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View Full Version : Lockout to be over within the next day?



BuddhaMONK
11-10-2011, 07:05 PM
"Listened to the Checketts interview from @espn700 site. Definitely predicts NBA labor deal "over the next day." ...

... "I think they're going to make sure they've got all of their facts straight. It could happen as soon as 2night. But it's gonna happen."

there's two quotes from Steve Aschburner's twitter

http://twitter.com/#!/AschNBA

RZZZA
11-10-2011, 07:21 PM
the BuddhaMonks in your trunk, turn the bass up
not stories by Aesop, burn the loot up, parties I shoot up

Mr Costanza
11-10-2011, 07:22 PM
Closed yet?

HuRRiCaNeS324
11-10-2011, 07:45 PM
the BuddhaMonks in your trunk, turn the bass up
not stories by Aesop, place your loot up, parties I shoot up

Fixed

GiantsSwaGG
11-10-2011, 07:47 PM
.

RZZZA
11-10-2011, 07:47 PM
thanks, had to work from my (poor) memory

king4day
11-10-2011, 07:53 PM
I don't mind leaving this open since it wasn't a false thread. It's a real possibility.
If another mod thinks otherwise then by all means.

BuddhaMONK
11-10-2011, 08:13 PM
I don't mind leaving this open since it wasn't a false thread. It's a real possibility.
If another mod thinks otherwise then by all means.

exactly, I didn't pull these quotes out of my @$$ like most people....there from a link given on NBA.com

daleja424
11-10-2011, 08:16 PM
I expect this to get done this time. If it doesnt get done this time... the owners are morons.

PleaseBeNice
11-10-2011, 08:19 PM
I expect nothing.

BuddhaMONK
11-10-2011, 08:27 PM
I expect this to get done this time. If it doesnt get done this time... the owners are morons.

well the fact that the players are willing to accept a 50-50 split to me means this things is almost done. That was the main issue..it's been resolved so it shouln't be long.

oak2455
11-10-2011, 08:53 PM
Dave likes his booze:drunk::drunk::drunk::cheers::cheers:

beliges
11-10-2011, 09:03 PM
I expect this to get done this time. If it doesnt get done this time... the owners are morons.

The owners have been the ones pushing for a deal to get done. Its been the players that have been reluctant to negotiate in good faith or accept any fair deal. But now, just as I suspected, as paychecks are being missed, the players are more desperate to get a deal done and will give in to the terms of the owners, which are more than fair.

ewmania
11-10-2011, 09:17 PM
The owners have been the ones pushing for a deal to get done. Its been the players that have been reluctant to negotiate in good faith or accept any fair deal. But now, just as I suspected, as paychecks are being missed, the players are more desperate to get a deal done and will give in to the terms of the owners, which are more than fair.

lol its fair for a player to not have the freedom to go where ever he wanna go?

beliges
11-10-2011, 09:31 PM
lol its fair for a player to not have the freedom to go where ever he wanna go?

How are the players restricted from moving where they want to go? Players sign contracts and as such are bound to the terms of the contract for how many year the contract states. Outside of this understandable restriction, players are free to sign with whatever team they want, so long as the team wants to sign them. From my understanding, there is nothing that restricts players from going where they want.

ink
11-10-2011, 09:32 PM
lol its fair for a player to not have the freedom to go where ever he wanna go?

They're free to go to another league if they like it better there. Actually Europe has some great sights. ;)

daleja424
11-10-2011, 09:33 PM
How are the players restricted from moving where they want to go? Players sign contracts and as such are bound to the terms of the contract for how many year the contract states. Outside of this understandable restriction, players are free to sign with whatever team they want, so long as the team wants to sign them. From my understanding, there is nothing that restricts players from going where they want.

Then you don't understand these negotiations very well.

daleja424
11-10-2011, 09:33 PM
The owners have been the ones pushing for a deal to get done. Its been the players that have been reluctant to negotiate in good faith or accept any fair deal. But now, just as I suspected, as paychecks are being missed, the players are more desperate to get a deal done and will give in to the terms of the owners, which are more than fair.

