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Punk
11-04-2011, 07:48 PM
The owners’ faction includes between 10 and 14 owners and is being led by Charlotte’s Michael Jordan, according to a person who has spoken with the owners. That group wanted the players’ share set no higher than 47 percent, and it was upset when league negotiators proposed a 50-50 split last month.

According to the person who spoke with the owners, Jordan’s faction intends to vote against the 50-50 deal, if negotiations get that far. Saturday’s owners meeting was arranged in part to address that concern.

A majority of the 29 owners are believed to support a 50-50 deal, but they are reluctant to move further.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/05/sports/basketball/hard-line-factions-threaten-latest-nba-negotiations.html?_r=1&ref=sports

Lol This is the same guy who told Abe in the last lockout "If you aren't making any money with your franchise, sell it"

Now, he's doing the exact samething.

topdog
11-04-2011, 08:06 PM
Lol This is the same guy who told Abe in the last lockout "If you aren't making any money with your franchise, sell it"

Now, he's doing the exact samething.

The irony is so delicious it should be part of a balanced breakfast :D

itsripcity32
11-04-2011, 08:07 PM
weren't you the one who posted that thread about the locking "ending soon"? you needa be banned. smh

GIANTKNICK
11-04-2011, 09:04 PM
M.J just wants to win at everything. So I guess if he can't beat these players on the court he will beat them this way.

beasted86
11-04-2011, 09:05 PM
Lol This is the same guy who told Abe in the last lockout "If you aren't making any money with your franchise, sell it"

Now, he's doing the exact samething.


The irony is so delicious it should be part of a balanced breakfast :D

Word.

Kevj77
11-04-2011, 09:52 PM
It's time for contraction. Stern should be fired if he ever tries to expand the NBA again. Seriously the Hornets moved from NC because they weren't selling out now the NBA owns them and Stern thought it was a good idea to put another expansion team in NC.

daleja424
11-04-2011, 09:59 PM
Shocking. Clearly MJ doesn't care that he is a self centered douche with absolutely no guiding life principles. When he was playing the players were worth 60+%, but now the players are worth less than 47%. When he was playing it was the owners job to make money, but now the owners need to be bailed out of the debt they built for themselves.

And that doesn't even mention the fact that Jordan is spitting in the faces of the nba guys that make him millions and millions of dollars selling Jordan brand products.

#### you Michael Jordan.

beasted86
11-04-2011, 10:08 PM
It's time for contraction. Stern should be fired if he ever tries to expand the NBA again. Seriously the Hornets moved from NC because they weren't selling out now the NBA owns them and Stern thought it was a good idea to put another expansion team in NC.

I definitely agree... teams should be moved if anything, but if they add another expansion team the NBA deserves to fold.

barreleffact
11-04-2011, 10:18 PM
Shocking. Clearly MJ doesn't care that he is a self centered douche with absolutely no guiding life principles. When he was playing the players were worth 60+%, but now the players are worth less than 47%. When he was playing it was the owners job to make money, but now the owners need to be bailed out of the debt they built for themselves.

And that doesn't even mention the fact that Jordan is spitting in the faces of the nba guys that make him millions and millions of dollars selling Jordan brand products.

#### you Michael Jordan.
This part is true, but the other part I highly doubt. When Jordan was playing he only made 3-4mil a year until his last 2 seasons where he made 30mil. I seriously doubt the Players made 60+% BRI during Jordan's time which is why the last 2 CBAs were so favorable toward the players. I could be incredibly wrong, however.

Hellcrooner
11-04-2011, 10:24 PM
yeah lets stop teams from being able to get to build "super teams" like say.......
the 96-98 bulls :rolleyes:

:D

Sinestro
11-04-2011, 10:41 PM
Someone should use his own line against him

Cal827
11-04-2011, 10:41 PM
Michael Jordan: The biggest douchebag in NBA history. Freaking takes the cake with this one lol

kjoke
11-04-2011, 10:45 PM
Can you blame Micheal? No matter if he was a player or not the Bobcats are losing money, nobody wants that.

ink
11-04-2011, 10:46 PM
Shocking. Clearly MJ doesn't care that he is a self centered douche with absolutely no guiding life principles.

Those two sentences contradict each other. If you think he's a self-centred douche how exactly is it shocking?

And seriously, put any of today's greedy stars in his position and they'd flip flop out of self-interest 10 times out of 10.

Thats' EXACTLY the problem with the NBA. Players used to being out for themselves and themselves alone.

kjoke
11-04-2011, 10:48 PM
^shocking was a sarcastic comment

beasted86
11-04-2011, 10:50 PM
Jordan's showdown with Pollin and fellow Bull Steve Kerr's verbal battle with David Stern were the highlights of the 11/2-hour meeting, according to several players.

According to players, Pollin said about his fellow owners, "You just have to trust us."

Jordan fired back, saying, "You've got to trust our negotiators." Jordan also blasted owners for not bargaining in good faith in the offseason and said to Pollin, "If you can't make a profit, you should sell your team."

Asked early today about the confrontation, Jordan replied, "I'm not trying to disrespect Abe, and I wouldn't expect him to disrepect us as players, but if they're gonna make a hard stand, we have to make a hard stand. And quite naturally, you're gonna have some angry positioning, but you have to set that aside."

Kerr, meanwhile, drew Stern's ire after he called aspects of the owners' proposal "an insult." Losing his cool, Stern responded by saying that the players' demand to have 63% of income go to salaries was also "an insult."

http://articles.nydailynews.com/1998-10-29/sports/18090869_1_abe-pollin-owners-wizards

ink
11-04-2011, 10:55 PM
^shocking was a sarcastic comment

Doesn't change what I said in any way.

BigCityofDreams
11-04-2011, 11:01 PM
Can you blame Micheal? No matter if he was a player or not the Bobcats are losing money, nobody wants that.

Didn't the Hornets have financial problems in Charlotte as well?

Teeboy1487
11-04-2011, 11:02 PM
Not surprised but yet surprised. He's an owner now and money is an issue. However, it's still kind of shocking to see him not relate to the players considering he was one.

ink
11-04-2011, 11:31 PM
Not surprised but yet surprised. He's an owner now and money is an issue. However, it's still kind of shocking to see him not relate to the players considering he was one.

Again, self-interested, pampered people like MJ and all of the pseudo-MJs after him, are or would be EXACTLY the same. That's the point I've been making for a couple of weeks while meanwhile the fans who idolize NBA "superstars" just keep defending the players. The sport is corrupt guys, and the biggest reason is that they have lost any idea of how to think as teammates. Fast forward 10 years and watch any of the current "superstars" act out of self-interest if they're owners. I'm not sure how you guys can't see that. Is the glare from superstar marketing that blinding?

JordansBulls
11-04-2011, 11:44 PM
yeah lets stop teams from being able to get to build "super teams" like say.......
the 96-98 bulls :rolleyes:

:D

how is a team a superteam when only two guys make the allstar team and one guy one year and only one guy wins all the league and finals mvp's?

This isn't 80's Lakers who were stacked with a bunch of guys who won league and finals mvp's.

Hellcrooner
11-04-2011, 11:48 PM
how is a team a superteam when only two guys make the allstar team and one guy one year and only one guy wins all the league and finals mvp's?

This isn't 80's Lakers who were stacked with a bunch of guys who won league and finals mvp's.

blah blah blah blah blah blah.

yeah yeah sure the 96-98 bulls were Mj and a bunch of scrubs.

And btw its JORDAN who is with the "hard line" owners so its proper that we talk bout his past not other players.

JordansBulls
11-04-2011, 11:50 PM
Michael Jordan: The biggest douchebag in NBA history. Freaking takes the cake with this one lol

Why because he is looking out for his interests when the players are doing the same?

Considering how much money players get these days vs when he played for most of his career, why the hell would he wont players to get as much as they are getting now especially scrubs?

Hell someone like Kenyon Dooling make this over the last 6 years

2005-06 Orlando Magic NBA $3,100,000
2006-07 Orlando Magic NBA $3,348,000
2007-08 Orlando Magic NBA $3,596,000
2008-09 New Jersey Nets NBA $3,300,000
2009-10 New Jersey Nets NBA $3,564,000
2010-11 Milwaukee Bucks NBA $2,000,000


MJ made this over

1990-91 Chicago Bulls NBA $2,500,000
1991-92 Chicago Bulls NBA $3,250,000
1992-93 Chicago Bulls NBA $4,000,000
1993-94 Chicago Bulls NBA $4,000,000
1994-95 Chicago Bulls NBA $3,850,000
1995-96 Chicago Bulls NBA $3,850,000


Magic Johnson made this:

1985-86 Los Angeles Lakers NBA $2,500,000
1987-88 Los Angeles Lakers NBA $2,500,000
1988-89 Los Angeles Lakers NBA $3,142,860
1990-91 Los Angeles Lakers NBA $2,400,000
1991-92 Los Angeles Lakers NBA $2,500,000
1992-93 Los Angeles Lakers NBA $2,500,000
1993-94 Los Angeles Lakers NBA $2,500,000

Sure times have changed, but there is no way scrubs should be making as much as all time legends. It's not like they played 50-60 years ago or something when revenue was totally different.

IrespectNumber3
11-04-2011, 11:59 PM
Im not with Jordan

JordansBulls
11-05-2011, 12:04 AM
blah blah blah blah blah blah.

yeah yeah sure the 96-98 bulls were Mj and a bunch of scrubs.

And btw its JORDAN who is with the "hard line" owners so its proper that we talk bout his past not other players.

Not really what you are talking about is pretty much off topic and has nothing to do with the topic. You were just trolling because you knew I would respond.
You said the Bulls were a stacked team or superteam and I said how is a team a stacked team or superteam when one player always had the best stats and won the league and finals mvp every time?

Dade County
11-05-2011, 12:04 AM
They should contract 4 teams on Saturday when the owners meet.

I know of two teams off the Top

Good Bye N.O, & Bobcats ...

The other two, pick out of......... Cav's, Kings, Lac, Minnesota, Bucks, Toronto, Nj,

I know what the toronto & Nj fans are going to say already... Save it!

northsider
11-05-2011, 12:14 AM
yeah lets stop teams from being able to get to build "super teams" like say.......
the 96-98 bulls :rolleyes:

:D

Super teams are you kidding me Scottie played for the Bulls since his Rookie year, Kukoc was drafted by the Bulls, Kerr and Longley had been there since 93, Harper in 94.

Now if you are talking about Randy Brown, Dickey Simpkins, Jud Buechler, Bison Dele, Jason Caffey, Bill Wennington who exactly are these super players they grabbed those years to make as super team???? Cause I am lost. That main core was built by the Bulls not aquired in some super team fashion outside of adding Rodman that is the only move I would consider them getting an absolute stud.

The core of that team was already in place so unless you were being sarcastic which you might of been your point holds no water IMO.

Bravo95
11-05-2011, 12:16 AM
lol

Hellcrooner
11-05-2011, 12:20 AM
Why because he is looking out for his interests when the players are doing the same?

Considering how much money players get these days vs when he played for most of his career, why the hell would he wont players to get as much as they are getting now especially scrubs?

Hell someone like Kenyon Dooling make this over the last 6 years

2005-06 Orlando Magic NBA $3,100,000
2006-07 Orlando Magic NBA $3,348,000
2007-08 Orlando Magic NBA $3,596,000
2008-09 New Jersey Nets NBA $3,300,000
2009-10 New Jersey Nets NBA $3,564,000
2010-11 Milwaukee Bucks NBA $2,000,000


MJ made this over

1990-91 Chicago Bulls NBA $2,500,000
1991-92 Chicago Bulls NBA $3,250,000
1992-93 Chicago Bulls NBA $4,000,000
1993-94 Chicago Bulls NBA $4,000,000
1994-95 Chicago Bulls NBA $3,850,000
1995-96 Chicago Bulls NBA $3,850,000


Magic Johnson made this:

1985-86 Los Angeles Lakers NBA $2,500,000
1987-88 Los Angeles Lakers NBA $2,500,000
1988-89 Los Angeles Lakers NBA $3,142,860
1990-91 Los Angeles Lakers NBA $2,400,000
1991-92 Los Angeles Lakers NBA $2,500,000
1992-93 Los Angeles Lakers NBA $2,500,000
1993-94 Los Angeles Lakers NBA $2,500,000

Sure times have changed, but there is no way scrubs should be making as much as all time legends. It's not like they played 50-60 years ago or something when revenue was totally different.

o yeah because the price of a coca cola can is the same NOW that it was was in 1991.

Oh and btw i find SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FUNNNNNNYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

that you are forgetting bout the B.S TAMPERING DEAL that Micahel Jordan had to allow the bulls to buy him every HELP he needed to win and staying UNDER THE CAP by paying him 3 or 4 million a year and then in his FINAL YEAR of his contract in 97-98 paying him what was it 30 Million dollars for 1 year?

