PDA

View Full Version : Brandon Roy on way out in Portland.



dnewguy
11-28-2011, 09:57 PM
Brandon's out, a league executive told me Monday. "Don't know the exact details, but everyone around the league knows it's way, way done. Paul and Bert (Kolde) are calling the shots on this one.

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf/2011/11/canzano_blazers_appear_set_to.html

The Bulls should be on the phone with some other team way below luxury tax, they just got their SG.

Your thoughts?

Hawkeye15
11-28-2011, 09:58 PM
Thoughts? Rick Adelman has been rumored to want Roy. He will be a Wolf.

Hawkeye15
11-28-2011, 09:59 PM
Sorry large market teams....

"You can't always get, what you want" (Mickster)

dnewguy
11-28-2011, 09:59 PM
Thoughts? Rick Adelman has been rumored to want Roy. He will be a Wolf.

Boring! I hope the Bulls get him and the Heat get a solid C, that would be more interesting for the league.

Hawkeye15
11-28-2011, 10:01 PM
Boring! I hope the Bulls get him and the Heat get a solid C, that would be more interesting for the league.

Wouldn't be more interesting for me, and that is all I really care about :)

dodie53
11-28-2011, 10:01 PM
suns med staff will do wonders for roy
:)

Hawkeye15
11-28-2011, 10:02 PM
suns med staff will do wonders for roy
:)

seriously, its as if they have the fountain of youth hot tub in their locker room.

rapjuicer06
11-28-2011, 10:03 PM
Orlando! Portland wanted Hedo, trade for him with Roy. Would be a good fit for both :D

mrblisterdundee
11-28-2011, 10:03 PM
You can't hate Roy, but you can sure hate his contract. He is a natural addition to a title-contending team, and Chicago makes total sense. You add Korver and Brewer together, and they equal what Roy can provide if you rest his knees enough.

29$JerZ
11-28-2011, 10:04 PM
Bulls and Knicks need Roy the most but neither will claim him

kblo247
11-28-2011, 10:05 PM
I wouldn't want him. He is an interesting gamble with the right knee doctors in the area. Bynum more than fills my quota for gimps. He also wouldn't fit because he likes to have the ball in his hands too much which isn't an issue as much with a rookie as opposed to proven talent who has won.

I think LAL has far more interest in Baron. Chicago has far more interest in completing a Mayo deal with Memphis needing to sign Battier and open up minutes and shots for a returning Gay, especially since JR won't have his deal voided. Heat have far more interest in getting a big as do the Knicks. Nets most likely look at AK. I can also see Otis going after half man, half heart for an odd reason just like his stupid *** brought Turk back

Hawkeye15
11-28-2011, 10:07 PM
at some point, many of you will understand the following:

1- there will be very few amnesty cuts
2- for the productive players cut, the contenders have no chance of landing them

29$JerZ
11-28-2011, 10:11 PM
I have to endure Mason and Jeffries again because if these rules :sigh:

Dankster
11-28-2011, 10:14 PM
LOL 29, dont remind me about those 2 guys. I agree Roy would make a valuable addition to any contender. Watching him late last year I was surprised to see how effective he can still be in games; he played some pretty inspiring basketball at the end of the season...

chicago lulz
11-28-2011, 10:15 PM
Would be nice if he makes it out of the bidding war, if he is cut. Agreed, that there won't be many players cut.

Quite excited for some moves to happen.

j-bay
11-28-2011, 10:18 PM
wizards looking for a back up pg. could replace nick young with him

llemon
11-28-2011, 10:31 PM
From what I've read, the teams with room under the cap that are interested in Roy will submit 'silent offers'.

What amount will the largest 'silent bid' be for?

I'm curious.

GoPacers33
11-28-2011, 10:33 PM
Plz don't go to chi town

iliketurtles24
11-28-2011, 10:34 PM
wolves will get him

Bulls_fan90
11-28-2011, 10:38 PM
Poor guy. Hope he doesn't get stuck in Minnesota. Always admired him as a player, hope he lands with a contender.

oldfishermen
11-28-2011, 10:43 PM
http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf/2011/11/canzano_blazers_appear_set_to.html


Your thoughts?

My thoughts about this tabloid journalism?

There is a very good reason the author of this article is known by the Blazer fans as “THE CLOWN”. He has very little, if any, credibility left among Blazer fans. I do not believe a word he says or writes. I stopped reading his junk years ago. His local radio show is a joke. I wish he would move back to California. The Clown has worn out his welcome here in Portland.

The Clown is the worst thing that ever happened to the Blazers. He goes after Blazer’s owner Paul Allen every chance he gets because Mr. Allen refuses to give him an interview.

mdm692
11-28-2011, 10:45 PM
As soon as roy is cut, suns cut warrick and with VC amnestied we get Roy. Then just package a small deal for a pf. =D

Hawkeye15
11-28-2011, 10:46 PM
Poor guy. Hope he doesn't get stuck in Minnesota. Always admired him as a player, hope he lands with a contender.

totally. Who would want to land in a place with Kevin Love, Rubio, Adelman, Williams, and tons of money while getting paid $18 million a year?

