29-2011, 10:17 AM
Ok I won't paste it, but it's basically math. It's not hollinger, it's math.

Even if they get rid of EVERYBODY (no Douglas, Fields, or Shumpert), they only have $13.5M to offer CP3 after cap holds for minimum players (you need 12 to field a team). He'd make $40M MORE if he signed with New Orleans.

So he'd need a sign and trade, and the Knicks have zero assets left after the Melo fiasco. So CP3 to NY works as long as he's willing to give up $40M.

and even if he did take that huge paycut... there wouldn't be any money for anything but vet mins left.

BigCityofDreams
11-29-2011, 10:18 AM
i dont see why he wants to go to NY when the clippers can sign him and howard


http://www.hoopsworld.com/los-angeles-clippers-team-salary/

but we will see

He wants to form his own big 3 in NY. It's been their plan for a couple of yrs now.

theheatles
11-29-2011, 10:19 AM
Obviously... it is the stupid NY media that has been pumping this pipe dream into the heads of Knicks fans... setting them up for a serious let down.

This just is not going to happen... they cannot have all three b/c Melo and Amare demanded max dollars... now it is not possible for them to bring in all three...

new york greed ftl

plus new york city has the highest taxes in the country so cp3 isn't taking a discount

daleja424
11-29-2011, 10:19 AM
He wants to form his own big 3 in NY. It's been their plan for a couple of yrs now.

Clearly it wasn't their plan...or Melo and Stat wouldnt have set up their contracts the way that they did.

justinnum1
11-29-2011, 10:21 AM
not mad about the truth, I'm mad that out of everyone it is him. Hollinger ****s the knicks over again.

How is it anyones fault, when all they are reporting is facts? Come on man. The numbers dont lie...I personally dont think the money is an issue for CP3, he will make much more than that in endorsements. But getting mad at hollinger is ********...if it was alan hahn, or any other beat writer reporting the same thing, would you be *****ing?

justinnum1
11-29-2011, 10:22 AM
and even if he did take that huge paycut... there wouldn't be any money for anything but vet mins left.

There is no sense, these knicks fans dont understand salary cap or cba. By the time the field a competitive team around there big 3, it will be 4+ years from now.

elonepb
11-29-2011, 10:24 AM
The numbers dont lie...I personally dont think the money is an issue for CP3, he will make much more than that in endorsements. But getting mad at hollinger is ********...if it was alan hahn, or any other beat writer reporting the same thing, would you be *****ing?

He's already a superstar. He won't be making that much more in NY - certainly not enough to offset $40M of guaranteed money.

But hey, maybe he does it! Personally, I don't think a team of Amare, Melo, CP3, $2.5M player, 8 minimum contracts is going to beat the Heat or Bulls.

justinnum1
11-29-2011, 10:26 AM
He's already a superstar. He won't be making that much more in NY - certainly not enough to offset $40M of guaranteed money.

But hey, maybe he does it! Personally, I don't think a team of Amare, Melo, CP3, $2.5M player, 8 minimum contracts is going to beat the Heat or Bulls.

They arent beating the heat, might beat the bulls.

blahblahyoutoo
11-29-2011, 10:32 AM
He wants to form his own big 3 in NY. It's been their plan for a couple of yrs now.

apparently stat/melo weren't on board with the plan when they gobbled up 2/3 of the cap space

Slimsim
11-29-2011, 10:37 AM
If paul want to be a Knick he can be a Knick. And as long as sterling is in charge of the clippers they are no threat.

daleja424
11-29-2011, 10:39 AM
apparently stat/melo weren't on board with the plan when they gobbled up 2/3 of the cap space

actually...they gobbeled up 72.5% of the space... leaving the Knicks 27.5% worth of cap space for Paul and 9 other players...

and all of that is assuming they get rid of Shumpert as well...

Greet
11-29-2011, 10:39 AM
If paul want to be a Knick he can be a Knick. And as long as sterling is in charge of the clippers they are no threat.

Like someone said, only if he wants to take A LOT less money.

daleja424
11-29-2011, 10:41 AM
If paul want to be a Knick he can be a Knick. And as long as sterling is in charge of the clippers they are no threat.

and all he will have to do is take half the money and agree to play with 9 d-leaguers... :eyebrow:

That is not an attractive situation. The Knicks should stop trying to emulate the HEAT and build a friggin team. It didn't work out for them so well last time they put a crap team on the court to save up for the biggest FA name...

I can't imagine that Amare signed on with them to spend two years as an average team all hoping that Paul agrees to take a bad contract to join the Knicks.

Hawkeye15
11-29-2011, 10:42 AM
New York media generates so much crap that people somehow buy into. I will never get why NY fans get into it so heavy. Do the research yourself.

NYKnicks4511
11-29-2011, 10:42 AM
Hollinger has little to no basketball acumen / concept of how the league works... when it comes to his bullish-t stats he's a professor, but regarding everything else he is hardly a credible source. This is the same guy who gave the Knicks a "D+" regarding the acquisition of Carmelo Anthony. He's a Knick hater.

daleja424
11-29-2011, 10:43 AM
If I was a Knicks fan I would be pissed.

They spent years building up to Lebron, failed, started to build a promising team, and are now once again putting an entire year on hold waiting around for the chance of maybe getting someone.... come on.

daleja424
11-29-2011, 10:43 AM
Hollinger has little to no basketball acumen / concept of how the league works... when it comes to his bullish-t stats he's a professor, but regarding everything else he is hardly a credible source. This is the same guy who gave the Knicks a "D+" regarding the acquisition of Carmelo Anthony. He's a Knick hater.

All he did was math... :rolleyes:

BigCityofDreams
11-29-2011, 10:43 AM
Clearly it wasn't their plan...or Melo and Stat wouldnt have set up their contracts the way that they did.

True they could have taken discounts but chose not too.

Hawkeye15
11-29-2011, 10:43 AM
Knicks fans, you are aware of how much Amare/Melo take up, cap wise? Right?

No way Paul is signing with them outright. They will then have about $5 million to sign 9 players.

BigCityofDreams
11-29-2011, 10:44 AM
apparently stat/melo weren't on board with the plan when they gobbled up 2/3 of the cap space

I guess greed has no limits

tcav701
11-29-2011, 10:46 AM
Hollinger has little to no basketball acumen / concept of how the league works... when it comes to his bullish-t stats he's a professor, but regarding everything else he is hardly a credible source. This is the same guy who gave the Knicks a "D+" regarding the acquisition of Carmelo Anthony. He's a Knick hater.

If they cant acquire CP3, then the Melo deal may deserve that D+.

justinnum1
11-29-2011, 10:48 AM
And i dont think the knicks will be getting CP3 in a trade. David stern basically owns the hornets and i dont see him trading CP3 to the knicks. Not to mention the knicks have nothing to trade.

nycericanguy
11-29-2011, 10:49 AM
In fairness Hollinger wrote that article under the presumption that the cap will stay the same 3 straight years, which I don't think has ever happened. Dolan says the cap will be around $61m in 2012, which would give NY $3m or so more to play with in which they could offer CP3 a deal starting at around $14.5m or so and maybe keep one of their young guys as well like Fields who makes less than $1m.

That being said, I posted this in the Knicks forum and so I'll post it here.

