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Ebbs
11-18-2011, 03:18 PM
NBA All Time Redraft Voting!

The following teams have been assembled and are now playing each other in a fantasy first round match up. For this game please assume that all players are in their primes and playing at the top of their game. Injuries are not a factor for this game as every single player is playing at his best.

Please take the time to read the write ups and put some thought into your vote as many of the GM’s in this spent a lot of time on this game.

No this obviously isn’t real.

If you think it’s stupid go to another thread.

Other than that have fun and argue for whom you believe has the better team.

Visiting Los Angeles Lakers:

PG: Mo Cheeks | Kenny Anderson
SG: Jo Jo White | Walter Davis | Charlie Scott
SF: Rick Barry | Sean Elliott | Wesley Person
PF: Kevin Garnett | Dale Davis
C: Ben Wallace | Kevin Willis

Vs.

Toronto Raptors:
PG: #30 Terry Porter/#1 Rod Strickland
SG: #24 Kobe Bryant/#22 Danny Ainge/#8 Monta Ellis
SF: #42 James Worthy/#9 Andre Iguodala
PF: #32 Amar'e Stoudemire/#53 Darryl Dawkins/#10 Red Kerr
C: #43 Nate Thurmond/#6 Tyson Chandler

Raptors Write Up -


Offense
As you can tell, our offense is predicated on running the offense around the Black Mamba, Kobe Bryant. We feel that we can have great success doing this in this series because there is nobody on the Lakers roster that is capable of even containing Kobe. Kobe would have a MONSTER series against these Lakers scoring, which opens things up for everyone else. We also see big things outta “Big Game” James Worthy in this series as there’s no elite perimeter defender on the Lakers to stop him either. Once Kobe opens things up, James will be able to take advantage of the attention drawn to Kobe and will be able to score in his typically efficient fashion (52%FG, 55%TS, 52.5%eFG). The attention drawn would also open things up for Porter, who is a deadly, and clutch 3pt shooter (career 38% 3pt shooter). As for Amar’e, many may think he’d be in for a tough series with KG guarding him, but not so fast. Amar’e has had big games against KG and has career averages of (21 PPG, 7 RPG, on 53% shooting). We’d also expect for Ben Wallace to guard him for a big chunk of the game as well, which is why we plan on playing more of an up-tempo style, and that brings me to another point, our athleticism. With Terry Porter on the break and ability to create (which is his game), Kobe, Iggy, and Worthy (three elite finishers at the rim, although different styles), and Amar’e, Chandler, and even Thurmond’s freakish big-man athleticism, we’d have a lot of opportunities to run against this team, especially against their mediocre offense. Being able to do this gives Amar’e an easier time to score, instead of slowing the game down and letting Big Ben and KG get set on the defensive end. Also, utilizing Kobe or Porter in pick n roll situations with Amar’e would help him out as well, as they’re both good playmakers as well as scoring threats. While we realize that Thurmond isn’t the most efficient big man when it comes to scoring, he’s still capable of putting the ball in the basket as he’s averaged 20+ ppg for many seasons. Our bench has a lot of versatility as well, with the NBA’s best defender today, Andre Iguodala leading the way. His play-making from the SF spot gives our offense another dimension and makes us even harder to stop. Rod Strickland brings great playmaking to the table as well from the PG spot, and we can see him distributing a lot on the fast break, and in the pick n roll for Amar’e, Chandler, and Thurmond. Coming off the bench is also 2x NBA champion Danny Ainge, who’s great 3 pt shooting (37% career) and tenacious/in your face style of play would fit great with our team, and make it even more difficult for the Lakers. With the amount of great scorers, playmakers, and shooters on this team, it will be a nightmare to guard.

Defense
Defensively, we are solid all around. At center, we have one of the greatest defensive anchors, defenders, and rebounders of all time in Nate Thurmond, who’s had great success in guarding the best centers of all time, including Kareem Abdul Jabbar. In this series, he will be used to guard Kevin Garnett. In doing this, we put an elite defender on KG to contain his offense, and put Amar’e on Ben Wallace, who’s virtually ZERO threat to score. And coming off the bench to replace Thurmond, we have one of the best defenders in the NBA today, NBA champion Tyson Chandler, who will get his chances at guarding KG. This also saves Amare’s energy for the offensive end, allowing him to play more minutes. In the backcourt, we also have Kobe Bryant (9x 1st all-defense, 2x 2nd all-defense) to help contain Rick Barry. We also have Worthy, and Iguodala (who I mentioned before is the best defender in the league today) to help contain Barry. There is no shortage of solid perimeter defenders and great athletes on this Raptors team, and we feel that these 3 guys can do a great job of limiting Barry’s scoring, as well as Jojo White (containing Jojo isn’t a huge worry for us though, as he is very inefficient, below average 14.2 PER, 48TS%, and 44eFG%). The Lakers’ starting lineup doesn’t have much scoring threats at all, with Barry and KG being the only ones we are pretty concerned about, and that makes it much easier for us to guard them with our elite defenders, then run out on the break if necessary, using our top notch athleticism. Rebounding wise, if you’d think we’d be in for a problem because of Amare, not to worry, Nate Thurmond is 5th all time in rebounds per game (15.0), and 8th all time in total rebounds). Amare’s also a capable enough rebounder (9 per game in his career) to hold his own on the block.

Overall
Overall, we feel like our team is a matchup nightmare against the Lakers, because we have the defenders to contain all of their offensive threats, and they don’t have enough great perimeter defenders to contain our deadly wing duo of Kobe and Worthy. We feel like our team is a perfectly built team, with a great big 3, an all-time great defender anchoring the defense, a clutch 3pt shooter and playmaker at the point guard spot, and a great, versatile bench backing them as well as great defenders all around. Lead by Kobe Bryant, who’s a top 10 player of all time, as well as other championship winners in Worthy, Ainge, and Kerr, Chandler we feel like this Raptors team has all the necessary championship experience, a good balanced combination of role players and the poise and experience to make some serious noise in this redraft.

Lakers Write Up -


8 Reasons why the Lakers Beat the Raptors:

1) Defense. I am confident in say thing this Lakers team is one of the best defensive teams in the all-time redraft. Consider the talent level defensively this Lakers team offers. Mo Cheeks (4 NBA All First Teams), Kevin Garnett (9× NBA All-Defensive First Team & 1 DPOY) & Ben Wallace (5× NBA All-Defensive First Team & 4 Time DPOY). 3 Starters that were among the best all time defensively at their respective positions. For my team it all starts down low and works its way out from there. No matter if you like him or hate him, KG was simply a defensive force throughout the prime of his career. Garnett could guard the athletic and the stronger PF’s of the league and could always be counted on to shut down his defender. Ben Wallace is in the same discussion as KG when it comes to elite defensive players. Despite his size, Wallace was capable of guarding any center the league had to offer. He went up against the likes of Shaq & Duncan and never backed down. Having 3 elite defensive players in my lineup allows my team to make the necessary rotations and provides steady support to Jo Jo White and Sean Elliot’s task of guarding Kobe Bryant.

