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View Full Version : OPINION: How David Stern ruined the league.



dnewguy
11-14-2011, 07:54 PM
David Stern is just another symptom of the greed that continues to run rampant among CEO's and powerful people (congress and the President included) in America today. The NBA used to be owned by owners who care about basketball, not anymore David Stern have a tendency to sell ownership of teams to people who care more about money and less about Basketball and there lays the problem. Most of the owners today are profit - oriented, not just some profit, HUGE PROFIT. They want to make billions and not millions annually.

During the lockout, everyone just like our congress (always talking about cutting benefits but none of their own huge tax payer funded benefit) seem to talk about the players taking a pay cut, no one is talking about league officials including Stern and the owners taking a cut in favor of lower prices for the fans. It seems to be about more money for Stern and the owner or else no one gets anything.

The most eye opening part of the negotiations is that the NBA COMMISSIONER is actually not the NBA commissioner anymore, he is the owners representative. He has been one-sided in the negotiations, he's more worried about making the owners happy and to hell with the players, he won't even open the books to let everyone see if the NBA is actually losing money (if they are, why haven't they declared bankruptcy) it appears to me that the commissioner is indeed treating the players as inferiors beings, not as adults. We shouldn't be surprised though because what other commissioner give grown Men dress codes when they are not even playing?

It's time for Stern to retire and allow someone else who is not biased one way or the other be in charge.

topdog
11-14-2011, 08:12 PM
Oh, goodness! I am glad that there is no more chance for a quick deal because I'm tired of these threads calling Stern the devil and talking about "corporate America beats the poor peasant again." (Thus, after tonight, I won't have to see them for awhile)

Trying to prevent a repeat of hundreds of millions of dollars in losses is foresight, not greed. Players do not represent the 99%, they represent an entitled and, undeservedly so, part of the 1%.

beliges
11-14-2011, 08:16 PM
David Stern is just another symptom of the greed that continues to run rampant among CEO's and powerful people (congress and the President included) in America today. The NBA used to be owned by owners who care about basketball, not anymore David Stern have a tendency to sell ownership of teams to people who care more about money and less about Basketball and there lays the problem. Most of the owners today are profit - oriented, not just some profit, HUGE PROFIT. They want to make billions and not millions annually.

During the lockout, everyone just like our congress (always talking about cutting benefits but none of their own huge tax payer funded benefit) seem to talk about the players taking a pay cut, no one is talking about league officials including Stern and the owners taking a cut in favor of lower prices for the fans. It seems to be about more money for Stern and the owner or else no one gets anything.

The most eye opening part of the negotiations is that the NBA COMMISSIONER is actually not the NBA commissioner anymore, he is the owners representative. He has been one-sided in the negotiations, he's more worried about making the owners happy and to hell with the players, he won't even open the books to let everyone see if the NBA is actually losing money (if they are, why haven't they declared bankruptcy) it appears to me that the commissioner is indeed treating the players as inferiors beings, not as adults. We shouldn't be surprised though because what other commissioner give grown Men dress codes when they are not even playing?

It's time for Stern to retire and allow someone else who is not biased one way or the other be in charge.

You sir are in desperate need of what is called "education" on this topic. That is all.

dnewguy
11-14-2011, 08:27 PM
You sir are in desperate need of what is called "education" on this topic. That is all.

Does the Russian owner of the Nets care about basketball more than money? Look at Stern's track record, he must be getting some kind of under the table payments because he's been selling NBA teams (cough, cough Detroit) to owners that could care less about Basketball. If we have owners like Cuban who actually like Basketball, we would have a deal by now.

bmd1101
11-14-2011, 08:27 PM
You sir are in desperate need of what is called "education" on this topic. That is all.

He may be a bit overboard, but he makes a few valid points. So far these haven't been negotiations, they simply wanted the players to take what they would give them, and villianize the union who HAVE been negotiating in good faith.

As for topdog, I guess we will see how dire the owners situation is at some point. The longer this **** drags, the more the players will see the true financial picture.

Props to the players for growing a pair.

beliges
11-14-2011, 08:30 PM
Does the Russian owner of the Nets care about basketball more than money? Look at Stern's track record, he must be getting some kind of under the table payments because he's been selling NBA teams (cough, cough Detroit) to owners that could care less about Basketball. If we have owners like Cuban who actually like Basketball, we would have a deal by now.

Hes been selling teams to owners who are financially viable enough to run successful franchises. Lets not even talk about the fact that Stern has helped the NBA grow drastically throughout the globe. For owners, the more successful your franchise the more money it means for you. So owners who care about making money are the same thing as owners who care about winning. And the "Russian owner" is a great businessman and he cares about making money; i.e. running a successful franchise.

dnewguy
11-14-2011, 08:30 PM
He may be a bit overboard, but he makes a few valid points. So far these haven't been negotiations, they simply wanted the players to take what they would give them, and villianize the union who HAVE been negotiating in good faith.

As for topdog, I guess we will see how dire the owners situation is at some point. The longer this **** drags, the more the players will see the true financial picture.

Props to the players for growing a pair.

Just saying...Stern has been selling teams to corporations who care more about profit than Basketball. They see the league as a money source and could care less about fans or the game itself. If he sold teams to people who love basketball, we will have a deal by now.

beliges
11-14-2011, 08:33 PM
He may be a bit overboard, but he makes a few valid points. So far these haven't been negotiations, they simply wanted the players to take what they would give them, and villianize the union who HAVE been negotiating in good faith.

