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View Full Version : NBAPA Files Antitrust Action and Decertifies Union



sunnydayin'zona
11-14-2011, 03:04 PM
Just heard it on ESPN.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7234180/nba-lockout-players-not-accept-deal-seek-decertify-billy-hunter-says

Looks like it's going to litigation.

Holydiver
11-14-2011, 03:05 PM
hahahahahahahahah yes

no LBJ championship

GoPacers33
11-14-2011, 03:08 PM
Smh
fml

sunnydayin'zona
11-14-2011, 03:09 PM
I'm kind of pissed off. This means we lose the season. I thought that deal available to them was fair. I thought that deal was good for all involved.

I even heard Kobe was in favor of it, if that pulls any weight at all.

On the plus side, as a Suns fan, I would love a 47/53 bri split. That means my owner can stop being cheap and start bringing in star power to fill our cap space.

Hopefully, though, nash and hill dont retire first

KnickNyKnick
11-14-2011, 03:09 PM
see you all next year :facepalm:

nickdymez
11-14-2011, 03:10 PM
No NBA... Oh well

Fresno
11-14-2011, 03:11 PM
Wow. No NBA season.

justinnum1
11-14-2011, 03:11 PM
hahahahahahahahah yes

no LBJ championship

pathetic

infernoscurse
11-14-2011, 03:13 PM
lol .....

SteBO
11-14-2011, 03:13 PM
This could very well be the biggest mistake the players will ever make at this point......if they lose in court, they're ****ed for a long time..

Holydiver
11-14-2011, 03:15 PM
****. The. NBA.

Rapsfanforlife
11-14-2011, 03:15 PM
These guys are greedy frigging morons. anyways...I'm sure there is more to it than what we will ever know, but on the surface, this is just brutal. The players are going to get completely screwed on any contract moving forward.

Question for everyone - when the players decertify, this means that all contracts are null and void correct? Does this also mean that when they do reach an agreement that everyone is a free Agent?

airronijordan
11-14-2011, 03:19 PM
*******!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope they realize that the NBA's image has just taken a severe blow and in my estimation will lose a lot of fans

rapsjaysfan88
11-14-2011, 03:20 PM
o I hope the players get completely shafted like 30% bri. they are just stupid...

Holydiver
11-14-2011, 03:21 PM
last year the "decision" this year the "indecision"

LakersKB24
11-14-2011, 03:24 PM
There goes OUR season... **** the players. **** the owners. **** the NBA!

Holydiver
11-14-2011, 03:24 PM
How are all of the players going to pay their possys?

Hawkeye15
11-14-2011, 03:25 PM
How stupid can the union be? Do they not realize that by going to court, they stand virtually no chance of getting a deal as good as what was just offered?

Thank you agents, Billy Hunter, and Derek Fisher for no season. I understand the owners have some blame in this outcome, but they offered a deal that should have been accepted, and it would have kept NBA athletes making far more money than athletes in other major sports.

Whatever.

Hawkeye15
11-14-2011, 03:26 PM
How are all of the players going to pay their posses?

I for one will find it hilarious over the next number of months as we read that this player and that player went broke. Not everyone has Kobe money. There are a ton of guys who live paycheck to paycheck, even though that doesn't make sense to someone making $50,000 a year.

sep11ie
11-14-2011, 03:27 PM
I wonder who has better lawyers... I hope the players get the shaft with no lube.

Sly Guy
11-14-2011, 03:27 PM
well, I can honestly say I'm with the players right now. They've been asked to give up both of the major points of emphasis in this CBA, both revenue sharing and restructuring FA.

I think the owners got a little too greedy in persuing both. They might have gotten away with one, but going for both was asking for trouble. Now we as fans are going to have to live with the fallout of not having the NBA this season.

AlexTmz2
11-14-2011, 03:27 PM
No Comment..

:down: :pity: :faint: :drunk:

Birdmannn
11-14-2011, 03:28 PM
Stupid people now your all going to lose money.
I kinda hope when it all comes back that BRI is around 2bil and they all **** themselves for not working this out.

rapsjaysfan88
11-14-2011, 03:30 PM
the players think this last offer was bad imagine the next. well atleast when the owners get everything they want the league will be better and it won't be run by the players.

J4KOP99
11-14-2011, 03:32 PM
All of you are coming out and claiming that the courts will rule against the NBAPA, but if this is so obvious, then why would the Players decertify and file an antitrust lawsuit?

They cannot possible be so dumb, can they? I mean, from my standpoint, I agree that they have little chance of getting a deal that would be considered better than the most recent deal offered by the owners. But again, why would the NBAPA do this if it seems so obvious to everyone else that their chances of getting a better deal are near impossible?

Players Associations have filed these suits before and they rarely work, right? During the NHL lockout, the courts ruled in favor of the owners, correct?

The only time I remember the courts ruling in favor of the players was when the NFL used replacement players... but even in that situation, I may have some facts mixed up.


Basically, I just do not get what is going on. It cannot be as obvious a wrong decision as everyone is making it out to be. I know many of the NBA players themselves are dumb, uneducated men, but they should have the proper representation... They can't possibly be weighing this entire situation on pride...

Hawkeye15
11-14-2011, 03:32 PM
the players think this last offer was bad imagine the next. well atleast when the owners get everything they want the league will be better and it won't be run by the players.

good point. The NBA has been run by players for a few years now. Way too much power amongst the employees.

I just don't understand how they think they will get a better deal by going to court.

Muttman73
11-14-2011, 03:32 PM
Fools, oh well...I won't miss 'em.

gotoHcarolina52
11-14-2011, 03:33 PM
I wonder who has better lawyers... I hope the players get the shaft with no lube.

The players just retained one of the best litigators in the country, David Boies.
http://www.bsfllp.com/lawyers/data/0001

Interesting tidbit: Boies represented the NFL (not the NFLPA) in their recent lockout-related litigation.

ClippersE.G
11-14-2011, 03:33 PM
hahahahahahahahah yes

no LBJ championship

That is prob why he doesnt care. hahahhah gives him an excuse not to win one haha

jkiddvc20
11-14-2011, 03:33 PM
**** this I am so ****ing done

Hawkeye15
11-14-2011, 03:33 PM
All of you are coming out and claiming that the courts will rule against the NBAPA, but if this is so obvious, then why would the Players decertify and file an antitrust lawsuit?

They cannot possible be so dumb, can they? I mean, from my standpoint, I agree that they have little chance of getting a deal that would be considered better than the most recent deal offered by the owners. But again, why would the NBAPA do this if it seems so obvious to everyone else that their chances of getting a better deal are near impossible?

Players Associations have filed these suits before and they rarely work, right? During the NHL lockout, the courts ruled in favor of the owners, correct?

The only time I remember the courts ruling in favor of the players was when the NFL used replacement players... but even in that situation, I may have some facts mixed up.


Basically, I just do not get what is going on. It cannot be as obvious a wrong decision as everyone is making it out to be. I know many of the NBA players themselves are dumb, uneducated men, but they should have the proper representation... They can't possibly be weighing this entire situation on pride...

we are all obviously hardcore fans of the sport, or we wouldn't be here. I will fully admit that I am more emotional about it than 95% of the planet. I just want basketball, so this pisses me off.

And yes, historically when players take their battle to court over CBA's, they don't fare well.

Hellcrooner
11-14-2011, 03:34 PM
wellcome to europe, enjoy your stay, and it its two years better yet :D

ClippersE.G
11-14-2011, 03:34 PM
well, I can honestly say I'm with the players right now. They've been asked to give up both of the major points of emphasis in this CBA, both revenue sharing and restructuring FA.

I think the owners got a little too greedy in persuing both. They might have gotten away with one, but going for both was asking for trouble. Now we as fans are going to have to live with the fallout of not having the NBA this season.

Yeah the longer you keep supporting the players the longer this goes on go ahead.

Holydiver
11-14-2011, 03:36 PM
The owners were so aghast at the collusion last summer they said they are taking back the league. We will never see that circus act again.

I am eternally grateful to the Dallas Mavericks

ClippersE.G
11-14-2011, 03:36 PM
By the way, heres to it going horrible for the players. Their twitter feeds made me hate them more and more. None of them care and they carry themselves like they are gods...

KnicksorBust
11-14-2011, 03:37 PM
well, I can honestly say I'm with the players right now. They've been asked to give up both of the major points of emphasis in this CBA, both revenue sharing and restructuring FA.

I think the owners got a little too greedy in persuing both. They might have gotten away with one, but going for both was asking for trouble. Now we as fans are going to have to live with the fallout of not having the NBA this season.

I agree. I'm honestly devastated right now. I live for pro basketball. But are the players really supposed to give up everything just for a season?

Stern's "concessions" are comical at best:

"We didn't instituite a hard cap" which would be new
"We dropped our demands against guaranteed contracts" which would be new
"We didn't roll back salaries" which would be new

It's not a concession if it wasn't there in the first place. To me he might as well be a Charlie Brown cartoon. "We didn't make the players get on their knees and kiss our feet." THAT'S NOT A CONCESSION!

I'm miserable but good for the players for showing some guts.

KobeOwnSU
11-14-2011, 03:37 PM
This is all gonna fall apart very quickly. the NBA will never be the same again.

Noob 559
11-14-2011, 03:39 PM
AHHHHHHHHHHHH ****!!!!! well i guess i'm done watching the n.b.a.

Holydiver
11-14-2011, 03:40 PM
This is all gonna fall apart very quickly. the NBA will never be the same again.

lets hope it can return to the era of Bird, Magic, and MJ where players cared more about rings than image

Tony_Starks
11-14-2011, 03:42 PM
Well so much for the "players will come running back and take whatever deal we offer once they start missing paychecks" theory. Im not mad at them, had these been legit negotiations instead of threats and ultimatums we would've had a season already.

Oh well, let the courts straighten it out........

Lloyd Christmas
11-14-2011, 03:42 PM
Oh well. My interest in college basketball just went through the roof.

Sinestro
11-14-2011, 03:43 PM
i agree. I'm honestly devastated right now. I live for pro basketball. But are the players really supposed to give up everything just for a season?

Stern's "concessions" are comical at best:

"we didn't instituite a hard cap" which would be new
"we dropped our demands against guaranteed contracts" which would be new
"we didn't roll back salaries" which would be new

it's not a concession if it wasn't there in the first place. To me he might as well be a charlie brown cartoon. "we didn't make the players get on their knees and kiss our feet." that's not a concession!

I'm miserable but good for the players for showing some guts.



+1

bears88
11-14-2011, 03:43 PM
Since The NBAPA said its going to De-certify , didn't the NBA say that it will void all the players contracts if the desertification happen ???

SteBO
11-14-2011, 03:43 PM
I agree. I'm honestly devastated right now. I live for pro basketball. But are the players really supposed to give up everything just for a season?

