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JordansBulls
11-09-2011, 01:20 PM
As you know on Mount Rushmore in the United States there are 4 presidents: Washington, Lincoln, Jefferson and Teddy Roosevelt.


Now if there was a same thing for the NBA who would be the 4.

IMO it has to be: Russell, Magic, Bird and Jordan

I'm listing them in the order they came into the league.


Russell laid the groundwork for the league. Magic and Bird go hand in hand for helping save the league and Jordan raised it to a new level in popularity.

Ebbs
11-09-2011, 01:22 PM
Since it was built in 1934 I guess no one would be on it :P

But in all seriousness it's really tough to break it into 4 players.

I would swap Wilt and Russel.

Wilt, Magic, Bird, Jordan

RekeHavoc
11-09-2011, 01:29 PM
Russell, MJ,MJ,Bird, Shaq,kareem

rapjuicer06
11-09-2011, 01:35 PM
Wilt, MJ, Bird, Magic

beasted86
11-09-2011, 01:37 PM
I think Dr. J revolutionized certain aspects of the game and would need to be on there even if he isn't in the top 10 players all time.

DasBoot
11-09-2011, 01:44 PM
Why does Jerry West get NO love? NONE?!!?!?!?

Jordan, West, Wilt, Bird

He was a player built for today's game in yesterdays time.

PhillyFaninLA
11-09-2011, 01:57 PM
Far left Magic....Far right Michael Jordan, next to Magic is Wilt, next to Wilt and Jordan is Russell.

JordansBulls
11-09-2011, 01:59 PM
I think Dr. J revolutionized certain aspects of the game and would need to be on there even if he isn't in the top 10 players all time.

I would say so, however in the 70's with Kareem and Dr J in it the league was going downhill and nearly bankrupt. So really they didn't keep the game going as much as the other guys did.

Hawkeye15
11-09-2011, 01:59 PM
As you know on Mount Rushmore in the United States there are 4 presidents: Washington, Lincoln, Jefferson and Teddy Roosevelt.


Now if there was a same thing for the NBA who would be the 4.

IMO it has to be: Russell, Magic, Bird and Jordan

I'm listing them in the order they came into the league.


Russell laid the groundwork for the league. Magic and Bird go hand in hand for helping save the league and Jordan raised it to a new level in popularity.

those are my 4 as well

nickdymez
11-09-2011, 02:01 PM
Why Bird though?

Wilt, Dr. J, Jordan, Magic

JordansBulls
11-09-2011, 02:06 PM
Why Bird though?

Wilt, Dr. J, Jordan, Magic

Bird and Magic are generally linked together for the era for saving basketball in general. You can say one was greater than the other but for the league both had equal impacts for helping save it.

Hellcrooner
11-09-2011, 02:08 PM
Mikan, Wilt, Halfaced magic Half faced bird, Jordan

Hawkeye15
11-09-2011, 02:09 PM
Why Bird though?

Wilt, Dr. J, Jordan, Magic

then why Magic? As JB said, they honestly helped save the NBA when it was floundering.

Hawkeye15
11-09-2011, 02:09 PM
Mikan, Wilt, Halfaced magic Half faced bird, Jordan

haha, that may be the best idea so far.

Sadds The Gr8
11-09-2011, 02:11 PM
Russell, Magic, Bird and Jordan



this

Magic and Bird half-faced is a good idea, then I'd add Wilt.

Law25
11-09-2011, 02:12 PM
Dont forget the ABA greats that changed the game like Dr.J. Before that blending of leagues the ABA was where the excitment was and after is was you see today

Greet
11-09-2011, 02:23 PM
Kidd, Carter, Jefferson and Kenyon

Da Knicks
11-09-2011, 02:29 PM
Monte Ellis, Mike James, Sam Cassel, Darren Collison hopefully it doesnt get confused with a landing spot for ufos.

RekeHavoc
11-09-2011, 02:30 PM
Monte Ellis, Mike James, Sam Cassel, Darren Collison hopefully it doesnt get confused with a landing spot for ufos.

do you ever have anything significant or valuable to add to any discussion? really? why do you post?

post something of value, of substance, dont be a troll

specialiststeve
11-09-2011, 02:31 PM
Wilt - who had to have the rules changed because of his presence.
Magic - as much as I loved Bird Majic WAS the face of the NBA's resurgence.
Micheal - could not stand him and his own set of rules but again changed the landscape of the NBA
Russell - Complete Class and should be what the NBA is about.

LongIslandIcedZ
11-09-2011, 02:35 PM
do you ever have anything significant or valuable to add to any discussion? really? why do you post?

post something of value, of substance, dont be a troll

Pot meet Kettle

I like the idea of Jordan, Half of Magic and Bird, Wilt or Russel, Jerry West

Gotta respect the Logo

ttam68
11-09-2011, 02:47 PM
Far left Magic....Far right Michael Jordan, next to Magic is Wilt, next to Wilt and Jordan is Russell.

Seconded.

Jordan
Johnson
Russell
Wilt

Honorable mentions Kareem, Bird

ShakeN'Bake
11-09-2011, 02:58 PM
The half thing would look horrible. I agree with JB: Bird, MJ, Magic, Russell

avon_barksdale
11-09-2011, 03:03 PM
red auerbach, wilt, bird, magic

avon_barksdale
11-09-2011, 03:03 PM
my bad i aint see players only

Raps18-19 Champ
11-09-2011, 03:05 PM
I heard of rumours that Lebron is going up on the real Mount Rushmore.

goNYgoNYgo
11-09-2011, 03:08 PM
melo, amare, cp3, and fields

goNYgoNYgo
11-09-2011, 03:09 PM
but foreal, west, jordan, russel, magic/bird

Chronz
11-09-2011, 04:40 PM
I like Croons half faced idea, half faced Wilt/Russ, Half Faced West/Oscar, Half faced Magic/Larry, and Half faced Shaq/Kobe or MJ.