As for topdog, I guess we will see how dire the owners situation is at some point. The longer this **** drags, the more the players will see the true financial picture.

Props to the players for growing a pair.

Some people act like the players are gettting shafted. As has been mentioned countless times in this forum, NBA players make more money than any other American professional athlete. Furthermore, NBA players have the most player friendly contracts of any of the American sports. This new deal proposed by the NBA would not have changed any of that. But the fact remains, the owners own the team and take all the financial risks. As such, they can decide to distribute their profits in any way they want, so long as its fair. This deal is beyond fair for the players. Just because you are not going to make as much as you did in the past doesnt mean you are being forced to accept an unconscionable deal. If the players want to make the big bucks, they can put together their own money and purchase a team.

dnewguy
11-14-2011, 08:33 PM
Hes been selling teams to owners who are financially viable enough to run successful franchises. Lets not even talk about the fact that Stern has helped the NBA grow drastically throughout the globe. For owners, the more successful your franchise the more money it means for you. So owners who care about making money are the same thing as owners who care about winning. And the "Russian owner" is a great businessman and he cares about making money; i.e. running a successful franchise.

LMAO...really? If you run a Pizza business, you have an idea how people will like Pizza, if you sell clothes, you have an idea what clothes are trending etc. You can't just sell a Basketball team to someone who has no clue about Basketball and expect them to be able to run it. Businessman or not, they have no clue about Basketball operations and that's why they make dumb decisions that affects every other teams.

dnewguy
11-14-2011, 08:35 PM
Some people act like the players are gettting shafted. As has been mentioned countless times in this forum, NBA players make more money than any other American professional athlete. Furthermore, NBA players have the most player friendly contracts of any of the American sports. This new deal proposed by the NBA would not have changed any of that. But the fact remains, the owners own the team and take all the financial risks. As such, they can decide to distribute their profits in any way they want, so long as its fair. This deal is beyond fair for the players. Just because you are not going to make as much as you did in the past doesnt mean you are being forced to accept an unconscionable deal. If the players want to make the big bucks, they can put together their own money and purchase a team.

If they are not getting shafted, then remove CAPS. If you can't run a basketball team, get out of the Basketball system. What Stern and the owners are doing is what you call socialism....let the teams compete, if a team can't survive, cut it. It's that simple.

beliges
11-14-2011, 08:37 PM
LMAO...really? If you run a Pizza business, you have an idea how people will like Pizza, if you sell clothes, you have an idea what clothes are trending etc. You can't just sell a Basketball team to someone who has no clue about Basketball and expect them to be able to run it. Businessman or not, they have no clue about Basketball operations and that's why they make dumb decisions that affects every other teams.

You dont have to know about basketball to run a basketball franchise. You just have to know about business and how to run it successfully. Usually owners are not the GMs. They hire basketball people in order to help run the franchise successfully. Bottom line is money to these owners and without winning, there is less money. These guys have a huge incentive to win and as such, have a huge incentive to make right basketball moves to put their franchise in that position.

gwrighter
11-14-2011, 08:39 PM
Does the Russian owner of the Nets care about basketball more than money? Look at Stern's track record, he must be getting some kind of under the table payments because he's been selling NBA teams (cough, cough Detroit) to owners that could care less about Basketball. If we have owners like Cuban who actually like Basketball, we would have a deal by now.

He's been selling NBA teams to people that will pay lofty prices for them. That is how markets work, you sell to the highest bidder. Owners like Cuban are okay with losing money. It's possible to make sports teams profitable for all involved.

dnewguy
11-14-2011, 08:41 PM
You dont have to know about basketball to run a basketball franchise. You just have to know about business and how to run it successfully. Usually owners are not the GMs. They hire basketball people in order to help run the franchise successfully. Bottom line is money to these owners and without winning, there is less money. These guys have a huge incentive to win and as such, have a huge incentive to make right basketball moves to put their franchise in that position.

"You dont have to know about basketball to run a basketball franchise" LMAO...is that a joke? If you don't know about Basketball how can you make wise decisions? If the hawks owner knew about Basketball will they give Joe Johnson the Max? If the Magic owner knew jack about Bball will they give R Lewis the Max? Decisions of dumb owners is why we're in this crap today. It amazes me how people like you can even make that comment.

dnewguy
11-14-2011, 08:44 PM
He's been selling NBA teams to people that will pay lofty prices for them. That is how markets work, you sell to the highest bidder. Owners like Cuban are okay with losing money. It's possible to make sports teams profitable for all involved.

Really? and look at the result...they want their money back and you and I as fans have to suffer through it. YES, wise decision. You sound like Republicans using the free market as excuse to ship jobs to a communist country even though they made profits when those jobs were in America. I guess if you don't make a billion while others suffer, the market isn't working.

gwrighter
11-14-2011, 08:50 PM
Really? and look at the result...they want their money back and you and I as fans have to suffer through it. YES, wise decision. You sound like Republicans using the free market as excuse to ship jobs to a communist country even though they made profits when those jobs were in America. I guess if you don't make a billion while others suffer, the market isn't working.

but they aren't making money though, thats the difference lol. How can you looks past that? that is the reason there is a lockout.