Stern's "concessions" are comical at best:

"We didn't instituite a hard cap" which would be new
"We dropped our demands against guaranteed contracts" which would be new
"We didn't roll back salaries" which would be new

It's not a concession if it wasn't there in the first place. To me he might as well be a Charlie Brown cartoon. "We didn't make the players get on their knees and kiss our feet." THAT'S NOT A CONCESSION!

I'm miserable but good for the players for showing some guts.
Yeah, but at what point do you ask yourself, "Is it worth the lost money and fanfare to stick with prinicple"? This was easily an acceptable deal, at least imo, and they turned it down. Sometimes, you have to reassume your position and look at the bigger picture. The players lose a lot more here by decertifying and if they lose in court, the owners can construct their own CBA. Then the players will ask themselves this:

"Why didn't our dumb***** take the deal we were offered on November 14th?"

Fresno
11-14-2011, 03:44 PM
Oh well. My interest in college basketball just went through the roof.

Hope you realize that games dont matter until January at the earliest.

KnicksorBust
11-14-2011, 03:44 PM
we are all obviously hardcore fans of the sport, or we wouldn't be here. I will fully admit that I am more emotional about it than 95% of the planet. I just want basketball, so this pisses me off.

And yes, historically when players take their battle to court over CBA's, they don't fare well.

You're probably under-estimating yourself or over-estimating how much other people care.

Dade County
11-14-2011, 03:46 PM
WTF!!!!! I came on here for some good new, then I see this ****.

jkiddvc20
11-14-2011, 03:49 PM
David Stern blaming the players right now on Sportscenter

Hawkeye15
11-14-2011, 03:50 PM
You're probably under-estimating yourself or over-estimating how much other people care.

I care more :)

jkiddvc20
11-14-2011, 03:51 PM
Watching David Stern I just want to punch him in the ****ing face

**** him and his ****ing turkey neck! :mad:

I am extremely ****ing irritated right now

ewmania
11-14-2011, 03:52 PM
lol funny how people blame the players when the owners are the cause of this lockout to begin with

Chacarron
11-14-2011, 03:53 PM
Eurobasket and College Ball here I come!

Confusious
11-14-2011, 03:54 PM
I for one will find it hilarious over the next number of months as we read that this player and that player went broke. Not everyone has Kobe money. There are a ton of guys who live paycheck to paycheck, even though that doesn't make sense to someone making $50,000 a year.
The more money you make, the more you lose.

rapsjaysfan88
11-14-2011, 03:54 PM
ugh now I have to watch freakin hockey all year.... what a nightmare.

Hawkeye15
11-14-2011, 03:54 PM
lol funny how people blame the players when the owners are the cause of this lockout to begin with

The owners had legit reason however. I hate the way both sides started this, by not talking for a long time. But when 72% of owners are losing money, do we really expect them to stay with the current system? Hell no.

ewing
11-14-2011, 03:55 PM
The more money you make, the more you lose.


Thats makes a lot of sense

Hellcrooner
11-14-2011, 03:56 PM
The owners had legit reason however. I hate the way both sides started this, by not talking for a long time. But when 72% of owners are losing money, do we really expect them to stay with the current system? Hell no.

how bout talking bout share revenues with the owners that DO get AWESOME benefits.

that woudl also lead to parity,

O wait, is much more easier for Mj to try to screw the player that fight with people MUCH richer than him like buss or dolan or cuban.....:rolleyes:

Hawkeye15
11-14-2011, 03:56 PM
The more money you make, the more you lose.

when you make it at such a young age, instead of learning the value of money, and how to properly save it, I agree. I can virtually guarantee you that after being in the real world for 13 years, and being a middle class citizen, if you gave me $20 million dollars, I would stretch it for the rest of my life and do it easily.

But pro athletes are so rich, so young, they don't understand how to manage money in many, many cases.

ChiSox219
11-14-2011, 03:57 PM
Hopefully when all the dust clears, the players get paid in peanuts, the owners financial statements bleed red, and the seats of NHL, NCAA, and NFL games become as desirable as ever.

Hawkeye15
11-14-2011, 03:58 PM
how bout talking bout share revenues with the owners that DO get AWESOME benefits.

that woudl also lead to parity,

O wait, is much more easier for Mj to try to screw the player that fight with people MUCH richer than him like buss or dolan or cuban.....:rolleyes:

I am not saying the owners have no fault here. They were very unorganized coming into the CBA talks. But at this point, the players need to understand they are getting as fair of a deal as the owners can offer, which will still allow them to be the highest paid athletes in the major sports, and a ton of the same benefits they have had for the last 30 years.

GodsSon
11-14-2011, 03:58 PM
This is going to be like the NHL lockout revisited. They're going to miss an entire year and probably lose the case in court; then the owners are going to institute a hard-cap, salary roll-backs, 47% BRI and the players will either have to accept, or go overseas for employment (which isn't happening).

Be prepared to get ****ed with no lube PA, the union and the agents.

Hellcrooner
11-14-2011, 04:00 PM
This is going to be like the NHL lockout revisited. They're going to miss an entire year and probably lose the case in court; then the owners are going to institute a hard-cap, salary roll-backs, 47% BRI and the players will either have to accept, or go overseas for employment (which isn't happening).

Be prepared to get ****ed with no lube PA, the union and the agents.

dont be so sure.:D i mean, Deron, Ak47, Rudy F, Ibaka, Batum etc are ALREADY here, once the season is already canceled how long do you think they wait to come here and collect some paychecks?

ewing
11-14-2011, 04:01 PM
Yeah, but at what point do you ask yourself, "Is it worth the lost money and fanfare to stick with prinicple"? This was easily an acceptable deal, at least imo, and they turned it down. Sometimes, you have to reassume your position and look at the bigger picture. The players lose a lot more here by decertifying and if they lose in court, the owners can construct their own CBA. Then the players will ask themselves this:

"Why didn't our dumb***** take the deal we were offered on November 14th?"


Agreed. Its not about who is the winner in the neogotation. It about what you can reasonable demand for your services going foward and I have trouble seeing how this will increase the value of playing basketball professionally. If these guys dont want to play they are free not too but imo not doing so will decrease the value of there skill

Marques24kobe
11-14-2011, 04:03 PM
Good bye NBA, you guys just messed up royally. You thought MLB took a hit when they striked?

Htownballa1622
11-14-2011, 04:04 PM
dont be so sure.:D i mean, Deron, Ak47, Rudy F, Ibaka, Batum etc are ALREADY here, once the season is already canceled how long do you think they wait to come here and collect some paychecks?

I know you get warm inside thinking about stars playing in europe but euro basketball will never be what the nba was and if they somehow restore the nba, players will run back sooner than later.

GodsSon
11-14-2011, 04:05 PM
dont be so sure.:D i mean, Deron, Ak47, Rudy F, Ibaka, Batum etc are ALREADY here, once the season is already canceled how long do you think they wait to come here and collect some paychecks?

Aside from Deron though, the rest of those guys are European. Going back home is always fairly easy. Can you imagine the superstars taking their prima donna attitudes and egos over there though? I sure as hell can't.

Hellcrooner
11-14-2011, 04:09 PM
Aside from Deron though, the rest of those guys are European. Going back home is always fairly easy. Can you imagine the superstars taking their prima donna attitudes and egos over there though? I sure as hell can't.

you mean like Dominique Wilkins? who played for panathinaikos then went back to nba?

ClippersE.G
11-14-2011, 04:11 PM
Players will never make it in europe because over there they actually have to do something besides just DUNK to be in their league. Or be tall

ClippersE.G
11-14-2011, 04:12 PM
Haha at the guy comparing this to slavery. Run of the mill Max Kellerman

Vincent33
11-14-2011, 04:20 PM
Wrong move NBPA...not a good decision

Kashmir13579
11-14-2011, 04:22 PM
College ball is better anyways.

Hawkeye15
11-14-2011, 04:24 PM
College ball is better anyways.

if you happen to be a fan of a great college team, which you are.

J4KOP99
11-14-2011, 04:29 PM
Yeah, Im not nearly as mad as some of you because I still have college basketball and my New York Rangers...

The NHL is so much better than the NBA and has been for years.

Tony_Starks
11-14-2011, 04:32 PM
One positive thing about this is hopefully it runs off all the fake nba fans. I've learned a whole lot during this lockout about peoples inner feelings, bitterness, jealousy, and downright dislike toward nba players in general.

So if you hate the players then here's your excuse to leave, please don't come back!

Slug3
11-14-2011, 04:35 PM
This is really going to be intersting in the courts now. But how will it work out if all the owners are not on the same page as well? This is going to get interesting.

GiantsSwaGG
11-14-2011, 04:36 PM
:dance:

DodgerBulls
11-14-2011, 04:37 PM
Is it too late to get into hockey this late of the season?

nickdymez
11-14-2011, 04:38 PM
Hope you realize that games dont matter until January at the earliest.

Hows that different than the NBA

CousinsEvansDUO
11-14-2011, 04:40 PM
Wow this is ridiculous! Sacramento was suppose to see the kings for at least another season and now that is gone. I blame this all on LeBron, stupid heat fans why couldn't you just accept the proposal and get this deal done with already.

Sly Guy
11-14-2011, 04:40 PM
Is it too late to get into hockey this late of the season?

no, believe me it's not. Now is right about the time my beloved Toronto Maple Leafs have their 'monumental' collapse dragging us to the bottom of the standings. You should watch, this kind of thing never gets old.

THE MTL
11-14-2011, 04:42 PM
I HATE THIS! But to tell the truth, the players should win in court. The new owners system is very drastic and it severely limits freedom, movement, and salaries. (all of which would be overturned in court). They basically hold players hostage at sites where they were drafted. Also by giving back 4% of the BRI, the owners already break even and demanding 7 - 10% reduction is being greedy.

Anyway, I really wanna see my knicks play. First time we are actually supposed to be good and have no chance!

Btw, when the NBA does eventually come back. Does that mean there will be a massive NBA redraft? Doesnt decertifying voids all NBA contracts?

TheRomanGod
11-14-2011, 04:43 PM
bye nba. TO THE NHL FORUM WE GO!

GiantsSwaGG
11-14-2011, 04:45 PM
Bad move by the players but as I expected there won't be a NBA season this year!

shep33
11-14-2011, 04:46 PM
Sad day, but honestly I've found myself more productive lol. I'm happy that the NFL, a real league, got stuff done.

ewing
11-14-2011, 04:48 PM
I HATE THIS! But to tell the truth, the players should win in court. The new owners system is very drastic and it severely limits freedom, movement, and salaries. (all of which would be overturned in court). They basically hold players hostage at sites where they were drafted. Also by giving back 4% of the BRI, the owners already break even and demanding 7 - 10% reduction is being greedy.

Anyway, I really wanna see my knicks play. First time we are actually supposed to be good and have no chance!