As sexy as it would be to have CP3 here, I'm starting to think Nash is the better option. CP3, via trade or FAgency is going to completely gut this team. Which means we probably have to wait til 2013 to add decent role players to really be a true contender.

I would never have thought Nash would be a good option in 2012, heck I thought he'd be too old for 2010 even 5 years ago. But he is still playing at an MVP level. Watching Kidd lead DAL to a title, there is no reason to think that Nash is going to fall off a cliff, he should be able to play another 3 years at a very high level.

Nash likely won't command a max deal and would allow us to keep Fields, Shumpert, & Douglas and perhaps another solid 2012 free agent. We would be able to contend in 2012 right away.

Harrelson/Jordan
Amare
Melo
Fields/Douglas
Nash/Shumpert

elonepb
11-29-2011, 10:51 AM
He's a Knick hater.

Math is a Knicks hater too then.

justinnum1
11-29-2011, 10:51 AM
In fairness Hollinger wrote that article under the presumption that the cap will stay the same 3 straight years, which I don't think has ever happened. Dolan says the cap will be around $61m in 2012, which would give NY $3m or so more to play with in which they could offer CP3 a deal starting at around $14.5m or so and maybe keep one of their young guys as well like Fields who makes less than $1m.

That being said, I posted this in the Knicks forum and so I'll post it here.

As sexy as it would be to have CP3 here, I'm starting to think Nash is the better option. CP3, via trade or FAgency is going to completely gut this team. Which means we probably have to wait til 2013 to add decent role players to really be a true contender.

I would never have thought Nash would be a good option in 2012, heck I thought he'd be too old for 2010 even 5 years ago. But he is still playing at an MVP level. Watching Kidd lead DAL to a title, there is no reason to think that Nash is going to fall off a cliff, he should be able to play another 3 years at a very high level.

Nash likely won't command a max deal and would allow us to keep Fields, Shumpert, & Douglas and perhaps another solid 2012 free agent. We would be able to contend in 2012 right away.

Harrelson/Jordan
Amare
Melo
Fields/Douglas
Nash/Shumpert

Dont see how that helps, your team would be even worse defensively than it is now.

elonepb
11-29-2011, 10:53 AM
As sexy as it would be to have CP3 here, I'm starting to think Nash is the better option. CP3, via trade or FAgency is going to completely gut this team. Which means we probably have to wait til 2013 to add decent role players to really be a true contender.

The better option is to build a real TEAM. Nash would be good if he's taking a small contract to complete his career in the city he lives. Getting a defense center that can put up 10PPG, and getting a few other pieces including bench players and hustle guys.

You have to have a team to win. The Knicks had one last year until they traded everyone away for Melo. Now they have to rebuild again, but they have a decent foundation.

Going for broke for CP3 is a mistake in my opinion.

nycericanguy
11-29-2011, 10:56 AM
Dont see how that helps, your team would be even worse defensively than it is now.

Shumpert, Douglas & Fields are all very solid defenders, so if we can keep them I don't see how we'd be worse defensively at all, we'd be much better.

Cp3 is a better defender than Nash yes, but as a team we'd be better

if you don't see how adding a 2 time MVP and a top 5 PG and the best shooter in the NBA to a team helps them i dont know what to tell u. adding Nash to almost any team in the NBA immediately takes them to a whole nother level.

nycericanguy
11-29-2011, 10:58 AM
The better option is to build a real TEAM. Nash would be good if he's taking a small contract to complete his career in the city he lives. Getting a defense center that can put up 10PPG, and getting a few other pieces including bench players and hustle guys.

You have to have a team to win. The Knicks had one last year until they traded everyone away for Melo. Now they have to rebuild again, but they have a decent foundation.

Going for broke for CP3 is a mistake in my opinion.

Nash isn't going to take a "small" contract, but I doubt he's going to get a max, so NY could build a team and get Nash. They'd be a solid 7-8 deep if they can keep their young guys.

beasted86
11-29-2011, 10:58 AM
At the end of the day, the Knicks need to find some sort of 3-way trade partner to get Paul using Billups and whatever else assets they have, cause I don't see the Knicks signing Paul outright.

LongIslandIcedZ
11-29-2011, 11:00 AM
Lets just wait and see, it seems like a pipe dream at this point, but who knows what can happen.

elonepb
11-29-2011, 11:02 AM
Shumpert, Douglas & Fields are all very solid defenders, so if we can keep them I don't see how we'd be worse defensively at all, we'd be much better.

Sure, you can keep them. But now you've limited what you can offer CP3 even more. If you keep those 3 and amnesty Balkman, you are now offering CP3 around $11M a year.

Robbw241
11-29-2011, 11:02 AM
Chris Paul throwin olley-oops to Blake Griffin would be awesome.

justinnum1
11-29-2011, 11:04 AM
Shumpert, Douglas & Fields are all very solid defenders, so if we can keep them I don't see how we'd be worse defensively at all, we'd be much better.

Cp3 is a better defender than Nash yes, but as a team we'd be better

if you don't see how adding a 2 time MVP and a top 5 PG and the best shooter in the NBA to a team helps them i dont know what to tell u. adding Nash to almost any team in the NBA immediately takes them to a whole nother level.

Shumpert will be getting less than 10min per game this season. fields was horrible at the end of last season, hurt your team. Douglas is to inconsistent. Still dont see that team winning more than 1 game off he heat.

nycericanguy
11-29-2011, 11:05 AM
Sure, you can keep them. But now you've limited what you can offer CP3 even more. If you keep those 3 and amnesty Balkman, you are now offering CP3 around $11M a year.

:facepalm:

go back and read what that post was about... I was saying Nash would be a better option because we could sign Nash and keep all our young guys.

elonepb
11-29-2011, 11:05 AM
I personally don't think CP3 is willing to take a $40M pay cut OR play for the Clippers, but those are tactics being used to gain leverage for a trade to NYK.

If NO believes he'll sign for less (like Denver thought with Melo and NY) then they'll feel forced to trade him.

P Styles
11-29-2011, 11:05 AM
Posted this in the other CP3/NY thread...

What I'm waiting to see is how badly Amar'e and Melo really want to play with CP3. The HEAT Big 3 all took significant paycuts in order to play together, which is the only thing that makes me hate them a little less. They really want to win, and were willing to sacrifice the size of their contracts to do so.

Now, IF the Knicks could get CP3 I wonder if Amar'e and Melo would restructure their contracts in order to make it happen. I would hope that they would, as they are already on the hook for $20m each/year.

What kills the knicks is the Carmelo trade and timing of the CBA. We lost a lot of assets in that trade (I still however agree with making the move if it gets you Carmelo). If we had Chandler/Gallo/Felton/Mozgov/1st Rounder, we could have signed Carmelo in free agency and either kept those players or traded them for Paul. Unfortunately the timing of the CBA screwed us because Melo wasnt willing to wait til free agency because of all the CBA uncertainty.

I'd love to get Paul, but I cant see him turning down $20m/year for $13m/year from the Knicks, while his "best friends" Melo and Amar'e are making $20m+

nycericanguy
11-29-2011, 11:07 AM
Shumpert will be getting less than 10min per game this season. fields was horrible at the end of last season, hurt your team. Douglas is to inconsistent. Still dont see that team winning more than 1 game off he heat.

wow dude. Fields was an all rookie and rookie of the month 3 times. Shot 50% from the field, 40% from 3 and lead all guards in rebounds.