That crap made owners to stablish the Max % of increase per year in teh contracts rule in the 98 lockout to about teams CHEATING again with that "pay it all the last year" crap.

Punk
11-05-2011, 12:20 AM
They should contract 4 teams on Saturday when the owners meet.

Okay, no offense but this is beyond ignorant and misinformed.



I know of two teams off the Top

Good Bye N.O, & Bobcats ...

The Bobcats are owned by Jordan. Do you really think they will get cut if he's leading into the meeting?

The Hornets are owned by the NBA. They would rather move them to a profitable city like Kansas instead of contracting.


The other two, pick out of......... Cav's, Kings, Lac, Minnesota, Bucks, Toronto, Nj,

You cannot be serious with these.

Cavs: Would you really do that to a team that was profitable 1 year ago? Sells tickets every night?

Kings: The team would make a huge profit in LA if they moved there. They aren't poor they just need a new arena.

Clippers: Hey, let's get rid of a team on the up swing because it's not the Lakers!

Wolves: I'm sure the guy elected to board of governors will kill off his own team.

Bucks: They are a boring team but they aren't that poor either.

Raptors: Are you kidding me? You want the NBA to contract a Top 10 profitable basketball team? In a large market too?

Nets: Hey, let's contract a team moving to New York. It certainly won't make money there!


I know what the toronto & Nj fans are going to say already... Save it!

Yeah, I mean who wants to save a team making millions and a huge part of helping small market teams.

beasted86
11-05-2011, 12:22 AM
Why because he is looking out for his interests when the players are doing the same?

Considering how much money players get these days vs when he played for most of his career, why the hell would he wont players to get as much as they are getting now especially scrubs?

Hell someone like Kenyon Dooling make this over the last 6 years

2005-06 Orlando Magic NBA $3,100,000
2006-07 Orlando Magic NBA $3,348,000
2007-08 Orlando Magic NBA $3,596,000
2008-09 New Jersey Nets NBA $3,300,000
2009-10 New Jersey Nets NBA $3,564,000
2010-11 Milwaukee Bucks NBA $2,000,000


MJ made this over

1990-91 Chicago Bulls NBA $2,500,000
1991-92 Chicago Bulls NBA $3,250,000
1992-93 Chicago Bulls NBA $4,000,000
1993-94 Chicago Bulls NBA $4,000,000
1994-95 Chicago Bulls NBA $3,850,000
1995-96 Chicago Bulls NBA $3,850,000


Magic Johnson made this:

1985-86 Los Angeles Lakers NBA $2,500,000
1987-88 Los Angeles Lakers NBA $2,500,000
1988-89 Los Angeles Lakers NBA $3,142,860
1990-91 Los Angeles Lakers NBA $2,400,000
1991-92 Los Angeles Lakers NBA $2,500,000
1992-93 Los Angeles Lakers NBA $2,500,000
1993-94 Los Angeles Lakers NBA $2,500,000

Sure times have changed, but there is no way scrubs should be making as much as all time legends. It's not like they played 50-60 years ago or something when revenue was totally different.

The funny thing is you post these numbers as if Jordan & Magic weren't underpaid in the regard to how much revenue they brought in.

League growth is at a much higher rate than the late 80s and early 90s as well. I don't know how old you are, but I recall the days where your average NBA team's local television got maybe 15 games a year, and there were around 30 more games to be seen (from all 28 teams total) through CBS/NBC. There was no NBA TV, no TNT or ESPN games, surely not league pass.

Hellcrooner
11-05-2011, 12:25 AM
Super teams are you kidding me Scottie played for the Bulls since his Rookie year, Kukoc was drafted by the Bulls, Kerr and Longley had been there since 93, Harper in 94.

Now if you are talking about Randy Brown, Dickey Simpkins, Jud Buechler, Bison Dele, Jason Caffey, Bill Wennington who exactly are these super players they grabbed those years to make as super team???? Cause I am lost. That main core was built by the Bulls not aquired in some super team fashion outside of adding Rodman that is the only move I would consider them getting an absolute stud.

The core of that team was already in place so unless you were being sarcastic which you might of been your point holds no water IMO.

the fact thAT BIRD CELTICS, Magic Lakers , Jordan bulls duncan Spurs or THomas Pistons were built with Wise drafting, good trades instead of pulling a MIAMI does not make them less Superteams.

The lockout is about envious owners moaning they cant win and instead of trying to make their work better stablish B.S rules to get their Goal ( wich they still Wont get no matter how many slavery rules they come up with, Sterling will not suddenly become a genius)

And AT THE SAME TIME they are trying to DESTROY the salarys of 90% of the league except for Allstars in order to Get a bigger part of the pie.

Wich is B.S

ink
11-05-2011, 12:43 AM
Super teams are you kidding me Scottie played for the Bulls since his Rookie year, Kukoc was drafted by the Bulls, Kerr and Longley had been there since 93, Harper in 94.

Now if you are talking about Randy Brown, Dickey Simpkins, Jud Buechler, Bison Dele, Jason Caffey, Bill Wennington who exactly are these super players they grabbed those years to make as super team???? Cause I am lost. That main core was built by the Bulls not aquired in some super team fashion outside of adding Rodman that is the only move I would consider them getting an absolute stud.

The core of that team was already in place so unless you were being sarcastic which you might of been your point holds no water IMO.

Exactly.

"Super teams" obviously doesn't mean all time great teams largely built from within.

But for some reason we keep seeing the same bad reasoning again and again.

Dade County
11-05-2011, 01:04 AM
Okay, no offense but this is beyond ignorant and misinformed.

Ignorant & Misinformed because you don't agree with it...smh

I am a very big supporter of Contraction.

Take those players that just had their team contracted, place them in their own draft, have the worse teams pick first, like in a regular worst to best draft team draft order; and those players still have to fulfill their current contacts.



The Bobcats are owned by Jordan. Do you really think they will get cut if he's leading into the meeting?

The Hornets are owned by the NBA. They would rather move them to a profitable city like Kansas instead of contracting.

WTf does Jordan leading into the meeting have to do with anything, his team is hurting the league... ( can't make any money and one of the main organizations causing this lockout to go deeper & deeper into the season ( Nobody wants to play for the bobcats!!!).


Highly profitable if Cp3 doesn't resign right? Just dump that team off to another city, and in about 3yrs they'll get tired of them too... smh





You cannot be serious with these.

Cavs: Would you really do that to a team that was profitable 1 year ago? Sells tickets every night?

I am not even going to comment on why the Cav's should be contracted ... you crazy guy you.



Kings: The team would make a huge profit in LA if they moved there. They aren't poor they just need a new arena.

Their just not relevant, those players on that team can be spread around the league. That will help out so much. i am not bad mouthing them, it's just the way it is.



Clippers: Hey, let's get rid of a team on the up swing because it's not the Lakers!

Clippers ... Are you going to sit their and tell me, because of last year, you are going to forget everything that this team hasn't done.... WHAT?:facepalm:



Wolves: I'm sure the guy elected to board of governors will kill off his own team.

I don't care if he was the president of the united damn states... That team needs to go! And wtf he would have no choice, it would be a vote. What is he going to do, say no and run off crying. This team has done nothing for the league (except one year in the WCF).



Bucks: They are a boring team but they aren't that poor either.

Yep ... Bucks are boring, but thats night a reason to contract them... When are they ever going to contain, thats the question you need to ask your self? Bu t they do play hard every-night.



Raptors: Are you kidding me? You want the NBA to contract a Top 10 profitable basketball team? In a large market too?

And I have no words for Toronto, they will just always be Toronto ... Nba Star players just don't want to stay and help build up that franchise. So their fans are just supposed to keep buying tickets knowing their team is never going to win a championship?



Nets: Hey, let's contract a team moving to New York. It certainly won't make money there!

If willaims doesn't resign, how the hell are they going to make money? That team realistically is not going to see a finals in a long long time. I know they have cap space, blah, blah, blah ... They are going to try to sign Howard, every team is going to try to offer something to Orlando.

And it's like I said, pick 4 out of these teams too contract, not everyone on the list...

But if N.O can resign Cp3 and bring him help then they can stay, if not, don't dump this team off to another fan base.

And the Bobcats, throw that team in the garbage.

ChiSoxJuan
11-05-2011, 01:39 AM
I think fans are clueless to just how dire the league is right now. Take a look at the top 3 PER with bulk mins on these teams: Mil, Cha, Det, NJ, DC, Tor, Cle, Hou, Uth, GS, LAC, Sac, Mn.

Mil, Cha, Det, Phx, DC, Tor, Cle, GS & Sac have no shot. They need an immediate infusion of talent to get to a 30 win mark. MJ should take his eye off BRI & put it squarely on a supplemental draft to immediately address the competitive imbalance in the league.

NJ, Hou, LAC have at least one potential star. A player with an above 5 PER. LAC is probably in the best shape of all lottery teams. They look to be one decent regular away from making the playoffs.

If Orl loses Howard after the trade deadline, you can add them to the list. They have no regular with a decent PER after Howard. Ind made the playoffs by default. They are a roster of a lot of decent players but no stars. Granger is just a 3.2 PER.

At least 10 teams need an immediate boost in the arm & a supplemental draft figures to be the best way to supply that. Teams would protect 5 players & the rest would be cast into this draft pool. The league would decide the order in which the teams pick & the price they have to pay in picks for the regular draft in order to select that player. This is how Cle can quickly turn those 2 late rounders from Mia into a quality player. This is the fastest way to get a decent player with decent PER on these teams.

Arch Stanton
11-05-2011, 01:39 AM
Ignorant & Misinformed because you don't agree with it...smh

I am a very big supporter of Contraction.

Take those players that just had their team contracted, place them in their own draft, have the worse teams pick first, like in a regular worst to best draft team draft order; and those players still have to fulfill their current contacts.



WTf does Jordan leading into the meeting have to do with anything, his team is hurting the league... ( can't make any money and one of the main organizations causing this lockout to go deeper & deeper into the season ( Nobody wants to play for the bobcats!!!).


Highly profitable if Cp3 doesn't resign right? Just dump that team off to another city, and in about 3yrs they'll get tired of them too... smh





I am not even going to comment on why the Cav's should be contracted ... you crazy guy you.



Their just not relevant, those players on that team can be spread around the league. That will help out so much. i am not bad mouthing them, it's just the way it is.



Clippers ... Are you going to sit their and tell me, because of last year, you are going to forget everything that this team hasn't done.... WHAT?:facepalm:



I don't care if he was the president of the united damn states... That team needs to go! And wtf he would have no choice, it would be a vote. What is he going to do, say no and run off crying. This team has done nothing for the league (except one year in the WCF).



Yep ... Bucks are boring, but thats night a reason to contract them... When are they ever going to contain, thats the question you need to ask your self? Bu t they do play hard every-night.



And I have no words for Toronto, they will just always be Toronto ... Nba Star players just don't want to stay and help build up that franchise. So their fans are just supposed to keep buying tickets knowing their team is never going to win a championship?



If willaims doesn't resign, how the hell are they going to make money? That team realistically is not going to see a finals in a long long time. I know they have cap space, blah, blah, blah ... They are going to try to sign Howard, every team is going to try to offer something to Orlando.

And it's like I said, pick 4 out of these teams too contract, not everyone on the list...

But if N.O can resign Cp3 and bring him help then they can stay, if not, don't dump this team off to another fan base.




And the Bobcats, throw that team in the garbage.




Maybe they should contract the Heat. Since they have 3 superstars or 2 1/2 whatever you want to call it. And they still have trouble filling the seats? Eventually Miami will be under water anyways. It'll sink into the sea and no one will remember or care. Maybe Hurricane Dan Gilbert will wipe Florida off the globe?

ChiSoxJuan
11-05-2011, 01:49 AM
If you are a fan of contraction then there is no real point in joining these debates. Contraction takes away player jobs & that's definitely not something the NBAPA wants.

The goal of any debate over this CBA is to improve competitive balance in the league as fast as possible while inflicting the least amount of harm to player's. A supplemental draft prior to the start of this season makes the most sense. Most if not all of these teams need players who can play bulk minutes & avg at least a 4 PER: Mil, Cha, Det, NJ, DC, Tor, Cle, Hou, Uth, GS, LAC, Sac, Mn. Most of them don't have any. Some of them like Det & Cle don't even have 3 PER players on their teams. Some like Sac have -PER guys amongst their guys that play the most. Think about that. Their best players are -PER guys!

The supplemental draft will only enhance the $ for players chosen as they will be moving to teams with better odds for more cap space.

