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View Full Version : Comparing Teammates Kobe Vs Lebron..



ajnapoleon
11-11-2011, 07:18 PM
It seems straight up unfair!...wow glen rice gasol 27 yr old Shaq eddie jones robert horry...gary payton karl malone Etc....Oh and Phil Jackson coaching!...Lebron...Mo williams old ben wallace 36 yr old Shaq?....

C-Style
11-11-2011, 07:25 PM
Lol sour grapes


It seems straight up unfair!...wow old glen rice gasol 27 yr old Shaq eddie jones robert horry...old gary payton old karl malone Etc....Oh and Phil Jackson coaching!...Lebron...Carlos Boozer Larry Hughes Mo williams Antawn Jamison Dwyane Wade Chris Bosh old ben wallace 36 yr old Shaq Antawn Jamison ?....

FIXED IT 4 YA!

Tony_Starks
11-11-2011, 07:25 PM
He took Smush and Kwame to the playoffs in the west. That is the equivalent of winning a championship........

Sactown
11-11-2011, 07:32 PM
He took Smush and Kwame to the playoffs in the west. That is the equivalent of winning a championship........

:facepalm:


We've all heard the argument and I don't think there's a point in playing this "What If" game anymore.. unfortunately for the Cavs and the league, Lebron James was not surrounded with adequate talent throughout his stint in Cleveland .

For the reasons posted above Lebron James went on to shake the foundation of league with the decision which angered everyone.. :pity:

lakers4sho
11-11-2011, 07:36 PM
bro, what a cool story you got!

Chacarron
11-11-2011, 07:45 PM
Colby played with Shaq! :speechless: Whaaaaaaaaaaaat!!!! Get out of here brah.

bklynny67
11-11-2011, 07:45 PM
is this more MIA "fake fans" whining??? i think it is....


Lebron had Wade, Bosh, and also Bibby and Miller who are good role players and didn't win and probably won't cuz Lebron chokes in the clutch. Always has. he won't win anything until he realizes he needs to let someone else take the last shot in a close game cuz he SUCKS at it.

ajnapoleon
11-11-2011, 07:48 PM
No at Bklynn67..lol...im from brooklyn born in kings county hospital 78"..bishop loughlin 96"..big knick fan...just had a talk with a buddy ...comparing teammates over the years just being honest it was not close to being equal thats all.

Sactown
11-11-2011, 07:52 PM
is this more MIA "fake fans" whining??? i think it is....


Lebron had Wade, Bosh, and also Bibby and Miller who are good role players and didn't win and probably won't cuz Lebron chokes in the clutch. Always has. he won't win anything until he realizes he needs to let someone else take the last shot in a close game cuz he SUCKS at it.

:pity: It's hard to even respond to this...

Tony_Starks
11-11-2011, 07:54 PM
I would seriously like for someone to point out any time in his career where Lebron played with starters as horrible as Smush, Kwame, and Chris Mihm and support it by numbers. Kobe and Odom were basically playing 2 on 5 every night and we won't even discuss characters like Devean George and Brian Cook coming off the bench. It was a total joke, Lebron never had such outcast.

He got a lot of players past their prime but at least at some point in life they were once respectable players and even allstars, all defense, or 3 point champs.....

Hawkeye15
11-11-2011, 08:46 PM
Simply put

Kobe has played with championship caliber help for 11 years of his career.

LeBron has played with championship caliber help for 1 year.

Kobe probably had the weakest roster support for a 2 years out of either.

truther
11-11-2011, 08:50 PM
He took Smush and Kwame to the playoffs in the west. That is the equivalent of winning a championship........

lebron took ira newble to the finals thats equivalent of four petting

truther
11-11-2011, 08:53 PM
if lebron had a prime shaq in any point of his career he would have atleast 4 rings, or if he played in a big market like LA that somehow is allowed to trade kwame for gasol,

C-Style
11-11-2011, 09:12 PM
if lebron had a prime shaq in any point of his career he would have atleast 4 rings, or if he played in a big market like LA that somehow is allowed to trade kwame for gasol,

doubt it with those choke jobs he had in the Finals

Stuckey#3
11-11-2011, 09:32 PM
He got a lot of players past their prime but at least at some point in life they were once respectable players and even allstars, all defense, or 3 point champs.....

An NBA players prime is arguably ages 27-30
Ages of the Mavericks starting five during last years Finals:

Kidd-38
Terry-34
Marion-33
Nowitzki-33
Chandler-29

Lebron lost in Cleveland for the same reason he will lose in Miami... He gets in his own way. Choking during big games is nothing new for him. And he is no longer the NBA's darling he has lost that title to DRose and the Blake Show.

Stuckey#3
11-11-2011, 09:35 PM
if lebron had a prime shaq in any point of his career he would have atleast 4 rings, or if he played in a big market like LA that somehow is allowed to trade kwame for gasol,

Between Shaq's missed free throws and LeBrick's choking in the fourth quarter I don't see this happening.

ajnapoleon
11-11-2011, 09:40 PM
I know you hate the guy but damn could he at least get a guy that can create his own shot during those years?...i mean he came to the cavs and they had 17 wins!! and got them to 60 wins without a teammate that can get at least 15 points on his own i think that you can say he did well....how many 38-8-8 games he had to put up to win?...kobe came in and he sat on the beach i think for the first year or two...all im saying that its not level

smith&wesson
11-11-2011, 09:42 PM
it seems straight up unfair!...wow glen rice gasol 27 yr old shaq eddie jones robert horry...gary payton karl malone etc....oh and phil jackson coaching!...lebron...mo williams old ben wallace 36 yr old shaq?....

malone and payton were wayyyyyyy passed theyre prime and only played with kobe one season. Even then malone was injured that season.

Eddie jones was somthing special ? Every one thought he had sky high potential it just didnt turn out that way.

Also keep in mind that kobe stayed with the lakers through his career which gave his upper management alot more time to get those players around him.

Lebron fled. If he spent 13-14 seasons with the cavs then you could compare. But that didnt happen. So you cant compare.

How bout we list lebrons current team mates ? Would that seem more fair ? I think so.

Avenged
11-11-2011, 09:47 PM
So what's the point? that it's unfair? It's basketball. Kobe was fortunate enough to be drafted [or traded I should say] into a successful big market team. Lebron wasn't which is why he now plays for a big market team.

ajnapoleon
11-11-2011, 09:47 PM
@smithandwesson 13-14 years? after he is 32-33 and he cannot play like he can now and past his prime?..at that point just play out your years and fade away...no title at least he would be a hero to the cavs fans right?

smith&wesson
11-11-2011, 09:50 PM
I know you hate the guy but damn could he at least get a guy that can create his own shot during those years?...i mean he came to the cavs and they had 17 wins!! and got them to 60 wins without a teammate that can get at least 15 points on his own i think that you can say he did well....how many 38-8-8 games he had to put up to win?...kobe came in and he sat on the beach i think for the first year or two...all im saying that its not level

Kobe didnt come to the nba with the lable "king". kobe had to earn his spot fighting with eddie jones for a starting spot which he did. and since then he took off. no one handed him the keys and said go ahead. he earned his way.

is lebron a spectacular player ? yes he is and you would have to be an idiot to not see that. im not taking anything away from what lebron was able to do in clevland with limited talent around him. BUT how long was lebron in clevland for ? and how long has kobe been on LA ? whos to say that the cavs wouldnt have continued to brig talent in if given a chance ? lebron never gave them that chance. kobe did give the lakers that chance and they got him gasol. thats the difference.

if lebron went to the cavs and said listen i want to play with another star. get him or i will leave for a better opportunity. i bet my girls panties they would have spent the money to atain another star player.

ajnapoleon
11-11-2011, 09:51 PM
@avenged24 not saying that it was unfair per-say i made this because my buddy kept saying lebron had everything handed to him and we looked up the teammates and it shocked me how many all-stars and good players Kobe had not trying to troll or nothing thought it would be a good topic... both players are all-time greats for me.... I am a knick fan but i give props where its due and both players deserve it.

justinnum1
11-11-2011, 09:51 PM
He took Smush and Kwame to the playoffs in the west. That is the equivalent of winning a championship........