Hawkeye15
11-09-2011, 05:03 PM
you can not leave Michael Jordan off of it.

Sinestro
11-09-2011, 05:04 PM
Magic, Bird, Jordan and Russell

basketfan4life
11-10-2011, 11:16 AM
you can not leave Michael Jordan off of it.

word.

todu82
11-10-2011, 12:10 PM
Wilt, Magic, Jordan, jabbar

beasted86
11-10-2011, 12:17 PM
I would say so, however in the 70's with Kareem and Dr J in it the league was going downhill and nearly bankrupt. So really they didn't keep the game going as much as the other guys did.

Dr. J wasn't even in the NBA for a majority of the 70s. When he did join the NBA's Philadelphia 76ers, they immediately became the top drawing team in attendance.

Heediot
11-10-2011, 12:53 PM
I agree with OP. Russell has done more than Wilt in terms of contribution and development of the game. Magic and Bird got fans watching after fan stagnation. Jordan took it to another level and helped the game go global.

NYKalltheway
11-10-2011, 01:11 PM
George Mikan
Bill Russell
Wilt Chamerlain
Jerry West

(I'm assuming it'd be built around the 70s or something)

bagwell368
11-10-2011, 03:20 PM
Why Bird though?

Wilt, Dr. J, Jordan, Magic

Because Bird was a much better player then Dr. J?

How many times did Wilt get traded for pennies on the dollar? How many times did coaches want him gone? How many times did he sit on the bench then play in a game 7? Wilt undeniably had more talent then Russell, but he was a turd sandwich when it came to playing on a team year in and year out.

bagwell368
11-10-2011, 03:27 PM
Dr. J wasn't even in the NBA for a majority of the 70s. When he did join the NBA's Philadelphia 76ers, they immediately became the top drawing team in attendance.

Bird was a better passer, outside shooter, rebounder, defender vs bigs then Dr. J. I'm probably the only guy here that saw him play in the Cage at UMass. I was very excited by the guy, and always respected him. But he needed the dominant Moses to come in there and win that one title with a better team then then first two Celtic Championship teams.

His stats in the ABA are hugely misleading. From the day he played a game in that league he was the #1 star, and he was protected as such. Bird used to get killed under the boards and rarely was protected.

Sorry.

bagwell368
11-10-2011, 03:30 PM
Wilt - who had to have the rules changed because of his presence.

And got traded for junk several times.


Magic - as much as I loved Bird Majic WAS the face of the NBA's resurgence.

Nonsense. It was a package deal.

Baller1
11-10-2011, 04:46 PM
Baron Davis, James Harden, Dennis Rodman, and Brian Skinner.

Will 2 BE
11-10-2011, 04:59 PM
I say Jordan, Magic, Russel, and i know hes not a player but Dr. Nasmith

GoldDustTwin
11-10-2011, 05:11 PM
And got traded for junk several times.



Nonsense. It was a package deal.

While I agree that Wilt ought not be on this list, Babe Ruth was traded for nothing - it's not a measure what kind of player he was.

Zefflin
11-10-2011, 05:21 PM
Magic, Bird, Jordan and Russell

Plus Kobe and Shaq, and Reggie Miller smoking a reggie miller.

3RDASYSTEM
11-10-2011, 05:30 PM
1.RUSSELL/WILT/ALCINDOR/MIKAN
2.DR.J/MAGIC
3.JORDAN/SHAQ/IVERSON

RUSSELL had the ships while WILT had the stats, ALCINDOR was combo of both so was MIKAN so u cant go wrong

DR.J ABA merger revolution and was AIR DR. before AIR JORDAN,MAGIC helped birth SHOWTIME and had a nice rival in BIRD to make it AMERICAS dream to have a friendly black vs white athlete rivalry

JORDAN became DR.J with more game and SHAQ was a more physically dominant version of THE BIG DIPPER ... and post JORDAN era nobody was more popular and talented and balled tougher than IVERSON who only would get bumped off by KOBE fans cause of the 'ring factor,but as far as impact and actual play its not really close and having the sleeve/headband that many player/fans wear today to the banning of his crossover to the dress code,he was a problem they didnt like but had to embrace it cause he was STERNS height dominating a big mans league

Any 4 head combo of any of those i mentioned could make the cut, but i respect the old school way more because people have no clue wat WILT/RUSSELL/ALCINDOR had to go thru with all this racism to where it is more falsely covered up in todays world,but back then it was full blown on surface in your face

J_M_B
11-10-2011, 05:39 PM
JB and Hawkeye got it right..

Russell, Magic, Bird, Jordan

Honorable mention: Jerry West

tbone2171
11-10-2011, 05:50 PM
Obviously Kobe Bryant, Derek Fisher, Shannon Brown, and Steve Blake

mightybosstone
11-10-2011, 06:37 PM
Bird and Magic are generally linked together for the era for saving basketball in general. You can say one was greater than the other but for the league both had equal impacts for helping save it.

This the argument that made me agree with you. At first, my initial reaction was MJ and Russell and the other two were debatable. But the 80s Celtics and Lakers rivalry was such a huge part of the league's success after it struggled so much in the 70s that it's hard to imagine two other players would have meant more to the league than those two.

