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View Full Version : Billy Hunter: "Maybe we can start our own league, there are facilities we can [use]"



spreadeagle
11-18-2011, 05:17 AM
Commissioner Hunter?????
Billy Hunter (now the Executive Director of the NBA Players’ Trade Association, or something to that effect) and NFLPA head DeMaurice Smith spoke at a panel yesterday, and the author Touré captured some of the key talking points, and posted them on his Twitter page last night.

The big take-away was renewed talk of NBA players possibly starting their own league (word to Amar’e Stoudemire):

Billy Hunter: “Maybe we can start our own league. There are faculties where we can do that. Can’t play at MSG but can play at St John’s.” … There’s talk of getting a TV deal and creating a new league but it’d have to be with a network that’s unafraid to cross the NBA.

Billy Hunter: “The owners are scared of LeBron style movement and want to keep players wedded to franchises … The players’ decision to blow up the union [decertify] was unanimous. They were high-fiving, sayin let’s get it on!”

“The season is not yet on life support. There’s still time to put on an abbreviated season.”

According to Touré, Hunter also touched on how the NBA is failing to properly market itself in China (the world’s biggest hoops market) despite the League’s incredible growth, claimed that the NBA doesn’t have the “will” to reach a labor deal, and re-affirmed his opposition to a hard salary cap.

As for the talk of players creating their own, separate league, that’s all it is at the moment: just talk. Here’s to hoping a deal can be worked out with the NBA before this turns into its own interminable battle and debate.

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2011/11/billy-hunter-maybe-we-can-start-our-own-league/

bbcmillionaire
11-18-2011, 05:44 AM
Fking Billy hunter -_-

zizo
11-18-2011, 05:56 AM
fcuk the owners and stern

:dance:

LakersIn5
11-18-2011, 07:02 AM
**** the owners for wanting to take the players freedom to play on the team of their choosing

More-Than-Most
11-18-2011, 07:07 AM
Lol lets see who has the balls to step up and put hundreds of millions of dollars on the line like the owners do. Lets see how fast people jump ship when some actually lose money like the owners do. Lol this will never work because you wont find many people willing to invest the kind of money like the owners of the nba have. Its easy to say lets start our own league but at the end of the day it will never happen.

spreadeagle
11-18-2011, 07:47 AM
You know things have gotten bad when the union has disbanded and the players are seriously considering starting a new league lol

NYY09
11-18-2011, 08:06 AM
All posturing and nonsense. A deal will be hammered out last minute.

Tom Stone
11-18-2011, 08:20 AM
If it comes to that .....the union would be gone and the NBA would be allowed to hire new players........Where do you think the young stars will run to........back to the NBA....with no big pay day yet, they would join the established league, not a league ran by idiots....they will have trouble finding millionaires that are willing to lose money, because the players and Billy want no cap put in place, the league they start, will have two teams that can compete for a championship, the reason our league crashed, their league would do the same because they want it to stay the same.....let the players start their own league, if the players owned part of one of the teams ....the first thing out of the players mouth would be, we need a hard cap, my team needs a Chance to win and I don't want to lose money........They will understand real quick that they were in the wrong....reality is a Biitch

ShakeN'Bake
11-18-2011, 09:03 AM
If it comes to that .....the union would be gone and the NBA would be allowed to hire new players........Where do you think the young stars will run to........back to the NBA....with no big pay day yet, they would join the established league, not a league ran by idiots....they will have trouble finding millionaires that are willing to lose money, because the players and Billy want no cap put in place, the league they start, will have two teams that can compete for a championship, the reason our league crashed, their league would do the same because they want it to stay the same.....let the players start their own league, if the players owned part of one of the teams ....the first thing out of the players mouth would be, we need a hard cap, my team needs a Chance to win and I don't want to lose money........They will understand real quick that they were in the wrong....reality is a Biitch

Yup. I don't see how this would work out well for the players in reality.

nstojic
11-18-2011, 09:06 AM
get this ****ing guy outta there, ASAP! Anecdotal'ly' it's said that if the players were polled individually, 60% would take the latest deal...

rapjuicer06
11-18-2011, 09:09 AM
Who are the players going to go to for money to start this league? This might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Were talking about greedy as **** players forking out money to start their own league? Laughable, straight up laughable

FOBolous
11-18-2011, 09:13 AM
well good luck trying to earn the same amount of money.

heyman321
11-18-2011, 10:33 AM
And I'm the King of England

daleja424
11-18-2011, 10:38 AM
Id pay to watch...

Id rather watch this new players league than the NBA with replacement players...

talk about a snooze fest...

tcav701
11-18-2011, 10:49 AM
If the players tried to start thier own league they would see how expensive it is to do so and maybe get an understanding of the owners issues. Then again probably not because they are all pushed through school and kept uneducated on purpose but as soon as their league was losing money they would realize the owners issues and come crawling back.

daleja424
11-18-2011, 10:54 AM
I doubt they would be creating anything on their own dime... they would fund it with sponsorships, investors, and TV deals. They wouldn't have to front much of anything...

tcav701
11-18-2011, 11:03 AM
And if some of the richest and smartest investors in the world cant operate NBA teams in the black how would spontaneous investors fare?

daleja424
11-18-2011, 11:09 AM
Not bad actually... b/c this players league wouldn't be forced to run 10-15 horrible franchises that lose large sums of money every single year.

If you cut out the bottom half of the NBA it would be enormously profitable... Its just that the money makers cannot make enough to support 15 lousy franchises.

ackar
11-18-2011, 11:10 AM
All these nay sayers....it can be done... you have a model to follow and several models not to follow. The infrastructure and fan base is there. TV money will be there once there is a real plan and tv can see rating and advertising dollars.

It can be done...will it? Thats another story!

ackar
11-18-2011, 11:11 AM
All these nay sayers....it can be done... you have a model to follow and several models not to follow. The infrastructure and fan base is there. TV money will be there once there is a real plan and tv can see rating and advertising dollars.

It can be done...will it? Thats another story!

tcav701
11-18-2011, 11:20 AM
Not bad actually... b/c this players league wouldn't be forced to run 10-15 horrible franchises that lose large sums of money every single year.

If you cut out the bottom half of the NBA it would be enormously profitable... Its just that the money makers cannot make enough to support 15 lousy franchises.

So 10-15 teams of the top talent does nothing for the long term sucess of the league. The other players and rookies will go back to the NBA. So essentially its a one and done season. Once the NBA reaches a deal with the "bottom half", and players who turn down the players leage will strike a deal with the NBA and the college draft will go to the NBA.

After their growth is stunted immediately by billionares with vested interest in the NBA, the NBA will buy this league out and players will either have to conform to the new CBA that non superstars accepted or walk.

Not a good idea.

daleja424
11-18-2011, 11:21 AM
I agree. It can be done. And it can REALLY be done if they limit it to like 8 regional teams.

west- based in LA
northwest- based in Seattle
midwest- based in Chicago
southwest- based in Dallas
south- based in Miami
northeast- based in Boston
new york
midatlantic- based in DC

That represents the biggest markets (for the most part) + regional fans to latch on to the closest team.

I'd set it up as like a 20 game season. top 2 teams in each division (west and east) make the playoffs. Series would be best out of 3.

It is a mini league that could threaten to grow once the big markets start to latch on to the idea...

daleja424
11-18-2011, 11:25 AM
So 10-15 teams of the top talent does nothing for the long term sucess of the league. The other players and rookies will go back to the NBA. So essentially its a one and done season. Once the NBA reaches a deal with the "bottom half", and players who turn down the players leage will strike a deal with the NBA and the college draft will go to the NBA.

After their growth is stunted immediately by billionares with vested interest in the NBA, the NBA will buy this league out and players will either have to conform tho the new CBA then non superstars accepted or walk.

Not a good idea.

You are assuming a couple of things here that I disagree with. First, you are assuming that the NBA would even be interested in making a deal with the bottom half of the talent pool in the NBA.

You are also assuming that the NBA that couldn't make money with 30 teams and the top talent in the world will be able to make money with out the best players in the world.

And you are also assuming that fans value the brand more than the talent... which I believe to be highly inaccurate. That is something Stern would say... but it is not an accurate portrayal of reality IMO.

29$JerZ
11-18-2011, 11:26 AM
Wow :pity:

still a fan
11-18-2011, 11:32 AM
So Hunter lets get this straight?

You think St.Johns is the place to play instead of the Garden?

St johns who seats 6006 people vs the Garden who seats 19,522 people??? Okay

Last time I checked MSG Network was owned by Dolan?

Now Hunter with his big mouth thinks St. Johns is willing to give up playing many home games at the Garden? Thats their biggest revenue maker playing there.

If St. Johns or any other college arena does this then the Garden will not host any tournaments or finals, just like the other NBA arenas.


Lets now think about who is going to fund this league?

Who will run it?

Why don't the agents invest their money since they caused this mess?

See now if I'm a player I say to the agents we make you like you say we make the NBA, anyone else getting this correlation?

If the agents who say the NBA is made by the players then why not make your own league now that you have the opportunity?

I would laugh my ??? off if two things happened:

1. agents say no to investing
2. agents offer a worse deal than the NBA owners did

Do fans truly understand that the average NBA player made 5.8 mil last yr, and salaries for just the players were over 2,650,000,000????

Do fans realize in starting their own league out of the 450 players and 30 teams that only a possible 8 teams will be formed which is 120 players?

Keep that thought, these players (the 120) do not make the 5.8 mil average, these players average over 12Mil so salary for the 120 players will be greater than half the salary for the players of 30 teams???

Everyone getting this? $1,440,000,000 salary for 120 players vs 2.65 Bil for 3.75 X the amount of players.

Lets also realize that revenues for these 8 teams will not come close to the revenue for 30 teams.

Now lets focus on who the coach's will be, and how much they get paid, realize it can't be any coach in the NBA since they are part of management, right?

I would love to be in a room with Hunter, and the players and put some reality into the players.

When you really take a step back and understand what the owners truly invest the players should not be crying about the new CBA, a few tweaks here and there and we'd be watching basketball right now.

Want to pass blame, its soley on the agents because they have these players brain washed, and they get affected with the new CBA more than the players do. Actually blame the palyers for listening.

tcav701
11-18-2011, 11:33 AM
You are assuming a couple of things here that I disagree with. First, you are assuming that the NBA would even be interested in making a deal with the bottom half of the talent pool in the NBA.

You are also assuming that the NBA that couldn't make money with 30 teams and the top talent in the world will be able to make money with out the best players in the world.

And you are also assuming that fans value the brand more than the talent... which I believe to be highly inaccurate. That is something Stern would say... but it is not an accurate portrayal of reality IMO.

The fact is the players dont run the NBA, they might in the fans eyes. But the owners have all the levarage in stadium contracts, tv deals and in politics. You are assuming city desicion makers who have relationships with owners would sign off on this.

Attempting something like this would go much beyond David Stern lol. I am not saying they wouldnt make money (if the players split whatever profits they made which would surely be less than they would make in the NBA), I am saying long term it would not work. If these players wanted money and wated to create superteams they would have went to Europe.

They continue to make empty threats and all these statements are is desperation. It is the NBA or nothing for these guys and to create their own league will take years of planning and approvals from thousands of investors and law makers.

tcav701
11-18-2011, 11:35 AM
So Hunter lets get this straight?

You think St.Johns is the place to play instead of the Garden?

St johns who seats 6006 people vs the Garden who seats 19,522 people??? Okay

Last time I checked MSG Network was owned by Dolan?

