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View Full Version : Redraft playoffs (NYK forum) 2) Rochester vs 6) Long Island



NYKalltheway
11-25-2011, 08:58 AM
Hello Everyone,

Welcome to the playoff voting for the PSD Knicks Forum NBA Redraft. You will notice that all teams are representing the state of New York and that they are fictional.
Please take the time to review both teams, look at the depth chart and read the write ups to formalize your own opinion on which team would win a 7 game series.
Thank you for voting and enjoy the match ups.

Clubhouses link (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=662405)

Rochester has home court advantage

Rochester:


Depth Chart:
PG: Derrick Rose - Mo Williams
SG: James Harden - Courtney Lee - Trevor Ariza
SF: Shawn Marion - Danilo Gallinari - Trevor Ariza
PF: Pau Gasol - Chuck Hayes - Amir Johnson
C: Roy Hibbert - Samuel Dalembert

Overall: We believe that Long Island has put together a stellar team, a team that has already put together one upset. However, we feel that this run will stop in Rochester.


Offensive Strategy: The offense on my squad is like no other in this re-draft, because it features 2 top 12 players with Derrick Rose and Pau Gasol. The 2 of these work perfectly together, with Gasol beautifully complimenting Rose and Rose now having the wing-mate he needs to take his game to the ultimate level of a championship. With the bigs that Long Island possess, it is going to be near impossible for them to stop Gasol. Put scola or Bargnani on Gasol and he could put up at least 30ppg because of that duos dreadful defense. Put Dwight on Gasol and open up a whole new can of worms: if dwight is put on Gasol, that would be the worst coaching decision they could make because that would then open up the lane for a driving Rose, Marion, Harden, and a posting up Hibbert. Now, our offense isnt only 2 superstars, it also features James Harden. Harden has thrived in a 3rd option role in OKC, and with him now receiving starting minutes should provide an even bigger spark. Harden also is a great ball handler, and with his matchup being Nick Young who is an abysmal defender, do not be surprised to see Harden bring up the ball every once in a while to spark a change of pace. My offense also includes Roy Hibbert who while not the best offensive talent, has an array of post moves that could cause trouble for Dwight as far as fouling out. My SF's bring a unique aspect to this game as well, because of how different the 2 are. Marion hits the open jumper now more often than not, and also drives to the lane quite a bit which could be quite helpful if/when Gasol sees a double team. My 6th man Gallo will provide the biggest spark off the bench in this series because of his 3pt shooting ability, and when Rose is driving to the lane like he always does, he will find Gallo for the open jumper.


Defensive Strategy: This offense runs through Rondo first and foremost, and my amazing PG Derrick Rose should give him enough fits to get him out of his rhythym. Gay and Dwight are there biggest offensive weapons, and luckily for me I have my 2 best defenders at these positions in Hibbert and Marion. Marion especially should be able to wear down Gay, and force him to pass it to an open Rondo (who cannot shoot) or a chucking Nick Young. Scola and bargs are an interesting duo at PF, but I have faith in my other superstar Gasol being able to make the necessary stops.

Bench Play: This is another huge advantage I feel I have. All of my bench players were starters this year, and good ones at that with them all providing something different. Mo will bring a 3pt shooting aspect to the game and allow Harden to run the offense while Rose is out. Lee and Ariza both bring an elite defense to help shut down Gay and Young. Hayes brings a great offensive and defensive presence, as well as the versatility of playing reserve minutes at PF and C. Amir brings a great rebounding spark off the bench, and Samuel brings a great defensive presence who, coupled with Hibbert, should be able to slow down Dwight as much as I need to win this series.


Long Island:




Rajon Rondo/George Hill/Jordie Meeks
Nick Young/Caron Butler/George Hill
Rudy Gay/Caron Butler/Andrea Bargnani (or Nick Young)
Luis Scola/Andrea Bargnani/Chris Anderson/Aaron Gray
Dwight Howard/Chris Anderson/Andrea Bargnani/Pops Mensu-Bonsu

I would first like to congratulate Rochester for building a very solid team, one that is quite competitive. I do, however, think mine is better and would win this matchup and Iíll lay out why. I donít believe in doing the position by position thing but instead Iíll talk about frontcourts and backcourts and how these teams would play against each other.