:facepalm:

Tony_Starks
11-11-2011, 09:56 PM
Its funny how when people talk about how bad Lebrons teams were everyone seems to conveniently forget that they were one of the best defensive teams in the league under a coach that learned defense from Greg Poppovich and they were winning 60 + games. Let me guess, Lebron was defending everyones man as well right?

I give Lebron props for doing the most with what he had but if you seriously think one player can consistently win 60 games or get to the finals singlehandedly then I seriously don't think you understand the game of basketball......

ajnapoleon
11-11-2011, 09:56 PM
@smithandwesson..Give the cavs a chance they had 7 years? should he had demanded in public that he wanted help? or talk behind a teammates back and get caught on tape doing it?(remember kobe did that to bynum?) maybe he tried to do it under the rader or maybe he did not who knows but they had him for 7 not three if you could not see that he needed a little help as a front office you are blind i seen games where he HAD to take every shot grab EVERY rebound and check the best player..Kobe did that and he wore down those years that he had no-one..No player can do it alone..it may look cool to us while they try but SOMEBODY else has to step up..dont you agree on that?

ajnapoleon
11-11-2011, 10:00 PM
@Tony_Starks yes the cavs was great on defense but when as a team can focus on one player and one player only it gets very easy to shut that team down if you have great coaching like the spurs did ti him that year in the finals..look at those games i think thats when Lebron said to him self i cant play 1-5 like this..

smith&wesson
11-11-2011, 10:01 PM
@smithandwesson..Give the cavs a chance they had 7 years? should he had demanded in public that he wanted help? or talk behind a teammates back and get caught on tape doing it?(remember kobe did that to bynum?) maybe he tried to do it under the rader or maybe he did not who knows but they had him for 7 not three if you could not see that he needed a little help as a front office you are blind i seen games where he HAD to take every shot grab EVERY rebound and check the best player..Kobe did that and he wore down those years that he had no-one..No player can do it alone..it may look cool to us while they try but SOMEBODY else has to step up..dont you agree on that?

plain and simple

kobe wanted help. he was vocal about it. he put the lakers under pressure to acomidate his wishes buy going to his owners and expressing it.

lebron didnt do that in clevland. he kept them in suspence and fled. im not saying he was wrong in doing so. but you cant say that if he spent another 7 years there that they wouldnt have gotten a star player to play with him. you know why ? because he didnt stay. and we dont know what could have been.

how can you argue somthing thats based on a huge "IF" ??

if lebron had stayed another 7 years he may or may not have had more talent around him. see what im doing here ?

ajnapoleon
11-11-2011, 10:09 PM
@Smthandwesson...my biggest question is...how long do you wait you cant get your 20's back when do you say look this "company or team" is not gonna give me what i need or want time to move on?..7-8-9-10 years? Once again it might be he was only 25 thing but it was 7 years and this situation is once in a life time to play with someone as good as you at the moment and get a one more guy...remember he did not break any laws i think he did not tell anyone what he was thinking because it would have been CRAZY in that town if it got out thats what he wanted to do while he was still playing there or in that town when it got out..I think there was no way out of there without some kind of angry backlash...i just think its a crazy situation altogether but still very amazing how it happened.

GhostfaceDrilla
11-11-2011, 10:23 PM
When Shaq was a Laker, the NBA was much better and more talented in my opinion at least. San Antonio was as good as them, Dallas was an elite contender all those years, Phoenix was an elite contender all those years, Houston was a very good team and a challenge for anyone in the first round, Sacramento for many of those years was an elite contender with Chris Webber, Peja, Bibby, and Divac.

2000-2006/7

Lakers
Spurs
Mavs
Suns
Kings

These were all elite powerhouses who could easily win the championship.

truther
11-11-2011, 10:24 PM
doubt it with those choke jobs he had in the Finals

lol how, all he needs to do ride shaq to titles and he would probably be with him longer since his ego isn't the kind that would drive shaq out of town, prime shaq could carry anyone to a championship in todays game, lebron would probably learn from him to.

truther
11-11-2011, 10:25 PM
Between Shaq's missed free throws and LeBrick's choking in the fourth quarter I don't see this happening.

who in todays game can even remotely come close to stoping prime shaq not even dwight can make him sweat.


So what's the point? that it's unfair? It's basketball. Kobe was fortunate enough to be drafted [or traded I should say] into a successful big market team. Lebron wasn't which is why he now plays for a big market team.

miami isn't a big market.

Tony_Starks
11-11-2011, 10:31 PM
@Tony_Starks yes the cavs was great on defense but when as a team can focus on one player and one player only it gets very easy to shut that team down if you have great coaching like the spurs did ti him that year in the finals..look at those games i think thats when Lebron said to him self i cant play 1-5 like this..


I don't think that argument holds too much merit for the simple fact that he had two allstars this year and gave the exact same performance in the finals. There's no more excuses we can make for him he's simply not a closer at this point.

I think he's one of the best in the game but I don't buy into the pity party of him doing it all alone in Cleveland. They could've gave him better support sure but for the most part they gave him guys that complimented his style of play. Its not the easiest thing in the world playing effectively with a guy that dominates the ball the majority of the shot clock and expects you to make something happen when you get it with like 5 seconds left.....

kblo247
11-11-2011, 10:32 PM
who in todays game can even remotely come close to stoping prime shaq not even dwight can make him sweat.
.

The arena concession shops that are now in more arenas than they were in 2001 when he started becoming a Klump progressively every year

D1JM
11-11-2011, 10:32 PM
The lebron haters are as annoying as the lebron lovers.

D1JM
11-11-2011, 10:40 PM
I don't get what's the point of trying to compare Kobe's teammates to the teammates lebron had. Lebron had a lot of power in Cleveland and gave the ok for the players they acquired. Every season people would say no one is stopping lebron from winning this year, especially since they would have the best record in the league. Come finals, lebron can't do it by himself. Who bailed out team USA for the gold? Kobe. Kobe just knows how to win

smith&wesson
11-11-2011, 11:54 PM
@Smthandwesson...my biggest question is...how long do you wait you cant get your 20's back when do you say look this "company or team" is not gonna give me what i need or want time to move on?..7-8-9-10 years? Once again it might be he was only 25 thing but it was 7 years and this situation is once in a life time to play with someone as good as you at the moment and get a one more guy...remember he did not break any laws i think he did not tell anyone what he was thinking because it would have been CRAZY in that town if it got out thats what he wanted to do while he was still playing there or in that town when it got out..I think there was no way out of there without some kind of angry backlash...i just think its a crazy situation altogether but still very amazing how it happened.

my man just quote me it would be alot easier for ya...

im not saying that if i was lebron i wouldnt have left clevland for miami. honeslty how many ppl in their right minds wouldnt have done the same ? i dont agree with HOW he did it. but never the less i think he made the best career choice for himself.

all i was saying is that you cant compare the talent leve kobe has had to lebron in clevland because kobe was in LA twice as long. who knows what would have trasnpired if lebron had stayed with the cavs.

also kobe had the blessing of being drafted by a large market team where as lebron was drafted to a smaller market. common sence says that kobe would have more talent being in a more desirable city.

truther
11-11-2011, 11:59 PM
I don't get what's the point of trying to compare Kobe's teammates to the teammates lebron had. Lebron had a lot of power in Cleveland and gave the ok for the players they acquired. Every season people would say no one is stopping lebron from winning this year, especially since they would have the best record in the league. Come finals, lebron can't do it by himself. Who bailed out team USA for the gold? Kobe. Kobe just knows how to win

and every year his team mates would forget how to play basketball in the playoffs, what do you mean come finals he's only been in the finals once with cleve and that was when he wasn't even conisdered a top player and his team won like 40 something games.

mlisica19
11-12-2011, 12:12 AM
He took Smush and Kwame to the playoffs in the west. That is the equivalent of winning a championship........

Nothing is equivalent to winning a championship...

We all know LeBron has the best raw talent in the game. Except what is talent when its not used properly...

He is just a kid livin the dream, relying on his skills to bring him all the way.

1) I noticed it when Howard won the dunk contest a few years back...
He promised to the fans that he would do it next year... has yet to do it. After two years of not doing it I thought the guy was just scared to lose.