UPRock
11-28-2011, 10:51 PM
If he can play like in the Blazers, and he signs with the Bulls they'll certainly be title contenders. Rose/Roy/Deng/Boozer/Noah is scary.

lavilevi23
11-28-2011, 10:54 PM
any team but the Bulls pleasee! :pray:

Htownballa1622
11-28-2011, 10:55 PM
totally. Who would want to land in a place with Kevin Love, Rubio, Adelman, Williams, and tons of money while getting paid $18 million a year?


at some point, many of you will understand the following:

1- there will be very few amnesty cuts
2- for the productive players cut, the contenders have no chance of landing them
I'm glad you said this. Isn't just one time throughout this cba that you may amnesty a player?ppl aren't going to just amnesty in year one just to amnesty a bad contract.they'll wait for that horrid contract.

kblo247
11-28-2011, 10:58 PM
totally. Who would want to land in a place with Kevin Love, Rubio, Adelman, Williams, and tons of money while getting paid $18 million a year?

A screwed up knee and cold weather, not perfect by any scenario. I can see him welcoming the move for the sole fact he can go in there and dominate the ball, get up shots, and basically evaluate what he has left in the tank without and how he needs to redefine his game ala Ron Harper, without the big market media scrutiny

Kevj77
11-28-2011, 10:58 PM
From what I've read, the teams with room under the cap that are interested in Roy will submit 'silent offers'.

What amount will the largest 'silent bid' be for?

I'm curious.I like the silent bid. Teams will have to make competitive bids if they really want a player or lose to a team willing to spend more.

I'd say the winning bid on Roy would be somewhere around the MLE, perhaps 5-6 million.

CityofTreez
11-28-2011, 10:58 PM
Love Brandon Roy.

If this is true, hope he goes to a team that kind of compares to the Blazers, so he still is the go-to-guy.

KnicksorBust
11-28-2011, 10:59 PM
totally. Who would want to land in a place with Kevin Love, Rubio, Adelman, Williams, and tons of money while getting paid $18 million a year?

Not since the days of Garnett has Minny sounded so good. I don't think Roy would be a good signing for the T-Wolves though.

KnicksR4Real
11-28-2011, 11:06 PM
Chitown

kblo247
11-28-2011, 11:10 PM
I'm glad you said this. Isn't just one time throughout this cba that you may amnesty a player?ppl aren't going to just amnesty in year one just to amnesty a bad contract.they'll wait for that horrid contract.

You can only amnesty current deals from the last CBA. There will be no waiting to the next mistake under this one. There may be a waiting to use it basically as a trade chip to take back a horrid contract for Dwight, Deron, or Paul.

That said what I don't think people get is that you have to be under the cap, including cap holds to make a bid. Minny, Cavs, Sacramento, Hornets, Indiana, Nets, Clippers, and Wizards are the major players.

Many of those rosters are constructed as such that Baron and Gilbert will skate through the process because none of the teams above need or want them mentoring their PGs. If Artest is cut very few will make a bid because of his past. I don't really get Lewis being cut because the Wizards need to match the minimum salary as a team and his deal is crucial to doing that, unless they are willing to pay part of his deal and still spend on other talent. Then there is a player like Mike Miller who likely gets scooped up against his will. Roy gets plenty of bids because he is a gamble you can brag about. And if detorit throws a curve and puts Ben Gordon on the wire over Charlie or Rip, he gets bids galore.

Evolution23
11-28-2011, 11:12 PM
Sorry large market teams....

"You can't always get, what you want" (Mickster)

is it a good idea for the wolves to sign a injured Roy?

Bulls_fan90
11-28-2011, 11:12 PM
totally. Who would want to land in a place with Kevin Love, Rubio, Adelman, Williams, and tons of money while getting paid $18 million a year?

Love and two players that have never played in the NBA? Ok.

Wolves have a great future but I don't know if Brandon Roy will still be around when these players start to hit their prime.

dnewguy
11-28-2011, 11:15 PM
any team but the Bulls pleasee! :pray:

You should be ashamed of yourself, we have the 2 greatest player in the game today and you're scare of whatever the Bulls do? As long as they don't get Dwight Howard they will always play second fiddle at their best.

Where's KG?
11-28-2011, 11:15 PM
You can't hate Roy, but you can sure hate his contract. He is a natural addition to a title-contending team, and Chicago makes total sense. You add Korver and Brewer together, and they equal what Roy can provide if you rest his knees enough.

Note the Bolded Text

2011/2012 - 14.9mil
2012/2013 - 16.3mil
2013/2014 - 17.8 mil - Player Option
2014/2015 - 19.2mil - Team Option

This is where the Amnesty Clause will kick in. Someone will get him for 6-7 mil and the Blazers still pay the rest. Frees up cap room for the team in need, and gives a team with Cap room a way to improve.

Hawkeye15
11-28-2011, 11:20 PM
A screwed up knee and cold weather, not perfect by any scenario. I can see him welcoming the move for the sole fact he can go in there and dominate the ball, get up shots, and basically evaluate what he has left in the tank without and how he needs to redefine his game ala Ron Harper, without the big market media scrutiny

I am so happy to see you back lol.

Great insight bro. I mean that.

Stack_NJNets
11-28-2011, 11:23 PM
The wolves backcourt is to jam packed to fit Roy. He goes to Chi, or Boston..

MrfadeawayJB
11-28-2011, 11:26 PM
I expect the bulls to be a key team in the mix....however if i'm roy, i got to PHX

Hawkeye15
11-28-2011, 11:28 PM
Love and two players that have never played in the NBA? Ok.