2) Raptors have too many guys that need the ball to be effective. Kobe Bryant is obviously the guy for the Raptors and he will be the one with the ball most often in his hands. Consider the whole team from a usage perspective. Porters’ usage % at the peak of his career was 21.7. Kobe Bryant 38.7. James Worthy 26.2 and Amare Stoudemire 30.9. Thurmond has no data for this stat due to the time period he played in. This has to be a concern for the Raptors. I just don’t see this gelling together with so many players that need the ball in their hand to be effective. Throughout the majority of Amare’s career he has had Steve Nash to lean on and give him the ball and that is no longer the case. When Amare was most effective was when he was the first option on offense. We all recognize that just by looking at his PER & efficency ratings from his time playing with Nash. In terms of the Lakers, running the point is the unselfish point guard Cheeks. Ben Wallace is hardly a guy to complain about not seeing the ball enough and as is Jo Jo White. For many years Havlicek, Cowens and White shared the offensive load for those Celtics teams in the 70’s without issue. In terms of the scoring of this Lakers team, it all starts and ends with Rick Barry and KG. The best part is that the rest of our complimentary players know that. Can Amare, Porter, Thurmond & Worthy share the ball enough on the court to be effective? I don’t think so, not with their past track record.


3) Lakers can go toe to toe with the Raptors offensively. Despite what some of the younger users of PSD may think, Rick Barry is right on the level of Kobe Bryant when it comes to scoring and being a premier number 1 option. Barry in the prime of his career averaged 35 PPG. Nobody could stop him from scoring as evidence by the 4x he scored over 30 PPG. Had there been a 3 Point Line his entire career, he would have been one of the all-time leaders. Barry had the range to step out from anywhere on the court and hit the shot, no matter the defender on him. Barry like Kobe had the rare ability to take over any game and both teams can answer the call when it comes to having a ture number 1 option. KG is another guy that could do it all on offense. He could slide over and be the 2nd option (Celtics years) or be the premier player for his team on any given night. KG could step out and hit the mid-range jumper, post up and take his man off the dribble. The end result here is that the Lakers duo can go up against Kobe Bryant & any 2nd option the Raptors can throw at them.

4) Front Court Advantage: I talked about how strong the Lakers defensive frontcourt was with KG and Big Ben but time to look at it more closely. While Amare Stoduamire is a dynamic scorer, he also happens to be a very sub-par defender. Now the Raptors are going to try and cover this up by putting him next to Thurmond but that is really not going to help. KG is going to have his way with Amare and KG has the defensive ability to shut down Amare. That looks like two wins for the Lakers right there at the power forward position. Looking at the center position, we see two very similar players. Thurmond and Wallace are two of the greatest defensive centers the league has ever seen. Offensively neither player offers much in the way of good production. Thurmond throughout his career was beyond ineffective when it came to be a good offensive player. He shot 42% for his career while Ben Wallace shot 47.5 from the field. Even Wallace has the edge when it comes to TS% and both player had nearly an identical PER for their careers. Yes both players are tremendous defensively but both have their weaknesses on the offensive end. Thurmond really does not worry me in the least in this match up. Due to the large advantage for the Lakers when it comes to KG against Amare, one has to lean with the front court advantage for the Lakers.

5) Rebounding Advantage. Consider this statistic, KG, Ben Wallace, Dale Davis and Kevin Willis all fall within the top 30 all time when it comes to offensive rebounding. If there is one thing my team knows how to do, its play defense and rebound. No matter who we throw out there, we know the rim can be contested for rebounds on the offensive end. This Lakers team will go after those second chance opportunities and will be rewarded with them. The same kind of rebounding ability is there for this team on the defensive end. Kevin Garnett is 5th all-time in defensive rebounds, Willis 16th and Wallace 26th. The Lakers will come out victorious every night against the Raptors in the rebound differential because we have players that will actually go after the ball. Outside of Thurmond and Chandler, the frontcourt of the Raptors is very average when it comes to rebounding. Dawkins and Amare were both offensive minded players first and rebounding always took a back seat to their own selfish play. The Raptors will have limited 2nd chance opportunities and that will hurt them in this matchup greatly due to the rebounding disparity that exists between the two front courts.

6) An answer to Kobe Bryant. Due to the overall defensive ability of this Lakers team, we are able to provide help in stopping Kobe Bryant. If Kobe gets past his man, we have two outstanding help defenders in the paint waiting for him. To go along with this, during Jo Jo’s career he won two NBA titles, one of which he did as the best player as evidence by his Finals MVP. White was a good defender when he played and will be able to stay with Kobe Bryant due to his speed and lateral quickness. Is White going to stop Kobe entirely? No of course not but White will be able to hang with Kobe and make him work for every basket. Kobe will have some difficult getting passed White’s quickness which should allow time for the rest of the defensive to react in a help position when ever needed. I feel good about facing Kobe Bryant due to White’s individual defensive skills but also team’s overall defensive ability.

7) The Bench. The Lakers have built their bench with role players and complimentary players. Our frontcourt offers both offensive and defense in Kevin Willis and Dale Davis. If Wallace goes off, we have Willis we can plug in who has shown to be an effective low post scorer. Dale Davis gives our team another physical defender like KG who can rebound and block shots. Sean Elliot is one of those glue guys every great team needs who has great shooting range and great offensive/defensive instincts and awareness. For our backcourt we made sure that we got a potent scorer in “Sweet D” Walter Davis and a solid PG in Kenny Anderson. Anderson like Elliot has the range to be a deep threat on the court for us. The Raptors on the other hand due not have that same chemistry and complimentary players on their bench. Both Chandler and Dawkins are limited on the offensive end and can’t be counted on to score when Amare or Thurmond comes off the court. I like Ainge as a complimentary piece but not so much Iggy. The one thing I know about this Raptors bench is that there is no player riding the pine that is going to hurt this team from an offensive perspective and that gives me great hope in this match up.

8) Pedigree of Winning. The Lakers entire starting lineup has captured at least one NBA Title. Cheeks, White, Barry, KG and Wallace have all been a part of a championship and know what goes into winning a title. The Raptors starting line up outside of Kobe and Worthy have no rings to their name. Now this may not mean a lot but knowing what it takes to win is a huge advantage in the post season and this Lakers team has that.

knicks=love
11-18-2011, 03:24 PM
defense wins championships, so i got the lakers. both GMs did a hell of a job in this game and congrats to both. good luck through out the playoffs.

Sadds The Gr8
11-18-2011, 03:30 PM
defense wins championships, so i got the lakers. both GMs did a hell of a job in this game and congrats to both. good luck through out the playoffs.

who's stopping Worthy and Kobe?