Backcourts: Derrick Rose is clearly one of the best 10 players in basketball and is a really good asset for Rochester. He definitely can get his points. However, we do feel that we send one of basketballís best point guards to match up against Rose in Rajon Rondo. Rondo is a top notch defensive player and has the athletic ability to handle Rose fairly well. With Dwight able to dominate the paint it also gives Rondo tremendous opportunity to get steals and play aggressive enough on Rose. Rose isnít a fantastic shooter and that will help Rondo in his assignment. He also is one of the best distributers in all of professional basketball and is capable of leading the NBA in assists in any given season. We have given Rondo an amazing amount of weapons which he will utilize to create many easy baskets. We have many great scorers whether it be Howard, Gay, Scola, Young, Bargnani or others and feel that for this reason we donít need a scoring dominant PG but more of the unique point guard that is Rajon Rondo. Rondo will also be extremely great at snaring long rebounds and the combination of having the best rebounding point guard and the best rebounding center in basketball alongside some other solid rebounders like Scola, Gay, Butler etc will make us the dominant rebounding team in this series. Rondo has averaged a near triple double and has outplayed Derrick Rose in head to head playoff games between their two teams. In head to head playoff games Rondo has had (19.4/9.3/11.6 compared to Roseís 19.6/6.3/6.7). We feel that unlike Rochester we have the perfect matchup for their best player. Off the bench we have a great defender and shooter in George Hill who compliments Rondo well (They may occasionally play together) and will make sure that Rose is challenged at all times. Mo Williams is a good shooter and a very good backup for Rochester but his minutes will be minimal and any time heís in the game Rose isnít. In the two guard spot, there is Harden vs Young in the starting lineup. While one might think this is an advantage to Harden, Harden solid but not great shooting (30% in the playoffs, 35% in the season from 3) is a detriment when constrated to Rose. Nick Young is a much better shooter(nearly 39% from 3) and with Howard in the post and Gay on his wingside and Rondo distributing he should get plenty of open shots. He wonít need to take so many shots like he did in Washington. Neither are great defenders and both should get a decent amount (10-17 points) a game in this series. Off the bench we have Caron Butler who is a much better defender than Young and will be a valuable 6th man for our team playing both the 2 and the 3 and will likely be in any crunch time offense. Courtney Lee on the other hand is definitely nothing special.

Frontcourts:
This is definitely where the series is decided in my opinion with our team dominating a much weaker Rochester frontcourt. The combination of Dwight Howard, Luis Scola and Rudy Gay is simply terrifying especially considering Rondo will be distributing. All three of these made an extremely high percentage of their shots (59+%,50+%, 47+%) and had the following point guards Jameer Nelson, Kyle Lowry and Mike Conley Jr., none of whom are terrible but in terms of playmaking are no where in Rondoís league. All of my big 3 score in ways that compliment each other (Scola with his vast depth of moves, Gay with his shot and driving ability, Howard with his low post moves and pure power). Meanwhile Rochester is matching up with Marion, Pau and Hibbert. This is just a massive difference in terms of talent and ability on both sides of the floor. We should kill them in the glass and in the post. If that isnít enough we can bring in Andrea Bargnani to further space the floor for Dwight if we need too. When he replaces Scola, he can be a dynamic scorer from all spaces and with less focus on him should improve his percentages. His lack of rebounding and defense is easily covered up by Howard.

We built the perfect team around Howard, filled with a good defensive and playmaking point guard, efficient scorers who can space the floor and a team that can both run and play in a half court setting. We should

mdm692
11-25-2011, 09:14 AM
Id hate to go against dwight but harden and rose are the perfect backcourt. Rose can be himself and harden can control the flow of the game even at his young age harden is one of the best at understanding angles and the flow of the game. Not to mention both marion and harden play excellent defense. Gallinari coming off the bench is 20-30 points off the bench night in night out. Gasol and scola are similar but gasol is the better of the 2. Dwight is the only clear option.

KnicksorBust
11-25-2011, 10:18 AM
Long Island built a very potent offensive team but defensively they leave a lot to be desired through the 2-4 spots. Rochester brought up some great points about how Pau would dominate against Scola/Bargs combo and you could make an argument that they have better players at four starting positions and off the bench. What clinched this matchup for me is that Rochester can throw Hibbert-Hayes-Dalembert-Amir Johnson all at Howard. Hibbert has great size, Hayes is one of the smartest defenders in the NBA, Dalembert/Amir are good shotblockers, and together they have over 20 fouls to use on the big man.

Sportfan
11-25-2011, 10:26 AM
Id hate to go against dwight but harden and rose are the perfect backcourt. Rose can be himself and harden can control the flow of the game even at his young age harden is one of the best at understanding angles and the flow of the game. Not to mention both marion and harden play excellent defense. Gallinari coming off the bench is 20-30 points off the bench night in night out. Gasol and scola are similar but gasol is the better of the 2. Dwight is the only clear option.
I LOVE Harden, but neither him nor Marion are excellent defenders.