Now Hunter with his big mouth thinks St. Johns is willing to give up playing many home games at the Garden? Thats their biggest revenue maker playing there.

If St. Johns or any other college arena does this then the Garden will not host any tournaments or finals, just like the other NBA arenas.


Lets now think about who is going to fund this league?

Who will run it?

Why don't the agents invest their money since they caused this mess?

See now if I'm a player I say to the agents we make you like you say we make the NBA, anyone else getting this correlation?

If the agents who say the NBA is made by the players then why not make your own league now that you have the opportunity?

I would laugh my ??? off if two things happened:

1. agents say no to investing
2. agents offer a worse deal than the NBA owners did

Do fans truly understand that the average NBA player made 5.8 mil last yr, and salaries for just the players were over 2,650,000,000????

Do fans realize in starting their own league out of the 450 players and 30 teams that only a possible 8 teams will be formed which is 120 players?

Keep that thought, these players (the 120) do not make the 5.8 mil average, these players average over 12Mil so salary for the 120 players will be greater than half the salary for the players of 30 teams???

Everyone getting this? $1,440,000,000 salary for 120 players vs 2.65 Bil for 3.75 X the amount of players.

Lets also realize that revenues for these 8 teams will not come close to the revenue for 30 teams.

Now lets focus on who the coach's will be, and how much they get paid, realize it can't be any coach in the NBA since they are part of management, right?

I would love to be in a room with Hunter, and the players and put some reality into the players.

When you really take a step back and understand what the owners truly invest the players should not be crying about the new CBA, a few tweaks here and there and we'd be watching basketball right now.

Want to pass blame, its soley on the agents because they have these players brain washed, and they get affected with the new CBA more than the players do. Actually blame the palyers for listening.

Thank you for spelling it out, which I didnt want to take the time to do.

If these top players think they can operate at a surplus without taking a paycut are delusional.

daleja424
11-18-2011, 11:35 AM
actually... most of these guys could carve out nice careers in Europe...

there are alternatives to the NBA...

we can not lose sight of this fact... this is a lockout.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-18-2011, 11:42 AM
How would there league be ran? Talent pool dumped into a fast draft of a few teams? Doubt everyone has a job. Rest would come crawling back to NBA. Only ones would benefit would be the same top players holding this season hostage. Rest of NBA players wanna play cause there either on the outs or in the middle of the pack or just drafted.

The rich over paid super stars don't care about this season since there stacked with cash. Even the top players wouldn't even come close to getting what there getting now. Well maybe a few would come close if some cable tv deal was huge. I could see the players bickering after the draft don't go well and ya maybe two heavily stacked teams but rest be spread out. Or the injured don't get paid or they play on nonguaranteed deals in there new league.

tcav701
11-18-2011, 11:44 AM
All in all, it would be a massive regret for these players to walk away from the NBA. They need to realize at some point, the NBA made them who they are, and they can take it away.

daleja424
11-18-2011, 11:45 AM
not saying it would be a long term solution...but it would be something to do.

it would mean some money for them

and it would mean some basketball for us

still a fan
11-18-2011, 11:46 AM
actually... most of these guys could carve out nice careers in Europe...

there are alternatives to the NBA...

we can not lose sight of this fact... this is a lockout.

Actually lets not lose site that this is not a lockout any longer, there is no Union remember?

In order for the players and owners to talk again the union has to be formed.

And lets not lose fact that if the players agreed there wouldn't be a lockout:)

What is easier for the players is the next question?

Trying to start a league that leaves out roughly 330 players, or just signing the contract?

If starting a league is even a remote possibility what exactly are the players fighting the NBA for then?

Understand according to the top players they are protecting the rest of the league, they are protecting rookies, they are protecting the MLE players.............

so how exactly is that going to help the new league protect all these players if the new league is guaranteeing putting 330 players out of work?

What about rookies coming out of college in the future, how do they join these 8 elite teams with 330 other players with experience waiting in the wings to get a chance?

How would a 8 team 15 man roster feel for a player who today is a starter earning around 12 MIL and now is relagated to the bench, or even didn't even get to dress because only 12 players dress for games or do they rule that out as well?

Will the 8 teams then look to save money and go with 12 man rosters? That cuts down the league to 96 players?

Lastly if your into watching allstar type games you should be all for this, but if your into watching hard nose basketball with guy's fighting to get some burn, then the 354 players will make for a very entertaining league of their own.

29$JerZ
11-18-2011, 11:47 AM
From a fans stand point with the lack of basketball outside College/Europe its great but from a business and just realistic chance of working it makes no sense imo

tcav701
11-18-2011, 11:55 AM
Actually lets not lose site that this is not a lockout any longer, there is no Union remember?

In order for the players and owners to talk again the union has to be formed.

And lets not lose fact that if the players agreed there wouldn't be a lockout:)

What is easier for the players is the next question?

Trying to start a league that leaves out roughly 330 players, or just signing the contract?

If starting a league is even a remote possibility what exactly are the players fighting the NBA for then?

Understand according to the top players they are protecting the rest of the league, they are protecting rookies, they are protecting the MLE players.............

so how exactly is that going to help the new league protect all these players if the new league is guaranteeing putting 330 players out of work?

What about rookies coming out of college in the future, how do they join these 8 elite teams with 330 other players with experience waiting in the wings to get a chance?

How would a 8 team 15 man roster feel for a player who today is a starter earning around 12 MIL and now is relagated to the bench, or even didn't even get to dress because only 12 players dress for games or do they rule that out as well?

Will the 8 teams then look to save money and go with 12 man rosters? That cuts down the league to 96 players?

Lastly if your into watching allstar type games you should be all for this, but if your into watching hard nose basketball with guy's fighting to get some burn, then the 354 players will make for a very entertaining league of their own.

Ive got to let you know that I am not sure if I have seen your posts before but after today I am a huge fan of them.

still a fan
11-18-2011, 12:00 PM
Ive got to let you know that I am not sure if I have seen your posts before but after today I am a huge fan of them.

I basically post in the Knicks forum but since this has become a NBA issue and the Knicks forum is relatively quiet I now post here:)

thanks for the nice words :)

JLynn943
11-18-2011, 12:15 PM
I can't imagine them being worse owners than half of the owners in the current NBA.

still a fan
11-18-2011, 12:19 PM
I can't imagine them being worse owners than half of the owners in the current NBA.

I'm not sure the point is who would be a better owner?

Will they truly invest is the question and what about the many who don't get to play?

The point of this non CBA signings is to protect all the players not 96 of them.

If I'm one of the 350+ players I'm now organizing a lets cross the line and play in the NBA, the rules aren't that bad vs being unemployed now are they?

McPeak92
11-18-2011, 12:19 PM
I would boycott

still a fan
11-18-2011, 12:24 PM
Here's a thought:

I would love Hunter and the big time agents to start a league, and us fans who actually pay their salaries, which gets lost by both the owners and players............simply not support the league.

The league is BS anyways, glorified allstar games with no emphasis on growing a team, making smart draft picks or strategic trades.

I'd love all these big time clowns to lose their shirts with this investment, then realize what the NBA is offering in this economy is pretty damn good.

As I've stated a few tweaks here and there by the owners and we are watching NBA basketball.

rapjuicer06
11-18-2011, 12:29 PM
It's all about the players Ego's now. I could see them forming a league, making less money just to try and stick it to the owners. Then after a year of failing they'll run back to the owners...IF there isn't a big lawsuit first from the owners. They are called OWNERS for a reason. They bought you, they own you. You SIGNED a contract saying so. Players thinking they deserve more than the owners is laughable.

bulldog312
11-18-2011, 12:32 PM
Really, it wouldn't be that hard to get all of this in place. Not as a long term, permanent solution, but as a way to bring income to get the players by and force the owners to give in. I'm sure finding venues wouldn't be a problem (even if they only seat 10k, that's ok). I'm sure they could easily work out some game by game tv contracts.

Again, to be clear, I can't see any way they form a long term solution. It's simply not going to happen. They aren't organized enough to bring in what the NBA does. But I do think they can be organized enough to "get by" financially and get the owners to cave.

rapjuicer06
11-18-2011, 12:32 PM
Can the players get their sponserships taken away? Since they have deals with the NBA? I've always been curious about that. If the players form a league, can the NBA have any kind of lawsuit if Nike, Addidas or whoever else help them out?

bulldog312
11-18-2011, 12:34 PM
It's all about the players Ego's now. I could see them forming a league, making less money just to try and stick it to the owners. Then after a year of failing they'll run back to the owners...IF there isn't a big lawsuit first from the owners. They are called OWNERS for a reason. They bought you, they own you. You SIGNED a contract saying so. Players thinking they deserve more than the owners is laughable.

I'm not a lawyer, but from what I understand the owners could never win that lawsuit. They are the ones locking out the players, not the other way around.

Silent
11-18-2011, 12:35 PM
The players need to fire Billy Hunter and play ball allready

still a fan
11-18-2011, 12:56 PM
I'm not a lawyer, but from what I understand the owners could never win that lawsuit. They are the ones locking out the players, not the other way around.

Not any longer, the players do not belong to a union, there is no way to negotiate, this is no longer on the owners.......

Its all changed with the law suits, which are now scheduled for late Feb or March.

Which then the owners can push out further and then there is no 2012 draft, no 2012 FA's.

See how this can get real ugly real fast?

IWantPizza
11-18-2011, 01:08 PM
Lol lets see who has the balls to step up and put hundreds of millions of dollars on the line like the owners do. Lets see how fast people jump ship when some actually lose money like the owners do. Lol this will never work because you wont find many people willing to invest the kind of money like the owners of the nba have. Its easy to say lets start our own league but at the end of the day it will never happen.

I couldn't agree more. Well said, sir.

Shmontaine
11-18-2011, 01:18 PM
when i think of player owners, i think of semi-pro...

for those saying it would be easy to get investers, what do think the nba owners are?? it's the same thing, essentially...

what type of return on this short term investment are these investors going to accept??? I don't know what the players are thinking... if they invest their own money, let them.. they MAY break even...

any investor seeing this opportunity will act the same way the nba owners are acting right now... they will see that the players can't create this league without them, they will demand to take half the money the league makes... sound familiar??

ink
11-18-2011, 01:25 PM
No wonder Hunter completely blew the lockout strategy for the players.

They reach a complete stalemate in talks, start the process to sue the league, and THEN he says MAYBE we could start our own league.

Hey Billy, got any solid plans this time???

Huge credibility problem with someone that flat out stupid.

Dade County
11-18-2011, 01:32 PM
Do me a favor Hunter.... Strap TNT to your chest and pray that their is 77 virgins waitng for you...

A damn shame:facepalm:

mdm692
11-18-2011, 01:32 PM
As soon as the 40% of players who want to start their own league(being stat, pierce, etan thomas, tyrus thomas, derek fisher etc) sign the deal for a new league the nba will call the 60% of players who were ok with this deal(kobe enuff marketing right there) and start the season. Now this crappy league in arenas seating 5000 people will have to overcharge for tickets to meet players needs when nba arenas seating close to 20000 people have seats starting from 10$ and up. Not to mention nba has deals with espn, tnt, abc, fox and most of the teams local stations while this imaginary league has the internet(live streaming) and ummm the history channel?? And the most important part who will provide the money.

ink
11-18-2011, 01:40 PM
As soon as the 40% of players who want to start their own league(being stat, pierce, etan thomas, tyrus thomas, derek fisher etc) sign the deal for a new league the nba will call the 60% of players who were ok with this deal(kobe enuff marketing right there) and start the season. Now this crappy league in arenas seating 5000 people will have to overcharge for tickets to meet players needs when nba arenas seating close to 20000 people have seats starting from 10$ and up. Not to mention nba has deals with espn, tnt, abc, fox and most of the teams local stations while this imaginary league has the internet(live streaming) and ummm the history channel?? And the most important part who will provide the money.

