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Wade>You
11-27-2011, 04:56 PM
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/sfl-miami-heat-nba-lockout-s112711,0,4202541.story
MIAMI— An expected windfall for NBA contending teams in search of affordable talent could wind up short-circuited by the league's soon-to-be-approved collective-bargaining agreement.

The Sun Sentinel confirmed Sunday that instead of players being released under the league's "amnesty" provision going directly to the open market, a bidding system has been put in place for teams operating below the league's salary cap to add such players at a deep discount.

"That's what the clause is in there for," a party familiar with the impending process Sunday told the Sun Sentinel. "It's so the Lakers can't go in and scoop up all the players."

Under the amnesty program, a team can waive a player in order to remove his salary from its salary cap and luxury tax, while still paying out the balance of that contract. It had been widely assumed that such players then would immediately hit the open market.

However, in an outline of the proposed collective-bargaining agreement obtained by the Sun Sentinel, the NBA instead has instituted "a modified waiver process" that would allow teams operating below the salary cap to "submit competing offers to assume some but not all of the player's remaining contract."

...

For example, while Lewis has two years at $44 million total remaining on his contract, a team currently operating below the salary cap could bid to pay Lewis $3 million in each of those years (with the Washington Wizards, who are expected to make Lewis available, then paying the balance of his salary).

"Some of it is still not 100-percent worked out," a party familiar with the impending policy told the Sun Sentinel.

Under the about-to-be-rubber-stamped program, teams such as the Heat and Lakers that are operating well above the salary cap would therefore be precluded from bidding on such players, able to move only on amnesty players who receive no partial bids in the waiver process.

29$JerZ
11-27-2011, 04:58 PM
:laugh2:

Knicks, Heat, Lakers and Bull fans dreams are crushed

Wade>You
11-27-2011, 04:58 PM
The last line in the quote is important as it still allows for teams above the cap ("contenders," apparently) to sign these players if the teams below the cap don't make a partial bid.

kjoke
11-27-2011, 04:59 PM
haha i just posted a thread about this, did not see this

and yes this sucks

xnick5757
11-27-2011, 05:01 PM
so the players get cut by a team they chose to play for, then can be signed by a team they don't want to go to?

why the hell would the players agree to that?

kjoke
11-27-2011, 05:01 PM
^they are still getting paid maybe?

likemystylez
11-27-2011, 05:02 PM
:laugh2:

Knicks, Heat, Lakers and Bull fans dreams are crushed

PLEASE... those teams still have decent chance at a ring. I love how people act like contenders NEED anything. If your team is a lock for the playoffs, then you are sitting pretty. There are teams a lot worse off out there.

KnickaBocka.44
11-27-2011, 05:05 PM
they get paid, but it just doesnt record on the salary cap

they get paid, then get to pick whatever team they want and get paid again

They do not get to pick, they are basically being auctioned to the highest bidder.

likemystylez
11-27-2011, 05:08 PM
so the players get cut by a team they chose to play for, then can be signed by a team they don't want to go to?

why the hell would the players agree to that?

they still get their full contract... and does a player really want to play for a team that is trying to unload him?

Also- while this might rub some of the actual amnestized players the wrong way.... it takes gaurenteed money out of BRI consideration, and opens up available cap space (additional contracts to many other players).

The amnesty clause will allow players as a whole significantly more options on the free agent market.


having said all that though- If I am one of the teams under the cap bidding on an amnesty player who has just been released. I think it would make a difference if that player said he is strongly against playing for my team.

likemystylez
11-27-2011, 05:10 PM
:laugh2: another NBA attempt to control player movement

its essentially the NFL waiver system but with money, not waiver spots

the other side of it is that it puts many teams under the cap and allows a lot more bidders to the open market players. Forgive me if Im not terribly concerned about reshard lewis thinking he's being treated unfairly.

More-Than-Most
11-27-2011, 05:12 PM
Lol Smart and great move.

dnewguy
11-27-2011, 05:13 PM
Can we now call the NBA a communist organization? You can't keep treating grown folks like slaves. If they get cut give them the freedom to pick a team.

spreadeagle
11-27-2011, 05:13 PM
Maybe its cause im hungover and baked but I dont get this..someone help lol

Hawkeye15
11-27-2011, 05:14 PM
I love this.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2011, 05:14 PM
Can we now call the NBA a communist organization? You can't keep treating grown folks like slaves. If they get cut give them the freedom to pick a team.

If making $10 million to dribble a basketball is being a slave, sign me up dude.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2011, 05:18 PM
Basically, fans of contending teams that are over the cap won't like this, and fans of teams that are either contenders under the cap, or whose teams who are under the cap, like this.

I am sorry, you can't just flood the free agent market with good players who are already getting theirs, and allow the Lakers, Heat, etc to just sweep them up. That is B.S.

The Thunder and Knicks will still be able to land someone from what I can see. The only teams we KNOW this will hurt are the Lakers, Magic, Spurs, and Celtics. There are about 5 more teams that this will limit who they can get. The majority of the league, this is a good thing.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2011, 05:18 PM
couldnt pay me 10 million a year to live in indiana,memphis,cleveland,minny, or any of those places :puke:

You've never been to Minneapolis obviously. Memphis is beautiful. I have never been to Indianapolis, and I didn't like Cleveland.

llemon
11-27-2011, 05:19 PM
so the players get cut by a team they chose to play for, then can be signed by a team they don't want to go to?

why the hell would the players agree to that?

Same reason they'd agree to an expansion draft.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2011, 05:20 PM
I feel so bad for teams that are $20 million over the payroll that they can't offer a 5 year, $30 million deal. Boo hoo.

ClippersE.G
11-27-2011, 05:21 PM
I dont think I quite understand this...it is complicated...but if this means sorry teams can get rid of horrible contracts that KEEP THEM SORRY....then I am all for it. That and as long as a fake team like the Heat cant add a Rashard Lewis to their team like nothing

Wade>You
11-27-2011, 05:21 PM
Hmm thread title could be a bit misleading.

Last line of quoted text on OP: teams over the cap are still able to move on players that did not receive a partial bid from teams under the cap.

i.e., it somewhat closes the loophole because you don't expect teams under the cap to throw away money on players that will only hinder the development of their young players and get them worse draft positioning.

Rego247
11-27-2011, 05:22 PM
If making $10 million to dribble a basketball is being a slave, sign me up dude.

x1000

RCarlson85
11-27-2011, 05:22 PM
couldnt pay me 10 million a year to live in indiana,memphis,cleveland,minny, or any of those places :puke:

You gotta be kidding me. This is probably one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever seen.

29$JerZ
11-27-2011, 05:22 PM
This sucks so much for the Knicks since we are strapped for talent outside Billups/Melo/Amar'e.

I see where the league is going and I understand it. Bad teams benefit greatly. Now contenders just have to hope wanting a ring > money

likemystylez
11-27-2011, 05:23 PM
its also unfair to the contending teams can only offer 5.5 maximum or whatever the MLE is

ummm what does this have to do with contending teams. it just related to teams over the cap.

most teams over the cap already have enough talent on their roster they are not in serious need of anything.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2011, 05:23 PM
Hmm thread title could be a bit misleading.

Last line of quoted text on OP: teams over the cap are still able to move on players that did not receive a partial bid from teams under the cap.

i.e., it somewhat closes the loophole.

it just means the chances of landing the more productive players waived will be much, much harder now for teams over the cap. As Lloyd Christmas said, "So you are telling me there's a chance".

The Lakers and Heat will now not be getting a shot at Lewis, Arenas, Davis, and those types. Someone will pick them up, if not just to keep them away from those teams.

llemon
11-27-2011, 05:24 PM
they still get their full contract... and does a player really want to play for a team that is trying to unload him?

Also- while this might rub some of the actual amnestized players the wrong way.... it takes gaurenteed money out of BRI consideration, and opens up available cap space (additional contracts to many other players).

The amnesty clause will allow players as a whole significantly more options on the free agent market.


having said all that though- If I am one of the teams under the cap bidding on an amnesty player who has just been released. I think it would make a difference if that player said he is strongly against playing for my team.

Can't hurt too much to make a small offer, and stop the player from getting to Heat, Lakers or Bulls.

One of those teams might offer something for him later down the line.

In the worst case scenario, your team waives the guy and opens him up to the process again, only this time at a set price.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2011, 05:27 PM
im just being honest, cant pay me to live in certain places, im a city guy, not some suburbs and forest,country,kind of person, i cant survive in certain places. too much uneducated people

I will say it again. You have obviously never been to Minneapolis or Memphis. Both are beautiful cities with plenty on nightlife, activity, and hot women.

ChaseHamels
11-27-2011, 05:28 PM
im just being honest, cant pay me to live in certain places, im a city guy, not some suburbs and forest,country,kind of person, i cant survive in certain places. too much uneducated people

For 10mil a year I'd live on the god damn moon.

D Roses Bulls
11-27-2011, 05:29 PM
This sucks...... why punish the teams and owners that are willing to open their pockets and give a advantage to a team who doesn't really wanna pay to win. I mean don't give me this small market b/s, there are teams like Orlando, cleveland, portland who are willing to spend a lot of money. This sucks if you ask me. the salary cap already went down, now your just gonna make it even harder for a team that is trying to get over that hump to get over that hump.

Wade>You
11-27-2011, 05:32 PM
it just means the chances of landing the more productive players waived will be much, much harder now for teams over the cap. As Lloyd Christmas said, "So you are telling me there's a chance".

The Lakers and Heat will now not be getting a shot at Lewis, Arenas, Davis, and those types. Someone will pick them up, if not just to keep them away from those teams.:laugh: pretty much (one of my fav lines in that move, btw). Thanks for the re-quote so everyone stays informed.

JLynn943
11-27-2011, 05:32 PM
As a Kings fan, I love this. I can't wait to see who gets cut with the amnesty clause.

llemon
11-27-2011, 05:34 PM
This sucks...... why punish the teams and owners that are willing to open their pockets and give a advantage to a team who doesn't really wanna pay to win. I mean don't give me this small market b/s, there are teams like Orlando, cleveland, portland who are willing to spend a lot of money. This sucks if you ask me. the salary cap already went down, now your just gonna make it even harder for a team that is trying to get over that hump to get over that hump.

Someone is upset by this rule.

29$JerZ
11-27-2011, 05:38 PM
I'm a bit confused by something. Would this waiver/bid system mean players have to go to whatever teams bids for them or do they still get to pick a team like the Heat/Knicks/Lakers for example but have to wait longer?

iFYouSeekAmy
11-27-2011, 05:40 PM
How long would the bidding process be?

KnickaBocka.44
11-27-2011, 05:41 PM
I'm a bit confused by something. Would this waiver/bid system mean players have to go to whatever teams bids for them or do they still get to pick a team like the Heat/Knicks/Lakers for example but have to wait longer?

Pretty sure that teams over the cap are not allowed to place a bid. The player being bid on would go to the team that bids the highest for his services.

If this is the case, I think there needs to be a brief meeting period before bids can be made for GM's to met wih players and assure that the two are a match before doling out money in a bidding process.

Knicks21
11-27-2011, 05:41 PM
As it much as us big market teams hate it, their intentions are trying to make the league fair.

Rocco Gandolfo
11-27-2011, 05:43 PM
so the players get cut by a team they chose to play for, then can be signed by a team they don't want to go to?

why the hell would the players agree to that?

In Lewis case I can think of 44 million reasons.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2011, 05:44 PM
This sucks...... why punish the teams and owners that are willing to open their pockets and give a advantage to a team who doesn't really wanna pay to win. I mean don't give me this small market b/s, there are teams like Orlando, cleveland, portland who are willing to spend a lot of money. This sucks if you ask me. the salary cap already went down, now your just gonna make it even harder for a team that is trying to get over that hump to get over that hump.

And why penalize a team like my Wolves (who have been more than willing to go over the cap) for understanding this CBA was coming up, and that the NBA was going to be more strict in payroll?

Goes both ways dude.

likemystylez
11-27-2011, 05:45 PM
I'm a bit confused by something. Would this waiver/bid system mean players have to go to whatever teams bids for them or do they still get to pick a team like the Heat/Knicks/Lakers for example but have to wait longer?

the players are still under contract... so is it really a whole lot different than a team trading a player to a team he may not particularly wish to play for? it happens all the time. jeesh- I think the posters on here are making a bigger stink about it than most players would. Its called being professional... and seriously comparing it to slavery is not only inacurate, it's offensive.

Or let me guess- now were going to say all players should have a no trade clause in their contract as well?

Hawkeye15
11-27-2011, 05:49 PM
the players are still under contract... so is it really a whole lot different than a team trading a player to a team he may not particularly wish to play for? it happens all the time. jeesh- I think the posters on here are making a bigger stink about it than most players would. Its called being professional... and seriously comparing it to slavery is not only inacurate, it's offensive.

Or let me guess- now were going to say all players should have a no trade clause in their contract as well?

well, its basically the immature fans of teams over the cap complaining, because they can't stack their stacked team further. Most here won't care. And Wolves, Kings, Bucks, etc fans obviously love this.