You cannot possibly be any more wrong than you are in this post IMO.

ink
11-10-2011, 09:35 PM
How are the players restricted from moving where they want to go? Players sign contracts and as such are bound to the terms of the contract for how many year the contract states. Outside of this understandable restriction, players are free to sign with whatever team they want, so long as the team wants to sign them. From my understanding, there is nothing that restricts players from going where they want.

In the proposed deal the exceptions that used to allow mobility would be closed to teams in the luxury tax. I strongly agree with those limitations. That loophole absolutely needed to be closed in order to improve competition across the league. Otherwise they're free to go anywhere they like.

ink
11-10-2011, 09:37 PM
You cannot possibly be any more wrong than you are in this post IMO.

I'm sure you acknowledge that's a completely subjective comment.

From a player's POV you might have a point. But from an owner's POV I don't see how they haven't been fair. And from this fan's POV, who wants to see a more competitive league without super teams or perennial over-spenders, they have been very fair. It's their league.

ewmania
11-10-2011, 09:37 PM
They're free to go to another league if they like it better there. Actually Europe has some great sights. ;)

oh my mistake lol they can go to big market teams as long as they take a paycut and dwayne wade doesn't play there also lol

ink
11-10-2011, 09:39 PM
oh my mistake lol they can go to big market teams as long as they take a paycut and dwayne wade doesn't play there also lol

This deal is a lot bigger than who has gone where in the last year or so. And yes, if they are so desperate to play in a big market, take the pay cut if the team doesn't have the cap space. Pretty simple. btw, there are big markets in Europe.

beliges
11-10-2011, 09:40 PM
You cannot possibly be any more wrong than you are in this post IMO.

Ok. You might feel that the players deserve more money than the owners but I hold the belief that the ones that are risking all the capital deserve the significant portion of the profits. I believe I am completely right and the players new reports of the players' willingness to give in and accept these terms gives strength to my belief. The players in no way shape or form deserve anything close to 50% of all the basketball revenue generated by the NBA. They have risked nothing of their own to deserve such a high amount of the profits. It has been the players' unwillingness to accept a deal close to 50/50 that has caused this lockout to drag out for such a long time. You may have a different opinion on this issue and you are entitled to it, but I would have to disagree completely with you.

beliges
11-10-2011, 09:43 PM
In the proposed deal the exceptions that used to allow mobility would be closed to teams in the luxury tax. I strongly agree with those limitations. That loophole absolutely needed to be closed in order to improve competition across the league. Otherwise they're free to go anywhere they like.

I understand these aspects but I still dont see how players are restricted in where they want to play. While the new deal makes it more difficult for player movement by giving the owners more of a penalty to sign certain players, it does not exactly restrict players from playing where they want to go. There needs to be some sort of control method in a sport with salary cap. Players are free to go to whichever team wants to pay them after their contract is up. There is nothing wrong with this restriction and I dont think it restricts players from going anywhere.

beliges
11-10-2011, 09:44 PM
Then you don't understand these negotiations very well.

Please enlighten me on how this new deal restricts a players freedom to play where they want.

daleja424
11-10-2011, 09:46 PM
I'm sure you acknowledge that's a completely subjective comment.

From a player's POV you might have a point. But from an owner's POV I don't see how they haven't been fair. And from this fan's POV, who wants to see a more competitive league without super teams or perennial over-spenders, they have been very fair. It's their league.
It is subjective... but it is an opinion shared by every single person who covers the NBA. I have literally not heard a single person side with the owners since the players moved to 50-50.