Punk
11-14-2011, 08:54 PM
Stern is the reason why this proposal was offered. Now, the players should not have rejected but the proposal was very fair for the most part and Stern did a masterful job of toning down the owners aggressive want of 47% BRI and a flex cap or hard cap of 45 million.

Stern's biggest mistakes was with these teams they do not make money. He moved a few teams from loctations and allowed it and now it's coming back to bite him in the ***.

Who said Charlotte could keep a team long term? Why move from Vancouver when it was a profitable NBA city? It took Memphis a decade before it paid itself off and now entered the black.

New Orleans is clearly not a profitable NBA city but they so want it to be like the NFL's New Orleans Saints when it will never be. Things like that is what I mostly blame Stern for but I cannot totally blast him when he did a good job of keeping cooler heads within these meetings and he cannot totally change the voice of the owners.

dnewguy
11-14-2011, 08:56 PM
but they aren't making money though, thats the difference lol. How can you looks past that? that is the reason there is a lockout.

Prove it.....open the books. All the money they made from advertising, NBA league pass, TV deals and so on. Just because they said they are not making money does not mean they are not making money. Thank God they are going to court, now we can see the books.

TheRomanGod
11-14-2011, 09:04 PM
everyone who thinks its sterns fault is stupid. Stern tried to save the season, its hunter fault. change the title to how Billy hunter ruined the league.

mike_noodles
11-14-2011, 09:07 PM
I actually think Stern is the best commish out there and has done wonders for the game. I put this on the greedy players and the PA.

beasted86
11-14-2011, 09:17 PM
I fault Stern for planting the seed in prospective owners' heads that he would get them everything they wanted in the next CBA, and guaranteeing they would turn profits.

That's like Billy Hunter telling college students "I'm going to make sure your rookie contracts pay more in the next CBA" then holding out in the CBA negotiations until he gets what he wants.

That's essentially what David Stern did instead of trying to be an ambassador for the sport in general (not just the owners) and understand the impact to both sides of the collective bargaining session and what it would take to satisfy their needs in the deal. During the past negotiations Stern seemed to make some sort of attempt to address issues from both sides such as the draft lottery, mid-level exception, and so forth.

This time around Stern gave his word to the owners and all new implementations are one sided in the owners' favor. The singular aspect of this latest proposal that helps the players is the 3-day limit on matching an offer sheet instead of the previous 7-day limit. But all other changes..... every single one of them, are designed to benefit the owners.

ink
11-14-2011, 09:21 PM
I fault Stern for planting the seed in prospective owners' heads that he would get them everything they wanted in the next CBA, and guaranteeing they would turn profits.

That's like Billy Hunter telling college students "I'm going to make sure your rookie contracts pay more in the next CBA" then holding out in the CBA negotiations until he gets what he wants.

That's essentially what David Stern did instead of trying to be an ambassador for the sport in general (not just the owners) and understand the impact to both sides of the collective bargaining session and what it would take to satisfy their needs in the deal. During the past negotiations Stern seemed to make some sort of attempt to address issues from both sides such as the draft lottery, mid-level exception, and so forth.

This time around Stern gave his word to the owners and all new implementations are one sided in the owners' favor. The singular aspect of this latest proposal that helps the players is the 3-day limit on matching an offer sheet instead of the previous 7-day limit. But all other changes..... every single one of them, are designed to benefit the owners.

I'd like to see the quote from Stern where he "planted the seed".

The owners marked the date in their calendars for this lockout. Stern works for them.

ink
11-14-2011, 09:22 PM
David Stern is just another symptom of the greed that continues to run rampant among CEO's and powerful people (congress and the President included) in America today. The NBA used to be owned by owners who care about basketball, not anymore David Stern have a tendency to sell ownership of teams to people who care more about money and less about Basketball and there lays the problem. Most of the owners today are profit - oriented, not just some profit, HUGE PROFIT. They want to make billions and not millions annually.

During the lockout, everyone just like our congress (always talking about cutting benefits but none of their own huge tax payer funded benefit) seem to talk about the players taking a pay cut, no one is talking about league officials including Stern and the owners taking a cut in favor of lower prices for the fans. It seems to be about more money for Stern and the owner or else no one gets anything.

The most eye opening part of the negotiations is that the NBA COMMISSIONER is actually not the NBA commissioner anymore, he is the owners representative. He has been one-sided in the negotiations, he's more worried about making the owners happy and to hell with the players, he won't even open the books to let everyone see if the NBA is actually losing money (if they are, why haven't they declared bankruptcy) it appears to me that the commissioner is indeed treating the players as inferiors beings, not as adults. We shouldn't be surprised though because what other commissioner give grown Men dress codes when they are not even playing?

It's time for Stern to retire and allow someone else who is not biased one way or the other be in charge.

You need to go back and check some facts man.

Captain Moroni
11-14-2011, 09:36 PM
Another thread by the uniformed minority who want basketball at all cost. David Stern created the money, the fame, the glitz, and the superstardom that these "entertainers" crave. Without Stern, there are no Mega TV contracts, No multimillion dollar endorsement deals, no one cared about professional basketball until Stern took over a very tired, beleaguered, unattractive league.

The players loved the money, loved the fame, loved the glamour but in the end they loved the greed too much to even care about where it was coming from.

