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Kevj77
11-04-2011, 12:11 AM
If this happen I don't see how there will be a season. I thought the players were still waiting on a ruling from the NLRB.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7185628/nba-players-working-decertification-sources-say

beasted86
11-04-2011, 12:36 AM
That is a long drawn out process nobody wants to see happen... if it does, then that means players have a full intention of missing the whole season.

But in the end they would probably win the anti-trust case and the lockout would be lifted... but what point would there be losing a whole year's salary that can't be made up over the next couple year's CBA?

Some might say it's being greedy, but in truth it would show that players aren't just negotiating in their own self interest, it would show that they really ARE thinking about future players and their career instead of just themselves.

GodsSon
11-04-2011, 12:58 AM
Are the players really this stupid? It's obviously a threat to try and get the owners to move up to 52%

Anilyzer
11-04-2011, 02:07 AM
Bam. Do it. Do it now.

kblo247
11-04-2011, 02:27 AM
I'll lmao if the owners don't bend above 50 and the players decertify. There would be no cap and the owners would be ****ed, and anti trust laws will cause a judge to rule in favor of ending the lockout since it would be illegal without a union in place (as would salary caps, RFA, luxury taxes, burd rights, and revenue sharing).

You think big markets rule now, well you ain't seen nothing yet. And you better understand how much more players like Kobe, LeBron, and so on would be rewarded for their drawing ability since the league would have to give them a cut for their likeness, as opposed to them relying on endorsements to make up the money they are short changed on

abe_froman
11-04-2011, 02:32 AM
I'll lmao if the owners don't bend above 50 and the players decertify. There would be no cap and the owners would be ****ed, and anti trust laws will cause a judge to rule in favor of ending the lockout since it would be illegal without a union in place (as would salary caps, RFA, luxury taxes, burd rights, and revenue sharing).

You think big markets rule now, well you ain't seen nothing yet. And you better understand how much more players like Kobe, LeBron, and so on would be rewarded for their drawing ability since the league would have to give them a cut for their likeness, as opposed to them relying on endorsements to make up the money they are short changed on

they'd obviously recertify before being allowed to come back

kblo247
11-04-2011, 02:51 AM
They aren't the NFL players. The main players generate far more than the NFL or MLB guys do. The roster sizes as a matter of fact show that the NBA is the league where one guy impacts the game the most on both ends on the floor and off the court for teams bank accounts. If they decertify and a judge declares the lockout illegal, the stars have no reason to return to a union. The agents would advise them not to in a heartbeat because in actuality the CBA really hurts superstars and helps the average guys as it limits what they make.

utl768
11-04-2011, 03:20 AM
if this happens u can kiss this season goodbye and half of next yrs

players have no leverage here, there gonna have to cave eventually and mine as well just do it already

Sactown
11-04-2011, 03:23 AM
Yep, this is def going to make the NBA look like a joke ><

LAKERS 24/7
11-04-2011, 03:28 AM
Hopefully they're bluffing...

I don't want to lose the season. Accept the 50/50.

marlinsfan24
11-04-2011, 03:34 AM
I'll lmao if the owners don't bend above 50 and the players decertify. There would be no cap and the owners would be ****ed, and anti trust laws will cause a judge to rule in favor of ending the lockout since it would be illegal without a union in place (as would salary caps, RFA, luxury taxes, burd rights, and revenue sharing).

You think big markets rule now, well you ain't seen nothing yet. And you better understand how much more players like Kobe, LeBron, and so on would be rewarded for their drawing ability since the league would have to give them a cut for their likeness, as opposed to them relying on endorsements to make up the money they are short changed on

I have not heard about this before, but as Heat fan, I sure do hope you're right. Think about how many players would be lining up to sign with the Heat after Arison's strong words against the smaller market owners.

fendera7x
11-04-2011, 12:15 PM
The players have made every concession during negotiations. They're bending to all the owners demands, and it's a shame that it's gotten to this point. They've already dropped 5% from their last deal, and the owners should just be happy with that. On top of most likely cheaper, shorter max deals and MLE's, very high luxury taxes, the amnesty clause, and all the other provisions they're jamming down the players throats.