That's the biggest joke of all, and the thing that makes the players look so ******** about this.

They hated the terms their owners were offering. Their owners are also their financial backers, their investors.

Guess what they're in need of now to start this pretend league?

INVESTORS.

:laugh2:

rapjuicer06
11-18-2011, 02:13 PM
Not any longer, the players do not belong to a union, there is no way to negotiate, this is no longer on the owners.......

Its all changed with the law suits, which are now scheduled for late Feb or March.

Which then the owners can push out further and then there is no 2012 draft, no 2012 FA's.

See how this can get real ugly real fast?

So can the owners/NBA sue if the players start their own league using the same things the NBA uses?

rapjuicer06
11-18-2011, 02:20 PM
I seriously don't understand why the players ever fight the owners in these things. The owners are rich for a reason, and that is because of GOOD BUSINESS decisions. Players make their money by playing a game. Now you have a group of players fight against a group of businessmen....hmm who's going to come out on top? Players in every league are just stupid if they think they are going to make the owners change everything. Obviously the Owners want to make the most money they can, but at the end of the day, they are still swimming in money. So they aren't going to make it ridiculous for the players, and its obvious because they are willing to split the money made 50/50 and the players, being dumb as they are, don't understand that

rapjuicer06
11-18-2011, 02:26 PM
The only thing about them making their own league that is at all entertaining is what would they do with all the players.

Have 10 star players pick teams? That'd be awesome

Kobe-Lebron-Wade-Howard-Rose-KD-Paul-DWill-Melo-Griffin

That'd be pretty awesome to watch...

GodsSon
11-18-2011, 02:27 PM
This is never going to happen. EVER.

specialiststeve
11-18-2011, 02:27 PM
No wonder we are at this point! Hunter and the players have no sense of reality. Let them play in Europe in the crackerjack box gyms and safety issues etc. for a quarter or less of what they make her.

Just impossible to fathom the stupidity and delusional thinking at this level.

GodsSon
11-18-2011, 02:28 PM
That's the biggest joke of all, and the thing that makes the players look so ******** about this.

They hated the terms their owners were offering. Their owners are also their financial backers, their investors.

Guess what they're in need of now to start this pretend league?

INVESTORS.

:laugh2:

This lol.

Muttman73
11-18-2011, 02:40 PM
What a joke, all of you who think that the players can or will do anything that doesn't directly benefit themselves or their lavish lifestyles are fooling yourselves.

The league, like the owners will endure, the players come and go.

smith&wesson
11-18-2011, 02:40 PM
i dont buy it. this is the players way of telling the owners "we dont need you" and threatening to start theyre own league. its just a tactic. a tactic that will not work.

rapjuicer06
11-18-2011, 02:40 PM
hopefully non of those players get kidnapped overseas...i don't think the owners will shell out the money for them at this point to get them back

rapjuicer06
11-18-2011, 02:41 PM
i dont buy it. this is the players way of telling the owners "we dont need you" and threatening to start theyre own league. its just a tactic. a tactic that will not work.

If I were an owner I'd sit back, chuckle and say lets see it. (with me sitting back in my chair, fingers locked behind my head with a ******* smirk on my face)

beliges
11-18-2011, 02:59 PM
Well if they were thinking about getting a better deal now they might as well start a new league. They rejected all the fair deals the owners were offering them and once they start a new league and realize how much money needs to be invested in every little aspect of it the players might finally realize that their demands are not even credible and run back to the league. Either way, NBA isnt going anywhere and no matter what league the players start, the NBA will always remain the greatest forum for basketball in the world. Best of luck Billy Hunter, another one of your empty threats.

heyman321
11-18-2011, 03:20 PM
I agree. It can be done. And it can REALLY be done if they limit it to like 8 regional teams.

west- based in LA
northwest- based in Seattle
midwest- based in Chicago
southwest- based in Dallas
south- based in Miami
northeast- based in Boston
new york
midatlantic- based in DC

That represents the biggest markets (for the most part) + regional fans to latch on to the closest team.

I'd set it up as like a 20 game season. top 2 teams in each division (west and east) make the playoffs. Series would be best out of 3.

It is a mini league that could threaten to grow once the big markets start to latch on to the idea...

yeah, and I'm the king of Magic Rainbow Chocolate land.

Tanakid777
11-18-2011, 03:22 PM
Ive got to let you know that I am not sure if I have seen your posts before but after today I am a huge fan of them.

x2

jeter4president
11-18-2011, 03:24 PM
All posturing and nonsense. A deal will be hammered out last minute.

just curious...when is last minute? we're already missing games. i would argue last minute has come and gone.

PhillyFaninLA
11-18-2011, 03:42 PM
Commissioner Hunter?????

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2011/11/billy-hunter-maybe-we-can-start-our-own-league/



Commission Pat Croce and his people if you want to even think about it being successful. Croce is savvy and if you know about everything his hand has been in then he makes things interesting and successful (aside from that trampoline baketball thing he created, but he did get it a TV deal). He knows business, people, and marketing and has a habit of success despite the odds.

ewmania
11-18-2011, 03:42 PM
Lol lets see who has the balls to step up and put hundreds of millions of dollars on the line like the owners do. Lets see how fast people jump ship when some actually lose money like the owners do. Lol this will never work because you wont find many people willing to invest the kind of money like the owners of the nba have. Its easy to say lets start our own league but at the end of the day it will never happen.

haha bro you think the owners are the only billion airs on the planet...

you seriously think there's no billion airs on the planet that if Lebron and Kobe ask them to help promote something they wouldn't be apart of that oppurtunity

PrettyBoyJ
11-18-2011, 03:44 PM
We'll see how far that gets them.. That has to be the dumbest idea ever.. They're going to spend more money then they where going to lose trying to start up their own league then they would accepting the deal that was on the table.. NBA players are digging their graves right now

oldfishermen
11-18-2011, 03:48 PM
Billy Hunter’s comment reminds me of road rage.

Hey owners, we do not like the way you are driving your vehicle. We also do not like your new terms on how you should drive your own vehicle. We just ran your vehicle off of the road to stop your driving. Now move you’re a@@ and accept our driving terms or you are road kill. We are taking your vehicle away from you and driving it ourselves.

rapjuicer06
11-18-2011, 03:55 PM
haha bro you think the owners are the only billion airs on the planet...

you seriously think there's no billion airs on the planet that if Lebron and Kobe ask them to help promote something they wouldn't be apart of that oppurtunity

What makes you think the other billionaires in the world are dumber than the one's in the nba?

rapjuicer06
11-18-2011, 03:57 PM
We'll see how far that gets them.. That has to be the dumbest idea ever.. They're going to spend more money then they where going to lose trying to start up their own league then they would accepting the deal that was on the table.. NBA players are digging their graves right now

Listening to idiots really isn't helping them either. The blind leading the blind

tcav701
11-18-2011, 04:37 PM
"The Court of Dreams" staring Billy Hunter.

Mj, Magic and Bird will return to face the heat big 3 everynight, forever.

WadeCounty
11-18-2011, 04:46 PM
apparently only a handful of people on this forum is up for supporting this idea if the players actually go for it, I for one am up for it.

Realistically this would never happen, there are too many if's and but's. It's nearly impossible for this to ever be successful

avrpatsfan
11-18-2011, 04:55 PM
This is a terrible idea. If they tried an 8 team league, what about all of the other players in the union? The NBAPA consists of more than just Lebron, Wade, Rose, Howard, and all of the other superstars, it's the entire NBA.

gwrighter
11-18-2011, 04:59 PM
lol, they'd be better off putting their money in the bank and sitting on that 1% return. That's more then they are going to make off of this possibility.

jrm2054
11-18-2011, 05:16 PM
so i guess this means no season

gaughan333
11-18-2011, 05:22 PM
I hope they try to start their own league. I will laugh at their failure.

SteBO
11-18-2011, 05:23 PM
The players need to fire Billy Hunter and play ball allready
I vouch for this....

ziglur
11-18-2011, 05:29 PM
I doubt the players could run a new league but the owners sure could. Set their own rules and no crying allowed would be the first. Cut salaries and avoiding super teams sounds good too me. These players need to be treated like employees not gods . Hunter better keep his stupid mouth shut before he gives other ideas!!

Wade>You
11-18-2011, 06:02 PM
Anyone who's watched the charity games knows how much better the officiating is compared to David Stern's referees. That's one of the biggest improvements to the game we will see right off the bat if the NBA does cease to exist. And I don't know of any one fan that is in favor of NBA's crappy officiating.

topdog
11-18-2011, 06:09 PM
**** the owners for wanting to take the players freedom to play on the team of their choosing

Why should they be able to choose whichever team they want? Realistically they could... if they took the veteran's minimum, BUT they want outrageous salaries ta boot.

The idea of the players forming a league is ridiculous and they really should just stop. Throwing this out there is like a little kid saying they are going to build their own house in the backyard because mommy and daddy won't let them eat whatever they want. If players think they're getting screwed with the proposed salaries, they really need to take a minute to think how little a brand new league could pay them.

WadeKobe
11-18-2011, 06:11 PM
All in all, it would be a massive regret for these players to walk away from the NBA. They need to realize at some point, the NBA made them who they are, and they can take it away.

The fact that you have continually defended poor business practices in this thread is really irritating. Owners should get rewarded for starting a poor business in a poor location?

Why should we reward a team for starting in Minneapolis Minnesota, and then losing money? Why should we reward a team for still existing in Los Angeles even though it can't hang? Why should we reward a team for choosing Orlando - which has no other sports teams - as its location?

This is ludicrous. Both sides are wrong, but the reality is that if this were the real world, a lot of these owners would be filing for bankruptcy and figuring out a new investment somewhere else. Why are we not asking they do that, now?

Get rid of the Clippers.
Get rid of the Kings.
Get rid of the Magic.
Get rid of the T'Wolves.
Get rid of the Hornets.
Get rid of the Grizzlies.
Get rid of the Bobcats.

I think that's a very fair start. From there, the league might once again become profitable.

PC
11-18-2011, 06:24 PM
Hunter is a moron if he thinks that this is even remotely close to realistic

Kings Faithful
11-18-2011, 06:32 PM
The fact that you have continually defended poor business practices in this thread is really irritating. Owners should get rewarded for starting a poor business in a poor location?

Why should we reward a team for starting in Minneapolis Minnesota, and then losing money? Why should we reward a team for still existing in Los Angeles even though it can't hang? Why should we reward a team for choosing Orlando - which has no other sports teams - as its location?

This is ludicrous. Both sides are wrong, but the reality is that if this were the real world, a lot of these owners would be filing for bankruptcy and figuring out a new investment somewhere else. Why are we not asking they do that, now?

Get rid of the Clippers.
Get rid of the Kings.
Get rid of the Magic.
Get rid of the T'Wolves.
Get rid of the Hornets.
Get rid of the Grizzlies.
Get rid of the Bobcats.

I think that's a very fair start. From there, the league might once again become profitable.

I'd rather get rid of the Heat than the Magic just to spite people like you who pretend these teams actually don't matter others.

topdog
11-18-2011, 06:39 PM
The fact that you have continually defended poor business practices in this thread is really irritating. Owners should get rewarded for starting a poor business in a poor location?