2) Then I realized how many theatrics the guy pulls during game time. The powder before each game is sick but to come out each game with your teammates with a new entrance or celebration each time just makes me wonder... its game time, what is the guys mind focused on all day, all practice? Like well thought out team celebrations. Getting Shaq onto the team did not help haha. After a while, losing playoff series and what not I realized that Mike Brown had no control over the team or LeBron. It seemed LeBron was planning on what jerseys to wear rather than the game plan

3) Then during the decision... he waits until two big name superstars of the game decide to play in Miami. Where does he go... Miami. His owner and team found out his decision at the very same time we all found out. Not only that, but what kind of athlete goes onto ESPN to do a whole big thing about the next place he is playing. I would have loved to hear the guy say I am staying n my hometown and the team that drafted me because I am not done here but no.... he goes exactly where a rockstar would love to live. Miami, great scenery/girls/big market/superstar teammates. The LIFE... Hes a kid livin the dream, not taking the NBA seriously

4) I also noticed 2 years ago... ESPN caught on camera two things. a) Kobe scoring a trick shot before a game, lucky shot too. b) ESPN was at Orlandos practice and caught on tape that Dwight Howard scored a shot from half court. Well guess who sent in videos of themself mimicking or outdoing both those shots. LeBron. Kind of childish, needing the limelight a lil 2 much buddy?

5) Goes onto Miami, and first sign of trouble the 3 big superstars are blaming the coach. Why? Because the guy wasnt going to be a Mike Brown and let the trio do whatever they wanted. They tried to complain... but Riley set them straight. And then poking fun at Dirk being sick... Good job Dirk in making sure your teammates know not to comment on that situation and focusing on the championship.

mlisica19
11-12-2011, 12:18 AM
Outside sources about Lebron

1) USA team was really close to kicking him off the team. Coach K did not like his attitude. Late to practices, was not trying to strengthen relationships with teammates or coaches. Was fooling around. They had Jason Kidd be his roomate (captain for USA) and set him straight
2) His sponsors were aware of his attitude and lack of effort that they sent him a note saying he better shape up or hes off the contract. I think the sponsor was Nike... and others, this is when they heard about him almost being kicked off USA.
3) Shaq states in his book that he was getting unfair treatment. Though he was making crucial team mistakes. Defensive responsibilities being blown, lack of effort etc etc
4) Cavs owner took it all out on Lebron for being disrespectful in his decision and how he went about it. He was known by the franchise as being lackadaisical, practically giving up assignments and careless but they let it slide hoping LeBron would stay.


Dont get me wrong, a lot of these athletes especially in teh NBA are like this. But when ur LeBron, your suppose to be a role model. An image more than just saying HEY IF YOU HAVE SKILL.. YOU CAN BE GREAT. No! it should be, no matter what! Work hard. That is what Jordan tried to show everyone, and he did for a long time but people are forgetting the image.

Dont get me wrong, Jordan and kobe had issues.
Both egotistical, but they straightened up fast and look what happened.

mamba24
11-12-2011, 12:24 AM
if lebron had a prime shaq in any point of his career he would have atleast 4 rings, or if he played in a big market like LA that somehow is allowed to trade kwame for gasol,

wrong because shaq wouldve *****ed about lebron like he *****ed about kobe... shaq woulda forced a trade to another team after a couple years

truther
11-12-2011, 12:30 AM
wrong because shaq wouldve *****ed about lebron like he *****ed about kobe... shaq woulda forced a trade to another team after a couple years

hmm maybe you're right, but i don't think he'd **** about him so early it would probably have tooken bron years to get on shaqs level.


Outside sources about Lebron

1) USA team was really close to kicking him off the team. Coach K did not like his attitude. Late to practices, was not trying to strengthen relationships with teammates or coaches. Was fooling around. They had Jason Kidd be his roomate (captain for USA) and set him straight
2) His sponsors were aware of his attitude and lack of effort that they sent him a note saying he better shape up or hes off the contract. I think the sponsor was Nike... and others, this is when they heard about him almost being kicked off USA.
3) Shaq states in his book that he was getting unfair treatment. Though he was making crucial team mistakes. Defensive responsibilities being blown, lack of effort etc etc
4) Cavs owner took it all out on Lebron for being disrespectful in his decision and how he went about it. He was known by the franchise as being lackadaisical, practically giving up assignments and careless but they let it slide hoping LeBron would stay.


Dont get me wrong, a lot of these athletes especially in teh NBA are like this. But when ur LeBron, your suppose to be a role model. An image more than just saying HEY IF YOU HAVE SKILL.. YOU CAN BE GREAT. No! it should be, no matter what! Work hard. That is what Jordan tried to show everyone, and he did for a long time but people are forgetting the image.

Dont get me wrong, Jordan and kobe had issues.
Both egotistical, but they straightened up fast and look what happened.

lol outside sources, in other word **** i made cause i can't get over my hate for bron.

chrism8188
11-12-2011, 12:47 AM
lol how, all he needs to do ride shaq to titles and he would probably be with him longer since his ego isn't the kind that would drive shaq out of town, prime shaq could carry anyone to a championship in todays game, lebron would probably learn from him to.


You have to be biased or a complete idiot to say his ego would not make a difference. HE LEFT CLEVELAND because of it. I respect lebron, he is a beast, but he choked in the finals. He went there with a trash team, and with a great team. Its about TEAM ball, not solo crap. Thats why MAVS are champs. no what ifs.

truther
11-12-2011, 12:49 AM
You have to be biased or a complete idiot to say his ego would not make a difference. HE LEFT CLEVELAND because of it. I respect lebron, he is a beast, but he choked in the finals. He went there with a trash team, and with a great team. Its about TEAM ball, not solo crap. Thats why MAVS are champs. no what ifs.

think about kobe wanted shaq to leave because he wanted to be the man, lebron doesn't care about that reason why he joined wade.

chrism8188
11-12-2011, 12:58 AM
think about kobe wanted shaq to leave because he wanted to be the man, lebron doesn't care about that reason why he joined wade.

what im trying to say is no matter who u got on a team, if u dont produce and WIN as a team, ur screwed. No matter who u have around u. Look at dirk, his whole team is good but not great, the vets used their IQ, role players played their roles, and dirk finished. TEAM BALL. no ifs. if they woulda lost ppl would have complained "if" they would had better players they could have won the championship. But what happened? they did win, with what they have.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-12-2011, 06:50 AM
Simply put

Kobe has played with championship caliber help for 11 years of his career.

LeBron has played with championship caliber help for 1 year.

Kobe probably had the weakest roster support for a 2 years out of either.

wrong

time4change
11-12-2011, 10:13 AM
It seems straight up unfair!...wow glen rice gasol 27 yr old Shaq eddie jones robert horry...gary payton karl malone Etc....Oh and Phil Jackson coaching!...Lebron...Mo williams old ben wallace 36 yr old Shaq?....

Really?

Another Defend your "why The Bron still hasn't won a championship," thread?

This simply amazes me year after year, let down after let down, fourth quarter failure after fourth quarter failure and yet some of you fans just still sit there and make excuses for The Bron.

It's funny, but sad.

God damn if only The Bron could get a decent teammate...:facepalm:

time4change
11-12-2011, 10:17 AM
and every year his team mates would forget how to play basketball in the playoffs, what do you mean come finals he's only been in the finals once with cleve and that was when he wasn't even conisdered a top player and his team won like 40 something games.

I'm sorry but do you close your eyes when you watch The Bron play in the playoffs?

Did you happen to watch him last year? Did you not see CHRIS BOSH outplay The Bron?!

Seriously some of you are so delusional.

time4change
11-12-2011, 10:24 AM
if lebron had a prime shaq in any point of his career he would have atleast 4 rings, or if he played in a big market like LA that somehow is allowed to trade kwame for gasol,

Right because Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh aren't good right?

Give me a break.

The Bron could get Shaq in his prime, lose and guess what?!!


Most of you would still find a way to make excuses for the guy.

Simply put. The guy is not in the same breath as Kobe sorry.

Rings matter. Slapping powder in your hands before every game and acting like a dipshit do not.

truther
11-12-2011, 10:52 AM
I'm sorry but do you close your eyes when you watch The Bron play in the playoffs?

