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View Full Version : Loyalty To Players



JasonJohnHorn
11-14-2011, 07:55 AM
Last year there was a lot of talk about loyalty to teams, with LBJ, Bosh and Amare all leaving the teams they had played their entire careers with. Some fans thought the players should have been loyal to their teams, but does it work the other way around? I've found Boston has been a great franchise in terms of being loyal to its players. It was in a position to trade either Bird or McHale for younger players or draft picks, but allowed those players to retire in Boston green. The pistons did the same thing with Thomas and Dumars (though Dumars showed some real loyalty by playing through several less-than-stellar seasons with a team in rebuilding mode). But it has happened where a team has traded its franchise player, after years of loyalty, for next to nothing. Case in point: The Knicks trading Ewing for next to nothing. It seems to me that the right thing to do was to allow Ewing to retire with the Knicks.

Should teams be expected to offer loyalty to the players who have given them their best years? Like the the Pacers did with Miller, and Boston did with McHale and Bird, and Detroit did with Thomas and Dumars? Or do you think it is right for a team to trade a guy like Ewing while trying to rebuild?

miller
11-14-2011, 08:38 AM
Players like the ones you mentioned deserved to finish their careers at the team they'd spent years with. In my opinion your example of Ewing is the biggest mistake the Knicks could've made at the time. He should have retired with pride as a Knick but was traded for next to nothing and the Knicks then spent multiple years in the basement with long term deals on overpaid players. The Knicks acted shamefully in my opinion and got what they deserved for the shabby treatment Ewing got.

But at the same time a team can do a guy right by trading him, like Garnett to the Celtics. But I would consider that to be an act of loyalty from the team by giving him an opportunity to get him the championship he craved with his window closing.

ajnapoleon
11-14-2011, 09:20 AM
As we all know loyalty is not a two way street ....the owners will trade a guy in a heartbeat so they can win or get that younger "Star" player and these current stars see that. You cant be mad at them for looking for other options maybe they are talking about it in the open to much i think thats here the hatred comes from. But they are allowed to do it. I still dont see where a player contract ends but the team feels that they should get draft picks or players back...where does that come in?...confused...is that the loyalty that people are taking about?

Hawkeye15
11-14-2011, 10:35 AM
loyalty to players is a great thing, but it also causes a franchise to be much worse off than if they would have moved that player in their twighlight years for example.

ManningToTyree
11-14-2011, 10:49 AM
The Ewing trade made me sick. Lets not forget he wanted out. The Knicks should have not appeased him. Years later he has admitted that he regretted the situation.

It is always nice to see the franchise player finish up where he began, but I don't think the Team owes players loyalty in most cases. It is a business and teams always have to look at the big picture. Most players don't feel the need to be loyal with these big name FA sweepstakes every year, why should the teams?

Dade County
11-14-2011, 11:07 AM
Loyalty ... what's that :shrug:

Loyalty, is fulfilling your contract ( Period )

Hellcrooner
11-14-2011, 01:18 PM
players should not be traded withouth their consent.

but hey this is the nba and fans are pro Plantation owners :rolleyes:

knicksfan42
11-14-2011, 01:33 PM
players should not be traded withouth their consent.

but hey this is the nba and fans are pro Plantation owners :rolleyes:

The players sign a contract which allows them to be traded, though they can also sign a contract with a no-trade clause wherein they can veto a trade and in essence not be traded without their consent; however, many players don't ask for one, because they know that in return they'll probably be offered a smaller deal if they are offered one at all. To them getting paid is more important than having a no-trade clause in their contract.

Though I didn't even need to point that out since players are never traded without their consent, they consent when they sign their multimillion dollar contracts. They aren't forced to sign their contracts, they do so willfully and by signing their contracts they provide their consent to be traded.

Hellcrooner
11-14-2011, 01:35 PM
^blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
In the rest of the world that clause that allows the team to trade you is ILLEGAL.

Chronz
11-14-2011, 01:41 PM
Amare wanted to stay, Bron and Bosh just wanted to win. Each situation is unique but my thing is, if your in a good situation stay.

As for the teams, I think it should depend on what kind of success they have brought you.

In reality its a cutthroat business so u have to be cutthroat deep down.

knicksfan42
11-14-2011, 01:56 PM
In the rest of the world that clause that allows the team to trade you is ILLEGAL.

Completely disingenuous and irrelevant. Players aren't forced to sign their contracts, they do so willfully and by signing their contracts they provide their consent to be traded. As I've also mentioned in my previous post, they can ask for a no trade clause in their contract whether they choose to or not is up to them.

beliges
11-14-2011, 01:58 PM
^blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
In the rest of the world that clause that allows the team to trade you is ILLEGAL.

