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Cal827
11-13-2011, 01:39 PM
Lebron's Career kinda reminds me of Vince Carter's (at least so far). Both have/had the talent to absolutely dominate the league (Lebron still does), but their respective work ethics have been questioned (Shaq (I guess he's an unreliable source though) talked about how Lebron wouldn't actually practice properly, but the coach just basically appeased him.. as a thread recently mentioned). Both were on teams that didn't provide enough support, they decided to leave, pissing of a ton of people (many thinking that Lebron quit on the team, and Carter admitted that he did, and babied his way out of Toronto), and then they were placed on teams with multiple all-stars (Miami with Wade and Bosh, and New Jersey with Jason Kidd and Jefferson).

The Heat have time to improve, but Carter's Nets teams kept adding bench players who were decent around the team (Kristic averaged like 14ppg on those teams, Nachbar (good 6th man), Miki Moore (where did he ever go lol?), House), but they still didn't get the job done. Hell, I don't think they got past the second round.

Then he's dealt to Orlando, was supposed to be the key cog that gets them to the finals again, but instead he choked, missing potential tying free throws in one of the first games in that series in Orlando.

Lebron does have a lot of time though (since him, Bosh and Wade are all in their primes and Miami will likely add a decent amount of players via amnesties once this lockout comes to an end. I expect that team to win it all at least once.

What do you guys think? Is there another player who you think has had a similar path that Lebron has so far? Another I can think of is AI maybe.

This is by no means a bait thread, please don't make it one.

Hawkeye15
11-13-2011, 01:51 PM
The only basketball player off the top of my head that would possibly remind of of Bron and his career, TO DATE, is Dr. J.

airronijordan
11-13-2011, 01:53 PM
Up to their 1st 8 years, Lebron was way more productive than VC

If anything, his career kind of reminds me of Wilt Chamberlain

Wilt was the most dominant player in the regular season but rarely had success in the playoffs/finals (he did end up winning 2 titles)

Iggz53
11-13-2011, 01:55 PM
The only basketball player off the top of my head that would possibly remind of of Bron and his career, TO DATE, is Dr. J.

Yeah I was thinking Dr. J also

Cal827
11-13-2011, 01:58 PM
Up to their 1st 8 years, Lebron was way more productive than VC

If anything, his career kind of reminds me of Wilt Chamberlain

Wilt was the most dominant player in the regular season but rarely had success in the playoffs/finals (he did end up winning 2 titles)

Oh I know that Lebron is more productive than Carter, but I'm just looking at it on how people expected them to be.

Both of them were supposed to be the Next one according to media sources.
As Lebron is right now for SFs, Carter was considered the best SG at one point in time.

lol forgot about Dr. J

smith&wesson
11-13-2011, 02:00 PM
I see what your saying cal.

-lebron relies on athletiticm more then carter did. carter actually had a nice range. but both are/were freakishly athletic.

-lebron is more of an iron man then carter is. if nothing else the guy plays the games where as carter was guaranteed to get injured at some point in the season.

-the way the both of them left clevland and toronto strikes me as what they have in common the most. carter is still hated in toronto. lebron will forever be hated in clevland.

-carter was a fan fav around the league and will always be remembered for putting on possibly the best performance in the dunk contest. lebron refused to do the dunk contest. and will always be remembered as a villan for his little espn fiasco. they differ in that regard.

if lebron doesnt end up winning a ring. this comparison could be more acurate then we think.

the ironic part about this is that carter really wanted wade drafted to toronto over bosh and toronto picked bosh any ways. if wade was selected instead we may very well have seen carter stay in toronto .

THE GIPPER
11-13-2011, 02:04 PM
I know ill get some hate for this but what about MJ? He didnt get his first ring until 28 years old i think. Both were criticized for not having a ring but both were totally dominant players.

Cal827
11-13-2011, 02:10 PM
I know ill get some hate for this but what about MJ? He didnt get his first ring until 28 years old i think. Both were criticized for not having a ring but both were totally dominant players.

That does work too, but the main difference I see there is that Chicago made good decisions during the drafts/trades in order to provide MJ enough support.

Cal827
11-13-2011, 02:12 PM
I see what your saying cal.

-lebron relies on athletiticm more then carter did. carter actually had a nice range. but both are/were freakishly athletic.

