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View Full Version : Did MJ just destroy his own franchise?



Bornknick73
11-10-2011, 10:34 PM
It is now well known that MJ is one of the hardest of hardliners in the owners group and has demanded David Stern go the 53-47% route with the players as well as the flex cap proposals.

A lot of players have spoken out against him and have called him a sell out. He has spurned a union of players of which he was once apart of. The same man who once told the owner of the Wizards, the late Abe Polian, something along the lines of... "If you dont know how to make a profit then sell your team" Now hes wearing the shoes of the owner crying broke and looking to shaft his own fraternity of players.

While MJ is now a owner he was a revered and iconic legend in the eyes of the modern day players. Does this make the sting of his betrayal hurt more because of who he is? Because at one point he was one of them.

Will any high profile player ever sign in Charlotte? Did Jordan just sabotage his own franchise by alienating the same group of players who at one time idolized him?

ink
11-10-2011, 10:41 PM
It'll blow over and people won't be so extreme when the lockout ends and people get back to work.

I'm not so sure we need another MJ thread though.

Any other mods want to weigh in on this one?

Bruno
11-10-2011, 10:47 PM
^Maybe bump it to the Bobcats forum?

sixer04fan
11-10-2011, 10:55 PM
Just had a thread about this... Question was if players will hold a grudge against the hardline owners. I believe that the majority opinion was: No, they will not.

beasted86
11-10-2011, 11:00 PM
Players won't hold a grudge against Jordan.

The premier players just won't go to the Bobcats because they have been a poorly run franchise under Jordan in general.

king4day
11-10-2011, 11:24 PM
Wouldn't this make players WANT to play in Charlotte? For the owner who defied all other owners?

EDIT: Nevermind. I thought the OP was indicating he was 53-47 in favor of the players.

McPeak92
11-10-2011, 11:44 PM
Players forget when they see "$$$$$"

Stuckey#3
11-11-2011, 12:17 AM
Michael Jordan = GOAT player
Michael Jordan = Terrible GM and Owner...

The same confidence and uncompromising behavior that made him the best player in the league is going to rip his franchise a part.

smith&wesson
11-11-2011, 12:30 AM
it wont be a bigger issue then it already is. last time i checked players were in line to become bobcats.

Afridi786
11-11-2011, 01:14 AM
Not like anyone was ever going to go to the Bobcats anyway, love how the players want MJ on their side when he's an owner who's losing money, dumb mofos.

LA_Raiders
11-11-2011, 01:45 AM
He is fighting for whats best for his team. Cant blame him. players are doing the same...

drew_ellis_23
11-11-2011, 02:16 AM
it wont be a bigger issue then it already is. last time i checked players were in line to become bobcats.

:rolleyes:

DerekRE_3
11-11-2011, 03:16 AM
It's not like MJ let a child rapist keep raping. He'll be fine.

John Walls Era
11-11-2011, 03:40 AM
MJ being a terrible GM aside, I see nothing out of the ordinary from MJ. Hes always been about himself.

utl768
11-11-2011, 04:18 AM
def imo

abe_froman
11-11-2011, 04:22 AM
yeah,def...but but with his decision making when drafting its not like he wasnt going to anyways

effen5
11-11-2011, 10:35 AM
Not sure exactly how hes a sell out....is it because hes not siding with the players?

MJ has always sided with his peers....as a player he would have sided with the players....as a owner, he is siding with his peers which are now the owners.

Every NBA player would do the same thing if they became an owner.

SteBO
11-11-2011, 10:43 AM
MJ is an awful owner. That's obvious, but if nobody wants to go to CHA it's because of just that, not what side he is on during this joke of a labor dispute.

THE MTL
11-11-2011, 11:45 AM
MJ being a terrible GM aside, I see nothing out of the ordinary from MJ. Hes always been about himself.

this.

THE MTL
11-11-2011, 11:45 AM
MJ is an awful owner. That's obvious, but if nobody wants to go to CHA it's because of just that, not what side he is on during this joke of a labor dispute.

this too.

Slug3
11-11-2011, 12:16 PM
I don't think is stance on the CBA is going to keep players from joining the Bobcats. I do think it's his terrible management of the team that will keep them from signing with them.

Chronz
11-11-2011, 12:21 PM
I sincerely hope the FA avoid all those owners or at the very least refuse to play without a giant payload.

Tony_Starks
11-11-2011, 02:20 PM
Jordan is going to run the Bobcats into the ground regardless but all he did was give players yet another incentive to want nothing to do with his team.