Wolves have a great future but I don't know if Brandon Roy will still be around when these players start to hit their prime.

Love, Beasley, Wes Johnson, Rubio, Williams, Randolph, Roy, and Adelman leading them.

Better?

Hawkeye15
11-28-2011, 11:29 PM
The wolves backcourt is to jam packed to fit Roy. He goes to Chi, or Boston..

No way on earth every team under the cap lets Roy slip thru and go to a contender.

OaklandsFinest
11-28-2011, 11:32 PM
If he can play like in the Blazers, and he signs with the Bulls they'll certainly be title contenders. Rose/Roy/Deng/Boozer/Noah is scary.

This line up looks great on paper, but Roy likes to play with the ball in his hands, thats why he and Andre Miller never got along. I like the Bulls too, so I hope he and Rose could make it happen.

topdog
11-28-2011, 11:33 PM
No way on earth every team under the cap lets Roy slip thru and go to a contender.

The question is: who will the highest bidder be? Worst case scenario (for everyone) is Jordan writing down the biggest number.

basketball3553
11-28-2011, 11:34 PM
No way he gets all the way to the Bulls. His knees are terrible, but at the discount that he can be had at someone else is bound to jump at him before them.

Bulls_fan90
11-28-2011, 11:36 PM
Love, Beasley, Wes Johnson, Rubio, Williams, Randolph, Roy, and Adelman leading them.

Better?

Hopefully they can win more than 17 games this season.

Hawkeye15
11-28-2011, 11:37 PM
Hopefully they can win more than 17 games this season.

I will virtually guarantee they win more than 17 games, even with a 66 game season.

29$JerZ
11-28-2011, 11:41 PM
I'm surprised the Nuggets aren't getting mentioned.

ChiSox219
11-28-2011, 11:43 PM
No one takes this as a bad sign for Brandon Roy's career? If the Blazers thought he had anything left, why would they amnesty him right away?

29$JerZ
11-28-2011, 11:45 PM
If you are going to have 2 knee injured riddled players you dump the long term contract. Oden still has another year at a modest price for Centers to turn around. Roy is pretty much not worth the money as a role player.

BallIsAll
11-29-2011, 12:01 AM
No one takes this as a bad sign for Brandon Roy's career? If the Blazers thought he had anything left, why would they amnesty him right away?


they havent seen him since the lockout started...


i hope the nuggs bid on him

Punk
11-29-2011, 12:05 AM
Thoughts? Rick Adelman has been rumored to want Roy. He will be a Wolf.

A healthy Roy under Adelman is so scary. I hope he gets healthy.

Hawkeye15
11-29-2011, 12:07 AM
No one takes this as a bad sign for Brandon Roy's career? If the Blazers thought he had anything left, why would they amnesty him right away?

$$, and Wesley Matthews.

jimbobjarree
11-29-2011, 12:19 AM
wouldn't mind him on the Jazz, but I doubt the organisation would take the risk

njnets
11-29-2011, 01:35 AM
the suns medical staff has done wonders for people. if he could somehow get there, i really think the old brandon roy has a shot at returning and being consistent again.

CeeDub15
11-29-2011, 01:38 AM
Hopefully they can win more than 17 games this season.

lol, your adding Adelman, D-Will, Rubio, AR (got here late in the season, had been sitting on the bench all year, i doubt he was totally ready to go) to this years team that wasn't on last years, along with the expected development of Wes Johnson and hopefully Beasley's foot is fully healthy (have to imagine it is). Adelman lead a Rockets team that wasn't even that good and made them look better than they were. I guaruntee we win more than 17 games, would be open to a sig bet.

Hellcrooner
11-29-2011, 01:49 AM
Thoughts? Rick Adelman has been rumored to want Roy. He will be a Wolf.

For gods sake

NO ROY

Roys mr " Mac? you have to start blake and sit andre miller because he has teh ball in his hands too much time,and i want to create my own shot and have the ball in my hands 100% of the time because im the star , if you dont sit him i will start pouting and go up to Owner to fire you"

Chronz
11-29-2011, 01:50 AM
at some point, many of you will understand the following:

1- there will be very few amnesty cuts
2- for the productive players cut, the contenders have no chance of landing them

Why so certain?

BKLYNpigeon
11-29-2011, 02:03 AM
If Portland uses the amnesty clause on Roy, he cant choose where he wants to go.

its a bidding war that will go on for Roy.

advantage, small market teams with cap space. im sure he will get a MLE at around 5 mil.

HouRealCoach
11-29-2011, 03:26 AM
I still think he can contribute in a big way... He's so young

3mikee_
11-29-2011, 03:30 AM
He's so young but he has no knees..

abe_froman
11-29-2011, 03:35 AM
No one takes this as a bad sign for Brandon Roy's career? If the Blazers thought he had anything left, why would they amnesty him right away?

doesnt matter,you can live off your name way after your done,he'll get overpaid by someone with the hopes that he has something left

Chicagofaithful
11-29-2011, 05:07 AM
You should be ashamed of yourself, we have the 2 greatest player in the game today and you're scare of whatever the Bulls do? As long as they don't get Dwight Howard they will always play second fiddle at their best.

but i thought basketball was a team sport? hmm.. all these years.