-lebron is more of an iron man then carter is. if nothing else the guy plays the games where as carter was guaranteed to get injured at some point in the season.

-the way the both of them left clevland and toronto strikes me as what they have in common the most. carter is still hated in toronto. lebron will forever be hated in clevland.

-carter was a fan fav around the league and will always be remembered for putting on possibly the best performance in the dunk contest. lebron refused to do the dunk contest. and will always be remembered as a villan for his little espn fiasco. they differ in that regard.

if lebron doesnt end up winning a ring. this comparison could be more acurate then we think.

the ironic part about this is that carter really wanted wade drafted to toronto over bosh and toronto picked bosh any ways. if wade was selected instead we may very well have seen carter stay in toronto .

That part kills me. We likely could have done 3 things there and we decided to do the worst.

Draft Wade and make Carter happy.
Try and Trade Carter to Miami for the 5th pick and draft Bosh/Wade.
Draft Bosh and piss off Carter.

Sactown
11-13-2011, 02:22 PM
When it's all said and done, Lebron will be one of the greatest player to play the game, and Carter will be one of the greatest dunkers.. other than that I don't really see a similarity even in the way the left their teams.. Lebron left during free agency and didn't ***** till he was traded.. If Lebron was a mediocre player, how he left wouldn't even be a problem..

truther
11-13-2011, 04:17 PM
not even close, lebron has been WAY more productive than vince, we're talking about back to back MVP of the leaugue here. to date i would say Karl malone, puting up elite numners but falling short of a ring. only diff. is lebron should atleast win one when its all set and done.

shafty
11-13-2011, 04:19 PM
mm, no... you can't question his work ethic. dude puts a lot of time in at the gym. see: abundance of offseason work out videos. now maybe he doesn't put time into the RIGHT exercises (post work), but that's a different story.

Lakers + Giants
11-13-2011, 05:26 PM
When it's all said and done, Lebron will be one of the greatest player to play the game, and Carter will be one of the greatest dunkers.. other than that I don't really see a similarity even in the way the left their teams.. Lebron left during free agency and didn't ***** till he was traded.. If Lebron was a mediocre player, how he left wouldn't even be a problem..

No ****. "The Decision" would have never happened if he was just a mediocre player. People aren't gonna watch a scrub announce what team he's gonna sign with.

Avenged
11-13-2011, 05:34 PM
You don't become that good without work ethic.. He also has 2 MVP's.. Not sure their careers are comparable.

Sadds The Gr8
11-13-2011, 05:41 PM
no. he's wayyyyyyy better than Wince. Wince is a pathetic slacker

Hangtime
11-13-2011, 06:35 PM
Lebron still led his Cleveland team to the finals. A very avg team by the way. He reminds me more of The Doc than Vince Carter.Doc led his teams to finals and won an MVP before finally winning it all in the NBA. I don't really see any similarities with Vince.

Wade>You
11-13-2011, 07:07 PM
You don't become that good without work ethic.. He also has 2 MVP's.. Not sure their careers are comparable.Exactly. It's as if the media isn't writing articles about a player's work ethic, then that player must not have a work ethic at all.

Chronz
11-14-2011, 12:35 AM
Thats a REALLY big reach man

Raps18-19 Champ
11-14-2011, 12:35 AM
Reminds me a lot like Malone.

Great career but where's the titles? Failed twice in the finals so far. :shrug:

Cal827
11-14-2011, 12:41 AM
Thats a REALLY big reach man

lol yeah, it might have sounded a lot better in my head when I made this, guess this can be closed before something bad happens. Sorry.

naps
11-14-2011, 01:47 AM
LOL. Not even close. LeBron is already a top 20 player of all time (arguably). Where does Vince rank on that list? Their talent and accomplishments gap is way to huge to be able to compare them. Karl Malone/Dr. J are more acceptable comparisons as of now but if he wins everything is gonna be changed.

Tony_Starks
11-14-2011, 02:00 AM
I kinda see where you were going but I can't really criticize Lebrons work ethic yet. Vince was one of my favorites early on but as he started to slow down it was obvious he was just relying strictly on athleticism, thus the reason he's just a fadeaway machine now.