Btw, when the NBA does eventually come back. Does that mean there will be a massive NBA redraft? Doesnt decertifying voids all NBA contracts?

if owners want to make any profit at all they are being greedy?

hovyboo
11-14-2011, 04:49 PM
I recognize us NBA fans are upset. Let's be realistic here, imagine your boss made mistake, after mistake, after mistake and they expected you to cover the tab for their ignorance.

That's silly, the players are overpaid, trust me I agree, the players aren't financially savvy, I agree, but the owners are being unfair. They are taking everything from the players and are using the media to spin it like they're the good guys. The owner's sheer arrogance should make you guys side with the players, look how smug Stern is with his "take it or leave it stance."

If you guys are going to let Stern and the owners spin you a twister web of lies that's fine, but don't hate the players because they aren't accepting a bad deal. Imagine your job forced you to take less vacation days, accept less money and restricted every other perk you had. Well buddies the players are getting the same raw deal. I am probably the biggest basketball fan there is, or at least i feel that way. Even with that said I am more of fan of human rights, and social justice than any sport.

At this point the players should just sit out until they get a better deal, sit out an entire season if you have to, this year is already tarnished in my eyes. Just sit until you get a better deal, play in Europe, don't let corporate America bash you on the grandest scale of them all. DON'T GIVE UP PLAYERS!

Kevj77
11-14-2011, 04:51 PM
The players really tried to negotiate. They agreed to so many concessions. Some owners tried to negotiate, but I'm sure many owners where willing to lose the entire season go to court, which they will most likely win and force the deal they really wanted all along on the players. There should be equal blame all around.

The real result will be much less BRI for everyone when basketball comes back. Anyone here remember how much the 1994 MLB strike hurt baseball. It took years and a bunch of juiced up players hitting 60-70 homeruns to put fans back in the seats.

Hardcore fans will always come back. It's the casual fans that won't.

LakersKB24
11-14-2011, 04:53 PM
bye nba. TO THE NHL FORUM WE GO!

Isn't it kind of ironic that the NHL will profit from the NBA lockout after it's been suffering from it's own lost season for years? :p

Way to go NBA and NBPA! :facepalm:

McPeak92
11-14-2011, 04:53 PM
I hate Billy Hunter.

$KnicksAndKobe$
11-14-2011, 04:54 PM
Idiots.

THE MTL
11-14-2011, 04:57 PM
if owners want to make any profit at all they are being greedy?


Running a team is a business and you are never guaranteed profits in ANY business venture. With the new system, owners are guaranteed profits no matter what stupid mistakes they make.

Michael Jordan is such a hardline owner when he paid Tyrus Thomas 8 mil per season over 5 year span when NO ONE offered him that or anywhere close. Minny pays Darko 5 million per season, when Darko was going overseas. STUPD STUPID mistakes. And dont say that it was the structure of the last CBA deal, because no one really wanted these guys.

Hellcrooner
11-14-2011, 04:59 PM
I recognize us NBA fans are upset. Let's be realistic here, imagine your boss made mistake, after mistake, after mistake and they expected you to cover the tab for their ignorance.

That's silly, the players are overpaid, trust me I agree, the players aren't financially savvy, I agree, but the owners are being unfair. They are taking everything from the players and are using the media to spin it like they're the good guys. The owner's sheer arrogance should make you guys side with the players, look how smug Stern is with his "take it or leave it stance."

If you guys are going to let Stern and the owners spin you a twister web of lies that's fine, but don't hate the players because they aren't accepting a bad deal. Imagine your job forced you to take less vacation days, accept less money and restricted every other perk you had. Well buddies the players are getting the same raw deal. I am probably the biggest basketball fan there is, or at least i feel that way. Even with that said I am more of fan of human rights, and social justice than any sport.

At this point the players should just sit out until they get a better deal, sit out an entire season if you have to, this year is already tarnished in my eyes. Just sit until you get a better deal, play in Europe, don't let corporate America bash you on the grandest scale of them all. DON'T GIVE UP PLAYERS!

dont get fooled, thats more or less what the global finantial crisis is about. workers areoudn the globe losing emplyoment, sotial rights, freedom and etc to make up for tycoons mistakes.

still a fan
11-14-2011, 05:01 PM
I was the biggest supporter of the owners till Friday, when I actually learned all the intimacies of their proposal.

The players have some gripes as do some of the owners.

Does anyone realize if the players accepted the deal, any team over the cap by say 15 mil would pay 49mil in taxes? That is equal to 3 max players at over 16MIL to start each.

So if thats not a form of hard cap please tell what is?

So what does it truly mean? Means teams will not spend or can't spend for max players, the average players contracts will now be lowered to fit under the cap.

What were the players suppose to do? Yea okay 50/50 split on BRI? Yea right smoke and mirrors, Stern used that to get the rest of what his ultimate goal was.

So now players have no pay check and owners have no income from fans, and all of us should under no circumstance buy one NBA item till this is resolved.

I'll repeat, do not support the NBA, do not buy one tee shirt, cap etc....give Stern and company no income what so ever.

The ones who are hurt by all of this is us fans who paid all these salaries including Sterns and the owners.


My final take, this won't reach court, this was the players way of saying lets negotiate before it does by not accepting.

Nothing says before this goes to court in say a month or two that they can't talk again.

Stern needs to give a bit that much I've changed my toon on.

ewing
11-14-2011, 05:06 PM
I recognize us NBA fans are upset. Let's be realistic here, imagine your boss made mistake, after mistake, after mistake and they expected you to cover the tab for their ignorance.

That's silly, the players are overpaid, trust me I agree, the players aren't financially savvy, I agree, but the owners are being unfair. They are taking everything from the players and are using the media to spin it like they're the good guys. The owner's sheer arrogance should make you guys side with the players, look how smug Stern is with his "take it or leave it stance."

If you guys are going to let Stern and the owners spin you a twister web of lies that's fine, but don't hate the players because they aren't accepting a bad deal. Imagine your job forced you to take less vacation days, accept less money and restricted every other perk you had. Well buddies the players are getting the same raw deal. I am probably the biggest basketball fan there is, or at least i feel that way. Even with that said I am more of fan of human rights, and social justice than any sport.

At this point the players should just sit out until they get a better deal, sit out an entire season if you have to, this year is already tarnished in my eyes. Just sit until you get a better deal, play in Europe, don't let corporate America bash you on the grandest scale of them all. DON'T GIVE UP PLAYERS!



Wow how spolied are you? Nothing is being taken away from the players. You need to have something for it to be taken away. If my boss tried to change the terms of my employment and i did not have an option that allowed me to do better then the job with the changes offered i would say "yes sir" until i found that option.

By refusing the deal on the table the players are likely preventing an NBA season. History shows us that if this happens the value of the sport and hence the value of its players will go down. You dont negotiate for principals you negotiate for money and benifits. If your negotiating tactics decrease your value you are doing it wrong. If the players dont want to play under the terms offered that is their choice but they shouldn't make it b/c of there "rights" or "social justice". That theory just doesn't hold water. Being an NBA players isn't a right and value is detrimined by how much one is willing to pay for something not some vague idea of social justice. I'm personally disapointed and think that this will likely lead to there being less NBA players and basketball players getting paid less but again its the players choice to work or not

ewing
11-14-2011, 05:12 PM
Running a team is a business and you are never guaranteed profits in ANY business venture. With the new system, owners are guaranteed profits no matter what stupid mistakes they make.

Michael Jordan is such a hardline owner when he paid Tyrus Thomas 8 mil per season over 5 year span when NO ONE offered him that or anywhere close. Minny pays Darko 5 million per season, when Darko was going overseas. STUPD STUPID mistakes. And dont say that it was the structure of the last CBA deal, because no one really wanted these guys.


And the Suns sell every draft pick when they have the best record in the league and there biggest weakness is a bench. and paul gasol gets traded for cap space. etc etc. There are countless examples of teams throwing money away and teams being hamstrung by the system. Also, how would the new deal garuntee a profit for every owner?

beasted86
11-14-2011, 05:15 PM
It's pretty clear that the players are willing to take 50% without the slew of system limitations owners want to throw on top.

This league is going to remain in a lockout until the owners figure that out, or the anti-trust litigation is resolved in the courts.

VillaMaravilla
11-14-2011, 05:16 PM
amazing there isnt going to be any ball

camador22
11-14-2011, 05:19 PM
Blame the players not the owners. The NBA players are the highest payed players of any sport despite not being profitable. If Owners have lost 300M this season then players should take a cut as well. The NBA did not propose a hard cap and kept guarenteed contracts. The players choose the worng time to do this since it will be about another month before they could negotiate again. The court process is never quick and the very best we could hope for is 50 something games at this point. I personally think at this point the season is canceled because they won't intimidate the owners with a litigation.

ewing
11-14-2011, 05:23 PM
Blame the players not the owners. The NBA players are the highest payed players of any sport despite not being profitable. If Owners have lost 300M this season then players should take a cut as well. The NBA did not propose a hard cap and kept guarenteed contracts. The players choose the worng time to do this since it will be about another month before they could negotiate again. The court process is never quick and the very best we could hope for is 50 something games at this point. I personally think at this point the season is canceled because they won't intimidate the owners with a litigation.


I hope they do. However the owners really make there money in other ways and largely lose money by being an NBA owner. So how much does a lost season mean to them. IDK. Hopefully this doesn't go to court and doesn't cancel the season b/c that will be very difficult for the sport

beliges
11-14-2011, 05:25 PM
This essentially guarantees no season this year. The NBAPA will lose their lawsuit against the NBA because they have no legal basis and the there is no genuine issue of material fact to validate a lawsuit such as this. However one positive in all of this is that the players will no longer get anything close to the deal they were being offered and will have to humbled by the fact that ultimately the owners will win and have their way. I feel bad for those players that will not play another game in the NBA again because of one more added year of age. What a sad sight it is to know how many spoiled ignorant people we have in out society. This is a sad day for NBA fans and hopefully when the players ultimately get shafted by accepting a much lesser deal they will learn that they are the employees in this and not the owners.

smith&wesson
11-14-2011, 05:26 PM
:mad:

JNA17
11-14-2011, 05:27 PM
The players are idiots and now I side with the owners in this even more now. I hope most of the players go bankrupt, just so that maybe, JUST MAYBE, they will learn to swallow their ridicules pride and realize they are lucky to be making even 75% of their money just to put a ball in a hoop.

beliges
11-14-2011, 05:27 PM
It's pretty clear that the players are willing to take 50% without the slew of system limitations owners want to throw on top.

This league is going to remain in a lockout until the owners figure that out, or the anti-trust litigation is resolved in the courts.

The league is going to remain in a lockout until the players decide to take the deal the owners are throwing at them. The anti-trust litigation will not get the players very far because they dont a meritorious case. The law favors the owners in this suit. The players will be free to play elsewhere but the NBA will eventually resume with a collective bargaining deal favorable to the owners in place.

hard_candy
11-14-2011, 05:38 PM
The players are even dumber than I thought.