Mile High Champ
11-18-2011, 03:32 PM
who's stopping Worthy and Kobe?

Who is stopping KG & Barry?

The_Jamal
11-18-2011, 03:36 PM
Tough Tough tough match-up. The Lakers are easily the superior defensive club and the post D of KG and Wallace is straight filthy. But Kobe, Worthy and Amare is a straight deadly offensive trio that any team would have difficulty stopping.

Might have to wait a bit to vote on this one

Lucky.
11-18-2011, 03:38 PM
I do have to say KG would go off on Amar'e, But I think the Raps would win.

NYKalltheway
11-18-2011, 03:40 PM
Lakers match up pretty well here, they got my vote

Mile High Champ
11-18-2011, 03:40 PM
Rick Barry, White and KG can easily match Kobe, Amare & Worthy.

Sadds The Gr8
11-18-2011, 03:43 PM
Who is stopping KG & Barry?

I said it in the defense part of my writeup

Mile High Champ
11-18-2011, 03:46 PM
Nate Thrumond never ever played against an athletic 4 like KG in his career. How is he expected to cover him 20 feet from the basket. All of the sudden you take Thurmond out of the equation down low and your defensive unit is now very below average. Thurmond on KG is a huge advantage for me.

mightybosstone
11-18-2011, 03:47 PM
Defense AND offense wins championships, which is why I picked the Raptors. I trust Kobe and Worthy in the 4th quarter of playoff games more than I trust Barry and KG, and the Raptors have three very strong offensive options while the Lakers have two and a weak third.

Both teams have a matchup problem, but the Raptors have solved there's. If the Raptors had kept Amare on KG, I might have considered the Lakers, but putting an all-time great defensive big like Thurmond on him was a very smart move. On the flip side, White and Barry aren't exactly accomplished defensive players and White is a little undersized to be defending Kobe, whereas Kobe and Worthy would do as good a job as any defensive wing duo in this game.

I think this would be an extremely close series that would go at least six games, and MHC has done an admirable job, but I really don't like this matchup for him.

Sadds The Gr8
11-18-2011, 03:48 PM
Nate Thrumond never ever played against an athletic 4 like KG in his career. How is he expected to cover him 20 feet from the basket. All of the sudden you take Thurmond out of the equation down low and your defensive unit is now very below average. Thurmond on KG is a huge advantage for me.

nobody else is a serious slashing threat on your team, and we have a bunch of above average-elite perimeter defenders to keep your guys in front. And Thurmond is athletic as well for a big...

Sadds The Gr8
11-18-2011, 03:52 PM
I g2g to work. I'll have to save debating for later. hopefully we'll be winning by then. another 1st round exit would frustrate the hell out of me

Mile High Champ
11-18-2011, 03:53 PM
nobody else is a serious slashing threat on your team, and we have a bunch of above average-elite perimeter defenders to keep your guys in front. And Thurmond is athletic as well for a big...

My point is that Thurmond never ever play against a player liek KG in his career. KG is a better player in every single facet of the game other than rebounding. I don't see how you can expect Thurmond to play 15-2- from the basket against KG and still have effective team defense with only Amare protecting the basket. KG would have a field day in this series.

mightybosstone
11-18-2011, 03:53 PM
Nate Thrumond never ever played against an athletic 4 like KG in his career. How is he expected to cover him 20 feet from the basket. All of the sudden you take Thurmond out of the equation down low and your defensive unit is now very below average. Thurmond on KG is a huge advantage for me.

I think this is somewhat of an unfair argument. I doubt very seriously that any of us have watched tape on Thurmond, so it's kind of ridiculous to say what the guy was capable of. Based on his defensive numbers, his five consecutive all-defensive teams and his reputation, he's probably one of the two or three best defensive bigs of his era.

Also, you forget that this guy played in the era of Russell and Wilt. Bill Simmons said in his book that both Wilt and Russell said he was their toughest defender.

mightybosstone
11-18-2011, 03:54 PM
My point is that Thurmond never ever play against a player liek KG in his career. KG is a better player in every single facet of the game other than rebounding. I don't see how you can expect Thurmond to play 15-2- from the basket against KG and still have effective team defense with only Amare protecting the basket. KG would have a field day in this series.

So... essentially you're saying that KG is a better player than Wilt Chamberlain? :eyebrow:

knicks=love
11-18-2011, 03:54 PM
my vote wasn't easy. i read both writeups (the entire thing, yes i know, shocking), but i'm more of a defensive minded guy and i believe the saying "defense wins championships". the raptors have an extremely good team, but i just feel that the lakers match up very well and could "slow" them down a little.

Sadds The Gr8
11-18-2011, 03:56 PM
My point is that Thurmond never ever play against a player liek KG in his career. KG is a better player in every single facet of the game other than rebounding. I don't see how you can expect Thurmond to play 15-2- from the basket against KG and still have effective team defense with only Amare protecting the basket. KG would have a field day in this series.

as would Worthy and Kobe...
and nobody is a slashing threat on your team which is why we chose to do that. It's not like KG will NEVER be in the post. you're acting like KG is playing a Kobe or Lebron role and will just be able to blow by Thurmond...

as for that first point, u can use that logic as well for Jojo White guarding Kobe.

Mile High Champ
11-18-2011, 03:58 PM
I think this is somewhat of an unfair argument. I doubt very seriously that any of us have watched tape on Thurmond, so it's kind of ridiculous to say what the guy was capable of. Based on his defensive numbers, his five consecutive all-defensive teams and his reputation, he's probably one of the two or three best defensive bigs of his era.

Also, you forget that this guy played in the era of Russell and Wilt. Bill Simmons said in his book that both Wilt and Russell said he was their toughest defender.

You yoruself just called out Barry and White for being average defenders. Did you ever watch them play? How can you make that assumption? It goes exactly the same way.

His defensive numbers are inflated due to the era he played in. There is no way Thurmond would get 15 rebounds per game in this series. KG is unlike any player Thurmond ever faced and Thurmond was used to defending the paint, not a defender 15 feet from the basket. My argument is a legitimate one.

Mile High Champ
11-18-2011, 04:00 PM
as would Worthy and Kobe...
and nobody is a slashing threat on your team which is why we chose to do that. It's not like KG will NEVER be in the post. you're acting like KG is playing a Kobe or Lebron role and will just be able to blow by Thurmond...

as for that first point, u can use that logic as well for Jojo White guarding Kobe.

Worthy is a good player to have but come on you are really inflating how good he was. As I said in my write up, your team is full of guys that need the ball to be in their hands if they are to be succesful. That is a serious issue with your roster and Amare, Kobe, Worth & Thurmond would be at each others throats if they did not get their looks.

White saw athletic players in the 70's. There were no big's like KG in Thurmonds era.