Captain Moroni
11-14-2011, 09:38 PM
I actually think Stern is the best commish out there and has done wonders for the game. I put this on the greedy players and the PA.

Some day these players will realize how fortunate they are to have Commissioner Stern at the helm. They just missed the how to be "FAIR" day in Kindergarten, they were out shooting free throws.

Captain Moroni
11-14-2011, 09:46 PM
Remember the night Wilt Chaimberlin scored 100 points in one game? Have you ever seen the video of that game?
No? Why Not?
Oh yeah the reason you never saw that is because there is no video of that game. Because truth be told NO ONE REALLY CARED ABOUT THE NBA.

Hundreds not tens of thousands of people would show up to some of these games. There were no cheerleaders, no high performance sound systems, there were no flashing lights, and multimillion dollar sponsors. No luxury suites and PSL. There were just tall players and few rabid fans that followed an awful product. Boring, dull, bland NBA basketball.
Enter David Stern....Everyone starts making Millions. It was called "Showtime" and it still is. But now the players want more of the "showtime" take.
It is that simple. and the players are so stupid.

Captain Moroni
11-14-2011, 09:48 PM
Do you realize that more people tune in to watch the NBA draft then tuned in to watch the NBA finals 30 years ago?
Thanks Commissioner Stern

futureman
11-14-2011, 10:35 PM
Why should owners keep losing money? What use is there in owning a sport franchise when the owner of the franchise keeps losing money?

Stern bashers are uneducated idiots.

futureman
11-14-2011, 10:41 PM
LMAO...really? If you run a Pizza business, you have an idea how people will like Pizza, if you sell clothes, you have an idea what clothes are trending etc. You can't just sell a Basketball team to someone who has no clue about Basketball and expect them to be able to run it. Businessman or not, they have no clue about Basketball operations and that's why they make dumb decisions that affects every other teams.

The Jazz were bought by a car salesman in 1985. Since then they have been one of the most consistent teams out there in terms of winning percentage. You can have clueless owners but if they hire good personell and let them do their jobs, they can suceed.

beasted86
11-14-2011, 11:00 PM
Really? That's the comment that gets deleted.

I think I might be done with this site until games actually resume.

specialiststeve
11-14-2011, 11:02 PM
If you do some research you will find that in Stern's watch the game has grown to what the players "had". The players are completely foolish to think otherwise. Sterns biggest issue is that what he has grown just was to much for the system (owners) to handle and the money the players recieved is (was) out of line with income. Also the last CBA the players were like little children who parents never say no to, they always think they should get their way and are "entitled" to what they want even if it makes little or no sense.

I do beleive that the "entitlement" is about to end as the ignorance and thinking they will get whatever they want is about to end.

My hope is for a system like the NFL. No guarenteed contracts - earn your money boys if you want to be back next year, with a Hard cap and no exceptions. Players that have to play hard to earn their money and owners on the same playing field and the best run team will be the victor. The owners and Stern have the opening now and I hope they use it!! I love the NBA but not with the spoiled brats that we have in this era.

dnewguy
11-14-2011, 11:02 PM
Remember the night Wilt Chaimberlin scored 100 points in one game? Have you ever seen the video of that game?
No? Why Not?
Oh yeah the reason you never saw that is because there is no video of that game. Because truth be told NO ONE REALLY CARED ABOUT THE NBA.

Hundreds not tens of thousands of people would show up to some of these games. There were no cheerleaders, no high performance sound systems, there were no flashing lights, and multimillion dollar sponsors. No luxury suites and PSL. There were just tall players and few rabid fans that followed an awful product. Boring, dull, bland NBA basketball.
Enter David Stern....Everyone starts making Millions. It was called "Showtime" and it still is. But now the players want more of the "showtime" take.
It is that simple. and the players are so stupid.

I think many of you are overrating Stern, Basketball became popular inspite of Stern and because of technological advances. You are comparing now to a time when just a few people have Television, a few people even knew about the NBA outside of Boston, LA and NY. Lets not start acting like Stern did anything for this league, the players made the league and not stern. Can any of you point to what Stern exactly did to get you interested in Basketball?....don't worry, i'll wait.

ink
11-14-2011, 11:03 PM
Really? That's the comment that gets deleted.

I think I might be done with this site until games actually resume.

Talk about the poster's comment, not where he's gone to school.

ink
11-14-2011, 11:06 PM
If you do some research you will find that in Stern's watch the game has grown to what the players "had". The players are completely foolish to think otherwise. Sterns biggest issue is that what he has grown just was to much for the system (owners) to handle and the money the players recieved is (was) out of line with income. Also the last CBA the players were like little children who parents never say no to, they always think they should get their way and are "entitled" to what they want even if it makes little or no sense.

I do beleive that the "entitlement" is about to end as the ignorance and thinking they will get whatever they want is about to end.

My hope is for a system like the NFL. No guarenteed contracts - earn your money boys if you want to be back next year, with a Hard cap and no exceptions. Players that have to play hard to earn their money and owners on the same playing field and the best run team will be the victor. The owners and Stern have the opening now and I hope they use it!! I love the NBA but not with the spoiled brats that we have in this era.

I especially agree with no guaranteed contracts.

Other than injury (for which there's insurance) what good reason is there to guarantee a player's contract?