Hellcrooner
11-05-2011, 01:50 AM
I think fans are clueless to just how dire the league is right now. Take a look at the top 3 PER with bulk mins on these teams: Mil, Cha, Det, NJ, DC, Tor, Cle, Hou, Uth, GS, LAC, Sac, Mn.

Mil, Cha, Det, Phx, DC, Tor, Cle, GS & Sac have no shot. They need an immediate infusion of talent to get to a 30 win mark. MJ should take his eye off BRI & put it squarely on a supplemental draft to immediately address the competitive imbalance in the league.

NJ, Hou, LAC have at least one potential star. A player with an above 5 PER. LAC is probably in the best shape of all lottery teams. They look to be one decent regular away from making the playoffs.

If Orl loses Howard after the trade deadline, you can add them to the list. They have no regular with a decent PER after Howard. Ind made the playoffs by default. They are a roster of a lot of decent players but no stars. Granger is just a 3.2 PER.

At least 10 teams need an immediate boost in the arm & a supplemental draft figures to be the best way to supply that. Teams would protect 5 players & the rest would be cast into this draft pool. The league would decide the order in which the teams pick & the price they have to pay in picks for the regular draft in order to select that player. This is how Cle can quickly turn those 2 late rounders from Mia into a quality player. This is the fastest way to get a decent player with decent PER on these teams.


cavs have just drafted 2 top 5 dudes, wolves drafted williams and they added rubio ( top 6 pick the year before) to add to LOVE, thats how you add talent when you are down ( wich is cyclical)

undeer current cba ALL THOSE players are boudn to the team for 5 years and ROOKIE DEAL ( wich lets you money in fa IF YOU ARE NOT A MORON) then they have the option to MATCH any offer and have them another 5 years.

if they CANT build something in 10 years is they are STUPID and they deserve to disapear, is nto the players fault.
and its only logical a player woudl want to scape that situation ( garnett)

thats how things are.

ChiSoxJuan
11-05-2011, 01:56 AM
Do you realize that every one of your posts favors contraction? What's the point when that's clearly something the NBAPA doesn't want? It takes time to develop draft picks & the odds of busts are higher in the NBA than the other Big 4. These teams need proven players to have any chance at just increasing their wins. A Supplemental draft can give them that chance. Other league's have done it. MLB has it's rule 5 draft.

Hellcrooner
11-05-2011, 02:06 AM
Do you realize that every one of your posts favors contraction? What's the point when that's clearly something the NBAPA doesn't want? It takes time to develop draft picks & the odds of busts are higher in the NBA than the other Big 4. These teams need proven players to have any chance at just increasing their wins. A Supplemental draft can give them that chance. Other league's have done it. MLB has it's rule 5 draft.

on the contrary.

Im in favour of a 32 team league.

Adding 2 more teams one per coast with an expansion draft in wich you only can protect 2 players ( and the teams cant pick more then 1 player per team)

would efectively balance the thing a bit right of the bat.


But to be honest i would prefer a REAL professional basketball structure in Usa

with only 1 profesional leage, 300 teams and vertical divisions with promotion/relegation and Free market.

Dade County
11-05-2011, 02:08 AM
Maybe they should contract the Heat. Since they have 3 superstars or 2 1/2 whatever you want to call it. And they still have trouble filling the seats? Eventually Miami will be under water anyways. It'll sink into the sea and no one will remember or care. Maybe Hurricane Dan Gilbert will wipe Florida off the globe?

Good ****... lmao :clap: creative!

Anilyzer
11-05-2011, 02:26 AM
1. Th8is looks like some kinda new PR maneuver, ie the owners are looking like a-holes so let's blame it on Jordan

2. If you read the article btween the lines, you see that Stern IS panicked, and wants to settle immediately(at 51%).

Therefore Stern is against the hardline owners, and he got defeated last week (at 52%).

I really feel that Stern stands with thebig market or status quo faction, and would done the deal at 54% with identical CBA.

Anyways, get ready to be happy, very likely this gets done tomorrow, Stern will do almost anything to get the owners to sign.

Hellcrooner
11-05-2011, 02:32 AM
1. Th8is looks like some kinda new PR maneuver, ie the owners are looking like a-holes so let's blame it on Jordan

2. If you read the article btween the lines, you see that Stern IS panicked, and wants to settle immediately(at 51%).

Therefore Stern is against the hardline owners, and he got defeated last week (at 52%).

I really feel that Stern stands with thebig market or status quo faction, and would done the deal at 54% with identical CBA.

Anyways, get ready to be happy, very likely this gets done tomorrow, Stern will do almost anything to get the owners to sign.


i guess if stern is a WISE man he knows the league will give MUCH MORE money if the Conference finals involve Lakers vs Rockets/Mavs/CLippers/Warriors and Knicks vs Bulls / Celtics/Heat/sixers

than money it would generate a Okc vs mem and Cavs vs Raptors C Finals.

So, the less they walk away from LAST cba the better for the league.


What indeed shoudl be made is some sort of revenue sharing between teams, so owners of crap teams still make money and shut the F up ( dotn fool yourselves thats all they want, Money).

gotoHcarolina52
11-05-2011, 02:35 AM
Michael Jordan doesn't know how to run an NBA franchise to save his life.

Hellcrooner
11-05-2011, 02:39 AM
Michael Jordan doesn't know how to run an NBA franchise to save his life.

i guess he is still butthurt he took Kwame over Gasol ( or parker, or arenas, or joe johnson, or richard jefferson or chandler or ......)

or that he took Morrison AT ALL.


:D

I guess stern was behind him telling him to pick the stache " look michael you are a small market , we cant allow you to compete, please take Morrison"

TopsyTurvy
11-05-2011, 03:01 AM
Is there a list of the hardline ownership groups? I would be very interested to see if they were the same owners with ties to NHL franchises (or straight up owners of NHL teams).

abe_froman
11-05-2011, 03:09 AM
Is there a list of the hardline ownership groups? I would be very interested to see if they were the same owners with ties to NHL franchises (or straight up owners of NHL teams).

its about 10-14 owners,all small market ones from reports.so can guess,plot from there.specifics arent known as far as i know(except jordan,and the owner of the spurs from earlier comments made)

naps
11-05-2011, 03:13 AM
I guess it's his ultimate competitiveness. I can't blame him to be honest. The guy wants to win at everything. I respect that.

Puck017
11-05-2011, 04:02 AM
You a bunch of idiots. The Charlotte Hornets were one of the best teams in the league as far as attendance was concerned. The reason the team moved is because the owner George Shinn raped someone and used his money to get out of it, but refused to sell the team so he moved it thanks to the decrease in attendance that he inspired. If you don't believe me about the attendance check out this link: http://www.apbr.org/attendance.html. Why the Bobcat don't have nearly as much of a following I can't say for sure. Personally I lost all enthusiasm about the team after Bob Johnson named it after himself. I just root for players now.

Tony_Starks
11-05-2011, 01:56 PM
I rarely agree with anything this guy says but he hit it on the head with this one. MJ got fat as a player from the system and even reportedly got into heated shouting matches with owners during a lockout as a player but now that he's on the other side of the table he's forgot where he came from....

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Updated Nov 5, 2011 12:50 PM ET

"Michael Jeffrey Jordan finally found a cause he can get behind off the court: being an obstacle for any black kid dreaming of matching or exceeding Jordan’s wealth.

Sellout.

BETRAYAL?

Now that NBA superstars have decided to fully engage in the lockout negotiations and threaten union decertification, David Stern and ownership have decided to unleash their token minority owner from the house to play hardball. According to The New York Times, Michael Jeffrey Jordan, the greatest player of all time, is the owner most determined to bury the union financially. Jordan allegedly wants current players to take a 10- to 20-point basketball-related-income pay cut.

Sellout.

This is the ultimate betrayal. A league filled mostly with African-American young men who grew up wanting to be like Mike is finally getting to see just who Michael Jordan is. He’s a cheap, stingy, mean-spirited, cut-throat, greedy, uncaring, disloyal slave to his own bottom line.

Nike’s “Air Jordan” marketing strategy was based on getting black inner-city kids to worship Jordan and his shoes. Allen Iverson, LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Paul Pierce, the Fab Five, etc., made Michael Jordan a billionaire. The NBA Players Association fought like crazy so the Bulls could make $30 million balloon payments to Jordan in each of his final two seasons in Chicago.

And now Jordan, as the owner of the Charlotte Bobcats, wants to be the face of ownership greed and vindictiveness.

Sellout.


With Kwame Brown and Adam Morrison on his resume, Jordan is arguably the most incompetent NBA executive working today. He wants the current players to pay for his incompetence.

Why would basketball players and black people continue to shower adoration on a man who has never once stood up for anything that doesn’t positively impact his financial bottom line, particularly when it’s a man who has made billions off the love of inner-city kids?

Why love someone who doesn’t remotely love you back?


There’s no reason for Jordan to be drunk on haterade. These kids deserve the money, even if some of them blow a percentage of it making it rain at strip clubs. I’m not defending their financial irresponsibility, but we do need a little context. When we tell the stories about the athletes who are broke three or four years after retirement, we often leave out the details about the countless friends and family members the athletes helped while blowing their money. They “blow” money on school clothes, private schools, medical bills and college tuitions, too.

I fully comprehend the shortcomings of modern-day pro athletes, but I do not understand the outright hatred of them. They don’t deserve it.

Save the venom for a hypocrite sellout who can easily betray the very people who made him a billionaire global icon.

Michael Jordan should be the “basketball voice” in the owners’ meetings, the owner most concerned with the health and image of the on-court product. Jordan should be the guy bringing both sides together to do the right thing for the game.

He should pay a price for his betrayal. There should be a player-led boycott of his Nike brand. The current players should do everything in their power to make the Air Jordan brand unfashionable in the ’hood and the ’burbs.

Don’t support a man who stood for nothing until it was time to do the bidding of billionaire owners."





http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/Michael-Jordan-siding-with-David-Stern-in-NBA-lockout-a-selfish-betrayal-110411

Dade County
11-05-2011, 02:14 PM
Nice^^^^

ink
11-05-2011, 02:17 PM
I have to laugh at people demonizing their heroes after they idolize them. Guaranteed that Lebron or any of the other "superstars" of today would do exactly the same self-centred flip flop if they were owners.

Guaranteed.

The obvious point in this is don't hero worship these guys. Or if you do, at least realize that they are about themselves.

There's no contradiction in MJs behaviour. He, like Lebron, Melo, Bosh, Amare, etc. are only about themselves. So as players they are about themselves and as owners they'd be about themselves. The real blame falls on the fans who fall for this crap.

Tony_Starks
11-05-2011, 02:34 PM
I have to laugh at people demonizing their heroes after they idolize them. Guaranteed that Lebron or any of the other "superstars" of today would do exactly the same self-centred flip flop if they were owners.

Guaranteed.

The obvious point in this is don't hero worship these guys. Or if you do, at least realize that they are about themselves.

There's no contradiction in MJs behaviour. He, like Lebron, Melo, Bosh, Amare, etc. are only about themselves. So as players they are about themselves and as owners they'd be about themselves. The real blame falls on the fans who fall for this crap.


Im sorry but to just say "well everyone else would do it" is a huge cop out. For one we don't know what they would do, and for two it's still no excuse. Guys like Magic paved the way for him to get paid, now he's turning around and going to do the exact opposite for the next generation?

Also this is no typical superstar. This man is in the unique position of having literally made billions from the likes of young kids who idolized him and built their hoop dreams around him. For those of them that were or will be fortunate enough to make it, he's not only going along with slashing their pay but being a big ringleader of it.

Thats a big time sellout move, in particular coming from a black man.

og knick
11-05-2011, 02:40 PM
Jordan had a lot of gifts like any top tier NBA player.
He always was Sterns little pet with all the touch fouls and invisible fouls he got called his way.
He's just still being sterns little b***h.

I loved him coming up, hated him being Sterns pet when he was on top, was fortunate to have seen him play.... and now lost all respect for him.

Stern ruined basketball being too greedy( 1 million to him from each team in the nba each year) and trying to dictate the outcome of games too much.

The small market owners should be pissed off at Stern only ...especially Phoenix and Sacramento .

Need a new league and ******* Jordan and Stern.

Arch Stanton
11-05-2011, 02:42 PM
I have to laugh at people demonizing their heroes after they idolize them. Guaranteed that Lebron or any of the other "superstars" of today would do exactly the same self-centred flip flop if they were owners.

Guaranteed.

The obvious point in this is don't hero worship these guys. Or if you do, at least realize that they are about themselves.

There's no contradiction in MJs behaviour. He, like Lebron, Melo, Bosh, Amare, etc. are only about themselves. So as players they are about themselves and as owners they'd be about themselves. The real blame falls on the fans who fall for this crap.

Yep... totally agree.