RevisIsland
11-29-2011, 05:31 AM
Someone could get a very nice bench piece out of this.

iam brett favre
11-29-2011, 05:33 AM
I'd take him in Utah

Bruno
11-29-2011, 06:26 AM
Thoughts? Rick Adelman has been rumored to want Roy. He will be a Wolf.


Sorry large market teams....

"You can't always get, what you want" (Mickster)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSl_yGp0Wew

DitchDat
11-29-2011, 07:14 AM
If he can play like in the Blazers, and he signs with the Bulls they'll certainly be title contenders. Rose/Roy/Deng/Boozer/Noah is scary.

No he can't. Why do you think the Andre Miller-Roy pairing didn't work? They both need the ball in their hands. With Rose + Roy in the backcourt, one of them would just be standing around.

I would like to see Roy on the Boston bench as a backup to Rondo. He would mesh well with Ray, and he can also play with D West. Boston would be a good situation for him.

Knicks21
11-29-2011, 07:22 AM
No Surprises here. Could of picked it from a mile away.

northsider
11-29-2011, 07:25 AM
I will be honest that this is such a let down. I really hope he something left cause the kid was well on his way to super stardom.

Blink
11-29-2011, 08:25 AM
Hell why not throw Detroits name in there :D

tcav701
11-29-2011, 09:42 AM
You people saying he's going to an over the cap team needs to learn the rules hahaha.

Sure he would look great on the Bulls or Celtics but it wont happen.

Wolves- Try and fix that Roye/Foye swap....yuck
Hornets-Not a huge player in this but might want to appease CP3
Pacers- Get rid of that ******* Rush for making comments about 9-5 jobs.
Suns- Just Beacuse.
Cavs- Just to be an *******.
Bobcats-Amnest Magette, take Roy.

BranWingss
11-29-2011, 10:31 AM
Love Brandon Roy.

If this is true, hope he goes to a team that kind of compares to the Blazers, so he still is the go-to-guy.

Phoenix is just too perfect.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-29-2011, 10:59 AM
As soon as roy is cut, suns cut warrick and with VC amnestied we get Roy. Then just package a small deal for a pf. =D

why would you amnesty VC, while his contract is only partially guaranteed:facepalm:

Chronz
11-29-2011, 10:59 AM
lol, your adding Adelman, D-Will, Rubio, AR (got here late in the season, had been sitting on the bench all year, i doubt he was totally ready to go) to this years team that wasn't on last years, along with the expected development of Wes Johnson and hopefully Beasley's foot is fully healthy (have to imagine it is). Adelman lead a Rockets team that wasn't even that good and made them look better than they were. I guaruntee we win more than 17 games, would be open to a sig bet.

False, if anything hes held them back the last few years, hes just lucky JVG/Thibs drilled defense into alot of their players before finally forgetting how to play it under Adelman.

Sly Guy
11-29-2011, 12:23 PM
it's the best move for portland, but I really do feel for the guy. He's worked his *** off for that franchise. I wish the amnesty clause would include a standard contract buyout which wouldn't count against the cap. The amnesty clause shouldn't be a 'get out of jail free' card for the organizations who make bad contracts.

Hawkeye15
11-29-2011, 12:49 PM
Why so certain?

Because the real harsh penalties don't come this year, so contenders may hold on to some of the amnesty victims another year. Besides, most experts are hearing there won't be very many cuts right away.

Hawkeye15
11-29-2011, 12:51 PM
doesnt matter,you can live off your name way after your done,he'll get overpaid by someone with the hopes that he has something left

Actually, any player waived in amnesty will not get paid a single dollar more. The teams under the cap will bid on a portion of his deal they will pay, and then the club that waived them will pick up the remainder.

Example: Roy is paid $15 million a year over the next 3 years. Denver wins the bid at $4 million. Portland would now owe him $11 million a year over the next 3 years.

Hawkeye15
11-29-2011, 12:52 PM
False, if anything hes held them back the last few years, hes just lucky JVG/Thibs drilled defense into alot of their players before finally forgetting how to play it under Adelman.

explain.

Sly Guy
11-29-2011, 12:54 PM
Actually, any player waived in amnesty will not get paid a single dollar more. The teams under the cap will bid on a portion of his deal they will pay, and then the club that waived them will pick up the remainder.

Example: Roy is paid $15 million a year over the next 3 years. Denver wins the bid at $4 million. Portland would now owe him $11 million a year over the next 3 years.

would that $11mil count against the cap? I'm trying to figure out the nuances of this new CBA, I jsut got used to the old one and they go change everything up on me

Hawkeye15
11-29-2011, 12:56 PM
would that $11mil count against the cap? I'm trying to figure out the nuances of this new CBA, I jsut got used to the old one and they go change everything up on me

It would not count against the cap.

ShakeN'Bake
11-29-2011, 12:57 PM
would that $11mil count against the cap? I'm trying to figure out the nuances of this new CBA, I jsut got used to the old one and they go change everything up on me

I thought the point of the cut was to create cap space so it wouldnt make sense if it did. I don't know though, I am just as lost as you.

miller74
11-29-2011, 01:07 PM
Allan Houston the 2nd?

Hawkeye15
11-29-2011, 01:07 PM
Allan Houston the 2nd?

seems that way.