Why should we reward a team for starting in Minneapolis Minnesota, and then losing money? Why should we reward a team for still existing in Los Angeles even though it can't hang? Why should we reward a team for choosing Orlando - which has no other sports teams - as its location?

This is ludicrous. Both sides are wrong, but the reality is that if this were the real world, a lot of these owners would be filing for bankruptcy and figuring out a new investment somewhere else. Why are we not asking they do that, now?

Get rid of the Clippers.
Get rid of the Kings.
Get rid of the Magic.
Get rid of the T'Wolves.
Get rid of the Hornets.
Get rid of the Grizzlies.
Get rid of the Bobcats.

I think that's a very fair start. From there, the league might once again become profitable.

1. What is being rewarded? A labor deal that is reasonable and allows teams not to lose money?

2. Why should players get 57% of income when while the business (not the owners) gets the remaining 43%?

3. Why should players get to choose where they play and how much they get paid? You can sign with any team for the veteran's minimum.

4. There is nothing wrong with a number of these markets. Clippers still make money. Orlando has done well in the past and it may not be home to any other pro team but it is home to the Magical World of Tourist Dollars. The Wolves have also had success in attendance and marketing and provide a market share in the Midwest with t.v. deals for the Dakotas, Iowa, Nebraska, ect. Fans don't just exist on the coasts...

PhillyFaninLA
11-18-2011, 06:51 PM
I doubt the players could run a new league but the owners sure could. Set their own rules and no crying allowed would be the first. Cut salaries and avoiding super teams sounds good too me. These players need to be treated like employees not gods . Hunter better keep his stupid mouth shut before he gives other ideas!!

You do realize Super Teams have always existed in the NBA and the NCAA. What if the Mavs never would have traded away the studs around Dirk, they would have had a super team made via a good draft, Kobe draft day trade to the Lakers not allowed, Tim Duncan would not have been allowed to get drafted by teh Spurs that had the number 1 pick should I go pack further..

So you would have a system where the commissioner is required to break up teams for drafting well and has no free agency and makes you a slave to the franchise that drafts you because free agency cannot be allowed in controlling formations of super teams..

NYMetros
11-18-2011, 06:54 PM
This guy is an idiot.

Wade>You
11-18-2011, 06:58 PM
This is ludicrous. Both sides are wrong, but the reality is that if this were the real world, a lot of these owners would be filing for bankruptcy and figuring out a new investment somewhere else. Why are we not asking they do that, now? :clap:

and yet, maybe it is like the real world where the billionaires demand bailouts and others to take paycuts so they can prop up their failing businesses and keep making more money for themselves.

WadeKobe
11-18-2011, 07:25 PM
I'd rather get rid of the Heat than the Magic just to spite people like you who pretend these teams actually don't matter others.

Fine, if the Heat aren't cutting it, then get rid of them, too. I realize they do matter to others. However, in the real world, just because Java Joe's down the street matters to its regulars doesn't change the fact that they chose to put their business across the street from Starbucks and can't pay its bills.

We act as though this isn't a business. The reality is everyone is getting hurt right now because in 1988 the league decided it was going to start expanding and adding a bunch of new teams in cities that couldn't support them, and there wasn't enough talent to go around.

The league is now asking the players to make sacrifices so that their bad business decisions will work out.

And the players are not innocent. The players saw a bad deal that they could capitalize on and started doing so. Players like Gilbert Arenas and Rashard Lewis saw that in a 32-team league with less talent than there was in the 80s meant that they were #1 players and would demand #1 type money from small-market teams, or else they'd go make #3 player money in big markets. The small market teams had no choice but to pay up. The players also are getting way too big of a slice of the pie.

However, even a 50/50 revenue split and revenue sharing amongst the owners is not going to save teams in bad markets.

WadeKobe
11-18-2011, 07:32 PM
1. What is being rewarded? A labor deal that is reasonable and allows teams not to lose money?

You do realize you just said that others should have to sacrifice so that someone who made a stupid investment in a bad business shouldn't have to lose money on his bad investment anymore. Right? How is that not being rewarded for poor business decisions?


2. Why should players get 57% of income when while the business (not the owners) gets the remaining 43%?


They shouldn't. But if you seriously believe a 50/50 split is going to save teams like the Clippers and Bobcats in a 30 team league you're delusional.


3. Why should players get to choose where they play and how much they get paid? You can sign with any team for the veteran's minimum.


It's called an agreement. We all reach them with employers. Why should I not be able to choose to move to Los Angeles and work at a new night club for $20/hr plus tips if they're willing to pay me that?



4. There is nothing wrong with a number of these markets. Clippers still make money. Orlando has done well in the past and it may not be home to any other pro team but it is home to the Magical World of Tourist Dollars. The Wolves have also had success in attendance and marketing and provide a market share in the Midwest with t.v. deals for the Dakotas, Iowa, Nebraska, ect. Fans don't just exist on the coasts...

I'm pretty sure that Charlotte, Sacramento, LA Clippers, and Orlando are all on the coasts. So I'm not sure what your last sentence means.

If you actually think that the Clippers, Magic, and Wolves are among the 8 teams turning a profit, I'd love to see some evidence.

NYKalltheway
11-18-2011, 07:56 PM
You can't just create a league out of the blue. I like the plan and would be all for it if it were realistic....

topdog
11-18-2011, 07:58 PM
You do realize you just said that others should have to sacrifice so that someone who made a stupid investment in a bad business shouldn't have to lose money on his bad investment anymore. Right? How is that not being rewarded for poor business decisions?

No, I didn't. And I would say "sacrifice" is completely the wrong term when talking about millionaires. The NBA is a good business, but it's made a couple of bad labor deals. Trying to fix a broken system is not being rewarded for a bad job. It is facing facts and repairing your investment so it can be profitable and grow.


They shouldn't. But if you seriously believe a 50/50 split is going to save teams like the Clippers and Bobcats in a 30 team league you're delusional.

"Saving" teams whose owners won't spend money they have or whose big decision maker is the antithesis as a GM of what he was as a player is not at all my point or concern. I just think it's fairly elementary that 50-50 is a reasonable 2 party agreement.




It's called an agreement. We all reach them with employers. Why should I not be able to choose to move to Los Angeles and work at a new night club for $20/hr plus tips if they're willing to pay me that?

Exactly! And owners don't want to make this agreement. Players whine as if they are being shackled to a location, but they can go wherever they want. The sticking point is they don't want their salaries cut to go where they want to. Your club example is random and does not address the fact that the NBA functions as the company with each franchise being more like a branch. The club example works for overseas teams but not within the NBA.




I'm pretty sure that Charlotte, Sacramento, LA Clippers, and Orlando are all on the coasts. So I'm not sure what your last sentence means. East or West Coast as typically denoted as such i.e. California and the New England area. Meaning areas like the midwest, southeast and southwest have smaller markets but still are important as exploitable markets.


If you actually think that the Clippers, Magic, and Wolves are among the 8 teams turning a profit, I'd love to see some evidence.

I used past-tense for the Wolves and Orlando. The Clippers do just fine even as second fiddle. What you fail to address is the fact that these losses accompany a downturn in the economy and although t.v. ratings are up, other more direct and lucrative profits like ticket sales (and price), concessions, jersey sales, ect are down for many markets.

WadeKobe
11-18-2011, 08:07 PM
No, I didn't. And I would say "sacrifice" is completely the wrong term when talking about millionaires. The NBA is a good business, but it's made a couple of bad labor deals. Trying to fix a broken system is not being rewarded for a bad job. It is facing facts and repairing your investment so it can be profitable and grow.

This is 100% wrong. Just because the NBA is a good business does not make every NBA franchise a good business. You're 100% wrong, here.


"Saving" teams whose owners won't spend money they have or whose big decision maker is the antithesis as a GM of what he was as a player is not at all my point or concern. I just think it's fairly elementary that 50-50 is a reasonable 2 party agreement.


I've already said it should be 50/50. But 50/50 won't save teams that don't have money.



Exactly! And owners don't want to make this agreement. Players whine as if they are being shackled to a location, but they can go wherever they want. The sticking point is they don't want their salaries cut to go where they want to. Your club example is random and does not address the fact that the NBA functions as the company with each franchise being more like a branch. The club example works for overseas teams but not within the NBA.



No, not true, either. Sure, the club example is imperfect, but the fact is that these companies are not branches of the same company. They're separate companies working together and competing with one another. Why should players lose money to go play for another team? It's nonsense. This doesn't happen in the NFL or the MLB.

And it's fine that the owners don't want to make "this agreement." Great. Doesn't change the fact that what they want is to cover up bad business decisions - like starting a whole bunch of new, unprofitable franchises since 1988 without the talent needed to field solid teams.

Why do we pretend that 30 teams is a good thing just because people like them?

Anilyzer
11-18-2011, 08:15 PM
I don't really think this is realistic, however, I will say one thing: if they DID manage to put something like this together, and all the top players were involved, with solid rosters all the way down of good NBA'rs, I would DEFINITELY watch, and would DEFINITELY buy tickets to go and see it.

I would pay a fee to get cable access to it, and I think it would be really fun--it would be a brand new, flashy type of pro basketball.

It would also **** over the NBA incredibly badly, because they've inadvertently marketed these guys so heavily. What I mean is, the NBA has marketed ITSELF by saying "Lebron Lebron Lebron" or "Kobe Kobe Kobe", but if Kobe and Lebron walk, they take all the marketing that the NBA thought it was doing for itself.

So, on the one hand, the NBA felt free to use Lebron and Kobe in an unlimited way in order to promote itself, but the flipside is that they also promoted THEM even more.

Punk
11-18-2011, 08:54 PM
Lol lets see who has the balls to step up and put hundreds of millions of dollars on the line like the owners do. Lets see how fast people jump ship when some actually lose money like the owners do. Lol this will never work because you wont find many people willing to invest the kind of money like the owners of the nba have. Its easy to say lets start our own league but at the end of the day it will never happen.

Oh really? You do realize Addias, Nike and Under Armor are all brands that can put together money to make it happen?

beliges
11-18-2011, 09:24 PM
Oh really? You do realize Addias, Nike and Under Armor are all brands that can put together money to make it happen?

Why havent they? I mean if they could put together a basketball league that can compete with the NBA dont you think they would have done so by now?

Mishmin
11-18-2011, 09:28 PM
Not going to happen.

Evolution23
11-18-2011, 09:40 PM
I hate the owners as much as the next guy but this is not going to work.

topdog
11-18-2011, 10:31 PM
This is 100% wrong. Just because the NBA is a good business does not make every NBA franchise a good business. You're 100% wrong, here.

Oh yeah I see now that you used a percentage I see just how wrong I am - not 50% or 96.3% but 100%... Seriously, I have never said every franchise is a good business but expansion is good for business. The more markets you are physically in, the more attention and financial input your league gets. And, yes, there will be growing pains!



No, not true, either. Sure, the club example is imperfect, but the fact is that these companies are not branches of the same company. They're separate companies working together and competing with one another. Why should players lose money to go play for another team? It's nonsense. This doesn't happen in the NFL or the MLB.

They are franchises just like a Pizza Hut. I can put down $50,000 for the franchise title ad start competing with other Pizza Hut franchisees for business and profits. But, the Pizza Hut corporation isn't going to let me set up my shop right next to one of the other guys who paid them 50Gs. They have territory rules. Just the same, the NBA isn't going to let a couple teams simply outspend their fellow franchises and degrade the overall delivery and product. The Pizza Hut in Miami may have the best cooks and management, but I still can get a decent Pizza Hut pizza locally.