Its not that big of a deal. Does Miami really need to add a borderline all star for a couple million to win a title? No.

Tom Stone
11-27-2011, 05:50 PM
This is sweet.......take that Big Markets......RISE OF THE SMALL MARKETS !

chicago lulz
11-27-2011, 05:50 PM
As a Bulls fan, I don't mind this. If it helps out the weaker teams.

Rocco Gandolfo
11-27-2011, 05:56 PM
The NFL is so popular because of Parity. Why are NBA fans so against a fair system? I think it is incredible that a small town like Green Bay is undefeated this year after winning the super bowl last season. Does this offend "Big City" people? Does it Bother people in large Metroppolitan area's that Green Bay is about 1/4 the size of Brooklyn alone? And they are on top of the NFL foodchain?
Should Jets fans be upset that they can't "Buy" Aaron Rogers when he hits FA because Revis makes so much?
It's fair. Sacramento, Utah, Memphis, Charlotte, Golden State, and OKC deserve a chance to compete in a fair system.
Why should the Bulls be allowed to add 2 great "Amnesty" players when they are at or over the cap? Why shouldn't teams under the cap get the first crack? It's fair. Just because your team might not benefit....That's Life, Get used to it.

Chronz
11-27-2011, 05:58 PM
If teams amnesty the right guys they could be a factor in the waiver wire. But which teams under the cap would want these soon to be amnestied players? Like would any of those teams that are likely rebuilding want these vets (possibly cancerous) taking up minutes?

The players can always force their way out anyways, that said there will be those who dont care so long as they get their money. Nothing wrong here

daleja424
11-27-2011, 05:58 PM
I love this.

I agree... I thought it wasnt really fair that the Lakers and HEAT would get to load up on good players for the min while small market teams still paid them...

Rocco Gandolfo
11-27-2011, 06:00 PM
Baseball does this with the waiver wire. When a player is waived, the team in that players division with the worst record gets the first shot at picking him up. It levels out the field so that the Yankees don't get whoever they want.
If the yankees lose marioano Rivera for the year and the Phillies waive Papplebon, the yanks have to wait and see if all NL east then all NL teams want him first. It's a system that works.

Chronz
11-27-2011, 06:01 PM
The NFL is so popular because of Parity. Why are NBA fans so against a fair system? I think it is incredible that a small town like Green Bay is undefeated this year after winning the super bowl last season. Does this offend "Big City" people? Does it Bother people in large Metroppolitan area's that Green Bay is about 1/4 the size of Brooklyn alone? And they are on top of the NFL foodchain?
Should Jets fans be upset that they can't "Buy" Aaron Rogers when he hits FA because Revis makes so much?
It's fair. Sacramento, Utah, Memphis, Charlotte, Golden State, and OKC deserve a chance to compete in a fair system.
Why should the Bulls be allowed to add 2 great "Amnesty" players when they are at or over the cap? Why shouldn't teams under the cap get the first crack? It's fair. Just because your team might not benefit....That's Life, Get used to it.

Cross sport comparisons dont work out, make the NBA a 15 game season and single elimination playoffs and you will see parity. AKA flukes

Rocco Gandolfo
11-27-2011, 06:02 PM
The problem is going to be if a player does have a no=trade clause. If Kobe for instance was an Amnesty player and had 5 years 100 million on his current deal, could Charlotte pick him up and pay him 3 million a year with the rest paid by the lakers? What if Kobe refused to play in Charlotte? What then?

Chronz
11-27-2011, 06:03 PM
Baseball does this with the waiver wire. When a player is waived, the team in that players division with the worst record gets the first shot at picking him up. It levels out the field so that the Yankees don't get whoever they want.
If the yankees lose marioano Rivera for the year and the Phillies waive Papplebon, the yanks have to wait and see if all NL east then all NL teams want him first. It's a system that works.

They had it in the old CBA, nobody ever uses it because it used to be you had to take up 100% of the players old salary. It was too easy to pass the waiver wire, this tweaks it so that the system actually makes sense.

Heediot
11-27-2011, 06:04 PM
Cross sport comparisons dont work out, make the NBA a 15 game season and single elimination playoffs and you will see parity. AKA flukes

To add to this one messed up mistake can be as much of a 14 point differential in football. For example that James Harrison Steelers 99 yard int for a TD in the Superbowl a few years back.

Rocco Gandolfo
11-27-2011, 06:04 PM
Cross sport comparisons dont work out, make the NBA a 15 game season and single elimination playoffs and you will see parity. AKA flukes

Oh yes they do. The NFL saw what was going to happen without a cap and put one in place to make sure NFL football could work in any town or city.
The length of season has nothing to do with this.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2011, 06:04 PM
If teams amnesty the right guys they could be a factor in the waiver wire. But which teams under the cap would want these soon to be amnestied players? Like would any of those teams that are likely rebuilding want these vets (possibly cancerous) taking up minutes?

The players can always force their way out anyways, that said there will be those who dont care so long as they get their money. Nothing wrong here

I would say Rashard Lewis isn't a cancer for example. I doubt teams chase Baron Davis or Gilbert Arenas. But a Marvin Williams, or Mike Miller, and a number of others that will be cut will draw some interest from the teams under the cap.

Chronz
11-27-2011, 06:05 PM
The problem is going to be if a player does have a no=trade clause. If Kobe for instance was an Amnesty player and had 5 years 100 million on his current deal, could Charlotte pick him up and pay him 3 million a year with the rest paid by the lakers? What if Kobe refused to play in Charlotte? What then?
Can you use another comparison? No, so why worry about something that will never happen? And even if it did the players will have the final say.

beliges
11-27-2011, 06:06 PM
The NFL is so popular because of Parity. Why are NBA fans so against a fair system? I think it is incredible that a small town like Green Bay is undefeated this year after winning the super bowl last season. Does this offend "Big City" people? Does it Bother people in large Metroppolitan area's that Green Bay is about 1/4 the size of Brooklyn alone? And they are on top of the NFL foodchain?
Should Jets fans be upset that they can't "Buy" Aaron Rogers when he hits FA because Revis makes so much?
It's fair. Sacramento, Utah, Memphis, Charlotte, Golden State, and OKC deserve a chance to compete in a fair system.
Why should the Bulls be allowed to add 2 great "Amnesty" players when they are at or over the cap? Why shouldn't teams under the cap get the first crack? It's fair. Just because your team might not benefit....That's Life, Get used to it.

The NFL has parity because it is much more of a team game than the NBA is. In the NFL, no matter how much one player can dominate, you still need your teammates to win and ultimately win a championship. In the NBA, one individual player can lead a team to victories and championships. A dominant player in the NBA has a much more significant impact on the outcome of a game than any one individual can in the NFL. Its hard to have parity in the NBA when you have guys that will always lead a team to success because of how amazing they are.

KnickaBocka.44
11-27-2011, 06:08 PM
The problem is going to be if a player does have a no=trade clause. If Kobe for instance was an Amnesty player and had 5 years 100 million on his current deal, could Charlotte pick him up and pay him 3 million a year with the rest paid by the lakers? What if Kobe refused to play in Charlotte? What then?

The NFL was uncapped for 1 season before the lockout. The MLB is the only sport that doesn't have a salary cap and there has been plenty of parity over the past 10 years or so.

itsripcity32
11-27-2011, 06:08 PM
Can we now call the NBA a communist organization? You can't keep treating grown folks like slaves. If they get cut give them the freedom to pick a team.

lolololololol

itsripcity32
11-27-2011, 06:09 PM
i feel so bad for teams that are $20 million over the payroll that they can't offer a 5 year, $30 million deal. Boo hoo.

:d

SteBO
11-27-2011, 06:11 PM
At first glance, it sounded like a move to restrict player movement and punish bigger markets for being willing to spend, but after reading more in depth it isn't so bad at all. If it's just a way to help the smaller markets nab some good pieces, then I'm cool with it.

KnickaBocka.44
11-27-2011, 06:11 PM
Can we now call the NBA a communist organization? You can't keep treating grown folks like slaves. If they get cut give them the freedom to pick a team.

World History: F

LanceUpperCut
11-27-2011, 06:12 PM
I agree... I thought it wasnt really fair that the Lakers and HEAT would get to load up on good players for the min while small market teams still paid them...

Bingo. I love hearing this from a Heat fan to. This slavery talk people come up with is so ****ing ridicules. Being picked up by a team you never wanted to go to is just like getting traded to a team you didn't want to go to. I guess we should just stop trades to wouldn't want a player to land in a city with a ****** night life his career would be over.

mzgrizz
11-27-2011, 06:13 PM
I will say it again. You have obviously never been to Minneapolis or Memphis. Both are beautiful cities with plenty on nightlife, activity, and hot women.

Couldn't agree more....Memphis is a beautiful city with a thriving night life in Downtown, especially on Beale Street. I guess the original poster who is slamming the smaller markets equated small TV markets with no nightlife??? Hard to skip from that to the other :shrug:

Chronz
11-27-2011, 06:15 PM
Oh yes they do. The NFL saw what was going to happen without a cap and put one in place to make sure NFL football could work in any town or city.
The length of season has nothing to do with this.
Well maybe we arent having the same discussion because it has everything to do with what Im talking about (Perceived Parity across sports). Its one of the single greatest distinguishing factors between the 2 sports. The very notion that the # of games played in a series is irrelevant in determining a winner gos against basic statistical principles, more importantly, it gos against common sense. Cmon people have been saying this for years, its no coincidence that March Madness has more Cinderella stories, its much easier to win a single game than it is 2, than 3, than 4.

If we worked under this operation the NBA would have a greater variance with their yearly results, yielding this so called parity when really its just randomness.

Both sports have their own set of rules for their own sports competitive system.

KnickaBocka.44
11-27-2011, 06:16 PM
Memphis is also one of the top 5 cities in the country as far as virtually every type of violent crime, including rape and murder. Just sayin'...

Hawkeye15
11-27-2011, 06:16 PM
Couldn't agree more....Memphis is a beautiful city with a thriving night life in Downtown, especially on Beale Street. I guess the original poster who is slamming the smaller markets equated small TV markets with no nightlife??? Hard to skip from that to the other :shrug:

I have been through Memphis 4 times. I love the city. Its beautiful, there is a ton of activity to do, great nightlife, and there is always Graceland :)

Cano-Montero...
11-27-2011, 06:18 PM
interesting rule....but some players will still be available...

RC3
11-27-2011, 06:18 PM
This is sweet.......take that Big Markets......RISE OF THE SMALL MARKETS !

When smal market teams dominate( Spurs, pistons, cavaliers). Ratings go wayy down. This whole small market team suffering is a load of BS. Miami is a small market and got three all star players. And now people are saying that Miami is a HUGE market. LMAO

Punk
11-27-2011, 06:18 PM
PLEASE... those teams still have decent chance at a ring. I love how people act like contenders NEED anything. If your team is a lock for the playoffs, then you are sitting pretty. There are teams a lot worse off out there.

All of those teams will beef up their roster and the amnesty rule would have helped alot.

Chicago could trade for Howard, extend Rose. They would need an amnesty group of players to add around the stars for cheap.

We could get Howard and use the amnesty on Balkman. Then, sign an amnestied player in Baron Davis or Calderon to deepen our bench.

Miami could go after Nash, Calderon or Davis by amnestying Mike Miller and signing one of those 3.

So, this new modified rule sucks.

fishfan79
11-27-2011, 06:18 PM
I like this, it is very fair. As a heat fan I think it is the right move.

Hellcrooner
11-27-2011, 06:18 PM
lol.

This still has to go troug a votiation isnt it?

is one fo the "b" issues.

Guess what this stupid rule guarantees around 60 to 90 players voting against signing the deal ( those who know who aere in risk of being cut and then sent to whetever ******* stupid dirty stinky corner of the league instead of where they WANT to go.)

fishfan79
11-27-2011, 06:20 PM
When smal market teams dominate( Spurs, pistons, cavaliers). Ratings go wayy down. This whole small market team suffering is a load of BS. Miami is a small market and got three all star players. And now people are saying that Miami is a HUGE market. LMAO

Miami is the 6th largest tv market in the US, I am assuming that is why they keep calling us a huge market. But we are a mid market in my eyes, but we are ran exceptionally well thanks to Pat Riley and a kick asre Owner in Mickey Arison.


NYC, LA, Boston, Chicago, Dallas would be the big five markets.

Heediot
11-27-2011, 06:21 PM
When smal market teams dominate( Spurs, pistons, cavaliers). Ratings go wayy down. This whole small market team suffering is a load of BS. Miami is a small market and got three all star players. And now people are saying that Miami is a HUGE market. LMAO

Miami is like Dallas, maaad rich people.

Detroit is a solid market, just too many poor people.

CityofTreez
11-27-2011, 06:21 PM
And why penalize a team like my Wolves (who have been more than willing to go over the cap) for understanding this CBA was coming up, and that the NBA was going to be more strict in payroll?

Goes both ways dude.

Great point. Some small market teams were well-prepared going into this CBA/Lockout mess.