But I could actually see guys like Wade and CP3, who have been very involved in this "bargaining" and sat across the table from him, walk away from his brand and encourage other stars to do the same. Its like ok if his stance is he's an owner now its all about profit thats fine, but I don't think they'll be as inclined to help promote his products now since he has been a huge proponent of unreasonableness.........

Chronz
11-11-2011, 02:24 PM
Not sure exactly how hes a sell out....is it because hes not siding with the players?

MJ has always sided with his peers....as a player he would have sided with the players....as a owner, he is siding with his peers which are now the owners.

Every NBA player would do the same thing if they became an owner.

Atleast you can say hes consistently greedy

ink
11-11-2011, 02:26 PM
Jordan is going to run the Bobcats into the ground regardless but all he did was give players yet another incentive to want nothing to do with his team.

But I could actually see guys like Wade and CP3, who have been very involved in this "bargaining" and sat across the table from him, walk away from his brand and encourage other stars to do the same. Its like ok if his stance is he's an owner now its all about profit thats fine, but I don't think they'll be as inclined to help promote his products now since he has been a huge proponent of unreasonableness.........

Or maybe he just understood the need for change before they did. The players that take this personally are only going to lose. I HIGHLY doubt Wade or CP3 would walk away from Nike. They only have "principles" when someone is trying to TAKE their money, not when someone is GIVING them money. lol. Nike is in the business of GIVING them money.

That said, I doubt many "superstars" wanted to play for the Bobcats BEFORE the lockout. So how has anything changed?

His shot at a "superstar" will be through the draft. If the team builds around someone great and the team wins, talent will gravitate to the Bobcats and all will be forgotten.

Winning attracts talent. Or at least that's the rationale the players have been trying to use to date. Right?

JordansBulls
11-11-2011, 02:29 PM
Atleast you can say hes consistently greedy

Then tell the players to go back to making 3-5 million a year which is what MJ or Magic made in there prime and peak. With guys like Joe Johnson getting 20 million a year why would owners give in?

ink
11-11-2011, 02:29 PM
Atleast you can say hes consistently greedy

Totally agree with that. One of the major problems with self-centred athletes pampered in a star-driven league.

Tony_Starks
11-11-2011, 02:36 PM
Or maybe he just understood the need for change before they did. The players that take this personally are only going to lose. I HIGHLY doubt Wade or CP3 would walk away from Nike. They only have "principles" when someone is trying to TAKE their money, not when someone is GIVING them money. lol. Nike is in the business of GIVING them money.

That said, I doubt many "superstars" wanted to play for the Bobcats BEFORE the lockout. So how has anything changed?

His shot at a "superstar" will be through the draft. If the team builds around someone great and the team wins, talent will gravitate to the Bobcats and all will be forgotten.

Winning attracts talent. Or at least that's the rationale the players have been trying to use to date. Right?



Im talking about walking away from his brand, i.e. Jordans. Its widely acknowledged that he has been a buffoonish owner/gm so nothing changes there as far as attraction to his team except its probably just worse.

And fyi "Nike" and "Jordans" are two different things. You can endorse Nike shoes and products without being team Jordan. What Im saying is if Im a superstar and can take my pick of endorsements to get paid from, Im taking Jordan off of that list. You seriouly think guys like Wade and CP3 need to endorce Jordan products to get paid? They can easily go to other brands that aren't headed by owners who were instrumental in trying to get their slice of the pie reduced to 47%......

ink
11-11-2011, 02:44 PM
Im talking about walking away from his brand, i.e. Jordans. Its widely acknowledged that he has been a buffoonish owner/gm so nothing changes there as far as attraction to his team except its probably just worse.

And fyi "Nike" and "Jordans" are two different things. You can endorse Nike shoes and products without being team Jordan. What Im saying is if Im a superstar and can take my pick of endorsements to get paid from, Im taking Jordan off of that list. You seriouly think guys like Wade and CP3 need to endorce Jordan products to get paid? They can easily go to other brands that aren't headed by owners who were instrumental in trying to get their slice of the pie reduced to 47%......

I don't think the players actually have principles beyond where they can get money and find the easiest way to win. So I'm sure you're right, they'd happily go get money from someone else rather than actually think through this "betrayal" BS. However, if they actually thought through the "betrayal" BS, and actually paid attention to the fact that the league DID need significant change and Jordan was just one owner who was working for it, then they might not have to throw hissy fits and find another brand.