Did you happen to watch him last year? Did you not see CHRIS BOSH outplay The Bron?!

Seriously some of you are so delusional.

do you? maybe you should take off your hater glasses, bron is 5th all time in points per game in the playoffs.


Right because Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh aren't good right?

Give me a break.

The Bron could get Shaq in his prime, lose and guess what?!!


Most of you would still find a way to make excuses for the guy.

Simply put. The guy is not in the same breath as Kobe sorry.

Rings matter. Slapping powder in your hands before every game and acting like a dipshit do not.

i acknowledge lebron had enough help this year and he choked bad, i don't think anyone can make an excuse for him he choked and thats it. but i was talking about his cleve years mostly where he spent 8 of his 9 years in the league in.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-12-2011, 11:15 AM
do you? maybe you should take off your hater glasses, bron is 5th all time in points per game in the playoffs.



i acknowledge lebron had enough help this year and he choked bad, i don't think anyone can make an excuse for him he choked and thats it. but i was talking about his cleve years mostly where he spent 8 of his 9 years in the league in.

what about finals?

Hawkeye15
11-12-2011, 11:30 AM
wrong

please show me how I wrong. Show me where a single one of his Cleveland rosters were championship caliber. A great regular season record is not indicative of the strength of a team come playoff time. I can honestly say I never thought his Cleveland teams were a threat to win a title unless he put on the greatest playoff performance of all time.

Tony_Starks
11-12-2011, 12:36 PM
please show me how I wrong. Show me where a single one of his Cleveland rosters were championship caliber. A great regular season record is not indicative of the strength of a team come playoff time. I can honestly say I never thought his Cleveland teams were a threat to win a title unless he put on the greatest playoff performance of all time.


As great as Lebron is nobody single handedly wins three 7 game series by themselves. Not even him. In particular when you're playing against a defense like Detroit had at the time.

People confuse Lebron not having a clear cut number 2 option with not having any help at all. When he made the finals the whole starting lineup was in double figures and he had rebounders and spot up shooters coming off the bench. Boobie Gibson set a playoff record that year and was killin from downtown until the finals......

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-12-2011, 12:45 PM
please show me how I wrong. Show me where a single one of his Cleveland rosters were championship caliber. A great regular season record is not indicative of the strength of a team come playoff time. I can honestly say I never thought his Cleveland teams were a threat to win a title unless he put on the greatest playoff performance of all time.

You cant be serious about that?

31 times out of 65 seasons the team with a best record has won the title.

zizo
11-12-2011, 02:37 PM
LeBrick has lost in the playoffs with HCA 3 times in a row and all as the
hands down favorite

IS that a record?
















-

beliges
11-12-2011, 03:30 PM
lol how, all he needs to do ride shaq to titles and he would probably be with him longer since his ego isn't the kind that would drive shaq out of town, prime shaq could carry anyone to a championship in todays game, lebron would probably learn from him to.

Lebron's ego is big enough however to have a one hour special on television telling the entire world where he will take his talents next. Dont know how well that ego will mesh with Shaq's. Furthermore, from what I can remember Kobe won more without Shaq than Shaq ever won without Kobe, think that means anything to you? Lastly, Kobe was the go to guy in the clutch for those 3 titles with Shaq. Lebron, on the other hand has proven to be very unclutch in the playoffs. Take for example 2000 WCF game 7 against Portland. When Shaq layed a huge egg and performed poorly, who carried the Lakers in what was the biggest game for that franchise in over a decade? Kobe. Shaq was a great player but without Kobe being Kobe in the clutch, there was no 3 peat. And at this point its not far fetched at all to say that Lebron is nowhere near Kobe in crunch time, especially in the playoffs.

Tony_Starks
11-12-2011, 03:48 PM
Lebron's ego is big enough however to have a one hour special on television telling the entire world where he will take his talents next. Dont know how well that ego will mesh with Shaq's. Furthermore, from what I can remember Kobe won more without Shaq than Shaq ever won without Kobe, think that means anything to you? Lastly, Kobe was the go to guy in the clutch for those 3 titles with Shaq. Lebron, on the other hand has proven to be very unclutch in the playoffs. Take for example 2000 WCF game 7 against Portland. When Shaq layed a huge egg and performed poorly, who carried the Lakers in what was the biggest game for that franchise in over a decade? Kobe. Shaq was a great player but without Kobe being Kobe in the clutch, there was no 3 peat. And at this point its not far fetched at all to say that Lebron is nowhere near Kobe in crunch time, especially in the playoffs.



:clap: Take em to church!!!

Shaq won chips with 2 great closers in Kobe and Wade. Lebron is to put it nicely not a closer by any stretch of the imagination.

Ethix11
11-12-2011, 03:59 PM
is this more MIA "fake fans" whining??? i think it is....


Lebron had Wade, Bosh, and also Bibby and Miller who are good role players and didn't win and probably won't cuz Lebron chokes in the clutch. Always has. he won't win anything until he realizes he needs to let someone else take the last shot in a close game cuz he SUCKS at it.

Is this more NY "jilted fans" whining??? i think is is....

truther
11-12-2011, 04:05 PM
Lebron's ego is big enough however to have a one hour special on television telling the entire world where he will take his talents next. Dont know how well that ego will mesh with Shaq's. Furthermore, from what I can remember Kobe won more without Shaq than Shaq ever won without Kobe, think that means anything to you? Lastly, Kobe was the go to guy in the clutch for those 3 titles with Shaq. Lebron, on the other hand has proven to be very unclutch in the playoffs. Take for example 2000 WCF game 7 against Portland. When Shaq layed a huge egg and performed poorly, who carried the Lakers in what was the biggest game for that franchise in over a decade? Kobe. Shaq was a great player but without Kobe being Kobe in the clutch, there was no 3 peat. And at this point its not far fetched at all to say that Lebron is nowhere near Kobe in crunch time, especially in the playoffs.

let me set something straight im not in no way saying lebron is better than kobe in any way, even im not biased enough not to know lebron has a lot of catcing up to do.

anyways, i didn't say lebron doesn't have a huge ego, what i meant was his isn't the kind that pushes to be the MAN at all times where as kobe,tmac guys like that prefer to be the man, so a shaq,lebron ego may not be the kinds that clash.

lastly, lebron has been more clutch in the playoffs than 90% of the league,and had more clutch perfromances than choke perfrmances so therefore he's clutch in the playoffs and among the best playoff performers.

truther
11-12-2011, 04:07 PM
:clap: Take em to church!!!

Shaq won chips with 2 great closers in Kobe and Wade. Lebron is to put it nicely not a closer by any stretch of the imagination.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xmvh1leMvcg&feature=related

mlisica19
11-12-2011, 05:56 PM
please show me how I wrong. Show me where a single one of his Cleveland rosters were championship caliber. A great regular season record is not indicative of the strength of a team come playoff time. I can honestly say I never thought his Cleveland teams were a threat to win a title unless he put on the greatest playoff performance of all time.

Actually it pretty much does...

When you are one of the best teams in the regular season, your pretty much one of the best teams going into post season.

But no one will face the fact that LeBron might just be an immature child. Not the next Jordan, the next Allen Iverson.

A guy who things training is when you go to team practice. A guy who believes that preparing for a game is looking for the cameras, making the crowd cheer and doing some cool walk in entrances with your team.

The reason he did not win anything yet is because he doesnt have the maturity or work ethic to be a leader on or off the court for his team. In the playoffs, these are the best 7 teams your going up against. Teams that WANT it BAD. Teams that will spend hours and days on film and practice. We all know LeBron aint doing any of that. Or at least the minimal amount that his coach makes them do. Kobe is studying game and practicing his shot every chance he gets. Thats why his team lost out on winning it all every year, on any team he goes to.

The only reason his team did as well as they did this year is because their is no cap space in the league and Miami was able to scoop up 3 big name players. 3 of the top 15, 2 of the top 5.

truther
11-12-2011, 06:01 PM
Actually it pretty much does...

When you are one of the best teams in the regular season, your pretty much one of the best teams going into post season.

But no one will face the fact that LeBron might just be an immature child. Not the next Jordan, the next Allen Iverson.