But if Lebron doesn't add something like a reliable mid range, or some decent post moves to his arsenal soon I think it would be fair to question his work ethic.

mjm07
11-14-2011, 12:52 PM
Lebron had a very mid reliable range jumper last season. Stats don't lie. I'm sure he will develop a dominant post game as well. He's too physically imposing for him to not be successful.

Lebron won 2 MVPS, and like a few other posters mentioned, one doesn't win an MVP without "most valuable player" type work ethic.

This is so pathetic! I can understand haters calling him out due to him underperforming in the 4th quarter in the finals etc but now work ethic?

Riley is infamous for his grueling practices year round. All of his former players have stated that ppls in the game know that. Spoelstra is a younger version of Riley in that same aspect. If you have bad work ethic, pple would've brought LBJ to the forefront on that real quick. Zo, Wade, Bosh, Riley, Timmy, even Spoelstra, including fans would've called him out on this.

Relax haters.

BTW Vince Carter wishes he had LBJ's st 8 yrs. I agree with the Dr. J comparison.

JordansBulls
11-14-2011, 01:35 PM
I know ill get some hate for this but what about MJ? He didnt get his first ring until 28 years old i think. Both were criticized for not having a ring but both were totally dominant players.

Definitely not. His career is more like Dr J's as Doctor J had the stats but lost a few series with HCA. Jordan never lost a series with HCA.

JordansBulls
11-14-2011, 01:35 PM
Lebron's Career kinda reminds me of Vince Carter's (at least so far). Both have/had the talent to absolutely dominate the league (Lebron still does), but their respective work ethics have been questioned (Shaq (I guess he's an unreliable source though) talked about how Lebron wouldn't actually practice properly, but the coach just basically appeased him.. as a thread recently mentioned). Both were on teams that didn't provide enough support, they decided to leave, pissing of a ton of people (many thinking that Lebron quit on the team, and Carter admitted that he did, and babied his way out of Toronto), and then they were placed on teams with multiple all-stars (Miami with Wade and Bosh, and New Jersey with Jason Kidd and Jefferson).

The Heat have time to improve, but Carter's Nets teams kept adding bench players who were decent around the team (Kristic averaged like 14ppg on those teams, Nachbar (good 6th man), Miki Moore (where did he ever go lol?), House), but they still didn't get the job done. Hell, I don't think they got past the second round.

Then he's dealt to Orlando, was supposed to be the key cog that gets them to the finals again, but instead he choked, missing potential tying free throws in one of the first games in that series in Orlando.

Lebron does have a lot of time though (since him, Bosh and Wade are all in their primes and Miami will likely add a decent amount of players via amnesties once this lockout comes to an end. I expect that team to win it all at least once.

What do you guys think? Is there another player who you think has had a similar path that Lebron has so far? Another I can think of is AI maybe.

This is by no means a bait thread, please don't make it one.

Lebron is better than Vince period.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
11-14-2011, 01:36 PM
Oh I know that Lebron is more productive than Carter, but I'm just looking at it on how people expected them to be.
Both of them were supposed to be the Next one according to media sources.
As Lebron is right now for SFs, Carter was considered the best SG at one point in time.

lol forgot about Dr. J

WTF are you talking about? Vince Carter was NEVER considered the best SG in the League... 96- current, was AI, Tmac, or Kobe. and LeBron has surpassed expectation.

John Walls Era
11-14-2011, 01:40 PM
Definitely not. His career is more like Dr J's as Doctor J had the stats but lost a few series with HCA. Jordan never lost a series with HCA.

1) Hes called the GOAT.

2) When you have HCA it usually means your team is better.

Cal827
11-14-2011, 01:43 PM
Lebron had a very mid reliable range jumper last season. Stats don't lie. I'm sure he will develop a dominant post game as well. He's too physically imposing for him to not be successful.

Lebron won 2 MVPS, and like a few other posters mentioned, one doesn't win an MVP without "most valuable player" type work ethic.

This is so pathetic! I can understand haters calling him out due to him underperforming in the 4th quarter in the finals etc but now work ethic?

Riley is infamous for his grueling practices year round. All of his former players have stated that ppls in the game know that. Spoelstra is a younger version of Riley in that same aspect. If you have bad work ethic, pple would've brought LBJ to the forefront on that real quick. Zo, Wade, Bosh, Riley, Timmy, even Spoelstra, including fans would've called him out on this.