OldSchool
11-14-2011, 11:15 PM
Why should owners keep losing money? What use is there in owning a sport franchise when the owner of the franchise keeps losing money?

Stern bashers are uneducated idiots.

Owners claimed losses of 300 million last year... with a 50/50 split the owners would get approximately 315 million back. So the entire league would be profitable. The players had pretty much agreed to that but wanted concessions on the system side. They never got them. Stern is an idiot, he should have persuaded the owners to give back certain things on the system to get a deal done... Instead he threatened 47% BRI to players, he threatened roll backs, he threatened instead of trying to find common ground. Thats why he has failed.

ink
11-14-2011, 11:25 PM
Owners claimed losses of 300 million last year... with a 50/50 split the owners would get approximately 315 million back. So the entire league would be profitable. The players had pretty much agreed to that but wanted concessions on the system side. They never got them. Stern is an idiot, he should have persuaded the owners to give back certain things on the system to get a deal done... Instead he threatened 47% BRI to players, he threatened roll backs, he threatened instead of trying to find common ground. Thats why he has failed.

The point is that the owners already caved completely on system change and these clawbacks to the deal were really just the players trying to prevent any change at all. I don't blame the 10 owners for saying that Stern had gone too far.

Do you see how neither the players or all the owners completely agreed with the negotiators? That's what happens when the parties are too far apart. You can't blame the guy in the middle for not being able to reconcile people that are that far apart. It's not reasonable.

Bramaca
11-14-2011, 11:29 PM
Owners claimed losses of 300 million last year... with a 50/50 split the owners would get approximately 315 million back. So the entire league would be profitable. The players had pretty much agreed to that but wanted concessions on the system side. They never got them. Stern is an idiot, he should have persuaded the owners to give back certain things on the system to get a deal done... Instead he threatened 47% BRI to players, he threatened roll backs, he threatened instead of trying to find common ground. Thats why he has failed.

So according to you the players getting 2 billion dollars anually and the owners splitting 15 million in profits between 30 teams (while putting out millions to market those players and their team) is a good enough deal for the league to make concessions on the system side.

I understand people wanting to support the players and not liking the super rich (owners) but that type of a profit margin on an established business is a complete joke.

dnewguy
11-14-2011, 11:37 PM
So according to you the players getting 2 billion dollars anually and the owners splitting 15 million in profits between 30 teams (while putting out millions to market those players and their team) is a good enough deal for the league to make concessions on the system side.

I understand people wanting to support the players and not liking the super rich (owners) but that type of a profit margin on an established business is a complete joke.

What's wrong with good ol capitalism? No salary Caps, let all compete. Or is capitalism only good when it's comes to labor? I guess the rich likes socialism when it benefits them.

OldSchool
11-14-2011, 11:51 PM
So according to you the players getting 2 billion dollars anually and the owners splitting 15 million in profits between 30 teams (while putting out millions to market those players and their team) is a good enough deal for the league to make concessions on the system side.

I understand people wanting to support the players and not liking the super rich (owners) but that type of a profit margin on an established business is a complete joke.

Im saying that I pay to go see the Carmelo's, the Durant's, the Kobe's.... Im not paying to see the owners.

Also... of the 300 mil the owners are claiming as losses, depreciation and other accounting tricks are included. The real losses the teams are claiming are probably at the 180-200 million range.

Also... The owners aren't splitting 15 million in profits. It would essentially guarantee every owner at least a break even scenario... And Im not even adding private TV money for the teams that own their own TV stations or the increase in franchises value.

The players have given up 3.15+ billion over 10 years... Time for the owners to give back something to the players that pack the arenas.

OaklandsFinest
11-15-2011, 12:00 AM
Owners have been losing money due to bad investments and failure to execute drafts well. The reason why teams like Indiana can't fill their arena is there is not a good product on the floor. They just started putting something together the year before the lock out. Teams like Minnesota have run that team into the ground. You get a million picks for Kevin Garnett and the only pick you can speak of with any regard is Kevin Love. Everything else has been a **** show. Charlotte has been poorly run and had a solid core. The fact is, if you run the organization right, from a basketball standpoint you will make money. The owners want to protect themselves? Keep a lot of the financial structure together, give a 50/50 split, and raise the age for drafting to two years out of high school. This will cut down on drafting "upside" busts and instead drafting cats who can actually hoop.

NY007
11-15-2011, 12:12 AM
Personally I would love to hit stern in the face if I ever get the chance lol

Arch Stanton
11-15-2011, 12:15 AM
Listening to Sterns interview on ESPN. I love his line: "The players seem hellbent on self destruction and I think it's very sad."

Ill21
11-15-2011, 12:32 AM
There is no way this can be blamed on one said. I dont believe for one second that either side negotiated in good faith the entire time.

Arch Stanton
11-15-2011, 12:35 AM
I wonder peoples feelings on Billy Hunter? Did he lead the players in the right direction?

Knick_Fever
11-15-2011, 12:45 AM
"You dont have to know about basketball to run a basketball franchise" LMAO...is that a joke? If you don't know about Basketball how can you make wise decisions? If the hawks owner knew about Basketball will they give Joe Johnson the Max? If the Magic owner knew jack about Bball will they give R Lewis the Max? Decisions of dumb owners is why we're in this crap today. It amazes me how people like you can even make that comment.