It's laughable that this is even considered a "principled" concern by these players. Like I've said elsewhere, NBA players have proven in these negotiations that they are not the sharpest knives in the drawer. This is just about finding best business practices, not about BS "betrayals". They need to grow up and understand something other than their own self-interest. Or maybe they're so rich they can just buy their way through life without every having to do that like the rest of the world. It really is that simple. How much enabling do we have to do with these guys? At a certain point you see people like Magic and Bird grow up. When will it happen for today's superstars? Only after they retire?

It's hard to take their "principles" seriously when all they're doing is getting upset over someone else's interests being more important than their interests. Incredibly immature ...

Chronz
11-11-2011, 02:46 PM
Then tell the players to go back to making 3-5 million a year which is what MJ or Magic made in there prime and peak. With guys like Joe Johnson getting 20 million a year why would owners give in?
Why would I tell them that, Im not MJ. I want the players making their money and I want owners to stop caving in and giving max salaries just to keep quasi-stars at home. Unfortunately we dont live in that world.

Tony_Starks
11-11-2011, 02:59 PM
I don't think the players actually have principles beyond where they can get money and find the easiest way to win. So I'm sure you're right, they'd happily go get money from someone else rather than actually think through this "betrayal" BS. However, if they actually thought through the "betrayal" BS, and actually paid attention to the fact that the league DID need significant change and Jordan was just one owner who was working for it, then they might not have to throw hissy fits and find another brand.

It's laughable that this is even considered a "principled" concern by these players. Like I've said elsewhere, NBA players have proven in these negotiations that they are not the sharpest knives in the drawer. This is just about finding best business practices, not about BS "betrayals". They need to grow up and understand something other than their own self-interest. Or maybe they're so rich they can just buy their way through life without every having to do that like the rest of the world. It really is that simple. How much enabling do we have to do with these guys? At a certain point you see people like Magic and Bird grow up. When will it happen for today's superstars? Only after they retire?

It's hard to take their "principles" seriously when all they're doing is getting upset over someone else's interests being more important than their interests. Incredibly immature ...



You think the players are just a bunch of spoiled, greedy, unprincipled, opportunistic nitwits who blow money on bling and need to leave the thinking to the guys in the suits and just concentrate on entertaining us. WE GET IT.

My question is since you obviously hold the players of today is such a low regard in general, why are you still watching the game? Apparently the players of other sports are more intelligent and less greedy, why not just watch them?

justOmazing
11-11-2011, 03:53 PM
All the boneheads on this thread who say that no good players will want to sign with MJ and the Bobcats after this lockout - you are showing your lack of very simple business sense. Supply and demand, one of the most basic of all economic principles, says that some really good ballplayers are going to be looking for a job in the NBA.

...millions of high schoolers around the world dream of it.... tens of thousands of collegiate and foreign players see the NBA as a remote possibility... very few ever truly achieve it, because there are only "X" amount of spots to fill.

You may not like MJ's stance, portrayed through the media, but the fact is... business is business... and we can all pick at MJ and say he isn't doing well. But let's not forgot how many millions more he is making than all of us. And ALL those ballplayers are making their millions too, when this deal is done... no matter what.

Bottom line is, this is a battle of the greedy... not the needy.

ink
11-11-2011, 04:02 PM
You think the players are just a bunch of spoiled, greedy, unprincipled, opportunistic nitwits who blow money on bling and need to leave the thinking to the guys in the suits and just concentrate on entertaining us. WE GET IT.

My question is since you obviously hold the players of today is such a low regard in general, why are you still watching the game? Apparently the players of other sports are more intelligent and less greedy, why not just watch them?

I do. But the GAME I love most is basketball. Obviously you're using hyperbole just like I have been, but I'll own that I don't think much of the phony superstar age we've just exited. The answer to your question is that I'm optimistic that changes can be made to help the next generation of players understand that the game is not all about them. System changes can do a huge amount to help this. All we have to do is see all the downtrodden-feel-sorry-for-yourself-slave-millionaires grandfather their way out of the league. :D

justOmazing
11-11-2011, 04:04 PM
Jordan is going to run the Bobcats into the ground regardless but all he did was give players yet another incentive to want nothing to do with his team.
But I could actually see guys like Wade and CP3, who have been very involved in this "bargaining" and sat across the table from him, walk away from his brand and encourage other stars to do the same. Its like ok if his stance is he's an owner now its all about profit thats fine, but I don't think they'll be as inclined to help promote his products now since he has been a huge proponent of unreasonableness.........

He is? In one year of majority ownership, he has somehow destroyed the franchise that only started 7 years ago? What?