He struggled to find his way when we got Melo late in the season...does that mean he all of a sudden sucks? It was a tough situation with no practices and he was a 22 year old rookie.

Shumpert will play more than 10mpg unless he flops. But he is looking like another steal from what I've read and heard about him he has been impressing everywhere he plays. Not saying he's going to be a star, but you are downplaying him way too much, he will have a significant role here.

Douglas is inconsistent but defense doesn't go into slumps, and thats what we were talking about.

you stating you don't know how adding Nash would help NY makes me question your basketball knowledge TBH.

beasted86
11-29-2011, 11:14 AM
I personally don't think CP3 is willing to take a $40M pay cut OR play for the Clippers, but those are tactics being used to gain leverage for a trade to NYK.

If NO believes he'll sign for less (like Denver thought with Melo and NY) then they'll feel forced to trade him.


They aren't going to trade him mid-season still unless they are getting something significant in return. If they feel forced to trade him to NY, it will be in the summer via sign & trade.

What Denver got back in their trade allowed them to still make the playoffs and field a competitive team. It's pretty clear the Knicks can't offer that same solution around a Billups package.

elonepb
11-29-2011, 11:15 AM
Now, IF the Knicks could get CP3 I wonder if Amar'e and Melo would restructure their contracts in order to make it happen. I would hope that they would, as they are already on the hook for $20m each/year.

Not sure if someone responded to you in the other thread, but you CANNOT restructure existing contracts. CP3 has to take a huge paycut, while as you noted, his friends are making max.

Also, Melo could've just joined the Knicks this offseason as a FA and signed for less than what he would've made in the Extend + Trade deal, but he didn't. He wanted every penny he could get.

Amare could've resigned with the Suns where he wanted to stay, but he didn't. He took every last penny he could get and signed with NYK.

So how do those two guys, who did everything they could to get the biggest paycheck, tell their boy CP3 to now give up $40M?

beasted86
11-29-2011, 11:16 AM
Sure, you can keep them. But now you've limited what you can offer CP3 even more. If you keep those 3 and amnesty Balkman, you are now offering CP3 around $11M a year.

I said this same thing about a month ago in a thread to this EXACT same poster, with all the same drawn out math Hollinger did, I came up with about $11.5M as what htey could offer, and he ignored it, and even went as far as to say they would trade away all those players even though they are on reasonable contracts.

He wants Paul in NY, and is willing to ignore or argue otherwise anything that points to a different scenario.

BigCityofDreams
11-29-2011, 11:18 AM
as i said, we will see

Yes we will see whatever happens it will be interesting.

oak2455
11-29-2011, 11:18 AM
wow dude. Fields was an all rookie and rookie of the month 3 times. Shot 50% from the field, 40% from 3 and lead all guards in rebounds.

He struggled to find his way when we got Melo late in the season...does that mean he all of a sudden sucks? It was a tough situation with no practices and he was a 22 year old rookie.

Shumpert will play more than 10mpg unless he flops. But he is looking like another steal from what I've read and heard about him he has been impressing everywhere he plays. Not saying he's going to be a star, but you are downplaying him way too much, he will have a significant role here.

Douglas is inconsistent but defense doesn't go into slumps, and thats what we were talking about.

you stating you don't know how adding Nash would help NY makes me question your basketball knowledge TBH.
why bother you can't get through cement..... I understand what your saying

RevisIsland
11-29-2011, 11:21 AM
Honestly at this point it's a complete crap shoot. Who would have guess before the '09-'10 season that LeBron and Bosh would be in Miami and that Melo would force his way to the Knicks? It's way too early to predict these things. I personally don't think CP3 ends up as a Knick, but it's too early to tell.

nycericanguy
11-29-2011, 11:22 AM
I said this same thing about a month ago in a thread to this EXACT same poster, with all the same drawn out math Hollinger did, I came up with about $11.5M as what htey could offer, and he ignored it, and even went as far as to say they would trade away all those players even though they are on reasonable contracts.

He wants Paul in NY, and is willing to ignore or argue otherwise anything that points to a different scenario.

ok now you both look like jackasses... here is what that post was in regard too since you're just picking and choosing to read one quote.


I'm starting to think Nash is the better option. CP3, via trade or FAgency is going to completely gut this team. Which means we probably have to wait til 2013 to add decent role players to really be a true contender.

I would never have thought Nash would be a good option in 2012, heck I thought he'd be too old for 2010 even 5 years ago. But he is still playing at an MVP level. Watching Kidd lead DAL to a title, there is no reason to think that Nash is going to fall off a cliff, he should be able to play another 3 years at a very high level.

Nash likely won't command a max deal and would allow us to keep Fields, Shumpert, & Douglas and perhaps another solid 2012 free agent. We would be able to contend in 2012 right away.

and yes if it came down to of course NY would trade those "reasonable contracts" if it meant CP3. Not exactly rocket science.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-29-2011, 11:25 AM
He wants to form his own big 3 in NY. It's been their plan for a couple of yrs now.

cool story bro:laugh2:

He told you this?

BigCityofDreams
11-29-2011, 11:43 AM
cool story bro:laugh2:

He told you this?

No he did this at Melo's wedding when he stood up in front of everyone and said he wants to play with Melo and Amare. Paul to NY started that day. No Knick fan had any plans for a NY big 3. Hell they were still pissed off that Lebron took his talents to South Beach. No one thought Melo to NY was a possibility. Based on reports he was going to extend his contract with DEN. Before that story came out did anyone hear about Paul wanting to play in NY or even consider it....no. This is not something the public cooked up like when Yankees fans target a player and say "he wants to be a Yankee I can tell" Paul started this whole thing a yr ago.

justinnum1
11-29-2011, 11:47 AM
No he did this at Melo's wedding when he stood up in front of everyone and said he wants to play with Melo and Amare. Paul to NY started that day. No Knick fan had any plans for a NY big 3. Hell they were still pissed off that Lebron took his talents to South Beach. No one thought Melo to NY was a possibility. Based on reports he was going to extend his contract with DEN. Before that story came out did anyone hear about Paul wanting to play in NY or even consider it....no. This is not something the public cooked up like when Yankees fans target a player and say "he wants to be a Yankee I can tell" Paul started this whole thing a yr ago.

That might be waht CP3 wants, but the knicks salary cap situation tells a different story. It will be much much harder than knicks fans think for them to aqcuire CP3. By getting CP3 you are basically gutting your team and will refill with vet min players. Will take 3-4 years for the knicks to become contenders.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-29-2011, 11:48 AM
Posted this in the other CP3/NY thread...

What I'm waiting to see is how badly Amar'e and Melo really want to play with CP3. The HEAT Big 3 all took significant paycuts in order to play together, which is the only thing that makes me hate them a little less. They really want to win, and were willing to sacrifice the size of their contracts to do so.

Now, IF the Knicks could get CP3 I wonder if Amar'e and Melo would restructure their contracts in order to make it happen. I would hope that they would, as they are already on the hook for $20m each/year.