More-Than-Most
11-14-2011, 05:40 PM
I am all for it. The players caused this and it will bite them in the arse. I am so glad the owners kept their word when they promised to change things. THE NBA NEEDED CHANGE and the owners promised it... The players did not want much change but if the owners didn't ask for drastic changes how long would the nba have actually lasted anyway?

ink
11-14-2011, 05:48 PM
Certifiable morons. I don't even mind because I didn't like the deal for the league. But the players are absolutely ********. It's all for a misguided sense of anger and pride. Stupidity.

Oh well, NCAA here we go. :clap:

NBA_Starter
11-14-2011, 05:52 PM
The NBA is dead to me!

Shmontaine
11-14-2011, 05:53 PM
sigh... billy and derek have done a very poor job here, IMO...

question: who pays for the lawyers for the players??? what will the players do when they feel the lawyers are getting too much money?? i can only imagine they will take the lawyers to court...

Shmontaine
11-14-2011, 05:55 PM
The NBA is dead to me!

time for a new name...

Kashmir13579
11-14-2011, 06:01 PM
if you happen to be a fan of a great college team, which you are.

I'm going to the game tonight!:D

But Hawk, i'm more depressed over this NBA BS than i let on. Finally my Knicks have a somewhat respectable team... and this happens.

Sly Guy
11-14-2011, 06:06 PM
Certifiable morons. I don't even mind because I didn't like the deal for the league. But the players are absolutely ********. It's all for a misguided sense of anger and pride. Stupidity.

Oh well, NCAA here we go. :clap:

Is this all because they stirred the pot with the 'plantation overseer' inflammatory comments?

mdm692
11-14-2011, 06:06 PM
Thank you nbpa thank you players.

Anhways how does voiding players contracts, if it happens, workks when lockout resumes

ManningToTyree
11-14-2011, 06:14 PM
**** you NBAPA

da ThRONe
11-14-2011, 06:22 PM
Love the NBA, but won't lose any sleep over losing a year. This in the long haul will be better for the league. This current deal does nothing for parity at the top of the league. All it does is provide welfare for owners ensuring they turn a profit. Just another bailout for billioniare. I hope the owners win get their bailout and solid cap on spending because it's what's best for the team I support. I will do some with the extra money I won't spend on the NBA, and I'll play more ball hell even join a rec league. Once this is all settle next year I'll come back like nothing ever happened.

utl768
11-14-2011, 06:27 PM
if this was the plan they should have done it in july, right now the players have no leverage and this wont by them leverage since the nflpa already lost the same exact case at the 8th circuit

the season is 100 percent gone now and id even go as far as to say the next couple of months of next season are in jeporady

kjoke
11-14-2011, 06:29 PM
Just make sure we don't have to lose any of next season.

Punk
11-14-2011, 06:30 PM
Honestly, It's not so much the player's fault. Look at the B-list proposals and you will see why they could have shot down this thing.

It is unfair to want the owners to decide if the team your playing for gets contracted and you have no say so. Even worse, when your BRI goes down when a team is contracted.

Things like that are deal breakers.

gwrighter
11-14-2011, 06:32 PM
Still not official, the players have played their last card, its either accept the deal or throw away the season, they aren't going to be offered a better deal, they are dumb to decertify.

devilsheat25
11-14-2011, 06:37 PM
nm

beliges
11-14-2011, 06:37 PM
Honestly, It's not so much the player's fault. Look at the B-list proposals and you will see why they could have shot down this thing.

It is unfair to want the owners to decide if the team your playing for gets contracted and you have no say so. Even worse, when your BRI goes down when a team is contracted.

Things like that are deal breakers.

Its not unfair for the owners to decide anything. It is their team and they will decide how to pay their employee. If the workers dont like it they can go work elsewhere. Nobody is forcing any player to remain in the NBA.

Punk
11-14-2011, 06:46 PM
Its not unfair for the owners to decide anything. It is their team and they will decide how to pay their employee. If the workers dont like it they can go work elsewhere. Nobody is forcing any player to remain in the NBA.

No. It's OUR money going into these teams, therefore if they decide these decisions they should not be unfair in it.

If you honestly think the players can go elsewhere and the NBA stays afloat, your joking.

Take away Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Melo, Amare, Howard, Rose, Paul, Griffin, Pierce, Garnett, Rondo and the NBA is left with nothing and will not survive. Therefore, the players do deserve a say so.

GodsSon
11-14-2011, 06:48 PM
Its not unfair for the owners to decide anything. It is their team and they will decide how to pay their employee. If the workers dont like it they can go work elsewhere. Nobody is forcing any player to remain in the NBA.

This.

Any player, including the elite, have the option of going to go play overseas if they really want to play ball so bad. Fact is, very few of them actually will.

They want to be able to have their cake and eat it too and that's too bad for them.

Punk
11-14-2011, 06:53 PM
Lol

If star players leave the league for good, business goes bad and the NBA wouldn't last for long. C'mon now.

Star players create endorsements, merchandise, ratings, etc. Take it away and it is a irreverent league which leads to people selling those franchises.

KnickFanSince91
11-14-2011, 06:53 PM
The owners are behaving like spoiled brats.

Owners: I can't make any money because your contracts are too high.

Players: We only cash the checks you write. It's not our fault.

Owners: Well that's not fair. How bout you take less money and cosign these rules to save me from my own stupidity?

Players: No.

Owners: Fine screw you! I'm taking my court and will pout until I get my way.


Stern can bash the players in the media all he wants but there's no reason they couldn't split this thing down the middle. They have been negotiating in bad faith and banking on the fact that the players will accept anything after they miss the first check. Who do they think they're fooling? They lost money due to poor management. How is a hard cap, lower salaries and shorter contracts going to make them better managers?

Are those things going to suddenly make teams in weak markets make money? No. The NBA either needs to contract or install a revenue sharing model similar to the NFL/MLB. This is something that needs to be worked out among the owners and has nothing to do with the players.

beliges
11-14-2011, 06:55 PM
No. It's OUR money going into these teams, therefore if they decide these decisions they should not be unfair in it.

If you honestly think the players can go elsewhere and the NBA stays afloat, your joking.

Take away Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Melo, Amare, Howard, Rose, Paul, Griffin, Pierce, Garnett, Rondo and the NBA is left with nothing and will not survive. Therefore, the players do deserve a say so.

No, when "WE" as fans buy tickets or spent money on our favorite NBA teams, its the "OWNERS'" money. Its called making a return on your investment. Its not the "players'" money because well, they dont own the team. I completely agree with you that the players deserve a say. If the players were getting shafted and were not being fairly compensated, Id be all for the players to stand up and demand changes. However, the fact remains that NBA players are better compensated and enjoy more player friendly contracts than any other professional American sport. Also keep in mind, without the NBA, Lebron, Wade, Amare Howard and the rest of the guys you mentioned above would not be able to attain anything close to the notoriety than they did playing for the league. ANd the reason why the NBA will stay afloat is because there is no other stage on the planet for a basketball player to earn such a high paycheck that the players will not go elsewhere and play. Even with the new deal the owners have proposed, there is no forum any basketball player can go and enjoy the same paycheck they can in the NBA. The players can ***** and whine all they want, but its no surprise why nobody leaves the NBA to play elsewhere. Players are free to go where ever they want to play. They do not have to play in the Association.

GodsSon
11-14-2011, 06:56 PM
Lol

If star players leave the league for good, business goes bad and the NBA wouldn't last for long. C'mon now.

Star players create endorsements, merchandise, ratings, etc. Take it away and it is a irreverent league which leads to people selling those franchises.

Within 3-4 years the league would be replenished with new stars via the draft route. How long do you think these current star players would put pride and principles above money??? I'd give it 3 months.

KnickFanSince91
11-14-2011, 06:59 PM
Its not unfair for the owners to decide anything. It is their team and they will decide how to pay their employee. If the workers dont like it they can go work elsewhere. Nobody is forcing any player to remain in the NBA.

Nobody is forcing the players to eat ***** because the owners tell them it's sugar either. People aren't packing arenas to see Dolan and Cuban. Without the players, the owners have NO PRODUCT to market and profit from. They need to approach the table as equal partners instead of Boss-Employee because they both need each other equally.

Punk
11-14-2011, 07:01 PM
Within 3-4 years the league would be replenished with new stars via the draft route. How long do you think these current star players would put pride and principles above money??? I'd give it 3 months.

Doesn't work that way. You cannot just assume college guys will draw attention.

if LeBron and the elite class of stars are out then they will lose tons of money. Nobody will pay attention to rookies.

If someone else creates a league like the NBA and all the stars go there, do you really think people will continue to watch the NBA with a star-less bunch of guys?

Punk
11-14-2011, 07:03 PM
Owners: They need to have a product to make money from.

Players: Have other options if they are not apart of the NBA.

The players need the large paychecks but it isn't impossible to get paid like that in another league or creating another league. If the players and brands create their own league, they will make money off of TV deals and other outlets which would make that other league thrive which is why the NBA can lose it's players and damage the league more than they think.

Both sides lose but the players can have more leverage if billion dollar brands like Nike, Addias fund a league of their own for their clients.

beliges
11-14-2011, 07:07 PM
Nobody is forcing the players to eat ***** because the owners tell them it's sugar either. People aren't packing arenas to see Dolan and Cuban. Without the players, the owners have NO PRODUCT to market and profit from. They need to approach the table as equal partners instead of Boss-Employee because they both need each other equally.

Equal partners? The owners are the ones taking ALL of the financial risk in this and you expect them to be equal partners? What kind of nonsense is that? The reality is they are not equal partners. The owners have hundreds of millions invested in this league and their franchises while the players have absolutely NOTHING of their own invested. They simply perform their contractual obligations and cash their paychecks. The owners are NOT forcing the players to eat anything. Once again, ill repeat, NBA players make more money on average than any other professional American sport. On top of that, they have the most player friendly contracts out of any American professional sport. So NBA players are already doing better than any other professional sports league in this country. And basketball will always exist and players will always want to play in the NBA because the NBA provides players the ability to make the most money out of any other basketball league in the world. So even if all of the star players leave the league, new stars will come in and make the league viable again. These players get replaced every 5years or so. There is always a new influx of young talent coming into the league. So, sorry, but this is an employee-employer type of thing and the players are the employees. They can either invest hundreds of millions of their own dollars and start a team, they can go play elsewhere, or not they can accept a deal much less favorable to them than has been offered so far and get back to work.

Bruno
11-14-2011, 07:11 PM
The players should have taken the deal allowing them the opportunity to get over 50% when it was on the table. We aren't getting a 2012 season. I'm pissed at both the players and small market owners demanding 53% for themselves.

Hellcrooner
11-14-2011, 07:13 PM
time for a new name...

euroleague.

there you have your new name.