Mile High Champ
11-18-2011, 04:03 PM
My concern is that nobody will know who Rick Barry is. One of the most underrated players the league has ever seen.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barryri01.html

Eagles4Lyfe
11-18-2011, 04:10 PM
I can't even believe this argument. Even if his defense is better how the hell can he simply outscore us why is no one taking that into account??? Kobe's just unstoppable on offense, no one can stop him simple as that you can slow him down but even then who the heck on his team can help carry his offense down the stretch and be as good as Kobe is with the ball in his hands?????


Also there would be no fighting between Worthy, Kobe and Amare thats the stupidest cop out I've ever heard in my life.
Did Amare get on Nash's throats or Melo's throat this year???
Was worthy on Magic Johnson's throat???
Kobe and Shaq found ways to co-exist on the offensive end without any chemistry issues.

Not to mention all my guys are big game players and are more than capable of playing fiddles. That's a weak argument and the fact people are falling for that is a joke.

Not to mention Worthy was a finals MVP, Kobe's a 2 time Finals MVP and both have multiple rings so they know what it takes to win. Then you toss in the perfect role player compliments and its not even as close as people think.

knicks=love
11-18-2011, 04:14 PM
I can't even believe this argument. Even if his defense is better how the hell can he simply outscore us why is no one taking that into account??? Kobe's just unstoppable on offense, no one can stop him simple as that you can slow him down but even then who the heck on his team can help carry his offense down the stretch and be as good as Kobe is with the ball in his hands?????


Also there would be no fighting between Worthy, Kobe and Amare thats the stupidest cop out I've ever heard in my life.
Did Amare get on Nash's throats or Melo's throat this year???
Was worthy on Magic Johnson's throat???
Kobe and Shaq found ways to co-exist on the offensive end without any chemistry issues.

Not to mention all my guys are big game players and are more than capable of playing fiddles. That's a weak argument and the fact people are falling for that is a joke.

idk if you heard about it, but amar'e did say he was unhappy he wasn't getting the ball as much when carmelo came to the knicks. i went to the 2nd celtics-knicks game at msg, and totally forgot amar'e was on the team because he never touched the ball. he publicly said he was unhappy with the amount of touches he was getting.

mightybosstone
11-18-2011, 04:14 PM
You yoruself just called out Barry and White for being average defenders. Did you ever watch them play? How can you make that assumption? It goes exactly the same way.
Defensive numbers? Reputation? You're talking about a guy who was a five-time all-defensive player versus two guys who never made any defensive teams, received any defensive acknowledgements and have never been considered for their defensive abilities. All we have to base a lot of these players on are stats, stories and public opinion. Based on that, Thurmond was a very good defender, while White and Barry were average at best.


His defensive numbers are inflated due to the era he played in. There is no way Thurmond would get 15 rebounds per game in this series. KG is unlike any player Thurmond ever faced and Thurmond was used to defending the paint, not a defender 15 feet from the basket. My argument is a legitimate one.
First off... rebounds are not necessarily a defensive statistic and I don't understand why people interpret them that way. Barkley was one of the greatest rebounders all-time (certainly the greatest rebounder under 6'6") and he was a terrible defender. If you're going to use basic stats, I'll take blocks as a defensive barometer over rebounds and Thurmond averaged freakin' 2.9 a game at age 32, the first year the league started counting them as a statistic. And if you use advanced stats, look at DRtg and DWS. Thurmond put up solid career numbers for both.

If I'm the Raptors, I'm fine with leaving KG open 15-20 feet from the basket every once in a while. His mid range game has always been solid, but like any post player, he's more effective in the paint. And it's not as if KG is going to pump fake from 20 feet, draw in Thurmond and then blow by him for a dunk. He's not MJ or Lebron, dude...

ShakeN'Bake
11-18-2011, 04:14 PM
Honestly both teams are great. I am going to need to think about this for a bit.

Eagles4Lyfe
11-18-2011, 04:16 PM
Not to mention he has one guy on Offense who is a total non factor on the offensive end, absolutely a non factor which plays to our advantage of hiding Amare on him and saving Amare for the offensive end and gives us a big to run the floor if need be.

mightybosstone
11-18-2011, 04:21 PM
Worthy is a good player to have but come on you are really inflating how good he was. As I said in my write up, your team is full of guys that need the ball to be in their hands if they are to be succesful. That is a serious issue with your roster and Amare, Kobe, Worth & Thurmond would be at each others throats if they did not get their looks.

I LITERALLY could not disagree with you more on this argument. Kobe? Yes, of course. And the offense would clearly need to run through him. But Worthy played with Magic freakin' Johnson and Amare played with Steve freakin' Nash. How can you HONESTLY make that argument when they played with the two point guards who micromanaged their offenses as much as any players in NBA history? And based on USG%, you could maybe make an argument for Amare, but now Worthy. His 22.9 USG% is 148th all-time.

I can see you making some arguments in your favor, but this is a bad one that makes no sense whatsoever...

Swashcuff
11-18-2011, 04:30 PM
Defense AND offense wins championships, which is why I picked the Raptors. I trust Kobe and Worthy in the 4th quarter of playoff games more than I trust Barry and KG, and the Raptors have three very strong offensive options while the Lakers have two and a weak third.

Both teams have a matchup problem, but the Raptors have solved there's. If the Raptors had kept Amare on KG, I might have considered the Lakers, but putting an all-time great defensive big like Thurmond on him was a very smart move. On the flip side, White and Barry aren't exactly accomplished defensive players and White is a little undersized to be defending Kobe, whereas Kobe and Worthy would do as good a job as any defensive wing duo in this game.

I think this would be an extremely close series that would go at least six games, and MHC has done an admirable job, but I really don't like this matchup for him.

Really nothing left for me to say

This

Mile High Champ
11-18-2011, 04:31 PM
I can't even believe this argument. Even if his defense is better how the hell can he simply outscore us why is no one taking that into account??? Kobe's just unstoppable on offense, no one can stop him simple as that you can slow him down but even then who the heck on his team can help carry his offense down the stretch and be as good as Kobe is with the ball in his hands?????.

My offense can stick with yours and I already explained why. Try reading the write up before you misread the argument completly. Save yourself from some embarrassment.

Do you know anything about Rick Barry? Anything at all? He averaged 35 ppg in his prime. How can he not lead an offense? He actually led his team to a championship. You honestly need to do some reading before you come in and simply run off this garbage.



Also there would be no fighting between Worthy, Kobe and Amare thats the stupidest cop out I've ever heard in my life.
Did Amare get on Nash's throats or Melo's throat this year???
Was worthy on Magic Johnson's throat???
Kobe and Shaq found ways to co-exist on the offensive end without any chemistry issues..

Stupidest cop out of all time? Did you read the write up? Oh of course you didn't. Look at the usage % for your core player, they are all very high. All of your star guys need the ball in their hands to be effective. None of your guys play well off the ball except for maybe Worthy. Amare was frustrated all the time about the lack of touches he would get, he is a very selefish player. Did you not hear him talk about Melo this season?