I know the NBA has many flaws, but penalizing a team that worked very hard to get to a financially balanced would really be senseless. This is a huge move for my Kings, and many other small market teams that can (slowly) make this league more balanced.

I'm curious to see whose the 1st player to be a victim of this?

Punk
11-27-2011, 06:21 PM
I like this, it is very fair. As a heat fan I think it is the right move.

.....You do realize this ruins your chances at adding a competent veteran PG or C right?

Chronz
11-27-2011, 06:21 PM
I would say Rashard Lewis isn't a cancer for example. I doubt teams chase Baron Davis or Gilbert Arenas. But a Marvin Williams, or Mike Miller, and a number of others that will be cut will draw some interest from the teams under the cap.
Agreed

IndyRealist
11-27-2011, 06:23 PM
Can we now call the NBA a communist organization? You can't keep treating grown folks like slaves. If they get cut give them the freedom to pick a team.

It's not that different than getting traded.

John Walls Era
11-27-2011, 06:23 PM
It really doesn't matter. Teams who suck and or rebuilding isn't going to go bid for old vets anyways. But yes if you hate the Lakers or Heat, then this possibly doesn't make them stronger.

Heediot
11-27-2011, 06:23 PM
Baron Davis' attitude improved alot last season.

mzgrizz
11-27-2011, 06:26 PM
Memphis is also one of the top 5 cities in the country as far as virtually every type of violent crime, including rape and murder. Just sayin'...

Link?

Chronz
11-27-2011, 06:27 PM
.....You do realize this ruins your chances at adding a competent veteran PG or C right?

It hurts all the other contenders that the Heat are already better than.

Chronz
11-27-2011, 06:28 PM
Baron Davis' attitude improved alot last season.

Thats because it couldnt have started off any worse.

Indi23
11-27-2011, 06:29 PM
So you are telling me the Heat, where Lebron signed after his shenanigans with Cavs last season, can't sign Baron for the min who is currently signed with Cleveland and possibly win a ring? , while the cavs pay barons salary? HMM i wonder if this bothers me?

YungDaSensai
11-27-2011, 06:30 PM
This sucks...... why punish the teams and owners that are willing to open their pockets and give a advantage to a team who doesn't really wanna pay to win. I mean don't give me this small market b/s, there are teams like Orlando, cleveland, portland who are willing to spend a lot of money. This sucks if you ask me. the salary cap already went down, now your just gonna make it even harder for a team that is trying to get over that hump to get over that hump.

I totally agree with you, but don't worry about it..... The small market teams that this gives the advantage too, will still find a way to **** it up.... Trust me.

mzgrizz
11-27-2011, 06:30 PM
I have been through Memphis 4 times. I love the city. Its beautiful, there is a ton of activity to do, great nightlife, and there is always Graceland :)

:D and yes there is always Graceland. Thanks for the props to Memphis. Certainly a lot of preconceived ideas here from some uneducated big city folks.
Guess it's hard to give up on trashing smaller markets.............

Oldmantrash
11-27-2011, 06:33 PM
Can we now call the NBA a communist organization? You can't keep treating grown folks like slaves. If they get cut give them the freedom to pick a team.

Will you stop with the slave crap, jese guys are getting paid millions.
Just an ignorant statement.

This is a great thing, otherwise all of thse players would play for the same teams.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2011, 06:33 PM
I have to be honest, there are a few in here that are fans of teams well over the cap acting like a child whose sucker has just been taken away.

The NBA has a salary cap. Until they take that away, there are rules to follow. Very simple to understand. The contending teams will not all of a sudden not be contenders because they couldn't land Rashard Lewis, and the mighty Bobcats were able to land him.

mark1125
11-27-2011, 06:34 PM
Can we now call the NBA a communist organization? You can't keep treating grown folks like slaves. If they get cut give them the freedom to pick a team.

Poor millionaires are being treated like slaves. :facepalm:

CityofTreez
11-27-2011, 06:34 PM
It hurts all the other contenders that the Heat are already better than.

Ha! Never thought of this.

So if you're one of the Top 5 teams in the league, everything will eventually balance out. I like this.

lakers4sho
11-27-2011, 06:37 PM
Well maybe we arent having the same discussion because it has everything to do with what Im talking about (Perceived Parity across sports). Its one of the single greatest distinguishing factors between the 2 sports. The very notion that the # of games played in a series is irrelevant in determining a winner gos against basic statistical principles, more importantly, it gos against common sense. Cmon people have been saying this for years, its no coincidence that March Madness has more Cinderella stories, its much easier to win a single game than it is 2, than 3, than 4.

If we worked under this operation the NBA would have a greater variance in their yearly results, thus yielding this so called parity when in actuality what works for one sport doesnt translate to the next.

:clap:

KnicksR4Real
11-27-2011, 06:49 PM
Boo!

beasted86
11-27-2011, 06:56 PM
Remember the article says salary cap, not luxury tax.

There are maybe 5-6 teams operating below the cap in general, and likely none that that would claim these players. There's a reason these guys are getting waived.

A team like Indiana who has been waiting to get cap space forever, isn't going to blow it on Rashard Lewis and Gilbert Arenas even if they come at a $3M/year discount. The same bodes for a majority of teams with cap space.

The goods
11-27-2011, 07:00 PM
Its messed up at first I agree but at the same time its fair because nobody is going to the bucks,warriors,76ers,suns ect. By choice theirs going to LA,miami,and chi all the big markets teams are getting better while the small market suffers even more atleast now the competion will be better.

PacersForLife
11-27-2011, 07:09 PM
I don't think this is a big problem for the players. Young teams that are looking for free agents probably don't care about old players that are towards the end of their careers. They want to add to their young nucleus, therefore the old players like Rashard Lewis, Baron Davis and such will probably still have a high chance of playing for contending teams. I'm not exactly sure how it all works, but this is my opinion. I also like this rule.

llemon
11-27-2011, 07:10 PM
Remember the article says salary cap, not luxury tax.

There are maybe 5-6 teams operating below the cap in general, and likely none that that would claim these players. There's a reason these guys are getting waived.

A team like Indiana who has been waiting to get cap space forever, isn't going to blow it on Rashard Lewis and Gilbert Arenas even if they come at a $3M/year discount. The same bodes for a majority of teams with cap space.

The way I counted them, there could be up to 18 teams below the cap (some would have to amnesty a player).

And why would bidding begin at $3 mil? It will probably begin at the Vet's Min.

PacersForLife
11-27-2011, 07:10 PM
Its messed up at first I agree but at the same time its fair because nobody is going to the bucks,warriors,76ers,suns ect. By choice theirs going to LA,miami,and chi all the big markets teams are getting better while the small market suffers even more atleast now the competion will be better.

Exactly :clap:

da ThRONe
11-27-2011, 07:20 PM
Great stipulation to the amnesty rule.

If they were allowed to hit the open market this rule would kill parity in the league.

daleja424
11-27-2011, 07:26 PM
The way I counted them, there could be up to 18 teams below the cap (some would have to amnesty a player).

And why would bidding begin at $3 mil? It will probably begin at the Vet's Min.

Keep in mind that rookies need to be signed, players resigned, and there are various cap holds that can weigh a team down as well.

topdog
11-27-2011, 07:30 PM
To those whining about players' "freedom" being in jeopardy with this waiver system, think about the fact that anyone in the league can be traded (like Rashard Lewis). They have guaranteed contracts, so if they want that "freedom" to sign wherever, don't sign guaranteed deals.

beasted86
11-27-2011, 07:31 PM
The way I counted them, there could be up to 18 teams below the cap (some would have to amnesty a player).

And why would bidding begin at $3 mil? It will probably begin at the Vet's Min.
The last time I checked there were around 8 teams with cap space going into this summer, that didn't have a pending free agent they were likely to try and re-sign that would put them over it.

I can easily say without looking that there won't be 18 teams under the cap even with amnesty.

As for the bidding, some of these guys are considered cancers or possible detriments to teams. Some of these guys won't even get a MIN bid if the GM knows the player is going to be a malcontent for the 2-3 years left on his deal.

da ThRONe
11-27-2011, 07:41 PM
To those whining about players' "freedom" being in jeopardy with this waiver system, think about the fact that anyone in the league can be traded (like Rashard Lewis). They have guaranteed contracts, so if they want that "freedom" to sign wherever, don't sign guaranteed deals.

Agreed. This is the trade off for guaranteed contracts and is more than fair. The slavery talk is ridiculous.

You aren't a free agent until your contract expires.

Captain Moroni
11-27-2011, 07:43 PM
Great stipulation to the amnesty rule.

If they were allowed to hit the open market this rule would kill parity in the league.

Exactly

Valkyrie
11-27-2011, 07:45 PM
So wait i dont completely understand... will those amnesty players be forced to sign with smaller markets? can someone just sum this up in like 1 sentence

llemon
11-27-2011, 07:46 PM
Keep in mind that rookies need to be signed, players resigned, and there are various cap holds that can weigh a team down as well.

Under the cap.......

Bobcats
Cavs
Nuggets
Pistons
Warriors
Rockets
Pacers
Clippers
Bucks
Twolves
Nets
Hornets
Suns
Kings
Raptors
Wizards

Possible that Thunder and Utah get under cap, and even Magic could get under the cap if they amnesty Arenas and 'stretch' Hedo.

Captain Moroni
11-27-2011, 07:46 PM
The last time I checked there were around 8 teams with cap space going into this summer, that didn't have a pending free agent they were likely to try and re-sign that would put them over it.

I can easily say without looking that there won't be 18 teams under the cap even with amnesty.

As for the bidding, some of these guys are considered cancers or possible detriments to teams. Some of these guys won't even get a MIN bid if the GM knows the player is going to be a malcontent for the 2-3 years left on his deal.

You are missing the whole point. The idea of this is to stop the Heat Lakers Bulls and Knicks from getting what they really want in these amnesty players. And believe me, someone is going to pick up Davis, Lewis, etc.

da ThRONe
11-27-2011, 07:47 PM
So wait i dont completely understand... will those amnesty players be forced to sign with smaller markets? can someone just sum this up in like 1 sentence

I imagine it will be like the NFL wavier wire. Where the worst teams gets first dibs.

Valkyrie
11-27-2011, 07:48 PM
I imagine it will be like the NFL wavier wire. Where the worst teams gets first dibs.

But what if the player that gets cut is willing to take a paycut to sign with a contender and doesnt care about money?

justinnum1
11-27-2011, 07:49 PM
:laugh2:

Knicks, Heat, Lakers and Bull fans dreams are crushed

Yea, 2 wins from the championship and our team is now healthy...really crushed:rolleyes:

Valkyrie
11-27-2011, 07:49 PM
So it's bascially the team with the highest bid gets the player?

llemon
11-27-2011, 07:50 PM
I imagine it will be like the NFL wavier wire. Where the worst teams gets first dibs.

No, I believe this is different. All teams with capspace can bid for amnestied players. At least that's my understanding, at this point.

topdog
11-27-2011, 07:50 PM
So wait i dont completely understand... will those amnesty players be forced to sign with smaller markets? can someone just sum this up in like 1 sentence

If a team under the cap wants an amnestied player, they can bid for them (against other under-the-cap teams). If no one under the cap bids, that player becomes a free agent.

da ThRONe
11-27-2011, 07:51 PM
But what if the player that gets cut is willing to take a paycut to sign with a contender and doesnt care about money?

One again these guys are under contract so they don't have a say. The same as any trade. If there was a clause where they could forfeit the money their due that would be different.

daleja424
11-27-2011, 07:51 PM
That is my understanding as well.

I would guess they will open it first to teams with cap space.

Then open it up to teams over the cap using exceptions.

Then the player will become a UFA if unclaimed still.

Captain Moroni
11-27-2011, 07:51 PM
So wait i dont completely understand... will those amnesty players be forced to sign with smaller markets? can someone just sum this up in like 1 sentence

In my opinion, no one is getting "signed" just claimed in some sort of "posting" or Bidding war.
So if Rashard Lewis is dropped by the Wizards, he is owed 22 million by washington each of the next 2 seasons. If Charlotte bids $2 million per year for him and wins that bid, they would have him for 2 years and pay him 4 million total. (Lewis would have no choice in the matter)The remaining 40 million he was owed will be payed by the Wizards. But the 44 million will not count against Washingtons salary cap.

topdog
11-27-2011, 07:51 PM
So it's bascially the team with the highest bid gets the player?

Of the under-the-cap teams, yes.

Valkyrie
11-27-2011, 07:53 PM
damn. how did we just find this out? hopefully it isnt true

llemon
11-27-2011, 07:55 PM
But what if the player that gets cut is willing to take a paycut to sign with a contender and doesnt care about money?

I don't think that the NBA considers these players cut, but they are drawing a salary and are property of the NBA.

Now I suppose if the player wanted to renounce his salary, the NBA MIGHT let that player become a FA. That's my best guess.

Captain Moroni
11-27-2011, 08:00 PM
I don't think that the NBA considers these players cut, but they are drawing a salary and are property of the NBA.

Now I suppose if the player wanted to renounce his salary, the NBA MIGHT let that player become a FA. That's my best guess.