Ok. You might feel that the players deserve more money than the owners but I hold the belief that the ones that are risking all the capital deserve the significant portion of the profits. I believe I am completely right and the players new reports of the players' willingness to give in and accept these terms gives strength to my belief. The players in no way shape or form deserve anything close to 50% of all the basketball revenue generated by the NBA. They have risked nothing of their own to deserve such a high amount of the profits. It has been the players' unwillingness to accept a deal close to 50/50 that has caused this lockout to drag out for such a long time. You may have a different opinion on this issue and you are entitled to it, but I would have to disagree completely with you.
The players have agreed to a 12.5% pay cut, and have asked in return that they league make a couple concessions on MINOR system issues. Thus far, the league has refused. The league has issued ultimatums and threats instead of negotiating. The fact that you think it is the players are the ones who are not negotiating, after they have given in on nearly every single issue, is actually pretty insulting.

beasted86
11-10-2011, 09:46 PM
You cannot possibly be any more wrong than you are in this post IMO.

^This.


Do some research on how the givebacks that players have already conceded in this CBA negotiation are historic in sports.

ewmania
11-10-2011, 09:47 PM
This deal is a lot bigger than who has gone where in the last year or so. And yes, if they are so desperate to play in a big market, take the pay cut if the team doesn't have the cap space. Pretty simple. btw, there are big markets in Europe.

but how is that fair tho... " HEY NBA PLAYER, GET TONS OF MONEY AS LONG AS ITS THE TRAILBLAZERS!"

daleja424
11-10-2011, 09:47 PM
Please enlighten me on how this new deal restricts a players freedom to play where they want.

heavier tax
revenue sharing cliff
no s/t for tax teams
limited exceptions for tax teams
and more


all of those things are designed to limit player movement. Every single one.

beliges
11-10-2011, 09:53 PM
It is subjective... but it is an opinion shared by every single person who covers the NBA. I have literally not heard a single person side with the owners since the players moved to 50-50.


The players have agreed to a 12.5% pay cut, and have asked in return that they league make a couple concessions on MINOR system issues. Thus far, the league has refused. The league has issued ultimatums and threats instead of negotiating. The fact that you think it is the players are the ones who are not negotiating, after they have given in on nearly every single issue, is actually pretty insulting.

The players have agreed to a pay cut of about 7% not 12.5%. However, the players are not the owners and the owners get to decide how much they want to pay the players, not the players deciding their own income. This is the case with every single business in this country. Thats how life works. The league has consistently offered 50% of all the revenue to the players, more than what I think they deserve so they have been more than fair in these negotiations. It has been the players that have refused to accept these terms and have asked for more and more money. The players have given in on every single issue because they are the employees, not the employers. If the players were trully not happy with the process, they are more than free to go play elsewhere. But they know they cannot achieve nearly the same amount of money or notoriety than they can in the NBA. The owners are going to win because they are the owners. They are the ones that have invested all the money and they are the ones who are taking all the risks. Its very clear and it makes sense.

beliges
11-10-2011, 09:56 PM
heavier tax
revenue sharing cliff
no s/t for tax teams
limited exceptions for tax teams
and more


all of those things are designed to limit player movement. Every single one.

All of these are things which penalizes teams for going over the cap. None of these are restrictions on player movements. Again, how are players restricted and disallowed from going where they want to go after they are no longer bound to a legal contract. This is a league with a salary cap and if a team goes over the cap they will be penalized. But you are still yet to show exactly how players are restricted from going where they want to go. If a team wants to attain a player, they will pay whatever tax they have to in order to sign that player. There is no restriction.

ewmania
11-10-2011, 09:57 PM
heavier tax
revenue sharing cliff
no s/t for tax teams
limited exceptions for tax teams
and more


all of those things are designed to limit player movement. Every single one.

exactly

they trying to put a stop to the big 3 MIA thingy that took place in 2010.

smh all this because a guy who didnt even win a ring had the power to choose his destiny

but yet they trade off players like items every seasons out of players control

billups was forced to leave denver
Big Z spent his whole career in cleveland but when the owner just took him off like yesterdays trash nobody said a word... but yet they get mad at lebron for doing exactly what owners have been doing to players since the beginning of time

ink
11-10-2011, 09:58 PM
It is subjective... but it is an opinion shared by every single person who covers the NBA. I have literally not heard a single person side with the owners since the players moved to 50-50.