DenButsu
11-04-2011, 12:20 PM
See you next fall, NBA ball. :sigh:

VillaMaravilla
11-04-2011, 12:36 PM
I'll lmao if the owners don't bend above 50 and the players decertify. There would be no cap and the owners would be ****ed, and anti trust laws will cause a judge to rule in favor of ending the lockout since it would be illegal without a union in place (as would salary caps, RFA, luxury taxes, burd rights, and revenue sharing).

You think big markets rule now, well you ain't seen nothing yet. And you better understand how much more players like Kobe, LeBron, and so on would be rewarded for their drawing ability since the league would have to give them a cut for their likeness, as opposed to them relying on endorsements to make up the money they are short changed on

the problem is this would drag out so long like one other poster said kiss this season goodbye and probably half of the other, with no NBA for almost 2 years the damage would be huge to the league its a lose a lose for both owners and players imo

VillaMaravilla
11-04-2011, 12:38 PM
I have not heard about this before, but as Heat fan, I sure do hope you're right. Think about how many players would be lining up to sign with the Heat after Arison's strong words against the smaller market owners.

not only the heat count the lakers, and ofcourse my Knicks with Jimmy Dolan never being shy of opening up his checkbook the biggest winners if theres no cap would probably be New York

nate2usmc
11-04-2011, 12:39 PM
They aren't the NFL players. The main players generate far more than the NFL or MLB guys do. The roster sizes as a matter of fact show that the NBA is the league where one guy impacts the game the most on both ends on the floor and off the court for teams bank accounts. If they decertify and a judge declares the lockout illegal, the stars have no reason to return to a union. The agents would advise them not to in a heartbeat because in actuality the CBA really hurts superstars and helps the average guys as it limits what they make.

Ok lets say they decertify and they dont go to the NBA, which country is gonna take all of em and pay them salaries comparative to the NBA??????? China will probably be a distant second.

VillaMaravilla
11-04-2011, 12:44 PM
Ok lets say they decertify and they dont go to the NBA, which country is gonna take all of em and pay them salaries comparative to the NBA??????? China will probably be a distant second.

Spain pay pretty decent money, basketball is big over there

beasted86
11-04-2011, 12:52 PM
The players have made every concession during negotiations. They're bending to all the owners demands, and it's a shame that it's gotten to this point. They've already dropped 5% from their last deal, and the owners should just be happy with that. On top of most likely cheaper, shorter max deals and MLE's, very high luxury taxes, the amnesty clause, and all the other provisions they're jamming down the players throats.

I'm sure there are a number of players and agents feeding out the message of when is enough enough? because the givebacks have been historic already.

We'll see whether that 'number of players' is a majority or minority in the next couple days if there is no progress made in the scheduled bargaining sessions over the weekend.

PhillyFaninLA
11-04-2011, 12:55 PM
They should have decertified on July 1.

sep11ie
11-04-2011, 12:57 PM
I have not heard about this before, but as Heat fan, I sure do hope you're right. Think about how many players would be lining up to sign with the Heat after Arison's strong words against the smaller market owners.

Yea, competition sucks...

fendera7x
11-04-2011, 01:06 PM
I'm sure there are a number of players and agents feeding out the message of when is enough enough? because the givebacks have been historic already.

We'll see whether that 'number of players' is a majority or minority in the next couple days if there is no progress made in the scheduled bargaining sessions over the weekend.

I've never seen labor negotiations be so one sided, and the majority of owners have no plans on budging. They do not have much to lose. They have they're other businesses and interests outside of the NBA, and that's the way they are treating this lockout.

I feel bad for the players at this point because I believe most genuinely just want to play basketball again and get back to work, but I don't blame them for not reaching an agreement to this point. They will be getting screwed for the entire length of the deal.

They've given in to everything, aside from a hard cap, so the owners should make the final move. Let the players keep 51.5%, and stop being so greedy. If you don't want to own an NBA team and take on the normal risks of owning a business, then step aside. There's other people out there with the means and desire to own a team.

nate2usmc
11-04-2011, 01:12 PM
Spain pay pretty decent money, basketball is big over there

I'm sure it is but look at the economic situation in Europe...not too promising compared to the US.

beliges
11-04-2011, 01:33 PM
I've never seen labor negotiations be so one sided, and the majority of owners have no plans on budging. They do not have much to lose. They have they're other businesses and interests outside of the NBA, and that's the way they are treating this lockout.

I feel bad for the players at this point because I believe most genuinely just want to play basketball again and get back to work, but I don't blame them for not reaching an agreement to this point. They will be getting screwed for the entire length of the deal.