Chronz
11-29-2011, 01:28 PM
explain.
I thought I did by stating how they have all regressed defensively. On top of that he made Yao worse, had JVG had the talent he had they would have dominated.

kblo247
11-29-2011, 01:29 PM
Actually, any player waived in amnesty will not get paid a single dollar more. The teams under the cap will bid on a portion of his deal they will pay, and then the club that waived them will pick up the remainder.

Example: Roy is paid $15 million a year over the next 3 years. Denver wins the bid at $4 million. Portland would now owe him $11 million a year over the next 3 years.

The players clear waivers if they aren't bid on and there will be a few who don't get a bid because of character or past issues (Baron, Ron, Gilbert) . David Aldridge said so last night. The thing is it hasn't been clearly defined yet if once they clear waivers the salary payment works the same way as being paid while in the waiver wire for 2 days, which is why he said they were still fine tuning that part in the new cba.

Hawkeye15
11-29-2011, 01:36 PM
I thought I did by stating how they have all regressed defensively. On top of that he made Yao worse, had JVG had the talent he had they would have dominated.

Well, any time you trade for Kevin Martin your defense gets worse. Yao's injuries also hurt their paint protection numbers. Hayes is a good position defender, but he can't stop a guy who burys him on the block. I think the defensive talent regressed to a point and Battier was also going through the again process. Maybe I am reaching, but I have watched a lot of Rockets games, and Adelman also had to deal with a lot of players with overlapping skillsets and find ways to get them on the floor.

Hawkeye15
11-29-2011, 01:38 PM
The players clear waivers if they aren't bid on and there will be a few who don't get a bid because of character or past issues (Baron, Ron, Gilbert) . David Aldridge said so last night. The thing is it hasn't been clearly defined yet if once they clear waivers the salary payment works the same way as being paid while in the waiver wire for 2 days, which is why he said they were still fine tuning that part in the new cba.

I could see a couple of guys not even being bid on. Obviously if they are not bid on, they hit the over the tax teams to bid on, correct? Or do they just become FA's? I am not positive on what happens if they clear waivers either dude.

Chronz
11-29-2011, 02:11 PM
Well, any time you trade for Kevin Martin your defense gets worse.
I have a similar motto for any time you trade JVG/Thibs for Adelman


Yao's injuries also hurt their paint protection numbers. Hayes is a good position defender, but he can't stop a guy who burys him on the block.
JVG didnt need those excuses, even with less defensive talent his teams competed competently on that end.


I think the defensive talent regressed to a point and Battier was also going through the again process. Maybe I am reaching, but I have watched a lot of Rockets games,
Well thats obvious to people who dont even watch the Rockets, it takes a true fan to notice the little things that used to be plentiful. I could have handled regression, I just hated that the team COMPLETELY fell off, that he attributed to that decline is why he held the team back.


and Adelman also had to deal with a lot of players with overlapping skillsets and find ways to get them on the floor.

Ive asked you to explain this before, I didnt see any of that over the course of his stay. Certainly not to the point where it would be a strength.

kblo247
11-29-2011, 02:12 PM
I could see a couple of guys not even being bid on. Obviously if they are not bid on, they hit the over the tax teams to bid on, correct? Or do they just become FA's? I am not positive on what happens if they clear waivers either dude.

Aldridge said that was the confusion that his sources had. I'd assume they get bid on with the new MLE or they just go the Finley route and become a FA who gets the vet min

Hawkeye15
11-29-2011, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by Chronz


I have a similar motto for any time you trade JVG/Thibs for Adelman

Obviously dude. Adelman is an offensive coach, those two are straight up defensive coaches. But Martin is a horrendous defender.


JVG didnt need those excuses, even with less defensive talent his teams competed competently on that end.

I think the defensive talent JVG had was the same, but his practices and focus points are much stronger in defense, therefore any team he has will be a good defensive team. Its his coaching style.



Well thats obvious to people who dont even watch the Rockets, it takes a true fan to notice the little things that used to be plentiful. I could have handled regression, I just hated that the team COMPLETELY fell off, that he attributed to that decline is why he held the team back.

Dude, I live in Houston and am basically forced to watch at least 40 Rox games a year because my roomate and friends like them. I am very familiar with the Rockets. I can understand where you are coming from on the defense falling off, but Yao should get a lot of credit for the way he altered the offensive plans of other teams, even though he had his moments where he got his butt kicked. Houston't paint protection numbers were fairly strong with Yao. Nobody is scared of Hayes, Scola, or Hill for example.



Ive asked you to explain this before, I didnt see any of that over the course of his stay. Certainly not to the point where it would be a strength.

Imo, when you are running Martin and Chase, or Hill and Scola, or Hill and Patterson, or Hayes and Hill, or any of the lineups that Adelman used that had players with similar positions and skillsets, you have times of overlap. He didn't always have to do this, particularly when Yao was healthy. But he also did it in Sacramento at times.

Adelman is an offensive coach, so if you are a team with a defensive identity, I suppose there is a lot of truth to "he held them back". This past year, the Rockets were a top 5 offensive team, and under JVG they were middle of the pack on a regular basis. I am not saying Adelman is a better fit for the assembled talent the Rox had/have, but he was able to get a lot out of that team through trades and injuries. Just as JVG did.