Magic Johnson was a PG who looked to pass the ball. Worthy got his looks in LA, there is no way he would get his looks with Amare, Thurmond and Kobe in the fold here.

How can you honestly say there was no chemistry issues when Shaq and Kobe played? Did you even watch them? The chemsitry between those two led to Shaw leaving LA.

Not to mention all my guys are big game players and are more than capable of playing fiddles. That's a weak argument and the fact people are falling for that is a joke.


Not to mention Worthy was a finals MVP, Kobe's a 2 time Finals MVP and both have multiple rings so they know what it takes to win. Then you toss in the perfect role player compliments and its not even as close as people think.

Yes what is your point? Those are you only 2 players that won anything in their career. My whole starting lineup won at least one title and like you I have multiple Finals MVP's.

knicks=love
11-18-2011, 04:32 PM
i'm taking bets bets: over/under 5 pages for this match up.

Mile High Champ
11-18-2011, 04:37 PM
I LITERALLY could not disagree with you more on this argument. Kobe? Yes, of course. And the offense would clearly need to run through him. But Worthy played with Magic freakin' Johnson and Amare played with Steve freakin' Nash. How can you HONESTLY make that argument when they played with the two point guards who micromanaged their offenses as much as any players in NBA history? And based on USG%, you could maybe make an argument for Amare, but now Worthy. His 22.9 USG% is 148th all-time.

I can see you making some arguments in your favor, but this is a bad one that makes no sense whatsoever...

Look at Amare's usage when he left Nash and Phoenix. His usage this year was 30.9. In order for him to even get close to his numbers with Nash he had to increase his own usage to make it possible. Amare is a black hole when it comes to offense. He needs the ball to be effective or he needs to be set up for his shot.

There is no possible way Worthy, Kobe, Amare and Thurmond could play together on the same team. Look at their FG attempts per game.

Amare - 14.8
Thurmond - 13.6 ( Almost 20 per game in the prime of his career)
Worthy - 14.3
Kobe - 19.4

That is scary when you look at it. There is no way those 4 guys could co-exists on offense, not with that kind of a demand to get their own shots.

mightybosstone
11-18-2011, 04:37 PM
I will say this much in MHC's favor. He built a great team and I think he's going to lose, but for the wrong reason. He won't lose because of matchup concerns or the actual game, he's going to lose because people will see Kobe and go "ZOMG IT'S KOBE!!!" and see Barry and go "Is he related to Brent Barry or something?" If it were based on the actual matchup, I think this vote would be closer right now.

Mile High Champ
11-18-2011, 04:38 PM
People don't know who Barry is and it is costimg me right now..

Mile High Champ
11-18-2011, 04:40 PM
I will say this much in MHC's favor. He built a great team and I think he's going to lose, but for the wrong reason. He won't lose because of matchup concerns or the actual game, he's going to lose because people will see Kobe and go "ZOMG IT'S KOBE!!!" and see Barry and go "Is he related to Brent Barry or something?" If it were based on the actual matchup, I think this vote would be closer right now.

Knew that was a concern when I drafted Barry but had hoped people would do a little research to know how good he truly was. I can't expect some of the teenagers on this site to do that though I guess.

knicks=love
11-18-2011, 04:40 PM
I will say this much in MHC's favor. He built a great team and I think he's going to lose, but for the wrong reason. He won't lose because of matchup concerns or the actual game, he's going to lose because people will see Kobe and go "ZOMG IT'S KOBE!!!" and see Barry and go "Is he related to Brent Barry or something?" If it were based on the actual matchup, I think this vote would be closer right now.

totally agree with this. it should be a lot closer than what it is right now and i'm convinced that people are voting for the raptors because they see amar'e and kobe together, like they would've seen with me (lebron and dwight)

Catfish1314
11-18-2011, 04:47 PM
My point is that Thurmond never ever play against a player liek KG in his career. KG is a better player in every single facet of the game other than rebounding. I don't see how you can expect Thurmond to play 15-2- from the basket against KG and still have effective team defense with only Amare protecting the basket. KG would have a field day in this series.

I haven't voted yet but why would Thurmond be 15-20 feet away from the basket? Is he defending Garnett? Why would you want Garnett 15-20 feet away from the basket the whole game? That seems like a win for the defense especially with the offensively challenged Ben Wallace inside.

Mile High Champ
11-18-2011, 04:48 PM
I haven't voted yet but why would Thurmond be 15-20 feet away from the basket? Is he defending Garnett? Why would you want Garnett 15-20 feet away from the basket the whole game? That seems like a win for the defense especially with the offensively challenged Ben Wallace inside.

Saddler said Thurmond would guard KG. If KG is using his potent mid range game, he would be pulling Thurmond away from the basket. KG won't be away from the basket the whole game but the fact that he can pull Thurmmond away from the basket is a good situation for my team.

Rivera
11-18-2011, 04:54 PM
raps...

lakers have NO BODY to match up with Kobe and worthy....rick barry was great offensivley but lets be honest barry cant slow down either kobe or worthy and neither can jo jo white...

amare and kg is a solid matchup...the raps trio is just too much for the lakers in my eyes

raps in 5

Eagles4Lyfe
11-18-2011, 04:57 PM
I'm not saying MHC hasn't built a good team I appreciate the hard work he's put in because this thing takes numerous amount of energy and sleepless nights.

But I just think our team has an advantage and even if it's a defensive battle I just can't see how he can put up more points than us..

On a side good luck MHC haven't gotten to tell you yet but sucks we had to face a fellow raps bredjin :props:

Eagles4Lyfe
11-18-2011, 04:58 PM
I will say this much in MHC's favor. He built a great team and I think he's going to lose, but for the wrong reason. He won't lose because of matchup concerns or the actual game, he's going to lose because people will see Kobe and go "ZOMG IT'S KOBE!!!" and see Barry and go "Is he related to Brent Barry or something?" If it were based on the actual matchup, I think this vote would be closer right now.

I thought it would be the other thing, Lakers fans seeing OMGZ its our lakers and doing that but I'm glad people are taking the time to do research and read before voting.

Mile High Champ
11-18-2011, 05:00 PM
raps...

lakers have NO BODY to match up with Kobe and worthy....rick barry was great offensivley but lets be honest barry cant slow down either kobe or worthy and neither can jo jo white...

amare and kg is a solid matchup...the raps trio is just too much for the lakers in my eyes

raps in 5

Please dont pretend like you know who White is and how good or bad he was.

Rivera
11-18-2011, 05:05 PM
Please dont pretend like you know who White is and how good or bad he was.

where did i say jojo white is a horrible player? i never said that...i said jojo white cant guard kobe or worthy which is true kobe will be able to shoot over jojo white all day and if kobe wanted to kobe could post up on jojo white all day...hes only 6'3 190 and hes supposed to be guarding kobe....

thats a HUGE mismatch in favor of the Raps

Ebbs
11-18-2011, 05:19 PM
I haven't voted yet but why would Thurmond be 15-20 feet away from the basket? Is he defending Garnett? Why would you want Garnett 15-20 feet away from the basket the whole game? That seems like a win for the defense especially with the offensively challenged Ben Wallace inside.