Dude, Welcome to corporate America! I know it sounds funny but it actually is true, you really don't need to know basketball to be a successful business man, you just need to know how to market and sell the product, and Stern is the best at this. No other commissioner has ever marketed their players like Stern has. Take it from me, im a business major, and in this field what has surprised you is actually common knowledge. Believe it or not, just pick up an intro to business textbook and get educated.

Punk
11-15-2011, 12:49 AM
If you do some research you will find that in Stern's watch the game has grown to what the players "had". The players are completely foolish to think otherwise. Sterns biggest issue is that what he has grown just was to much for the system (owners) to handle and the money the players recieved is (was) out of line with income. Also the last CBA the players were like little children who parents never say no to, they always think they should get their way and are "entitled" to what they want even if it makes little or no sense.

I do beleive that the "entitlement" is about to end as the ignorance and thinking they will get whatever they want is about to end.

My hope is for a system like the NFL. No guarenteed contracts - earn your money boys if you want to be back next year, with a Hard cap and no exceptions. Players that have to play hard to earn their money and owners on the same playing field and the best run team will be the victor. The owners and Stern have the opening now and I hope they use it!! I love the NBA but not with the spoiled brats that we have in this era.

:laugh:

So, despite having 10 years prior years of small markets dominating larger markets. Guys like Jordan, Miller, Bird all playing for the same team just because 4 guys decided they wanted a new team because they were not put in the best position to win after 8 years of trying makes them spoiled brats?

Wow just wow.

BaustinSali08
11-15-2011, 01:00 AM
The players forget they play a "game" for income, have a privilege to play the game of basketball in front of millions of people, and get paid a lot of money to do so. My favorite thing about all of this is you see the players saying we aren't getting enough but they are wearing their Armani suits, diamonds, expensive sunglasses, and I am sure they are leaving in their expensive cars, etc... I don't think that image from them is smart when the majority of the people they play for are sacrificing a lot of money to see "them" play. I don't think the owners, or Stern, are completely innocent but any athlete saying they don't get paid enough when they made millions of dollars last year is just laughable. I mean how are the owners supposed to feel when a player, like most recently Carmelo Anthony, decides he doesn't want to play anymore for the team and himself committed themselves to a contract that is paying him millions of dollars? I just don't see how anyone can agree with the players and it makes me sick to see them say they are the victims.

BaustinSali08
11-15-2011, 01:05 AM
Owners have been losing money due to bad investments and failure to execute drafts well. The reason why teams like Indiana can't fill their arena is there is not a good product on the floor. They just started putting something together the year before the lock out. Teams like Minnesota have run that team into the ground. You get a million picks for Kevin Garnett and the only pick you can speak of with any regard is Kevin Love. Everything else has been a **** show. Charlotte has been poorly run and had a solid core. The fact is, if you run the organization right, from a basketball standpoint you will make money. The owners want to protect themselves? Keep a lot of the financial structure together, give a 50/50 split, and raise the age for drafting to two years out of high school. This will cut down on drafting "upside" busts and instead drafting cats who can actually hoop.

True, but it is easier for big market teams to protect themselves from mistakes that any organization can make. I mean the Pacers don't have the advantage of playing in a market like New York or LA. I think a balance needs to be found regardless of what team you support.

ClippersE.G
11-15-2011, 01:25 AM
The players forget they play a "game" for income, have a privilege to play the game of basketball in front of millions of people, and get paid a lot of money to do so. My favorite thing about all of this is you see the players saying we aren't getting enough but they are wearing their Armani suits, diamonds, expensive sunglasses, and I am sure they are leaving in their expensive cars, etc... I don't think that image from them is smart when the majority of the people they play for are sacrificing a lot of money to see "them" play. I don't think the owners, or Stern, are completely innocent but any athlete saying they don't get paid enough when they made millions of dollars last year is just laughable. I mean how are the owners supposed to feel when a player, like most recently Carmelo Anthony, decides he doesn't want to play anymore for the team and himself committed themselves to a contract that is paying him millions of dollars? I just don't see how anyone can agree with the players and it makes me sick to see them say they are the victims.


What are you talking about. They are hard workers and work just as hard as a construction worker workin a 9 to 5, or anyone else for that matter. I mean the only difference is that the Players have Yachts and can get payed exaggerated amounts of money for playing way below expectations. Just like people in real life get raises for working horribly!
haha

(sarcasm)

John Walls Era
11-15-2011, 01:50 AM
Stern gets a bad rep. I don't trust him at all, but in this situation hes just a puppet.

HouRealCoach
11-15-2011, 03:59 AM
Smh its funny how people say we need owners like Cuban and not guys that will give Rashard Lewis 20 mil well peep this:

Erick Dampier, Antoine Walker, Raef Lafrentz, Abdul Wahad, and other stupid contrax he gavr out

but to blame them is stupid anyways because the gm's make those moves..