Chronz
11-29-2011, 03:26 PM
Obviously dude. Adelman is an offensive coach, those two are straight up defensive coaches. But Martin is a horrendous defender.
Perhaps you missed my point, it was suppose to be obvious. As obvious as saying Martin is a bad defender.

PS Adelman was actually brought to Houston because he was a well rounded coach who preached a system.


I think the defensive talent JVG had was the same, but his practices and focus points are much stronger in defense, therefore any team he has will be a good defensive team. Its his coaching style.
In other words, he got his player to defend at a higher level than Adelman could. Yes I know, this is why I said he held the team back, by not being JVG.

But I would love to hear how the defensive talent is the same, particularly when you have no idea of which group/units I refer to.


Dude, I live in Houston and am basically forced to watch at least 40 Rox games a year because my roomate and friends like them. I am very familiar with the Rockets.
That has nothing to do with my point, I can watch a team for 82 games it wouldnt make me a fan of them. The things Im speaking of may be small to you, but they stand out if your a fan and they help separate the 2 coaches. I never had a complaint when JVG was coaching the Rockets, I was excited to land Adelman, then I started complaining about the coaching decisions. Thats pretty much all I care about.


I can understand where you are coming from on the defense falling off, but Yao should get a lot of credit for the way he altered the offensive plans of other teams, even though he had his moments where he got his butt kicked. Houston't paint protection numbers were fairly strong with Yao. Nobody is scared of Hayes, Scola, or Hill for example.
LOL you do realize your talking to the guy who has had to defend Yao's defensive impact forever now. Your not saying anything I dont already know, and this definitely doesnt change anything Ive said.



Imo, when you are running Martin and Chase, or Hill and Scola, or Hill and Patterson, or Hayes and Hill, or any of the lineups that Adelman used that had players with similar positions and skillsets, you have times of overlap. He didn't always have to do this, particularly when Yao was healthy. But he also did it in Sacramento at times.
Im not seeing your point, what exactly did he do with these lineups that impressed you. I remember fans complaining about not seeing ____ get PT all year. No matter what, someone had to play, Im not seeing whats so special about handing out PT.


Adelman is an offensive coach, so if you are a team with a defensive identity, I suppose there is a lot of truth to "he held them back".
Im not making that point at all, Adelman held his team back because the players performed to the lesser of their abilities on both ends. He horribly misused Yao and pretty much relied on him as crutch. Again, Adelman was not brought in to be 1 dimensional.


This past year, the Rockets were a top 5 offensive team, and under JVG they were middle of the pack on a regular basis.
If thats the extent of your analysis then you have no point, I never denied any of this.


I am not saying Adelman is a better fit for the assembled talent the Rox had/have, but he was able to get a lot out of that team through trades and injuries. Just as JVG did.

LOL, Im not saying hes a bad coach, just that he held the team back in comparison to superior coaches. Thats what you would expect from superior coaches. And by most measures, his teams underachieved and their offense stalled in the clutch.

LOL just as JVG did, thats ridiculous if you have followed the Rockets as attentively as I have.

Chronz
11-29-2011, 03:39 PM
Look, it really is this simple.

JVG could take a bunch of old bums and get them to play defense at a respectable level.

Offense doesnt work that way, coaches can have a greater impact on defense than offense, you cant get a D-Leaguer and turn him into an efficient scorer. You can however get a group to function as a single unit if they know where to station themselves.

JVG got more defense out of Juwan Howard than Adelman got out of anyone else.

So again, JVG's stength translates to any team, he will make you defend. With Adelman, you better have players that fit his system that can defend competently without him.

Ill take the guy who I dont have to worry about thnks

D Roses Bulls
11-29-2011, 03:41 PM
Doesn't Roys knee or legs have major problems? Isn't it degenerative as well? why would anyone want him? the man obviously isn't the same player anymore.

Hawkeye15
11-29-2011, 03:44 PM
Look, it really is this simple.

JVG could take a bunch of old bums and get them to play defense at a respectable level.

Offense doesnt work that way, coaches can have a greater impact on defense than offense, you cant get a D-Leaguer and turn him into an efficient scorer. You can however get a group to function as a single unit if they know where to station themselves.

JVG got more defense out of Juwan Howard than Adelman got out of anyone else.

So again, JVG's stength translates to any team, he will make you defend. With Adelman, you better have players that fit his system that can defend competently without him.

Ill take the guy who I dont have to worry about thnks

I am not disagreeing with you that JVG may be the better overall coach dude. I am simply giving you my opinions on why Adelman wasn't completely the reason. You want to see Adelman's effect, wait for McHale's performance.

Hawkeye15
11-29-2011, 03:46 PM
haha, I just read your response to my post Chronz. Dude, why do you have to be such a smart *** with me? I have a girlfriend to try and make me feel stupid, I don't need you attempting to do it :)

Hawkeye15
11-29-2011, 03:48 PM
Honestly, I may be where you were 3 years ago. I am happy to land a coach of Adelman's ability and record. I will be watching his team every single game, and picking apart anything I don't like. I watched the Rox as a casual fan. I watch the Wolves like I'm scouting.

Will revisit later.