You know what would be fun? A Mount Rushmore bracket. You start threads in every team's forum and ask "Who are the four most important players in your team's history?", allowing them to develop a list and then vote for four options. Then after each team has their own Mount Rushmore, a few GMs rank them by conference 1-15 and let voters pick through a traditional bracket with the top seeds getting a first round bye.

Sure, it'll probably still end up being Celtics vs. Lakers, but wouldn't it be interesting to see which four guys those forums pick? Would the Lakers forum take three centers with Wilt, Kareem and Shaq, leaving out Magic, Kobe or West? Would the Celtics forum value current players more than older guys like Hondo, Cousy and McHale?

I think ESPN did something similar a few years ago with states. With the lockout still going on, this would be too fun to NOT do.

LA ASSASSIN
11-10-2011, 06:52 PM
Bill Russell, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, & Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

NYKNYGNYY
11-10-2011, 06:56 PM
west, wilt, jordan, dr.j

NYKNYGNYY
11-10-2011, 07:01 PM
james wade bosh n soon to be eddy curry :laugh:

NYKNYGNYY
11-10-2011, 07:06 PM
jerry west is the logo for the nba idk how hes not on most of these posts

mightybosstone
11-10-2011, 07:13 PM
jerry west is the logo for the nba idk how hes not on most of these posts

Who is the greatest player in NBA history? Jordan
Who is the most successful player in NBA history? Russell
Which player/players meant the most to the league's current success? MJ, Bird and Magic

That's how. Being a logo is great and all, but these guys were far more important to the league when they played than West was. If you hadn't been told that West was the logo, would you know that's who it was? Thousands of players in the league's history could recreate that pose and you could take a silhouette of them and not tell the difference.

C-Style
11-10-2011, 07:19 PM
George Mikan - the 1st superstar, the first champion, the 1st leader, etc...

Bill Russell - greatest leader of all time... 11 rings!

Wilt Chamberlain - showed us what dominance meant.

Jerry West - the logo. Dude had the biggest hard and will to win in history.

ewmania
11-10-2011, 07:30 PM
Why does Jerry West get NO love? NONE?!!?!?!?

Jordan, West, Wilt, Bird

He was a player built for today's game in yesterdays time.

lol no magic johnson?


anyways

wilt, bird, magic, jordan

NYKNYGNYY
11-10-2011, 07:44 PM
Who is the greatest player in NBA history? Jordan
Who is the most successful player in NBA history? Russell
Which player/players meant the most to the league's current success? MJ, Bird and Magic

That's how. Being a logo is great and all, but these guys were far more important to the league when they played than West was. If you hadn't been told that West was the logo, would you know that's who it was? Thousands of players in the league's history could recreate that pose and you could take a silhouette of them and not tell the difference.

i understand completly , but i listen to 660 WFAN and they are always raving how if he played in the leauge today he would be hands down the greatest , when he played there was no 3 pointers or steals recorded he would of broken the record for steals and hes modest wen he says that, they also said he probably would break the record for 3's

NYKNYGNYY
11-10-2011, 07:45 PM
but i also really dont know to much about basketball in the 70s n beyond i was born in 1990 lol

LakersEaglesLA
11-10-2011, 08:01 PM
Who is the greatest player in NBA history? Jordan
Who is the most successful player in NBA history? Russell
Which player/players meant the most to the league's current success? MJ, Bird and Magic

That's how. Being a logo is great and all, but these guys were far more important to the league when they played than West was. If you hadn't been told that West was the logo, would you know that's who it was? Thousands of players in the league's history could recreate that pose and you could take a silhouette of them and not tell the difference.

Why does Jordan get the Greatest player and included in the player that meant the most to the league's current success? Magic and Bird saved the bankrupt league, No nba without them..Also Jordan is not the automatic winner of greatest player ever. I could make a VERY strong case for magic being the Greatest player ever!

bbcmillionaire
11-10-2011, 08:01 PM
Scalabrine needs a statue of liberty with his face on it, book it dan-o

effen5
11-10-2011, 08:58 PM
jordan jordan jordan and jordan

kozelkid
11-10-2011, 09:12 PM
JB and Hawkeye got it right..

Russell, Magic, Bird, Jordan

Honorable mention: Jerry West

My thoughts exactly (including the West part).

bagwell368
11-10-2011, 09:19 PM
While I agree that Wilt ought not be on this list, Babe Ruth was traded for nothing - it's not a measure what kind of player he was.

Babe Ruth was traded for what was then a huge amount of money.

bagwell368
11-10-2011, 09:21 PM
west, wilt, jordan, dr.j

Nothing personal, but clearly the worst "serious" list proposed so far.

West:


You want to list West's record in the Finals? Where is the will to win?

Cowens, Bird, Paul Silas, Sloan, Jordan, Magic - off the top of my head more or as much will as West to win. I saw the guy, admittedly not in his early prime, and this talk of him as a premier defender is crap, not after 1966 he wasn't - and that's the last 40% of his career.

Wilt: Too many flaws, way too many

Dr. J: Inferior to Bird - period

KnicksorBust
11-10-2011, 09:25 PM
Russell-Magic-Bird-Jordan makes sense but it seems wrong to leave Mikan off.