What kills the knicks is the Carmelo trade and timing of the CBA. We lost a lot of assets in that trade (I still however agree with making the move if it gets you Carmelo). If we had Chandler/Gallo/Felton/Mozgov/1st Rounder, we could have signed Carmelo in free agency and either kept those players or traded them for Paul. Unfortunately the timing of the CBA screwed us because Melo wasnt willing to wait til free agency because of all the CBA uncertainty.

I'd love to get Paul, but I cant see him turning down $20m/year for $13m/year from the Knicks, while his "best friends" Melo and Amar'e are making $20m+

:confused::confused:

29$JerZ
11-29-2011, 11:51 AM
More Knick talk :sigh:

It's pretty obvious Paul will not be a Knick unless he makes the sacrifice
Melo screwed the Knicks chances at being elite

mjm07
11-29-2011, 11:51 AM
Posted this in the other CP3/NY thread...

What I'm waiting to see is how badly Amar'e and Melo really want to play with CP3. The HEAT Big 3 all took significant paycuts in order to play together, which is the only thing that makes me hate them a little less. They really want to win, and were willing to sacrifice the size of their contracts to do so.

Now, IF the Knicks could get CP3 I wonder if Amar'e and Melo would restructure their contracts in order to make it happen. I would hope that they would, as they are already on the hook for $20m each/year.
What kills the knicks is the Carmelo trade and timing of the CBA. We lost a lot of assets in that trade (I still however agree with making the move if it gets you Carmelo). If we had Chandler/Gallo/Felton/Mozgov/1st Rounder, we could have signed Carmelo in free agency and either kept those players or traded them for Paul. Unfortunately the timing of the CBA screwed us because Melo wasnt willing to wait til free agency because of all the CBA uncertainty.

I'd love to get Paul, but I cant see him turning down $20m/year for $13m/year from the Knicks, while his "best friends" Melo and Amar'e are making $20m+

The Knicks have $39.5 million committed just to Stoudemire and Anthony. (And before you ask, they cannot renegotiate their contracts downward.)

J. Hollinger

29$JerZ
11-29-2011, 11:53 AM
Some Knick fans really need to learn more about CAP restrictions and transactions. NY made their last run at a star with Melo. If he was smarter he could of had money and a larger shot at apaul but he flirted with NJ and burnt the Knicks.

nycericanguy
11-29-2011, 11:55 AM
Some Knick fans really need to learn more about CAP restrictions and transactions. NY made their last run at a star with Melo. If he was smarter he could of had money and a larger shot at apaul but he flirted with NJ and burnt the Knicks.

After 2010, I think Knick fans for the most part are actually pretty knowledgeable about the cap. I learned most of my cap stuff from the NYK forum. You shouldn't bash a fan base based on a few posters that don't know what they're talking about. Every team has those kind of fans, casual fans.

BigCityofDreams
11-29-2011, 11:59 AM
That might be waht CP3 wants, but the knicks salary cap situation tells a different story. It will be much much harder than knicks fans think for them to aqcuire CP3. By getting CP3 you are basically gutting your team and will refill with vet min players. Will take 3-4 years for the knicks to become contenders.

No one said it would be easy because it won't but at the same time fans of other teams can't sit here and say it has no chance of happening.

29$JerZ
11-29-2011, 11:59 AM
After 2010, I think Knick fans for the most part are actually pretty knowledgeable about the cap. I learned most of my cap stuff from the NYK forum. You shouldn't bash a fan base based on a few posters that don't know what they're talking about. Every team has those kind of fans, casual fans.

Hence why I stated "Some Knick Fans"

Chronz
11-29-2011, 12:13 PM
Teams need to realize frontloading contracts is the best way to build your team. Take the hit early and build much more freely

NYKnicks4511
11-29-2011, 12:18 PM
and all he will have to do is take half the money and agree to play with 9 d-leaguers... :eyebrow:

That is not an attractive situation. The Knicks should stop trying to emulate the HEAT and build a friggin team. It didn't work out for them so well last time they put a crap team on the court to save up for the biggest FA name...

I can't imagine that Amare signed on with them to spend two years as an average team all hoping that Paul agrees to take a bad contract to join the Knicks.

The Heat ain't nothing to emulate considering the Knicks would have the better trio of superstars.

And coming from a Heat fan, saying Paul wouldn't want to play with Amar'e and Melo with 9 filler players is absurd considering that LeBron took a "bad contract" to play with Dwyane Wade and half a star in Chris Bosh along with scrubs like Mario Chalmers, James Jones, a washed up Zydrunas, Bibby, Dampier, Magloire, House, and Joel Anthony. :facepalm:

The marketing schemes available for Paul to re-accrue all the potential income that he'd forsake by signing with NYK are endless considering 1.) He's with the Jordan brand/has shoe deal 2.)He's young and personable, 3.) He'd be the biggest star PG in NY since Walt Frazier.

And don't count us out this year either, people are sleeping on what Billups has left in the tank -- we took out Miami a few times last year as well if I remember correctly...

blahblahyoutoo
11-29-2011, 12:23 PM
If they cant acquire CP3, then the Melo deal may deserve that D+.

i've been saying all along, posting in the knicks forum even, that was a piss poor trade.
melo wasn't the answer, and that contract plus the pieces they lost definitely weren't worth it.

justinnum1
11-29-2011, 12:24 PM
The Heat ain't nothing to emulate considering the Knicks would have the better trio of superstars.

And coming from a Heat fan, saying Paul wouldn't want to play with Amar'e and Melo with 9 filler players is absurd considering that LeBron took a "bad contract" to play with Dwyane Wade and half a star in Chris Bosh along with scrubs like Mario Chalmers, James Jones, a washed up Zydrunas, Bibby, Dampier, Magloire, House, and Joel Anthony. :facepalm:

The marketing schemes available for Paul to re-accrue all the potential income that he'd forsake by signing with NYK are endless considering 1.) He's with the Jordan brand/has shoe deal 2.)He's young and personable, 3.) He'd be the biggest star PG in NY since Walt Frazier.

And don't count us out this year either, people are sleeping on what Billups has left in the tank -- we took out Miami a few times last year as well if I remember correctly...

:sigh::facepalm:

blahblahyoutoo
11-29-2011, 12:26 PM
Now, IF the Knicks could get CP3 I wonder if Amar'e and Melo would restructure their contracts in order to make it happen. I would hope that they would, as they are already on the hook for $20m each/year.


is restructuring contracts allowed?
has it been done before?
if so, maybe that was their plan. get paid max for 1 - 2 years while waiting for cp3.
:D

mjm07
11-29-2011, 12:28 PM
The Heat ain't nothing to emulate considering the Knicks would have the better trio of superstars.

And coming from a Heat fan, saying Paul wouldn't want to play with Amar'e and Melo with 9 filler players is absurd considering that LeBron took a "bad contract" to play with Dwyane Wade and half a star in Chris Bosh along with scrubs like Mario Chalmers, James Jones, a washed up Zydrunas, Bibby, Dampier, Magloire, House, and Joel Anthony. :facepalm:

The marketing schemes available for Paul to re-accrue all the potential income that he'd forsake by signing with NYK are endless considering 1.) He's with the Jordan brand/has shoe deal 2.)He's young and personable, 3.) He'd be the biggest star PG in NY since Walt Frazier.