And it's fine that the owners don't want to make "this agreement." Great. Doesn't change the fact that what they want is to cover up bad business decisions - like starting a whole bunch of new, unprofitable franchises since 1988 without the talent needed to field solid teams.

Why do we pretend that 30 teams is a good thing just because people like them?

If you agree that 50-50 is fair, then how are they trying to cover thngs up? There's plenty of talent, just not when you're paying 3 guys $60M and not when you've got superstar calls knocking guys out of games. There's only one basketball, so reducing the number of teams will not make the product stronger, it will make the players weaker (8 players can't average 20pts).

As for the 30 teams, through 2009-10 which team had the higher single year attendance record: the Miami HEAT or the Minnesota Timberwolves?
Answer: Minnesota Timberwolves (they drew over 1 million fans in the inaugural season, over 200,000 more than Miami has ever drawn)

69centers
11-18-2011, 10:42 PM
ABA - reloaded

Toxeryll
11-18-2011, 10:44 PM
lol, not gonna happen

oak2455
11-18-2011, 10:57 PM
USFL:facepalm: Billy Hunter= FAIL

jiggin
11-18-2011, 11:17 PM
worst thing they can do is this... desertification of the union is only going to lead to more trouble for the players...their contacts are all NULL and VOID if they do that...

nice work morons...you don't work in business for a reason, most of you skipped college. You should probably not get involved and make such rash business decisions without talking to your agents and finding out what that means...especially those who like where they play and like the contracts they are currently on...

...lets see if this makes sense...you are pissed there is a lock out and you aren't getting paid, and you are pissed that you may have to take a bigger cut with the new deal...so you cancel your current contracts by decertifiying and give the owners more leverage to make up their OWN rules and then invite you to come back under those new rules. If you don't good luck trying to compete against them and all the NBA sponsors who have deals and contracts.

Uhhgg.....this is what you get when you put a bunch of loud mouth non-educated players in the business spotlight...

GoPacers33
11-18-2011, 11:18 PM
**** both sides

jiggin
11-18-2011, 11:18 PM
Oh really? You do realize Addias, Nike and Under Armor are all brands that can put together money to make it happen?

how many of them have contract with the NBA already....can't have both. NBA would **** a brick and go to court AND WIN with all those brands.

Come on...use your head, don't knee jerk react like the players are...

WadeKobe
11-18-2011, 11:20 PM
Oh yeah I see now that you used a percentage I see just how wrong I am - not 50% or 96.3% but 100%... Seriously, I have never said every franchise is a good business but expansion is good for business. The more markets you are physically in, the more attention and financial input your league gets. And, yes, there will be growing pains!




They are franchises just like a Pizza Hut. I can put down $50,000 for the franchise title ad start competing with other Pizza Hut franchisees for business and profits. But, the Pizza Hut corporation isn't going to let me set up my shop right next to one of the other guys who paid them 50Gs. They have territory rules. Just the same, the NBA isn't going to let a couple teams simply outspend their fellow franchises and degrade the overall delivery and product. The Pizza Hut in Miami may have the best cooks and management, but I still can get a decent Pizza Hut pizza locally.



If you agree that 50-50 is fair, then how are they trying to cover thngs up? There's plenty of talent, just not when you're paying 3 guys $60M and not when you've got superstar calls knocking guys out of games. There's only one basketball, so reducing the number of teams will not make the product stronger, it will make the players weaker (8 players can't average 20pts).

As for the 30 teams, through 2009-10 which team had the higher single year attendance record: the Miami HEAT or the Minnesota Timberwolves?
Answer: Minnesota Timberwolves (they drew over 1 million fans in the inaugural season, over 200,000 more than Miami has ever drawn)

I've already set the expansion date at 1988, and said that if Miami isn't cutting it then they could be one of the teams that has to go. I have no problem with that.

BALLER R
11-18-2011, 11:36 PM
the owners would shut that down quick

albertc86
11-18-2011, 11:38 PM
Makes no damn sense. They're not willing to accept any offers but they're willing to start up a new league wherein they'll be forced to take less money.

topdog
11-18-2011, 11:45 PM
I've already set the expansion date at 1988, and said that if Miami isn't cutting it then they could be one of the teams that has to go. I have no problem with that.

"If" when? When is this hypothetical decision time/criteria?

That's not my point though. My point i that right now there are some teams that are seen as "contenders" and "big draws" that all (or most... of) you contractionists wouldn't dare cut while citing teams that currently are paltry like Minnesota as topping the goodbye list. What is being missed is that there has been and likely still is a demand in these markets that could in fact exceed that of the current hot teams and is the whole reason for expansion in the first place.

Captain Moroni
11-18-2011, 11:58 PM
Id pay to watch...

Id rather watch this new players league than the NBA with replacement players...

talk about a snooze fest...

Really? You would pay to watch what? A whimsical group of NBA players in some random order in some random home city play against other NBA players in the same situation.....Hmmm what would be the point?

Captain Moroni
11-19-2011, 12:11 AM
Problems with a new league

1. Who will fund this new league? Certainly not the players or agents
2. What cities would be the headquarters for these teams? Are Philly fans going to root for NY because Philly has no team?
3. Will there be no "Home" teams and just a bunch of players traveling around playing other players doing the same.
4. Who is the market? Who is buying tickets to make this a viable business? I would pay to watch the derrick roses play the Dwayne wades like I would pay to see the harlem globetrotters against the generals, but I surely would not watch that again. Who would? After watching a game or 2, no one would care.
5. Who would be invited, who would be left out? Ouch like being picked last in Gym class.
6. Referee's? No way in a million years the NBA refs would touch this with a ten foot pole. College refs are busy with college ball, who calls these games? Or are the pickup games with no refs like no defense?
7. Loyalty? Who would be loyal to what team? No history, No loyalty, no league.

LA_Raiders
11-19-2011, 05:43 AM
go ahead *******

koreancabbage
11-19-2011, 10:53 AM
players are now finding it hard to find jobs now. players can't even find decent playing money overseas compared to the NBA's riches. they have to pay for the insurance themselves.

and if they get hurt overseas, wouldn't the NBA just void their salaries b/c of playing out of their contracts once everything is settled? iono- i'm just curious.

NBA players are going to be in a worse position after this lockout, and even during the lockout- playing for less money and less exposure in defunct leagues with players that suck. no real competition against B or even C/D- type players

Captain Moroni
11-19-2011, 11:15 AM
You are assuming a couple of things here that I disagree with. First, you are assuming that the NBA would even be interested in making a deal with the bottom half of the talent pool in the NBA.

You are also assuming that the NBA that couldn't make money with 30 teams and the top talent in the world will be able to make money with out the best players in the world.

And you are also assuming that fans value the brand more than the talent... which I believe to be highly inaccurate. That is something Stern would say... but it is not an accurate portrayal of reality IMO.

I disagree with this. It is the brand that the fans would root for. The fans might not like the team they are stuck with, but they would still follow the brand,
If the Boston Celtics ended up with Ray allen, some drafted rookies, and a bunch of fill ins, the real celtic fans would go see that team play. They would follow them on TV, maybe not to a fever pitch, but if that was what was available it would indeed be followed.
Did Bulls fans stop being Bulls fans when Jordan and Pippen were gone? The Bulls sucked, they were horrible, but fans still wore Bulls gear and watched the games and rooted for the franchise.
The Knicks have been horrendous for over a decade. Do you think the fans are not tough enough to wait it out a little longer? The new Knick players could actually be good enough to be in first place. If you were a Knicks fan would you watch a team with Landry Fields, Iman Shumpert and Chauncy Billups if they went 18-6 out of the gate and led the division? you would,
No one is rooting for the LeBron James southwest bandits. They would have their interest peaked but as far as a fandom? There would be none.

Captain Moroni
11-19-2011, 11:20 AM
I hope they try to start their own league. I will laugh at their failure.

It would indeed be failure, and it would make them look silly. Billy Hunter has no role right now other than the guy who killed NBA basketball. He has to say something, but starting up a barnstorming league with no actual goal other than to show fans some basketball action is pointless and I am with you, start it up so we all can watch it explode in your face.

Captain Moroni
11-19-2011, 11:30 AM
Get rid of the Clippers.
Get rid of the Kings.
Get rid of the Magic.
Get rid of the T'Wolves.
Get rid of the Hornets.
Get rid of the Grizzlies.
Get rid of the Bobcats.

I think that's a very fair start. From there, the league might once again become profitable.[/QUOTE]

So your idea is to eliminate 7 teams. So 84 NBA players are out of a job. And you think a players union or "Association" is going to be OK with that?
Next, There are now seven ownership groups that no longer own anything, or no longer have something of value. Take the worst NBA team as far as profitability. Even that team would sell for 200 plus million dollars. Do you think for one second that it would even be legal to do this? On what grounds?
Your idea is not well thought out and would be illegal too boot.
Obviously you dont live in Minnesota, Charlotte, Memphis, Orlando, Sacramento or New orleans. BTW after Jimmer got drafted, Sacramento sold out every single season ticket. You just assume they have no fan interest.
Seven empty arena's, thousands of people out of jobs, including
NBA Coaches
NBA referee's (Would not need as many with 7 less teams)
Scouts
Cheerleaders/dance teams
Mascots

And what of the thousands of restaurant owners, Bar owners, Retail shops, that depend on the NBA team next to them to survive. Ludicrous.

LakersIn5
11-19-2011, 11:37 AM
So your idea is to eliminate 7 teams. So 84 NBA players are out of a job. And you think a players union or "Association" is going to be OK with that?
Next, There are now seven ownership groups that no longer own anything, or no longer have something of value. Take the worst NBA team as far as profitability. Even that team would sell for 200 plus million dollars. Do you think for one second that it would even be legal to do this? On what grounds?
Your idea is not well thought out and would be illegal too boot.
Obviously you dont live in Minnesota, Charlotte, Memphis, Orlando, Sacramento or New orleans. BTW after Jimmer got drafted, Sacramento sold out every single season ticket. You just assume they have no fan interest.

heres an idea :p
put those players in a draft. obviously not all 84 will be drafted by the remaining 23 teams so that just eliminates the garbage players (a.k.a the entire bobcats team lol) use the current draft order. dwight goes to cleveland, cp3 to uta, blake to toronto, etc. that improves the parity of the league. :p

Supa
11-19-2011, 11:40 AM
If it's easy to start a new league, it would be a real option, but it's not.

I would like to see Hunter try. My bet is that Hunter will be fired before a new league can even become mildly functional.

---

Captain Moroni
11-19-2011, 11:50 AM
I don't really think this is realistic, however, I will say one thing: if they DID manage to put something like this together, and all the top players were involved, with solid rosters all the way down of good NBA'rs, I would DEFINITELY watch, and would DEFINITELY buy tickets to go and see it.

I would pay a fee to get cable access to it, and I think it would be really fun--it would be a brand new, flashy type of pro basketball.

It would also **** over the NBA incredibly badly, because they've inadvertently marketed these guys so heavily. What I mean is, the NBA has marketed ITSELF by saying "Lebron Lebron Lebron" or "Kobe Kobe Kobe", but if Kobe and Lebron walk, they take all the marketing that the NBA thought it was doing for itself.

So, on the one hand, the NBA felt free to use Lebron and Kobe in an unlimited way in order to promote itself, but the flipside is that they also promoted THEM even more.