Avenged
11-10-2011, 09:28 PM
I don't know but I'd include West in there somewhere.

beliges
11-10-2011, 09:28 PM
There are no clear cut 4 players in the history of this league that define the NBA. Russel, Magic, Jordan and Bird seems like the best fit as far as the history of the league goes. But thats leaving out a handful of other players that deserve to be there.

bagwell368
11-10-2011, 10:59 PM
Russell-Magic-Bird-Jordan makes sense but it seems wrong to leave Mikan off.

He was voted the greatest basketball player of the first half of the 20th Century, he can be on the pioneer carving down the road.

But the fan base was small and games were played in the North East and North primarily. They had no National TV contracts. Nah.

Hustlenomics
11-10-2011, 11:04 PM
Mike james, scalabrine, rasheed wallace and michael jordan

mrblisterdundee
11-11-2011, 12:50 AM
I think it's Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Michael Jordan.

NYKNYGNYY
11-11-2011, 04:10 AM
Nothing personal, but clearly the worst "serious" list proposed so far.

West:


You want to list West's record in the Finals? Where is the will to win?

Cowens, Bird, Paul Silas, Sloan, Jordan, Magic - off the top of my head more or as much will as West to win. I saw the guy, admittedly not in his early prime, and this talk of him as a premier defender is crap, not after 1966 he wasn't - and that's the last 40% of his career.

Wilt: Too many flaws, way too many

Dr. J: Inferior to Bird - period

well nothing personal but you opinion dosnt matter to me, west is the nba logo for a reason great defender great shooting ability they say if they kept track back then hed have the 3s record nd steals, wilt has the record for most points n rebounds in a game, jordan is just jordan and idk erving was a personal choice

abe_froman
11-11-2011, 04:19 AM
earl lloyd
mikan
russell
mj

bagwell368
11-11-2011, 06:58 AM
west is the nba logo for a reason[/QUOTE}

Yeah because he was one of the greats at the time they made the logo. Great, so? If they made the logo 15 years later forget it.

[QUOTE]great defender great shooting ability they say if they kept track back then hed have the 3s record nd steals, wilt has the record for most points n rebounds in a game, jordan is just jordan and idk erving was a personal choice

I didn't complain about Jordan.

You are repeating what you said already that you got 2nd or 3rd hand on West. The man did not play great defense. Regular season after 1966 he was a turnstile - I know I saw him lots of the times, the Lakers were always a big TV draw, and I even saw him play live twice. He was a great scorer, but did not have 3 point range. He might have developed it, but it was not in evidence then.

West got up for big games, and always worked it against Oscar, but the Celts after Russell retired and before they got good again - mailed it in buddy.

If there 10 guys chosen, sure West gets a slot, but 4? Get off the bus.

Testaverde16
11-11-2011, 08:58 AM
Jordan, Russell, Magic, Kareem

GoldDustTwin
11-11-2011, 11:53 AM
Babe Ruth was traded for what was then a huge amount of money.

Not really.

$125,000 plus $75K worth of bonds translates out to a couple of million in today's dollars. Small change for the greatest who ever played.

My larger point is that to measure a player by whom they are traded for is hardly a measure of their ability, viz: Miguel Cabrera.

Tony_Starks
11-11-2011, 02:25 PM
1.) Kobe
2.) Kobe
3.) Kobe
4.) Kobe!!

Johann
11-11-2011, 02:35 PM
How about four David Stern faces.

JordansBulls
11-11-2011, 03:09 PM
George Mikan - the 1st superstar, the first champion, the 1st leader, etc...

Bill Russell - greatest leader of all time... 11 rings!

Wilt Chamberlain - showed us what dominance meant.

Jerry West - the logo. Dude had the biggest hard and will to win in history.

Sorry no, that is a horrible list. Is Mount Rushmore filled with the first 10 presidents of the US? Hell no. They span over time.

It's either Russell or Wilt, I don't think West belongs on the mount rushmore except honorable mention.

JordansBulls
11-11-2011, 03:11 PM
1.RUSSELL/WILT/ALCINDOR/MIKAN
2.DR.J/MAGIC
3.JORDAN/SHAQ/IVERSON




This indicates you have no idea what Mount Rushmore means. It means 4 players period not 9.

flea
11-11-2011, 03:15 PM
Russell, Dr. J, Magic, Jordan.

MrX27
11-11-2011, 03:27 PM
I would say so, however in the 70's with Kareem and Dr J in it the league was going downhill and nearly bankrupt. So really they didn't keep the game going as much as the other guys did.

That's a wrong comment to put on them.

The NBA didn't have the TV marketing deals that came around when Bird and Magic became the faces of the NBA.

If not for Dr. J, Kareem, and Wilt who kept the league alive mostly through their fan fare, since TV wasn't nearly as big (or integral) as it would be later on, there never would have been an opportunity for Bird or Magic or Jordan to apply their craft, or if they did it would have been on a much smaller scale.