The players didnt accept because they didnt want people to think they were "bullied" into making a deal. fair or not

I dont see what Stern did wrong.. It was a good deal and the players decline because of their egos

LakersIn5
11-15-2011, 05:44 AM
Some people act like the players are gettting shafted. As has been mentioned countless times in this forum, NBA players make more money than any other American professional athlete. Furthermore, NBA players have the most player friendly contracts of any of the American sports. This new deal proposed by the NBA would not have changed any of that. But the fact remains, the owners own the team and take all the financial risks. As such, they can decide to distribute their profits in any way they want, so long as its fair. This deal is beyond fair for the players. Just because you are not going to make as much as you did in the past doesnt mean you are being forced to accept an unconscionable deal. If the players want to make the big bucks, they can put together their own money and purchase a team.

nba players also entertain people the most

beliges
11-15-2011, 02:43 PM
nba players also entertain people the most

Actually Im pretty sure NFL players entertain people the most as evidenced by the fact that the NFL is many many times more popular than the NBA in this country. Furthermore, NASCAR drivers also entertain more people as its the 2nd most watched "sport" (if you want to call it that) in this country. But still, NBA players make the most money out of any American professional athlete and they have the most player friendly contract structure out of all the American professional sports.

OaklandsFinest
11-15-2011, 03:35 PM
True, but it is easier for big market teams to protect themselves from mistakes that any organization can make. I mean the Pacers don't have the advantage of playing in a market like New York or LA. I think a balance needs to be found regardless of what team you support.

I agree a soft cap is a good idea to create a level playing field with teams being allowed to go over to keep their stars. However I don't think its easier for large market teams if the management is still poor. The Knicks are a prime example, they ran their organization into the ground for years, and then it still took Donnie Walsh a couple of seasons to turn it around. If an organization makes educated moves a la Dallas, you can turn an irrelevant organization into a power house. The owners need to realize they made this bed they have to sleep in it.

smith&wesson
11-15-2011, 03:50 PM
David Stern is just another symptom of the greed that continues to run rampant among CEO's and powerful people (congress and the President included) in America today. The NBA used to be owned by owners who care about basketball, not anymore David Stern have a tendency to sell ownership of teams to people who care more about money and less about Basketball and there lays the problem. Most of the owners today are profit - oriented, not just some profit, HUGE PROFIT. They want to make billions and not millions annually.

During the lockout, everyone just like our congress (always talking about cutting benefits but none of their own huge tax payer funded benefit) seem to talk about the players taking a pay cut, no one is talking about league officials including Stern and the owners taking a cut in favor of lower prices for the fans. It seems to be about more money for Stern and the owner or else no one gets anything.

The most eye opening part of the negotiations is that the NBA COMMISSIONER is actually not the NBA commissioner anymore, he is the owners representative. He has been one-sided in the negotiations, he's more worried about making the owners happy and to hell with the players, he won't even open the books to let everyone see if the NBA is actually losing money (if they are, why haven't they declared bankruptcy) it appears to me that the commissioner is indeed treating the players as inferiors beings, not as adults. We shouldn't be surprised though because what other commissioner give grown Men dress codes when they are not even playing?

It's time for Stern to retire and allow someone else who is not biased one way or the other be in charge.

So if you invested millons and millons of dollars in a franchise you wouldnt be concerned with your profit ?

how many time do they have to tell you this is a business first before you understand that it is just that ?

the players are being lead astray. if this is what they were going to resort too it would have made sence to start months ago so that we could possibly have a season now. instead they lose theyre wages, go through a lengthy court process and may not ever get a better deal then the one they jusr rejected. you say the owenrs are greedy ? how do they differ from the players exactly ? where money is concerned greed is involved and both sides are guilty of that.

tcav701
11-15-2011, 03:50 PM
Owners care more about money? Of course they do, thats how they can afford to operate these teams. If money wasnt an owners single motive, he would run the franchise out of buisness.

Whats SHOULD be pointed out is these players that care more about money than basketball. They cant afford a paycut because they've already spent the multi-millions they have made playing a game on dumb **** they see in rap videos. They are the ones that would rather stop doing what they "love" than take a paycut which people have been forced to across the country. These players for the most part are so out of touch with the real world its sickening.

Poor managment certianly attributes to teams lack of sucess and incomes but to say that large markets dont have a major advantage is idiotic. The knicks have thrown trash on the court for the last 20 years and continue to make profits with a luxury tax payroll.

pebloemer
11-15-2011, 04:35 PM
Do you see how neither the players or all the owners completely agreed with the negotiators? That's what happens when the parties are too far apart. You can't blame the guy in the middle for not being able to reconcile people that are that far apart. It's not reasonable.

Well said Ink.

The itineraries of the Mark Cuban's, the Michael Jordan's carry their own agendas...

the itineraries of the rookie scale players, the mid-level guys, the overpaid guys and the superstars all carry their own agendas too...

There was simply far too much separation between all stakeholders involved for a deal to get done. I don't understand why people rest this on Stern's, Hunter's or even Fisher's head. I guess everyone needs a tangible target to vent their frustration at.

NY007
11-15-2011, 07:35 PM
There is no way this can be blamed on one said. I dont believe for one second that either side negotiated in good faith the entire time.

Way to jack Hahns avatar lol

JordansBulls
11-20-2011, 10:48 AM
The league got it's popularity during Stern's time.

BALLER71
11-20-2011, 11:00 AM
The NBA used to be owned by owners who care about basketball.

FALSE. Stop being naive. It has always been about money and will continue being about money.

keymax
11-20-2011, 11:22 AM
I have a feeling nobody really knows what the job of a commissioner really is.
He is paid by the owners to solely represent the owners.
And the power he supposedly has is massively overstated.
If the majority of owners want him gone, he is clearing out his desk by tomorrow.

ghettosean
11-20-2011, 12:15 PM
I actually think Stern is the best commish out there and has done wonders for the game. I put this on the greedy players and the PA.
Oh your right! Like how he rigged the dunk contest last year to have Griffin win before the contest even started. I'm glad the emails got leaked on this...