They've given in to everything, aside from a hard cap, so the owners should make the final move. Let the players keep 51.5%, and stop being so greedy. If you don't want to own an NBA team and take on the normal risks of owning a business, then step aside. There's other people out there with the means and desire to own a team.

How can you possibly feel bad for the players? You do realize that these players make guaranteed money for the contracts they sign for right? And on top of that guaranteed money they want to be given the majority of all basketball revenue that the owners make? How is that fair? The owners put up all the money and capital to run a franchise, to pay these players millions on their contracts and you mean to tell me they are not even allowed to split all of their profits with their players? The players are not the ones to feel bad for. They are being paid more than any other professional American sport pays their players and they have the most player-friendly franchises in any professional sport. As soon as the players decide to evenly and fairly split all basketball profits 50/50 with the owners, we can have basketball again.

DLeeicious
11-04-2011, 01:36 PM
If I'm the players I am snap decertifying. **** the owners, they have had all the leverage so far, you gotta flip that **** - topsy turvy those mother ****ers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URtQAa3Y-ns).

As a fan it sucks but I would back it 100% just out of spite for the owners. The most annoying thing I read this whole time was after the last meeting when Stern put out a statement something like "Just to clarify we were at 50% today but we are actually at 47%". A total slap in the face after 50% didn't cut it he tried to make them seem foolish for passing because they were so generous that day that they "gave" an extra 3%.

DLeeicious
11-04-2011, 01:44 PM
How can you possibly feel bad for the players? You do realize that these players make guaranteed money for the contracts they sign for right? And on top of that guaranteed money they want to be given the majority of all basketball revenue that the owners make? How is that fair? The owners put up all the money and capital to run a franchise, to pay these players millions on their contracts and you mean to tell me they are not even allowed to split all of their profits with their players? The players are not the ones to feel bad for. They are being paid more than any other professional American sport pays their players and they have the most player-friendly franchises in any professional sport. As soon as the players decide to evenly and fairly split all basketball profits 50/50 with the owners, we can have basketball again.


That's what the owners signed up for. No one held a gun to their head and said "YOU HAVE TO BUY THIS TEAM OR ELSE!". When they bought their teams they knew the terms of the CBA, if they didn't like everything they shouldn't have bought the team. It's the attitude of "We will make the players give everything back to us to force a profit for our bad bet we bought" that drives me nuts. If small market teams can't make a buck then they shouldn't exist, the fact that they do isn't the players fault it's stemmed from the owners greed at some point for making a -EV decision of starting said franchise.

Do I feel sorry for the NBA players and their financial situations? Of course not. Do I think it's fair that they have to give up everything? Of course not.

beliges
11-04-2011, 02:25 PM
That's what the owners signed up for. No one held a gun to their head and said "YOU HAVE TO BUY THIS TEAM OR ELSE!". When they bought their teams they knew the terms of the CBA, if they didn't like everything they shouldn't have bought the team. It's the attitude of "We will make the players give everything back to us to force a profit for our bad bet we bought" that drives me nuts. If small market teams can't make a buck then they shouldn't exist, the fact that they do isn't the players fault it's stemmed from the owners greed at some point for making a -EV decision of starting said franchise.

Do I feel sorry for the NBA players and their financial situations? Of course not. Do I think it's fair that they have to give up everything? Of course not.

True thats what the owners signed up for but those were different times. Furthermore, the owners are the owners and the players knew this when they signed their contracts. The owners have all the right to decide how they want to divide their own money. And the players knew what they were signing up for. They knew they are not gonna be the boss. They knew they had to answer to their owner. And sorry, if theres a group of people that get to decide how to divide the revenue its gonna be the ones that invested the capitlal to run the team. Thats what it means to be the boss. The players are more than welcome to put up billions of their own dollars and start a team so they can call the shots. But so long as the players are only players and the owners are the owners, they will be calling the shots and the players can either agree or they can play elsewhere. Again, I would not be all for an agreement which would be unfair to the players. But the fact that these players are already making guaranteed money with their lucrative contracts and the fact that the owners want to split the profits 50/50 shows me that this is a deal which is beyond fair for the players. Its not like theyre getting screwed in this deal. The way things are now, teh owners are getting screwed. Sorry but 50/50 is beyond fair taking into consideration all the other benefits the players enjoy on behalf of the owners.