Chronz
11-29-2011, 03:57 PM
I am not disagreeing with you that JVG may be the better overall coach dude. I am simply giving you my opinions on why Adelman wasn't completely the reason. You want to see Adelman's effect, wait for McHale's performance.
That he played a reason at all is what Im holding against him. My point was that Adelman held the team back because I had higher standards.
I dont need a brief synopsis about the team you know I follow as much as any other, Im making these statements while keeping in mind roster moves elsewhere. I really dont see how suggesting Kevin Martin is a bad defender is news to anyone. To me your just exposing how superior JVG is, he doesnt need all-defensive talent in order to get his teams to defend. Take away Adelmans hyper efficient scorers and his offense is nothing.

Give JVG all the offensive talent Adelman has had and maybe they dont score as well, but they definitely defend MUCH better than Adelman could get them to play offensively.

As for McHale, hes a downgrade at this point but at least he has a really brief history of getting his players to overachieve, Id rather move forward with a question mark at this point. Its not because Adelman is a bad coach, its because he cant adapt to his players and will mold the team in his vision. So I hope your GM is willing to share the job.

Chronz
11-29-2011, 04:01 PM
Just tell me when you started understanding the Rockets

Hawkeye15
11-29-2011, 04:07 PM
That he played a reason at all is what Im holding against him. My point was that Adelman held the team back because I had higher standards.
I dont need a brief synopsis about the team you know I follow as much as any other, Im making these statements while keeping in mind roster moves elsewhere. I really dont see how suggesting Kevin Martin is a bad defender is news to anyone. To me your just exposing how superior JVG is, he doesnt need all-defensive talent in order to get his teams to defend. Take away Adelmans hyper efficient scorers and his offense is nothing.

Give JVG all the offensive talent Adelman has had and maybe they dont score as well, but they definitely defend MUCH better than Adelman could get them to play offensively.

As for McHale, hes a downgrade at this point but at least he has a really brief history of getting his players to overachieve, Id rather move forward with a question mark at this point. Its not because Adelman is a bad coach, its because he cant adapt to his players and will mold the team in his vision. So I hope your GM is willing to share the job.

JVG is a defensive coach. Of course we know this. I wonder, were you expecting the defense to stay at that high level? I wouldn't have been.

McHale- He gets players to buy in. They WANT to play hard for him. But he needs X's and O's guys. As Anthony Carter put it, "It was like looking at a mini etcha-sketch in the huddle, it was so confusing".

The one thing that concerns me about Kahn in general is that he has absolutely no understanding of the actual game of basketball. He is a finance nerd. He will never get caught with a horrible deal or without flexibility, but he will rely a ton on Adelman to shape the Wolves. We will see what happens. Obviously they landed arguably the best coach they could this offseason, and Adelman is being given that good passing, good shooting PF he always uses, but I am struggling to see how he uses Rubio or Beasley effectively. I will need some games to form an opinion.

Hawkeye15
11-29-2011, 04:10 PM
Just tell me when you started understanding the Rockets

Honestly I only watch them as a casual fan, because my roomate literally never shuts up during their games, so I can only concentrate so much on them. Individual players I was fine with, but I really just watch them as a casual fan, and never read up on them outside watching the game half ***.

That being said, I understand the game of basketball, so I didn't need to see too much in detail to get the overall effectiveness of the team, and their strenghts and weaknesses. But I can guarantee you I have never watched them in depth, like you, nor will I be able to keep up with you in a converstion about them as you peel away layers, just as I suppose you would have problems keeping up with evaluating the Wolves.

Apples to Oranges.

Fresno
11-29-2011, 04:16 PM
Brandon Roy would be a good fit in New Jersey.

Chronz
11-29-2011, 04:35 PM
I only watch them.
I meant when did it all begin because its pertinent to what Im going to ask you. 2007?

Chronz
11-29-2011, 04:40 PM
JVG is a defensive coach. Of course we know this. I wonder, were you expecting the defense to stay at that high level? I wouldn't have been.
I dont know why you would, I really dont know what more I can do to make my stance clear.

Hawkeye15
11-29-2011, 04:43 PM
I meant when did it all begin because its pertinent to what Im going to ask you. 2007?

When did I start watching them? Eh, around 2003-04' probably. Obviously when I moved down in 1995, I watched them a bit, but didn't get into watching them regularly until the TMac swap.




I dont know why you would, I really dont know what more I can do to make my stance clear.

Oh, you don't need to make your stance any more clear. I get it. It just seems to me you are holding something against Adelman that you clearly knew was going to happen. Nothing more.

Ebbs
11-29-2011, 05:07 PM
If JR and Chandler are stuck in China maybe Denver takes a look at him?

Chronz
11-29-2011, 05:17 PM
Oh, you don't need to make your stance any more clear. I get it. It just seems to me you are holding something against Adelman that you clearly knew was going to happen. Nothing more.
I still get the feeling you dont, and I no longer know what your talking about. LOL, suffice it to say if I knew it was going to happen then it only cements JVG's superiority.

Hawkeye15
11-29-2011, 05:51 PM
I still get the feeling you dont, and I no longer know what your talking about. LOL, suffice it to say if I knew it was going to happen then it only cements JVG's superiority.

Adelman hater. That is all you are.

CityofTreez
11-29-2011, 06:47 PM
Phoenix is just too perfect.

Yeah, I was thinking of that team when I said that.

People can disagree, but the Sixers would be a good team for Roy to land on. Got a good young PG, a defensive SF in Iggy, and adding Roy would only help out the lacking "forward" depth in Philly.