Now I don't want to generalize but these threads go in the same circles. And not everyone falls under these standards but fans from large market teams support players. Fans from small market teams support the owners. And if the shoe was on the other foot well people would switch sides. Everyone is selfishly protecting their own interests. Large market fans selfishly want to horde talent and have the league contract some of the small market teams. Small market teams just want competitive balance.

ink
11-05-2011, 02:44 PM
Im sorry but to just say "well everyone else would do it" is a huge cop out. For one we don't know what they would do, and for two it's still no excuse. Guys like Magic paved the way for him to get paid, now he's turning around and going to do the exact opposite for the next generation?

Also this is no typical superstar. This man is in the unique position of having literally made billions from the likes of young kids who idolized him and built their hoop dreams around him. For those of them that were or will be fortunate enough to make it, he's not only going along with slashing their pay but being a big ringleader of it.

Thats a big time sellout move, in particular coming from a black man.

What I said is no cop out. The league and the fans created and enabled the ego these guys have. We've already seen massive disloyalty from all of the 2000s crop of players, so they have ALREADY shown us that their loyalty is only to themselves. The proof is already there but people are so deeply into hero worship they can't see it. People desperately want to believe in their heroes while they're playing, or worse still, they want to fight 24/7 over which of their heroes is "better" than someone else's hero on the internet. Guys, if you participate in this all you're doing is enabling the massive egos and losing contact with the sport. Now, Jordan is doing what he always did. It's not some moral issue, and if it is, it's been a moral issue (a small one at that) since he started selling Jordans. I have no idea how people can be so blinded by marketing, then or now. Seriously, this is not some deep moral issue. It's just about seeing the monster egos we have created with our silly infatuations with players.

Arch Stanton
11-05-2011, 02:51 PM
What I said is no cop out. The league and the fans created and enabled the ego these guys have. We've already seen massive disloyalty from all of the 2000s crop of players, so they have ALREADY shown us that their loyalty is only to themselves. The proof is already there but people are so deeply into hero worship they can't see it. People desperately want to believe in their heroes while they're playing, or worse still, they want to fight 24/7 over which of their heroes is "better" than someone else's hero on the internet. Guys, if you participate in this all you're doing is enabling the massive egos and losing contact with the sport. Now, Jordan is doing what he always did. It's not some moral issue, and if it is, it's been a moral issue (a small one at that) since he started selling Jordans. I have no idea how people can be so blinded by marketing, then or now. Seriously, this is not some deep moral issue. It's just about seeing the monster egos we have created with our silly infatuations with players.

It's because they see themselves in their hero's and so there hero's can do no wrong.

Tony_Starks
11-05-2011, 03:11 PM
What I said is no cop out. The league and the fans created and enabled the ego these guys have. We've already seen massive disloyalty from all of the 2000s crop of players, so they have ALREADY shown us that their loyalty is only to themselves. The proof is already there but people are so deeply into hero worship they can't see it. People desperately want to believe in their heroes while they're playing, or worse still, they want to fight 24/7 over which of their heroes is "better" than someone else's hero on the internet. Guys, if you participate in this all you're doing is enabling the massive egos and losing contact with the sport. Now, Jordan is doing what he always did. It's not some moral issue, and if it is, it's been a moral issue (a small one at that) since he started selling Jordans. I have no idea how people can be so blinded by marketing, then or now. Seriously, this is not some deep moral issue. It's just about seeing the monster egos we have created with our silly infatuations with players.

Thats a HUGE generalization. But for arguments sake leaving a team you've given 7 years to build a contender around you, and turning your back on the very people who idolize you and made you the billionaire icon you are today, some of whom even represent your brand bringing you in even more money as we speak are completely different things.

You can call the 2000 players disloyal, I can call them unselfish for taking a paycut and putting their ego to the side for the sake of winning. The same way people can say the should've stayed, I can applaud them for showing that for once some athletes proved it wasn't all about the money and being "the man."

The point is to most reasonable people thats debatable. What Michael Jordan is doing isn't even up for debate, its a snake move. I don't idolize the man at all but you're absolving him from common decency. Forget right and wrong and hero worship and all that other crap. If you're a black guy that came from the bottom to be where you are now and now you're impeding the efforts of some young guys trying to do exactly what you did, you are a snake. Straight up.


edit.

And btw lest we forget this is the same guy that recently said of his owner during his HOF speech



" He said organizations win championships. I said, ‘I didn’t see organizations playing with the flu in Utah. I didn’t see it playing with a bad ankle.’”


“Granted, I think organizations put together teams, but at the end of the day, the team’s got to go out and play. I think the players win the championship, and the organization has something to do with it, don’t get me wrong. But don’t try to put the organization above the players"

Dade County
11-05-2011, 03:13 PM
Yep... totally agree.

Now I don't want to generalize but these threads go in the same circles. And not everyone falls under these standards but fans from large market teams support players. Fans from small market teams support the owners. And if the shoe was on the other foot well people would switch sides. Everyone is selfishly protecting their own interests. Large market fans selfishly want to horde talent and have the league contract some of the small market teams. Small market teams just want competitive balance.

Since some Owners & Players laugh at the thought of the league being competitive balance, can you please shed some light on how this can happen...

All 30 teams being competitive balance, that is?

northsider
11-05-2011, 03:16 PM
hahahahah to say that the players wouldn't do the same thing is pretty laughable seeing as they do it all the ****ing time in the league complaining about contracts, wanting more money, going to teams strictly cause of money, leaving small markets. If you honestly think that at the end of the day superstars main objective isn't numero uno then you are significantly blind.

I am finding it even more laughable that you guys are shocked that a BUSINESS OWNER wants to make a profit. Remember this is a business not some charity even put on for us to enjoy.

Dade County
11-05-2011, 03:16 PM
Thats a HUGE generalization. But for arguments sake leaving a team you've given 7 years to build a contender around you, and turning your back on the very people who idolize you and made you the billionaire icon you are today, some of whom even represent your brand bringing you in even more money as we speak are completely different things.

You can call the 2000 players disloyal, I can call them unselfish for taking a paycut and putting their ego to the side for the sake of winning. The same way people can say the should've stayed, I can applaud them for showing that for once some athletes proved it wasn't all about the money and being "the man."
"[/B]

Omg... You have beautiful woman on your sig & user pic, and you make sense too :clap:





And btw lest we forget this is the same guy that recently said of his owner during his HOF speech



" He said organizations win championships. I said, ‘I didn’t see organizations playing with the flu in Utah. I didn’t see it playing with a bad ankle.’”


“Granted, I think organizations put together teams, but at the end of the day, the team’s got to go out and play. I think the players win the championship, and the organization has something to do with it, don’t get me wrong. But don’t try to put the organization above the players"

I see that you can't be stopped today

Anilyzer
11-05-2011, 03:20 PM
Yep... totally agree.

Now I don't want to generalize but these threads go in the same circles. And not everyone falls under these standards but fans from large market teams support players. Fans from small market teams support the owners. And if the shoe was on the other foot well people would switch sides. Everyone is selfishly protecting their own interests. Large market fans selfishly want to horde talent and have the league contract some of the small market teams. Small market teams just want competitive balance.

I would disagree. A lot of "pro player" folks (and hbow can you not be "pro player"? Pro owner? What is that?) Just want to see good great and elite teams, wherever they are, and want to see the players make their fair share. That is part of the counterculture history and appeal of basketball.

Anyways, the fact is that all the "new" or "small market" owners have gotten suckered big time, not quite Maddoff'd but pretty bad. So these owners are screaming for justice... it's like the Tea Party: they thbink if they just get a few more points from the players, but the person who is really hammering hem is Stern and the established big mkt owners

Jamiecballer
11-05-2011, 03:22 PM
Im sorry but to just say "well everyone else would do it" is a huge cop out. For one we don't know what they would do, and for two it's still no excuse. Guys like Magic paved the way for him to get paid, now he's turning around and going to do the exact opposite for the next generation?

Also this is no typical superstar. This man is in the unique position of having literally made billions from the likes of young kids who idolized him and built their hoop dreams around him. For those of them that were or will be fortunate enough to make it, he's not only going along with slashing their pay but being a big ringleader of it.

Thats a big time sellout move, in particular coming from a black man.

maybe now that he's had a chance to see things from the other side he's realized that in order for there to even be another generation things have to change...

ink
11-05-2011, 03:25 PM
Thats a HUGE generalization. But for arguments sake leaving a team you've given 7 years to build a contender around you, and turning your back on the very people who idolize you and made you the billionaire icon you are today, some of whom even represent your brand bringing you in even more money as we speak are completely different things.

But that's my whole point. Only because fans idolize them and see them (falsely) as heroes does it appear to be a betrayal. These guys have been self-centred all along, and we've been the ones enabling it. Why the surprise when they're just being true to character, true to what they've been before?


You can call the 2000 players disloyal, I can call them unselfish for taking a paycut and putting their ego to the side for the sake of winning. The same way people can say the should've stayed, I can applaud them for showing that for once some athletes proved it wasn't all about the money and being "the man."

Yeah, I'm familiar with that warped fan logic to defend their heroes. As Arch says, they identify with their heroes and will defend anything they do, whether it's good or bad. What we see is a lot of excuse making that turns into cliches about their motives: i.e. they "put a premium on winning", at least I think that's how the cliche is usually worded. It's nothing of the sort of course, all they want is the self-aggrandizement of having a ring and being able to feed their egos. It's a phenomenon that has taken hold in the last decade more than ever. The sad thing is that so many people enable these egos by providing them with (what seem like) thought-through excuses. They're not. The sport is about attacking and defending and winning and losing as a team. It's not about manipulating the rules to put yourself in a winning position. That's why my admiration for guys like Miller or Stockton is so high. They were above the cheap manipulations; they were about the sport.


The point is to most reasonable people thats debatable. What Michael Jordan is doing isn't even up for debate, its a snake move. I don't idolize the man at all but you're absolving him from common decency. Forget right and wrong and hero worship and all that other crap. If you're a black guy that came from the bottom to be where you are now and now you're impeding the efforts of some young guys trying to do exactly what you did, you are a snake. Straight up.

Like I said, he's working out of self-interest like every other current so-called "superstar". And in the big picture of world events, since people are attempting to put these negotiations in that "serious" context (i.e. the slavery, plantation, sellout, brother who betrays his own, yadayada), this is tiny. This is nothing more than everyday hero worship gone wrong. It has its ugly side and people hate facing it. The answer: don't get sucked in. Define yourself as yourself instead of needing heroes to define you. Look at these guys for what they are instead of making excuses for your heroes.

ink
11-05-2011, 03:28 PM
maybe now that he's had a chance to see things from the other side he's realized that in order for there to even be another generation things have to change...

Exactly. Basically, he's seen the books, he knows the challenges of running a team. He's seen it from the other side. Maybe he realizes now that even the greatest basketball player in history struggles to make this league work as it's currently constructed. Since he is an owner now, he has a say, and he sees it differently than he did when he was a player. Maybe instead of ridiculing that people should consider that there is a business side to this, a non-fantasy side where very tough economic decisions have to be made daily.

Arch Stanton
11-05-2011, 03:43 PM
Since some Owners & Players laugh at the thought of the league being competitive balance, can you please shed some light on how this can happen...

All 30 teams being competitive balance, that is?

Nothing is ever going to be truly fair for all markets. But they can try to make attempts to improve it. Possibly by following a similar format to the NFL? That's a good starting point.

Arch Stanton
11-05-2011, 03:44 PM
^^^^ That's why you see teams like the Green Bay Packers and the Pittsburgh Steelers winning championships.

City
11-05-2011, 03:44 PM
Those two sentences contradict each other. If you think he's a self-centred douche how exactly is it shocking?

And seriously, put any of today's greedy stars in his position and they'd flip flop out of self-interest 10 times out of 10.

Thats' EXACTLY the problem with the NBA. Players used to being out for themselves and themselves alone.

...

Tony_Starks
11-05-2011, 03:45 PM
But that's my whole point. Only because fans idolize them and see them (falsely) as heroes does it appear to be a betrayal. These guys have been self-centred all along, and we've been the ones enabling it. Why the surprise when they're just being true to character, true to what they've been before?



Yeah, I'm familiar with that warped fan logic to defend their heroes. As Arch says, they identify with their heroes and will defend anything they do, whether it's good or bad. What we see is a lot of excuse making that turns into cliches about their motives: i.e. they "put a premium on winning", at least I think that's how the cliche is usually worded. It's nothing of the sort of course, all they want is the self-aggrandizement of having a ring and being able to feed their egos. It's a phenomenon that has taken hold in the last decade more than ever. The sad thing is that so many people enable these egos by providing them with (what seem like) thought-through excuses. They're not. The sport is about attacking and defending and winning and losing as a team. It's not about manipulating the rules to put yourself in a winning position. That's why my admiration for guys like Miller or Stockton is so high. They were above the cheap manipulations; they were about the sport.