Why would a player do that? If the Heat want Rashard Lewis why would he "Renounce 44 million dollars to become a FA so Miami can sign him for 1.3 million? No way these guys are giving up 40 million dollars.
Baron Davis? Same boat.
If the Knicks amnesty Balkman, he is making 1.5 million. If Chicago, the Lakers or Heat wanted him, I am sure the Knicks would give him too you.
No one is leaving a cent on the table. Have you forgotten these are NBA players?

likemystylez
11-27-2011, 08:03 PM
One again these guys are under contract so they don't have a say. The same as any trade. If there was a clause where they could forfeit the money their due that would be different.

well any player has the right to negotiate a buy out of their contract. Unfortunately the more the player wants out... the less the team has to pay to buy his contract. Infact the team might just offer to release him and void his contract ... taking him off the cap AND not paying him AND still having an amnesty clause to use on another player. I dont see most amnesty canidates willing to void their contracts.

llemon
11-27-2011, 08:05 PM
Why would a player do that? If the Heat want Rashard Lewis why would he "Renounce 44 million dollars to become a FA so Miami can sign him for 1.3 million? No way these guys are giving up 40 million dollars.
Baron Davis? Same boat.
If the Knicks amnesty Balkman, he is making 1.5 million. If Chicago, the Lakers or Heat wanted him, I am sure the Knicks would give him too you.
No one is leaving a cent on the table. Have you forgotten these are NBA players?

I have no idea WHY they would do it.

I'm just suggesting a scenario.

kblo247
11-27-2011, 08:15 PM
Top amnesty names won't be impacted because their top level agents will let it be known that they won't just play anwhere which makes me lol at Minny, Sacramento, etc and their fans who will be butt hurt when they shoot straight and say no one wants to be stuck in those crap cities, with crap management, crap coaching, and a crap chance of winning. That will be so funny to me to hear them crying and *****ing when Baron, Gilbert, Rip, Rashard, and those other guys basically say nope through their agents, you better not bid on us because we aint going all out for you and still end up in Miami, LA, and so on.

The only guys impacted by the bids are the bad contracted young amnesty talent like Travis Outlaw or Tyrus Thomas who fools in Minnesota and Sacramento management would likely give an over priced deal to anyhow under the pretext of potential. Possibly Mike Miller too because he has a bad couple of seasons health wise and low salary

Keeping it 100

king4day
11-27-2011, 08:22 PM
Kyle Orton wanted to get claimed by Chicago but instead was picked up by KC. Nobody is crying.
Players like Stephen Jackson get traded and are upset but guess what? That's the business! Suck it up! This isn't a "play with your friends" league. They are still under contract.

This rule is fantastic. Chances are, no crappy team will pickup Lewis or Arenas if they are trying to rebuild so the Heat and Knicks and so forth will get good players that are released anyway. It's just that now, no team can just sign everyone, further ruining the competitive balance of the league.

It's a good day in basketball.

likemystylez
11-27-2011, 08:23 PM
Top amnesty names won't be impacted because their agents will let it be known that they won't just play anwhere which makes me lol at Minny, Sacramento, etc and their fans who will be butt hurt when they shoot straight and say no one wants to be stuck in those crap cities, with crap management, crap coaching, and a crap chance of winning. That will be so funny to me to hear them crying and *****ing when Baron, Gilbert, Rip, Rashard, and those other guys basically say nope through their agents, you better not bid on us because we aint going all out for you and still end up in Miami, LA, and so on.

The only guys impacted by the bids are the bad contracted young amnesty talent like Travis Outlaw or Tyrus Thomas who fools in Minnesota and Sacramento management would likely give an over priced deal to anyhow under the pretext of potential. Possibly Mike Miller too because he has a bad couple of seasons health wise and low salary

Keeping it 100

so wait- I wonder how trading an amnetised player will work then. I'm thinking that the owners will not allow players like baron to force their way into Miami.... the melo deal is something the owners didnt want.

How would trades work though. If Min signs baron davis for 100 dollars a year because NO other team made an offer.... could they turn around and offer to trade him to miami for something valuable.

The entire point of this is to even out the competition in the league. LOL it makes no sense for playoff teams to keep getting better.

If a players agent really forces the situation lik that, the team should have the outright freedom to just void barons contract and let him go sign with the heat.... or they should be able to force miami to make a trade for baron davis with clevland.

llemon
11-27-2011, 08:24 PM
Top amnesty names won't be impacted because their agents will let it be known that they won't just play anwhere which makes me lol at Minny, Sacramento, etc and their fans who will be butt hurt when they shoot straight and say no one wants to be stuck in those crap cities, with crap management, crap coaching, and a crap chance of winning. That will be so funny to me to hear them crying and *****ing when Baron, Gilbert, Rip, Rashard, and those other guys basically say nope through their agents, you better not bid on us because we aint going all out for you and still end up in Miami, LA, and so on.

The only guys impacted by the bids are the bad contracted young amnesty talent like Travis Outlaw or Tyrus Thomas who fools in Minnesota and Sacramento management would likely give an over priced deal to anyhow under the pretext of potential. Possibly Mike Miller too because he has a bad couple of seasons health wise and low salary

Keeping it 100

If Baron gets a Vets Min bid, what's he gonna do, cry?

If he acts like a jerk, he gets waived, put on the waiver list and gets picked up by another bad team for his new salary, the Vets' Min.

Out of 18 teams, you think none are gonna offer the Vets' Min?

Not that Baron is worth much more than that.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2011, 08:30 PM
Top amnesty names won't be impacted because their top level agents will let it be known that they won't just play anwhere which makes me lol at Minny, Sacramento, etc and their fans who will be butt hurt when they shoot straight and say no one wants to be stuck in those crap cities, with crap management, crap coaching, and a crap chance of winning. That will be so funny to me to hear them crying and *****ing when Baron, Gilbert, Rip, Rashard, and those other guys basically say nope through their agents, you better not bid on us because we aint going all out for you and still end up in Miami, LA, and so on.

The only guys impacted by the bids are the bad contracted young amnesty talent like Travis Outlaw or Tyrus Thomas who fools in Minnesota and Sacramento management would likely give an over priced deal to anyhow under the pretext of potential. Possibly Mike Miller too because he has a bad couple of seasons health wise and low salary

Keeping it 100

You have literally changed a lot in the past few months. You were once respectful, and debated with patience. What happened to you?

They don't have a choice bro. They will be auctioned off basically. If they don't report, they are in breach of contract. This works like a trade.

Very simple, no?

Muttman73
11-27-2011, 08:38 PM
:laugh2:

Knicks, Heat, Lakers and Bull fans dreams are crushed

Um, think again...Bulls are under the cap

llemon
11-27-2011, 08:40 PM
Gotta admit that I'd love to see Arenas on Heat or Lakers.

likemystylez
11-27-2011, 08:42 PM
Gotta admit that I'd love to see Arenas on Heat or Lakers.

they can get him... maybe trade gasol and walton for arenas and bass?... when you consider what the lakers gave up for gasol... its really not that bad of a trade.

llemon
11-27-2011, 08:42 PM
Um, think again...Bulls are under the cap

Bulls payroll right now is at $65.9 mil

llemon
11-27-2011, 08:45 PM
they can get him... maybe trade gasol and walton for arenas and bass?... when you consider what the lakers gave up for gasol... its really not that bad of a trade.

That should keep Dwight in Orlando, and drive Mike Brown and Kobe crazy.

I love that trade.

chicago lulz
11-27-2011, 08:46 PM
Kyle Orton wanted to get claimed by Chicago but instead was picked up by KC. Nobody is crying.
Players like Stephen Jackson get traded and are upset but guess what? That's the business! Suck it up! This isn't a "play with your friends" league. They are still under contract.

This rule is fantastic. Chances are, no crappy team will pickup Lewis or Arenas if they are trying to rebuild so the Heat and Knicks and so forth will get good players that are released anyway. It's just that now, no team can just sign everyone, further ruining the competitive balance of the league.

It's a good day in basketball.

I feel like a lot of fans/players forget about this. Like I said, I'm all for this, especially if it creates that competitive balance.

Valkyrie
11-27-2011, 08:48 PM
maybe trade gasol and walton for arenas and bass?...

lol

Kevj77
11-27-2011, 09:02 PM
No problem with this at all. Sure some of the amnesty players will get picked up, but not all of them. Teams that want them get first dibs if the have cap space. If players don't get picked up fans can't complain about them signing with tax teams because any team under the cap could have put in a bid.

daleja424
11-27-2011, 09:05 PM
Um, think again...Bulls are under the cap

They most certainly are not. They are sitting at 65 million right now and have a hige Rose extension looming right around the corner.

kjoke
11-27-2011, 09:07 PM
Even as a HEAT fan, I like this. It adds much more competition, without hindering other teams in different ways.

justinnum1
11-27-2011, 09:10 PM
Um, think again...Bulls are under the cap

Not after they pay rose

justinnum1
11-27-2011, 09:11 PM
They most certainly are not. They are sitting at 65 million right now and have a hige Rose extension looming right around the corner.

This!!!!...and rose will make like 10mil more next year...thats over the tax

kblo247
11-27-2011, 09:25 PM
You have literally changed a lot in the past few months. You were once respectful, and debated with patience. What happened to you?

They don't have a choice bro. They will be auctioned off basically. If they don't report, they are in breach of contract. This works like a trade.

Very simple, no?

Inept small market owners and teams took away almost a fourth of my season, summer league, made NBA TV an endless rerun, and so on is what happened. It wasnt LA that had the problem or any good and competent owner/team complaining, just teams asking for a bailout from their mistakes and system to protect them from themselves which pisses me off. It was not like the players went on strike or forced teams to overpay them, because they always had the right to say no that is too much as an owner or exec, not sell off picks left and right like a two dollar whore ala Sarver, as well as make deals not fully guaranteed. I can't excuse that nor will I pretend that parity is what the league was built on or needs to be successful, as it has always been star and dynasty oriented. My judgment isn't clouded, it is just truthful about the fact teams put themselves where they were at and made the fans and good owners suffer losses because they wanted handouts in revenue sharing, guaranteed profits like in no other business, to restrict movement despite restricted free agency pretty much locking a player up for 7-10 years if an offer sheet is involved, and to basically have a system that tries to limit their own stupidity from crippling them like children

The players always have a choice with this auction, not show up. They will have a union if there is a CBA so they will have someone to fight for them and the top names have the top agents who generally don't take ****. The auction system isn't that different from a buyout waiver. Teams under the cap always had the option to claim a guy freshly waived from a buyout off waivers if they had the room. The fact is if a player doesn't want to go he will tell Tellam, and you can bet he will let it be known in the press, management, and so on to not bid on said disgruntled guy . They aren't being traded there and paid fully by that team, they rent choosing to go there, and past amnesties show that they can make up their own minds about destinations. I say that the star or well known names choose their own route because they have already been paid, already have the best agents and lawyers from their surplus of cash, and want to win instead of rot just like Michael Finley for instance did when he got amnestied years ago. The young guys who get cut, don't have the fattest of bank accounts, have many years left, and dillusions of being the guy or piece to get a team in contention because of their potential like Outlaw, Thomas, and so on go to those small markets where they can feel like they are big fish in small ponds while remaining under the radar from constant media scrutiny, and collect a check.

ManRam
11-27-2011, 09:27 PM
Just saw this.

In short, good news.

JWO35
11-27-2011, 09:28 PM
Finally something for the small markets...

Chronz
11-27-2011, 09:36 PM
Lets say a player doesnt want to play for that franchise and the franchise itself knows the player wouldnt play for them. Couldnt the 2 sides come to an agreement where the team that wins him in waivers (the team thats picking up the tab) will facilitate a trade to a number of other destinations? Maybe thats complicating things or dehumanizing to move players around like the assets that they are but it sounds fair to me. Players gos to play somewhere he wants, team that picks up the tab gets picks and such.

daleja424
11-27-2011, 09:40 PM
cant be traded for 60 days...right?

king4day
11-27-2011, 09:41 PM
so the players get cut by a team they chose to play for, then can be signed by a team they don't want to go to?

why the hell would the players agree to that? They aren't asking to be cut in the first place but in the end, they are still being paid the contract they signed. It's only right that they don't have first right to choose where they go.


Top amnesty names won't be impacted because their top level agents will let it be known that they won't just play anwhere which makes me lol at Minny, Sacramento, etc and their fans who will be butt hurt when they shoot straight and say no one wants to be stuck in those crap cities, with crap management, crap coaching, and a crap chance of winning. That will be so funny to me to hear them crying and *****ing when Baron, Gilbert, Rip, Rashard, and those other guys basically say nope through their agents, you better not bid on us because we aint going all out for you and still end up in Miami, LA, and so on.

The only guys impacted by the bids are the bad contracted young amnesty talent like Travis Outlaw or Tyrus Thomas who fools in Minnesota and Sacramento management would likely give an over priced deal to anyhow under the pretext of potential. Possibly Mike Miller too because he has a bad couple of seasons health wise and low salary

Keeping it 100

What's the difference between this and a player getting traded? You don't play, then your breaching your contract. I'm pretty sure the initial team that signed 'said player' would be ecstatic to have valid reasons to void a nasty contract.