The NBA wasn't saved by Magic and Bird, the NBA was saved by the major stars before Magic and Bird who did enough to keep the NBA afloat long enough for a major TV network deal to be struck. Which in turn gave rise to the 2 golden era faces of basketball, Magic and Bird.

airforceones25
11-11-2011, 03:36 PM
Bill Russel
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Elgin Baylor <---- Created hangtime. Baylor is the reason why basketball is played the way it is today.
Michael Jordan

HM: Oscar Robertson, Len Bias(Yes I know he never played a game but the impact was tremendous)

MrX27
11-11-2011, 03:57 PM
Rushmore for:
relevance= Mikan, Russell, Dr. J, & Jordan
Mikan and Russell's relevance in basketball is without question. Dr. J carried a league on it's back and then when the ABA merged with the NBA, the NBA experienced a popularity boost from youthfulness that considered the NBA (for a while) dull. Magic and Bird were golden age TV stars but MJ brought bball to the world in a way that will never be seen again.

status= Wilt, Magic, Bird, & Jordan
Magic, Bird, and Jordan were all faces of the league at a point, but I defy you to name a bigger star than Wilt during his prime. Over 20,000 women agree.

excitement= Monroe, Kobe, Jordan & Wilkens
Kobe and Jordan, of course, what about the other 2. Earl "the Pearl" Monroe or "Black Jesus" if you will, is arguably known as the greatest 1 on 1 player in NBA history, watch some of his highlights and you'll see why he could not be contained. Dominique Wilkens, what can I say, is there a better nickname than the "Human Highlight Film"? I think not, as the name says it all. Side note: sorry AI, I can't put you over Wilkens.

Toughness: Iverson, Karl Malone, Rodman, Dawkins.
Malone's elbows kept people at a distance. You don't become the best rebounder and an elite level defender without getting down and dirty like Rodman. No one ever messed with "Chocolate Thunder" without repercussions. There might have been stronger, more physically dominant people I could have put over AI, but no one ever played harder and left it on the court the way he did, despite getting dinged up all over the floor.

modern day: Novitsky, Kobe, Shaq & Wade
I know Shaq retired but I'm giving him his props here with this era. Before anyone argues Duncan, it can not be denied that Shaq's personality looms larger off the bball court as well, that gives him the edge.

near future: James, Rose, Durant & Paul
Notice the word future.

ELITE ICONs= Jordan, Magic, Bird & Russell
The epitome of greatness, nuff said.

bagwell368
11-11-2011, 03:58 PM
Not really.

$125,000 plus $75K worth of bonds translates out to a couple of million in today's dollars. Small change for the greatest who ever played.

You are just adjusting for inflation. The value of baseball franchises has changed even more radically then that - you have to factor that in as well.
Then locate any other player that was traded before Ruth for that sort of money.


My larger point is that to measure a player by whom they are traded for is hardly a measure of their ability, viz: Miguel Cabrera.

Your point is fakakta. Cabrera unlike Wilt was not acknowledged as the most talented and dominant player of his time. What Cabrera was dealt for should be judged by what the value of the players was expected to be, not what it became.

And as a side note I disagree that Ruth was the greatest player of all time. There are dozens of players since his time that are much better, they just face much stiffer competition drawn from much larger talent pools - including people of color.

Tony_Starks
11-11-2011, 04:00 PM
Technically AI should be up there since he was pretty much the face of a different generation of players....... ( for good or bad )

bagwell368
11-11-2011, 04:17 PM
The NBA didn't have the TV marketing deals that came around when Bird and Magic became the faces of the NBA.

The NBA was looking to put the awful 70's behind them, they saw the college match-up hoopla of Bird and Magic to be the thing to go for. There wasn't anywhere near the money in the league from TV in 1980 as there was by 1986.


If not for Dr. J, Kareem, and Wilt who kept the league alive mostly through their fan fare, since TV wasn't nearly as big (or integral) as it would be later on, there never would have been an opportunity for Bird or Magic or Jordan to apply their craft, or if they did it would have been on a much smaller scale.

Jabbar was one of more boring great players ever, few flocked to see him - except his hometown fans.

Dr. J didn't get to the NBA until 1976, so he was an appetizer for Bird/Magic, but clearly the best thing in the NBA for those years, but he was eclipsed by Bird in in just a few years.

Wilt caused a lot of lips to flap, but few really loved the guy, he wasn't anywhere near the draw of guys that came later.


The NBA wasn't saved by Magic and Bird, the NBA was saved by the major stars before Magic and Bird who did enough to keep the NBA afloat long enough for a major TV network deal to be struck. Which in turn gave rise to the 2 golden era faces of basketball, Magic and Bird.

The 70's is widely known as a terrible era in NBA history. The ABA was a part of that.

bchissie
11-11-2011, 04:32 PM
LeBron
Kobe
Magic
Shaq

NYKNYGNYY
11-11-2011, 05:06 PM
[QUOTE=NYKNYGNYY;19739229]west is the nba logo for a reason[/QUOTE}

Yeah because he was one of the greats at the time they made the logo. Great, so? If they made the logo 15 years later forget it.



I didn't complain about Jordan.

You are repeating what you said already that you got 2nd or 3rd hand on West. The man did not play great defense. Regular season after 1966 he was a turnstile - I know I saw him lots of the times, the Lakers were always a big TV draw, and I even saw him play live twice. He was a great scorer, but did not have 3 point range. He might have developed it, but it was not in evidence then.

West got up for big games, and always worked it against Oscar, but the Celts after Russell retired and before they got good again - mailed it in buddy.

If there 10 guys chosen, sure West gets a slot, but 4? Get off the bus.


well for you to say mine was the worst serious one is a joke i have seen a few more worse ones, i chose 4 players that are known very well

bagwell368
11-11-2011, 08:40 PM
[QUOTE=bagwell368;19739430]


well for you to say mine was the worst serious one is a joke i have seen a few more worse ones, i chose 4 players that are known very well

Nothing personal dude, just don't like your list. Guys like AI and Scalabrine are not meant to be taken seriously.

MrX27
11-12-2011, 12:15 PM
The NBA was looking to put the awful 70's behind them, they saw the college match-up hoopla of Bird and Magic to be the thing to go for. There wasn't anywhere near the money in the league from TV in 1980 as there was by 1986.
And who kept the league marketable until Magic and Bird was there?