DLeeicious
11-04-2011, 02:44 PM
True thats what the owners signed up for but those were different times. Furthermore, the owners are the owners and the players knew this when they signed their contracts. The owners have all the right to decide how they want to divide their own money. And the players knew what they were signing up for. They knew they are not gonna be the boss. They knew they had to answer to their owner. And sorry, if theres a group of people that get to decide how to divide the revenue its gonna be the ones that invested the capitlal to run the team. Thats what it means to be the boss. The players are more than welcome to put up billions of their own dollars and start a team so they can call the shots. But so long as the players are only players and the owners are the owners, they will be calling the shots and the players can either agree or they can play elsewhere. Again, I would not be all for an agreement which would be unfair to the players. But the fact that these players are already making guaranteed money with their lucrative contracts and the fact that the owners want to split the profits 50/50 shows me that this is a deal which is beyond fair for the players. Its not like theyre getting screwed in this deal. The way things are now, teh owners are getting screwed. Sorry but 50/50 is beyond fair taking into consideration all the other benefits the players enjoy on behalf of the owners.

Yeah but the owners depend on the players just as much as the players depend on the owners. Without both there is no league. If the players didn't give back in all other areas to this point a 50/50 split would probably be great for both sides.

Again, I don't feel sorry for the players they will be fine no matter what, I just find it ****** that they are the ones giving up everything and it's still not enough.

beliges
11-04-2011, 02:51 PM
Yeah but the owners depend on the players just as much as the players depend on the owners. Without both there is no league. If the players didn't give back in all other areas to this point a 50/50 split would probably be great for both sides.

Again, I don't feel sorry for the players they will be fine no matter what, I just find it ****** that they are the ones giving up everything and it's still not enough.

The owners are businessmen. If it wasnt for the owners funding the league there would be no multi million dollar contracts for these players, no endorsement deals, no playing basketball on national television, and no mass media exposure. If it wasnt for the owners, the players would not be able to make half the money they do now and 95% of the players in the league now would be unheard of to the American population.

And what exactly have the players given back at this point? If this deal was one sided in favor of the owners i would be the first one to side with the players. But nothing about this deal is unfair. Again, let me remind you that the players have the ability to compete for as lucrative a contract as any team is willing to pay them. There are no real restrictions on this aspect. So, while the players are getting paid what they sign for they want to get the majority of all basketball revenue on top of that? That is not fair. Without the owners there is no league and without the players the owners dont make as much. Both sides need each other so if any deal is fair it would be 50/50. Without the league, the majority of these players would be on the street or in jail. Most of them are uneducated individuals who never had the opportunity to succeed in life in a legitimate way. Without the players, the owners would go after other business ventures and still make their money.

fendera7x
11-04-2011, 02:52 PM
How can you possibly feel bad for the players? You do realize that these players make guaranteed money for the contracts they sign for right? And on top of that guaranteed money they want to be given the majority of all basketball revenue that the owners make? How is that fair? The owners put up all the money and capital to run a franchise, to pay these players millions on their contracts and you mean to tell me they are not even allowed to split all of their profits with their players? The players are not the ones to feel bad for. They are being paid more than any other professional American sport pays their players and they have the most player-friendly franchises in any professional sport. As soon as the players decide to evenly and fairly split all basketball profits 50/50 with the owners, we can have basketball again.

1) Feel bad was the wrong choice of words, but all they are looking for at this point is a fair deal. Young players are moving back home w/ parents, players like McGee are stating most just want to get back to work. They just want a fair deal, and the owners are not allowing that. If they want a 50/50 split then fine. They should quit their complaining, and keep the salary cap system the same and consider it a won battle that they are now on even playing fields. They are trying to win every tiny battle right now, and if you're okay with the way they are handling negotiations then be happy without the 2011-12 season.

2) they absolutely don't make the most out of any sport. the ALREADY ESTABLISHED limit on max contracts in the previous CBA doesnt allow that to happen. MLB superstars make way more than NBA stars. A-rod makes twice as much as LeBron and they are equivalent stars in their respective leagues.