Dwight/Scola/Bargs is a dirty frontcourt. No way Hibbert/Gasol are defending that, and Rondo's holding his own on Rose. Harden is the best player in this matchup by default :drool: but LI's mix of shooting/slashing/posting with great D gives them the win

jrice9
11-25-2011, 10:33 AM
The one factor I think people are ignoring is that Rondo on Rose is quite the defensive matchup on him also. People talk Marion on Gay and Hibbert on Howard (Howard can't be stopped by single team at all anyway) but Rondo is likely the best defensive point guard in the league or one of them and one of the guys who handles Rose.

Also, my rebounding is so much better than them except when Bargnani is in the game and then I still think we're better at it even then.

Doubling Howard means either wide open shots or drives and my guys have perfect skills capitalize.

knicks=love
11-25-2011, 02:53 PM
very close here, but i give rochester the edge by a little. have them in a close 7 games.

stuffo
11-25-2011, 03:17 PM
The one factor I think people are ignoring is that Rondo on Rose is quite the defensive matchup on him also. People talk Marion on Gay and Hibbert on Howard (Howard can't be stopped by single team at all anyway) but Rondo is likely the best defensive point guard in the league or one of them and one of the guys who handles Rose.

Also, my rebounding is so much better than them except when Bargnani is in the game and then I still think we're better at it even then.

Doubling Howard means either wide open shots or drives and my guys have perfect skills capitalize.

Hmm, Rose vs Rondo head to head last season.

First game

Rose 18pts on 8 for 19 shooting, 9assts, 5boards, 6 turnovers and no steals

Rondo 10pts on 5 for 10 shooting, 11assts, 3 boards, 4 turnovers and 4 steals

Second game

Rose 20 points on 7 for 17 shooting, 8assts, 3 boards, 4 turnovers and no steals

Rondo 12 points on 6 for 11 shooting, 19assts, 6 boards, 3 turnovers and 3 steals

Third game

Rose 36points on 10 for 19 shooting, 2assts, 5 boards, 4 turnovers and 0 steals

Rondo 13 points on 6 for 14 shooting, 8assists, 5 boards, 0 turnovers and 5 steals

4th game

Rose 30points on 9 for 16 shooting, 8assists, 5 boards, 3 turnovers and 2 steals

Rondo 7 points on 3 for 10 shooting, 6assts, 5 boards, 0 turnovers and 1 steal



That was all with KG down low defending and Rose having to take over by himself without a shooting guard that can spread the floor. Rondo cannot guard rose, he is an overrated defender. Rose, with a shooting guard like Harden, runs train on Rondo.

unleashthebeast
11-25-2011, 03:57 PM
Alright let's go fellas, can not wait to get into the nitty-gritty of this matchup. Congrats jrice and may the best man win :D

jrice9
11-25-2011, 04:32 PM
Hmm, Rose vs Rondo head to head last season.

First game

Rose 18pts on 8 for 19 shooting, 9assts, 5boards, 6 turnovers and no steals

Rondo 10pts on 5 for 10 shooting, 11assts, 3 boards, 4 turnovers and 4 steals

Second game

Rose 20 points on 7 for 17 shooting, 8assts, 3 boards, 4 turnovers and no steals

Rondo 12 points on 6 for 11 shooting, 19assts, 6 boards, 3 turnovers and 3 steals

Third game

Rose 36points on 10 for 19 shooting, 2assts, 5 boards, 4 turnovers and 0 steals

Rondo 13 points on 6 for 14 shooting, 8assists, 5 boards, 0 turnovers and 5 steals

4th game

Rose 30points on 9 for 16 shooting, 8assists, 5 boards, 3 turnovers and 2 steals

Rondo 7 points on 3 for 10 shooting, 6assts, 5 boards, 0 turnovers and 1 steal



That was all with KG down low defending and Rose having to take over by himself without a shooting guard that can spread the floor. Rondo cannot guard rose, he is an overrated defender. Rose, with a shooting guard like Harden, runs train on Rondo.
What about the playoffs the year before in the biggest crunch time when Rondo owned Rose.

Also Howard is a much better post prescence than a hobbled KG was.


Rondo has an actual athletic/dominant center which he has never had and my bigs are so much better than Boston's have been in the last two seasons.

NYKalltheway
11-25-2011, 05:30 PM
Let's see if this evolves into a Rose vs Rondo thread :laugh:

Green_Monster
11-25-2011, 06:06 PM
Rondo and Howard would be awesome. Also Rose will have a harder time scoring once Rondo is guarding him. I went with Long Island.