PS. if Wade and CP3 publicly boycotted Jordan, it would be one dumb move. Anyone over 30 who was even remotely a fan of MJ would boycott them right back - and that is a lot of people dude.

Tony_Starks
11-11-2011, 04:18 PM
I do. But the GAME I love most is basketball. Obviously you're using hyperbole just like I have been, but I'll own that I don't think much of the phony superstar age we've just exited. The answer to your question is that I'm optimistic that changes can be made to help the next generation of players understand that the game is not all about them. System changes can do a huge amount to help this. All we have to do is see all the downtrodden-feel-sorry-for-yourself-slave-millionaires grandfather their way out of the league. :D


Fair enough, at least you're open about it. I believe most of the people that tend to side with the owners pretty have much the same sort of view of the players as you. Its a very negative, stereotypical, and cynical view but everyone is entitled to their opinion........

ink
11-11-2011, 07:38 PM
Fair enough, at least you're open about it. I believe most of the people that tend to side with the owners pretty have much the same sort of view of the players as you. Its a very negative, stereotypical, and cynical view but everyone is entitled to their opinion........

Believe me I don't see all the players like that. But ironically the players that are hyped up the most by the NBA ITSELF are often the most ignorant and obnoxious. There is no doubt that there are great people among the players. But the thing about stereotypes is that they come from somewhere and then they get reinforced. Lebron James did nothing for himself or the integrity of the game over the last few years. But his behaviour was preceded by Shaq and Kobe and all the other reality TV that's forced its way onto the scene, replacing a legitimate basketball focus with the cult of the personality. The last 10 years in the league has seen an acceleration of SUPERSTAR HYPE. It's been sickening, both in terms of the low quality of fan comments and fights, and in terms of seeing some really poorly educated people idolized. Of course there are also players like Grant Hill, Tim Duncan, Anthony Parker, Matt Bonner, Kevin Durant, and they are "on the side of the players" but they aren't the ones that are so problematic, they aren't the ones whose disloyalty and lack of dedication to their teammates is such a problem. They aren't the ones who throw their teammates under the bus when the going gets rough. The finger pointing in the NBA is beneath the sport's dignity. Everything that can be done to turn the focus in the league back towards the team should be done.

Sactown
11-11-2011, 07:48 PM
Believe me I don't see all the players like that. But ironically the players that are hyped up the most by the NBA ITSELF are often the most ignorant and obnoxious. There is no doubt that there are great people among the players. But the thing about stereotypes is that they come from somewhere and then they get reinforced. Lebron James did nothing for himself or the integrity of the game over the last few years. But his behaviour was preceded by Shaq and Kobe and all the other reality TV that's forced its way onto the scene, replacing a legitimate basketball focus with the cult of the personality. The last 10 years in the league has seen an acceleration of SUPERSTAR HYPE. It's been sickening, both in terms of the low quality of fan comments and fights, and in terms of seeing some really poorly educated people idolized. Of course there are also players like Grant Hill, Tim Duncan, Anthony Parker, Matt Bonner, Kevin Durant, and they are "on the side of the players" but they aren't the ones that are so problematic, they aren't the ones whose disloyalty and lack of dedication to their teammates is such a problem. They aren't the ones who throw their teammates under the bus when the going gets rough. The finger pointing in the NBA is beneath the sport's dignity. Everything that can be done to turn the focus in the league back towards the team should be done.
These traits aren't the face of Basketball, but the traits of the up and coming generation. You don't have to look very far to see these traits in any sport and in any other aspect of life

ink
11-11-2011, 07:56 PM
These traits aren't the face of Basketball, but the traits of the up and coming generation. You don't have to look very far to see these traits in any sport and in any other aspect of life

I strongly disagree. All you have to do is look at the determination and class of Ryan Kesler (NHL) as he comes back from injury without a single complaint, or watch Peyton Manning coach his replacement QB from the sidelines while his team suffers through one of the worst seasons in that team's history. Yes, these traits are kinda the face of basketball. Other leagues don't over-hype their superstars and create the unmanageable monsters the NBA does. Remember, I'm looking straight at the league as the root of this problem.

Tony_Starks
11-11-2011, 08:06 PM
These traits aren't the face of Basketball, but the traits of the up and coming generation. You don't have to look very far to see these traits in any sport and in any other aspect of life


Pretty much. I don't see how basketball players have the monopoly on being arrogant or spoiled, you see that in every sport. But sports are a microcosm of society. Guess what we'll never get the classic music of old back, or movies, kids are behaving differently, the media is different, whats considered "respectable news" is different,.....