A guy who things training is when you go to team practice. A guy who believes that preparing for a game is looking for the cameras, making the crowd cheer and doing some cool walk in entrances with your team.

The reason he did not win anything yet is because he doesnt have the maturity or work ethic to be a leader on or off the court for his team. In the playoffs, these are the best 7 teams your going up against. Teams that WANT it BAD. Teams that will spend hours and days on film and practice. We all know LeBron aint doing any of that. Or at least the minimal amount that his coach makes them do. Kobe is studying game and practicing his shot every chance he gets. Thats why his team lost out on winning it all every year, on any team he goes to.

The only reason his team did as well as they did this year is because their is no cap space in the league and Miami was able to scoop up 3 big name players. 3 of the top 15, 2 of the top 5.

i find it laughable that you think you know what lebron is doing behind close doors.

mlisica19
11-12-2011, 11:03 PM
i find it laughable that you think you know what lebron is doing behind close doors.

I said what I thought through his actions... I followed it by facts.

When he was with the Cavs...
1) The team had a new jersey every week.
2) Every single game, James and the team would come in with a new entrance. Or a new celebration.

These are things I see...
It seemed to me that he was more involved with trying to make everyone impressed than trying to win the game.

His owner will confirm that James "gave up" on the team multiple times especially in the playoffs. Shaq confirmed this. He was given special treatment like no other superstar. Blown assignments, not being critiqued on his laziness. These are things we saw in his play, these are things his teammates knew he would do.

So where am I just ASSUMING anything? Everything I said were facts.

James was suppose to be kicked out of the USA team... Its not the first time Coach K had an issue with LeBron. Last summer when James said no to playing for team USA, he was the only big name player whose excuse was to focus on his future with the NBA. Everyone like Kobe, Wade were banged up or coming off surgery. Coach K said if he dont play, he doesnt want James playing for him ever again.

Is it shocking that James is a kid with so much power, given special treatment. Hes a spoiled player.

his decisions... and how he decides to go about those decisions is what makes LeBron... LeBron. And frankly, Im not impressed with any player who relies on his skill and acts like hes king of the world.

Do I have to remind you his quote after he lost the Championship? How he stated his life was better than all of his haters... cuz they live a "normal" sad life.

mdm692
11-12-2011, 11:22 PM
Compare their competition as well.

truther
11-12-2011, 11:24 PM
I said what I thought through his actions... I followed it by facts.

When he was with the Cavs...
1) The team had a new jersey every week.
2) Every single game, James and the team would come in with a new entrance. Or a new celebration.

These are things I see...
It seemed to me that he was more involved with trying to make everyone impressed than trying to win the game.

His owner will confirm that James "gave up" on the team multiple times especially in the playoffs. Shaq confirmed this. He was given special treatment like no other superstar. Blown assignments, not being critiqued on his laziness. These are things we saw in his play, these are things his teammates knew he would do.

So where am I just ASSUMING anything? Everything I said were facts.

James was suppose to be kicked out of the USA team... Its not the first time Coach K had an issue with LeBron. Last summer when James said no to playing for team USA, he was the only big name player whose excuse was to focus on his future with the NBA. Everyone like Kobe, Wade were banged up or coming off surgery. Coach K said if he dont play, he doesnt want James playing for him ever again.

Is it shocking that James is a kid with so much power, given special treatment. Hes a spoiled player.

his decisions... and how he decides to go about those decisions is what makes LeBron... LeBron. And frankly, Im not impressed with any player who relies on his skill and acts like hes king of the world.

Do I have to remind you his quote after he lost the Championship? How he stated his life was better than all of his haters... cuz they live a "normal" sad life.

can you give me proof where shaq confirmed lebron quit,or where he was suppose to be kicked out of team usa.

those poses before the game was lebron being himself and having fun not to impress anyone, that was a collecive thing the whole team did it should how close they all were.

and it seems you misunderstood his comment after the finals, im not suprised as you already have set in your head to hate what ever lebron james does.

Sactown
11-13-2011, 01:30 AM
I said what I thought through his actions... I followed it by facts.

When he was with the Cavs...
1) The team had a new jersey every week.
2) Every single game, James and the team would come in with a new entrance. Or a new celebration.

These are things I see...
It seemed to me that he was more involved with trying to make everyone impressed than trying to win the game.

His owner will confirm that James "gave up" on the team multiple times especially in the playoffs. Shaq confirmed this. He was given special treatment like no other superstar. Blown assignments, not being critiqued on his laziness. These are things we saw in his play, these are things his teammates knew he would do.

So where am I just ASSUMING anything? Everything I said were facts.

James was suppose to be kicked out of the USA team... Its not the first time Coach K had an issue with LeBron. Last summer when James said no to playing for team USA, he was the only big name player whose excuse was to focus on his future with the NBA. Everyone like Kobe, Wade were banged up or coming off surgery. Coach K said if he dont play, he doesnt want James playing for him ever again.

Is it shocking that James is a kid with so much power, given special treatment. Hes a spoiled player.

his decisions... and how he decides to go about those decisions is what makes LeBron... LeBron. And frankly, Im not impressed with any player who relies on his skill and acts like hes king of the world.

Do I have to remind you his quote after he lost the Championship? How he stated his life was better than all of his haters... cuz they live a "normal" sad life.

Well you are assuming a lot of things... a owner of a team (Lebron left in questionable fashion) was very angry and still is to this day, reliable source? questionable at best.. Shaq, who has absolutely bashed everyone in his career and has never put blame on himself, reliable source? questionable at best. Yes Lebron danced and put on a show before every game and during the games at time as well, but let's remember.. Lebron James is playing a GAME and he is also fairly immature, FROM what we've heard and seen, but a man can't show up in excellent shape every single year and have a poor work ethic.. a man can't show up every single year and dominate in almost every aspect of the game without watching film and working hard.. AS IF the Nba is something easily achieved.. I hate when people assume players are lazy, when clearly their bodies and talent show otherwise. He will get his ring and in good time, do I believe he did it in the best fashion? No.. but do I believe he will be one of the greatest to ever play the game at the end? Yes. And as if Kobe doesn't have a large ego :facepalm: PSD LA fans make me laugh.. quit bashing Lebron he is the best player in the game today

mlisica19
11-13-2011, 02:49 AM
I believe that the best survive. As a pro athlete, I am sure LeBron is doing what he needs to do to stay in shape. But he is not doing enough. And beyond his work ethic, its his preparation for each game as well.

http://messageboards.aol.com/aol/en_us/articles.php?boardId=149086&articleId=43279&func=5
This is one of the MANY links that show that LeBron James was close to being kicked off Team USA. Look it up yourself... heck! I heard it first on PSD.

Shaq never said he gave up... I never said those words. I said the Cavs owner said he gave up. Shaq is the one who recently wrote a book about how he was given special treatment. Coaches and owners allowed him to get away with laziness and missing defensive assignments.

I hate the guy because of his decisions and how he went about those decisions. Not everything he does I hate... he stood up for Tebow, I applaud him for that. He pokes fun at Dirk Nowitzki in the finals, I boo him for that. He wants to own Liverpool, go ahead. He wants to go join the Miami Heat a week after they just brought together two other superstars... Can anyone say Homer.

His training doesnt impress me. When I look at Jordan, I looked at his training and his work ethic and I said WOW. The guy really wants it. When I see James, I see a guy who says he wants it, but doesnt really fight for it the most he can.

I am even shocked he worked with Hakeem over the summer. The first thing he needs to work on and the team needs him to work on is his outside shooting. His accuracy and his confidence in his shot. Except, he goes to train with Hakeem on his down low game. Isnt that what CHris Bosh was brought in for?

mlisica19
11-13-2011, 03:08 AM
Oh and I am not a Laker fan. I am a fan of athletes who go above and beyond of their natural ability show that when the time comes their ready to step up.

Does the guy have immense talent and skill, yes. Do I care? No. Its how you use that skill and from what I have seen hes done nothing impressing.

I look at him and his decisions of his past remind me of what kind of guy he really is. He left his home town and the team that drafted him (as if the team was the worst in the league) and left for a team who had just signed 2 superstars. Telling 90% of the world including his former owner and team through ESPN interview. How egotistical are you.