Punk
11-14-2011, 07:13 PM
I'm sure brands like THQ and 2K must be pissed. This will lead to less buys with NBA2k13 if people know they will be without 120 NBA players.

Tony_Starks
11-14-2011, 07:16 PM
Lol

If star players leave the league for good, business goes bad and the NBA wouldn't last for long. C'mon now.

Star players create endorsements, merchandise, ratings, etc. Take it away and it is a irreverent league which leads to people selling those franchises.


No man, you didn't get the memo? The stars easily replaceable. So what if most of them only come along once in a decade or so. This is just like the grocery store strike man. You take away Kobe, Lebron, Wade, CP3.... and they can just go get Willy Jenkins and friends off the street and the league never misses a beat!

GodsSon
11-14-2011, 07:20 PM
Doesn't work that way. You cannot just assume college guys will draw attention.

if LeBron and the elite class of stars are out then they will lose tons of money. Nobody will pay attention to rookies.

If someone else creates a league like the NBA and all the stars go there, do you really think people will continue to watch the NBA with a star-less bunch of guys?

There's always the next big thing. The players would come crawling back before anything though.

Punk
11-14-2011, 07:23 PM
Because there is nothing like the NBA but that doesn't mean they should accept an unfair deal.

Players & Owners rule the league. Owners will still lose profit and they will crawl back as well.

Grifftiggs
11-14-2011, 07:27 PM
NBA owners: Jerry M. Reinsdorf s a CPA, lawyer, Paul Allen co-founded Microsoft, Mickey Arison - worlds largest cruise operator, Jerry Buss - businessman got his PH'D at USC, Dan Gilbert founder of Rock Financial and Quicken Loans, Peter M. Holt owner of (Spurs) the largest Caterpillar dealership in the United States and chairman, Mark Cuban - NetTV, Jordan - created the "Jordan" Brand, Glen Taylor (Wolves) former senator and executive education program for business owners and presidents at Harvard Business School. just to name a few - --
Most players became rich why???? I wish I could demand 53% of my bosses income even though I never put a dime into their business. Good Luck NBA players you are going to need it.

Punk
11-14-2011, 07:37 PM
And if those owners are so successful, then go sell the team.

KnickFanSince91
11-14-2011, 07:39 PM
Equal partners? The owners are the ones taking ALL of the financial risk in this and you expect them to be equal partners? What kind of nonsense is that? The reality is they are not equal partners. The owners have hundreds of millions invested in this league and their franchises while the players have absolutely NOTHING of their own invested. They simply perform their contractual obligations and cash their paychecks. The owners are NOT forcing the players to eat anything.
The players invest their health and bodies. The owners sit in the box (if they show up) and never break a sweat. They make all of their money from the efforts of the players. If fans don't come out or tune in to see the players, the owners don't turn a profit. What do you think they are crying about competitive balance for? If they had revenue sharing, you would see a bunch of teams like the Pittsburgh Pirates in the NBA.




Once again, ill repeat, NBA players make more money on average than any other professional American sport. On top of that, they have the most player friendly contracts out of any American professional sport. So NBA players are already doing better than any other professional sports league in this country.

Do the players write their own checks? If the owners smartened up and decided they weren't going overpay, the salaries would drop. Look at the Osi situation on the Giants...there wasn't an owner in the league that was going to pay him what he thought he was worth, so he just started playing out his contract. The NBA owners practice bad business so it's their burden to fix the model, not the players.



And basketball will always exist and players will always want to play in the NBA because the NBA provides players the ability to make the most money out of any other basketball league in the world. So even if all of the star players leave the league, new stars will come in and make the league viable again. These players get replaced every 5years or so. There is always a new influx of young talent coming into the league. So, sorry, but this is an employee-employer type of thing and the players are the employees. They can either invest hundreds of millions of their own dollars and start a team, they can go play elsewhere, or not they can accept a deal much less favorable to them than has been offered so far and get back to work.

Yes the game will always exist but they dont have to play in the NBA. The players are not broke, there are owners of other sports and cats with money that can't get approved to be NBA owners that would jump at the chance to start a franchise. What happens if Kobe, LBJ and the best stars out of college ran to another league or Europe? What are the owners left with? A lackluster product like the WNBA. It's a partnership because the NBA cannot survive without the players and the players cannot earn a big paycheck without the resources of the owners.

NYKalltheway
11-14-2011, 07:40 PM
too much to read in 5 minutes... Is the season officially over??

Punk
11-14-2011, 07:40 PM
daldridgetnt David Aldridge
The law firm of Winer, Aldridge, Kasten, McCann and @3Deezy gets together at 7 on @NBATV to break it down, disclaimer of interest style!

Punk
11-14-2011, 07:41 PM
too much to read in 5 minutes... Is the season officially over??

Not at all but the chances of a season went from 50% to 20%

ClippersE.G
11-14-2011, 07:42 PM
People taking sides is ridiculous, but to take the side of the players is even more ridiculous.

YungIce12
11-14-2011, 07:48 PM
If we aren't going to get a season, at least we can start practicing early for the Olympics.

Cosmic_Canon
11-14-2011, 07:49 PM
One positive thing about this is hopefully it runs off all the fake nba fans. I've learned a whole lot during this lockout about peoples inner feelings, bitterness, jealousy, and downright dislike toward nba players in general.

So if you hate the players then here's your excuse to leave, please don't come back!

I know people hate the fake fans, but those jealous/fair-weather fans are essential to the NBA. Those fans will watch games to root against players(Heat last year), and represent a good portion of the viewership of the NBA.


W/ that said, this thread has been fantastic.
So many great arguments being said for both sides(pro-player or pro-owner), it's entertaining to see people have a civilized discussion and KNOW what they're talking about. Best thread on this forum in a while, clap it guys, you're doing great. :clap:

Hellcrooner
11-14-2011, 07:52 PM
If we aren't going to get a season, at least we can start practicing early for the Olympics.

why should nba players play in the olympics after waht is happening?

Punk
11-14-2011, 07:55 PM
Also, if they did accept the deal there was alot of talk about Herb Kohl and a few other owners looking to sell their teams. So, if they did vote in favor there was no guarantee it would pass on the owners side.

Tony_Starks
11-14-2011, 08:09 PM
I know people hate the fake fans, but those jealous/fair-weather fans are essential to the NBA. Those fans will watch games to root against players(Heat last year), and represent a good portion of the viewership of the NBA.

W/ that said, this thread has been fantastic.
So many great arguments being said for both sides(pro-player or pro-owner), it's entertaining to see people have a civilized discussion and KNOW what they're talking about. Best thread on this forum in a while, clap it guys, you're doing great. :clap:


I guess you are right on that one. The very fact that people come into a NBA forum for the express purpose of sayin how much they hate the NBA proves that. It makes for good debate I guess. I don't see that with any other sport though. I think hockey is horrible but you'll never see me in a hockey forum complaining about how hockey players are overpaid, no talent, glorified street brawlers.

Punk
11-14-2011, 08:12 PM
The good news is depending on how fast they file it and how fast it gets put through, a judge could make a decision soon or possibly not soon.

I feel bad for the 2011 draft class.

itsripcity32
11-14-2011, 08:13 PM
I know people hate the fake fans, but those jealous/fair-weather fans are essential to the NBA. Those fans will watch games to root against players(Heat last year), and represent a good portion of the viewership of the NBA.


W/ that said, this thread has been fantastic.
So many great arguments being said for both sides(pro-player or pro-owner), it's entertaining to see people have a civilized discussion and KNOW what they're talking about. Best thread on this forum in a while, clap it guys, you're doing great. :clap:

that's not what a fair weather fan is. a fair weather fan is one who jumps ships or only roots for their team when they are good. like how hundreds and thousands and millions of knicks and heats fan popped up

rooting against a team doesnt mean ur a fan of that team's opponenet

gotoHcarolina52
11-14-2011, 08:14 PM
The good news is depending on how fast they file it and how fast it gets put through, a judge could make a decision soon or possibly not soon.

So, in other words, no one has a damn clue.

Punk
11-14-2011, 08:16 PM
So, in other words, no one has a damn clue.

Nah, what is means is they still have a chance at negotiating and getting a deal done before the courts or after a judge rules which could be in 1 or 2 months or longer.

Punk
11-14-2011, 08:18 PM
Wow, An anti-trust lawsuit itself can take up to 7 years if it becomes complex.

Good god.

gotoHcarolina52
11-14-2011, 08:20 PM
Nah, what is means is they still have a chance at negotiating and getting a deal done before the courts or after a judge rules which could be in 1 or 2 months or longer.

Yes, but as the latter part of your post suggests no one knows how soon this will get resolved.

netsgiantsyanks
11-14-2011, 08:23 PM
:pity:

Punk
11-14-2011, 08:32 PM
Why did they take so damn long to do this?

bmd1101
11-14-2011, 08:35 PM
Why did they take so damn long to do this?

Hoping the owners would negotiate in good faith for a deal without having to resort to courts. They obviously haven't.

Cosmic_Canon
11-14-2011, 08:38 PM
I guess you are right on that one. The very fact that people come into a NBA forum for the express purpose of sayin how much they hate the NBA proves that. It makes for good debate I guess. I don't see that with any other sport though. I think hockey is horrible but you'll never see me in a hockey forum complaining about how hockey players are overpaid, no talent, glorified street brawlers.

Honestly, I believe those who hate on the players, w/ comments like"Nba players are greedy uneducated thugs" verge from deep seethed racism and/or ignorance.

Punk
11-14-2011, 08:40 PM
Hoping the owners would negotiate in good faith for a deal without having to resort to courts. They obviously haven't.
They haven't been negotiating in good faith for the last 2 years now. What made them think they would now?

Sactown
11-14-2011, 08:43 PM
This is dumb :pity: I live for the NBA

pstuart13
11-14-2011, 08:47 PM
http://youtu.be/a5R_pS0h5Qk

still a fan
11-14-2011, 08:49 PM
My bet is in about a week the owners and players will sit down again.

This time reality needs to set in on both sides, personally I'm fed up with both sides, and how this panned out.

C-Style
11-14-2011, 08:53 PM
i am so disappointed in these players. Can you imagine of all the things we are being robbed of? The great games, the buzzer beaters, fights...

koreancabbage
11-14-2011, 08:58 PM
Doesn't work that way. You cannot just assume college guys will draw attention.

if LeBron and the elite class of stars are out then they will lose tons of money. Nobody will pay attention to rookies.

If someone else creates a league like the NBA and all the stars go there, do you really think people will continue to watch the NBA with a star-less bunch of guys?

the NBA will replenish itself for sure. Players will go else where but the talent level around them wouldn't be the same.

I say let the big ticket players leave, endorse the NCAA basketball rules (more physical) and have a hard cap.