I agree 100% with this. Let KG suck Thurmond out. Normally like MHC said it would favor his team to have the best post defender away from the basket but not when the other inside scoring threat is incompetent.

phlp_bj
11-18-2011, 05:59 PM
i'm taking bets bets: over/under 5 pages for this match up.

definitely over

knicks=love
11-18-2011, 07:05 PM
definitely over

i change it to 11 pages :D

jericho
11-18-2011, 07:36 PM
My concern is that nobody will know who Rick Barry is. One of the most underrated players the league has ever seen.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barryri01.html

yeah i know who he is he was 1 of the best ball players in the league but 1 of the worst team mates in that era as well he was always running his mouth saying stupid stuff if you want to talk bout chemistry issues start with your own players first


You yoruself just called out Barry and White for being average defenders. Did you ever watch them play? How can you make that assumption? It goes exactly the same way.

His defensive numbers are inflated due to the era he played in. There is no way Thurmond would get 15 rebounds per game in this series. KG is unlike any player Thurmond ever faced and Thurmond was used to defending the paint, not a defender 15 feet from the basket. My argument is a legitimate one.

n the same argument can be made for rick barry vs worthy/iguadola bball has evolved since it started just like you said some of the better players back then that were all stars might just be role players just look at rick barry shoot realise 1 of the ugliest 1 i have ever seen(still efecetive as hell) wld get blocked like crazy dribbling skills are nothing compared to todays game kobe and iggy wld doing great on d but again thats just basing it on ur comment if you want to put them in todays era the playing field will not be on your side at all


oh and damn how can nobody talked bout monta ellis i know he aint as good as the other players but when it comes to score he is up there with the best of them

jericho
11-18-2011, 08:00 PM
I will say this much in MHC's favor. He built a great team and I think he's going to lose, but for the wrong reason. He won't lose because of matchup concerns or the actual game, he's going to lose because people will see Kobe and go "ZOMG IT'S KOBE!!!" and see Barry and go "Is he related to Brent Barry or something?" If it were based on the actual matchup, I think this vote would be closer right now.

1. thing i hate kobe as hell n im 1 of the kobe trash talkers that doesnt mean i dont respect his game 2. i like the history of the nba n cuz of that i have actually searched and learned bout some of the players that fans now today dont care bout i know that jordan is the best but it aint fair that people get bashed cuz they think that a guy that avg a 3double for a season and nearly did again 2 more times after that cant be called the best there ever was 3. yes rick barry is brent and john barry dad


again rick barry was 1 of the best scorer the league ever had but as you like to point out he had chemistry issues he was a racist he wld have problems in sharing the spot light with kg he moved from a city cuz he didnt want his kids to grow with an accent again he was 1 of the best players the nba ever had but if you want chemistry issues start with rick barry he wld brake your team apart just speaking the truth
now do you want to use the stats or keep on talking bout chemistry

Eagles4Lyfe
11-18-2011, 08:08 PM
Wow I never though I'd become a chris jericho fan lol :hi5:

jericho
11-18-2011, 08:18 PM
Wow I never though I'd become a chris jericho fan lol :hi5:

hey come on he from canada lol

Eagles4Lyfe
11-18-2011, 08:32 PM
hey come on he from canada lol

Oh ya from Calgary or Edmonton right?? Proper are you canadian too??

jericho
11-18-2011, 08:36 PM
nop puertorican lol i bball and wrestling like crazy

Eagles4Lyfe
11-18-2011, 08:39 PM
nop puertorican lol i bball and wrestling like crazy

LOL oh wow lucky guy you guys have some amazing ladies no doubt.

Who's your bball team??

jericho
11-18-2011, 08:45 PM
LOL oh wow lucky guy you guys have some amazing ladies no doubt.

Who's your bball team??

yes we do yes we do :eyebrow: lol and im a knick fan have been since the 90s thats the reason i hate the bulls lakers heat and speacilly the pacers even tho they not good rite now but they getting there again and i dont like it lol

Eagles4Lyfe
11-18-2011, 09:00 PM
yes we do yes we do :eyebrow: lol and im a knick fan have been since the 90s thats the reason i hate the bulls lakers heat and speacilly the pacers even tho they not good rite now but they getting there again and i dont like it lol

Oh wow that's some really hectic ish.. Knicks are becoming relevant themselves so keep your head up atleast your not like me where the only hope my team has of making the playoffs and winning something is in a redraft :laugh:

What are some nice beaches over there I might go there or Cuba next summer so still trying to decide..

jericho
11-18-2011, 09:08 PM
Oh wow that's some really hectic ish.. Knicks are becoming relevant themselves so keep your head up atleast your not like me where the only hope my team has of making the playoffs and winning something is in a redraft :laugh:

What are some nice beaches over there I might go there or Cuba next summer so still trying to decide..

ocean park, luquillo and boqueron of the top of my head if you want to check girls out the best 1 ocean park but puerto rico is way to crazy they killing people like crazy PR girls hot as hell but you can get shot at just 4 doing that lol so i recomend going to cuba lol

i think they gave up they havnt tried to make any more points bout there teams lol

Swashcuff
11-18-2011, 09:15 PM
Look at Amare's usage when he left Nash and Phoenix. His usage this year was 30.9. In order for him to even get close to his numbers with Nash he had to increase his own usage to make it possible. Amare is a black hole when it comes to offense. He needs the ball to be effective or he needs to be set up for his shot.

There is no possible way Worthy, Kobe, Amare and Thurmond could play together on the same team. Look at their FG attempts per game.

Amare - 14.8
Thurmond - 13.6 ( Almost 20 per game in the prime of his career)
Worthy - 14.3
Kobe - 19.4

That is scary when you look at it. There is no way those 4 guys could co-exists on offense, not with that kind of a demand to get their own shots.

Well when you take the pace of the game when Thurmond and Worthy played as well as other factors like Thurmond was often a #1 or #2 option and had no choice but to shoot that much though quite frankly in terms of pure offensive skill and ability he was underwhelming on that end.

Playing alongside a top 3 offensive SG ever in Kobe Bryant, a top 5 offensive PF ever in Amar'e Stoudemire and one of the greatest complementary stars in the history of the game automatically means that Thurmond would be relied upon less on offense and could pay more attention on the defensive end on securing the paint and laying the smacketh down on anyone who dares cross his path.

I honestly see no issue with their players sharing shots since I think when simple context is placed it becomes a none issue.