Like I said, he's working out of self-interest like every other current so-called "superstar". And in the big picture of world events, since people are attempting to put these negotiations in that "serious" context (i.e. the slavery, plantation, sellout, brother who betrays his own, yadayada), this is tiny. This is nothing more than everyday hero worship gone wrong. It has its ugly side and people hate facing it. The answer: don't get sucked in. Define yourself as yourself instead of needing heroes to define you. Look at these guys for what they are instead of making excuses for your heroes.



I guess we'll agree to disagree because it seems you truly don't understand where I'm coming from and what the writer of that article was saying. You keep going back to this "hero" thing for whatever reason. To be clear: I don't look to sports for heroes. My heroes are Malchom X, Richard Pryor, and the chicks in my sigs.

With MJ its as simple to me as this: black guy. came from something to nothing and got ridiculously paid. now a chief adversary of the same young black guys who made him rich trying to get ridiculously paid= sellout. I totally get he's now a business man and the bottom line and all that but I believe he still has a responsibility to those who made him who he is. Call me crazy. I'd would be different if he was at least attempting to be objective but he's leading the charge of unreasonableness for profit players and fans be damned....

Simple as that. Now you can pontificate over the what if's and who would do the same thing and all that. That kind of make believe is great but in reality, as we sit, the biggest name in the history of sports who benefitted the most is doing it so people have a right to call him out on it.

Arch Stanton
11-05-2011, 03:56 PM
I guess we'll agree to disagree because it seems you truly don't understand where I'm coming from and what the writer of that article was saying. You keep going back to this "hero" thing for whatever reason. To be clear: I don't look to sports for heroes. My heroes are Malchom X, Richard Pryor, and the chicks in my sigs.

With MJ its as simple to me as this: black guy. came from something to nothing and got ridiculously paid. now a chief adversary of young black guys trying to get ridiculously paid= sellout.

Simple as that. Now you can pontificate over the what if's and who would do the same thing and all that. That kind of make believe is great but in reality, as we sit, the biggest name in the history of sports who benefitted the most is doing it so people have a right to call him out on it.

A lot of people look to sports for heroes. You don't which is fine. But within games are stories and within stories are protagonists. And that's the emotional connection fans develop with players/teams. And with that comes blind love and homerism.

ChiSoxJuan
11-05-2011, 04:38 PM
With MJ its as simple to me as this: black guy. came from something to nothing and got ridiculously paid. now a chief adversary of the same young black guys who made him rich trying to get ridiculously paid= sellout.

That's racist. Why does his color have to come into play as an owner? MJ was arguably the greatest NBA player ever. His popularity grew well beyond the game of basketball to where he became the most known athlete on the planet. More people in this world knew who MJ was than the most famous soccer player & soccer is the world's top sport.

I don't fault MJ for trying to use this CBA to improve the odds of his team becoming a contender. I do fault him for trying to do that mostly at the player's expense. His hardliners are trying to reign in the free spenders by restricting their exemptions & imposing a harsher tax system. They then want to lower the cost of the player's so they fit with in their financial resources. I don't believe that's the right way to go & I think MLB has a better system to prove it. So I can respectfully disagree with MJ while still maintaining my hero worship of the closest thing we can imagine to Hercules in the sports world. His legendary feats will be talked about long after any of us are in the grave or scattered like dust in the wind. As BB grows around the world, asians will be discussing the legendary MJ.

Hellcrooner
11-05-2011, 05:27 PM
^^^^ That's why you see teams like the Green Bay Packers and the Pittsburgh Steelers winning championships.

16 vs 82

then 4 instead of 16 to 28



trying to compare nfl competivity with other sports is ridiculous.

lets bring on march madness too........

then remember barcelona beat the lakers a year ago ( what would have happened if it was a 7 game series? o yeah......parity my ***.

Tony_Starks
11-05-2011, 06:08 PM
Omg... You have beautiful woman on your sig & user pic, and you make sense too :clap:





I see that you can't be stopped today


Hey Im glad somebody sees what Im saying man. But hey it's your Miami Heats fault man they started this whole mess by unfairly putting together the big 3. There's a new unwritten rule that says there must be a maximum of 2 allstars per team, 1 and a half if your a big market team, and only 1 if you've ever won a championship before.

So technically under the new rules you guys will only be able to keep Wade. Lebron is hereby sentenced Charlotte, and Bosh must be banished to Minnesota.

Also Mike Miller was once a three point champion, there may be further sanctions involved!

JasonJohnHorn
11-05-2011, 06:10 PM
Shocking. Clearly MJ doesn't care that he is a self centered douche with absolutely no guiding life principles. When he was playing the players were worth 60+%, but now the players are worth less than 47%. When he was playing it was the owners job to make money, but now the owners need to be bailed out of the debt they built for themselves.

And that doesn't even mention the fact that Jordan is spitting in the faces of the nba guys that make him millions and millions of dollars selling Jordan brand products.

#### you Michael Jordan.

OMG YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Apperently being able to own his own jet with his logo on it is not enough money. And since he has spear headed drafting the likes of Kwambe Brown and Adam Morrison, he won't ever be able to win a title without buying it, so now he wants the salaries to come down.

How about this MJ: What ever your gut says, DON'T DO IT!!! You were great on the floor, but behind the desk, you have no clue what you are doing. Joe Dumars took him to school 3 out of 4 years, then showed him up in the office by putting together a contender that won a title.

ewmania
11-05-2011, 06:10 PM
so does anyone know if they are still talking?

Anilyzer
11-05-2011, 06:17 PM
That's racist. Why does his color have to come into play as an owner? MJ was arguably the greatest NBA player ever. His popularity grew well beyond the game of basketball to where he became the most known athlete on the planet. More people in this world knew who MJ was than the most famous soccer player & soccer is the world's top sport.

I don't fault MJ for trying to use this CBA to improve the odds of his team becoming a contender. I do fault him for trying to do that mostly at the player's expense. His hardliners are trying to reign in the free spenders by restricting their exemptions & imposing a harsher tax system. They then want to lower the cost of the player's so they fit with in their financial resources. I don't believe that's the right way to go & I think MLB has a better system to prove it. So I can respectfully disagree with MJ while still maintaining my hero worship of the closest thing we can imagine to Hercules in the sports world. His legendary feats will be talked about long after any of us are in the grave or scattered like dust in the wind. As BB grows around the world, asians will be discussing the legendary MJ.

Look, I'm telling you guys, the MJ thing is a red herring. None of us ever heard ANYTHING about "MJ is leading the hardline owners" until yesterday, when this news outlet posted the story... which if you look at it, is really flimsy, and has WAY more conjecture, opinion and spin than actual hard facts.

Anybody got a quote from Jordan on this? Has... Jordan done any interviews on this, where he trashes the players and holds the line for the owners? Has Jordan showed up at the meetings and stared down KG across the table, or has he told Fisher and Hunter to "sell the union if you can't make a profit"?

Uh, how about no, no, no and... no. Nothing. Right?

We all know, and it's been incredibly well-documented, that this was Dan Gilbert and Paul Allen and Peter Holt and a few other guys. They've been at the center the whole time. And they're taking a beating PR-wise, because A. nobody really likes them and B. everyone can see they don't really care about the game, they just want to cash out and sell the teams. In the case of Gilbert there is also all the ugliness regarding the anger over the Lebron situation.

So, now, as a PR move, let's release this article that suddenly "reveals" that good 'ol MJ has been the leader of the "bad" owners all along. It's clear they're just using him, or somebody is. They're trying to put all the blame on him, and also to say "look, somebody who cares about the game."

It's nice... even the article itself is written as if it's so mad and disappointed in MJ, while trying to make him the new face of the lockout. We should really call out this kind of phoney fake journalism.

Read the "factual" part of the story again:

["The owners’ faction includes between 10 and 14 owners and is being led by Charlotte’s Michael Jordan, according to a person who has spoken with the owners."]

Oh... really, Meester Helin. Really? That is your source? A "person who has spoken with the owners."

Wow, that could be anybody. That could be a freakin' hooker or a coke dealer for all we know... or a stock broker.

But, ok, let's say you got your info from "person who has spoken with the owners"; ok fine. But, the "owners' faction" is between 10 and 14 owners...

Between 10 and 14? Wow, that's a big difference. Is it 10? Or is it 40% more and it's 14? Or how do we know it's not 9?

And suddenly this "faction", which is either 33% of the owners or 50% of the owners, and who shall, I suppose, remain nameless, is suddenly "led" by Michael Jordan.

Even though no one has said a word about this, and we haven't heard a single word from him.

Hey... maybe he went along with them for the 47% or some other items... who knows? But clearly this article is beyond weak, and furthermore, it is patently ridiculous at this point, one day before the end of the lockout, to try and blame it all on Jordan.

So, all this "is he a sellout? Is he not a sellout?" is bogus from the start. If anything makes him a sellout it's just being an owner, period.

Anyways... Jordan deserves better than to be trashed like this, and if this article fades away, and there is never anything more to support it, then you can KNOW, with confidence, that it was just some bogus made up garbage.

blahblahyoutoo
11-05-2011, 06:31 PM
Not surprised but yet surprised. He's an owner now and money is an issue. However, it's still kind of shocking to see him not relate to the players considering he was one.

not shocking at all.
put any current player fighting for more BRI % in the shoes of an owner and he will be clamoring for 50/50 or more towards the owners' side.

Anilyzer
11-05-2011, 07:43 PM
There's a new update to this story!

This just in! Michael Jordan is the Devil!

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/05/report-jordan-will-only-lead-the-charge-against-the-players-away-from-the-table/related/

Yeah, we got no facts, just a few typos and some third or fourth party unnamed sources who are not actually quoted -- but HEY! Some other sources say that if Jordan had dared to say a word at the meeting, the players were ready to bring up the Abe Pollin quote. This from a VERY damaging Tweet by crack-journalist Adrian Wojnarowski.

I don't think it needs to be said that we are all breathlessly waiting for more awesome scoops and breaking stories from the intrepid A.W., aka WojYahooNBA, who is relentlessly covering the NBA lockout. Thanks to Matt Moore and the awesome team of MSNBC investigative reporters for bringing us this incredible story. I smell Peabody Award!!

love this headline on the MSNBC NBA page too, with Jordan out of focus:

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/3032847/ns/sports-nba

Well if we didn't know before, we know now. Jordan is the Devil, this is Jordan's lockout, Jordan is costing the season, and he has definitely, definitely led all those other poor little small market owners astray.

Anilyzer
11-05-2011, 07:47 PM
Here's the most awesome part of Matt Moore's story:

"Oh, the GOAT will screw you, he’s just not going to tell it to your face. After all, he needs you to keep pimping those shoes! Jordan Brand! Woo!"

Gosh. What journalism. Btw, is there any conflict of interest if Paul Allen is a Microsoft owner and MSNBC is a joint venture of Microsoft and NBC? Just wondering. Ok never mind. At least we know now that it is that g-darn "pimp" Jordan, that black-hearted, back-stabbing pimp!!!! And he is also the GOAT. And the devil has Goat's feet. Take off those Air Jordans and show us your hooves you g-darned DEVIL!!!

Go Matt Moore! Yes!! Does it get any better? Really... does it? This is *mwah* wunderbar

ChiSoxJuan
11-05-2011, 07:47 PM
Anyways... Jordan deserves better than to be trashed like this, and if this article fades away, and there is never anything more to support it, then you can KNOW, with confidence, that it was just some bogus made up garbage.
I would like to believe that this is a plant so that if an agreement is struck they'll use MJ as the poster boy who got it done.

MJ & the Buck's Kohl are the two biggest proponents for greatly increased revenue sharing in this CBA. That's all I've ever read about MJ with respect to details & that was centered around his comments about Bogut.

Anilyzer
11-05-2011, 07:50 PM
I'll bet you this story is scrubbed from the internet within 24 hours, just like the Paul Allen rant story was scrubbed. I mean scrubbed, like it was never written or posted.

Which is a shame because it is brilliant actually, in a certain kind of way, which I won't say. It really cheered me up today! Thanks! :)

Anilyzer
11-05-2011, 07:53 PM
I would like to believe that this is a plant so that if an agreement is struck they'll use MJ as the poster boy who got it done.

MJ & the Buck's Kohl are the two biggest proponents for greatly increased revenue sharing in this CBA. That's all I've ever read about MJ with respect to details & that was centered around his comments about Bogut.

Hey, if you want a scapeGOAT for this lockout mess, you KNOW that it is Jordan

1. because he is a backstabbing PIMP (according to Matt Moore)

and

2. because he is the true GOAT

/

Anilyzer
11-05-2011, 08:00 PM
But wait!!