Relax haters.

BTW Vince Carter wishes he had LBJ's st 8 yrs. I agree with the Dr. J comparison.

Lol I'm not a hater, in fact I'm usually defending Lebron in the 20 million Lebron-Bashing threads on this site.

I am aware the difference in talent (in the end) was large. Lebron will go down as one of the best all time; Carter just another player, but I mainly thought of their last years on their first teams. I'm aware Gilbert and Shaq are likely two of the biggest ******s on the planet, but both said he wasn't trying hard enough (Shaq Thread) and quit on the team (Gilbert Letter).... Fans saw Carter basically quit on the team, then he admitted it. I guess this arguement isn't too strong b/c Gilbert is a joke, and Shaq will basically do anything to make a buck.

But I think some of the other arguments are valid:

- Both were considered to be near-top talents in the League: (Lebron was/is the best, while Carter was in his time with Toronto, and then a bit with New Jersey.
-Both Left their team pretty badly. I know one did fairly and one babied his way out, but both of their former teams hate them (as mentioned by smith&wesson)

- Both Joined up with other all-stars.

I did say as of now. I highly doubt that their overall careers will be really similar (as I mentioned, I think he wins at least once).

Chronz
11-14-2011, 02:05 PM
Definitely not. His career is more like Dr J's as Doctor J had the stats but lost a few series with HCA. Jordan never lost a series with HCA.
That they lost with HCA only tells us he won more games than Jordan did in the years neither won titles.

What your trying to get at is much bigger than HCA, still haven't learned that after all these years?

Da Knicks
11-14-2011, 02:10 PM
dr j is a fair comparison

Chronz
11-14-2011, 02:14 PM
Lol I'm not a hater, in fact I'm usually defending Lebron in the 20 million Lebron-Bashing threads on this site.

I am aware the difference in talent (in the end) was large. Lebron will go down as one of the best all time; Carter just another player, but I mainly thought of their last years on their first teams. I'm aware Gilbert and Shaq are likely two of the biggest ******s on the planet, but both said he wasn't trying hard enough (Shaq Thread) and quit on the team (Gilbert Letter).... Fans saw Carter basically quit on the team, then he admitted it. I guess this arguement isn't too strong b/c Gilbert is a joke, and Shaq will basically do anything to make a buck.

But I think some of the other arguments are valid:

- Both were considered to be near-top talents in the League: (Lebron was/is the best, while Carter was in his time with Toronto, and then a bit with New Jersey.
-Both Left their team pretty badly. I know one did fairly and one babied his way out, but both of their former teams hate them (as mentioned by smith&wesson)

- Both Joined up with other all-stars.

I did say as of now. I highly doubt that their overall careers will be really similar (as I mentioned, I think he wins at least once).

I just wanted to add, we know nothing of their work ethic. A few snippets of information does not encompass a career. Secondly when was RJ ever a star?

That Nets team sucked outside the Big3, Vince did disappoint after his initial run that got the Nets into the playoffs but it wasn't because he didn't take NJ where they could go.

mlisica19
11-14-2011, 02:20 PM
I know ill get some hate for this but what about MJ? He didnt get his first ring until 28 years old i think. Both were criticized for not having a ring but both were totally dominant players.

Michael Jordan was 27ish yes, but in his 7th year he began his championship reign. Jordan was also an elite defender. Elite, winning 2 defensive MVPs. 10x scoring champion. Even after constantly losing to the Celtics and the Pistons... he stuck with his team. He fought to make his team better.

James is in his 8th season. After his 7th year he left the Cavs to join a superstar team.

Vince Carter would be the best comparison...

NetsPaint
11-14-2011, 02:22 PM
Would you compare Carter's to Carmelo's?

Chronz
11-14-2011, 02:24 PM
Would you compare Carter's to Carmelo's?

Much better comparison

NetsPaint
11-14-2011, 02:33 PM
I see what your saying cal.

-lebron relies on athletiticm more then carter did. carter actually had a nice range. but both are/were freakishly athletic.

-lebron is more of an iron man then carter is. if nothing else the guy plays the games where as carter was guaranteed to get injured at some point in the season.

-the way the both of them left clevland and toronto strikes me as what they have in common the most. carter is still hated in toronto. lebron will forever be hated in clevland.