And there wasn't anywhere near the money in the league from TV in 1975 as there was by 1980.
Think about that!

Jabbar was one of more boring great players ever, few flocked to see him - except his hometown fans.
Not exactly true. Jabbar was a must see in high school and college, but his star power dimmed a bit when he played for the Bucks, but rose again when he was with the Lakers.

Dr. J didn't get to the NBA until 1976, so he was an appetizer for Bird/Magic, but clearly the best thing in the NBA for those years, but he was eclipsed by Bird in in just a few years.
That line says it all.
He was the 6 Million Dollar man for a reason.
And remember if not for Dr. J, pittsburgh wouldn't have be saved by the fish.

Wilt caused a lot of lips to flap, but few really loved the guy, he wasn't anywhere near the draw of guys that came later.
That statement is nonsense.
How big did TV endorsements become after Wilt was done playing?
Wilt drew on Wilt being Wilt, even Conan agreed.

The 70's is widely known as a terrible era in NBA history. The ABA was a part of that.

The ABA brought the NBA things that are widely loved as part of the game now, such as playing the game above the rim and the 3 pt line.

In terms of the era the game was played in, well the 50's < 60's < 70's < 80's < 90's.

heyman321
11-12-2011, 12:56 PM
Charles Barkley, Shaq, Marv Albert, and Craig Sager

Hangtime
11-12-2011, 03:27 PM
Without all the lame half-faced ideas I have to agree with JB.

Russell, Magic, Bird and Jordan. Probably the most impactful players to ever play in the NBA and the historical significance they achieved on as well as off the court.

magichatnumber9
11-12-2011, 03:45 PM
Can I just add the only thing Mikan is truly remember for is the drill.

smith&wesson
11-12-2011, 04:02 PM
As you know on Mount Rushmore in the United States there are 4 presidents: Washington, Lincoln, Jefferson and Teddy Roosevelt.


Now if there was a same thing for the NBA who would be the 4.

IMO it has to be: Russell, Magic, Bird and Jordan

I'm listing them in the order they came into the league.


Russell laid the groundwork for the league. Magic and Bird go hand in hand for helping save the league and Jordan raised it to a new level in popularity.

dr j should be one of the four fathers.

if jordan didnt leave the nba to play baseball i would put him in there. but the fact of the matter is jordan robbed NBA fans two years of his greatness. since were talking about the nba, im gonna go ahead and take him out of that list. show loyalty to the game.

in a sence jordan could have 8 ships. but he sacrificed his basketball career to venture out to other sports. or simply couldnt controll his gambling problem in favour of his nba career.

Hangtime
11-12-2011, 04:06 PM
dr j should be one of the four fathers.

if jordan didnt leave the nba to play baseball i would put him in there. but the fact of the matter is jordan robbed NBA fans two years of his greatness.
and since were talking about the nba, im gonna go ahead and take him out of that list. show loyalty to the game.

So because of a one and a half year absence you are going to ignore the rest of Jordan's career like it never happened?

And didn't Dr. J opt to play in the ABA instead of the NBA given his choice?

smith&wesson
11-12-2011, 04:09 PM
So because of a one and a half year absence you are going to ignore the rest of Jordan's career like it never happened?

And didn't Dr. J opt to play in the ABA instead of the NBA given his choice?

well jordan left for 2 seasons. those are 2 seasons he robbed of die hard BASKETBALL fans. infact he may not have had a choice. he may have been forced out of the league because of the invistagations he was going through due to his huge gambling problems.

dr j didnt opt out to go and play ice hockey now did he ?

dr jay played for both leagues. is it his fault he was a player in those times where the aba and nba were options ? bill russle also played for the aba

Hangtime
11-12-2011, 04:24 PM
well dr j didnt opt out to go and play ice hockey now did he ?

dr jay played for both leagues. is it his fault he was a player in those times where the aba and nba were options ? bill russle also played for the aba

Dr.J had options to play in the NBA but would spend his youthful most productive years in another league. How is he more impactful to the NBA when Jordan would spend his entire career there where he would dominate with the exception of leaving for one and a half years due to personal reasons. You seem to hold that against him when they both made a choice not to play in the NBA.

smith&wesson
11-12-2011, 04:40 PM
Dr.J had options to play in the NBA but would spend his youthful most productive years in another league. How is he more impactful to the NBA when Jordan would spend his entire career there where he would dominate with the exception of leaving for one and a half years due to personal reasons. You seem to hold that against him when they both made a choice not to play in the NBA.


dr j was an all star 11 times in the nba. what are you talking about ?

http://www.nba.com/sixers/stories/exclusive_interview_with_julius_erving_110908.html

and lets not get in to why jordan really left the league because if you dont know it may change your perception of him.

Hangtime
11-12-2011, 05:01 PM
dr j was an all star 11 times in the nba. what are you talking about ?

http://www.nba.com/sixers/stories/exclusive_interview_with_julius_erving_110908.html

and lets not get in to why jordan really left the league because if you dont know it may change your perception of him.

I already know Dr.J's NBA career and his great accomplishments while playing there. I also know how great he was in the ABA and the status he held as one of the premiere stars in the 70's. Multiple ABA ships and MVP awards. And I am in no way dissing Dr.J as an all time great player.

