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View Full Version : Side question: Time for Stern to be fired?



Hellcrooner
11-14-2011, 04:30 PM
He has refused to step out when he clearly overstayed his wellcome in this league.
He is fighting the monster HE created.
And he has failed, more than probably because of siding with owners instead of players ( who are as HE modeled them to be)

Time to call the queen of hearts on his head?

Sadds The Gr8
11-14-2011, 04:31 PM
YES. please get rid of him. they've locked out twice during his regime...like wtf?

Ebbs
11-14-2011, 04:52 PM
Yea or publicly executed. either or

Hawkeye15
11-14-2011, 04:55 PM
Yes he does, but not entirely because of the CBA fallout. I think Stern did a GREAT job turning the NBA into what it is, but over the past few years, he has become more like the boss of an organized crime family than a commissioner.

Tony_Starks
11-14-2011, 05:02 PM
I don't think he should be fired at all, he needs to enter politics. This dude is a master at manipulating the public. I haven't seen a person fool so many people since George W convinced the world about weapons of mass destruction.......

Hellcrooner
11-14-2011, 05:06 PM
I don't think he should be fired at all, he needs to enter politics. This dude is a master at manipulating the public. I haven't seen a person fool so many people since George W convinced the world about weapons of mass destruction.......

flash new , i dont know in u.s.a but in the rest of the world G.W didnt fool anyone ( of the poulation, politics just entered the war to get oil profit)

Please tell me is not true that Little Bro Jeb Bushie wants to be president too.

Sinestro
11-14-2011, 05:06 PM
I don't think he should be fired at all, he needs to enter politics. This dude is a master at manipulating the public. I haven't seen a person fool so many people since George W convinced the world about weapons of mass destruction.......

+1

Stern and Hunter should both be fired right now

mrblisterdundee
11-14-2011, 05:09 PM
Why would you kill the messenger? Billy Hunter's the one with a target on his chest.

Kevj77
11-14-2011, 05:10 PM
His biggest mistake was over expanding the NBA. When he became the comish in 1984 there where 23 teams now there are 30. Not only did it spread the talent too thin, three of those teams have already had to relocate, four are represented by hardline owners not making a profit, and one is owned by the NBA. Only two the Magic and Heat are competitive.

hgtiger32
11-14-2011, 05:22 PM
No. Stern should not be fired.

camador22
11-14-2011, 05:23 PM
Hunter is the one that should be fired.

joeym
11-14-2011, 05:30 PM
Hunter is the one that should be fired.

I know the thread question is probably just rhetorical but if we took it
literally, who would actually fire Stern? not the owners...he is doing their bidding...not the fans....he was not hired by them...and certainly not the players....he is not accountable to anyone it seems.....

heyman321
11-14-2011, 05:31 PM
Stern is fine. The players are just idiots.

beliges
11-14-2011, 05:34 PM
Wow, can you be more wrong? Stern has overstayed his welcome? Ignorance is not a good trait to have. Stern has been the greatest commissioner in American sports for the past 2 or 3 decades. No other sport has enjoyed growth like the NBA has and Stern has been an integral part of that growth. Dont confuse the greed and selfishness of the players for Stern's overwelcome. Believe me, the NBA is much better off in the hands of Stern.

nastylikedwade
11-14-2011, 05:46 PM
I stand with the players. Stern ought to be neutral in this whole saga. He seem to be representing the wishes of the owners.

BigCityofDreams
11-14-2011, 05:47 PM
Selfishness and greed of the players? This is a lockout not a strike.

BigCityofDreams
11-14-2011, 05:49 PM
I stand with the players. Stern ought to be neutral in this whole saga. He seem to be representing the wishes of the owners.

He has to represent their wishes. The commissioner works for the owners.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-14-2011, 05:50 PM
how's it sterns fault?

gotoHcarolina52
11-14-2011, 05:56 PM
Billy Hunter, Derek Fisher and Jeffrey Kessler have displayed a monstrous amount of incompetence.

If you're firing Stern, fire those three stooges as well.

beliges
11-14-2011, 05:58 PM
Billy Hunter, Derek Fisher and Jeffrey Kessler have displayed a monstrous amount of incompetence.

If you're firing Stern, fire those three stooges as well.

I think its fair to say Billy Hunter will not keep his position after this entire ordeal is over.

BreakOutKid
11-14-2011, 06:13 PM
I'm laughing more at the Poll question, fist bump to whoever thought of that one but yes Stern should be fired along with Silver, Hunter and Fisher while where at it.

Wade>You
11-14-2011, 06:16 PM
I stand with the players. Stern ought to be neutral in this whole saga. He seem to be representing the wishes of the owners.It's a joke that the negotiations required an intermediary. Stern should've been the intermediary and he should knocked some sense into the owners. But I guess that's why they pay him around $20mil/yr.