I understand your points but don't think players will have issue with this. It's not like they're signing a new contract. They are signed through the rest of their current deal so it's not much different than being traded.


Just saw this.

In short, good news.

I don't have time to read everything you wrote but from the parts I did read, I agree :)

iggypop123
11-27-2011, 09:42 PM
im having trouble understanding this. is this like baseball in the post trade deadline when trades can happen when its a waiver system and teams can basically cockblock contenders without the intention of signing them. rashard lewis can get offered the remaining years in his contract and 3 mil per but if he rejects he hits the open market or not? confusing. or if he is claimed he can only negotiate with the teams that claimed him and is banned from talking to the tax paying teams.

Wade>You
11-27-2011, 09:43 PM
Finally something for the small markets...It's for teams under the cap, not small markets.

Hellcrooner
11-27-2011, 09:44 PM
Lets say a player doesnt want to play for that franchise and the franchise itself knows the player wouldnt play for them. Couldnt the 2 sides come to an agreement where the team that wins him in waivers (the team thats picking up the tab) will facilitate a trade to a number of other destinations? Maybe thats complicating things or dehumanizing to move players around like the assets that they are but it sounds fair to me. Players gos to play somewhere he wants, team that picks up the tab gets picks and such.


you mean more dehumanized than DRAFT, being traded wihtout consent, RFA ?

nate2usmc
11-27-2011, 09:44 PM
Inept small market owners and teams took away almost a fourth of my season, summer league, made NBA TV an endless rerun, and so on is what happened. It wasnt LA that had the problem or any good and competent owner/team complaining, just teams asking for a bailout from their mistakes and system to protect them from themselves which pisses me off. It was not like the players went on strike or forced teams to overpay them, because they always had the right to say no that is too much as an owner or exec, not sell off picks left and right like a two dollar whore ala Sarver, as well as make deals not fully guaranteed. I can't excuse that nor will I pretend that parity is what the league was built on or needs to be successful, as it has always been star and dynasty oriented. My judgment isn't clouded, it is just truthful about the fact teams put themselves where they were at and made the fans and good owners suffer losses because they wanted handouts in revenue sharing, guaranteed profits like in no other business, to restrict movement despite restricted free agency pretty much locking a player up for 7-10 years if an offer sheet is involved, and to basically have a system that tries to limit their own stupidity from crippling them like children

The players always have a choice with this auction, not show up. They will have a union if there is a CBA so they will have someone to fight for them and the top names have the top agents who generally don't take ****. The auction system isn't that different from a buyout waiver. Teams under the cap always had the option to claim a guy freshly waived from a buyout off waivers if they had the room. The fact is if a player doesn't want to go he will tell Tellam, and you can bet he will let it be known in the press, management, and so on to not bid on said disgruntled guy . They aren't being traded there and paid fully by that team, they rent choosing to go there, and past amnesties show that they can make up their own minds about destinations. I say that the star or well known names choose their own route because they have already been paid, already have the best agents and lawyers from their surplus of cash, and want to win instead of rot just like Michael Finley for instance did when he got amnestied years ago. The young guys who get cut, don't have the fattest of bank accounts, have many years left, and dillusions of being the guy or piece to get a team in contention because of their potential like Outlaw, Thomas, and so on go to those small markets where they can feel like they are big fish in small ponds while remaining under the radar from constant media scrutiny, and collect a check.

Definitely agree with the bolded part. I can't stand the idea of handouts. Most of the time, the same people who are pro-owner and for small market competition are most of the time against the current welfare system or food stamps etc. It's weird lol

Hellcrooner
11-27-2011, 09:44 PM
It's for teams under the cap, not small markets...

they are too stupid to understand it.

This will be chicagos and okc ticket to being even more serious contenders.

Hellcrooner
11-27-2011, 09:46 PM
Definitely agree with the bolded part. I can't stand the idea of handouts. Most of the time, the same people who are pro-owner and for small market competition are most of the time against the current welfare system or food stamps etc. It's weird lol

i think politics and the game should not be mixed.

If we are tlaking bout LAW and civil rights, then yep they need to be mixed one of this days.
it woudl be a bad day for owners btw. providing teh judge is not a corrupt mother****ed.

kblo247
11-27-2011, 09:49 PM
Do people really get that not many teams are under the cap? Only a handfull can even compete in the auction and a lot of hem won't want a guy who doesn't want to be there or can be a possible cancer.

Once that small group bids, it is free game to the overwhelming majority of the league who is over or at the cap, and guys with names will still go where they want to be.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2011, 09:50 PM
Inept small market owners and teams took away almost a fourth of my season, summer league, made NBA TV an endless rerun, and so on is what happened. It wasnt LA that had the problem or any good and competent owner/team complaining, just teams asking for a bailout from their mistakes and system to protect them from themselves which pisses me off. It was not like the players went on strike or forced teams to overpay them, because they always had the right to say no that is too much as an owner or exec, not sell off picks left and right like a two dollar whore ala Sarver, as well as make deals not fully guaranteed. I can't excuse that nor will I pretend that parity is what the league was built on or needs to be successful, as it has always been star and dynasty oriented. My judgment isn't clouded, it is just truthful about the fact teams put themselves where they were at and made the fans and good owners suffer losses because they wanted handouts in revenue sharing, guaranteed profits like in no other business, to restrict movement despite restricted free agency pretty much locking a player up for 7-10 years if an offer sheet is involved, and to basically have a system that tries to limit their own stupidity from crippling them like children

The players always have a choice with this auction, not show up. They will have a union if there is a CBA so they will have someone to fight for them and the top names have the top agents who generally don't take ****. The auction system isn't that different from a buyout waiver. Teams under the cap always had the option to claim a guy freshly waived from a buyout off waivers if they had the room. The fact is if a player doesn't want to go he will tell Tellam, and you can bet he will let it be known in the press, management, and so on to not bid on said disgruntled guy . They aren't being traded there and paid fully by that team, they rent choosing to go there, and past amnesties show that they can make up their own minds about destinations. I say that the star or well known names choose their own route because they have already been paid, already have the best agents and lawyers from their surplus of cash, and want to win instead of rot just like Michael Finley for instance did when he got amnestied years ago. The young guys who get cut, don't have the fattest of bank accounts, have many years left, and dillusions of being the guy or piece to get a team in contention because of their potential like Outlaw, Thomas, and so on go to those small markets where they can feel like they are big fish in small ponds while remaining under the radar from constant media scrutiny, and collect a check.


From this Daniel Steele novel, I only needed the first line. Inept owners come from big markets too.

Again, I have no idea why you have become such an aggressive poster, and irrational. I understand you rarely post outside Laker topics, but I have lost a decent amount of respect for you man. And I hope that changes down the line. You are acting like a spoiled rich market fan that thinks the small market teams are in your teams way, so **** them. Its arrogant.

Last time I respond to any post you make regarding this lockout/CBA.

daleja424
11-27-2011, 09:51 PM
they are too stupid to understand it.

This will be chicagos and okc ticket to being even more serious contenders.

FWIW, Chicago is way over the cap and OKC is at the moment as well (as a result of some cap holds that are on the books for them right now)

iggypop123
11-27-2011, 09:52 PM
yup just read it. if claimed players would basically be forced to go to one of the teams he was claimed by. so unfair to those guys. but it does prove to me the lockout was all about power. they want to dictate what happens to guys not have players have freedom. this is simply exchanging their property around.

daleja424
11-27-2011, 09:54 PM
yup just read it. if claimed players would basically be forced to go to one of the teams he was claimed by. so unfair to those guys. but it does prove to me the lockout was all about power. they want to dictate what happens to guys not have players have freedom. this is simply exchanging their property around.

how is it unfair to them? They signed those contracts (and in doing so without no-trade clauses committed to playing for the duration of them).

CityofTreez
11-27-2011, 09:56 PM
how is it unfair to them? They signed those contracts (and in doing so without no-trade clauses committed to playing for the duration of them).

It's unfair because they are fans and they said so. DUH!

daleja424
11-27-2011, 09:57 PM
players never have control over where they go unless they are FAs. Trades and waiver wire transactions are out of their control. This is nothing new.

SteBO
11-27-2011, 09:57 PM
how is it unfair to them? They signed those contracts (and in doing so without no-trade clauses committed to playing for the duration of them).
I do understand what iggy is saying, but I agree with you. There's nothing wrong with creating a system where other teams under the cap have a shot at getting a good player. Sure the players would want better, but you can't have everything.....It's not like they're free agents in this situation. The NFL has the same thing put in place, and it's worked out pretty well for them.

daleja424
11-27-2011, 09:58 PM
I do understand what iggy is saying, but I agree with you. There's nothing wrong with creating a system where other teams under the cap have a shot at getting a good player. Sure the players would want better, but you can't have everything.....

Not even "creating a system." This is how the system always worked with waived players. Whoever has waiver priority gets the player. In this case they are modifying that process b/c no one will claim any of these guys for the amount of their full contract (as would have to be the case using a traditional waiver wire).

nate2usmc
11-27-2011, 09:59 PM
i think politics and the game should not be mixed.

If we are tlaking bout LAW and civil rights, then yep they need to be mixed one of this days.
it woudl be a bad day for owners btw. providing teh judge is not a corrupt mother****ed.

That's true sorta like Church and State shouldn't be lol

Also agree with the posts that state OKC and Chi-town are gonna take full advantage of this and get even better. Oh well, it is what it is. What good is to whine about this? :sigh:

daleja424
11-27-2011, 10:01 PM
That's true sorta like Church and State shouldn't be lol

Also agree with the posts that state OKC and Chi-town are gonna take full advantage of this and get even better. Oh well, it is what it is. What good is to whine about this? :sigh:

again.... Chi is not below the cap...

And OKC has some roster holds right now keeping them above cap... although they could get slightly below it before everything is said and done.

iggypop123
11-27-2011, 10:20 PM
I do understand what iggy is saying, but I agree with you. There's nothing wrong with creating a system where other teams under the cap have a shot at getting a good player. Sure the players would want better, but you can't have everything.....It's not like they're free agents in this situation. The NFL has the same thing put in place, and it's worked out pretty well for them.

but the team that claims them has to assume the remaining salary in those systems. in this case it would be getting a player for 80% off retail price. its completely different

BigCityofDreams
11-27-2011, 10:40 PM
Do people really get that not many teams are under the cap? Only a handfull can even compete in the auction and a lot of hem won't want a guy who doesn't want to be there or can be a possible cancer.

Once that small group bids, it is free game to the overwhelming majority of the league who is over or at the cap, and guys with names will still go where they want to be.

Exactly why even take the chance on a guy that has no desire to play for an organization he doesn't want to be apart of.

Vinylman
11-27-2011, 10:46 PM
They do not get to pick, they are basically being auctioned to the highest bidder.

Gumbel was right... Stern is the plantation owner... this is basically a slave auction

llemon
11-27-2011, 10:52 PM
Gumbel was right... Stern is the plantation owner... this is basically a slave auction

Can we fans put in bids.

NY-FLmagicknick
11-27-2011, 11:10 PM
Has anyone heard of a "stretch clause" that was added to the new cba. i read it in another thread and was wondering if it was true.

for example....
PLAYER X remaining 35 million 3 yr contract will affect the cap for the next 7 yrs instead of only the next 3, that means 5 million per year over the next 7 yrs

ChiSoxJuan
11-27-2011, 11:14 PM
Over-reacting much? The author seems to be making a leap as well. We've known from the beginning that all amnesty options would involve the player having to clear waivers before being re-assigned or released. This is no different than MLB or the NHL in that regards. Normally when a team claims a player off waivers they inherit the remainder of their contract. Under amnesty, the team losing the player has a limited right in determining where the player goes. That makes good sense to improve the competitive balance of the NBA.

Stretch amnesty or SAE double's the contract length & 1/2's the annual pay. These players have to clear waivers as well, so a similar process is expected.

Vinylman
11-27-2011, 11:18 PM
Any good links on the amnesty?

Is it a one year amensty or can it be every year?

does it apply to players bought out at the end of the year... this is what i am really interested in because it is where are the shenanigans occur.

Will a player who is bought out toward the deadline still be able to sign with anyone he wants for the minimum or will he have to go through the same waiver process that the amnesty players will?

LakersIn5
11-27-2011, 11:22 PM
the nba just took the players freedom to sign where they want. the hell its called free agent cuz they player is free to choose where to sign

likemystylez
11-27-2011, 11:28 PM
the nba just took the players freedom to sign where they want. the hell its called free agent cuz they player is free to choose where to sign

ummmm... an amnestized player is not a free agent. he is still under contract and still being compensated.

kylem4711
11-27-2011, 11:29 PM
could work out huge for a team like the clips

likemystylez
11-27-2011, 11:34 PM
Any good links on the amnesty?

Is it a one year amensty or can it be every year?