D Roses Bulls
11-29-2011, 07:50 PM
Adelman hater. That is all you are.

I feel a new group being created on psd for that.

oldfishermen
11-30-2011, 08:29 PM
TrailBlazer’s president Larry Miller’s press conference just ended. He stated the Blazers have a very clear plan ready to start the season. On Brandon Roy, he said absolutely no decision has been made. He expects to see Brandon with the team at the start of training camp. It sounds like they are going to see what Brandon has left before making a decsision on using the amnesty clause, or not.

Also, Jason Quick, a sports writer for the Oregonian twitted this a day ago
“jwquick I'm not buying that the Blazers have already made a decision on Roy. It may end up being the wise business move, but why not take a look?”

In other words, there is no confirmation of the “Clown’s” drama report. The Clown does this all the time to stir people up to increase his ratings. You all have been had, by the Clown, again.

oldfishermen
11-30-2011, 08:42 PM
Here is a link to the full story
http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index.ssf/2011/11/blazers_19.html




The Trail Blazers have not made any decisions on using the amnesty provision to waive Brandon Roy.

Team president Larry Miller, in a packed news conference at the Rose Garden on Wednesday, was adamant a that column by The Oregonian's John Canzano -- which quoted a source saying Portland had decided to waive Roy -- was dead wrong.

"We have not, and regardless of what's been said by John Canzano and others out there, (made a) decision has been on amnesty as of yet," Miller said.

Miller said interim general manager Chad Buchanan called Roy's agent at 6 a.m. this morning -- the earliest team officials could contact agents -- to arrange a meeting with Roy.

"With everything that Brandon has done for this organization, there's no way we would make a decision like that without having conversation with him, without evaluating where he is," Miller said.

Byronicle
11-30-2011, 09:00 PM
all these years raptor fans wanted roy

i liked his game, its just too bad about his legs, but portland knew when they drafted him

excited what lamarcus is going to do

smith&wesson
11-30-2011, 09:14 PM
Brandon roy was a top 3 pg in the league, ask yourself why in hell would portland ever let him go ? Because his knees are completly shot, yet every ones saying the bulls should go after him ? He did nothing for portland last year. Yes he tried, but he was a shell of his former self. wasnt any one watching ?

Bulls fans shouldnt want any part of this guy... Its sad to say but he is done. Were not talking about granthill here.

blackjack_119
11-30-2011, 10:14 PM
Brandon roy was a top 3 pg in the league, ask yourself why in hell would portland ever let him go ? Because his knees are completly shot, yet every ones saying the bulls should go after him ? He did nothing for portland last year. Yes he tried, but he was a shell of his former self. wasnt any one watching ?

Bulls fans shouldnt want any part of this guy... Its sad to say but he is done. Were not talking about granthill here.

By amnestying Roy, Portland actually becomes a desirable location for the free agents of 2012/2013. Aldridge played like an all-star and is signed long term at a reasonable rate. Portland also got a very good, young SG in Wesley Matthews for the MLE. Nicolas Batum offers another excellent perimeter defender/shooter. If Dwight Howard and Chris Paul are looking to create a "super team" those three would round out an excellent starting that (unlike Miami) compliments each other perfectly while still allowing Howard and Paul to sign max contracts. If Howard and Paul wanted to take a reduced salary ($15M a piece) the team could cut Batum and resign Crash Wallace long term as well.)

C Howard
PF Aldridge
SF Crash
SG Matthews
PG Paul

That would be the best combination of youth, offense and defense in the NBA. That team would be lethal on the fast break and balanced with both perimeter and post offense to play in the half court. Wallace and Matthews would offer the best perimeter defense to neutralize James/Wade with Howard being able to protect the paint.

mrblisterdundee
12-01-2011, 10:21 PM
at some point, many of you will understand the following:

1- there will be very few amnesty cuts
2- for the productive players cut, the contenders have no chance of landing them

Yes; I'm sure a contender will have no chance of signing a 27-year-old former all-star for about $5 million a season after the Blazers cut him. That doesn't make any sense.

oldfishermen
12-03-2011, 02:10 PM
Brandon Roy’s contract will be paid if he is waved using the amnesty clause, or not. The little financial benefit to waving Brandon is not that great, to a Billionaire team owner. The emotional benefit of keeping Brandon on the Blazers team could be priceless to the Blazer players and their fans.

The decision to wave Brandon has not been made yet. If the Blazers wave Brandon this season it needs to be done soon. According to the new CBA, a player can only be waved PRIOR to the start of the season.

Will the Blazers wave Brandon? It could go either way. Read between the lines of the comments made by those that have a real voice in the decision. It depends how much game Brandon has left compared to the player that fills his roster spot.

The benefits of waving Brandon are the Blazers can use a $5 million MLE instead of only $3 million. How much better of a player does the extra $2 million buy them? I believe the Blazers only need to pay Brandon the balance of his contract that is not paid by the team that picks him up. The luxury tax also comes into play, however, at the old $1-$1 ratio, which did not bother owner Paul Allen. None of these are big dollar deals to owner Paul Allen.

In other words, if waving Brandon improves the team, the chances are he will be waved. However, if waving Brandon does not improve the team, and he can still provide productive minutes during the season. He will be in a Blazers uniform for another year. Money is not the #1 issue.