3) Hockey is just bouncing back from their lockout years ago, and the NBA arguably had their best and most popular season in the 2000's. This season was primed to be even better, with more increased ratings and attendance. This will obviously increase revenue in ticket sales, tv deals, advertising, sponsorship deals, marketing ventures, etc. If they lose this season, they are not only not going to build on this season's success but also regress as the 4th most watched sport in america when they do start to play...by a lot. The owners are going to be digging themselves out of a big hole if they miss this season.

beliges
11-04-2011, 02:57 PM
1) Feel bad was the wrong choice of words, but all they are looking for at this point is a fair deal. Young players are moving back home w/ parents, players like McGee are stating most just want to get back to work. They just want a fair deal, and the owners are not allowing that. If they want a 50/50 split then fine. They should quit their complaining, and keep the salary cap system the same and consider it a won battle that they are now on even playing fields. They are trying to win every tiny battle right now, and if you're okay with the way they are handling negotiations then be happy without the 2011-12 season.

2) they absolutely don't make the most out of any sport. the ALREADY ESTABLISHED limit on max contracts in the previous CBA doesnt allow that to happen. MLB superstars make way more than NBA stars. A-rod makes twice as much as LeBron and they are equivalent stars in their respective leagues.

3) Hockey is just bouncing back from their lockout years ago, and the NBA arguably had their best and most popular season in the 2000's. This season was primed to be even better, with more increased ratings and attendance. This will obviously increase revenue in ticket sales, tv deals, advertising, sponsorship deals, marketing ventures, etc. If they lose this season, they are not only not going to build on this season's success but also regress as the 4th most watched sport in america when they do start to play...by a lot. The owners are going to be digging themselves out of a big hole if they miss this season.

NBA players on average make more money than any other professional American sport including baseball. Yes there are certain baseball players like A Rod who make more than the majority of NBA players, but on average, the individual NBA player is making more than any other professional athlete in this country.

Furthermore, A Rod is a veteran who has been great for over a decade and is a champion. Lebron has not even been in the league for a decade, has never won a title and one day he will get as lucrative a deal as A Rod got. Look at Kobe, he has signed to make over $30million/year for the next 3 years. Thats a special case in this league obviously but again, the average player in the NBA makes substantially more money just on contract than any other athlete. Furthermore, Im not sure how baseball or the NFL split their overall revenue but Im willing to bet that its more close to a 50/50 split than the NBA has ever been.

beasted86
11-04-2011, 03:06 PM
NBA players on average make more money than any other professional American sport including baseball. Yes there are certain baseball players like A Rod who make more than the majority of NBA players, but on average, the individual NBA player is making more than any other professional athlete in this country.
That's also because they earn more per player. Revenue/players per league ratio, the NBA is the highest by a large margin. NFL has $9 billion/1500 players, MLB $7.2 billion/1200 players, and NHL $3 billion/690 players.


Furthermore, A Rod is a veteran who has been great for over a decade and is a champion. Lebron has not even been in the league for a decade, has never won a title and one day he will get as lucrative a deal as A Rod got. Look at Kobe, he has signed to make over $30million/year for the next 3 years. Thats a special case in this league obviously but again, the average player in the NBA makes substantially more money just on contract than any other athlete. Furthermore, Im not sure how baseball or the NFL split their overall revenue but Im willing to bet that its more close to a 50/50 split than the NBA has ever been.

Okay, just stop it. You don't have to make a fool of yourself with the LeBron hate just to make a point. A-Rod was overpaid long before he ever won anything. Aside from that LeBron doesn't even make the max and is clearly underpaid in regards to salary vs. revenue brought in.

beliges
11-04-2011, 03:12 PM
That's also because they earn more per player. Revenue/players per league ratio, the NBA is the highest by a large margin. NFL has $9 billion/1500 players, MLB $7.2 billion/1200 players, and NHL $3 billion/690 players.



Okay, just stop it. You don't have to make a fool of yourself with the LeBron hate just to make a point. A-Rod was overpaid long before he ever won anything. Aside from that LeBron doesn't even make the max and is clearly underpaid in regards to salary vs. revenue brought in.

Lebron is in his second contract. Its not about hating on Lebron. As I stated earlier, he will get paid the $20-30 million eventually as his career winds down. Thats how it works. But to tell me he deserves as much as A Rod makes is silly since A-Rod has been doing it for over a decade and has won championships. Many people consider A Rod to be one of the greatest baseball players of all time. So no, its not about hating on Lebron. Lebron does not have the status as an all time NBA player as A Rod does as an all time MLB player. So no, Lebron does not deserve as much as A Rod. Maybe one day he will, but for now, he gets paid what he can get a franchise to pay him. Kobe never earned $30million/year for his career. Right now, on the last leg of his career, when he is no longer in his prime he is earning $30+million/year. Thats how it works. A Rod did not get a gigantic contract during his first few years in the league.