Baller1
11-25-2011, 06:09 PM
Rochester and it's not even close. I'd give Long Island maybe one game.

unleashthebeast
11-26-2011, 12:17 AM
Rondo and Howard would be awesome. Also Rose will have a harder time scoring once Rondo is guarding him. I went with Long Island.

Sure it would be good on the defensive side, but having your 2 best players being so limited on the offensive end should cause for a constant struggle to score the ball, dont you think?

unleashthebeast
11-26-2011, 12:19 AM
What about the playoffs the year before in the biggest crunch time when Rondo owned Rose.

Also Howard is a much better post prescence than a hobbled KG was.


Rondo has an actual athletic/dominant center which he has never had and my bigs are so much better than Boston's have been in the last two seasons.

Rose became a full superstar this year, so talking about anything previous to that is sort of a slap in the face to his MVP season this past year.

And of course Howard is a better defensive presence than KG at this point, but you understand what the guy is saying. Rose owned rondo this year, with the same defensive mold you have, so there is no reason to think that Rose can not do it again with a supporting cast that now features a top 3 big and great scoring wings.

jrice9
11-26-2011, 12:33 AM
Sure it would be good on the defensive side, but having your 2 best players being so limited on the offensive end should cause for a constant struggle to score the ball, dont you think?
Since when is Howard limited on the offense end? He's scores 23+ ppg on 60% shooting... Yes his free throws arent great but hes a great offensive player.

Rondo isnt a big time scorer but is an elite distributer.

Your trying to tell me a Gay/Scola/Howard with Bargnani frontcourt would have trouble scoring lol?

jrice9
11-26-2011, 12:38 AM
Rose became a full superstar this year, so talking about anything previous to that is sort of a slap in the face to his MVP season this past year.

And of course Howard is a better defensive presence than KG at this point, but you understand what the guy is saying. Rose owned rondo this year, with the same defensive mold you have, so there is no reason to think that Rose can not do it again with a supporting cast that now features a top 3 big and great scoring wings.
I dont buy this.

Your basically saying that any Rose effort especially one in the playoffs (and considering he struggled at times again in the playoffs this year against good defensive players) prior to this year doesnt count? That seems a bit fake, as your assuming that Rose is definately at his regular season form.

Also, I'm not entirely sure getting the ball out of Rose's hands and into Harden's (Harden playmakes alot) is good for Rose's game. Harden can space the floor (though hes an average 3 point shooter) but his ball game might hurt a ball dominant PG like Rose also. Obviously, its better than Bogans, Brewer etc though.

Another issue is that Rondo plays Rose well. Rondo scores against Rose better than he does most of the league, collects rebounds and racks up assists at a high level. In that playoff series Rondo was a triple double guy

Speaking of matchups it might be worth noting that Howard simply ***** on Hibbert averaging over 15 rebounds and 22 points against him while getting Hibbert to go 9.5/4.5 with under 46% shooting.

unleashthebeast
11-26-2011, 01:10 AM
I dont buy this.

Your basically saying that any Rose effort especially one in the playoffs (and considering he struggled at times again in the playoffs this year against good defensive players) prior to this year doesnt count? That seems a bit fake, as your assuming that Rose is definately at his regular season form.

Also, I'm not entirely sure getting the ball out of Rose's hands and into Harden's (Harden playmakes alot) is good for Rose's game. Harden can space the floor (though hes an average 3 point shooter) but his ball game might hurt a ball dominant PG like Rose also. Obviously, its better than Bogans, Brewer etc though.

Another issue is that Rondo plays Rose well. Rondo scores against Rose better than he does most of the league, collects rebounds and racks up assists at a high level. In that playoff series Rondo was a triple double guy

Speaking of matchups it might be worth noting that Howard simply ***** on Hibbert averaging over 15 rebounds and 22 points against him while getting Hibbert to go 9.5/4.5 with under 46% shooting.

If you didn't see the progress in Rose's game this year than you do not watch very much basketball. He improved dramatically in all aspects of his game, and that was without a legit second weapon. In this matchup I paired him up with another top 12 player, making it damn near impossible to stop Rose to impose his will on the offensive end.

knicks_champ
11-26-2011, 08:52 PM
Bump

NYKalltheway
11-28-2011, 03:20 PM
still some time left for this matchup and it's quite close ;)

unleashthebeast
11-28-2011, 04:06 PM
:ohno:

jrice9
11-29-2011, 12:40 AM
bump