-carter was a fan fav around the league and will always be remembered for putting on possibly the best performance in the dunk contest. lebron refused to do the dunk contest. and will always be remembered as a villan for his little espn fiasco. they differ in that regard.

if lebron doesnt end up winning a ring. this comparison could be more acurate then we think.

the ironic part about this is that carter really wanted wade drafted to toronto over bosh and toronto picked bosh any ways. if wade was selected instead we may very well have seen carter stay in toronto .
Mannnn, two major offensive threats with crazy athleticism and excitement.

mlisica19
11-14-2011, 02:35 PM
I just wanted to add, we know nothing of their work ethic. A few snippets of information does not encompass a career. Secondly when was RJ ever a star?

That Nets team sucked outside the Big3, Vince did disappoint after his initial run that got the Nets into the playoffs but it wasn't because he didn't take NJ where they could go.

I assume their work ethic from what I see and what I hear.

When I see LeBron give up on a defensive assignment, I see a sense of laziness. Where does that laziness derive from? His work ethic.

When I see LeBron wasting time doing hundreds of videos on trick shots... It makes me wonder when on the court does he actually spend time practicing real game situations?

If LeBron were actually a hard worker, you would hear about it. Heck, they made two documentaries on Tim Tebow because of his work ethic. Michael Jordan spending time with Scottie Pippen every chance they got, you hear about it. Spike Lee does an entire documentary on Kobes game, how much effort he puts into preparing for a game. If James was doing something over the top you think you would hear about it... instead he spends an hour interviewing ESPN for his decision. Hes sending hundreds of videos of him completing trick shots. He spending hours having a rock concert for the Miami teams new roster. (which only 3 guys were presented)...

I hear Shaq saying hes basically lazy and getting a free ride. I hear Miami heat fans and staff members saying there not following protocol. I hear team USA and Coach K not happy with the "arrogant" James. That is what I hear

So I am sure James is doing his training, but the bare minimum

mlisica19
11-14-2011, 02:38 PM
The first sight of James going over the hill for training was him training with Hakeem O over this summer. So it took him 2 final appearances and 2 losses to finally do something more!

He doesnt have the eye of the tiger, that will to WIN at all costs.

He spends more time trying to impress the media and fans during a game and practice than trying to win and improve. So it seems, I am sure he wants to win. But hardly shows it. Especially on a consistent basis. And what I said has nothing to do with why i dislike the guy, this is all analysis of what I see through the years with this man.

A guy of his caliber should be winning every award possible, every championship. But i blame the guys work ethic

truther
11-14-2011, 02:40 PM
you're always writing huge paragraphs about lebron just to discredit hate him whats your deal

mjm07
11-14-2011, 02:47 PM
^^^
Boy you hear a lot of things...and when i say things I mean nonsense or better yet make believe nonsense.

dude, give it up! Why do you hate so much?! "Bare minimum" doesn't get you to become the "best player on the planet" let alone 2 MVP!!!

Also, just so you know when the owner (Mickey Arison ) and the President of the HEAT (Riley) created the Rock concert event for Miami's new roster...they ONLY HAD 3 players signed on the roster!! The 4th was Chalmers but he hadn't signed the 1 yr tender Miami offered him yet. Get ur facts straight, pimpin!

btw, D12 always does stupid videos of himself making trick shots. I guess he does the "bare minimum" as well. But i'm sure SVG himself told you otherwise.

Let the man be, dude.

mjm07
11-14-2011, 02:51 PM
The first sight of James going over the hill for training was him training with Hakeem O over this summer. So it took him 2 final appearances and 2 losses to finally do something more!

He doesnt have the eye of the tiger, that will to WIN at all costs.

He spends more time trying to impress the media and fans during a game and practice than trying to win and improve. So it seems, I am sure he wants to win. But hardly shows it. Especially on a consistent basis. And what I said has nothing to do with why i dislike the guy, this is all analysis of what I see through the years with this man.

A guy of his caliber should be winning every award possible, every championship. But i blame the guys work ethic

If this is not why you dislike LBJ then I don't want to know what the real reason is. :facepalm:

mavwar53
11-14-2011, 02:56 PM
Not even close how can you compare the 2, vince was one of the most selfish players I've ever seen until he started playing with kid, their careers are in no way close.