I just realized that Matt Moore posted an article on Oct 1st 2011, saying that Robert Sarver was the most vociferous and forceful of the "hardline" owners! And this was days before we ever even heard of Jordan being a hardliner! This is so confusing...

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/01/robert-sarver-reportedly-even-more-ridiculous-than-previously-thought/

from the article by Matt Moore, which quotes Yahoo Sports:
["Once again, Phoenix Suns owners Robert Sarver was the most vocal proponent of the owner’s case, and he befuddled players by insisting that his wife had asked him to bring back the middle level exception in a designer bag. He’s been a strong advocate for a hard salary cap, and a source said that Sarver told the players in the room that he hadn’t been able to get the return on buying the Suns that he had hoped."]

and this!! By Matt Moore in the same article:

["And if anyone in that negotiating room is in need of a Michael-Jordan-esque “If you can’t afford to run your team, then sell it,” it’s Sarver. You haven’t seen the return on the Suns that you were hoping for? Maybe you should get out of the Suns business. Just an idea. I don’t know, maybe ask your wife."]

Anilyzer
11-05-2011, 08:02 PM
omg I've got a semi. I just realized that I've completely pwned this thread, I haven't done that in so long

PWNED /

ink
11-05-2011, 08:57 PM
omg I've got a semi. I just realized that I've completely pwned this thread, I haven't done that in so long

PWNED /

:eyebrow:

Can't see how.

Tom Stone
11-05-2011, 09:22 PM
No one can defeat Jordan !

Hellcrooner
11-05-2011, 10:28 PM
Anylizer i had you in better consideration , wouldnt have guessed you were one of Jordan Monks.
How dissapointing.

NBA_Starter
11-05-2011, 10:31 PM
Come on MJ!

ink
11-05-2011, 11:34 PM
I guess we'll agree to disagree because it seems you truly don't understand where I'm coming from and what the writer of that article was saying. You keep going back to this "hero" thing for whatever reason. To be clear: I don't look to sports for heroes. My heroes are Malchom X, Richard Pryor, and the chicks in my sigs.

With MJ its as simple to me as this: black guy. came from something to nothing and got ridiculously paid. now a chief adversary of the same young black guys who made him rich trying to get ridiculously paid= sellout. I totally get he's now a business man and the bottom line and all that but I believe he still has a responsibility to those who made him who he is. Call me crazy. I'd would be different if he was at least attempting to be objective but he's leading the charge of unreasonableness for profit players and fans be damned....

Simple as that. Now you can pontificate over the what if's and who would do the same thing and all that. That kind of make believe is great but in reality, as we sit, the biggest name in the history of sports who benefitted the most is doing it so people have a right to call him out on it.

But self-absorbed is all he has ever been. All he has ever cared about is MJ and we've enabled it. Just as we've done with Kobe, Lebron, and whatever other overhyped "superstar".

We've made these guys into way more than they are. They aren't role models. They're just basketball players whose opinion of themselves has been so inflated they have begun to damage the sport that made them. It's unique in pro sports. Most other team sports have athletes who are about the team.

Don't blame MJ for being about whatever benefits himself. That's all he's ever done and he's been consistently rewarded for thinking that way. Just like dozens of other "superstars" including Iverson, McGrady, VC, Kobe, Lebron, Melo, Bosh, Amare.

Why are we surprised that MJ is only interested in himself now? It's become a habit, and it has been fueled by fans.

The answer: stop feeding their absurd egos.

SteBO
11-05-2011, 11:42 PM
But self-absorbed is all he has ever been. All he has ever cared about is MJ and we've enabled it. Just as we've done with Kobe, Lebron, and whatever other overhyped "superstar".

We've made these guys into way more than they are. They aren't role models. They're just basketball players whose opinion of themselves has been so inflated they have begun to damage the sport that made them. It's unique in pro sports. Most other team sports have athletes who are about the team.

Don't blame MJ for being about whatever benefits himself. That's all he's ever done and he's been consistently rewarded for thinking that way. Just like dozens of other "superstars" including Iverson, McGrady, VC, Kobe, Lebron, Melo, Bosh, Amare.

Why are we surprised that MJ is only interested in himself now? It's become a habit, and it has been fueled by fans.

The answer: stop feeding their absurd egos.
Don't blame players for being about whatever benefits them either then. MJ is the last person we should be hearing this from. Period.

ink
11-05-2011, 11:44 PM
Don't blame players for being about whatever benefits them either then. MJ is the last person we should be hearing this from. Period.

I'm talking about the hypocrisy in this thread from those that judge Jordan but pardon the greed from all the current "superstars". Their MO is greed; why be surprised when it surfaces regardless of their role or position in life.

These are often very poorly educated people whose only focus is themselves and their ability to make a fortune. Sad really. Even sadder is that fans supplicate themselves to these people.

Love the game. Be discerning.

ChiSoxJuan
11-05-2011, 11:53 PM
MJ's not a greedy person. If anything MJ is loose with his money but he has so much it's never really hurt him. MJ is self-absorbed, but still charitable. The MJ Foundation does good work, helps a lot of people, & takes in a lot of $. It's probably the best run of any sports athlete. But if MJ wants to do something, no matter how crazy, or how risky it is, no one can talk him out of it. The Barons, Wizards, & of course the Bobcats are great examples of that.

ink
11-05-2011, 11:56 PM
MJ's not a greedy person. If anything MJ is loose with his money but he has so much it's never really hurt him. MJ is self-absorbed, but still charitable. The MJ Foundation does good work, helps a lot of people, & takes in a lot of $. It's probably the best run of any sports athlete. But if MJ wants to do something, no matter how crazy, or how risky it is, no one can talk him out of it. The Barons, Wizards, & of course the Bobcats are great examples of that.

The point is not greed. It's self-interest. As a player he might support getting more money for players. As an owner he supports fixing the broken CBA. His concern is with what benefits himself where he is at the time. Same as any of the other self-absorbed athletes we enable in the NBA.

ChiSoxJuan
11-06-2011, 12:19 AM
You're way off. MJ, Magic, & Bird welcomed challenges. The idea of Magic joing Bird or vice versa was never even approached. These guys wanted to beat each other with the guys around them. MJ never would've joined Dumars in Det, Stockton in Utah, or Barkley in Phx.

The problem with the stars today is they don't welcome that challenge. They want the easy road. I don't blame the NBA. It's a problem with that entire generation and their age group. They would rather buy there way into success than to build it themselves. Again it gets back to that generation thinking they are entitled to something. I think the next generation isn't thinking that way any more. I don't believe Rose is that way. I believe Rose welcomes the challenge, but I could be wrong. He's much younger than those guys. As much as I want Howard to join the Bulls I'm a little dissapointed he plans to leave Orl. I thought he was a guy who wanted to win a championship with the Magic more than anything. Sure they've made mistakes, but those blunders were predicated on looking for quick fixes. The same can be said for the Cavs. You can't win a championship over night. It takes time to get all the right pieces & more often than not the right piece is not a star but a role player. I don't think they or their former teams ever understood that.

ink
11-06-2011, 12:26 AM
You're way off. MJ, Magic, & Bird welcomed challenges. The idea of Magic joing Bird or vice versa was never even approached. These guys wanted to beat each other with the guys around them. MJ never would've joined Dumars in Det, Stockton in Utah, or Barkley in Phx.

You got me wrong. I'm not talking about the players today who run to the other talent to try to win.

I'm talking about the fact that then MJ was a player and stood for players. Now he's an owner and he stands for owners. He basically sees things from where he sits because for him the bottom line is self-interest, just like the other stars.

But in terms of coattail riding? I am 100% in agreement with you. MJ and other stars of that era did not coattail ride like this current crop.


The problem with the stars today is they don't welcome that challenge. They want the easy road. I don't blame the NBA. It's a problem with that entire generation and their age group. They would rather buy there way into success than to build it themselves. Again it gets back to that generation thinking that are entitled to something. I think the next generation isn't thinking that way any more. I don't believe Rose is that way. I believe Rose welcomes the challenge, but I could be wrong. He's much younger than those guys. As much as I want Howard to join the Bulls I'm a little dissapointed he plans to leave Orl. I thought he was a guy who wanted to win a championship with the Magic more than anything. Sure they've made mistakes, but those blunders were predicated on looking for quick fixes. The same can be said for the Cavs. You can't win a championship over night. It takes time to get all the right pieces & more often than not the right piece is not a star but a role player. I don't think they or their former teams ever understood that.

Couldn't agree more. Well said. I hope you understand that this is not what I meant. I'm also hopeful that the next generation is not as self-centred as the players of the 2000s. Here's hoping for a new NBA, maybe not with this CBA but hopefully by the next one.

If I was an owner I'd press for the shortest possible CBA period this time around. They are not getting the deal the league needs and will need to do this all over again in a few years.

Hellcrooner
11-06-2011, 12:29 AM
You got me wrong. I'm not talking about the players today who run to the other talent to try to win.

I'm talking about the fact that then MJ was a player and stood for players. Now he's an owner and he stands for owners. He basically sees things from where he sits because for him the bottom line is self-interest, just like the other stars.

But in terms of coattail riding? I am 100% in agreement with you. MJ and other stars of that era did not coattail ride like this current crop.



Couldn't agree more. Well said. I hope you understand that this is not what I meant. I'm also hopeful that the next generation is not as self-centred as the players of the 2000s. Here's hoping for a new NBA, maybe not with this CBA but hopefully by the next one.

If I was an owner I'd press for the shortest possible CBA period this time around. They are not getting the deal the league needs and will need to do this all over again in a few years.


funny, magic never had to run away because his team was good from the start.
bird ? the same?

Jordan? HE INDEED THREATENED to leave the team in Fa TWICE , had they lost to the lakers in 91 and he could have easily left the bulls.

Drexler? walked to houston
karl m? walked to lakers.
Barkley? forced a trade to suns then walked to rockets
Dr J? forced a trade to Sixers
M Malone? forced his way to join forces with Dr J.

dont act as if this is anything new.

ink
11-06-2011, 12:34 AM
funny, magic never had to run away because his team was good from the start.
bird ? the same?

Jordan? HE INDEED THREATENED to leave the team in Fa TWICE , had they lost to the lakers in 91 and he could have easily left the bulls.

Drexler? walked to houston
karl m? walked to lakers.
Barkley? forced a trade to suns then walked to rockets
Dr J? forced a trade to Sixers
M Malone? forced his way to join forces with Dr J.

dont act as if this is anything new.

What is new is the frequency and the fact that it has become the norm. Even fans accept it as the norm. Some even cry "slavery" when anyone threatens the sacred right to run to join their BFFs. lol.

Hellcrooner
11-06-2011, 12:41 AM
What is new is the frequency and the fact that it has become the norm. Even fans accept it as the norm. Some even cry "slavery" when anyone threatens the sacred right to run to join their BFFs. lol.

and what if is not bout joining a bff but simplyy wanting to go somwhere else.

Example if i was a top player in cavs right now and im a fa and bucks ahd the capspace id like to sign for them cause i like the city and the team best.

what in that scenario?

ink
11-06-2011, 12:48 AM
and what if is not bout joining a bff but simplyy wanting to go somwhere else.

Example if i was a top player in cavs right now and im a fa and bucks ahd the capspace id like to sign for them cause i like the city and the team best.

what in that scenario?

I'm not against free agency at all. In fact, I was fine with Bosh leaving Toronto and if you saw any of my posts about the possibility of the Raptors signing him to the max (from the ASG on, especially) you would have seen that. I was very strongly against resigning Bosh and wanted to see him go as a FA. What I'm against is collusion and players having too much control over the league. The players are not team builders; they are too mercenary and short-sighted for that. I want the control in management's hands since that is their skill set. And I want a CBA that supports them, and allows them to do their jobs without interference from "superstars".

Hellcrooner
11-06-2011, 12:52 AM
I'm not against free agency at all. In fact, I was fine with Bosh leaving Toronto and if you saw any of my posts about the possibility of the Raptors signing him to the max (from the ASG on, especially) you would have seen that. I was very strongly against resigning Bosh and wanted to see him go as a FA. What I'm against is collusion and players having too much control over the league. The players are not team builders; they are too mercenary and short-sighted for that. I want the control in management's hands since that is their skill set. And I want a CBA that supports them, and allows them to do their jobs without interference from "superstars".

the problem is what owners want woudl REMOVE FA ( not on paper but it would in reality) from the league.

Im nto even sure if thats even legal ( check the lawsuit on the mlb in the 70s and how federal judges deemed the cba illegal and UFA had to be allowed).

da ThRONe
11-06-2011, 12:52 AM
They should contract 4 teams on Saturday when the owners meet.

I know of two teams off the Top

Good Bye N.O, & Bobcats ...