And what if the super team you rooted for sucked? What if it went 2-15 out of the gate? Would you walk around town with your Atlanta Dunkers Tshirt all proud? Would you really care to follow this product if it sucked? Some teams will dominate, some will suck. No rivalries, no hated teams like the Dallas Cowboys, NY Yankees, and Miami Heat to get the fans excited about a win. It would just be a glorified pick up game with all star talent. I am a huge fan, but I would watch a game with peaked interest and then I would walk away like 95% of all NBA fans.
Yes they marketed Kobe, and LeBron, but they also marketed MJ, Kareem, Shaq, and Ewing as well. and without that the current players would have walked into a league where the top salary was like 6 million not 20 million.
You state your opinions, but they have no factual basis. The NBA machine created the players, not the other way around. Soon, LeBron, Kobe, Melo will all be gone and another crop of players will emerge. The NBA will still be here, those players were just temporary entertainment nothing more.
Do you think bulls fans care that a 50 year old Michael Jordan pulled his achilles in a pickup game? They would have in 1992 but they could care less now.

effen5
11-19-2011, 11:51 AM
lol @ Hunter what a ****in idiot.

Seriously, this whole lockout has been ****in hilarious at how poorly it went. Players should have taken the last deal but instead, they are missing paychecks now.

effen5
11-19-2011, 11:52 AM
And what if the super team you rooted for sucked? What if it went 2-15 out of the gate? Would you walk around town with your Atlanta Dunkers Tshirt all proud? Would you really care to follow this product if it sucked? Some teams will dominate, some will suck. No rivalries, no hated teams like the Dallas Cowboys, NY Yankees, and Miami Heat to get the fans excited about a win. It would just be a glorified pick up game with all star talent. I am a huge fan, but I would watch a game with peaked interest and then I would walk away like 95% of all NBA fans.
Yes they marketed Kobe, and LeBron, but they also marketed MJ, Kareem, Shaq, and Ewing as well. and without that the current players would have walked into a league where the top salary was like 6 million not 20 million.
You state your opinions, but they have no factual basis. The NBA machine created the players, not the other way around. Soon, LeBron, Kobe, Melo will all be gone and another crop of players will emerge. The NBA will still be here, those players were just temporary entertainment nothing more.
Do you think bulls fans care that a 50 year old Michael Jordan pulled his achilles in a pickup game? They would have in 1992 but they could care less now.

This man has logic.

I applaud you. :clap:

Captain Moroni
11-19-2011, 11:55 AM
heres an idea :p
put those players in a draft. obviously not all 84 will be drafted by the remaining 23 teams so that just eliminates the garbage players (a.k.a the entire bobcats team lol) use the current draft order. dwight goes to cleveland, cp3 to uta, blake to toronto, etc. that improves the parity of the league. :p

Hey Einstein, The other 23 teams would have full Rosters. The point is that after the better players were placed on the remaining teams there would be 84 players with no roster spots.

Captain Moroni
11-19-2011, 12:03 PM
lol @ Hunter what a ****in idiot.

Seriously, this whole lockout has been ****in hilarious at how poorly it went. Players should have taken the last deal but instead, they are missing paychecks now.

Just wait until those paychecks start adding up. These guys are going to start hurting.
I have a Nephew who plays in the NFL. This is a true story, he told me. As a rookie, after a big win on MNF he was invited to a party. Booze everywhere and hot beautiful women. (Professionals). He was ushered into the kitchen of a huge house and handed a stack of bills. $10 thousand. And told by the rich veteran "Enjoy yourself"
That is how so many of these professional athlete operate. But now their is no money coming in. No parties to be had. It's home with the family. I bet that is just killing them. Only a matter of time until they start to crumble.

oldfishermen
11-19-2011, 12:29 PM
Hunter’s thought of the players starting their own league is worth “considering”. The players can use their business management degrees to help them successfully run their own league. You say the players do not have any business management education let alone a degree.

With all of this free time the players now have, here is an idea. The players should go back to school and get an education. They could use their scholarships to earn a free degree in business management. You say they threw away their scholarships and free education to get paid to play a game.

That explains why the players threw away the game they got paid to play and are now getting a free education in business management, the hard way.

Lesion number 1. Never go out of your way to start a lawsuit.

Lesion number 2. Never trust any lawyer that suggests starting a lawsuit over negotiating. He is not working in YOUR best interest. Their goal is to drain every last dollar out of your bank account they can get their hands on. Your lawyers win even when you lose.

Lesion number 3. Our civil legal system is not designed to determine who is right and who is wrong. It is designed so the side that spends the most money most often wins, or is awarded the better settlement.

Lesion number 4. The rules of the civil legal system have been manipulated for many many decades by these same lawyers to achieve the best results for themselves, not for their clients.

For the players to start their own league, they will need to hire lawyers that specialize in business management. This would create more legal battles between the players and owners. See business management lesions #1-4.

Captain Moroni
11-19-2011, 01:46 PM
Hunter’s thought of the players starting their own league is worth “considering”. The players can use their business management degrees to help them successfully run their own league. You say the players do not have any business management education let alone a degree.

With all of this free time the players now have, here is an idea. The players should go back to school and get an education. They could use their scholarships to earn a free degree in business management. You say they threw away their scholarships and free education to get paid to play a game.

That explains why the players threw away the game they got paid to play and are now getting a free education in business management, the hard way.

Lesion number 1. Never go out of your way to start a lawsuit.

Lesion number 2. Never trust any lawyer that suggests starting a lawsuit over negotiating. He is not working in YOUR best interest. Their goal is to drain every last dollar out of your bank account they can get their hands on. Your lawyers win even when you lose.

Lesion number 3. Our civil legal system is not designed to determine who is right and who is wrong. It is designed so the side that spends the most money most often wins, or is awarded the better settlement.

Lesion number 4. The rules of the civil legal system have been manipulated for many many decades by these same lawyers to achieve the best results for themselves, not for their clients.

For the players to start their own league, they will need to hire lawyers that specialize in business management. This would create more legal battles between the players and owners. See business management lesions #1-4.

very well said.

ink
11-19-2011, 01:56 PM
btw oldfisherman, good argument but it's LESSON not lesion. A lesion is a scab. ;)


le·sion
   [lee-zhuhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
an injury; hurt; wound.
2.
Pathology . any localized, abnormal structural change in the body.
3.
Plant Pathology . any localized, defined area of diseased tissue, as a spot, canker, blister, or scab.

roshan3ai
11-19-2011, 02:02 PM
:laugh2: We are so ****ed. Don't even have hope for a shortened season anymore

oldfishermen
11-19-2011, 02:03 PM
Ink, thank you for the friendly tune-up. I am an old man and still making a few too many mistakes. I made one more mistake in my post. The business management “lessons” the players are going to receive from the owners will not be free.

ink
11-19-2011, 02:03 PM
players are now finding it hard to find jobs now. players can't even find decent playing money overseas compared to the NBA's riches. they have to pay for the insurance themselves.

and if they get hurt overseas, wouldn't the NBA just void their salaries b/c of playing out of their contracts once everything is settled? iono- i'm just curious.

NBA players are going to be in a worse position after this lockout, and even during the lockout- playing for less money and less exposure in defunct leagues with players that suck. no real competition against B or even C/D- type players

They're gambling everything on an anti-trust decision in their favour which will force the NBA owners back to the table. If they win their case (which could take a long time and kill a season or two) the basis would be that the league didn't negotiate in good faith. If that's found to be true, the players would regain some leverage and force the owners to give ground because if/when they returned to the bargaining table the owners would have to show more flexibility. It's all hypothetical because there has been no such ruling yet and may never be.

It's a risky move because the anti-trust case could also go against them and they would then completely cave, having no union to give them the little collective strength they already had. In that case, the owners could pretty much dictate whatever CBA terms they like. So, we're into really dubious territory and the fact that players are only now talking about the "possibility" of starting a league shows how completely lost they really are. I'm sure since we all see it, many of them must also see how truly ****ed they are. If their only hope now is an anti-trust ruling and a fantasy league they are in a seriously weak position.

pd1dish
11-19-2011, 02:06 PM
does the union not understand that the money has to come from somewhere? how are they going to pay all these players, the facilities, and all the expenses required to run an organization? its going to take investors. oh wait, that sounds like some other current situation....its called owners. theyre just going to get a new set of owners and why would this set view the league/business any differently from the current set?

ink
11-19-2011, 02:07 PM
Ink, thank you for the friendly tune-up. I am an old man and still making a few too many mistakes. I made one more mistake in my post. The business management “lessons” the players are going to receive from the owners will not be free.

Hey there, just a small point and I didn't want it to unravel your post, which had great points. I just thought "lesion" was funny. But I totally agree that civil law is not the way to go for the players. It's absurd and it establishes a precedent that I don't even think judges would want to touch. Wouldn't you say that they would prefer to see commercial enterprises handle their own internal issues unless there is true injustice happening? I don't see any real injustice here. Not at all.

Patman
11-19-2011, 04:31 PM
So Guys that had an issue with 1-2 % of 4Billions now want to start a new league which will make less money then the NBA did, maybe after a few Years they would be on a good level, but before that they would lose a lot of money. And would they put their own money on the line as startup investment? If not they will just replace the old owners with new ones. And talking about bad deals, in the beginning there probably wouldn't be guarenteed contracts.

I think the longer this goes on the more the players realize that they now loose more and more leverage, if the anti trust lawsuit does not go their way. The Owners won't miss the income from the NBA as much as the players will miss their paycheck.

In the end this whole situation hurts the NBA and they probably will loose the momentum they had, with the renewed Lakers/Celtics rivalery, the Heat and the huge amount of young talent.

ghettosean
11-19-2011, 05:31 PM
In all honesty I don't understand why everyone is being so b*tchy towards the players I mean lets think about the investment here... Start a league with the BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD. How can you not get people to invest in that especially since the NBA had it's highest ratings in history.

Further more they do not have to make stupid moves like the owners did... If the players want they can just start a league in the cities with big markets and expand from there if necessary.

I'm not saying that they should make this move but I don't think it will be a complete failure like most do. I think most people here are speaking on emotions and not thinking the actual business decisions through. I want the NBA back like everyone else does but if your going to be making posts and replies try to give some real reason as to why they would fail. I only see pluses for them and if the players are going to be paying for the league and it's profitable (like the big market teams in the NBA). They will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Just my thoughts.

still a fan
11-19-2011, 08:29 PM
I want a league to happen so badly, I want them to invest so much money, I want the these players who are willing to leave 354 behind to get hurt so badly.

It would be so hypocritical to start a league when you didn't sign the CBA because it hurts the future NBA players? So a league of stars, maybe 8 team, what about the rest?

So here is my plan, let them start their own league these what 96 to 128 players and then all us fans, don't show up, don't watch, because what new network would air this new league, and you going to pay your local cable now more money for the privalege.

So the fans actually have all the say, invest, go ahead I dare you, then watch it all fall apart.

And to the poster who said he'd watch over watching scabs, I'd say the NBA with the 354 players looking for work who got left behind and all the rookies I'd say the NBA would do just fine. In a few years these young stars and rookies will be the next generation stars anyway.

ABA had some really great players, believe there is nothing like the NBA its every kids dream.

NBA_Starter
11-19-2011, 08:31 PM
Billy Hunter is a bum!