And as I stated above, NBA players on average make more money than any other professional sports league in this country. That is an absolute fact.

fendera7x
11-04-2011, 03:19 PM
NBA players on average make more money than any other professional American sport including baseball. Yes there are certain baseball players like A Rod who make more than the majority of NBA players, but on average, the individual NBA player is making more than any other professional athlete in this country.


The only reason average salaries are so high in the NBA is because NBA owners dish money out like candy to below average players...once again their fault. Who forced the Nets to pay travis outlaw 5 yr/35 Mil? drew gooden to a 5yr/32 mil? darko to a 4/$20? amir johnson to a 5/34 mil? channing frye to a 5/$30 mil? joe johnsons (though not a mediocre player) monster deal... that was just last offseason, and I don't feel like digging further back. It's crazy what owners are giving these types of players, who clearly don't deserve it.

They're wild, careless spending is on the owner's shoulders, and now they are trying to use this new CBA deal to rectify their past mistakes. It's terrible. Average salaries are high because they're setting players market values higher than they deserve to be because of these deals. They're fighting for a lower MLE so they aren't "forced" to pay jarred jeffries 30 mil? They shouldn't need a rule in place to tell them not to spend that much on below average role players...

also not trying to get in the who gets paid more argument, but i'd be willing to bet theres many more $100 mil contracts in MLB than NBA. We'll see what CJ Wilson gets in the open market..

beasted86
11-04-2011, 03:21 PM
Lebron is in his second contract. Its not about hating on Lebron. As I stated earlier, he will get paid the $20-30 million eventually as his career winds down. Thats how it works. But to tell me he deserves as much as A Rod makes is silly since A-Rod has been doing it for over a decade and has won championships. Many people consider A Rod to be one of the greatest baseball players of all time. So no, its not about hating on Lebron. Lebron does not have the status as an all time NBA player as A Rod does as an all time MLB player. So no, Lebron does not deserve as much as A Rod. Maybe one day he will, but for now, he gets paid what he can get a franchise to pay him. Kobe never earned $30million/year for his career. Right now, on the last leg of his career, when he is no longer in his prime he is earning $30+million/year. Thats how it works. A Rod did not get a gigantic contract during his first few years in the league.

And as I stated above, NBA players on average make more money than any other professional sports league in this country. That is an absolute fact.

Your entire logic is really trashed.

Kobe isn't worth $30M when he's 35... he was probably worth that 3-4 years ago. A-Rod is not worth his contract right now. Right now LeBron is underpaid severely at $14.5M in regards to the revenue he generates.

Players should earn their proper value for what revenue they are generating at this very moment... not backloaded to the end of their career when they are overpaid and crippling a teams' finances. That's EXACTLY what's wrong with the league. Big contracts to old players who aren't worth it and become immovable and/or salary dumps to small market teams who couldn't attract big name free agents, so instead opted for overpaid talent as their only resort to improving the team.

Slug3
11-04-2011, 03:23 PM
Lebron is in his second contract. Its not about hating on Lebron. As I stated earlier, he will get paid the $20-30 million eventually as his career winds down. Thats how it works. But to tell me he deserves as much as A Rod makes is silly since A-Rod has been doing it for over a decade and has won championships. Many people consider A Rod to be one of the greatest baseball players of all time. So no, its not about hating on Lebron. Lebron does not have the status as an all time NBA player as A Rod does as an all time MLB player. So no, Lebron does not deserve as much as A Rod. Maybe one day he will, but for now, he gets paid what he can get a franchise to pay him. Kobe never earned $30million/year for his career. Right now, on the last leg of his career, when he is no longer in his prime he is earning $30+million/year. Thats how it works. A Rod did not get a gigantic contract during his first few years in the league.

And as I stated above, NBA players on average make more money than any other professional sports league in this country. That is an absolute fact.