The other two, pick out of......... Cav's, Kings, Lac, Minnesota, Bucks, Toronto, Nj,

I know what the toronto & Nj fans are going to say already... Save it!

Why would N.O. go? The reason the team is in bad shape is because of past debt Shinn acquired as an owner. Outside of the past debt the Hornets have been profitable the last few years. Also we are second in new season ticket sells in a lockout year. The league already had several offer for the Hornets the just aren't making any final decisions I'm assuming because of the lockout.

Hellcrooner
11-06-2011, 12:53 AM
btw is still to be proved if the heat/knics way is a way to win titles or not.

remmeber 3 stars only allow you to get some mle and min players and low rookies because of your good record.


they are 0 rings on 1 try for the moment.

no reason to panic to be honest.

ink
11-06-2011, 12:55 AM
the problem is what owners want woudl REMOVE FA ( not on paper but it would in reality) from the league.

Im nto even sure if thats even legal ( check the lawsuit on the mlb in the 70s and how federal judges deemed the cba illegal and UFA had to be allowed).

I don't think removing free agency is an option, or even desired. I think few owners want to see a repeat of the out-of-control free agency of 2010 but that isn't the same as saying they want no free agency.

This CBA is basically about the league regaining some control over itself.

ChiSoxJuan
11-06-2011, 12:59 AM
Produce concrete evidence of MJ threatening to leave as FA you blasphemous heretic you. As ink says, the problem is the RATE at which the collusion of stars is occuring. We are at 10-12 hopeless teams in the NBA. When Paul & Howard leave their teams that will jump to 14. What happens to Mil when Bogut leaves? What are the odd Griffin stays w LAC? You do realize that the new CBA has shorter contracts right? If the system does not slow the rate of collusion of stars than the rate of competitive disparity is going to grow even quicker. We could be looking at 16 hopeless teams in 5 yrs then. We're not that far from the super 10 then are we?

Yunqn
11-06-2011, 01:00 AM
Can you blame Micheal? No matter if he was a player or not the Bobcats are losing money, nobody wants that.

who the **** cares?

its HIS team.. hes the one putting the product out there..

he could had barely afforded it at the time he bought them..
he knew this was a team that had nothing going for them..

and now he expects fans to come and break attendence records and put money in his pocket because he's there?.. in a suit and just sitting?

thats ****ing ridicolous how you find players to be worth less when you was one yourself who lived off the high paying salaries that you were making and now you want everyone else to take home lower checks..

look i grew up a bulls fan & my whole family is..
but **** michael jordan.. his game and his personality are different thinqs.. i could care less about the person.. this is ****ed up.. you would think he would understand out of everyone.. his buisness decisions are horrible.. he's living off his on the court performances and not his off the court i.q..and he needs to come to realization and stop being self centerd.

point is..dont buy something you could barely afford and complain when you lose money when you knew that what you bought had no realistic shot of gaining any type of revenue.. you were bound to lose.. you just want to have control and attention..

Yunqn
11-06-2011, 01:06 AM
Why would N.O. go? The reason the team is in bad shape is because of past debt Shinn acquired as an owner. Outside of the past debt the Hornets have been profitable the last few years. Also we are second in new season ticket sells in a lockout year. The league already had several offer for the Hornets the just aren't making any final decisions I'm assuming because of the lockout.

agreed.. n.o is not the city to lose its team.. IMO char, big drop off, minnesota then cleveland.. n.o is far from there.. you cant wait til a team lose and then say them.. the owner put the team in bad shape..

good or bad shape minnesota,cleveland & char. have bad markets and would NEED a lebron or k.g.. and thats highly unlikely given those teams cant even make roster adjusts to have good enough players around that guys to win a championship smh..

Hellcrooner
11-06-2011, 01:11 AM
agreed.. n.o is not the city to lose its team.. IMO char, big drop off, minnesota then cleveland.. n.o is far from there.. you cant wait til a team lose and then say them.. the owner put the team in bad shape..

good or bad shape minnesota,cleveland & char. have bad markets and would NEED a lebron or k.g.. and thats highly unlikely given those teams cant even make roster adjusts to have good enough players around that guys to win a championship smh..

cavs had good attendance and won money when they had Price, Daugherty, nance, Harper etc.

btw none of them left them in FA ( some of them were traded) and neither of them were Lebron precisely.

same can be said for the wolves of the first 00s


they need to stop using excuses and be patient to build trough the draft.

Hellcrooner
11-06-2011, 01:19 AM
Produce concrete evidence of MJ threatening to leave as FA you blasphemous heretic you. As ink says, the problem is the RATE at which the collusion of stars is occuring. We are at 10-12 hopeless teams in the NBA. When Paul & Howard leave their teams that will jump to 14. What happens to Mil when Bogut leaves? What are the odd Griffin stays w LAC? You do realize that the new CBA has shorter contracts right? If the system does not slow the rate of collusion of stars than the rate of competitive disparity is going to grow even quicker. We could be looking at 16 hopeless teams in 5 yrs then. We're not that far from the super 10 then are we?

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1997-08-13/sports/9708140002_1_bulls-free-agents-allan-houston-scottie-pippen

i cant ocmmit balsphemy since i dont worship any god , nor "goat"

To be more specific, Jrodan was irked bout a posibel Pippen for Kemp Trade and Threatened to leave.

The other time was in 1987 or 1988 , no internet so no link.

ChiSoxJuan
11-06-2011, 01:28 AM
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1997-08-13/sports/9708140002_1_bulls-free-agents-allan-houston-scottie-pippen

That is nothing more than Jordan spelling out his options to the Bulls. The rest is conjecture & the writer even includes "people close to Jordan said he would never leave the Bulls." When JR was preparing to pay MJ $20M he clearly felt there wasn't any team that could exceed that. MJ's answer showed them there was. The Bulls didn't just match it, they exceeded it. End of story.

That doesn't compare at all to what Melo did to Den, Lebron did to Cle, or Bosh did to Tor.

If anything it proves the power of leverage for HOME teams. The current CBA took that leverage away. Bosh & Lebron didn't think twice because they knew they could get the 6th yr in a S&T deal. They knew there was no way Cle & Tor would let them go & get nothing in return. That's what made Cle & Tor surrender their leverage. I've already argued that HOME teams must have real leverage that can't be surrendered. Cle should have been able to go above any max Mia could reach & more yrs. The CBA should not limit the ability for teams to keep the players they draft & develop. It should limits a team's ability to built it's roster through FA & trades. If a player chooses to go elsewhere for far less $ & less yrs, then their team needs to get automatic compensation in return. The NFL, NHL, & MLB all have that.

Hellcrooner
11-06-2011, 01:29 AM
^blah blah, Bulls trade Pippen for Kemp, Jordan would have left, easy as that.

Oh yeah...Knicks had a certain Ewing back then.

Arch Stanton
11-06-2011, 01:34 AM
^blah blah, Bulls trade Pippen for Kemp, Jordan would have left, easy as that.

Oh yeah...Knicks had a certain Ewing back then.

Woulda Coulda Shoulda DIDN'T!

da ThRONe
11-06-2011, 01:35 AM
The only way we will see parity is putting a significant cap on the amount of money each team can pay out in salary. Thus forcing players to go to smaller/mid rev tems to receive market value for their services. The idea that players in their primes are leaving significant money on the table for the privilege to play together is a grave overreaction to what James/Wade/Bosh just did. And if I'm not mistaken they left right around 4 million per season on the table to play in a glamour city in a state with no state taxes.

ChiSoxJuan
11-06-2011, 01:54 AM
^blah blah, Bulls trade Pippen for Kemp, Jordan would have left, easy as that.
Oh yeah...Knicks had a certain Ewing back then.
Pure conjecture. No sources whatsoever to confirm that. The only sources mentioned are the ones closest to Jordan claiming he would never leave the Bulls. Furthermore, even if it were true, he is using the threat of leaving to keep THE CURRENT TEAM together! Did Lebron do that? Did Bosh do that? Did Melo do that? Do you even know what an apples to oranges comparison means?

3ballbomber
11-06-2011, 02:05 AM
^blah blah, Bulls trade Pippen for Kemp, Jordan would have left, easy as that.

Oh yeah...Knicks had a certain Ewing back then.
don't see how this can pass as an argument

ChiSoxJuan
11-06-2011, 02:06 AM
The only way we will see parity is putting a significant cap on the amount of money each team can pay out in salary.
I do not agree with that. I think you need to provide home teams real leverage over teams seeking the player as a FA. They should not be compelled to just surrender that leverage for fear of getting nothing in return. As I've said before the max yrs & $ for a FA should be set in stone. That should be flexible for teams to resign their own.

The ability to sign FA's via exemptions like the MLE should be done through a waiver like system. The weakest teams should have the right to sign these guys first. This is not true FA. It's FA under exemptions. Players should not get full FA access when they are eligible for signing under exemptions.

If you make these two changes alone it becomes a lot harder for contenders to beef up their rosters at the expense of weaker teams. If that is not enough to greatly improve the competitive disparity then there is always the supplemental draft route. Let's tweak it some more around the one-time amnesty & the annual stretch amnesty. When the NHL CBA was signed, the one time amnesty led to a supplemental draft. All of those players were put in the draft and the weakest teams picked first. This is one of the reasons the Hawks were able to rebound so quickly. The same thing can happen in the NBA, & it could happen annually with the stretch amnesty exemption. It just requires that the decision be made before the NBA draft. So the supplemental draft occurs first.

da ThRONe
11-06-2011, 02:32 AM
I do not agree with that. I think you need to provide home teams real leverage over teams seeking the player as a FA. They should not be compelled to just surrender that leverage for fear of getting nothing in return. As I've said before the max yrs & $ for a FA should be set in stone. That should be flexible for teams to resign their own.

The ability to sign FA's via exemptions like the MLE should be done through a waiver like system. The weakest teams should have the right to sign these guys first. This is not true FA. It's FA under exemptions. Players should not get full FA access when they are eligible for signing under exemptions.

If you make these two changes alone it becomes a lot harder for contenders to beef up their rosters at the expense of weaker teams. If that is not enough to greatly improve the competitive disparity then there is always the supplemental draft route. Let's tweak it some more around the one-time amnesty & the annual stretch amnesty. When the NHL CBA was signed, the one time amnesty led to a supplemental draft. All of those players were put in the draft and the weakest teams picked first. This is one of the reasons the Hawks were able to rebound so quickly. The same thing can happen in the NBA, & it could happen annually with the stretch amnesty exemption. It just requires that the decision be made before the NBA draft. So the supplemental draft occurs first.

Nobody would sign off on this. Owners wouldn't want this neither players. Besides after a player plays out his contract he has earned the right to play where ever he wants to.

Anilyzer
11-06-2011, 03:03 AM
Anylizer i had you in better consideration , wouldnt have guessed you were one of Jordan Monks.
How dissapointing.

I'm not a Jordan monk... in fact I've argued (to great derision) that Kobe is superior to Jordan in some ways.

Regardless, MSNBC etc are doing a totally unfair smear campaign on Jordan right now. Wrong is wrong.

Like, HEY there Mr. Owners... Wasn't bad enough that you force this turdally awesome lockout on the NBA and the country, then try to grandstand and jack up the league, blaming the "greed of the players" while we lose a season because you refuse to "only" accept a 6% reduction in overall player salaries...

but then, at the very last minute, when everybody hates the owners and the strike is almost over... You decide to label Jordan as this greedy, backstabbing pimp (language taken directly from the article) who caused the whole greedy lockout in the first place. You try to say that Jordan is some kind of black devil greedy ruthless cutthroat pimp, and that the WHOLE lockout is now magically Jordan's fault, that he's been leading the lockout and the hardline owners all this time.

You try to say that, and YOU FAIL


/

ChiSoxJuan
11-06-2011, 11:21 AM
Kobe is not superior to MJ in any ways. You can not look at Kobe's production in an era where D rules were severely relaxed & claim it compares to MJ. You don't need to compare the rules to see the difference. There is plenty of video of MJ making shots with defenders CLINGING to his body! When has Kobe ever done that or even had to do that? Truth be told His Airness probably never takes flight under the rules in Kobe's era. He wouldn't have to. He took to the air because it was the best way for him to get an open shot then.

I can not believe that fans & players are turning on MJ now that he is showing that same fierce instinct to go for the juglar in these negotiations. For MJ this is has never been about Fisher, Hunter or the players. It's been about the Lakers, the Celtics, & the Heat. He wants his cap space to give him the best odds to secure future talent for as long as possible. If the big wallets want access to that talent they will have to make changes to their current rosters. He would not be making this play if he didn't have majority support with the owners. This has very little to do with MJ being greedy & everything to do with MJ wanting his team to spend less of a % of it's revenue on players & the Big wallets to spend more & since he has control over the ownership right now he is going for the juglar.