And don't count us out this year either, people are sleeping on what Billups has left in the tank -- we took out Miami a few times last year as well if I remember correctly...


If i remember correctly the Bulls swept the regular season series against us. Boston won the regular season series against us as well. When the playoffs came around, the story changed completely.

Knicks are good and dangerous but not good enough to beat the HEAT in a 7 gm series. You think otherwise, thats cool too.

BKLYNpigeon
11-29-2011, 12:29 PM
man... if the Clippers were smarter and did not trade their 1st round pick + B-Diddy to Cleveland for Mo Williams.

They could have Kyrie Irving and then just use the Amnesty Clause on B-Diddy. they wouldnt need CP3 and could use the money for D-Howard and a Solid Bench.

UPRock
11-29-2011, 12:30 PM
New York media generates so much crap that people somehow buy into. I will never get why NY fans get into it so heavy. Do the research yourself.
This, the same happened with Lebron, and now they boo him everytime he touch the court.


More Knick talk :sigh:

It's pretty obvious Paul will not be a Knick unless he makes the sacrifice
Melo screwed the Knicks chances at being elite

This, Melo could've waited until the Free agency to sign with the Knicks, but he didn't want to. A Felton/Chandler/Melo/Amare/Turias Lineup is better than what they have, plus an excellent bench.

Chill_Will_24
11-29-2011, 12:35 PM
CP3 does want to a be a Knick.. to bad Melo said IDGAF and screwed that plan up. Its not even fair to Paul. He is eons better than Melo AND Amare and he should get paid way less than them both? :pity:

daleja424
11-29-2011, 12:40 PM
The Heat ain't nothing to emulate considering the Knicks would have the better trio of superstars.

And coming from a Heat fan, saying Paul wouldn't want to play with Amar'e and Melo with 9 filler players is absurd considering that LeBron took a "bad contract" to play with Dwyane Wade and half a star in Chris Bosh along with scrubs like Mario Chalmers, James Jones, a washed up Zydrunas, Bibby, Dampier, Magloire, House, and Joel Anthony. :facepalm:

The marketing schemes available for Paul to re-accrue all the potential income that he'd forsake by signing with NYK are endless considering 1.) He's with the Jordan brand/has shoe deal 2.)He's young and personable, 3.) He'd be the biggest star PG in NY since Walt Frazier.

And don't count us out this year either, people are sleeping on what Billups has left in the tank -- we took out Miami a few times last year as well if I remember correctly...

1. Don't make me laugh. Wade and lebron are both FAR better than Melo and Paul.

2. I notice how you dont mention the actual non-min players that they had on the heat... Mike Miller and Haslem

3. New York also has some the steepest taxes in US. He would be taking about half of what he could make in NO if he went to NY. I highly highly doubt he can make that up given that he is already a national superstar with large endorsement deals.

4. Good luck with beating Miami when your FO is sitting on its hands praying to save money so Paul will come.

VillaMaravilla
11-29-2011, 12:43 PM
Like someone said, only if he wants to take A LOT less money.

why should he, if Melo and Stat want him here then let them redo their contracts so all 3 get the same amount, other then that I wouldnt come and take less not now a days when every penny counts isnt that what the players were fighting for over the lockout "money" and now their going to be taking less dont see it happening just being a realist

mjm07
11-29-2011, 12:49 PM
^ you can't redo contracts. In other words they can't be reconstructed. Not like the NFL.

blahblahyoutoo
11-29-2011, 12:49 PM
why should he, if Melo and Stat want him here then let them redo their contracts so all 3 get the same amount, other then that I wouldnt come and take less not now a days when every penny counts isnt that what the players were fighting for over the lockout "money" and now their going to be taking less dont see it happening just being a realist

people have said redoing contracts is not legal.

daleja424
11-29-2011, 12:52 PM
In fairness Hollinger wrote that article under the presumption that the cap will stay the same 3 straight years, which I don't think has ever happened. Dolan says the cap will be around $61m in 2012, which would give NY $3m or so more to play with in which they could offer CP3 a deal starting at around $14.5m or so and maybe keep one of their young guys as well like Fields who makes less than $1m.

That being said, I posted this in the Knicks forum and so I'll post it here.

As sexy as it would be to have CP3 here, I'm starting to think Nash is the better option. CP3, via trade or FAgency is going to completely gut this team. Which means we probably have to wait til 2013 to add decent role players to really be a true contender.

I would never have thought Nash would be a good option in 2012, heck I thought he'd be too old for 2010 even 5 years ago. But he is still playing at an MVP level. Watching Kidd lead DAL to a title, there is no reason to think that Nash is going to fall off a cliff, he should be able to play another 3 years at a very high level.

Nash likely won't command a max deal and would allow us to keep Fields, Shumpert, & Douglas and perhaps another solid 2012 free agent. We would be able to contend in 2012 right away.

Harrelson/Jordan
Amare
Melo
Fields/Douglas
Nash/Shumpert

Just a heads up about the cap. The cap should be about 51 million this year, but there is a cluase in the settlement that freezes the cap at 58 million for the next two years (to ease the transition). In year 3, the cap goes back to being based on revenue. Dolan is a moron if he thinks the cap will grow next year...


The cap is only as high as it is right now b/c of that provision. if we were were trying to predict next years cap based on the actual figures, it would grow to MAYBE 53 million next year... Thus freezing the cap at 58 million actually helps the Knicks, BUT IT WILL NOT BE HIGHER THAN THAT.

bmac
11-29-2011, 12:56 PM
It will be hard for the knicks to get paul next yr but it just seems like destiny. Paul wants to be a knick, its one of the largest markets in the NBA and it would give the NBA another big 3 to compete with the Miami big 3, think of the tv ratings for those games i know id be watching them. Would it be fair to the other teams in the league no, but like we saw in the playoffs it doesnt mean theyll always win, i think chi is a big threat and maybe the nets if they could get howard and keep williams. Plus im sure david stern will somehow do something to make this possible next year. I think the salary cap will go up a bit next year so it will give the knicks a bit more money to offer to paul. I agree he would have to take way less money to sign with the knicks but i think paul just cares more about competeing for a championship and this seems like a great oppourtunity for him. Even if hes making 14.5 mil a year he will make the difference up from endorsment deals being in New York. The knicks would then have to do what the heat did last year and just sign vets to the min, but again you see how payers will take less to play for your team so im sure they could fil out their roster with decent players.

To me it just seems like this was meant to happen, And if all else fails paul goes to the clippers and makes them a legit contender for the next decade.

Dankster
11-29-2011, 12:59 PM
Well first off, you can't restructure contracts so the idea of Melo and Stat restructuring their contracts is illegal and cannot happen.

You know it's actually not that hard to analyze the situation: Do you think a guy who will immediately become the best player on the NY roster is willing to take such a drastic paycut where he's nowhere near the highest paid player on the team?

I'd kill to have Paul in NY, but it's just not plausible- we gave Stat and Melo max contracts, it's better and more realistic to just place some solid veteran pieces around them and just move forward.

ghettosean
11-29-2011, 01:04 PM
He wants to form his own big 3 in NY. It's been their plan for a couple of yrs now.
I think he understands that he's just saying that Paul can get more money in LA and still for a hell of a big 3 with Howard and Blake (if the Howard thing pans out).