Cal827
11-19-2011, 08:43 PM
heres an idea :p
put those players in a draft. obviously not all 84 will be drafted by the remaining 23 teams so that just eliminates the garbage players (a.k.a the entire bobcats team lol) use the current draft order. dwight goes to cleveland, cp3 to uta, blake to toronto, etc. that improves the parity of the league. :p

I like it, I voting for you to be the next Comish :D

On a more serious note, Hunter has got to be one of the biggest morons on the planet. Don't these guys use past examples as a precedent? In the NHL, the Owners fought for more parity from the league (reducing contracts, and whatnot). The Players didn't want to budge. Look what happened in the end. The players had to take a decent pay cut and the hard cap was added, and a season of paychecks were lost. Which eventually led to the NHL player rep losing his job. He should have told the players this so something would be going. I'm for them but they really should have taken that 50-50 deal. The lack of pay is going to hit hard for many of these players, and they are gonna get mad.

pistonsfanomg
11-19-2011, 08:45 PM
fcuk the owners and stern

:dance:



lol

This was a funny comment... I logged in just to put my 2 cents in I wish it was a like button because this made my day.

Go Owners and Players! Keep this going lol

pistonsfanomg
11-19-2011, 08:46 PM
All posturing and nonsense. A deal will be hammered out last minute.

lol You wish.

pistonsfanomg
11-19-2011, 08:49 PM
Hunter is just trying to scare the owners for a better deal

Its not going to happen lol

Hawkeye15
11-19-2011, 08:50 PM
Hunter should have been fired 2 or more months ago. Now he is even saying this? The only reason basketball players make millions is because of what the owners provide them. Who is going to pay for facilities? Who is going to get the HUGE network deals that provide so much income? Who is going to manage the teams, and hire the hundreds of employees it takes to run a team, and pay them? Who is going to market the league?

The owners are laughing their ***** off when Hunter, or any player says this. Go for it. Good luck making a hundred million dollars star player....

sep11ie
11-19-2011, 09:03 PM
I don't think it would be a bore fest with replacement players. It would probably be a more fundamentally strong league with the super athletic players that can't seem to make the next step around to add the spark. I'd watch.

pistonsfanomg
11-19-2011, 09:04 PM
Ill watch it but it will FAIL....

Would it even have a major sponsor?

I mean Nike and Adidas is out of the question (I think)

Rocco Gandolfo
11-19-2011, 11:56 PM
No way nike pepsi coke budweiser or mcdonalds touch this

ClippersE.G
11-20-2011, 02:18 AM
This guy is delusional. I hope he tries it. There are thousands of players each year who graduate from college who never make it to the NBA. There are even more players not in the NBA all over the U.S. **** all these players leave. The NBA will rebuild. Ooooh man how I wish they try and start their own league and watch the bust run of of the mill AND1 game that it will become...how I wish they did it

ClippersE.G
11-20-2011, 02:20 AM
I don't think it would be a bore fest with replacement players. It would probably be a more fundamentally strong league with the super athletic players that can't seem to make the next step around to add the spark. I'd watch.

Exactly. Every fan of the NBA will watch. Real basketball fans. The only people that would watch these joke leagues and pick up games these guys would partake in would probably be people who are loyal to one player, because rooting for any of these guys would remove whatever allegiance they had to a city, a state, and NBA franchise.

Rocco Gandolfo
11-20-2011, 02:37 AM
Exactly. Every fan of the NBA will watch. Real basketball fans. The only people that would watch these joke leagues and pick up games these guys would partake in would probably be people who are loyal to one player, because rooting for any of these guys would remove whatever allegiance they had to a city, a state, and NBA franchise.

Exactly great point

KingPosey
11-20-2011, 02:55 AM
Lol lets see who has the balls to step up and put hundreds of millions of dollars on the line like the owners do. Lets see how fast people jump ship when some actually lose money like the owners do. Lol this will never work because you wont find many people willing to invest the kind of money like the owners of the nba have. Its easy to say lets start our own league but at the end of the day it will never happen.

I can think of several instances off the top of my head of guys, or groups, that have been trying to buy a major sports franchise but have been shut out by existing owners. If they get ALL the product, there is people to assume the "risk".

But I dont see this happening at all.

However if they did set up a "loose" schedule and league, they could make money in the short term, that I do not doubt. If it was a traveling 10 team league with only the best talent, wherever they go they will sell every seat, people would by the jerseys like crazy as a novelty, and someone would televise it for a bunch of money. Maybe not 100s of millions, but millions would exchange hands.

iam brett favre
11-20-2011, 03:06 AM
Someone needs to put a bullet in this *******s skull or there won't be an NBA for at least a year.
Really though there is a 0% chance that would ever work. It would be like the And 1 street basketball thats on espn 2

keymax
11-20-2011, 03:14 AM
Even if the players somehow(which won't happen) start their own league, it won't last long IMO, even if all "stars" join this new league.
This league simply lacks history with all the rivalries the NBA has. The players play out their careers and then they're gone, what remains? The franchise.
A new league would have a Harlem Globetrotters feel to it. It would be nice to see the players once or twice, but a 60 game schedule? Heck no.
Maybe I'm in the minority about this one, but I don't like to watch the Thunder for this exact same reason.

iam brett favre
11-20-2011, 03:19 AM
I really hope both owners and players lose in the end. I hope the players run off and try to start their own league and it doesnt work and the owners lose tons of money...**** the NBA

Oldmantrash
11-20-2011, 03:51 AM
If it was about the players and not the teams, then why didn't all Cav fans become heat fans when Lebron left.

We root for our teams first, a threat of a new league is just ridiculous, and makes Billy Hunter seem stupid.

beliges
11-20-2011, 07:55 AM
If it was about the players and not the teams, then why didn't all Cav fans become heat fans when Lebron left.

We root for our teams first, a threat of a new league is just ridiculous, and makes Billy Hunter seem stupid.

Thats because Billy Hunter is stupid. He will not resume his current position in representing the players once a deal is brokered among the players and the owners. He caused too much turmoil to his players by disallowing them to vote individually and causing the players to lose significant amounts of money. Only a matter of time.

blahblahyoutoo
11-20-2011, 09:31 AM
haha bro you think the owners are the only billion airs on the planet...

you seriously think there's no billion airs on the planet that if Lebron and Kobe ask them to help promote something they wouldn't be apart of that oppurtunity

FYI, billionaires is one word, spelled like that.

blahblahyoutoo
11-20-2011, 09:34 AM
The fact that you have continually defended poor business practices in this thread is really irritating. Owners should get rewarded for starting a poor business in a poor location?

Why should we reward a team for starting in Minneapolis Minnesota, and then losing money? Why should we reward a team for still existing in Los Angeles even though it can't hang? Why should we reward a team for choosing Orlando - which has no other sports teams - as its location?

This is ludicrous. Both sides are wrong, but the reality is that if this were the real world, a lot of these owners would be filing for bankruptcy and figuring out a new investment somewhere else. Why are we not asking they do that, now?

Get rid of the Clippers.
Get rid of the Kings.
Get rid of the Magic.
Get rid of the T'Wolves.
Get rid of the Hornets.
Get rid of the Grizzlies.
Get rid of the Bobcats.

I think that's a very fair start. From there, the league might once again become profitable.

again, how old are you?

Rocco Gandolfo
11-20-2011, 10:48 AM
If it was about the players and not the teams, then why didn't all Cav fans become heat fans when Lebron left.

We root for our teams first, a threat of a new league is just ridiculous, and makes Billy Hunter seem stupid.

That is the point that we all have to see. We root for the franchise not the player

JayHunter
11-20-2011, 06:00 PM
yea right Billy

ink
11-20-2011, 06:50 PM
Thats because Billy Hunter is stupid. He will not resume his current position in representing the players once a deal is brokered among the players and the owners. He caused too much turmoil to his players by disallowing them to vote individually and causing the players to lose significant amounts of money. Only a matter of time.

It's inevitable. He's going to go just like the NHLPA head went down during the NHL lockout. Eventually the players will start asking a LOT of questions especially if/when their anti-trust case goes nowhere fast.

ink
11-20-2011, 06:53 PM
again, how old are you?

Hey don't you understand logic when you see it? lol.

Mother bugs you. Get rid of her.
Dad bugs you. Get rid of him.
GF bugs you. Get rid of her.
Friends bug you. Get rid of them.

Don't actually ever try to make things functional.

How to Live Successfully 101.

Cal827
11-20-2011, 07:05 PM
The funniest thing is, I could care less about players wanting to come and go from random places... the main thing here has to be revenue sharing.. It's helped the NHL weed out the teams that have fans but were struggling financially (Sabres), with the cities that aren't genuinely interested in the sport (Atlanta, Phoenix).

Revenue Sharing
50-50 split or
3-1 Lux Tax (which further goes into revenue sharing)
The NBA players' salaries drop about 13% and teams like LA/Chicago are likely going to have to give into the sharing twice. That should be enough to keep the teams with genuinely interested fans afloat. Anyone else, they could consider moving to another city.

I just worry that after this lockout, that the fans will stop showing up (kinda like in Baseball when they had the strike).

I cannot wait to see this moron get fired. I honestly can't believe that this guy with another sport as a clear example of what happens during a lockout, still fu*ked up.

blahblahyoutoo
11-21-2011, 09:00 AM
Hey don't you understand logic when you see it? lol.

Mother bugs you. Get rid of her.
Dad bugs you. Get rid of him.
GF bugs you. Get rid of her.
Friends bug you. Get rid of them.

Don't actually ever try to make things functional.

How to Live Successfully 101.

he'd be great as a italian crime boss.
:D

Ironman5219
11-21-2011, 10:27 AM
I have a better idea, Billy Hunter shut the **** up!!!!!! Sign the deal and lets play basketball!!!!!

fadedmario
11-21-2011, 03:05 PM
Yeah, start your own league. See how that works out for you. lol - I root for the team, not the players. I will always be a Pistons fan but will not follow the NBA anymore until this group of players are gone. NBA players are the worst kind of people in pro sports. See you in 2021 NBA. I can live without it. And from the looks of things - There's a TON of people that feel just like me. Enjoy being a 2nd rate league when basketball starts back up. I'm done with this NBA trash. Bring on the replacement players. At least they'd have heart.

beliges
11-21-2011, 03:47 PM
It's inevitable. He's going to go just like the NHLPA head went down during the NHL lockout. Eventually the players will start asking a LOT of questions especially if/when their anti-trust case goes nowhere fast.

I agree and this will happen because their claims on this anti-trust case are without merit. They have no legal foundation or precedent on their side and this case will ultimately fail, its just sad that we have to be deprived of basketball for however long it takes. This entire ordeal could be taken care of with some common sense. The players feel as though its their right to play in the NBA when in fact its only a privilege.

Corey
11-21-2011, 06:28 PM
Yeah, start your own league. See how that works out for you. lol - I root for the team, not the players. I will always be a Pistons fan but will not follow the NBA anymore until this group of players are gone. NBA players are the worst kind of people in pro sports. See you in 2021 NBA. I can live without it. And from the looks of things - There's a TON of people that feel just like me. Enjoy being a 2nd rate league when basketball starts back up. I'm done with this NBA trash. Bring on the replacement players. At least they'd have heart.
They'll miss you.

3XDouble
11-21-2011, 07:06 PM
Yeah, start your own league. See how that works out for you. lol - I root for the team, not the players. I will always be a Pistons fan but will not follow the NBA anymore until this group of players are gone. NBA players are the worst kind of people in pro sports. See you in 2021 NBA. I can live without it. And from the looks of things - There's a TON of people that feel just like me. Enjoy being a 2nd rate league when basketball starts back up. I'm done with this NBA trash. Bring on the replacement players. At least they'd have heart.