It's not every year, but its a one time thing over the life of the next CBA (between 6 and 10 yrs). I think it has to be used on a contract that was signed before the new cba

does it apply to players bought out at the end of the year... this is what i am really interested in because it is where are the shenanigans occur.

A player who is bought out is no longer under contract. However, if a player is negotiating a buy out JUST to go to another team, he isnt going to get that much of a precentage of his contract. Usually buy outs happen at the teams discretion.

Will a player who is bought out toward the deadline still be able to sign with anyone he wants for the minimum or will he have to go through the same waiver process that the amnesty players will?

Yes- but once again... it isnt easy for a player to initiate a buy out. If the player is just trying to go to a certain team, it will be harder for him to get a reasonable offer on the remainder of his contract.

If a player wants to outright void his contract, thats possible. But its rare for a player to leave a significant amount of money on the table to void his contract. Derek Fisher did this when he left Utah.

likemystylez
11-27-2011, 11:36 PM
could work out huge for a team like the clips

I think its a tool that could potentially bennefit ANY team in the league, it's just a matter of when they choose to use it. remember, a team can use it any time over the life of the cba.

It might not be in the best interest of a lot of teams to use it right away.... but the temptation will be there.

drew_ellis_23
11-27-2011, 11:39 PM
I like this clause. Now guys go to the highest bidder, and not just a contender with no cap space. Crappy teams don't usually bid for the type of players this was put in place for so basically middle of the pack teams with cap space can get better. I think this will make things a little more interesting. Nice!

Wade>You
11-27-2011, 11:42 PM
I actually like it, but this new amnesty rule is really intriguing:

a) will it be used properly? This could really benefit a team like Memphis or New Orleans.
b) will teams take advantage to use these players as trade bait to contenders in exchange for a younger player, pick, cash, etc? OR
c) will it be a way to keep players from going to certain teams. Example: Wizards sign a player that the division rival Miami Heat would've signed. At the same time,
d) will it turn out to be a bidding war? How far are teams willing to go to sign these players and keep them from going to other markets? Anything more than the vet minimum - $3mil is not wise, IMO. Don't ask why owners are losing money and bad deals exist!

ChiSoxJuan
11-27-2011, 11:47 PM
This is going to create some major mid-season drama between Chicago & Miami that figure to be close in the standings ea yr. You could see the Bulls make a bid to block a player from going to Miami & vice versa. You don't see much blocking like this in the NHL but it does happen in MLB often enough.

showtym24
11-27-2011, 11:48 PM
Gonna be alot of trades then.....

NY-FLmagicknick
11-27-2011, 11:51 PM
Has anyone heard of a "stretch clause" that was added to the new cba. i read it in another thread and was wondering if it was true.

for example....
PLAYER X remaining 35 million 3 yr contract will affect the cap for the next 7 yrs instead of only the next 3, that means 5 million per year over the next 7 yrs

NEVERMIND I FOUND A LINK TO MY OWN QUESTION....THIS IS JUST ANOTHER WAY THE BIG SPENDING TEAMS CAN GET UNDER THE CAP TO BE ABLE TO BID ON THESE AMNESTY'D PLAYERS.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/cba-scenarios-the-stretch-clause/

nate2usmc
11-27-2011, 11:54 PM
again.... Chi is not below the cap...

And OKC has some roster holds right now keeping them above cap... although they could get slightly below it before everything is said and done.

Yea i definitely jumped to i definitely assumed they were...blonde moment :pity:

llemon
11-27-2011, 11:59 PM
Has anyone heard of a "stretch clause" that was added to the new cba. i read it in another thread and was wondering if it was true.

for example....
PLAYER X remaining 35 million 3 yr contract will affect the cap for the next 7 yrs instead of only the next 3, that means 5 million per year over the next 7 yrs

If Arenas is amnestied, and Hedo 'stretched', Magic could be like $8-10 mil under the cap.

They could get Rashard back at a much more reasonable price, although I'm not sure why they would want to.

FlashMacker
11-28-2011, 12:08 AM
it just means the chances of landing the more productive players waived will be much, much harder now for teams over the cap. As Lloyd Christmas said, "So you are telling me there's a chance".
The Lakers and Heat will now not be getting a shot at Lewis, Arenas, Davis, and those types. Someone will pick them up, if not just to keep them away from those teams.




:p That fit perfect

likemystylez
11-28-2011, 12:19 AM
If Arenas is amnestied, and Hedo 'stretched', Magic could be like $8-10 mil under the cap.

They could get Rashard back at a much more reasonable price, although I'm not sure why they would want to.

LOL- thatd crack me up

TRF929
11-28-2011, 01:03 AM
I love this rule!!! And everyone needs to stop crying about it, a team can only do this once within the next cba. So this can only happen 30 times within 10 years, you act like this is going to be a regular thing. The players still get their whole contract and I don't see whay anyone would complain. Apparently the player isnt working out with the team that decides to use the amnesty and instead of sitting on the bench the rest of their contract, this allows a team that wants him, to get him and play him on the floor

soundjunkies2
11-28-2011, 01:22 AM
How many teams under the cap will actually want to sign a player like Arenas or Baron Davis? Also considering there are few teams under the cap I don't see this effecting the big spenders who would be willing to spend on these players all that much.

Tony_Starks
11-28-2011, 01:23 AM
Horrible rule but whatever at least basketball is back. I guess the owners weren't joking when they said amnesty is ok "until Miami picks up Baron Davis." The new cba is obviously intended to punish the winners and reward the losers but as long as basketball is back its all good!....

Lakerfrk
11-28-2011, 01:33 AM
so the players get cut by a team they chose to play for, then can be signed by a team they don't want to go to?

why the hell would the players agree to that?

... its like getting traded.

llemon
11-28-2011, 01:34 AM
Horrible rule but whatever at least basketball is back. I guess the owners weren't joking when they said amnesty is ok "until Miami picks up Baron Davis." The new cba is obviously intended to punish the winners and reward the losers but as long as basketball is back its all good!....

Punish the winners and reward the losers. Wasn't that the principal reason for the lockout? And money.

C-Style
11-28-2011, 01:35 AM
Makes sense!

Lakers and big markets will eventually benefit from this rule. We are contenders in the meanwhile, we can still bid with free agents in the meantime(so I hope).

Super.
11-28-2011, 01:36 AM
haha i just posted a thread about this, did not see this

and yes this is awesome

Ftfy buddy ;)

llemon
11-28-2011, 01:42 AM
How many teams under the cap will actually want to sign a player like Arenas or Baron Davis? Also considering there are few teams under the cap I don't see this effecting the big spenders who would be willing to spend on these players all that much.

Half the league is under the cap. Maybe more.

Why not acquire a humiliated cancer for $1 mil.

Tony_Starks
11-28-2011, 01:49 AM
Punish the winners and reward the losers. Wasn't that the principal reason for the lockout? And money.


Yessir! At least we got the game back though. At this point the rules don't even matter for me just bring on Christmas....

Sactown
11-28-2011, 01:57 AM
Lol at all this "it's unfair!" It's pretty much allowing teams to sell of parts of a players contract for the player themselves... not a big deal IMO

conway429
11-28-2011, 02:09 AM
yeah anyone who thinks this is unfair must think that players getting traded is unfair too, cause it's basically the same thing.
the player still gets paid his original contract, that he would have had to honor anyways, only now he plays for a team that actually wants him.

Anilyzer
11-28-2011, 02:11 AM
"It's so the Lakers can't go in there and scoop up all the players."

That is maybe the most unprofessional thing I've ever heard a pro sports league executive say.

Anilyzer
11-28-2011, 02:18 AM
I love this rule!!! And everyone needs to stop crying about it, a team can only do this once within the next cba. So this can only happen 30 times within 10 years, you act like this is going to be a regular thing. The players still get their whole contract and I don't see whay anyone would complain. Apparently the player isnt working out with the team that decides to use the amnesty and instead of sitting on the bench the rest of their contract, this allows a team that wants him, to get him and play him on the floor

There is an element of unfairness. First off, LT teams (who are, by the way, subsidizing the weak teams) also are waiving amnesty players. But, the low salary teams get their pick of all those players as well? What about low salry high profit teams like the Clippers, who intentionally don't pay well? Clipers will be all over this, probably get Baron Davis BACK after trading him for 10 cents on te dollar. Clippers always take from the league, never give.

Whoever started this lame idea that paying NBA stars well is killing the league needs to think a bit harder

llemon
11-28-2011, 02:19 AM
That is maybe the most unprofessional thing I've ever heard a pro sports league executive say.

And maybe the most true?

llemon
11-28-2011, 02:22 AM
There is an element of unfairness. First off, LT teams (who are, by the way, subsidizing the weak teams) also are waiving amnesty players. But, the low salary teams get their pick of all those players as well? What about low salry high profit teams like the Clippers, who intentionally don't pay well? Clipers will be all over this, probably get Baron Davis BACK after trading him for 10 cents on te dollar. Clippers always take from the league, never give.

Whoever started this lame idea that paying NBA stars well is killing the league needs to think a bit harder

Yeah, Clippers were REAL happy with Baron the 1st time around.

If they bid on Davis, the motive will be revenge.

Wade>You
11-28-2011, 03:14 AM
David Aldridge was on NBA-TV and he said that the amnesty thing will have some type of bidding system so not every player can just "go to Miami", which he said somewhat jokingly.lol

iggypop123
11-28-2011, 03:15 AM
looks like this is already going into effect. rumor is roy is going to get amnestied according to espn the twolves already are interested in him.

Kevj77
11-28-2011, 03:24 AM
Does anyone know how the bids work? When more than one team wants a amnesty player. Is it a blind bid that goes to the best bid or will we see bidding wars?

da ThRONe
11-28-2011, 03:36 AM
There is an element of unfairness. First off, LT teams (who are, by the way, subsidizing the weak teams) also are waiving amnesty players. But, the low salary teams get their pick of all those players as well? What about low salry high profit teams like the Clippers, who intentionally don't pay well? Clipers will be all over this, probably get Baron Davis BACK after trading him for 10 cents on te dollar. Clippers always take from the league, never give.

Whoever started this lame idea that paying NBA stars well is killing the league needs to think a bit harder

So what if the Clipper bid on him? How is that unfair. If they fit the criteria and place the winning bid where's the harm or lack of justice? The Clippers are notoriously bad them getting Baron back doesn't harm competitive balance.

Anilyzer
11-28-2011, 03:46 AM
The other unfair thing is, crap teams give horrible deals (such as Roy getting huge xtenion in P:rtland), then waive them on amnesty, and sign more players. But it all counts against the BRI number, with potential escrow refund implications. So the crap teams with bad contracts eat into the group compensation number with players they've waived, who are then signed for free by other teams, so the original team can "re-spend" that cap money--essentially going way over the cap ($17M a year extra over the cap in Portland's case) without paying any luxury tax.

In two years, the cows will come home to roost and the medium, not small, teams will really be stuck

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-28-2011, 04:09 AM
this is awful:laugh2:

lets say arenas will be amnestied and then some fool GM signs him for 10 mil a year...:facepalm:

da ThRONe
11-28-2011, 04:17 AM
The other unfair thing is, crap teams give horrible deals (such as Roy getting huge xtenion in P:rtland), then waive them on amnesty, and sign more players. But it all counts against the BRI number, with potential escrow refund implications. So the crap teams with bad contracts eat into the group compensation number with players they've waived, who are then signed for free by other teams, so the original team can "re-spend" that cap money--essentially going way over the cap ($17M a year extra over the cap in Portland's case) without paying any luxury tax.

In two years, the cows will come home to roost and the medium, not small, teams will really be stuck

First Brandon Roy is a horrible example. His career is were it is due to injury. If Kobe would have sustained a major injury would we call his deal a "crap" deal?

Second the system put a lot of teams in bad situation. Teams like ATL and MEM are forced to pay their star players like super star players in order to keep them. Rudy Gay or Joe Johnson could have bolted for teams like the Bulls, Lakers, Knicks, Heat etc. As a management group how do you convince fans to show up when your best player leaves?

Some of you large market fans need to understand. Sports leagues isn't like most businesses. Unlike other businesses in sports you need your competition without them you have nothing. The more competitive teams in the league the better the product. Who wants to see the Lakers beat up on the bottom feeding T'Wolves every night?

THE MORE GOOD TEAMS IN THE LEAGUE THE BETTER PRODUCT WE SEE ON AVERAGE!

Nobody cares what the name of the front of the jersey says(for the most part). It's the names on the back that sells ticket and/or get ratings. If the talent is dispensed through out the league somewhat evenly that would give us a reason to watch the majority of the league instead of focusing on only the large rev teams.

da ThRONe
11-28-2011, 04:20 AM
this is awful:laugh2:

lets say arenas will be amnestied and then some fool GM signs him for 10 mil a year...:facepalm:

Failing to see the awful part. Especially if your in the Magic front office.

I'm am not a fan of soft caps, but if that's the system they are rolling with and some team does something that dumb so be it. However that doesn't make this rule awful.

bholly
11-28-2011, 04:27 AM
I love this idea. I mentioned it a while back in another thread, and there was one part of it that I haven't seen mentioned that I think the NBA needs to consider:
Televised amnesty auctions.