D1JM
11-29-2011, 01:15 PM
Chris Paul is going to get traded. New Orleans can't afford to lose him for nothing. Clippers have the better package than the Knicks. The dark horse can be the celtics by trading Rondo.

Knickfansince97
11-29-2011, 01:57 PM
Well first off, you can't restructure contracts so the idea of Melo and Stat restructuring their contracts is illegal and cannot happen.

You know it's actually not that hard to analyze the situation: Do you think a guy who will immediately become the best player on the NY roster is willing to take such a drastic paycut where he's nowhere near the highest paid player on the team?

I'd kill to have Paul in NY, but it's just not plausible- we gave Stat and Melo max contracts, it's better and more realistic to just place some solid veteran pieces around them and just move forward.

do u think its possible since they are all best friends for melo and amare to just give a million to cp3 when he comes?:) then that would be fair

Knickfansince97
11-29-2011, 01:59 PM
i think the reason they took max contracts was because our situation isnt like the heats situation. i wouldnt take a paycut for a year or two till my friend came i would just give him a cool mil once he hits the scene:clap:

sintaks12
11-29-2011, 02:02 PM
i've been saying all along, posting in the knicks forum even, that was a piss poor trade.
melo wasn't the answer, and that contract plus the pieces they lost definitely weren't worth it.

Funny how that's a double edge sword. If they didn't get Melo last year they would have gotten DESTROYED in the media for failing to acquire a star via trade... Donnie Walsh would have been branded a loser and a failure. But in the end he gives up the necessary assets to get a second star with an outside chance at a third and he's still branded a failure because he didn't save enough to snag Paul? Without Melo, the Knicks don't look so attractive for CP3 anymore. If they miss out on Melo AND Paul, then what? Tough crowd. I for one think Paul takes the paycut and comes to NY. He always talks about wanting to win first and the Knick's situation provides the best opportunity for him, IMHO. What I can say with certainty though is that if this thread is any indication for the forum content over the next 8 months, it's gonna get ugly... and annoying.

nycericanguy
11-29-2011, 02:37 PM
also keep in mind that "extra $39m" is because he gets an extra year from NO and no one else. But a 4 year deal with NY vs a 4 year deal with NO, the difference there is about $20m.

and the difference between a 4 year deal from NY and a 4 year max deal from any other team besides NO is about $11m. So now it starts to look more possible when you compare apples to apples.

Hollinger did a good job though of putting the worst case vs best case, but its not that simple.

at the end of the day if CP3 makes it to FAgency (and reports are he wants to wait til FAgency and that the NBA will not trade him), well then you're looking at him taking maybe $11m less unless he stays in NO.

Its not as big a difference as people want to hype it up to be.

I'm still leaning more toward Nash for NY because we could build a better TEAM that way. but CP3 is still a possibility.

Punk
11-29-2011, 02:44 PM
Obviously... it is the stupid NY media that has been pumping this pipe dream into the heads of Knicks fans... setting them up for a serious let down.

This just is not going to happen... they cannot have all three b/c Melo and Amare demanded max dollars... now it is not possible for them to bring in all three...

The Media? Our President made trades that allows us to spend 14 million on a max player. Billups contract + 5 million from shedding Douglas, Fields, Walker, etc gets us enough to sign Paul in free agency. At maximum, he could get a 4-5 year deal of 70 or 75 million.

We were supposed to be "let down" by the Melo drama. How funny is it people STILL won't learn.

elonepb
11-29-2011, 02:53 PM
For what it's worth, Bucher was on the radio and said CP3 isn't going to be a Knick. Money just isn't there.

GIANTKNICK
11-29-2011, 03:00 PM
I know most of the smarter fans around here already recognized this CP3 dream as something that was being pushed mainly by the NY beat writers, but it's good to see an ESPN reporter actually break it down why it doesn't work financially - or rather, why CP3 would have to give up a TON to make it happen.

Insider article: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7292666/nba-chris-paul-knicks-highly-unlikely

I can paste it if anyone wants.

Not true. This thing actually pushed first by CP3 his self. Carmelo's wedding he was the person to start all of the speculation. The beat writers now are just trying too see if its possible.

nate2usmc
11-29-2011, 03:07 PM
CP3 is not going to be a Knick :sigh: Sucks cuz he's my fav PG but the Melo deal screwed it up. I don't blame Melo for wantin all the $$ he can get but if he did want Paul here, he wouldn't have come that route. It's just him saying good things about his buddy and vice-versa.


Now lets move on with what the Knicks have. I'm looking forward to seeing Shumpert progress, if Knicks can sign some big bodies and if Jorts & Jordan are worth anything. Maybe they can look fwd to getting Felton and Chandler back in 2013!

elonepb
11-29-2011, 03:08 PM
Not true. This thing actually pushed first by CP3 his self. Carmelo's wedding he was the person to start all of the speculation. The beat writers now are just trying too see if its possible.

Not true. Knicks beat writers are writing it as if it's destined to happen and are COMPLETELY ignoring the math behind it. Especially Berman.

If you need further proof:

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/2359916/Chris-Mas-tz_large.jpg

gotoHcarolina52
11-29-2011, 03:13 PM
All of y'all are fools. Chris Paul will be a New York Knick by January. I don't care about the math. Algebra, Geometry, Real Analysis, whatever. It doesn't matter. CP3-Melo-Amar'e. The Knicks will get them all.

Haters gonna hate. SMH. :pity:

:facepalm:

nate2usmc
11-29-2011, 03:24 PM
I know Reke has to be posting in this thread under another name lol

goNYgoNYgo
11-29-2011, 03:26 PM
WOW. I just read the article and way to mislead.

Yes, cp3 would lose 40 million if he came to ny. BUT, that's in general. If he leaves NO for any team he'd be losing 30 million. And 20 of that 40 million is the extra year. So that's potential earnings that he can get back when the knicks would resign him after his contract is up.(Point is its not a big deal, he is not losing that money, he will get it when he resigns)

So the difference is 10 million of him signing with the knicks compared to signing with any other team, or 20 million if he stays in NO. He is not staying with the hornets. period.
And that extra 10 million, ummm yea he'll make that in one year just on endorsements in nyc. Did you guys see how big of a deal they made with melo's shoe coming out while in nyc. The media will make him the difference plus more.

This guy just loves to bash on the knicks. He said it's not a possibility, wtf is that then.

nate2usmc
11-29-2011, 03:38 PM
Not true. Knicks beat writers are writing it as if it's destined to happen and are COMPLETELY ignoring the math behind it. Especially Berman.

If you need further proof:

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/2359916/Chris-Mas-tz_large.jpg

Agreed. Berman probably thinks the cap is at 80 mill lol

BigCityofDreams
11-29-2011, 03:49 PM
I think he understands that he's just saying that Paul can get more money in LA and still for a hell of a big 3 with Howard and Blake (if the Howard thing pans out).