NCAA > NBA anyways. its more enjoyable to watch - more team play. NBA has become a soft selfish egotistical place where players dictate where they wanna go and leave the owners and GMs at their mercy. I would like to see less owners and GMs taken as hostages by the players they pay.

daleja424
11-14-2011, 09:00 PM
I blame everyone. Stern and the owners were dicks and put the players in a bad position. And the players handled that situation like a group of preteen girls.

Morons left and right in that league.

Cosmic_Canon
11-14-2011, 09:06 PM
i am so disappointed in these players. Can you imagine of all the things we are being robbed of? The great games, the buzzer beaters, fights...

Great sig :)

Crackadalic
11-14-2011, 09:08 PM
FML. Really though? Both sides are at faults for letting it comes this far

Punk
11-14-2011, 09:11 PM
You guys are honestly crazy if you think the star players can just disappear and the NBA will be fine because a few college guys come in. Doesn't work that way.

Jays Claw
11-14-2011, 09:15 PM
I sort of had the odd feeling back in September that a deal wouldn't be reached. I'm of no surprise. Both the players and owners (and Stern) are at fault for letting it get this far while the fans make out as the biggest losers of it all.

mike_noodles
11-14-2011, 09:16 PM
Because of the loss of this season, I can guarantee (and you can quote me) that at least two teams will have to relocate due to lack of fan support following the lockout.

koreancabbage
11-14-2011, 09:22 PM
You guys are honestly crazy if you think the star players can just disappear and the NBA will be fine because a few college guys come in. Doesn't work that way.

the NBA will survive. and new stars will come out of the bushes. and the NBA will take a hit. but some of these stars were nobodies before. they have to start somewhere. the salary of each team would be way down and owners can enjoy profits while having the better NBA product game on the floor. Owners should profit to begin with. This is their company that they are running. If owners are losing money, employees are the first to go. trim salary. It should be the owners' decisions for everything.

yes i'm endorsing NCAA rules to begin with.

koreancabbage
11-14-2011, 09:25 PM
anyways, that last deal offered to the players wasn't even bad!

Jays Claw
11-14-2011, 09:26 PM
^ I'm pretty sure the majority of NBA fans would divert their attention to whatever league the so-called 'stars' go to.

I for one won't waste my time watching a bunch of rookies play when I could watch the likes of Dirk, LBJ etc. tear it up in some other league.

SportsAndrew25
11-14-2011, 09:27 PM
I will see you guys next season. For now, SportsAndrew25, so long. :facepalm:

koreancabbage
11-14-2011, 09:29 PM
^ I'm pretty sure the majority of NBA fans would divert their attention to whatever league the so-called 'stars' go to.

not so sure. the league wouldn't be the USA. the NBA wouldn't allow it.

and the salaries for those players (if it was in the States) would not be as much if they just accepted the deal.

still a fan
11-14-2011, 09:31 PM
^ I'm pretty sure the majority of NBA fans would divert their attention to whatever league the so-called 'stars' go to.

I for one won't waste my time watching a bunch of rookies play when I could watch the likes of Dirk, LBJ etc. tear it up with some other league.

Well some will go to Europe, actually some are there already playing.

A new league will not happen, its just not that easy, and the agents who have way too much control of the players aren't going to risk their money now are they?

who will cover insurance, where will they play, how many teams could they form, it would get old really fast.


I hope there are scab games, I remember back when the NFL had superstars cross the line it was great, the games were actually fun to watch.

LT crossing was awesome, he packed the stands all by himself.

koreancabbage
11-14-2011, 09:31 PM
^ I'm pretty sure the majority of NBA fans would divert their attention to whatever league the so-called 'stars' go to.

I for one won't waste my time watching a bunch of rookies play when I could watch the likes of Dirk, LBJ etc. tear it up in some other league.

i wouldn't watch one player rip up a crappy league.

koreancabbage
11-14-2011, 09:32 PM
Well some will go to Europe, actually some are there already playing.

A new league will not happen, its just not that easy, and the agents who have way too much control of the players aren't going to risk their money now are they?

who will cover insurance, where will they play, how many teams could they form, it would get old really fast.


I hope there are scab games, I remember back when the NFL had superstars cross the line it was great, the games were actually fun to watch.

LT crossing was awesome, he packed the stands all by himself.

agreed.

Jays Claw
11-14-2011, 09:42 PM
not so sure. the league wouldn't be the USA. the NBA wouldn't allow it.

and the salaries for those players (if it was in the States) would not be as much if they just accepted the deal.

You can't just poof these guys away to some other dimension. They're supremely talented players who have thousands of followers who wouldn't mind supporting them even if they're playing for a different league, in a different country. Certain teams in Europe and China are willing to pay top dollar for the services of Kobe, LBJ, Wade, Dirk etc. Why wouldn't they play outside of the US if it's the only way they can make money? Basketball is their livelihood and I can guarantee you that they won't settle for day jobs in the US just because of housing reasons.

And I'm sorry but I'm not quite sure what you mean by saying that the NBA won't allow another league in the USA. The US government runs the NBA, not the other way around. The only thing the NBA has over the other leagues are those deep-pocketed oweners who wouldn't be making much money by endorsing/producing/marketing a bunch of rookies and no-names.

Jays Claw
11-14-2011, 09:45 PM
Well some will go to Europe, actually some are there already playing.

A new league will not happen, its just not that easy, and the agents who have way too much control of the players aren't going to risk their money now are they?

who will cover insurance, where will they play, how many teams could they form, it would get old really fast.


I hope there are scab games, I remember back when the NFL had superstars cross the line it was great, the games were actually fun to watch.

LT crossing was awesome, he packed the stands all by himself.

I'm not insisting a new league be built. koreancabbage brought up the idea of letting all the stars go and having the NBA be 'replenished' by bringing in NCAA guys and rookies. Where do the stars go? A new league has to be built then if they plan on playing within the USA, no? And what happens to those NCAA guys/rookies once they make a name for themselves and demand more money? Do we just kick them out as well and start from scratch once again?

superwill
11-14-2011, 09:49 PM
This not the players fault how the hell can the owners try an keep player form going where ever the hell they want to go and for as the ten owners that lost money ****m its business ur not promised a got damn profit this is business there is a chance u might lose money and ur tonnage lose money when u give player's contracts that don't make sense see Atlanta Joe Johnson nobody told them to do that............and p.s. most of the 130 players that signed to Desertification were from the 10 teams that were *****ing about they can't make money

still a fan
11-14-2011, 10:02 PM
I'm not insisting a new league be built. koreancabbage brought up the idea of letting all the stars go and having the NBA be 'replenished' by bringing in NCAA guys and rookies. Where do the stars go? A new league has to be built then if they plan on playing within the USA, no? And what happens to those NCAA guys/rookies once they make a name for themselves and demand more money? Do we just kick them out as well and start from scratch once again?

Well I still don't think its over yet:

Players will miss there paychecks, let us not forget that the NBA average salary is just over 5 mil with the top 50 guys making over 12-14 mil which means the other 400 salaries are basically under 2 mil and they need their paychecks.

So what will the superstars do, not play? I think the average player will want to play his dream out, as an NBA player, so the union will hate them?

Oh wait there isn't a union anymore? So now the average players all need to get together and say, its nice the guys making 15 - 20 Mil have enough put away for a rainy day or have commercials making them millions are we suppose to go be waiters now?

Europe will take so many players, I think if it doesn't get resolved sooner than later it will get even uglier before it even goes to court, big time players will sign elsewhere and there will be no resolve at all.

Heediot
11-14-2011, 10:14 PM
When allstars like Rudy gay and Joe Johnson have bad contracts you know there is something wrong with the system, just sayin'...

Crackadalic
11-14-2011, 11:15 PM
I would love more team ball like the NCAA in the NBA but lets be honest. The NBA makes more money not from the true fans but the casual fans that like to watch the star players play aka the Lebron and Kobe's of the world.

ink
11-15-2011, 12:00 AM
Love the NBA, but won't lose any sleep over losing a year. This in the long haul will be better for the league. This current deal does nothing for parity at the top of the league. All it does is provide welfare for owners ensuring they turn a profit. Just another bailout for billioniare. I hope the owners win get their bailout and solid cap on spending because it's what's best for the team I support. I will do some with the extra money I won't spend on the NBA, and I'll play more ball hell even join a rec league. Once this is all settle next year I'll come back like nothing ever happened.

I totally agree. Solid cap on spending over bailout any day. Good way of putting it.

D1JM
11-15-2011, 12:05 AM
When allstars like Rudy gay and Joe Johnson have bad contracts you know there is something wrong with the system, just sayin'...

Nothing wrong with the system. Blame the owners for overspending

utl768
11-15-2011, 12:11 AM
i really hope guys like lebron and kobe go overseas

Ill21
11-15-2011, 12:18 AM
Im starting to get worried that this wont be settled by the start of next year.

King P
11-15-2011, 12:22 AM
Hopefully they can get this fixed by the start of next season.

LA_Raiders
11-15-2011, 12:52 AM
this might take months if lucky...

Punk
11-15-2011, 12:59 AM
Gay was semi overpaid. Joe was extremely overpaid.

da ThRONe
11-15-2011, 01:00 AM
Nothing wrong with the system. Blame the owners for overspending

Something is most definitely wrong with the system. Not to give these franchises (from the top to the bottom) passes, but how if your ATL do you explain to your fanbase you are serious about winning then let Joe Johnson leave via FA when you had the chance to keep him. The system puts ownership in a bad place either do the smart thing and let a player leave or do the dumb thing and keep your fanbase happy.

Punk
11-15-2011, 01:00 AM
Honestly, I won't really feel as bad if ESPN shows Euroleague games consistently.

Cal827
11-15-2011, 01:06 AM
Well this was productive.... So they want to make sure that every player in the union gets as much as possible.... they are aware that the decertification will likely ruin the season and cause some fringe fan bases to basically completely abandon their team? This would cause layoffs, and likely contraction of some of those teams, costing players jobs in the NBA. I can imagine that the everyday player is probably quite pissed off right about now.
I'm on the players side for the most part, but they should have taken this deal. It was the best possible... now we are going to watch them converge to the owners, like what happened in the NHL. Hunter is the dumbest leader I've ever seen. You would think he would use the NHL as a precedent for what's going to happen.

quietstorm80
11-15-2011, 01:17 AM
If I was the NBA I would be alittle concerned about the longterm affects of their stars playing overseas. Basketball is the 2nd most popular sport in world ( thanks to the NBA marketing efforts). What if the teams in Europe and China are able to compete financially with the NBA? We could see a day when SOME of our stars don't even play in the U.S. Similar to when Dr. J played in the ABA or when Herschel Walker and Reggie White played in the USFL

Hellcrooner
11-15-2011, 01:21 AM
If I was the NBA I would be alittle concerned about the longterm affects of their stars playing overseas. Basketball is the 2nd most popular sport in world ( thanks to the NBA marketing efforts). What if the teams in Europe and China are able to compete financially with the NBA? We could see a day when SOME of our stars don't even play in the U.S. Similar to when Dr. J played in the ABA or when Herschel Walker and Reggie White played in the USFL
if the lockout last two entire seasons is not out of the realm that euroleague finally raises their long projected Nba style league with the best teams in the continent, wich COULD generate enough income to pay them similar salarys.
Understanding than in europe theres no draft, no salary cap, no max contract / you can play as much as you want, players can ask to be traded at ANY moment and be traded just for money etc etc, they could EASILY decide that they would be better there.