While the rest of the world may have different laws and regulations than the US, in America when someone knowingly and voluntarily signs a legally binding and valid contract, they are bound to the terms. To say players should need to consent before being traded is just plain dumb. Again, playing in the NBA is not a right but rather a privilege. Nobody is forcing these guys from playing basketball and making millions of millions of dollars. If you do not like the rules of the league, you do not have to stay. Its funny how these players and a minority of fans are complaining about the owners being unfair. In the real world if you are not happy with your job you can quit and get a new job. Players need to either go back to work or find employment elsewhere. You are not the boss where you get to make all teh financial decisions. Sometimes there will be decisions made that goes against your best interest. You can ***** and complain all you want but in the end there is still someone above you cutting the checks.

Captain Moroni
11-14-2011, 02:15 PM
loyalty to players is a great thing, but it also causes a franchise to be much worse off than if they would have moved that player in their twighlight years for example.

Perfect Example-The Yankees
I know Jeter is a God in the Bronx, and the idea of him playing for any other team is sacreligious to any die hard Bomber fan, but imagine if they let jeter go last winter inteaed of giving him Pujhols money until he is 44. They could have signed Reyes this winter, and Posada should have never made the team last year.

Hellcrooner
11-14-2011, 02:21 PM
Completely disingenuous and irrelevant. Players aren't forced to sign their contracts, they do so willfully and by signing their contracts they provide their consent to be traded. As I've also mentioned in my previous post, they can ask for a no trade clause in their contract whether they choose to or not is up to them.

i guess you didnt get the memo, you can only ask for a no trade clause after a TON of years in the league and in the SAME team.

Tony_Starks
11-14-2011, 02:21 PM
Player gives a team a few years and leaves for a better situation= disloyal traitor.

Owner trades a player thats given them great years to a horrible team for financial relief and younger players= it's all business.

sixer04fan
11-14-2011, 02:31 PM
players should not be traded withouth their consent.

but hey this is the nba and fans are pro Plantation owners :rolleyes:

Crooner, seriously, give it a rest dude...

knicksfan42
11-14-2011, 02:41 PM
i guess you didnt get the memo, you can only ask for a no trade clause after a TON of years in the league and in the SAME team.

Guess you didn't get the memo: "I didn't even need to point that (no-trade clause) out since players are never traded without their consent, they consent when they sign their multimillion dollar contracts."

sixer04fan
11-14-2011, 02:52 PM
Guess you didn't get the memo: "I didn't even need to point that (no-trade clause) out since players are never traded without their consent, they consent when they sign their multimillion dollar contracts."

Don't bother arguing with him. He literally believes the NBA is an illegal global empire and that all of the players are slaves being tortured against their will.

Hawkeye15
11-14-2011, 02:57 PM
players should not be traded withouth their consent.

but hey this is the nba and fans are pro Plantation owners :rolleyes:

why do you keep bringing up this issue like its similar to slavery? These athletes make millions of dollars in something they CHOOSE to do.

Drop that angle. Its getting very difficult reading your posts on the CBA at this point.

Fact is the players needed to give back to make the league stronger as a whole. Fact is, the players absolutely crapped on the owner's in the last two CBA's. And now they are acting like spoiled children that don't want their sucker taken away. They will still be by far the highest paid athletes in the major sports, and they will be able to go where they like, they just won't be able to get a 5 year, $30 million deal with a club over the cap. Nor should they.

Sactown
11-14-2011, 03:02 PM
Player gives a team a few years and leaves for a better situation= disloyal traitor.

Owner trades a player thats given them great years to a horrible team for financial relief and younger players= it's all business.

Not true, what the Kings did to Ron Artest =disloyal traitor, but your argument is the cliche argument for big market teams

Tony_Starks
11-14-2011, 03:18 PM
Not true, what the Kings did to Ron Artest =disloyal traitor, but your argument is the cliche argument for big market teams


What does what I said have to do with a big or small market? Horrible teams come in both forms man don't be so sensitive...

My statement is the usual way transactions are portrayed by the media and the typical fan....

ClippersE.G
11-14-2011, 03:43 PM
Loyalty ... what's that :shrug:

Loyalty, is fulfilling your contract ( Period )

I see even without a season Heat fans are still as defensive and hatable as ever

whitemamba33
11-14-2011, 03:52 PM
Amare wanted to stay, Bron and Bosh just wanted to win. Each situation is unique but my thing is, if your in a good situation stay.

As for the teams, I think it should depend on what kind of success they have brought you.

In reality its a cutthroat business so u have to be cutthroat deep down.

...

Kind of like Tracy McGrady on the Raptors?