Thats like me complaining about how messed up hiphop is now. I can complain all I want but Im never getting the 90's Pac, Nas, Big, WuTang, era back so all I can do is pick the best of todays crop and have a coke and a smile.

Tony_Starks
11-11-2011, 08:08 PM
I strongly disagree. All you have to do is look at the determination and class of Ryan Kesler (NHL) as he comes back from injury without a single complaint, or watch Peyton Manning coach his replacement QB from the sidelines while his team suffers through one of the worst seasons in that team's history. Yes, these traits are kinda the face of basketball. Other leagues don't over-hype their superstars and create the unmanageable monsters the NBA does. Remember, I'm looking straight at the league as the root of this problem.


For every example you cite I can cite another of a player thats doing those sports a horrible disservice. I can bring up names like Sean Avery or Big Ben or Michael Vick and say they are the "faces of those franchises." You're speaking in sweeping generalizations, there's good in bad in all leagues.

AIsixersFK
11-11-2011, 08:31 PM
Michael Jordan is the dumbest owner/GM in NBA History. His resume speaks for itself

jericho
11-11-2011, 09:05 PM
He is? In one year of majority ownership, he has somehow destroyed the franchise that only started 7 years ago? What?

PS. if Wade and CP3 publicly boycotted Jordan, it would be one dumb move. Anyone over 30 who was even remotely a fan of MJ would boycott them right back - and that is a lot of people dude.

dude cmon our generation that idiolised jordan is almost over we are being suplanted by the younger kids now they are the ones that make there parents byt the lebrons wades roses pauls melos etc jerseys n shoes they are the future income of the nba not the people over 30s they purchase some of the stuff but just like rome empire everything falls so if cp3 n wade do that they cld make as much money as b4 or even more

ink
11-11-2011, 10:22 PM
For every example you cite I can cite another of a player thats doing those sports a horrible disservice. I can bring up names like Sean Avery or Big Ben or Michael Vick and say they are the "faces of those franchises." You're speaking in sweeping generalizations, there's good in bad in all leagues.

Your examples are the minority in those sports. In the NBA being a jerk is pretty commonplace. Seriously, look at the last decade's stars. Kobe, Shaq, Lebron, AI, Carter, etc. Sorry, but it's true. They're pretty arrogant and they are the biggest names. Then look at the stars from other leagues. In baseball you have a few, in hockey hardly any, in football probably a few more, but nothing at all close to the NBA where most of the biggest names are also the most obnoxious and least team-oriented. As everyone here seems to say, it's a star's league, and with that additional focus, the stars in this league become more arrogant than anywhere else. There's no way you will so commonly find such selfish-minded play and attitude in baseball, hockey, or football. And until basketball is no longer officially a team sport, that will be a major problem with the league.

JasonJohnHorn
11-12-2011, 01:59 AM
If I were a player I wouldnt sign with Charlotte, but that's just because I dont want the guy running my team drafting guys like Adam Morrison and Kwambe Brown, not to mention when he suggested that Joe Wolfe would have been a better draft pick than either Pippen or Grant!

Anywho... I wouldnt want to work for a guy who thought I should be paid less, and when he's giving out contracts, that's what's going to happen. He'll either have to eat his own words, or watch his players sign with other teams.

Raph12
11-12-2011, 02:49 AM
No top player would sign in Charlotte, no offence...

abe_froman
11-12-2011, 03:07 AM
i got this from another board(its not my thoughts)-just found it funny

warning!! conspiracy theory:

ok,a couple years ago mj traded a future first round pick to the bulls.then at the 20th anniversary celebration of the 91 championship,mj said that the bulls were going to win many championships soon.now mj is making demands sure to piss of players and ensure no one will want to play for him(thus ensuring that future pick being very high)...so mj secretly working for the bulls still?

time4change
11-12-2011, 10:26 AM
Just go back and look at some of MJ's statements during the 98 lockout. I am very disappointed in MJ.

B2B
11-13-2011, 12:37 PM
Just go back and look at some of MJ's statements during the 98 lockout. I am very disappointed in MJ.

Dissappointed in what?

MJ seeked his interest as a player & now will seek his interest as an owner, why shouldn't he?. Unless you think he should only be able to seek his interest as a player & not owner?.

Which would fit right into the self entitlement players feel they deserve...

Words can be hollow because people use them to obtain goals, it's the goal of the words that matter. MJ did what he had to to win as a player, he will do what he has to, to win as an owner. To side with the players stance as an owner would be the true hypocricy to his own greed/interest.