Thats the risk nba is taking.

The sooner owners and stern they stop the nosense and back down some of their ridiculous requirements the better for the future of the league.

da ThRONe
11-15-2011, 01:25 AM
If I was the NBA I would be alittle concerned about the longterm affects of their stars playing overseas. Basketball is the 2nd most popular sport in world ( thanks to the NBA marketing efforts). What if the teams in Europe and China are able to compete financially with the NBA? We could see a day when SOME of our stars don't even play in the U.S. Similar to when Dr. J played in the ABA or when Herschel Walker and Reggie White played in the USFL

This is an interesting aspect. If the players impact over seas becomes one that is very lucrative, I could see overseas leagues' offer big money for some key players to stay. There's no cap on their spending that I know off. So if a player raises the value of their team 100% I can see this.

Sinestro
11-15-2011, 01:31 AM
if the lockout last two entire seasons is not out of the realm that euroleague finally raises their long projected Nba style league with the best teams in the continent, wich COULD generate enough income to pay them similar salarys.
Understanding than in europe theres no draft, no salary cap, no max contract / you can play as much as you want, players can ask to be traded at ANY moment and be traded just for money etc etc, they could EASILY decide that they would be better there.

Thats the risk nba is taking.

The sooner owners and stern they stop the nosense and back down some of their ridiculous requirements the better for the future of the league.



I have no idea why NBA players can be such babies when it comes to playing overseas, in the soccer world its not that strange to see a player play in 2-3 different leagues in different countries over the course of their career and as you stated the freedoms are very enticing and teams like Real Madrid and Barcelona have more than enough $ to pay good salaries

beliges
11-15-2011, 04:27 AM
if the lockout last two entire seasons is not out of the realm that euroleague finally raises their long projected Nba style league with the best teams in the continent, wich COULD generate enough income to pay them similar salarys.
Understanding than in europe theres no draft, no salary cap, no max contract / you can play as much as you want, players can ask to be traded at ANY moment and be traded just for money etc etc, they could EASILY decide that they would be better there.

Thats the risk nba is taking.

The sooner owners and stern they stop the nosense and back down some of their ridiculous requirements the better for the future of the league.

The NBA will always take a big poop on any other basketball league on the planet. NBA is the best forum in the world as a basketball player to play ball and will be even after this entire lockout is finally over.

With that said, I certainly wouldnt mind watching some Euroleague now that its very likely theres gonna be no season.

Hellcrooner
11-15-2011, 04:29 AM
GM will always take a big poop on any other car brand on the planet. GM is the best seller in the world as a car to have quality and will be forever adn ever better over those crapy japanese cars or euro cars and sell more than them buaha ha ha america america america!!!! .

thats you 35 years ago.

beliges
11-15-2011, 04:35 AM
thats you 35 years ago.

Wasnt alive 35 years go. But I can tell you GM was never considered the finest engineered automobile on the planet by many people. Whereas the NBA is more like a Rolls Royce.

Hellcrooner
11-15-2011, 04:46 AM
^i was talking bout your pathetic chauvinism

beliges
11-15-2011, 04:51 AM
^i was talking bout your pathetic chauvinism

It might appear to you that way but Euroleague is probably the 2nd largest professional basketball league in the world and its mass appeal and talent level is not even in the same galaxy as the NBA. All the money, the publicity and popularity is in the NBA. A possible 2 year hiatus is not going to change that one bit.

Hellcrooner
11-15-2011, 04:53 AM
^wait and see.

Heediot
11-15-2011, 05:34 AM
Nothing wrong with the system. Blame the owners for overspending

Wait let's let our best player's get paid by the bigger market teams like chi, ny, and mia. If we sign them we will be called bad gm's for overspending onbbad contracts. If we don't sign them, fans will complain and call us bad gm's, and fairweather ones will stop supporting and our attendance will drop. Wow win-win situation.

To add more to this how come there are so many bad contracts? There are probably more bad contract than good ones lol. It's inevitable in this old system. People are forced to spend to be competitive.

Heediot
11-15-2011, 05:36 AM
Something is most definitely wrong with the system. Not to give these franchises (from the top to the bottom) passes, but how if your ATL do you explain to your fanbase you are serious about winning then let Joe Johnson leave via FA when you had the chance to keep him. The system puts ownership in a bad place either do the smart thing and let a player leave or do the dumb thing and keep your fanbase happy.

This.

abe_froman
11-15-2011, 05:41 AM
Wait let's let our best player's get paid by the bigger market teams like chi, ny, and mia. If we sign them we will be called bad gm's for overspending onbbad contracts. If we don't sign them, fans will complain and call us bad gm's, and fairweather ones will stop supporting and our attendance will drop. Wow win-win situation.

To add more to this how come there are so many bad contracts? There are probably more bad contract than good ones lol. It's inevitable in this old system. People are forced to spend to be competitive.

no one says dont pay your stars.and since there is a salary structure in place already by rule they cant potentially one up you(also note mia,chi never paid out of price range for a player..ny did but that was years ago).no one was holding a gun to devos or smith's head to give reshard lewis 120+ mil,no gm was trying to go up that high

Heediot
11-15-2011, 05:47 AM
no one says dont pay your stars.and since there is a salary structure in place already by rule they cant potentially one up you(also note mia,chi never paid out of price range for a player..ny did but that was years ago).no one was holding a gun to devos or smith's head to give reshard lewis 120+ mil,no gm was trying to go up that high

It's the agent's job to drive up prices. Your damned if you do, damned if you don't. The system change is needed to minimize damage done by the free agent structure in which agents can manipulate the system. The players want the system to remain the same because it allows for the agents to drive up prices.

Answer this how come most of NBA contracts are bad contracts??

Heediot
11-15-2011, 05:51 AM
no one says dont pay your stars.and since there is a salary structure in place already by rule they cant potentially one up you(also note mia,chi never paid out of price range for a player..ny did but that was years ago).no one was holding a gun to devos or smith's head to give reshard lewis 120+ mil,no gm was trying to go up that high

If you don't attempt to sign Rashard Lewis does Dwight Howard stay, do your fans want to support your team? Hmmmm....

The old system favours the agents and star players too much, The league is trying to give owners back leverage and minimize risks. All smart businesses want to minimize bad risks. These bad contracts are proof of the bad risks inherent in the old system.

abe_froman
11-15-2011, 05:53 AM
It's the agent's job to drive up prices. Your damned if you do, damned if you don't. The system change is needed to minimize damage done by the free agent structure in which agents can manipulate the system. The players want the system to remain the same because it allows for the agents to drive up prices.

it is.but no one says you must by what the agent is selling.they can walk away.gm's do it all the time(especially in trades).isnt it the owners job to know what he can and cant afford? its his money after all .the gm to plan it? work the cap? no?

why should it? when i **** up my finances do i get to have the rules re written to minimize the effect it has on me?

Heediot
11-15-2011, 05:56 AM
it is.but no one says you must by what the agent is selling.they can walk away.gm's do it all the time(especially in trades).isnt it the owners job to know what he can and cant afford? its his money after all

why should it? when i **** up my finances do i get to have the rules re written to minimize the effect it has on me?

Like I said earlier, your damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you don't spend to remain competitive alot of fans will stop supporting. If you spend and overpay in the long run you are also called bad gm and owner.

abe_froman
11-15-2011, 06:01 AM
If you don't attempt to sign Rashard Lewis does Dwight Howard stay, do your fans want to support your team? Hmmmm....

The old system favours the agents and star players too much, The league is trying to give owners back leverage and minimize risks. All smart businesses want to minimize bad risks. These bad contracts are proof of the bad risks inherent in the old system.

he was several years away from having the ability to decide to stay or not and there are over 400 other players they could ave targeted through trade or free agency...besides they could have offered just 100 mil,just 70 mil(which was still more than anyone was willing to go)

so what? stars ability is the biggest determining factor on success in the league? why should the structure reflect that?

yes they do,but why should they get to have it.in their main businesses they dont get to have it,in life no one gets to have it? bad risks exist ,why try to drum it out of life for a select few

abe_froman
11-15-2011, 06:03 AM
Like I said earlier, your damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you don't spend to remain competitive alot of fans will stop supporting. If you spend and overpay in the long run you are also called bad gm and owner.

they can spend,but why is too much to ask for them to spend wisely or suffer the consequences.everyone in the world lives with that rule

Heediot
11-15-2011, 06:07 AM
he was several years away from having the ability to decide to stay or not and there are over 400 other players they could ave targeted through trade or free agency...besides they could have offered just 100 mil,just 70 mil(which was still more than anyone was willing to go)

so what? stars ability is the biggest determining factor on success in the league? why should the structure reflect that?

yes they do,but why should they get to have it.in their main businesses they dont get to have it,in life no one gets to have it? bad risks exist ,why try to drum it out of life for a select few

The structure needs change because the proof is in the pudding. Why are most contracts bad contracts and the league is losing money. Too much leverage for agents and players to manipulate the system.

Why blames the owners for trying to correct their mistakes. I'm not saying they didn't make mistakes. If you were an owner wouldn't you want to change your mistakes? Yes there are risks, but smart ownership tries to minimize risk. Change is part of this.

Heediot
11-15-2011, 06:11 AM
they can spend,but why is too much to ask for them to spend wisely or suffer the consequences.everyone in the world lives with that rule

The proof is in the pudding. The system allows for too much manipulation and leverage for players and agents thus causing bad contracts and forcing gm''s and owners to take stupid risks to satisfy stars and fans. They want leverage and change and minimize risk which they are doing. They areowning up to their mistakes in the last cba, or mistakes in the bad signings due to the flaws in the system. I don't know how many times it has to be repeated.

abe_froman
11-15-2011, 06:17 AM
The structure needs change because the proof is in the pudding. Why are most contracts bad contracts and the league is losing money. Too much leverage for agents and players to manipulate the system.