Doesnt A Rod have like one Ring? Why are you acting like he has a handful of these in his career? Before he won that ring I swear everyone was calling him a choker in the post season.

and you should get paid your big money in your prime when you are at your best, not at the end of your career where you are a has been and would just take up salary on a team. I didnt see anyone last year offering Shaq 20 million to play cause he has done so much in his career.

beliges
11-04-2011, 03:46 PM
Doesnt A Rod have like one Ring? Why are you acting like he has a handful of these in his career? Before he won that ring I swear everyone was calling him a choker in the post season.

and you should get paid your big money in your prime when you are at your best, not at the end of your career where you are a has been and would just take up salary on a team. I didnt see anyone last year offering Shaq 20 million to play cause he has done so much in his career.

You deserve to get paid whatever a team is willing to pay you. My entire point was that no matter how good you are during the beginning of your career, youre not gonna get that huge money contracts you will get later on in your career when you are a proven veteran. I have no doubt in my mind Lebron will get a gigantic deal at some point in his career but i think the A-Rod comparisons are off based. Like I said, A Rod is considered one of the greatest baseball players to ever play and he has been doing it for over a decade. Lebron hasnt even been in the league for a decade. I dont decide how the pay structure goes in the NBA but I do know that you do not get paid the huge gigantic bucks until after you put in a few years of greatness in the league.

Piercefan34
11-04-2011, 04:20 PM
I have not heard about this before, but as Heat fan, I sure do hope you're right. Think about how many players would be lining up to sign with the Heat after Arison's strong words against the smaller market owners.

you lose all credibility when you start a sentence with "as a heat fan".

blahblahyoutoo
11-04-2011, 04:26 PM
I've never seen labor negotiations be so one sided, and the majority of owners have no plans on budging. They do not have much to lose. They have they're other businesses and interests outside of the NBA, and that's the way they are treating this lockout.

I feel bad for the players at this point because I believe most genuinely just want to play basketball again and get back to work, but I don't blame them for not reaching an agreement to this point. They will be getting screwed for the entire length of the deal.

They've given in to everything, aside from a hard cap, so the owners should make the final move. Let the players keep 51.5%, and stop being so greedy. If you don't want to own an NBA team and take on the normal risks of owning a business, then step aside. There's other people out there with the means and desire to own a team.


boy, you sure are generous, with other people's money.

blahblahyoutoo
11-04-2011, 04:31 PM
That's what the owners signed up for. No one held a gun to their head and said "YOU HAVE TO BUY THIS TEAM OR ELSE!". When they bought their teams they knew the terms of the CBA, if they didn't like everything they shouldn't have bought the team. It's the attitude of "We will make the players give everything back to us to force a profit for our bad bet we bought" that drives me nuts. If small market teams can't make a buck then they shouldn't exist, the fact that they do isn't the players fault it's stemmed from the owners greed at some point for making a -EV decision of starting said franchise.

Do I feel sorry for the NBA players and their financial situations? Of course not. Do I think it's fair that they have to give up everything? Of course not.

no one's forced to do anything.
the owners don't have to agree to anything.
the players union doesn't have to agree to anything.
the owners have earned the right to this negotiation because the old CBA expired.

if the owners don't like the terms, they can close doors to the business.
if the players don't like the terms, they can go somewhere else and try to make a living.

Birdmannn
11-04-2011, 04:44 PM
Lebron is in his second contract. Its not about hating on Lebron. As I stated earlier, he will get paid the $20-30 million eventually as his career winds down. Thats how it works. But to tell me he deserves as much as A Rod makes is silly since A-Rod has been doing it for over a decade and has won championships. Many people consider A Rod to be one of the greatest baseball players of all time. So no, its not about hating on Lebron. Lebron does not have the status as an all time NBA player as A Rod does as an all time MLB player. So no, Lebron does not deserve as much as A Rod. Maybe one day he will, but for now, he gets paid what he can get a franchise to pay him. Kobe never earned $30million/year for his career. Right now, on the last leg of his career, when he is no longer in his prime he is earning $30+million/year. Thats how it works. A Rod did not get a gigantic contract during his first few years in the league.

And as I stated above, NBA players on average make more money than any other professional sports league in this country. That is an absolute fact.

Okay but compared to other sports how many guys play each game?

beliges
11-04-2011, 04:47 PM
Okay but compared to other sports how many guys play each game?