Wouldn't that be the best **** ever? Especially if some decent guys get cut. I realize it doesn't really work, because all the cuts will be at different times and whatever, but still - wouldn't that be awesome?

Wade>You
11-28-2011, 04:39 AM
First Brandon Roy is a horrible example. His career is were it is due to injury. If Kobe would have sustained a major injury would we call his deal a "crap" deal?

Second the system put a lot of teams in bad situation. Teams like ATL and MEM are forced to pay their star players like super star players in order to keep them. Rudy Gay or Joe Johnson could have bolted for teams like the Bulls, Lakers, Knicks, Heat etc. As a management group how do you convince fans to show up when your best player leaves?

Some of you large market fans need to understand. Sports leagues isn't like most businesses. Unlike other businesses in sports you need your competition without them you have nothing. The more competitive teams in the league the better the product. Who wants to see the Lakers beat up on the bottom feeding T'Wolves every night?

THE MORE GOOD TEAMS IN THE LEAGUE THE BETTER PRODUCT WE SEE ON AVERAGE!

Nobody cares what the name of the front of the jersey says(for the most part). It's the names on the back that sells ticket and/or get ratings. If the talent is dispensed through out the league somewhat evenly that would give us a reason to watch the majority of the league instead of focusing on only the large rev teams.

The problem is, those teams are outbidding themselves. If Joe Johnson doesn't put your team over the top and/or can't get a better offer than what his team is offering him, his team needs to play that hand.

There's truth here, but a sport and its teams are successful when teams are acting in their own self-interest, much like a free market economy.

The NBA as a whole is doing great, the problem is there's an imbalance of teams that are making money and teams losing money. The new revenue sharing plan takes care of that and now there's no excuse as to why a team can't build a contender if they draft right, shed salary, and add a significant free agent.

Also, the health of the NBA's popularity is better when the Lakers and Celtics are competing, now that New York and Chicago are back on the map, and LBJ/Bosh/Wade joining Miami still remains one of the most talked about topics in sports one year after it happened.

Patman
11-28-2011, 08:22 AM
I don't see a problem with this system (Except for loopholes with the "stretch" clause, that would allow teams to go under the cap for these players). Will help to keep the players flocking to the big markets. Big Market fans shouldn't be to upset, FA etc. will still prefer you over the smaller markets, in the end your teams will be able to draw more talent then other teams.

And stop saying it is unfair to the players, those guys signed a multi year contract that guarantees them Millions of dollars no matter how bad they play (they don't need to produce anything after the deal is signed to get those 20-100 millions). As long as the team is paying the salary they have no choice where to go, this is not that different then a trade, after the initial contract is up they still are free agents. And players that have not enough freedom should just sign 1 year deals, or sign a CBA whitout guaranteed contracts. But it's about the money and not about freedom of choice.....
And how you can describe players that have guaranteed contracts (why no obligation to contribute in any way) as slaves is just byond me.

RevisIsland
11-28-2011, 09:06 AM
I wonder how much contenders would be willing to pay to take gambles on guys like Arenas, Baron, Rashard etc...

SteBO
11-28-2011, 09:10 AM
I wonder how much contenders would be willing to pay to take gambles on guys like Arenas, Baron, Rashard etc...
I know the Heat would take a serious look at Baron Davis......

LanceUpperCut
11-28-2011, 09:57 AM
So I guess it comes down to the fans of the big market contenders are mad cause they can't pick up a guy like Baron or Rashard for damn near nothing well another team pays his salary. Yeah poor big market teams always getting screwed(sarcasm)

Iggz53
11-28-2011, 10:35 AM
I don't think this is as big of a deal as some are making it. We're only talking about amnestied players (not all waived players or FA) meaning there will only be a max of 30 in the next 10 years.

And for those questioning the new rule from a player's rights standpoint, that's kinda how trades work: player has no say and his contract stays the same (still getting paid here, just not counting towards a payroll). Only difference is the original team gets at least some cap relief so I don't see a problem here either. I'm interested to see how they set up the bidding process.

tcav701
11-28-2011, 10:45 AM
You Laker/Heat fans are hilarious....

You guys were jumping for joy when the amnesty provision was rumored but are crying slavery when there are restrictions? You fanboys need to remember there are 30 teams in the league.

This is a trade, player for cash. Its really that simple.

The team using their amnesty on a player is trading that player to the team willing to pay the largest portion of his salary. This helps the team making the amnesty by lowering how much of the players salary they pay. This is not a rule to screw over big markets, its a rule to give teams the opportunity to get the most in return for their player.

Its a two sided deal which is also known as a trade.

These players are not free agents, they are under contract.

I'm having a hard time understanding the lack of comprehension here.

Hawkeye15
11-28-2011, 11:15 AM
You Laker/Heat fans are hilarious....

You guys were jumping for joy when the amnesty provision was rumored but are crying slavery when there are restrictions? You fanboys need to remember there are 30 teams in the league.

This is a trade, player for cash. Its really that simple.

The team using their amnesty on a player is trading that player to the team willing to pay the largest portion of his salary. This helps the team making the amnesty by lowering how much of the players salary they pay. This is not a rule to screw over big markets, its a rule to give teams the opportunity to get the most in return for their player.

Its a two sided deal which is also known as a trade.

These players are not free agents, they are under contract.

I'm having a hard time understanding the lack of comprehension here.

Its alarming how big of babies some of the over the cap, large market fans are being over this.

How the hell are the Lakers no longer contenders if they miss out on Rashard Lewis, and the mighty Bobcats sign him?

This isn't going to have the effect many think. Hell, I would guess only 5-10 teams max even use it right off the bat. Some of you actually thought the market would be flooded by 30 amnesty cuts? Seriously?

Grow up, remember the NBA is attempting to create some type of parity, and realize that its a good thing that the NBA isn't letting the superteams just stack up.

daleja424
11-28-2011, 11:25 AM
seriously... we are talking about like 5 guys...

tcav701
11-28-2011, 11:27 AM
Its alarming how big of babies some of the over the cap, large market fans are being over this.

How the hell are the Lakers no longer contenders if they miss out on Rashard Lewis, and the mighty Bobcats sign him?

This isn't going to have the effect many think. Hell, I would guess only 5-10 teams max even use it right off the bat. Some of you actually thought the market would be flooded by 30 amnesty cuts? Seriously?

Grow up, remember the NBA is attempting to create some type of parity, and realize that its a good thing that the NBA isn't letting the superteams just stack up.

I am a celtic fan and quite honestly, I figured the amnesty clause would help out the celtics just as much as any other team.

However, I am a bigger fan of the sport and the spirit of competition is better because of this. I'm also a fan of a more strict hard cap despite my team alliegance for the same reasons.

tcav701
11-28-2011, 11:27 AM
seriously... we are talking about like 5 guys...

I love 5 guys burgers....

Not sure if they have that franchise outside of Mass.

daleja424
11-28-2011, 11:28 AM
I am a celtic fan and quite honestly, I figured the amnesty cause would help out the celtics just as much as any othet team.

However, I am a bigger fan of the sport and the spirit of competition is better because of this.

Yup. HEAT fan here...and this makes perfect sense to me.

This is as it should be. In fact...this is how waivers should always work IMO.

daleja424
11-28-2011, 11:29 AM
1) regular waivers for 24 hours
2) if no one claims via regular waivers, you do this secondary waiver process

I like it a lot. Very fair system.

ChiSoxJuan
11-28-2011, 11:56 AM
That's even better. Only teams with sufficient cap space will be able to put in a claim under the normal waiver process but they're on the hook for the entire contract. No team is likely to do that, so trades are much more likely here. Consider a case where both Ind & Cha want the player. Cha is further up in the q, but neither team wants to pay full price so in the 1st rd they both try to broker a trade with that team. This is Ind's best shot at getting the player over Cha then.

Hawkeye15
11-28-2011, 12:05 PM
I love 5 guys burgers....

Not sure if they have that franchise outside of Mass.

They have it in Houston.

3XDouble
11-28-2011, 12:48 PM
I don't think that the NBA considers these players cut, but they are drawing a salary and are property of the NBA.

Now I suppose if the player wanted to renounce his salary, the NBA MIGHT let that player become a FA. That's my best guess.

That would be an interesting twist but I don't think it's part of the new rules. The player would have the option to become a F/A if they were cut and were willing to conceed their guaranteed contract.

llemon
11-28-2011, 01:09 PM
That would be an interesting twist but I don't think it's part of the new rules. The player would have the option to become a F/A if they were cut and were willing to conceed their guaranteed contract.

Isn't that what I said?

iggypop123
11-28-2011, 01:19 PM
I love 5 guys burgers....

Not sure if they have that franchise outside of Mass.

liked it a bit more than in and out but it sort of negates its advantage by being way more expensive. double combo is about 6 bucks and 5 guys closer to 10 bucks. cajun fries are nice.

BigCityofDreams
11-28-2011, 01:32 PM
That is maybe the most unprofessional thing I've ever heard a pro sports league executive say.

That's what everyone says about big market teams in every sport Forget the fact these teams generate tons of interest and revenue for the leagues they play in. They're bad and evil lol.

GrkGawdofWalkz
11-28-2011, 02:17 PM
Even still, good bye Richard Jefferson.

Anilyzer
11-28-2011, 06:42 PM
First Brandon Roy is a horrible example. His career is were it is due to injury. If Kobe would have sustained a major injury would we call his deal a "crap" deal?

Second the system put a lot of teams in bad situation. Teams like ATL and MEM are forced to pay their star players like super star players in order to keep them. Rudy Gay or Joe Johnson could have bolted for teams like the Bulls, Lakers, Knicks, Heat etc. As a management group how do you convince fans to show up when your best player leaves?

Some of you large market fans need to understand. Sports leagues isn't like most businesses. Unlike other businesses in sports you need your competition without them you have nothing. The more competitive teams in the league the better the product. Who wants to see the Lakers beat up on the bottom feeding T'Wolves every night?

THE MORE GOOD TEAMS IN THE LEAGUE THE BETTER PRODUCT WE SEE ON AVERAGE!

Nobody cares what the name of the front of the jersey says(for the most part). It's the names on the back that sells ticket and/or get ratings. If the talent is dispensed through out the league somewhat evenly that would give us a reason to watch the majority of the league instead of focusing on only the large rev teams.

This is crazy. So, first we're saying that teams like Atlanta HAVE to grossly overpay for marginal talent, because LA and other big teams are more attractive (not in $$ terms,just as teams).

Then we+e saying that now these teams can WAIVE some of those players (that they just had to keep before) and re-sign different players, with all the contracts couting against the league BRI share number, AND saying that the big teams can't have a shot at those players. (And btw, Roy's enoormous extension was signed AFTER it was clear that he had bad knee problems.)

Anyhow, itseeems likethe true nature of the hatas reveals itself now: it's not the "big money" or the "big market", it's that good teams are more preferrable. So the deal is designed to save bad teams from overpaying for bordrline players. Which it won't do by the ay. Thse teams will still cap themselves out re-signing whoever they happen to draft, where's the true mega stars will still fiknd a way to get to the premiere cities and franchises. If those teams want to improve, they should build their tradition and coaching.

Anilyzer
11-28-2011, 06:46 PM
Watch. Just watch what happensnext. Cleveland wil probably cap itself out with new draft picks and mnesty players AND still have the worst record in the league.

And evrybody wats to see great teams go head to head, not just mediocre teams. Teams like he Bobcats were supposed to rise upward, not try to pull the great teams downward.

bholly
11-28-2011, 06:59 PM
Anilyzer,
I'm having a hard time following your opinion through multiple posts. Help me out.
Here's my general opinion of the issues:
1) The amnesty provision is necessary to help teams adjust to the new cap system. I agree with you that teams will abuse it and in some cases it will lead to more money being spent, but you just can't tighten the cap by that much and not have one.
2) Given there needs to be an amnesty, the waiver provision reduces the amount of money that ends up being spent.

Which of these points do you disagree with? Is your objection to the amnesty or the waiver provision? How does the amnesty help the bobcats pull the great teams downwards?

KJ21.the.truth
11-28-2011, 07:08 PM
Too lazy to look and see if this has been asked so here goes.

Hypothetically, if CP3 goes Melo on the hornets andt tries to force his way out wouldnt Orlando be a very highly desirable trading partner for this type of move? The Hornets move paul for a package around Nelson and Arenas/Turkoglu + picks and then turn around and amnesty the bad contract they get from us, wiping their books nearly clean. Does this make as much sense to anyone else or am I way off base?

da ThRONe
11-28-2011, 07:17 PM
Too lazy to look and see if this has been asked so here goes.

Hypothetically, if CP3 goes Melo on the hornets andt tries to force his way out wouldnt Orlando be a very highly desirable trading partner for this type of move? The Hornets move paul for a package around Nelson and Arenas/Turkoglu + picks and then turn around and amnesty the bad contract they get from us, wiping their books nearly clean. Does this make as much sense to anyone else or am I way off base?