Why blames the owners for trying to correct their mistakes. I'm not saying they didn't make mistakes. If you were an owner wouldn't you want to change your mistakes? Yes there are risks, but smart ownership tries to minimize risk. Change is part of this.

most contracts being bad is a matter or personal opinion ,relative to the revenue players bring in i would argue that most arent.and say that the league is there are many reason for that other than just players contracts.

would i want to? sure.should i be allowed to? no.because personal responsibility has to come into play at some point.if i **** up ,i should pay for it.if there are no consequences how am i ever going to smarten up and run the team better if i can just write off any mistake i make.(and as a fan i wouldnt want a system like that as that owner,that gm has even less pressure to put together a better product for me to watch).a bad gm can write off any mistake ,instead of it costing him his job.owners who are guaranteed profits,even if bad wont feel the pressure to sell

Heediot
11-15-2011, 06:22 AM
most contracts being bad is a matter or personal opinion ,relative to the revenue players bring in i would argue that most arent.and say that the league is there are many reason for that other than just players contracts.

would i want to? sure.should i be allowed to? no.because personal responsibility has to come into play at some point.if i **** up ,i should pay for it.if there are no consequences how am i ever going to smarten up and run the team better if i can just write off any mistake i make.(and as a fan i wouldnt want a system like that as that owner,that gm has even less pressure to put together a better product for me to watch)

Well you have some valid points, but don't blame the owners for trying to correct the holes they see as costing them money. It's a business first for them. I'm just trying to point out the holes in the system. For me personally, I'm neither pro or con but i do believe owning an nba should be profitable and it's not in the current system due to the many points I have repeated too often.

It's not as easy as well don't over-spend, there are many complexities and intricacies many people seem to ignore.

abe_froman
11-15-2011, 06:28 AM
The proof is in the pudding. The system allows for too much manipulation and leverage for players and agents thus causing bad contracts and forcing gm''s and owners to take stupid risks to satisfy stars and fans. They want leverage and change and minimize risk which they are doing. They areowning up to their mistakes in the last cba, or mistakes in the bad signings due to the flaws in the system. I don't know how many times it has to be repeated.

they have every right to leverage,just as managements do,just as every human does.but no one is forcing anyone to give in and play though.i get they want to minimize their risk but why should they get it? because some owners and gms are stupid mean the systems broke? when does personal onus come into play?

Heediot
11-15-2011, 06:33 AM
they have every right to leverage,just as managements do,just as every human does.but no one is forcing anyone to give in and play though.i get they want to minimize their risk but why should they get it? because some owners and gms are stupid mean the systems broke? when does personal onus come into play?

There is an invisible hand in play in this current economic system of the nba. The invisible hand is the star players wanting to win championships and forcing owners to take risks in conjunction with fans wanting a winning product. This is part of the force no???

I do agree that their should be onus on the owners and gm's. But look at how much money the league generates. All owner's should make a profit regardless of criticism.

abe_froman
11-15-2011, 06:34 AM
Well you have some valid points, but don't blame the owners for trying to correct the holes they see as costing them money. It's a business first for them. I'm just trying to point out the holes in the system. For me personally, I'm neither pro or con but i do believe owning an nba should be profitable and it's not in the current system due to the many points I have repeated too often.

It's not as easy as well don't over-spend, there are many complexities and intricacies many people seem to ignore.

i dont blame them for it,they have the power to change it,most others would.but they shouldnt go blameless here(like many are trying to push).and i believe differently.its up to me weather my team by profitable or not.when i own a business(as i once did),no one told be i could be nor should be profitable.nothing was guaranteed

its easier then you think,many teams have done it successfully

Heediot
11-15-2011, 06:38 AM
i dont blame them for it,they have the power to change it,most others would.but they shouldnt go blameless here(like many are trying to push).and i believe differently.its up to me weather my team by profitable or not.when i own a business(as i once did),no one told be i could be nor should be profitable.nothing was guaranteed

its easier then you think,many teams have done it successfully

How come Minny, Charlotte, and Sac are not profitable. these teams have the lowest payroll?

abe_froman
11-15-2011, 06:43 AM
There is an invisible hand in play in this current economic system of the nba. The invisible hand is the star players wanting to win championships and forcing owners to take risks in conjunction with fans wanting a winning product. This is part of the force no???

I do agree that their should be onus on the owners and gm's. But look at how much money the league generates. All owner's should make a profit regardless of criticism.
its a force they should exert isnt it? they are looking out for their wants.why is that any worse then owners doing it? when do fans blame owner/gm for not taking that risk?

and when the star gets frustrated from this owner if he doesnt take that risk ,should he not have the right to to go somewhere that'll offer him that?

abe_froman
11-15-2011, 06:49 AM
How come Minny, Charlotte, and Sac are not profitable. these teams have the lowest payroll?

how come chicago is(one of the lowest payroll teams as well)

because of how they were run

take minny for example.was under the direction of bad management for awhile and just now coming back out it(if it wasnt for loss of money maybe mchale would still be running thing)

sac was making money hand over fist(the model small market remember) till they blew it up and alienated the population with threats of leaving(btw i think that was more by design,they watched major league and decided to follow the plot the owner had in the movie)

Heediot
11-15-2011, 06:50 AM
its a force they should exert isnt it? they are looking out for their wants.why is that any worse then owners doing it? when do fans blame owner/gm for not taking that risk?

and when the star gets frustrated from this owner if he doesnt take that risk ,should he not have the right to to go somewhere that'll offer him that?

Exactly. They are both looking out for their own interests and risks, I'll agree to that. However, since the players are making money and most of the teams are not. I would rather the owners to at-least make a profit. It's all about balance. Fundamentally first and foremost all teams should make a profit just my opinion.

Fans get frustrated in more than one way and it doesn't have to be verbal. it can be demonstrated through lack of financial support and or viewership.

Heediot
11-15-2011, 06:53 AM
how come chicago is(one of the lowest payroll teams as well)

because of how they were run

take minny for example.was under the direction of bad management for awhile and just now coming back out it(if it wasnt for loss of money maybe mchale would still be running thing)

sac was making money hand over fist(the model small market remember) till they blew it up and alienated the population with threats of leaving(btw i think that was more by design,they watched major league and decided to follow the plot the owner had in the movie)

This is part of the problem, not all small market teams can make money at once because unless your winning you won't generate the money in these markets. Not all teams can win at once, there has to be losers for their to be winners that's the paradox of life.

NY and La can spend 100 mill and still generate money. Big market teams including Chi can still generate money when they don't spend because they have a bigger network/distribution of fans.

naps
11-15-2011, 07:03 AM
Agents :facepalm: The last one was a offer that should have been accepted. I really hope the players get a much much worse deal now. I never understood anyway how they get so much when I have been spending 8 freaking years for college and post-graduate level and not gonna even get paid 1% of them.

abe_froman
11-15-2011, 07:03 AM
This is part of the problem, not all small market teams can make money at once because unless your winning you won't generate the money in these markets. Not all teams can win at once, there has to be losers for their to be winners that's the paradox of life.

NY and La can spend 100 mill and still generate money. Big market teams including Chi can still generate money when they don't spend because they have a bigger network/distribution of fans.

and there's something with that? losing gets the loss of revenue,thats a motivating factor to get better.once you assure that it'll be profitable no matter what,what motivates them to improve?

both chi and ny fans know far to well that the sense of urgency to right the ship goes away once your guaranteed to rake in big time profits

Heediot
11-15-2011, 07:11 AM
and there's something with that? losing gets the loss of revenue,thats a motivating factor to get better.once you assure that it'll be profitable no matter what,what motivates them to improve?

both chi and ny fans know far to well that the sense of urgency to right the ship goes away once your guaranteed to rake in big time profits

It's less of a stress for Chi and Ny since they are profitable winning/losing and or spending/not spending. There are 30 teams and (NY, LA, Chi, Tor, Dal, Hou, Mia, Bos, Phi) about 10 big markets. There are 16 playoff spots. Do the math. For the 20 other teams to make a profit, all the Big market teams cannot make the playoffs. It's no guarantee even here that all the 20 other teams do make a profit. Since it's mathematically improbable for these 20 teams teams to generate money all at once in this current system, is change needed? Even if they do generate money, how long can one of these 20 teams sustain it without hurting the other 19 teams?

KnickFanSince91
11-15-2011, 10:05 AM
How come Minny, Charlotte, and Sac are not profitable. these teams have the lowest payroll?

Because those markets can't support non-competitive teams. That's what it really boils down to...owners purchased teams in markets that won't be profitable unless they manage to win a chip. These teams need to either move (Seattle has shown it will support their franchise no matter what while Charlotte has had 2 teams they ignore) or contract. The small market owners are trying to get cover from bad investments.

Heediot
11-15-2011, 10:11 AM
Because those markets can't support non-competitive teams. That's what it really boils down to...owners purchased teams in markets that won't be profitable unless they manage to win a chip. These teams need to either move (Seattle has shown it will support their franchise no matter what while Charlotte has had 2 teams they ignore) or contract. The small market owners are trying to get cover from bad investments.

If 3/4 of the league is not making money, how many teams should relocate or contract?

I'm cool with those suggestions if its viable.

KnickFanSince91
11-15-2011, 10:54 AM
If 3/4 of the league is not making money, how many teams should relocate or contract?

I'm cool with those suggestions if its viable.

I honestly believe the team should reduce in size by 6 teams to 24. This will spread the talent around so teams won't have to overspend as much when they are 1 or 2 pieces away. More talent per team = more bottom line profits. Middle markets will support a competitive team but the smallest markets will not support perennial losers. The NBA needs to take a hard look at where it's placing it's franchises and begin to consider shifting all their teams towards the bigger markets. Chicago and Boston could support another team each, Seattle has shown it can support a team you could explore the possibility of Las Vegas.

Another surefire way to make sure the teams remain profitable is for the owners to have true revenue sharing. Agree to a hybrid of the MLB and NFL models and split the tv money and gates. If they take the approach that they are marketing the NBA as a brand instead of individual teams, that will stop all the bickering between ownership.

Heater4life
11-15-2011, 11:12 AM
The NBPA is run by idiots. They could have easily done this months ago. wasted season due to poor negotiating.

ewing
11-15-2011, 11:21 AM
how come chicago is(one of the lowest payroll teams as well)

because of how they were run

take minny for example.was under the direction of bad management for awhile and just now coming back out it(if it wasnt for loss of money maybe mchale would still be running thing)

sac was making money hand over fist(the model small market remember) till they blew it up and alienated the population with threats of leaving(btw i think that was more by design,they watched major league and decided to follow the plot the owner had in the movie)



Chicago is not a small market and they have an MVP winner on a rookie deal. You cant hold them up as an example of what any team could do. Sometimes D Rose falls into your hands, sometimes you take Eddie Curry

beliges
11-15-2011, 02:36 PM
The NBPA is run by idiots. They could have easily done this months ago. wasted season due to poor negotiating.

Agreed, Or they could have accepted a deal that was fair and for both sides. Except they think they deserve more than the owners. Now these players will NEVER get a deal as good as there was on the table and I couldnt be happier.

smith&wesson
11-15-2011, 02:50 PM
the nbpa is run by idiots. They could have easily done this months ago. Wasted season due to poor negotiating.

this