Eagles4Lyfe
11-18-2011, 09:23 PM
ocean park, luquillo and boqueron of the top of my head if you want to check girls out the best 1 ocean park but puerto rico is way to crazy they killing people like crazy PR girls hot as hell but you can get shot at just 4 doing that lol so i recomend going to cuba lol

i think they gave up they havnt tried to make any more points bout there teams lol

Oh he's offline believe me he'll be back either later or tommorrow for sure. I'm just in here as much as I can defending while I can cause I won't be on tommorrow at all. Hopefully he forgets and won't come back lol but 2 days scarey stuff man.
That's actually sick though how you've seen all these guys play it's better hearing from people who have because I'm not going to BS and say I've seen some guys play their whole careers.
Also ya I heard the same thing about PR but Cuba isn't any different lol..

Eagles4Lyfe
11-18-2011, 09:26 PM
Well when you take the pace of the game when Thurmond and Worthy played as well as other factors like Thurmond was often a #1 or #2 option and had no choice but to shoot that much though quite frankly in terms of pure offensive skill and ability he was underwhelming on that end.

Playing alongside a top 3 offensive SG ever in Kobe Bryant, a top 5 offensive PF ever in Amar'e Stoudemire and one of the greatest complementary stars in the history of the game automatically means that Thurmond would be relied upon less on offense and could pay more attention on the defensive end on securing the paint and laying the smacketh down on anyone who dares cross his path.

I honestly see no issue with their players sharing shots since I think when simple context is placed it becomes a none issue.

Which is why some advanced stats can be flawed and lead people to believe things that aren't necessarily true. Truth be told when it comes time to winning a championship any guy would easily put his ego aside and sacrifice and play a perfect role to helping that team.

Which is why we've put together a team of unselfish guys who can do just that. That usage thing in an all time redraft like thsi can seriously apply to every team because every teams stacked with talent so you have to use your best judgement.

We didn't know how people would react to seeing Thurmond on KG but I'm glad people are understanding it properly and see how it works out in our favor.

jericho
11-18-2011, 09:28 PM
Well when you take the pace of the game when Thurmond and Worthy played as well as other factors like Thurmond was often a #1 or #2 option and had no choice but to shoot that much though quite frankly in terms of pure offensive skill and ability he was underwhelming on that end.

Playing alongside a top 3 offensive SG ever in Kobe Bryant, a top 5 offensive PF ever in Amar'e Stoudemire and one of the greatest complementary stars in the history of the game automatically means that Thurmond would be relied upon less on offense and could pay more attention on the defensive end on securing the paint and laying the smacketh down on anyone who dares cross his path.

I honestly see no issue with their players sharing shots since I think when simple context is placed it becomes a none issue.

yep another thing i wld like to add kobe and shaq shared the ball and lebron and wade did well 2 at the start of this past season everybody thought that they cldnt do it and they proved everybody wrong (i still hate those mother ******* ***** ***** ***** **** ***) lol but i can respect what they did on the bball court anyways why cant kobe worthy and amer'e share the ball as well anyways on this match up i dont think amer'e wld do that great in the series big ben and kg shld be able to stop him but they cant stop kobe and worthy and again like i said b4 people totally forgot bout monta over here he can come in and play pg or sg and score like crazy 2

Eagles4Lyfe
11-18-2011, 09:33 PM
Yup Ellis of the bench with scoring and instant offense and Iggy with his premier defense then you also have Chandler waiting on the bench to. Just to much depth and to much of a complete team IMO.

Swashcuff
11-18-2011, 09:34 PM
You yoruself just called out Barry and White for being average defenders. Did you ever watch them play? How can you make that assumption? It goes exactly the same way.

His defensive numbers are inflated due to the era he played in. There is no way Thurmond would get 15 rebounds per game in this series. KG is unlike any player Thurmond ever faced and Thurmond was used to defending the paint, not a defender 15 feet from the basket. My argument is a legitimate one.

Trust me when I tell you that Nate Thurmond would lock down KG like he's never been locked down in his life. Thurmond is THE professional defender. So what if KG's unlike anyone Thurmond has ever faced you don't think a player with the defensive IQ of Nate Thurmond won't be able to figure him out? Thurmond defended Elvin Hayes' turnaround J as good as anyone do you really think he wouldn't be able to step out and defend against KG?

Swashcuff
11-18-2011, 09:36 PM
Which is why some advanced stats can be flawed and lead people to believe things that aren't necessarily true. Truth be told when it comes time to winning a championship any guy would easily put his ego aside and sacrifice and play a perfect role to helping that team.

Which is why we've put together a team of unselfish guys who can do just that. That usage thing in an all time redraft like thsi can seriously apply to every team because every teams stacked with talent so you have to use your best judgement.

We didn't know how people would react to seeing Thurmond on KG but I'm glad people are understanding it properly and see how it works out in our favor.

Actually the advanced stats aren't the issue. It's the basic stats. The advanced stats placed into context with the right understanding basically tells us all that we want to know about this.

All we have to use is simple context in these games and we'd be able to appreciate what each player can and cannot do.

Swashcuff
11-18-2011, 09:46 PM
yeah i know who he is he was 1 of the best ball players in the league but 1 of the worst team mates in that era as well he was always running his mouth saying stupid stuff if you want to talk bout chemistry issues start with your own players first



n the same argument can be made for rick barry vs worthy/iguadola bball has evolved since it started just like you said some of the better players back then that were all stars might just be role players just look at rick barry shoot realise 1 of the ugliest 1 i have ever seen(still efecetive as hell) wld get blocked like crazy dribbling skills are nothing compared to todays game kobe and iggy wld doing great on d but again thats just basing it on ur comment if you want to put them in todays era the playing field will not be on your side at all


oh and damn how can nobody talked bout monta ellis i know he aint as good as the other players but when it comes to score he is up there with the best of them

This is an issue I'm going to be arguing A LOT in these re drafts. You can't just make a blanket statement and say since Barry wasn't the most gifted player in terms of the shooting form and what not that he won't thrive today. That's completely off. His shooting mechanics would have been worked on differently, he would have benefited from everything that Iggy and others have and would have been a way better player. Not because a player played in a different era that means that he'd come in another era and be the exact same player, he'd also benefit from everything the players of that era benefited from or vice versa as the case may be.

Had Iggy played in Barry's era chances are he would have focused less on his athleticism more on basketball basics. So all and all he would be half the defender he is today and NO WHERE NEAR the dunker he is. He'd still have his skills but he wouldn't have had the opportunity to learn from all those who came before him. Barry had much less to learn from.