Rocketsfan85
11-14-2011, 06:18 PM
I agree I think it's time for a fresh start new everything new commissioner new president new everything

beliges
11-14-2011, 06:19 PM
It's a joke that the negotiations required an intermediary. Stern should've been the intermediary and he should knocked some sense into the owners. But I guess that's why they pay him around $20mil/yr.

Stern is the commissioner of the NBA. He is not supposed to be neutral in these negotiations but he is to represent the best interest of the NBA. The owners and the franchises are the NBA. So, by the definition of his job, Stern is on the owners/NBA's side of the negotiations.

Kevj77
11-14-2011, 06:41 PM
Wow, can you be more wrong? Stern has overstayed his welcome? Ignorance is not a good trait to have. Stern has been the greatest commissioner in American sports for the past 2 or 3 decades. No other sport has enjoyed growth like the NBA has and Stern has been an integral part of that growth. Dont confuse the greed and selfishness of the players for Stern's overwelcome. Believe me, the NBA is much better off in the hands of Stern.Magic, Bird and Jordan were huge reasons for the growth of the NBA they brought casual fans. Cable television was another major factor it exposed more people to the NBA. Stern also did a great job.

beliges
11-14-2011, 07:00 PM
Magic, Bird and Jordan were huge reasons for the growth of the NBA they brought casual fans. Cable television was another major factor it exposed more people to the NBA. Stern also did a great job.

The one and only common nucleus for the past 30 years of immense global growth of the NBA has been David Stern. I know he routinely gets a bad rap from the casual so-so fan but in reality he has been a great commissioner.

Kevj77
11-14-2011, 07:06 PM
I never said he did a bad job. His mistake was over expanding.

Tony_Starks
11-14-2011, 07:11 PM
David Stern just said "Billy Hunter has put our season in jeopardy." Right right. So the owners playing hard ball and making threats for over 2 years had nothing to do with the season being in jeopardy right? This guy Stern is really funny, but Im sure someone will buy it.......

Hellcrooner
11-14-2011, 07:15 PM
I'm laughing more at the Poll question, fist bump to whoever thought of that one but yes Stern should be fired along with Silver, Hunter and Fisher while where at it.

finally someone notices it :D

BigCityofDreams
11-14-2011, 09:10 PM
David Stern just said "Billy Hunter has put our season in jeopardy." Right right. So the owners playing hard ball and making threats for over 2 years had nothing to do with the season being in jeopardy right? This guy Stern is really funny, but Im sure someone will buy it.......

Exactly Stern is the same guy that said I know where the bodies are buried because I buried them. But if you listen to some ppl around here Stern has been a saint through the entire process.

ink
11-14-2011, 09:18 PM
I never said he did a bad job. His mistake was over expanding.

I agree. And we'll probably disagree on this but his other HUGE mistake was in superstar marketing: to try to artificially create the next MJ. You can't do that on marketing hype alone and it has ruined the game.

NBA marketing created a monster and now we're seeing that the monster is out of control.

But fire Stern? Don't make me laugh.

He has been very skillful throughout this lockout, which needed to happen. He also bent over backwards giving some of the concessions 10 of his owners absolutely did not want. He has had an impossible task with this lockout and any reasonable person who looks at the whole picture can see that he's done well with it.

Hellcrooner
11-14-2011, 09:26 PM
I agree. And we'll probably disagree on this but his other HUGE mistake was in superstar marketing: to try to artificially create the next MJ. You can't do that on marketing hype alone and it has ruined the game.

NBA marketing created a monster and now we're seeing that the monster is out of control.

But fire Stern? Don't make me laugh.

He has been very skillful throughout this lockout, which needed to happen. He also bent over backwards giving some of the concessions 10 of his owners absolutely did not want. He has had an impossible task with this lockout and any reasonable person who looks at the whole picture can see that he's done well with it.
He hsouldnt have created mj in the first place, thats where all went wrong.

koreancabbage
11-14-2011, 09:27 PM
Stern has been a good commissioner.

don't know what some of the crack you are but it must be good.

ShakeN'Bake
11-14-2011, 09:36 PM
The one thing that has always driven me nuts about stern is ridiculous fining policy whenever someone speaks out about the refs.

MJ-BULLS
11-14-2011, 09:38 PM
Yes he does, but not entirely because of the CBA fallout. I think Stern did a GREAT job turning the NBA into what it is, but over the past few years, he has become more like the boss of an organized crime family than a commissioner.

this exactly this.

ink
11-14-2011, 09:38 PM
He hsouldnt have created mj in the first place, thats where all went wrong.