Not as much sense as it would make for the Hornets to trade for Howard. And build around them two ourselves.

Why trade then amnesty/stretch two player when salary cap isn't an issue with usncgh.u talent is. If were moving Paul its for talent. Besides would the new owner would want to come right in playing Turk and Gil ov.er 60 million for nothing.

Trust we can do much better than amnesty player and Nelson(and I hold Jameer in high regards ).

KJ21.the.truth
11-28-2011, 07:21 PM
Not as much sense as it would make for the Hornets to trade for Howard. And build around them two ourselves.

Why trade then amnesty/stretch two player when salary cap isn't an issue with usncgh.u talent is. If were moving Paul its for talent. Besides would the new owner would want to come right in playing Turk and Gil ov.er 60 million for nothing.

... I dont think u get the question... Im not saying they want to trade cp3 but hypothetically it would make sense if he was leaving anyways, same with Dwight. If orlando got a team to take dwight and arenas and got back another horrendous contract, IE Rashard Lewis, they could amnesty that and have almost all of the salary cap to work with...

KJ21.the.truth
11-28-2011, 07:22 PM
im not asking about making a strategic team building move as much as I am asking about a cap clearing move to plan for the future FA markets and draft picks.

bholly
11-28-2011, 07:36 PM
Too lazy to look and see if this has been asked so here goes.

Hypothetically, if CP3 goes Melo on the hornets andt tries to force his way out wouldnt Orlando be a very highly desirable trading partner for this type of move? The Hornets move paul for a package around Nelson and Arenas/Turkoglu + picks and then turn around and amnesty the bad contract they get from us, wiping their books nearly clean. Does this make as much sense to anyone else or am I way off base?

So they're trading CP3 and using their amnesty to get a 29 year old PG and some really low picks in return? This sounds amazing for Orlando, but makes no sense at all for the Hornets.
For example, if they wanted to re-tool like that, why not just send him and Okafor to LAC for the Minny pick, Mo Williams, and Kaman's expiring. They get a great pick and save even more cap room and LA would absolutely do it.

In short, you're way off base. CP3 is going to get a much bigger return than anything Orlando can offer.

KJ21.the.truth
11-28-2011, 07:43 PM
your not getting the question.... UGHHH

take team and player out im asking about the scenario my god u guys are narrow minded.

NO takes arenas and amnesty cuts him to clear space after moving paul and okafor contracts and clear their books.

Same can be said for orlando. they trade howard and arenas away and return a bad contract to erase then start from scratch im obviously asking about a scenario not an individual trade read the post.

KJ21.the.truth
11-28-2011, 07:44 PM
plus they use their amnesty on gil not to get him.... my god.

superwill
11-28-2011, 07:47 PM
I have a question about the luxury tax teams like the Lakers,Knicks,Boston,and Miami are all over the cap anyway what's to stop them from gettig who ever they wanted I don't think it would hurt the lakers if they were 50 million over the cap they are all ready 33million over.....................some please explain the luxury tax system to me

llemon
11-28-2011, 07:48 PM
I read in a few articles that the teams that want to acquire amnestied players will do so via 'silent bids'.

Sounds interesting, no?

TRF929
11-28-2011, 07:51 PM
Ok, well some of you got it wrong. Say a team uses the amnesty, Arenas for example: teams will put in their bid, for how much they would like to pay him for the duration of his contract. The winning bidder, say the Clippers, with a 10 mil bid, that means they pay 10 mil off his current contract and his older team pays the rest. So theres no extra money going around, no over spending, its the same amount of money, but now coming from 2 teams.

KJ21.the.truth
11-28-2011, 07:54 PM
Ok, well some of you got it wrong. Say a team uses the amnesty, Arenas for example: teams will put in their bid, for how much they would like to pay him for the duration of his contract. The winning bidder, say the Clippers, with a 10 mil bid, that means they pay 10 mil off his current contract and his older team pays the rest. So theres no extra money going around, no over spending, its the same amount of money, but now coming from 2 teams.

this i get, but couldnt you trade for a player just to amnesty cut him? just as if you would an expiring???

CeeDub15
11-28-2011, 07:57 PM
looks like this is already going into effect. rumor is roy is going to get amnestied according to espn the twolves already are interested in him.

Could i get a link if at all possible?

da ThRONe
11-28-2011, 08:00 PM
... I dont think u get the question... Im not saying they want to trade cp3 but hypothetically it would make sense if he was leaving anyways, same with Dwight. If orlando got a team to take dwight and arenas and got back another horrendous contract, IE Rashard Lewis, they could amnesty that and have almost all of the salary cap to work with...

We are more likely to try and acquire guys like Bass or Orton. If Paul decide he had to play together with Dwight and it had to be in Orlando then we would kind of have no choice.

KJ21.the.truth
11-28-2011, 08:03 PM
We are more likely to try and acquire guys like Bass or Orton. If Paul decide he had to play together with Dwight and it had to be in Orlando then we would kind of have no choice.

the point isnt who u would want its just a matter of me asking if teams would be inclined to trade for players to clear their books... :facepalm:

Kevj77
11-28-2011, 08:06 PM
I read in a few articles that the teams that want to acquire amnestied players will do so via 'silent bids'.

Sounds interesting, no?Thank you. I asked how the bid would work a few pages back. Silent bid seems like the best way.

bholly
11-28-2011, 08:08 PM
your not getting the question.... UGHHH

take team and player out im asking about the scenario my god u guys are narrow minded.

NO takes arenas and amnesty cuts him to clear space after moving paul and okafor contracts and clear their books.

Same can be said for orlando. they trade howard and arenas away and return a bad contract to erase then start from scratch im obviously asking about a scenario not an individual trade read the post.

Lol, it isn't that people are narrow minded, it's that your question was totally unclear. The original question certainly doesn't read like what you're saying it was meant to. Next time try an example that actually makes sense and realistically asks your question, not something that is just going to look like every other pipe-dream CP3 or Howard trade that gets asked 10 times a day.

The answer depends on whether or not you can use the amnesty on guys you've just traded for, which I don't think we're certain you can do yet.
If you can, it's really unlikely that it would end up being the best deal available, and you'd have to be sending more than one bad contract away. In your example, if it's Dwight and Arenas for Rashard and then amnestying Rashard, how is that better than just letting Dwight walk (or trading him to someone with cap space) and amnestying Arenas? There'd only be an incentive to do this if you were packaging a bunch of bad contracts - Arenas, Turk, Dwight for Rashard. Given that, it seems unlikely that there are going to be deals where this works - there just aren't any guys like Rashard who you'd want to amnesty but who earn enough to make the salaries work in a trade for a good player and at least two bad contracts.

In short, if it's allowed, then theoretically there might be situations in which you could package a good player and a few bad contracts for a worse contract and amnesty the worse one. Realistically, I can't think of any examples where it would make any sense at all.

TRF929
11-28-2011, 08:11 PM
this i get, but couldnt you trade for a player just to amnesty cut him? just as if you would an expiring???

I'm sure you can but why would a team trade for a player with the intent of using their 1 amnesty on them, Makes no sense

KJ21.the.truth
11-28-2011, 08:13 PM
Lol, it isn't that people are narrow minded, it's that your question was totally unclear. The original question certainly doesn't read like what you're saying it was meant to. Next time try an example that actually makes sense and realistically asks your question, not something that is just going to look like every other pipe-dream CP3 or Howard trade that gets asked 10 times a day.

The answer depends on whether or not you can use the amnesty on guys you've just traded for, which I don't think we're certain you can do yet.
If you can, it's really unlikely that it would end up being the best deal available, and you'd have to be sending more than one bad contract away. In your example, if it's Dwight and Arenas for Rashard and then amnestying Rashard, how is that better than just letting Dwight walk (or trading him to someone with cap space) and amnestying Arenas? There'd only be an incentive to do this if you were packaging a bunch of bad contracts - Arenas, Turk, Dwight for Rashard. Given that, it seems unlikely that there are going to be deals where this works - there just aren't any guys like Rashard who you'd want to amnesty but who earn enough to make the salaries work in a trade for a good player and at least two bad contracts.

In short, if it's allowed, then theoretically there might be situations in which you could package a good player and a few bad contracts for a worse contract and amnesty the worse one. Realistically, I can't think of any examples where it would make any sense at all.

this answers my question as i stated a million (3) times the example is utterly irrelevant i even used a second one to prove it.

Also if u moved dwight arenas and amnesty rashard ur books are clear outside of JJ and hedo contracts... IJS

KJ21.the.truth
11-28-2011, 08:15 PM
i figured it would look like a pipe dream type of scenario but it is certainly one scenario that could happen and help NO if paul goes melo on them. they bring back a suitable PG in nelson, maybe even a bass or anderson and have a lot of cap space for future signings, it doesnt mean its an obvious DO THIS, but it makes it that much more desirable. can we agree there? :cheers:

bholly
11-28-2011, 08:29 PM
I have a question about the luxury tax teams like the Lakers,Knicks,Boston,and Miami are all over the cap anyway what's to stop them from gettig who ever they wanted I don't think it would hurt the lakers if they were 50 million over the cap they are all ready 33million over.....................some please explain the luxury tax system to me

They can't get whoever they wanted because you can't just sign people when you're over the cap - that's the point of the cap. The cap rules literally prevent you from signing whoever you want. You have to have exceptions (like the MLE) to increase your salary once you're over the cap.

The point of the luxury tax system is so that even when teams are allowed to go over the cap (ie even when they have an exception) it becomes so expensive that they wouldn't want to. Under the previous system the tax was 100% - so if you're in the luxury tax and have a $5m exception, and sign a guy to a $5m contract, you have to pay $5m to the player but also a $5m tax to the league, so the guy costs you $10m all up.
Under the new system, the tax will be even higher. You pay 150% for your first $5m over, 175% for your next $5m over, 250% for the next $5m, 325% for the next $5m, and increasing by 50% for every $5m after that.
So now, if you're right at the tax level and sign a guy to a $5m contract you pay him $5m and pay $7.5m in tax - so he costs you $12.5m all up. If you're already $15m over the luxury tax level, and so you're at the 325% rate, then signing a guy for $5m means you have to pay $16.25m in tax - so all up you're paying $21.25m for a $5m player.

Eventually, as the cost increases, it just becomes prohibitively expensive to go further above the cap.
The difference for the Lakers in being 50m over instead of 33m over is that if the tax level is $13m over the cap level (which it was last year), then $33m over the cap means they would pay $45m in tax. $50m over the cap means they pay $124.25m in tax. Even the Lakers can't afford to spend $74.25m more to get players worth $17m.

And on top of that, the new tax rates increase by 100% at every bracket if you've been in the tax for 4 of the past 5 years. If the Lakers are regularly over the tax level (which they'd have to be to get to $50m over the cap) then that $50m above the cap costs them $50m in salary and $174.25 in tax.

So the cap prevents them from going over whenever they want to. The luxury tax makes it expensive enough that even when they can they'll think twice about it.

Hawkeye15
11-28-2011, 08:37 PM
your not getting the question.... UGHHH

take team and player out im asking about the scenario my god u guys are narrow minded.

NO takes arenas and amnesty cuts him to clear space after moving paul and okafor contracts and clear their books.

Same can be said for orlando. they trade howard and arenas away and return a bad contract to erase then start from scratch im obviously asking about a scenario not an individual trade read the post.

You can only amnesty cut someone CURRENTLY on the roster.

bholly
11-28-2011, 08:41 PM
this answers my question as i stated a million (3) times the example is utterly irrelevant i even used a second one to prove it.

Okay, but your original question (that I was replying to) wasn't 'is this type of trade a possibility' it was 'wouldnt Orlando be a very highly desirable trading partner for this type of move?' so you can't really get upset at people for thinking you were asking about that particular example (because you clearly were, whether you meant to or not).
To add to the confusion, that isn't even an example of the way we ended up deciding it would work - to be even remotely plausible the Hornets would have to be sending out multiple bad contracts, and getting one big one in return, which isn't what that example has at all.


i figured it would look like a pipe dream type of scenario but it is certainly one scenario that could happen and help NO if paul goes melo on them. they bring back a suitable PG in nelson, maybe even a bass or anderson and have a lot of cap space for future signings, it doesnt mean its an obvious DO THIS, but it makes it that much more desirable. can we agree there? :cheers:

And now we're back to that example. The answer is no. Like 0% chance. As I said before, there are other options for the Hornets that would be better for them in every single way than this deal. The LAC one, for example, saves their amnesty, gets them better picks, and gives them more cap space.

The idea of packaging multiple bad contracts with a good one, getting a bad contract in return, and amnestying it, is probably possible but extremely unlikely. Even if it happens, there's no way it's in a deal that sends CP3 to Orlando.

bholly
11-28-2011, 08:44 PM
You can only amnesty cut someone CURRENTLY on the roster.

Yeah, I tried to make it clear in my first comment that this all only works if you can amnesty new guys.

Is this rule confirmed anywhere? I haven't seen any official language around it, so I've been waiting till everything is finalized. Seems weird that it would be for guys currently on the roster if you're allowed to use it at any point in the CBA.