But this thread is about the Mount Rushmore of the NBA not basketball in general so that means that much of Dr.J pro career came in another league. Nothing changes that fact. His career and impact in the NBA does not compare with Jordan's who eclipses J in that department with all the accolades,ships, and his legacy to the league itself. Jordan without a doubt dominated a single decade amongst his peers. Jordan would also return at almost 40 and compete against younger players in their prime like Iverson, Pierce, Bryant, Tmac, Carter etc and still manage to hold hid own. Oldest player to score 40 plus points.

If you hold issue with Jordan for leaving then fine, but to me his relevance to the league outweighs his absence of a basketball player who played his greatest part of his career as a pro in the NBA.

iam brett favre
11-12-2011, 05:05 PM
Manu Ginobli, Horace Grant, Penny Hardaway, John Stockton

smith&wesson
11-12-2011, 05:42 PM
I already know Dr.J's NBA career and his great accomplishments while playing there. I also know how great he was in the ABA and the status he held as one of the premiere stars in the 70's. Multiple ABA ships and MVP awards. And I am in no way dissing Dr.J as an all time great player.

But this thread is about the Mount Rushmore of the NBA not basketball in general so that means that much of Dr.J pro career came in another league. Nothing changes that fact. His career and impact in the NBA does not compare with Jordan's who eclipses J in that department with all the accolades,ships, and his legacy to the league itself. Jordan without a doubt dominated a single decade amongst his peers. Jordan would also return at almost 40 and compete against younger players in their prime like Iverson, Pierce, Bryant, Tmac, Carter etc and still manage to hold hid own. Oldest player to score 40 plus points.

If you hold issue with Jordan for leaving then fine, but to me his relevance to the league outweighs his absence of a basketball player who played his greatest part of his career as a pro in the NBA.

what you clearly said was

"Dr.J had options to play in the NBA but would spend his youthful most productive years in another league"

"much of Dr.J pro career came in another league. Nothing changes that fact"

he played in the aba for 5 years and then went on to the nba where played an aditional 11 years and was an allstar all 11 years. how did he spend his most productive years in the aba ? how is it a fact that much of his pro career came in the aba? 11 all star years in the nba>>> 5 years in the aba first and second years being rookie and sophmore seasons for him.

ALSO consider the fact that the aba and nba were merged. if jordan played in the late 60's and 70's how do you know which league he would have played for ?

one thing we do know for sure is that dr j wasnt asked to leave either league due to invistigations of his gambling and he sure as hell didnt leave the aba or the nba to play double aa baseball.

Heediot
11-12-2011, 05:52 PM
Manu Ginobli, Horace Grant, Penny Hardaway, John Stockton

Hoarce Grant and the goggles would look sick on the mountain.

AntiG
11-12-2011, 06:11 PM
red auerbach

this. arguably greatest coach/executive in the history of any sport. He had a hand in building every single Celtics championship title other than the recent one.

smith&wesson
11-12-2011, 06:29 PM
this. arguably greatest coach/executive in the history of any sport. He had a hand in building every single Celtics championship title other than the recent one.

i agree

red is a good option as well but if we mention him we must mention phill jackson as well

Super.
11-12-2011, 06:45 PM
4 different poses of Mike James

Hangtime
11-12-2011, 07:14 PM
what you clearly said was

"Dr.J had options to play in the NBA but would spend his youthful most productive years in another league"

"much of Dr.J pro career came in another league. Nothing changes that fact"

he played in the aba for 5 years and then went on to the nba where played an aditional 11 years and was an allstar all 11 years. how did he spend his most productive years in the aba ? how is it a fact that much of his pro career came in the aba? 11 all star years in the nba>>> 5 years in the aba first and second years being rookie and sophmore seasons for him.

ALSO consider the fact that the aba and nba were merged. if jordan played in the late 60's and 70's how do you know which league he would have played for ?

one thing we do know for sure is that dr j wasnt asked to leave either league due to invistigations of his gambling and he sure as hell didnt leave the aba or the nba to play double aa baseball.

I don't really understand what you are arguing here. Dr. J as an individual basketball player had his best productive years peak wise in the ABA. Statistically in scoring as well as other categories and he would accomplish more winning 2 titles 3 mvp awards, a couple of playoff awards as well as leading the league in scoring multiple times. All this took place in his years in the ABA. We all know he played more seasons in the NBA.......so? Look at what he did in the NBA only and compare that to Jordan and tell me ......honestly....who had the greater NBA career? Who had the greater impact from a historical perspective in the NBA only?

I don't know why in the hell you keep bringing up Jordan's departure from the NBA like it tarnishes his NBA career to the extent that Dr.J leap frogs him. Please explain to me why, if this indeed what you are saying, you seem to think this. And what Jordan would have done in the 60's or 70's is irrelevant, who the hell knows what anyone would have done back then. J dominated the ABA and Jordan dominated the NBA. And seriously, like David Stern and the NBA gave a **** about his gambling when he was the biggest star in the world? C'mon man......