Sly Guy
11-18-2011, 09:47 PM
I do have to say KG would go off on Amar'e, But I think the Raps would win.

at first glance, this is how I see it too. But I don't see KG being able score 35 a night to pull it out.

jericho
11-18-2011, 09:50 PM
Oh he's offline believe me he'll be back either later or tommorrow for sure. I'm just in here as much as I can defending while I can cause I won't be on tommorrow at all. Hopefully he forgets and won't come back lol but 2 days scarey stuff man.
That's actually sick though how you've seen all these guys play it's better hearing from people who have because I'm not going to BS and say I've seen some guys play their whole careers.
Also ya I heard the same thing about PR but Cuba isn't any different lol..

lol guess ill check it tomorrow to see what they have to say and no lol i havnt seen all there games just a few games some highlights on youtube and searching round the internet oh and bout your team they have a good young core all your team needs is a better coaching staff wich i think that new casey guy wld be good a defensive center move bargs to pf i think jonas is good enough to do that but we will see oh and calderon needs to go he a good pg but you guys need 1 of the new breed of pg thats coming to the league like the rose's wall's westbrook's 1 that can score and make some good plays hey maybe you guys can draft austin rivers or some other good college kid personally i like jared bayless i think he has a lot of potential

jericho
11-18-2011, 10:08 PM
This is an issue I'm going to be arguing A LOT in these re drafts. You can't just make a blanket statement and say since Barry wasn't the most gifted player in terms of the shooting form and what not that he won't thrive today. That's completely off. His shooting mechanics would have been worked on differently, he would have benefited from everything that Iggy and others have and would have been a way better player. Not because a player played in a different era that means that he'd come in another era and be the exact same player, he'd also benefit from everything the players of that era benefited from or vice versa as the case may be.

Had Iggy played in Barry's era chances are he would have focused less on his athleticism more on basketball basics. So all and all he would be half the defender he is today and NO WHERE NEAR the dunker he is. He'd still have his skills but he wouldn't have had the opportunity to learn from all those who came before him. Barry had much less to learn from.

i respect your opinion and it does make sense but the thing is that they dont see it that way they dont think that if bill russell wilt chamberlain big o jerry west nate thurmond walt frazier dr.j etc etc came in todays game and pass thru the same that these players had gone thru they think that we are talking bout the players staying the same from there perspective era and in that perspective i know he a hall of famer rick barry but staying the same come from there perspective era who wld you chose barry or iggy barry who had the better jump shot or iggy who is gifted athleticly and 1 of the best perimeter defenders oh n there game is almost the same they avr over 5 n 5 on rb and ast
in that case coming from those eras of bball n learning from what they learned during that time my pick wld be iggy cuz again the game has developed a lot but if we put it like you said the story wld be diff

Sadds The Gr8
11-19-2011, 12:06 AM
:jumpy:

Cal827
11-19-2011, 12:22 AM
Laker fans must be conflicted here. They could vote for their hero (to many of them), but on the other team lol

Raptors here. Kobe and Amar'e would be too much, then also Iggy/Chandler/Drummond could stop the rest.

Mile High Champ
11-19-2011, 11:09 AM
Laker fans must be conflicted here. They could vote for their hero (to many of them), but on the other team lol

Raptors here. Kobe and Amar'e would be too much, then also Iggy/Chandler/Drummond could stop the rest.

Of all the players you think Amare would be too much.. Oh how I can't stand the NBA forum..

Swashcuff
11-19-2011, 11:39 AM
Of all the players you think Amare would be too much.. Oh how I can't stand the NBA forum..

Dude what did Amar'e do against the Tim Duncan led Spurs in the 05 Playoffs?

In his prime he ranks among the elite PFs in terms of pure offensive production.

knicks=love
11-19-2011, 12:47 PM
:facepalm: to the majority of the nba forum for not knowing anything. i'm actually kinda happy i didn't make the playoffs because of examples like this.

Sadds The Gr8
11-19-2011, 12:49 PM
:facepalm: to the majority of the nba forum for not knowing anything. i'm actually kinda happy i didn't make the playoffs because of examples like this.

most of the GM's in the game voted for our team anyways...:eyebrow:

Cal827
11-19-2011, 01:23 PM
Of all the players you think Amare would be too much.. Oh how I can't stand the NBA forum..

U Mad Bro?

Come on, you act like I'm making the worst argument ever on PSD. I'm pretty sure in another thread that someone said that Lebron and Wade would sweep a Bulls team with Rose and Jordan lol

Amare dealt with Duncan (who is a great defensively) a lot ended up with very good numbers against him (He averaged 37 against him in 05, 25-12 against him, and 23-9 in another series against him. As mentioned before, he can be an elite offensive power forward. It would also be extremely hard to stop him, knowing that they have a big threat on the outside in Kobe. And Unlike the Knicks, this redraft team has players around that could cope with his defensive flaws. If you don't like my argument, go ahead and rid my vote, I don't think it's going to have an impact anyways lol

roshan3ai
11-19-2011, 02:01 PM
I don't agree with K=L and MHC here. You can't be serious. I recognized 16 users who know the game and voted for the Raps and only 7 that voted for the Lakers. You can complain about the NBA forum all you guys want, but if the ReDrafters aren't voting for you either, it should tell you something.

Sadds The Gr8
11-19-2011, 02:28 PM
I don't agree with K=L and MHC here. You can't be serious. I recognized 16 users who know the game and voted for the Raps and only 7 that voted for the Lakers. You can complain about the NBA forum all you guys want, but if the ReDrafters aren't voting for you either, it should tell you something.

exactly my point. even if u take out the NBA forum votes from us, and leave just the GM's, my team still wins 15-12...

ChiSox219
11-19-2011, 03:05 PM
My concern is that nobody will know who Rick Barry is. One of the most underrated players the league has ever seen.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barryri01.html

I think your concern should be the opposite. Someone who doesn't know Ricky Barry, they look up his career averages and see numbers that were inflated by playing in the ABA.

No doubt Barry was a good player but he is not a second option in this re-draft. Frankly, I don't think you know who Rick Barry is, otherwise why would you draft a personality like that to play next to someone as abrasive as Garnett?

You linked to his stats, what I noticed most was Barry's 23.2 PPG on 20.4 FGA. Barry is the only player in NBA history to not average 24+ when getting at least 20 FGA.

---note--- Geroge Mikan also fits in this category but he played in a different game with no shot clock.


People don't know who Barry is and it is costimg me right now..

Or people don't think Barry's game would translate well to this league's talent to pool, at least that's how I feel.


exactly my point. even if u take out the NBA forum votes from us, and leave just the GM's, my team still wins 15-12...

I'm surprised it's that close. I think if you run a 2 man game with Kobe-Amare, how the hell do you stop that? Can't go under screens, Kobe will kill you. Can't go over screens because prime Kobe will get to the basket at will. You trap Kobe and now you have one of the greatest finishers ever rolling to the basket. Even if you manage to rotate over and protect the basket, Amare's jumper is nice and he'll just pop instead of roll. Too nasty.

If all that fails, Kobe can just post Jo Jo until the Lakers have to double team and then move the ball to a talent supporting cast, love Worthy in this team.



My only problem with the Raptors was an average to below average defense but that's not an issue in this series.

Sportfan
11-19-2011, 03:12 PM
**** my mouse bugged.


i vote for eagles team