Can LAC offer him a max deal?

jonline87
11-29-2011, 03:49 PM
Will laugh at you all when CP3 is a Knick. Sure, the math supports the fact that they don't have enough $ to sign him as a free agent. But there is no math to refute the fact that CP3 wants to be a Knick. Knowing that he doesn't want to remain a Hornet, they will try to trade him. The Knicks obviously don't have much to offer, but there is no team that will make a better offer knowing that CP3 will only sign an extension with NY. This is the same thing that happened with Melo, not just the way it happened, but the way people were saying there's absolutely no chance he would become a Knick. It takes a truly closed-minded person to not absorb what just happened with Melo and say that there's no way CP3 will be a Knick. It's really funny actually how stupid you guys are. :p

Kashmir13579
11-29-2011, 03:53 PM
Lets just wait and see, it seems like a pipe dream at this point, but who knows what can happen.

:clap:

jonline87
11-29-2011, 03:54 PM
Additionally, for all of you saying, why doesn't he team up with Blake and Howard, or X and Y, etc. You're forgetting that Paul is best buds with Melo and Stat. And NY is NY. Nobody wants to play for the Clippers LOL.

DMasta718
11-29-2011, 03:57 PM
If he comes to Knicks, that would be really awesome but even if he doesn't at least we have cap space to make some needed upgrades for our team. Too bad we are going to go to this speculation and rumors BS for another year.

BigCityofDreams
11-29-2011, 03:58 PM
Additionally, for all of you saying, why doesn't he team up with Blake and Howard, or X and Y, etc. You're forgetting that Paul is best buds with Melo and Stat. And NY is NY. Nobody wants to play for the Clippers LOL.

Too be fair the Clippers are building a nice team. Their fan base has to hope Sterling doesn't f it up.

Fresno
11-29-2011, 04:00 PM
WOW. I just read the article and way to mislead.

Yes, cp3 would lose 40 million if he came to ny. BUT, that's in general. If he leaves NO for any team he'd be losing 30 million. And 20 of that 40 million is the extra year. So that's potential earnings that he can get back when the knicks would resign him after his contract is up.(Point is its not a big deal, he is not losing that money, he will get it when he resigns)

So the difference is 10 million of him signing with the knicks compared to signing with any other team, or 20 million if he stays in NO. He is not staying with the hornets. period.
And that extra 10 million, ummm yea he'll make that in one year just on endorsements in nyc. Did you guys see how big of a deal they made with melo's shoe coming out while in nyc. The media will make him the difference plus more.

This guy just loves to bash on the knicks. He said it's not a possibility, wtf is that then.

Bingo.

Chris Paul's endorsement viability goes up 300% playing in New York City.

Amare & Melo's endorsements have gone up and they haven't even played for more than 1 season there or been past Round 1. Chris Paul has his own line of shoes, along with TV endorsements with Right Guard, Powerade, & Toyota despite playing in New Orleans.

bholly
11-29-2011, 04:38 PM
also keep in mind that "extra $39m" is because he gets an extra year from NO and no one else. But a 4 year deal with NY vs a 4 year deal with NO, the difference there is about $20m.

and the difference between a 4 year deal from NY and a 4 year max deal from any other team besides NO is about $11m. So now it starts to look more possible when you compare apples to apples.

Hollinger did a good job though of putting the worst case vs best case, but its not that simple.


WOW. I just read the article and way to mislead.

Yes, cp3 would lose 40 million if he came to ny. BUT, that's in general. If he leaves NO for any team he'd be losing 30 million. And 20 of that 40 million is the extra year. So that's potential earnings that he can get back when the knicks would resign him after his contract is up.(Point is its not a big deal, he is not losing that money, he will get it when he resigns)

So the difference is 10 million of him signing with the knicks compared to signing with any other team, or 20 million if he stays in NO. He is not staying with the hornets. period.

Yeah, the same misleading way of reporting contracts happened in the LBJ offseason. I ran the numbers yesterday (before Hollinger's story came out) for 4 year contracts:
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=19891876&postcount=24

I made similar assumptions (NYK renounce everything, give away Shumpert and Balkman, don't make any more picks, so they have only Melo, Stat, and cap room - this is the best case scenario that lets them offer the most to CP3). Found that the Knicks have ~$13.743 in cap room to offer, meaning he'd have to take a paycut of $3.435m in the first year from his max of $17.178m. This would mean his paycut is $14.696 over 4 years when compared to signing a max somewhere else, or $15.364m over 4 years when compared to signing a max with the Hornets (or getting traded and extending).

It's in between the $10m and $20m you guys are claiming.



Teams need to realize frontloading contracts is the best way to build your team. Take the hit early and build much more freely

I think teams are aware of it, it's just hard. I don't even think you can do it with max contracts, and in the case of Melo neither the Knicks nor the Nuggets had the cap room to do it anyway.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-29-2011, 05:52 PM
Will laugh at you all when CP3 is a Knick. Sure, the math supports the fact that they don't have enough $ to sign him as a free agent. But there is no math to refute the fact that CP3 wants to be a Knick. Knowing that he doesn't want to remain a Hornet, they will try to trade him. The Knicks obviously don't have much to offer, but there is no team that will make a better offer knowing that CP3 will only sign an extension with NY. This is the same thing that happened with Melo, not just the way it happened, but the way people were saying there's absolutely no chance he would become a Knick. It takes a truly closed-minded person to not absorb what just happened with Melo and say that there's no way CP3 will be a Knick. It's really funny actually how stupid you guys are. :p

:laugh2:

Knicks had the pieces to get Melo, now they have basically nothing to trade with hornets. And no he's not gonna take a huge paycut while Melo and amare are hogging like 75% of the cap:facepalm:

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-29-2011, 05:57 PM
Additionally, for all of you saying, why doesn't he team up with Blake and Howard, or X and Y, etc. You're forgetting that Paul is best buds with Melo and Stat. And NY is NY. Nobody wants to play for the Clippers LOL.

sure, thats why melo and amare signed max deals so CP3 could not come to the knicks.

bringinwood
11-29-2011, 06:19 PM
This is one of the built in safe guards for competitive balance within a capped system... I, personally, love it....

If Paul goes to the Knicks, I stop watching the NBA...

Why would you when you would only have 4 legitimate title contenders in the whole league ????

Tell me the next 5 NBA titles wouldn't all be from either the Knicks, Heat, Lakers, or Thunder...

gwrighter
11-29-2011, 06:23 PM
Agree with Hollinger. CP3 will have to take considerably less to join the Knicks. If he does do that then there is nothing any of us can do and more power to him but if he acts like the majority of players he will end up signing somewhere else. Most likely a S&T to a young team with potential.

NY got robbed when they traded their whole team for melo, we all knew he was going to sign there anyways, should have waited for him, said that then, standing by that now.

Evolution23
11-29-2011, 07:30 PM
No body thought Lebron would take a pay cut either. Also the 3 million lost can be made up in endorsements in the NY market. Look at how much money Stat and Melo are making from sneaker deals. If CP3 wants to win he has a great chance to do it in NY. If you don't think the combination of Melo, Cp3, and Amare is a contending team, idk what to tell u.

justinnum1
11-29-2011, 07:32 PM
No body thought Lebron would take a pay cut either. Also the 3 million lost can be made up in endorsements in the NY market. Look at how much money Stat and Melo are making from sneaker deals. If CP3 wants to win he has a great chance to do it in NY. If you don't think the combination of Melo, Cp3, and Amare is a contending team, idk what to tell u.