AntiG
11-12-2011, 07:26 PM
i agree

red is a good option as well but if we mention him we must mention phill jackson as well

not necessarily. Jackson was a good player and a great coach and his championship win-loss record obviously has matched Red, but was only a coach of two dynasties built by the work of others (Reiss, West, Kupchak). Auerbach as both a coach and executive, and did a LOT more than Jackson. He built every single one of the Celtics' 16 championship squads from top to bottom until his death.

smith&wesson
11-12-2011, 07:48 PM
not necessarily. Jackson was a good player and a great coach and his championship win-loss record obviously has matched Red, but was only a coach of two dynasties built by the work of others (Reiss, West, Kupchak). Auerbach as both a coach and executive, and did a LOT more than Jackson. He built every single one of the Celtics' 16 championship squads from top to bottom until his death.

i see what your saying. i thought you meant simply in terms of ships because reds got 10. thought phills right up there with red but your right red as an executive and coach did more for his franchise by putting together the teams he had in boston. cant debate that i agree.

smith&wesson
11-12-2011, 08:22 PM
I don't really understand what you are arguing here. Dr. J as an individual basketball player had his best productive years peak wise in the ABA. Statistically in scoring as well as other categories and he would accomplish more winning 2 titles 3 mvp awards, a couple of playoff awards as well as leading the league in scoring multiple times. All this took place in his years in the ABA. We all know he played more seasons in the NBA.......so? Look at what he did in the NBA only and compare that to Jordan and tell me ......honestly....who had the greater NBA career? Who had the greater impact from a historical perspective in the NBA only?

I don't know why in the hell you keep bringing up Jordan's departure from the NBA like it tarnishes his NBA career to the extent that Dr.J leap frogs him. Please explain to me why, if this indeed what you are saying, you seem to think this. And what Jordan would have done in the 60's or 70's is irrelevant, who the hell knows what anyone would have done back then. J dominated the ABA and Jordan dominated the NBA. And seriously, like David Stern and the NBA gave a **** about his gambling when he was the biggest star in the world? C'mon man......

so you dont beleive that the aba is apart of the nba's history ? because it very much is.

you say dr j shouldnt be considered because he chose to play for the aba rather then the nba. so i said how do you know what league jordan would have played for if he was playing in the same era ? its your point and yet you think its erelevant. ;)

im gonna say jordan was obviously the most popular basketball player of all time. but different era's in the game should be considered because guys like dr j are pioneers of the game. he basically invented flashy dunks.

Hangtime
11-12-2011, 08:42 PM
so you dont beleive that the aba is apart of the nba's history ? because it very much is.

you say dr j shouldnt be considered because he chose to play for the aba rather then the nba. so i said how do you know what league jordan would have played for if he was playing in the same era ? its your point and yet you think its erelevant. ;)

now before jb gets in here and rips me a new, im gonna say jordan was obviously the most popular basketball player of all time. but different era's in the game should be considered because guys like dr j are pioneers of the game. he basically invented flashy dunks.

Dr. J was one of many pioneers for the sport of basketball and he helped the sport as a whole evolve. And respectfully recognized for it. If you want to argue how he impacted the ABA since that is where he played first then fine. But by the time he got to the NBA, his incredible style was already well established and he had already won ships and awards in a different league that was not apart of the NBA. Had he played there from the start and dominated in the same fashion then we may have an entirely different perspective. Jordan rose through a tough era of Bird, Magic, and the bad boy Pistons and gradually took over and continued to sustain a level of dominance unmatched by only a few. He also helped to evolve the modern NBA which means his impact on the league is equally important. That is what this thread is about. What four players historically impacted the NBA the most. I don't see how Jordan can be overlooked here.

MrX27
11-12-2011, 08:49 PM
not necessarily. Jackson was a good player and a great coach and his championship win-loss record obviously has matched Red, but was only a coach of two dynasties built by the work of others (Reiss, West, Kupchak). Auerbach as both a coach and executive, and did a LOT more than Jackson. He built every single one of the Celtics' 16 championship squads from top to bottom until his death.

Red didn't "build" 16 titles, Red got Bill Russell and rode him for 11 titles.

Not saying Red isn't good because he is, but back in those days Russell was more physically dominant over everyone until Wilt and Reed came along.

Sox Appeal
11-12-2011, 11:58 PM
David Stern, Billy Hunter, Derek Fisher, & Robert Sarver

3RDASYSTEM
11-13-2011, 12:13 AM
Good one SOX APPEAL, thats my new 4, the big core 4

bagwell368
11-13-2011, 10:35 PM
Red didn't "build" 16 titles, Red got Bill Russell and rode him for 11 titles.

Not saying Red isn't good because he is, but back in those days Russell was more physically dominant over everyone until Wilt and Reed came along.

Russell's physical dominance started to fade in 1960, and his offense with it. By the '65-'66 period he was all D. The Celts used to get 3 starters on the All Star game, and 2 starters and 1 or 2 subs. Red got them as GM, and coached them. He also dealt for Russell.

Red drafted White and Cowens and dealt for Silas and won two more. He drafted Bird as a Junior eligible. Then he dealt the pick that became Joe Barry Caroll for Parish and McHale, and got 3 more rings. In the early days he was the team secretary, head scout, and trainer.

If any non player deserves to honored, Red is far and away the greatest. His Coaching and GM tree is also huge and influential.

bagwell368
11-13-2011, 10:36 PM
Can I just add the only thing Mikan is truly remember for is the drill.

It's true.

bagwell368
11-13-2011, 10:42 PM
Dr. J didn't get to the NBA until 1976, so he was an appetizer for Bird/Magic, but clearly the best thing in the NBA for those years, but he was eclipsed by Bird in in just a few years.


That line says it all. He was the 6 Million Dollar man for a reason.

Read it again, he was one of the top 2-3 most recognized from 1976 until Bird/Magic. That's not very long, about as long as Kobe had, not enough for this company.


The ABA brought the NBA things that are widely loved as part of the game now, such as playing the game above the rim and the 3 pt line.

Wrong. Baylor started the vertical game well before the ABA. The 3 point line was well known in other countries. What I meant is that the ABA sucked away talent from the NBA - making it weak and boring compared to the 60's and especially what came afterwards.