Do you really think 63-37 is a shot at the NBAPA? It's a shot at the Big wallets. He's basically telling Stern tripling the shared revenue over 3 yrs is not even close to being enough. If the Big wallets still want a season they are going to have to pay more. A lot more. Only then will MJ lead the ownership to come up & possibly come off the no S&T for tax payers demand.

Big Zo
11-06-2011, 11:30 AM
Kobe is not superior to MJ in any ways. You can not look at Kobe's production in an era where D rules were severely relaxed & claim it compares to MJ. You don't need to compare the rules to see the difference. There is plenty of video of MJ making shots with defenders CLINGING to his body! When has Kobe ever done that or even had to do that? Truth be told His Airness probably never takes flight under the rules in Kobe's era. He wouldn't have to. He took to the air because it was the best way for him to get an open shot then.

I can not believe that fans & players are turning on MJ now that he is showing that same fierce instinct to go for the juglar in these negotiations. For MJ this is has never been about Fisher, Hunter or the players. It's been about the Lakers, the Celtics, & the Heat. He wants his cap space to give him the best odds to secure future talent for as long as possible. If the big wallets want access to that talent they will have to make changes to their current rosters. He would not be making this play if he didn't have majority support with the owners. This has very little to do with MJ being greedy & everything to do with MJ wanting his team to spend less of a % of it's revenue on players & the Big wallets to spend more & since he has control over the ownership right now he is going for the juglar.

Do you really think 63-37 is a shot at the NBAPA? It's a shot at the Big wallets. He's basically telling Stern tripling the shared revenue over 3 yrs is not even close to being enough. If the Big wallets still want a season they are going to have to pay more. A lot more. Only then will MJ lead the ownership to come up & possibly come off the no S&T for tax payers demand.

MJ can suck a giant...

ChiSoxJuan
11-06-2011, 11:34 AM
What fans need to understand is that sure, more often than not MJ drew the foul on the CLING shots. But in that era, whistles were late & refs were more likely to call the foul if the shot went in than if it failed. In Kobe's era, whistles are early. The plays is shut down well before the CLING occurs. That's where we are today & it's one of the reasons the competitive imbalance has grown so wide.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-wojnarowski_nba_labor_talks_110511
As one official said, “He never opened his mouth, not once.”

Sly Guy
11-06-2011, 12:16 PM
a 47-53 split is ridiculous, your asking the players to take an off the top 20% cut in total salaries.

YoungOne
11-06-2011, 12:25 PM
why is the job of the commissioner not time-limited?
Would be great if you can select a new one lets say every 5 years..

Anilyzer
11-07-2011, 01:30 AM
Hey, anybody watching?

Anybody notice that the whole *Jordan is the backstabbing black-devil pimp sellout who is betraying the players and leading the hardline lockout* story just up and vanished like a fart in the wind?

Notice that two days after it was the rage of the Internet, the story is completely gone, nothing to back it up, no one is talking about it and it is just over?

THAT is what you call a complete BS fabrication of a story. This is what it looks like folks. Take a good look, remember.

northsider
11-07-2011, 02:01 AM
Hey, anybody watching?

Anybody notice that the whole *Jordan is the backstabbing black-devil pimp sellout who is betraying the players and leading the hardline lockout* story just up and vanished like a fart in the wind?

Notice that two days after it was the rage of the Internet, the story is completely gone, nothing to back it up, no one is talking about it and it is just over?

THAT is what you call a complete BS fabrication of a story. This is what it looks like folks. Take a good look, remember.

Have to get viewers somehow. I mean what good is telling a story without a juicing it up a little bit.

Anilyzer
11-07-2011, 05:57 AM
Have to get viewers somehow. I mean what good is telling a story without a juicing it up a little bit.

True... and always good advice. But why they gotta trash the name of the biggest legend in the game, just to cover their ***** just a bit. On top of everything else, then they gotta blame MJ. Literally branding MJ a pimp. Literally, right there in the article. MJ.

So now it's those greedy, igorant, selfish players, and MJ the pimp. Nice.

Honestly, the lockout story is so weird, maybe it doesn't need to be spiced up.

ink
11-07-2011, 10:47 AM
The story was an obvious distortion like so many things about this lockout and in the media in general. All this "pimp", "slave", blahblah, stuff we could do without. It's stupid.

Jordan is just acting out of self-interest in his new role just like everyone in this league would do.

Da Knicks
11-07-2011, 11:25 AM
jordan = douche

Heediot
11-07-2011, 02:23 PM
Those calling MJ a hypocrite (players/fans) would do the same thing if they were in his shoes. Life is paradoxical, inconsistent and contradictory. You have to do whats best according to circumstance rather than having a fixed mindset. Sometimes what's right and wrong isn't clear so you gotta go with what you think is right according to the situation.

Heediot
11-07-2011, 02:28 PM
The story was an obvious distortion like so many things about this lockout and in the media in general. All this "pimp", "slave", blahblah, stuff we could do without. It's stupid.

Jordan is just acting out of self-interest in his new role just like everyone in this league would do.

Exactly. He's probably being more consistent than people think that being ---he's concerned with how he benefits.

Tony_Starks
11-07-2011, 02:40 PM
Hey, anybody watching?

Anybody notice that the whole *Jordan is the backstabbing black-devil pimp sellout who is betraying the players and leading the hardline lockout* story just up and vanished like a fart in the wind?

Notice that two days after it was the rage of the Internet, the story is completely gone, nothing to back it up, no one is talking about it and it is just over?

THAT is what you call a complete BS fabrication of a story. This is what it looks like folks. Take a good look, remember.


They just had a few player tweets yesterday saying that they weren't buying J's anymore and saying he was a snake.

Also Im not sure what search engine you're using but the Jordan is a sellout story is still very much around and has not vanished. Sorry, I know thats your idol and all......


http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/Michael-Jordan-siding-with-David-Stern-in-NBA-lockout-a-selfish-betrayal-110411

smith&wesson
11-07-2011, 02:55 PM
How is jordan a sell out ? is he a player ? no! he is an owner and what do you expect him to do AS AN OWNER ? who cares what he stood up for when he was a player. he isnt a player any more now is he?

ichitownclowni
11-07-2011, 02:56 PM
Lol I love that people can still hate after 20 yrs

smith&wesson
11-07-2011, 02:56 PM
The story was an obvious distortion like so many things about this lockout and in the media in general. All this "pimp", "slave", blahblah, stuff we could do without. It's stupid.

Jordan is just acting out of self-interest in his new role just like everyone in this league would do.

exactly! what do we expect ? for him to take his tie off and go stand with the nbpa ? hahaha

SteBO
11-07-2011, 03:01 PM
MJ, how about putting a competitive team on the court?

nate2usmc
11-07-2011, 03:12 PM
MJ, how about putting a competitive team on the court?

Hello?! Bismack Biyombo is the answer to the Bobcats woes duhhh :laugh2:

smith&wesson
11-07-2011, 03:19 PM
MJ, how about putting a competitive team on the court?

this cba deal will effect how gm's and owners are able to contrust rosters. maybe thats what he is trying to do ? after all he does represent the "small market owner".

ChiSoxJuan
11-07-2011, 03:21 PM
http://ebonyreport.blogspot.com/2010/03/michael-jordan-invested-220-million-in.html
I'd like to remind some of you that MJ paid $220M for controlling interests in the Bobcats. Perhaps now you have a better perspective for why he wants a deal that can grow his profits.

To paint a guy as selfish after making that kind of commitment to the Bobcats mainly because of his hometown allegiance is dumb.

Tony_Starks
11-07-2011, 03:27 PM
MJ, how about putting a competitive team on the court?


Man! How ironic is it that the same guy that drafted Kwame Brown and Adam Morrison in the same lifetime is complaining about losing money and not being able to compete? Thats like George Bush compaining about gas prices!!

smith&wesson
11-07-2011, 04:02 PM
http://ebonyreport.blogspot.com/2010/03/michael-jordan-invested-220-million-in.html
I'd like to remind some of you that MJ paid $220M for controlling interests in the Bobcats. Perhaps now you have a better perspective for why he wants a deal that can grow his profits.

To paint a guy as selfish after making that kind of commitment to the Bobcats mainly because of his hometown allegiance is dumb.

this!

Anilyzer
11-07-2011, 04:22 PM
They just had a few player tweets yesterday saying that they weren't buying J's anymore and saying he was a snake.

Also Im not sure what search engine you're using but the Jordan is a sellout story is still very much around and has not vanished. Sorry, I know thats your idol and all......


http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/Michael-Jordan-siding-with-David-Stern-in-NBA-lockout-a-selfish-betrayal-110411

Oh, some player Tweets about how they won't buy MJ shoes anymore. Maybe the read the article! And the new article is just an opinion piece, with no facts, nothing.

I mean, let's see an interview with Jordan talking like Herman Cain or something, saying the players can go suck it or whatever. Something. Some kind of facts... otherwise, the only fact is that Jordan is one of the 30 owners.

end of story

Tony_Starks
11-07-2011, 04:25 PM
Oh, some player Tweets about how they won't buy MJ shoes anymore. Maybe the read the article! And the new article is just an opinion piece, with no facts, nothing.

I mean, let's see an interview with Jordan talking like Herman Cain or something, saying the players can go suck it or whatever. Something. Some kind of facts... otherwise, the only fact is that Jordan is one of the 30 owners.

end of story


I seriously doubt you will see that, so I guess you're perception is safe.

He has however been and record speaking about how the entire system needs to change and that the small market teams can't win and was subsequently fined for it. That is fact.

ChiSoxJuan
11-07-2011, 05:16 PM
He didn't say that. He talked about Bogut & MIL's ability to keep him. Nothing more. The league fined him specifically for talking about Bogut. No team can talk about any single player during the lockout.

Tony_Starks
11-07-2011, 05:38 PM
He didn't say that. He talked about Bogut & MIL's ability to keep him. Nothing more. The league fined him specifically for talking about Bogut. No team can talk about any single player during the lockout.







Jordan, a six-time NBA champion and 14-time All Star as a player, broke league rules which prohibit the discussion of players or labor negotiations during the lockout in an interview with Australian newspaper The Herald Sun last month.

The Hall of Famer described the current situation as "broken" and called for revenue to be shared more evenly between the NBA's 30 franchises. In addition, the 48-year-old also commented on Milwaukee Bucks center Andrew Bogut.

"The model we've been operating under is broken," Jordan told The Herald Sun in August. "We have 22 or 23 teams losing money, I think we have got to come to some kind of understanding in this partnership that we have to realign.

"I know the owners are not going to move off what we feel is very necessary for us to get a deal in place where we can co-exist as partners. We need a lot of financial support throughout the league as well as revenue sharing to keep this business afloat.


I ask you, if that isn't a hard stance, what in the world is?


http://edition.cnn.com/2011/09/13/sport/nba-michael-jordan/index.html

ChiSoxJuan
11-07-2011, 06:05 PM
Look at what he wrote. Is he talking about a partnership with the players or OTHER owners? It sure sounds like other owners especially when referring to revenue sharing. Anyways he was not fined for that. Stern came out & said that owners are forbidden to talk about individual players.

Anilyzer
11-08-2011, 02:41 AM
Jordan, a six-time NBA champion and 14-time All Star as a player, broke league rules which prohibit the discussion of players or labor negotiations during the lockout in an interview with Australian newspaper The Herald Sun last month.

The Hall of Famer described the current situation as "broken" and called for revenue to be shared more evenly between the NBA's 30 franchises. In addition, the 48-year-old also commented on Milwaukee Bucks center Andrew Bogut.

"The model we've been operating under is broken," Jordan told The Herald Sun in August. "We have 22 or 23 teams losing money, I think we have got to come to some kind of understanding in this partnership that we have to realign.

"I know the owners are not going to move off what we feel is very necessary for us to get a deal in place where we can co-exist as partners. We need a lot of financial support throughout the league as well as revenue sharing to keep this business afloat.


I ask you, if that isn't a hard stance, what in the world is?


http://edition.cnn.com/2011/09/13/sport/nba-michael-jordan/index.html


It sounds like he is saying "we the owners", kind of describing what I'm sure must've been discussed in league meetings before the strike. The owners' stance, the owners' concerns, etc. I mean, you're Michael Jordan, the league has locked out all the players--"what's going on, MJ?"

"we feel it's necessary, etc etc"

Right? There's nothing in that to say that he is one of the extreme "hardline" owners, and certainly not to say that he is the LEADER of the hardline owners, or that he was pushing for a 10%-20% reduction of BRI for players (to somewhere between 37% and 47%).

Everyone knows who the "hardline" extreme owners are, they were right out front when this started. No doubt their PR firms pulled them back, realizing how bad this all starts to look.

But, that IS the most substantial thing I've read about MJ and strike anywhere on the Internet.