Kobe is confident, Jordan was confident. They worked hard enough to be. They worked mentally and physically, and they too were immature athletes at one point in their life but they changed. They learned and matured.

Thats how I feel, he can change my mind but so far hes done nothing to do so. And its going to take more than JUST winning 1, 2, 3, nor 5,6,7 championships to do so.

Supreme LA
11-13-2011, 06:19 AM
Oh and I am not a Laker fan. I am a fan of athletes who go above and beyond of their natural ability show that when the time comes their ready to step up.

Does the guy have immense talent and skill, yes. Do I care? No. Its how you use that skill and from what I have seen hes done nothing impressing.

I look at him and his decisions of his past remind me of what kind of guy he really is. He left his home town and the team that drafted him (as if the team was the worst in the league) and left for a team who had just signed 2 superstars. Telling 90% of the world including his former owner and team through ESPN interview. How egotistical are you.

Kobe is confident, Jordan was confident. They worked hard enough to be. They worked mentally and physically, and they too were immature athletes at one point in their life but they changed. They learned and matured.

Thats how I feel, he can change my mind but so far hes done nothing to do so. And its going to take more than JUST winning 1, 2, 3, nor 5,6,7 championships to do so.

This, this, & THIS!

If Lebron put in half the work that Kobe put into his game we would have seen him develop other parts of his game already. Lebron is a freak of an athlete but not the type of basketball skilled player that I can respect. He has plenty of time to change my mind if he can develop some footwork, a post game, a a jumper, and his ball handling.

Lebron is probably the most gifted athlete we have ever seen in the NBA, but his basketball skills and IQ measure nowhere near Jordan or Kobe.

pjstjkvc16
11-13-2011, 09:26 AM
doubt it with those choke jobs he had in the Finals

At least he made the Finals. Your player arguably had 4 all stars on his team and got SWEPT. Almost lost by 40 in Game 4. Try explaining that

xxplayerxx23
11-13-2011, 10:19 AM
kobe> Lebron :D just sayin

time4change
11-13-2011, 11:35 AM
Well you are assuming a lot of things... a owner of a team (Lebron left in questionable fashion) was very angry and still is to this day, reliable source? questionable at best.. Shaq, who has absolutely bashed everyone in his career and has never put blame on himself, reliable source? questionable at best. Yes Lebron danced and put on a show before every game and during the games at time as well, but let's remember.. Lebron James is playing a GAME and he is also fairly immature, FROM what we've heard and seen, but a man can't show up in excellent shape every single year and have a poor work ethic.. a man can't show up every single year and dominate in almost every aspect of the game without watching film and working hard.. AS IF the Nba is something easily achieved.. I hate when people assume players are lazy, when clearly their bodies and talent show otherwise. He will get his ring and in good time, do I believe he did it in the best fashion? No.. but do I believe he will be one of the greatest to ever play the game at the end? Yes. And as if Kobe doesn't have a large ego :facepalm: PSD LA fans make me laugh.. quit bashing Lebron he is the best player in the game today

Worst argument I've heard so far.

What because he's naturally athletic looking that means that he is a hard worker!!

Give me a break.

Unfortunately for you that's not the case. Stats are nice but they only tell half of his story.

In comparison look at what Magic Johnson had to say about this, you know a guy who ACTUALLY knows the game. Pretty sure he along with 90% of other players would say the same thing.

truther
11-13-2011, 11:42 AM
I believe that the best survive. As a pro athlete, I am sure LeBron is doing what he needs to do to stay in shape. But he is not doing enough. And beyond his work ethic, its his preparation for each game as well.

http://messageboards.aol.com/aol/en_us/articles.php?boardId=149086&articleId=43279&func=5
This is one of the MANY links that show that LeBron James was close to being kicked off Team USA. Look it up yourself... heck! I heard it first on PSD.

Shaq never said he gave up... I never said those words. I said the Cavs owner said he gave up. Shaq is the one who recently wrote a book about how he was given special treatment. Coaches and owners allowed him to get away with laziness and missing defensive assignments.

I hate the guy because of his decisions and how he went about those decisions. Not everything he does I hate... he stood up for Tebow, I applaud him for that. He pokes fun at Dirk Nowitzki in the finals, I boo him for that. He wants to own Liverpool, go ahead. He wants to go join the Miami Heat a week after they just brought together two other superstars... Can anyone say Homer.

His training doesnt impress me. When I look at Jordan, I looked at his training and his work ethic and I said WOW. The guy really wants it. When I see James, I see a guy who says he wants it, but doesnt really fight for it the most he can.

I am even shocked he worked with Hakeem over the summer. The first thing he needs to work on and the team needs him to work on is his outside shooting. His accuracy and his confidence in his shot. Except, he goes to train with Hakeem on his down low game. Isnt that what CHris Bosh was brought in for?

first bron is a very good shooter, only thing he struggles with is the 3pt shot which a lot of players in the league do and he did shoot a better percentage than kobe from behind the arc, second his post game is actually very imp,currently his offense is predictable so since hes much bigger than most pfs working on his post game would be huge. no chris bosh wasn't brought in for that because it was already known he doens't have much of a post game and it was his face up game which was his strength.

truther
11-13-2011, 11:46 AM
This, this, & THIS!

If Lebron put in half the work that Kobe put into his game we would have seen him develop other parts of his game already. Lebron is a freak of an athlete but not the type of basketball skilled player that I can respect. He has plenty of time to change my mind if he can develop some footwork, a post game, a a jumper, and his ball handling.

Lebron is probably the most gifted athlete we have ever seen in the NBA, but his basketball skills and IQ measure nowhere near Jordan or Kobe.

lebron didn't develop a jumper and most confusingly you think theres something wrong with his ball handling at his size the way he handles the ball is phenominal.

mlisica19
11-13-2011, 11:55 AM
Chris Bosh was brought in to play the down low game.

On top of that, just because James has a better shooting % does not mean hes a better shooter. Kobe also takes a heck of alot more shots, but at least he comes up in the clutch.

Everyone who is an NBA analyst will agree with my analysis of his game. HE IS AN AVG SHOOTER AT BEST. And I even remember hearing during the finals on ESPN radio, that James should have already been at a different level with his shooting.

He took a big step with his shooting from when he was 18 to 21 going from a terrible shooter to a avg one but now he hasnt changed much at all.

ONE OF THE GREATEST BASKETBALL PLAYERS (which you guys are implying) should have taken the next step again and again. And with last years finals, you can see that his shooting is still avg and inconsistent.

But I dont care if hes a great shooter or a bad one. I see his work ethic, and that too is half *****. He left the Cavs because he wanted the spotlight but he didnt want all the responsibility. That says a whole lot about his character.

And I am starting to disrespect Dwight Howard. He stated last year that this was just a game, and he should have fun. Now I agree you should love what you do, but he has to understand that the game is more than a game. And that didnt bother me half as much as when he said that he has nothing left to do in Orlando. The guy hasnt even won a championship and hes already given up on the team.

Modern day Shaq huh? ugh whats wrong with these athletes

mlisica19
11-13-2011, 12:04 PM
lebron didn't develop a jumper and most confusingly you think theres something wrong with his ball handling at his size the way he handles the ball is phenominal.

Yes its SHOCKING to see a guy of his height handle the ball like he does. Except I dont care how good you look when you play the game. He also has an over abundance of traveling calls (whether it was called or not).

OH And I forgot about the other things that pissed me off about LeBron.
1) I forgot about the rock concert they held for JUST the three "superstars" On miami. And how he basically said he will win more with them than Jordan did with the Bulls. Basically Implied but not directly said

2) In the finals (Every game). I watched closely, but replayed would show how Lebron would complain at every call. Even when it was plain and clear a foul on LeBron. And Complain even more when he was stuffed and he was wondering why there was no call. YOu are the player! Have a sense of honesty my god, its one thing to do it here and there but the entire series? The world stage, grow up.

mlisica19
11-13-2011, 12:08 PM
If I had a choice between Kobe or James on my team. I choose Kobe. Hes a true leader. He inspires through voice and action. Teammates are inspired by his knack to continue to grow as a player.