That's because almost every damned NBA writer in the world was telling the players to move in that direction in the first place! lol.


The players have agreed to a 12.5% pay cut, and have asked in return that they league make a couple concessions on MINOR system issues. Thus far, the league has refused. The league has issued ultimatums and threats instead of negotiating. The fact that you think it is the players are the ones who are not negotiating, after they have given in on nearly every single issue, is actually pretty insulting.

I didn't say they weren't negotiating, I agreed that the owners had been fair from the perspective of a fan who wants to see systemic change. I actually think the owners compromised too much already because there are going to be loopholes that make some of the new innovations fairly vulnerable to agents.


but how is that fair tho... " HEY NBA PLAYER, GET TONS OF MONEY AS LONG AS ITS THE TRAILBLAZERS!"

Why not? No reason for the hate for small market teams. It's silly to take sides like this. The league INCLUDES 30 teams, it should work for all 30 of those teams.


heavier tax
revenue sharing cliff
no s/t for tax teams
limited exceptions for tax teams
and more

all of those things are designed to limit player movement. Every single one.

I agree with that to a degree. They only limit player movement to teams in the luxury tax. Basically they are punishing the practice of going over the cap, the abuse of the system that was happening for years. Those are very good innovations. I just hope they are enough. But to any team that manages itself well in the new system, there will be opportunities for players to move. The Red Wings in the NHL were always big spenders before the cap and are still a powerhouse because they are managed extremely well and they have a way of producing and developing talent, bringing in great FAs, and working within a budget. That's effective management, and the players that want to play there are generally able to.

The thing that people forget is that in a fairer system, the small market teams will be able to compete better. Having a more competitive team means more winning. More winning is attractive to top players. This is exactly how the NHL cap has succeeded.

If players want to win as much as they claim to, having more competitive teams means more opportunity for players, more choices. It's a win-win. We don't need to see everything through the narrow lens of today's league experience.

ink
11-10-2011, 10:05 PM
All of these are things which penalizes teams for going over the cap. None of these are restrictions on player movements. Again, how are players restricted and disallowed from going where they want to go after they are no longer bound to a legal contract. This is a league with a salary cap and if a team goes over the cap they will be penalized. But you are still yet to show exactly how players are restricted from going where they want to go. If a team wants to attain a player, they will pay whatever tax they have to in order to sign that player. There is no restriction.

If they're into luxury tax they can't use the S&T or MLE for example. Those options aren't available to those teams.

I agree that players have no restrictions, but the restrictions on big spenders essentially limit the players' options. I think this is a very good thing, but it is a limitation on movement. It should be noted that EVERY league has some sort of limitation. The reason for these particular limitations in the NBA is that agents have been very clever at forcing open loopholes to exploit, loopholes that go against the spirit of working within a budget and making competition fair among all 30 teams.

beliges
11-10-2011, 10:14 PM
If they're into luxury tax they can't use the S&T or MLE for example. Those options aren't available to those teams.

I agree that players have no restrictions, but the restrictions on big spenders essentially limit the players' options. I think this is a very good thing, but it is a limitation on movement. It should be noted that EVERY league has some sort of limitation. The reason for these particular limitations in the NBA is that agents have been very clever at forcing open loopholes to exploit, loopholes that go against the spirit of working within a budget and making competition fair among all 30 teams.

Agreed. These are not restrictions on player movements but rather they are rules set in place to enforce and respect the salary cap. I dont get how someone can argue that this new deal restricts players' movements when there is nothing in this deal that does as such. Furthermore, just like the last 10 seasons, if a team is willing to go over the salary cap and be subject to the luxury tax to sign a player, they will.