Can someone tell us the legal process for bringing in replacement players?

CousinsEvansDUO
11-21-2011, 07:36 PM
Wade> You:
Why remove teams that have a history of success, just because they are going through a rebuilding process. Does that mean future teams that go through rebuilding process should get cut as well? Every team goes through a phase of losing and rebuilding. Including the heat.

mlisica19
11-21-2011, 08:09 PM
If Billy Hunter truly wanted to jump start a new basketball league, I bet he could. He created the WHL and helped jump start the WHL as well as other great things.

Find owners, create teams, attract players... this would take at least until March. So that is the hard part. But I bet you can find at least 10 suitors desiring to own a pro bball team.

They need the right players to make this right... would some of these stars and nba players do this? Dwayne looks pretty mad at the NBA, imagine if the this newly created league (lets call it the NBL- National Basketball League), got players like Dwayne Wade.
I am sure you can get a few big name players to attract fans.

I mean, do you guys like basketball or the NBA?

If there is a min. 10 team league with some superstars... I would watch it.

Make it a 40 game league between Late March and Early July. More games during the week, but a bigger roster allowed. Younger players allowed (18+). They would get a 1 year contract. Denis Rodman is looking to play again in a pro league, but no NBA team wanted him. I am sure one of these teams would have no problem signing him...

Its unlikely, but like Hunter has proven in the past... ITS POSSIBLE.

mlisica19
11-21-2011, 08:15 PM
They can def get the players and superstars on their side... they can def get at least 10 teams together and like Hunter said there are facilities to play at.

Its no NBA but its something. Its a shed of light in a dark room. Wouldnt you rather have such a league than no basketball at all...

What station would show it... NBC is possible. VS... Its a growing station. Especially under NBC sports.

mlisica19
11-21-2011, 08:24 PM
Lol lets see who has the balls to step up and put hundreds of millions of dollars on the line like the owners do. Lets see how fast people jump ship when some actually lose money like the owners do. Lol this will never work because you wont find many people willing to invest the kind of money like the owners of the nba have. Its easy to say lets start our own league but at the end of the day it will never happen.

To be an NBA owner, you must be a billionaire.
They can create a league in which millionaires can become owners. Or a group of millionaires become team owners in this new league.

The WHA did it... so why not.


They can play at smaller arenas, pay their players less and still make a money with all the possibility of starting something REAL serious here.

Why would the players take less? Cuz some of these guys are looking for any job they can. Pay the bigger superstars like Wade or anyone more money obviously...

Hawkeye15
11-21-2011, 08:28 PM
Wade> You:
Why remove teams that have a history of success, just because they are going through a rebuilding process. Does that mean future teams that go through rebuilding process should get cut as well? Every team goes through a phase of losing and rebuilding. Including the heat.

exactly. If this were a few years ago, when the Heat won 15 games, would his opinion be the same? I don't think so.

arkanian215
11-21-2011, 08:29 PM
A league and its owners will bleed money out of the *** if they have 20-25 teams renting w/o any real estate ownership possibility in the near future.

Hawkeye15
11-21-2011, 08:34 PM
Who pays for the facilities?
Who pays for the marketing?
Who pays for the huge network deals that rake in a heavy percentage of income in the NBA?
Who will pay the players salaries?
Who will pay for the cost of flying 25-30 people multiple times?
Who will pay all the office people, the ones who sell the tickets, and handle the busy work?
Who will pay the concession stand workers? The parking lot attendants? The cheerleaders? The hundreds of other employees involved in every game?
Who will pay for the uniforms?
Who will pay for all the people who maintain the facilities?

This is just the scratch of the surface. Hunter, and the players (with an average college education of a year or two, usually in a waste of a degree, that is what athletes do a lot of the time), have NO IDEA how much capital and negotiating there is involved in running a sustained league.

Go for it. When Amare said it, understandable, he has a 12th grade education and doesn't know what a business is. When Hunter says it, the owners are laughing their ***** off, knowing they are running away with it right now.

3XDouble
11-21-2011, 08:54 PM
If Billy Hunter truly wanted to jump start a new basketball league, I bet he could. He created the WHL and helped jump start the WHL as well as other great things.

Find owners, create teams, attract players... this would take at least until March. So that is the hard part. But I bet you can find at least 10 suitors desiring to own a pro bball team.

They need the right players to make this right... would some of these stars and nba players do this? Dwayne looks pretty mad at the NBA, imagine if the this newly created league (lets call it the NBL- National Basketball League), got players like Dwayne Wade.
I am sure you can get a few big name players to attract fans.

I mean, do you guys like basketball or the NBA?

If there is a min. 10 team league with some superstars... I would watch it.

Make it a 40 game league between Late March and Early July. More games during the week, but a bigger roster allowed. Younger players allowed (18+). They would get a 1 year contract. Denis Rodman is looking to play again in a pro league, but no NBA team wanted him. I am sure one of these teams would have no problem signing him...

Its unlikely, but like Hunter has proven in the past... ITS POSSIBLE.

What an absolute catastrophe this would be. For starters, two-thirds of the current players would be out of a job. The remaining players would we working for half or less.

NYKalltheway
11-21-2011, 09:20 PM
If Billy Hunter truly wanted to jump start a new basketball league, I bet he could. He created the WHL and helped jump start the WHL as well as other great things.

Find owners, create teams, attract players... this would take at least until March. So that is the hard part. But I bet you can find at least 10 suitors desiring to own a pro bball team.

They need the right players to make this right... would some of these stars and nba players do this? Dwayne looks pretty mad at the NBA, imagine if the this newly created league (lets call it the NBL- National Basketball League), got players like Dwayne Wade.
I am sure you can get a few big name players to attract fans.

I mean, do you guys like basketball or the NBA?

If there is a min. 10 team league with some superstars... I would watch it.

Make it a 40 game league between Late March and Early July. More games during the week, but a bigger roster allowed. Younger players allowed (18+). They would get a 1 year contract. Denis Rodman is looking to play again in a pro league, but no NBA team wanted him. I am sure one of these teams would have no problem signing him...

Its unlikely, but like Hunter has proven in the past... ITS POSSIBLE.

100% agreed...

NBA has messed with people's heads... Basketball is a team sport, requires a few players, some arenas and you can sell tv rights if the product is good.

You do NOT need what the NBA has at this point. You don't need all the extras. Just arenas (not necessarilly 20,000 ones), owners, players, basketballs, coaches, refs and some other people that are involved in the running of the team and the arena. You don't need TV channels, reporters etc for basketball teams, that's a waste of money.

Plus if this would be a normal league with not more than 14-16 teams, not play each team more than twice, not more than two games a week, no salary cap - no draft, just free market, I'm pretty sure Nike, Adidas, Reebok and even companies like Microsoft and Apple would invest in it and make transfers for guys like Lebron, Kobe, Rose, Howard etc, covering their contract costs in return for advertising in the arena etc

Immediate success really, amongst BASKETBALL FANS. NBA would soon force to disband if this was successful for over 2 years and had players like Wade, Rose and Durant playing for these teams. Plus the setup of the league and teams would be such, that fans would be more attached to the teams. More attachement, more passion = fans are not customers but FANS.

It can work if players want to play basketball and there are rich people out there who want to be part of real basketball.

still a fan
11-21-2011, 09:42 PM
Can someone tell us the legal process for bringing in replacement players?

Sure:

Its a Federal Law that a business can operate with replacements under a lockout, they are actually calle temporary replacements.

-NBA would have to prove players are not negotiating in good faith
-NBA would have to file an impasse with the labor board
-If the Labor board rules the players are not negotiating in good faith replacements then can happen
-Replacements then can take the last offer in negotiations by the owners
-Players can sue but it will be futile, do to Federal law.

Just a note, when LT crossed the line in the NFL I was very interested and it was exciting watching him play with clearly inferior players to his statue.

But it was fun non the less and fans packed the stadium to watch.

So the key is which star has the balls to cross and the rest will come tumbling down.

I"d love replacements because you'd see some very competitive basketball from very good athletes and you might even get a player or two to emerge when he doesn't get a chance today.

Everyone realize the only reason John Starks had the career he had coming out of the D-League was because he could not get cut do to injury and the rest is history as they say.

shen
11-21-2011, 09:49 PM
Dumbest thing ever. Not a single player would make even a twentieth of what they do in the NBA. So stop being dip ***** and complaining about half a percent when you think taking 5% as much is good idea. Horrible thing and prove Hunter is a dumb *** as well as every player. At this point I vote let the league fold and in about 3 months when every player outside top 50 is begging for change try again.

Stephen A Smith got it right when he said players are trying to pretend they have leverage that they don't. That can't make anywhere near what they make in the NBA even after owners CBA proposal. I don't know who is trying to convince players of these dumb *** ideas but they are clearly trying to get rid of basketball in the USA (and Toronto).

3XDouble
11-21-2011, 11:07 PM
Sure:

Its a Federal Law that a business can operate with replacements under a lockout, they are actually calle temporary replacements.

-NBA would have to prove players are not negotiating in good faith
-NBA would have to file an impasse with the labor board
-If the Labor board rules the players are not negotiating in good faith replacements then can happen
-Replacements then can take the last offer in negotiations by the owners
-Players can sue but it will be futile, do to Federal law.

Just a note, when LT crossed the line in the NFL I was very interested and it was exciting watching him play with clearly inferior players to his statue.

But it was fun non the less and fans packed the stadium to watch.

So the key is which star has the balls to cross and the rest will come tumbling down.

I"d love replacements because you'd see some very competitive basketball from very good athletes and you might even get a player or two to emerge when he doesn't get a chance today.

Everyone realize the only reason John Starks had the career he had coming out of the D-League was because he could not get cut do to injury and the rest is history as they say.

Thanks. I am with you in supporting replacement players should it be necessary. At this point, as much as I want a season, I think many NBA players and other professional athletes need a dose of reality. When getting 100% of the profit is considered a "give back", it's time for a reality check. And, now they think they should run the leauge too. The players should be grateful for the way salaries have continued to sky rocket and yet they b!^ch and talk about protecting future players. Can they really be that stupid.

OldSchool
11-21-2011, 11:17 PM
Thanks. I am with you in supporting replacement players should it be necessary. At this point, as much as I want a season, I think many NBA players and other professional athletes need a dose of reality. When getting 100% of the profit is considered a "give back", it's time for a reality check. And, now they think they should run the leauge too. The players should be grateful for the way salaries have continued to sky rocket and yet they b!^ch and talk about protecting future players. Can they really be that stupid.

I don't know man... I don't think I'd be interested in seeing a B-rated product. Teams like Sacramento can't sell out a game with Tyreke Evans on their team you think they are gonna sell out with some scrubs? I don't think the NBA is going to use replacements. They'd be watering down their product and it wouldn't be very attractive. That move would backfire on the owners. The players would be laughing at the empty arenas.

Hunter48MVP
11-22-2011, 12:06 AM
At least we have a season now

blahblahyoutoo
11-22-2011, 12:53 AM
I don't know man... I don't think I'd be interested in seeing a B-rated product. Teams like Sacramento can't sell out a game with Tyreke Evans on their team you think they are gonna sell out with some scrubs? I don't think the NBA is going to use replacements. They'd be watering down their product and it wouldn't be very attractive. That move would backfire on the owners. The players would be laughing at the empty arenas.

and the owners would be laughing at their empty bank accounts.

OldSchool
11-22-2011, 12:55 AM
and the owners would be laughing at their empty bank accounts.

Yeah they would be claiming losses of billions with replacement players...lol.