**** Stern he is no good for the league and he needs to go!!!

JordansBulls
11-23-2011, 03:30 PM
Oh your right! Like how he rigged the dunk contest last year to have Griffin win before the contest even started. I'm glad the emails got leaked on this...

**** Stern he is no good for the league and he needs to go!!!

He didn't rig anything, the dunk contest is decided by fan votes now.

kartyea
11-23-2011, 04:11 PM
I think many of you are overrating Stern, Basketball became popular inspite of Stern and because of technological advances. You are comparing now to a time when just a few people have Television, a few people even knew about the NBA outside of Boston, LA and NY. Lets not start acting like Stern did anything for this league, the players made the league and not stern. Can any of you point to what Stern exactly did to get you interested in Basketball?....don't worry, i'll wait.

I can Stern promoted the players in order for the league to be sucessful. That's all he did, so I agree with you Stern is way over rated. The best thing to happen to Stern and the NBA was Magic and Bird. When these two came in the league, so did the promoting of the individual. Being that he used the individual to make the league he should be a lot more down the middle on the issues.

Muttman73
11-23-2011, 04:40 PM
You forget that without the NBA most of these guys are washing cars for a living. Stern while no angel is far from the problem. You want a villian, look no further than Miami, the egomaniacal, under educated greed monger, attention needing MeBron ruined the NBA and pushed it to the brink of diaster...where it sits today.

My OPINION

Mikeleafs
11-23-2011, 04:45 PM
NBA Players = Divas

C_Mund
11-23-2011, 04:48 PM
Stern has taken the League from a poor product featuring self-indulgent cokeheads to a viable multi-national corporation. The only problem is that the more money is made, the more political loopholes and fine print begin to determine the outcome of said product.
The last couple of CBA's have been bartering between the owners' and players' advantage. The whole point of this lockout isn't to screw the millionaires in favour of the billionaires or to sway power, the owners are trying to get the players to buy into a sustainable system in which everybody can make money and everybody has a chance to compete.
Like anything, this must be given time to work itself out. I'm okay with us losing a season (although you wouldn't guess that by talking to me...) as long as the players come back to play ball for the length of their contracts. However that is accomplished is left up to the lawyers.

Tom Stone
11-23-2011, 05:36 PM
Oh, goodness! I am glad that there is no more chance for a quick deal because I'm tired of these threads calling Stern the devil and talking about "corporate America beats the poor peasant again." (Thus, after tonight, I won't have to see them for awhile)

Trying to prevent a repeat of hundreds of millions of dollars in losses is foresight, not greed. Players do not represent the 99%, they represent an entitled and, undeservedly so, part of the 1%.



This




and I would add, he's every small market teams Hero.......THE RISE OF THE SMALL MARKETS !.......one mans terrorist is another's mans freedom fighter.

Anilyzer
11-23-2011, 07:41 PM
David Stern is just another symptom of the greed that continues to run rampant among CEO's and powerful people (congress and the President included) in America today. The NBA used to be owned by owners who care about basketball, not anymore David Stern have a tendency to sell ownership of teams to people who care more about money and less about Basketball and there lays the problem. Most of the owners today are profit - oriented, not just some profit, HUGE PROFIT. They want to make billions and not millions annually.

During the lockout, everyone just like our congress (always talking about cutting benefits but none of their own huge tax payer funded benefit) seem to talk about the players taking a pay cut, no one is talking about league officials including Stern and the owners taking a cut in favor of lower prices for the fans. It seems to be about more money for Stern and the owner or else no one gets anything.

The most eye opening part of the negotiations is that the NBA COMMISSIONER is actually not the NBA commissioner anymore, he is the owners representative. He has been one-sided in the negotiations, he's more worried about making the owners happy and to hell with the players, he won't even open the books to let everyone see if the NBA is actually losing money (if they are, why haven't they declared bankruptcy) it appears to me that the commissioner is indeed treating the players as inferiors beings, not as adults. We shouldn't be surprised though because what other commissioner give grown Men dress codes when they are not even playing?

It's time for Stern to retire and allow someone else who is not biased one way or the other be in charge.

That is a VERY very good point. Strong. Why hasn't this point been discussed in the media?

Since when did the commissioner of the league become 100% adversarial to the players and 100% pro-owner? Even on sportscenter they casually refer to Stern as "taking his orders from" or "representing" the owners. WTF? Isn't he supposed to be the commissioner of the sport?

Stern is looking more and more like an epic fail.

keymax
11-24-2011, 05:21 AM
That is a VERY very good point. Strong. Why hasn't this point been discussed in the media?

Since when did the commissioner of the league become 100% adversarial to the players and 100% pro-owner? Even on sportscenter they casually refer to Stern as "taking his orders from" or "representing" the owners. WTF? Isn't he supposed to be the commissioner of the sport?

Stern is looking more and more like an epic fail.

Again, people don't know what a commissioner is supposed to do.

The job of a commissioner in any sport is to represent the owners. He gets paid by the owners for god's sake. The owners vote him into this position to be their spokesman.
It never had anything to do with the players.