Its not just 3 mil...its more like 40-50mil

kartyea
11-29-2011, 07:55 PM
Its not just 3 mil...its more like 40-50mil

yeah it really is, you all are adding up the total money if he would stay in NO. How much did Lebron lose for not resigning with CLE well over three million. A lot of you guys in here are hating on the Knicks. Just know this everyone of you are gonna get a heavy dose of knick fans throwing it in your face. I already know how you'll deflect it, you'll probably start a propaganda campaign on how CP3 isn't one of the best pg's in the league anymore lol, good luck with the smear campaign haters!!!!!:rock:

Tony_Starks
11-29-2011, 08:40 PM
FYI the endorsement money he would make in NY is huge and he's good friends with Melo and STAT. When you think about it along those lines its not that far fetched........

WadeKobe
11-29-2011, 09:03 PM
I'm not sure how he's ****ing all over the Knicks. He's just taking a story that has somehow become an afterthought of fact, and showing why it's not true. He also says Deron Williams and Dwight Howard will also lose $40M by signing somewhere else.

$40M is a LOT to give up for anybody.

1) I find it funny that Knicks fans didn't do the math or ***** when Amar'e made sure to get a max guaranteed deal, and Melo got the max also. Didn't they realize it wasn't going to work? It worked in Miami because the possible cuts were made by all 3 players sacrificing a bit. In NY, two players didn't sacrifice anything, and would require the 3rd (who is easily the best of the 3) to sacrifice a ton. Not gonna happen.

2) If Paul is going to give up $40m, he might as well sign with Miami for the MLE and have an actual shot at a chip.

KnicksR4Real
11-29-2011, 09:15 PM
Watch in learn folks, watch and learn.

nycericanguy
11-29-2011, 09:19 PM
yeah it really is, you all are adding up the total money if he would stay in NO. How much did Lebron lose for not resigning with CLE well over three million. A lot of you guys in here are hating on the Knicks. Just know this everyone of you are gonna get a heavy dose of knick fans throwing it in your face. I already know how you'll deflect it, you'll probably start a propaganda campaign on how CP3 isn't one of the best pg's in the league anymore lol, good luck with the smear campaign haters!!!!!:rock:

lol, at most its $39m and thats if you add in the extra year, now you're saying $40-50m?...lol :rolleyes:

EDIT : sorry responded to wrong post.

KnicksR4Real
11-29-2011, 09:19 PM
he has his opinion. people can be wrong

ManRam
11-29-2011, 09:19 PM
Shouldn't take John Hollinger's brain to make this clear. It's pretty obvious why it's gonna be hard for the Knicks to get him...

daleja424
11-29-2011, 09:22 PM
Shouldn't take John Hollinger's brain to make this clear. It's pretty obvious why it's gonna be hard for the Knicks to get him...

...you were saying.

Hollinger writes an article with Facts and Figures... and people come in and say:


he has his opinion. people can be wrong

:facepalm:

don'tfireNedCo
11-29-2011, 09:25 PM
man... if the Clippers were smarter and did not trade their 1st round pick + B-Diddy to Cleveland for Mo Williams.

They could have Kyrie Irving and then just use the Amnesty Clause on B-Diddy. they wouldnt need CP3 and could use the money for D-Howard and a Solid Bench.

lmao. amnesty clause for donald turkowitz sterling? DTS will pay out a contract as big as barons not to play for him? yeah you really know your basketball:facepalm:
what neil olshey did was the best move he could possibly make to make us competitive in a long run, and kyrie is all hype.


Can LAC offer him a max deal?

yes. yes we can.

justinnum1
11-29-2011, 09:29 PM
he has his opinion. people can be wrong

Too bad he is reporting off FACTS, which are not wrong.

Knicks21
11-29-2011, 09:40 PM
Too bad he is reporting off FACTS, which are not wrong.

If you believe that the 10 best players in the league are also the 10 players who lead the league in PER it is opinion.

People just get pissed off with him because he will always shed negative light on the knicks as well as other such as the lakers and use nothing but figures to back up his argument. People question if he actually watches the games. It's always a New York can't do this, and New York have had the fourth easiest schedule so far and they will be brought back to reality. Never a positive moment about the knicks in his writings which is why knicks fans think he is the ultimate tool.

KnicksR4Real
11-29-2011, 09:40 PM
Bottom line, money isn't the problem. If you haven't read, the Knicks have cap room to sign Chris Paul. Ever heard of endorsements? He'd make more money being a Knick than any other team. He could also take less money to be on a winning team. It's not far fetched chief.

Knicks21
11-29-2011, 09:46 PM
lmao. amnesty clause for donald turkowitz sterling? DTS will pay out a contract as big as barons not to play for him? yeah you really know your basketball:facepalm:
what neil olshey did was the best move he could possibly make to make us competitive in a long run, and kyrie is all hype.



yes. yes we can.

If Chris Paul goes to LAC for a max, Eric Gordon needs to get paid, Jordan needs to get paid, and Blake will eventually get max money. Im not exactly sure what the new rules are but either you will be over the cap big time, or some players may have to be let go. With Blake, Chris Paul and Eric Gordon you are still not good enough to beat the heat. Close, but whats the point of being close. People build teams like this to win.

Besides Sterling is in charge, so as much as people think he will go clippers, think again. What would Sterling do?

Knicks21
11-29-2011, 09:47 PM
Bottom line, money isn't the problem. If you haven't read, the Knicks have cap room to sign Chris Paul. Ever heard of endorsements? He'd make more money being a Knick than any other team. He could also take less money to be on a winning team. It's not far fetched chief.

Paul says this over and over again.

northsider
11-29-2011, 09:49 PM
Paul says this over and over again.

Can't really think of many players who would say it is about the money but, at the end of the day it is about the money.

Knicks21
11-29-2011, 09:51 PM
Can't really think of many players who would say it is about the money but, at the end of the day it is about the money.

Point taken.

NYKnicks4511
11-30-2011, 01:28 AM
1. Don't make me laugh. Wade and lebron are both FAR better than Melo and Paul.

2. I notice how you dont mention the actual non-min players that they had on the heat... Mike Miller and Haslem

3. New York also has some the steepest taxes in US. He would be taking about half of what he could make in NO if he went to NY. I highly highly doubt he can make that up given that he is already a national superstar with large endorsement deals.

4. Good luck with beating Miami when your FO is sitting on its hands praying to save money so Paul will come.

1. Wade = Paul, LeBron > Melo, Amar'e >Bosh -- if it happens we'll come back to this topic.

2. My mistake, I'll add Mike Miller to the list of scrubs as well. (6 ppg 5 rpg last year). Haslem is a good role player but hell, Kwame could put up 8/8 for the Knicks, Kurt Thomas at age 30-whatever could come close as well.

3. New York is one of the largest markets in the world, hence making marketing easy, and highly profitable. I don't think taxes will end up having a significant impact on Paul's decision to come to NY or not.

4. We'll see this season (glad I can finally say that), but the Knicks aren't a joke anymore. Regardless of whether or not we get Cp3, or put together an actual team, we'll be competitive and a dark horse to win it all come playoff time.