What does that have to do with this situation? On average per player, NBA players make more money than any other professional sport athlete in this country. They also have more rights and the most player-friendly contract structures than any other professional athlete in this country. 50/50 on the BRI is more than fair for the players.

Birdmannn
11-04-2011, 04:53 PM
Well when a team makes a certain amount of money and they only have 15 players or so to pay they should make more on average then lets say a team with a roster of 25+ players.

50/50 WOULD be fair if you started looking at the situation today but considering everything the players are giving up already on the system AND to have to go down 7% is just completely unreasonable!

beliges
11-04-2011, 04:58 PM
Well when a team makes a certain amount of money and they only have 15 players or so to pay they should make more on average then lets say a team with a roster of 25+ players.

50/50 WOULD be fair if you started looking at the situation today but considering everything the players are giving up already on the system AND to have to go down 7% is just completely unreasonable!

Ya but again what does that have anything to do with the situation. It doesnt matter why NBA players make more money on average than any other professional athlete. It just means that NBA players are lucky to be able to play in the NBA where they make more money on average than any other professional athlete.

And the players have no given up anything already. The fact that they make 57% of all BRI already is unreasonable when the players are risking absolutely nothing of their own and the owners put up billions of their own dollars. The owners own the teams and not the players. Therefore, the owners have the right to make the ultimate decisions. Again, if the player doesnt like how the owner is treating him, he is free to look for a new job. This is how it works in this country. If youre not happy with your job, you are free to quit and look for a new job. You can always voice your displeasure and demand a raise and make all kinds of other demands. But, if your bosses chooses not to give into your demands, you are more than free to walk away and get a job to your liking.

Birdmannn
11-04-2011, 05:05 PM
From all your posts I gather you don't understand how the top 15-30 players in league are the only reason there is 4 billion dollars a year to be spread among these owners. There are a lot more people out there with the money to own a team then there are players that can generate enough money to make a team profitable.

beliges
11-04-2011, 05:12 PM
From all your posts I gather you don't understand how the top 15-30 players in league are the only reason there is 4 billion dollars a year to be spread among these owners. There are a lot more people out there with the money to own a team then there are players that can generate enough money to make a team profitable.

From all your posts I gather you dont understand how these players would not be able to make anything close to what they make now without these owners.

Birdmannn
11-04-2011, 05:59 PM
It's already been admitted the top players are severely underpaid. Owners are a lot easier to replace then Bryant, James, Wade , Rose and the other top players, and 10 years ago at least 16 owners agreed with this. Just cause there are some sad owners, with how players have been moving around, they want to take it out of the players paychecks.

beliges
11-04-2011, 08:03 PM
It's already been admitted the top players are severely underpaid. Owners are a lot easier to replace then Bryant, James, Wade , Rose and the other top players, and 10 years ago at least 16 owners agreed with this. Just cause there are some sad owners, with how players have been moving around, they want to take it out of the players paychecks.

The top 3% of the league which includes Kobe, LBJ, Wade, Dwight, CP3, Melo and Rose would not be affected much if the NBA didnt exist. Basically what that means is that they would probably still be household names playing for some league and making the big bucks. However, for the remaining 97% of the league, those players that are not international elite superstars, they would be jobless or making next to nothing playing ball on some second tier league or some international league. The players as a whole need the owners more than the owners need the players because if it wasnt for the owners pumping in all the money, there would be no endorsement deals, no televised games, not popularity and no fan base. And lets get one thing straight, its not the players' paychecks as you would like to call it. This is the owners' money the players are getting. The players already get their money through the contracts they sign, how is it fair for them to also get the majority of the profits the owners make? Its not gonna be a surprise that the players are gonna give in and sign a 50/50 deal to finally end this. The owners will not give in because well, its their own money thats on the line. The players will eventually give in because they want their paychecks and they have nothing invested in the league as far as capital is concerned.

TO Rapz
11-04-2011, 08:27 PM
Was that Matt Bonner :laugh2:

magichatnumber9
11-04-2011, 09:00 PM
I say we just get rid of small market teams like Cleveland and call it a day. The league is watered down anyway

Slug3
11-04-2011, 09:39 PM
From all your posts I gather you dont understand how these players would not be able to make anything close to what they make now without these owners.

Some of the players would easily be able to go to another league. some even getting millions to play. Its not like the NBA is the only thing out there. And if the smaller players cant get an offer in the other leagues then maybe they shouldn't be in the NBA.