I'd have to agree even though I used to love watching MJ roll up 40-50-60 points a game. After a while it gets brutal to watch, that is unless all you want to see is someone make their own personal highlight tape instead of actually playing basketball with 4 other players.

The game is desperate for an overhaul. A 1-2 year hiatus wouldn't be so bad while they get their priorities straight.

And I don't want players running the league any more than I want to see one player ball hogging their way through the season.

airronijordan
11-14-2011, 09:40 PM
yes, Stern should be fired

this is the 3rd time there has been a lockout under his regime (1995,1999,2011)

One of those times they only had half a season, and now there probably will be no season

His biggest mistake was adding expansion teams

If it wasn't for Jordan,Magic vs Bird, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Lebron, etc (they're the ones who made the ratings and revenue grow)....Stern would've been gone a long time ago

airronijordan
11-14-2011, 09:41 PM
and lets not forget about fixing games

Wade>You
11-14-2011, 09:46 PM
Stern is the commissioner of the NBA. He is not supposed to be neutral in these negotiations but he is to represent the best interest of the NBA. The owners and the franchises are the NBA. So, by the definition of his job, Stern is on the owners/NBA's side of the negotiations.Is it in the NBA's (and even the Owners') best interest to have a lockout and lose the entire season?

What kind of business can continue operating if it refuses do business?

Hellcrooner
11-14-2011, 09:47 PM
I'd have to agree even though I used to love watching MJ roll up 40-50-60 points a game. After a while it gets brutal to watch, that is unless all you want to see is someone make their own personal highlight tape instead of actually playing basketball with 4 other players.

The game is desperate for an overhaul. A 1-2 year hiatus wouldn't be so bad while they get their priorities straight.

And I don't want players running the league any more than I want to see one player ball hogging their way through the season.

theres a good chance if they spend TWo years in europe playing TEAM GAME under fFIBA rules a change of mind comes to them.

BUT, i still will deffend that Movement restrictions SHOULD NOT HAPPEN.

ink
11-14-2011, 09:53 PM
theres a good chance if they spend TWo years in europe playing TEAM GAME under fFIBA rules a change of mind comes to them.

BUT, i still will deffend that Movement restrictions SHOULD NOT HAPPEN.

Be careful what you wish for. If the elite ball hogs of the NBA all went to Europe they'd trash your league just like they trashed ours. :cool:

Evolution23
11-14-2011, 09:58 PM
flash new , i dont know in u.s.a but in the rest of the world G.W didnt fool anyone ( of the poulation, politics just entered the war to get oil profit)

Please tell me is not true that Little Bro Jeb Bushie wants to be president too.

x2

Wade>You
11-14-2011, 11:04 PM
yes, Stern should be fired

this is the 3rd time there has been a lockout under his regime (1995,1999,2011)

One of those times they only had half a season, and now there probably will be no season

His biggest mistake was adding expansion teams

If it wasn't for Jordan,Magic vs Bird, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Lebron, etc (they're the ones who made the ratings and revenue grow)....Stern would've been gone a long time ago:clap:

specialiststeve
11-14-2011, 11:36 PM
Is it in the NBA's (and even the Owners') best interest to have a lockout and lose the entire season?

What kind of business can continue operating if it refuses do business?

If you have a buisiness that continues to lose money becuase you are over paying your employees. What would you logically do? Try to work with the employees to get it back into reality based so that as an owner you can make money. (check) if not you shut down the buisiness and restructure and reopen when the salery of the employees are within reason so that the buisiness can make money. People have to understand that this is a buisiness and owners ARE buisinessmen and they did not get there by not being good at it.

Stern should be given a raise as he likely will by the owners as he tried to get the players to come down to reasonable and their reasonable is status quo. Wrong answer. See you again players when you play under what the hard liners want. Players prove what we all hate as a stereotype - dumb!

Raps18-19 Champ
11-14-2011, 11:43 PM
He's good. Could use a new change though.

Kevj77
11-14-2011, 11:59 PM
I've wondered for awhile how much the NBA actually lost. The NBPA admitted after they saw the books that the NBA was losing money, but contended it was more like 100 million than 300 million they claimed. Their reasoning was that the NBA owners that financed teams are claiming interest on their loans as losses.

It would be interesting to know more about this. Are these personal loans or are they corporate loans, because interest on corporate debt is tax deductible in the US. I certainly hope these owners aren't claiming losses then taking a huge tax deduction from the government, but would that surprise anyone if a billionaire did that.

ClippersE.G
11-15-2011, 02:04 AM
He has refused to step out when he clearly overstayed his wellcome in this league.
He is fighting the monster HE created.
And he has failed, more than probably because of siding with owners instead of players ( who are as HE modeled them to be)

Time to call the queen of hearts on his head?