Dirk or James. Dirk

Durant or James. James

Its now whose more talented, who has a prettier dribble, who is bigger or faster. I would choose anyone over James, simply because hes no team player. Hes a child in a mans body. A big mans body but thats neither here or there. James is exactly like how Kobe was back in his first 5 seasons, and Jordans first 3 seasons. Except now its James 8th season... hes acting more like Allen Iverson, but at least AI never betrayed his team with a decision to go somewhere else. He never joined a superstar team.

truther
11-13-2011, 12:13 PM
Chris Bosh was brought in to play the down low game.

On top of that, just because James has a better shooting % does not mean hes a better shooter. Kobe also takes a heck of alot more shots, but at least he comes up in the clutch.

Everyone who is an NBA analyst will agree with my analysis of his game. HE IS AN AVG SHOOTER AT BEST. And I even remember hearing during the finals on ESPN radio, that James should have already been at a different level with his shooting.

He took a big step with his shooting from when he was 18 to 21 going from a terrible shooter to a avg one but now he hasnt changed much at all.

ONE OF THE GREATEST BASKETBALL PLAYERS (which you guys are implying) should have taken the next step again and again. And with last years finals, you can see that his shooting is still avg and inconsistent.

But I dont care if hes a great shooter or a bad one. I see his work ethic, and that too is half *****. He left the Cavs because he wanted the spotlight but he didnt want all the responsibility. That says a whole lot about his character.

And I am starting to disrespect Dwight Howard. He stated last year that this was just a game, and he should have fun. Now I agree you should love what you do, but he has to understand that the game is more than a game. And that didnt bother me half as much as when he said that he has nothing left to do in Orlando. The guy hasnt even won a championship and hes already given up on the team.

Modern day Shaq huh? ugh whats wrong with these athletes

if they did brought him in to play the down low game he sure as hell isn't doing any of that, what im saying is lebrons offense is predictable so getting easy baskets in the post would be huge especially with his passing skills he could pass out of the double team to open team mates.

nba analyst would not agree with you assesment of lebron being a avg shooter, he is second behind ray allen in mid range shots % among swing men who play 35 min per game,ahead of durant,melo,wade,.

kobe does not take a heck of alot more shots he takes 1.2 more shots than lebron.

idk why you care so much if players leave their teams as if they owe something to them they are free agents and its their right to sign anywhere else, dwight has been nothing but loyal he wants to stay but honestly cant blame him, hi two highest paid players are hedo and arenas.

truther
11-13-2011, 12:15 PM
If I had a choice between Kobe or James on my team. I choose Kobe. Hes a true leader. He inspires through voice and action. Teammates are inspired by his knack to continue to grow as a player.

Dirk or James. Dirk

Durant or James. James

Its now whose more talented, who has a prettier dribble, who is bigger or faster. I would choose anyone over James, simply because hes no team player. Hes a child in a mans body. A big mans body but thats neither here or there. James is exactly like how Kobe was back in his first 5 seasons, and Jordans first 3 seasons. Except now its James 8th season... hes acting more like Allen Iverson, but at least AI never betrayed his team with a decision to go somewhere else. He never joined a superstar team.

betrayed lol do they own him he honored his contract and left as a FA

truther
11-13-2011, 12:21 PM
Yes its SHOCKING to see a guy of his height handle the ball like he does. Except I dont care how good you look when you play the game. He also has an over abundance of traveling calls (whether it was called or not).

OH And I forgot about the other things that pissed me off about LeBron.
1) I forgot about the rock concert they held for JUST the three "superstars" On miami. And how he basically said he will win more with them than Jordan did with the Bulls. Basically Implied but not directly said

2) In the finals (Every game). I watched closely, but replayed would show how Lebron would complain at every call. Even when it was plain and clear a foul on LeBron. And Complain even more when he was stuffed and he was wondering why there was no call. YOu are the player! Have a sense of honesty my god, its one thing to do it here and there but the entire series? The world stage, grow up.

this was by far worst post ive seen and it clearly shows your agenda, almost EVERYONE complains about calls have you not seen kobe do it. im sorry but have you ever even played a basketball game, when the emotions are running high you feel like your always right even if you're wrong complaining softens the refs up.

Supreme LA
11-13-2011, 06:51 PM
lebron didn't develop a jumper and most confusingly you think theres something wrong with his ball handling at his size the way he handles the ball is phenominal.

Hakeem had a better handle and better footwork by a mile. Hakeem was a center!! Lebron's ball handle is suspect and his footwork is the sloppiest and most ineffective I've seen from any star player. Magic was about Lebron's size but not blessed with anything near Lebron's athleticism, yet Magic had an amazing ball handle that you knew came from tons of handwork and practice. Lebron's height is no excuse. You either develop it or you don't. It seems he doesn't put in the work so he won't.

truther
11-13-2011, 07:37 PM
Hakeem had a better handle and better footwork by a mile. Hakeem was a center!! Lebron's ball handle is suspect and his footwork is the sloppiest and most ineffective I've seen from any star player. Magic was about Lebron's size but not blessed with anything near Lebron's athleticism, yet Magic had an amazing ball handle that you knew came from tons of handwork and practice. Lebron's height is no excuse. You either develop it or you don't. It seems he doesn't put in the work so he won't.

lebrons ball hanlding isn't suspect its better than some guards did you ever watch lebron handle a ball. lebron has been playing pg/point forward almost his whole life ball handling has always been a premium skill for him. magic and lebron ball handling are very comparable.

wasn't talking about foot work don't know why you're bringing that up.

magic0320
11-13-2011, 08:52 PM
lebrons ball hanlding isn't suspect its better than some guards did you ever watch lebron handle a ball. lebron has been playing pg/point forward almost his whole life ball handling has always been a premium skill for him. magic and lebron ball handling are very comparable.

wasn't talking about foot work don't know why you're bringing that up.

don't insult magic. lebron is talented:facepalm: but no where near magic's ball handling.

truther
11-13-2011, 08:58 PM
don't insult magic. lebron is talented:facepalm: but no where near magic's ball handling.

how is it an insult you're so ricicoulous.

koberulesall
11-13-2011, 09:37 PM
Kobe is just better thats all there is to it...lebrick sucks d**k

mlisica19
11-13-2011, 10:18 PM
if they did brought him in to play the down low game he sure as hell isn't doing any of that, what im saying is lebrons offense is predictable so getting easy baskets in the post would be huge especially with his passing skills he could pass out of the double team to open team mates.

nba analyst would not agree with you assesment of lebron being a avg shooter, he is second behind ray allen in mid range shots % among swing men who play 35 min per game,ahead of durant,melo,wade,.

kobe does not take a heck of alot more shots he takes 1.2 more shots than lebron.

idk why you care so much if players leave their teams as if they owe something to them they are free agents and its their right to sign anywhere else, dwight has been nothing but loyal he wants to stay but honestly cant blame him, hi two highest paid players are hedo and arenas.

Its how they approached it.

James leaving for a team that just signed two superstars. Homer much? For gods sake, the guy didnt even inform his team until the decision was live on TV.

Dwight Howard tells everyone he has nothing left to do in Orlando.

What ever happened to playing your heart and soul out for your team. Cant blame him? Jordan didnt have the best players on his team, but he demanded better players. He demanded better from himself. And it all paid off in the end.

Its called the eye of the tiger, these guys just dont have it. Leaving and running, going down the path of least resistance rather than the road less traveled. I respect the ones who have a sense of urgency to do the best they can do no matter what they were given.

mlisica19
11-13-2011, 10:21 PM
lebrons ball hanlding isn't suspect its better than some guards did you ever watch lebron handle a ball. lebron has been playing pg/point forward almost his whole life ball handling has always been a premium skill for him. magic and lebron ball handling are very comparable.

wasn't talking about foot work don't know why you're bringing that up.

Except the league you see today allows players to get away with an over abundance of double dribbles and traveling calls so the game stays at a higher entertainment level. LeBron gets away with many calls simply because hes a bigger name, a bigger profit for the league. ESPN did an entire analysis on his crab walk dribble... aka a double dribble.