Why did I know the guy who created this thread was the guy who is comparing this whole debacle to slavery
:facepalm:

Illinirob83
11-15-2011, 03:12 AM
Having a successful basketball league is much harder than any other for multiple reasons, so no he shouldn't be fired.

Look at where the NBA is today in this country and globally since he took over; it is amazing what he has accomplished.

I won't get into all the reasons why having a successful basketball league is harder than other sports but I will give you this one.....

Basketball there are only 12 players on a team, 15 roster spots, 5 vs. 5 at all times on the court as we all know. The way the system is constructed there isn't any real way to have competitive balance AND be able to still have a high quality product. The league is dictated by a handful of elite superstars.

In baseball you can build an organization, grow and develop kids from the farm, there are a ton of rounds to draft. Several farm teams, and rookie teams to develop kids and bring them up. There are multiple ways to figure out a way to be competitive if you have wise management.

In the NFL, you have seven rounds of drafting. If you miss with a high draft pick you can still find many quality players that can have really terrific careers in the later rounds. Drafting wisely you can BUILD your team over a period of time.
Hockey same way.

Basketball is dictated by getting lucky with the bounce of lottery balls and then hoping you hit the lottery when a big time impact player comes out of college. In a 30 team league, not very many get that lucky. Unless you hit with a superstar/franchise talent in the draft, you won't be really relevant at all in the league. Also, the way the system is now, players can try and team up and join a superteam. Well, once that happens it is horrible for the mid-level to low-level type teams.....zero competitive balance, no other sports league is like this.

A. they could contract, which would be horrible for the players because there would be less teams. The competitive balance would become much greater, but there would be a lot less players in the league.

B. They could enforce a hard cap

As of right now the the owners/stern didn't have either of those options on the table, which is a win for the players in itself. Every other league, the teams can find a way to be competitive without a huge amount of luck. In the NBA you need the luck AND the money, otherwise you are playing in irrelevant land. 30 teams is just too much for a competitive basketball league. And for the players to have a soft cap and big-locked guaranteed contracts, many of these owners in mid-small markets...a) can't make money and b) can't be competitive.

The average-mediocre player in the NBA makes a lot, and is guaranteed a lot more than the players in the other league. The stupidity of many owners is a reason for this, but the market is usually set and fixed, nothing many owners can do with the way the structure is now. The NBA in its current form is broken, that isn't Stern's fault, that is just the essence of its sport. If you want to grow your sport and make it like the other major professional sports that is fine, but in a 5 on 5 sport, it is just very hard. Stern has done his best to globalize and popularize his sport/brand better than any other commish despite these flaws.

IMO the best thing for the NBA would be straight up contraction, and for the players that would be horrible for multiple reasons. For the players to be offered a soft-cap, no voided current contracts and still be guaranteed the money, they shouldve been very thankful. The owners have the cards and many of them don't have a way to make money or be competitive the way the system is set up right now, and the only way to get out of it for them in the current system is just plain, blind luck. When that is the case, and it is, the system is extremely flawed. The players have made out so well since '99, and for them to not realize these obvious flaws in the system is baffling. Soft cap and continued guaranteed contracts and you say no? wow.

Kevj77
11-15-2011, 03:43 AM
Basketball is dictated by getting lucky with the bounce of lottery balls and then hoping you hit the lottery when a big time impact player comes out of college. In a 30 team league, not very many get that lucky. Unless you hit with a superstar/franchise talent in the draft, you won't be really relevant at all in the league. Also, the way the system is now, players can try and team up and join a superteam. Well, once that happens it is horrible for the mid-level to low-level type teams.....zero competitive balance, no other sports league is like this.

A. they could contract, which would be horrible for the players because there would be less teams. The competitive balance would become much greater, but there would be a lot less players in the league.

B. They could enforce a hard cap

As of right now the the owners/stern didn't have either of those options on the table, which is a win for the players in itself. Every other league, the teams can find a way to be competitive without a huge amount of luck. In the NBA you need the luck AND the money, otherwise you are playing in irrelevant land. 30 teams is just too much for a competitive basketball league. And for the players to have a soft cap and big-locked guaranteed contracts, many of these owners in mid-small markets...a) can't make money and b) can't be competitive. Long post so I didn't want to quote it all. This gets right to the point though. Stern over expanded the NBA and now contraction is the best option. There aren't enough players to make 30 NBA teams competitive no matter what the system is. The NBA recruits from all over the world and still there isn't enough talent. Even if a team lucks out and wins the lottery there is no guarantee that there will be a franchise player in the draft that particular year. Some years there are 2-3 franchise players other years none. Not even a hard cap could fix this.

Even with a hard cap there will always be markets that are more desirable. Warm weather cities, states with no income tax, big markets or contending teams that will increase endorsement opportunities. Not even a hard cap could change any of that.