The guy can have all the skill he wants, he wont gain my respect through that

truther
11-13-2011, 10:31 PM
Except the league you see today allows players to get away with an over abundance of double dribbles and traveling calls so the game stays at a higher entertainment level. LeBron gets away with many calls simply because hes a bigger name, a bigger profit for the league. ESPN did an entire analysis on his crab walk dribble... aka a double dribble.

The guy can have all the skill he wants, he wont gain my respect through that

when lebron travels its more to do with his foot work not dribbling i don't honestly understand where people are getting this suspect ball handling idea from bron

gotoHcarolina52
11-13-2011, 10:38 PM
This thread entertains me

LA_Raiders
11-13-2011, 11:00 PM
Lol, get over it already...

Kobe 5, Lebroom 0

Supreme LA
11-14-2011, 12:22 AM
lebrons ball hanlding isn't suspect its better than some guards did you ever watch lebron handle a ball. lebron has been playing pg/point forward almost his whole life ball handling has always been a premium skill for him. magic and lebron ball handling are very comparable.

wasn't talking about foot work don't know why you're bringing that up.

Lebron's ball handle is better than what guard?? Who!? Please tell me. His ball handle is suspect and he isnt able to get anywhere he wants on the floor like other guards. Lebron has speed and athleticism going for him and that's it. His handle is in no way comparable to Magic and the fact that you even suggested that is just absurd and clearly shows you don't know what haven't a decent or great ball handle entails.

I brought up footwork because that's one of the other main points of his game that he desperately needs to work on. The fact that he hasn't shown any development in that area, just goes to show that all he works on is jumpshooting to which I have given him credit for. He still isn't pure but he can be a consistent set shooter.

zizo
11-14-2011, 12:38 AM
Case Closed: LeBron James Not in Same Class as Kobe Bryant

Define Irony: Scottie Pippen hails LeBron James as the new Jordan when in reality he’s the modern Pippen.

What makes sports great is that the truth is revealed in real time before the eyes of millions. You can have all your muddled arguments for the best to ever play the game. So long as the name James doesn’t come up in the discussion I’m willing to listen.

Let’s get something straight. There will never be another MJ. It’s impossible to duplicate both his accomplishments and importance to the game of basketball. With that being said the man to come closest to climbing to the summit of Mt. Jordan is Kobe Bryant.

Self-proclaimed King James is somewhere near the base of that mountain looking up at the likes of Charles Barkley, Karl Malone and Patrick Ewing. He’s got the game but he doesn’t have the IT – that special something that separates the great talents from the all-time greats.

Kobe is a coldblooded killer unafraid of failure forever chasing the impossible. LeBron James is a beauty queen more consumed with appearance than accomplishment.

Make whatever argument you want but the facts speak for themselves. Your eyes did not deceive you. When the greatest pressure of all fell upon the shoulders of LeBron he crumbled. Then, in typical LeBron fashion, he lashed out at his haters.

Want to know the biggest difference between LeBron and Kobe? Bryant takes the hate to heart. He makes it personal. Kobe takes no pleasure in knowing his haters don’t live the same lifestyle he does as LeBron referred to in his infamous post-Finals presser. Bryant only takes pleasure in apologies – as in Magic Johnson publically apologizing for prematurely anointing James the new king.

Unlike LeBron, Kobe allows his game to do the talking. No need to pound your chest and proclaim your greatness when you’ve got an entire hoops world that will do that dirty work on your behalf once you build a hater-proof resume.
When Shaq asked Kobe how his *** tasted, Bryant responded by getting one more ring than the Diesel. Kobe then took his shot at O’Neal as soon as he could – not a moment before. LeBron does things the opposite way. James is the king of premature adulation.

James calls his shot then scapegoats his poor performances via his apologists who always have creative excuses.
Guess what? The land of LeBron excuses is running out of real estate.
He didn’t have the supporting cast in Cleveland. He doesn’t have a bench in Miami. He was under more pressure than any other athlete.
Cry me a pool atop a South Beach hotel.

Here is something that you cannot excuse. The title was there for the taking. The NBA Finals were begging for LeBron to put his stamp of greatness on the game. Problem was when Queen James dug in his pocket he realized his stamp pad was all out of ink. Ink he wasted on tasteless free agency announcements. Ink he wasted on pointless WWE style introductions. Ink he wasted in celebrating a victory over an aging and injured Celtics squad.
This is professional hoops where championship opportunities are few and far between. Nothing is promised. Kobe knows this all too well. Bryant was determined to learn this lesson the hard way by trying to go at it all by himself. Lesson learned.

It’s not that Bryant is above making some of the same mistakes LeBron continues to make. It’s that Bryant learns from those miscues and moves on by constantly tweaking his game and obsessively mastering his craft.
As for LeBron, he’s all too happy to get by on his talents alone. The true measure of a great player is how their game develops once their physical skills diminish. Jordan’s prime didn’t come until he was no longer able to simply jump over his competition. He had to outthink his opponents.

Where does that leave LeBron if he can’t find the courage to attack the hoop in crunch time when he’s the biggest, strongest and fastest man in the game? Just how is King James going to win all those rings he promised when he’s no longer able to blow by defenders with ease?

If this is LeBron’s prime then I’m afraid we’ve seen all that is needed to determine his place in history.
He’s Robin with delusions of being Batman. However LeBron’s delusion is the worst kind of all.

There are plenty of guys out there that would have gone down in a John Starks-like blaze of glory. Gunning as if they were the best to ever play the game. Unafraid of taking big shots even if they were never meant to do so. Guys like Sam Cassel and Robert Horry who never knew they weren’t supposed to be stealing the show from their more marketable counterparts. You know, like when a skinny rookie fresh out of high school was shooting air balls for the Lakers in the playoffs. Obviously those shots didn’t fall but it certainly alerted the world to what kind of stones the youngster had.
James in not this type at all.

James wants rings but is unwilling to grab the moment by the horns. He wants to be a global icon but can’t be bothered by taking part in a dunk competition. Quite frankly, LeBron wants to get into heaven but is afraid of death.

LeBron lives in a world dominated by fear. He’s afraid of the spotlight even though his inner Favre craves it. He’s scared of public humiliation even though he’s constantly putting himself out there.

Simply put, he’s not in the same class as Kobe Bryant and he never will be because Kobe lives for the pressure moments. If it were up to him Bryant would play Game 7’s all year long.
Let’s just put this to bed now.

Like those that are constantly apologizing for him, LeBron is guilty of not knowing his place. When Muhammad Ali ran his mouth he was hated. When he backed up his smack by delivering results he was loved. Talk is cheap. Actions speak louder than decisions made in primetime. James somehow thinks his place in history is guaranteed. Problem is he doesn’t realize it could be a spot in the Hall of Infamy that is currently on hold for him.
From here out, let’s keep LeBron out of the Kobe and MJ conversation. He’s in no position to be in the greatest to ever play discussion. Instead, let’s just focus on what his resume dictates. That LeBron could go down as the greatest to never win a ring


- AUTHOR: Chris Shellcroft

JordansBulls
11-14-2011, 01:56 PM
Lol, get over it already...

Kobe 5, Lebroom 0

This is true, but remember before Kobe went to the Lakers the Lakers had already won 11 titles and been in 24 finals while the Cavs had 0 titles and 0 finals appearances. Now had Lebron been in Boston instead that would be a different story.

beliges
11-14-2011, 02:02 PM
This is true, but remember before Kobe went to the Lakers the Lakers had already won 11 titles and been in 24 finals while the Cavs had 0 titles and 0 finals appearances. Now had Lebron been in Boston instead that would be a different story.

One must also remember that the Lakers dont win titles just because they are the Lakers. They win because they always have the best players. Magic didnt win because he played for the Lakers. The Lakers won because they had Magic and Kareem and Worthy. Similarly Kobe didnt win because he was a Laker. The Lakers won because he had Kobe. I dont think it makes much of a difference where a player plays because the very best players will find ways to win. Lebron could have been on any team and if he played the way he has played in the Finals so far, he would still not have won anything.

Tony_Starks
11-14-2011, 02:29 PM
I wish people would just acknowledge individual greatness and quit the comparisons. Lebron shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Kobe. Kobe is a proven multiple champion and proven unstoppable scorer in his prime. He's in the history books, Lebron has to catch up......